Prabhupāda: Oh, he was talking that on zero some great swami spoke four hours. And he was very proud that on zero one can speak throughout his whole life. Now I did not... (laughs) But if you can speak on some subject matter for four hours, how it is zero? Just see the contradiction. Gaurasundara, you were present when he was speaking? You heard? If I can speak something on a subject matter, is that subject matter zero? Zero means śūnya. Śūnya means nothing. So how you can speak on nothing? If you can speak on nothing, then nothing is no more nothing. It is something. Just see. But you are so proud. "Oh, he spoke on zero for four hours." I did not contradict because he is newcomer, but I talked on other subject. But this is the position. Suppose you can talk on zero for four hours. Then either you waste your time... Because after all it is zero. The result is zero. Just like you add one million zeros. So what is the value? Zero. So who is a fool that knowing that one million zeros makes zero, why shall I waste my time making so many zeros? So either he is a fool or if zero has so much substance to speak, then how it is zero? If zero has so much value that one can speak on it for hours and hours together, then how it is zero? So people do not understand things very properly. They're so dull. Then he was eulogising the man who spoke on zero for four hours. Yes. That is the system, if you hear a man talking nonsense and people will give cla... Oh! And he's asking what you have understood, "Oh! it is very difficult to explain." Then why you are wasting time? If you cannot express, if you do not understand. Simply people wants jugglery of words, they don't want substance. They don't want substance. That is the difficulty in the mod..., in the present age.
Contradiction (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
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|"contradiction's"
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|"contradicts"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...from where everything emanates. He is the source of all life. Whatever we see, it is in the Absolute Truth. All these universes, all these planets, all the suns and moons, the sky, and everything, they have come from the original source, the Absolute Truth. Now, in the material world we have got so many contradictions, but that contradiction is there also in the Absolute Truth. Just like fighting. Fighting is not a very good thing, but still, the fighting spirit is there in the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, how fighting can be exhibited? So the theory, nonviolence... Nonviolence is not absolute. Nonviolence and violence, everything is there in the Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, either nonviolence or violence, they are absolute. Here we have got bad effects of violence, but when violence is performed by the Absolute, it has no bad effect, it has good effect.
Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free." It is very contradiction from the materialistic point of view. It is said that, bhaktanam śam abhīpsataḥ. "As the devotees think, so I also in that way thought." What is that? Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ. "I thought it a special grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ pratiṣṭhāṁ disam uttaram: "And I at once took leave of my so-called home and went away."
Prabhupāda: Leave there and reach there also. Reach.
Reporter: Reach, I see. But would the flight that was just completed, that doesn't contradict with anything in this book? I mean they were within, I don't know, so many miles...
Prabhupāda: But so far we have got information, no flight has been successful to land there till now. So I do not think how they are going to be successful in the future. This process, just like we are going from one place to another by motor car or by airplane, this process will not help us to go to the moon planet. The process is different as described in the Vedic literature. One has to qualify.
Reporter: What would be, when you say impossible for one to land or to reach the moon's surface.
Prabhupāda: Just like why you speak of moon? Suppose in the ocean, in the ocean you can land by some artificial means for some time, but it is not suitable for human being to live on the ocean. Apart from moon planet, you take the ocean, water, ocean.
Reporter: If the space program, either the Russian or the American program, which have plans to try to land on the moon and return safely, if this is successful, do you think this accomplishment would hurt the Kṛṣṇa movement in the United States? It would contradict Vedic...
Prabhupāda: Why? First thing is even they are successful, according to our principle, it is simply waste of time. Because we are not concerned even with the moon planet. We are trying to go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa from where nobody returns back to this wretched condition of life. So the wretched condition of life is as good in moon planet as it is in this earth planet. And do you know what is the wretched condition of life? Yes. The birth, death, old age and disease. This is the wretched condition of life. So you cannot avoid this wretched condition of life in the moon planet also. There is birth, death, old age and disease. But where we are trying to go by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no birth, death, old age and disease. So even there are, people are successful to go to the moon planet, what connection we have got there? We are not at all concerned with any planet where there is birth, death and old age and disease. Even in the highest planet of this universe.
Reporter: Well, what I'm getting at is that if for instance you say that first this conviction that they would not be able to land, and secondly that whatever earth people would go there would be opposed and would not be able to safely return, if you say this, based on Vedic literature, and other members of the Kṛṣṇa movement heard this, and then if the feat were accomplished, would this not seem a contradiction or something that had been said would be the case and then the opposite was proved true? Would this...
Prabhupāda: What is that contradiction? There is nothing contradiction. We say that if you get a suitable body you can enter there. So if by your scientific process you can equip yourself with suitable body you can enter there. Where is the contradiction?
Reporter: Well, you said that spacesuit was not a suitable...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. That is not suitable.
Reporter: Okay, then let's say that if with that suit they do go there and do return, would that be a contradiction?
Prabhupāda: Why contradiction? We say that if you get a suitable suit you can go there. Where is the contradiction?
Reporter: Well I thought you said the spacesuit was not suitable.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spacesuit is not suitable. But if you can go with the spacesuit that may be contradiction, but that I am certain you cannot go.
Reporter: I'm confused.
Prabhupāda: I say... Just try to understand me, that if you can prepare a suitable body, you can go there. But this spacesuit is not the suitable body. Is that all right? Now if you actually go there by this spacesuit, that will be contradiction to my statement, but I am certain you cannot do that.
Reporter: I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there will be no contradiction. Just clearly try to understand.
Prabhupāda: I'll repeat. I'll repeat. First thing is that to enter into the moon planet you have to prepare yourself for a different body. If that body, you think that it is already made by the spacesuit, spacesuit is that different body, then it will be contradiction to my statement. But I say that with the spacesuit that you have manufactured, that is not fit to enter there. Now it is clear? The spacesuit is not fit for entering there. Is that clear?
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now if by chance with this spacesuit you enter there, that will be contradiction, that nobody can enter. But I say you can enter there with a suitable body. If you think that the spacesuit is that suitable body then you can enter there. But I think this spacesuit is not that suitable body.
Reporter: If I think the spacesuit is suitable...
Prabhupāda: For entering that moon planet... That is your statement, but I say that spacesuit is not suitable for entering into the...
Reporter: If I think the spacesuit is suitable and, say, if I am an astronaut and I land there, I can land there?
Prabhupāda: If it is suitable. First thing that if it is suitable you can land. But to my opinion it is not suitable. Therefore you cannot land.
Prabhupāda: You take some, take some... Take this.
Reporter: Oh, thanks. ...go to a, have a suitable body, and his belief that the spacesuit is not a suitable body or a substitute or whatever. It is not the same thing, and yet if this is accomplished it seems to be that he's also saying that there's no contradiction to his statement.
Prabhupāda: Because I say if you get a suitable body. So if you think that this is suitable body then you can enter. There is no contradiction. But I think it is not suitable body. But in all cases if you get suitable body you can enter there.
Hayagrīva: It's just the means. He said it's not impossible to go there, but the means that they're using now are not very good means to go there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: ...that there would be no contradiction there and in the case of say no interference from any moon beings, that I can foresee that there would be no contradiction there if it is achieved.
Prabhupāda: No. That means simply by your suit, if you... Just like if I got a nice suit and enter your port, New York or any port, but if the immigration department does not allow me, what can I do? Is that suit sufficient? You cannot enforce there. There are intelligent persons there. Suppose if I come, a very nice costly dress, in your port and if your immigration department does not allow, what can you do? There are intelligent persons there. How do we expect that simply by you have got suit, therefore you'll be able to, allowed to enter there? That is not sufficient qualification.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (4): I really couldn't believe it.
Prabhupāda: No, in the reading matter he said that, "He was trained by his father to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, to observe Rathayātrā, and he was taught mṛdaṅga." These are all true. But anyone who worships Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and who follows the Hindu ceremonies, Rathayātrā, how he can say that "Hinduism nothing"? Just see how rascaldom. This is contradiction.
Guest (4): Mahārāja, there is reason for that. Because that paper, the owner of that press is a Jain. And the Jains have a natural antipathy towards the ...?...
Prabhupāda: Oh, just see. So how biased man can report? So therefore we are avoiding reports.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then you mean to say that Kṛṣṇa contradicts.
Guest (3): No, not Kṛṣṇa contradicts.
Prabhupāda: Then why you bring this question?
Guest (3): The Gītā, the Gītā is... Sir, if I may be permitted to continue?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): Gītā jñāna itself is given by Lord incorporeal, not to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, it is told, at the time the jñāna was given had a body which became divya Vedānta(?).
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your interpretation.
Prabhupāda: But another place it is stated that "Cow dung, although it is the stool of an animal, it is pure." Even if you apply in an impure place, you become purified. Now, this is superficially contradicting. In one place it is said that "The stool of an animal is impure. As soon as you touch, you have to be purified," and another place it is said that "Cow dung is pure." So according to our knowledge, it is contradictory.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But those who are followers of the Vedas, they are accepting. Is it not, cow dung, pure? Cow dung pure, it is not accepted by the followers of Vedas?
Guest: That is.
Prabhupāda: And if you analyze chemically, you'll find the cow dung contains all antiseptic properties.
Guest: Yes, one must try to realize it...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that... That... One Dr. Ghosh, professor of medical college, Lal Mohan Ghosh, he... I was medically connected in my previous life. So that Lal Mohan Ghosh analyzed it, and, it is his statement, it is full of, I mean to say, antiseptic properties. So Vedic statements, even sometimes you find it is contradictory, but if you analyze scrutinizingly, you find it is correct.
Prof. Kotovsky: But maybe...
Prabhupāda: There may be some exceptions, but, I mean to say, just like the cow dung is stool—this is an exception—but why this exception is accepted, that if you scientifically examine, analyze, you find it is correct?
Prof. Kotovsky: That is due to analyze. That's right. That's from common sense point of view.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Authorized. That people will refer to our books. So we have to very cautiously print our literatures. It is not ordinary literature, fiction, or something, story. Just like Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. They are not ordinary. literature. Without any four defects of human frailties. Bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsa, also... We are following those literatures. So our writing should be so authorized that in future one may not find any fault, contradiction. We shall have to, cautiously. The ideas are given there now... In future of course, it requires that we shall increase (indistinct). But for the present, we have to push on this movement with positive, I mean to say, conviction, that here is God. God is neither dead, nor every one of you is God, nor is He imperson. God is a person and we give you His name, address, father's name, activities. Here is God. So, we have to (indistinct). So if you have got any doubt about it, then you cannot do it. If you have got any doubt that whether Kṛṣṇa is positive God or (indistinct) then you cannot do it. That is the first qualification. If you are yourself not convinced, how you can convince others? This is our propaganda. This is our mission. (indistinct). Whether you are all convinced on this point? That here is positive God. What is your opinion? So far I am concerned, I have no opinion, convinced. (laughter). Therefore, I am pushing on. It is a fact. I am pushing on because I am pushing on fact, not fiction. That much I am personally convinced. Whenever there is somebody says, "You believe". "No, I don't believe, it is fact." Any press reporter, that press reporter.
Guest (2): How does this tie in with the other thing, saying that if you are destined to get something, you will get it. But now you are saying, "If you want it you'll get it." These two seem to be contradictory.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... Not contradiction. You have created your destiny. You have got a certain type of body. So you must enjoy and suffer. And again, if you want something, you'll be offered another body. What is the difficulty to understand? Now you wanted something; you have got a particular type of body. You finish it. Now you want something more, you'll be... "Give me another type of body." Similarly, if you want Kṛṣṇa, you'll be given a type of body where you can go to Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): I see. So you are saying that if you ask for something now, you may not immediately get it. You may get it in another birth.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. Just like these children. If he says, "Give me one boy." Is it possible? He has to wait. (laughter) Suppose a girl is married. If the girl says, "Give me immediately boy," is it possible? When she's married there will be. Wait.
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. You cannot imitate. That is explained in Bhāgavata, that those who are īśvara, those who are empowered, they will do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order. "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. If you say that "Jesus Christ ate meat," admitting that, in what condition he ate meat, if you do not know, then Jesus Christ is contradicting his statement. He's eating himself meat, and he's advising others not to kill. Do you think Jesus Christ is contradicting?
Bob Cohen: No.
Prabhupāda: He cannot do that. That, that is real faith in Jesus, that he cannot do that. So "Why he has eaten meat, he knows, but he has asked me not to kill. I have to follow it." That is real Christianity. You are not Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate. He has sacrificed his life for God. Can you do that? So why you (indistinct) imitate Jesus Christ? You are imitating Jesus Christ for eating meat.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In the past, you say, in the past the life came out of matter. Why you again say in the future? What is this theory? You have already committed that the life began from matter. That is past, "began." Then why you say now again "future?" Then where is the beginning? Eh? Why this contradiction? If life began from matter, that is past. That is in the past. Then why do you say again future? What is the answer? Is it not contradiction?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. That misses the whole point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is whole, wholesale nonsense, wholesale nonsense. You are expecting the fact in the future, still you say it began in the past. Just see the contradiction.
Devotee: Yes. (Someone hits golf ball.)
Golfers: Fore, fore!
Prabhupāda: So contradiction means childish. Contradiction is not scientist. Contradiction is childish.
Prabhupāda: Anthropology. It is a false theory, and upon this so many universities are spending money, professors. Thousands. Rascal theory. You see. In this way, they're wasting money. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32).
Karandhara: They always have to revise their theories because about every few years they find something new which contradicts everything they have said before.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their intelligence.
Brahmānanda: And they think that's progress.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Progress in one sense. Because they're rascals, making little progress.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Advancing in the wrong direction.
Prabhupāda: But the real progress is that when they will understand that: "We are rascals." That will be real progress, when they come to understand that: "We are all fools and rascals." That will be real progress. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented Himself that: "My Guru Mahārāja found me a rascal number one. Yes." That is real progress.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't mat... Therefore they're all madmen. You can speak in your own way. I'll speak in my own way and another fool thinks that both of them are scientists. They do not agree. Still he's scientist. Just see. Cheaters and the cheated. Somebody's cheating and somebody's becoming cheated. The whole society's the combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. I see both of them, they do not agree. Just like they have rejected religion because two religionists, they do not agree. So why not these rascal scientists? They do not agree. Just see. They are so fool. But still they are after that. Their modern people they have rejected religion because they say that one religionist does not agree with another religionist. So there is no... Skepticism. So why not about the scientists? Just see. Everywhere you will find contradiction. Therefore anyone... and we are find out this contradiction because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Others cannot find out. We are challenging scientists, philosophers, although we are teeny person, because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, who is detecting their follies? Nobody. The scientist's follies, the philosopher follies, their contradiction... A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. We have got simple formulas in the śāstras. Simply on the basis of those formulas... Whole Vedic literature is like that. Just like Āyurveda, Āyurveda or astrology. Everything is like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is the desire of the spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). Freedom is given. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you want, you can take." Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Everything is freedom.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then why is it in the Vaivarta Purāṇa, after traveling 8,400,000 species of life, we get this human form of life? Is that contradiction with the...?
Prabhupāda: No. Because in the lower form of life, the progress is by the laws of nature, and in the human form of life, you get consciousness development. Therefore you have got discretion. The other forms, they have no discretion, one after another.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. My point being the... Some human beings, they come without traveling through these 8,400,000 species.
Prabhupāda: Then he can come.
Karandhara: Prabhupāda, we should start going back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Your work, and supervision-higher authorities.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is completely in contradiction with Darwin's theory.
Prabhupāda: Darwin is a rascal. What is his theory? We kick on your face. That's all. That is our philosophy. The more we kick on Darwin's face, the more advanced in spiritual consciousness. He has killed the whole civilization, rascal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even all the scientists now, the present scientists, their arguments are based on Darwin's early theories.
Prabhupāda: What they are...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That life started from matter and is evolving from the uni-cellular organisms to the multi-cellular organisms. So that means they are saying that there was no higher species at the beginning of creation.
Prabhupāda: Nonsense. So why there is now higher species? And the lower species also. As we see at the present moment, there is the most intellectual person and the most foolish ass also... So why do we see all the things simultaneously? Why ass is not abolished? What is their answer? So similarly, formerly also there was.
Haṁsadūta: And similarly religion is one. Because God is one, His religion, because religion means law of God. Whatever He speaks, it must be the same everywhere. Either in the Bible, Koran or the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately we are making so many differentiations or distinctions or contradictions. But actually on principle, there is only one religion. If we actually understand religion, the word of God, law of God, there can't be two religions. Just like mathematics is one.
Guest (1): I do feel that. It's because I do feel that so very strongly, I cannot feel impelled to give allegiance to any sect at all. It's repugnant to me.
Haṁsadūta: Sectarianism is the great enemy of...
Guest (1): It is, it's a dreadful thing.
Prabhupāda: From practical life, just like world's principal religion, Christianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Mohammedanism also, the principle of not killing is there, every religion. Buddhism, they're completely for not killing. No circumstances, at any circumstances killing is not allowed. Similarly, in Vedic religion, killing is not allowed, but at circumstances, it is allowed. Similarly Christianity, they also say, "Thou shall not kill." Mohammedans also, they allow killing, but circumstantially. So the principle of killing is forbidden every religion, every religion.
Prabhupāda: The Americans say?
Banker: No, no, that is what they say here. Especially in my bank. Our clerks are the top five per cent of the nation's income earners, five thousand rupees or more a year, near the top five percent. But they still say that they're poor and happy. But then once a year they forget that when they ask us for more money. I don't understand it. Contradictory philosophy.
Prabhupāda: There are two things. One material, one spiritual. Spiritually, India is happy, those who are actually spiritualists. But materially, India is unhappy. Spiritually, even if you still go in the interior of village, poor man, living in a cottage, he is taking bath three times and doing his professional work, a cultivator, having little food, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are happy actually. They have got their family, husband, wife, some children. If one lives spiritual life, he is actually happy. Materially, nobody can be happy. In your country, although there is enough facility for material enjoyment, actually they are not happy. Otherwise why in your country the hippies are coming out? They are coming from respectable, rich parents, nation, but they have given up their home, their father's opulence, mother's opulence. That I have seen practically. Practically all my students... Here, Brahmānanda, his father, at least he was a big industrialist, mother. But he did not like. He joined this movement.
Prabhupāda: Then here is higher and lower.
Guest (1): No, no.
Prabhupāda: Why "no"? One time you say, "No..." No, no, this is contradictory.
Guest (1): Yes, sir, this is part (indistinct) higher and lower.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Gradations, you can use words.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that will exist always.
Guest (1): Always?
Prabhupāda: Always exist.
Prabhupāda: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?
Umāpati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.
Prabhupāda: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?
Umāpati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So...
Yaśomatīnandana: A sincere atheist...
Umāpati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupāda: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: Transcendental perfection is tested by mundane instruments.
Hṛdayānanda: Boy, that's contradiction.
Bali Mardana: They don't ever use the word "trans..." They just call it "TM."
Prajāpati: (break) ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, is what's called "linguistic analysis."
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prajāpati: So they don't want to find out really what God is, but simply what do you mean when you use the word "God".
Prabhupāda: We mean God is great. That's all. There is no need of linguistic analysis. One word is sufficient. God is great.
Umāpati: They fear theocracy. They fear being ruled by a priestly class. That is a very old fear in the west.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. But if the politicians, administration, trust in God, that becomes religious. How they separate? Currency note is economic problem. So how they are mixing with God? They are contradictory. You cannot separate God from any field of activities. And religion, they do not know what is the meaning of religion. Our definition of religion is to abide by the order of God. So does it mean, the politicians they do not abide by the orders of God? Then why do they write, "In god we trust"?
Karandhara: Well before, traditionally...
Prabhupāda: Not before or now. What we are speaking on the actual fact, that how they are writing, "In God we trust." As soon as you bring in God, that is religion. That is general meaning.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Some 30th or 31st April. So if the government wants prayer, why they have prohibited in the schools? This is contradiction. Point out. This law was introduced due to inexperience. Now they are coming to experience that it has not helped us. Therefore they are introducing prayer. So why don't you take it?
Umāpati: We should ride with that. We should try to get in on that.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise what is the use of introducing prayer again? They have experienced that this without prayer, things have failed. That's a fact. You take this point.
Umāpati: Yes. The schools are falling apart. Delinquency and there's lots of criminal activity amongst the children in school. And even the teachers are walking out of the classrooms because of the violence in the schools and the lack of communication with their students.
Prabhupāda: No, in India, in examination hall there is regularly police. Regularly. I have seen it. So what is the value of this education? There is regular police. Now there is no ordinary guard.
Prabhupāda: You said. You said purity of the soul. That means there must be the contradictory: impurity of soul. Then now we have to distinguish which is impure, which is pure.
Devotee: How can we distinguish?
Guest (1): In the absolute sense the soul is always pure, there is no impurity. But when man is in ignorance, as māyā... Śrī Kṛṣṇa's yogamāyā, His power of delusion, He can...., He makes you think, He makes you see impurity. You see suffering in the world.
Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the māyā comes?
Prabhupāda: This is very difficult for the Māyāvādī philosophers to answer, that everyone is God but when God becomes ignorant? And what kind of God He is that He forgets and becomes ignorant? In māyā. So māyā becomes better than God? Is it not? Then what is the definition of God? So many things. But they cannot answer. Just like you said that when you become ignorant (indistinct) God, how it happens? (indistinct). God, how God can be ignorant? And how can God become forgetful? It is contradictory. Then what kind of God he is, that he becomes ignorant sometimes?
Guru dāsa: And if it's Kṛṣṇa's yogamāyā that makes us forgetful and makes God forgetful, that means Kṛṣṇa's God.
Guest (1): No, no, He's the Lord of māyā. He, Kṛṣṇa's pure.
Guru dāsa: Kṛṣṇa's the Lord of everything.
Guest (1): Yes, of course. Kṛṣṇa never forgets.
Guru dāsa: Māyā's also Kṛṣṇa's servant.
Guest (1): Yes, of course.
Prabhupāda: Now (indistinct) That's right. If Kṛṣṇa does not forget, then Kṛṣṇa is God, isn't it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To sacrifice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That if you want to eat meat and chicken, then you first of all sacrifice before that deity. So at least they'll be restricted from eating meat purchased from slaughterhouse. But this rascal civilization, one side they're advertising "Stop cruelty to animals," another side they're opening unrestricted slaughterhouse. Just see. One side they're allowing marriage of woman every week, another side contraceptive. Just see their contradiction. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...there is animal sacrifice in the church. Is there any such pre...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jews, they have got.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That was one of the things that Jesus was against.
Prabhupāda: Shocked. Yes.
Prabhupāda: This Ramakrishna Mission.
Dr. Patel: You are a guru. So I don't want to contradict. I am going. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Then you have got some selection of your own.
Dr. Patel: I have no selection.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: I have to tell the truth. You may like or not like. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I have to say the truth. I am saying all over the world.
Guest (1): Many religious institutions, they welcome the rich peoples. Those who are coming by cars, and those who are coming gorgeously, and they are donating much to the institutions, they are welcomed by the people, management of these institutions. And this is your version. It is just contradictory. I accept your version. It is quite, quite right. And I hope our institution must do not like that. This ISKCON must not do like that. The well-to-do peoples who come, they'll get more... (break) ...more receptions, more congratulations. I request it must be your direction that our institution ISKCON must not do like this. And it is your... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: But one, one thing is that we are not living like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughter)
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was ideal sannyāsī, and He was living apart from any material attachment. But we have to do preaching work. We have to construct temple, comfortable temple. So who will pay for that?
Guest (1): Then your version...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to sometimes do that. Just like that woman, that chaste woman.
Prabhupāda: We have black also. Some are black. Some are... In Texas, Dallas we have got black. Kālachanda. Contradiction. Chandjī or Kālajī.
Dr. Patel: What about starting a school of Sanskrit here? There is a... I have a... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...have place to stay.
Dr. Patel: Never a place. But in school means... I mean, these boys, you miss...
Prabhupāda: Now we are introducing Hindi, Gujarati and Maharati, speaking. Where is Manasvī? He has gone?
Devotee: Yes.
Dr. Patel: No, but they must talk with people in their own language. They, even sometimes they don't understand me talking English. Of course, I... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...one has to study grammar for twelve years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like...
Guest (5): You say He has not created. Now you say He has created...
Prabhupāda: No, He...
Guest (5): Contradicting yourself.
Prabhupāda: Then because...
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati)
Guest (5): Sorry about that.
Prabhupāda: Let me explain it. Let me explain it. Suppose you are ordered by the judge that you should be hanged. So it is certainly his creation, your hanging. But is the judge enemy of you that he has ordered you to be hanged? You have created such thing that you should be hanged. This is the answer. (break) ...situation that you must be hanged. But the order must come from the judge. So externally the judge is hanging you. But actually he's not hanging you. You are hanging yourself. This is the way. (break) ...hanged, there is no choice. Is it not? But still, you created the position of being hanged. That is the position. When the judge has ordered that "He should be hanged," there is no more choice.
Prabhupāda: Bhayaṁ ca abhayaṁ ca, contradictory, yes. That means all contradictions can be adjusted in Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel:
- maharṣayaḥ sapta pūrve
- catvāro manavas tathā
- mad-bhāvā mānasā jātā
- yeṣāṁ loke imāḥ prajāḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes, "The whole prajā, population, they are born of Me."
Dr. Patel:
- etāṁ vibhūtiṁ yogaṁ ca
- mama yo vetti tattvataḥ
- so 'vikalpena yogena
- yujyate nātra saṁśayaḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes, tattvataḥ, to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ.
Dr. Patel: Rightly.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But just like Kṛṣṇa says, "They are just like moon." Just see. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśi. So śaśi means the moon. Moon is like one of the stars. So if you say the stars are sūrya, then there is contradiction. How the moon and the sun can be equal? But actually, that is not. According to our Vedic astronomy, there is one sun only in one universe, although there are millions of universes, we cannot count. So there are millions of suns. That is another thing. But within the universe there is only one sun, and by the brilliance of sunshine, all these stars and moons are glittering. Just like moon shining, being reflected by the sun, similarly, all the stars they are glittering, being reflected by the sun, not that all of them are different suns. This theory is refuted.
Prabhupāda: Then why you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? You can chant any name.
Dr. Patel: No, but we want to chant Kṛṣṇa's name. That's all. That is the purest.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is contradictory. You said... Sometimes you say that Kṛṣṇa has got many names...
Dr. Patel: If I say, "Christ, Christ, Christ," it is, also goes to Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): But do you think all the medicines are equal?
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes, there are some potent medicines, all are equal. And there is Kṛṣṇa and there is Christ and there is Bhagavān and there is Viṣṇu and there is Rāma. The same medicine with multiple names. Okay?
Indian man (4): Well, then it is the same disease.
Dr. Patel: All the disease, one medicine.
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you prescribe a particular...
Dr. Patel: Because this is supernatural. This is not ordinary medicine. This is not the medicine of earthly things. This is the medicine of super things. That is why one name, all. What do you want to say in this interpretation? Because we are not dealing with earth here. We are dealing with spiritual things. And... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...sane body cannot prescribe one medicine for everyone.
Prabhupāda: ...contradiction of the law of gravitation. According to our śāstra the planets are held on the hood of Ananta. He is carrying. But they say they are staying on account of law of gravitation.
Yaśomatīnandana: That is Kṛṣṇa's supreme energy as you explain, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimaya, that is water, He creates, He can do anything. The scientists may make any laws.
Prabhupāda: No. But they cannot use that law. They cannot float any other thing in the air by this law. Still they say, "There is law of gravitation."
Girirāja: "They were also informed of the external..." (break)
Prabhupāda: He have to accept so much dowry, how many thousands horses?
Girirāja: Fifteen thousand.
Prabhupāda: So who will take dowry like this? (laughing) And how many? Four hundred elephants. Who can maintain four hundred elephants? Nowadays horses and elephants are not selling because nobody can maintain.
Yogeśvara: He respects the Vaiṣṇava philosophy because it is substantial. It doesn't contradict itself.
Karandhara: So then the... If the Vaiṣṇava philosophy has a systematic logic, then integrity would dictate that we have to surrender or accept that logic. If a logic is true, we can't stand apart from it and simply observe it. We have to accept it ourselves.
Church Representative: (French)
Bhagavān: You are right on the brink of Absolute Truth. Don't run away. (laughs)
Yogeśvara: He says that even though he has a great interest in this discussion, because he has prior commitments, he's unable to stay.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all...
Prabhupāda: But you have got this word. Why you speak all these contradictory things?
American Man: No. I say that I cannot speak of God because it is a word...
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know what is God. First of all accept.
American Man: It is light. I speak of the light.
Prabhupāda: Then, then you know God. You say either way, that you know... Sometimes you say you do not know; sometimes you say you know.
American Man: No, no, no.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, but this is a very good example because the dream of the tiger comes very often. And it always means that you are pursued by some of your inner instincts, yourself. So you discover in the image of the tiger something which is not right in yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience is also material. That is not spiritual experience. That experience is going on continually so long we are materially attached. Because in the material world we are constantly changing our body. Your experience in childhood is different from the experience at this time. So as we are changing our body, we are getting different experiences, and all those experiences are photographed within the mind. And they sometimes come out and make an intermixture, and we see dreams and so many contradictory things. This is going on, mental speculation. That is hovering on the mental plane. That is not spiritual plane.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Keep Bhagavad-gītā in hand, yes. That's it.
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): So he is saying that this material world is a combination of so many different elements, intelligence, so on and so forth. And in the center of all of this, the essence is that which is eternal. And this eternal thing cannot have any name because then it would be limited, and that would be a contradiction. And also it has no form.
Prabhupāda: No, that eternity, that is nice, that the material world is temporary, and the eternity is spiritual. That is clear understanding. Material elements, just like earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, ego, intelligence, and the spiritual element is which is utilizing these material elements. Do you admit this?
Guest: Si.
Vīrabāhu: They have many contradiction because I learned also that...
Prabhupāda: No, what is contradiction? Everyone is being controlled. Where is contradiction?
Vīrabāhu: One day they say one thing; one day they say something else.
Prabhupāda: That means rascal. That means rascal. One day something, one day..., that means the rascals. Just like yesterday or day before yesterday, "Maybe, perhaps." And "You cannot talk because you have no knowledge. You say, 'Perhaps, maybe.' What is the value of your knowledge? Don't talk."
Vīrabāhu: There was this great scientist. His name is Nernst. He said that everything was infinite. That the universe, everything, was eternal, that this universe was eternal. So he got very mad, very vexed because another scientist was telling him, this was, a young scientist was proving that the universe has a time, a specific time, and it will finish.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that does not require a great scientist. Anything in this material world which has got a beginning, it has got end. We can experience from our body. The body has got a beginning; therefore it must have an end. Anything which has beginning, there must be end. This is our experience. You take anything material. This tree, it has got a beginning; it has got end.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so therefore... This kind of leader we are following, contradictory. That is our misfortune.
Guest (1): Swamiji we are not following any person but we do see the realities all around the world.
Prabhupāda: Realities... If you have no knowledge, what do you know about reality? If you have no knowledge, then what is reality, what is non-reality, how can you know? If your knowledge is imperfect, then how you can say reality? Suppose beyond this wall you cannot see, and how you can speak of the reality beyond this wall? That is misfortune. You do not see what is there clearly, and you are speaking on the reality. Your senses are defective. What do you know about reality?
Guest (1): In the spiritual level yes, we are very blind.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is reality.
Prabhupāda: How vague ideas. And they are passing on philosophy. "He" contradicts. You say "He." And again He is impersonal.
Carol: At the emotional level it's a very personal...
Prabhupāda: Why should you emotional? You are a philosopher. You should talk very nicely.
Carol: Talk?
Amogha: He said, why be emotional? You are a philosopher, so talk very nicely.
Carol: Oh. (surprised) I don't philosophize.
Amogha: What she just said was that He is impersonal, but He incorporates personal features?
Carol: If God is in everything, then the personal attributes must be part of Him, it, whatever.
Amogha: She says personal attributes are part of God.
Carol: But God is not just limited to...
Prabhupāda: You have no idea of God.
Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?
Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?
Śrutakīrti: That was actually the Ten Commandments. That was given by God.
Gaṇeśa: Given to Moses.
Śrutakīrti: That was given to Moses by God. The Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?
Śrutakīrti: Well, Christ enforced it.
Prabhupāda: Then on the whole it comes that his instructions are sometimes contradictory.
Paramahaṁsa: Not only that but they say that... Usually when it comes right down to it, the Bible has gone through so many interpretations and so many changes in the last two thousand years that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very difficult.
Paramahaṁsa: People..., I've talked to professors who know the original Hebrew and the original tongues that the Bible was written in. They say that is has changed so much that you can hardly...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are changing. Just like he said, "Thou shall not kill." They are now changing, "Thow shall not commit murder." They are doing that.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.
Prabhupāda: It is contradictory. One mans want poison; you give him poison. One man wants food, you give him food. Then what is the standard of your food or poison? Then everything is required. Why do you bother?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, we have to draw the line somewhere.
Prabhupāda: You can do it foolishly. That is another thing. But everything is all right. Poison is all right, and food is all right.
Śrutakīrti: The standard is the person's happiness.
Amogha: Just like now we have come to the point where the different doctors are thinking very seriously of having this mercy killing passed in the courts. When a person becomes too much diseased, actually he would be happier if he was dead, so why not kill him?
Prabhupāda: That is contradictory. He will kill somebody, and he will give life somebody. That is... There is no standard. Everything is all right. Then why do you bother that "This is good"? The same "good" is bad for others.
Prabhupāda: That we can do.
Director: That you can do. As long as they don't contradict your...
Prabhupāda: No. Our principle is this.
Director: I mean a lot of church organizations taking children and...
Prabhupāda: You can see one day. If you kindly come early in the morning and stay one day, you see our activity, how nicely we are doing. And then do the needful.
Director: I don't come here as a person. I'm representing my department.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be...
Director: The fact what you convince me or not is... our society should,... I can only say that we're dealing with very poor people. We tell them what you're doing, and perhaps something can be combined. Or I can say to the minister that it emerged and it goes on from there. And I can go back to my other duties.
Prabhupāda: Then they can give us some contribution per capita for taking care. Then we can invite. We can increase the accommodation. Now we are doing. We have no business, no income. We are selling our books. So our income is limited. Still we invite anyone, come. But if government encourages us, then we can increase the program.
Prabhupāda: So for accident you are spending so much money and energy? All contradictory. There is no even common sense. Still, they will not take the actual fact from the authoritative śāstra. (break) ...nābhijānāti. (break)
Guest (1) (Gentleman): What kind of a sect are you?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Guest (1): Christian what?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious, just tell him.
Bali-mardana: Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (1): Oh.
Prabhupāda: God conscious.
Prabhupāda: Then seeing and not seeing, the same thing? That is, means you see or not see... Is that mean, that seeing or not seeing? This is contradictory. Either you see or you don't see. These are two things. (laughter) But what is this "I see, I don't see"?
Viṣṇujana: For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.
Prabhupāda: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe, conclusion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. (break) ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating? Who has seen? Simply hear from God. He says, "I have created." That's all. But if you challenge, "I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You," then how can you believe? God says, "I have created," so those who are God believers, they will accept that. So what is the use of seeing again, observatory? We trust in God, but don't trust in His word. This is going on. You write in America, "We trust in God," but don't trust in His word. (laughs) Just see. If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe. "No, that we cannot do."
Prabhupāda: So you can find out how rascal he is. Is it not? Do you admit or not? He writes book, and he says, "There is no need of books." He has come to teach, and he says, "There is no need of teacher. Teacher is within." Is he not a rascal?
Sandy Nixon: Well, they say... Those people...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you answer my question. If he says contradictory things, is he not a rascal?
Sandy Nixon: Well, he's contradicting himself.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is a rascal. He does not know how to defend him.
Sandy Nixon: Can the Vedas be taken symbolically as well as literally?
Prabhupāda: As it is. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, not symbolically.
Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is that ingredient or what is that thing which causes faith to develop in one? From someone becoming...
Prabhupāda: Purity. Purity. The more you become pure, the faith is firm.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population why you are inducing "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.
Prabhupāda: But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense satis... When his senses will be satisfied? (aside) Jaya. Relaxation. If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."
Prabhupāda: These are contradictory. You are talking something, you are form, and you say the original talker is formless. How it is possible?
Kartikeya: Sir, you are building building. There is no architect? How in the building there are no architects? Anything that is made must have got an architect or... Whole universe is there
Indian man (3): But none of us... I believe that there is God.
Kartikeya: No, no, but why don't you give a body?
Indian man (3): But why do you give Him a form, actually?
Kartikeya: Because we have got forms. He has got form.
Indian man (3): Just because you have got form, He must also have a form?
Kartikeya: Yes, because we are His reflection; we are His particles.
Indian man (3): No, no, no. We are not His particles. I say it is not...
Prabhupāda: No, no, where you get this idea that formless can give guidance? Where do you get this idea? Where is your experience? Your experience is as soon as there is guidance, there is a form. So how do you get this expe... Why do you talk something which is not within your experience, nobody's experience? As soon as you talk of guidance, there is form.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they complain that "If all men are created equally, then each man will have equal opportunity."
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can become a brāhmaṇa. Equal oppor... We are giving. Any man, he may be caṇḍāla but we give them opportunity: "Come on, you become a brāhmaṇa." We don't deny: "Oh, you are coming from a caṇḍāla family. You cannot become brāhmaṇa." No. We don't say that. We give equal opportunity. (break) ...is that before this movement, really Vedic culture was never broadcast. Therefore they are finding somewhere contradiction, something astonishing. But Vedic culture is meant for the whole world.
Prabhupāda: Redwood trees. One redwood, already seven thousand years old, they told me. So what is the benefit, seven thousand years standing in one place, very long? Hm? What is the benefit? You are trying to prolong life. Very good idea. But what is the use of prolonging life while suffering? One side, you are trying to prolong life; the other side, for acute suffering, one is committing suicide. So why this contradictory proposal?
Harikeśa: Well, only some people commit suicide. As far as I'm concerned, I'm very happy. I have my car, my air conditioner...
Prabhupāda: That means you are fool number one. That means you are fool number one. As soon as you say, "I am happy," it is immediately proved that you are a rascal, fool number one.
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Brahmānanda: That because in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the knowledge there contradicts the mundane scientific knowledge, people who had some faith in Kṛṣṇa become discouraged and turn away from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Let him go away. Don't care for him. Let all the fools go away. There is Bengali proverb, "Instead of maintaining some bad cows, let the cowshed be vacant." We shall prefer the cowshed vacant, no cow, than keeping all bad cows who does not give any milk, create disturbance.
Devotee (8): In our temple...
Prabhupāda: We are giving chance, but we don't want bad cows. We haven't got to agree with their views. They must agree with our views, then they can live. Otherwise let them go away. This is position.
Prabhupāda: They cannot prove. Our proof is already there. They cannot prove. Why don't you take that point, that these rascals, they are contradictory to one another, so they cannot prove. Our proof is already there.
Yaśomatīnandana: That is what we should aim at. We should aim at "You cannot prove your..."
Prabhupāda: You cannot prove. You are contradictory. So why shall I accept you or he? We accept our own proof. That's all. First of all you agree amongst yourselves; then question us. You cannot agree. Why shall I believe you? One says that "He is wrong" and the other says "He is wrong." Now we say "You are both wrong. We reject you." Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yaśomatīnandana: But how can we impress the masses that we are right, the innocent people?
Prabhupāda: They are not historians, rascals. They will believe Mahābhārata. They are not so-called historians, scientists. They still believe in the Vedic standard.
Prabhupāda: Still, he is scientist. He doesn't know. He is rascal, still he is scientist. (laughter) Just see. Contradiction. He doesn't know. Still, he is scientist. One word. He doesn't know anything, but he is scientist. Just see. (Hindi) And we have to hear him—the unfortunate position. We say that "Go for scientific knowledge to a person who knows, who has seen." And this rascal, he says, "I do not know; still, I am scientist." Then what he replied? He doesn't know?
Girirāja: But he's sure that they don't need God to explain it.
Prabhupāda: That he knows, how to deny God. That he is expert. And the newspaper reporter accepted this?
Girirāja: No. He didn't express his point of view, but you could see he wasn't satisfied.
Prabhupāda: That is the position. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: I mean, that you want to, you want to pick up that point, then you are absolutely right, there is no experiment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contradiction. If you say "truth," there is no question of experiment. That I..., try to understand. It is contradiction.
Dr. Patel: By all these jñāni-yogīs, I mean you are a bhakti-yogī, but I talk of jñāna-yogīs.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna-yoga is also truth if you follow. Just like jñānāvasthitā tad gatena manasā. So that is truth. But when there is question of experiment, that is not truth. That is my point.
Dr. Patel: Then they are making experiment in an area which is not already known.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means that that is not truth. So experiment with truth cannot be; this is contradiction.
Dr. Patel: No, you are right that way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Experiment means repeat, with regard to the matter of finding out the truth. Not with the truth itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the word means, "experiment with truth," that is contradiction. There cannot be any experiment with truth. Truth is truth.
Dr. Patel: Truth cannot be experimented upon.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...
Dr. Patel: That I quite agree with you, and I become (indistinct). But so far as the method of finding out truth, that I experiment with.
Prabhupāda: That can be there, that is another thing.
Prabhupāda: It is contradiction.
Lokanātha: Their experiments are only speculation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtanānanda: One wants to experiment, it means they don't know what is truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there is experiment, there is no truth. And if there is truth, there is no experiment.
Kīrtanānanda: One simply accepts the truth.
Prabhupāda: Truth, we accept or not accept: truth is truth. Hm? There is a father. That is a truth. You may not know who is your father, that is another thing. But this is a fact, there is father.
Haṁsadūta: On the one hand, they say that the creation was a chance, accident, and on the other hand, they're trying to find the law of nature. So this is a contradiction.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And the law. Just see. And law, law, nature is not giving him chance. And he's depending on chance theory. He's so unfortunate rascal that he does not get even the chance. So discuss these things in different ways and issue a small pamphlet in Russian language. Or any language. Doesn't matter.
Harikeśa: Oh, in Russian!
Prabhupāda: They're the greatest atheists.
Harikeśa: Oh, that would be.... A dialectic spiritualism pamphlet in Russian. That's big. Russian. (break)
Prabhupāda: The land is very nice. All flat, flat land. Hundreds of miles.
Haṁsadūta: .... But on the other hand, they claim that there are certain laws which govern this material nature. This is a complete contradictory position.
Hariśauri: A law means there has to be some compliance to a higher authority.
Prabhupāda: So discuss all these nonsense propositions.
Harikeśa: Somebody...? (break)
Prabhupāda: He has clearly proved that Darwin is a fool. He's wrong. He has not written the word "fool," but he's wrong. (end)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everyone is eternal.
Acyutānanda: It is contradictory then. Nityo nityanānāṁ. You cannot say that one thing is more eternal than another thing.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the point. Everyone is eternal.
Acyutānanda: So how can one be more eternal than...
Prabhupāda: As God is eternal, so you are also eternal.
Acyutānanda: Then why the distinction...?
Prabhupāda: But because you have accepted this material body, you are foolishly thinking that you are not eternal. Otherwise, as God is eternal, you are also eternal.
Prabhupāda: Lower stage not.... That is.... You are in the lower stage. You cannot understand. But what He says, that is right. Mamaivāṁśaḥ, sanātana, "eternally amara." It is not that made aṁśa at the present time. Sanātana. From.... From the very beginning.
Acyutānanda: Then it is contradictory.
Prabhupāda: No contradictory. It is not contradictory. He says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), that "These jīvas, they are eternally My aṁśa." It is not that because now in the material world it has become fragmented.
Acyutānanda: How can there be any truth outside the Lord?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Acyutānanda: How can there be any truth separate from the Lord, like a gold ring separate from the mine?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but whatever the Lord says, that is truth. Not your statement is truth.
Acyutānanda: No, just like if I say...
Prabhupāda: You cannot say.
Prabhupāda: He was in, several times in embarrassment. One friend in Delhi, Mr. Gupta, he told many things about him. He was patronizing him. In those days, when he was not very rich, he had, he gave him 25,000 rupees, that Mr. Gupta. (break) Ācchā?
Acyutānanda: I felt uncomfortable. He was clicking his teeth and moving his hands and talking very quickly. It was very uncomfortable just to be in his presence. I was very nervous. He actually contradicted himself. I was saying we should be respected in all Hindu temples. He says, "Yes, you are Hindus." He says, "Jains and Buddhists, they are also Hindus." I said, "How is that?" He says, "Who is Buddha?" I said, "He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." He says, "No, aside from that, he is the son of a kṣatriya." I said, "Then you are bringing it back to birth again." And then he started groping for words and avoiding it. They want to make a unity of Hindus so that they can always sway elections, so that Mohammedan and Christians do not change the election.
Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.
Prabhupāda: Money is the strength all over, all over the world. America is prestigious—why? They have got money. So we, I have got American disciples. Why shall I not have money? If America, a guru of the Americans remains poor, it is contradictory.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It cannot be.
Acyutānanda: (break) ... Kṛṣṇa books, Gītā, Nectar of Devotion, Īśopaniṣad, Bhāgavatam volumes.
Yaśodānandana: This Nectar of Devotion is a big seller.
Acyutānanda: And the science..., Dāmodara Svarūpa's, everyone taking.
Yaśodānandana: Also the Īśopaniṣad.
Prabhupāda: What do they say about, after reading?
Acyutānanda: We... Well, we presented that "If anyone doesn't believe in God, you must show this book."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: According to time, circumstances. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, niyataṁ kuru karma tvam: "Always be engaged in your prescribed work." And, at last, He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Now we have to adjust. That is not contradiction. That is suitable to the time and circumstance. Karma is also recommended in the Vedas. Karma-kāṇḍa. There are three divisions: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kaṇḍa and upāsanā-kāṇḍa. Trayi. Therefore Veda is known as, what is called, trio. The trio word has come from "trayi."
Madhudviṣa: You have also said, regarding that, that Kṛṣṇa gives us the conclusion of the those three processes in the Bhagavad-gītā, that karma is concluded, yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi (BG 9.27), and jñāna is concluded, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), and yoga is concluded yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). So is there some conclusive..., like Kṛṣṇa says, concluding, sarva-dharmān parityajya. Is there some conc...?
Prabhupāda: That is the real end. You have to become the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Either you go through karma or jñāna or yoga, it doesn't matter. The ultimate aim is how to reach Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. (break) Arjuna achieved the favor of Kṛṣṇa by fighting, by killing.
Rāmeśvara: To train him in the methods of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means authority. You are teaching him to accept the authority. And you are teaching against authority. Everything contradictory. One side, contraceptive; one side, illicit sex. And the.... But Vedic civilization says, "All right, as soon as woman is widow, let her remain as a saintly woman—no more sex." But "No, you can marry and you can have sex hundred times daily, but use contraceptive." Is that civilization? To train one woman not to have any more sex, this is also contraceptive. And another way that "You can have sex any amount, as many times as you like. Take this contraceptive." Whose civilization better? And you call him to be trained up to accept authority and teach him, "Don't accept any authority." Is that education? Nonsense.
Prabhupāda: What he has given up? (laughter) What he has given up? You say he has given up; what he has given up? "I have given up everything, but I remain proprietor." What is this, given up? There is not, no "given up." The contradiction's there. One who has given up, what he has given up? He has not given up his personality. Then what he has given up? In Bengali it says that rasamba sataya chaibe tyāga,(?) (indistinct) that "In the room, whatever is there, it is yours. But I lock it, I keep the key." (laughter) (Bengali) "I have given up." What you have given up? You have kept the keys. So we have to accept that he's given up? This is another foolishness. (break) So the first question will be, "You rascal, what you have got in your possession that you are giving up? If you have something, then you can give up. What you have got, first of all tell me. You haven't got anything.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you say we find these instructions more clear?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You say that there's no point of difference, but then you say that his instruction is more clear. There's some contradiction.
Bhūrijana: It's just the emphasis that was given to hari... to chanting. For myself, I know I was off track and I know that in my heart I built up an enmity toward your disciples and thinking that they..., that by their distributing books they were making people angry at Kṛṣṇa and...
Prabhupāda: That is real point. That is real point.
Prabhupāda: Man will dictate law according to his own convenience. Well what about the trees? They are also living entity. You are cutting the trees and making it ugly, because they have no voice to protest. So why man should be given the chance?
Devotee (2): Most people think that if it's very confusing, and if their philosophy is very contradictory, then it's very profound. They think that if a philosophy is confusing...
Prabhupāda: Jugglery.
Devotee (2): ...or contradictory, then it is...
Prabhupāda: The word is jugglery. The word is jugglery. If you present something with jugglery of words, "Oh, it is very deep thought." (laughter)
Devotee (2): Because they could not understand it, they think that...
Prabhupāda: Nobody understands it.
Rāmeśvara: Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Kṛṣṇa has unlimited energies. Yesterday you were explaining in your garden to that priest that Kṛṣṇa, He says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the father of all living entities." And you were saying, "Who can challenge this or deny it?" Now someone can say that there is contradiction, if there is some contradiction in Kṛṣṇa's statement, therefore...
Prabhupāda: Who can deny? Who can contradict this? That is my challenge. The contradiction is not valid. Who can contradict it? That is my challenge.
Rāmeśvara: Well, say in some philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Just like a father, a real father can say, "I am the father." Who can challenge? Father is one. Who can? Nobody can say "No, you are not father, he's father." No. The real father is father. Father cannot be replaced.
Rāmeśvara: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose real father says, "I am the father of this boy." Who will challenge it?
Rāmeśvara: Someone who does not believe my father.
Prabhupāda: That means he's a rascal. But father cannot be changed. He does not know; he challenges, that's all. How the father can be changed? Father is one.
Hari-śauri: There are so many apparent contradictions in our life-style, the karmīs are just baffled. They see us living in a big nice house and enjoying such nice grounds and everything, and then we tell them we get up at three-thirty and take a cold bath and do so many..., and we don't drink or smoke or anything. They can't understand.
Satsvarūpa: The Sunday newspaper here a month ago did a very big story, the whole front cover. And it was called "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness: Salvation or Slavery."
Hari-śauri: That was that article that you saw in Honolulu.
Mādhavānanda: These are our two biggest book distributors of the women-Lekhaśravantī and mother Jagadhātrī.
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Mādhavānanda: They claim that when we chant, we hypnotize ourselves.
Prabhupāda: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing method.
Scheverman: Yes, we certainly agree, no contradiction on.... I think it's very, very important—we do not see you in competition with our...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no competition. It is a science. Science is to...
Scheverman: We rejoice when we see people coming to the Lord God, wherever it may be and however it may be.
Prabhupāda: Do you have the passage there?
Jayādvaita: Yes. "Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination."
Scheverman: Yes, we too see sin as an obstacle to communication and relationship with the Lord God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this... There are two kinds of men already described, daiva asura eva ca. These two kinds of activities will go on. This is material world. You cannot find out cent percent perfect man. That is not possible. There are a class of men, imperfect, will be there. But it is being described who is imperfect and who is perfect. That you have to select. You cannot clear this material world of imperfect persons. That is not possible. There will be remain, but you must know who is perfect and who is imperfect. And make your choice, whether you want to remain imperfect or want to make progress to become perfect. That is up to you.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It seems almost like a contradiction in one sense, that prabhavanti, that they flourish and at the same time, ksayaya.
Prabhupāda: Prabhavanty, materially, materially. Just like when you go to a modern city and say, "Oh, how developed," prabhavanty. But what kind of prabhavanty? That is next word, jagato 'hitāḥ, to destroy this world. So their prabhavanty in the opposite direction. That is not prabhavanty actually. Prabhavanty in the material sense, but what is the purpose, what is the end? Jagato 'hitāḥ. There are two kinds of progress, to hell, to heaven.
Prabhupāda: So you cannot stop the suffering. You are unable. You are also suffering from the same disease. So don't say that jagat mithyā. If they are suffering, that's a fact. Then how do you say it is mithyā, it is false? If it is mithyā, then why you are affected by the suffering? There are so many questions. That means not realization. Contradictory. If you feel the suffering, then why you call it mithyā? It is fact. Why do you say it is mithyā? That means you have no realization. You are accepting suffering as mithyā. We say suffering is not mithyā, it is fact, but if you want to save from suffering, then you get out of this material world. We don't say that, that suffering is mithyā or this world is mithyā. We don't say that. We are offering this flower to Kṛṣṇa, not as mithyā; it is a means of service. Why shall I say it is mithyā? By offering... Kṛṣṇa says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). By offering a little flower.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, He is called Param Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman, but He is Param Brahman. That is accepted by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ brahma pavitram.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "In this chapter it will also be explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible; one is superior and the other subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly that 'I am also the knower of the field of activity.' One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge."
Prabhupāda: He says "I am also." Ksetrajñaṁ ca. Ca means "also." They are two. Individual, kṣetrajñaḥ, and the collective, kṣetrajñaṁ ca. There is kṣetrajñam, I am also there. They are two, not one. Ksetrajñaṁ cāpi ca api, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi. As soon as there is ca, "and," then there are two. Not one. One is subordinate and one is supreme. Therefore He is addressed, paraṁ brahma. Brahma..., jīva is also Brahman. But He is Param Brahman. Paramātmā: Jīva is also ātmā, but He is Paramātmā. Parameśvara: jīva is also īśvara, but He is Parameśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). This is Vedic version. There are īśvaras, controllers, many controllers, but parama controller, Parameśvara, is Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they do not accept what it is all said in the Vedas. They accept something, and they reject something.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes they say that whatever they say must be supplemented from the Vedas. It's contradiction.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They support the proposition that in different Vedas different things are stressed, therefore...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, you should accept Bhagavad-gītā, the summarized Veda. Or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Or Vedānta-sūtra.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a mystery, why they don't accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Because they cannot poke their nose there. Then it will be cut off. (laughter) But still they are attempting to cheat by reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: So this is nonsense. Mercy killing. Killing mercy. (laughs) Just see. The action is killing, and that is his mercy. This is their mercy. All contradictory. Killing by mercy? Mercy is killing?
Hari-śauri: There's an example that's just going up to the courts now. There's one family, their daughter was being supported by one machine, so one day they went in early and pulled out the plugs. So now they are being taken to court. They stopped the machine because she'd been in a coma for so long, so they just pulled out the plugs and everything, the machine. So that's what they call mercy killing. They don't like the doctors just to keep them there uselessly.
Rāmeśvara: But then they want to kill the old people. This mercy killing, they think that "An old man is suffering, so let us kill him."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think if someone dies in their sleep, they are very lucky.
Prabhupāda: It is dangerous to die here.
Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: They do not understand that we are talking on the spiritual platform and they are on the material bodily platform. Therefore they find contradiction. One has to be little sober to understand this movement and what platform we are speaking. They are accustomed, on the same example, hammering the bricks. And when they see others, they are not hammering the bricks, they think they are different. They cannot understand that life can be without hammering the bricks. Karmīs. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the word mūḍha, that has been explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī, karmīs, these mūḍhas. They cannot understand.
Indian man: Muktananda. And he has got his retreat, and some of our people go there, and I heard from them that he is teaching... He is quoting Gītā, but if you go to his room, oṁ namaḥ śivāya. I said, "This is contradiction." I said, "If he is a Śiva follower, he should teach Śiva Purāṇa and not Gītā." I said...
Prabhupāda: But they are actually impersonalists. They neither follow Śiva nor Kṛṣṇa. They are impersonalists. Their idea is the Absolute Truth is imperson. You can worship Him either as Śiva or as Kṛṣṇa, as you like. That is their philosophy. Yes.
Indian man: Yes. But this is the height of hypocrisy, to teach Gītā and to chant oṁ namaḥ śivāya.
Prabhupāda: No, because they say, "Either way, you become impersonal at the end. You Brahma-liṅga;(?) you become one with Brahma. But before you become Brahma-liṅga, you can imagine some form, either Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu or Śiva or Durgā, the same thing."
Prabhupāda: Every father loves his son. Therefore this is contradictory. He is blind, but he has called... (microphone rattling)
Indian: He has no locana.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible.
Prabhupāda: The bābājīs, they are against anything preaching. They are very, very much against preaching. So I am preaching. Bābājīs, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, and all of them, their idea is that I am ruining this bhajana and Hindu dharma. This is the propaganda. What I am writing, they are all wrong. And they are making... And they try to poison my disciples as far as possible so that the whole institution may be poisoned and break. This is their propaganda.
Hari-śauri: That was one thing that Nitāi put in his letter, that the teachings of ISKCON are completely opposite or contradictory to what is actually in the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: Now he has become tiger. He wants to kill that philosophy. When he did not know anything he came to us. Now he has become learned, he wants to criticize. The same philosophy. "You have made me tiger, now I can see you are my eatable." (laughs) He could not find out any other eatable. "I shall eat you." The rascal. What can be done? (end)
Prabhupāda: That is absurd.
Guest (1): Two contradictory terms.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Arjuna was ridiculed. "What is this nonsense?" Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam: "You have come to fight. You are talking nonsense, that 'I will not fight.' " Kṛṣṇa did not approve.
Guest (1): He told... He defined "What is your dharma and what is niṣkāma akarma." So it's very difficult to define dharma, but once it is defined, there should be no difficulty.
Prabhupāda: No, dharma is there. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is dharma. And everything is cheating. That... Because we are teaching that, that only dharma is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are not very much liked. They are of opinion, "Why Kṛṣṇa is God? I have got this God. I have got this, so many incarnations."
Prabhupāda: I chastise them only because they don't care for money. (laughter)
Guest (1): They are extreme. It is contradiction...
Prabhupāda: And because they are fortunate, wherever they go, they get money.
Guest (1): That is law of nature. All the big rivers go to the sea where water is not wanted.
Prabhupāda: I have seen them. They squander so much money, and I chastise them that "You are so loose, you are so rascal and..." But still, whatever money I have got, it is due to them.
Guest (1): That's true, that's true. (laughter) That's true. That's true.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise... (laughing)
Guest (1): Really, it is true. (break)
Prabhupāda: I have tried convinced them. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrīḥ (SB 1.8.26), to become moneyed, that also requires background. Pūrva-janmārjitaṁ dhanam. So they are born in rich country; that is due to their past pious deeds. Yes. There is no doubt. Yes. Now I request them that "You have got everything. You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you are perfect."
Prabhupāda: I means, what do you mean by I? I am person, you are person. When I say, "I say," you say that we are person. So how you can say nirākāra? It must be common knowledge. When I say, "I speak," that is not nirākāra. How it can be nirākāra? It is contradictory.
Guest (4): It is not contradictory.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is contradictory. Unless you have got a personality, you cannot speak, you cannot think. So how it is nirākāra? That is my first point. Kṛṣṇa says, "aham." He is person. We worship Kṛṣṇa as person. He says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). That "aham," He's person. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa as person because he says aham ādir hi devānām.
Guest (5): No, of course. Because actually there is nothing against your preaching. Otherwise, I would not have come.
Prabhupāda: No, this is a contradictory. We say God is person, and you say nirākāra. That is the difference. Why God should be nirākāra?
Guest (5): Ultimately, it is the...
Prabhupāda: Ultimately, you say nirākāra. We say ultimately ākāra. And that is the difference, gulf of difference. That is going on. We shall worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa there. With our ārati, just like we are doing in the temple. Perhaps your swamiji will not like this. And as soon as there is some contradiction...
Guest (5): No. Our main theme at the Kumbha-mela is to speak direct to sādhus who come from Himalayas because mainly since 150 years this institution is serving them at Hardwar and Prayaga. They don't walk down to Ujjain or Nasik. Mainly they come at Hardwar and Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: So if you kindly give us a camp, but we shall preach this.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all. That is... Nonviolence, at the same time cow-killing. This rascal, another rascal... You are observing Buddha-jayantī and daily cow-killing. As if Buddha, Lord Buddha, recommended cow-killing.
Dr. Patel: Buddhists all eat, are meat-eaters the world over.
Prabhupāda: Not a question of Buddhist. That is Christian, Hindus, everyone. Rascals. Lord Buddha, he was nonviolent, and this Jawaharlal Nehru was observing Buddha-jayantī and at the same time sanctioning cow-killing. What is that? Cow-killing. "What is wrong in eating meat?" He has said that. (break) ...advertising our movement. Everyone's asking, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa?" That is the whole American people. Even if one did not know, he is "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" And our books are selling, "What is this Kṛṣṇa book?" So indirectly they're advertising. (break) Their greatest shock that "Our people being taught 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication.' Then where is our civilization?" This is their greatest shock. Any sane man can understand that this Hindu culture is being forcibly introduced.
Guest (2): No. Is there special significance during this period? That is all the time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... The significance is sādhu-saṅga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like śaṅkha. Śaṅkha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the śaṅkha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this śaṅkha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it.
Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say that Kṛṣṇa devotees.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa devotee... You are saying that your Orissa is very much great advanced in understanding Kṛṣṇa, and your Orissa man is asking, "What is God?" This is contradictory. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there was no question to ask, "What is God?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). He should have known. But you have forgotten. Admit this.
Guest (1): Oh, definitely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore you have to learn from the very beginning. In foreign countries, Indian students, they say, "Oh, Swamiji, what will be done by this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We require technology." They say like that.
Prabhupāda: All the time. If the authority is perfect, it is all the time.
Satsvarūpa: But if it's in complete contradiction to what we experience with the senses, then it's difficult.
Prabhupāda: No, how you...? Here is a fact, daily affair. So how you experience? What is your method of experience?
Gurukṛpā: To know the father?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: There's no way.
Prabhupāda: Then? Therefore, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are unperceivable by you, don't argue. Take the statement of the authority. So everything imperceptible, even this material world... You do not know what are these planets. Many hundred thousand millions are glittering. You do not know anything. Neither you can know it. Similarly, you cannot know. You have not done it, to manufacture life. How do you rascals say that "It is like this. It is like this. It is chemical combination"? You cannot manufacture even egg, little chemical. But the chemical is coming from within the body of the chicken. It is being perfectly done, but you cannot do it. So what is your knowledge? Why you are so much proud of this knowledge? It is so imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That means rascal. What he says, that is contradictory. That means rascal.
Pṛthu-putra: But he commit suicide at the end of his life, Camus, yes. He's a philosopher, a French philosopher. He commit suicide at the end of his life. Can you believe that?
Passerby: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break)
Satsvarūpa: You were asking yesterday what are some of the charges that the opposing party makes against us. That's another one, that we follow absolute authority, your authority and also in the temples, that the temple president or leaders, they have authority, and this is not healthy psychology, that we should...
Prabhupāda: Why you come to pose your authority? If authority is not good, then why do you come to instruct your authority? Hm? The same thing, eh, change from one authority to another authority.
Satsvarūpa: But I don't say you have to accept me absolutely as...
Prabhupāda: Then why do you speak nonsense then, if I haven't got to accept you? What is the use of speaking all nonsense? If nobody accepts you, then why do you talk nonsense? Somebody's selling something, and if he says, "Don't purchase it," then what is the use of... (laughs) All contradiction. After all, they are nonsense.
Prabhupāda: First of all become Christian, that you are following all the ten commandments. "Judge not others lest you be judged."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His second question is, "Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God, not only of Israel but of every man's sins, does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatāra, and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible...?" First of all he says isn't that minimizing him to say that he's an avatāra?
Prabhupāda: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra, empowered incarnation of God. That we accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible's teachings are absolute, but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, and are they applicable for all men?"
Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone. If unknown, then how do you say unknown? You know. You know Him as unknown.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Contradiction.
Prabhupāda: Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). This picture is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where should it be hung?
Prabhupāda: Hung?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would be nice if it could be hung where you can see it easily.
Prabhupāda: Just by the side, it will be placed?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it would fit there. It could be hung, hung over here.
Upendra: When you take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: The Vṛndāvana also they do. These things are there, their business. And they smoke gāñ..., opium, gāñjā. Pān they are chewing, fish. "Tīrtha-guru." In Vṛndāvana the jāta-guru, caste gosvāmī, they do like that. He'll not touch his water even, and still, he is disciple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but that... This is such a contradiction, that the man gives someone, makes someone his disciple, but he will not take him.
Prabhupāda: He'll not take his food, he'll not touch his water, and still, he's guru. That's all. In Vṛndāvana it is going on, large... So many visitors come. They are victimized. They have got their step, in that way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, right. The devotees should understand also that any money that's given to these persons, the Deity will never see this money.
Prabhupāda: Cheating is going on. You have to be careful. Otherwise very risky. Vipralipsa. One of the qualification of conditioned souls is to cheat others and be cheated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he got a letter. Should I read it to Your Divine Grace? "Dear..." It's signed by Morarji Desai. "Dear Shree Jagat-guru Swami, I thank you for your letter of April 4th and am grateful to you for your good wishes. You have cited some very wise sūtras from our ancient writings. Although I have been called upon to shoulder heavy responsibilities, it has been my endeavor in the past and it will be so in future to see that there is no hiatus between my public and private life. This is what I have learned from Gandhiji, and I have thus saved my life from contradictions. Thank you once again for your kind sentiments. Yours sincerely..."
Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Jagat-guru Swami wrote to me that he is continuing his correspondence with Morarji Desai.
Prabhupāda: Then don't continue much. Then it will be spoiled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made everything very simplified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee.
Prabhupāda: It is absorbed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the opposite is true, in the daytime the night goes into the water, so it appears a very dark color. This is... Every explanation is given in the Bhāgavatam, and it's all in contradiction to the so-called scientists. They say that the reason we experience day and night is that the earth is rotating on its axis and at the same time circumambulating the sun.
Prabhupāda: Double. Double motion.
| Page Title: | Contradiction (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=107, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 107 |