Communism (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"communism" |"communist" |"communistic" |"communists"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: So why they cannot produce sufficient, such a big country?

Gurukeśa: And Eastern Europe, which is also communist, gets all its supplies from...

Prabhupāda: No, what is their explanation. Russia is the biggest country.

Gurukeśa: Land.

Hari-śauri: The reason was that there was no rain.

Prabhupāda: Then? Then you have to depend on rain, and when we say, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ... Hm? And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). That means, rascal, you take one side, that ardha-kukuti-nyāya. Cut the chicken half, and separate the mouth—it is expensive—and keep the rear side. You get eggs. (laughter) So this is ardha-kukuṭi-nyāya. The rascal does not know that if you separate the mouth there will be no egg.

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible to give up authority. That is not possible.

Hṛdayānanda: Your interview, those articles that you had spoken about, against Communism, are very, very brilliant. Actually we were struck with wonder to see the different arguments. Very, very important for South America because there the Communism is popular among the young students.

Prabhupāda: They read it?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, we just published it in our magazine.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So they like that argument?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, the argument was so intelligent that no one has ever thought of such intelligent arguments against Communism. Also the article on Freud, I think that book is very, very important. It will actually satisfy the students. No one else would dare to call these people fools. (laughter) (end)

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So you are all soldiers. Even if you lay down your life by fighting, you are recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will see that "This devotee has laid down his life," so He'll... He's... Asaṁśayam. Asaṁśayam. Mām evaiśyasy asaṁśayam. So let us go on fighting. Even we die, what is that? We are going back to... Jīvo vā māro vā. A Vaiṣṇava, a sādhu, either he lives or dies, he is under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvo vā māro vā. (break) So if he dies in the battlefield, he goes to heaven.

Acyutānanda: (break) Now, in the past year, though, Communism has come under many attacks in the magazines and newspapers.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Acyutānanda: Communism has been openly attacked as failure.

Prabhupāda: Communism?

Acyutānanda: Yes, many places.

Prabhupāda: It is a failure.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are greedy.

Acyutānanda: Plus they are low class.

Guru-kṛpā: Plus the worst thing is that they do not accept any form of religion whatsoever.

Acyutānanda: The, the Russian atheist Communism was because the Christian Church used to favor the vaiśyas, so they buried them together. In their hatred for the vaiśyas, the Church also was buried. Very blind, that.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's always been one of the main criticisms against the Catholic Church. They have so much money and land.

Acyutānanda: He said, "Religion is the opiate of the people." So there was a cartoon that Marx came back in 1976, and they said, "No, opium is the religion of the people."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Acyutānanda: "Now opium is the religion of the people because everyone is taking drugs. You say religion is the opiate. Now opium is the religion." They think there should be no private property. There was... They are discussing this in Indian Parliament now. They should abolish private property and abol... Women should not wear ornaments.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break)... gradually no simple life. Struggle for existence, very, very...

Acyutānanda: People confuse change for progress. When it is just changed and done in a more complicated way, they think it is called progress. That is also the Communist thing when there is protest: "Oh, well, you have to accept change. It's natural. It's a natural change."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is communal thought.

Acyutānanda: "Times are changing. You have to move. You have to change with the time."

Dayānanda: Mao says, "Revolution, constant revolution."

Acyutānanda: Yes. I asked one man. I said, "What do you have to show? What is the results? What is the results of the change? The people are still living in a hut." He says, "The struggle is what we have to show, that we had a struggle. People are not just sitting by and being exploited, but they are now struggling."

Prabhupāda: No, that is already found...

Morning Walk -- February 25, 1976, Mayapura:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Once they buy, then the other Eastern European countries will also buy, may buy.

Prabhupāda: No, other countries, they are purchasing.

Indian man (1): Other...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: East European countries like Poland, and these are all in the Communist block.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if Moscow buys, purchases, that is...

Jayapatākā: If we translate into Russian then they'll probably take.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we shall consult. First of all, let them take. Then we shall propose them.

Jagadīśa: Actually, Bhagavad-gītā has already been translated into Russian. I have seen one copy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have translated a lot of books like Rāmāyaṇa also in Russian.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we shall consult. First of all, let them take. Then we shall propose them.

Jagadīśa: Actually, Bhagavad-gītā has already been translated into Russian. I have seen one copy. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have translated a lot of books like Rāmāyaṇa also in Russian. Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think they are bona fide translations, not by a devotee. Indian devotee: We have got a Polish devotee in London, a woman, and she's trying to translate. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Harikeśa is trying to go to Hungary. Prabhupāda: Oh. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa Swami. Prabhupāda: That is also Communist? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Russian block. It's in Eastern Europe. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 29, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the real point. All other points besides this, they are Rāvaṇa's point. (Break) ...adjust things, taking Sītā from the clutches of one Rāvaṇa to the another Rāvaṇa. The material... At the present moment... Just like the Communist. They are trying to take away money from the capitalists. So this process is taking Sītā from clutches of Rāvaṇa, and it goes to another Rāvaṇa. Because both of them are Rāvaṇa, so there is no meaning to it. There will be no benefit. It has failed already. The Communist movement, it is simply now Lordism (?). Just like there are many rogues and dacoits. They plunder money and sometimes give to the poor. So this is another edition of the same thing, one Rāvaṇa to another Rāvaṇa. Just like Ramakrishna Mission-daridra-nārāyaṇa-theory only, and that is also not perfect. It cannot be perfect. Communist theory is to take the money from the capitalists and distribute it to the poor, to the mass people.

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Ah, everything, yes. Roti is there, kaparā is there, and makān is there. And wherefrom it is coming? Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth. Why you are after factories? The mother earth is giving you everything. Therefore he's called mother. Seven mothers... One of the mothers is this earth. Dhenu dhātrī tathā pṛthvi sapteti mātari smṛtāḥ. Dhenu means cow, and dhātrī means nurse. Tathā pṛthvi. Pṛthvi means this land. So they are taking care of the land, nationalists, and killing the other mother, dhenu. A rascal civilization. If you are taking care of mother, you must take care of all mothers. No, they are mad after the land, but killing the other mother, dhenu. This is called rascaldom. (break) ...to give all comforts to the human brother, and they are sending the animal brother to slaughterhouse. What is this Communist? If you are Communist, if you are equal to all your brothers, why you should discriminate? And our communism is that even there is a snake in your home, you must see that he is not starving. This is spiritual communism. Nobody likes snake. Everyone kills. But śāstra says, "Even a snake is there at your home, you must see that he's not starving." This is communism, perfect. What are these he is collecting?

Devotee: Eggplant.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Who are these men?

Bhavānanda: They are the paṇḍal workers.

Prabhupāda: Paṇḍal work... (break) Always, what is called...? Communism. They say, whole world, "We are Communists," "We are capitalists," "We are socialists," and "We are nonviolent," "We are violent."

Madhudviṣa: Dualism.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Dualism?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not dualism. How many isms, nobody knows. But... What is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So we should not bring that attitude in our society. That is my request.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You talk on reasonable ground, that "You are in favor of giving everyone the same facility. So what do you mean by 'everyone'? Why you are selecting only your countrymen? Why? 'Everyone' means every living being." So what is their answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we agree to spread communism all over the world, and we'll give everyone equal rights.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So equal rights, why not to the animals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're not as important, they'll argue. They'll say that they're not as important. They're not so intelligent. They're just animals.

Prabhupāda: Animals, but it appears to me that there are many men like animals, so why you are giving facility to them?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they can be elevated to the point of being men again.

Prabhupāda: So elevate them to the right point. Elevate them. You are elevating them only on the platform of eating, sleeping, mating. That is there in the animal. So you have to talk this philosophy. Our philosophy is that expanded—not only human being but animals also. Our philosophy is, if there is one lizard in your room, I should see that he is not starving. This is our philosophy. Not only human being but animals, even an insect. We supply little sugar in the holes of the ant. That is our philosophy. We take any living being is the..., has the same propensity for eating, sleeping. So your economic problem is that "Supply sufficient eating, sleeping." So why not these animals? We have to speak on that platform, that our philosophy is so perfect that we do not neglect even an ant. Make this philosophy. "Why you are limiting within a country or within the human society? Expand it."

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is wanted. Chinese Communist philosophy, does anybody know? What is that? What philosophy? They have got some philosophy.

Hṛdayānanda: They're emphasizing industrial development. Everyone, the entire country, is mobilized for developing industry, economic benefits, so everyone can enjoy nice material life under...

Prabhupāda: And that is the philosophy of the Western countries.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: Actually there is.... There is two factions in the Chinese schools now. One is saying to.... They're both materialistically based, but one is trying to stay on a position of self-sufficiency economically and not take from other countries or even trade, and the other school is to industrialize. And they're always fighting with their...

Prabhupāda: Oh, there are two schools?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpa: If their main leader, Mao Tse Tung.... He's more of that school, but there are.... They call them revisionists. They say they're like the Russians, and that they're just.... They're always attacking them for wanting to copy the West. It's their same attack. They attack the Russians for becoming capitalists. They're puritan. They're trying to have pure communism. They have very great ideals, and the other school wants.... They think that they want to get in on the action of the trade and industrialization. But they are actually about equal in power. It's interesting. Right now, actually, it's very hard to get into China because there's a new feud that has come to the surface. There's top leaders that have been taken through the streets, denounced as being materialists, and they've taken their clothes from their wives' closets with mink coats and fancy clothes...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all.... We shall first of all try to sell our books without any discussion. "As trade..., as trade representative, we have come. See our book." Go to the professors, go to the.... "We have got this support," like that.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...they accept our books, that means gradually they are accepting our philosophy. Not immediately talk about philosophy. Just ordinary bookseller, you have come. (laughter)

Madhudviṣa: Trojan horse.

Siddha-svarūpa: In their schools right now, their colleges, is a center of controversy, education. The one school of thought who are called revisionists—they are compared to the Russians—they say that the schools should be centered almost entirely upon economic development and technology, and that philosophy, Communist philosophy, different.... In other words, different debates or thinking more, philosophically inclined people are rejected, so that now there is a fight between whether or not the schools will be centered simply for economic development or whether they're going to be centers of what they call revolutionary activities, thinking, trying to improve their Communist understanding and Communist ideology and more philosophically inclined. So those who are pushing for greater economic development at the expense of their Communist purity or their philosophical understanding, they are now being attacked.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: Eight years. But the thing is, it's difficult for them to assume or take part in Hong Kong because it represents something like several million capitalists, which they have no use for in their country. For thirty years they've been training people in Communism. Their whole culture is centered around that Chinese language. Our books are in English, but their whole culture is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Chinese Gītā is coming out. It should be ready in two weeks.

Prabhupāda: It is not our policy that the whole country will be on our side. That is not.... At least some of them may be interested. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yaśodānandana Mahārāja says that the Chinese Bhagavad-gītā is ready for publication.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's at the printer. It will be ready in two weeks.

Revatīnandana: Another interesting thing about China is because they have such a huge population, in order to feed the population they've had to turn to production of agricultural products rather than meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only way. That is the only way. If you want to make them happy.... That we are preaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce grains. Everyone will eat nicely, and they will be happy.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpa: The Chinese are very afraid of the Russians, and they are afraid of the Russians in India. They are afraid of Russian-style communism in India, and Russians having bases.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Siddha-svarūpa: A way of preaching is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Vedic communism is the only thing in India that would ultimately defeat the Russian-style communism. Then they would very much appreciate it. If they saw that India would go communist, then they'd rather have it Vedic communist than Russian communist. Their theory is that everybody must go communist for people to be, feel satisfied. (break)

Madhudviṣa: That's their feeling.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of people come every day.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Bengali) (break) ...be print in a booklet, that will help us.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So before they became communist, they had some leader or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the Czar in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Czar was the leader in Russia.

Jayatīrtha: And Chiang Kai-shek in China.

Prabhupāda: So why they changed their leader?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a revolution.

Madhudviṣa: People were unsatisfied.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: People were not satisfied with the government. There was a revolution.

Prabhupāda: No, people were not satisfied... The principle, what is the principle? To have better leader. Is it not? So if they get still better leader, why they will not change?

Madhudviṣa: They would say it's not the leader but it's the system.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The system is done by some leaders. Anything... Just like our, this system we have introduced. I am the leader. Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. So if the communists and those who have brain, if they find a better leader for better situation, why they'll not? And they want for revolution also. They are in favor of revolution. Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. That is their theory. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. So why they will not accept another revolution for further advancement?

Madhudviṣa: One of the main problems I can see is to divorce our movement from religious concept because...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Mahendra: In these Communist countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, such as Russia...

Prabhupāda: Not Communist country, everywhere, a pilot is required. Not Communist country.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Every country has a leader.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these... All this ism, Communism, this ism, this ism, beginning from that Greek history, so many changes have been made in Europe, leaders, sometimes Napoleon, sometimes Mussolini, sometimes Hitler. It is going on. So where is the perfect situation? You have changed so many leaders for so many years in the history, but where is your perfect situation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one leader, and our situation is perfect, and we are not changing that leader.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfection. We have taken Kṛṣṇa as leader. We are not taking any other leader.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune. Just like father says, "Child do this," but he does not do. Father says, "Don't touch fire;" he touches, so he'll suffer.

Madhudviṣa: They can also say that about their leader. They can say that according to Marx, if everyone followed Marx purely, then the Communist system would be running on...

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the purity?

Madhudviṣa: Well, the pure Communist philosophy.

Prabhupāda: What is that pure Communist philosophy? State. We state, "This is our philosophy." What is the Marx philosophy?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ultimately, they say there should be no leader. Everything will work automatically.

Prabhupāda: But you have leader, rascal. Why do you say no leader? Immediately take shoes and beat with them.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Madhudviṣa: But the leader should not be a person which is held in esteem for his personality but simply a person who is guiding the system.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Then that is Kṛṣṇa. He is giving this leader. This is a fact.

Trivikrama: And their leader can never be perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Trivikrama: The Communist leader.

Prabhupāda: You can become perfect if you follow a perfect leader. That's all.

Lokanātha: Just like some gurus say there is no need of guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The trouble is, their system is not perfect. Our system is...

Prabhupāda: How it can be? Because the leader who introduced this system is a rascal, so how the system can be perfect?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like you pointed out yesterday that Communism holds that everyone should have an equal right, but, you pointed out, then why do they limit that simply to human beings?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then why you change? Why you change?

Devotee: They don't change. They follow Mao.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They... They say there is necessity of revolution. The Communist theory they accept, that periodically there is need of revolution.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But it all culminates.

Madhudviṣa: That's not to change. That's not to change.

Prabhupāda: You have change, change of the system.

Madhudviṣa: No, that's not to change the system. That's to purify it.

Prabhupāda: That change of the leader...

Madhudviṣa: That's to purge the system.

Revatīnandana: Continuous purification.

Prabhupāda: That's means... Purge out means it is not perfect.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is your imperfection.

Madhudviṣa: So they will say that is the imperfection in Communism, also, that the system is perfect but we have imperfect people.

Prabhupāda: But if there is an ism where there is no such defects, why should you not accept it?

Madhudviṣa: But there is defects, though.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can point out even within our own movement the different people who don't follow.

Trivikrama: Don't follow but the system is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they'll say their system is also perfect, but there's some that don't follow.

Trivikrama: No, but their system is not perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That you have to establish.

Bhāgavata: So it didn't save the man who created it. The man who founded the philosophy, it didn't save him.

Madhudviṣa: What does it mean the saving? He died like everyone else.

Trivikrama: Saving means saving from lust and all these things. There's so much... They're servants of their senses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone requires leader, yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So you can send me at half past one?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, it can be kept warm very easily. Hot capatis, he says, for hundreds of people.

Prabhupāda: Hot. That is wanted. That I had asked. Therefore it is so filling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everything is hot. (break) ...so...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Prasādam, when it is supplied from the temple, in any condition it is prasādam. So communists should be impressed that "You are trying to establish a perfect society. That is your philosophy. So unless there is perfect leader, how you can establish?" This is the way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we know what the qualities of a perfect leader are. "We don't find that you have any such persons."

Prabhupāda: No, phalena paricīyate, by result. (kīrtana as they approach temple) (end)

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (2): Were they receptive to what you...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by Professor Kotovsky to talk. On my way to Europe I stayed there. So I have studied the people. They are very good, as our Indian people, innocent masses, they are also like that. But they are being sophisticated by their new philosophy, communism, artificial thing. But they are not happy. They are being forced to accept a philosophy. People are.... I have seen from their face. They look unhappy. Everything dependent on government. You have to accept. You cannot select your food even. Whatever nonsense things the government will supply, you have to accept, even you don't like it. And for us it was a great difficulty. We could not get rice, could not get flour, neither fruit. Only milk is available and flesh, as much as you like. So on the whole, it was artificial and people are not happy.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, for village the government is not going to keep such nice road. This government department, forest department.... The government policy is to develop these places for industry in future. This industry is the cause of falldown of the human society—industry. So the reaction is.... The industry, two things required—four things required: land, labor, capital, and organization. So now the industry is going on, and the capitalists and labor, there is fight. The laborers, they are finding out that "We are working. Why the capitalists will take the profit?" This is communism. Is it not?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the Communists, they are thinking, "By changing the hand, things will improve." But they do not know that very industry is the cause of falldown. They're simply trying to change the hand. The principle should go on, industry, only the proposal is that the capitalists should give up and the workers should take it.

Devotee (2): Which way is India headed towards? The capitalists or the Communists?

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: If they start reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, then Karl Marx will be lost because the sanātana-dharma is a spiritual communism in fact.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru dāsa: The only difference is that the guru never ends.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guru dāsa: The guru never goes out of office.

Dr. Patel: Sanātana is eternal. It is eternal religion. It is the religion of the soul and not of the body, dies. Soul is eternal, so religion is eternal. I am right, sir?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sanātana means eternal.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That's right. So now they have started reading all these, our books. They will now make amendment on it. As you said, they will thesis, synthesis. The present practice of communism in Russia is much more diluted than what it was twenty, thirty years back.

Prabhupāda: It should be.

Dr. Patel: And it will be like India after twenty years.

Guru dāsa: The result is that the biggest problem in Russia is that no one comes to work-absenteeism.

Dr. Patel: That will be here also. I have been to Ceylon, sir. And in Colombo they are giving free ration to the people. I mean, the rice.

Prabhupāda: There is a story in Bengal. (Bengali) The woman had seven sons. The mother requested first son, "My dear boy, now I am going to die. Take me to the Ganges side." He said, "Why? You have got so many other sons, why you are requesting me?"

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to nullify this, that "I don't possess anything; God possess everything." Then it is perfection.

Dr. Patel: No, that is why, sir, this communism cannot survive, because they say that afterward the state will vanish. It will evaporate. How can it evaporate without spiritualism there at the back? They have a materialistic ideology and material, I mean, there are changes. There is nothing permanent in material. So the communism, so-called material communism, dialectic materialism of Karl Marx, are not full. (break)

Guru dāsa: Your name is man, and Dr. Patel.... You've been given a title, "Dr. Patel."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda gave an example that if you see a note on the floor...

Dr. Patel: Only name of God has value.

Prabhupāda: Practical application.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And here are the surrendered souls. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro. "Even they have got some bad symptoms," bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, "but if he is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious," sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), "he is sādhu." So if we want to make the whole world sādhu, perfect human being, then we have to push on this movement without any hesitation. All people will be sādhu, and then there will be peace and prosperity.

Dr. Patel: You mean bring about the spiritual communism of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That is real com... Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They are stating, "Everything belongs to the state." Why you are limiting? State is limited. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect communism.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Bible it says, "On earth as it is in heaven," that the life on earth should be also under the domain of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But there is no program how to actually do that.

Prabhupāda: No, program is there. Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Do this program, execute," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... Program is there, but rascal will not take it. There is no difficulty.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not only that, they are interested in reading our books. We have received letter. We are sending representative.

Dr. Patel: That communism is lost now.

Prabhupāda: No, communism is lost not. We do not say that you stop anything, but you make the center Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is zero. Zero, if you increase the number of zero, it is always zero. But put Kṛṣṇa or one by the side of zero, it becomes ten, hundred, thousand, lakhs.

Dr. Patel: Millions.

Prabhupāda: So we... Our propaganda is bring Kṛṣṇa; then your zeros will be valued. Otherwise you are zeros.

Dr. Patel: Sir, they were saying that religion is an opium.

Prabhupāda: Yes, opium is very good sometimes. He is right. Tincture opium. Yes. Yes. All the drugs are used. You know very well.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The spirit is more important than material.

Prabhupāda: No, their teaching is to become some strong atheist, because religion has been exploited by the so-called religious leaders. That is the difficulty. So they have become atheist.

Dr. Patel: Unless they change their very principle on which they are working. That is why I say we must spread the spiritual communism, sir, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only way. The other day I talked about the dialectical materialism. That is the crux of the whole communism.

Prabhupāda: The communism will be immediately perfect as soon as it is connected with Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: But that is, sir... I mean, our sanātana-dharma is spiritual communism. That is what we actually try to preach them.

Prabhupāda: But you have lost it. You have lost it.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No jobs.

Dr. Patel: (break) You have to employ yourself, sir, here.

Prabhupāda: So many Ph.D.'s, they are loitering. Therefore they become Communists and this, what is called? Naxalites. Educated young boys, they have no job.

Dr. Patel: These two parts of India... (Hindi) Bengal and Kerala, they're highly educated communities. They are the, I mean, advanced Communists also, both the countries. In Gujarat there is no communism, though we are educated. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Just like assassin is aside.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And otherwise you will find Caitanya and other, so many big, big men. Rabindranath Tagore, Surendranath Bannerjee, Vivekananda, and so on, so on. (Hindi) Aurobindo was condemned to death.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But you must know first of all what is the aim of life and what is better. That we must know. So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that we are not interested in God; then whole thing is spoiled. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are not interested in God. We want to be happy by adjusting the external energy of God. That is blind leadership. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This will never be successful, and it is blind leadership because we do not know what is the aim. If you know the aim of life and if we make program according to that aim, then it will be successful. Blindly everyone is manufacturing his objective, different leaders, different isms. The Communists, they have got different aims. The capitalists, they have got different aims. The socialists, they have got different aims.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His father has been giving us.... Of course, it was.... We have been approaching him through the aspect of doing business in China. His father is encouraging us in the sense that he is seeing Dhṛṣṭadyumna.... Like whenever we visit him, we come in our suits, and his father is seeing that.... He is encouraging him also because he's taking some, what he calls a very, what would you say, a responsible position, attempting to do some business. So he's been giving us letters on his company's letterhead. Just like this is a letter to the director of the Department of Commerce of the United States. We've seen a number of people. We've been visiting different directors. First thing we did when we went back is after meeting him, we got many books on China. Some of the examples are, just like this.... We read about twenty-five books. We've studied up very thoroughly and researched everything about China. Here is a book, The Religious Policy and Practice in Communist China. It describes everything about religion there. So we thoroughly read this book. Then there's other books, books on education, we read books on history...

Prabhupāda: Chinese people, they are trying to raise their standard of civilization. Do they?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Materialism means capitalism.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well, they want communistic materialism. In other words, by creating, forming communes, everyone will get equal portion of food and bedding and clothing and medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. A man's tendency is that everyone wants to get more. So how they will check it? This is already proved in Russia.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They condemn Russia. They say Russia is a failure.

Prabhupāda: And similarly, they will have to condemn. If they follow the wrong path, they will have the wrong result. This is not...

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So that is artificial way of.... Unless one is prepared to.... Just like why they are inducing persons to sacrifice their accumulated wealth for the state? Why? Communistic idea that everyone should be equal. So if somebody has more than others, they want to take it away. Just like in India this policy is now growing. So everyone should give away, but now it is being done by law, by force. But that will not stay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We also agree it's a failure.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is bound to fail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you voluntarily give, it will be failure. You will try to find out ways how you can take everything.... Just like income tax. The government is trying to take more money from the public, and public is hiding them in black market. This is going on. Nobody is.... Even your Nixon, he also hidden some money from the income tax. Why? He is the head of the government. So one side, he is head of the government, try to take money from the public, but he personally himself, he is hiding. Why this defect?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, general. But you know how to make general mass of people happy. That example we give, that the whole body.... You can make the whole body happy simply by supplying food to the stomach. That is the best way. And if you want to make happy every part of the body, individual, that will never be successful. You must know where to touch. Just like the huge machine is going on by the expert manipulation of the pilot. He is pushing one.... Works. Immediately the plane becomes.... It is.... So you must know where to touch. If.... I am layman, I am put into that, then, instead of putting here, I shall put my here, and then it will go down. "Ohhh." So finished. So this is nature's way, that you supply food to the stomach, and the energy will be distributed every part. You supply water to the root of the tree, it will be supplied everywhere. That you must know. Otherwise, if you.... Just like if you do not know, a expert, not expert, so he's advised, "Give to, the food to the stomach." "And in where?" "No, in the hole of the body." If he does not, which hole, then he will put somewhere, sometimes here, sometimes here, sometimes here, sometimes here. It will never act. Then you must know the science how to make everyone happy. If you do not know that, then your imperfect imagination will never be done, and that has become everywhere. Why there is difference of opinion even both of the communistic countries? Why there is difference of opinion between Russia and China? Because both of you do not know how to make everyone happy. That is the point.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it was Vedic. They had a brāhmaṇa community. They called them scholars who were advising. And they had administrators, and they had workers. Now the current Communists, they are against that system. They say this system was the worst system of all because it made some big and some small. Because naturally it became...

Prabhupāda: But you are doing the same thing. Otherwise why you are reforming? Who is reforming unless the one class is very intelligent? The same situation. You.... Your, what is that rascal's name?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mao Tse Tung.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mao. Mao.

Prabhupāda: So he is supposed to be intelligent. He is supposed to be intelligent. So the two classes already there.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The man we spoke to, when he heard what we wanted to do, he said, "Boys, you're up against the wall." He said, "You're up against the Great Wall." China has a wall called the Great Wall. He said, "You've come up against the Great Wall. You'll never cross it."

Prabhupāda: No, they'll be.... Nature's law is so strong that they are also trying to knock their head in the wall. They will themselves break their head. The laws of nature is the same. If you try to break the walls from this side and if they try to break the walls from that side, both of them will lose their head. So if they are so foolish.... They are foolish. Everywhere such foolish men are there. They are trying to overcome the laws of nature. That is the greatest foolishness. That is the greatest foolishness. Just like government has got police force, military force, and if somebody tries to become, violate the laws of government by defying police force and military force—that is futile. Is it possible, that "I shall defy the government laws"? No, there is police force. There is military. "I don't care for that." It is foolishness. It is simply foolishness. Similarly, these laws of nature means the force of the Supreme. So if you want to defy, you may waste your time. It is not possible. And practically, Kṛṣṇa says, "Here I have enforced this miserable condition of material life." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu (BG 13.9). First of all surpass this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Then talk of surpassing the laws of nature. Can the Communists overcome, stopping old age? No Communist will be old man? Then what way you have surpassed the laws of nature? No Communist will die? Then where is your surpassing laws of nature? Ultimately you are under the grip of laws of nature. So what is the meaning of this foolish talking, that "I am going to surpass the laws of nature"? Show us first of all.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So what kind of government it is? It is a horrible government. And they are hackney only in literature. These communist country, the people are forced to accept the government regulation. And that is all bad. I have seen in Moscow, generally the people are morose, their face not very happy. They are also Europeans, they want freedom to go here and there (indistinct) and to work. The taxi driver-first of all there is scarcity of taxi, you can not get taxi...

Guru-kṛpā: Even in Moscow, big city.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Professor Kotofsky, I asked him, "Please arrange for a taxi." (indistinct) "Well, Swamiji, this is Moscow." So he came down to the gate—he was very virtuous—he showed me, "You go this way, actually there was 3 or 4 lane then you find a short lane, then you go this way, this way, then you get to your hotel. He showed me some short cut, personally. They... He could not call a taxi. And somewhere we went, we got a taxi, private taxi, and that man was begging for more than the fare.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They believe that the... Of course it's a fact, the leaders are very corrupt, but the people want the change, that's what they believe. "And if we go, the people will work with us and overthrow this government and establish a true communistic government, a government for all the benefit the people." That's their idea. They feel that way about the whole world, the Chinese. They feel in America also—of course that's nonsense—but they think like that. That in America there is a huge working class and the working class are feeling oppressed. But that's nonsense.

Prabhupāda: I think American working class are paid more than any country.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The average income in the United States now...

Guru-kṛpā: You know a man who lays bricks, a brick layer, in India he gets paid 10 rupees a day...

Prabhupāda: Utmost.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And the gopīs were thinking "What this rascal says, say?" (chuckles) They are so sorry that, "We have come leaving everything and this rascal is giving us moral instruction." This is love, they can chastise Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...somehow or other, black market, white market, red market. Let them make... And as soon as there is taste, there will be very good demand. And this black marketeer will make profit and they'll do. This Chinese policy or the Russian policy will not stand. Simply we require to make ourselves strong. As soon as we become stronger than the communist movement, we shall finish it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finish everyone?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean attack them?

Prabhupāda: That I shall tell later. You become little strong. We cannot allow them. Because Kṛṣṇa's policy is, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8). You have to take that policy.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is going to some communist European countries.

Devotee: They make their vans with false bottoms and they hide the books underneath so at the border they do not see. Underneath the van is all your books. When they get in the country then they distribute the books to these centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Revolution.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice.

Devotee: Sometimes he said when he's speaking, the translator will not say what he is saying because it's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes he forgets-usually he speaks very carefully-guarded words. But once or twice he says, he starts speaking direct Krishna consciousness and the translator looks at him and won't translate it into the local language. Sometimes he forgets himself and starts speaking about Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the translator suddenly looks at him. Usually he covers everything.

Prabhupāda: He has done a good job.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Take the whole world. You have got the United Nation; why you are busy about the state?

Hari-śauri: Well, his idea was that communism should be spread everywhere.

Prabhupāda: This is communism. First of all, you accept one father, or the whole world is father's property, and every living being has a right to enjoy the father's property. Why you are thinking this portion is Russia, this portion is American? It is father's property. So if there is rush in China or India, why not allow them to come to Russia or America? "No. That is my property." What is this philosophy? A father's property, everyone has got right to enjoy the father's property. Can this rascal Marx propose communism on this basis? The animals should be slaughtered. Do the father like that if this son is useless, it cannot do any service, so another big son says, "I'll finish him"? The father will like that? So where is that communism? All selfish motive. That's all. Rascal. And devils citing scripture, philosophy. Rascal citing philosophy. He's a rascal. Let him accept that God is... First of all his business is "No God." His only business is "No God." First of all, mother, father is not needed, that's all.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Then why you are dictating laws, philosophy? That is the (indistinct) no laws. Why you are dictating your laws, that we should be communistic, this will be capitalistic, this will be socialistic? Why you are dictating? Let there be no law, as the uncivilized man does.

Hari-śauri: Well, there should be law, but that law is dictated by man.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: That law is decided by man in accordance with his...

Prabhupāda: Man will dictate law according to his own convenience. Well what about the trees? They are also living entity. You are cutting the trees and making it ugly, because they have no voice to protest. So why man should be given the chance?

Devotee (2): Most people think that if it's very confusing, and if their philosophy is very contradictory, then it's very profound. They think that if a philosophy is confusing...

Prabhupāda: Jugglery.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. (break) ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, (Sanskrit). (break) ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it the whole stack, everything. "Oh, I've got it free. Let me take it." But the birds, they're under natural law. They know, "Ah, I have finished. I have got my belly filled up. I don't require any more." So God has given everything sufficiently. If every man takes whatever he wants absolutely, then there is no difficulty. That is your complication. But why there should be fight? Father's property of every son. He take as much as he requires. Accept father, his property, and take as much as you require. Don't take more. That is real communism. So where is that communism? Who has it? The material nature, the mother, and God is the father. And we are all children. That's all. Plain truth. (break) ...accept this philosophy?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. You have now got the power. You cheat more.

Rāmeśvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually..., their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.

Prabhupāda: What is their aim?

Rāmeśvara: Power.

Prabhupāda: Power..., anyone who has got money, he has got power. That is open secret. What is the secret? (laughs) If you have got money, you have got all power.

Rāmeśvara: They're very expert in making the people think that this is democracy and that the people have power. (static)

Prabhupāda: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?

Rāmeśvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Merchants also. Formerly, merchants used to go from one country.... And now they also go, now. Facility of transport is easier. Formerly, they had to cross the big ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, waves, and many of them died. Still, for money, they used to go.

Hṛdayānanda: Still today, Prabhupāda, many, for example, many big American merchants are being killed in the foreign countries by the Communists and so on. Its very risky still. Many American merchants are being killed in foreign countries.

Gopavṛndapāla: Many people also, they are collecting money all throughout this life, but they don't use it for their own sense gratification, yet they leave it for their children and they think in this way: "My children will enjoy, and then all my work had some value."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Where he is going he does not know. He's thinking of his grandchildren. This is called māyā.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why? What is the difficulty?

Hari-śauri: Communists.

Hṛdayānanda: No, between the laborers and the management. They are having great, always strikes, and the British industry is becoming crippled.

Prabhupāda: And there is another problem, Irish problem. The Irish men, they are dropping bombs in London, in daytime. Creating always disturbance.

Gopavṛndapāla: I was in London just recently, and in the airport, where we distribute books, you cannot put your bag of books down because the police will come, hold you, and say, "You have a bomb in your bag." You must always keep it on your shoulder. And there are signs about every fifty feet, saying "Do not leave luggage unattended" because they are thinking anything which is unattended is a possible bomb.

Prabhupāda: London airport is very congested.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They said?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes, and they were very angry because they don't make that much money in over two months.

Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they are envious of these capitalists.

Hari-śauri: The rich. "Make the rich pay," that's their slogan.

Rādhāvallabha: But the leaders of the Communists are rich.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: The leaders of the Communists are all rich, and the people don't notice.

Hari-śauri: Andha, blind.

Prabhupāda: Russia, that, what is that, Communist leader?

Devotees: Nikolien? Lenin? Breshnev? Kruschev?

Prabhupāda: Kruschev. Kruschev. He was making money, therefore he was driven out. His son-in-law, his sons were being employed, neopolism, what is called?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Let him in.

Rādhāvallabha: It's Govinda dāsī. Tell her to come in.

Hari-śauri: But the union problem they have in England, that's why the whole country now is in disruption because the labor is always on strike. They did a survey, and they found out that all the major union leaders are Communists.

Prabhupāda: And they're making money.

Hari-śauri: When I was there I remember every month there would be a major strike in the car industry, in the shipping industry, all the major industries there was always a major strike every.... And it would completely devastate the economy.

Hṛdayānanda: The foreign businesses no longer have confidence in England, because if they make some order maybe it will not be fulfilled.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: The foreign business no longer has confidence. I heard that England had sold military weapons to Israel, and when Israel was fighting the war they called England, "Immediately send replacements for the weapons." "No, I'm sorry, we are on strike, there's no..., we cannot send replacements." So in this way there is no longer confidence in England for business, international business.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sadā samudvijña-dhiyam asad-grahāt. As soon as you accept material things as everything, immediately bhaya. Āhāra nidrā maithuna bhaya. (japa) (break) ...country, they'll not allow any individual person to live so comfortably. No, illegal. If you have got money, then give it to the government. The ministers will enjoy it. This is democracy. Democracy means "Somehow or other, I capture the government, and whatever money you have got, I snatch it from you, and then I enjoy." This is democracy. Dasyu-dharma. In Bhāgavata it is said dasyu-dharma, the business of the rogues. How is that? If I can earn some money and keep it for myself, I have no right? This is communistic idea: "Make everyone poor." Here is police, two cars. Police we saw.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: That's what you wrote in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that communism is a movement of śūdras.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they're śūdras.

Hari-śauri: There's a very popular slogan now in Australia.

Prabhupāda: Equality.

Hari-śauri: No, "Make the rich pay."

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: They are so much envious of those persons with more money.

Prabhupāda: India also, that.... "Make the rich pay."

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: One day America will be poor like that also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. When the American becomes too much luxurious, they'll not be able to defend their country. Then it will be finished.

Rāmeśvara: That is the fear even now, that America has lost their fighting spirit against the Communists.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. Yes. Vietnam. It is proof. When the Vietnam is attacked, American soldiers, they began to fly, flee away, became afraid. Naturally. They were not soldiers. They have no fighting spirit. By force they have been made soldiers. Let them take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. America will be saved. (japa)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said yesterday, or a few days ago, that this movement will go on unimpeded for ten thousand years, so...

Prabhupāda: Yes, provided we keep it uncontaminated. You should take this opportunity.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. What you can do?

Jagadīśa: Other than yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no one in the world has a vision how to save the world.

Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.

Jagadīśa: I've understood that communism is presented by the administrative class when there is a condition of scarcity. When there is opulence, then there is room for personal individual enterprise, but when there is scarcity, that cannot be encouraged, and the common people have to be subjugated. So capitalism and communism are both simply philosophies how to keep the common man satisfied. So it's simply another means of exploitation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is exploitation, and actually they have done it.

Hari-śauri: There is still one class of men living at the expense of another, whether it's Communist.... (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've made the platform that the man himself can solve all the problems.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you trust in God? Don't trust in God, like the Communists say, "We don't trust in God. We shall do it ourselves."

Kuladri: But the forefathers who made up our slogan "In God We Trust," they were very unintelligent, they were very backwards.

Prabhupāda: But you are intelligent. Why you are putting the forefather's words? You avoid it. That means you are cheating people. You do not believe in, but you still write it. That means cheating. Why do you write such things in which you do not believe? That means cheating. Hmm? What do you think? If you write something which you do not believe in, are you not cheating? That means cheating. You take word, you are giving a piece of paper, and it is written there, "one thousand dollars." That means you are cheating, in the name of God, he will accept you, that's all. If you say, "No, I don't want paper. Give me gold dollar," then you are finished. Your currency will be finished. Immediately there will be revolution, that "The government is cheating us." Actually it is cheating.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Nonsense democracy. What is...? Don't talk of this nonsense talk. (laughter). Democracy, communism, still there are varieties. But you make a president. Let everyone become president.

Kulādri: That's what they've done, now the śūdras...

Prabhupāda: They have not done. Has everyone got the president's power? How do they say that you have done. Everyone equal? That is not possible. These are imagination. Mano-rathenasato dhāvato bahiḥ Everything is there in the Bhāgavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. These rascals who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no value. They are simply speculating within the mind, mano-rathena, and they'll act all abominable, because they are on the mental platform. I'll say "I think like this," you'll say "I think like this." And nobody, none of us perfect. Then what is the use of your thinking like this or thinking like that? Both of them are imperfect. So if so many rascals sit together, or dogs, they simply bark, that's all. It has no value. So our propaganda is that "Don't remain in the dog platform. Come to the human platform." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Find that verse. You can quote that "This Kali-yuga it is waning; therefore they are becoming animals." Man without religion means animals. That's all. This is the definition. In the human society, either you become Christian or you become Mohammedan or you become a Hindu or you become Buddhist. It doesn't matter. There must be some system of religion. That is human society. And human society without religion—animal society. This is plain fact. So why people are unhappy now? Because there is no religion. They are neglecting religion. That one gentleman, he has written me that Tolstoy said that "Unless one dynamite is put underneath a church, there cannot be any peace." That means they want... The Russians, the Communists, they are very strict against God consciousness. Because they think so, that this religion has spoiled the whole social atmosphere. It might have been misused, religious system. That does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. Because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priest, it does not mean that religion should be rejected. My eye is giving some trouble on account of cataract, but that doesn't mean eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They have no conception of God, and they are preaching religion. What is that religion? That will be misused.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a big factory that makes weapons.

Rāmeśvara: He hates the Communists. He hates them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why the American government likes him. A lot of big politicians in America are backing him because he's anti-Communist and he's a big man in Korea.

Prabhupāda: So he's already a big man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he's an industrialist.

Rāmeśvara: He became famous during the Korean war with the Chinese. He fought against the Chinese, and then he became very wealthy. As a result of that war he became very wealthy. He was selling ammunition.

Prabhupāda: America was in favor of Korea?

Rāmeśvara: They were trying to prevent the Chinese from conquering.

Prabhupāda: During Truman's?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they'll do. All old men should be killed. That time is coming. Don't become old. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are teaching us to remain young forever, Prabhupāda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One must become Kṛṣṇa conscious to become young.

Prabhupāda: So many difficulties will come unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want to be happy.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: It's called a vicious cycle. Because the brain is so dull, therefore they can't understand how to stop performing these activities; and because they don't stop performing these activities, therefore the brain remains dull. In this way they are caught up.

Prabhupāda: No, pramattaḥ, that we can see, pramattaḥ, mad. And everyone, especially in the Western country, so many madmen. The hippies, their whole sect-mad. Pramattaḥ. Then so-called businessmen, so-called scientist, so-called philosopher—everyone is mad. And kurute vikarma, all sinful activities, especially the slaughterhouse, horrible. Everyone is taking share of these sinful activities. They're fighting amongst themselves, this party, that party, communist party, fascist party, then barking in the United Nation and so on, so on. All mad. At least we must know it. Or we are talking nonsense; they are all right. What is your conviction?

Bhagavān: We are seeing that more and more we are having to preach to younger and younger people.

Prabhupāda: Those who are innocent.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory? The girls are working that side? No.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: They should come now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our program is solid, but if we have to argue with animals, that is a different thing. Otherwise any human being, they will accept. But the modern civilization means to keep the people in general in animal platform, that's all, and cheat them.

Bhagavān: Most of the people who..., they are becoming attracted to this communist philosophy. They have no idea how to practically apply it. All they are saying is "It is an opportunity to take from the rich and give me to enjoy." But they are not seeing any scope of community cooperation. This is all impractical. They are saying, "I will get money from my boss. I will take his wealth and distribute." They are simply materialists.

Prabhupāda: "That also distribute for me. More share for me." (laughs) Now there is drought; there is no rain. What the capitalists or communists can do in this connection? If they are able to present any program how to counteract? Then where is your progress? When there is some calamity, you both of you simply (indistinct). That's all. You cannot do anything. Then where is your progress?

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: "I'll work and you'll enjoy." Why shall they work? That is natural tendency. This can be possible only for Kṛṣṇa. "I'll work; Kṛṣṇa will enjoy." That's all. That is only possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Jayatīrtha: That's a fact. Therefore it's the only practical communism.

Prabhupāda: "I shall fight, give my all best, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied." So that.... Arjuna for his personal, he did not..., decline, but when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it? All right." That is kṛṣṇa-prema. "Never mind I shall be aggrieved by killing my kinsmen, but Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That's all right." This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy. We cannot find this philosophy in the material world that "I shall work, and so many will be satisfied." That is not possible. "If I work, I must be satisfied." So these communists, they will work according to.... Everyone will show that "I have no capacity." So the production will reduce. And they'll have to beg.

Jayatīrtha: They've had to introduce capitalistic type incentives in many of the communist countries in order to induce the people to work.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So the communist teaching that "You love Lenin," and the capitalist teaching that "You love Washington," so nobody's satisfied. Unless the love comes to Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of satisfied.

Jayatīrtha: There's no reciprocation.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there must be defect because the love is reposed in some defective or imperfect personality. It may be Lenin or it may be Washington. It doesn't matter. He's imperfect. Love is there. Otherwise why so many people are working? But because it is misplaced, they are not satisfied. Therefore it is stated, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje, this word, is used. God.... They may say that "Where is God?" And therefore the word is adhokṣaje: "beyond your sense perception." Everything is within sense perception. So therefore this very word is used, that "You cannot see, you cannot perceive, but still, you have to love Him." Adhokṣaje. They say, therefore, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is some ideal, imagination, Kṛṣṇa. They think.... They say, I have an imaginary form of Kṛṣṇa, a stone, and "Unnecessarily they are wasting their time, loving Kṛṣṇa." What is their theory? You know that?

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: In Hawaii there are so many tulasīs dry wood. We can make those.

Bhagavān: In our preaching this is good point, that we do not alienate the communists and stress on the differences between us and them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: That can come later.

Prabhupāda: But they see practically that "We are theorizing while they're practically doing." So expand this farming project, self-help and peaceful life for spiritual culture. I saw that Philadelphia farm is better organized than all others.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, in Pennsylvania they have the best farm. It is the best farm. When they bought it, it already had all this equipment and best flat farmland, whereas New Vrindaban, they have such a...

Prabhupāda: Hilly.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: What is the political position of the Fascists and Communists?

Yogeśvara: Very mixed up.

Bhagavān: They are called Christian Democrats.

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture so many. Fertile brain in the tract of deserted world. This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Rascaldom, enviousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. Rascaldom includes everything. If you say "rascal," then he includes everything. The so-called scientists say "Oh, after this..." The Communists, when I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything's finished." Such a big professor. Just see. Why everything finished? We see this life, stage by stage, one stage is coming after another, another stage is coming, another. Why do you say finished?

Pradyumna: So we analyze the material body is temporary, it's no good anyways, then if, even if someone says, "Well, it may be temporary, but in this life we can get something out of it," then we analyze that other people are taking that. The wife is taking that, the children are taking that.

Prabhupāda: No, we should first of all fix up what is our business. People have taken this, that to maintain the body, to maintain the family, to earn money and protect it, these have become their business. They do not know anything else. The whole world is going on on this platform. Nationwise, communitywise, and everything. Other countries have developed, now the Shah is trying to develop equally. But what is the aim of development? The same—motorcar and accident. That they do not know. "No. They have got motorcar. I must have motorcar." But what is the aim? Same aim. Meet accident and die. They do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The material world is full of miseries. It may be of different degrees, but it is full of miseries. You cannot avoid by adjustment. That is not possible. Therefore the materialists, they are trying. Just like in this country, Iran, now the Iranians are trying to become as opulent as the Americans. They are trying to build up similar cities and industries, but do you think they will be happy then? No. Are the Americans happy by having big, big cities? No. That is not possible. Now they are trying to imitate, but that is a false attempt. That is not the life. They can see that Americans have got big, big cities, they have big, big organizations, but are they happy actually or not? From practical example. Then why you are attempting again to imitate them? That intelligence is lacking. How they will be happy, they do not know. They are trying to imitate somebody else. He is already on the standard, so-called, but still they are not happy. The Communists, they're trying for the last fifty years to become happy, but are they happy actually? No. The Russians and the Chinese, they are now differing, "No, this is not the standard. This is standard." So the same thing is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). It is like chewing the chewed, that's all.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment and it's for us to divide and enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. (break) ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny. Actually they do. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you'll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won't find the modernized economic development. Big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: How it is possible? You don't accept father, where is the question of brotherhood? If there is father and we are sons, we are brothers. If there is no father, then where is the question of brotherhood?

Hari-śauri: Even the Communists are fighting amongst themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, unless you accept the father, where is the question of brother? Artificial brotherhood.

Nava-yauvana: Just look at the United Nations, how they are brothers.

Prabhupāda: You think they're united? They are all dogs barking, that's all. I said in the public. Some dogs are brought together and they are barking. That's all. Where is the unity? That is the fact. If you bring some dogs on this quarter and ask them, "Please live peacefully," will they do that? Why they cannot do it? You bring some dogs, neighborhood, and ask them, "Don't bark, live together peacefully." Will they be able to do that? What do you think?

Dayānanda: No, it is their nature.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That means animal. That means animal. Animal has no philosophy.

Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...

Prabhupāda: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight. Otherwise, if you accept God is the supreme father, if I accept God is the supreme, why fight? We have to go down?

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If you don't like this, you can close India, we can go all over the world.

Indian man (2): Yes, there is a very big scope there.

Indian man (3): No, but here even it would declare it. Minister of State. Only Communist have put those questions.

Prabhupāda: Communists are seeing this movement as a great danger.

Indian man (3): Yes, great danger for their...

Prabhupāda: And we are spreading God consciousness. (break) By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, we have no debts. We are (indistinct) simply find out... (?) Now in Bombay I am getting from my Book Fund seven lakhs of rupees per month regularly.

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We have given them three lakhs of rupees. What is that?

Mahāṁśa: This is the newspaper article which came in Hindu, the Hindu paper, about the government asking something about us.

Indian man (1): Communist party.

Mahāṁśa: "New Delhi, August 13th. Mr. Om Mehta, Minister of State for Home, informed the Rājya-sabhā yesterday that government will order an inquiry into the activities of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Society in Nadia District of West Bengal to find out whether there was something fishy about it."

Hari-śauri: This is the same report Gopāla Kṛṣṇa read you.

Mahāṁśa: You have read this, Prabhupāda?

Indian man (3): It must have come in earlier.

Prabhupāda: But the name is "Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." (laughs)

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You can give me little puffed rice. (long pause) During wartime some, during noncooperation movement, so one firm, they were supplying printing machine, and, very famous firm, forgot the name. So they had 113 branches all over the world. So somebody questioned that "If you British boycott, if by boycott movement, if your firm is closed..." So the manager replied, "So what is wrong there? If one branch is closed, we'll still have 112 branches all over the world." So if the Communist party in India they want like that, so we have our own branches all over. (slapping sound—for mosquito?) Don't kill.

Indian man (3): This book sales all over the world, six lakhs of rupees?

Prabhupāda: Sixty thousand...

Indian man (3): Dollars. About five lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Books. We are printing books five lakhs, three lakhs, one lakh, fifty thousand. Lowest twenty thousand.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, the first beginning of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā you have to take. (aside:) No children. Otherwise it will be disturbed. When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being, according to Vedic śāstra anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He's animal. So practically now in this age especially, everyone is identifying with this body. That is the basic principle of nationalism, communism, or this "ism" or that "ism." The bodily conception of life.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): Has there been any official opposition to your movement in any country?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Interviewer (3): Your movement is spreading largely. Do you think that it will be welcome in the Communist countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have been in Moscow. I saw many learned professors. We are selling our books there.

Interviewer (3): You are selling your books in Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Everyone, every intelligent man will accept. We are selling books in East Germany, which is Communist. They are taking our books.

Interviewer (4): Are there any centers of the society in the Communist world?

Prabhupāda: We have not tried so far. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167).

Interviewer (4): Maybe such a thing is not allowed.

Prabhupāda: No, we have gone there, but there are difficulties to start. People are interested. Everywhere people are interested.

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You directly do that. You (indistinct) the idea. (indistinct)

Acyutānanda: And Bhavananda invited the C.P.I. (Communist Party of India) members to come to Māyāpur and see for themselves.

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Acyutānanda: This article invites them.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These members are now in Delhi so we can send it to them.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These members are all in Delhi. And when I write the letter which you dictated, they will also enclose it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They published one English article, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement Catches On."

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: How people are receiving this movement all over the world, even (indistinct) to the communist (indistinct). They are trying to kill God, and we are putting God (indistinct) educated families.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Jayapatāka: Show that other article that... This is the actual article against us.

Acyutānanda: Also this came in the Statesman, the pro-vice-chancellor of Calcutta University came to Māyāpur, he wants to affiliate Māyāpur with the Calcutta University. This came in the Statesman. And a few days ago the vice-chancellor...

Prabhupāda: It is not yet finished?

Jayapatāka: That's the old picture.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I told you Ratha-yātrā, it is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Conquer the world.

Prabhupāda: ...the eyesore of the Communist party.

Hari-śauri: It says underneath, "Ratha-yātrā in foreign lands." That's the caption underneath the picture.

Prabhupāda: Where is it?

Gargamuni: Ratha-yātrā in foreign lands.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa swamis. Read it. Read it.

Morning Walk Conversation About Bombay -- August 29, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Oh, everything is there.

Girirāja: All of our credits are there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Although they are Communist they just want to...

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing is now that we can expect something almost every few weeks. Blitz, once it starts on something it just goes on. I think we should at least write a letter to them just saying...

Girirāja: I was... At first, I thought there is no use to meet the editor because he's a demon.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Delhi man who wrote the story, this editor told me he's an outright Communist.

Prabhupāda: Sit down.

Morning Walk Conversation About Bombay -- August 29, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually an outright Communist.

Girirāja: The other point that people felt that nobody will take it seriously because everyone knows that it's just junk.

Prabhupāda: Third-class paper. (Child speaking in background.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It has a wide circulation in India. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...leave this boy in the park and we shall go. Let them come, walking. You come walking? Live here? No. Cannot walk? He can walk. Leave him here. (Prabhupāda is teasing a little child.)

Child: That's the park! Here we are!

Prabhupāda: They will come back by walking.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But the only people who are pressing charges are the Communists.

Krishna Modi: But they will do. That is their duty.

Prabhupāda: They are atheists.

Krishna Modi: Yes. So that why we should mind for that? That is there. You may say they're rākṣasa, or whatever you... (laughs) They will, always they will...

Prabhupāda: Rākṣasas are always ready to kill God. That was the business of Rāvaṇa, that was the business of Kaṁsa, that was the business of Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even Russia, which is Communist, has admired Prabhupāda's books. I have written reviews. I was in Russia two months ago. They're praising Prabhupāda's books very much. The leading professors there.

Krishna Modi: Also, this is a part of nowadays. Advertise and all these things, to know each and every thing. This is correct that why you are worrying about all these things. People should know it about you. Why not hear it? This is perfectly right, I agree with you. But in the interest of other people who have faith in their religion...

Prabhupāda: No, our mission is that this Kṛṣṇa cult should be preached all over the world. That is the... Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct) Find out this verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Indians, all Indians abroad. Abroad and also Communist countries if anybody. Give us any report. Russia, like that you should give us in a file, make a file. And one thing is this. Now second is that when we are...

Prabhupāda: This is a good book advertisement. (laughs) "Andhra government falls for Kṛṣṇa..."

Krishna Modi: (laughs) No, he has not written anything. It is only it seems that... What can be said about...

Prabhupāda: Whole government is supporting.

Krishna Modi: Supporting. His meaning is this, that this Congress government is also doing all these mischiefs, so that they will... (laughs)... That his main idea, and nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also victimized by this Kṛṣṇa cult.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And what they have done, the Communists?

Krishna Modi: They have not done anything. They should not do anything. It is not their duty.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?

Krishna Modi: That is... They say like that, that we are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their (indistinct), education, medical free. We are giving the to common men...

Prabhupāda: Medical (indistinct) is free. Free medical service, education... (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and in the offices of big, big professors and all, it looks so much lower than in America or Canada.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Toronto, Montreal, Paris, so many. So many temples. Very, very big temples. The cost is sometimes fifty lakhs, fifty-five lakhs each temple.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New York is more than a million dollars, New York temple.

Interviewer: Do you have any proposal to spread this movement in Communist countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have already gone. I have been in Moscow. This, my secretary, he has brought some order from them. They are also appreciating.

Interviewer: Now two priests of your temple in America have been arrested on certain charges as we read from the newspaper...

Prabhupāda: Well, the charges will be there. Gandhi was also charged, and was arrested. And that you cannot stop. That will go on in any movement. That is not any fault. Because the counter-charges are already there, everywhere. What is the American charges? I do not know. What is that?

Interviewer: That you have money from... Extortion of money from the devotees. Asking their parents to pay or some such thing.

Prabhupāda: Parents to pay. This is a farce.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Otherwise who cares for whom? There are so many things. Here also, they are feeling the pressure, the so-called swamis, yogis, Gosvāmīs, religious groups, Māyāvādīs...

Hari-śauri: Communists.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: Communists, too.

Prabhupāda: Communists. That is our success. Everyone is now feeling the pressure. (Bengali) and they are talking (Bengali). In such a short time, so much money, so much expansion, so many devotees, what is this? That is Kṛṣṇa.

Haṁsadūta: Like Vāmanadeva expanded His foot and He covered the...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I don't think in any other edition such explanation is there. Dr. Radhakrishnan, other this Dada (?) Krishna. Radhakrishnan and Dada Krishna. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam. Hm. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, especially the communist countries. Completely in ignorance. (Sanskrit) They're thinking that by external adjustment, by following the Marxist theory or Lenin's theory and killing the capitalists, inventing some bogus ways of happiness... (pause) You have been in Moscow?

Haṁsadūta: Hm, several times.

Prabhupāda: Hm. I think they are poor. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Very poor.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very miserable condition.

Haṁsadūta: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: And advertising, communists are so rich, so happy.

Haṁsadūta: I know, everything, all their literature concerns itself with struggling. Struggling against capitalists, struggling to...

Prabhupāda: And mass of people they are very morose, unhappy.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In the street you see there is no happiness in their face.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very miserable.

Haṁsadūta: All these communist countries are like that. I was in many of these countries, people are all depressed.

Prabhupāda: There is no taxi. You cannot get taxi on call. And the taxi drivers, they want something more.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: They do that.

Prabhupāda: Very bad country, the communist country.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: He started out in the military, he was in the Navy. Then afterwards... His father had a peanut farm, and then his father became sick, so then he gave up his Navy thing. He came back to take care of the family. Then he began that peanut business. Now he doesn't have to do it any more because now he has made millions. He is wealthy man, very wealthy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...capture American government. Then all world will follow. As they are known as Communists, we should be known as Hare Kṛṣṇas. We are already known as such, Hare Kṛṣṇas. Keep that name. People at least chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jagadīśa: Hare Kṛṣṇa Party.

Prabhupāda: It is already well advertised all over the world. So keep this name, Hare Kṛṣṇas. "Vote for Hare Kṛṣṇas." Anywhere you live, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right, you can go. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa says, you hear and do. Just like you are now acting, family conscious or country conscious or society conscious. The dog is also working as dog conscious. Monkey is working, monkey conscious. He is thinking, "I am monkey." You are thinking you are Indian. He is thinking he is American. He is thinking as..., so on, so on, different consciousness. But when you act Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your real dharma. Now we are working under different consciousness, therefore varieties. And when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is oneness, perfection, to act according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). What Kṛṣṇa says, you act accordingly. You are acting... The Communists, they are acting Lenin consciousness. Is it not? Their god is Lenin. I have been in Moscow. Everywhere Lenin's picture, Lenin's book, and they are worshiping Lenin's tomb. That is Lenin consciousness. So similarly, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: (Hindi) All same...

Prabhupāda: No, actually, India is the best country. There is no doubt. Even these boys, they say India is the best. Puṇya-bhūmi. Religion and other studies of life, India. Communist (Hindi) that (if) you want to study religion then go to India." These boys of western countries, they come to India not to learn the so-called science. They have enough in their country. They do not come here how to manufacture airplane.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Modern scientists don't say that we can make the soul. Soul is permanent in every man.

Prabhupāda: No, the rascals say, "We can create." So that rascal, number of that rascal is more. They are saying, bluffing, that "Now we shall create chemicals. We are trying." This is going on. Just this morning he was saying.

Dr. Patel: It is the theory of these people I think that...

Guest (4): Communists.

Dr. Patel: Communists.

Prabhupāda: That means rascalism. Not a single soul has been created till now and these rascals are claiming that they are going... And they are scientists. We have to accept them as scientists. Just see. This is... Not only now. One gentleman, one big doctor, chemist, he has got Nobel Prize, he came to California and our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he was in the also in the university, he's also doctor and chemist. So he was speaking on the chemical evolution. So he's my student, he challenged him, that, "If I give you chemicals, can you prepare life?" "That I cannot say."

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?

Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: With just a stick.

Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb? No? A lion was drinking water this side and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, "Oh, you are making my water muddy!" "Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?" (laughs) In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he's lion and he's a lamb. So it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. "Might is right." There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our...

Girirāja: Bhavānanda.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda. Nothing was done.

Girirāja: Yes. It's true.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: In Russia, the mass of people aloof from this rascal theory.

Hari-śauri: They are not Communists, the mass of people. The Communist party itself is very small.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very small. By terrorism there will be, by terrorism.

Rāmeśvara: So when the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement becomes so powerful that it is in charge of the government, is it because of a small group of people or because of a mass?

Prabhupāda: It is due to quality of the leaders.

Rāmeśvara: But will it be like Russia where there is only a small group of people who are Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not that. The quality of the people will be changed.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: We have got our psychologists.

Rāmeśvara: These psychologists say that if there is a lack of sleep, then the mind becomes very susceptible to another person's ideas. You can get control of him by depriving him of sleep. Just like they say... There was a war once in the country of Korea between America and China, and the prisoners, the Americans, were captured and put into these prison camps, and the Chinese tried to convert them to Communism by lack of sleep and lack of food, torture. In this way, they say, this is widely accepted that if a person has too little sleep or too little food, then you can break his will and change his life by force.

Prabhupāda: So that is all right. Then you break. Now he's quite fit for your conversion. He's now weak. You convert him to your ideas. (laughter) We have made the ground.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that "India is so poor and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor, so what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not... Therefore they are... The Indian rascals, they using this income of Bālaji for industry. They are bringing, that "The poor people, on account of their innocence, they are blindly, so..." Communist movement is against us because we are constructing costly temples, crores and rupees. This could have been utilized in industry. That is their protest. Temple construction was practically stopped in India. And I have again revived. Nobody was interested to construct temple anywhere within the recent at least hundred years or fifty years.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: And we were purchasing real milk (indistinct). So nice.

Rāmeśvara: So they may say this philosophy, that's like the communism, capitalism, Russia, America. The business of exploiting the masses is the same, they'll say. Different names, different dress, but the main business is going on.

Prabhupāda: Expert. Nobody is thinking (indistinct) "Everyone will be happy." That we are thinking because we are devotees. Otherwise what is the use of my going to America? So America is not in need of me, but I found there is need of me. So they are thinking, "This man has come to wash our brains." And I think that "Yes, we are going to do work (indistinct) they will be happy."

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Gurudāsa: You are doing "Back to Home" bill.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya. But actually I am exploiting American men and money, from this point of view. But what can I do? I do not make any national distinction, either American or Indian.

Gurudāsa: You are not exploiting...

Rāmeśvara: Spiritual Communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: They were exploiting; you are uplifting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is train?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Gurudāsa: There's no hurry. Also, if they could only spend their money in England, it means they wouldn't care so much for the country. They wouldn't care for India so much if they were going to spend the money in England.

Prabhupāda: No, practically I am spending America's money in a proper way. They would have used it in a different way.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Naxalite means...

Gargamuni: Terrorists. Communists.

Prabhupāda: Regular dacoits, thieves, rogues. "Pay me; otherwise kill you." And if you don't, kill you. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: That's the trend, then, everywhere, because unemployment is increasing.

Prabhupāda: And especially in your country it will be dangerous because these blacks, if they don't get employment, they will create havoc, these blacks. And they are not civilized. They want money, and if they don't get money, then they will create havoc.

Gargamuni: Money and liquor.

Hari-śauri: Yes. If they do get money, they just buy it.

Prabhupāda: Money they get. But they can live. But there is no culture. They want liquor. So these rascals do not know how we are making human civilization. They do not see it, that without any fixed income we are maintaining such a huge establishment all over the world, without any fixed income. How we are doing? We are not thieves, we are not rogues. We are all gentlemen.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And again they will take tranquilizer. Just see (laughing) how thankless task. Create something disturbing and again try to... Yesterday some men came, the Communistic temple.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes, especially in this state.

Prabhupāda: I gave him good thrashing. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: That is their mercy, that you even bothered to talk to them.

Prabhupāda: But they could not argue. I stopped them arguing. One man, one boy, he asked me, "Why God has created this world?" And "Why don't you ask your father why he has created you? Then you'll understand." I told him like that. "Go and ask your father why he has created you."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Strong.

Rāmeśvara: ...then America will more and more be considering active stopping of Communism. It'll be logical.

Prabhupāda: Everything will be stopped, all bogus social, political or religious systems. They will be all stopped.

Rāmeśvara: Then this will be a natural development of the growth of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Two things: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). As the duṣkṛtā—na māṁ duṣkṛtā mūḍhāḥ—will be reduced, the sādhu will increase. Or the sādhu will increase, the duṣkṛta will decrease.

Rāmeśvara: This conflict will be global. It will affect the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That doesn't matter.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What he...? He's not qualified man.

Rāmeśvara: This past year Russia sponsored a war in Africa, Angola. Is it Africa or South America? It's Africa, Angola? The Russians sponsored one war. They supplied all the money, all the weapons, and they were victorious. They conquered a country through their local Communist party.

Prabhupāda: Which is?

Rāmeśvara: It's called Angola. And the Americans were trying to support the opposing side. But the public in America has got such a bad taste from Vietnam that they became what they call isolationists.

Prabhupāda: They have become hopelessly, what is called, unsuccessful in Vietnam.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. So they're very, very reluctant. So they withdrew public support, and the government had to withdraw, and the country was lost.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another laziness. For good cause one should.

Rāmeśvara: They are thinking, "What if the people want to be Communist? Why should we interfere?"

Prabhupāda: That means cowardice. They have no conviction that Communism is dangerous, godlessness.

Rāmeśvara: They are forgetting how dangerous it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Now they have a policy called detente, where... It means that they try to become friendly with the Russians and do exchanges.

Prabhupāda: All economic.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They must cheat, because they are first-class rogue.

Hari-śauri: Actually what's happened is that America has given away...

Prabhupāda: I hesitate to say "they," (because) the Russian people are nice.

Hari-śauri: The Communist Party.

Prabhupāda: The Party is dangerous. I've studied the Russians. They are nice.

Rāmeśvara: Victimized.

Prabhupāda: Yes, victimized. They have been suppressed by force, terrorism. Otherwise nice Russian people are as good as others. And they do not like this government. That's a fact. But what can be done? They are forced to accept. Nobody is happy. Everyone is morose.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They're all afraid to speak.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No freedom.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But during that delay they are forced to lose their job, so they have no income. Then people from outside Russia who are sympathizers start to send money, and the government takes sixty-five percent of it in taxes before the people can get it. So they torture them if they want to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Terrorism. Very dangerous. Now it is published in the paper how they exploit the people. And our India also thinking in terms of Russian philosophy. Lenin's philosophy.

Hari-śauri: They're not so successful here, though. The people are too pious to accept Communist philosophy so much here.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. It will be difficult here.

Hari-śauri: They've been trying for years, but they haven't made much ground.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: We've made a lot more impression than they have.

Prabhupāda: They are making... Therefore I was saying... The Russians, they have made a propaganda to show, but nobody purchases their literature. Nobody purchases, either educated or uneducated. Maybe few interested. But they are making vigorous propaganda to spread their literature. They have been unsuccessful.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Mother Theresa, no?

Gargamuni: No. It's his mother. I'm sure because I read the article. I did. I read. It was in the Illustrated Weekly.

Hari-śauri: And the Americans very much want to make friends with India, very much.

Gargamuni: But I think if we can convince the American government that we can stop Communism in India by this movement, because the people will see... They tried to do it with the priests.

Prabhupāda: Simply prasādam distribution-bas. We shall stop them with hari-saṅkīrtana, village to village.

Gargamuni: Yes, cause they frankly admit, the Americans, that they planted CIA agents in the priests to try and convince the people and change them. But they failed because these CIA agents became detected. So I told them that actually also this Christianity, the Indian people cannot accept, the mass of people. Maybe a few. But they can accept our movement.

Prabhupāda: No, that is in lower class, not brāhmaṇas.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: I told him this. He was interested. He was. But he told me, "Under the present..." The CIA used to give money to certain groups to stop Communism, he said, but recently they have been under investigation for this, so he said it would be very dangerous for them to do such a thing now. But he said he would talk it over. Since then, though, I have not met him. This was at the time when we were called CIA in Calcutta, when it came in the papers. I went to them for advice because they also became very much upset because just before that, the Consulate with his wife came to Māyāpur and saw all of our activities. They were very impressed. And they printed this in the newspaper, trying to show that the Consulate General was also an agent along with Bhavānanda. So he became very angry. He became very angry that they should try to make this up. He said, "Actually I had personally... My wife wanted to come, but I was not so much interested. But because my wife came, I came also. But I don't see why they are trying to link me along with your society as CIA." He said, "This is very bad." And from what I know, they made a formal complaint to the Home Minister of West Bengal, the Home Secretary.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Nobody believes in Lenin. Then there would have been everyone Communist. You believe, a section. Then why there are two parties? You are not all in all. That is going on everywhere. How you can say that you are correct, I am not correct? The process is the same. Therefore Vivekananda has compromised, "Everyone is correct." Yato mata tato patha. There is no quarrel.

Gurukṛpā: Then they accuse us of being fanatical.

Prabhupāda: You are also fanatical. Why do you believe Lenin? You are fanatical in our eyes. You are worse than fanatical because we have got great other authorities—they believe Kṛṣṇa is God. You have created a section recently, but we have got evidences from thousands and thousands of years ago, authorities believing Kṛṣṇa. Our literatures are very old. Your literature recently made.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: There is no change of position. You are rascal. You are thinking there is change of position. There is no change of position. The sun is everlastingly rising from the east. You cannot change that.

Yogeśvara: No, but let us say the people who are in Communist countries...

Prabhupāda: You bring any "ist." They are all rascals. Take it. Then you are intelligent. You can bring any ism, but they're all rascals. You cannot change the law of nature.

Hari-śauri: If a man is destined to be poor, he'll be poor.

Prabhupāda: You cannot change. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. That is the false ahaṅkāra. "Oh, I can become. I know something. I have become scientist. I have become politician." That is ahaṅkāra, simply. It is useless. You cannot do anything. Hm?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?

Hari-śauri: Proletariat.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why he said dhīra, sober, cool-headed? These rascals are cats and dogs. They are not civilized, even big, big professors, they say, "Swami, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Has he got brain? And they're Communist leader. Identifying with this body. This is the actual platform of that body, dehātma-buddhiḥ. And they're described in the śāstra as no better than the asses. So next point will be that where you think beyond your capacity, we begin our education from there, seeing the... Our education begins from that. First of all try to understand what is spirit. Then it will... And our whole process is how to transfer one person from the material platform to the spiritual. Therefore they are thinking "brainwash." The fools, they cannot understand where our education begins. Where they have failed, we begin from there. Where they are disappointed, that "This cannot be answered," so on, we begin from there. So who is intelligent? We are intelligent or they are? We are trying to bring man from this gross misunderstanding, misidentification platform, to come to the spiritual platform. Then he understands what is the spiritual kingdom, the spiritual life that is eternal, blissful. Then he will understand. And that is all new to these dull-headed rascals. And they are thinking... It is the same, different subject matter.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They have captured our books?

Devotee: In Argentina. Argentina is a different mode, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very, very...

Prabhupāda: Why? Argentina is a Communist country?

Devotee: No. They're like a Third World country, Third World. There's a lot of Communists inside the country.

Prabhupāda: Third World? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Third World. They refer to the Arab republics, like that. They call them the Third World.

Devotee: They don't participate with the Communist countries, and they also don't participate up there, United...

Prabhupāda: Third World? We have no place there? We want Fourth World? Or what is that? (laughter)

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Which I sung.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And also the "Hare Kṛṣṇa" which they sung, you remember, in London, that was very popular. Even in Communist countries it was popular.

Jayapatākā: There was a headline in the newspaper, Hare Kṛṣṇa rock... (break) ...and put this in our exhibit. That will go a long way for making the people more Kṛṣṇa conscious. They really... The only thing...

Prabhupāda: You give your mother. She can utilize it. She's very intelligent girl. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Sit down. I am little better today. Sometimes for the last... How many days? I am... (break) ...think great. I told you this must have been published.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you ask him to take care of his dog, he feels insulted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember in the park? In Central Park we were walking. That woman was very angry.

Prabhupāda: Most uncivilized. So this will finish. This will not stay. It is already being finished by this Communist country. Only hope is this, if they want to be saved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people are beginning to realize the important part that this movement is going to play. A number of our enemies in New York said that this movement is the greatest threat to modern civilization.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of our enemies in that brainwash case, they are starting to say, "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is the greatest threat to our modern civilization."

Prabhupāda: They?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, they said it. In the newspaper it was reported.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say, "It is spreading like epidemic." What is that?

Devotee: Little more? (sound of eating)

Prabhupāda: What is that civilization? Do they think that civilization is correct?

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Gargamuni: Rangoon is a Communist state, but still, they say, "We must have these books, and we will make arrangement for payment." No one has refused that they will not pay.

Prabhupāda: Through this Communist country, other Communist countries also...

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. They were very impressed by the Russian reviews in Rangoon. They said, "Oh, in Russia also." I said, "Yes, our Guru Mahārāja, he went there in '71 and gave lectures at the University of Moscow." They were highly impressed with that.

Prabhupāda: This is very improved.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that is not difficult. We can come to Calcutta and go to Calcutta, there. But if you organize Bombay center, recruit scientists, hold meeting, that is very nice proposal. There must be some state, ideal state. Just like the Russia is Communist state, and they're making nice propaganda, similarly we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is example.

Rūpānuga: A good example is needed. A good example.

Prabhupāda: Either Manipur, anywhere. but we must have now a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. And we shall show how ideal state, wherever it is possible. I am not speaking particularly of Manipur, but Manipur, there is good chance. But we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. So go. Take prasādam.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Harikeśa: It's simply meant that there's a certain amount of prerequisite knowledge one has to know before he goes into a communist country.

Prabhupāda: No, another thing is that BBT you are keeping, a separate organization. So if the BBT representative goes somewhere, so why he should be restricted?

Harikeśa: Well, for example he went to visit the two devotees we have in Moscow, and a KGB man followed him up to the door and he tried to lose him. It was a whole thing. It seemed very risky for the people.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the two devotee... We have one devotee, and with him I did so much preaching, so the KGB man, the Russian spy...

Prabhupāda: KGB? What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the Russian spy.

Gargamuni: Like CIA.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We have got very good encouragement from Budapest. You have read that letter. That means there is very good potency of our movement being accepted in communistic countries. Just read that letter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You like this garland, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: All right. You have brought it; I must like it.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Satsvarūpa: Shall I read on?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the real legal thing is: some way or other, introduce books. Therefore... And it will be beneficial in the long time let us see. Read it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We're very happy to see that by your divine mercy the whole world is flooded with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just by printing and distributing your books the whole world will change. We can see the tremendous effect that your books already caused in the Communist countries of Eastern Europe. The people are mad after your books. Many of them can see that this is the only solution to get out from the miseries that are caused by the materialistic way of life and Communism. Please let me quote from a recent letter sent by a boy in Hungary." The boy's name is Yedi Peta. " 'According to the advices now, I am chanting daily on beads I made at home. I also have purchased the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, although I can only speak Hungarian. Now I do not give any more importance for the evidences from chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc. Rather, I appreciate A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda much more than any scientist or philosopher.' "

Devotees: Jaya!

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have no faith. That is the difficulty. They talk of God, talk of religion, but they do not know what is God, what is religion. That is going on. You may be or I may be. We do not know what is the identity of the living entity. Then where is the question of religion?

Mr. Rajda: No, in the last rulers, most of them were Communists, but they said that religion is opium. They say religion is opium. They didn't believe in religion at all.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say something, we say something, he says something. That you manufacture something. But nobody know what is reality. That is the difficulty. Unless you know the reality, to suggest something, "I suggest it," that does not mean it is solution. That is going on, all over the world. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha. The external features, these material features, they are concerned with that. Earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence. But they do not know that beyond this, there is another element. Unless you come to that knowledge, there is no question of welfare activities. That knowledge is available in India. India should understand. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Not only India, but he must be a human being. Not only human being, but also systematic human society. (break) Of course, we are trying to give this knowledge. These American, Europeans, they are taking it. It should be done very systematically, not alone tried.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's very true. Scientists, once they are convinced, it is also very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is not easily convinced, then easily he does not forget.

Dr. Sharma: I've always said, teach the Russians that we have our own brand of communism or socialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already explained.

Dr. Sharma: Yāvad... (Sanskrit) The amount of material you need to fill your belly, that is your own. You can call only that much you own. If you think you own something more, you are a thief and you should be punished. That's what Bhāgavata says. This is the highest kind of socialism one can...

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, our movement is sublime, our position is also sublime. Kṛṣṇa is supplying everything what we need. We have got sublime books, philosophy. Now you arrange meetings of the scientist everywhere. We are, our party Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara and others, they will go and speak something.

Guru dāsa: So I can do that in the Communist countries also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everywhere.

Guru dāsa: I'll do it.

Prabhupāda: Science is for everyone. There is no such thing as Communist science. "Two plus two equal to four," that is both for the Communists and capitalists. That's a fact. Because I am Communist, I cannot say "Two plus two equal to five." It is four. So science means fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That theatrical group will also be popular in Communist countries. That drama group will also be popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, drama group also. That is from artistic side. And from scientific side. And gradually we are making Bombay as the headquarters. So occasionally you come and go, and if possible tackle these men and find money to be spent.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: America was against Indira?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In the last one year they had changed. Because of Sanjay. One good thing about Sanjay Gandhi was he was completely anti-Communist. He was pro-American and pro cap-free society. So India's relation with Russia was getting loose and with America was getting tight. Because of Sanjay Gandhi. So that was one good thing.

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). What is the goal of life, they do not know. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says, "I must see first of all my self-interest." But he does not know what is self-interest. That is not unnatural. If I say that "I must see first of all myself," you cannot blame me, because everyone does that. But you must know what is your svārtha-gatim. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). So it is in paper published that they have been forbidden to go out?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Lata Mangeskar.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Lata Mangeskar.

Prabhupāda: He should not do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shouldn't have done it, no.

Prabhupāda: What people will think? Keep yourself pure, spotless. (pause) We shall go to the Bulaya(?).

Upendra: Yes, first thing.

Prabhupāda: This rascal, D.N.K.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Communist party.

Prabhupāda: What is this "Distressed Nanda"?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Why she was silent." This is from the Readers View column. "In the farewell talk she gave to the outgoing Communist Party members of Parliament, Mrs. Indira Gandhi is reported to have told them that she was to blame for the rout, but she does not mention what is common talk among people everywhere, and especially among the village folk: her connivance at the build-up of her son Sanjay Gandhi as the probable future prime minister of India. Mrs. Indira Gandhi's refusal throughout the last two years to face the facts about her son's inordinate ambitions has shocked most of her admirers. Could she not see that this get-rich-quick son of a mother who swore by Garibihato, as the person running the maruti,(?) was playing ducks and drakes with money taken in advance from motor agents for a people's car which has still to come on the road? Was she unaware that he was put next to the late president of India on the flagship of the Indian navy at the naval parade, though he has no position in the government of our country? And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in the exercise of executive authority in many matters of appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to the pandals by her chief ministers to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called? Those of us who knew her father are sanguined that Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order."

Prabhupāda: He wanted.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: That is international library of the RSSR. That is... Huliyansa(?) He's the director. I have seen that letter. With their office. They asked me to translate it. I translated that letter not long ago. And I passed it on, request. So I am aware of what they are doing, and I know what they do not do also. I not only feel the heartbeat of pulse of the people of India, but I feel the pulse of the heartbeat in Communist countries as well. I am very happy that I am here after having missed the name of Lord Nārāyaṇa for six years in Soviet Union, where the people chant only Lenin's name. It is being duly compensated (indistinct). You made this possible. I have gone through ten volumes of your book that you have written. They are really...

Prabhupāda: Which book? Bhāgavatam?

Guest (2): Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Caitanya...

Dr. Sharma: So I've been reading the commentary after commentary. I enjoyed them. It was full of honey and nectar and knowledge to people who are insignificant and idiots like me. (Prabhupāda laughs) I enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu also presented Himself as idiot number one. He said to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Him that "You are a sannyāsī. You do not read Vedānta and You chant and dance. What is this?" So He answered, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. "My guru found Me a fool number one, so he has chastised Me, 'You rascal, You are fool, You cannot read Vedānta. You Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " So it is good that we remain as fools and idiot. Then we can make progress. And if we think, "Oh, I know everything," then finished. It is a good attitude. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That he can select. You can see my books, and whichever you want to begin first. That will be great service. But actual communism, what is called, socialism, is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Guest (2): Real socialism in there in Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: In the Seventh Canto. That in your house if there is even a snake, see that he is not starving. This... Just see. If there is a lizard, if there is a snake, then see that he is not starving. You must give him food. Where is that communism?

Guest (1): We appreciate Communism as it stands now or socialism, what they call it?

Prabhupāda: No. Our communism is that Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "In every species of life, as many forms of life are there, material nature is their mother and I am the seed-giving father." So everyone is Kṛṣṇa's son. And everything is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property. Every son has got the right to enjoy the property of the father.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): In the essence of Communism the very fact of existence of God itself is denied.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (1): The existence of God itself is questioned or denied in Communism.

Prabhupāda: They may deny so many things foolishly, but that is not the fact.

Guest (1): We understand. But even to such peoples, Communism, the word itself shows it is not accepting God. Then why we should interpret that Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whatever we have, is....

Prabhupāda: They may not accept God, but they are sons of God. You may become a madman—you don't accept your father. That does not mean that you have no father.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.

Dr. Sharma: The Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera. It is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discovery, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): No, my point is everyone has some special strategy if we don't want the total population the world is Communist. Should not there be a special strategy to enter in their own hearts?

Prabhupāda: This is special strategy, that as far as possible, give them those who are educated, read then, give them chance to read. And those who are not, let them come, and music and dance. Everyone likes to do this. And take prasādam, feast, lecture. Common sense.

Guest (2): Politic of other.

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So I think this dramatic party is practical. Immediately you can do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśava Mahārāja, he speaks Russian also. So he can go with them if they go for a short time. He was there in Moscow for some time.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So you keep Mr. Sharma's address, and you suggest some letters. Try to do something with these Communists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Prabhupāda: So some prasādam. (Hindi) (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa gives prasādam) (break) (Hindi conversation) Chief Minister, Mr. Chawan, he has highly recommended our movement.(Hindi) It is bona fide religion. So we are trying to distribute the sublime knowledge of India—Kṛṣṇa knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So (Hindi). (end)

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can see, both, and select which room for which quarter. Big, big room... (Bengali)

Dr. Sharma: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent.

Dr. Sharma: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He's organizing this, that Poland, communist country. He has accepted hard knot. And knocking. (Bengali)

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to go up to the roof now?

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. (Bengali) You are all able.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (aside:) Yeah, tomorrow I'll go and see everything.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So? No, I shall go. Utsāhād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu..., ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And book selling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book selling... We sell at least, say, I would say, something like about four hundred dollars worth of books every Sunday at the temple. Most of the people who came, they came because they bought your book, and we gave them an invitation to the feast. Everyone who has joined has bought your book first. That is their introduction to Kṛṣṇa consciousness—a book. Very few people come first to a temple. First thing they take and read your book. Then they become interested. The book goes into their home. (break) They can put these. Oh, yeah... Because they're libraries. I mean, they can buy the books. They can buy the books. The theology, arts... Nothing wrong with their buying, but probably they... From what I know, the general system is that you don't send salesmen into these communist countries. You send a brochure, and they buy through their agents. And this is unheard of, that someone sneaks into a country with all these books and preaches. He said sometimes his life is threatened.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So we are criticizing, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But no one else is.

Prabhupāda: Nobody understands that these are bad things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Before I met you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was smoking cigarettes. So I tried to stop so many times 'cause someone would say it is bad for health. But when you said it is bad for spiritual life, then I could stop, 'cause no one ever said that before, that these things are against spiritual life. No one every said that. Everything is put on such a mundane level, no one cares. But when we're told that "You are spirit, and this is against your spiritual life," then it hits very deeply. Apart from you, no one has ever said anything about spiritual life in the West.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual life. Everywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, what to speak of the West, these Communist countries...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, in India also.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Actually the body is changing. All his efforts-futile. And he is eternal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also a blow to the communist world, Communism also. It has several effects.

Prabhupāda: That scientist said life slipped away from his...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, somehow life escaped from his fingers. So that's a proper word. I'm quoting his word, using it as an authentic quote from them. We also use some words which will be not so favorable when they read these things, our things. We're also trying to criticize them, that they are...

Prabhupāda: That do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...intellectually dishonest, try to propagate a false knowledge in the name of scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That moon hoax.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ghanaśyāma. About his activities?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, it is very interesting, how they are fighting against odds to introduce our movement. There is a written description.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one Negro devotee of Prabhupāda. They're distributing books in communist countries. So he has written a report how they are fighting against odds.

Surendra Kumar: Oh, yes, I... Quite right.

Dr. Kumar: Ghanaśyāma came here last year.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That Negro boy.

Surendra Kumar: I told him that "These people will form the hard core, and that, our organization will be organized and then..." He also said that so many temples are dying out.

Prabhupāda: It will develop. (Hindi conversation) Thakur has become a source of income.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was a principal somewhere?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This boy was the top of his class in Yale University. He's the president of the class, top man in the entire graduating class. (continues reading letter describing preaching activities and book distribution in Communist Yugoslavia) Sometimes my life is being threatened or sought after by the authorities. Still..."

Prabhupāda: It is very dangerous work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Still Lord Caitanya always gives me protection..." (continues reading letter)

Surendra Kumar: Wonderful.

Prabhupāda: What is the news?

Surendra Kumar: Is he permanently staying there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, traveling around.

Surendra Kumar: Because I know two very powerful Indians who have settled there.

Prabhupāda: The sales report, book report.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The sales report, book report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book sales report?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (background conversation about Ghanaśyāma and preaching in Communist countries)

Surendra Kumar: Actually, what you are doing nobody else has been doing in the past.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: Everybody is aware of our great heritage except ourselves. That is the most unfortunate thing.

Prabhupāda: The sales report, what is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is sales report we just received. It's as of March 6, 1977. It reports the book sales in each language up to date. (reads book distribution figures)

Surendra Kumar: Can I have a copy of this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace, when I will write the personal letter to...

Prabhupāda: Give him whatever he wants.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: 6:30 in the morning?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I was ready for them. My first meeting was the most important one."

Prabhupāda: It means that they do... These communist countries, they work so hard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They rise up, 4:30, prepare for going to work. Then work begins at 6:30. Is it not more load than the ass? Still they have to do that, by force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "I was escorted to the Dean's office. He was also the chairman of the Philosophy and Sociology Institute. He requested both standing orders for the Institute."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting standing orders, all.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Gurudāsa would feel bad. "As your cooperator." He says, "Not having the association of the devotees for some time, the thought of meeting a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa's was compelling me to move faster and faster towards the train. Now Gurudāsa Swami and myself are together, and we are vigorously agitating our minds in thinking about so many ways of working together in the next Communist country,..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...Bulgaria."

Prabhupāda: Now, if you work cooperatively, you'll get more strength. It is raining?

Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says the next country is Bulgaria. "So as to give the maximum number of people a chance to participate in Lord Caitanya's saṅkīrtana program, as we are so fallen and incompetent..."

Prabhupāda: The chanting, did they give?

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I am not in favor of sending... They are not receptive at the present time. Here in Europe, although they are Communist, they are now hankering after some knowledge. These rascals are very uncivilized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chinese.

Prabhupāda: China, Japan. They are not taken as civilized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they are not, especially the Chin...

Prabhupāda: Dog-eaters, caṇḍāla. The dog-eaters are the lowest of the mankind. They are dog-eaters. In Europe they do not eat dog. And they're Indo-European stock. These are dog-eaters. They're rejected. We accept them as living entities, but their quality is the lowest. So they are not yet prepared to receive such exalted knowledge. Better let that book be pushed slowly. Let them become fit gradually. Then we'll go. For the time being, they are not fit. They can be expert in... You see in your country, so many Chinese are now... What was their business? There... They went there as craftsmen, as carpenter, as..., not as professor or teacher of philosophy.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why attacked?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the only thing we could guess is that now the government is Communist. So it may be that these were Communist-inspired dacoits. I mean, three hundred, if there was actually... It must have been quite a huge number. That means they were organized. It's not some ordinary village dacoits to have such a huge number of them. So the Communists, maybe they did this. It's hard to understand until we get the report from Jayapatākā. He said he's sending it.

Prabhupāda: And police did not help?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was in the middle of the night.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And police did not help?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was in the middle of the night. So probably by the time they informed the police, you know, by the time the police came, whatever was done was done. I mean, Gopāla didn't have the full information, and he's going there. And, of course, we were only talking over telephone, so even if he knew... He told me as much as he could over the telephone. But I asked if anyone was killed. He said no. But five devotees were in the hospital. You know that teacher who was here? Hiraṇyagarbha? Remember the gurukula teacher? He was stabbed. I think that's about the most serious that anyone was hurt. No one was killed or anything, but... The government now is very precarious there. It's all Communist government. I mean, I remember when Bengal was with the Communists in 1971. It was horrible there. So many marches, and so many of our members were being attacked. So maybe it was the Communists who did this. I don't think the Gauḍīya Maṭha could have organized such a thing. They would not do that.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It sounds like... I don't know if there's any... Probably they won't attack again immediately. Now there must be police all the time there. I remember, in Calcutta once we had some trouble. Immediately they put a police guard all the time. The question is, of course, how much the government will protect us if the government is Communist and these were Communists who attacked. That we'll have to see.

Prabhupāda: No. It has to be taken to the Central Government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I thought also. I suspect that Gopāla wants to get the full information firsthand. Then he has to come to Vṛndāvana-Delhi anyway, so probably he'll come from Calcutta to Delhi directly to deal with the Central government. At that time, we should take the help of Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja's friend, Mr. Gupta. This is the proper occasion.

Prabhupāda: But if the dacoits attack, we used gun, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Self-protection.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bengal has become ruined.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're the only place in all of India that elected a Communist government. Everyone else was so happy to elect the new party. But they elected Communists. Most amazing.

Prabhupāda: Where is Vrindavan?

Devotee: He's resting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, what I'm thinking is that that Mr. Arora, he wanted to go to Jyoti Basu.

Prabhupāda: He talks too much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it's going to have much consequence. If they want to give us the land, they'll give it. It's not that...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding that land, if they want to give it, they'll give it. It's not that somebody's going to come, like Mr. Arora, and by his coming suddenly they're going to give us the land. It's a big political matter. It's not friendship. We just have to become very much prepared now for such occurrences. Those gurukula boys, as they grow up, they should be trained to protect Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say kṣatriya. Some of our men should be trained as kṣatriya.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But everyone can be utilized if you organize it rightly. Three hundred dacoits there means government is very weak.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's just in one little area, Nadia District. Imagine how many dacoits are in all of Bengal now. It will get even worse than it was in 1971. I'm sure, as the Kali-yuga progresses, it will only get worse. And it was very bad. I remember when we were living in Bali Ganj. Every day there was march. People were marching, Communist slogans.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru was saying that one of the reasons Bengali people are by nature... They're intelligent. They're always intelligent people, not so much physically hard working. So without so much physical work to do and without proper employment, this intelligence now has become misdirected. 'Cause nowhere else in India do the Communists have such a foothold as in Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent and lazy.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So do you know anything about Bengal situation?

Vrindavan De: I think it's okay now.

Prabhupāda: What is the Communist view?

Vrindavan De: Communist view?

Prabhupāda: They don't want religion? What is this leader? Ajit Bose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jyoti Bose.

Vrindavan De: No, he's not the man of that sort. He's very serious type of man.

Prabhupāda: But Bengal is now full of rogues and rascals and dacoits, everywhere. Practically whole Bengal is full of these elements.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) Any intelligent person can understand this is all Communist propaganda. And the Central Government is seeking an opportunity to drive them away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To drive away the Communists.

Prabhupāda: If they can find out the snake behind the earthworm, then they'll be finished. That there is. There is no case. Simply it is maneuver. Communist government wants to drive away the Americans. This is the plan. And the government is anxious to keep good relationship with America. And the Communist wants to drive them away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Now the American Consulate is also involved. That makes it very jeopardizing for the Communists. If they act the wrong way, then the Central Government will lose its position with the American Embassy. It will look very bad for the Central Government. They're not going to let the state act in any way that will jeopardize their position. The two acting together, the Central Government and the American Consulate...

Prabhupāda: It is very clear that it is a plan of the Communists.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So the Communist country they will be following.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Any educational center interested in giving a complete education to its pupils should follow the example set by the University of California, the British Library, the Oxford University, and the University of Bombay, among many others, who have ordered sets of the BBT's encyclopedia. As an Indian, I am proud of the vast accomplishments of my fellow countryman, Swami Prabhupāda.' "

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness." (break) (long pause) So... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Because they are missing the aim of life, they are committing suicide. And this varṇāśrama-dharma was planned in such a way that everyone would be spiritually advanced. The weaver will get, the potter will get, the blacksmith will get, the brāhmaṇa is already there, kṣatriya will get—everyone. For them, lower-class men, demigod worship. At least they are accepting there is some higher authority. Among the blacksmith there is viśvakarma-pūjā. One day they will wash all the instruments of blacksmith. Somehow or other, all are cleaned. And with the fruit, with flower, candana, they'll worship.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ghee and oil, both were used. Where is that happiness gone?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one's happy nowadays.

Prabhupāda: Therefore there is struggle. Communist, this, that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you still see a little bit of that happiness in smaller towns.

Prabhupāda: No, in the village. They have got enough milk, grains. Is it not? Grāmete dudha dhana cala ekhana nai, gatas paya.(?) Eh? Fruit. They import. They make them poverty-stricken. If the villagers do not sell, ample fruit. But these townsmen, they go there, pay them, and out of greediness they sell their own food only for money. And then they spend for drinking and cinema and... Horrible civilization. Those packets, bring here. (Bengali conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those packets from Yamunā. Is that what you want?

Prabhupāda: No, no, yesterday...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that, from the medicine cabinet. Upendra put it away. The chalk and other things.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...are completely against us. He says Girirāja and himself are meeting leading Hindus like Sadaji Vitlal, etc. He said, "We will have to bring up the Calcutta incident in Parliament." He says this has to be brought up in Parliament. "It was just like Uganda." Just like what happened in Uganda. Whole thing is a plot of the Communists.

Prabhupāda: And it has gone to the Central Government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that. I guess you must have got that information from the newspaper. I didn't know that. I mean just see. Fifty of them together stealing the grass. That's organized. Two hundred fifty people waiting in the bushes, knowing that we will try to stop them from stealing, and suddenly they all rush into the gate, destroy the gate, cut the wires, cut the telephone line, destroy the waterpumps. Every one of these things is criminal. We did not do anything wrong, no wrong in any case. And yet they arrest us. The American government... Actually this should be pushed from the American government. That will have tremendous effect. We should let the American government defend us.

Prabhupāda: Is the Consulate has come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Consulate went to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: We already said that this is a Communist plan.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We already said that this is a Communist plan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They stripped a woman naked. Look at how these Muslims behaved. And after all these years of our distributing prasādam, and still they act like this.

Prabhupāda: They are Communist group. Muslims are not so bad, but the Communists... They are... Communists are creating as Hindu-Muslim or like that, religious group. He has written something about Communists?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The newspapers are being told what to print. They're afraid to print anything else. But foreign press can print anything. And other press, Delhi press, Bombay press, they can print anything. This was dated the eleventh.

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This report is already there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next, then the next is: "Probe Urged Into Krishna Cultists. Chief Minister Jyoti Basu has urged the Central Government to investigate how some of the foreign Vaiṣṇavas of Māyāpur temple of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness who clashed with the villagers last weekend could return to India after extradition from the country." And he's against us. Naturally, he's a big Communist. "In his report on the incident to Home Minister Charan Singh, Mr. Basu has drawn the Center's attention to reports that these foreigners came back to India by obtaining new passports and visas. This aspect, he felt, should be inquired into." He's against us. "The US Consulate visited the āśrama and met some of the American Vaiṣṇavas. The Consulate has not lodged any complaint with the government about the Friday incident."

Prabhupāda: I think he has gone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This whole thing is planned by the Communists. Will the government understand that? The Central Government?

Prabhupāda: They surely understand.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay. July 12th. There's a lot of touchy items here. One very touchy item is this Hindu-Muslim thing. And this... The Communists are very intelligent. They purposely chose... (break) What about the actual ministers? Cabinet ministers?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cabinet ministers, there are sober, Morarji Desai and some of them. This Vajpayi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vajpayi. That means that they took it that we were a threat. They are feeling the weight of our movement.

Prabhupāda: They are practically seeing that we are going village to village and people are receiving us. So if these Americans push on the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, naturally people will take it. And that was my idea from the beginning, that if the Americans become Vaiṣṇavas, then others will be. It is four?

Upendra: Three. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa men. They want Bengal completely godless.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The real issue is the Communists do not want any religious movement in Bengal. That is real issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we're the only one left. Ramakrishna Mission is not religious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gauḍīya Maṭha is ineffective. And the Christians are not big.

Prabhupāda: This guṇḍā class, they do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ramakrishna also does not. They say that Caitanya had men. In Orissa also the people emasculated. In Orissa they say that since Mahārāja Pratāparudra met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he lost his kṣatriya strength. He was very powerful king, but since he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he became effeminate.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Slow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Everywhere we go, people either know about you or they are very eager to find out about Kṛṣṇa and yourself by reading your books. Anyone who has distributed your books in the Communist countries will support my claim that nowhere in the world are people more appreciative of your books." He's been everywhere, Prabhupāda, and he says that your books are more appreciated in the Communist countries than anywhere else in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are hungry. (break) What to speak of saintly men. (break) ...honest, satisfied with simple living. Where do...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People don't even know those things at all.

Prabhupāda: Everyone was satisfied with simple living. They did not want much income.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let me go this side and come back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gentlemen who are... It is good suggestion. It is a Communist government plan to cut down. Communists think of God as a farce. And we are stressing on God consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Surabhī Swami sent some plan of the Bhaktivedanta Institute building, sent a blueprint.

Prabhupāda: Where is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I bring it? (break) They sent also... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they want people join together and protest. And what is the response from Caitanya Maṭha? And that Surendranath Das is with Caitanya Maṭha, or he's doing something independently? A remark by such a great officer, I.D., is not to be neglected.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night I heard on the radio—they were having news-yesterday in the Raja Sabha (Senate of the Indian Government) the Communist leader Bhupesh Gupta, he said that the government should close the Māyāpur center.

Prabhupāda: That is their business. Now you have to take the opposite, that "Why these people are so anxious about this unrest? Let there be further inquiry by the Janata party. And suspend..." No. Yes. "And suspend the Communist government for the time being."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suspend the Communist government. Why suddenly the Communists are saying that "Oh, here is CIA"? Now, if they're saying that, Prabhupāda said, then you they should ask them "Oh, there's a big thing with them. Let us investigate." Investigate the whole matter thoroughly.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're doing that now. The CID is investigating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the Central Government should investigate. Then it will be...

Prabhupāda: It should be taken by the Central Government.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It should be taken by the Central Government.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The CID is under the Central Government.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is all ci... It is a Communist manipulation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still in jail.

Prabhupāda: Some books you have brought for selling?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these are just advance copies. They'll be coming by regular mail.

Prabhupāda: Some books are ready or not?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I just brought these with me.

Prabhupāda: Hindi books are selling now.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And the books I don't want to touch, because it is for the government of India.

Prabhupāda: No. That's nice. We have got so many avenues. So print books as soon as possible. This gives me life. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya. (break)

Prabhupāda: Send this copy to this Communist man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Give him a little heartache.

Prabhupāda: Just photograph a copy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. When Yaśomatīnandana goes to Delhi he can make a photocopy. Send it to the man by mail. "Thought we'd let you know, CIAs are back in Māyāpur." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...because there is psychological difference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, one thing is that... Of course, when one has no energy, when one has no strength, then it's hard to be active. But then the other thing is true, that when one is active, he gets appetite automatically.

Prabhupāda: Therefore those who are physically active, they can eat more.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, Ratha-yātrā has been performed. This is good news. Thank you. (break) Each standing order is for eight hundred rupees, seventeen books. So four thousand. So how much it becomes?

Dr. Kapoor: These boys are doing very good work. How much enthusiasm they are putting in.

Prabhupāda: There is two, three groups working in the Communist country. So we are getting very encouraging report, especially for Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So what is the price of four thousand sets at eight hundred rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's about thirty-two lakhs' rupees, four thousand...

Prabhupāda: So beyond imagination. (laughter) We printed Caitanya-caritāmṛta, twenty thousand copies. Out of that, five thousand copies are already sold, and we have collected at least forty lakhs of rupees. And India also we are getting orders even from Bangladesh, Dacca, Dacca University. So by Prabhupāda's āśīrvāda things are going very encouraging. What we have sold in the last one week? The last report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The last report... This is simply from the American and Western European countries, it was reported in one week, June 27th to July 3rd, they sold 51,000 hardcover books, then 30,000 medium size books, 20,000 small books, and 140,000 magazines in one week.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not bad.

Yaśomatīnandana: But he might not come immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he wanted to meet Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't go to him. This Māyāpur incident is a handling of the Communists.

Yaśomatīnandana: Now there is Communist government there.

Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpur affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also. They wanted to give a communal color. But the whole thing is Communist plan. And their aim is to wipe out any religious movement. That is their open declaration in other Communist...

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not? Let him.

Yaśomatīnandana: Because he can say he has five companies; now he has given his life to Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: But I am sure this Māyāpur incident is a Communist plan. That is...

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, that is sure.

Prabhupāda: There is no doubt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has come.

Prabhupāda: Has he brought some books?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. I just got word that he was here.

Yaśomatīnandana: I think he has brought First Canto, Part Two, Hindi.

Prabhupāda: He is very slow, printing.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So whatever it may be, it is Communist plan.

Abhirāma: But he is expected to make such statements. He is always making so many statements, and no one listens, again and again and again. It is his style. They expect him to...

Prabhupāda: So they are their party men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we should take advantage of this and say, "Oh, there is an issue there? Then let us investigate." We should take advantage of this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The party should take very serious investigation, and if possible, suspend government for the time being.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suspend the West Bengal government.

Prabhupāda: So that will be nice step.

Abhirāma: So we should challenge these Communists.

Prabhupāda: What you'll challenge? They will challenge. Don't talk of... They say also, "Close this temple."

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere they have made colonies. So I am getting very good news, book distribution, from Europe and America.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Rāmeśvara Swami told me the book distribution has doubled in America.

Prabhupāda: And Communist country wonderfully.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you that letter that I got from Russia inviting us to come to the...

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. They have sold at least thirty to forty lakhs' worth Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Yaśomatīnandana: Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) .

Prabhupāda: Bengali's price.(?) Still, they are purchasing. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So our movement is on that platform, how to stop. Our whole Vedic culture is based on that process. When Viśvāmitra Mahārāja went to see Daśaratha about..., Daśaratha Mahārāja inquired from Viśvāmitra, aihistaṁ(?) yat punar-janma-jayāya: "You are great saintly person. You are trying to conquer over birth and death. Is your process going on nicely?" Viśvāmitra inquired Daśaratha Mahārāja about royal activities, government, prosperity, because he was kṣatriya and he was brāhmaṇa. So my request... This, our Gītā philosophy, that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ... (BG 4.13). There must be a class of men, ideal brāhmaṇas; a class of men, ideal kṣatriyas; class of men, ideal vaiśyas; and balance, śūdras, to help. That will make the human society happy. Cooperate. Just like body. There are different departments: head department, then arms department, then the belly department and the leg department. If they are all in good condition, the health is all right. And now, at the present moment, I am suffering because my belly department is not working nicely. So we cannot neglect any department. There must be all the departments, and they must be cooperative and healthy. So this movement is meant for that purpose. It is the duty of government to give us protection. The counter movement is this Communistic movement. They want to drive away God conscious and we want to give God con..., completely opposite. Therefore they do not like it.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Distorted. Manufactured by the Communists.

Governor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So give us little protection. That is my request.

Governor: We'll do it, no doubt. I'm meeting the Prime Minister tomorrow, and we are going to discuss that matter. This is my daughter. She stays in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. She is married?

Governor: She is married. She has a husband. She was also an advocate in... This is husband. He's in the government of India agricultural department now.

Prabhupāda: Very good. We are very much interested in agriculture.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Governor: When she was four years old, this girl, she was telling me in Ahmedabad often, "Dādājī, you take me to Vṛndāvana." I said, "Why?" "So that we will meet Kṛṣṇa." I said, "But to..., Kṛṣṇa will not be..." "No, no, I will see. You will meet Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there. You must go to Vṛndāvana."

Prabhupāda: Just see. She is natural Vaiṣṇavī. Natural Vaiṣṇavī. So give them proper education. This is real education. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). That is the Vedic civilization, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛt ca aham. So at least this knowledge from India must be spread all over the world. We are making a humble attempt. We have no such thing, these... "You have got money and I'll snatch it." The Communists take it. Just see. They have taken. "Why so big, big buildings? Take them away."

Governor: In Madras I find quite a good atmosphere for this religious character.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I know that.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I...

Governor: ...because your life is precious to... And that should not be.

Prabhupāda: No, I...

Governor: He must not take much strain also.

Prabhupāda: Even in communistic country they are receiving my literature very great. Very great. So it is for all humanity.

Governor: I will help to my best. I take leave?

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to governor) You'll have darśana in the temple now? (end)

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Any sane man will receive our...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's helping us in Karachi to open a temple now. And in Lebanon also...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is accepting. It is for all, even Communist countries. Everyone is accepting our literature, our attempt. That's a fact. And you do not heard about the report in the South Africa. South Africa, the Europeans hate the Indians like anything. Now they're receiving our literature. That means they will now appreciate Indian culture. They'll understand that India has got some substance.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very important point to bring up even with the government.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter)

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is being done now. So he has to judge from this intelligence. We do not maintain any political view, what American government or Indian government... We want the whole people of the world, let them become human being. That is our movement. What is this? Simply killing business is going on. All governments should cooperate, pushing on this movement for humanity's sake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually in Communist countries now, Eastern Europe, in the universities, they are cooperating. But why these Bengali Marxists, they are not? The Communists are cooperating.

Prabhupāda: They know that we are the only enemy against their movement. Let me...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A letter has come from Haridāsa. In Bombay, your disciple, Haridāsa Brahmacārī? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...by good association. This is the result of our movement. (break) (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru? Should I call for him?

Prabhupāda: Hmm... Such nice color display, and there is no brain. The animal-killer civilization, Western country, has killed all their brain, good sense, good sentiment, everything.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What did you do with food? (?) (break)

Śatadhanya: Prasādam. And they have kīrtana. They are so-called communists. Actually Bengalis are devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Simply that they know your name is enough to purify all of Bengal, what to speak of if you remain present, the whole world will become completely flooded by kṛṣṇa-prema. That is why we are begging you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you remain with us for some time longer, because we are very weak and are still attached to material sense gratification. But if you are present, it is like a transcendental ocean.

Prabhupāda: There is some strain here. Why not make big or...? (soft kīrtana in Prabhupāda's room)

Upendra: You have some pain.

Prabhupāda: Not pain, but veins straining.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.

Jayapatākā: Yes. No, we have no intention to drop the charges. That will not clear our name. The day I returned, the Secretary General... Rather, the General Secretary of the State Congress Party, Mr. K. K. Sukla, he just happened to visit our mandira, and he heard the whole story, and he said that he'll give whatever support he can, and if they get back into any power, then he'll see that our programs get full assistance. Then our lawyer told us that he has been talking to some ministers in the present Communist government, and they're saying that they're willing to support our movement if we do some works that are beneficial for the people. They're not saying that we're not doing any so far, but any other things like the bridges or the schemes we have, they're willing to give us support for those. By your mercy everything is gradually changing around. The tantric astrologer there, he gave some predictions.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayapatākā: Well, about two weeks ago he had told Bhavānanda that he would be called to Vṛndāvana and that all the GBCs or leaders of the Society would be called to Vṛndāvana to see Your Divine Grace.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Only thing is that M. M. De and Sulaksmana. They should not be given more than twelve...(?) (two hundred...?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The only thing is about M. M. De? I've just dictated a letter to the Central Bank of India. I'm going to send this letter to Girirāja that...

Prabhupāda: He has become Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're giving him no..., 250 now, but 750 is put in fixed deposit for him. The total is a thousand rupees he's getting. He only gets 250. But the other part is put into fixed deposit for seven years. I don't want to change that letter to the bank, because we've given it as a standing order now.

Prabhupāda: He can simply get...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two-fifty.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, the fact that he turned to Communism... Probably he's intelligent but frustrated. That's why they turn to this Communism. And he has a very good upbringing, so much association. I mean Vrindavan had no association, but M.M. had a lot of association, not only with Your Divine Grace but with your Guru Mahārāja and Godbrothers. So perhaps with proper, little cultivation, he might...

Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme and ask him if he wants to discuss this with me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. But I won't have the amendment to the scheme until tomorrow night.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Amendment you can give later on. You can give the scheme.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: When one of the Communist papers was writing a critical report about us, then they said that "They even have a building that's longer than the Writer's Building. How they have done this, shamed our state building?" (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The gate is bigger than the Governor's gate and the building is longer than the Writer's Building. Kṛṣṇa is first. When we build that temple, it will... (laughter) Then everyone will simply be silent. That will end all comment.

Prabhupāda: They are already silent. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their entire outlook is an economic one. They have no... They don't feel that there's any importance to culture or any of the finer sentiments except that they may further the economic consideration. Politically also, their political understanding is also ultimately directed for economics. Any of their political dealings with other countries are all ultimately to establish this economic Communism.

Prabhupāda: How human society is falling down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the definition given in the Vedas, they don't classify as human beings.

Prabhupāda: Don't try for China.