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Constitution (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gītā. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. Religion is a kind of faith. So naturally, if you go to the higher standard of life, the stereotype faith does not act there. So this understanding, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is transcendental to all religious faith. Faith you can change. But this you cannot change. Your constitutional position as part and parcel of God is never to be changed. You may accept a faith as Christianity or accept a faith, Mohammedanism. That is a mental situation. But this is your actual constitutional situation that you are part and parcel of the Supreme. That cannot be changed.

Interviewer: What happens in your temples. Do you have services like other religions?

Prabhupāda: Yes, generally we chant this mahāmantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then we deliver speeches from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and then there are questions, we answer, and in that way the audience and the disciples they become enlightened and they advance.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: He becomes sympathetic. He is sympathetic to everyone. Still more sympathetic. So what does He do? Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa, when He sees that one is interested in hearing about Him, then He gives you facility. What is that facility? That facility is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Kṛṣṇa-kathā, talks about Kṛṣṇa, you, either you understand it or not understand it, it doesn't matter, if you simply sit down to receive, give aural reception to such message, you become pious. Immediately. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. You don't understand; simply you talk and discuss and hear, you become pious. Just like fire. You come to the fire, you understand it or not understand, you get warm. That facility is there. You don't require to understand how fire is produced, what is the chemical or physical constitution. You do it, understand or not understand. Just like you sit down on a car, motor car. You understand it or not understand it, what is the engineering of the car, but you run on.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent. Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road. I shall go everywhere." So if he is allowed to do that, that means he is simply inviting dangers. And if he remains under the protection of the parents, he is always safe. So this living entity's declaring independence means he is insane, different kinds of insanity. He cannot be independent. Let him think very deeply that it cannot be independent. He is thinking independent of God, but he is dependent on his sense pleasure. That's all. And some intoxication, a voluntarily accept dependence of something māyā. That's all.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: This is also one stage, appreciating the greatness of God. Then further development, dāsya-rasa, willing to serve. Oh! God is so great, and I must serve service because everyone of us are serving somebody. So why not serve the Supreme? Nobody is free from service because we are constitutionally the servant. Either we become the servant of the Great or māyā. Just like in any condition of our lives, we have to abide by the laws of the state. If he says that we don't abide then come to prisonhouse. You will be forced. Similarly, māyā and Kṛṣṇa. If we don't abide by Kṛṣṇa, then come to māyā. He cannot be free. That is not our position. Freedom is frustration.

Allen Ginsberg: Do you remember a man named Richard Alpert?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Allen Ginsberg: Do you remember of a man named Richard Alpert? He used to work with Timothy Leary.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) And that Mataji, she has taken land. I don't like that idea. Some Hindus are supporting. I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is for everyone. It is not a Hindu propaganda. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now in our society there is not a single other Hindu than me. (laughter) Is that not? Is there any Hindu?

Devotee: Sarvasva?

Prabhupāda: Sarvasva, he is not living in the temple.

Satyabhāmā: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa in Montreal.

Prabhupāda: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, yes. Yes.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Risky in this sense: that the human form of life is an opportunity for self-realization, but our leaders, they are miseducating that "You are this body." A basic mistake. But I am not this body, but just like you are sitting there, if I take account of your shirt and coat only, not you as a person, then there is a great mistake. Similarly, the modern civilization, education, everything is based on this bodily concept of life. But actually we are not body. Body is my shirt and coat. Mind, intelligence and ego, that is the shirt, finer dress. And this five element body—earth, water, fire, air, ether—this is gross. Just like shirt and coat. Similarly, we are dressed, the spirit soul. The spirit soul is also a measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important in this sense, that they are trying to bring people to the constitutional position. A living entity is transmigrating from one body to another, as well in our present body also, we are transmigrating. In my childhood I had a small body. That body is no longer existing, but I am existing. So there is no reason to believe that when I give up this body, I'll not exist.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: There is constitutional guarantee...

Haṁsadūta: So they still have some respect for people who are trying to glorify God.

Prabhupāda: In American in every court case, we win. (laughter)

Revatīnandana: Well, we lost here several times.

Devotee: Last, year, when we went to the police authorities for our procession here, and we wanted to make three rathas and the police officer, he was so envious, he said, "No. There is no law, we can put three rathas on the street." We said, "What is the harm? Won't you give us protection?" "So many people will be dying and killed under the ratha. If the ratha is so big and all that. People will be killed." I said, "They are big all over the world. This is for God consciousness."

Prabhupāda: So many people are dying by motor accidents, but do they stop motor car?

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Brahmajyoti is combination of jīva soul. And brahma-jyotir is emanation from Kṛṣṇa. Brahmajyoti is coming from Kṛṣṇa. This is a function. Heat is coming constantly, incessantly, from the fire. But still, heat is not fire. You cannot say heat is fire. Fire is far away.

Revatīnandana: That's right. So the constitutional nature of the entities that naturally form brahma-jyotir is the same as the constitutional nature of the jīvātmās that are forming the living entities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is comparison, a small spiritual spark. That's all. We are spark. So long it does not develop a body... That body is also the same. So it remains as spiritual spark. But because it is spirit, it cannot remain in that impersonal stage. He wants to enjoy. So, so long he has forgotten, he develops a body which is called matter.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Not so fallen as they are in the matter.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Separated.

Revatīnandana: But not in their constitutional position.

Prabhupāda: They're not as fallen as those who are in this material.

Revatīnandana: That's right. But still if they go there, they will sometimes come back here again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not pure. They are not pure. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Aviśuddha. Aviśuddha means not purified.

Revatīnandana: Are they less fallen because they are doing some service by lighting it up?

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, designation means falsely identifying that I am this body. Now the soul is in this body. Next time the soul is in another body. So according to the body we are having designations. As soon as we get American body, I think myself American. Next life, if I get a body of a dog, then I think myself dog, designate. According to the body I create my designations. But one has to become free from all designations. That is called liberated stage. This is own constitutional position. That position is eternal servant of God. That is the real position of every living entity. But because at the present moment the living entity is in contact with matter, so according to the material modes of the body, he's identifying himself with this body. That is called material designation. "I am American." "I am Englishman." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am this." "I am that." These are all designations. So real perfection of life is without designations. And that is the real constitutional position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Actual, position of the living entity (indistinct) So that is the perfection of life. And human life is especially meant for, to come to that transcendental position, without any designations.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So if one, if one comes to this stage of realization, that "I am part and parcel of God," that "God is a person; therefore I am a person, and I remain person eternally," then he gets fixed up in his final, original, constitutional position, relationship, and there is no more higher place to go. So... And in this relationship, he understands that "Because God is very great and I am very small, then my position is to serve God." So I engage in a personal serving relationship, with a personal serving mode. In this way I'm always satisfied. I'm always relating with God, in everything I do, serving Him with everything I have. And this is where the spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa because he engages us in serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like there may be some big man and you want to enter into his service and meet this big man, but you have no qualification. But if this big man has a friend who is also your friend, this friend can introduce you and engage you somehow in this big man's service. This is the duty of the spiritual master.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population (break) ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: There are some special vegetables for the Buddhists also. Vegetable meat.

Prabhupāda: Vegetable meat?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation. I am servant, so if I know that "I am servant," that is my liberation. And I am servant; if I think "I am master," that is his bondage. That is the difference between conditioned life and liberated life. So these Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, they're always thinking that they are servants of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all, they are all liberated. They haven't got to endeavor for liberation. They are already liberated, because they are situated in their constitutional position. They're not artificially thinking that "I am master." Otherwise everyone is thinking, "I am master." Everyone is thinking. That is illusion. You cannot be master in any stage of your life. You must have to remain servant. That is your position.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, as soon as we are rebellious to the authority of the Supreme Lord, we are captured by māyā—that is also an energy of Kṛṣṇa—and we become conditioned. So this is our position. So in this conditional life we can never be happy, that's a fact. So we have to transcend this conditional life and again become engaged in our constitutional position. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now our consciousness is polluted. We are thinking different way. Just like a madman thinks that..., sometimes he says, "I am the king." He stands sometimes in the midst of the road: "Stop, I order you!" Does he not? Madman. (laughs) Nobody cares for him, but he says, thinks like that. Similarly, under the spell of this illusory energy, we are thinking differently. Somebody, I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking "Englishman," he is thinking "American." I am thinking "I am proprietor of this," I am thinking "I am the master of this." So many ways. These things are all madman's proposition, that's all. So this madness can go when we actually surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then we can understand things as they are.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is our constitutional position. Just like eating and drinking. You may eat something, I may eat something, but eating is essential. You cannot say that I don't eat. That is not possible. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending—these are the bodily necessities. Similarly, the soul's necessity is to serve someone. Either you serve your country or your society or your family or your community, or at least if you nothing to serve, then you keep a dog and serve it. (laughter)

Mrs. Keating: Or what?

Śyāmasundara: A dog.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, a dog, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the conclusion is that I have to serve. This is our position. Do you admit?

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I say that I don't serve. That is not possible. That being our constitutional position then, just like my finger, it is serving, always, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that. The finger's business is to serve. As part and parcel of my body, the finger's business is to serve the whole body. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. Our essential business is to serve God. How do you find this argument? Do you refute this argument?

Mrs. Keating: You serve and you share.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mrs. Keating: You serve...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Keating: ...and you share.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By serving I share. Just like this milk. The hand helps me, brings it here. I drink, and as soon I drank, the benefit is shared by all the parts of body. Is it not?

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim. It is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim." This is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity. So people should be taught this science. As soon as one understands his constitutional position, his actual situation, then he says, "Oh, I am not this. I was struggling so hard under some misidentification."

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Pañca-draviḍa: I have experienced that directly in India, Prabhupāda, because I'm working with these merchants all the time, and the government is nationalizing and taking over one industry after another. They took over the control of flour, they took over the control of sugar, they've already got rice, then they took over the exportation of textiles. And I say, "Don't you have anything in your Constitution to prevent this?" They said, "No. We have voted in the government for six years; they can do as they like. The only way is to wait six years and vote them out again. But there is no provision..."

Prabhupāda: The future is not very nice. And government management means no one's servant.

Pañca-draviḍa: No what?

Prabhupāda: No one's servant. Everyone's servant means no one's servant. They are no one's servant.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Good morning. Thank you. (indistinct) Then every living entity wants to enjoy. And that is the Vedānta-sūtra. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Why they want to enjoy?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the eternal position of the living being.

Prabhupāda: His constitutional position is ānandamaya, joyfulness, but he does not get here that ānanda. He's seeking that ānanda, but it is being checked by conditions. He cannot enjoy. There are so many impediments. Just like we want to walk. But there are so many impediments. We want to walk on the sea beach but there are so many obstacles. So my position is that I want to enjoy, and nature's position is that she will check it. She'll not allow. Why? Why I am put into this condition? What do the scientists reply, rascals?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They don't have any answer.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Kṛṣṇa. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies. According to the nature's direction I am getting body, I am giving it up, again I am desiring something, I am getting another body. This is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). He is a rascal. He is thinking, "I am this body." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This is a yantra, machine. And we are traveling many species of life, all riding on this car, given by nature. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Māyā has given this vehicle, anywhere wandering, up and down, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The great sage declared in his Yoga-sūtras: puruṣārtha-śūnyānāṁ guṇānāṁ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti." This citi-śakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This "oneness with the Supreme" is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This "clearance" is actually liberation, or bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity. (pause) You have got some visitors' book?

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible. So the professor could not give me any satisfactory answer, you see. The leadership you have to accept. You cannot do anything independently. You have to accept. That is our constitutional position, that we have to follow somebody. Now you select whom you shall follow. If you are following the most perfect, then you become perfect. And if you are following less perfect or imperfect, then you are imperfect. This is our philosophy. You have to follow some leader. If your leader is perfect, then you are perfect. If your leader is not perfect, then you are also not perfect.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So you can inquire from me anything. The first thing I shall request you, the first principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the first ABCD of spiritual education, is to understand the constitutional position of the living entity. He is, he is spirit soul. He's not this body. The spirit soul is living within this body, but the, the body's not the spirit soul. This thing must be understood very clearly. You know, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, the proprietor of the body, is within this body. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe yathā. And the body is changing, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. So when this body will be useless, we will take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This first education of spiritual life should be understood first. Then one can make progress. Then one can understand what is the constitution of God, what is our relationship with Him. But if, so long we shall remain under the bodily concept of life, this subject matter will remain difficult.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: (break) Is it possible that if he was... This is a question that sometimes a devotee has asked me. If a yogi does attain a Vaikuṇṭha planet, but by his constitutional nature he is meant to be associated with Kṛṣṇa in Goloka...

Prabhupāda: No, why not with Viṣṇu. Vaikuṇṭha is Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. That is also... But there Nārāyaṇa is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship as in Vṛndāvana. That is not possible. Vipralambha-sakhya. Aiśvarya, aiśvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aiśvarya, opulences. Not aiśvarya-sthiti. In Vṛndāvana the devotees, they practically do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuṇṭha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.

Revatīnandana: That I understand. The question is suppose this yogi, he has not got full knowledge, he does not know of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is meditating on Paramātmā, and he attains Vaikuṇṭha. Is it possible that because he hadn't got full knowledge...

Prabhupāda: No, he has to go, simply by Paramātmā conception, he cannot go to Vaikuṇṭha.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahājana. He knew also...

Prabhupāda: But he loved Nārāyaṇa, Catur-bhuja.

Revatīnandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.

Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes mādhurya-rasa is the greatest humor...

Revatīnandana: Who?

Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same, all the same. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa devotee and Nārāyaṇa devotee. They are all the... But it is their liking, varieties of liking.

Revatīnandana: Another related question that also arose... These come in Bhāgavata class with the devotees because they think about the questions and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Kṛṣṇa is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varāha, Nṛsiṁha, like that...

Prabhupāda: That is in this material world.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.

Śyāmasundara: In the spiritual bodies aren't there also individualities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: My spiritual body won't be the same as...

Prabhupāda: Yes, just like father and son. Son is also individual. Father is also individual. Although the son is born of the body of the father, of the mother. But he is individual. He is individual. He can disobey father or he can obey the father. So long he obeys he is happy. When he disobeys he is unhappy.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Three months or four months ago we are not in possession of this room. So we were not anxious about this room. Because we were not living. So actually I am keeping my body fit, nice, just to live within this body. Therefore actually I do not love this body, I love myself. And to keep myself in a nice position, I love this room or this house. My main business is to get me, as I am, comfortable. Not that it is my business to keep this house neat and clean only. No. No, my business is to keep myself fit. So actually I love my soul. Then if you analyze, studying your soul, what is the constitution, you'll find the soul is part and parcel of God. Then you come to the platform that you love the soul because you love God. The ultimate issue is God. As you love this body because you love the soul, similarly you love the soul because you love God. And that is now lost. We are embarrassed in the affairs of loving this body. The background we have forgotten. This is our present stage. Therefore we are in confusion. There is no satisfaction.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started. What do you think?

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things. Actually, if the American nation take it seriously, "In God we trust," ...They must take it seriously because it is Constitution. Then the whole world will change. The whole world will change. Not only that. The Americans... Just like they are always combatting with the Communists. Similarly, the American nation should be so strong that anyone godless, he should be fired. Any nation who does not believe in God, war declared. "Either you believe in God or come on. Fight. Come under us." This should be the...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is like the...

Prabhupāda: It is not that God consciousness, just like our Gaurasundara, to go to a solitary place, and do all rascals and rascaldom. Sell the temple and go to the solitary place. This kind of God-trust, rascaldom, hooliganism, is no trust. You see? This is all hooliganism, nonsense.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You do not know. You come to us and learn how to trust, how to know. And if you speak lies that you do not know what is God that is a different thing. Then you should be punished." People should be given chance of believing, trusting in God. They have declared. So it is their duty. The state duty is to see how people are trusting. That is state's duty. Constitution says that nobody can steal. Is it not state's duty that people are not becoming thieves and stealing? Is it not the duty of the state? Similarly, if you, if you have accepted this that "In God we trust," you must see that everyone trusts in God. And that is scientifically. Not sentimentally. It is the duty of the state to see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like in an empty slogan. The slogan is empty.

Prabhupāda: So that is not required. It must be practical. Empty slogan has no meaning.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, everything is acintya. No scientist can explain anything. Even a straw. What is the constitution of the straw. They cannot do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cellulose, they'll say. They'll say this is cellulose.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot produce. That is the difficulty. They'll speak all nonsense, but cannot produce. No experiment. Simply theoretical observation. That's all. So observation is not perfection of science. You must produce it by experiment. Then it is perfect. Two departments.

Hṛdayānanda: So if you can produce something, that means you actually understand it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it is a combination of such and such chemicals... Just like these rascals say, "Life..." Now he said that "You take the chemicals. Can you produce?" He said, "That I cannot say." You see? Avoiding the issue. This was discussed in the meeting.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Turn your whole nation, turn into God consciousness, because they've declared in the Constitution, "In God we trust." Now they must take it very seriously. What does it mean by "God"? What does it mean by "trust"? You take this propaganda. We are doing, actually. We trust in God; therefore we have sacrificed our whole life for God. This is trust in God. Not that smoking in the parlor, and you trust in God. Not that kind of trust. Real trust. Trust means first of all you know what is God. Suppose that if you say "Trust this man." But I must know what is this man. Then my trust will be convinced, that "He is very respectful man, he's rich man, he's able man..." Yes, I can trust. But simply trust in God, you do not know what is God, what is trust, and it is going on. Why this bluff? Ah? What you say?

Prajāpati: That that's right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must take this clue, that we Americans, we say "In God we trust." Now, every American should know what is God, what is trust. This is propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government must come forward to patronize this. This is my proposition. So you write articles, you are theologicians. The America must rise up to the occasion. They have pledged themselves, "In God we trust."

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must take this clue, that we Americans, we say "In God we trust." Now, every American should know what is God, what is trust. This is propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government must come forward to patronize this. This is my proposition. So you write articles, you are theologicians. The America must rise up to the occasion. They have pledged themselves, "In God we trust." Every human nation or every human being should be like that. In God they must trust. So America, especially taken up the slogan as part of Constitution. Now there should be regular educational program, that every child, every man, every woman will trust in God. And this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So? Am I wrong in my arguments?

Devotee: No, correct.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it seriously, you American boys?

Prajāpati: Also in the Constitution, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a thing called separation of church and state, that they would have.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the law, nature's law. Similarly, war or famine or pestilence, they are meant for purging out all undesirable men. But the demonic principle is so strong that it is not becoming so. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this approach. The Americans have placed in their constitution, "In God we Trust." It should be done very scientifically and philosophically, what is God and what is that trust, not a vague idea. Vague ideas will not help. They will not be able to conquer over the atheistic world. Actually, if there is organized party who believe in God factually, then this demon class of men will always be vanquished. Yes. Just like there was war between the surāsura, demigods and the asuras. God, Viṣṇu, took side of the demigods and came out victorious. But if both of them are demons, why Viṣṇu will take side of anyone of them? "You fight and go to hell." That is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? Kṛṣṇa was in politics. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all-round: social, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, everything. It is not one-sided. They take it as... They do not know. Therefore they are thinking it is a religious movement. No, it is all-including, all-including, all-pervasive.

Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.

Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually, when they formed the country and made the constitution, the concept was they were basically they believed in God, but they were afraid that some religion would become politically powerful and disturb the...

Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." So what can be done? "We don't care for the government." Just like Gandhi started civil disobedience movement, disobedience to the government laws, but all the whole stock was put into jail and they were beaten with shoes. But still, they said, "No, we are..." This is an example.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the constitution is written in religious freedom. You should let... Anyone who wants to practice anything, it's all right in the constitution.

Prabhupāda: Religious freedom means everyone is rascal and every religion is rascaldom. So how they can check? They cannot check. Let it be. Go on.

Karandhara: It also says that has restrictions. Religious practices which harm people or are detrimental to the public good, they are checked.

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.

Prabhupāda: That we shall give in the court. "First of all this man is declaring himself as God, cheating. Why he should not be stopped?" Let there be case. This should be done.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That we shall give in the court. "First of all this man is declaring himself as God, cheating. Why he should not be stopped?" Let there be case. This should be done.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. If the constitution is that, that in the name of religion somebody cheats, the government should take action, so here it is being done. So we have to maintain so many departments to fight with these wrongdoers. Why not make a test case that "This man is declaring himself God. How he is God? Let him prove in the court." Why not institute a case?

Umāpati: Actually, the people feel helpless. They feel there is nothing they can do anyway, about anything. That's why they are engaging so much in intoxication. They feel hopeless under this government.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect, that the government itself is imperfect. How they can check?

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam there is regular calculation, what is the distance from one planet to another. Everything is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The calculation is given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every planet is described, what is the constitution, what are the forms of the living entities there. Everything is there. Bhāgavata never says that "These, all the other planets are vacant. Only this planet is full of living entities." Bhāgavata is not so rascal. These rascals may say. Their theory is that "All other planets, they are vacant. Only this planet is filled with..." This rascal theory is not in the Bhāgavata. We see that there is living entity in the water. There is living entity within the sand. How you can say there is no living entity in other planets?

Rūpānuga: They say that "Life as we know it here does not exist." Human life.

Prabhupāda: No, how you can say so? The condition is the same. Every planet is made of earth, water, air, fire, the five elements. So if under these condition there are living entities in this planet, why not in that condition living entities in other planets? That is their ignorance. That is their bluff. The different condition of the planets is that some planet is fiery, some planet is gaseous, some planet is watery. That may be, but after all, they are made of these five elements.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God. This is the standard of civilization. God is there. Without God, there cannot be anything existing. This is first point. And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.

Girirāja: Well, all of these different varieties of plants, animals, planetary systems, the sun rising, there has to be some controller, some brain who has made this order.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Devotee: They can become convinced simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. God cannot be "your God" or "my God." God is one. You cannot say that. Just like you cannot say in the United States that "your concept of president, my concept of president." President is one. If you manufacture your concept of president, that means you do not know what is president. President of United States, he has got a status, constitution, that "This is the president." So you must know that. You cannot say, "I have my concept of president." That you cannot say. Can you say that?

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? The president is one. Either you don't know or I don't know. So we must know what is that president. This is first point, what is God.

Devotee: By argument you can convince a skeptic of the possibility of the existence of God, but the reality of Godhead can only be really realized... I mean has to be experienced or realized, does it not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a point of realization. But the first preamble is that there must be God, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary it is stated, Supreme Being. So as in every department, everywhere, there is a supreme controller. Same example. The president is the supreme controller of this state. United States.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Well, it was a very big issue several years ago. They used to have a prayer at the beginning of each school day. But then one demoniac lady, one atheist, she, by her, simply by her will-power got the Supreme Court to rule that unconstitutional. Now prayers are not allowed in schools anymore unless we make an amendment to the constitution, saying "Yes, we can have a prayer in school." Then it would be allowed.

Prabhupāda: Even prayers are allowed, unless there is scientific knowledge of God, that will not help. The prayer's still going on in the churches, but what improvement? They have become hackneyed. It requires training.

Prajāpati: Then our political campaign should be educating the people in general as much as possible in the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is taking a chance to educate people.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We may not be successful in the beginning, but it is a good way of preaching, exposing to the general mass.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is your second item.

Guest: And our... I'll finish that. Now, third is in the constitution rights. Now, under the constitution of India ever person, body or organization has been given the liberty and the equal right to propagate any religion. Under the constitution, I have got a liberty to express my path for any religion. Of course, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to me, is not a religion because it is universal. It is not for any sector.

Prabhupāda: (about fan) It is not moving like that, revolving?

Satsvarūpa: No, the other one is not working.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: I don't require anything, Guru Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. But make it full force. This is full? (Sound of loud fan coming on.)

Yaśomatīnandana: This revolves, but I don't know how.

Prabhupāda: I am conducting all these temples with the help of these foreigners. There, there is no Indian.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Guest: Not by begging or mercy. Even the Gujarat, the people people which they have done, how they have got this liberty or whatever it is, is all by fighting, by firing back to government. Otherwise the government has the majority of the assembly. Congress Party (indistinct). How they will resolve it? It is the first time there is a majority of the members of assembly could be resolved because people do not want it. It's unconstitutional, but yet, (indistinct) constitutional method has been adopted because they...

Prabhupāda: And they have smashed the speaking.

Guest: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: The Hindustan people lied doing that.

Guest: Nothing lied. They will say a lie is nothing for the sake of liberty.

Prabhupāda: What is that liberty? Therefore we have to educate public that the...

Guest: And another thing, regarding the propaganda, as you said rightfully, that that propaganda you have to make in the city and not in the Juhu area. Because here...

Prabhupāda: No, no, in the city. I have told you. A big, big hall.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So the position is constitutionally I am servant, but at the present moment, being conditioned by the material nature, I am giving service to my senses. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if I give service to the master of the senses, Hṛṣīkeśa... Because senses, they are not independent. They are also dependent. Suppose I am now moving my hands, but if the master of my hand, Kṛṣṇa, paralyzes it, no more moving. Neither I can renovate the moving capacity of my hand. Therefore I am not master. Although I am claiming I am master of my hand, master of my leg, but actually I am not. The master is different. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa, master of the senses. Therefore the service should be transferred. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). We have engaged our senses for different purposes, but when we engage our senses for the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Bhakti is also service, but it is not service to the senses, but it is service to the master of the senses. This is bhakti. So constitutionally I am servant. I cannot become master. I have to serve. So if I don't serve the master of the senses, then I will have to serve the senses. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...we are servant. That I have explained several times. Yesterday also I explained. That, our constitutional position as servant, cannot be changed. Just like śūdra, servant. What is called here? The servant class?

Dr. Patel: Śūdra.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Dr. Patel: They cannot work for me.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: Servants.

Prabhupāda: The domestic servants. What do you call? Ramaya (?), servants.

Guest (1): Rāma, rāma, rāma, rāma.

Dr. Patel: He's really Rāma.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nara-nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi was a ṣaktyāveṣa avatāra.

Acyutānanda: So Arjuna has no constitutional connection with them, but at that time he was equal, by deputed potency. But they are individuals.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Arjuna is also... Yes, equal to Nara-nārāyaṇa. (break) ...as Nara-nārāyaṇa. Somewhere, I think.

Girirāja: (reads) "Kṛṣṇa's knowledge is so perfect that He remembers all the incidences of His appearances some millions and billions of years in the past. But Arjuna's memory and knowledge are limited by time and space, for he is an ordinary human being." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa did not become God by the so-called meditation or mystic power. He has already all this yogeśvara. All mystic powers are already there.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that supreme intelligence is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one comes to the point of supreme intelligence, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a rose flower, when it comes to the full blooming stage, it is very beautiful, fragrant, like that. So when a living entity comes to the understanding of his constitutional position, what he is actually, and acts like that, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is full development. That is called buddhi-yogam. Buddhi is there, intelligence is there, and when it is fully developed for understanding Kṛṣṇa, that is called buddhi-yogam. Yes. Buddhi-yogam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti. Buddhi-yogam means the intelligence, but... Don't come near. The intelligence which gets the living entity back to home, back to Godhead. That is called buddhi-yogam. Any yoga system means connecting link with the Supreme. When we speak of buddhi-yogam, that is the ultimate yoga. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata antar-ātmanā (BG 6.47).

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-tattva. They are viṣṇu-tattva. They are the spirit soul, they are varieties. Mamaivāṁśa. Just like aṁśa. Suppose if you break one brick, some fragments come out. All the fragments are not of the same size. There are different size. Similarly, although all the living entities are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, their constitution of impotence are different. (break) There are divisions, divisions, subdivisions. Yes.

Dr. Patel: But final, the main group is this.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...teṣv avasthitaḥ. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go on.

Girirāja: "The residents had no knowledge of what had happened. After entering the village Vṛndāvana, all the calves entered their respective cowsheds and the boys also went to their respective mothers and homes." (break)

Prabhupāda: My younger sister, up to seven years she was sucking my mother's breast.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Everything will be satisfied. Just like our women, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are working. They don't want equal rights with men. It is due to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never say that "I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupāda." They never say. This is artificial. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial (indistinct) (loud traffic noises)

Bhagavān: They say that our women are unintelligent because they submit so easily, but...

Prabhupāda: Subway?

Dhanañjaya: No. This is also public transport, other trains.

Bhagavān: But actually, our women are so qualified in so many ways, but these girls who simply work in the city can do nothing. They can't cook, they can't clean, they can't sew.

Prabhupāda: All rubbish, these modern girls, they are all rubbish. Therefore they are simply used for sex satisfaction. Topless, bottomless... (end)

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone knows. What is this? (laughing) Even from moral point of view, a disciple is just like daughter. And this man was having sex life with his disciple. And he's a yogi. Just see. Even he has no moral sense, apart from spiritual knowledge. According to human social constitution, one should not have sex life with daughter, with mother and sister. And what is this? If one has sex life with daughter, then where is the moral life?

M. Roost: I was always interested by Buddhist Zen. I think it's a way, very strong, with a technique which is a little different as yoga. For example, one practical way is les arts martiaux, like aikido, judo, and kendo. I think the approach is very, very interesting, but very difficult to understand.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Dr. Sallaz: I am quite agree. And we do all in our center agree with it.

Prabhupāda: So then, first of all, we have to understand what is our constitutional position. We are superior-we, living entities—we are superior energy, eternal. And after annihilation of this body, I, the spirit soul, superior energy, am not annihilated. I accept another body, material body. And there are varieties of body, 8,400,000. (Yogeśvara translates)

Dr. Sallaz: And on this point of view, when some people are going very badly, wrong with us, of course, for us it is like air, but we say, "Poor people, what about their karma?" That is how we look it, "What about their karma?" It is a pity for them that they do so wrong, because they will have to pay for it. That is all.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "pay for it" means, he has got this chance of human body. Now he will have to accept lower grade animal body. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that at least on these points we are in agreement.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the real inconvenience is that I am eternal. I am now put into such condition that I have to change my body, and there is risk of getting degraded body. Therefore my problem is that—I am put into this condition, repetition of change of body—to get out of it—that is spiritual life—and transfer myself there. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20). Just like we are in this material nature.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: And according to Hindu system, the marriage was taking place finding, examining the girl's constitution and the boy's constitution so that there may not be disruption. Everything was there.

Yogeśvara: The Vedic system is so scientific.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is human civilization. That is Āryan civilization. Vedic civilization means Āryan.

Yogeśvara: Hitler also wanted to produce a pure breed of Āryans, but artificially. He just said anyone who is German-born, they are the pure Āryans.

Prabhupāda: But so much freedom in sex, how the blood can be pure? (break)

Yogeśvara: ...but Kṛṣṇa-prasādam?

Prabhupāda: Then he's neutral always. He's not affected by all these qualities.

Yogeśvara: I guess the blood becomes purified like that. (break)

Prabhupāda: I said that "You scientists, you are simply wasting time." Did I not say that, last night?

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi: Brahmaṇaḥ aham...

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
śaśvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

"I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Nitāi: "The constitution of Brahman..."

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. You have to explain.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I'll get another.

Bhagavān: In the meantime, we can translate from here.

Jyotirmayī: He's asking when, how old are the oldest of the Vedic scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jyotirmayī: He's asking how old are the...

Yogeśvara: How old are the Vedas?

Prabhupāda: Vedas?

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So at the present moment we are under the jurisdiction of material energy. So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly transfer me from the service of material energy to the service of spiritual energy." This is our whole philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means, "O the energy of God and O God, Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in your service." Because our constitutional position is to give service. Some way or other, we have been put in the service of the material energy. So this service can be transferred to the spiritual energy. Then our life is successful. That is our philosophy, bhakti-mārga, bhakti-yoga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Here we are giving service as Hindu, as Muslim, as Christian, as Jain, as this or that. These are designation. Designation. When we become free of the designation and then serve God, that is called bhakti or devotion. Just like we have manufactured Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion, this religion, that religion. But when the religion will be without designation—I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian, but I am servitor of God—that is pure religion.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is very... Otherwise... If the living entity is equal to the Supreme Being, then... Suppose you are a living entity. You could speak everything of what is going on in others' mind or body. You cannot say what I am thinking. I cannot say what you are thinking. Therefore I or you are not all-pervading. We are limited. And that is living entity. This is a very nice example. Go on.

Satsvarūpa: "But if the constitution of the living entity is accepted as being the minute part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, then automatically he becomes a controlled living entity under a supreme energy or power. This is his constitutional position. Therefore if he remains as he is created in that natural position, he can attain..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are created as being controlled. So instead of aspiring to become controller, if we remain controlled, that is our natural position. But some rascals, they are trying to become controller, "I am... By meditation I have become God." But if you are a God, then how you have become dog? This is going on. The cheating, the so-called swamis. Do they not say, "I am God?" Do they not say? "I am God. You are God. Everyone God."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: So every living being has got knowledge. The basic knowledge, how to maintain, every one has got.

Professor: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, knowledge... Living entity, by constitutional position, has got knowledge, but in connection with this material world, when this living entity comes to this material world, so according to the body, the development of knowledge differs.

Professor: If one is following different stage, status of knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Different stage of knowledge means different types of body. Just like a child. A child is talking in some way. The same child, when he will get a different body, youthful body, he'll talk differently. What do you think?

Guest (1) (German Man): I would like to ask you a question. Once Leibnitz, who is one of the fathers of the Western tradition, formulated the question which was the beginning of metaphysics in a way, Western metaphysics. The question is "Why there is anything?" What is your stand about this classic point?

Prabhupāda: Why?

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: If you say, "I am servant," and God says, "I am master," then it is perfect.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): You said that when I say, "I am," and when you say, "I am," they are different. But she understands that the essence of everyone is the same.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, in the essence, in the essence means the spirit; that God is the supreme spirit, I am the particle spirit. So far spiritual constitution is concerned, God and the living entity, one. Both of them are spiritual. But the power, God's power and your power, is not the same. It is said in the Bible, so far I remember, "God said, 'Let there be creation.' There was creation." Can you do that, "Let there be creation" and create something? Therefore when God says, "I am" and you say "I am," that is different. So "I" means person. As person, He is also person. And "I" means persons. You are also person. But that person and you person is different. He is almighty, all-powerful. You have no... You have limited power.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not I am talking of God. I am talking of the constitutional position of the living being. That is science. So just like the same example: the driver is different from the car, but when there is some defect in the car, we are not advising that don't take care of the car. But if you simply take care of the car and don't take care of the driver, that is the basic mistake of the civilization.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying because this body can be used for intellectual advancement, therefore he's saying that sometimes people become so much concerned with intellectual things that they neglect their body.

Prabhupāda: It is not... It is beyond intellectual. The intellect also belong to the body. But understanding of the soul is beyond intellectual.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he has come with the idea that in order to pursue the philosophy, whatever philosophy we have, that the body must be in the best possible condition.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our proposal, that don't waste time. You are living entities. There are so many living entities. Now try to understand what is your actual constitutional position so that you may become happy and peaceful. This research should be done. Why they are going to waste time in this way, money and time? You can write to the organizer, sponsor of this meeting, that "Why you are foolishly going to waste time like that?" You can say, at least, "My Guru Mahārāja says like this."

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think if they're trying to create life they want to claim authorship. They want to say, "We did it," but they do not understand that they will...

Prabhupāda: What do they want to claim by creating life?

Dr. Wolf: Authorship. Originators. They want to be...

Prabhupāda: Origin is already there. How you can be originator? Already life is there. How you can be originator? That is your foolishness.

Rūpānuga: They're simply trying to disprove Kṛṣṇa. "If I can do this," they're saying, "if I can create life, then there's no need to postulate a God. I can be God."

Prabhupāda: That means demon.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective. So far our position is, we are approaching directly God through His agent, and our conception of God is there in the temple worship or our working for God. But we have got no vague idea of God. We have got complete idea: Kṛṣṇa. You want to speak anything?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which," and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."

Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: The four regulative principles should be stated.

Prabhupāda: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on on this principle, and if the pariṣat inaugurated by you cooperates with us, certainly we can render a very great service to the human society. So far manava-dharma is concerned, it should not be restricted within the Indian borders, because human beings are in all parts of the world. Point Ten: The manava-dharma mission, its constitution and program. Therefore the constitution of manava-dharma or the institution of varṇāśrama must be interesting for the whole world, and it should be exemplified by practical demonstration. The immediate program should be village organization as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels, and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Amogha:

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

Translation: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

Prabhupāda: Purport?

Amogha: Purport: "The constitution of Brahman is immortality, imperishability, eternity, and happiness. Brahman is the beginning of transcendental realization; Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is the middle, the second stage in transcendental realization; and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth. Therefore both Paramātmā and the impersonal Brahman are within the Supreme Person. It is explained in the seventh chapter that material nature is a manifestation of the inferior energy of the Supreme Lord. The Lord impregnates the inferior material nature with the fragments of the superior nature, and that is the spiritual touch in the material nature. When a living entity, conditioned by this material nature, begins the cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he elevates himself from the position of material existence and gradually rises up to the Brahman conception of the Supreme.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: And happiness means na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He does not lament, neither he desires." Our present disease is we hanker after things which we do not possess, and when that thing is lost, we lament. So hankering and lamenting. So when one is cleansed in the heart, he has no more hankering or desire. This is the symptom. And samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "Then he becomes equal to everyone." Everyone means every living being, man and animal, trees, plants, lower or higher. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Then he enters into the sphere of devotional service. This is the symptom. Then he is perfectly in his original position. Then he is happy. Just like a diseased man. So long the disease is there, he is unhappy. And as soon as the disease is cured, he will be happy. So this material disease, as soon as it is cured, one becomes happy, because he is, by constitution, spiritual being. People have no knowledge even, his..., even about his spiritual identity. Therefore they are unhappy. So if you forget what you have written, then?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is Vedānta philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, by evolutionary process, we have come to the human form of life, and it is meant for asking, "What is my constitutional position? Am I this body, or I am something else?" The dogs, he cannot put this inquiry. A dog, he thinks that he is dog, that's all. He is jumping, he is barking, and eating, sleeping, and having sex. That's all. If I ask one dog, "Please sit down. Hear Bhagavad-gītā," it is not possible. But you are human being, if I ask you, "Mr. such and such, sit down, hear from the Bhagavad-gītā," you can do that. First of all we must know the difference between dog and me. The dog is incapable to understand Bhagavad-gītā. But human being... Just like we are selling this book in the Western countries, many millions of copies, because they are human being. We are not selling among the cats and dogs.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is superior energy, and the material energy, inferior energy. Just like in your body there are some inferior parts and some superior parts. But they are body, parts of the body. This part is superior part, and the rectum is inferior part. But that does not mean it does not form the constitution parts of your body. Otherwise how you become whole? Whole means comprising everything, superior, inferior. But comparatively, there is superior part, inferior part. So the material energy is also God's energy. And spiritual energy is also God's energy, but the spiritual energy is described here as superior energy, and the material energy is described here as inferior energy. But altogether, they are energies. So those who are expert devotees of God, they can utilize inferior energy for the purpose of superior energy. That is the proper utilization. Just like the same brick and stone is required for constructing an ordinary house, and the same brick and stone can be used for constructing a church.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God." That is civilization. Work very hard similarly, but for Kṛṣṇa and not for imitating the hogs. Now, why I should be interested in for God realization? Yes, you should be. You must be. Why? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: (SB 5.5.1) "By becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your existentional constitution will be purified." What is that purification? Purīfication means because you are now impure, you are subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore you require treatment to cure this disease. Yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam. And if you cure this disease, then—you are after happiness—you will get transcendental bliss and enjoy it eternally. This is human life. Everything is discussed in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam (SB 5.5.1). Anantam means unlimited. You are searching after happiness, but this is limited. Even if you enjoy sex life, that is also limited for a few moments. But anantam. That is... You will enjoy it eternally. Just Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. He is enjoying eternally.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If the mind is engaged in the transcendental service of the Lord, there is no chance of its being engaged in the lower propensities. In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad the soul has been described as mahān, the great. Therefore the soul is above all-namely, the sense objects, the senses, the mind and the intelligence. Therefore, directly understanding the constitutional position of the soul is the solution of the whole problem.

With intelligence one has to seek out the constitutional position of the soul and then engage the mind always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That solves the whole problem. A neophyte spiritualist is generally advised to keep aloof from the objects of senses. One has to strengthen the mind by use of intelligence. If by intelligence one engages one's mind in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by complete surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then, automatically, the mind becomes stronger, and even though the senses are very strong, like serpents, they will be no more effective than serpents with broken fangs.

Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Woman reporter: Have you any comment about the lawsuit that the sect here is involved in with regard to whether they should be allowed to sell literature and collect donations?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. This is good literature. It should be encouraged. People will become sane, understand what is his constitutional position. Otherwise in your country, the other day I saw in the Times paper, they are very much perturbed, "Crime, what to do?" They are thinking. So if this literature is distributed and people read it carefully, there will be no more crime. They will be all saner to understand, self-realized souls. At the present moment people are misguided, accepting the bodily concept of life.

Jagadīśa: The reporters don't seem to have many questions. If you like you can speak.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Who will speak? She will speak?

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's in the American Constitution that all men are created equally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real idea!

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they complain that "If all men are created equally, then each man will have equal opportunity."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can become a brāhmaṇa. Equal oppor... We are giving. Any man, he may be caṇḍāla but we give them opportunity: "Come on, you become a brāhmaṇa." We don't deny: "Oh, you are coming from a caṇḍāla family. You cannot become brāhmaṇa." No. We don't say that. We give equal opportunity. (break) ...is that before this movement, really Vedic culture was never broadcast. Therefore they are finding somewhere contradiction, something astonishing. But Vedic culture is meant for the whole world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It has been misrepresented.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: And human life is meant for stopping this process of transmigration and revive our original consciousness, and go back to home, back to Godhead, and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. This is the whole scheme of Vedic literature. And Bhagavad-gītā is the synopsis how to attain this life. Therefore, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā begins to understand the constitutional position of the soul. Then other things. First of all we have to understand what we are, whether I am this body or something else. This is the first understanding. So I was trying to explain this, but that Mr. Chadda, he would bring that "You want to introduce Hindu conception." It is not Hindu conception. It is the scientific conception. I am a child for some time. Then I become a boy for some time. Then I become a young man, some time. Then I become old man. In this way I am changing body. This is not Hindu conception or Vedic conception. This is a fact. But he would not hear that. He would simply say, "You are trying to push Hindu conception of..." And what is this Hindu conception? It is equally applicable to everyone.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Such changes of body account for varieties of enjoyment or suffering, according to one's work in life. So Bhīṣma and Droṇa, being noble souls, were surely going to have either spiritual bodies in the next life, or at least life in heavenly bodies for superior enjoyment of material existence. So in either case, there was no cause of lamentation. Any man who has perfect knowledge of the constitution of the individual soul, the Supersoul, and nature—both material and spiritual—is called a dhīra or a most sober man. Such a man is never deluded by the change of bodies. The Māyāvādī theory of oneness of the spirit soul cannot be entertained on the ground that spirit soul cannot be cut into pieces as a fragmental portion. Such cutting into different individual souls would make the supreme cleavable or changeable, against the principle of the Supreme Soul being unchangeable. As confirmed in the Gītā, the fragmental portions of the Supreme exist eternally, sanātana, and are called kṣara; that is, they have a tendency to fall down into material nature.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ-kunape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is just like a bag made of three dhātus: kaptha, pitta, vāyu. Actually it is so. They are thinking that this body is made of blood, muscle, bone, and urine, and stool. This is the constitution of the body. And these foolish people thinking that the living condition is coming from combination of these things.

Dr. Patel: Material things.

Prabhupāda: Not only material. Such abominable things as stool, urine, blood, bone, muscle—all rejected things. And they are so foolish that they are accepting that combination of the stool, urine, blood and bones can create a body..., a life. Body is already there. So if you are so big scientist why don't you take this material and create a life?

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why don't you arrange for that? You have to arrange. Yes. (break) ...king. Their constitution, first word is "the king can do no wrong." Yes, that is the Vedic system. Suppose a king beheads somebody by his own sword, as it was being done. Nobody can charge him that "Without any trial he has killed this man." No. Whatever is done... Just like we take Kṛṣṇa, apāpa viddham. Kṛṣṇa is never touched with any sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. Tejiyasam na doṣaya (SB 10.33.29). Just as the sun, because it is very, very powerful, nothing can infect it. These are the dangers. (Hindi?) Of course, if you want to keep one in very exalted post, at the same time, if you want to find fault with him, then that is not good. That is not good. That is also stated, that arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If somebody thinks that the Deity is made of stone and he criticizes, that is not allowed. If one thinks spiritual master as ordinary human being, that is not allowed. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. So those who are in highly exalted post of the state, you cannot find out fault with him. That is real Vedic way. Otherwise, if he is taken as ordinary citizen, then he is... What is the meaning of his exalted post?

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, he... Nixon, Nixon...

Dr. Patel: Most powerful nation of the world having a leader of the type of Nixon.

Prabhupāda: So that is... Of course, in American constitution the president is also impeached. Is it the law?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: This is the first president who was impeached, during all the times.

Prabhupāda: But that is not very good law. That is not very good law. If the president also can be impeached, that is not very good law.

Dr. Patel: Sir, if the government is made according to the rule and regulations established by our religions, then that president or the king is above law. Otherwise these fools must be within law. But the way they have been ruling the countries and ransacking the people's morals and material...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyone, anyone who is within law, he cannot be president.

Dr. Patel: But these are within the law, president. These are the artificial constitutions made up, not the constitution as given by Vedas and Vedic religions. Then king or president is above law—to my mind. I may be wrong. I am open to correction.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But we are changing.... We are making our constitution look like a welfare society, so this way we may not fall under this.

Acyutānanda: We have to preach to them so that they understand the value of this movement.

Prabhupāda: (break) Europeans, they are coming here not for religion, but they are coming for the Kṛṣṇa culture. You have to make that. Religion they have already got, Christian. Why they should come?

Mahāṁsa: They will say that this Kṛṣṇa culture is Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Then he's a rascal. Prove it in the court. Kṛṣṇa is not Hinduism. Never.... Is there anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for the Hindus or for the Indians"?

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose if I go to America and if you do not know what is the political constitution of America, how the country is being managed, that is my foolishness. I must know that in America there is a president, the government is like this, the law is like this. Then I am intelligent. And if I do not know anything, if I think everything is automatically going on, then I am foolish rascal. They think like that, "Everything is going on, nature." They cannot explain what is the nature. Even this flower growing, the tree is growing; foolish people say, "This is nature," but intelligent person knows what is the law behind it, acting. That is intelligence and foolish. Nothing can happen. These big, big so-called scientists, they are talking of accidents. That is another rascal. Accidents, why? Why accident? This flower is not growing in this tree, and this flower is not growing in this tree by accident.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Mahāṁśa: So many constitutions, they have been amended so many times. But the Bhagavad-gītā has not been amended since so many millions of years.

Prabhupāda: It cannot be amended. Just like this rule, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). When the change of body, how you can change the rule? A perfect definition. You cannot change it. (break) ...religion, the so-called religion, it is changed. Formerly there was no Christianity and now Christianity. Now, from Christianity, so many others, so many others. That is not religion.

Revatīnandana: If you say that your leader is perfect and you do not change your leader, we see that in India... This is where Kṛṣṇa came. He is your leader, but they do not follow Kṛṣṇa any more and India is in trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right thing.

Revatīnandana: But why do they not follow if He is perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now, just like if somebody says, "Maybe there is a president," he's a rascal. He does not know what is the history, what is the constitution. He does not know. So why a gentleman should waste a time with such a rascal who says, "There may be a president"? Immediately he becomes a rascal.

Pañca-draviḍa: Then he says, "There is a God, but all these stories about Him and His activities, they are just imaginations."

Prabhupāda: That's right. You do not know what is God, after all. "There may be." Then who is going to hear you? You do not know. Your statement is also another story.

Pañca-draviḍa: I am not a scientist.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The scientists, if they say "There may be God," that means he's a rascal. Scientist means, whatever he will say, that is accurate. That is scientist. What is the difference between a layman and scientist? That is the difference. The scientist will say what is actual fact. That is scientist.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are at the present moment in impure condition. That is material. Therefore the human form of life is a chance to be free from the impurity.

Reporter (1): But, sir, if we are drop of the same ocean, why should we be impure at all?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We are pure constitutionally.

Reporter (1): Then from where does this impurity come?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is.... Just like your are healthy, but wherefrom the disease comes? You are not diseased now, but sometimes disease comes. Wherefrom it comes? So at the present moment we are in diseased condition. This has to be cured. Otherwise we are pure, as pure as God.

Reporter (1): Then what is the way to purity?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to revive your consciousness that you are part and parcel of God. And the part and parcel of God means to serve God. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, but it is meant for serving my body. I ask the finger, "Come here"; it is serving me. "Come here"; it is scratching. "Pick up the food. Give it to me"; he is giving it. This is business of the finger. If the finger cannot carry out my order, then it is diseased. And if he immediately carries out order, then it is healthy. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, we must be ready to give service immediately. Then it is healthy condition. And if we do not, then it is māyā. We are serving. You are serving. Everyone is serving, because our constitution is to serve. Big, big leaders, they are also serving. Anyone you can see. The sun, he is serving. Exactly in the time it is rising by the order of God. Exactly in time it is setting. So everyone is serving. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya: (CC Adi 5.142) "Only master is God, and everyone is His servant." But the diseased condition is that when we do not serve God, we serve something else, māyā, and that is diseased condition.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.

Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then where is desireless?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we're saying anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11).

Prabhupāda: Anya, anya means anyathā. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyathā. Anyābhilāṣa. That is anyābhilāṣa. Anya means other, abhilāṣa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They got greater benefit than the living people behind. The Pāṇḍavas, they said, that "Those people actually was... They were in presence of Kṛṣṇa. They saw their life by..."

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa.

Dr. Patel: Svarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). That is mukti. When one is situated in his own original, constitutional position, that is called mukti. Svarūpeṇa mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. This is mukti.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's there, but is that the heart of the soul or the heart of the gross material body?

Prabhupāda: Then.... Heart there is, as you have got heart. What you are? The same constitution.

Hariśauri: In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad it describes how they're sitting side by side.

Prabhupāda: The same constitution of the body. Otherwise there is no question of heart.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've just challenged the whole field of biology also.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the.... I say they're nonsense, rascals. They say that there is no.... And what is their knowledge? We don't give any value to their knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says clearly, hṛd-deśe 'rjuna. And this body is just like a yantra, machine. So as machine means, moving machine means it must have wheel, it must have sitting place.... Everything is there, machine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that even the plants and trees also have a heart.

Prabhupāda: Everything. That is proved scientifically. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved. There is a part(?). What is that? Spi...? Begins the word, the machine, the record?

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now we are sitting, so many gentlemen. He's having some paper, and you are serving God. The service is there. Nobody can say, "No, I don't serve anyone." Is there any man? No. That is not possible. You must serve. Constitutionally, you are meant for service, either you are president of the state or is anything. That is your position. That is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). All living entities are eternal servant of God.

Ambarīṣa: And all service is the same?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambarīṣa: All service is the same?

Devotee (1): No. He says, "All service is the same."

Prabhupāda: How can it be? All service is the same? Do you think...

Ambarīṣa: Everybody serves in their own way, but it's all...

Prabhupāda: That is.... Unless you come to the service of God, it is wrong.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This oneness with the Supreme is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This clearance is actually liberation, or bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse. After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the real life of the living entity. māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Makhanlāl: Identity? (break) Brahman realization for the devotee in the beginning is just that he realizes his constitutional position as servant of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is next. First of all, that "I am not this body." That is Brahman realization.

Makhanlāl: So we may only be partially situated in that realization in our present level of devotional service.

Prabhupāda: You realize or not realize, if you remain on the platform, that is same. (break) ...in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. (break)

Makhanlāl: ...says that such a person never laments nor desires anything. So...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you realize that you are servant of Kṛṣṇa, where is lamentation?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That he forgot, that "I'm servant of the people." So everyone is servant, but falsely thinking "I'm master." That is material disease. The best thing is that if I have to remain servant, why not become servant of Kṛṣṇa? That's all. That is perfection. That is perfect life. Even by becoming a false master of the whole American country, I was not happy, I am now dragged down as a common man, Mr. Nixon, then what is the use of becoming master? It is all false. Let me become servant of Kṛṣṇa; then it is perfect. Instead of becoming a false master of the American country, let me be a real servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is liberty, liberated. Because any stage of my life, to become master is false. That is not possible. He has to be convinced that he cannot be master. Your constitution is to remain servant. If you prefer to remain servant of a big populace in America... But you are servant; don't think you are master. That is sane. And soon as you commit mistake as master, immediately he's in trouble. Is it not? That's it. You give up this false notion that "I am master." Then your all welfare is there.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Well, that you should.... Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Śrī Nārada said: You have not actually broadcast the sublime and spotless glories of the Personality of Godhead. That philosophy which does not satisfy the transcendental senses of the Lord is considered worthless." Purport. "The eternal relation of an individual soul with the Supreme Soul Personality of Godhead is constitutionally one of being the eternal servitor of the eternal master. The Lord has expanded Himself as living beings in order to accept loving service from them, and this alone can satisfy both the Lord and the living beings. A scholar like Vyāsadeva has completed many expansions of the Vedic literatures, ending with the Vedānta philosophy, but none of them have been written directly glorifying the Personality of Godhead. Dry philosophical speculations even on the transcendental subject of the Absolute have very little attraction without directly dealing with the glorification of the Lord. The Personality of Godhead is the last word in transcendental realization.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The American government would say, "How can you say that there's no freedom when the First Amendment of the United States Constitution says that there is freedom of religion? One can make any religion he likes and follow."

Prabhupāda: Now they can amend. By simply by writing by the government men, that's all, it becomes a law. There is no question of its validity, but because it is spoken by government, therefore the... In other words, the government men should be so honest and so elevated that actually their words should be law. But this is democracy. Any nonsense can take vote and go to the government, and then whatever he will say, that will be law. Who cares that he's a rascal? Somehow or other he has gotten vote and he's in a position. Who is considering that? And in the Vedic age only the first-class brāhmaṇas and sages, they would... Manu-saṁhitā. That is law, not that any rascal goes into the legislative assembly and passes some law. Of course, whatever government says, that is law, but what is the position of the government now? And similarly everything. A yogi is actually worshipable. But what are these yogis, rascals? So these are asuric.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, the process of life is the same, biological. These rascals say that there is no soul of the animal, but is it correct biologically?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is biologically wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you see the way physical and atomical constitution of the animal and the man, the same. If you say man has soul, then the animal has also soul. If you deny that man has no soul, then you can also deny. But so far physiological... They, in the biological laboratory, they dissect the frogs to see the similar arrangement. So how you can you say the frog has no soul? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, on Saturday Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about the scientific proof of the Absolute Truth from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. When one realizes Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, does one also see like how the physical world is manifesting itself? Do we understand all physical laws, how chemicals are combining, or...? What do we actually understand when we understand the Absolute Truth?

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This body is called the kṣetra, and within it dwells the owner of the body and the Supreme Lord, who knows both the body and the owner of the body. Therefore He is called the knower of all fields. The distinction between the field of activities, the owner of activities, and the supreme owner of activities is described as follows. Perfect knowledge of the constitution of the body, the constitution of the individual soul, and the constitution of the Supersoul is known in terms of Vedic literature as jñānam. That is the opinion of Kṛṣṇa. To understand both the soul and the Supersoul as one yet distinct is knowledge. One who does not understand the field of activity activity and the knower of activity is not in perfect knowledge. One has to understand the position of prakṛti (nature), and puruṣa (the enjoyer of the nature), and īśvara (the knower who dominates or controls nature and the individual soul). One should not confuse the three in their different capacities. One should not confuse the painter, the painting and the easel.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (4): I can't seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we in our original constitutional position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and in that position, that original position of full knowledge and full bliss and being in our eternal nature... Now I have some experience of how strong this material energy is and how māyā works somewhat, but if I had known this and had this full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how māyā works and how I might fall.

Prabhupāda: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyākṣa? They were Kṛṣṇa's doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiraṇyakaśipu or Hiraṇyākṣa?

Devotee (4): Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So how they did fall? They are from Vaikuṇṭha. They are Kṛṣṇa's personal associates, keeping the doorkeepers. How did they fell down? Anyway, there is chance of falling down at any moment.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: So even in the Vaikuṇṭha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not become Kṛṣṇa?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So we are not meant for that civilization. We are meant for the civilization by which one can understand his position, constitutional position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Therefore our activities are different from the hogs and dogs.

Interviewer: So what is generally taken here... I mean, this is the American bicentennial year, and the Declaration of Independence talks about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Are you suggesting then that what is taken to be life is actually the antithesis of life? What is taken to be liberty is actually enslavement? And what is assumed to be the pursuit of happiness is nothing more than a rat race in which you try to make the best of what you can?

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is happiness. Bhagavad-gītā points out what is your distress. Can anyone say what is the actual distress? They do not know it. Distress they are taking as usual part of life. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is philosophy, to find out what is distress. This is directly said by Kṛṣṇa, that these are distresses, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, to become old and to become diseased. But they do not know it. Not only they, everyone, all over the world, they take it as part of life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Constitution of the United States gives great deal of protection for civil rights, religious freedom.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are so advanced.

Kīrtanānanda: But there's a lot of talk now that they aren't, so far as income tax is concerned.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: So far as our collecting money, they are going to maybe change some laws. There's a lot of talk about that now.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've done that in India.

Hṛdayānanda: The religious leaders have become such cheaters that the governments are thinking "Why shouldn't they pay taxes? They're just ordinary people."

Prabhupāda: Best thing is collect and spend, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Don't bank a lot of money.

Prabhupāda: No. Best buildings are on this Fifth Avenue, huh?

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities. "Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity." He doesn't interfere. "All right, you go on." And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement. His property, He does not come to interfere. God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows. Just like you have got this body, I have got this body, but we do not know everything of this body. I do not know how many hairs are there. Is it not? So, so many things. I am eating, and it is transformed into blood, and it is directed towards brain, towards other parts of the body and we are working very strong, but we do not know how things are happening.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work. So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog.

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: How long this will continue?

Indian man (2): They say up to February, because this February she must have elections. Otherwise, there should be an amendment in the Constitution to allow her to continue.

Prabhupāda: That is being made.

Indian man (2): This present government will serve no indication to that, that she will be allowed. Because as far as the Constitution, only one year extension can be given to Parliament, that nobody has followed through.

Prabhupāda: One year?

Indian man (2): One year extension to the existing Parliament is given as per Constitution. After one year it must dissolve if it is necessary.

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man (2): One year extension to the existing Parliament is given as per Constitution. After one year it must dissolve if it is necessary.

Prabhupāda: That is the Constitution. But that is going to be changed?

Indian man (2): No that clause is not proposed to be changed. The changes which she is bringing in decision, that clause at least is not proposed to be changed. The last proposition she made...

Indian man (1): We were surprised as usual.

Indian man (3): There were some questions in Parliament about her.

Indian man (1): Yes, it came in the Hindu...

Prabhupāda: Let them inquire. Our... Everything is open secret. We are selling books throughout the whole world to the extent of six lakhs rupees per day. So money is coming from Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Against minority.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And no government in the world wants to do that.

Prabhupāda: It is against American constitution. So they should file immediately a case.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And America is very sensitive to...

Prabhupāda: So you note down, you are simply hearing. Note down and inform them. Yes. Ah, it is being recorded, that's alright. So give them this direction. Combine the Indian community. In Toronto and in..., there are many thousands of Indians, New York, Canada, London. These are very important places.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that this Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion, any religious literature in the world.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a most important thing. That you cannot discriminate minority communities. That is against American constitution.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, when this, when we had a similar situation in Germany, what we wanted to do is have all our centers in important cities in foreign countries all over the world make a letter and a delegation to visit the United States embassy in all these places. This will have an effect because if it's brought, if it comes in this way, international reaction...

Prabhupāda: Yes, arrange like this.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can understand, Rāmeśvara suggested we send a big petition of telegrams to the American consulate. Because then American consulate will transmit these telegrams to the state department in Washington. We said that if our... We would pay for it but our life members will all sign if we send a telegram to the American...

Prabhupāda: Hm, Dr. Saligram taken a leading part?

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: "But such tactics are a gross violation of fundamental human and constitutional rights are to go without saying. In cases where victims have instigated charges of kidnapping against parents and deprogrammers, grand juries have thus far refused to issue indictments apparently because the work is done at the behest of parents or other relatives and ostensibly for the good of the victim. The situation which has prompted me to communicate with members of the professional psychiatric community involves sweeping implications of a very important legal case which will be going to trial sometime in the late winter or early spring. Some background of the case may be helpful here." Then he explains about the case. Anyway, it's very nicely written. And he's mostly trying to expose that the psychiatrists have to take an objective standpoint. Otherwise, there are some psychiatrists who are atheistic and they are contending that any religious experience or so-called religious consciousness is a...

Prabhupāda: Artificial dependence.

Jagadīśa: ...artificial dependence, yeah. So this is...

Prabhupāda: They say that there is a tissue in the brain, they disturb with this religious idea. They say like that. And if that tissue is operated then there will be no more religion. They can do that. With a brain operation he'll forget willfully. These rascal, so-called scientists, they can do anything.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If you do not get good engagement, you cannot give up bad engagement. So similarly, if you do not forget your constitutional position, then the bad things cannot be forgotten. So our position is that we are part and parcel of God.

Indian (1): Of the Almighty.

Prabhupāda;: Yes. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So this finger, I say, "Finger come here. Itch here," so it is doing that. And if it is... If it cannot do, then it is diseased. If there is some painless, painfulness or some sore, then immediately I cannot do it. So that means I am part and parcel of God. If I cannot serve God, then I am diseased. That is material condition. So material condition... Suppose this finger is diseased. So you poke up, applying some ointment and going to the doctor. This is one business. And when it is cured, when it is actually engaged in service, that is healthy state. So this social work without serving God is just like applying ointment to the diseased part of the... It has no value, practical value. If it... It has got value, provided it is cured, to serve the whole body. So if the finger is not so cured to serve the whole body, then it remains diseased. You go on applying ointment; it has no use. Similarly, to serve humanity means if you can raise him to the consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, then, then it is right. And if you keep him in ignorance—you go on all kinds of human service—it is all useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The point is that some income tax affair.

Mr. Asnani: No problem. Is it at (indistinct). Have you seen notice?

Girirāja: Which is? About the constitution, exemption? Ah, no. No, it's not a notice as such, but they're questioning whether we deserve the tax exemption as a charitable trust. They're saying that we are not charitable; we are religious. And religious is not exempt from income tax. So the question is whether we have to change our constitution to fit their idea or whether to establish a separate trust or whether to defend that our present...

Prabhupāda: First thing is that we have not received any official notice.

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering about that?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So first of all where is the necessity? I have been talking...

Mr. Asnani: Why create a problem? Today the problem is not before us.

Girirāja: The thing is that the same constitution we've had since the beginning, and we've always got the exemption...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why you are bothering? He's going Delhi?

Girirāja: Even last time the Assistant Commissioner...

Mr. Asnani: Who is there in Delhi, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Asnani: Ah, let him go.

Prabhupāda: But let him go, but I think that why unnecessarily bother?

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must condemn all preaching. So this is against the Amendment, the Constitutional First Amendment. So there is a big Constitutional case. This court case has great interest to all the people who are into civil right and things in the United States because it is testing the freedom of religion. It's a test case. It's the biggest test case of this decade in the United States. And the American Civil Liberties Union is taking this up as their main..., one of their main points of fighting now. All over the United States they're defending. Of course, there are many groups also who are insisting, "We will fight, but only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are not going to align ourselves with a general group." They wanted to give a name, as Brahmānanda was saying. And they insisted that it must include the Hare Kṛṣṇa. The name of our organization must include the word Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not a sectarian. It is full of... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So it is practically proved, how they are taking Bhagavad-gītā. So it is science. It is actually life. So why not practice in India? It is not that everyone will be able, but there must be an exemplary sect. People may see that there is ideal. That we can do. India it is easier, because those who are born in India, constitutionally they have got that tendency. Simply we have to channelize. Then everything will be... So there is a good chance. Now the government has changed. They are after something very good, and the direction is there. If you take it seriously, there will be no difficulty.

Mr. Rajda: No, definitely we shall take it up seriously, very seriously. We have no chance in the sense we are ourselves in prison after I met you last. Immediately we were taken in. And this all hullabaloo came about, reactions and all this. It is only now that we get the breathing time.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "According to the constitutional directive, harijanas should account for twenty percent of the posts in the government service." But first of all they should be qualified. We can use the example that if your father is a high-court justice, does it make you a high-court justice?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First you have to be qualified.

Prabhupāda: This is no plea, that there is checking: because he is born in a low-grade family, there is no educational facilities. "You cannot do it," say that, "for want of culture."

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Explaining one of the main objects of the 43rd amendment, he said that the articles... He said that the 43rd constitution amendment bill was significant in that it sought to remedy the excesses permitted by the previous ministry. He said that the article 31d of the 42nd amendment which provided the power in the legislature to make laws for the prevention and prohibition of antinational activities remained, and the previous ministry continued. There is no doubt that laws would have been passed in regard to illegal national activities. It was apprehended with reason that those laws would provide for preventative detention among other things as a remedy. It says there was no need for introducing article 31d unless it was to enlarge the field of preventative detention and enforcing it. Since there was enough laws already on the statue books which dealt with activities specifically detailed in article 31d and by trial in the ordinary manner." (pause)

Prabhupāda: She has misused the power, and nobody was to check. It is very dangerous constitution.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: Charan Singh (Hindi) "Ninety murders in one district. 'There was a constitutional breakdown in the states,' he said. The chief minister of Maratha states had admitted to him that his government's reach was no longer running the way it had done earlier. He was receiving many complaints from the U.P., Rajasthan, and Haryana. Fifty murders have been committed in one district in Bihar in one week. Mr. Charan Singh's statement, which was preceded by the (indistinct) meeting earlier in the morning, led to a spate of questions. He was asked whether he was going counter to the spirit of the federal structure which permitted different ruling parties and centers and states, whether the ruling party M.P. would be asked to resign if a state..., if the states they came from turned down his party government and whether the central government would not invoke the power of an article which stated by the Constitution despite capitalism in the Janata party election manifesto."

Prabhupāda: So what is this yoga? (laughs) Sanjay Gandhi's yoga, just see. A rogue, devil, he is practicing yoga. His mother was practicing also yoga, the same.

Bhakti-caru: They want to pull their youth back.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: They are practicing yoga. They want to pull their youth back. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: No Indira Gandhi's news?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want... Just like England. There is no food, food grain. They have... Everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Actually everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we are His sons. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that "Indians are My sons." Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: (BG 14.4) "In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way. Otherwise they'll suffer continually. They are suffering, and they will continue. (aside:) They have come to disturb. So that philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are trying to distribute all over the world, and they are accepting.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to study the Indian constitution. It is defective because by the same constitution our present Prime Minister was put into custody for nineteen months. And we are working on the same constitution. So the constitution itself is defective. Anything man-made will be defective.

Indian man (3): It will never be perfect.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting that "Take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. You'll be perfect. Don't manufacture."

Indian man (5): You can't have that in authoritarianism. You get that in Delhi, where they feel that they are authority.

Prabhupāda: So become authority. That is... We said that. You become guru, authority. But you learn first of all as celā from the guru. And then you become guru. And without any learning, without any..., how become a guru? That is going on. Everyone is self-made guru. That has to be stopped.

Indian man (5): I feel, in this country at least, the young generation, the present generation, absolutely has got no base, religious base. And...

Prabhupāda: Religious base is there. There is scriptures. But they are not being trained up.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?

Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument... So our proposal is that unless the limbs are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the limbs of Bhagavad-gītā, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties, Ch.D., D.A.C., Ph.D....

Sita Ram Singh: All they have got a party for their own selfish end. Actually though I belong toward the party, but I must (indistinct). Because they have all got their own selfish aims.

Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.

Sita Ram Singh: Same distressed condition.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our boys. (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi) Rather, the Constitution is molded from bad to worse. This point should be repaired. I have got feeling for that.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: When I go next time to Delhi I shall write letter. I have got address of this mission here. I shall write a letter here, and one of the representatives will go. I will give that...

Prabhupāda: No, you can speak to Mr. Vajpai. He is in charge of foreigners.

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...in that paper he wrote, "In case I die, these three men will be trustees, and the majority will be effective." So that scrap of paper, Tīrtha Mahārāja kept it. And later on, Guru Mahārāja wanted to make a constitution, but he avoided. But actually after his demise, that scrap of paper was presented in the high-court, and property was given. That is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... It was considered as a will.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No need of big, formal document.

Prabhupāda: He is the original founder. Automatically he wins. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He recovered from that hernia operation.

Page Title:Constitution (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari, Mayapur
Created:08 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=125, Let=0
No. of Quotes:125