Convert (Conversations)

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"conversion" |"conversions" |"convert" |"converted" |"converting" |"converts"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: This is the fourth act, first scene.

Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth act, first scene.

Hayagrīva: Meets Rāmānanda Rāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Shall I speak?

Hayagrīva: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: So after converting Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu started for His South Indian tour. In South Indian tour, before meeting Rāmānanda Rāya, He visited a very nice temple which is called Vijaya Nṛsiṁha. Shall I...? Shall you give that scene? That is very nice temple. Huh?

Hayagrīva: Yes. Go ahead.

Prabhupāda: Then the first scene will be the visit of Vijaya Nṛsiṁha Garh temple.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was at Benares. He was a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Śaṅkara sampradāya. So he used to... This scene should be given that at Benares He was also walking all over the streets and roads, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa" and thousands and thousands men were following Him. This news arrived to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī who was the chief sannyāsī there and some of the devotees told, "Oh, a very nice sannyāsī has come to Benares. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī deprecated, "Oh! This is a nonsense! Why a sannyāsī should chant and dance? He should concentrate his mind in studying Vedānta. He is a fool." In this way Caitanya Mahāprabhu was criticized. So one Maharastrian brāhmaṇa, he was devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "This incident gave us much pain, sir. If You kindly meet this sannyāsī and talk with him about Vedānta-sūtra, that would be a nice thing." In the meantime one brāhmaṇa came and invited Lord Caitanya that "I have invited all the sannyāsīns of Benares, but I know You do not meet these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, but still I have come to invite You. You kindly accept my invitation." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw this opportunity of meeting Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He accepted his invitation, and there was a meeting, and there was discussion of Vedānta-sūtra with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, and He converted him to be a Vaisnava. That is another incident.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: I have come here for the last ten days only. And at least two or three is already converted (in) Seattle. Yes. I want to see the youngsters in your country to be happy. Everyone wants that, but not only in your country, I want to see everywhere. Because that is the duty of every human being, to give information of highest happiness. That is the duty of every human being. The animal propensity is to exploit others. And human propensity should be to do good to others. That is the difference between animal propensity and human propensity. So here is a nice thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should you not distribute? Especially in your country where there is great need for it? They are not after economic development. They have seen much of economic development. Now it is time for them to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and they will be happy. That is my mission.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Oh. (chuckles) You are converting your mother to this cult.

Yamunā: A very nice mother she has.

Prabhupāda: Unless mother is good, how the children are good?

Yamunā: Tora(?). Tora is one of the biggest, and he helped more than anybody. He would come home, and she would read to them from the Bhāgavatam. But he would tell her, "Oh, if you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, you must serve māyā." And he would say, "That's māyā." He would tell mother that at seven years old, and he would explain to her. Swamiji, by the end of our classes, he was actually understanding the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, being able to listen to it and ask questions about it.

Prabhupāda: He gave you questions?

Mālatī: Even at the temple when there would be lectures, and then the lecturer says, "Are there any questions?" Tora would raise his hand, and he'd ask very intelligent questions.

Prabhupāda: Then why not keep him with me, your mother and he? (devotees cheer)

Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho! Haribol!

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: I think that is described in the first part of our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That story is there, how he convert, how he became Nārada. (break)

Mālatī: Twice a month he would visit his father. His father is a demon. So Tore carries in his pocket one nice picture of Swamiji and one nice... On the back is written, tava kara kamala vare. And he sits and says that under his breath because if his father heard, his father gets mad.

Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free."

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Doesn't seem like very many converts in that amount of time. How many followers other... (sneezes) Pardon me please.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Journalist: How many followers are there then, within...? Just a hundred?

Prabhupāda: Little more than hundred.

Hayagrīva: These are initiates who are strictly following. Of course, there are more and more people come to the temples. More people join us.

Journalist: How many temples are there?

Prabhupāda: We have got thirteen temples. Thirteen. One in this Los Angeles, one San Francisco, one in New York, one Santa Fe, one Buffalo, one Boston, one Montreal, one Vancouver, and Seattle, Columbus, and then London, Hamburg, in this way... Hawaii.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Prabhupāda: So they are our best candidates. So you can advertise that "We are not hippies, but we are converting many hippies to the sane condition of life." That's a fact. They are searching after something better, but they have no leader.

Miss Rose: Yes, that's true. That's it.

Prabhupāda: They have no leader. Now, if they come to us seriously, they get the right thing. But that is also their defect. When we propose, "Come and take this Kṛṣṇa," they don't want. They want that marijuana.

Candanācārya: Prabhupāda, my mother had the idea of going to rich parents who are very anxious about their children who've become hippies and saying that this movement...

Prabhupāda: So you should write article that "We are not hippies, but we are converting hippies to the sane condition. So father, mothers, who are anxious for their children, let them send their children to us. We take care." In this way you make impression in the public mind.

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So that we cannot cancel: "These hippies are not admitted." No. We admit everyone. We cannot say that "Such and such person cannot enter into our temple." We cannot say. Everyone is welcome. Everyone is welcome. And, if they do not come, how they'll converted?

Miss Rose: I think that the confusion is...

Prabhupāda: We cannot say, just like, in some hotels, that "Such and such persons are not admitted." No. We cannot. We admit everyone. Our mission is to elevate persons from down state of life to the highest state of life. So everyone is in down state. Lord Jesus Christ also said that "You do not hate the sinners, but hate sin." Is not that, Lord Jesus Christ said? So hippies may be sinners. We raise them to the pious life. But we say, "Don't do this. Don't do this sinful act. Don't take intoxication. Don't do this. Don't do this." We hate sin, not the sinners. Actually. If we hate sinners, then where is the possibility of preaching?

Miss Rose: If the hippies would come, come, come...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He became a devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means he was not converted, but he became very admirer of Caitanya and he ordered that "Caitanya can perform saṅkīrtana anywhere. Nobody shall check." So that order is still being carried out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can do this in the dark with candles. Men playing drums, some people holding candles, marching to his house.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it will look very...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe... Can we show him after Lord Caitanya (and) he talk, they both come out and everyone has kīrtana or is this not correct?

Prabhupāda: No, you can do that. Kīrtana, that's all right.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The first scene should be that Nityānanda Prabhu and Haridāsa Ṭhākura. They were ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to go every day to, from one neighborhood to another and preach. So one day when they came out they saw at a distant place a crowd. So you have to make scene that a crowded place and these two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi, they have pickpocketed somebody and... Because they were debauches, so there was some howling and crowds. Yes. So Nityānanda Prabhu inquired, and people said that "These two brothers, they're born of a very respectable family, but they have now become debauches." So Nityānanda Prabhu, "Oh, they are so fallen? So best thing is to convert them first. Then Lord Caitanya's name will be glorious that He has delivered such rascals." So He went there to save. Then he said, "Who are you?" As soon as they came in, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, chanting, and these brothers said, "Oh, who are you?" "Oh, we are Nityānanda, and he is Haridāsa. We are preaching. You also join with us." So, "Oh get out! Hare Kṛṣṇa, your damn Hare Kṛṣṇa.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Haṁsadūta: "Patel Pola(?) of Chicago had observed that he was a construction worker doing a śūdra's work. It would not become necessary to allot the three lower castes to the foreign converts according to their professions. This will not be an easy task. Talking of profession reminds me of a still graver problem—that of the occupation or profession of the white sādhus. If I am not mistaken, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement would turn out legions of new white sādhus in the West whose only aim in life would be to propitiate their Lord Kṛṣṇa. They would be steeped in the bhakti-rasa and would not soil their hands with doing any work for such a mundane thing as earning a living."

Prabhupāda: They are not doing anything. Actually they are not doing anything. They are preaching only.

Guest (1) (Indian man): No, but he says that legions of sādhus, such white men, persons from West, become sādhus, then who will do this job of earning a living?

Prabhupāda: Why he is crying? If he is hungry, let him come here. We shall provide him. Why he is crying for that? What business he has got to cry, "What will they do?" What they will, that they know. Why he is crying? What is his business for crying for this future? If he is hungry, let him come and we shall provide him. This is not... That is a childish conception. "If everybody becomes sādhu, then what will be the nature of the society?" That is, never becomes. That never becomes. To become sādhu and to become a Vaiṣṇava is not so easy thing.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Because we are... Any orthodox Hindu may come, but we have got our weapons, Vedic evidences. So nobody has come. But even Christian priest... Even Christian priests in America, they love me. They say that "These boys..., our boys... They are Americans. They are Christians. They are Jews. And these boys are so much after God, and we could not deliver them?" They're admitting. Their fathers, their parents, come to me. They also flatly offer their obeisances and say, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come. You are teaching God consciousness." So on the contrary, I have got reception from other countries. And India also, as you inquired of India, all other sects, they're admitting that before me many hundreds of swamis went there, but they could not convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness a single person. They are admiring that. And so far I am concerned, I don't take any credit, but I am confident that because I am presenting the Vedic knowledge as it is, without any adulteration, it is being effective. That is my contribution. Just like if you have got a right medicine and if you administer to a patient, you must be sure that he'll cure.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: So you don't try to convert people from other religions.

Prabhupāda: No.

Sister Mary: One can be Christian and...

Prabhupāda: Anyway. We are teaching how to love God. That's all.

Sister Mary: Yes. So we're doing the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the test is there, whether he has become a lover of God or lover of dog. That is the test. If you find that he has become a lover of dog, then his religion is useless.

Sister Mary: How does he know?

Prabhupāda: You can see whether he's loving God or dog. That's all. That you can see. Everyone can see, whether he has got good love for dog or good love for God. That you can see. Anyone can see. The test is there. Crucial test is there.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: You can take instruction from the students who are actually trying to understand God.

Journalist (2): I read somewhere that possibly you wanted to convert people who were politicians and businessmen. Why?

Prabhupāda: Who said? Where you have got this idea that I am trying to convert politicians? Where?

Journalist (2): In a newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Where is that newspaper? This is not a fact. You are telling something which is not a fact.

Journalist (2): You want to convert everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone requires to understand God. Why politicians and newspapermen? Everyone. God is for everyone. Everyone requires... The human life is meant for understanding God. Why politicians and businessmen? Without knowing God, he cannot be happy, whatever he may be.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: You cannot (indistinct). God is the spirit and you are spirit. Therefore you have to take lessons from God. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated there mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke (BG 15.7), that these living entities they are My part and parcels. So, because part and parcel of God, therefore the part and parcel must be active on account of God. That is real life. Why stop activity? That is real life.

Dr. Weir: I fear Swami, if I may say so, without disrespect, that in some ways you're preaching to the converted and you only make it more muddled to me by giving analogies, don't you feel that at times?

Mensa Member: Yeah, I think the Swami's used to, probably used to talking to people that need this...

Prabhupāda: When there is a truth spoken by God that living entities are My part and parcel, mamaiva. Why shall I not give the analogy? How do part and parcel acts? I must give analogy. Otherwise how they can understand?

Dr. Weir: It's like some people...

Prabhupāda: For understanding analogy must be there. Analogy is created for understanding.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost. The Vedic culture was lost. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Vedic culture was kept intact. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, while he was going on tour of the Western countries, he saw one black man was trying to kill one cow. He immediately took his sword, ""Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" So that culture we have lost. Immediately he began, "With this sword I shall kill you."

So king should give protection to all living entities. That is king's duty, state's duty. Everyone should have living right. Why the animals should be killed? They are also prajā. Is it not duty of the king to give protection? And that was being done up to the Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Therefore, there was one kingdom. When they deteriorated, gradually part, part, part. Just like what is this Pakistan problem? These Pakistani Muhammadans, they do not come from Muhammadan country. They are our men, Hindus converted. But we could not keep the culture.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: ...of converting the people to Sri Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Consciousness.

Guest: ...to worship of Sri Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: ...I wonder whether you will place more importance, I ask my friend, Mr.,...uh...

Prabhupāda: Girirāja.

Guest: ...Girirāja, whether it is the Gītā that you may stress on or the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Gītā is the preliminary study of Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: So he became immediately converted to a saintly person. "I must go and meditate and realize myself. Why shall I become old?" (break) I accept a new opportunities to preach it from everything. That is my philosophy. And it has become successful. If I had taken this position from India... I was trying. In India also, I tried. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are very respectable man, and people like you. You preach Bhagavad-gītā. You stand with your photograph. There is Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you preach Bhagavad-gītā? Now politics is finished. You have got independence." But this politics is so sweet to these politicians, that until he was killed, he could not give up politics, until he was killed. He was advocating non-violence, but he was forced to die by violence. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. He was forced to accept partition of India. He was so much baffled, but still, he would not give up politics until he was killed. On the day of his death, in the morning, because he had so many letters, so many secretaries, so he said, "I am very much useless. I want to die." He said like that. And actually, in the evening he was killed.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system. You attend the lectures of a professor because he has heard. He has listened the same instruction from his professor. You don't go to a professor who has never gone to school and college. Do you go there? So this knowledge... As material knowledge is received by paramparā, similarly, spiritual knowledge is received also by paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). By paramparā system. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "Because the paramparā was lost, therefore the science was lost. Therefore I shall again say the same system to you." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am trying to speak to you because you are My devotee. You are very dear friend." So similarly, one has to become a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa and devotee of Kṛṣṇa before he can understand what Kṛṣṇa says. You see? There are so many Bhagavad-gītā editions in all the countries. So many big, big scholars presented Bhagavad-gītā. There was not a single person converted to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Do you agree to this point? Before this movement not a single person... Now there hundreds and thousands are coming because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is, not with adulteration.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: So it is a happy meeting?

Guest (6): Yes, Mahārāja is converting (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Please come tomorrow. (Hindi) What time you have given them, any time?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. The ceremony is in the morning but if they can't make it, all day long we'll be distributing prasādam. Come and see the Deities.

Prabhupāda: Yes, any time you can convince him to come. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi)

Guest (6): Thank you.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Same thing when they discovered atomic bomb, they did not know what's going to happen. This Einstein proposed the equation that a small mass can be converted to a tremendous amount of energy, like his equation that energy is equal to the mass times the square of the velocity of light. So he from his theory found that this is happening, this is a physical law. So if we have a small amount of mass, and if we subject to this equation, then there will be a tremendous amount of energy. But later on it happened that they used the knowledge in the wrong direction. So many people got killed. And at the moment, the so-called genetic engineering...

Prabhupāda: That also they do not understand properly, because they do not see the spiritual energy. Just like we know that within this body there is a small bit of spiritual energy, spark, which is ten thousand part of the tip of the hair. How small it is. But due to its presence within the body, the body is working so nicely. We know that, that how a small particle of spiritual energy can work so wonderfully. They do not know it.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Our process: Kṛṣṇa says that He is the Supreme, we accept. Not blindly—because other ācāryas, they also accept. Now some rascal is taking advantage of that statement, "If Kṛṣṇa can say, 'I am the Supreme, I am God,' so I can also say." Māyāvādī philosophy. (break) Swamis could not do anything, he was (indistinct). There are so many. Vivekananda went in 1893, three years before my birth, and what he has done?

Indian man: He returned converted.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man: He returned converted. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Instead of converting, he became converted.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (1): The Christians here, get money from America. In Bali, where there's many Hindus live, they convert many people by saying, "If you become a Christian, you'll have good economy with us."

Prabhupāda: And that is the Christian propaganda.

Devotee (1): Same in Madras.

Prabhupāda: In India, everywhere. They cannot attract people by their philosophy. It is show money, "Yes, come on, take money." (pause) Hong Kong also. (break) Very, many meat shops. Rather this vegetable,...

Devotee (1): It's expensive.

Morning Walk -- April 27, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is conservation of energy. Pūrṇam idam, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The understanding in science is that if I burn a piece of wood, that wood contains originally cellulose. So it has certain amount carbons, and a certain amount hydrogens. So if I burn it, that carbon will be converted to smaller molecules like carbon dioxide and water. So if I balance it, starting from the original cellulose, so I'll get a certain number of carbon atoms and hydrogens. So the matter is conserved. In other words, it is not lost. That is the understanding of the science.

Prabhupāda: No, we also, we also say. The energy, we take the sum total, material energy, that is conserved. It is displayed again. When there is annihilation, the whole energy goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Yānti māmikām, prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikām.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see. So that is her stock. Strī-dhana. The husband cannot touch. Then it is criminal. So in case of need, she can convert the ornaments into money. Sometimes there is disagreement with the husband. So she has got some stock. The father gives some ornaments. The father-in-law gives some ornament. The relatives also, during marriage, they present some ornaments. So if he, if she gets hundred tolās of gold, that means at least five hundred...?

Karandhara: Almost five thousand.

Prabhupāda: Oh, five thousand dollars. She has got some assets. That is called strī-dhana. Strī-dhana means "woman's property." Nobody can touch it. Only, according to Manu-saṁhitā law, strī-dhana... Now they are changing. Strī-dhana, the son cannot touch, the husband cannot touch. Nobody can touch. But, after her death, the daughters will share that money. Because formerly, the daughters could not get share of the father's estate. Only the dowry which is given by the father at the time of her marriage. That much. But she could not claim any estate share.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When the waves bring the food, so immediately they capture. So there is no scarcity of food, even for the small birds. And we are in scarcity. The scientist is manufacturing tablet.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're going to convert the wood, the big woods to food also, by treating with the enzymes. That is one of the...

Prabhupāda: Programs.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The wood that grows big, big trees, they say, in a few years, then these will be converted to food by treating with enzymes.

Prabhupāda: That means there will be no food, natural food. That is stated in Bhāgavata. You don't, you'll not get these grains, sugar, milk. This will be stopped. You have to eat woods. Yes. By your advancement of civilization, you have to eat woods.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So matter can be converted to spirit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like expert electrician, the same energy, electric, converting into heat, converting into refrigerator. The energy is the same. Both places the electricity is working, but by his expert management, one is heater, one is cooler. But heat and cool completely different, just opposite. That is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Ah. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. Both matter and spirit, they are energy of the Supreme. So the energy or the energetic—non-different. But by His arrangement, one is working as superior, one is working as inferior. The same example, that the same electric energy is acting as cooler and acting as heater. But the energy is the same. Similarly, originally the energy is God's energy. So God's energy and God, there is no difference. But by his manipulation one is working as material energy, another is working... This is difference. Therefore originally it comes all spiritual energy, life. Therefore we have to take everything from life, not from the dead. Same example: The finger is first coming, life, and then the nail is coming, matter. Not that first of all nail is coming. You can study. This is meditation.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the res... Formerly, in our childhood we saw that any gentleman coming here in London and goes back to India, he no more mixes with the Indian soil. He... They were called "England-returned." So they made their own society. Then our Ram Mohan Raya, he formed a Brahmo Society. And so many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture. But in the western countries, if they accept this Vedic process of civilization, then they will again take it.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Best service.

Cardinal Danielou: It is the necessity of internal conversion, yes, for human, human souls to return to God. But do you think that this, the personality of human soul is a personality permanent? That is, we remain always distinct, not separate from God, but distinct of God?

Prabhupāda: Distinct.

Cardinal Danielou: Distinct of God. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like you are distinct from me, I am distinct from you.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Like that.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conversion, we have got seven mothers. Ātma-mātā, the original mother, guroḥ patnī, wife of the master, spiritual master...

Cardinal Danielou: Yes.

Bhagavān: Can you understand?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī, the wife of the priest.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou:

Prabhupāda: Rāja-patnikā, the wife of king, the queen.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But aim is that his life, everyone's life is meant for spiritual realization. So to, in order to achieve this end of life he must be kept in peaceful condition of life.

Yogeśvara: He asks: "In order to achieve these goals is it our intention to do like the Christians and make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side. Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I may not have sufficient strength. I can... If I can convert a dozen of people, that is my success.

Reporter: I think, I think...

Prabhupāda: And if you want to know our socialistic idea, I can give you.

Reporter: Yeah. Because I thought you know, it was just an idea of your... But I shall never think it was so, so much clear.

Yogeśvara: He never thought that our program was quite so detailed.

Prabhupāda: It is most scientific program.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Guest (1): I have been seeking all my life, and I expect when I was about twenty-two I became a convert from Judaism to the Christian Church. And of recent years, as a result of a very serious illness, a heart attack, I began to get other experiences which took me right away from all this knowledge, but no wisdom. I gathered a lot of knowledge, to the extent that I was, well, I was getting nowhere. I knew all about God, but didn't know what He, who He was. I knew all about Him though. Then I was led to understand a lot of other things which did not come by reading. I couldn't tell you. They just came. Thoughts, from wherever they were, they came. So I am now currently at the stage where I acknowledge that the certainty of this world isn't worth knowing about.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): We've got to live here of course. It seems to me almost daily that the next processes in life are the much more interesting and exciting ones. But when I hear you speak of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, I know nothing about these people. So now where do I start?

Prabhupāda: You have to start from Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (1): That's this one.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, we have to understand what is that force which is moving this body. Then we come to the spiritual platform. As you understand, the nature of the soul, that is very elaborately explained in different way, negative, positive way, what is the soul. This morning, every morning I speak on this Bhagavad-gītā, if you find time you can come. At quarter past seven, I'm beginning, for one hour.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: But do you think for instance, in this country, if somebody is a Protestant, or I mean a Christian and goes to church, this is also, you don't try to convert them away from that?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have no such process (indistinct).

Prof. Gombrich: Because your movement is extremely distinctive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't try to convert. Just like one gentlemen was asking, "Why these ladies, girls, they are putting Indian sari?" I never said that "You do that." But they're doing out of their own accord. So I never canvassed to become a Hindu, or like that, no. Our propaganda is, "Just become God conscious." (end)

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You must know that they are all rascals. That I said, rascals, unbelievers. You have to convert them to be sane man. That is preaching.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. What do you expect that every man will immediately go and he'll agree with you? Why do you expect like that? That is foolishness.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: You must know that everybody will disagree with you, and it is your preaching work that you will make him agree with you. That is your preaching work.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This idea also. Now there should be examination whether so-called brāhmaṇas, they are actually following the brāhmaṇa regulative principle and chanting the mantra regularly. Otherwise they should be converted again śūdra. If we become safe simply by having a thread and do not do properly, then what is this? This should be examined. Every individual should be asked, "Now chant this Gāyatrī-mantra." He must. Are they doing properly?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. Otherwise, simply by name, so-called sacred thread holder will not do. Then again the same brahminical class as in India. (break) ...Paraśurāma. You know Paraśurāma?

Karandhara: The incarnation?

Prabhupāda: Ah. Because the kṣatriyas were not doing exactly, he twenty-one times massacred them. Finish! And those who, kṣatriyas, fled from India, they came to Europe. So the European means they are coming from the kṣatriya descendant, but they have forgotten their own culture. Indo-aryan. (break) ...strong, then there is no doubt he will be able to control all over the world. That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Guest (1): Yes, that is Candrakant. In Calcutta, no?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Yes, there is also my student. (break) Now the government is so irresponsible. Just like in Nairobi, I was refused permission. You see. We spent so much money, and they did not inform before. And when I was on the airport... That also, no written order. They said, "From higher authorities it is the order that you cannot enter." Just see. Kenya. So at the present moment we have got many enemies of this movement. (Hindi) "You are converting these European and American into brāhmaṇa. How they can become brāhmaṇa without taking birth as brāhmaṇa?" (Hindi)

Guest (1): You have done quite a lot. (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here also they go to parties. Where they go here?

Jayatīrtha: To downtown Los Angeles and Hollywood.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Another rascal you told.

Guest (1): Yes. Correct, correct.

Dr. Patel: Condemn. (break) ...convert these rascals:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Nothing to do and no, no... (break) ...prāṇa, dharma...

Prabhupāda: He's no longer existing.

Dr. Patel: Government is not existing even by (indistinct). No, not by... (break) There is no...

Prabhupāda: They chant very (indistinct) Yes. Father, mother is sophisticated. (sound of children talking in Gujarati) Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Children: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everywhere (indistinct) but their father will not say. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) We shall wait. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: Pious people, they see that actually they are not giving any spiritual benefit by converting them into Christianity. So they are very against this. They want some original Vedic school, Gurukula schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is, we have done already. Satsvarūpa has got practical experience. He can give you advice. He started this Gurukula. Practically this Gurukula I suggested, but he began. Yes. So you can take practical advice from him.

Mahāṁsa: I don't think we can start building until we finish this temple.

Prabhupāda: No, you can start in a cottage.

Mahāṁsa: Yes, small way.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Eṣām, "of these rascals and fools," matiḥ, "consciousness," cannot be turned. Naiṣāṁ urukramāṅghrim, "towards the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Urukrama." Urukrama means "one who acts very wonderful." And his lotus feet. So naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim: "Their attention cannot be converted or turned towards the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa who acts very wonderfully." Anartha apagamaḥ: "And all these misconcepts of life becomes vanquished." How it can be? Now, "So long one does not touch his head to the dust of a devotee of the Lord who is niṣkiñcana, who has nothing to do with this material world, that devotee, who is simply interested in Kṛṣṇa." If one has got the opportunity of touching his head to the lotus feet, to the dust of the lotus feet of such a great devotee, then it is possible. Otherwise, it is not. Niṣkiñcana, mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. Mahīyasām, such glorified devotee, the dust of the lotus feet, can help him, that's all.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Na hanyate, does not die, hanyamāne śarīre, apparently, the body being dead, the soul is never dead. (French)

Yogeśvara: So... Shall I explain that one? What the good Pastor—are they called Pastor?—describes is that in order for there to be a dialogue, we have to respect each others' positions, not that we will try to convert the other. He says just as we respect you have an absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also there must be respect that the Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death...

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think I have better respect than him to Jesus Christ. I say he does not die. He says he dies. (French) So far respect is concerned, I have more respect than them. They want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Vedavyāsa: We are speaking of the gradual process of self-realization, first adopting these brahminical qualities and going further and further. So he asks if he's missing, if it's not possible to become illuminated at once by God's grace, to become converted without undergoing these...

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will do. Yes, you haven't got to undergo this or that. Simply chant and it will..., you'll become perfect. So easiest. But still they will not accept. That is the difficulty. When you give the easiest way they won't accept. Easiest way is we are recommending the chant the holy name of God. Do it. (German) Not that you chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. You have got your name of God, you chant that. Begin that. (German) (break) Then how can I help you? There is (indistinct). You do not know. So our recommendation is, not my recommendation, from the Vedic literature, authoritative recommendation and the Bhagavad-gītā, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Everything is there. You begin. Therefore I said in this age so many things is impossible to be done. But you begin chanting the holy name of God.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Yes, gradually everything will be barren. At the end of annihilation everything will be barren and by scorching the sunlight will be twelve times higher. So everything will be barren and burned into ashes.

Devotee: Hiraṇyākṣa was taking the gold from the earth. Now they are taking the oil. So the weight, the oil makes weight in some parts of the globe, no? So when they take it and they put it some place else or they convert it in the earth, the earth is losing weights in some parts. That is no going to cause...

Prabhupāda: I think I have explained this. Instead of contemplating what will happen to this world, you have got a short duration of life, say fifty, sixty years. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't consider what will happen to this world. The nature will take care of it. You don't puzzle your brain with these thoughts. You utilize whatever time you have got in your possession and go back to home, back to Godhead. (break) You cannot check it. Best thing is that you mold your life and go back to home, back to Godhead. "Oil in your own machine." Instead of thinking what will happen... They will happen. Because people will go on with their rascal civilization, natural consequences will be there. You better take advantage of whatever time you have got and become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and go back to home.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Devotee: The mass will follow. Some other times I've heard you say, like the other day, that the masses of people... When Balavanta Prabhu was running for office you were saying that it'd be very difficult to get our present-day leaders to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'd just like to try to understand further, whether it is the masses or the leaders?

Prabhupāda: No, we are dealing generally with the masses. But if we can convert one leader, then it is equal to turning many people in the mass. That is the idea. Some way or other, we are doing Kṛṣṇa's service. Either you serve the mass or the leader, it doesn't matter. Your service is recognized.

Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees question, if they were pure, then they could get everyone to take a big book. It's simply our fault that we're not pure enough that we can't get everyone to take a big book. Or is it just that we can't engage everyone, we can't get everyone to surrender completely?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is also a devotional attitude. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "I do not love Kṛṣṇa. So that's... And if I would have loved, then I would have died without His presence. But I am living now. Therefore I have no love for Kṛṣṇa." This is another thing. One who is too much addicted to the service of Kṛṣṇa, that is very good sign. So your headquarter is now Pittsburg?

Tripurāri: No, now Philadelphia.

Meeting with GBC -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...He was converting all his sons to be sannyāsīs. So he cursed him that: "You cannot stay anywhere more than three minutes." That's it.

Brāhmaṇana: Prabhupāda, you also show that example.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: You're also showing that example.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Although there is no restriction, still I do not stay more than three weeks even.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Bhagavān: In Bombay, even those poor fisherwomen...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are offering respects. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to create divine because the world is full of devils.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have to be divine ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Unless you become divine, how you can convert others to divine? If you are devil, you will convert others to become devil, that's all. (break) ...most beautiful.

Nalinī-kānta:. Presided over by Aryama, the planet of trees.

Prabhupāda: Planet... not planet. Amongst the trees. So who will prepare nice foodstuff for the governor?

Guest (1): Yes, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, very nice prasāda.

Prabhupāda: Who is preparing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've given the list to the chief cook.

Guest (1): My wife is there and then Pālikā, Devaśakti, your sister. Everybody is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it very nicely. Now it will be examined who can cook very nice. If they say, "Oh, it is very nice," then good certificate.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You can convert. It is not difficulty. How the Rūpa Gosvāmī was converted? Because the expert man... That person was Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if you become expert, you can convert. How this governor was coming, how these politicians were coming?

Paramahaṁsa: Because you're the expert.

Prabhupāda: It is not just we. You have to become expert to convert another expert. If you are not experienced, how you can convert others?

Paramahaṁsa: Is it true that you will end up converting people according to your own..., in other words, you convert people of your own caliber?

Prabhupāda: Not own caliber, any caliber. That requires expert management.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Did you follow? So the only remedy is that you should perform yajña. And this yajña is, in this age, yajña, performance of yajña, is very costly affair. At the present moment, things are not available. So you should perform yajña. If you don't perform yajña, then nature will restrict supply and put so many impediments. That yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ... (BG 3.14). If you regularly perform yajña, then there will be sufficient rainfall. There is sufficient water. Just like all around there is water. There is no scarcity of water. But you cannot touch it without God's intervention. The same water will be converted into cloud and will be distributed on the land, and the water again glide down to the reservoir of water. This is nature's way. But if you do not perform yajña, this machine will not work to get water from the sea, convert into cloud, and then distribute. This will be restricted.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Hari-śauri: It seems to be very difficult if they are not very serious about anything...

Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good. They are not understanding; still, you have to go. Then Kṛṣṇa will take that "He is laboring so hard for My sake." Never mind he is successful. It doesn't matter. But you are working hard for Kṛṣṇa. That is noted down. So our business is to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Whether one man is converted or not converted, that is not our business. We shall try our best. But Kṛṣṇa must see that I am giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is wanted. Not that you have to judge that you have approached so many men; nobody became Kṛṣṇa conscious.

That doesn't matter. But you have gone there. You have endeavored your sincere effort. That is recognized by Kṛṣṇa. That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Whomever you meet, you give him, you inform him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said that "You see that he has actually become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Never says. You simply say and go and say. That is your business. It is not that you have to see that he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is not so easy to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is not so easy. It will take, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births. But you have to do your duty. Go and preach. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Your duty is finished. Of course, you will try to convert him. If he is not converted, that is not deviation of your duty. You have to simply go and speak. Just like when I came to your country, I never expected any success because I knew, "As soon as I will say, 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating,' they will reject me immediately."

(laughter) So I was not hopeful at all.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: If you can convince the society to change, then the public servants will change.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in the society, we are inviting everyone, they are coming. They are coming. Gradually they are becoming converted to this.

Director: When will you be coming back to Melbourne?

Prabhupāda: Next January.

Director: Come again this often...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I am going, but I only hopeful on these young boys. They will do. Take the whole plate. Take the whole plate, it is fruit, it is very nice. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). This is meant for human being, the fruits. The tigers will not eat the fruits. The tiger, canine teeth, they will not like. We have got different teeth for eating fruit.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So we have got food grains, we have got fruits, we have got milk. By combination of milk and food grains we can prepare so many nice palatable, full of vitamins. Why we should kill the animal? Let the animal live and take it's milk and prepare nice food, full of vitamins. Milk is nothing conversion of blood. So why do you take the blood by killing? Take the blood in a different form, milk. This is our program. Let the animal live peacefully, and if you are meat-eaters, let the animal die and you eat. There will be no charge for it. The meat-eaters, let us keep some animal, take milk, and when it dies naturally, you call the meat-eater, "Please take this." You take the skin free, you take the bones free, you eat meat. Just wait for the death. It will die after all. That much concession I want. But let the animal live without any fear of being killed so it will supply more milk. Suppose if you know that I am keeping you here for killing. Will you be very happy?

Your mind will be always disturbed. We cannot get good service from you. So animal also understands that "They are going to kill us." Therefore you don't get sufficient milk. But when they are assured that they will not be killed, they will give double milk. They do not know the psychology. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Guest (1): I know. You're brotherhood of man. But just my own curiosity... Of course, you have converts of all...

Prabhupāda: No convert. Actually we are. Just like you have got this different dress from me. That does not mean you are convert to the dress. You are a gentleman; I am a gentleman. That's all.

Guest (1): I don't know whether I'm a gentleman or not. I'm just a man, and pretty lowly as far as my own opinion's concerned.

Prabhupāda: So different dress does not mean converts. We are in different dress, American body or Indian body or this body, black body or... This is body. But we are within the body.

Guest (1): What is the symbol of the staff here? There's a symbol of that, is there?

Prabhupāda: That is a big thing to be understood. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: I said, "Why not?" I asked the question. I said, "Why not? What is wrong with them? What do you feel?" "But that's not in America. You know, we don't go and dance everywhere." I said, "You go in ballroom dances and you dance all the time. You drink and you dance, and you do what you want to do. And they just, in their own life, feel that they enjoy dancing right for God and the world. You dance for your own social contact. They dance for their own divine contact. What is wrong with them? Their leader, their prophet, their spiritual guide danced to God, and they dance to God. Why you think, why you go to the church?" "We go to pray." I said, "That's their prayer. Why don't you understand the prayer aspect of it? Why you want to understand how they dress, how they like, how they dislike each other?" And the second question somebody asked me, "But do you think somebody has the right to convert our children?" I said, "But do you think somebody has not the right..."

Prabhupāda: I never asked them to be converted.

Yogi Bhajan: Well, I understand that. My situation is sometimes people ask you a question about me. They think I am another religion, they can ask question of me.

Prabhupāda: ...Dr. Judah has written. Where is that book? That Dr. Judah's book?

Ambarīṣa: We took it to court, and I think (indistinct name)) has it.

Prabhupāda: One professor, Dr., what is his name?

Paramahaṁsa: Stillson.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So kindly write one book, at least small book, supporting this movement. That will be great service. Actually this should be supported by all sane men, it is so nice. And practically, you see, Dr. Judah has admitted that "You have converted drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and servant of humanity." That he has written, that who likes us.

Dr. Gerson: I think the data that I am collecting will support that and show it in terms that other people in psychology and medicine will be able to read.

Prabhupāda: If you read Dr. Judah's book...

Dr. Gerson: I have it, yes.

Prabhupāda: ...you will get many information. He has very scholarly presented. He has made references from so many books.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So convert him also to be a devotee. Then that is another PhD.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, yes. He said he would love to come and teach at our college.

Prabhupāda: Very good. But he must give up his bad habits, illicit sex, meat-eating. At least they must give up.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He is giving them up. He says that he is becoming more sensitive.

Prabhupāda: If he chants, then he is purified.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He realizes this. All his psychologist friends, they are just crazy. They are not solving any problem.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. (end

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will be rectified.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, that's a best thing. Bhagavān hopes eventually to convert them. Anyway, it's a very beautiful place. Especially this time of year, it's very beautiful.

Prabhupāda: How long it takes to go there from Paris?

Jayatīrtha: About two and a half hours.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Two and a half hours? And what is the nearest town?

Jayatīrtha: It's near Lyons, Orleans, Orleans.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How far it is from our palace?

Jayatīrtha: About half an hour, I think. It is between several big towns. And it's very centrally located for saṅkīrtana all over France.

Prabhupāda: Oh, we can go here and there.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Devotee: "They'll convert the whole neighborhood."

Dharmādhyakṣa: "They're trying to subvert and infiltrate our philosophy into their neighborhood."

Prabhupāda: So they are coming to know what we are. (laughter)

Woman: (in distance) Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That "I am simply amazed how you have converted drug-addicted hippies to become servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." That is his puzzling. But the method is so nice that it automatically becomes. Therefore we are stressing on the method.

Dharmādhyakṣa: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, without practice of the method, it's very difficult to understand the philosophical concepts.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Therefore it is said that without becoming a brāhmaṇa, nobody should touch Vedas.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies. And if you say that "If you act like cats and dogs, you will become dog next life," they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" (laughter) This is education. He is prepared to become a dog. He does not know what is the distinction between dog and human being. He is seeking after the dog's facility that he can have sex on the street. He is thinking the dog life is advantageous. This is the position. Therefore Professor Judah has written me this letter, that "I am simply surprised how you have converted the drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." This is his words.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Actually, I began this movement from July '66. I came in '65 but I could not do anything. I was loitering here and there. Actually, I began my preaching work from '66, June, July, I think, yes.

Dr. Judah: You must have been one of the hippies he converted there in Tompkins Park then.

Brahmānanda: Well, I wasn't quite a hippie. (laughter) There weren't hippies at that time. It was just beginning. So I had been to the university. I graduated NYU. But I'd been to India.

Dr. Judah: You had been to India?

Brahmānanda: Yes. I was planning on going back also. I wanted to take a further degree. I was applying for a Fulbright.

Dr. Judah: I see. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...by simply inquiring about Kṛṣṇa, you have become Kṛṣṇaized.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very good.

Satsvarūpa: But Swami Bon said, "No, He didn't convert him by argument, He converted him by the effulgence."

Prabhupāda: (To Bon:) "But there was argument, rascal." (laughter)

Satsvarūpa: And as a result of that...

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal, rascal.

Satsvarūpa: He told one professor that our devotees in general, they're not tolerant when someone speaks something.

Prabhupāda: (To Bon:) "You are also not tolerant. Why you have come here? Because you are envious. You are the most intolerant. You are blaspheming."

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's book, we are all servants, engaged. (break) (laughing) Here your parents accusing me, and in India the caste brāhmaṇas accusing me. My standing... I do not know what is my standing. Your parents are accusing me, "This rascal, converting our sons to become mendicant without any material enjoyment." And there, "This rascal is giving sacred thread to the mlecchas and yavanas." (Still laughing)

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: This has got some meaning. What is this matchbox? There is earth, there is sands (sense?), there is comfort. So we shall go this way or...? (break) It is all vacant? (break) Big demonstration of cow fighting, bull fighting, and kill them. Such a Christian is trying to convert others as Christians! Just see the fun. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are sporting with the life of bull, and they are Christian. We have to believe.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Devotee (1): I have heard that.

Prabhupāda: No. This is not good. Ghee should be prepared where there is no more use. The Indian village, simply by keeping cows, they... Just like Nanda Mahārāja was keeping cows. Similarly there are many villages. So the system is: they have got a big pan, and whatever milk is collected, put into that pan. It is being warmed. So they drink, the whole family members. They drink milk whenever they like. So whatever milk remains at night, they have to convert it into yogurt. The next day they use milk and yogurt also, as he likes. Then, after converting the milk into yogurt, still, it remains. It is stocked. So when there is sufficient old yogurt, they churn it and then butter comes out. So they take the butter, and the water separated from the butter, that is called whey? Whey, yes. So they... Instead of dahl, they use this whey, for capati. It will be very healthy and tasty. And then the butter they turn into ghee.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Milk you are collecting. So put in the pan. I have already explained. From milk stage to yogurt, yogurt to old yogurt, from old yogurt to butter, and then water, that whey. Then butter convert into ghee and whey, you can use, instead of drinking water, drink whey. Not a single drop of milk will be wasted, if you know how to do it. And you can take as much milk as possible, because ultimately it is going to be ghee. So if you start in the cities, nice restaurant, so ghee can be sold there. They'll pay for that. And they can prepare nice preparations, kachoris, samosa, sweetballs. Or milk, if you don't convert into yogurt, then naturally it will become... What is called?

Brahmānanda: Curd.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary. People will purchase like anything. Just like in our Rathayātrā festival, whatever sweets they prepared, all sold at good profit. Your countrymen, they did not see such nice things. And when they taste it—"Very nice."

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once said in Geneva that no one has died by giving up smoking.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually that is the fact. You have given up these four bad things, and what is your wrong, harm? Rather, you have become bright-faced. But they will not give it up. They think, "It is impossible." Brahmānanda: They say we have just undergone some religious conversion and become fanatical, and therefore we have given up. Prabhupāda: No, why don't you become fanatical? (laughter) Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Although it says in the Bible even that one should praise the Lord's name with cymbals and drums... Prabhupāda: They have no concern with Bible and God and everything. They are simply after sense gratification. What is the use of quoting about Bible? They don't care for Bible. The Europeans, Americans, they have rejected, thrown away, kicked out Bible because (it is) unscientific. Actually they do not accept. Although they call themselves Christian, they do not accept anything of Bible. That is... Bible is finished. There is no meaning of Bible. Simply for their sectarian prestige, they say "Bible." But actually they have nothing to do with Bible. What do you think? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: ...convert the Hindus to Christianity, the children. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Christian missionaries. They are trying to convert others, but they are closing their churches. They are selling their churches to us.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Finding new suckers. In South Africa they put up big paṇḍāls, and because the Indian people, they have no entertainment in the evening, so they go there and they are entertained, and they learn how to sing the hymns that they have. Then you find that the children are singing the hymns because that's the songs that they're learning. If we can provide entertainment like that in the form of saṅkīrtana, then they'll also sing Hare Kṛṣṇa and become devotees of Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...own Christian priests, they asked me that "Why Christianity is dwindling? What we have done?" So I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: (pause) You have to spend or waste gallons of blood before you can convert a person to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is so difficult task.

Cyavana: You have to spend?

Prabhupāda: Gallons of blood, waste.

Cyavana: In what way?

Prabhupāda: By talking with him, with the rascal and foolish. You tax your brain and spoil your energy, blood.

Harikeśa: Spend so much food.

Cyavana: So we should do that.

Prabhupāda: Unless you are not a preacher. You should be prepared. Yes. They cuts, sacrifices life, what to speak of wasting blood. Wasting life. This is preacher. Then he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa: "He has done so much for Me."

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Some of the fortunate persons like you, you are coming. Kona, kona, "some fortunate." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. But you can convert them to become fortunate. Devotee can do that. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. They are thinking very much advanced, but they are lost of their sense, lost of their intelligence. They think of us as foolish. We do not enjoy life. (laughter) And we think of them as animals. This is the position.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.

Dr. Patel: All Bengalis must be the member. Is it a fact that this temple, Jagannātha Purī, was originally a temple for Buddhists and then it was converted into... No?

Prabhupāda: This is all these speculators, rascals.

Dr. Patel: Who are the chief men in the temple committee of Jagannātha temple?

Prabhupāda: Government.

Dr. Patel: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Yes, government.

Dr. Patel: How can they be? Government, no. Temples are never controlled by government.

Prabhupāda: Although the king is there...

Yaśomatīnandana: The government of the king was controlling. Now the government is.

Dr. Patel: Which king?

Prabhupāda: The magistrate is the president of the maṭha.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because, you see, every woman loves the husband, but they don't become gopīs because the husband hasn't got that qualities like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was above three guṇas, so they became tri-guṇātita, all gopīs. Actually they were motivated by kama, but when they actually had the source of all prema, touched the feet of Kṛṣṇa, they converted themselves beyond all the three guṇas. Because God is not within the māyā, He is above it, so anything which was there comes above it.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...understanding Kṛṣṇa's position, if one... Kṛṣṇa...

Dr. Patel: They are talking nonsense about rasa-līlā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: And not only that, the water is again taken away and it is thrown into the Mississippi. So these rascals who think that "We have now merged. We are now liberated," that is rascaldom. They will be taken away and thrown again. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa... No, this is fact. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They cannot stay. They will be taken away by the nature's law, converted into cloud and thrown away, again come, again come. They are thrown away. They cannot stay. And again they become water and come through. That is going on, coming and going. So their merging is not fact.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: That was the article of the CARE, I think. They will give food, but you cannot use it to proselytize.

Prabhupāda: No, we give kṛṣṇa-prasādam, not food.

Acyutānanda: Like in Guntur, in a Christian hospital, in the maternity ward they would not release the baby to the parents until they converted to Christianity.

Harikeśa: Where?

Acyutānanda: In Guntur. So they did it to one brāhmaṇa family, and he brought it to the court because he was more orthodox, and they were.... Only one or two articles came in the newspaper. It was hushed up.

Harikeśa: It takes ten years for the court to decide.

Acyutānanda: Well, immediately the police ordered that it had to be released. Or they put.... Just like the Mohammedan water, they put some bread in a well in a place like this, and then they can say, "You are all Christian now because you have drunk the bread that we have put there."

Prabhupāda: They are doing like that here?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: They are doing like that here?

Acyutānanda: Yes. In Europe, when Christianity first came to Constantine, the priests would stay in the top of a river, and they marched an army through the river, and the priest put the holy water, and when the army came on the other side they said, "Now you've all been baptized. You're all Christians." Mass conversion. (break) ...Hindu groups are mixing Hinduism and Indian nationality, it's fascism. That was also the government's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Acyutānanda: Fascism.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Acyutānanda: The Hindu groups. That was the point that enraged the government. The same paṇḍitas with the prāyaścitta, they don't like the Mohammedans, they don't like the Christians. They say, "You have created Pakistan, so all the Mohammedans should go there. This is Hindustan."

Prabhupāda: Murvi(?) meat here?

Indian man (1): Not everyone did.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that religion?

Yaśodānandana: The simple fact that the Christians have to sprinkle water to convert means that they do not have any potency to by philosophy, to preach to them with strong philosophy.

Prabhupāda: There is no.... So, go on reading.

Harikesa: I'll backspace two sentences.

Acyutānanda: (break) "...have allowed us to wither away these different countries, and the religionists, they are keeping all the food. They are not distributing it."

Yaśodānandana: If we say that the Russia has no grains, they will say that they are big wheat producers in the southern part. They may counteract by saying, "We also produce..."

Acyutānanda: They had to purchase wheat from America.

Gurukeśa: Russia is importing its food grains now.

Prabhupāda: So why they cannot produce sufficient, such a big country?

Gurukeśa: And Eastern Europe, which is also communist, gets all its supplies from...

Prabhupāda: No, what is their explanation. Russia is the biggest country.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere, in Punjab also. Punjab also, the same thing.

Dr. Patel: One man was cast out and he was not taken back, so he converted half of the Bengal into Islam.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is: "Doesn't matter what you are. Now you become trained up. Whatever you are, it doesn't matter."

Dr. Patel: But so many Muslims have become very good, I mean, Vaiṣṇava saints.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: There are some examples in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: And I have got many disciples.

Dr. Patel: Vṛndāvana, there are two, three of them, I mean, not here, but Arabics.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu converted many Pathans to become Vaiṣṇava. He changed the name. One Pathan was named Rāmadāsa. Just like I have changed Ramjan into Rāma-rañjana, Attar into Atreya Ṛṣi.

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Hṛdayānanda: Served.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, ultimately, God. Se pasha pasha pasha bo... (?) When everything failure, then to become God.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Rūpānuga: Out of sight, they say it is finished.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this thing you have to convince them. Why should you allow them to remain a rascal? Now the sun is rising. Does it mean all of a sudden a sun is created? So these are the examples. You have to preach like that. Simply believe your eyes? You believe also there was no sun; now it is sun. That means all of a sudden a sun became created. See the intelligent persons and convince them. Yad yad ācārati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). Pick up the best man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He picked up the best men, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. So His movement became successful. Sanātana Gosvāmī was not an ordinary man. Very educated, learned brāhmaṇa and minister, Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up. Similarly Rūpa Gosvāmī, similarly Jīva Gosvāmī. Picked up means by His preaching they became converted. So similarly pick up a person like Sanātana Gosvāmī, intelligent, in position, and try to convince him. Why he will not be convinced, if he's a human being? This is not religion. That I am breathing, what is this breathing? Eh? What is the breathing?

Guru-kṛpā: Air going in and out.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, they.... So, so they're standing—no customer at two o'clock. It is very cold. So Vidyasagara will take compassion: "All right, you take two rupees. Go home. Sleep." And that is in Vidyasagara's life, compassionate to the prostitute. By giving her two rupees, will she change her profession? But this learned man, he thought like that, that "She is standing in the severe cold. All right, let me.... Let me.... Let me give her two rupees. Then go home. Don't take so much..." He's Vidyasagara. The vidyā-sāgara means "ocean of education." And Haridāsa Ṭhākura—a prostitute came for three nights and converted her to a devotee. That's it. That is real compassion, not that "Take two rupees and go home." No. Turn her. That is real compassion, to turn everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the greatest welfare activity in the world. Otherwise there cannot be any peace or prosperity. Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, he had a cold, and he's lying down.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I have not been able to find out any difference between the Bhāgavata-dharma and the Christianity. I have studied so thoroughly both of them. Actually Jesus Christ has taught nothing but Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. Still, the Christians, when they came here, these Portuguese, converted these people to Christians. They are fanatics. They are not...

Prabhupāda: No, they are doing.... They are doing in their own countries. In France the Roman Catholics and the Protestants, they are fighting and cutting each other's head. And still going on, it is. This is fanaticism.

Indian man: Political fanaticism.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Yes, and said Sītā was a prostitute. I don't know.... And still, the government could, I mean, support them. It's too much of a joke.

Prabhupāda: But these.... You cannot.... Even on religious principle or so-called religion, you cannot make equality. The rogues will always remain, either Hindu, Muslim.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He said that he has converted one million persons to be vegetarian. So vegetarian, automatically our disciples, they are automatically vegetarian. There is no separate preaching. And what about the... He was talking about the ahiṁsā. And I told that vegetarian does not mean ahiṁsā.

Dr. Patel: The ahiṁsā should be practiced by... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: No, in the śāstra it is said that ahastāni sa-hastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Phalgūni tatra mahatām.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Phalgūni tatra mahatām.

Prabhupāda: Ah, phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam.

Prabhupāda: Mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. This is natural, that one jīva is the food for another jīva.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The machine, I forgot to turn it..., one knob down. I wanted to tape what you were saying because.... (break) We find actually it's true that when we try to speak philosophy sometimes to unwilling persons, they take that we are trying to convert them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And therefore they feel threatened. They react in an adverse way, put up so many barriers.

Prabhupāda: Chanting they will take part. That's it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Before you went to America, in India, before 1965, were people coming at all, Indian people, to learn anything? Were they interested in any way?

Prabhupāda: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now they're coming, so many.

Prabhupāda: They were coming. But I was engaged in writing.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I haven't converted into how many... I can do that.

Prabhupāda: 11.34, that is good rate. So I wish that... We should combine the work very vigorously when this (indistinct). They are just like women, equal in preaching (indistinct). You keep some women together, and they fight. The children together, they will fight. Dogs together, they will fight. Sane man, why they will fight? Where is the cause of fight? Then you are (indistinct) to become woman. Worse. This material world is such that even you keep some utensil together, when dealing, tung, tung, tung, tung, tung, what to speak of individuals souls. But our cause is the common, how to push on. That soberness must be there. I can give you points, instructions, you will have to put it into shape; otherwise how it will go on?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can understand that Your Divine Grace does not want factions.

Prabhupāda: That will better the movement.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (1): These people cannot be converted.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. The dog cannot be converted. But we have to do it with stick. (break) ...that a dead child can be brought scientifically into life and he will grow, and still, they'll argue. So what is the use of argument with these rascals? When they are caught up, that "Do this," "Yes, we shall do in the future," and "What about the present?" there is no answer.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They..., don't read, you say "I am not reading any other literatures." Just like you say that "I have not gone to cinema house." It is another way of saying that "Don't go to cinema."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christian missionary was trying to convert the people; so they would not listen. But then when he told that, ah...

Hṛdayānanda: In hell there are no newspapers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In hell there are no newspapers, they went, "Oh!" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Huh? That he can send to us. Milk is so nice that it cannot be wasted, even a drop. First of all you get milk, that is the Indian system. So there is a big milk pan, and as soon as the milk is drawn it is put into the pan. The pan is in the fire. So as much as you like, drink milk, children, elderly persons. Then at night, when there is no demand for milk, it is converted into yogurt, not wasted. Whatever balance milk is there is converted into yogurt. Then in daytime also you take yogurt, as much as you like. If it is not all consumed, then it is stored in a pot. Then when that pot is enough stored, then you churn it. Churn it, and you get butter and Buttermilk. So again you take buttermilk with cāpāṭi and everything, not a single drop is lost. Then the butter, you melt it, convert into ghee and store it, it will stay for years. So not a drop of milk can be wasted. And this butter, because in the village they are eating so much milk products, they do not require butter or ghee. Maybe little, so that is stored. They go to the city. The city men they require, especially. Ghee is very important thing in the city. So they purchase. So in exchange of that money, whatever they want, they purchase in the city and come back. But the simply maintaining the cows, their economic problem is solved. Simply maintaining the cows. And to maintain cow there is no difficulty. The boys.... Just like Kṛṣṇa, as boy, was taking the cows, the calves, in the fields. They are grazing here and there, and coming back they're giving milk. Only one attendant required to take them into the pasturing ground and bring them back home. You don't require to give them food even. Simply take care, they give milk, and with milk you make so many preparations.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) All concoction. That is not explanation. This is nice explanation, that in this season the sun goes faster and in this season the sun goes slower. That is quite understandable. Just like you are walking. Sometimes you walk slow, sometimes you walk fast. That is possible. (pause) So you can convert the down room, one of the down room as reception, like this. This should be Deity room.

Hari-śauri: They'd have to section that big room off, though, to make a Deity room there. It would considerably reduce the size of that room.

Prabhupāda: Which room?

Hari-śauri: This big room upstairs? I was just looking because you mentioned it. But then they'd have to put a section for the Deities, so the actual temple space left would be very small.

Prabhupāda: No, it is bigger hall than the down.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There are many Christian church we have converted temple. They sell for want of customer. And we purchase, we increase customers. But customer of the same place. That is the beauty. These customers, they are not brought from India. But formerly they were not coming here, now they are coming in crowd. In Los Angeles we purchased.... You have been in Los Angeles? Now we have got a regular colony. About one dozen big, big houses. So that was a church. Nobody was coming, they sold it to us. Now it is always crowded. This church, they were not going to sell us. But (laughs) under circumstances it came to us. We wanted to purchase it, but the proprietor would not sell to us. They were charging very big price. So we are prepared. Still he'll not agree. Now we have purchased less price. (to devotee:) What is the history?

Devotee: Well, the previous owner didn't want to sell it to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes it's also seen, say, that Muslims and Hindus they will be converted to Christianity, and the same argument can be given. So what would be the difference for the, in this case, that one who is identifying himself as Christian or one is identifying himself as devotee of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is religion. The religion is God's law. You have to understand. Religion does not mean your manufactured, concocted ideas. What God says, that is religion. So here Kṛṣṇa is God. He is saying. Therefore this is religion. Is that clear? Make it clear. So long one point is not clear, don't go to the next point.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It was not used.

Rūpānuga: It was simply for office, like that. And the temple building was a gymnasium. It used to be a gymnasium, and we have converted the whole thing.

Vipina: That was one reason that we were very much attracted to the property. The property itself was not very beautiful when we came, but the gym was built, and we saw it as an immediate temple where we could hold kīrtana and preach. So we then made a contract and the fish bit.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking.

Vipina: No one was taking it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Our Detroit property is like that.

Rūpānuga: White elephant.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking, but it was quite suitable for us. And that is the finest property. You have seen it?

Rūpānuga: I have not been there. I have seen photographs.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called? No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many swamis, people came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many swamis, yogis, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. They are supposed to be great personalities, but not a single person was converted.

Dr. Sukla: (indistinct) ...he was asked who is such a master. He pointed out could not answer who can be such a master. He posed himself as a spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: So here is an opportunity to preach real India's traditional culture. So those who are Indians present here, they should cooperate. They should not mislead further.

Dr. Sukla: We have started teaching your Gītā at Georgetown University, where I teach. Before we had, we have two years course of Sanskrit, and we had some excerpts from Mahābhārata and some Pañca-tantra and so on, but there was no Gītā. So I decided and we were using the entire Gītā for the second year. Your contributions can't be duplicated.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's a great certificate, because it is coming from you.

Dr. Sharma: It's a supernatural thing. I do not believe that it is natural. It is in the world and eternal. I have been here... To be able to convert these people, to be able to make devotees, is unnatural.

Prabhupāda: Where is Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That indemnity bond? I think I can pack it away until New York City.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I could take care of that, pack it away until we get to New York.

Prabhupāda: Who will pack it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think I put it on your desk in there.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Indemnity bond. But the letter has to be written also.

Dr. Sharma: Today's discussion was possibly the most magnificent, and very clearly given, about people can be in work as well as...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Our interviewer came.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was telling me that he was planning to make thousands of men, convert thousands of Indians. I was wondering, if thousands of Indians join us, how will the government feel?

Prabhupāda: They cannot check.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really, they won't stop us.

Prabhupāda: If they want to stop it, it will increase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, right. Especially in Bengal, as soon as the Bengalis know that something is against the government, then they get very vehement.

Devotee: It's encouraging when they try to resist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call us sāhebs. It says "What urges the sāhebs and memasāhebs." That's how they refer to us.

Prabhupāda: Our Māyāpur temple is known as sāheb mandira. In Vṛndāvana, English, iṁrejī.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: He gave another Bible teaching. Again he converted people to follow, to accept him as God. So this whole religion is based on his teachings when he came to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Except for them, who accepts such a thing? No one accepts that except the Mormons.

Rāmeśvara: They say that God orders every man to get married.

Hari-śauri: They are very strong on the principle of family life.

Prabhupāda: That is a good idea.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Without fighting, you've got so many temples.

Prabhupāda: No, I never stressed on temple. I was engaged in publishing the Back to Godhead. Whatever I could do, I did it because I took it very seriously that he is very sorry that these things were not done. He said that "There will be fire in this Gaudiya Math." Āgun jvālbe, he said. Amari taci loka kichui boi kakrayebo (?): "If I can, I shall sell these marbles of this temple and convert them into books." That was his ambition. He started a very nice press and this Tirtha Maharaja sold it.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: There will be great catastrophe. The unemployment will increase, and people will be very dissatisfied with the.... Especially the black. They will create havoc. This is artificial. They are increasing the production of tire tube and lid. So who will purchase? Nobody lives in the tire tube. Therefore unemployment. So therefore reduce production. You cannot go on increasing. You very much trade this tire tube and so many artificial.... It is very artificial civilization. If you produce.... (break) Here so far milk and food grains are concerned, whatever sumptuously you want to eat, eat. Balance you can keep stock. The milk can be converted into ghee, then keep stock, and the grains can be stocked. Whenever you like, you just grind the grains and have to eat, halava.

Room Conversation -- August 4, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So what happened to the tickets?

Harikeśa: The tickets are being locked up in the safe right now. They're going to..., they're going to bring the tickets tomorrow to this city called Tours, which is very nearby. They have an Air France office, and we can have it converted(?) there. So everything's all right for Saturday.

Prabhupāda: So we shall go by the same plane?

Harikeśa: Yes, everybody goes in the same plane.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: But you said to make everyone fortunate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is by your preaching. That we have to do. We are doing that. That I have given the example, Nityānanda Prabhu, He faced rebellion, and by His power converted the Jagāi-Mādhāi. By chanting. They injured, Jagāi-Mādhāi injured, and Nityānanda Prabhu said, "Never mind you have injured Me, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is not advertisement, that is personal behavior.

Jñānagamya: In Dallas where I was there's a town next door, Ft. Worth, there are many rich Baptists, Fort Worth. They have big studio for producing many different films, television shows.

Prabhupāda: These Christian people, they have got money, and still the churches are being closed. What is the effect?

Jñānagamya: They have no potency to their message. It's not the medium, it's their message.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, by their advertisement, the effect is the church is being closed.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got many students. In Iran we have got center and there are many Muslims. They are our student.

Interviewer (5): What is the response in Iran?

Prabhupāda: Iran? The response, they are hearing, but some of them, they are already converted student. Our head of the institution in Iran is Ātreya Ṛṣi. His name was Attar (indistinct).

Interviewer (5): You have some project here. Can you kindly explain what is that?

Prabhupāda: Our project is Bhagavad-gītā, learn Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically in your life.

Interviewer (5): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying to establish an institution in Kurukṣetra to teach Bhagavad-gītā in practical life and inviting students all over the world. That is our program. We have asked for some land from the government. So if the government gives us the land, we can try it also.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Now who has converted so many of... This is one party. (refers to kīrtana going on nearby) Hundreds of parties like this, they are engaged in kīrtana. India government is sending so many professional dancers by paying them from the cultural department and what I am getting? Not a single farthing. And still I am bringing.

Krishna Modi: Ah, Indian culture is... You... Nobody has done these things.

Prabhupāda: The Ratha-yātrā festival, where is?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the news of Ratha-yātrā. "New York Celebrates Festival of Chariots." Even at the U.N. conference we were there. They welcomed Vedic... We presented a Vedic reply to the U.N. conference.

Prabhupāda: Wherever possible we are presenting Vedic culture, Indian culture. And I have no support from the government.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is due to the blessing of my Guru Mahārāja. He directly told me that "If you get some money, publish some books." I took it seriously, so he's helping me. All our Godbrothers, they didn't take it. Did not know it, neither... Even they... They know it. Because from the very beginning, Guru Mahārāja was serious about publication. He started press and published these books. This Bhāgavata was published by him. And the journal, six journals, he was very much fond of publishing, publication. Very, very. He told me directly that if it was possible to get the marbles from this Gauḍīya Maṭha and sell it and convert it into books, I would have done it. Because I know there will be blazing fire in this place. (break) And by Kṛṣṇa's grace, by selling books we are getting. This is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise... This Bon Mahārāja is so proud of his institution. He could not do this. He could have done it. For the last forty years.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They can. They'll not accept the process. They can. Everyone. Otherwise why these brahmacārīs? Just to be trained. That's all. By training we can find so many brahmacārīs. Just like by training you have given up so many things. You were accustomed to this illicit sex and meat-eating and... But you have given up. But why? By training. So if we request the government, "Let us open this brahmacārī..." They'll not help. But they'll make the other propaganda. They'll make contraceptive method, and naturally one Hindu widow is trained up not to marry again. Once she got a husband, that's all right. Now you convert your, you divert your attention to Kṛṣṇa. They'll make propaganda. "Why stop her sense gratification? Let her marry again, widow marriage." Why widow marriage? If there is voluntarily giving up begetting any more child, to avoid husband, why the widow marriage bill is introduced? Everything was natural, brahmacārī. The sterilization is already there. That will not be accepted. Widow, she's remaining refrained from.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: Sir, apart from Catholicity of the American church, what can be the other reasons of their indifference towards your positive ideas?

Prabhupāda: Not indifference. They are... You see, there is a remark of a politician. There is no indifference. They are appreciating that it is spreading like epidemic. There is no question of indifference. But the leaders, they appreciate. Some of the fathers of my disciples, they come to offer their thanks, "Swamiji, it is a great fortune for us that you have come to our country." They say like that. They appreciate that their sons were going to be hippies. Now they are devotees, God conscious. So any sane man will never object to this. The priests also, they say that "These boys are our boys..." In Boston, one priest said. "And they never cared to come to the church or inquire about God. And now these boys are mad after God." Not only that, practically, in many places we have purchased churches and converted into temples. So we see these churches were sold because nobody was coming. But since this movement is there, the same church is there and the same persons are there. You will find always it is crowded. This is practical. I have not imported men from India to fill up the temples. Their men and their church, but the philosophy is different. It is filled up.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: It's not that we're letting the money sit and accumulating.

Prabhupāda: No. I am daily canvassing Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, "Print book! I don't want to keep the money in the bank, convert into the books and keep it in our..." I am asking.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Whatever little money I've got, I don't want to keep in the bank. I want to convert it and purchase paper, print book. Then these rascals will never be able to take anything from us.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking every time. Ask Gopāla that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And they are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So, which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (4): Swamiji, what about missionaries who are working in India who are coming from abroad and they are actually exploiting. If they put a charge against our institution, well, we can definitely say that we are motivating the intellect to take into the higher stage of life. Here the missionaries who come, they go in the backward areas and those who are not learned, those who are practically uneducated... I mean, their mission is to convert them in Christianity. You see, that charge is rather more grave than the particular one which they have leveled against us. You see, we can put that argument, isn't it? How many Hindus are converted into Christianity. We are not converting them, we are just...

Prabhupāda: Our case is not that we are going to convert one Hindu to Christian, or Christian to Hindu. There is no meaning. Our is, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even if you are Hindu, even you are Muslim, you are Christian, kick it out. That is our movement. We do not advocate that "You are Christian, you become Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, you become..." They are taking like that. But our movement is not that.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I say any religious stamp, material, there is no benefit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have to give up all these designations. And bhakti, love of Godhead, or service to God, begins when you are relieved from these designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When becoming God conscious, you become completely purified, then your devotional life begins. And so long you are entangled with this designation, there is no question of devotional service. Either you Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. So our business is not that, that we convert a Hindu to a Christian or a Christian to a Hindu. That is not our business. They are thinking, because we dress like that, with tilaka, with māla, they think Hindu. But it's not our business to convert the Christians to become Hindus, as all other missionaries, they are doing. They are trying to increasing the number of Christian or Hindus. So our... There is no question of increasing. It is very difficult to accept.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Originally denoting the specific technique employed by Chinese Communists to effect ideological persuasion to extreme psychological and often physical coercion, the term brainwashing is defined as a colloquial term applied to any technique designed to manipulate human thought or action against the desired will or knowledge of the individual." That's from the Encyclopedia Britannica. "In popular usage it becomes an imprecise, all-encompassing and pejorative term used to describe any kind of persuasion or behavior with which one may disagree. In psychology it is not generally accepted, I am told, as a legitimate clinical term. How does one wash another's brain? The dynamics of 'conversion' in the case of Kṛṣṇa consciousness are quite informal. Talking with devotees, reading scripture, meditation, etc. and certainly do not include the application of any type of psychological coercion against the desire, will, or knowledge of the potential or novice devotee. Although life in a Hare Kṛṣṇa community is communal and monastic with well-defined guidelines affecting the behavior and religious practice, it is in fact, a good deal more open then many or most types of monastic communities.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has recommended our case, that "This is the only institution who is making the Christian Hindu. Before this movement the Christian converted Hindus. Nobody could convert the Christian to become Hindu. And this is the only movement that is converting Christian to Hindu." So he is very much in favor of this movement, and it is understood that he talked with Indira Gandhi in telephone. So maybe that if that Hindu movement is increasing and in India the cow slaughter is going on, and it is against Hindu, (they) might have considered like that.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Before me, for the last two hundred years, so many swamis and yogis went to the Western countries. Nobody could convert a single person to Hinduism. That is a fact in the history. These foreigners-giving up meat-eating, illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling—it is a horrible thing for them. Lord Zetland said, "This is impossible for us." Factually it is impossible, because American government spent millions of dollars to stop this LSD intoxication but it was not successful. But they have seen that as soon as the same boy comes to our camp, he immediately gives up, immediately, without any protest, that "Why shall I give up?" No. I ask, "You have to give up." "Yes, we do." That's a fact. Therefore this Swami Chit?

Jagadīśa: Chandra Swami.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Chandra Swami, has strongly recommended that "This is the only movement which is converting Christian into Hindu." He is pleased on this account. He is not interested our Hare... He has said that "I am not very much interested in Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I am interested in this point." That is natural, that nobody could convert the Christian to Hindu, but this movement is doing that.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: When we go out and preach and we just repeat or try to repeat whatever we've heard from the spiritual master, but we may not have fully realized what we're speaking about, does that somehow or another reduce the potency of the Gītā or the Bhāgavatam or...

Prabhupāda: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you simply repeat as Kṛṣṇa says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no ācārya. Instead of being amānitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the ācārya system it is rotten. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on. Therefore in spite of so many Gītā commentators, big, big leaders, scholars, not a single person is converted into a devotee. Not a single person amongst their followers. It's useless talking. Therefore it is forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtam... Because they are not Vaiṣṇava, politicians and—reject them immediately. Immediately. That is the injunction. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are so respectful. People have got... Now you have got your svarāja. Please take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and let us preach."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Then... Then...

Prabhupāda: No, let him. That you have to practice, how to use kāma, krodha. That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Kāma means you have a strong desire to do something. That is kāma. So convert it, this kāma desire, for Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. And persons who are envious of the devotees, you become angry upon them. You have got this quality, kāma, krodha, lobha, but you can utilize it. Just like Hanumān. He became very angry, and he set fire in the Lanka. Unless one is very angry, he cannot do that. But that krodha was applied to the demon. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we can utilize kāma, krodha, moha, bewilderment. When we cannot find out a bhakta, then we should be bewildered. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. So therefore bhakti process means that everything has to be purified. Krodha, Hanumān's krodha to set fire Laṅkā, it is purified krodha. But they cannot understand the krodha, how it is purified. But krodha can be purified. When it is bhakta-dveṣi-jane... Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Indian lady: May I ask one question? I'm running my own school in Hosharpur, and it starts to A-class, and I want to convert it into gurukula. How I can make arrangements for the books and the examination or the students can take Welley(?) certificate and examination from recognized book? We should make something.

Prabhupāda: Running on...? What is that school?

Indian lady: All kind of school, English-speaking.

Prabhupāda: But if you have to work under government regulation, then you cannot do it. You won't get government help.

Indian lady: But I want to convert it into gurukula on the basis of Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Our gurukula means how to teach them to become self-controlled. That is first business. This literary education secondary, grammar secondary. The first necessity is how to create them śānta, dānta, self-controlled.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (10): Opposition is natural. Because you are converting their churches into temples.

Prabhupāda: No, there are many... First thing is that my students are advised, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to the point of smoking cigarette and drinking tea, and no gambling." But this is their life. How they can give up this? That is... It is a shock. Therefore they say, "brainwashing," that "How a gentleman can give up all these things?" Many... No many. A few of my students, they left. They said that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They left. They could not tolerate even. So I do not make any compromise. That you want to become my student you have to give up these things. So the responsible parents, they are appreciating that "My son is now purified." But some of them, there are...

Guest (2): They feel that you are kidnapping their children. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are kidnapping. His father, mother came in Calcutta. His mother asked, "Swamiji, please return my son." And "Take your son."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: These psychologists say that if there is a lack of sleep, then the mind becomes very susceptible to another person's ideas. You can get control of him by depriving him of sleep. Just like they say... There was a war once in the country of Korea between America and China, and the prisoners, the Americans, were captured and put into these prison camps, and the Chinese tried to convert them to Communism by lack of sleep and lack of food, torture. In this way, they say, this is widely accepted that if a person has too little sleep or too little food, then you can break his will and change his life by force.

Prabhupāda: So that is all right. Then you break. Now he's quite fit for your conversion. He's now weak. You convert him to your ideas. (laughter) We have made the ground.

Rāmeśvara: That's what they want! They want us...

Prabhupāda: Then why do you kidnap? You say.

Rāmeśvara: They want us to give the devotees to them, and then they will deprive them of food and sleep and deprogram him.

Jagadīśa: But we're already depriving him of food and sleep.

Prabhupāda: But they are open to everyone. Why do you kidnap? Why do you steal like a thief?

Rāmeśvara: For his own good.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: And also later missionaries went all over the world alone, to Africa, all countries of the world, converting people, although it was very difficult. So they had a very good missionary spirit formerly. When I went to Fiji I saw many Christian churches in Fiji. Right next door to the house where Vasudeva lives there is a Christian tabernacle, and they wake up every morning at 4:30 and they have hymns-same practice as we have, but it's Christian hymns.

Hari-śauri: Along with all, that, though, they're allowed to please their senses in any way that they like. So their teaching doesn't really have much benefit for anyone. They're still doing all kinds of sinful activity. Now their idea is that if you accept Jesus, it means that you can carry on doing as many sinful activities as you like, but Jesus is going to take all the sinful reaction.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. "He died for us, so why should we suffer?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is the contractor. They say that "Our religion is very good. If you simply have faith in Jesus Christ, we can do anything."

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Just imagine what kind of astrologer. The modern astrologers, they cannot foretell like that, neither they can believe that it is possible.

Satsvarūpa: (reading) "The real qualification is to become a devotee of the Lord, and gradually all the good qualities worthy of possession developed. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was a mahā-bhāgavata, or a first-class devotee, who was not only well versed in the science of devotion but also able to convert others to become devotees by his transcendental instructions. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was, therefore, a devotee of the first order, and thus he used to consult great sages and learned brāhmaṇas who could advise him by the śāstras how to execute the state administration."

Prabhupāda: So who is going to do that? All these... All rogues and thieves, drunkards and fourth-class character, meat-eaters, they are the government. How you can expect good government for the benefit of the people? This is Kali-yuga. Unfortunately we have on the heads of government all men of the low-grade character. You... Your President?

Satsvarūpa: New President?

Prabhupāda: No, that Kennedy.

Satsvarūpa: Kennedy.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Yes. There's unlimited field.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sanskrit is very difficult. But when I have given in English language, you can convert into any other. English is known everywhere. This is international. So far I have seen—I've traveled all over the world—English language is understood. Sometimes they purposefully avoid. Otherwise, they understand. I have seen in Germany. They understand English, but they hate talking.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So hire. That also he can become devotee. He can spare fifty percent of his income. Then he becomes a devotee. Hiring men and working, I don't think that will be very profitable. Then we can purchase from the market.

Jayapatākā: Even a lot of men are used for making the garden. In the beginning, converting the land to garden land for flowers requires a lot of labor. Because flowers require very...

Prabhupāda: Fertile.

Jayapatākā: ...fertile and particularly fine soil that has to be dug and chopped and cleaned out.

Prabhupāda: Ordinary soil flower does not grow?

Jayapatākā: No, it... Not so well.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Some were, not all. And the Muhammadans, the could not convert any gentleman to Muhammadanism. Maybe one or two, say. Very... And similarly, Christian also. No high-class man became Christian. One or two. That is for some other purpose. Just like in Scottish Churches College, the Christian Indians were given more preference. There was one Mr. Raya. He would not speak in Bengali. Even if some Bengali student would like to talk with him Bengali, he would answer in English. (laughs) He was so sharp. (Bengali) (Hindi) You understand Hindi any of you? There is a song in the Howrah Bridge, pontoon bridge. So when this Howrah Bridge..., not this bridge. Up to 1900... When my daughter was married, in 1941, up to that time there was a bridge connecting Howrah and Calcutta, pontoon bridge. That we were seeing from childhood, from our birth. So this was an astonishment in India. They wrote song, (Hindi), that "How wonderful bridge this sāheb company...," because India was being governed by East Indian Company... After mutiny, Queen Victoria took charge. Otherwise the British government was known as Company Raja Sahib, East India Company. So the East India Company, they constructed this temple, er, bridge. So there is a song, (Hindi), like that. So this East India Company... Therefore this railway was known, "East India Railway." That is the first beginning of railway, from Calcutta to Burdwan, beginning of Ind... There was no railway in India.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Instead of keeping in the bank, keep books stock. It will save. That principles let us follow. Simply keep the book that it may not be spoiled, it may not be stolen. Otherwise it is our..., as good as government currency notes. Take that. As soon as there is money, convert it into books.

Harikeśa: I was thinking also that Gopāla Kṛṣṇa could buy the milk powder from Bali-mardana by printing books for him. He could print the books in India for Australia...

Prabhupāda: I have suggested already, already suggested that "Take milk powder and ghee from Australia, and every center distribute prasādam like anything." And in India at least, if you give them nice puri and chānā preparation and sweet preparation from milk, oh, they'll be so glad, both poor man and rich man. Yesterday I was eating kacuris. What is this kacuri? Made of ghee. Samosā, made of ghee; rasagullā, made of... Cow is so important. She can deliver so many nice preparations, sweet and salty. The whole world does not know how to eat. Like rākṣasas they are killing the poor animals. So we have to teach. This is an introduction of new type of civilization for making life successful.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These dollars has to be deposited in Bank of America. Other bank will not take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any bank will convert.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. I mean, when anybody comes here, any tourist, they always bring dollars.

Prabhupāda: Is that?

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, it was done in the Central Bank, Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Dollars is easy.

Prabhupāda: All right. So organize that party.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So encourage him to translate more books. (background conversation with Dr. Sharma) In Russia, if they allow us to speak, then we can convert many. There is no doubt about it. But they have restriction for outsider. Now, here is a scientific man. They'll not hear?

Dr. Sharma: Because this Vaiṣṇava is controversial to them.

Prabhupāda: Controversial for them, not for the scientists.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So he was doing... "Well, she is Muhammadan woman. You hate?" "Oh! They are not Muhammadans. We don't accept Muhammadan." These are my personal experience. They do not accept. Turkey also refused. When there were wars the, some of the Muhammadan leaders, Muhammad Ali, they wanted to present himself. He refused to accept. He said, "Go! You are not to see your business." His name was... He was very famous man. So they want to mix with the other Muhammadan countries like Afghanistan, Turkey... (break) They do not like. And actually it is a fact. Indian Muhammadans means all low-class Hindus, they converted into. Christian also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And no brāhmaṇas were converted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: They did not accept. Therefore we see there is indirect indifference with our temple. Did you mark it? The high-class Hindus, they do not very much appreciate our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?

Prabhupāda: Our temples.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our temples?

Prabhupāda: Because it is managed by the Americans.

Morning Talk -- June 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what kind of preaching he has done? Nobody knows him. This common sense they haven't got. And here it is advertised, "Vivekananda has converted whole America into Vedantist." (laughs) And they take money for that. (pause) Pradyumna may see me ten minutes a day. That will be simplified. He comes after week.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I talked to him. I asked him, "Why don't you discuss your questions with Bhakti-prema Swami first? And then, if he cannot answer, then go ask Śrīla Prabhupāda."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He may come during my massage time daily, ten minutes.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't make you change any different. Actually no one even recognizes any difference after following it. They're fools to begin with, and they come out fools at the end. It says here, it quotes Dr. Stillson Judah. Unfortunately it doesn't quote Dr. Stillson Judah right about us. It seems that Stillson Judah has also written a book about Moon. So it's quoting, "Stillson Judah of the Graduate Theological Union shows a small core of membership, three thousand in the case of the Moonies." It says here that "But through persistent evangelic efforts these groups are winning new converts and attain fiscal stability."

Prabhupāda: I think that Maharishi is therefore in Hrishikesh. He's afraid of being arrested or something like that.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He converted that hunter, Mṛgāri. He was killing, but then he would not trample even on one ant.

Prabhupāda: So that is being done now. So he has to judge from this intelligence. We do not maintain any political view, what American government or Indian government... We want the whole people of the world, let them become human being. That is our movement. What is this? Simply killing business is going on. All governments should cooperate, pushing on this movement for humanity's sake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually in Communist countries now, Eastern Europe, in the universities, they are cooperating. But why these Bengali Marxists, they are not? The Communists are cooperating.

Prabhupāda: They know that we are the only enemy against their movement.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are expert at preaching to the guṇḍās. Therefore everyone becomes converted by your preaching. We were all guṇḍās. I think that your coming to America was no less fearless than Lord Caitanya when He went into the Jhārikhaṇḍa forest to preach, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In fact, we were worse than the animals that Lord Caitanya had to deal with. At least an animal keeps to his nature. Just like you described that boy that who was taking... You were staying in his loft, and he was taking intoxicants. He was acting like you could not calculate what he would do. Animals you can expect something. And you were there alone. Single-handedly, you were walking around in the streets. Sometimes New York is called a jungle.

Bhavānanda: "Asphalt jungle."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Asphalt jungle.

Prabhupāda: Who is come in?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rūpānuga Prabhu is here, Tripurāri Mahārāja, and Ikṣvāku Prabhu and Yadubara Prabhu.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Also he converted one of his palaces into a hotel, and he's ordering 301 copies of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, one for each room in the hotel. And he's also associated with the Taj Hotel. So he's going to try to see about having them take one Gītā for each room.

Prabhupāda: So you have taken your dinner?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right. Then take rest.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Preaching means to convert Māyāvādīs to Vaiṣṇava. Otherwise where is the need of preaching?

Bhavānanda: Preaching also means risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No risk. We take money from them. So we get some money. That is our gain. So anything, do very carefully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you said we should have a sign, "No Māyāvādī Meetings Allowed."

Prabhupāda: No. If this is allowed free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Well, this wasn't free. They're paying for being here. They're paying to be here.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're paying to hold their program.

Prabhupāda: No gratis lecture allowed. If they pay for, they will talk all nonsense, (laughter) and we don't care for it. These are the considerations. That's all right. Turn me this side.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Well, this Vairāgya Vidyā, that will be printed in two weeks, so then we will distribute that. In English there's good scope also, because in my zone, Arunachal Pradesh and Meghalaya, they are English-predominated state because the Christian missionary have converted everyone. But they found great reception there, although the Christians are... Even the Christians are buying. There seems to be a lot of land for sale right now. About 60 to 80 bighās of land is for sale, and the people are asking the market rates. So it's... We don't have to depend on acquisition. We can just go and buy.

Prabhupāda: Can you... If you are able to... (mic moving) Subscribe within our jurisdiction so much land. Otherwise they will sublet(?) it. Why you have purchased agricultural land?

Jayapatākā: We will purchase in the... We'll get a permit from the government to hold more land. And until that time, then we'll purchase in the name of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Svarūpa Dāmodara.