Prabhupāda: Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "No more kingdom because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics.
Congress (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
"Everything is owned by Īśa, the Supreme Controller." Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "What is given by Him, allotted to you, you enjoy that." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam: "But we not encroach upon others' property." This is Īśopaniṣad, Vedas. And the same idea is explained in different Purāṇas. So the Vedas can give you... The other day I was reading in the, that paper, Moscow News, there was a congress, Communist congress, and the president declared that "We are ready to get others' experience to improve." So I think the Vedic concept of socialism or communism will much improve the idea of communism.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We took prasādam on the roof.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, thank you (devotees laugh). Yes. In that auspicious occasion we are connected. Before that, in 1920, ah 22, when I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, young man, and I was nationalist, Congress party. I was a devotee of Mahatma Gandhi and C.R. Dāsa. At that time...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We took prasādam on the roof.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, thank you (devotees laugh). Yes. In that auspicious occasion we are connected. Before that, in 1920, ah 22, when I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, young man, and I was nationalist, Congress party. I was a devotee of Mahatma Gandhi and C.R. Dāsa. At that time...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When I was (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That was the beginning of our...
Prabhupāda: No, I was in connection with Congress (?) in 1917.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Seventeen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, 17, when Annie Besant became the Congress president, yes. Then I became serious in 1920, and I gave up my education. So one of my friends, that friend he is also now, perhaps you know Mahārāja, that Naren Mullik?
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi should have followed Gandhi's principles—from political point of view. Village organization. But they won't do that.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: You were all the time in Allahabad. You must be knowing them from very close part.
Prabhupāda: No, he was my customer. I used to go to his home. And he was coming to my shop. Yes. He was my customer. When 1928 congress was there, I sent him one letter that "I want to become a delegate and go there." So immediately, "Yes, you come." So I went to Calcutta and I told his secretary that "Panditji has told me like this." "Yes, take this ticket." Yes.
Just like we have seen practically in the life of C.R. Das. He was living very luxuriously. You know, C.R. Das.
Indian man (1): I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living.
Prabhupāda: Just like we have seen practically in the life of C.R. Das. He was living very luxuriously. You know, C.R. Das.
Indian man (1): I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: My Bhāgavata was being purchased by your Congress Library. In Delhi they have got office. So there was standing order, eighteen copies of my book as soon as they are published. The head librarian in India, New Delhi, he gave me standing order.
Prabhupāda: ...your American Congress Library they placed a standing order, eighteen books, whatever I published each book. So I have tried so many, what is called, GBC. They are not very expert to organize in India. So if you think you can do it... Now we have got sufficient place in Bombay. So if you take charge of this distribution of books not only in India but neighboring countries just like Hong Kong, Singapore, if you think you can do that, that will be nice.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...she is spiritually inclined, therefore... (Bengali) "I know Mrs. Gandhi is spiritually inclined." (Bengali) By 1928 Jawaharlal Nehru, Congress President... (Bengali) "Dear Panditji, I want to go to Congress as a delegate. Please give me delegate ticket." (Bengali) "You don't require any ticket. You come here. You'll get it." Delegate's seats are... (Bengali)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How did they do that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, you… Nowadays you pay somebody, and he will do anything. So they appointed this Jhinna. He found that he is a very, intelligent lawyer. He was in the Congress. So there was dissension. There must be. So once this Jhinna was to be the president of the Congress, and the Patel, he frustrated. So Jhinna became angry, and at this moment the Britishers took it. He was a very intelligent barrister. So he instigated that, "You form a party, Muslim league. And whatever money is required for propaganda, we shall pay." So regular subscription was raised from all big, big British companies, mercantile, to pay him: "Whatever money, you organize the Muslims against the Hindus." And he did it.
Cyavana: Like a band of pirates. They always fight amongst themselves and kill each other.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity.
Prabhupāda: Yesterday... Last night, I explained at the Birla house that you have to change only your care of. Now we are care of under material energy, and you have to transfer your under care of spiritual energy. They appreciated.
Dr. Patel: They are under the care of great māyā, mah-māyā.
Prabhupāda: Everyone...
Dr. Patel: ...is sitting in the building, of all the Birlas.
Prabhupāda: Not Birlas, everyone. (laughing)
Dr. Patel: (also laughing) I don't know, sir. But I... I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told you, the Congress, when I was a member of Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under...
Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our verdict. Mūḍha. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā...
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Bengali culture was very much adored. Surendranath Bannerjee started the political movement, and he was so well known. Even in Parliament, the Englishmen, English M.P.'s, he... They were speaking of Surendranath. They used to say "Surrendered not." "Here is a person who is not 'Surrender not.' He'll never surrender. 'Surrender not.' " Actually, the British Empire was startled by the agitation of Surendranath Bannerjee. The Congress was started by Surendranath Bannerjee, this one Congress. Two Bengali and one Englishman started this Congress sometimes in 1887, 1867, like that. So in our childhood we used to see that Surendranath Bannerjee was being elected president of Congress almost every year. And Gandhi came into prominence when Surendranath Bannerjee surrendered. Formerly he was not surrendering. But the government gave him the first ministership, that "You become minister." So he became a government man. Then Gandhi came in prominence. Surendranath Bannerjee was the first minister in India.
Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga there are many things we don't want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays ten lakhs per month.
Prabhupāda: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that "noncooperation," so "Boycott British court. We are not going on." So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that "I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?" So the resolution was, "No, we should noncooperate. We don't want money. We should noncooperate." So when... He fought in the meeting that "This should be withdrawn." So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?" So he replied, "I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs." The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position. So my point is that when the... He fought his best that "This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court," but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I'll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That..., we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master. So in this way we should... If there is any misunderstanding, this should be adjusted and we should work wholeheartedly, because our responsibility is very great. We are trying to contribute something to the whole world. It is not a fashion. It is not a fashion. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness, so we are trying to give it to the world, God consciousness, in a systematic way, so that they may be highly benefited. So this is the purpose, but if there is some misunderstanding...
Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.
Prabhupāda: The result is that the Congress Party and Indira Gandhi will never be elected anymore. That is sure. Therefore he's postponing election. Now they have lost all their credit. They will never be elected. Congress Party and Indira Gandhi finished.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In American also. The Congress Library purchased nineteen sets.
Hari-śauri: Which library?
Prabhupāda: Congress Library.
Hari-śauri: Oh, Congress. The one in Washington? The Library of Congress?
Prabhupāda: Or there is a branch in India.
Hari-śauri: That is where they have your original Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Medicine. Just like a type of vairāgya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal, I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brāhmaṇa. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way."(?) So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.
Prabhupāda: Congress position is not good.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Not good this time. And therefore we can always expect a big shock at the last moment from Mrs. Gandhi. She's so...
Prabhupāda: Emergency.
Dr. Sharma: Contribution. And there was a real rich life in Indian village. Now, after independence, that life has been really destroyed. Because the grants have been taken away and here, it's really a pain to see such beautiful temples having no maintenance now. Plus this so-called secular education, you know godless education they have introduced, that has further harmed, because the temple-going public has also dwindled in number. And it looks like there has been a systematic plan to undermine our...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, by this Congress. Their opinion is that India is too much religious; they spoiled.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...now by Kṛṣṇa's mercy only she is finished. Yes. Wonderfully finished. Without Kṛṣṇa's hand, it was impossible. We never expected. Samūla-chāṅṭā.(?) There is one word, samūla-chāṅṭā. Just like you cut one tree, this is one, but the root remains there: again the tree. Samūla-chāṅṭā means to get out the root, pluck out the tree with the root and throw it. So this woman has been done like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's been plucked out at the root. So she won't grow again.
Prabhupāda: Rather, if she remains in the Congress, Congress is finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is trying to remain, it seems.
Prabhupāda: That is... Then Congress will lose all importance. Her very name has to be driven out. And it is proved that majority of the congressmen, they are rogues. They supported her. I have...
Prabhupāda: Simply harassment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Matrey. Will he be reelected?
Girirāja: No. He's notorious.
Prabhupāda: He's Congress man. So nobody will elect Congress man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're starting to catch on to him now, and when they do it's going to be a big scandal because he really made it into the American..., all over the world, but especially in America. He even got into the Army. They were teaching Transcendental Meditation in the Army. Even in schools... He had it in public schools. He said, "It is not at all religious. It's science, and it should be taught. Just like you teach gymnastics, you should also teach this." So if this becomes exposed, oh... It'll also hurt us indirectly, but actually it'll be good for us. But naturally they'll think that "All of these groups are now bogus." He's very much accepted in the public mind. But now the Congressional committees are investigating him.
Prabhupāda: And ours is accepted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our is very accepted.
Prabhupāda: That's a great achievement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That should be, this Congressional... Who has got so many temples?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they have a lot of offices, but they don't have any temples where Deities are worshiped. None of them. They don't touch Deity worship.
Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it. This Sanjay Gandhi ruined the whole Congress organization, and he was being worshiped. Just see practically. It is due to him that the old, oldest political party, Congress, is ruined. And he was being worshiped. This is society's position. And Morarji Desai, he's now prime minister, he was put into jail. This is going on. This is the example to learn. For nineteen months he was put into jail. How much it is troublesome. If I am asked that "For so many months you cannot go out of this room," I'll become mad.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nation is so poor now.
Prabhupāda: Poor means... The party, Congress Party, practically achieved. Credit is there. And they are now ruined. This is their progress.
| Page Title: | Congress (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Marc, Mayapur |
| Created: | 05 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=30, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 30 |