Expressions researched:
"conceive"
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Interviewer: And what of special foods and special drink?
Prabhupāda: Special food means Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Because we have dedicated our life to Kṛṣṇa, we eat such things which Kṛṣṇa eats. The impersonalists, they have no idea of Kṛṣṇa, they have no idea of God, and how they can conceive that the God eats also? So we are not such rascal. We know that what God eats, and we offer such thing to God, or Kṛṣṇa, and we take after His eating. That is our special food.
Prabhupāda: We cannot manufacture anything. It is not possible. But this is shadow and that is reality. And in the shadow... Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all. So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The impersonalists, they think that in the material varieties there are so many abominable inebrieties, therefore in the spiritual world all these things should be minus, void. That is their material calculation. They cannot think that in the spiritual world also there is love. Because here, in this world, the so-called love or lust is frustrated and followed by so many calamities that therefore they cannot conceive that in the spiritual world also there is love. Their idea, in one sense, is right, that how these nonsensical things can exist in the spiritual world? Therefore they make it altogether minus. No variety.
Prabhupāda: What is this? Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are enjoying about Kṛṣṇa's going to the field with some cows?" Yes. Just like one of our students, that Raṇacora. He asked me, "Swamiji, how is that God has become a cowherd boy?" Yes. Because ordinary people, they are thinking God must be so great, so great, great, that they cannot conceive. And that great personality, how He becomes a cowherd boy playing with cowherd boys? Yes. Brahmā also became astonished, and therefore he came to check "Whether He is my Lord or not?" (laughter) Yes. Bewildered. Muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ. The Bhāgavata says therefore, even the great personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality. He, Brahmā also heard that at Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared and He is acting as a cowherd boy. He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way.
Prabhupāda: A Bengali woman is here, that Lekha? She can come and you can give.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, may I ask you one question? I know that (indistinct) here is an astrologer. I can do astrological charts. Do you consider that māyā? (break)
Allen Ginsberg: I don't know how... It's difficult for me to conceive everybody in America...
Prabhupāda: Nothing is accepted by everybody.
Allen Ginsberg: Or even a vast, vast, vast number of people living a Hindu-language-based, Hindu-food-based, monastic life in America. Yes. And many of us, like, do you remember Gary Snyder, who is the Buddhist boy, I think we met in New York?
Kīrtanānanda: San Francisco.
Prabhupāda: The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there. So at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization. So if you want to maintain the peace and prosperity of the whole worldly social order, you must create a class of men very intelligent, a class of men very expert in administration, a class of men very expert in production, and a class of men to work. That is required.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that sunshine is not sun. But without sun, where is the sunshine? So you cannot say sunshine is not sun. But at the same time it is not sun. It is sun and not sun, both. That is our philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable. In the material science you cannot conceive that a thing simultaneously positive and negative. That you cannot think. That is inconceivable energy. And because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy, Kṛṣṇa can manifest Himself from any energy, and act. Therefore, when we worship Kṛṣṇa made of something of earth, water, or something like that, that is Kṛṣṇa, that is not Kṛṣṇ... You cannot say it is not Kṛṣṇa. When you worship this metal form of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Because metal is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is non-different from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can present Himself fully in His energy. So this Deity worship is not heathenism. It is actually worshiping God, provided you know the process.
Bob: I'll be getting married the end of this summer, in September or August, when I return to America. And the devotees say that the householders only have sex to conceive a child. And I cannot picture myself at all in such a position, and... What kind of sex life can one lead, living in the material world?
Prabhupāda: The Vedic principle is that one should avoid sex life altogether. The whole Vedic principle is to get liberation from this material bondage. And there are different attachments for this material enjoyment, out of which sex life is the source of topmost enjoyment. The Bhāgavata says that this material world... Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam (SB 5.5.8). Means that a man is attached to woman and woman is attached to man. Not only human society, in animal society also. That attachment is the basic principle of material life. So, a woman is hankering or seeking after the association of a man, and a man is hankering or seeking the association of a woman. Just like we see the, all the fictions, novels, dramas, this cinema, or even ordinary advertisement, simply they depict the attachment between man and woman.
Prabhupāda: You are all individuals. Every one of us is individual. So how you conceive of merging? Suppose, just like we are here-one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. How we can merge? You just study philosophy. We are here, eight persons. How we can merge into one? Have you got any idea how we can merge? These eight persons, how we can merge into one?
Impersonalist: To realize our selves.
Prabhupāda: Well, if suppose you have realized, now, how to merge?
Impersonalist: In realization there is that. In realization there is merging.
Prabhupāda: This realization... Now, there are five fingers-one, two, three, four, five. How they can merge into one?
Impersonalist: By realizing this.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Impersonalist: By realizing this.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the sannyāsīs have come out from the head, the vānaprasthas from the arms, the gṛhasthas from the waist and the brahmacārīs from the legs.'
"These different orders of society and grades of spiritual advancement are conceived in terms of qualification. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā that the four social orders and the four spiritual orders are created by the Lord Himself, in terms of different individual qualities. As the different parts of the body have different types of activities, so the social orders and spiritual orders also have different types of activities in terms of their qualification and position. The target of these activities, however, is always the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, 'He is the supreme enjoyer.' So whether one is a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra, he has to satisfy the Supreme Lord by his activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is we call kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya(?), the frog, Dr. Frog of the well. He cannot conceive what is Atlantic Ocean, but still he will theorize, "Atlantic Ocean may be so big, so big, so big." What experience you can get Atlantic Ocean living in a three-foot well? That is going on. And if I ask you, "What is the measurement of the space?" You cannot say that. You cannot say that. But there is measurement (indistinct). It may be unlimited for you, but as it is a created thing, there must be measurement. Any created thing has measurement. Unless they agree to submit... They must submit. Just like you have submitted, you are (indistinct), so you can understand God. This is the only qualification. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), "First of all submit, rascal, then I shall (indistinct), you will be able to understand the truth." There is no possibility of understanding the whole thing by challenge. That is (indistinct). Their only challenge (indistinct).
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. So, our Swami Mahārāja has done a miracle! (Laughingly) He has done a miracle. What Bhaktivinoda conceived and (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati) Prabhupada tried according to his conception to translate into action we find that through Swami Mahārāja in his last days these revelations have been fulfilled. We are happy, we are glad, we are proud of Swami Mahārāja, and of you all too. When any person comes to take diksa and stay at the Math, we say that after wandering for a long time in a foreign land he is again coming back to his home. Home means homeward, back to God "back to home, back to Godhead." Back to Godhead means back to home, sweet, sweet home. Our home and life is there and nowhere else. So we may be quite free there of any misgivings or misconduct with such bold and clear faith we can go on, onward and onward. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca....
Prabhupāda: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya....So we are thinking we are very much fortunate to hear His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Bhakti Raksaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja. He is, by age and experience, in both ways he is senior to me. I am also always fortunate to have his association for a very long timeperhaps since nineteen hundred and thirty or something like that. At that time, he did not accept sannyāsa; he just left home, vanaprastha. In his white dress he went to Allahabad. (Aside, to Śrīdhara Mahārāja:) Mahārāja, I think you remember this incident when you went to Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot have but if you get clear idea, why you do not take it.
Mr. Wadell: No, I mean even in the physical realm. I cannot at this moment conceive what it is like, say, to be in Sydney, in many cities in the world. There are many things, many bits of knowledge which I cannot have. I cannot be everywhere at once. I am here now. I do not even know what is happening in the place from which I have come.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Wadell: And I must accept that. I cannot be certain about that. Would you not agree?
Prabhupāda: But if there is a process... Suppose you are not in Sydney, but if there is a radio message from Sydney, how do you accept it?
Mr. Wadell: Oh, well, I'd believe it.
Prabhupāda: Then that is a question of belief.
Ambassador: Probably, as far as moral conduct is concerned, but more than that, how is it possible, you know? For the inner man in the spiritual mind, each individual can conceive his own philosophy, but the external conduct, the, the, what is called...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. External conduct means on religious principle.
Ambassador: This is what I was...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... I... You can, you can...
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...understand Sanskrit.
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one has got faith and devotion to God, God is one... God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is one. So religion means according to... Not according to... This is the Vedic conclusion.
Bali Mardana: Does that mean it is not possible to conceive of something that does not exist somewhere?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real fact.
Karandhara: Some of them say that Brahman creates illusion to forget that he is Brahman. They say that Brahman, the one, creates illusion to forget that he's Brahman. That's his līlā.
Prabhupāda: It is līlā. Then you have to accept that Brahman is a person.
Karandhara: Well, they say there is only one person. There's no varieties of persons.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you have to accept the origin, the person. That is our philosophy. Then you accept our philosophy.
Karandhara: Then they say, "Well it's not exactly a person, it's inconceivable."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to receive perfect knowledge, you must have approach the guru." Guru means who has the perfect knowledge. So you cannot independently get perfect knowledge, intellectual. That will remain always imperfect. So intellectually, how you can conceive about God, who is unlimited, beyond your sense perception? We cannot know even ordinary material things, how great the sun is, how this universe is. We have imperfect knowledge. So our process is to receive knowledge from the perfect. Therefore, we are receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the supreme perfect. I am not perfect, but because I am receiving knowledge from the supreme perfect, therefore whatever I say, it is perfect. And that is guru. Guru does not say anything of his own manufacture or research. He says only what he has heard from the Supreme. That's all. So it is easier. It is easier. If the child says, "A watch, a watch," the child may be imperfect, but he has heard from his father, Here is a watch."
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Because... Therefore acintya. How great He is, how great fortunate He is, that you cannot think of, you cannot estimate. That is called acintya. Acintya means I cannot conceive, I cannot estimate. Not only I, any big personality within this universe. Just like Brahmā says, "The others may say that he knows you, but so far I am concerned, I do not know you." That is inconceivable. Brahmā, the greatest personality within this universe, he also admits that "Others may say that he knows what You are, but from my personal experience, I say I do not know anything." We can simply partially see. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Just like we are seeing this material nature, partial exhibition of His potencies. This is one of the potencies, but He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). This material nature is only... This is also inferior potency. Apareyam. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This material nature is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind intelligence, ego. All these eight elements are separated inferior energy, and how much superior energies He has got.
Prabhupāda: Greenland, yes. So that these people may be saved from so much cold. And what power you have got? Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. You create something, some unlimited temperature. You cannot do that. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. But God has created. Not only one, many millions of suns are there. So what is your power? You are challenging God? This is called acintya. You cannot conceive even how it is made possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda, what is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Last night Śrīla Prabhupāda was mentioning about the (indistinct) explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was giving the example that the, the jewel, gem, cintāmaṇi, it produces so many other jewels, but it remains as it is. That is pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). God, by His... Here. Just like energy. The petrol energy is now being finished. Finished. But what is the petrol there in the sun? It is never finished. But this is also material. So find out what, what is that source of...? Now, after hundred years, your stock is finished now. There is problem now, how to drive your motor car. But here, the sun, aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ.
Prabhupāda: That is conception of God. Advaita. Advaita. Advaita means absolute. And... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Again advayam. You may conceive God as impersonal or localized Paramātmā or Bhagavān—the same thing. But due to our, I mean to say, meager knowledge, we are thinking, somebody's thinking that His personality is greater than impersonality and somebody's thinking impersonality's greater than personality. This is our conception. He's the same. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Not different. Not different. But one who has reached to the conception of personality, he has got all the others. That is the difference. So you write. You are theologician. You write about God so that people may understand how our students are enlightened. Other so-called foolish theologicians may learn from you. You take the ideas and explain.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Otherwise they, we cannot conceive of how things are going on.
Prabhupāda: Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Just like in the modern days, government, they have abolished monarchism, but still, why they elect a president? Why?
Prajāpati: Must be leadership.
Prabhupāda: Must be. That is the point. If you have abolished monarchy, then why you are electing another rascal to become a monarch? What is the answer? Why do you need it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they need law and order.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there must be. In our organization... Just like in each temple we elect a president. Then we get GBC. Then above all, I am. So that is needed. It is not conventional. It is needed. Therefore above everything, there must be God. So if these people, they say, "There is no need of God, there is no use for Him," that means they are all rascals.
Prabhupāda: You cannot deny that. But he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. You have got intelligence; you can understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you don't use your intelligence for understanding Kṛṣṇa, you are nothing but cats and dogs. Kṛpaṇa. They are called kṛpaṇas. Kṛpaṇa means miser. One has got money, but he does not know how to utilize it. He is called kṛpaṇa, miser. They are so rascal that they cannot conceive that there is something as God and He can be known. Hopeless. That is the real point. Otherwise why so many scientists are...? They know, "This is idea only. There is nothing like God. So let us put our theories." That's all. That is your business, theology. They are so rubbish. That was the first publication in (the Village) Voice paper. They wrote when I first began in 1965 that "We thought that God is dead, but Swamiji has brought God with kīrtana." They admitted this. I think the paper, you have got copy. You can see it. It said exactly like this, that "We thought God is dead, but here we see, Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought God in kīrtana." That's it.
Prabhupāda: And that is God. Clear, simple understanding. How can you deny? The difficulty is that with our poor fund of knowledge, we cannot understand that how a Supreme Being, person, can create the sky, this huge water, the sun, moon. Because I am thinking, "God must be like me." A Dr. Frog. He is thinking, "Atlantic Ocean must be like this well." That is our defect. He cannot conceive that beyond this well there can be a vast great mass of water. He cannot conceive. So comparing his intelligence, he is thinking that "How it is possible that a person can create such a big sky, such big, huge...?" Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This earth, so big, huge quantity of earthly planet. So not only one. Millions. And then water, then fire, then... He cannot conceive. He is thinking that "If there is God, He must be like me. So I cannot do this. Therefore there is no God." The same, "Yes. I close my eyes. Then there is no enemies." That's all. He should be intelligent. Just like we are here ten or twenty men. You accept that "He is our guru. He is most intelligent man." Similarly, somebody is more intelligent than me, somebody is more intelligent, more intelligent.
Prabhupāda: They are speculating, spirit—"something negation of matter." That's all. That is mental speculation. It is bad. "Good means negation of bad." They are thinking like that. They do not know, in this material world, bad and good are both the same thing. Because it is matter. That they do not know. They think, "This is bad, this is good." But they do not know, materially conceived anything, good or bad, they are the same thing. That they do not know.
Dvaite means this external energy of Kṛṣṇa. There everything is infected.
Bahulāśva: How is bad and good the same thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Just like we are walking on this street. Sometimes we say, "This is very good." And sometimes, "It is very bad." But the street is the same.
Prabhupāda: ...therefore they see that this, their conception of Kṛṣṇa, there is mother, there is father, there is friend—"So what is this? Here also we see the mother, father, friend. So how they become free?" They cannot understand. Their brain is so poor they cannot understand. Therefore they: "It is also māyā. To think of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, having father, mother, friends, playing pastimes, this is also māyā." Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. They cannot conceive that in the spiritual world exactly the same things there are, but the position is different. That is absolute, without any designation.
Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Candanācārya: Also this morning you said that we should try to only love Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Candanācārya: And nothing else.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why not? Or any other way.
Mahāṁsa: We cannot actually conceive of all these things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa being the reservoir of all pleasure, so the pleasure of fighting is there. So He can exhibit anywhere. (break) That is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we limit Kṛṣṇa like one of us, or little bigger than me, then I become doctor frog. (aside:) Don't come near. Why don't you tell them? (break)
Girirāja: "...Vasudeva attempted to take His son from the delivery room, and exactly at that time, a daughter was born of Nanda and Yaśodā. She was Yogamāyā, the internal potency of the Lord. By the influence of His internal potency, Yogamāyā, all the residents of Kaṁsa's palace, especially the doorkeepers, were overwhelmed with deep sleep and all the palace doors opened although they were barred and shackled with iron chains. The night was very dark, but as soon as Vasudeva took Kṛṣṇa on His lap and went out, he could see everything just as in the sunlight." (break)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...he worships like anything. Then he... We have an assembly, and they passed by majority vote that I should refrain from coming here, but I somehow or other came.
Prabhupāda: ...muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. (break) ...said that unless one comes to understand the inconceivable power of God, there is no meaning of God.
Dr. Patel: It is inconceivable to conceive God.
Prabhupāda: No, no, inconceivable power of God. God is in your presence.
Dr. Patel: No, no, but His personal power is inconceivable. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...understand the inconceivable power of God. (break) First of all he has to come to the sattva-guṇa. Sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati.
When one becomes free from the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, the symptom is... Rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa means lust and greediness. So when this rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa is absent, then the sattva-guṇa becomes prominent.
Prabhupāda: That is later. That is later on. For beginning you have simply to give submissive aural reception. That is the first beginning. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Our process is jñāne prayāsam udapāsya. I know something or I can know the Supreme by my knowledge. As I am something, I am very important, our process is to forget this first of all. This is called humbleness, submissive. Generally, the jñānīs, yogis, they are thinking that they can do something by their own endeavor. Our process is different, that "I am limited. My endeavor is limited. My knowledge is limited. So I cannot realize the unlimited by these limited resources." This is our first submission, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya, that "I am limited; I am not unlimited." That's a fact. So how can I know the unlimited by my limited activities? This is our first submissiveness. Just like in the Vedic literature it is stated that Mahā-Viṣṇu, the plenary expansion of Govinda, from His breathing innumerable universes are coming and going. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). So we cannot conceive even of this universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth. How it became yours? But they have no sense. "It is mine." "Fight." "My land, my nation, my family, my society." In this way, wasting time. These things have been introduced by these western mlecchas. In the Vedic civilization there is no such thing as nationalism. You won't find. Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gītā any word, "nationalism?" No such thing.
Prabhupāda: And you do it for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, it is bhakti. So therefore they look similar, but the quality is different. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Dhare prema nāma. The gopīs, they acted like prostitutes, but the center was Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ramyā kacid upāsanā vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita (?): "Oh there is no more better mode of worship than it was conceived by the gopīs." What is their conception? Prostitution, that's all. Simple prostitute. Kṛṣṇa was a beautiful boy and they were attracted by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. They wanted Him as their husband, lover, to dance with them. That is the gopīs. And these rascals are taking that "This is very good. Kṛṣṇa also did like this. So let us do; gather some girls and dance, and we become Kṛṣṇa." This is Māyāvāda, Therefore Vyāsadeva has devoted nine cantos just to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then try to understand what is the gopīs' behavior with Kṛṣṇa. But these rascals jump over it. Sahajiyās. Jump over Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs. And that is Bhāgavata. Because rascals, they shall remain rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the thing is that if my life is based on false conception that "I am this body," so the bodily appreciation of beauty or any other thing, that is also false. That is also false. If I am not this body, then anything conceived in relation with this body, that is false. (German)
Vedavyāsa: He says that usually we see the body in connection with beauty or health. But there is another possibility, to use the body as a transparent medium to conceive the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained here. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That means with this body you should not waste your time like the birds and beasts but utilize it for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. That is reality.
Prabhupāda: God has all the qualities that you can conceive. It is generally not... Bhaga(?), it is taken as six, six opulences. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means possessing. Bhagavat. Bhagavat-śabda. Bhaga means opulence, and vat means one who possesses. And the first word in bhagavat-śabda is bhagavān. This bhaga means six kinds of opulences: riches, then fame, then bodily strength, influence, knowledge, beauty, and renunciation. These are opulences. If one is very rich, people are attracted. If one is very reputed, people are attracted. If one is very strong, people are attracted. Influential-attracted. If one is very beautiful, man or woman, he is also attractive. If one is very wise, he's attractive. And one who is renounced, he's also attra... So Kṛṣṇa has got all these qualification in full. That is the definition of God. Anyone who possesses all these qualities in fullness, not partially, that is God. This is the definition of God. Not that "I can produce one ounce of gold," but if he can produce all the mines of gold, he is God. Not cheap God. In that way everyone is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and not abortion, killing, regular killing. Sometimes they kill, the doctors. So it is going to be supported, like that, scientific research?
Guest (1): No, Swamiji, it's a matter of opinion when the mentally fetus becomes an individual. If you think that as soon as it is conceived, it is an individual—of course it is because it's going to grow into one—then of course it's killing.
Prabhupāda: You believe that the child in the womb is not individual?
Guest (1): No, I don't have any personal thoughts about it though. But I think if a woman thinks that she is not suited as a mother...
Prabhupāda: Then why she has sex?
Guest (1): Well, in this present world I think, you know, sex is not for procreation, it is more for fun. I think ninety-nine percent of the couples who indulge in sex do not think of children at that time.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means God has no material form, but He has form; otherwise how He can accept? How He can understand my love? So therefore in the original Islamism the form is not accepted. So that is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form, and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are. I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form not I am. But wherefrom the form of the body came into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand because I have got hand.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering.
Prabhupāda: "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. They are thinking God a person like me, like himself. That is foolishness. They cannot conceive that a person can become so powerful than myself. That is the defect. A person has acintya-śakti, acintya-śakti, inconceivable power. Now, just like you are person. You cut your hair. It is growing. Do you know how it is growing?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Even it is beyond your conception, what to speak of others. But it is growing. It is... If there is any scar or if the nail is broken some way or other, it will come out. But... You cannot manufacture it by conceiving. But it is coming out. That means within you there is an inconceivable power. So if you have got, an ordinary human being, so much inconceivable power, how much God has got inconceivable power. That is God.
Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.
Prof. Hopkins: Viṣṇu. Pañca (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But after you are per..., become, you are perfect, then you merge into the impersonal. That is Śaṅkara.
Prof. Hopkins: You would see all worshipers of Śiva as following basically that idea.
Prabhupāda: No, there are devotees. Just like we, we offer all respect to Lord Śiva. We consider Śiva as the best of the Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇavānām yathā śambhu. And we have got sampradāya from Śiva. He is considered one of the authority of Vaiṣṇavism.
Prof. Hopkins: So you would, you would include...
Prabhupāda: Our conception of Śiva is different.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But science tries to understand what is life and in order to do that they just want to understand what is cell. Because science tries to understand what is life, and in order to do that they just want to study what is the cell because cells are the smallest living units of life. That is their understanding. So once they understand what a cell is, then they know what life is. That is their aim. So if the cells and the jīvātmā within the heart, they are different and they are independent, then they cannot conceive of just having a jīvātmā in the heart.
Prabhupāda: That... The particular jīvātmā who has been given this body, he is living in the heart.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But according to the scientists, our body is made up of little cells just like a brick wall is made up of so many individual bricks. Each... Like in one piece of skin there is...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is body. Just like I live in a house. The house is made of so many bricks. But I am not brick.
Prabhupāda: Man makes order?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is... Your idea is that he conceives of the order. But actually there is no order, but he...
Prabhupāda: When there is cyclone, man can stop?
Cyavana: For example this beach is all disorder. There is so much rubbish there. There is no order to this world. So how can there be any higher authority...
Prabhupāda: So what you can do?
Cyavana: I cannot accept that there is a higher authority when everything is simply disorganized. These trees are broken, the...
Prabhupāda: It is organized. It is organized. For thousands of years the sea is there, the beach is there. So sea cannot come here. This is order.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here people take in consideration of his position. That is rascaldom. One should not think... There are varieties of life. And how they're in the sun? There is life. So you cannot conceive that there is life in the sun, but there is life. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa went there and talked with the president of the sun? The president means he's alone there? President means there is kingdom. They have got body made of fire. Can you imagine there can be body made of fire?
Indian man: If Kṛṣṇa says, then there must be.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is our business. But you cannot interpret. They cannot accommodate within their tiny brain what is going on in the creation. They think in their own way. That's it. Now, they say that the water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen. And who supplied so much hydrogen, oxygen?
Prabhupāda: That is their defect. If my dream is wrong, why your dream should be right? That they did not conceive of, that "My dream is right(?)." And if you say that "Your dream is also wrong," yes, I do not dream. I take the facts from the authority. We do not dream. Dream is dream, either yours or mine. It doesn't matter.
Brahmānanda: Well, some people question whether that Aquarian Gospel is authority.
Prabhupāda: Why Bible is authority? Who cares for Bible? Nobody cares for Bible. So there, some supporter for some book, these, you will always find it. Huh? Now they are decrying, deriding Bible also. So how do you say that Bible is authority when so many things have changed?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Then why do you say nonsense! If you have not enough power there must be somebody powerful than you—you have to admit that—who has made all these things. But you are rascal you have not... You are simply, ahh, what is called? Speculating. That in future we shall be powerful. But the powerful is already there. What is your credit? More powerful-) you cannot conceive even how powerful He a scientist. Huh? Is that alright? What is your value? The already powerful is there, who has manufactured these things. And you are expecting in future you'll be powerful; therefore you are more powerful. Just see their folly. If you are powerful then make it, another imitation sun.
Harikeśa: (half joking) I'm seriously speaking, if we made another one the whole place would become too hot.
Prabhupāda: Hah. So you are scientist, you protect yourself.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Necessity means there is. Otherwise why necessity? When you feel hungry, the necessity of food, food is there. The necessity of light, the sun is there.
Devotee (4): Do you mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order to conceive of something, a thing must be there?
Prabhupāda: There is no "conceive." Necessity. You require it. Just like when you're hungry you require food. Food is there. The eyes want to see; therefore the object of seeing is there. The hand wants to touch, so the object of touching is there. The nose wants to smell: the object of smell is there. So as soon as you feel necessity, the thing is there.
Hari-śauri: And it's there even if you don't feel the necessity.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they want that disturbance. He's trying to be happy, but they do not know what is eternal happiness. We're also trying for happiness, but our aim is eternal happiness.
Devotee (3): They think that eternal happiness means the same happiness that we experience in the material world, but it lasts forever, because they cannot conceive of a different quality of blissfulness.
Prabhupāda: This is difference. One is eternal; one is temporary and miserable. Although it is so-called happiness, it is temporary. At any moment it is finished. Actually there is no happiness. Still, even they consider this is happiness, that is temporary. You cannot enjoy. At any moment you'll be finished. Just like the surfers, they're enjoying happiness. At any moment they can be finished.
Devotee (3): Danger also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any moment.
Prabhupāda: The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part. We have already understood in the Second Chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces. This fragment is not materially conceived. It is not like matter which can be cut into pieces and joined together again. That conception is not applicable here because the Sanskrit word sanātana, 'eternal,' is used. The fragmental portion is eternal. It is also stated in the beginning of the Second Chapter that dehino 'smin yathā—in each and every individual body, the fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is present. That fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original spiritual body in the spiritual sky in a spiritual planet and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord. It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold."
Hṛdayānanda:
"Money is so dear that one conceives of money as being sweeter than honey. Therefore, who can give up the desire to accumulate money, especially in household life? Thieves, professional servants, soldiers and merchants try to acquire money even..."
Prabhupāda: Here is a very nice example. Soldiers. They know "We are going to give up our life." And what for? "Money." (laughs) They are prepared to give up life for money. Money is so sweeter than honey. (laughs) And thieves, they go at night for burglary. He knows that "If I trespass anyone's house, he can kill me immediately." But still he takes the risk for money. That is all explained here. What is the verse?
Hṛdayānanda: "Thieves, professional servants, soldiers and merchants try to acquire money even by risking their very dear lives."
Prabhupāda: No... The whole world.
Rāmeśvara: Full of cows.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, a few years ago we couldn't conceive of distributing twenty thousand Back to Godheads a month.
Prabhupāda: We started with five hundred. What was that machine?
Kīrtanānanda: Mimeograph. Then I think it went to two thousand then to five thousand.
Rāmeśvara: Now for December we are printing two million copies. Last year we printed one million copies, so this year we must double. Two million copies in one month.
Kīrtanānanda: Wonderful.
Prabhupāda: It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. You have seen the first copy? They have brought photograph from which library?
Prabhupāda: We can actually understand Kṛṣṇa who is eternal, full of bliss and knowledge, simply by studying His words in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The impersonal Brahman can be conceived by persons who are already in the inferior energy of the Lord, but the Personality of Godhead cannot be conceived unless one is in the transcendental position. Because most men cannot understand Kṛṣṇa in His actual situation, out of His causeless mercy He descends to show favor to such speculators. Yet despite the Supreme Lord's uncommon activities, these speculators, due to contamination in the material energy, still think that the impersonal Brahman is the Supreme. Only the devotees who are fully surrendered unto the Supreme Lord can understand, by the grace of the Lord, that He is Kṛṣṇa. The devotees of the Lord do not bother about the impersonal Brahman conception of God. Their faith and devotion bring them to surrender immediately unto the Supreme Lord, and out of the causeless mercy of Kṛṣṇa, they can understand Kṛṣṇa. No one else can understand Him. So even great sages agree, 'What is ātmā? What is the Supreme?
Prabhupāda: We have got idea, breathing period. Within second we are having two, three breathing. So within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu innumerable universes are coming out. This is greatness. How great is God, it is same idea, that within the breathing period innumerable universes are coming. We cannot conceive of one universe, but we get the information that innumerable universes are coming out during the breathing period. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). That Mahā-Viṣṇu, yasya kalā-viśeṣa, part and plenary portion, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So when we speak all these things, they'll take it mythology. And a cheap god comes, we'll accept, "Here is God." This is the position. They do not try to understand that actually God is great, how great He is. That is called kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya, Dr. Frog's philosophy. Dr. Frog is within the well, three feet length and breadth. He's thinking, "This is the ultimate reservoir of water."
Prabhupāda: Everything is possible by Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. It is called therefore "inconceivable." You, we cannot conceive how it is done. Our intelligence is very little. We cannot conceive. Therefore we say, "Oh, this is all mythology." Because we cannot conceive of it. Whatever we cannot conceive we take it as mythology. Nothing is mythology. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. But they cannot understand what is inconceivable. Unless it is conceivable by them, they do not accept. That is their foolishness. We can see at night worms or flies so small Just like if you divide one grain of rice into one hundred divisions one division—such a small fly. They are independently walking, flying. Freedom. Now just imagine how their anatomic physiology is manufactured within that small (indistinct) of life. But he's exactly doing everything just like a big fly. How it is doing? Therefore I said in that, my interview.
Hari-śauri: It's a long one. "I have been looking for a spontaneous generation for twenty years without discovering it. Now I do not judge it impossible, but what allows you to make it, 'the origin of life'? You place matter before life, and you decide that matter has existed for all eternity. How do you know that the incessant progress of science will not compel scientists to consider that life has existed during eternity and not matter? You pass from matter to life because your intelligence of today cannot conceive things otherwise. How do you know that in ten thousand years one will not consider it more likely that matter has emerged from life?"
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is exactly what we say, what Prabhupāda says.
Hari-śauri: Louis Pasteur.
Prabhupāda: Yes, matter has come from life.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good. The more you distribute books, the more you are blessed. There is no more or less. Everyone is blessed... (laughter) There is no such discrimination, but still, there is some competition. (laughter) In Vṛndāvana there is no discrimination that gopīs are the highest and others... No. Every one is all right. Still, from neutral point of view, the gopīs are the highest. Caitanya Mahāprabhu..., ramya kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhu vargabhir ya kalpita,(?) that "There is no standard of worship, what was conceived by the gopīs." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. There is no distinction between the cowherd boys and the gopīs or the trees and the flowers and the calves and cows. It is the absolute platform. But still, in the spiritual world also there is distinction between living entities. That is variety, spiritual variety, viśeṣavāda.
Guest (2): The point is for ordinary men it is very difficult to conceive of a naked soul.
Prabhupāda: So ordinary man is foolish. Learned man is intelligent
Guest (2): But it is very difficult to think of a naked soul.
Prabhupāda: Naked, there is no question of... Naked soul is there, but you have no eyes to see it. Naked soul is there, but it is so small you cannot see it. The dimension of the naked soul is given in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is not possible to see by your these present eyes. But there is. There is no doubt about it.
Indian man: How is it opened, the eyes?
Prabhupāda: By knowledge, therefore... So therefore Kṛṣṇa giving you the knowledge. That you have to hear. Knowledge which you cannot experience by your senses at the present moment, you have to hear from the authority. Avan manasa-gocara. Which is beyond your mind and intelligence, you have to hear from the authority. Just like father. If one wants to know who is father, he cannot see it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is reasonable. But so were your reasons. Just like when you met with the reporter from Los Angeles Times, I remember last year... When this question comes up they, inside they are laughing. When they hear our opinion they think it is a joke. They cannot conceive that the whole thing could be a hoax. We were discussing that actually, that the nation is more dear to most people than their family is, because one will get divorced from his family, but who will give up citizenship? Very rarely does anyone give up his citizenship. But people divorce again and again. So to... The nation is something very strong, that affection, and nation, in America, means this moon shot, all of these things, the truthfulness of the leaders. So this is too shocking. Probably the American people could not swallow it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Lie.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Why no other newspaper carried the story?
Prabhupāda: No, near Goa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole thing was conceived by this Aurobindo.
Prabhupāda: He wanted to leave British possessions. No, Pondicherry was French.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, French. So that Pondicherry was Aurobindo's idea? What was the motive?
Prabhupāda: He wanted to become a famous yogi to bring the world atmosphere in order.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complete failure.
Prabhupāda: Complete failure. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: (BG 8.15) "It is a place for suffering." This rascal wanted to make it for enjoyment. Everyone is trying. Everyone is trying to make the commode a very nice room.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-prema: First we should reply it is acintya. This should be the reply. "Inconceivable."
Yaśodā-nandana: If it is inconceivable, then they will say how we can conceive it?
Prabhupāda: Take the version of Bhāgavatam.
Bhakti-prema: Everything we conceived, that is wrong?
Prabhupāda: Everything you conceived, that is wrong. Yes. Therefore inconceivable.
Bhakti-prema: The Lord is inconceivable always and any (indistinct), it is inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: But we have to accept śāstra.
Prabhupāda: We are not lying to you.
Bhakti-prema: ...draw.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're drawing according to the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: We're not conceiving it. It is already there.
Bhakti-prema: Then it is conceived, he says.
Prabhupāda: Conceived not by me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not by us. By the Unlimited.
Prabhupāda: I am imperfect. That is the difference.
Bhakti-prema: Yes. It is conceivable by you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: By Śukadeva... Not even Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He says śuśruma.
One should therefore surrender unto Him if one wants to know Him as He is and that is the real process to approach the Infinite by the infinitesimals.
9) Sri Krishna is easily available by the religion of love i.e. by love and service as conceived by the damsels of Vraja who had practically no education whatsoever and much less any claim for high class birth right.
10) The highest service that can be rendered to the mankind is, therefore, to preach the philosophy and religion of Bhagavad-gita for all the times, all the places and all the people.
I hope you may agree with me and thus make a combined effort in this direction for the benefit of the mankind.
Visnu's wife, Laksmi, was present there. She was just massaging the Lord's leg, and the Lord avoided her and produced a child. Here in the material world, without the assistance of the wife, nobody can produce a child. But there is the tangible example, that Visnu, without any sex life with wife He produced a child. In the material sense, we cannot conceive how a child can take birth without being born through the abdomen of one woman. Therefore, Krishna being both father and mother, He can be addressed also as mother. That is His all-powerful strength. He is full in Himself. He does not require anyone's help, therefore, He is both father and mother. I think this will clear your idea.
It is our material thinking that is hindering us. You are thinking male, of the material world, and a male in the material world cannot produce a child. And if you think also that Krishna is mother, again you are thinking with material conception.
This natural environment for living in pure Krsna consciousness or plain living and high thinking develops the spiritual character of the inhabitants and especially the Society's children who are conceived, born, raised and educated in Krsna science or natural spiritual consciousness. New Vrndavana school system provides education for children which is both practical and spiritual.
This site situated in the midst of the beautiful West Virginia mountains provides an ideal setting for demonstrating the simplicity of naturalistic living based on brahminical culture and cow protection in Krsna consciousness. Cow protection practically solves the problems of sustenance and the greater portion of time of the devotees, being not engaged in the frantic scramble of materialistic competition for food and shelter, is kept engaged in the pursuit of spiritual perfection.
The Gopis' position is always transcendental. They are above karmis, yogis and jnanis. They did not even try to understand Krishna whether He was God or not, but their love for Krishna was unparalleled. So one can love Krishna without any inquiry; that is the highest perfection. To know Krishna as God is not so exalted a position as to love Krishna without knowing. That is the highest perfection. Knowledge means discrimination. The gopis loved Krishna without discrimination. They loved Him spontaneously as He was very beautiful in the view of the gopis. The objective being transcendental, all of the gopis' activities were transcendental. There is no comparison of worshiping of Krishna as conceived by the gopis—that is only to love Krishna without any purpose.
| Page Title: | Conceive (Conv. & Letters) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari, Mayapur |
| Created: | 14 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=4 |
| No. of Quotes: | 60 |