Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But body is changing. There are many examples. One of the example is a very common example. Suppose a man is dead. Now everybody is crying, and if we ask "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is dead." I can say, "Your son is lying here. Why you are saying that he is dead?" "No, no. He is dead. He is gone. His body is lying." Therefore he is different from the body. Immediately you can understand. You say, "No, he is gone. His body is lying." Don't you say at that time? So you understand at the time of death that the man was different from the body. But during this lifetime, I was taking care of his body only. Why did I take care of he? Because I did not know him. You see? This is a misgiving. In this way there are so many misgivings. We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country?
Conditional life (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: These are miserable conditions inflicted by material nature just to remind the conditioned soul that this conditioned life in the material nature is not for you. There is another place where you can live very peacefully. Just like in the prison life there is always infliction of miseries. If in the prison life one is comfortably situated, then he'll never go out, he'll try to live there. So these material inflictions of miseries reminds us that this place is not suitable for us. It is not our place. Our place is back to Godhead, back to home. Therefore these are the reminders that you must leave this place.
Gargamuni: Yes. Also, what is our true identity?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But he's thinking that "I am master of the dog." A family man, he's controlled by his wife, by his children, by his servant, by everyone, but he's thinking, "I am master." President Nixon is thinking that he's master of his country, but he's controlled. At once he can be dismissed by the public, his servant. And he gets that position, placing himself that "I'll give you very good service. I shall be your first-class servant." Therefore people vote, "All right, you become president." And he's advertising, "Re-elect me. Re-elect me." That means he is servant. But he's thinking, "I am master." That is the position. Māyā. One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant. And a devotee, he'll never think himself, "I am master." "I am servant." That is the difference between māyā and not māyā. He at least knows that "I am never master. I am always servant." But these rascals, they think that they are master when actually they are servant. That is the difference. That is the difference. When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation. I am servant, so if I know that "I am servant," that is my liberation. And I am servant; if I think "I am master," that is his bondage. That is the difference between conditioned life and liberated life.
Prabhupāda: So these Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, they're always thinking that they are servants of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all, they are all liberated. They haven't got to endeavor for liberation. They are already liberated, because they are situated in their constitutional position. They're not artificially thinking that "I am master." Otherwise everyone is thinking, "I am master." Everyone is thinking. That is illusion. You cannot be master in any stage of your life. You must have to remain servant. That is your position. But when one thinks artificially that he is master, that is his conditioned life. And when one voluntarily surrenders to the supreme master, that is his liberated life. The devotee hasn't got to try for liberation separately. As soon as he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative, he is liberated.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) The, our present conditional life is rebellious. We have rebelled against the authority of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. It is very simple thing. Just like a person, a citizen, if he becomes rebellious, then he is arrested and put into custody, and his life becomes conditioned, he has no freedom. Similarly, as soon aw we are rebellious to the authority of the Supreme Lord, we are captured by māyā—that is also an energy of Kṛṣṇa—and we become conditioned. So this is our position. So in this conditional life we can never be happy, that's a fact. So we have to transcend this conditional life and again become engaged in our constitutional position. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now our consciousness is polluted. We are thinking different way. Just like a madman thinks that..., sometimes he says, "I am the king." He stands sometimes in the midst of the road: "Stop, I order you!" Does he not? Madman. (laughs) Nobody cares for him, but he says, thinks like that. Similarly, under the spell of this illusory energy, we are thinking differently. Somebody, I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking "Englishman," he is thinking "American." I am thinking "I am proprietor of this," I am thinking "I am the master of this."
Prabhupāda: Easygoing, that is actual real life. But that easygoing, you must come to that stage. If you come to a healthy stage, then when you eat you can digest nicely. But unhealthy stage, if you eat, how you will digest? Therefore, you have to cure your disease first of all. Then you eat, it will be digested. So in the material condition, nothing can be (indistinct). Therefore, how it is called conditioned life?
Jayatīrtha: We're bound up by so many conditions.
Prabhupāda: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Nārada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is not experienced. He has not seen yet.
Prabhupāda: He is not above the defects, four defects of conditioned life. You know these four defects?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Illusion, mistake, cheating, imperfectness. They are aware of the imperfectness of the senses. Still they are proud of their knowledge. This is illusion. (end)
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on. There is no solution. People are cheaters. They have been taught how to cheat. Everyone has got a cheating propensity. That is conditioned life. Four defects: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat and imperfectness of the senses. So cheating propensity everyone has got. So that cheating propensity is being encouraged more and more. Instead of minimizing it or stop it, it is being encouraged.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is illusion. That is called moha, moha. One is suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suppose a big man, a minister, or the prime minister, or the chief minister, he's also suffering. But he's thinking, "Now I am prime minister." That is illusion. Nobody, nobody is here peaceful. Everyone is suffering. Because threefold miseries. That is the conditional life. And after all, Kṛṣṇa says that "If you are thinking that you are very happy, that you must know at least these things: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9)." How you can get out of it? You'll die. Nobody wants to die.
Dr. Patel: Body dies.
Prabhupāda: But these rascals, they do... say, "Death is natural." But why don't you like to die? That is suffering. But he thinks, "No, no, it is good." But as soon as I say, "I shall kill you," "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't kill me. Don't kill me." He does not like to die, but...
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are samples of God, small particles. Just like gold, big gold mine and a small particle of gold. Both of them are gold. Composition is the same. So we, the small particle of God, we are trying to create here so many things. The creating energy is there. Because we are a small particle of God, very small, so we have got so much energy, and we are planning so many things. Because on account of that creative energy. So you can just imagine how much creative energy has got the Supreme Lord, of whom we are little samples. We are little sample only, part and parcel, very small particle. So we are creating by our mind... Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. By our senses and mind, we are so many things planning. You are also working in the laboratory with that senses and mind. But you are the creative energy. So the struggle is that we are planning to become happy within this material world. That is described here: manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Karṣati is simply struggling. That's all.
Devotee: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ, manaḥ sasthanindriyani prakṛti-sthani karsati (BG 15.7). "The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned souls that they are struggling for existence. Instead of finding out how to come to the original consciousness and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means love. So everyone is struggling hard how to reach the platform of love. So many institutions-philanthropic, international, United Nations. The only attempt, how to love each other. But they'll struggle, they'll not attain the platform, simply struggle. There have been so many attempts, even the favorite example, the United Nations. How much they are doing and people have got the idea of philanthropism, countryism, communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is they are trying to come to the platform of love.
Prabhupāda: Without them... You cannot live with this material body without so many conditions. And that is also one of the conditions. You cannot live. Any condition, little disturbed... You become diseased; you become disturbed. So therefore it is called conditional life. You simply live here on condition. And spiritual life means no condition. If the condition is favorable, then your senses will act. Otherwise you have got useless senses. If there is light, then you can see. You can become proud of your eyes. "Can you show me God?" And what you can see, rascal? If God gives you light, then you can see. You see under condition. And still, he's very proud of his eyes. "Can you show me God?" This is going on. Rascal, what you can see?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Nitai:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned soul. They are struggling for existence. Existence means finding out how to come to the original consciousness, and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means "love," so everyone is struggling hard how to be in the platform of love. So many institution-philanthropy, international and the United Nation—the only attempt: how to love each other. But they are struggling. They have not attained the platform, simply struggling. There have been so many attempts to unite. The vivid example is the United Nation. Formerly that was League of Nation. And people are manufacturing ideas, philanthropism and altruism, Communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is, they are trying to come to the platform of love. But they are manufacturing their own way. The Kṛṣṇa solves, that "Not in this way. Simply make Me center, and the whole thing will be done." But that they will not do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Why they will think? It is a fact. There is English proverb, "There is many dangers between the cups and the lips." You are going to drink tea. The distance is: here is cup and here is lip. There may be many dangers. So suppose in drinking tea there is some choking within the throat, and coughing, you may die immediately. You are so much under the control of nature. Little mistake will cause your death, little mistake. And conditioned life means we commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat, and our knowledge is imperfect. This is conditioned life.
Paramahaṁsa:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"Translation. The living entities in this conditional world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Is there an animal soul, Swami?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is already said, sarva-yoniṣu, "all forms of life." Even ant, tree, birds, plant, trees, everything. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. All of them, the soul is there. And they have got different... Just like you are differently dressed, I am differently dressed, but you are also soul, I am also soul.
Prabhupāda: Yoga-kṣemam. Yes, that's all right, yoga-kṣemam. Read.
Upendra: Translation: But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.
Purport: One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all auspicious and full of spiritual potencies; indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord, such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life.
Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened.
Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many.
Prabhupāda: Now, simply their point is that you realize or I realize Brahman. That is not the end. You realize fully. They think to Brahman means to stop all activities. Now you become dull, without any activities. So that is not the end. The Bhagavad-gītā says if you are brahma-bhutaḥ, then come to this point: mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Then you will stay. And if you simply stay on brahma-bhutaḥ stage, then you'll again fall down. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, that ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa vimukta-maninaḥ. They are thinking, "Now I am relieved from the conditional life." But actually he's not. Ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa vimukta-maninaḥ. They are thinking like that, "Now I am liberated." He's not liberated. Why? Tvayy aṣṭa-bhavat. Aṣṭa-bhavat: "He has no still information of You." If he is actually brahma-bhutaḥ, then he knows the Supreme Brahman, Parabrahman, and then he engages himself in His service. And when he is engaged in that service there is no question of material, tri-gunātmākam. Sa-guṇan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya... (BG 14.26). That is real Brahman, when he is above these three guṇas. Otherwise, if you think, "Now I have become liberated," maybe by your liberation liberated, but it will not stay. You'll fall down again. Just like this land.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no. If he says we are creating brāhmaṇa, then where is low class? From logical point of view.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, from low class to high class, he says.
Prabhupāda: Actually, everyone is Brahman. So from this conditioned life of non-Brahman, if we create Brahman, what is the wrong there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Original position.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Ah. (break) Manipuri.
Jayapatāka: Many Manipuri people are coming to Māyāpur now. Many. They wear a special type of uniform, the women, one pinkish dress.
Prabhupāda: For seeing our temple?
Prabhupāda: ...The Lord then said, (Hindi:) ...bhagavān diya(?). This.... (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke (BG 15.7). 15.7.
Guru-kṛpā: "The living entities in this conditional world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: So with this instrument he's manipulating this machine, as exactly the pilot, with so many electronics, machine, he's working the flying of the plane. Where is the difficulty to understand? And this is, body is a machine. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhū.... Bhrāmayan, wandering. The aeroplane is wandering. This machine is wandering. It is also going. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Sometimes up, sometimes down. Huh? Find out this. (devotees look for verse) Same aeroplane, going up and down. Two wings, this hand, like this.
Prabhupāda: What you can do? If I take your blood, what you can do? You'll die, that's all. Hm.
Hṛdayānanda:
- na tad bhāsayate sūryo
- na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
- (BG 15.6)
"That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world." Purport? "The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is described here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, moonshine, fire or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We have only one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, but all the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The shining effulgence of all those planets, called Vaikuṇṭhas, constitutes the shining sky known as the brahmajyoti. Actually, the effulgence is emanating from the planet of Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Part of that shining effulgence is covered by the mahat-tattva, the material world. Other than this, the major portion of that shining sky is full of spiritual planets, which are called Vaikuṇṭhas, the chief of which is Goloka Vṛndāvana. As long as a living entity is in this dark material world, he is in conditional life, but as soon as he reaches the spiritual sky, by cutting through the false, perverted tree of this material world, he becomes liberated. Then there is no chance of his coming back here. In his conditional life, the living entity considers himself to be the lord of this material world, but in his liberated state he enters into the spiritual kingdom and becomes the associate of the Supreme Lord.
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Hṛdayānanda:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind." Purport. "In this verse the identity of the living being is clearly given. The living entity is a fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord-eternally. It is not that he assumes individuality in his conditional life and in his liberated state becomes one with the Supreme Lord. He is eternally fragmented. It is clearly said, sanātana. According to the Vedic version, the Supreme Lord manifests and expands Himself in innumerable expansions, of which the primary expansions are called Viṣṇu-tattva, and the secondary expansions are called the living entities. In other words, the Viṣṇu-tattva is the personal expansion, and the living entities are separated expansions. By His personal expansion, He is manifested in various forms like Lord Rāma, Nṛsiṁhadeva, Viṣṇumūrti and all the predominating Deities in the Vaikuṇṭha planets.
Prabhupāda: Ah, na tat-prayāsaḥ kartavyam. This prayāsa, endeavor for economic development, na kartavyam, don't do it. Here is a revolution against this modern civilization. They are simply after economic development, and here it is condemned. It is condemned that this kind of endeavor is simply wasting the balance of our life. If one is intelligent, he sees that "I have got, say, ten thousand dollars in the bank balance, now I must utilize it properly so that it may not be spent," that is intelligence. Similarly, we have begun our death from the date of birth. Daily, every moment we are, our balance is being decreased. So therefore we should be intelligent. So long the balance is there, let me utilize it properly by which I can be really benefited. So the ideal of my benefit is that I'm suffering in this material condition of life, to stop this conditional life, to get freedom life. That is the aim of life. And that freedom can be achieved only by going back to home, back to Godhead. Not any other way. You cannot get the freedom of life here in this material.... That is not possible. Although you are trying for it. Everyone is trying to.... (aside:) Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja can come in. Yes. So without endeavor for this purpose, if we are simply trying to develop our economic condition, that is.... What is that? Āyur-vyayaḥ? What is that word?
Hṛdayānanda:
- trasto 'smy ahaṁ kṛpaṇa-vatsala duḥsahogra-
- saṁsāra-cakra-kadanād grasatāṁ praṇītaḥ
- baddhaḥ sva-karmabhir uśattama te 'ṅghri-mūlaṁ
- prīto 'pavarga-śaraṇaṁ hvayase kadā nu
"O most powerful, insurmountable Lord, who are kind to the fallen souls, I have been put into the association of demons as a result of my activities, and therefore I am very much afraid of my condition of life within this material world. When will that moment come when You will call me to the shelter of Your lotus feet, which are the ultimate goal for liberation from conditional life?"
Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja afraid of this material life, not of Nṛsiṁhadeva. Such a fierceful appearance, he knows "He's my Lord." No fear, but he's afraid of this material existence. Trasto 'smi, read it, the same verse, trasto 'smi.
Hṛdayānanda: "O most powerful, insurmountable Lord, who are kind to the fallen souls, I have been put into the association of demons as a result of my activities, and therefore I am very much afraid of my condition of life within this material world. When will that moment come when You will call me to the shelter of Your lotus feet, which are the ultimate goal for liberation from conditional life?"
Prabhupāda: Hm. Is there a purport?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. "Being in the material world is certainly miserable, but certainly when one is put into the association of asuras, or atheistic men, it is intolerably so. One may ask why the living entity is put into the material world. Indeed, sometimes foolish people deride the Lord for having put them here. Actually, everyone is put into conditional life according to his karma. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja, representing all the other conditioned souls, admits that he was put into life among the asuras because of the results of his karma. The Lord is known as kṛpaṇa-vatsala because He is extremely kind to the conditioned souls. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, the Lord appears when there are discrepancies in the execution of religious principles (yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata... tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7)).
Hari-śauri:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ sasthanindriyani
- prakṛti-sthani karsati
- (BG 15.7)
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: So if he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to become like God. The Māyāvādīs, they are trying to become God. That is impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is to remain, to act as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boy friends, they do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They are playing with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His shoulder and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is always there. God and the part and parcel. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. We can attain that position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Many fields, that is also conditioned. That is conditioned, that is not independence.
Hari-śauri: One has choice to become a dog or a cat, or...
Prabhupāda: Everything is conditioned. Therefore it is called conditioned life. There is no question of independence. That is foolishness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that they are not independent, completely under the control of laws of material nature, and still they are thinking independent.
Rūpānuga: It is like a prisoner in the prison house thinking he has some freedom.
Prabhupāda:
- pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
- sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
So Indian life means para-upakāra. They are in the darkness, others, in the darkness. They have no such culture, spiritual culture. India has got that culture, this Bhagavad-gītā. So one should make his life a practically Bhagavad-gītā life. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. And preach it to the world. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. And this order was not only... Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu happened to be a Bengali... He appeared in Nadia district, a district in Bengal. But He does not say the Bengalis; He said the bhāratīs. Bharata-varṣa janma haila yāra. So it is India's mission to become exactly on the line of Bhagavad-gītā. That is also spoken by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that perfection of life means to understand Bhagavad-gītā. He said āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You just become a guru and deliver this country." "This country" means wherever you are living—it doesn't matter whether in India or America or anywhere else—you just deliver them. So to become guru means to save a person from the conditional life of matter. So long you become a materialistic person, that means you are under condition of material nature. So you have to get your freedom from the laws of material nature. That is your perfect life.
Prabhupāda: These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Just like their so-called scientific way. They are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go? Because they are controlled. They have got their flying machine. They can to go any planet, but they cannot because they are being controlled. So we should come to our senses that we cannot bring the laws of material nature under our control. We are already under the control of the laws of material nature, and that is our conditional life. Actually, we require freedom from conditional life, but that freedom can be achieved when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: (BG 4.9) "Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body." At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that "We are free. We can do whatever we like." This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs, you dance, eat, drink, be merry and die, that's all. This is not good life. You must be very serious, especially those who are Indians. They should take it very seriously. Because this Kṛṣṇa culture, Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra in India, and we Indians, we do not take full advantage of this great transcendental knowledge, then you are committing suicide. So my request is, all the Indians who are here in this foreign country, keep your own original culture. Don't forget. Don't be bewildered. Be in your position.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident. A man is born from the very beginning, a rich man's son. That does not mean that it is accident. Daiva-netreṇa. By a superior arrangement he is given the chance to take birth in a aristocratic family or rich family or educated family or in a beautiful family. There is... But this is, so far it is concerned, it is body, and our movement, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is not of the body. Body is superfluous. It is spiritual movement. Kṛṣṇa therefore begins, asmin dehe, dehī. This body is external. Just like dress. We are having this dress. I am not this dress. I am within the dress. Similarly, the spirit soul is within this body, and spiritual movement means about that spirit soul. Not of this body. So that spirit soul is completely different from this body and... Just like a gentleman is gentleman. One may have a different type of dress. Not that everyone is expected of the same dress. But within the dress, a gentleman is gentleman. Similarly, although there are so many varieties of bodies, within the body the soul is pure part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So the spiritual movement means to take up the spirit soul within the body and to elevate him from the conditioned life.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific...
Hari-śauri: Translation: "Those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form, to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have." Purport. "One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all-auspicious and full of spiritual potency. Indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life."
Prabhupāda: Why not do this business, guaranteed by Kṛṣṇa?
| Page Title: | Conditional life (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 28 of Apr, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=35, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 35 |