Christianity (Conv. 1975)

Expressions researched:
"Catholic" |"Christian" |"Christian's" |"Christianity" |"Christianity's" |"Christians" |"Protestant"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's family. "Book Digest." They publish our books?

Kirtirāja: We are trying to arrange that now. All of these different... There are so many magazines we are trying to get our books listed in them. Śrīla Prabhupāda, here's a magazine which one Christian press nearby has printed, very fancy magazine, and they were distributing it for free. They just recently printed a letter and then sent this. They have gone from this to this because they cannot afford to do it any more. No one is giving them donations any more, so they've gone from big fancy magazine to a small, plain paper. This people would like to see, but now this just looks like garbage. They won't even read it.

Prabhupāda: So it has degraded.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): So dharma there means to the religious faith or duty?

Prabhupāda: No, dharma is duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. That is also given up. That means the only duty becomes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. In the beginning He said that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Yes. Yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Now, He said that "I appear to reestablish the principle of religion." So at the last stage He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. That means the so-called dharmas, or religion, which is going on in the world, they are not real. And the Bhāgavata therefore says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), that "All kinds of pretending religion is rejected here." Pretending religion, what is that? Pretending... Just like gold. Gold is gold. If the gold is in the hand of some Hindu, then will it be called Hindu gold? Similarly, religion means obedience to God. So where is Hindu religion? Where is Christian religion? Where is Muslim religion? God is everywhere, and we are just meant for obeying God. That is one religion, obedience to God. Why they have manufactured this Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, this religion, that...? Therefore they are all pretending religion. Real religion is obedient... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law. Law is made by the state. The law cannot be Hindu law, Muslim law, Christian law, this law, that law. Law is meant for everyone. Obedience to the state. That is law. Similarly, religion means obedience to God.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's more or less saying that in the Catholic church how they also demand the same type of faith. He said they all have a bad experience with that. And then he more or less...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I can understand. The thing is that everyone can take advantage of this statement that "I am perfect." Just like so many rogues and bogus persons come. But it is your duty to know whether he is perfect. It is your duty to test whether he is perfect. That requires intelligence. If you unintelligently accept some bogus person as perfect, that is your fault. You must be assured that "The person from whom I am asking, he is perfect." Then you take it. Otherwise don't take.

Professor: Can I put a question? Why do you always say, "From a perfect person"?

Prabhupāda: Because the knowledge must be perfect; otherwise imperfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Religion cannot be many; religion is one. If anyone says there are many religions, that, he does not know what is religion. Just like science: two plus two is equal to four. It is equally applicable everywhere. You cannot say that "To the Christian two plus two equal to five," the "Christian science" or "Christian mathematics." That you cannot say. Science and mathematics is the same everywhere. If God is one, therefore knowledge of God should be one. There cannot be two.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that all religions agree that man can be perfected although he may not be perfect now...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of religion. We are talking of philosophy and science. When we talk about these things that the occupier of the body is within the body, it is neither any Christian knowledge nor Hindu knowledge nor... It is fact. It is a science. The science cannot be "I believe or you believe or you..." That is not science. Science is science. I have already said. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable everywhere. Similarly, this is knowledge, that the proprietor, or the occupier of the body, is within the body. You can study from any angle of vision. The fact is there.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, every guru is the way to approach God. That's a fact. But he has got his name, Christ. So why do you deny this name? "Christ says,"—that means either you take him anything, but he has a name, Christ.

Lady: No.

Prabhupāda: No? What is this? (laughter) That is your conception. It is not Bible's conception. Bible says the son of God is Christ. You can create by mental concoction anything, but if you refer to the Bible, the name is Christ. Everyone says, all Christians says, all Christians says, "the Jesus Christ." Why do you deny it?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Māyāvāda. She says that everyone has the Christ within him.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't agree with all these things.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3): There's three of us here that are monks from Connear(?), Trappist monks, and you use Hare Kṛṣṇa as a way to God consciousness, while in our Christian tradition we use the name Jesus and we repeat it constantly and try to become conscious of him.

Prabhupāda: Jesus, did he say... Jesus Christ, did he say that Jesus is the name of God?

Guest (3): Well, that's what Christians believe, yeah.

Prabhupāda: No, is there anything mentioned in the Bible that Jesus is the name of God?

Guest (3): I'm not sure.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That is fact. That is fact.

Guest (3): Well, again it depends upon the belief of each individual.

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus is described as son of God. Do you deny that?

Guest (3): Definitely, he is definitely son of God just as you and I are. But at the same time, as Christians... Of course it's a matter of belief.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The son and the father, they are the same because son is born out of father. So how he can be different? In that sense it is one.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3): This tradition of the names was a tradition that was developed for two thousand years, beginning with the monks, and which most Christians are really not aware of, that through this japa a man can come to consciousness of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, when one comes to God consciousness. And the relationship is "God is great; we are subordinate." Just like the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained. Although the father and the son of the same quality, still, the relationship is the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained.

Guest (5): That's, of course, not the orthodox Christian interpretation, that's supposed to be. It's very clear by the time the decrees were worked out that Jesus is not a creature. He's incarnate God.

Guest (6): You say that we are creatures, and we are subordinate to God, and I can understand that. Christ was not created.

Prabhupāda: Yes, none of us are created.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if you go to God, that is very good. With motive or without motive, you have come to God, that is piety. That is better than to become impious. Impious men, they do not go to God. Just like nowadays nobody goes to church. Church are selling. Simply... Temples also. So now there are in India so many township development. They are constructing very fashionable houses, but no temples. Nobody is constructing temple. At the present moment everybody has become disinterested with anything religion and God. All over the world. That is degradation. Especially I am seeing in Bombay, that Juhu scheme, very nice houses are being manufactured. You have all seen. But nobody is constructing a temple. The modern economists, they say "nonproductive endeavor"—means there is no income. Simply you have to spend money for maintaining the temple. So they are not interested in nonproductive things. So this is degradation of the human society. Either as Christian or Hindu or Mohammedan, nobody is interested. A few may be interested.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So your question was devotee and not devotee, no? You questioned?

Guest (4): I am a Christian, yes.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your question...

Guest (4): Oh, do I have a question? Yes, to my question, you answered it. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the question of Mr. Psychiatrist? Who is psychiatrist? You are? Come here.

Guest (7): No, I have just come to listen.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. The other day in Caracas two or three psychiatrists came. His question was how to solve the problems. So our statement is that unless you treat the spiritual disease of the human society, then the problems will increase. It will be never be solved. The real disease is spiritual disease.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: This nonsense thing has created all problems. Therefore Vedic civilization is—first teaching is brahmacārī—how to learn to avoid sex life. If one can continue without sex life he is praised, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. If one cannot, all right you become a perfect gṛhastha. So many rules and regulations. Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāma, that is all right, but if you use sex life for sense gratification and becomes implicated in so many sinful activities, then how he'll be happy? A sinful man cannot become happy, that is not possible. All our sinful activities, the so-called scientists are helping, "Yes, you can do this." And the church is sanctioning. This is going on. The Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are now teaching, "yes, you can kill the child. You have killed cows and so many things, that is all right. Again you kill your child."

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Just like Christian religion, what it is teaching?

Professor Fenton: Christian? It is the humanization of man, to trust in Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why trust Lord Jesus Christ?

Professor Fenton: Because he is the root to reality, the truth.

Prabhupāda: That means he's son of God, is it not?

Professor Fenton: Yes, but I personally am not that orthodox. That is the orthodox teaching.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Teaching must be orthodox, otherwise what is the value? If the teaching changes, that is not very good.

Professor Fenton: Well, it may be that it changed in the early history of Christianity through Greek influence on its Jewish background.

Prabhupāda: It is changing now also, they are so... Change is of the material world, in the spiritual world there is no change, absolute. In the relative world there is change. So our definition of religion is little different from the worldly definition. Our definition... "Our" means there should be the real definition: religion means the laws which are given by God.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: He is serving International Society. I am serving Kṛṣṇa, or he is serving Kṛṣṇa, like that. So everyone is serving, this is religion. To remain a servant. It does not mean that the Hindus are only servant, or Muslims are servant and Christians are not. Everyone is servant. Is it not a fact?

Professor Fenton: I hope it is.

Prabhupāda: That servitude or service has to be rendered to God. That is perfection of service. So that is religion. We are serving, I am serving this, you are serving that, you are serving... But when that service is rendered to God, Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect service, perfect, perfection aḥ... satisfaction, that is religion. According to Sanskrit dictionary or what is it called? The dictionary?

Satsvarūpa: Sanskrit dictionary.

Prabhupāda: Religion, in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa, God, is demanding that you surrender. This surrender business is of the servant. Just like I can say to my servant, "Just hear me what I say, do it." And he does it. That is servant. A servant cannot dictate, the master can dictate. Servant is to obey the dictation of the master. That is religion. When the servant obeys the dicta... (aside—indistinct) Hm. Take this picture, keep there. This picture, here, here. You come here. Take this vase down. Yes. We... God is great. God is great. Do you understand? God is great.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: Sometimes the Christians are distributing papers still at the airports. We invite them to come and take prasāda with us every day.

Prabhupāda: They come?

Tripurāri: They are reluctant. Some, one or two, come.

Devotee (2): Every once in awhile someone we meet when we're distributing books comes and joins us for prasādam, one time a businessman and one time a soldier. Various people sometimes join us. We take a 12 o'clock, 12:30 lunch break. Sometimes we'll be joined by one of these people we distribute books to.

Prabhupāda: When you were with Maharishi? Come here.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: "Poor Christ, he has to suffer for all the sinful activities, and he wanted to save us from sin, gave his injunction. That we shall not care." This is Christian religion. And therefore they have to close down this hypocrisy. (break) That Melbourne meeting, some of you were with me? No. In Melbourne I was invited by some, many priests. Twice I was invited. The first meeting I am speaking. So there was a good meeting, all respectable priests. So they asked me that "Why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" So I asked them that "What you have not done?" (laughter) So they were not very much pleased. But I, in the open meeting, I said, "What you have not done? You have done all sinful activities. Therefore you have to close down this hypocrisy now." That was my answer, "What you have not done?" Now they are sorry, "What we have done?" That is called ignorance. They have done everything all sinful. They do not know that is sinful. (break) ...Bible, "Thou shall not kill," and they will not obey. That is sinful. Everything is there clearly, Ten Commandments, but they will not do that. Willful sinners. One may act sinfully, unaware. But they are willfully sinners. They know this is sin, and still they are doing.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Rāmeśvara: But the Communists, they also argue that this Christian religion is hypocrisy. It has not brought peace on earth. So they also want to abolish it.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rāmeśvara: They also want to abolish religion, this Christian religion, and just have a...

Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. They have got bad experience from this so-called Christian religion, and they have no information that there is need of religion. Therefore they want to abolish. Everyone has got bad experience, and they are a little forward, that "Finish it." That's it.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: This is the best humanity's service. They were all fools and rascals and we educated them for spiritual understanding. The material... If I think "I am this body," then I am no better than cat and dog. That is going on. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Only this bodily relationship. But suppose you have come to me, can I ask you whether you are body or something else?

Reporter: Swamiji, perhaps the deficiency is in my question. Let me rephrase the question, if you'll permit. And I realize there isn't much air to breathe. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But I will make the question brief. My question has to do with karma-yoga in the outer world, for instance, in New York City. From what I understand, your disciples do not pursue the professions. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: No, we are also, we are also karma-yogī. We are also eating, we are also sleeping.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So cow is very important animal. So from religious point of view, or from economic point of view, cows are not allowed, in the Vedic civilization, to be killed. The meat-eaters, they are everywhere, all over the world, but in India meat-eating is allowed—the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead. And the śūdra class, they also eat meat restrictively, goats. That is only under certain restriction, means sacrifice. The goat is sacrificed in the Goddess Kali's temple, and they eat. This is very dangerous, this sacrifice. It is very dangerous. It creates all sinful men. In the Christian religion also, it is said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are killing. So what kind of Christians they are?

Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse? The goats?

Prabhupāda: No.

Bernard Manischewitz: Like a sacrifice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: Can you tell me how your teaching relates to the Bible, to the Christian teaching?

Prabhupāda: Christian teaching is good. It is giving idea of God. But who is following Christian teaching? That is the problem. Nobody is following. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christian people are very expert in killing. Do you admit or not?

Reporter: I admit.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Then who is a Christian? If one does not follow the instruction of Christ, then would you call him a Christian?

Reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That is the problem.

Reporte: Is there any reason why you teach your followers the Bhagavad-gītā rather than the Bible?

Prabhupāda: The teaching is the same. The teaching is the same. What Lord Jesus Christ taught and what we are... (aside:) Aiye. The teaching is the same. But who is following? That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: The difficulty has arisen—I am claiming to be Hindu, but I am not following the Vedic rules. You are claiming to be Christian, but you are not following the Christian rules. This is going on all over the world.

Reporter: But if someone was making the Bible a sort of reality in their lives...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is good. What is the wrong there, Bible? It is everything all right. We don't say "The Bible is bad, and Vedas are good." We don't say that.

Reporter: Are you yourself or do your followers regard you as an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa or as the teacher of His teachings?

Prabhupāda: No. We regard ourself as servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: They are wasting time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not understand what is their position; therefore their teaching is simply waste of time. This is the position: that God is great, and we are all dependent on God. Who will deny this? This is the original principle. Now, in one religious system it may be taught in a little different way. In another religious system it may be... But if there is no such sense that "God is the supreme, and we are all subordinate servant..." This should be the basic idea. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

He says that "That is first-class religion which teaches the followers how to become obedient to God." It doesn't matter whether it's Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion. If they are teaching this fact, that... Actually they are doing that. Muslim they say, allah akbar. Christian people say, "God is great," and the Hindus also say, eko brahma dvitīya nāsti. So you go... Just the same teaching.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: I read a news report recently that you had said in Paris that you no longer taught your followers to chant simply the name of, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, because the name of God could be chanted in any form. Is that so?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chanting of the holy name... We are broadcasting that you, in this age, you begin for God realization. Chant His holy name. Very simple thing.

Reporter: So this holy name can be in different forms for a Christian or a Hindu.

Prabhupāda: Different form means that the... Just like water. Water, somebody says, "Water," and India, somebody says, jal, or pani, but the substance is the same. If your name means the same thing, then it is right. And if your name suggests something else, then it is wrong.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not meant for the Hindus, but Kṛṣṇa appeared in Hindustan. Therefore it is the duty of all Hindus to know Kṛṣṇa first. And they also conscious. Every Hindu knows Kṛṣṇa. Every Hindu observes the Janmāṣṭamī, Kṛṣṇa's birthday. But they are not very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa as a follower. Just like Christian. They admit they are Christian but don't follow the Christian principles. So that Hindus are also like that. Nobody is following Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior person or superior position than Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And "God" means that. In the dictionary "God" means the Supreme Being. Supreme Being means nobody is greater than Him; nobody is equal to Him. That is called supreme. So here God personally says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). But this rascal will not accept. They will say, "No, here is another dini-kṛṣṇa." They will bring one competitor. That is going on. "God" means there cannot be any competitor. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. But they will bring so many competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa alone will be God?" This is the position of the modern Hindus. They have lost their own culture, and they wanted to imitate Western culture. That they could not do, neither they could maintain their own culture. Therefore in the wilderness, very precarious condition.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, and if somebody would say that "Simply I have to satisfy You? Then I have to satisfy others also. If I do not do, then I will be sinful," that, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry. If there is any reaction, not doing other duty, simply to surrender to Me, and if there is sinful reaction, then I'll give you protection. Don't worry." This is the conclusion. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all, without any malinterpretation. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. But we are not interpreting. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And it is becoming effective. Bhagavad-gītā was studied in the Western countries since a long time, since seventeenth century—but not like this. Before me, many swamis, yogis, they came to the Western countries, and most of them spoke on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But now they are becoming by hundreds because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is. This is the comparison. We have got Christians, Mohammedans, then Buddhist, Africans. Everyone we have got in our society, all very devout executor of our mission.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: Religion.

Prabhupāda: No. Tradition, religion, they are all material. They are also all designation. I am thinking I am Hindu, you are thinking you are Christian, he is thinking as Buddhist—these are all designation.

Ambassador: Within each of these there is the esoteric.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all this type of false religion." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, only one. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is in trouble of this material condition. And our difficulty is that when we want to convince another person about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that "I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan, so they are trying to proselytize me." That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is very good. That is our philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumārtho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says, "That is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him." That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaiṣṇava dharma in a crude form like the Christian. So we can amalgamate them all if they are sane men. I suggested that there are many churches vacant. If they give us these churches we shall install Deity—Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva—and along with them we shall worship Lord Jesus Christ also. Similarly, we can do Muhammad. There is no harm. But they are against this Deity worship, eh? Mohammedans?

Yoga student: Yes, they are. That sort of expression. And yet, amongst the Sufi poets...

Prabhupāda: Deity is also expression, form is also expression, but they do not understand it.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Devotee: He's coming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. India... Formerly your country was part of India, and you belong to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Āryan? So Āryan culture was practically all over the world. Āryan culture is based on God consciousness. So amongst the Āryans there is some conception of religion, either Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, Buddhist religion, Vedic religion, based on conception of God. So according to time, country, the ways of understanding may be little different, but the aim is God consciousness. That is Āryan civilization. So God is one; God cannot be two. So the features of God or angle of vision of God may be different. So they have been summarized in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Aside:) You can come forward. One feature of God is impersonal. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spreading all over the universe. It is impersonal. But the quality of the sunshine is heat and light. The heat and light means energy.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is the Christian idea.

Young man: Yeah. And the...

Prabhupāda: The Mohammedan, Islam is also same idea?

Young man: Well, since the Old Testament, part of the Old Testament, is very similar to the Koran, I presume the creation of Adam, that bit, is also taken from the Old Testament. But He is projected as a great judge really, a supreme judge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He must be the supreme judge because He is Supreme Being. So He is not only... Supreme judge means supreme knowledge.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: They accept God, that's all. But God is here explained. They cannot give an explicit idea of God. But here is God speaking personally. They have got "There is God," "God is great." That's nice. But who is that God, how He is great, that they have to learn further. Simply a vague idea, that "God is great..." One should know how He is great and who is that great. That is perfection. So that is explained here. They accept God. That is... They are also our brother because they accept God. They are not atheist. Atheists, they don't accept God. "There is no God"—that is atheist. But here they are theist. They accept God. They want to please God. They go to the church, go to the mosque, offer prayer. Prayer is also bhakti, devotional service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ... (SB 7.5.23). Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam..., arcanaṁ vandanam. Vandanam. The Christian way or the Muslim way, to offer... The Muslim offer obeisances and offer prayer. So that is also bhakti. The Christian also do that, so that is also bhakti. And they accept God; we accept God. So there is no difference. But the only point is who is that God.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest: And when Muhammad said that God is great, he simply said God is great, and he adds nothing to it for somebody who is well acquainted with Islam culture and he who knows well about Koran's teachings, it cannot be understood and accepted. It is the same with somebody who is well acquainted with Christianity and the truth spoken through Christianity. It is the same with the Buddhism or other ways which are designed, which are...

Prabhupāda: So your point is that God is understood in different ways. That is not point?

Atreya Ṛṣi: That's one of his points.

Prabhupāda: And what is the other point?

Atreya Ṛṣi: That all the scriptures speak of the same truth. Scriptures coming from God speak of the same truth that is in Bhagavad-gītā. And all the scriptures give a real path to God, and that there..., as many as individuals as there are, there are ways of getting to God, and that God could not be fair if He just gave one book at one time to one group of people. Being just, He has given the scripture... He should have...

Prabhupāda: No, just like dictionary. The small pocket dictionary is also dictionary, and the international dictionary, (sic?) Webs, that is also dictionary. So both of them are dictionary, but they are not equal. One dictionary is meant for children and one dictionary is meant for the higher scholars. So although are dictionaries, they are two kinds of dictionaries.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's not a religion.

Prabhupāda: No, if you want to study something, and suppose you are sometimes from India, the same subject he's going to study in foreign country, farther enlightenment, it is also not necessary that to study a subject matter more and more, we have to remain in the same jurisdiction. If I am actually anxious to know more and more, it doesn't matter whether I get the knowledge from Mohammedan or Hindu or Christian, it doesn't matter. Knowledge is knowledge. When a student goes from one country to another to get farther enlightenment on a subject matter, he does not think that "I'll have to learn it from here, from my university." For knowledge, progress of knowledge, you can go to any university. Because knowledge must be scientific. It is not restricted within the jurisdiction of a particular university. So, sun we are seeing, everyone, the sun, getting heat and light but if anyone is interested (to) know how the heat is coming, how the light is coming, what is the situation of the sun globe, whether there are living entities or not. They're also subject matter. So if you can get enlightenment of the sun, we should not restrict ourselves that we have to study with this jurisdiction of my university, or my country, or my society. If the knowledge is there, we should be prepared to go forward.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Hold on, then, what is the name of God?

Lady: Right, in Christianity there is write: "In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But what is the name of God?

Lady: In Islamic religion, they say...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the name of God? Islam is the system of religion, but what is the name of God?

Lady: The name of God is something which is always with God, constantly with God...

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know that. You do not know that.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy. sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumartho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says that is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him. That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaisnalam in crude form, like the Christians (indistinct) if they are sane man. I suggested that there are many churches vacant, if they give us these churches, we shall install Deity, Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva, and along with them we can worship Jesus Christ. Similarly, we can do Mohammed. But they are against this Deity worship. Yes?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Mohammedans?

Guest: Yes, with that sort of expression.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: And yet amongst the Sufi poets there is...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) is also expression, form is also expression.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: The authority is the Christian tradition.

Acyutānanda: The Bible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When he says church, that means authority, Bible.

Acyutānanda: The Bible.

Prajāpati: No, part. The Bible is part.

Acyutānanda: Only part, one part.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: He says the Bible is not... The Bible is not the complete authority?

Prajāpati: No, it's the tradition of the church through the great founding fathers, the great theologians up until the present day.

Viṣṇujana: Sādhu, śāstra, guru.

Prabhupāda: No... Vāk...

Prajāpati: Yes, unfortunately no guru.

Prabhupāda: Church... Church is following Bible.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So ultimately Bible becomes authority.

Prajāpati: In certain segments of Christianity, not all.

Acyutānanda: So what is their conclusion?

Pañcadraviḍa: Excuse me one minute before we go on. What is this in relation to, this discussion? I just walked in.

Prabhupāda: This... The subject matter is whether by theological arguments one can understand God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, according to dictionary, theology, theo, the Latin word theo, it means, that means God. Theo means God. And as far as I know, theology means the science or the study of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: And what was that?

Prabhupāda: But they... They must explain. Just like in Vedic literature the same idea is there. (aside:) Don't lean. I am begging excuse. I am old man. But you should sit down like that Guru Mahārāja. So we know what was the word, oṁkāra. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. (break) So oṁkāra is the word. So what is the Christian word?

Prajāpati: Again there's no absolute authority. In the vast Christian tradition we have Origen saying one thing and Saint Francis saying another. Widespread... That's why it is not a science that we can go to like we can to Śrīla Prabhupāda for an exact answer, Bhagavad-gītā, exact absolute authority. In the Christian tradition it is simply defined as faithful men understanding themselves in the light of the scripture, in the light of the tradition.

Prabhupāda: No, that is because you are our student. Suppose our preachers meet the theologicians. How to prove that theology is not the means? Theology... Generally, you say it is speculation. So our point is that nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: I met one... I was traveling about three months ago in India. I met one Christian on the train. So we began to discuss the śāstra. So I mentioned some of the arguments in reference to the Bible, that Christ was speaking...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) No, no. Where that covering? Where is it?

Pañcadraviḍa: I said that Christ was speaking basically to an uneducated public, the fishermen, etc... So then this man, he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. But," he said, "You're..."

Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?

Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."

Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: There's always a differentiation we must make between a Christian, who we might meet and engage in argument, and the theologian himself. The theologian is a very oily character, very hard to pin down. The Christian, he may have specific beliefs, dogmatic, tenaciously holding to dogma, but the theologian, he-

Acyutānanda: Well what does that...? What do they say?

Prajāpati: The theologians?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prajāpati: They are simply word-jugglers. They are not held nearly so tight to...

Acyutānanda: Well, then, what's some of the things they invent?

Prajāpati: Well, one we were bringing up is that theology is a means that faithful men are coming to understand themselves, not that are approaching God. One approaches God within a community and within...

Prabhupāda: That a faithful man understands God, that we say. Then what is the basic principle of theology? Why this separate science has been established as "theology"? Logy means science.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: "No, you said theology. God is not a Christian God."

Prajāpati: But they're not interested. They only want to hear the Christian point of view. And for them, "Christian" doesn't mean Bible; it means their own...

Acyutānanda: That's Prabhupāda's first thing—what is God? Is it the Christian God? What is God? What is your definition of God? Is He a Christian God or pure?

Prabhupāda: No, the... The... First of all, this should be established, whether God can be Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God? Is God to be designated like that? God is one, so how there is one God? If Christian has got separate God, a Hindu has got separate god, Muslim has got separate God, then how God is one?

Prajāpati: Their answer would be: "We cannot talk about God. We can simply talk about the Christian tradition of God, or the..."

Prabhupāda: Now, again you come to the Christian God.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then... Either Christian tradition... Then it becomes bound up by the Christian ideas.

Prajāpati: And that is exactly the situation today.

Prabhupāda: But that is not God. Just like gold. Gold is everywhere gold. Because it is in Christian country, you cannot say, "It is Christian gold." And because it is in Muslim country, you cannot say, "It is Muslim gold." Gold is the world standard of money. The same gold, dispatched from America, can be accepted in India. Dispatched from India, it can be accepted in Palestine because it is gold. Everyone who knows what is gold, he'll accept it. So God should be like that. And therefore the name Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive"... When there is gold, either you be Christian, Muslim, Hindu—"Oh, here is a lump of gold. Can I possess it?" That is attraction. So as gold is all-attractive, similarly, God must be all-attractive. And that word is used as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. One who knows gold, he'll be attracted. Doesn't matter whether he's Hindu or Muslim, Christian, poor, rich man, black, white. It doesn't matter. Here is gold, and everyone... Just like in your country there was gold rush. Eh? In California? From all different parts of the world they came. So gold is gold for everyone. So now one should try to understand or check what is gold. That is required.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: But when you came to France, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you spoke at the Theology Club. About four years ago you came for a conference. They arranged a big meeting at the Theology Society in France, a world-wide society. And one thing I was... One thing I was considering. They must be interested because the Christians say that there is soul, and they say that there is God, so then wouldn't our question be: "What is the relationship of the soul to God?" They admit there is a soul. Every human being, they say, has a soul.

Prabhupāda: No. That, that is also beginning of understanding. But first, preliminary understanding should be that God is one. There cannot be Christian God. There cannot be Hindu God. There cannot be Muslim God. That is not complete idea of God. That is imperfect. Just like in Vedic literature, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti: (SB 1.2.11) three phases of understanding of the Absolute. First, beginning, is Brahman, then, further advanced, Paramātmā, then, final advancement, Bhagavān. Similarly, the final realization of God is the Supreme Person. And then we should seek (see?) who is that person. That is real theology.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Ravīndra-svarūpa: In the Bible they give twelve names for God.

Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, I know just the...

Prabhupāda: You cannot say, reject. They cannot reject Kṛṣṇa unless you present an alternative.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, here's the argument. Part of the thing I remember in the Judeo tradition, Judeo-Christian tradition, in the... Whenever we used to go to service and all that, they used to have in the prayer books... They would never write out the name of God because they say...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that means you do not know.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Viṣṇujana: Christians have such a name. They call Him Yahweh.

Acyutānanda: Yahweh.

Viṣṇujana: Yahweh means "I am that I am. No one is beyond Me."

Acyutānanda: Yahweh.

Viṣṇujana: They will say Yahweh is God.

Prabhupāda: No, Yahweh, what is...? That is the name?

Viṣṇujana: Name. "I am that..." It means in English, "I am that I am."

Prajāpati: Some people translate that as Jehovah.

Viṣṇujana: Jehovah.

Prajāpati: But it's the same word. In fact, everyone agrees they do not know what the real name is. Some say Yahweh; some say Jehovah. The Jewish tradition replaces completely and says Adonai, instead.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He may not say. But we have to take from the meaning. What is the meaning?

Viṣṇujana: "No one is beyond Me."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. "No one is beyond Me." Then he comes to our conclusion, all-attractive. This is... They come to our conclusion, all-attractive. Because if somebody is beyond Him, then he should be attractive. But if He's final attractive, then all-attractive, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Trivikrama: If Christ was the son of God, the good son, how is that he didn't, he never mentioned Kṛṣṇa by name? Sometimes they criticize us like that: "Why is there no mention of Kṛṣṇa in the Christian Bible?"

Prabhupāda: He might not have mentioned, but why there are twelve names in the Bible?

Pañcadraviḍa: That's Old Testament. That's not Christ...

Prabhupāda: The name is there.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: A very major thing happenned to the Christian tradition in about 400 A.D. Up until that time, as best our records are, Christianity was very much like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very much like our movement. But at that time it became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Constantine, and it took on many of the paraphernalia of the old Roman demigod worship, and at that time it became a whole...

Prabhupāda: Just to make it favorable for your government, for the government.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then deterioration began.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: He heard a voice, fell off his horse, and he was blinded, and his eyesight would only be restored when he would approach a certain man in Jerusalem who was part of the Christian fold, and when he approached that man then his sight would be returned.

Acyutānanda: This story...

Prabhupāda: Now, another question, that we say that God's name and God-all-powerful. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā: "In the name of God, all God's potencies are there." So have you got any name like that? That means if you chant that name, you get immediately contact with God.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: In India Christians say that Jesus Christ is God.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They're trying to substitute... In the beginning of the Bible it says that "In the beginning was the word, and the word was God." And modern-day translations, they have substituted the word "Christ" for "the word." So it says, "In the beginning was Christ, and Christ was God." So they're trying to make, they're trying in that way to make Jesus God. And that is the name, because they don't know what is that word.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prajāpati: We can understand this...

Prabhupāda: That is again another adulteration.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then? Where is Christian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are. We are the Christians.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they say then, "You can't do any of these things, so you have to accept Christ in your heart."

Acyutānanda: That was my challenge, that "We are doing them better than all of you, so you... That's..."

Prabhupāda: No, if you keep God or Christ within your heart, then your heart will be purified. That means you are cheating.

Trivikrama: Yeah.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yeah, that's what it boils down to.

Prabhupāda: You are all cheaters, not Christians, but cheaters. You do not keep in the heart Christ's name or God's name, but you keep your own ideas. Therefore you think it is impossible. Otherwise, your heart would have been cleansed.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Ravīndra-svarūpa: So why not start an authoritative group of Christians who chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, who study the Bible and read the Bhagavad-gītā?

Acyutānanda: We are.

Prabhupāda: We are all Christians.

Acyutānanda: Here we are.

Pañcadraviḍa: We already are Christians.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But they are seeing us... They don't accept that, though. If somebody was calling themselves Christians...

Prabhupāda: That... It is not possible that everyone will accept you. That is not possible.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (2): The books are what actually attracts them. It attracts their minds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got two process. One process is chanting. Another process: read books. That is also chanting.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: One argument that the Christians have... When we tell them that we accept Lord Jesus, so they say that "You haven't accepted Jesus into your heart." We say, "We're following the teachings of Jesus." And they say, "But you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart," that "You're not a follower of Jesus. And that's the lacking qualification."

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to convince them. (break) We may not keep the Christ in heart, but even you do not keep Christ by your dealings. You are simply disobeying the orders. Then how you can be a Christian?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Jesus says that in Matthew. He says that "Many will come to me and say, 'Lord, Lord,' that 'We cured the sick in your name, and we cast out demons in your name,' " and Jesus said that "When they come I will say, 'Get away from me. I know you not, for you failed to do the will of my Father.' " Even though they're claiming to be Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Many times, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've heard you say, when speaking to people, that "You don't have to give up your faith. You can remain a Christian or you can remain a Mohammedan. Simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you'll become purified." So the main point...

Prabhupāda: No, we say not only Hare Kṛṣṇa. "You chant the name of God. But if you have no name of God, then here is the name of God."

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yeah. So that if we can get Christians to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then...

Prabhupāda: That is all right. Anyone who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. It doesn't matter what he is.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamal-kṛṣṇa: The drain inspectors?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise—everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇam (SB 1.1.2). Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."

Trivikrama: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.

Pañcadraviḍa: Who was cheating?

Prabhupāda: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayapatāka: During the last war, the Christian Mission of Krishnanagar, they had many Italian priests also, but the government gave them permission to stay, although India was at war with Italians.

Prabhupāda: In the missionary consideration, they can do that.

Jayādvaita: What will be the position with the Chinese if the Russians and Americans fight?

Prabhupāda: Well I am not a politician. (laughter) China does not war, not want war. They want to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Develop.

Prabhupāda: Construct.

Rūpānuga: They're not ready.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not very much interested in war.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: Is that just up to our preaching?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will depend on your purified preaching activities. If you again become materially victimized, then you cannot do it. If you remain on the spiritual platform, if you try, then it will increase. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. As soon as there is any contemplation of sense gratification, then the spirit will be lost. Then instead of Christianity, it will be "Churchianity," officially going to the church, doing nothing, and gradually nobody will go.

Rūpānuga: Like the Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Christians... Now who are coming here, in so many temples? Nobody is coming. They have made it a business, "Oh, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthday, you come here." And somebody will come, collect some money, and then there is no business—go away.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If you want what is the price, he says the price is your eagerness. And that eagerness to obtain it, takes many millions of births. Why you want Kṛṣṇa? Just like the other day I said that if one has seen Kṛṣṇa, he will become mad after Kṛṣṇa. That is the sign. These boys are certified in their own country by the Christian priests that "These boys are our boys, they will never come into church, they are never interested about God, and now they are mad after God. What is this?" Because that is the price only to purchase Kṛṣṇa. To mad after Him. Where is Kṛṣṇa? He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ. Where You are? Where You are? Śrī-govardhana pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ. Are You under the valley of Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Yamunā? Where you are? Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure. That was their Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simply wondering where is Kṛṣṇa, where is Kṛṣṇa, where is Kṛṣṇa. Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. Madlike, vihvalau. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-go... This is, this price one takes, then you can get Kṛṣṇa, you can understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not so cheap, that anyone can comment on Kṛṣṇa, whimsically, and he becomes a devotee. That is not possible. That is going on. I can interpret in my own way. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam. (indistinct) Somebody is taking Kṛṣṇa is black, somebody is taking Kṛṣṇa as something else.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...that everyone is doing his own duty. Never mind if you are Christian or if you are a Muslim or Hindu, that, what is your duty, what is said in your scripture, you must do it. Not that "Because it is secular, I can do whatever I like."

Governor: Secular means I respect you, not only I am Hindu or do what I do...

Prabhupāda: Secular means impartial.(?)

Governor: But also not come in the way of a Muslim.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's... You remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian. You are acting like a śūdra, and you are advertising yourself as a brāhmaṇa. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. something," that is punishable. But you are quack. That's all right. You can take a certificate that you have got some experience. The registered medical practitioner, I think that is... But what is this, that you are proclaiming yourself as a... (chuckles) So character means a class of men there must be, maybe very few, but they are actually men of character. Just like I am teaching them no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is basic principle. Otherwise, where is his character? You are doing all nonsense, and still, you are proclaiming yourself as brāhmaṇa. This should be stopped. And a training college should be there how to make a real brāhmaṇa.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Recently we have shown the film and spoken in several Catholic schools in Melbourne. They have comparative religion classes, and they ask us to come to their high schools to teach comparative religion so the students can see what other religions think. Usually they...

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. All bogus. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo. Only religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Amogha: They think that if they sin it's all right, because man is imperfect. So they think we should believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Every animal is imperfect, but man—animal can become perfect. If he likes. So it is very important life.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities. They are also very amazed when they see your books. Sometimes we take ten or fifteen books-Bhagavad-gītā, and ten Śrīmad Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta—and we line them all across the front wall or desk, maybe fifteen books. And I begin by saying, "I'm sorry there's only a few minutes to talk, because our Bible is very big," and then I explain, "This is Bhagavad-gītā, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's sixty volumes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-twelve volumes." And they become very much amazed that this is our..., beginning of our Bible. (break) What can we say to Communists to attract them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect. We allow everyone to eat. Not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts, they should live comfortably and without any disturbance, they must get their food. That is our Communism. But where is your Communism? You are thinking of your countrymen only, or in your country also only for the human being, and you are sending other poor animals, because they cannot protest, to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest to the capitalists when they send you to the slaughterhouse? You are sending these poor animals to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest? You protest that the capitalist are slaughtering you. So, if you slaughter others, why should you be afraid of being slaughtered yourself? Is it all right?

Amogha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: But I'm just a common Christian. I'm following my authority. They say it's all right. The Pope.

Paramahaṁsa: He's the supreme authority. The Pope is eating meat.

Prabhupāda: That means from the supreme down to the rascal everyone is rascal. That proves it, that all of you are a set of rascaldom.

Paramahaṁsa: But the government doesn't charge anyone with crime for killing an animal.

Prabhupāda: Government means they are full of rascals. Government by the people. So you are all rascals, the government is also rascal. Your democracy means government by the people for the people. So all the people are rascals, beginning from the Pope down to the common man. Therefore the government is rascal.

Paramahaṁsa: But not all of us are Christians. Some of us are Muslims, and in the Koran Mohammed says that eating meat is all right. In fact it is required to be a good Muslim, to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: They spoke in the desert. What will they eat? But you are not in the desert. Meat-eating is a crude form of eating when people are uncivilized. When there is no other food, you cannot produce. But when you are civilized, when you learn how to produce other foods, why would you eat meat? How are you civilized?

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Compromise, yes. There was too much strain between Hindus and Muslims, so he wanted to make a compromise. Actually there was only Vedic culture all over the world. As the things deteriorated, new systems of religion came in. Either the Sikh religion or the Christian or this religion, Muslim religion. They are, what is called, deformed type of religion. Religion is that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). That is religion. These are later on deformed.

Gaṇeśa: So is that according to time, place and circumstance we must discriminate in our eating?

Prabhupāda: What?

Gaṇeśa: According to time, place and circumstance we must discriminate whether to eat meat, whether to eat the vegetables?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you must eat. But when good things are available, why should you eat bad things? You must be pacified.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: In Sydney there was one teacher in a school, a private school, for rich men's sons, very, very wealthy. And he is the head of general studies and the school chaplain. A Christian. One boy from the school became a devotee, although he still went to the school. And the discussion came up in class about what the Hare Kṛṣṇaś believe. So he invited us to come.

Prabhupāda: The clergyman?

Amogha: Yes, school chaplain, and he liked it so much. I remember he was taking notes, and he was smiling every time one point came up that he liked. So he asked us to come again the next week, and again, and then the next time we went through six classes in one day. For about two months he asked us again and again, and then to show the film. And he was always taking notes. He would say, "What was that again? Part and parcel?"

Prabhupāda: He is sincere.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Yes, he was very sincere. Then one day he came to the temple on Sunday because I invited him. He wanted to make sure, he wanted to find out the difference between us and Christianity. But he was convinced in the end that the main philosophy is the same point, the same purpose.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: And he ate a big plate of prasādam. He liked it very much. So he was saying that perhaps we can have some regular comparative religion course in the school, and when we show the students, tell them about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement as a study, about, as he calls it, our religion, so they can also come in a bus to the temple.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Amogha: The students will come in a bus and see how we chant and have some prasādam.

Prabhupāda: It is a good reception. So that is still going on?

Amogha: It hasn't started yet. This is the plan. But sometimes he hesitates, because he has doubts.

Prabhupāda: Superstition. That is superstition.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. Of course, it is very strong words. That Western people they are claiming very civilized, but I have got objection. Therefore I have come to the West. Because, for example, the animal-killing. The Western people are mostly Christians. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said that "Thou shall not kill." But the result was that two thousand years passed, but the people of the Western countries, they are still killing. So when they have accepted Christianity? What is your answer?

Carol: But the actual original scriptures aren't enacted in Western life.

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.

Prabhupāda: This is practical. You are maintaining huge slaughterhouses, regular killing. So, you took instruction from Christ, "Thou shall not kill." You first of all killed him, and then the killing process is going on among the animals, and declaring wars every now and then. So the killing business is going on regularly. In your regular life also. You are maintaining big, big slaughterhouses. Then when you accepted the instruction of Christ? That I want to know. What is that date?

Carol: Do you see any hope for the world? We seem to be moving towards destruction.

Prabhupāda: No, my... You just explain.

Amogha: He's asking you when did this civilization actually accept the teachings of Christ?

Carol: When have they? Not overall at all, only in small pockets. Never overall.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are claiming that you are Christian? Just like you are having cross. That is the sign that you killed Christ. The cross is the killing symbol of Christ.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: But it's not only Christian symbol...

Prabhupāda: But many, many priestly order, they carry the cross. Cross is the sign when Lord Jesus Christ was killed. Is it not?

Carol: It is, but that symbol is used in a lot of ways.

Prabhupāda: That means how you killed Lord Jesus Christ. That is the sign. That reminds you that you killed. You accuse the Jewish people "They killed," but you are also killing. Although you are claiming Christian. Therefore I want to know—you are a learned scholar—when you abided by the order of Lord Jesus Christ? That is my question. When?

Amogha: When did you abide by the orders of Jesus Christ?

Carol: When did I?

Prabhupāda: Every one of you, Western countries. And if you have abided by the order of Jesus Christ, then why you are systematically killing? The order is, "Thou shall not kill."

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: It reminds me of the Gītā, you know? Where Arjuna is on the battlefield about to commit an organized sort of killing against his relatives.

Prabhupāda: No, two thousand years passed, but you could not accept the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. And you are all claiming that you are Christian. When did you accept Christianity? That is my question. Because you have disobeyed the order of Christ. So when did you accept? Two thousand years passed. Hmm? Who will answer this question?

Jayadharma: Never.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayadharma: They never accepted.

Carol: Hmm. What is the main part of your philosophy? Is it based on the Vedānta school?

Prabhupāda: No. This is no question of philosophy. You could not accept the simple instruction. Then where is the question of philosophy?

Carol: The question of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot understand the principles of life and morality, Jesus Christ's instruction that "Thou shall not kill."

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: And in the record album he has given this picture. So you are intelligent girl, you study about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will benefit you. The anthropology you may get some degree, adoration. What is the benefit? Jaya. (Carol leaves) They enquire why I have come to the West. If I enquire that two thousand year ago you have been taught that "Thou shall not kill," and your business is only to kill. I have come to enquire from you, "What is your answer?" How you have become civilized, that you cannot accept one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are declaring yourself as Christian and civilized. This is my question. Answer it. In two thousand years, first of all you began killing Christ. Never mind, still, two thousand years past, you could not stop killing? You could not accept the first instruction. What kind of civilized man?

Jayadharma: Sometimes they say, Prabhupāda, that Jesus meant just...

Prabhupāda: Meant?

Jayadharma: ...just human beings.

Prabhupāda: All right. That means you are killer of human beings. THat means, in the beginning, you are all killers of human beings. And therefore you killed Jesus Christ. That is not very good qualification. Killer of human being... He said "Thou shall not kill." Where he says that "Thou shall not kill human beings"? That is your interpretation.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?

Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?

Śrutakīrti: That was actually the Ten Commandments. That was given by God.

Gaṇeśa: Given to Moses.

Śrutakīrti: That was given to Moses by God. The Ten Commandments.

Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?

Śrutakīrti: Well, Christ enforced it.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: One thing about the Christian religion is that through the last two thousand years, Christ's original teachings may have been good teachings, may have been potent preaching, but because there were no potent preachers to carry on the preaching, therefore the whole thing has been lost. But if there are potent preachers to continue reestablishing and establishing the principles,...

Prabhupāda: So how you'll find, if everything is now changed? Where you will get the right information?

Paramahaṁsa: That's the problem. That's why there are so many hundreds of branches of Christianity, literally hundreds. So many divisions of Christianity. Some people accept this, some people accept this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: The Christians openly admit that the Bible has been changed, but they also have a lot of doubt about our scripture.

Prabhupāda: No, even they doubt, the Christian religion is now dead. That we see practically. So many churches are not working. Nobody comes there. Nobody comes.

Paramahaṁsa: As they have seen that their scripture has been changed, they also have a very strong doubt about our scripture. They say "Well, yours in even older than ours," so somewhere along the line they say it must have been changed.

Prabhupāda: You say, but those who are the followers of the authorities, they do not say. You are outsider. You say it may be. It may not be, but you have no authority. You are simply taking a hypothesis, "it may be." But those who actually are following, they do not say. What about this? Whose version is more important? Your or theirs? You are outsider. You are simply suggesting because you had a bad experience. But one who has no such experience, why should he follow your advice?

Paramahaṁsa: Actually if anyone looks at Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, presented by yourself, then they can logically see that it is perfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got our argument, logic, everything. Why should we blindly follow?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who takes milk... Everyone takes milk. The cow is the mother. Mother gives milk. And mother, when she cannot supply milk, mother should be cut up. Is that a very good philosophy? Is it human philosophy? What is the answer? But if you say that somebody wants to, say in your country majority they want to eat meat. So, if you put that argument, then you can eat some lower animals. You can eat the pigs. You are eating also, pigs. Not in a massive scale. Massive scale—if you are Christian you should follow your religious scripture: "Thou shall not kill!" This should be the principle. But if you are a rākṣasa, if you want to eat meat, then at least don't kill the cows. You can eat other, insignificant animals. You are eating also. You are eating everything. Except the moving cars, you are eating all the moving animals. The car also moves, but you cannot eat. Otherwise you are killing everything. You have become so civilized rascal that your business is to kill other animals and eat. You are so civilized. You are still in the crude form of human being, just like in the jungles, the aborigines, the Africans, they do not know how to develop civilization—crude methods, eating the animals. That also, they are not so uncivilized that they keep slaughterhouses.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says something, and they will misinterpret. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "No, no, it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Just see how misleading these rascals. Why you should interpret upon Kṛṣṇa's word? If you have got your own philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā? This is their cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gītā for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they'll never agree to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They'll never agree. The other day I was there in Kurukṣetra. They have got their own plan-mānava-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom. You just surrender unto Me." That they will not do. Except this, everything which is going on in the name of religion, that is cheating. Everyone is misinterpret... Just like Christians, they have misinterpreted: "Kill means murder. It is meant for man." That means they are making their own lusty desires fulfilled in the name of Bible, that's all. Everyone is doing like that. They are changing. Mass opinion is now homosex. They are passing abortion. They are passing... What is this? This is their business. For fulfillment of their lusty desires and greediness, they are bringing the authority of Bible, Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on in the name of religion.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Amogha: Another thing they do in the churches is they have those bingo games. You were saying in one lecture we shouldn't play bingo. That's very popular. Practically all of the Catholic... Is that Catholic churches?

Gaṇeśa: All Christian. Jesus himself, he kicked the moneylenders out of the temple.

Amogha: I was talking to one Buddhist monk, and I asked him, "What is your actual practice? What is your daily schedule?" And he said, "Well, we get up around sunrise and go out with our begging bowls and fill it up and then come back at about 11:00 to the temple. And then we sit down and eat everything in the begging bowl. And then we take rest." I said, "What about the rest of the day?" And he said, "Well, that's all free, open time."

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are distributing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you explain that it's best to start from the beginning and go gradually. So...

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere you can see.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): In the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna asks...

Prabhupāda: No, you can fall down unconsciously. But if you fall consciously, that is cheating. I do not want. I am trying to keep myself steady, but still, if I fall, that is excused. But if you purposely... Just like the Christian atonement. They go to the church and admit, "Yes, I have done these sinful activities, so I pay you something. Excuse it." That is not sincerity. And again, next week, he does the same thing. That is not sincerity.

Paramahaṁsa: What would an example of unconscious falldown be?

Prabhupāda: Unconscious falldown, that... Suppose I am prone to... I was very much fond of smoking, but I have given up. So in a society there is smoking, so I become induced. He offers me cigarette, and unconsciously I smoke. Then I must repent, "Oh, what I have done?" That is excused. But if I secretly smoke and outwardly I show I am a devotee, then what is this? This is cheating.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is... Unwillingly, when it is done, that is excused. And willingly, when it is done, it is cheating. That in your America there was a Moral Rearmament Movement. So it flourished for some days. Their process was admit, admission of sinful activities, that Christian method. "So I will admit. That's all. Again I do. 'Yes, I have done this.' Then my all reaction is gone. Then again I do it." That is described in the Bhāgavata, kuñjara-śaucavat, the elephant, elephant's cleanliness. Elephants cleanse very nicely in the water, and as soon as come on the land, they will take dust and throw, immediately. So what is the use of cleansing? Kuñjara-śaucavat. You cleanse; again you become unclean. Then what is the use of cleaning?

Paramahaṁsa: Many devotees wish... Now they have become devotees and have had so much bad training, they wish that they could have gone to Gurukula so they would not be so mistrained.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, one boy in Sydney, he has been a devotee for a few years, three or four years, but now he has fallen away because of lusty association, I suppose, or bad association. So is this unwilling or willing, because he has become attracted to women again?

Prabhupāda: That is one of the defects, our society, that women are there, and one falls victim of these women. And it is not possible to keep the society strictly for men. That is also not possible. But actually no woman should live in the temple.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Christians have one place for the women and another place for the men. But we find the women can't organize themselves very well, so it is difficult to organize something like that also.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if we do not give up lusty desires, either we keep separately or together they fall down in the... All these nuns, they are all complicated, although they live separately. There was a convent school in Calcutta, and it was detected that the head minister was supplying women outside for business. Now one brahmacārīṇi āśrama is started. This means that the authority of this āśrama, they supply young women to rich, richer class, and they pay money. Business is going on.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So we are asking, "Chant the holy name of God." So if you are Roman Catholic...

Justin Murphy: Any man's God.

Prabhupāda: Any man's God. God is one. God cannot be two. But we are thinking...

Justin Murphy: Roman Catholics don't agree with you on that, do they? Roman Catholics have their own God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no.

Justin Murphy: And this is one of the problems. It's nowhere near as simple as, I am sure, as you suggest, and I wish it were.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is simple. It is simple.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: The Roman Catholics are a jealous people. Roman Catholics are jealous religious people. They refuse even still to accept, for example, that Anglicans pray in the same way as they do. They refuse to accept that Anglicans pray as well as they do.

Prabhupāda: No, one thing is that may be Anglican, may be Roman Catholics, may be Christian, may be Hindu or Muslim or anyone. Whether they have God in their conception of religion or not. Do they have God or no God?

Justin Murphy: Well they all have. They must have, to be a religion.

Prabhupāda: So I am asking that "You chant the holy name of God. If you have God, you chant the holy name of that God." I don't say that "You chant the holy name of my God." You chant the holy name of your God. God is one. Just like water. Somebody says "water," somebody says "pāni," somebody says "jala," but the end is, the aim is, water. Similarly, God... I may say "Kṛṣṇa," you may say "Jehovah," the Muslims may say "Allah," or others may say something else, but the aim is God.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But I want to live. There are... India, eighty percent people, they are vegetarian. They are living very nicely. They are eating sufficient food grain and fruits and milk and milk product. God has given us so many. So why should we maintain slaughterhouse, killing other animals? So a first-class man will not do that. First-class man will think that "I want to eat something to keep myself fit. If by natural products I can keep myself fit, why shall I kill another animal?" And every religion teaches that. Now take in your Christian religion. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouse. So this is the condition of the society. How you can become happy? You are violating the rules and regulation of religion and God. You cannot become... Nature will disturb in so many ways. That is nature's business.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Mother: What do you think about Hebrew religion?

Prabhupāda: Well, there cannot be Hebrew religion, Christian religion, Hindu... Religion is one. Religion means God's rules. So God is one. So if you are this or that, you can manufacture so many ways, but God's ruling is one, that "You surrender to Me." That's all.

Mother: So we all believe in the one God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is one. God cannot be two. Then He is not God. There cannot be two Gods. God is one.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: God is the Supreme Truth. So Supreme Truth cannot be Hebrew truth, Christian truth, Hindu truth. Truth is truth. Just like gold. Because gold is found in America, nobody says, "It is American gold." It is gold. So similarly, God is one. He is for Hebrew, He is for Hindu, He is for Muslim, He is for everyone. Simply we have to know what is God. So if you try to understand through Hebrew religion, that's all right. But if you come to know what is God, that is all right. Otherwise useless. If you cannot understand what is God, then Hebrew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these different names, they are useless. And if you understand God, then whatever method it is, it is all good.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): God created the earth, in the Bible. God started on a Monday. He created the earth. It says in the Bible in the Old Testament that it took Him seven days, or six days, and on the seventh day He rested. But still there is some dispute whether He started on a Sunday or a Monday. So the Jewish, the Hebrews, they hold the Sabbath on a Saturday, and the Christians and the Catholics they have the Sabbath on the Sunday. But on the seventh day God rested after creating the heavens and the earths.

Śrutakīrti: It was always very bad to engage in any type of work on the Sabbath day. It was used only to glorify the Lord.

Paramahaṁsa: For fishing.

Amogha: Not any more. Now the post office is closed on Saturday and open all day on Sunday in Perth.

Prabhupāda: They have changed?

Amogha: Yes. They are open on the Sabbath.

Prabhupāda: My point is: if the moon is the first planet nearer, why they did not start Monday? If the sun is after, then Sunday. This is the proof that first sun, then moon, not that first moon and then sun. Hm? That is the description in the Bhāgavatam. One after another, one after another. Sixteen thousand, sixteen hundred thousand miles apart. First of all sun, then moon, then, what is called? Mars. You have seen it.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Any religion. Christian religion does not allow illicit sex. No adultery.

Guest (2): Any religious principles?

Prabhupāda: This is religious principle. In the animal kingdom there is no marriage, but in the human society—may be Christian, may be Hindu, may be Muslim—there is marriage system. That is religious system.

Guest (2): Is polygamy illicit?

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (2): Not illicit. But it is...

Prabhupāda: Polygamy means if it is married. Just like in the Vedic society they used to marry many wives. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. And He maintained them sixteen thousand palaces. And He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇas. So that is a different thing; He is God. But if you can maintain each and every wife, you can marry more than one wife. But if you are unable to maintain, that is illicit. All the kṣatriya kings, they used to marry more than one wife. Still in India, the kṣatriyas, kings, they have more than one wife. But they maintain very nicely.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is smaraṇam. Memorizing. Thinking of God's activities.

Jesuit: And, er, now in mysticism, Christian mysticism, Western mysticism, we have, say, the seven castles of St. Theresa of Avila, and we have a process of contemplation which we call infused, which God gives. Ordinary prayer, which anybody is able to make. Theresa would speak about the three castles, the first three castles.

Prabhupāda: Three castle?

Jesuit: Mm. In her book, Interior Mansions. But the real mystic prayer, well, is not given to everybody. Do you have... Do these men get trained in mystic prayer, contemplation?

Prabhupāda: Mystic prayer means to think of God's activities. So that is smaraṇam.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Good. Do you... In Christianity we have the trinity, the Father, Son and the relationship of love between them which we call three persons in one God...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: In your understanding of God...

Prabhupāda: God, God and His love towards us... Because we are sons of God, therefore Father has natural love for sons, therefore God comes. God sends His son or representative to canvass that "You come to God, you'll be happy there."

Jesuit: Who was the son He sent?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Just like Jesus, we say "son of God." So...

Jesuit: That's the second person made man, become human, becomes a man.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is very important, but He is son, a very important son. Just like father may have many sons, but one of them may be very important, very good assistant to the father so Christ is like that. He is son of God, very important, He's helping God coming down to reclaim these fallen souls that "Come to God, why you are suffering here?" Son, He's very faithful and important son. But the others, they are also sons, but they have forgotten God. Therefore they are suffering. So sometimes He sends His son or His devotee and sometimes He comes Himself, that is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life, you also trained up, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.

Jesuit: That's true. We don't say that sex is bad.

Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?

Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.

Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.

Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...

Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now why you do not accept? In the Christian religion there is unmarried life.

Jesuit: Married life is a good life. The use of sex is good.

Prabhupāda: Good?

Jesuit: Eating is good. If it's abused it's bad.

Prabhupāda: No. Married life is good, that if you follow the rules and regulations.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think in Christian there are beads also.

Jesuit: I saw them in the picture, they had'em, and I didn't know what it was.

Prabhupāda: This is covering of the beads because we put here, there may be some dust. So to show respect to the beads, we keep it covered. We do not touch on the floor. It is awe and veneration.

Jesuit: Well, I have kept you long enough. I...

Prabhupāda: No, you can keep me engaged whole day and night, (laughter) provided you have got time. We are meant for this purpose. If anyone can understand God consciousness, that is a great profit for us. Now our appeal is to everyone, every religious sect, that people are becoming godless generally at the present moment. So we should make combined effort to revive their God consciousness. Otherwise it is doomed. And there is no question of Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God. God is one. So there should be no difference between the system. According to the time and circumstances, there may be little difference, but really if we can understand God, either through Christianity or through Hinduism or Muslim, that is our profit. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion, following which, one becomes a lover of God". You become a lover of God. That we want to see. It doesn't matter whether you go through Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: And it's good that, I think, we are coming more to understand that. And I think you see a lot of young people who really are longing for some form of contemplation and prayer. That is why you get followers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, these boys they are coming from your Christian group, Jewish group, but they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One priest in Boston, he issued one pamphlet that "These boys are our boys, and before this movement, they didn't care to come to the church. And now they are mad after God. How is it? The same boys." So indirectly he accepted this process as easier to understand God. And actually it is easier. What do they do? They don't go to the forest, or meditate, or make any very austere, what is called, penances. They simply chant in the morning and dance in ecstasy and then eat sumptuously. That's all. And now they have given up everything. Now, you bribe them, "You eat meat." They will never eat. They will not drink tea even. The method is... The American government they spent lots of money for stopping this addiction to drugs. And these boys, as soon as they come to me, they give up. Ask them what money I have bribed them. You can ask how they have left it.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: It satisfies the longing in the heart one has for God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can ask them. They will inform, that nobody of them, either Hindu or Christian, Indian... They are coming all from Christian group or Jewish group. So they are all educated boys. So there is no question of bluffing them. Young boys, they can earn money like anything, especially in America. But they have given everything. They are very respectable father's son. But they have given up...

Jesuit: The thing is like Augustine said, that "The heart is restless until it rests in You, our God." And I think that's...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't teach them that I am God. I never taught. I always teach them I am servant of God, you are also servant. And they accept it. Actually that is our position. This is bluff. When somebody says "I am God," that is bluff, cheating. We protest very vehemently against the declaration that "I am God." No. Nobody can become God. God is one.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So people, either through Christianity or through any process, they must come to the understanding platform where we can understand what is God and how to love Him. That is required. Otherwise this human civilization will be spoiled.

Jesuit: And the great truth also that God loves every one of us.

Prabhupāda: God loves. That is natural, but you do not love, I do not love. That is the difficulty. Father loves the son; that is natural. But when the son does not love father that is a very precarious condition.

Jesuit: Good. Well, thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, jaya.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee: 400,000.

Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Well, we are speaking of religion. There is no question of "other religion," "your religion," "my religion." We are speaking of God. God is God. Just like gold is gold. Because it is in the hand of a Christian, you cannot say that "It is Christian gold." The gold is gold.

Journalist: But do you accept the validity of other religion?

Prabhupāda: Validity... Any religion which is seeking after God, that is valid. If any religion does not obey God, does not know God, that is cheating. That is not religion. Yes.

Journalist: How would you say this godlessness is...

Prabhupāda: Godlessness is one does not know what is God. And just like you know me. You have come to me. You know I am a person, I am talking, I have written so many books. This is knowing me. Similarly, one must know what is God, what is His feature, what does He do, what does He teach, what law He gives. This is knowing God. Simply to understand, "Oh, well, that is God. Let Him remain at His place, and let me do whatever I like," that is not understanding of God. You must know God just like you must know your father. If you are interested with your father's property, then you must know your father, who is your father.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful, you are killing all animals. Your Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing?

Journalist: Yes. How many followers do you have throughout the world now?

Prabhupāda: No, throughout the world, in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. In the outside India we have got about ten to twelve thousand dedicated followers.

Journalist: Do you mean every, the whole of India is Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they know what is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is the way. It is going on. So nāsau munir yasya... So if I take the opinion of one muni and another muni, another muni, then where is the real view? Therefore it is said mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, what they have done, we have to follow that. So our principle is that, that we are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mahājana, a great personality. Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. You follow some mahājana, great personality. Don't take opinion, this man, that man, this man, this man. Then you will be bewildered. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So you have to follow one great personality, ācārya. That is also recommended in the Bhā... ācāryopāsanam, following the ācārya. So we have got recognized ācārya, just like you said, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Or Śaṅkarācārya even. You follow one ācārya, like Christians, they follow Christ, ācārya.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Director: What you people say what ideal to you is not ideal to somebody else?

Prabhupāda: I am giving the example ideal character.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Tiny percentage. Just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. In percentage the moon is nothing. If we take percentage of the stars, the moon is nothing. But moon is important than all the nonsense stars. (laughter) But if you take percentage, he has no percentage vote. But because he is moon, he is important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. What is the use of taking percentage of the stars in the presence of moon? Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. One ideal man. Just like in Christian world, one ideal Lord Jesus Christ.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: And they had a lot of difficulty. This is one of the things that I imagine, you know, the story that the Catholic Church, Roman Catholic Church owned this property. And it was almost by devious means that it was acquired.

Prabhupāda: They did not want to give us?

Guest 1: He didn't want to sell direct, like that. Because that beautiful building across there, I think you saw photos...

Amogha: The convent. Śrīla Prabhupāda went through the convent.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Guest 1: They, we found out or the suggestion was... Because there were little power groups in that church that possibly the senior people don't know about, but they objected for some reason, which is very hard to understand.

Prabhupāda: In London we wanted to purchase one church that was not working. In London. But when we approached that priest, the in-charge, not directly to me but one of my disciples, he informed him that "I shall better set fire in this church. Still, I shall not give to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee 2: Śrīla Prabhupāda, most of the people in the western world are Christians and they say the cow has no soul.

Prabhupāda: This is not the question of Christian or western. This is the disease of the whole world. It is not that only the westerners are accused, not the others. No, it is... We don't say like that. Everyone... This is the influence of this Kali-yuga.

Australian devotee 2: They feel justified in killing because they say the animal has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see how fool they are. Therefore we simply say these are rascals. They have not even the common sense of an uneducated man. And they are scientist. Why there is no soul? What is the proof? What is their argument? Why they say there is no soul? What is the argument?

Australian devotee 2: Because it says in the Bible that until one accepts Jesus Christ one has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said that animal has no soul? Has he said like that? Has he said?

Australian devotee 2: He says that one must be born again.

Prabhupāda: Never he can say like that. He is not such a fool. He cannot say that.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Guest (1): What kind of a sect are you?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Guest (1): Christian what?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious, just tell him.

Bali-mardana: Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (1): Oh.

Prabhupāda: God conscious.

Guest (1): Oh. What country are you from?

Prabhupāda: India.

Guest (1): India. Well, I'll tell you. It's sort of interesting. I hope you don't feel any affront. And what are you doing now, sort of a meditation?

Prabhupāda: We are chanting. Chanting the holy name of God.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But I don't think Christians believe.

Guest (1): So I know you people are good, just as good as I am. Bless you all, and I wish I and all of us were better.

Prabhupāda: Do you think Christians believe in the Ten Commandments?

Guest (1): We think we do, I guess, but we don't practice it, you know.

Prabhupāda: Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." So why they are killing?

Guest (1): Yes, you're right. But, you know, up the road someplace maybe there's an answer.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest (1): Maybe up the road there's an answer someplace, but we're too slow in arriving there.

Prabhupāda: There is no answer. The Lord says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing? Who is a Christian? If you don't obey the order of Christ, how you become a Christian? You cannot say that you are Christian if you disobey the order of Christ.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. Very good. (man departs)

Devotee: Should we tell all Christians like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? That they're killing?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are killing actually. They are maintaining slaughterhouse. What kind of Christian they are, I do not know.

Gurukṛpa: He admitted it, that they say it, but they really don't follow it.

Prabhupāda: If you don't follow the Christian principles, then how you are a Christian? Just to make a show-bottle. They don't believe in next life, don't believe in the Ten Commandments. Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Christ. This is the followers. The instruction is "Thou shall not kill," but they said, "First of all let us kill you. Then we shall follow your instruction." This is the...

Gurukṛpa: "That's all right, though. We have been saved. We have been saved by Christ. We have accepted the baptism, so we are saved."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the use of their church and preaching?

Devotee: Well, we want to tell the others so they can also be saved.

Prabhupāda: No, the Christian churches, all the priests, they eat meat. They're supporting everything, homosex, everything, man to man marriage.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...fallen from their original culture. Still, we have seen, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa conscious festival, thousands and thousands of men... That we have experienced.

Gurukṛpa: But in India it seems that no matter what you tell them, they don't change their ways. They have their...

Prabhupāda: No, they believe in Kṛṣṇa, "He is God." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That they believe in.

Śrutakīrti: But that's what the Christians say. "We believe in Christ," but they don't follow.

Prabhupāda: They follow Him. In India they still. Majority follow. The non-followers are minority. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: All nonsense. They are professing I am Christian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, but they are enemies, one another. So where is their religion? Just see, common sense. Even the animals, amongst themselves, they do not say "Keep out." Sit down together. They sit down actually. The birds, beasts of the same position, they keep together. Birds of the same feather flock... But human being, having, professing so many religions-enemies. This is their civilization. They discover better religion, but enemies to the animal, to the man, everyone. Therefore Bhāgavata religion is meant for persons who are not enemies. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). That is religion. We have come to here from India not as enemy but as friend, to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is dharma. Although politically they are enemies-India is thinking "America is my enemy," or America is thinking "India is my enemy"—we do not think like that. We go everywhere, take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, be happy. This is our business. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. "Private. Keep out."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is going on. When I meet you I say, "Yes sir." You say, "Yes sir." That is all right. That is social etiquette. But real unity is on the platform of spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita, he is sama-darśina. So paṇḍitāḥ means

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

"A very learned brāhmaṇa and a dog and an elephant, a cow, a caṇḍāla—all of them, to a paṇḍita, really learned person, sama-darśinaḥ." You see? So now how a learned scholar brāhmaṇa and a dog can be seen on equal level? But it can be seen. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). It is on the spiritual platform, that every one of us is spirit soul. We are, by different karma, we are covered with different material dress. A dog is also a soul, and a learned brāhmaṇa is also a soul. But he is covered with different body, and he is covered with different body. So one who does not see the body, he can see on the same level. But one who sees the body, he cannot see. This is the basic principle of equality. I am seeing you are Sikh, you are seeing I am Hindu, he is seeing he is Christian, he is Mohammedan, and so on, so on. And nobody is seeing that nobody is brāhmaṇa. Nobody is seeing nobody is Hindu, nobody is Christian—he is pure soul. So that vision, unless one attains, how there can be equality? There is no possibility.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: No, no, but people do not understand why we are like this, why they wear like this. They don't get a chance to explain. At Interreligious Council, I am a member. They never knew. They think we are the most weird people from the Mars perhaps. They don't understand a bit. And now our legal services are helping them, and all sorts of things have happened, and they are trying to understand. And when the last president left the office, he said, in his words of departure, he said, "I am only limited by the Christ. I never understood anything else. But I do feel from that limit that God is unlimited and it is in everybody." Asking a fanatic Christian to make that statement to the general assembly, it took us about two years.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You find so many fanatics. How you will unite them?

Yogi Bhajan: Gradually, one by one, one by one, they will understand. Love is the winning point. That's why they don't understand. When they find love from you, they will find love from me, they will love from people, they will love from everybody else. You know, you can take a mango stick and beat somebody, but you can take mango off it and eat. Effort has to be made somehow. And now...

Prabhupāda: Effort is being made, but the platform, the world where you are staying, that effort is very difficult to fulfill.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But one thing is, just like you said some Christian priests?

Yogi Bhajan: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That "I realize that one, God is one." So if God is one and every one of us after God, then why there is disagreement?

Yogi Bhajan: Well, those... Everybody has limited egos, so we understand that.

Prabhupāda: No, we should... The conference should be made that if there is God and God is one, then who is that God? What is His characteristic? That should be discussed.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that every, at least, religious sect... I don't say others, nonreligious or agnostic. There are Christian, Mohammedan, Hindu, Sikhs, or any religious system, they have accepted that there is God, Supreme Truth.

Yogi Bhajan: No, there is one fundamental thing which this movement may not know. In Dasan Grantha, Guru Govind Singh wrote down Kṛṣṇa avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Avatāra...

Yogi Bhajan: Kṛṣṇa avatāra is in his own poetry. It is about Lord Kṛṣṇa. If somebody of these people who know Sanskrit and who know guru-mukhi can translate that part...

Prabhupāda: No, translate or not translate, we have already accept Kṛṣṇa God. So if Guru Nanak has described Him as God, that's all right. Then if Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by Guru Nanak, and Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by us, why not put this God, one God?

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah. One God is all right. That everybody will agree. But everybody...

Prabhupāda: That one God, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the same, I am the one God, that Supreme Lord."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: We have been training them to, how to acquire the brāhmaṇa qualification. It doesn't matter whether he is coming from Christian family or Mohammedan family, this... No. Just like if you train one how to become engineer, it doesn't matter from which family he comes. It doesn't matter. Any family, he can come. He can be trained how to speak truthfulness. Satyam. What is that? So...

Devotee: The verse is...

Prabhupāda: Satya śama damaḥ titikṣa. You don't find?

Devotee: I thought it was the verse about the qualities of a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, what is that?

Devotee: "Peacefulness, self..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the Sanskrit verse?

Devotee: The one I have is text forty-two of Chapter Eighteen, but I don't think that's the one you're quoting from.

Prabhupāda: What is the verse? You cannot read?

Devotee: Śamo damas tapaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Ah, śamo damaḥ, that's it.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-karma svabhāva... this is first-class man. Śamaḥ. Śamaḥ means controlling the sense or controlling the mind. And damaḥ, controlling the sense. Now, if either you may be Hindu, Muslim, Christian... Now, if I say, "Please come here. Learn this thing, how to control the mind, how to control the senses," so who will object to it? So if anyone is trained up, it doesn't matter from which sect, which family he is coming, if he has learned how to control the mind, how control the senses, then he becomes first-class man. So we have got everything already spoken by God. If we accept it, then there is unity. But we don't accept, we manufacture something. That is the difficulty.

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, but let us agree to confer...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your...

Yogi Bhajan: There will be difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Our difficulty is that we don't agree. If I say, "Come here. Be educated," and if you don't agree, "No, no. I don't want," then how you can be educated? One must agree what God says. They will say, "I believe. We believe." What is the "I believe, we believe"? If you want to become first-class man, then this is the formula: Control your mind, control your senses, be fully in knowledge. Practically apply knowledge in life. So this is first class. Then the second-class men, you see, what is that? Kṣatriya.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So why he does not teach his disciple, followers?

Yogi Bhajan: He teaches, he teaches, he teaches. He's a very good man. And there are other ācāryas and Śaṅkarācārya Math and other people are coming. We have the list in Los Angeles, about sixty who have accepted to come. Then from the Judeo-Christian thoughtway(?) people are participating. And then...

Prabhupāda: No, they will come and they will go away, that's all.

Yogi Bhajan: No, understand...

Prabhupāda: There will be... There will be no understanding. I know that. There will be no understanding. You can write it down in your notebook. They will come, and they will say, and they will go away, that's all. I have dealt with all these men very nicely. You see?

Yogi Bhajan: I understand the pain, but still...

Prabhupāda: And still you may go on, taking this pain.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: ...system of having more than one wife, that a holy person or religious man had the duty to take on and give protection to more than one woman because there weren't enough righteous men and there were more women that needed protection than there were righteous men. So if there was a righteous man, it was his duty to protect more than one wife. But nowadays I think they are having some trouble keeping that in the United States. That is one thing the Christians became very... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...preach.

Devotee: Yes, that's... (break)

Ambarīṣa: Bali and I were discussing that the other day. Bali-mardana and I. Maybe when I come back here to live, maybe after Christmas, he and I, we'll see if we can work out... He knows some people that are in the movie business.

Siddha-svarūpa: Which actors?

Prabhupāda: Actors, we shall play. They haven't got to pay for us.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Upendra: ...Protestant work ethic. Protestant work ethics. The western culture has developed because of that work ethic based on, "You work hard and go to church." "Work hard and believe in God," this is the advancement, why western culture is..., is one theory why it's...

Prabhupāda: Why shall I believe in God? What is the benefit? Work hard... Now, of course, I shall work hard; I will get money. That's all right. Why shall I believe in God?

Śrutakīrti: Because if you work hard and believe in God then He'll save you at death. By working hard, then you'll be saved.

Prabhupāda: That's what the Communists say. They do not believe in God. So?

Harikeśa: Believing in God makes it all worthwhile. It makes you feel better while you're working hard.

Prabhupāda: Those who are atheists, they are also working hard. They are feeling nice by drinking. Why shall I believe in God? Let me drink.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Why shall I believe in God? Sense gratification is there. Why shall I believe in God?

Upendra: There has to be a certain amount of self-respect that the Christians give the people...

Prabhupāda: Nobody respects. Nowadays, if somebody is religious, he is thought of as a fool. He's not...

Siddha-svarūpa: Actually, because what you're saying is right, people are going away from religion. There is no use for it anymore.

Prabhupāda: No religion. No, they do not know what is the meaning of religion. Therefore they create some religious system. They create: "Let me create something. After all, it is bluffing. So if I can..." Just like this, from India there are so many come. Here also there are many. They create some. It is... After all, it is bluffing. "So let me create something." Real business is to bluff and take money.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: He offered that. He said, "All the other religions, they have their... We have certain plots for them, and there is a church for Catholic, a church for Protestant, a church for Bahai."

Prabhupāda: No, no, take anywhere they give land. Yes. That will be recognition. We don't mind for the land, but the government has given land means recognized. That is wanted.

Brahmānanda: Oh yes, yes. (break) One of the African devotees was explaining to the vice-president that verse, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Brahmānanda: And he was explaining it to him from Bhagavad-gītā. And the vice-president he asked, "Who has given you this knowledge?"

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whenever we meet the Christians, they always say that "It doesn't matter because Jesus came to save us from our sins. So now it doesn't matter because we're saved."

Prabhupāda: Then Jesus is a fool, and he has taken contract to suffer, and these people are free to commit sin.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Jesus actually said...

Prabhupāda: And they are so clever that they can make God's son also fool. Over-clever.

Dharmādhyakṣa: (break) ...always said, "Your sins are forgiven you, go and sin no more." He always gave that injunction, "Go and sin no more." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is no description of sins in Bible? What are the sins?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killing, adultery, stealing. They mention it.

Jayatīrtha: There are Ten Commandments.

Prabhupāda: That is.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Berkeley there's this one demon, so-called Christian, and every day he comes out and he stands behind us with a big sign that "You will not achieve anything by your mantras and meditation." And he calls us idol worshipers. And now he writing these big signs, "Don't chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with them." He chanting... He's writing, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and he's telling... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You charge, "Why you are chanting?" (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...day he stands behind us for two hours to three hours of kīrtana. He's becoming one of our men now. (laughter) (break)

Revatīnandana: ...used to do that but he never came around. He used to be out there every day in Los Angeles for years.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Prabhupāda? The father of the H-bomb, the man who developed the H-bomb, he retired a week ago, and he said he was very sad that the young people were becoming disgusted with science nowadays, and all the young scientists, they are not as good as the old scientists. They have no desire any more really.

Revatīnandana: Edward Teller?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. Teller retired.

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Dharmādhyakṣa: His name is Edward Teller.

Prabhupāda: So what he is?

Revatīnandana: He's famous for inventing the H-bomb. He invented the hydrogen bomb.

Revatīnandana: Hydrogen bomb. He was the main inventor.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Occupying the churches?

Jayatīrtha: The Catholic churches.

Brahmānanda: They go on strike. They go there and they won't go out.

Prabhupāda: That is called Gandhi's policy.

Brahmānanda: Yes, gherao, or something like that.

Prabhupāda: It is called satyagraha.

Jayatīrtha: They are trying to get the Catholic church to support their demands.

Prabhupāda: That means Catholic church is supposed to support these prostitutes?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Well, actually, in France there is another now, a leading church official, a bishop. He was found. He died in the...

Prabhupāda: Prostitute's house.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. John Mize: The question that bothers me in part is then why would the soul... Because I understand your conception that the soul is part of the spiritual sky originally or part of God, and it somehow falls out of this blissful condition due to pride, much like the Christian thesis that the devil fell out of heaven due to pride. And it seems puzzling why the soul would be so silly, so foolish, so insane, as to do such a thing.

Prabhupāda: That is his independence.

Dr. John Mize: Independence.

Prabhupāda: Instead of using independence properly, when he misuses independence he falls.

Dr. John Mize: I'm sorry, he what?

Prabhupāda: He falls down.

Dr. John Mize: He falls.

Prabhupāda: He falls down on account of his independence. Just like you have got independence. You are sitting here. You can go immediately. You may not like to hear me.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: Is it possible to find Kṛṣṇa in the Christian tradition or in Islam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes. Why not? Christians are seeking after God. You are going to the church. "O God." You accept God has created everything. Here also He says, "Everything is My energy." Where is the difference?

Dr. Pore: The Christians describe Kṛṣṇa in a different way. Are they making mistakes?

Prabhupāda: That is... Just like the heat, the question of energy, the heat 93,000,000's miles away from the sun, heat may be different, and in the sun-globe the heat may be different. But the heat is there; and light is there. The same thing: heat and light is the same, but the degree of presentation of heat and light may be different.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ādau-mātā, real mother, and guru-patnī, the wife of guru or teacher, she is also mother 'cause teacher is father. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. She is mother. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhm..., rāja-patnikā, the queen, the wife of the king. She is mother. And then cow is mother because you are drinking her milk. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi rāja-patnikā, dhenur dhatrī, nurse. Nurse is also mother because you suck the breast of the nurse. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers. So you cannot kill your mother. That is not very good philosophy. And who can deny, "The cow is not mother"? Who has got this audacity? You are drinking milk in the very morning. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill?—wholesale killing stop." And the Vedic literature is little liberal. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill," but, "You shall not kill at least cow." But the wholesale stop is not possible. The Vedic wisdom knows that. But you shall not kill at least cow. That is civilization. And the Christians are maintaining thousands of slaughterhouse.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Animal condition. Not only horrible, it is animal condition. They do not want to know God. Just like these animals, they are not interested. So they have no church, the animals, or temple. But in the human society, either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, there is some arrangement for understanding God. Now they are also neglecting that, everyone, all over the world. Now they are clearly... The Communists, they hate to say anything about God. So ultimately they are coming to such position, the Communists, that "No word about God." So this is the position. Now apart from them, just like theologists and theosophists. They are, at least, after understanding what is God, but they cannot ascertain definitely. So why do they not take? We are offering, "Here is God." Where is the objection? Why they should object? If you do not know something and if I give you the information, why you should not take?

Dr. Judah: That's a good question.

Prabhupāda: That is my question. (break) Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge, we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, "Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there?" Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good. (break) ...the definition of God according to the theologicians?

Dr. Judah: Well, there would be many different definitions of God, I suppose, in Christian theology.

Prabhupāda: Why many?

Dr. Judah: It involves various theologies...

Prabhupāda: There is no summary?

Dr. Judah: No. There is no actual statement of any one person or any concept concerning God that would be accepted by all Christians. There are various theologies about God, as I said.

Prabhupāda: No, theologists, some of the prominent theologist, what do they say? How they describe God?

Dr. Judah: Well, it depends upon whether one is a Lutheran or a Calvinist or...

Prabhupāda: Let any one of them say something, I want to hear.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda wants to hear one of them, though. What does the Catholic theology say about God? Thomas Aquinas?

Dr. Judah: Well, I'm not too good at interpreting the Catholic theology. But they would, the Catholic theology would say that God is the father, that there is the son who was born who is the son of God, and...

Prabhupāda: Now, God has got son. That is all right, but what do you mean by God? Everyone has got son, but that does not mean everyone is God. What is the definition of God? You have got son. I have got son. So God has got son. That does not mean He is God. Everyone has got son.

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, you see, the Roman Catholics, if we were to consider this then again, would say that the son of God is one with God and the Holy Spirit as the Trinity...

Prabhupāda: And again, the description of the son.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Of course, in Christianity, which many of the Christians, I feel, are not following as closely as they should and have in the past, there is the idea, for example, in the Roman Catholic church, for example, at the time of the Mass, of experiencing the presence of God and there have been Christian mystics who have felt that they have experienced God. For example, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, and various ones.

Prabhupāda: So they must give description of God. If you have seen this rose flower, then you can give a description. If you cannot give a description, then how you have seen rose flower?

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, they have tried to give descriptions, but, of course, I think all descriptions that have been given of God are, as descriptions are inadequate. Because in my own feeling I believe that the full knowledge of God comes through the actual experience of God, experiencing God in our lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Kṛṣṇa was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education—everything, all topmost, Kṛṣṇa. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, because the Christian theologians do not have very much information about God, they are being very much influenced by these scientists and their conceptions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The same example. A lion is accepted as the king. He is considered to be the king of the beasts in the forest. And he is very much praised. But a human being will see that the lion is also an animal and those who are praising him, they are also animals. Is it not? So if some animals praises another animal, does it mean that the animal is very big? It may be very big for these animals, but lion is not very big thing to the human being. They can capture it. It is nothing. Actually, they capture and keep it in the zoo. So for a human being both the big animal and a small animal, they are animals, although the small animals praise the big animal. Do you follow what I said?

Dr. Judah: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If the God dies and ordinary animal also dies...

Dr. Judah: Yes, it was what they called "atheistic Christianity." (laughter) But as I say, I do not feel that this is representative of Christianity today. And I think that the very fact that this "death of God theology" did become so popular at one particular period is one of the particular reasons why more people have wanted, then have rejected this and have wanted to find some experience of God, find it in their lives to prove, as it were, that He does exist. I think this has been certainly one of the instruments that has caused people to try to seek the reality of God in various ways. In Sufism, I know, in Berkeley they're seeking God, and in the Vedānta and in many other of the different movements, some of them from India and some of them from Japan, particularly in the case of Zen Buddhism which has become very popular. And then, of course, there's always the Sokagaktii(?) in the Bay area which also is very influential among many of the university students, and which, of course, does chanting also. It's a form of bhakti in Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: Actually, nobody has got clear idea of God. This is the difficulty. Nobody knows. We can challenge them. Nobody knows what is God. We can challenge.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: The Christians do this. They have Jesus Christ outside,...

Prabhupāda: In the open.

Brahmānanda: ...exposed. And they accuse us of idol worship.

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). This is a place—in every step there is danger. We are walking in a very nice park. At any moment there may be revolution, whole thing is changed. Whole thing is, becomes fire. Just like, in India now it has become. So we should remember that here in this material world, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam, every step there is danger. Give up this place. That is the real intelligence. And the education misleading them, māyā-sukhāya, making gorgeous plans for temporary happiness. That's all. If in the slaughterhouse the animals are kept very comfortably, so what is the meaning of it?

Brahmānanda: They'll still be slaughtered.

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is the meaning?

Satsvarūpa: No meaning.

Prabhupāda: It is sure that all the animals will be slaughtered, and if the arrangement is "All right, before being slaughtered, let them live very comfortably," is that very good intelligence? The intelligence is "Why we shall be slaughtered?" That is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Satsvarūpa: It was an interreligion meeting, and there were representatives from different Christian..., and he was there for Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he didn't give any strong argument; he just presented it as if it were another way.

Prabhupāda: What is that way?

Satsvarūpa: Well, he said, he described it very... About Rādhā... That Lord Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined.

Prabhupāda: That we say also.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, but the boys who were there, they said it wasn't at all the way you speak. He wasn't saying that ours was the best.

Prabhupāda: No, ours is the best, neither he is best nor it is as it is.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: ...the Christian meeting, where it was?

Satsvarūpa: In Toronto, different professors.

Prabhupāda: What was the subject?

Satsvarūpa: Just world religions with representatives from different religions. Each would speak on their understanding. They asked him what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Gauḍīya Vaisnavism.

Prabhupāda: And who asked for the Absolute Truth, that...?

Satsvarūpa: Uttamaśloka dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, they avoided.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe, conclusion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. (break) ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating? Who has seen? Simply hear from God. He says, "I have created." That's all. But if you challenge, "I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You," then how can you believe? God says, "I have created," so those who are God believers, they will accept that. So what is the use of seeing again, observatory? We trust in God, but don't trust in His word. This is going on. You write in America, "We trust in God," but don't trust in His word. (laughs) Just see. If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe. "No, that we cannot do."

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: They are missing the aim of life. That is the... The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there. It is called Brahma-sūtra or Vedānta-sūtra. Perhaps you have heard the name, Vedānta philosophy. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. In the materialistic way of knowledge they did not find any end, and they accept it "That this is progress." But one must come to the end of the knowledge, what is the ultimate knowledge. So generally they are missing what is the ultimate knowledge. We are searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge? The ultimate knowledge, Vedānta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means to understand the original source of everything. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of everything. Because human life is not a spot. That... The western people are lacking that understanding. We are thinking that this duration of life, say, for fifty to a hundred years, that is all.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Mayor: Would you use the facility, then, as sort of a center for all over the United States?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We invite. As soon as they have got a leisure hour, let them come and live with us for one week and see the result. They can remain forever. It doesn't matter. But for experimental sake they can come, live with us and associate with us. It is not difficult. And we invite everyone. We have no such discrimination that black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, no. Anyone. It is universal. Because we consider every living entity is part and parcel of God. That is a fact. We are teeny gods, part and parcel. The same quality we have got—in minute quantity. Quality is the same, quantity is less. So God is good, so we are also good. But we have become bad under circumstances. Just like under infection, one becomes diseased. So if we cure that infection, again he becomes good. So it is the curing process. It is not an external artificial thing, imposed upon somebody, no. His goodness is there. Just like generally a man is healthy, but by infecting some disease he becomes diseased. So this material way of life is a kind of infection. So we have to cure that. And this is our process. And it has become successful. So therefore this problem of your country... I was this morning also lecturing that "You take up this movement very seriously and save your country." And if you save America, means you save the whole world because others are following America. So you can do it very easily. That is my appeal to the authorities of the American administration. But I do not want anything. For your countrymen, for your misguided youthful generation, you have to do it. That is my request. Otherwise there is no other way.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Mayor: We're aware that a religious approach is more successful and our mental health society here is funding the Reverend Perry who is a black ordained, I think, a Baptist protestant minister, formerly a drug addict. And he's been working out with, especially with the blacks who have drug addiction and he achieves much more success than other agencies.

Prabhupāda: Which process? Drug addiction has been helped by somebody?

Brahmānanda: No, the mayor's saying that the administration is not against supporting religious organizations.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: He gives the example of one religious organization.

Prabhupāda: This is everything. Religious, social, political, philanthropical, science, everything included. We can give advice for solving any problem. That we have got all these books, practical. And in India there is political problem. Everywhere it is going on. They do not follow the standard way. Who will be the politicians? Here is the..., described. What are the politicians? Second-class, they are taken second-class.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Wouldn't that sort of peace be a precursor to a return to religion? Must we not first have peace?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the difficulty. We do not know the meaning of religion. At the present moment the human society does not know what is the meaning of religion. The meaning of religion is to abide by the laws of God, just like a good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state, of the government. Because we have no understanding of God, therefore we do not know what is the laws of God, and therefore we do not know what is religion. That is the present status of the human society. They are forgetting religion. They take religion as a kind of faith. Faith may be blind faith. Faith is not the real description of religion. Religion means the laws which is given by God, and anyone who follows the laws, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or Muslim. If he follows the laws of God, then he is religious.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Sir, do you think that the wealth of the United States and some certain other countries would be a block to spiritual faith? In Christianity there is a parable that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to come before the throne of God." Would wealth in itself be a block toward spiritual awareness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Too much wealthy condition is a block. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. If one is very materially opulent, he forgets God. Therefore, to be too much materially rich is a disqualification for understanding God. Although there is no more impediment, that "Only the poor man will understand God and rich man will not understand," it is not that. But generally, if one is extraordinarily rich or his one aim is only to acquire money, it is difficult for him to understand God. Bhogaiśvarya... Find out this verse,

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ

tayāpahṛta-cetasām

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

(BG 2.44)

Another place, I think in the Bible, "God is available for the humble and meek"? What is that? Is there such statement? So the rich person is neither humble nor meek. He is always proud and puffed up unnecessarily.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Um hm. Well, those who believe in our country in Christianity believe these things. I don't see the vast differences between the spiritual belief of one religious group as opposed to another.

Prabhupāda: We don't say that. We don't say that. We say that you follow any religious system. Doesn't matter. But you understand God and love Him. That is our propaganda. We do not say that "You are Christian. This is not good. You come here." We do not say. Why say? Everything is... But our proposition is that either you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him, that's all.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No civil state wants this criminality. That's a fact. But they do not know how to stop it. That we can suggest. We are good advisor. Now, the government is the executor. So if they take our advice and execute it, then things will be done nicely.

Lt. Mozee: There are countless numbers in the United States of large facilities of the Christian faith, and, like you, they give the refreshment of the holy communion. Why does this not work? Why is this not cleansing the heart?

Prabhupāda: The answer is... Then we come to the details. So you say, "Christian," and I find to find out a Christian. I find difficulty to find out one Christian. I must frankly say, because the so-called Christians, they do not abide by the Bible's order that in the Christian's Bible it is said, "Thou shall not kill." and where is a Christian who does not kill? So this can be effective only persons who are practicing religion. So these persons, they are trained to practice. So their chanting of the holy name of God and others' are different. (break) It is not simply a rubber stamp position. It must be practiced, realized. This chanting of holy name by our men who are trained up and the same chanting by others will be different. Of course, if you... (break) ...your Hindu principle. That is secular state, not to remain callous: "Whatever you like you can do. We have no concern to see." That is not government's duty.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Sir, isn't the difficulty, rather, that the group of, I want to call them, hard-core group, the priests, the devotees, the followers, the little circle of people, have always been the ones that have followed the practices, but the fringe... Assume for example that Hare Kṛṣṇa grew to gigantic proportions as Christianity has grown. Would not it be the problem that the fringe areas, the ones who were not, who professed to be the followers... Would not they be the difficulty as the Christian is today? You have said that you...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that possibility is always there. But my proposal is that if you are not true Christian, then your preaching will not be effective. I don't say that now we are strictly following and we will not fall down in future. I don't say that. That fall down propensity, tendency is always there. But my proposal is that unless one is strictly follower of the principles, his preaching will not be effective. That is my charge.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: God is complete and His arrangement is also very complete. Everyone has his necessities of life completely. In the Vedas it is said that we are all living entities. God is also the chief living entity. The difference is that that one God, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He supplies the necessities of all other living entities. In the Christian world also, they believe God gives bread to everyone, and they go to the church, "O God, give us our daily bread." But higher philosophy is that we should not or we need not ask God for our bread. That is already there. We should approach God, how to love Him. That is our business. Otherwise, God is supplying food to the elephant who can eat forty kilogram at a time, or forty kg. And the ant eats only one grain of sugar. So God is supplying all of them. So there is no question of asking God to give us our food. It is already there. We should not waste our time to ask God for our sense gratification. That arrangement is already there. We shall try to know God and try to love Him. That is the business of human form of life.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Christ consciousness is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but people do not follow the rules and regulations of Christianity. Therefore they are not awakened. The commandments of Christ, they do not follow. Therefore they do not come to the standard of consciousness.

Sandy Nixon: What is unique about Kṛṣṇa consciousness that separates it from other religions? If it's a religion.

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Guest: I understand what you're saying. You're saying you cannot do practices and commit sin, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are, in every religion, there are principles. If you don't follow them, then how you become religious? Therefore this is my question. So nobody is following religious principles at the present moment. Therefore practically there is no religion. Everything is finished. We are trying to revive. If you follow religious principle, then it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Mohammedan or Hindu or Buddha. Then you are religious. But if you do not follow any religious principle, then how you become religious?

Father: Does that mean to say that you can't live a happy life without being religious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Brahmānanda: In the First Canto?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: What about Christian, Christian.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu.

Prof. Hopkins: What about Christians?

Prabhupāda: Christian also, that is nice, giving instruction to go back to God. It is not? What is the ultimate goal of Christianity? What do they desire?

Prof. Hopkins: Hard to answer. There's no clear single goal. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is the goal, single or plural, doesn't matter.

Prof. Hopkins: Well, some Christians would say the vision of God, the ultimate goal is to be with God.

Prabhupāda: That is really, to realize God. Not only Christian, any religion. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There may be different types of religious systems but that system is first class which directly leads one to understand what is God and how to love Him. That's all. That is perfect religion.

Prof. Hopkins: So the question... The question in one sense is not whether it's Christian or Śaivite or Vaiṣṇavite but whether it is directed to a knowledge of God, a devotion to God or not.

Prabhupāda: That is first-class.

Prof. Hopkins: But you would feel that there, what, it is easier to reach that goal by worshiping Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: But is it easier or better to be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: A Kṛṣṇa bhakta than to be a Christian, say?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything genuine is easy. Anything hodgepodge, that is not good. We don't recommend hodgepodge.

Prof. Hopkins: So the advantage then, or the greater value is that it is focused and clear rather than a hodgepodge where the goal and the activities are not clear.

Prabhupāda: The hodgepodge has killed the whole world, that so many pseudo-religious systems. People are misled.

Prof. Hopkins: So the truth may be there somewhere...

Prabhupāda: Truth is everywhere.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Then why they find difference in having soul?

Brahmānanda: Well, that is the Christian. But these modern psychologists, they don't even think that the human being has soul. That he's the same as the animal.

Bahulāśva: Actually psyche means soul.

Prabhupāda: Psyche means mental activities, thinking, feeling, and willing. (break) ...keeping building department different.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...their opinion about birth, death?

Bahulāśva: They think that birth is the beginning of the body and that when death comes everything is finished.

Prabhupāda: So why again body comes?

Bahulāśva: What body is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Just like you take fruits from the tree. Again fruits come.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university and they taught me in psychology, and it was a priest. And they were teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use these textbooks that teach this materialism.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what effects are the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement having on the Christian-Judaic culture or the traditional religious culture?

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Jayatīrtha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you comment on opposition to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in this country?

Prabhupāda: No, why they should oppose? What is the reason? If they are Christian or Jewish, religious men, so we are advocating, "You chant the holy name of God," so why there should be objection? Is there any reason for such objection? What is the objection?

Reporter (1): Some of the objections are that the followers of the Hare Kṛṣṇa sect are, on the streets or in the airports, are bothering people.

Prabhupāda: The airport itself is a botheration, so much sound, so much accident. So why this little botheration they cannot tolerate? That means intolerance. It is full of botheration, and because we are chanting, they very much disturbed? We don't chant in the airport, but we ask people that "Here is a very good book. You will benefit. If you like, you can take." So what is the wrong there? Tell me what is the wrong? If I give you something very nice, is that, I mean to say, wrong? You read any book. We have got fifty books. You find out any fault in that. If we are distributing something, bad literature which is against the social welfare, then you can object. But you see. Bring all our books here, and you will see. Any page you open and you will find something good.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Yadunandana: The reason why the western world is so much involved in science is because the religions that have been presented here in the West have cheated the people economically...

Prabhupāda: No, why cheated? The Christian religion says God created.

Devotee (4): But the followers do not practice this idea. The original idea is very nice.

Prabhupāda: No, they became over-intelligent by so-called education.

Bahulāśva: Over-intelligent?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: How is that?

Prabhupāda: Over-intelligence means rascal. Intelligence is good, but over-intelligence means rascal.

Bahulāśva: How does that happen, when he becomes over-intelligent?

Prabhupāda: Over-intelligent, it is sarcastically said. More than intelligent.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Religious..., not dogma. Just like in Christian religion it is said that "God created this." So this is a fact, but it is not properly explained. And neither the followers understood how to explain, third-class men. So therefore they should accept, that's all. They should accept. Just like one thing, sweetmeat. A child is tasting. So if the child wants how it is made, so he has no power to understand. Therefore he should be simply ordered, "You simply eat. That's all." So in the Bible it is like that. And therefore it is strictly ordered that "You should follow." The things are there but they are not explained because they were third-class men. Otherwise why the commandment was, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Jesus Christ? So what class of men they were? All third-class, fourth-class men. How they will understand? Now people have become, by education, advanced...

Bahulāśva: We should go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because they have these sprinklers on here.

Prabhupāda: Now they should come to big dictionary. This is Vedic. The Vedic truth is there, but it is not properly explained because the men were fourth-class. Now the people have become advanced. They should take to Vedic literature. Then they will understand how God created. But it was not explained because the people, they were living in the desert and shepherds and all fourth-class, fifth-class men. And now they, these first-class men, all advanced men, they are trying to adjust the tenth-class ideas, and therefore they are becoming rejecting, that "It is all useless." Now they should come to first-class understanding in the Vedas.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Nectar of Devotion you explain that there are three classes of devotees. And you say that the third-class devotee, he has belief but he cannot explain or give any support.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bahulāśva: This is like Christian...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: They believe that there is God.

Prabhupāda: If you believe there is God, that is sufficient. That is sufficient. But now they, being advanced in education, they want to know how God is there. There is no explanation. Therefore they reject it.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.

Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: This has got some meaning. What is this matchbox? There is earth, there is sands (sense?), there is comfort. So we shall go this way or...? (break) It is all vacant? (break) Big demonstration of cow fighting, bull fighting, and kill them. Such a Christian is trying to convert others as Christians! Just see the fun. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are sporting with the life of bull, and they are Christian. We have to believe.

Yadubara: Isn't that somewhat in the kṣatriya spirit?

Prabhupāda: Nonsense spirit. Rascal spirit.

Yadubara: But sometimes those people get killed when they're fighting the bull.

Prabhupāda: But your arrangement is to kill the bull. By chance or by God's desire you become killed.

Brahmānanda: It's a very popular sport.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are Christians.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like."

Morning Walk -- August 25, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whose land it is?

Dhanañjaya: This is a part of the Christian land.

Jayapatāka: Śrīla Prabhupāda, walk on the right.

Dhanañjaya: So the Christians... (break)

Prabhupāda: So what they are doing?

Dhanañjaya: Well, Praṇava, he was investigating.

Prabhupāda: Investigating for life. Whole life, simply investigating.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you make "Hindu religion," "Muslim religion," "Christian religion," immediately it is not religion, immediately. Because Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Why does He say, sarva-dharmān parityajya? (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Because that is not religion. The so-called religions which are going on, they are not religion. That we do not say at the present moment because you are not so strong. But we have to say that. There is no religion. All cheating. Why Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66)? Why?

Akṣayānanda: Because there is no other religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no religion.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is the position. Even it is forbidden... In the Christian religion it is forbidden: "Thou shall not kill." And they are killing. That means envious of the animal, and he is envious of himself also. They are now being killed in the womb of the mother. Why the child is now being killed within the womb of the mother? Hm?

Akṣayānanda: Because they are envious. They are envious.

Prabhupāda: So Upendra has not come?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Brahmānanda: He said he had to take a laxative last night.

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? (break) ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is māyā's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is māyā's trick.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: The Christians, they have a concept of sin. So when Vivekānanda went to America he was telling them, "No, you forget this concept. Whatever you do, it's all right because you are God." They were surprised.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they liked him.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They did not like. The Christian priests did not like him. They condemned him, "Oh, you are come from India, and you are speaking nonsense, this?" In those hundred years the Christian priests were conscious: "But how is this? From India he has come and he's talking like nonsense?" They questioned in Chicago speech.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: He's just fanning the fires of atheism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but we never criticize anyone. When the Christians come forward—"Whether our Christian religion can also give the same meaning"—"Yes, why not?" Yes.

Dr. Patel: It has the same bhakti.

Prabhupāda: I never said...

Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhāgavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way.

Prabhupāda: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru."

Dr. Patel: It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We do not...

Dr. Patel: The Christians don't know that we take it like that.

Prabhupāda: Even if we say "Mohammed," why not? Anyone who has preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā, sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The Mohammed also said Allah akbar.

Dr. Patel: Only the difference is that Mohammed is trying to worship nirañjana, nirākāra, and we...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not nirākāra. That is not...

Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His ākāra—"God has form."

Prabhupāda: No, Mohammed also has got... Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just Vaiṣṇava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness in toto, absolute.... There cannot be a higher bhakta than that. It is said that Jesus Christ learned all these things in India. It might be a fact?

Passerby: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: And he daily bhakta. (?) He came for pūjā, for guru. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...devatā bhaktāḥ, te 'pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam. They give examples, as the gopīs worshiped Kātyāyanī. But that is not avidhi. They went to Kātyāyanī for getting the favor of Kṛṣṇa. They prayed to mother Kātyāyanī, "Please be favorable to us so that Kṛṣṇa may be pleased upon us." Others go to beg from Kātyāyanī some material benefits, but the gopīs, they did not ask for any material benefit. And therefore that is vidhi.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They have no concern with Bible and God and everything. They are simply after sense gratification. What is the use of quoting about Bible? They don't care for Bible. The Europeans, Americans, they have rejected, thrown away, kicked out Bible because (it is) unscientific. Actually they do not accept. Although they call themselves Christian, they do not accept anything of Bible. That is... Bible is finished. There is no meaning of Bible. Simply for their sectarian prestige, they say "Bible." But actually they have nothing to do with Bible. What do you think?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: They do not go to the church, but they come to us for arguing with Bible. Just see. What is the meaning? Their churches have closed, nobody goes, and they come to argue with us with Bible. That means "The Devil cites scripture." They are devils, and they are quoting from Bible.

Devotee (2): So many people who come to our program, they are Christians. There may be 75% who come. They are all Christians.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We don't discriminate whether he is Christian. We take everyone as human being, welcome.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Now, Crusades, even... If they could expand the ideas of Christian, love of Godhead, that was nice. But that was not the purpose. It is exploitation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even by force?

Prabhupāda: Yes. By force if you give some good medicine, that is good for him. In my childhood I would not take medicine. Exactly like this, now also. (laughter) So I was given medicine by force in the spoon. Two men will catch me and my mother take me on the lap and then force and I shall take. I never agreed to take any medicine.

Harikeśa: Should we do that now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Then you'll kill me.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: ...convert the Hindus to Christianity, the children. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Christian missionaries. They are trying to convert others, but they are closing their churches. They are selling their churches to us.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Finding new suckers. In South Africa they put up big paṇḍāls, and because the Indian people, they have no entertainment in the evening, so they go there and they are entertained, and they learn how to sing the hymns that they have. Then you find that the children are singing the hymns because that's the songs that they're learning. If we can provide entertainment like that in the form of saṅkīrtana, then they'll also sing Hare Kṛṣṇa and become devotees of Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...own Christian priests, they asked me that "Why Christianity is dwindling? What we have done?" So I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughter)

Cyavana: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some Catholic priest said that better to let her die, because this is God's way.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept the God's way and give up the machine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But in a situation like that, isn't it more valuable to preserve human life because there's the chance...

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a chance that somehow or another, they might be...

Prabhupāda: Why should you take the chance? You are perplexed with overpopulation. And why you want to stay? One side, you are perplexed with overpopulation. Let him die.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They are thinking. They are rascals. They are thinking like that. Therefore I say they are imperfect. They are imperfectly thinking. So... So there were many Muslims, and the Christian, that Scotland man, he appreciated.

Cyavana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we do not say anything about any particular section. We are speaking about God. God does not belong to any section. When Kṛṣṇa said that there should be four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13), He does not say that these divisions should be in the Hindu society or in India. He never says so. So why they take it as Hindu? Kṛṣṇa does not say that it is meant for the Hindus, for India. If God says that "I have created the sun," does it mean sun is created for India, not for this island? So these are foolishness. Whatever is spoken by God, that is meant for everyone, all over the universe. That is real understanding.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And we have no distinction that "He is Hindu. He is Muslim. He is Christian." No. Everyone is welcome to take this culture, education. We have no such sectarian view. No.

Devotee: Excuse me. Your idea is a program similar to what we've done or been doing previously?

Guest (1): No, Swamijī. Previously you have been only going one day in a village. Only one day means two hours or like this. People are influenced...

Prabhupāda: Once or continual. Yes. That is required.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is, er... This is one park, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is less wind here than on the beach.

Prabhupāda: No, we can go to the beach. What is that? If it is closed... (break) (Out of car:) The Indians are also coming to that point. The beginning is the rascal Vivekananda. He says, "Where you are searching God? Don't you see so many gods are loitering in the street, poor? Better you serve them. Why do you go to the temple?" This is their propaganda. That means no conception of God. The Ārya-samājīs also, they say, "There is no God in the temple." So in India the Jains, they also say, "There is no God." The Buddhists, they also say, "There is no God." The Christians, they have got very vague idea. So where is God? No God. It is only we are crying, "Here is God." Otherwise, whole world, they are trying to banish God, the Kaṁsa's policy, "Kill God," whole world, the Communists, total. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That means... You say directly, "There is no God. It is a false conception only." You say directly. That is understandable. But why do you say all these nonsense, that "God is there, but He has no head, He has no tail, He has no hands, He has no...?" What is this? Tell directly that "There is no God." The Buddhists say, "There is no God." That is understandable. Why do you cheat? The Christian also believe like that?

Harikeśa: Nowadays they do.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What do they?

Harikeśa: When we went to Hyderabad we spoke to the Archbishop, and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami asked him, "What is God?" And he said, "Well, nowadays there are so many theories as to what is God."

Prabhupāda: Theories.

Harikeśa: "Actually nobody knows."

Prabhupāda: Just see. A head of religious group, and he says, "There are so many theories." And this rascal is the head of the group. So what is the group?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They must be rascals too.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even when we preach to these Christians... There's one passage in the Bible that says that "Man is created in the image of God." So we show them that "This is God, Kṛṣṇa," and they say, "No, no, no, no, no, can't be." But still, the image is there, that man has an image, a likeness, to God. He has two arms. He has two eyes. But still, they can't accept if we say that Kṛṣṇa is God.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. They'll...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Envious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is rascaldom. They'll...

Harikeśa: They say He must be a very old man. He must be very old with a big, long beard.

Prabhupāda: So that we shall consider later on. He is a man like. First of all accept that. Then whether He is old or young, we shall consider later on. First of all accept that either old or young, He is a man like, shape, form. Then we shall talk other things. Then what is the use of talking with them, with a rascal? That is the point. There is no use, talking with these rascals. Waste of time.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is not the Hindu point of view. It is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)—that is applicable both for Hindu, Muslim, Christian, everyone. Just like a Hindu child and a Muslim child. Does it mean that Hindu child will not grow to become young man? Only the Muslim will grow? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ—a child becomes a boy—that is equally applicable to the Hindus, to the Muslim, to the Christian, to everyone.

Professor: Of course, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then where it is, the religion? It is the science.

Professor: Yes. But the Christian, for example, says...

Prabhupāda: No, no. I say from practical... A Hindu child becomes a boy, and Christian child also becomes a boy. You cannot say that because you are Christian, you will not become a boy. Can you say like that?

Professor: Oh, no.

Prabhupāda: Or because you are Christian, you will not become an old man. Can you say like that? So it is the science. So if this science is not in your university, then you are in darkness.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Now, you have to say, because you also grow. You shall also grow old man like me, not that because you are Christian you will not grow old man like me.

Professor: In any case...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the first proposition, that if you keep people in darkness—he does not know what is his future—then what is the use of education and university?

Indian man (2): So do you mean that the university should be abolished?

Prabhupāda: Not abolished. But education means that you must know what is your position.

Indian man (2): With due respect, I want to know what is the line of demarcation between science and religion.

Prabhupāda: Science means which is applicable to everyone. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a kind of faith." Faith... I may be Hindu today; tomorrow I may be Christian. That is... I can change.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Now... Yes, that we can say like this, that "two plus two equal to four"—this is applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian, everyone. This is science.

Professor: Yes. No, no, I understand. I understand. I know where your argument is going to. But any case, let us beg to differ. Because... Let us accept it. I just want to say I agree with you in this sense. I agree with you in this sense, Swami, that if we do not pay attention to the religious side, then we keep the people in darkness. We have to, on the religious side too. (someone entering) Professor Olivier, the rector. (introducing) ...And this is our Swami Bhaktivedanta.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The principal of the university, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa. How are you?

Professor: And Mister (indistinct) Singh from Pietermaritzburg, and Professor Maharaj you know. And all the other ladies and gentlemen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit beside Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you can explain what I was talking.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): I want an answer, please. Are you suggesting that every person, whether he is Muslim or Christian or Buddhist or Jew or Parsi or anybody else for that matter, should accept the Hindu doctrine of transmigration or reincarnation of soul in order that he may be called really a religious person or a scientific person?

Prabhupāda: Well, the difficulty is that we are talking of transmigration of the soul on scientific basis. But you are trying to give it a Hindu color. Why? To become... I have already explained. To become old man is equally applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian. So why you say it is Hindu belief? It is not Hindu belief. It is a science. Why you are bringing "Hindu, Muslim, Christian"? I do not know why.

Indian man (4): The real question between this statement of Mr. Professor and you is that what is religion and what is science. Unless the nature of science and religion defined...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Science is applicable to everyone.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. First of all forget religion. I am talking of science. That a boy is becoming young man and young man is becoming old man, this is science. What do you think, Principal? It is science or religion? Does it mean that only the Hindus become old men and the Christians do not?

Prof. Olivier: Yes... My problem as a simple layman is how to make God relevant to the issues of the day. But since God's relevancy can only be related to the permanent, the problem becomes even more complicated. But I have to deal with practical situations. Everybody in a university...

Prabhupāda: This is practical situation, that...

Prof. Olivier: Yes, I would agree. It is one of the neglected avenues of learning that we have not been able scientifically, I think...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: And now your point is that the time has come for society and the world to find out if there are cracks in the superstructure. Whether these cracks are just superficial cracks or whether they are caused by foundational cracks or shifts in the corners of the foundational structure. And I, like you, I believe that this is not entirely a question of... Well, it's certainly not a question of whether it's Hinduism or Christian or Islam.

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: But now do you not think that Christianity and Islam accept this as well?

Prabhupāda: I do not say which religion accepts and which religion does not, but unless one understands that he is not this body—he is different from this body—his education is imperfect.

Indian man (2): But do I mean that up till now your excellency were giving the question of transmigration, field of science, and now you are also taking that subject of God in this sphere of science?

Prabhupāda: It is not God. God is far away. First of all I must know what I am. God is long, long distant.

Indian man (2): But what should be the...

Prabhupāda: First of all you understand what you are, whether you are this body or something other than the body. That is first.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So, that bodily conception of life is dogism. Dog thinks, "I am dog." Cat thinks, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," so what is the difference? Because you are giving some name of religion, therefore you are better than dog?

Indian man (2): With due respect, I want to know the God knows that He is God and dog knows he is dog? (?)

Prabhupāda: Why do you bring God? I am not talking of God.

Indian man (2): Dog. Dog.

Prabhupāda: I am talking of the soul.

Indian man (2): Whether dog knows that he is dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows the body—"I am dog." That's all.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: Thank you very much. Might I apropos of that just say here that we have here a department, Science of Religion. Then we have a department of Christian Theology. We have now started a department of Islamic Studies, which will concentrate more on the theological aspects as we go along. And then, if we can find the right guru, we can start a gurukula, a department of Hindu Studies or Hinduism. And Mr. Chotari and various other members of the local community here are assisting us to find the right spiritual leader. As far as Hindu studies are concerned, we give a course here in Sanskrit at the university.

Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?

Prof. Olivier: I got a copy of the Bhagavad-gītā at the last occassion when your representatives were here, which I thought was a very well brought out and a very well documented edition. The printing is also very good. So we are trying at this university to, slowly, to delve down into the infrastructure of education. Of course, one..., in the Western society one has got to take cognizance of so many developments in the various fields of science. And the element of spiritual science certainly has been neglected. I would concede this point immediately. That is perhaps where this university can also still play a meaningful part. Of course, here we have representatives of three of the world's greatest religions: Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity. This will be part of Professor Oosthuizen's department, to try and take the best out of these and formulate for our students, and maybe for the rest of South Africa and the world that will listen, the essences of religion that would really satisfy as we go along.

Prabhupāda: We say that religion means the law given by God. So any religion must accept God. Then there is no difference. The law may be little different according to time, circumstances. But religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the law given by God. Just like law means the codes given by the state. That is law. Just like you are keeping, "Keep to the right" or "left" here. In America it is right. So somewhere, "Keep to the right," or somewhere, "Keep to the left," but because it is given by the state, it is law. Similarly, whatever law is given by God, that is religion. This is our definition of religion.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: This is what is normally in the Hindu religion, you know, which it is not so, of course, in the Christian religion.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religion. This is the, I mean to say, our position, real position. Religion develops. Religion is a kind of faith. That develops according to time, circumstances, people. But reality is this, that we are spirit soul. We are now conditioned by the laws of material nature, and we are carried away by the laws of material nature and transmigrating from one body to another, sometimes happy, sometimes distressed, or sometimes heavenly planet, sometimes lower planet. This is going on. And human life is meant for stopping this process of transmigration and revive our original consciousness, and go back to home, back to Godhead, and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. This is the whole scheme of Vedic literature. And Bhagavad-gītā is the synopsis how to attain this life. Therefore, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā begins to understand the constitutional position of the soul. Then other things. First of all we have to understand what we are, whether I am this body or something else. This is the first understanding. So I was trying to explain this, but that Mr. Chadda, he would bring that "You want to introduce Hindu conception." It is not Hindu conception. It is the scientific conception. I am a child for some time. Then I become a boy for some time. Then I become a young man, some time. Then I become old man. In this way I am changing body. This is not Hindu conception or Vedic conception. This is a fact. But he would not hear that. He would simply say, "You are trying to push Hindu conception of..." And what is this Hindu conception? It is equally applicable to everyone.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: And especially the young people, they are therefore living in a complete vacuum. For various reasons they do not want to accept...and I come back to the word religion again because this is what they have about, or see around them. They cannot identify themselves with the Christian religion. They cannot identify themselves with the Islamic religion. They are largely ignorant.

Prabhupāda: So they should be shown the right path.

Prof. Olivier: They should be.

Prabhupāda: This is the right path, original, authentic.

Prof. Olivier: There were not very many great scholars in South Africa amongst our Indian community, you know. They came out by and large as workers on the sugar plantations. A few were Christian missionaries, a few were jewelers and tailors and so on. And then for the last hundred years they were occupied in resisting...

Prabhupāda: Political struggle.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: He would have to be acceptable to the Hindu community because it would be for them only, not for the Christians or for the Muslims.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Hindu community accepts our movement. Every program we have, we have at least...we’ve seen at City Hall we had full house, last night (?) full house, and they very much appreciate our movement in particular. They come to us with many questions. So any representative of our movement is pure in his activities and his understanding of the philosophy is comprehensive, so they have no objection. But they see practically that the big men in the Hindu community here, in Johannesburg and Durban...

Prabhupāda: You can ask the Hindu community.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The essence of Hinduism is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Prof. Olivier: Yeah. Therefore, one would like to see that the foundation of any course which is given here in Hinduism is a pure foundation, unadulterated. Therefore, based on the Gītā and the Upanisads and the Veda, all the Vedic literature, because that's all that's available. But the trouble is, you see, as it is, whether it is Christianity or whether it is...I don’t want to speak about Islam because I don’t know enough about them, but there is always the danger that you will get intellectual expositions...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, this is the idea of presenting...

Prof. Olivier: ...without the faith.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...presenting as it is. In other words, let them draw their own conclusions. In other words, it's not simply that you’re trying to flatter some people that they know so much if they don’t know. You’re trying to educate, which means uplift. So simply we present the principles that are here and let the people become elevated, educated.

Prof. Olivier: Well, are your book lists in here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this country we have to do army training, and on a Sunday we have to attend a church service. We have to attend it. Is it all right to say that we won't attend it because we follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or must we go anyway? It's sort of a Christian denomination service on a Sunday.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. Those who are doing nothing, for them to attend the church at least for one hour, that is better than... Something is better than nothing, you see. That is good. People have completely forgotten God. They are doomed. So better to remember at least for some time. That is good.

Indian man (3): We would like you to stay more longer in this country.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man (3): We would like to request you to stay more longer in this country.

Prabhupāda: So if you start a good center I will stay and see that things are going on. (aside:) Just take this stick.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Harikeśa: It seems that the Christians' idea of God is our idea of Brahmā. Their God is like Brahmā. He's just a creator.

Prabhupāda: What is their idea? I do not know.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their idea is that in the beginning there was darkness until God created the light. Then he created the different heavenly planets and the oceans and the inanimate things. Then He created…

Prabhupāda: Then it is like Brahmā.

Harikeśa: It is like Brahmā. And their heaven and hell is like the upper and lower planetary systems. It's all little bit of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Little difference, maybe, but the basic…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that Adam was created…

Prabhupāda: Then their God created. God created. So that is all right. We also say God created Brahmā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Then they say that woman was created from a rib of Adam.

Prabhupāda: That is also correct. That is also possible. Created from God, so that is accepted. The description may be little different. That doesn’t matter. But God is the origin of all creation. If that is accepted, this is nice.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: The government never objected to our movement. Never. I never met any objection from government side. Neither even Christian priestly side. I never met any objection. They understand that "He is doing something."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only from your Godbrothers. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You don't like the sunshine so much.

Prabhupāda: Only at the time of massage. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...Vedic statement or is it just preference?

Prabhupāda: No, that is my personal. During winter it is pleasing, of course, sunshine.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: The same thing, that small animals praising the big animals, that's all. At least they say something about God. They are not zero, but they have no clear conception of God.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But everyone is thinking that their religion is the best. Even the Christian may be ignorant, even the Jew may be ignorant, anyone—doesn't matter—they're thinking that theirs is the best.

Prabhupāda: That is the proof that everyone is fool. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). First of all... Therefore we have to understand from Bhāgavata that what is real religion. Real religion means love of Godhead. So instead of love of Godhead, the love of doghead is increasing. So where is religion? Everybody should keep a dog and serve him, and where is God?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they think that God is in the other world, so that in this world we can serve our wife and family, and when we go to the other world we'll serve God.

Prabhupāda: Then God is separated from this world. How much imperfect knowledge it is. God has created this world, and He has nothing to do with. Just see. They say God created this world, but He has nothing to do with it.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Guest: We've started practicing that Transcendental Meditation. We have found that by practicing the meditation we have had a change in consciousness. It has led us into further inquiry, so we've found that it has been valuable in a certain way, and that's the only actual practice. We have been reading things like Muktananda and kundalini-yoga and that sort of stuff, the haṭha-yoga. So it's just been an inquiry of our own which we've never done before. We've only been exposed to our own Christian scriptures. And we find in bhakti-yoga and Christianity a lot of similarities. They are the same, as far as we can see. It's difficult, though, to understand our scriptures in...

Prabhupāda: No, in the Bhagavad-gītā everything is clearly explained.

Guest: That's right. Our scriptures are interpreted, and we've been taught to interpret them in a certain way, and it hasn't been very clear.

Prabhupāda: What scripture you are... Bible?

Guest: Well, the Bible. But we only know the Bible as we've been told it, and it's been told to us by unrealized men, and we ended up being virtually atheistically inclined, until that led to...

Prabhupāda: So in Bible what is the conception of God?

Guest: It's very unclear.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. In every religion...

Woman: To identify with it.

Prabhupāda: There is no clear conception.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So if you don't accept Aquarian Gospel authority, who cares for your Bible? At least Aquarian Gospel has been written by some Christian. It is not outsider.

Harikeśa: They say he was a drunk.

Prabhupāda: But you are a mad. He is drunk, and you are mad. Where is the difference? So, if we can go? (break) It was a statement that the earth is flat. Eh? Where it was stated the earth is flat?

Harikeśa: Oh. That was a theory of one of the contemporary Roman philosophers.

Prabhupāda: It is not in Bible.

Harikeśa: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (Break) There is no information in the Bible at all about God. There's no information about God, simply that God is there, He's the creator, but nothing more.

Prabhupāda: That is in no scripture excepting the Vedic scripture. Clear conception of God is there in the Vedic. Definition of God, clear conception of God, everything is there.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Kṛṣṇa. We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college-come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold," everyone's gold? "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija sarva śaktis

tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ

etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi

durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ

In the Bible there is no specific name of God. Eh?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say, "Jehovah" and "Yaweḥ."

Prabhupāda: Not fixed up. The Māyāvāda... If you have no fixed name of God, then why don't you chant Kṛṣṇa? What is the harm? But envious. Therefore paramo nirmatśaraṇaṁ (SB 1.1.2). One who has completely eradicated from the envious conception of life, they can take to this way. (Break) ...climate of this island is good.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: Christianity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's like the flowery words of the Vedas, flowery words of the Vedas, mostly simply dealing with moral principles.

Prabhupāda: That also broken. He said, "Thou shall not kill." They broke it.

Cyavana: Yes, they broke every...

Prabhupāda: Everything. (break) Hearing is there. Therefore the other items, eating, sleeping and mating must be there. So there is arrangement for them, everything, within the sand. How you can say within the sand there is no life?

Brahmānanda: They think they can have the eating and the sleeping and the mating and not the fearing. They want to have the eating, the sleeping and the mating but not the fearing.

Prabhupāda: Why? Here is fearing. Why they are going out? They know we are a different living entity.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Jñāna: ...program like the Christians.

Prabhupāda: Explain how to... Explain.

Brahmānanda: Of having a... Encouraging the people to..., first by having kīrtana and prasādam. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the process. Some how or other, they should join, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare..." Then everything... It is not very difficult. Simply induce them to chant. That will make everything success.

Jñāna: We have been spending some time in a small town.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. You induce people to chant. This is the sum and substance of devotee. It doesn't matter whether it is town, city, village. Wherever you go, you gather people and induce them by flattering them, by falling their, on their leg—some way or other, induce them. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya. This is the process shown by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, that "My dear sir, I have come to you with great humbleness, taking a straw in my mouth." Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya: "And falling down on your lotus feet." Kaku-satam kṛtva: "And I am trying to please you by so many flattering words." Kṛtva ahaṁ bravimi: "I have got some submission, if you'll kindly hear." So who is that man who will deny? If you fall down on his feet and take a straw and very humbly you pray, "Sir, I have got something to say if you kindly hear," who will deny? Who is that man? Even rogues, rascals, he'll also agree: "Yes, you can say what you want to do." This is the process. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-satam kṛtva ca ahaṁ bravimi. "I want to submit. Will you kindly hear?" So any rogue, rascal, gentleman, big, small, learned—everyone will agree.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: That is also propounded by him only, that "You can do anything as long as you know that you are not this body, you are soul." I heard that one day he went into the Muslim mosque and said, "Today I am a Muslim, so I can eat beef today. Tomorrow I am a Christian, so I can eat this, because I am not this body."

Prabhupāda: That was done by Rāmakrishna also. And when he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple, that "Now I shall practice the Muslim way of religion. So I shall eat beef," so the proprietor said, "Kindly go out and practice it outside." (laughter) (break) ...exemplified like this: on the glass it appears like a sun, but it is not sun. A reflection, pratibiṁbha. (break) A man can understand that dahi is nothing but milk. (Hindi) Why you wait for the milk? (Hindi)

Indian man (4): Different effect of dahi and dudh.

Prabhupāda: Why different effect? (Hindi) ...milk.

Indian man (4): Pratices are changed after.

Prabhupāda: That one has to understand. (Hindi with Sanskrit quotes) (end)

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...worldwide known...

Dr. Patel: In the Christian religion.

Nara: He was a loafer. He was not having two meals a day. (break)

Brahmānanda: Yaśomatīnandana has a book, and he would like to read a few sentences from that book.

Prabhupāda: Which is that book?

Brahmānanda: Hm?

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Brahmānanda: Well, we thought that we could play a game that Dr. Patel, he could identify who has written this book.

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Dr. Patel: Please don't allow him to read. (laughter) Let us talk about Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Brahmānanda: This is Bhagavad-gītā.

Dr. Patel: You see, anything which is read out of context is no reading. You must read it reference to context. If you read some nonsense somebody must have spoken or written he's not all what he has written or spoken. So if Yaśomatīnandana reads that and Prabhupādajī talks something about the spirituality, no this moment... Because time is short and heart is long, and our heart is beating like muffled drums, so let us fulfill ourself before we die.

Prabhupāda: No, you have got your injection. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ah, yes.

Dr. Patel: So he experimented as a Christian, as a Muslim, and all, and he said he came to the same truth.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom. He experimented means he was a fool. And a fool makes experiment, one who is fool. One who knows, why he should make experiment?

Dr. Patel: Scientists do make experiments.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: You say so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't make any experiment. We don't make any. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is God." That's all. No experiment.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no method. Only method-bhaktya mam abhijanati (BG 18.55). That is method. All rascals. All rascals. Yes, all rascals.

Dr. Patel: No, sir. The Christians, they go to the temple to worship God in the same way.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say Christian and Hindus, Muslims. Anyone who is not a bhakta, he is a rascal. That's all. That is our conclusion. Therefore we say all rascals. Muḍḥa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Why should we experiment other than that?

Dr. Patel: But that is the way of bhakti, sir. My contention is this, with all my...

Prabhupāda: You cannot make.

Dr. Patel: I submit myself meekly, that...

Prabhupāda: Truth is truth. There is no experiment. Truth is truth. You cannot make experiment. "All right, let us see. The sun may rise this side." Can you do that?

Dr. Patel: I think I am not explicit to you, sir. What I mean to say is way of worshiping...

Prabhupāda: There is no other way of worshiping except bhakti.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We are Kṛṣṇian, and they are Christian. There is similarity.

Dr. Patel: Nomenclature. Christ was really a bhāgavata, I mean, in a true sense.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.

Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When he... On the cross they say he uttered, "Father, don't forsake me." That is the time he went into trance most probably. Eh? He must have gone in trance when he uttered the last words, "Father, don't forsake me." And then when he was brought down in the lap of his mother and they took him in the cave, no? Under the guard of those Italian soldiers. Then there was a big hurricane or something like that and they all ran away. And after that he was smuggled away from that place. Christ has rebuilt his father's temple in true sense, the way he spread the Christianity. The churches have degenerated in his teaching, unfortunately. It is the church. That happens with every, in every, I mean, these things, teachings. Race, this race is very bold, indeed, that God choicest race, these Jews, somehow or other.

Prabhupāda: Jews?

Dr. Patel: Really, it is God's choicest race. (laughter) They have produced wonderful people right from Christ up to Professor Einstein, very bold people, very bold indeed. They are truthful to their convictions. They would die for their convictions but they will not, I mean, budge an inch.

Brahmānanda: But they're impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Very brave. Very brave race.

Brahmānanda: They are impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Today still, those people really very brave. Very brave. It is the choicest race from God. It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda is very much pleased. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But he has no knowledge to understand it. Why he is falling down from the skyscraper and killing himself? Why? A poor man commits suicide. So if he is committing suicide he is a poor man. He is a poor man. He falsely thinking that he is rich man.

Alanath: We're printing now a book there with all the talks according to the scientists and according to the Christian philosophy what was lately in the Back to Godheads in America.

Prabhupāda: Don't write anything nonsense. It must be very solid. Otherwise, you'll be laughing stock. What you'll say, it must...

Alanath: No, just the talks you make. Just your conversations.

Aksayānanda: Your lectures only.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right. One must be confident before challenging others. Not that theoretical. Challenge is no good. In all stages he must be able to defend himself from the opposing elements. Then such challenge is all right. (break) We are confident that this soul cannot be manufactured by any material combination. Therefore we can challenge. And I can defend ourself in any stage.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why temples? Even your big, big political leaders, they distort. Why do you blame the temples?

Dr. Patel: But Christianity is distorted by the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone. That is going on.

Dr. Patel: ...those popes. However, Christ taught bhāgavata-dharma, absolute bhāgavata-dharma. It is this creation of the church, really to my mind, that the Christ is forgotten by the Western countries.

Prabhupāda: And who is remembering your Kṛṣṇa in this country?

Dr. Patel: There are a few people. I, we are not that...

Prabhupāda: In Bombay, there are so many roads, "Vivekananda road." But there is no Kṛṣṇa Road. Hm? Who is remembering Kṛṣṇa?

Dr. Patel: There is Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery, in market. Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery. (laughing) (Hindi conversation with man about Kṛṣṇa's name) Ajāmila spoke "Nārāyaṇa." You may speak in the name of your father, that his called name. Heḥ?

Prabhupāda: That is a chance; that is not...

Man: Now the Air India's plane, they have kṛṣṇa-līlā pictures.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Man: In Air India plane.

Prabhupāda: That is sense enjoyment. Only Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa is killing Kaṁsa, that picture is.... Killing Kaṁsa, that picture you won't find. Kṛṣṇa is embracing gopīs, "Ah, that is very nice!" (laughter) Because "We are doing the same thing, we are following Kṛṣṇa." That is their purpose.