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Colleges (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: I notice that most of your followers, at least in this temple, are young, like in the college age or in the teenage. Is it because Kṛṣṇa doesn't attract the older generation, I mean, yourself excluded?

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone. Just like magnetic stone attracts iron. But the iron is covered with too much muddy things—the magnetic force does not work. This younger generation, they are not too much dirty; therefore they are very easily attracted. You see? It is like a magnetic force. The same example, that magnetic force attracts iron. That is natural. But if the iron is too much rusty and covered with muddy things, then it does not act. So older generation means they are convinced in some way. They cannot accept any new thing. You see? They are in the last stage of life. Whatever they have understood, they cannot forget. But younger generation, they have got capacity to take new things. Just like nobody goes... No old man goes to school because they are unable to receive education. But younger generation, they go. So there is a age to receive. So this age is recipient. Therefore naturally—it is nice thing—they are receiving.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Devotee (1): You were talking about Prahlada.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Prahlada Maharaja said. Yes. About this body. It is arrangement, according to different body. Now, these swans, they have left this, defending, they're going away. This is defending only. Yes. And as soon as they're on the water, they think, "Oh, we are safe because these rascals cannot come in the water." (laughter) They are thinking about us "rascals." As we are thinking about them that they are lower animals, so they are also thinking, "These are rascals." Just like some father rebukes a son, the son also thinks of the father as rascal, "Unnecessarily he's chastising me." There is a proverb that as the child grows... (break) ...also thinks that "This boy is a fool; he'll do wrong by..." This is stated. And the child is stated in a different way. Just like sometimes our audience also. When we speak they think, "What nonsense he's speaking. Oh, Kṛṣṇa, what is this Kṛṣṇa? Let us enjoy." They are not purified. So this Prahlada Mahārāja says that according to the body, the specific facilities of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is already arranged. It is already arranged. So one hasn't got to learn. Just like for mating. There is no college or school where in the classroom dis..., that "This is way you have to mate." Everyone knows automatically.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: The psychology is that the girls, generally, before attaining puberty if she loves one boy, she cannot forget him. That is her psychology. And a boy also, when he is grown up, the first girl he makes choice, he also cannot forget. Therefore, by some way or other they are mixed up. So in your country the situation is different. You see? The boys and girls are freely mixing, and from school, college, they are freely mixing, free sex without any restriction. So we cannot enforce, at least, at the present moment. If some boy and some girl agree, then I bless him. That's all. Now another thing, that girls should not be taken as inferior. You see? Sometimes... Of course, sometimes scripture we say that "Woman is the cause of bondage." So that should not be, I mean to say, aggravated. (laughs) That should not be aggravated, that "Woman is inferior," or something like that. So the girls who come, you should treat them nicely, at least. I heard that Gargamuni, after his wife left him, he became a woman-hater like that. (chuckles) That is not good. You see? Yes. After all, anyone who is coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, man or woman, boys or girls, they are welcome. They are very fortunate. You see. And the idea of addressing "prabhu" means "you are my master." That is the... Prabhu means master. And Prabhupāda means many masters who bows down at his lotus feet. That is Prabhupāda. So each, everyone shall treat others as "My master." This is the Vaiṣṇava system.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Janārdana: If they pay, then they will have to get something out of it. They will force themselves to get something out of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone paid. The Massachusetts Technical College and Eastern University. Eastern University there is...?

Janārdana: I think so.

Prabhupāda: Then Harvard University and Boston University, and one church. They have paid, yes. And one church, Arlington Church, in that church... I think you were present there? Arlington Church?

Govinda dasi: Unitarian?

Prabhupāda: No. You have not been in Boston. Some girls from temple, they were present.

Govinda dasi: Annapūrṇa?

Prabhupāda: Annapūrṇa is always present wherever I go. (laughing) She is very nice, that she wants to follow me. This morning I was asking her that "After your marriage where you want to stay?" and she said, "Wherever you stay, I stay." "And I am traveling. Then you are married. You must have a place to settle." Anyway, in that church they charged us for meeting, but we collected very nicely. We collected more than hundred dollars. Yes. A very nice meeting.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Latin is from Sanskrit. Yes. Latin is from Sanskrit. Professor Rowe and Webb of Presidency College in Calcutta, they have got a grammar. They have said the Sanskrit language is mother of all languages. They were big English scholar, professor, Mr. Rowe and Webb. We had to read their grammar in our childhood. They have said that Sanskrit language is the mother of all languages. And in the dictionary you'll find Indo-European language practically all from Sanskrit. The original word mātṛ-śabda—the "mater," no?

Allen Ginsberg: But the question I'm posing still is this. You accept the possibility of a series of Kṛṣṇa consciousness centers in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided a man is not adversely inclined. Otherwise it is very simple.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You told me in San Francisco. Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: So he heard two rounds of it. Okay. I have to take a plane today to a Catholic college in New York State. I'll be going back to New York at one o'clock, so I have to go back and pack and say good-bye to the students. It was a pleasure to see you here, lovely. So maybe we'll do it again in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I'll call. Thank you for your words and thank you for letting me join you.

Prabhupāda: My... You are already chanting. But if we do together, it will be very nice.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then the maṭha command, secretary. Not with you, not that all, everyone, is leaving. You may leave sometimes. You want to go to your college, university, like that?

Hayagrīva: Well, I'll be gone every week about half a week for the whole school year. So somebody has to be here to take charge for three days out of the... I'm at least gone three days at least.

Prabhupāda: So then the Paramānanda is there, and he is there. They are not fools. They are also intelligent. They can manage.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. In the meantime, you prepare the literature. You give me the literature. I'll get it printed somehow or other. You give me the synopsis. Both you consult, make a literature. And as soon as the literature is prepared, you will be out with that. And we have got so many centers. There is no difficulty of staying. He can stay in some center and go and see the important men there. He is educated. He is learned. He has known our philosophy. He can convince people. He can arrange a big meeting of respectable men. They must know what we are doing, the importance of this movement. And your people, your government, is anxious to have something tangible because there are already frustration in so many departments, in so many factions. So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, will, I mean to say, smooth everything, pave everything. So they must know. And our process is very simple. We can introduce this process even in factories, even in anywhere, and we make peaceful everything. That is a fact. School, college, university, factory, everywhere. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ (CC Antya 20.12). It is cleansing process. Everything is dirty.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Satsvarūpa: But still... I've already done that. I've made him, but practically I'm still managing anyway. And I made Murāri manager, but still I'm... I don't spend much time in editing. People are always coming, and I'm running all over the place. I don't edit at all. It makes me sad. I don't...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They must give relief to you. You can give them instruction, but the actual execution should be done... Pradyumna is there. He can also do. But anyone who is expert in management, he should be... Temple management should not be done directly by you. You can give him policy that "You do like this." That's all. Because you have got so many other things to do. Yes. So you create. If there is no expert manager, you create some manager. That is most important thing, to create. To become... (laughs) In our college there was one Mr. Kidd, professor of economics. He was always chastising us. We were student; he was our professor. "Oh, you cannot have independence. You cannot manage it. You cannot manage. You can work just like ass, but if some asses are given under you, you cannot work." He was talking like that. "So don't cry for independence. You are not yet nation." He was talking like that. So actually his experience was nice, that since the Britishers have gone away, the management of Indian government is not nice. They cannot manage. So he was experienced. He told. I sometimes remember that Professor Kidd told me like that. (laughs) So we have to create nice administrator. That is another function, you see? Every department, we shall create assistant, assistant. So that in case he is ill or he is sick, he cannot work, somebody must work for him.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the śāstra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?)

Guest (4): Mahārāja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best...?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.

Guest (4): And Mahārāja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?

Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. You are thinking lower level, and how you can surrender to yourself? Then how you can get advance? Your surrender means to a superior person, as soon as you call surrender. And without this, there is no possibility.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

We have to accept these principles; otherwise how it can make the... There is no possibility. Just like if you want to be educated. You have to be admitted to an institution, in school, in a college. If you say, "I shall be educated at home," that is not possible.

Guest (1): Many have...

Prabhupāda: No "many." This is the general process.

Guest (1): No, general process sometimes have failed.

Prabhupāda: No, why fail? The schools are going on. Colleges are going on.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: There are many instances. But this very word, "by birth one is śūdra," so there is no discrimination that "You are not śūdra. I am not...," by birth, abodha-jāto, because he is born foolish rascal. Now, by saṁskāra, by culture, by education, he becomes dvija, second birth. The practical example is these European and American students. They were doing all nonsense but since they have come to guru their life is reformed; therefore they are dvija. Saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, veda-paṭhet... Now, when he becomes dvija, then he is allowed to study Vedas, not as a śūdra. When we say śūdra has no right to study Vedas, that means he will not be able to understand. Just like you became lawyer, but the condition is, unless you become graduate, unless you have graduated yourself, you cannot enter law college. That does not mean law is prohibited for anyone. It is open for everyone, but first of all you make yourself university graduate; then enter law. Similarly, everyone is śūdra.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: You do not know, but there is a...

Prof. Kotovsky: I have to test. This I do not know, but...

Guest: Yes, one must try to realize it...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that... That... One Dr. Ghosh, professor of medical college, Lal Mohan Ghosh, he... I was medically connected in my previous life. So that Lal Mohan Ghosh analyzed it, and, it is his statement, it is full of, I mean to say, antiseptic properties. So Vedic statements, even sometimes you find it is contradictory, but if you analyze scrutinizingly, you find it is correct.

Prof. Kotovsky: But maybe...

Prabhupāda: There may be some exceptions, but, I mean to say, just like the cow dung is stool—this is an exception—but why this exception is accepted, that if you scientifically examine, analyze, you find it is correct?

Prof. Kotovsky: That is due to analyze. That's right. That's from common sense point of view.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas.

Room Conversation -- September 3, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: ...colleges, universities, that will be very nice.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: I wrote you a while ago. I was working on a doctorate dissertation.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: A doctoral dissertation, a Ph.D. dissertation, that when I became a devotee I was studying religion... (Break)

Prabhupāda: ...Hindu, or I may be a Christian, but the fact is that we are serving somebody. Either you be Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you may profess any religion, but you must be serving somebody. Is it not? So that serving is religion. Try to understand this.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Rationally, I was thought to be intelligent. I went to college, got so many degrees, but I could not in the least control my senses and control my mind, even though I tried. I studied philosophy so hard. But, by simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and coming to the platform of service for God, all my activities became dovetailed in one direction so that the other things were automatically brought under control as a result.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). The exact word is there that if one gets good engagement, he can gives up bad engagement. But he cannot make it inactive. That is not possible because soul is active. It is living. How he can make it inactive? That is not possible. Nirvāṇa means stop nonsense, but take to spiritual life. That is next athāto brahma jijñāsā. Nirvāṇa does not mean to stop activities; to stop nonsense activities. Come to the real activity.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Yes. I've always wanted to go there. We've got four Tibetans over studying (indistinct) part of the college estate of Hampstead. And I've always liked, the idea of their going up into those wonderful mountains and... Although you may say, you know, one mustn't overvalue material things, as far as their diet is concerned, they must be very much like you followers. You know, they have... because they have to learn (indistinct) perfect (indistinct) They have nothing wrong with their gums or their teeth. It must be about the only place in the world...

Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda has all his teeth too he is nearly eighty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've got my natural teeth.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The significance..., there is no significance. These professional Bhāgavata readers, they make money from the public because public wants to hear all these things. Just like we read a novel-a woman is embracing a man, or kissing or having sex. They like it. Therefore they go the Bhāgavata Tenth Canto immediately. Their Bhāgavata reading is professional, not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then go step by step, one by one. First of all read Bhagavad-gītā, try to understand, and you surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, then you enter. Just like after passing entrance examination you enter into the college. Similarly, when you are qualified in accepting Kṛṣṇa as all in all, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66), then you enter into Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study, not ordinary study. But these professionals, they take advantage of the weakness of the people, and they make profession and earn some money. That's all. When we speak of Bhāgavata we speak from First Canto, Second Canto, Third Canto..., the nine cantos to understand Kṛṣṇa. Just like in First Canto the beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, janmādy asya yataḥ. This is Vedānta-sūtra verse. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa for perfect knowledge, then you'll understand what is kṛṣṇa-līlā. (end)

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Deve means the Supreme Lord, and guru, and guru also, the spiritual master. A person who has got unflinching faith in these two personalities-guru and Kṛṣṇa—then the facility will be that all the revealed scriptures will be manifest automatically, even though he is not, not very learned. The purport of the whole knowledge will be revealed from within, because Kṛṣṇa is within, and the spiritual master is without, so both of them will help. Our students are going so many places—in the schools, colleges, universities. They're surprised how they're speaking so nicely, because they have got unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. They are not so learned. They have not gone to the college and learned so many things as the materialistic students do, but on this account: bhakti-yogena manasi. Vyāsadeva also did like that. He became so great because he has accepted bhakti-yoga by the order of his spiritual master, Nārada. Before that, he wrote so many books, Purāṇas and others. He was not satisfied. When Nārada said that "You cannot be satisfied by describing so many material things.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He had to spend much money.

Dr. Kapoor: He got it... It was requisitioned for the college, you see. It was requisitioned.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana University, Vaiṣṇava (indistinct). It was acquired by the government.

Dr. Kapoor: Acquired by the government. That's how he got it cheap. And then he had to go into litigation.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Much litigation, and he was in danger.

Dr. Kapoor: He was in danger.

Śyāmasundara: Still it's not finished.

Prabhupāda: Not yet finished.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: ...force the professorship of his college upon me.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: When I came here after my retirement...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I know that. (break) If you want, you can come sometime to European countries to our different branches.

Dr. Kapoor: Why you make me leave Vṛndāvana now? (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, because you have got some background, so you can have very good chance to speak in big institution.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Now, our simple philosophy is that we are spirit soul. We are eternal. You are eternal. I am eternal. Everyone is eternal. We are changing our body, transmigrating from one body to another. And that means repetition of birth and death, but we are eternal. Why we are in such botheration of repetition of birth and death? Not only that, sometimes in some species of life, may be very high position, sometimes in low position. Suppose somebody is American, and the next life, if he becomes a tree, if he becomes a dog... He may become a demigod also. There is possibility. Just like in future you may be a... (break) ...understand this movement thoroughly and take it seriously. It is for good welfare, for very good welfare. Now, in Europe, America, here also, so many frustrated young boys, they are coming to be practically of no value to the country. In America I see thousands of hippies, they are doing nothing. So what is the future of the country? If the flowers of the country, young boys, they do not take interest in anything, in administration, in industry, then what is the future? From economic point of view I have studied that America, for want of sufficient workers, they are importing goods from Japan. This is not very good sign. Why such a big country, American country, why they should import? But they are obliged to import. They have no workers. Japan's 75% business is done in America. We are not impractical. Because there are so many workers, but they refuse... In Central Park, it is full of rubbish things always. You go. It is a garbage. Why? There is no worker. And on the other side we see so many young men. They are not working, simply idling time. So they do not tackle the real problem. The future is not very hopeful if things go on like this. So many young boys, they are doing nothing. What is the percentage of hippies now in America? A very good percent. All the school colleges.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Devotee: (indistinct) planning to take speaking engagements in the colleges.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotees: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So we shall increase. You can increase the number. So according to vacant position, how many, it may be fifteen?

Devotee: Thirteen.

Prabhupāda: Why not fifteen, make fifteen?

Devotee: We are thinking of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: We are thinking of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Or anyone, you can do. Then you have to reorganize the zones, fifteen zones.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are serious. They have got, they have got (indistinct). Our seriousness will be proved when our books and (indistinct) around thinking men, scholars. Similarly, we should introduce our (indistinct) colleges and universities. This is our program. So I have got my program now, (indistinct). So so far, Vṛndāvana question is concerned, there is, it is solved. Now you make, utilize, and place yourself in the world (indistinct) I want.

Devotee: There are two more GBC appointments that have been made, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are already. Now extra. Now we are increasing to fifteen.

Śyāmasundara: Practically, there is not much... To divide Europe into another zone.

Prabhupāda: No, for the time being you can do it like that. So three has already entered and three has already gone. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa has gone, Hayagrīva has gone, and Kṛṣṇa Dāsa has gone. And we are introducing three: Brahmānanda, Girirāja, and Madhudviṣa.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

John Fahey: Well, they go to college, and so this is where the idea started. It got bigger and bigger and bigger, and now it's out of control. (laughs) It's terrible. It's all-pervasive. (indistinct) I don't kill animals.

Devotee: Vegetarian?

John Fahey: Now, yeah.

Devotee: He's vegetarian.

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you may be cheated, that is another thing. Suppose you ask something from somebody. If he cheats you, that may be your mistake or his, but the process is the same; you cannot avoid it. If you want to know God, then you have to go to a person who knows God. You might have gone to a person who does not know. That is another thing. You went to a wrong person. But actually if you want to know God, you must have to go to a person who knows God. That you have to search out. That requires intelligence. But you cannot give up the idea. Because you have been cheated, "I could not get information"; therefore, you cannot give up that business. You have to find out somebody else. But because you say "I have been cheated. I could not get the right information. I stop this business," that is not allowed. You must. Therefore, according to Vedic order it is said, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Abhigacchet means you must to a person to understand that science of God. You must go to a guru or a man who knows. Guru means who is more intelligent. Guru means weight, heavy, heavier, heavier in knowledge. So you have to find out a person who is heavier than you, not ordinary. Must go. Not that may go or may not go. No. Must go. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And what is the symptom of guru? Śrotriyaṁ. Means he has heard about God from his superior, his guru. Śrotriyaṁ. And how can I know that he has heard from his superior about God? He might say that "Yes, I have heard," but what symptoms? Brahma-niṣṭham. Brahma-niṣṭham means that he has become a complete devotee of God, result. Just like a man, physician. A physician means he has attended the medical college, passed the examination, and the result is that he's practicing as a physician.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Because we practically see, all the college students are hippies. Irresponsible vagabonds. If she wants her son to become like that, that is different thing. Irresponsible vagabonds, that is the present status of this country. The majority of the students, they are becoming irresponsible vagabonds. Is it not?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, correct. We all have experience in that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if she, if she wants son to become irresponsible, irresponsible vagabond, in the association... Of course, our Dallas also we should take very much care so that we may not also produce irresponsible vagabond. So don't cause irresponsible vagabonds.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Devotee: Is the land in Vṛndāvana, is it in the city? Is it on the outside of Vṛndāvana, or is it in the city?

Prabhupāda: No, it is just in front of Bon Mahārāja's college.

Devotee: It's in Rāman Reti.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Best place in Vṛndāvana. All (indistinct). And we have got potential. There are so many buildings, they are not being properly utilized. If we want to, you can purchase the whole area.

Devotee: How is the Gauḍīya...

Prabhupāda: Now you have got enough place in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa, in Bombay. There will be no difficulty if you go by thousands to India. You can live very comfortable. So you can go, purchase, you can go and come back. We saw that foreigners, they visit, and gradually, there will be unity between the so-called Hindu, Muslim, all Kṛṣṇa's servant. This is the idea behind Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't believe in this skin disease. (end)

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That, that we'll have to find, find later on. First of all the principle should be accepted that unless we hear from the perfect person, our knowledge is imperfect. First of all you have to agree to this point. Therefore you are going to your schools, colleges, universities, because at home who could learn everything? So why you are going to school, colleges and universities? That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that in order to know that perfect knowledge, one has to approach the proper person, who is know as guru.

Guest (1): That's what I was getting at.

Guest (2): (aside) Could I ask a couple of questions now?

Devotee: Please. Yes.

Guest (2): Swami, please, I don't want to interrupt. I want to try and ask you a few questions (indistinct). I'm with (indistinct). Swami, what do you think accounts for the..., your popularity, popularity of the..., the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement sweeping America?

Prabhupāda: Because it is not due to my personality. I am presenting the truth as it is. It will appeal. Just like if you prepare some foodstuff with nice ingredients, it will be appealing to everyone, and if you prepare something obnoxious, it may be appealing to a certain section, not to all.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Guest (2): No, not challenge... I'm not saying... I mean, I'm not...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system. You attend the lectures of a professor because he has heard. He has listened the same instruction from his professor. You don't go to a professor who has never gone to school and college.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Just like that man who was searching for the touchstone in the garbage heap (indistinct). How will I find a touchstone in the garbage heap? (indistinct) story on college campuses.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I put some posters in the campus for Long Beach engagement. Somebody was asking me, "What is this knowledge, transcendental knowledge?" "You should come and find out. Please come and find out."

Prabhupāda: Physics has nothing to do with spirit. (break) ...manufacture the subtle(?) parts of motorcar, easily you can go. So this rascal thinking this is advancement, says, "I am killing the soul. The soul is going to become a dog next life after riding motorcar." That is written, and they have no knowledge. But because you have advanced from bullock cart to motorcar, this is.... So rascal they are. They have no knowledge what is advancement.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Indian student?

Devotee (2): Some students, they are going colleges for higher learning.

Prabhupāda: He was inquiring that why we ask no meat-eating. They (indistinct) that why we ask no meat-eating. That Dr. Bernhard, he was asking.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Benford?.

Prabhupāda: Benford. (break) ...before me never dared to ask people to stop meat-eating. Rather, they learned how to eat meat. Vivekananda was eighty years ago, he came. He learned how to eat meat. Instead of teaching Vedānta, he learned how to eat meat.

Jayatīrtha: In the Vedānta Society temple in Santa Barbara, they were offering chicken soup...

Prabhupāda: Prasādam.

Jayatīrtha: ...to the Goddess Kālī an offering, and then they were distributing it as prasādam.

Prabhupāda: In the name of Vedānta.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Ambassador: Is there a movement to get this philosophy or science propagated in the colleges?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are trying, but we...

Ambassador: That's your program.

Prabhupāda: ...we have no patronization, so whatever I have done, single-handed, and these boys help me a little. I did not get any help, either from my government or your government. But it is such a great science, such a great philosophy.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Ambassador: Oh, I think the, what this young man says is very encouraging, that some of this is now being slowly inculcated in our colleges and universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Show him that book, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy. That is selling. That is now recommended in some of the colleges as textbook. Nectar of Devotion is also recommended as a textbook in the Temple University, Pittsburgh. (indistinct)

Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, very good. That's very good. Students are accepting in all earnestness.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Accepting. Accepting. No. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Dr. Kapoor: This also, I haven't seen yet.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is being published by MacMillan Co. They printed in the last half month of August, fifty thousand. That is now finished, now going to second edition.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no spiritual philosophy. It is an academic, ordinary college. People understand that where is the credit, there are so many colleges. Responsible people, they understand that I am doing much more valuable thing. So what is the use of these schools and colleges? That (indistinct) school, college is not very good. And there are so many schools and colleges. That is not a very extraordinary thing.

Gurudāsa: Now I understand that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that school is not teaching spiritual philosophy. I told many people that if we got the chance to open a university, we would not compromise. We would not do anything with the government if they restricted our curriculum...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like before learning any literature, one has to read the first book, ABCD. The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD. It is just beginning of understanding of what is God. ABC. When one has passed the entrance examination, then he gets the opportunity of studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is explaining Himself, and at last He says that you surrender unto me. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So if one has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then He's admitted in the college of studying Bhāgavata. Before that he has no place. Just like without passing entrance examination, nobody's admitted in the college course. Similarly, without understanding Bhagavad-gītā perfectly well, one cannot understand what is Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study. So this Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta-sūtra is the summarized study of all Vedic knowledge. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. So people are in darkness about this great knowledge and the science of God, all over the world. They are misled. They're being misled. Misled in this way, that this human form of life is specially meant for understanding God.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: ...for propagating our mission because the state is inclined to take the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. They have found that this is the wisest (indistinct). Take advantage of this opportunity and (indistinct) in schools, colleges, for teaching (indistinct). They have already translated Bhagavad-gītā, they have got very good results...

Devotee (1): In this language there are three translations.

Prabhupāda: Three?

Devotee (1): Translations.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: We can do anywhere. That is the difference. As far as the government must encourage it as soon as we translate and distribute, they should give us full facility.

Devotee (2): Full facilities for...

Prabhupāda: All the schools, colleges will take it.

Devotee (2): Oh, yes. I see. I see.

Prabhupāda: You can distribute it at cost price. That we can do.

Devotee (1): They should read it all over this country. They...

Prabhupāda: All over the world. It is called spiritual bankruptcy all over the world and leading men are thinking this catastrophe, and the only hope is Bhagavad-gītā. (indistinct) ...religion there is no science. There is no philosophy.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Scottish Church College in Calcutta...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was student there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda was in Scottish Church?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very popular among the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Yes. In Calcutta, there are two colleges, Presidency College and Scottish Churches College. All respectable families, son will go there, Scottish Churches College, Presidency College.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started almost at the same time?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is very old. Presidency College is government, and Scottish Churches College, by the Scottish Church missionaries. There was one priest, Duff, his name was Duff. He started in Srirampur, a small educational institute, Duff Institute. He was a Scotsman. Later on, all the Scottish missionaries combined together and they started this Scottish Churches College.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Presidency College and Scottish Church College.

Prabhupāda: Now they are ruined due to this Naxalite movement. Subash Bose was in our college.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish? Oh.

Prabhupāda: He was first in the Presidency College, but on account of his national spirit, he was rusticated from Presidency College. Then he came to our college.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Subash Bose Research Institute in Calcutta in...

Prabhupāda: Subash Bose?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. About the museum.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So among the college students, among the college students it's very common that they say: "I don't care what is said." These people, students.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to, I want to follow my own aim and desire, my own morality. They say like that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why don't you do that in case of your relationship to the state. Suppose the state says: "You must drive to the right." Why don't you drive on the left? Why do you obey the state laws? What does he say? You do whatever you like.

Brahmānanda: That means there's someone more powerful than they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thinking is a natural...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got mind. You have got mind. Therefore you must think. But that thinking... Why there is psychology science? What do you think? Why do you go to school, college to learn psychology? To learn how to think. How thinking process is going on. There is education required, how to think correctly.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The spiritual master is the most beneficent friend, he is giving you direction from the śāstra. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: "He is the real welfare worker for the human society." Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. You see śāstra is giving direction. So many lawyers are going to the school colleges to learn the government laws. Why they are taking so much trouble? Just to give people the direction that "You work under this direction, you will not be in difficulty." Similarly the spiritual master is the lawyer. He knows things as they are. He gives direction to the disciple so that he'll be happy. He will not be in trouble. This is guru-śiṣya-sampatti. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. By the mercy of guru everything is... Bhagavat-prasādaḥ, immediately, mercy of God. Oh, it is coming. No. Now, one should study the sprinkler. We'll give credit, "Oh, who has manufactured this sprinkler?" But there is no glorification for the original sprinkler, who takes all the water in the sky and sprinkles all over. There is no appreciation, rascal. You appreciate this thing.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Some of our books were selected textbooks in many colleges, universities. You have seen our books?

Buddhist Monk (1): I have seen some of them, not all of them. Because I meet these boys and girls, and... I seen that book about...

Prabhupāda: Our..., this book, Nectar of Devotion, that is a study book in the Temple University, Philadelphia. Similarly, our Kṛṣṇa Book, and what other books? They are...? Especially Kṛṣṇa Book and Nectar of Devotion. Bhagavad-gītā also, As It Is. (pause) We consider Lord Buddha also as incarnation of God.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. I was also a student of missionary college, Scottish Churches' College.

Lord Brockway: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We had very good professors. W. S. Urquhart, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was a Scotsman.

Lord Brockway: Yes, yes. Was that in Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in Calcutta. And Lord Rolandson, Zetland, Marquis of Zetland. He was governor of Bengal. So he's also a Scotsman.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So he came to our college in our, when we were young men, second year student. All our professors, mostly they were Scotsmen, and there was one English professor, Mister Warren. All other professors, they were Scotsmen, Mr. Keye, Mr. Cameron, Mr. Scrimgeour in this way.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So he wanted to stop these material activities. Jagan mithyā. Śaṅkarācārya never advocated for nationalism, for starting schools or college, hospital... Never. Why? Why should he do? If we say jagan mithyā, then why should we bother all these things?

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So who is following Śaṅkarācārya? And they say that "We are followers of Śaṅkarācārya." And they are engaged. Śaṅkarācārya follower means he must become first of all sannyāsī, then talk anything else. So who is taking, going to do that?

Reporter: And all those Śaṅkara Maṭha and Śaṅkarācārya's various places in India, don't live as jagat was mithyā. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, jagan mithyā... We don't say jagan mithyā.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Who gave you the talent, father?

Prabhupāda: No, I'm asking that what is the best part of education? So far my school, college education is concerned, that is not being used here.

Mother: Oh, but you're cultured. You in your old age are getting tremendous comfort from being able to read and understand what the world is doing, the goodness of your books, and you have..., you're able to understand the spiritual way of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That...

Mother: If you couldn't, if you hadn't been educated, father, well, how would you be able to have...?

Prabhupāda: No, education is required.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I think the college students university students, they're all hippies.

Mother: Yes, but we must develop the good ones that have talent. We must develop them. You have the power to give these boys...

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that if the chance of education is there... In India there is no such big, big universities, facilities, but in your western countries you have got nice universities, nice teaching system. Why the result is hippie?

Mother: Oh, but you... We're talking of you. You have got the power. But people follow you because they believe in you. So you have the power to educate them. And you're not hippies, are you?

Prabhupāda: My point is that this simple, this education for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, this sort of education will not satisfy.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, our children, we have got our own school. All these boys, they have got their children. They are gṛhasthas, householders. So we have got our nice school at Dallas, very big school.

Mother: But you have got a school, a Kṛṣṇa school?

Prabhupāda: Yes, oh, yes.

Mother: And now, how...? Do they go through college?

Prabhupāda: They are now little children. But we don't wish to send them to college. We have got sufficient books.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Unless we accept the real leader, a perfect personality who can give us perfect knowledge, there is no success. That is our philosophy.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet,

samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
(MU 1.2.12)
tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

We have to approach a person who has seen the truth in reality. Then our life is success. That is the Vedic injunction. And that is fact. Unless we are... Just like you are teacher, a professor. So therefore people are coming to you to learn. How can you say that he can follow his own philosophy? He's coming to school, college. He's taking lesson from the teacher. One has to follow. The selection may be right or wrong; that is another thing. But one has to select.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: That's all. So this Bhagavad-gītā, at least, should be introduced in all colleges. And Professor Dimock has recommended. Just...

Professor: Well, it is quite widely read, the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Professor: The Bhagavad-gītā is quite widely read.

Pradyumna: This is an introduction by Professor Dimock.

Professor: Yes, I've seen it. I read it. But it is quite widely read, you know. I mean the translations...

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that other Bhagavad-gītās, they have interpreted in their own (indistinct) not as it is. That is the difference. Just like you, you must have read Bhagavad-gītā by Radhakrishnan.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not English-speaking. They are Bengalis, the students. But they want to learn English. Therefore we are teaching English.

Indian Man: Is this a government-recognized college now?

Prabhupāda: No. Government recognition means we have to abide by the orders of government. We cannot teach Bhagavad-gītā only or Bhāgavata. But our aim is to teach... We have got another school in Dallas for small children. There we are Sanskrit, teaching Sanskrit and English. Yes.

Prof. Gombrich: Yes. But did you yourself study Sanskrit at Vṛndāvana or...?

Prabhupāda: No. We had studied Sanskrit in school, colleges. In our time, Sanskrit was compulsory. In our days. Nowadays, I don't think so...

Indian Man: I, I also had compulsory.

Prabhupāda: Sanskrit compulsory and additional there was Sanskrit. So I took both, compulsory and additional.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Calcutta University, Scottish Church's College.

Prof. Gombrich: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: You have been in Calcutta?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I have.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you know Scottish Church's College?

Prof. Gombrich: I'm afraid not. No.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Gombrich: No, I'm afraid I've only been to Presidency.

Prabhupāda: Presidency?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the Scottish Churches College is also on the same standard, Presidency College.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: At MIT. At other colleges I was present.

Prabhupāda: So that very time so I first of all asked the students, "Where is your technological department to find out the thing when a man is dead, and you replace it?" These were my subject matter. I talked. A man is working. (Aside:) come on. A man is working. All of a sudden he stops to work. So a motor car is working. All of a sudden it stops. So there are technologists who can repair the car and it will again start. That is technology. Now the man is working, stopped. So where is that technology to make it move again. That was... I spoke on this. So they very much appreciated. After my lecture they gathered round me.

Room Conversation -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you see, anywhere we can approach. I sold in Bombay all libraries, my previous Bhāgavatam.

Gargamuni: About Ten or twelve books, each bill is about five hundred rupees times twenty-five. That's a lot.

Prabhupāda: No, that is a respect, if the libraries and schools, colleges, they keep our books.

Gargamuni: Some of them are shocked. We went to the National Library in Calcutta. That's the largest library. They saw your books and they said, "Oh, he is doing this work?" They were so impressed. They had never seen Sanskrit or Bengali printed in foreign countries the way you have done in your books. They said, "This is fan..." There's no one else who is doing this in India, no one. Very impressed. And these men themselves are Sanskrit scholars. He immediately started to read. He said, "Oh, very nice." He said, "It is just right." So he was very enthusiastic. There are two boys. They spend the whole day just going to libraries.

Prabhupāda: That has been written by Professor Dayal, Dimock, that "Sanskrit scholars should get good opportunity, and nobody, I think, will deny Swamiji's scholarship." He has said that.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, lowest of the mankind and always engaged in sinful activities, such persons do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "No. There are so many educated MA, PhD's." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. "Apparently they are very educated, but their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This atheistic civilization is very dangerous. People are suffering for this reason. But they are not very serious. Therefore they have been addressed by Kṛṣṇa as mūḍhāḥ, rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. So we are trying a little bit to make these mūḍhas, mūḍha civilization, to come into light of spiritual life. That is our humble attempt. But it is already said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, they can take to it." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. But that does not mean we shall stop. Just like in our school, college days, Sir Asutosh Mukherjee started some higher study, post-graduate study classes in the university. The student was one or two, but still, the class was maintained at the cost of many thousands of rupees, not considering that there are only one student or two students. Similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must go on. It doesn't matter, the foolish people, they do not understand it or do not come to it. We have to make our propaganda. Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Jayādvaita: We went to a college and gave a class last week where the professor was saying that the Bhagavad-gītā is only two thousand years old, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will never accept it.

Yaśomatīnandana: One stupid guy was saying that there is some quotation in the Bhagavad-gītā from Book of John.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another rascaldom. Tava cārjuna.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what about the heart transplant? The spirit soul is within the heart, but when the... in the medical science nowadays, the old heart can be replaced by a new one. So what happens with the spirit soul with the old one?

Prabhupāda: But that does not mean that new ones will increase their duration of life. That is our challenge.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

Prabhupāda: Yes, you do not know how to make them happy. First of all learn how to make them happy. You cannot manufacture your program to make them happy. That everyone is doing. But the more they are acting, the world becoming in chaotic condition. You know what is the standard of happiness, how to make them happy; then you can work. If a medical man, he has never seen a medical college and if he wants to treat patient, what is this?

Hṛdayānanda: A criminal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Quack. He must know how to make them happy. That is first business.

Yaśomatīnandana: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: But the, but the sincere people don't believe it. When we go to the colleges, many students come to us and say, "These people are cheating us." They know it.

Karandhara: They don't even talk about God, transcendental meditation.

Satsvarūpa: Creative Intelligence.

Bali Mardana: Psychological.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not... I don't accept. We don't accept. Why do they say "all over the country"?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I mean in schools, in colleges.

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have departments.

Prabhupāda: They why they are complaining?

Hṛdayānanda: The intelligent students all criticize it. Many, many people criticize it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a big pamphlet.

Bali Mardana: They've made...

Prabhupāda: What is that meditation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they meditate for fifteen, twenty minutes... (indistinct) ...I think. You have to pay some money for that.

Hṛdayānanda: They say, they say it will increase your sense gratification, make more money.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bring any student of transcendental meditation and talk with our student. He'll be kicked out immediately. That is the test.

Hṛdayānanda: You're right, Prabhupāda. They're cheaters. I talked to one of their leaders at a college, and I, I defeated all their points. Then they simply became embarrassed and said, "Well, I don't want to talk any more." And they went away.

Prabhupāda: That's good. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I am talking on that matter. So if the American nation trusts in God... If not... They say, they have declared. Now, the difficulty is they do not know actually what is God, how to trust. That we are teaching. So the government must come forward to cooperate with us. This should be... There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Devotee (1): When we try to introduce it sometimes, they very often say that it is sectarian.

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?

Devotee (1): They say that it represents...

Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mad, madmen.

Karandhara: But his books are in colleges especially. Millions and millions of students accept his books as practically gospel.

Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter of the book?

Karandhara: Subject matter of his books, that life is ultimately absurd. There is no real meaning to it. We place our own meanings on it, but those are...

Prabhupāda: So you are trying... Why you are trying to explain it? Why you are trying to explain it?

Karandhara: Yes, actually he is trying to make reason out of the absurdity.

Prabhupāda: To prove absurd is his reason? That means absurd reason.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: If we were there and we could make one speech in front of that assembled Congress and Senate, the main government of the United States, what were the main points we would stress?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Jagajjīvana: Yeah, there is a chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, Second chapter is done. It hasn't been distributed yet until February. We are two blocks away from a college. It has 32,000 students, and we go there every day and chant and the Communists come and we start preaching to them.

Prabhupāda: Communists? Students are under Communistic? What the Communists preaches? There is no God?

Jagajjīvana: Yes. And that in this life you can become perfect. There can be a perfect man without Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, so who has become that perfect man? Amongst your Communists? The Stalin is considered the greatest criminal in the world, in the history, Stalin. So how he is perfect man? If he is the greatest criminal?

Jagajjīvana: (break) Mostly Spanish countries. (break) Another town in Puerto Rico we have a center there also.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Jagajjīvana: That is on the other side of the island, on Puerto Rico.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I brought a friend, Śrīla Prabhupāda, from Calcutta. He was my class friend in Calcutta. He is from St. Xavier's College. He graduated.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Bengali?

Sujit: Bengali. (Bengali conversation)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...Mahatma Gandhi Road.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Daniel, come here. Daniel Sardar.

Sujit: Sujit.

Prabhupāda: Sujit, oh. (Bengali conversation regarding his being a student of science, chemistry and plastics engineering, and Śrīla Prabhupāda tells him that he attended Scottish Churches' College) (break) ...astrology?

Sujit: What is my opinion?

Prabhupāda: No. I am asking scientist.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bali Mardana: When I was in Hawaii I gave a lecture at one Catholic college, and the priest in charge, he was asking me if in our philosophy we believe that animals have a soul. He's so foolish...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: The Christians are so foolish, even though they have big learned positions, they do not understand that the animal also has a soul.

Prabhupāda: You told? In that meeting?

Bali Mardana: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What did they say?

Bali Mardana: They could not deny. They could not say anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, what is the difference that you say the animals...? How do you say? What is the symptoms of possessing soul? The symptoms of possessing soul is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. The consciousness. The animals have no consciousness? How foolish they are!

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Also I was thinking to have a large scale propaganda in all the college newspapers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: Specifically. To attract...

Prabhupāda: The same, one advertisement. What is the...?

Karandhara: "Real leaders of human society."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That... You have seen that design I have given?

Karandhara: No, I haven't seen it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is not yet done?

Karandhara: No, it's being worked on.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can give him the rough idea. That will be very nice propaganda, to select real leaders of the society. The... We are misled by rascal leaders. That is the difficulty, all rascals. If the society is led by real, learned scholars, then it will be nice. Qualified leaders. That is wanted. Leader means better qualified man to lead others. That is leader. Leader does not mean he is himself a fool and leading other fools.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So your, your advancement means advancement in everything, but there is no food, there is no cloth. That's all. This is the advancement.

Dr. Patel: When there was no rain here last year... No? Year before last. (Hindi) The men in the medical college were talking, "Why the hell do you want rain?" I said "What nonsense, you are talking?" "We don't want. Our fields are in America. The rain is falling there all right." You know, jokingly. (laughs) There is no other... "Why do you want rain here?" Because people...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Rain, rain...

Dr. Patel: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they won't, won't perform yajña.

Dr. Patel: No. And yajña means there is service to the humanity...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not...

Dr. Patel: "That is giving service to Kṛṣṇa," you'll say. "But humanity is Kṛṣṇa," I say.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Dr. Patel: And then we quarrel! So we stop there. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...it will be constituted, that. Their business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very piti... Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varṇāśrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the śūdras.

Passerby: Jayo!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: No? They want. There is regular business. In India also. In the hotels there are regular business to pick up college girls and enjoyed by the guests. So many things are going on on this basis of sinful activity. All over the world. So they become polluted, all people..., population, then how they can expect good government? Some of them will take the charge of the government, and he's polluted. (pause) Indigestion. You know that? Indigestion.

Devotee: Ha.

Prabhupāda: You have not digested your food. (break) Any carpenter working in... (break) The government was pleased to reply that they're maintaining themselves by selling literature. Similarly, if it comes to the notice of the government that they're maintaining ourselves by production of food, they'll like very much. (break) In your temple.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...technological college. Similarly, this is another college, varṇāśrama college.

Satsvarūpa: For the public in general?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Anyone. Just like engineering college is open for anyone. He must be ready to take up the training. Similarly, this varṇāśrama college, he must be ready, the student, must be ready to take up the training.

Hṛdayānanda: Would it be for a particular age group?

Prabhupāda: Yes, any education, from childhood. Yes. Education means from childhood. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). The... How... We are getting so many sannyāsīs, they should teach. Teaching should be done by the sannyāsīs. Just like in missionary school, the fathers teaches.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gurukula is only for the small children. Preliminary, primary. And when the children are grown up, they should be sent to the varṇāśrama school or college for further developed training.

Hṛdayānanda: They should... Should they be taught also some... Should there also be teaching in some particular skill or varṇa? Such as say...

Prabhupāda: No.

Hṛdayānanda: Say, for example, someone was a, a kṣatriya by inclination, or a...?

Prabhupāda: No, inclination can be changed also. If one has got little ad... But we should take little advantage of the inclination. Not that... That is to be decided by the... Inclination or no inclination, we can... That will be done. That is not very difficult. This is a most important item. Because people have been spoiled all over the world by being misguided by the so-called leaders. Therefore varṇāśrama college is required. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: How much would be expected of the students as far as...? Would they live with us and follow the four principles? Like that? Or just come for classes or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Come to classes you won't get. Because nobody has got any taste for such thing. A boarding school or boarding college would...

Hṛdayānanda: Boarding school.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: And there should... Should there be any material subject matters taught like in gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like material subject matter, kṣatriya, or the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, as they are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, what are the symptoms of brāhmaṇa, what is the symptoms of kṣatriya. The kṣatriyas should be taught how to fight also. There will be military training. There will be training how to kill.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Satsvarūpa: What would his business be at that varṇāśrama college?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also training, to become obedient. Because people are not obedient. What are these hippies? They are not obedient. So obedience also require training. If you have no intelligence, if you cannot do anything independently, just be obedient to the other, higher three classes. That is śūdra. He must agree to abide by the orders of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, vaiśya. That's all. So that nobody will be unemployed. Everyone should be trained up to sleep six to eight hours and attend meeting, chant, and ārati. And balance—he must work hard. Not that sleeping unlimitedly. There is no limit.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, in this varṇāśrama college, is it true that there will be no need, for example, for teaching material history and mathematics and...?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. History, we simply read Mahābhārata, history of the great men, Pāṇḍavas, how they were fighting for the good cause, how they were reigning. That history. Not this rascal history. If you study that history millions of years, what is that history and what you'll learn from that history? You learn history of the really great men, how they worked, how they ruled. That is a... You study history of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So in our varṇāśrama college the students that come to our college, they follow the four principles... They follow...

Prabhupāda: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the śūdras or the kṣatriyas... Just like kṣatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.

Hṛdayānanda: What he kills.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Satsvarūpa: So they don't attend varṇāśrama college.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Varṇāśrama college especially meant for the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Those who are not fit for education, they are śūdras. That's all. Or those who are reluctant to take education-śūdra means. That's all. They should assist the higher class.

Hṛdayānanda: Would the brāhmaṇas learn Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Not necessarily.

Hṛdayānanda: Not necessarily. Just more philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Just like I am translating all the books, similarly, any book of knowledge can be translated into different languages. Not that one has to learn Sanskrit. Why?

Hṛdayānanda: Not necessary. So in this varṇāśrama college there would be two divisions, varṇa and āśr... Learning a materia...

Prabhupāda: First of all varṇa. And āśrama, then, when the varṇa is perfectly in order, then āśrama. Āśrama is specially meant for spiritual advancement, and varṇa is general division. It must be there in the human society, or they're on the animals. If varṇa is not there, then this is a society of animal. And when the varṇa is working perfectly, then we give them āśrama. Varṇāśrama. That is later on.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But I must know everything because I am a teacher.

Hṛdayānanda: So, for example, if I become a teacher at varṇāśrama, say, the first teacher at the varṇāśrama college, then I have to also become expert at how to fight, how to...

Prabhupāda: Not all of you, but some of you must be, must learn the art of fighting also. But in a practical you are not going to fight. If required, you can fight. I say that we are above all these varṇāśrama, but we must train others or ourself also for material activities, everything, under these divisions.

Viṣṇujana: For example, in New Vrindaban we have brāhmaṇas that are very expert at tilling the soil and taking care of cows.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viṣṇujana: And they could travel around and teach others how to do that as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right. He is brāhmaṇa, but he's teaching how to take care of the cows and ploughing.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So just to clarify, Prabhupāda, I want to make sure I have it very clear, that if someone comes to our varṇāśrama college, even though this may be preliminary help, in general—you've made some exceptions—but in general, when they come to our college, they have to follow the four regulative principles, also learn something about Bhagavad-gītā and then, side by side, they learn a...

Prabhupāda: Four regulative principles compulsory.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, generally in colleges in the West, they charge some fee for going to the college. What is our position?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't charge any fee. There is no question of money. Because the brāhmaṇas, they'll teach free. They require money because they have to give fat salary to these rascals. But we haven't got to. And even we have to feed them, we produce our own grain. So where is the question of taking money? So therefore it is required, somebody must produce food. Then there is no necessity of money.

Hṛdayānanda: The vaiśya students will produce the food.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Should our children who are at gurukula, when they grow up, should they go to that varṇāśrama college, or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They should go.

Hṛdayānanda: We'll start it right away.

Prabhupāda: Varṇāśrama college means for grown-up students. College means for grown-up students.

Hṛdayānanda: Is there a minimum age for beginning such a college?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten to twelve years.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: They can start at ten to twelve?

Prabhupāda: Yes. From five to ten years, gurukula. And after ten years, they should go to the varṇāśrama college.

Viṣṇujana: New Vrindaban would be an ideal place in America for such a school.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Organize that.

Viṣṇujana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall go.

Viṣṇujana: This Mahārāja is also going to New Vrindaban.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So we should encourage people, young people, young students to come to our college.

Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.

Hṛdayānanda: Room and board and training.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This poverty. Why there is poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life. So-called education. Sitting idle in the table and chair, and talking all gossips, nonsense, and sleeping. They have been trained up in this way, śūdra.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Raghu-vaṁśa and Kumāra-sambhava. We studied some portion.

Dr. Patel: I studied in my college days... (break)

Prabhupāda: Motikama (?) is grammar. Poetry for grammar.

Dr. Patel: Meghadūta I studied. (Sanskrit) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...for materialistic persons.

Dr. Patel: No, but they're also... In several places he had entered into high philosophy. It's not only the... Kavidhara (?)... There can never be a kavi without philosophy in him.

Prabhupāda: Philosophy. Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...fire it, and keep it. It is all right. (break) ...no service. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Dr. Patel: I have, you see, I have seen in England in my training days in the College of Tropical Medicine and our hospital... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...for all disease. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra... nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt.

Dr. Patel: I was told you are going away on sixth?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: You are going... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...rent tax, about... Suppose the father is tenant.

Dr. Patel: Rent tax (indistinct). Rent tax.

Prabhupāda: If the father is tenant.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The boys and the girls in the colleges.

Prabhupāda: See. They're encouraging, encouraging these things. So why they will like? Now,... Therefore our position is that they want to drive us. The whole plan is they do not want this Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement to stay here.

Dr. Patel: How can they drive you? I don't agree with you on that...

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are trying their best. They wanted to break the temple and drive away.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And we, because we are dull students... (Gujarati) (break)

Prabhupāda: Why? Why do they go to the college and university? They could do it independently. (break) Therefore tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Inquisitive, jijñāsu, they should go to the proper person who knows it.

Dr. Patel: He is, that... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...eighth time. No? Thirteenth time?

Dr. Patel: Thirteenth time. Now you must time, describe the fourteenth time because thirteen is a bad number. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got the translation. All my secretaries, they have got. (break) (kīrtana, Acyutānanda singing) (end)

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: What about programs at schools and colleges?

Prabhupāda: Because they are innocent. The children, they are innocent. So if possible, give them some enlightenment, kṛpā, to become merciful upon them. So far children are concerned, they hear, they try to learn. Just like in Dallas, whatever we say, they accept. They do not protest. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?

Girirāja: "Vasudeva thought of his wife as follows: 'For the present let me save the life of Devakī and later on, if there are children, I shall see how to save them.' He further thought..."

Prabhupāda: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that...

Girirāja: " 'If in the future I get a child who can kill Kaṁsa, just as Kaṁsa is thinking, then both Devakī and the child will be saved, because the law of providence is inconceivable. But now someway or other let me save the life of Devakī.' " (break)

Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: This is also a siddhi, that they can invent a plane...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Makhanlal: What's the explanation then? They are slaughtering more cows in the United States, but there is still more fortunate situation there materially.

Prabhupāda: No, that is now dwindling. The hippies are coming out. So one day it will be finished. One day it will be finished. That... It has already begun. The future hope is now becoming hippies. So who will manage this? It is already there is a problem how to maintain the industry, how to... This has become a problem. So naturally, when the, there will be all hippies, not to work, then everything collapses. The so-called prosperity will be finished. (break) Nobody is working sincerely. Here also in India, all government servants, they do not work. The manager of the government coal company said that "The workers in the mine, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase the price." So now, everything dependent on one another, so if one side there is noncooperation, the whole thing will collapse. (break) ...college they don't work. One thing is that draft board chasing all young men. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. She was raped.

Pañcadraviḍa: How do you teach a varṇāśrama college? In varṇāśrama college if somebody comes in... They say, "I want to be kṣatriya" or "I want to be vaiśya." Is it like that?

Prabhupāda: No, that will be tested by the teachers, what for he is fit. He will be test by the guru.

Pañcadraviḍa: Who will teach him to be a kṣatriya or who will teach him to be a vaiśya?

Prabhupāda: A kṣatriya, a brāhmaṇa. Just like if you want to learn music, you have to go to a musician.

Pañcadraviḍa: So where will we get kṣatriyas and...?

Prabhupāda: That is in the śāstra. Anyone can learn it. Just like if you want to be doctor, so you must have this qualification. Similarly, these things are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣatriya means if there is fight, he must go forward first of all, risking his life. That is kṣatriya.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: (break) ...them into all the schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. School, college, library, enlightened gentlemen, businessmen, they have all accepted.

Pañcadraviḍa: This is how it would work. This is Akṣayānanda's work. He has been doing this for some months here now. He goes every day to all the different colleges and schools, and he speaks, and he shows them your books for their college libraries. He's been having a lot of programs like this. They always take the Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa Books and Nectar of Devotion, like this.

Prabhupāda: Best thing is that "Why your president, he did not write a single Hindi book? He has got so many. He is a famous philosopher. Indian religion, Indian philosophy, and Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He has written so many books but not a single in Hindi."

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...arrange meetings in the school, colleges, societies, big, big halls. Because they may not come. They are not attracted to the temple meetings. They think, "This temple is temple, some priestly class." They want philosophy, logic, science. So they have to be convinced. Not sentiments. So those who are advanced, they are not in favor of religious sentiments, because they have got experience, "Now, some sentiments..." But they do not understand what is this sentiment. Therefore they have to be understood through logic, philosophy, science.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: I was also student of philosophy in 1916 to 20 under professor Dr. W.S. Urquhart in Calcutta, Scottish Churches' College. He was my professor. Later on, he became vice chancellor, very big philosopher. We read Dr. Stephens Metaphysics. What is your special subject for study?

Richard Webster: Well, it's rather difficult to say. I suppose medieval philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Medieval.

Richard Webster: From a modern point of view.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Richard Webster: From a modern point of view.

Prabhupāda: Modern.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya." Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This you will get even if you become cat and dog. But in the cat and dogs, I will not get this opportunity, how to get out of this material existence. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. These are the instructions of Prahlāda. These rascals have no education to understand. Therefore we must give this education. We must induce them to read these books in the school, colleges. That is propaganda.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is automatically taught in bhakti-yoga. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. It is said, "If you can keep your master pleased, then God will be pleased." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. And if you make your master displeased, then you are nowhere. These are the teachings of bhakti-yoga. But if the master is such a rascal that if he asks the disciple that "You please me with sex life," then what kind of master he is? Sex life is so strong. In the school, colleges, the teachers having sex life with the students. And yogic process, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, first is saṁyama. Yama, niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, samādhi, like that. This is against this principle of yama, niyama.

M. Roost: Yes, and first is...

Prabhupāda: I know several yogis, so-called yogis in New York. They are having sex life with the female disciples. I know. I do not wish to name them, but I know them personally. So many. They are taking fees and having sex with the disciple and are yogis. Just see. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think... When I was in college I studied chemistry, and I think many of the scientists that I also met, they felt very alienated from their asso..., from their relationship with nature or with God because of their empirical approach to everything, of setting themselves apart from everything. Therefore they felt detached from the complete whole, almost as if an island floating away somewhere with no relationship.

Prabhupāda: They... You became detached from all material activities? No?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Well, just the observer.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From śāstra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Last year, you were received by the Mayor at Hotel De Ville.

Prabhupāda: No, but in America we have reception from highly scholarly people, university heads, like that. Our books are being read in universities, colleges, and they're accepted in big, big libraries. Not only accepted what is published, but they have forward order for all the publications that will come. Yes? Hmmm. (someone comes in with a plate of prasādam)

Pṛthu-putra: (explains about prasādam)

Prabhupāda: They have learned this preparation, these girls. We have taught them. We are strictly vegetarian. From grains, from milk and sugar, and just two three, things, we require, and we can prepare thousands of preparations out of that.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And that is freedom. So Rāya Rāmānanda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)

Bhārgava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rūpānuga Mahārāja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.

Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Devotee: I have seen in all the big colleges and universities in England that I have been to, that this, amongst the students, the boys and girls, it is becoming so free. It is just like a hippy commune, the universities and colleges.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are indebted in so many ways. Therefore human being should be responsible. But the modern civilization is teaching to become irresponsible.

Haṁsadūta: (break) ...there, on the sun.

Prabhupāda: So suppose if your heat increases, what happens to you?

Haṁsadūta: I get sick.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahāt. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. Indriyāṇi means senses. Parā, supreme. This is supreme.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: Contaminated?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to.... By nature's law. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, (indistinct). There are three qualities—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa and mixed up. At first mixing it becomes nine and again mixing up it becomes 81. Each quality there are thousands and thousands of varieties and that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of life. So, it is by the God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and award the quality. It is not man-made law. That there may some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, whether small pox or whatever or (indistinct), you must develop. Therefore desireless. Desireless means material desires. Material desires begins with this designation. Just like the child, he has got a childish body and he plays like a child. The same child when he'll get a youthful body (indistinct). The soul is the same but on account of the type of the body, he is acting. This is material. Small child in the childhood talks like nonsense, people enjoy it. But the same child when he is grown up, if he talks like a nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed, the circumstances have changed. This is (indistinct) that we have changed this body and on account of the bodily situation we are acting different. That they do not understand. There is not school or college, they do not know about the soul and soul changing different positions, different bodies. In this way he remains materially entangled and the real relief is to get out of this bodily consciousness and advance in spiritual life.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: All the night or do you at the day sometimes?

Prabhupāda: No. At night I get up at one, at half past one, sometimes half past twelve. But I take a little rest, one or two hour in the daytime. So two hours at night, two hours at day, or three hours at night, two hours in day. In this way, altogether five hours, not more than that. Our predecessor gurus, Gosvāmīs, they were taking rest not more than two hours or 2-1/2 hours. So we should come to that standard, yes. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About them this description is: they reduced their sleeping, nidra. Nidra means sleeping. And āhāra. Āhāra means eating and collection. Collection is also āhāra. Yes. So they were mendicant. They had no collection. And they had no preaching mission. They were simply writing books. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, very expert to study different scriptures just to get the essence of scripture and give to the people. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. So their life was engaged for the benefit of the whole human society. What these people are talking philanthropy and humanitarian? They dedicated their life for... Just like we are doing. It is not for any sect or any person. For the whole human society. So that should be the mission. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore their literature is honored all over the world, all over the universe. Just like our books. We are selling all over the world, all universities, all school, all colleges, all gentlemen. It is not sectarian.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Harrap: Do you have any formal training arrangements that belong your own particular religion? Do you run colleges and...

Madhudviṣa: No, not per se. We have our training centers where the students are trained in reading Sanskrit and studying the... Most of our education is centered around the ancient scriptures from the East. This is what our spiritual master dedicates his life to, translating these Sanskrit books. He's translated about twenty of them already. And so our centers are working in that fashion. We have a school for children where they are trained up from the time they're five years old. This is in America.

Dr. Harrap: Can you give us an indication where the centers are, where some of them are?

Madhudviṣa: The centers are all over the world. We have centers in America and centers...

Prabhupāda: We have got forty centers in America.

Dr. Harrap: Forty.

Prabhupāda: Forty, four zero, yes.

Dr. Harrap: Your knowledge of Sanskrit, this is one of your basic interests.

Prabhupāda: No, not Sanskrit, but knowledge we have received by disciplic succession from my Guru Mahārāja, from my spiritual master. Sanskrit is the language but mostly we derive knowledge from Vedic revealed scriptures. And this is also one of them, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is the ripened fruit of Vedic knowledge.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (break) Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhāgavata is being accepted everywhere. Big, big libraries, universities. University, Bombay University. As far as possible (indistinct) all colleges. (break) There is no (indistinct) word meaning, word-to-word meaning (indistinct). When there is word... (break) You should be clear of all questions possible. Then you will be able to push very forcibly. You must be prepared to answer all the questions.

Brahmānanda: Prabhupāda, one question: You say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will solve all problems. But factually, there are so many problems in the world that aren't being solved.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: So many problems in the world, and many say that they can solve all the problems. So what is the proof?

Prabhupāda: They could not. The problems are there.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: These racks we purchased for storing the books that will be sent to the libraries and colleges. When Satsvarūpa Swami gets the orders, they are reserved over here, five hundred copies of each book, and then, when we run out, another five hundred copies goes in the rack. So that way, we always keep books. Even if we sell out, we always have books reserved for the libraries. Śruta-śravā manages our warehouse. (engine started)

Hṛdayānanda: Make it go up.

Prabhupāda: I first saw this machine in the Commonwealth Pier, Boston. (machine moving around, crashing sound)

Jayatīrtha: What are you doing, Śruta-śravā?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes because of that roof you can't see what you're doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: These are offices. The first office is where Kirtirāja works. He is managing all the distribution for the libraries and colleges. Satsvarūpa's party sends in the orders, and they process them from here. They handle all the business from this part of the warehouse.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Hṛdayānanda: That's Māyāpur, Lord Caitanya's birthplace.

Gurudāsa: Yogapīṭha.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's family. "Book Digest." They publish our books?

Kirtirāja: We are trying to arrange that now.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: ...the ātman of the world, let's say, absolute...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The ātmā and Paramātmā, Paramātmā. As I was speaking, nityo nityānām. We are all nityas, eternal, but there is one chief nitya. Just like leader. Everywhere we go, we have got a leader. Now, this, your Mexico state, there is a president. You cannot avoid it. In your college there is principal. There must be a leader. Similarly, the whole thing taken together, there must be one leader. You have to speak from experience that in your physical department or in your religious department there is a chief, leader, professor. Or you may be. But that is the way. Therefore Vedic information is that we are eternal, but there is another eternal who is chief eternal. That is God. He is eternal; we are also eternal. Then what is difference? The difference is that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "That one eternal, chief eternal, He is maintaining all the subordinate eternals." So both eternals are eternal and... The purpose is pleasure. Just like a small example, a family man. The father is the chief man in the family. The mother is there, the children are there, all together. But the father is the chief man in the family. He is maintaining the family, and there is ānanda, pleasure. Similarly, ānanda is the aim of both, all the eternals, the chief eternal or the subordinate eternal. But the supplier is the chief eternal. So when we come together, the chief eternal and the subordinate eternals, and enjoy together, that is the purpose of life.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So brāhmaṇa means one who knows Brahmān, the soul. This qualification required. Just like to become a lawyer, one must be graduate. Similarly, one must have first of all be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then he can understand what is God, what is soul. So there is no such training college. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, what is soul. That is required. Then your problems will be solved. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1975, Caracas:

Vīrabāhu: The modern scientists, they even admit that the body, a human body, is the most perfect machine. They admit this in college. But the same teacher, I heard him saying this, though he says this, he says, "There is no God. This is an invention of the necessity of man."

Prabhupāda: Then why do you die? Why do you die?

Hṛdayānanda: If it's a perfect machine?

Vīrabāhu: No, he says is the most perfect. No one can make something better.

Prabhupāda: Where is perfection? Why do you die? You don't like to die. Where is perfection? Nobody wants to die, but it is sure that he will die. Where is perfection?

Vīrabāhu: He says because of the fear of dying, one invents God.

Prabhupāda: Stop it, this. Then we shall not think of God. You are scientist, rascal. You stop it. Then we shall not think of God. Why you ask stop thinking of God before making arrangement that we shall not die? First of all make this arrangement. The cause of fear, death... "Death is the cause of fear; therefore we are thinking of God." So you stop this cause. We shall not think of God.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that college you are employed?

Professor Fenton: Emory University. Its about three miles from here.

Prabhupāda: So, what definition you give to religion?

Professor Fenton: It has to do with saving, something that binds societies together, it has to do with the supernatural of (indistinct) God. And hm... Sometimes...

Prabhupāda: That there is relationship with God. Is it not? Religion has got relationship with God.

Professor Fenton: Yes, but sometimes it's simply something that holds a society together. Both are religion. Sometimes religion is shameful, sometimes its man's highest glory.

Prabhupāda: Hm... (aside) You come here, I could not follow him.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That was second stage. The first stage I used to publish and distribute as gṛhastha, I did not mind whether one page or not. I was distributing. So spending about four hundred, five hundred rupees, I did not care if one page or not, but I'll distribute. Then, when I retired, left home, I was publishing and distributing myself to get subscription. The subscription was very cheap, two rupees, four annas, I think, for the year. Two copies per month. Just like you published The Harmonist? Like that. Then I published Bhāgavatam. So I was going to libraries, school, colleges, and everyone was purchasing. My Bhāgavata was being purchased by your Congress Library. In Delhi they have got office. So there was standing order, eighteen copies of my book as soon as they are published. The head librarian in India, New Delhi, he gave me standing order. Dallas is very cold? No. Like this.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: He has got his foreword in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Devotee (1): Now each one, the foreword is there, in every volume. So we always show them that and they're very impressed, especially hippies and students, college students.

Devotee (5): Just like Kṛṣṇa says. What the big men do, the common men follow.

Prabhupāda: He gave me first money for publishing Kṛṣṇa book, $19,000. He is a good boy. He is a good boy, and he has got good regard for me.

Devotee (3): He just recently went on a concert tour around the country, and he was having the young people chant Kṛṣṇa's names in the concert. And because of the concert tour, many, many, many books were distributed, unlimited.

Prabhupāda: Oh, his song, "Kṛṣṇa..." I have forgotten that.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and awards the body accordingly. It is not man-made law, that there may be some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, either smallpox or cholera or this or that, you must develop that disease. Therefore we should be desireless. Desireless means material desire. That material desire begins with the designation. That... The child, he has got a childish body, and he plays like a child. The same child, when he will get a youthful body, he will do like that. The soul is the same. But on account of different type of body he is acting differently. That is practical. A small child, in the childhood he will talk like nonsense. People will enjoy it. But the same child, when he is grown up and he talks like nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed. The circumstance has changed. This is the real education, that we are changing body, and according to our bodily situation we are acting differently. That they do not understand. There is no school, college or education about the soul and the soul's changing different position of different body, and in this way he remains materially entangled.
Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: All men can stand or not stand—that is a different question. The fact is this. Suppose if I say, "Unless you become a graduate, you cannot enter law college." Now this question does not arise that whether everyone will be graduate. But this is the condition. This is the condition. Anyone who fulfills this condition, he can be admitted.

Guest: Then what is the condition prescribed for standing on the spiritual platform?

Prabhupāda: This is the spiritual platform,

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

This is spiritual. Unless you come to this platform, there is no question of samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu or samyavāda. Generally, they do not know it. They are talking of samyavāda. They do not know what is the platform of samyavāda. That is also further explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Bhāgavata, śāstra, all Vedic literatures, they are perfect. So people do not know what is the aim of life. Therefore they have got different views. Actually they are missing what is the aim of life. There is a English proverb, "A man without aim and a ship without rudder," or something like that. So similarly, ask anybody what is the aim of life. He doesn't know, no clear idea.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But only for furniture and apartment, if you forget yourself and act in such a way, then next life you become a dog and lie on the street, then what is the use of your furniture? You are getting next life. First of all, you understand that, that "This is not the end of my life. I am eternal. I am changing my body." So it is described as dress. Now you may be dressed like a royal king. And next dress may be different. "May be" means it must be. And for the examples of the dresses—so many living entities. So you must be cautious that "What kind of dress I am going to have next?" (break) Where is that science? Where is that school, college? If you remain only confident that "I'll go on with this dress perpetually," that is not the fact. You'll have to change your dress. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But we have no knowledge that "What kind of dress I am going to have?" It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But according to academic order, logic is the preliminary study of philosophy. Our, our professor, Dr. Watt (?), he defined like that. In 1917...-(Aside:) Come on.-There was the governor in Bengal, Lord Ronaldsey (?), Marquis of Zetland. He was a Scottish man. And our college was Scottish Churches College-(aside:) Get the light. So... don't lean. You'll feel sleep. Just like sit my Guru Mahārāja. Show the picture. Be... Become my Guru Mahārāja. Yes. That sitting is the yogāsana. I am gone to hell. (laughter) You are young men. You learn from my Guru Mahārāja.

Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.

Prabhupāda: No. You'll never see any picture, he was leaning. So that Lord Ronaldsey (?) was very good scholar. So we were... When he was invited, he was taken to all the classes. So I was, at that time, in the second year. So I took permission to sit down in the first benches. The... Our college was very big. So in each class there were 150 students.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: Kill him again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: "Yes, homosex is all right." Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You'll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kālī that "We are eating Mother Kali's prasāda." That's it. This is going on.

Brahmānanda: Kali eats meat.

Prabhupāda: Kali does not eat meat, but it is the śāstra's injunction that those who are unable to give up meat-eating, they may sacrifice one goat, not cow, one small animal before the goddess Kali, on amāvāsya (new moon) day, night, not day, and they can eat it.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here, then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as students, then the whole situation will be solved.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then close all these universities, school, colleges. Close.

Madhudviṣa: Well, that's also for enjoyment at present time because we can get together and have social life.

Prabhupāda: No, it is for future, not for present. The child does not want to go to school, but the father forces him to go for future.

Jayādvaita: That's tangible, though.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayādvaita: That's tangible. You can see. If somebody gets a university education, he gets a job, this, that, but in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can't see how he's going back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, why you are keeping money in the bank, do good bank balance?

Madhudviṣa: Because it's giving interest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means for future.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayapatāka: Everyone is sending their sons and daughters to the university and colleges, and they are getting degree, but they are not getting any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a śūdra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the śūdra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya. Śūdras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many śūdras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: But also not come in the way of a Muslim.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's... You remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian. You are acting like a śūdra, and you are advertising yourself as a brāhmaṇa. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. something," that is punishable. But you are quack. That's all right. You can take a certificate that you have got some experience. The registered medical practitioner, I think that is... But what is this, that you are proclaiming yourself as a... (chuckles) So character means a class of men there must be, maybe very few, but they are actually men of character. Just like I am teaching them no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is basic principle. Otherwise, where is his character? You are doing all nonsense, and still, you are proclaiming yourself as brāhmaṇa. This should be stopped. And a training college should be there how to make a real brāhmaṇa. I have given the example...

Governor: Vānaprastha college.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vānaprastha college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men... Just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture. So even though at the present moment people are not inclined to become a brāhmaṇa, I tried it. I tried it before starting this movement. I tried to some friends that "You have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall train him how to become a perfect brāhmaṇa." Nobody agreed. They said, "Swamiji, (Hindi)," But if there is not a ideal class of brāhmaṇa, then how you can say that you become moralist? If there is no example of moralist, how you can ask people, "Become moralist"?

Governor: The thing is a very intensive and completely dedicated course on making an individual a brāhmaṇa. (indistinct)... Then the second thing is not that intensively, but in a village (indistinct) all people.

Prabhupāda: All people.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So therefore this varṇāśrama college is very essential.

Governor: Both intensive and extensive training.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Proper training. It may be extensive and intensive... Doesn't matter.

Governor: You said 5 percent and 95 percent.

Prabhupāda: Ninety-five percent may remain non-brāhmaṇa. But this 5 percent, if they are strongly brahminical, then others will follow. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ-sahasraśaḥ. You have got millions of stars. Nobody cares for them. But people are looking after "When the moon will rise? When the moon will rise?" That one moon is sufficient than millions of stars. So this is the suggestion.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So immediately Gautama Muni accepted him as brāhmaṇa: "You are telling the truth." Satya śamaḥ damaḥ. Because it is first qualification. So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard śāstra and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the swamis went there. They lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them? That "Our Hindu religion is very great, very nice, and whatever you like, you can do. It doesn't matter." Then where is the training? Now little effect is there because I am training them. As soon as one comes to me for becoming disciple, I place before him that "You have to give up all these habits." When he agrees, then I accept him. And therefore I have got some selected, trained-up men. So there must be this training college, institution, and proper training according to the śāstra. Then there is possibility of changing the whole situation.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: Any elaboration of what you refer to as vānaprastha college?

Prabhupāda: No, varṇāśrama. Vānaprastha, just like we have got this building. Now, if somebody retires and engages himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are welcome. They can take prasādam and stay here. It is not possible at the present moment that gentleman will live in the forest. That is not possible. Then here is a place, Vṛndāvana, holy place. We have constructed this building, and people should take vānaprastha, or retirement, and may come here and live peacefully and cultivate spiritual knowledge.

Brahmānanda: I think the governor was asking about the varṇāśrama college.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.

Governor: No, we take this electrician or engineer or an...

Prabhupāda: No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are... They have enough.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Perfect knowledge you can immediately, provided you take knowledge from the perfect. If you receive knowledge from a bogus person, then how you can have perfect knowledge? Knowledge has to be received from a person. Why shall I go to a school, college, teachers, guru? To receive knowledge. So if your teacher, guru or parent, those who are your superior, if they are perfect, then you get perfect knowledge. But if your teacher is a bogus, then you get bogus knowledge.

Carol: And this is immediate, is it?

Amogha: She says is this immediate, the reception of perfect knowledge?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are giving knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. This is perfect knowledge. You take it; you become perfect.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The students, they are going to school, college, and they are talking of sex. Where is tapasya? How it is possible? So therefore bhakti-yoga is the only way of spiritual improvement in this age—all age, especially in this age. No other method will help you-yoga, karma, jñāna, nothing. Bhakti-yoga is always strong, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. Therefore it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva, especially. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the simplest. But people do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They are so much in ignorance. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is ultimate goal. Simply like cats and dogs. The dog jumps over with four legs, and if a man can jump over with four wheels, then that is advance. Just see. They think, "Now we are advanced. We have got four-wheel car to jump over. And the dog is jumping with legs. Therefore this is advanced." They do not know this is also the same dog's business. They do not know it. (break) ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: And by simply one daṇḍa, one is sannyāsī. This is all over the world. Mussulman, having a long beard, he is Mussulman. Mussuleḥ iman.(?) Musseleḥ means complete, and iman means honest. That is the meaning of Mussulman. Completely honest, completely devoted. Mussuleḥ iman. (long pause) We are not saying just "No sex." We don't say that. We simply say, "No illicit sex," and they do not like it. We don't say "No sex," but simply by saying, "No illicit sex," they don't like. Why? There is a Bengali song, "cakṣe yadi lage bhala kena dadimali" (?) "If I want to see something beautiful, why shall I not see?" That is pravṛtti. "I want to do it. I like to do it. Why should you say, 'No'?" This is the position. "I like to do it. I must do it." This is called pravṛtti (long pause) "I like to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in this way. Why should you say no?" This is going on. (break) The school students, college students, "I like to copy. Why shall I repress(?) ?" This is education. Here also they copy?

Amogha: You mean cheating?

Prabhupāda: No, no, copying in examination?

Amogha: Oh, yes. Well, what they do is someone sneaks the exam answers out before, and they sell the answers to the questions before the test.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Here it is more advanced.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They come for pilgrimage?

Prabhupāda: No, no. They will be sent to your house. Pay for it. Hotel. In the Kali-yuga the sex impulse is so strong, but it is utilized in so many ways. The yogis, swamis, school, college, philosophy—at the end sex, that's all. That example, dog's tail. Whatever you do, greasing, the tail will be like this. (break) I think it is sooner. It takes time less than for going there.

Devotee (1): Oh, I came the short way.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he came by the short way.

Devotee (1):. Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) This man is unemployed... (end)

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is nonsense. Nothing happens accidentally. That is nonsense. There must be some arrangement. What is happening accidentally? Why you are taking care of these trees? So many things. Nothing is done accidentally. You do not see the cause. If accidentally one can become rich, why you are struggling so hard to become rich? Why their motorcars are flying whole day and night, here and there? Why you are trying? Let accidentally money come, and sit down. Why do they not do that? "If accident is there, let accident come and I will become rich man." Why they try? Why they go to the college? Let accidentally you become M.A., Ph D. This is all rascaldom, simply poor thought. Poor thought. If things happen accidentally, why you are trying? What is the answer?

Amogha: Well, we try, but—we have to try—but we can't tell what's going to happen. So it's happening accidentally when we try. Just like in school we have to try, but maybe we will become promoted.

Prabhupāda: No, if you believe in accident, then you should not endeavor for anything. Nothing happens accidentally.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta. I was educated in a college. My professors were all Europeans.

Dr Copeland: Which college?

Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches' College. You know that? In our time Dr. Watt, he was principal. And I was student of philosophy of Dr. W. S. Urquhart. He was my professor. And our English professor was Mr. Cameron,(?) Mr. Scrimgeour, Mr. Warren. And I was student of economics also. One Mr. Keith, he was also... All our professors were Scotsmen, Englishmen.

Dr. Copeland: And after you left the college, were you employed?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was appointed manager of a very big laboratory, Dr. Bose's laboratory.

Dr. Copeland: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: You know?

Dr. Copeland: I've heard of it. From another worker. While you were in the college or afterwards, did you participate in any political movements?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I joined this Gandhi's.

Dr. Copeland: You did? Had you met Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: I met several times, but not as personal interview. But I liked his movement, national movement.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: This is the preliminary outline for the college course that Dr. Judah is going to be helping us with in Berkeley. This describes the basic purposes of the college and describes some of the courses that we'll be offering.

Prabhupāda: Our books?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, there's a course in each book.

Bahulāśva: This is what Dr. Judah belongs to, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bahulāśva: This is a union of various theological schools. So now in Berkeley we have this very nice building, and we can become a member of this Graduate Theological Union. I have been working with Dr. Judah for about one year, and we've talked about this before. And he said that he will sponsor us.

Prabhupāda: So I shall take it?

Bahulāśva: Yes, he said that he will sponsor us in this union, and then our devotees can study just your books. Maybe they must take an English course, and that would be all we couldn't offer. Then everything else, they can study from your books.

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if they read my books, they will be benefited. There is no doubt about it.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are some questions about exactly how to do this college. We will be licensed by the state of California, that is no problem. We can get a license immediately.

Prabhupāda: Get it.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Get it, and the, what is called, syllabus, that we shall give. We have got so many books. We shall select this book for graduate, this book for post-graduate, and these books for Ph.D.'s.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Even you have different levels. Like they can undergraduately study Bhagavad-gītā, but in graduate they can study it more intensely, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in general course they select some passages from some books. So we can do that.

Bahulāśva: Yes. We have laid out all your books in this style, just like at a college catalogue. This is all your literatures and then different courses are given there, what subject matter will be covered.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall make a program, and it may be approved by the professors, and then we will let them study.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Now we can change that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with this college. We can get our men in all religious departments.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our duty, to give them knowledge. The knowledge is there. The candidates are there. Only the guardians should be sane, that "Save the children." Otherwise they will produce only hippies. That's all. (break) So long you will work on the mental plane, then the tendency will be that "Let me refute you, and I become prominent." And he will think that "Let me refute him. I become." This business will go on. But there will be no end of philosophy. So what is the use of such philosophy, simply continually go on mentally speculating, no conclusion? Philosophy means, "Here is the conclusion."

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Also, should this college have men and woman or just men?

Prabhupāda: No, why? Everyone. We have no such discrimination. But not cats and dogs. (laughter) Human being. Never mind what he is.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Māyāpur you were speaking about you wanted Māyāpur to become a college for the University of Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: No, why Māyāpur? Everywhere. The whole educational system should be changed.

Bahulāśva: We should take it over.

Prabhupāda: Not changed. At least this will remain as a departmental knowledge.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: So what we need, Prabhupāda, is whoever has an advanced degree to come to the college and to teach.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Like even Dāmodara here, prabhu. He has a master's degree.

Prabhupāda: He has already proposed that he wants to give up his service and fully work for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Jayatīrtha: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This... Just now we have received that letter. He doesn't like. He is now realizing, "What I am searching after, false thing?"

Devotees: Jaya!

Dharmādhyakṣa: If Svarūpa Dāmodara could come, that would be very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So convert him also to be a devotee. Then that is another PhD.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, yes. He said he would love to come and teach at our college.

Prabhupāda: Very good. But he must give up his bad habits, illicit sex, meat-eating. At least they must give up.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He is giving them up. He says that he is becoming more sensitive.

Prabhupāda: If he chants, then he is purified.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He realizes this. All his psychologist friends, they are just crazy. They are not solving any problem.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. (end

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...we go to colleges, the young people that are working on Ph.D.'s, they are very... (laughs) They say, "We're doing all this research but you can't prove a thing." I ask them, "Well, this experiment, you know, what will it prove?" He says, "Well, it indicates this, it indicates that, but really doesn't prove anything."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) It proves only that he's a fool. That is the only...

Dharmādhyakṣa: I talked to a very nice Indian gentleman. He's a life member. He's a young Ph.D. in chemistry, Dr. Bhatt. He dedicated his Ph.D. thesis to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. And he quoted īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And I asked him, "What is the practical result of your research?" He said, "Maybe in twenty years they'll find some way to use the research that I am working on."

Prabhupāda: So he has dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, very good. (break) ...also dedicated, our Dr. S..., yes, to Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But why, then, the lavatory they have made distinction for woman and for men?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now in the colleges there's no more distinction.

Jayatīrtha: Co-educational bathrooms.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One bathroom. One residence, one bathroom...

Revatīnandana: The boys and girls live in the same residence on the same floors and use the same bathrooms. Practically there is no restriction on the association. They're not married.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Congress just passed a law that the health education, means the gym, gymnastic classes... Every day there's physical education class?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: Is that the one at Pomona College?

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, this is another one at U.S.C., University of Southern California.

Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. In fact, one is coming over this afternoon.

Brahmānanda: Today two are coming.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Actually at the University of Southern California around three or four members of the religion department want to come, including the chairman.

Prabhupāda: So let them come.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Where is Bahulāśva? I have read that your program. What is that? College of Vedic Science?

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the actual program?

Bahulāśva: That was not completed, Prabhupāda. That's just a description of the courses. Yet we have to add a biography about Your Divine Grace, description of the disciplic succession, the activities of ISKCON, and how the college relates to ISKCON. That was simply an explanation of what courses would be given and how they would be structured.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. (break) How it will be conducted? The idea is very nice. Who has analyzed?

Bahulāśva: Who has...? Dharmādhyakṣa has done the analytical breakdown.

Prabhupāda: Oh, analysis is done nice, of the study.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Regulative principle is the groundwork foundation of everything. Academic career has nothing to do with it. (break) ...bhaktasya kuto mahad guṇā. Anyone who is not factual devotee, his good qualification, academic qualification, has no value.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Many of the students at the Graduate Theological Union, they might want to come to our college to take just one or two courses. Would it be all right for them to do that?

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is welcome. But they must see what is our ideal. Then one day they will also come. So our ideal should be always there, not that we make some compromise. Then it will not be effective.

Dharmādhyakṣa: In the catalogue we say that to get a degree one must be following the regulative principles, that that is as much an important requirement as the study, academic study.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very important thing. Otherwise, just like in India, there are caste brāhmaṇas, but they have no ideal, and therefore it is not working.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (speaks to someone in Hindi) So you were hearing me talking just now?

Indian guest: Oh yes, Swamiji. Listening, part of the conversation I heard. (break) ...these college courses and units, and I realize that to teach a religious course which is a Vedic culture first needs devotion, second needs knowledge. And I need both of them. I lack both of them. And this is... But still, I can support this kind of...

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. Because you have a little desire to know, so that we have to take, a small fire, and we have to fan it. Then it will come, blazing fire. Kali-yuga means actually there is no brāhmaṇa, but whenever there is a little tendency of becoming brāhmaṇa, we take it, accept. Otherwise there is no question of pushing on this movement. Wherever there is little chance, we take advantage. That is our process. (break) Initiation means just to see, "Here is a little chance. He is coming forward. Take it, accept him, and fan it." This is initiation, not that "Now I am initiated, I become perfect." (break) Theological Union, when it was started.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to understand this science, then go to proper guru and take lessons from him. The same thing, as we instruct our children: "If you want to be educated in higher status of life, go to school, go to college, take lesson." That is human society. The dog's father will never ask the dog child, "Go to school." No. They are dogs.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, did you speak about Kant's philosophy in that book also? Yes? He is very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kant is very popular. I was also a student of philosophy. In my student life my professors were all Europeans. I was student of Scottish Church's College in Calcutta. So one professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was our professor for psychology, metaphysics. Later on, he became the vice-chancellor of Calcutta University. A very nice gentleman.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Dr. Mize finds that he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa a little in the shower now. When he takes a shower, he chants a little.

Prabhupāda: One press reporter in the Berkeley University in the beginning, he wrote his article and he wrote that after hearing this Hare Kṛṣṇa for a few minutes, I came home chanting all the road, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." He gave this report.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Could it be called the true yoga of our time?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. It is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga begins with chanting. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). And the more you chant and hear, you become purified. So I think you leaders of your country, you should take this movement very seriously and take it for acceptance. It is not difficult. Chanting. You can chant in school; you can chant in college; you can chant in the factory; you can chant on the street. There is no special qualification required. But if we introduce this chanting, you will be benefited great. There is no loss, but there is great gain.

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are aware that they advance the argument of mesmerization against chanting. The psychologists do that.

Prabhupāda: That's good. That's good. If you can mesmerize, that will... Now Dr. Judah has admitted that you can mesmerize the drug-addicted hippies and engage them in understanding Kṛṣṇa, is a great achievement. (laughter) Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, wouldn't it be better to say he is blind, he is stupid?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the same thing. Mad is the sum total of all stupidity. (laughter) When I say mad, it is the sum total of all kinds of stupidity. Now you can give them prasādam. I think we have occupied their time.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when would you like to speak to Dr. Judah about the college?

Prabhupāda: Whenever he finds convenient. I am always ready.

Dr. Judah: About the college?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Judah: Well, I understand you are interested in founding a college, and er...

Prabhupāda: Everyone should be interested.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: The idea of the college that you have in mind, is this going to be an all-around college, in other words teaching not only, you might say, Vaiṣṇavism, but also English and the other subjects?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dr. Judah: In other words, a liberal arts college with a religious section in it.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like your association is graduate. So you accept graduates to the Union?

Dr. Judah: Well, will this be...

Prabhupāda: Just like law college. Law college, one joins after graduation.

Dr. Judah: Right. There are two types of college programs. One is what we call the undergraduate program which is generally a four-year program leading to a bachelor's degree, and then there is the graduate program, which one finds, particularly here in the United States, if one is interested in religion, in the seminaries, which are...

Prabhupāda: If you have time some other time. We have to go over the particulars. So whenever you like.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...of God means first of all we must know who is God. This is the first. Then, what is this material world and what is my relationship with this material world and God. This is science of God. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...you wanted the colleges named the Vedic Theological College?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm. Don't come very near. (break) ...that the college teachers and students must be brāhmaṇa, not śūdras. Śūdras will not be able to understand the science of God. What was the... Now, Dr... What is his name?

Bahulāśva: Last night?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now you make a best college. Yes. Vedic Theological College, affiliated to the California University. Then it will be successful.

Rādhā-vallabha: People are always anxious to see what we are going to do next.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: Even in Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple they were asking when is our Vṛndāvana temple going to be opened.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...police are also becoming very favorable. Even when they arrest us, actually they want to hear Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Prabhupāda laughs) When they arrest us, while they are writing the tickets, we read to them out of the books.

Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was child, His mother's friend would tease Him so that He may cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He will stop.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You are capable. I know that. He is very capable. You know how to do business, yes. In India an educated man and big, big government officers, lawyers, they will purchase. We do not approach them. School, colleges, library, universities. After all, English language is still current in India. It is not stopped. So they will like to read their own literature in English. They made vigorous propaganda to replace English by Hindi. That has failed. That has failed. No gentleman cares to learn Hindi. (chuckles) At least I never cared. I know Hindi, not by diverting my attention, no. That is very important, no. Automatically whatever I learned, that's all. I am not in favor of that Hindi. Especially in South India, they are all... So by appointing some professional men also.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: I noticed that one review of your books was written by Mohanlal Sharma of Slippery Rock College. He wrote a very enthusiastic review.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He claimed to be the first one to receive you at a college.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is very nice gentleman. He came to see me in New York also, with his family.

Brahmānanda: His wife is Sally?

Prabhupāda: No.

Brahmānanda: That's another girl.

Prabhupāda: He is Gopal. He came to learn electrical engineering.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Mayor: I had some cake over at the temple on Emerson Street, so I'm being well-fed this morning. (break)

Viṣṇujana: ...park areas where a lot of young people go for their summertime. And we'll be putting on our program right there in the park. We'll be chanting with our simple instruments. We'll want to serve some simple vegetarian, like a drink and some fruit, and discuss this philosophy amongst young people. We find that very successful all over the colleges in the country. And we think that around the Great Lakes here it will be very successful.

Prabhupāda: Now, we want this house just to keep them for sometimes with our association. That is temporary, for one hour or two hours, but I wish they should come and live with us for some time. Then it will be effective, more effective. That is... Therefore I wanted a house like this.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So scientists, the psychologist... As I was a student of psychology and our professor, a big man, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he said that "By studying the brains of man and woman, we have found the highest brain substance found in man, sixty-four ounce by weight." You may deny. This is the statement of a big psychologist. You can shake your head, but this is the scientific words by big psychologist. You can note down his name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, professor of psychology in the Scottish Churches College in 1918-20.

Woman reporter: Oh, dear, no wonder. 1918-1920, that means... O.K. I see now what you're thinking about. That was many, many years ago.

Prabhupāda: So can you give any proof since then that the woman's... In 1920... She does not take it?

Nitāi: She does not take it.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: Well, I think there's always been castes. It's just that we don't recognize the fact that they're there.

Prabhupāda: No, recognize means if a man is qualified medical man we accept him as medical man. And if a man is qualified engineer, we accept him as engineer. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā suggests—not suggest, it is there—there are four classes of men, the most intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men and ordinary worker. That is already there. Bhagavad-gītā says how they should be classified, that "He belongs to this class, he belongs to that class." That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, not that by birth, hereditarily, one becomes a caste. You don't try to misunderstand. The classification is already there: one class of men, very intelligent. Is he not there in the human society? Do you think all men are equally intelligent? Do you think? There must be one class, very highly intelligent class. So what are the symptoms of the intelligent class? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first-class intelligent man... (break) ...you find all these qualities, he is first-class man. So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college. Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.

Reporter (2): Will this college be quite different from our conventional college which has a great emphasis on athletics, I mean, football teams and...

Prabhupāda: Well, an education... A highly educated man does not require athletics. He requires good brain. Just like high-court judge, he requires a good brain, not a big gigantic body.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: You know him? You must be knowing. I think he gives definition of economic impetus-family affection. I was also a student of economics in my student life, Scottish Churches' College. So we had to read this Marshall economics, I think. That definition, that what is the economic impetus, why people want to earn money? So the reason, he gives-due to some family affection. Am I right?

Mr. Surface: I didn't understand the last part.

Prabhupāda: Family affection.

Brahmānanda: Family affection is the impetus for economic...

Prabhupāda: Development.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: If you do not know actually what is God, then you will deny. Or if you deny, then present who is God, if you know. Then you will have to say, "I do not know what is God." So anyone who is trying to study religion and God, they should try to understand our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Satsvarūpa: The professor says they have the Bhagavad-gītā in his college.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You have got this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?

Professor: Yes, in the library.

Prabhupāda: You can...? You have read our this Bhagavad-gītā?

Professor: I have read it, yes.

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic understanding, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). You understand Sanskrit? No. Kṛṣṇa... there are description of the incarnations. There is name of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: No, incarnations there are many. Many incarnations. There is a verse there. But Kṛṣṇa is the origin of incarnation. He is the original source of all incarnation. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So as you are teacher of religion, so you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, during the last year I went to many different colleges and universities. And I could see that these professors are very much argumentative. They like to argue. They like to debate. So I tried to start one debating program so that they could come and they could bring their philosophy. And I told them that I could show them their philosophy and how it was defective from the Bhagavad-gītā. I wanted to know if this was a good program for the universities.

Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?

Devotee (4): There were some engineers that came. And they said that everything that we see manifested in this material world is made by the engineers.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is the greatest engineer.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Brahmānanda: This varṇāśrama college...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varnāśrama means everyone should be engaged. There will be no, I mean to say, (indistinct).

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what exactly do the... Do the vaiśyas cultivate the fields or the śūdras cultivate the fields?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: Is it the duty of the vaiśyas to cultivate the fields or...?

Prabhupāda: Actually it is the duty of the vaiśyas, but the śūdras can help everyone, the helpers. The śūdras will help the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, as well as the vaiśyas. Those who have no brain—simply they can carry out order—they are śūdras. And those who have got brain, they can act as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya. They have got brain to take the initiative. First-class brain, they should be engaged in studying śāstras, writing books and in the worship of the Deity, lecturing enlightened people. This is brāhmaṇa. They haven't got to work as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. They are simply intellectuals. This is brāhmaṇa, with good character.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I sold my books here. When I was alone, I was selling books.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You would go to different libraries and colleges?

Prabhupāda: Especially colleges and libraries. Everyone was taking.

Bhāgavata: Even the prime minister, Lal Bahadur Sastri, you gave him book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was good man.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was very religious. I think if he would have been there today we would have had no problem.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (Hindi) He could not solve his own problem. (break) ...court? No.

Tejas: This is Mundi House.

Prabhupāda: Mundi House means?

Tejas: Mahārāja of Mundi. Now it's a television studio.

Prabhupāda: Rajwari garden, they are serious about?

Tejas: He is serious.

Morning Walk -- August 25, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: That is no... Actually the principal of the college, he has more say in the running of the college than Bon Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: He dictates.

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How many students are in this college?

Prabhupāda: When he comes, Bon Mahārāja, here?

Dhanañjaya: Well, yesterday we went to see, but he is suffering form bronchitis and a fever. He was lying in his bed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He looked quite sick.

Brahmānanda: You saw him?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they said. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...teachers' quarter? No.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. In the college university they have a big clock tower...

Prabhupāda: These are the signs how they are disappointed. They are always ready to commit suicide. So where is success?

Vāsughoṣa: They are practically committing suicide by their activities.

Prabhupāda: That is also another side. But practically you see.

Vāsughoṣa: Hm. But by this smoking cigarettes, meat-eating... I mean, we explain to them that doctors have found that meat-eating...

Prabhupāda: I have seen about some thirty years ago, one man was sitting... I was traveling in the railway apartment, and all of a sudden he jumped through the window.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: To cleanse the heart, beginning of cleanse the heart, that everyone is cats and dogs and so-called human beings... They are under the bodily concept of life. It has to be cleansed, that "You are not this body." If he understands that, then he will understand other things. This is the beginning of knowledge. But where is that knowledge? No school, no college, teaches this thing. So they remain in ignorance. What is this education if he remains in ignorance? (break) ...kinds of advertisement.

Cyavana: That is their propaganda. (break)

Prabhupāda: There was no... We don't require all these things because we know others are victims. They pay for it. And they work hard for the money and pay to work. That's all. Our men never touch this Coca-cola and cigarette, but others, they are mad after it.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is the chance of a human being. Therefore in the human society there is school, college, education, culture, not in the animal society, because they can be made into perfect, not the animals. So if they are denied proper education, that is the greatest harm. They got the opportunity, and the authorities are not giving them their opportunity.

Guest (4): No, but do you mean the perfectness is to become God or to become the man? Then I want...

Prabhupāda: You never become God.

Guest (4): What does perfectness mean?

Prabhupāda: Perfect means to become godly.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: English, economics, philosophy or..., mostly Scottish... I was educated in Scottish Churches College. The philosophy professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he was very friendly to me, very kind, just like father. (break) ...he became vice chancellor. He was a very learned man, and very nice man, W. S. Urquhart.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach in English or Bengali?

Prabhupāda: No, no. English. Medium English.

Harikeśa: He was the one who said that the woman's brain is thirty-six ounces?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (chuckles) Yes. No, not only he, another professor, Dr. Stephen (indistinct), he also said. That's a fact. Artificially they are trying. It has no meaning. But by agitation you can do anything. That is another thing. But that is not the fact. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). These are all Indian quarters? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area? No, I think this is more European. But where we're staying is Indian area. It's all Indian.

Prabhupāda: These European professors, they had to learn Bengali. They knew Bengali. It was compulsory. All European officers who used to come to India for responsible post, it was obligated.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: Yes. If you begin dressing things up, they change. And the size of the movement now? Is it a growing movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, it is very much growing. You will be surprised that we are selling these books... We have got about fifty books like this, and every library, college, professor, universities, they are very much appreciative of this, because there was no such literature existent. This is the new contribution to the world.

Faill: Now, this American, Alpert, he came to a state of God consciousness, but he was very, very heavy on drugs. This can't be right, taking a drug.

Prabhupāda: Alfred? Just speak.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: It's just another way of looking out.

Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: We try to just make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it's automatic revolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Peaceful revolution. Other revolution will not stand. (break) (in car) ...perfect philosophy.

Harikeśa: Your method is also the perfect method, the books in the colleges and libraries, educated people and... Wonderful. Actually, you have set everything up to do this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. I am simply putting them for modern man's understanding. That's all.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand, they think, "Dogmatic." It is not dogmatic. Most scientific.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we find śūdras even amongst the European class here, even though they are in the governing position.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not speaking "Europeans, Americans, Indians." We are speaking "human being." We never say... Bhagavad-gītā never says that the Europeans should be the first-class men and Indian should be the last... It never says. That is training. Just like engineering college. The European also can become engineer, and the Indian also can become engineer. There is no discrimination. Similarly, this division of society, that the whole human society, it should be recruited and trained up... Then society will be all right. Otherwise not.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Kṛṣṇa. We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college-come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold," everyone's gold? "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The college boys are taking advantage of this.

Indian man (1): Always you can get the beer, all beer, every place.

Dr. Patel: Cold beer?

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: No, because I don't drink. I don't know. I have not taken tea even in England during my education because I am not to take tea. I am totally teetotaler of the right way. The society is right from the beginning body conscious, more or less, we. We are not taught even during our age of education that we are not this body and something else. This was being done in the ancient times, our forefathers. When the boys were going to the guru, they were first taught this, that "You are not this body; you are something else." And here you are taught you are body so you have to take exercise.

Prabhupāda: That is the first education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, beginning of Bhagavad-gītā-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Unless one understands that "There is change of body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and that's all. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we are keeping this civilization—animals. How there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation, and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that? Because you are dog, it is not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.

Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.

Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.

Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.

Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He was professor of Presidents' College, Calcutta. Their opinion is Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.

Dr. Patel: In Russian language there are so many Sanskrit words.

Prabhupāda: Deva-nāgarī. In the heavenly planets this language is... Heavenly planet the Sanskrit language is used. Therefore it is called deva-nāgarī. Nāgara means town, and deva means demigod. This language is spoken in the heavenly planets, deva-nāgara. But these rascals, they think there is no living entity in any other planet except this.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Ninety-nine per cent of the people are completely misled.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not ninety-nine per cent. Maybe nine percent. (break)

Dr. Patel: As a matter of fact, science is not revealing itself now. Science is also realizing that it is not the way to realize God. Science is, when you were a student at college was much different than what it is today, sir, to tell the truth. The scientists have realized that they are nothing before, before all that they observe and the director of all that action, themselves and everything.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now don't talk. (laughter) I was a professor in the college, so I am very sorry. This particular habit is lurking me as yet.

Yaśomatīnandana: māyā is killing the scientists.

Dr. Patel: (Gujarati) But that is what it is, sir. Really, it set me thinking when I was a small baby boy, how this could maintain the body of a dog if there was no something in it. It is a very important thing to understand. Think about it.

Prabhupāda: ...good substance, very good substance. Stool is full of hypophosphates.

Dr. Patel: Whatever it is, but there it is...

Prabhupāda: That was analyzed by a big doctor. You know that Dr. Ghosh who came? Dr. Ghosh from Allahabad? So one day I went to his house, and I saw in a plate something yellow is kept. And "What is this, doctor?" "Oh, that is stool to be examined."

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How they are spoiling the career. Whole life is spoiled. They are being taught in this way. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is going on, schools, colleges: "Don't believe in God." That has become a fashion, advancement. Yes. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But all are not like that.

Indian man (1): Not all, but some. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Not some, ninety percent.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And one Śaṅkarācārya—I don't know which—who was the professor in one of the colleges of Madras, he went and met Professor Einstein and talked about... And then he gave out some, one śloka of two lines which actually depicted how atoms could be smashed. That is in our sciences.

Indian man (2): This is fact?

Dr. Patel: Yes, it's a fact. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (break) ...ago, there was one Mr. Badhuri in Benares. He was a great astrologer. So he told me that from Benares the Germans have taken three books: one is Akāśa-patola, one is Kapota-vahi and his Khapoda-vahi. Khapoda-vahi, this airplane. Kha means akasa. And there is another science, kapota-vahi, to carry man by the pigeons. That is not yet displayed. Kapota-vahi. And there is another, Akasa-patola. Any, any, even your chairs you sit down; by mantra it will go on.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now, sir, they say that in American universities also, many universities have started teaching Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In every school, every college, every university, there is Sanskrit. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...was the real man who, when he started studying Vedas, he realized that in Sanskrit language there is a huge literature of great importance. He spread the things in Germany. No, he was staying in England.

Prabhupāda: By international scholars' meeting these diacritic marks were discovered for studying Sanskrit. The diacritic marks which we use, that is international agreement of Sanskrit scholars.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Yes. Those marks. A, and a and u and ai and these dots. Yes, that is international. Nobody can claim. That is long back, sir. I think Max Muller's time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: There were so many scholars, even in Paris, Germany, and Italy.

Prabhupāda: Professor Roe and Webb, they were professor in Presidency College when we were school children. They admitted Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So near. You can come. (break) It is published, that the wood... Now it is no green leaves. Why? What is missing? If they are so expert, inject something and it will have green leaves like that. (break) ...I mean to say, trucks they are rejected in your country. We do not see such buses. What is this house?

Harikeśa: It's a college. It's a girls' college.

Prabhupāda: (break) How to kill child. This is education. Huh? Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How to get equal rights.

Prabhupāda: No, equal rights, that's all right. This is the education. The uneducated girls do not do this.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Harikeśa: In the back of that Awake magazine there was one little article that said that this one teacher in one college was doing yoga. He locked himself up in his room and went into a yogic trance, and they finally broke into his room two days later and found him in the same position but dead. So then they say that because he was in yogic trance that his heart was going too slow to give sufficient blood to the body, so he died.

Prabhupāda: So by yoga practice he died.

Harikeśa: Yes, that's what they're saying.

Prabhupāda: The result is he's died.

Ambarīṣa: My father, he read that article, and that's what he says to me. He says, "You do yoga and you'll end up like this man."

Prabhupāda: These are government buildings. They are not properly maintained. The roads are not properly maintained. So New Delhi light is diminishing. And the shabby motor buses.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You do not know this? Baro baro bandolel, baro baro peṭ laṅkā dingate, matakare het.(?) (laughter) This translation was done by one big professor, of President's College, Professor Rowe. He was a big professor in the President's College. So these professors required to learn Bengali, so he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping melancholy."

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: These are all a school building? Hm? They're extended.

Tejas: Yes.

Devotee: It's a school.

Tejas: They have also opened a new school. Besides this they have opened another college.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tejas: Some place in south Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.

Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)

Girirāja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...

Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. The blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of (indistinct). They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.

Prabhupāda: That man also says like that.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So culture is the background for all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Education is required to help culture. Not that you take degrees from the university and remain a dog. That is not education. Here is education, as Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says:

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmāvat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Here is a description of paṇḍita: first of all learn how to see other woman as your mother. There the culture begins. And they are, from the very beginning of the school college life, they are learning how to entice one girl. This is education.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: "I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for those who are tattva-darśanas."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way of learning everything. You cannot learn your medical science from a pān-wālā. You have to go to a medical college.

Dr. Patel: They also give some (gowdies?) in the pān.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot take your degree from the pān wālā. Nowadays some of the rascals, they are preaching openly that you haven't got to go to a guru. Huh, is it not?

Indian man: Krishnamurti is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this rascal was speaking like that.

Page Title:Colleges (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=195, Let=0
No. of Quotes:195