Christianity (Conv. 1973)

Expressions researched:
"Catholic" |"Christian" |"Christian's" |"Christianity" |"Christianity's" |"Christians" |"Protestant"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. You have read some of my books?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." It is the government's duty to see that anyone who is professing Christian, "Why he's killing?" Immediately he should be punished that "You are professing as Christian and you are killing." This is government.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): He is the director of the (indistinct) of Hindu and Buddhist religion, from Department of Religious Affairs. His duty is to maintain and look after the development of (indistinct) expecting that all people of Indonesia that has to follow any kind of religions (indistinct) Christians, because we have also in charge for the Christianity, we have also in charge for the Muslim, or Islam, and we have also in charge for the Catholic and we have also in charge for other...

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. This is very nice.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited. And it can be... We are preaching that. We are the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for one God, one scripture, one mantra, like that, for all people of the world. And we are happy that people are accepting it in that way, very nicely. And it is very easy. It is very easy.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: Are there Christian also, or Muslim also joining this...

Prabhupāda: What's this? Can't you see? There are many Christians, many...

Scholar: Do they have to be Hindus first?

Prabhupāda: Well, why you are stressing to become Hindu and Christian? It is that education for understanding the values of life.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Any intelligent man will take it. Suppose if you want to be a great mathematician does it mean that you must be a Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan?

Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion...

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (1): They're more attached to the external form that they already have.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is which we call churchianity. Christianity, churchianity.

Devotee (1): Churchianity. (laughs)

Devotee (2): Also he may lose his position because he has no knowledge (indistinct).

Prabhupāda;: That is going on everywhere. These, our Indian people, they're not interested in God. They're interested in (Hindi), some blessing, because they can make improvement in their material position.

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So therefore these rascals come, they give them (Hindi or sounds like "asirvada", maybe referring to Sai Baba), I give them, "I am so powerful, I give you (Hindi)," and they give them money, "Oh, here is a sādhu." They'll get (Hindi) very cheaply, and make money. Instead of two lakhs, I'll make ten lakhs, by the (Hindi). And he's Sai Baba, like rogues, they come to show them some magic, that "I have got some power, I can do anything I like, and if you become my devotee, you will improve." All these yogis, everything, they do like that. Mahesh Yogi also: "Take my mantra. Within six months you become perfect man and whatever you like, you can do."

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the..., what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it. But when the Mohammedans, that we will be on equal right, they, there is a (indistinct).

Devotee (1): So there's no spiritual motive.

Prabhupāda: Later on it became political, because as soon as the spiritual power, culture become diminished, the whole thing became material. So people wanted material advantage, so separated from Vedic culture. Just like Buddhists. Buddhism was a Hindu culture. But Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal sacrifice. In the Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended under certain conditions. He even denied that, "No that also cannot be done." So therefore they are separate from Vedic culture. After all these, all these religious systems-Mohammedanism, Jewism, then Christianism, Buddhism—they are at a stage not more than 2,000 years.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (1): The Christians here, get money from America. In Bali, where there's many Hindus live, they convert many people by saying, "If you become a Christian, you'll have good economy with us."

Prabhupāda: And that is the Christian propaganda.

Devotee (1): Same in Madras.

Prabhupāda: In India, everywhere. They cannot attract people by their philosophy. It is show money, "Yes, come on, take money." (pause) Hong Kong also. (break) Very, many meat shops. Rather this vegetable,...

Devotee (1): It's expensive.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Scientists, they have proven the truth that the world is round. Therefore scientists...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be, therefore the scriptures must be transcendental. Nonsense scripture, and people become nonsense. So except Vedic literature, all nonsense scripture. They are not scripture. Manufactured. This Bible was manufactured by the saint, this saint, that, according to their imagination. It was not spoken by Lord Jesus Christ. What was spoken by Jesus Christ, that they ignore: "Thou shalt not kill." They kill. Nobody is following Christian principle; neither Bible is perfect. But that, if we say, we will be shot. (laughter)

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Well, perhaps it's because spiritual culture originates, spiritual culture is, permeates their society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is. When spiritual consciousness is presented in truth, then you become conquered. You have been already. The Christian people are astonished, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so big shape within so few years. They are afraid now. Yes. And why they shall not be? Here is science. And that is foolishness only.

Umāpati: That's their new religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "God has only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son, and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand. Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is "Thou shalt not kill."

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They have no answer. As soon as I asked this question... Yesterday also, last, that television, he also asked the same question. He has purchased all our books. So "Why this Christian religion is declined?" And "Why it will not? Why you are violating?" He could not answer. He could not answer. He will violate... All, many Christian priests ask me this question, and as soon as they put this question, they stop. They stop. They cannot answer. "Why you are killing? The first order is 'Thou shalt not kill,' and why you are killing?" They cannot answer. I asked them two questions. "Why unlimited God shall have only one son? And why you are killing?" They cannot answer. Or you answer?

Umāpati: No.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: In Newsweek Magazine-it's the largest magazine in the United States—there was an article about the degradation of Christianity, and they summarized it with a cartoon, a picture of the devil, you know māyā. This is their image of māyā. And he was causing earthquakes. There was a very large earthquake in South America. It killed many thousands of people. So they attribute this to māyā. And right next to them was a picture of Richard Nixon, because he is a very famous, you know... He presents himself as a follower of Christ. And he's bombing Southeast Asia.

Prabhupāda: "Thou shalt not kill."

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And the devil turned to Richard Nixon and said, "It's hell keeping up with Christians."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, people will criticize like that. People are becoming advanced. How long you can cheat them with so-called science, so-called religion? Now you take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously. He will give real thing. Try to understand. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, everything will be known to you. This is the process. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā—you know everything. You know everything. And that is the Vedic injunction, Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati: "By knowing Kṛṣṇa only, you know everything." That science you try to understand and preach; people will be happy. Now, our question was that we say that the man... I say man. Other living entities, they are also living entities. So in Christian religion also, they say, "The man is made after God." Is it not?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So man is the sample of God. So why don't you try, study nicely man, and you can know, understand God, what is God. I asked these Christian people, "If man is made after the image of God, you study very scrutinizingly a perfect human being, and you will know what is God."

Umāpati: The most ideal image of a human being is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So you take a perfect man. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you take a perfect man, take him as man, you see that He is God. He has got all the perfections. Even if you take him as a man.

Paramahaṁsa: No competition.

Prabhupāda: No competition. That is Bhagavān. Bhagavān means... We are giving this definition. Bhagavān means a perfect man. That's all. Now, just like man wants to wife, to have wife. So why there is, what is called, adulteration? He wants more than one wife. Just see, perfect Kṛṣṇa, He has got sixteen thousand wives, which you cannot imagine. Here is perfection. You cannot say that a man has no inclination to have more than one wife. That is there. So that propensity is, in perfection, is there in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is God.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Useful, giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow. Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they shall kill? What is the reason?

Umāpati: Uncontrollable tongue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now what is that bird who is killed in Christmas?

Devotees: Turkey.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember this in Pittsburgh last year Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that meeting with the bishops, there was a Christian father, a Catholic father. So the question raised that Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "Thou shalt not kill," in the Bible, in the Commandments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by some Christian priest in Melbourne, very good gathering. I said also the same thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think his answer was "When the Bible was written, Christ didn't mean this way." That was his answer.

Prabhupāda: Oh, He used that part. He has found out. The rascal. Beat with shoes, that what "Christian, Christ could not find out, you have found out. You are so great. Thank you very much. You are more intelligent than Christ. Oh. So why Bible. Why not write your Bible? Let us follow."

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: What is this culture? A human being is killing so many animals, innocent animals, is that culture? They are less than animals. Who kills? The tiger kills, ferocious. A human being killing innocent animals... In Christian religion, therefore: "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing only. Where is the culture? Killing culture. That is not culture. What do you think?

David Wynne: It must be so. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How a human being can kill another human being or another animal unnecessarily? And if you kill, there is law, life for life. But they have made laws for human beings. When an animal is killed, he's not criminal. But in the God laws you cannot avoid that. If you have killed an ant, you must be shot. That is God's law. You can avoid man-made law, but you cannot avoid God-made law. That you cannot do. You must be responsible. If you kill an ant even without knowledge, you are responsible. Such subtle laws are there. So we must know our responsibility. Without knowledge, if we kill, we are responsible. And with knowledge, there is no question. Where is that culture? They advertise, "Live and let live." What is that? Do they do that? Actually? They want to live at the expense of others.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: It is connected, I suppose, with the word meaning grace, which is... There is another Greek word which is "havis."(?) But I am not a theologian. You know, I am not a brilliant man who understands all the meanings of the words in the Christian faith. But I think the word Christ means anointed, and that it may well be connected with another word which means grace or favor. But I don't think it is the same word.

Prabhupāda: My idea is that if we can connect this Kristo and Christ, that "love of Godhead," there is some meaning. Because we, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are teaching people how to love God. That is our...

Mr. Wadell: To love is very difficult, is it not? It is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you try to pour water to each leaf of the tree, it will be simply waste of time. Similarly, God is the root of everything. Our Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Absolute Truth, wherefrom everything has come. So if we love the root, God, then we can love others. Otherwise not possible. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. They have tried. The so-called humanitarian work they have tried. Unity and fraternity and so on, big, big words. But it has not come to... Because there is no love of Godhead, it has failed. Even the United Nations. Central point is missing. So our Vedic injunction is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That system of religion is perfect which teaches how to love God." It doesn't matter, Christian religion, Hindu religion, Mohammedan religion, it doesn't matter. But God minus, this is the present position. Everyone wants to make minus God everything. This is going on. They have no clear idea. If I want to love you, I must have a clear idea of you. On vague idea, I cannot love. But they have no clear idea what is God. So how they can love God? And because they have failed to love God, all the so-called love, humanitarian, philanthropic works and, you know, they have become useless.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is the difference. We are maintained, and He is maintainer. That is difference. Otherwise, God is also person, I am also person. One is maintainer and others, the plural number, they are maintained. In the Christian religion also, the same idea is: "God give us our daily bread," maintenance. So that is the difference. He is the bread supplier, and we are bread eater. That's all.

Mr. Wadell: He doesn't supply his bread to everybody unless...

Prabhupāda: Everybody, yes, everybody. Beginning...

Mr. Wadell: People die, do they not?

Prabhupāda: Die, that is another thing. People die even if he has got many things to eat, still he dies. Can you check it? That does not depend on eating. There are many men. They are dying.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: Well this is a very long... We are now on a topic on which I should have to require or ask, if I put it more politely, much more time than I have. Now, I am a person with responsibility to my boys. I must go now and say our prayers in the Christian way, which...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.

Mr. Wadell: ...Well, we profess up there, which not all believe, but some do, and they must be given their chance. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that is nice.

Mr. Wadell: Will you please excuse me at this moment. I would very much like to come back and pursue this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you come often. Yes, you are welcome.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (2): Another one, Guru Maharajaji, they are taking our picture and selling all Christian books as religion education, moral education. And this is the tools. These people little cunning, eh? When it comes to my knowledge, I was almost...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): Hare Kṛṣṇa. And they are selling all these Christian books in the schools and all over.

Prabhupāda: Wherever. This is our advertisement.

Guest (2): Advertisement...

Prabhupāda: Demonstration of world religion.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): Logic... Logic is arguing, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, logic means argument, reasoning. Our logic is because Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all great persons, authorities, we accept. Our logic is simple.

Student (1): But Christians might say the same thing. They might say, "Look at the Bible, This is our logic."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. They accept God; we accept God. The only difference is they do not know who is God, but we know who is God.

Student (1): No, they know who is God.

Prabhupāda: No.

Revatīnandana: You won't get any good information about God. "God is great. God created"—finished. That's not very much information. God's son? A little more information about God's son.

Room Conversation with Guest -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest: I don't know what was the main idea of Swami Vivekananda at that time, when he preached that, this Vedānta.

Prabhupāda: No, I have read his Chicago speech. In that speech, he openly says, "Why do you care for God? You work hard, and why do you give credit to God?" Like that. Rather, one Christian priest protested...

Guest: But many times Swami Vivekananda himself went to temples and bowed down before Kālī, before Śrī Kṛṣṇa, before Śrī Bhavānī, and many other temples. He went to Kanyā-kumārī and prayed before Mother.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Distribute the prasāda. Bhagavān ka prasāda. Hm. That's all. So it is a great pleasure for us. Your Holiness visits us voluntarily. Although I could not invite you, but still, you are so kind, you came. So I am doing my bit, following in the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (1): No, I came as a Christian, not knowing anything. I still don't know really anything.

Prabhupāda: Our movement is to revive God consciousness. Just like a man is sleeping, and he has got some engagement, say, in the morning, at six o'clock. But still he's sleeping. So somebody is trying to awake him. "Get up, get up! You have got this engagement. You have..." Our movement is like that. The human society is sleeping. So we are just trying to awake them: "Get up. Get up. You have got this engagement." That is our business. It is not our manufactured business, but it is stated in the Vedic literature, uttiṣṭha jāgratā prāpta-varān nibodhata. "Now you be awakened." "Now" means "You have got this human form of life. You can now be awakened." In animal form of life there is no possibility. Therefore, in the human form of life, one should be awakened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. And if he sleeps, then he loses his business. This is our mission, to awaken him. And when a man sleeps, how he can awaken him? Simply by vibration of sound. The sleeping man can be awakened simply by this process, allowing the sound to enter the ear. By no other process. He's sleeping. If you show him a stick, "If you don't get up, I shall strike you," that will not be effective. Because sleeping. If you say... So many things... There are other senses. There will be no action.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is said... Suppose I am serving my master. I can think of, "Oh, why shall I serve him? I shall become independent." That is my freedom, little freedom. So I cannot become independent. That is not my healthy stage. Just like... Take for example, a dog. A dog is healthy when he has got a good master. And if he hasn't got a good master, he's a street dog, neglected. He's not healthy. Similarly our position is like that, that we must be dependent on God. Therefore in your Christian Bible also you go for your bread: "God, give us our daily bread." So you are dependent. So it is better to remain dependent on God than to use your so-called little freedom.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I see. Thank you. So we are approaching people to become God conscious. That's all. (Aside:) Get the light on. And in the Bhāgavata it is stated, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion which teaches people how to love God. That is first-class religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Hindu religion or Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, if it teaches the followers how to love God, then it is first-class.

Father Tanner: I think I'm almost only teaching them to love one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One another, that is going on in so many ways. You see? That has never become successful. Neither it will become successful. That is a fact. Because here the atmosphere is so surcharged with material ideas that even if I want to love you, you may not like it. That is the position here. So you cannot be successful to teach people to love one another. That will never be successful. That has never been successful. But if you can teach people how to love God.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So these devotees, they have not been separately instructed about hospitality. But because they are devotees of the Lord, this hospitality automatically they learn. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one becomes perfectly a devotee of the Lord, all the good qualities of demigods manifest automatically. The hospitality is also a good quality. So out of many good qualities, this is one of them. So these devotees, they are automatically well-behaving to the guests, newcomers on account of their advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because a Kṛṣṇa conscious person takes everyone, not only human being, but even animals, insects, trees, birds, beasts, everyone, living entities, as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So it is their duty to behave well with all living entities. Not only the human beings, but also even with the animals. Ahiṁsā. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). The ahiṁsā preached by Lord Buddha, that is also one of the qualifications of devotee. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we are preaching... Every religion preaches, but people do not follow. The Christian religion also preaches ahiṁsā: "Thou shall not kill," but they do not follow.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: I was very interested this last week to be reading a book which really was trying to defend orthodox Christianity, and it was by a very devotional Christian writer, and he, in fact, was making exactly the same points as yourself about the God consciousness of Jesus. I read the Ratha-yātrā magazine, and saw how, I think it was a nun that asked you about the position of Jesus on this, and you quite rightly said, "Well, of course, Jesus never claimed to be God." I do wish that some Christians would realize that. He was God conscious, wasn't he?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: The churches in this land seem to have forgotten that. He never claimed to be God.

Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God. We should offer respect to such person exactly like God. That is our instruction of the ācāryas.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: This is a knowing habit of the western mind, you know, to think in spatial terms, and it's possibly hang-ups from Christian theology, in a sense, that I wanted to persist with this questioning even further about, you know, the real nature, as far as the Bhagavad-gītā gives it to us.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to become little free from the biased ideas of Christian philosophy.

David Lawrence: This is what I thought, yes. This is what I thought.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise you cannot make progress.

David Lawrence: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is impossible.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If you keep the students as English boys or American boys, then it will be difficult. Then the, the cultural question will come up.

David Lawrence: Yes, yes. We try to bring in as much... In fact, now we have a new course... This is the sort of thing that's happening. (Break) ...the Jewish-Christian scriptures which do not, you know, just don't lend themselves in any way to the right sort of feelings being created and the right sort of experience being created. We found that this year's course-it's the first year-has been tremendously helpful. We brought the boys... I can't think anybody was here, but we brought the boys up to the London temple, and...

Prabhupāda: Here?

David Lawrence: Yes. Well, no, in the Bury Place. And they were thrilled to bits. We had one or two who made the usual silly comments, you know, which you'd expect. But they were embarrassed, you know. Everything that came over, which was interesting, was that they found that all the devotees were very kind, very loving and very sincere. This, this came from even really the most secular of boys with a very, very low intelligence. He could see and perceive and understand that this was how it was.

Prabhupāda: That is our general certificate, everywhere. Even the Americans, they are surprised. They inquire, "Are you Americans?" (laughter.)

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No... When we speak of Veda, Veda means knowledge. So knowledge means knowledge of God. Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, that is Vedas. Don't think that Vedas means that only the Sāma, Yajuḥ, Atharva. Those who are following the principles to give knowledge about God, that is Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu is called veda, vetti. Jñāne when there is question of knowledge, these three forms are used: vetti, veda, vido, jñāne. Vinte vid vicaraṇe vidyate vid saptāyāṁ labhe vindati vindate. (?) This is the vid-dhātu description. So vid-dhātu means to know. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. That is real knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ, all kinds of Vedas. All kinds, sarvaiḥ. So Bible can be taken as Vedas because it is trying to give knowledge about God, maybe for a certain class of men. That is another thing. But the subject matter is how to know God. So that can be taken as also, as Vedas. Because ultimate knowledge is how to know God. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So we accept Bible also as Vedas, but we simply say that they misinterpret the Biblical commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. What is this? This is my question. How they'll understand God if they are so much implicated in sinful activities? According to Vedas, there are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ. So God is purest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). How one can approach God if he leads a sinful life? That is our propagation. You give up this sinful life. Then you'll be able to understand God. You follow Christianity or Mohammedanism or Buddhism. It doesn't matter. You give up this sinful life.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is Christian idea.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. After death... But so far I know, Christian there is consideration of hell and heaven.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Somebody is going to hell, somebody's going to heaven. Is it not? After death?

Devotee: Yes, I think so.

Śyāmasundara: That was my understanding.

Devotee: That is the Christian idea.

Prabhupāda: So, if there is question of hell and heaven, then we are responsible in this life for our next life, whether we are going to hell or heaven.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: When meditation, meditation, dhyāna, it is very difficult nowadays. You chant to meditate, you think of your own business. That's another thing. So this is forced meditation: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Even if you do not want to hear, you will hear. (laughter) And there is chanting and dancing, everyone who doesn't wanted to hear they also hear.

Woman: What about people who believe in Jesus, God? I mean, what about Christians? It might not have the same effect on them.

Devotee: But Kṛṣṇa is God, and Jesus is teaching exactly what Kṛṣṇa's taught, so there is no difference to a person that has a pure heart. If we chant, all of us who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we've realized that Jesus Christ's teachings are fulfilled in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Woman: Oh, I see.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But Jesus said that he's son of God. So we say Kṛṣṇa is God. So what is the conflict? God must have a son, one or two? So he's also the son. Where is conflict? (everyone laughs).

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Conflict is there when you disobey Christ. That's why Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." All the Christians are simply killing. Where is a Christian? There is conflict. They'll support: this killing is this, this isn't that, this isn't that (?). They want to kill. That's all. That is conflict. If you actually follow the tenets of Christianity, there is no conflict. But if you do not follow, at the same time you say you are not Christian, there is conflict. It is clearly stated—I've asked so many Christians—that "Why do you kill?" Christ said "Thou shalt not kill." They want to support their killing process in so many ways. They'll never agree that "Yes, Christ says not to kill. We should stop it." No. They want to support it by various interpretations. That is conflict. Clear word is there, "Thou shalt not kill." And why they're maintaining so many slaughterhouses?

Woman: But it's the same with Arjuna, wasn't it?

Prabhupāda: But you are talking of Christianity. Don't talk of Arjuna now. If you talk of Christianity, don't take support from Arjuna. You talk of Christianity. It is clear statement, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing? "Thou shalt not covet." And illicit sex and illicit man and woman intermingling is going on.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no life. A simple thing, that if you disobey the orders of Lord Christ, how will you become a Christian, first of all? Where is your Christianity? Simply rubber-stamping "I'm Christian" you become a Christian, without following the tenets?

Reporter: Same as you were saying, Nehru was not a brāhmaṇa, but only because he was called brāhmaṇa. So...

Prabhupāda: No, why Nehru? Everyone.

Reporter: Everyone.

Prabhupāda: Everyone. Unless he follows the principles of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, how he becomes one? Therefore we have concluded everyone is a śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ.

Reporter: (laughs)

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That was the only place in the world there was no such sound. Otherwise everywhere. In America we have got so many temples. Even in West Virginia, hilly tract, there is also aeroplane. But less sound. Here it is near London, there must be. Yes.

Jesuit Priest: Have you met Mother Theresa?

Prabhupāda: Who is Mother Theresa?

Devotee: She's a Christian mystic.

Revatīnandana: She's a Christian nun, and she has a mission in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Saint Theresa?

Revatīnandana: Mother Theresa.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So to understand God or how to love God, there is religious system. In every civilized human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Mohammedanism or Buddhism, the aim, religious system is there in human society besides the education of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is there in the animal society. So a human being is distinct from the animal when he has education how to understand God and how to love Him. That is perfection.

Mother: Well, you've got a good tape there now, haven't you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Mother: You've got a good tape there now. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is now wanting. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not depriving people of their education. You get education how to eat, how to sleep, and that's all right. But side by side, you take education how to know God and how to love Him. That is our proposition.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But where is that education?

Mother: But we... You can also work and think.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, where is that education in the university to prepare the student for the next life?

Mother: Oh, but he must fit it in.

Jesuit Priest: All the Catholic Universities all over the world are doing it. That's our main purpose, is to teach the young man and the young girl the success in this world, but above all,...

Prabhupāda: Then the next question...

Jesuit Priest: ...is the success in the next, which means union with God for eternity. That's top priority.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: Well, I wouldn't know. Because, I would say, because there's some kind of inadequacy in their lives. There's something missing, and that, the thing which is missing, is what we in the Catholic Church call the life of grace, the supernatural. Somehow, something's gone wrong somewhere. And so, they, lots of the young people today...

Prabhupāda: That, that I was trying to explain, that nobody can understand God and God's conception, being sinful.

Jesuit Priest: There's a vacuum created, and so they'd rather take it up in...

Mother: It's very extraordinary, though, that every boy that I have spoken to here...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam... (BG 7.28).

Mother: ...have all taken LSD or drugs of some kind.

Prabhupāda: ...janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām.

Revatīnandana: That was one who hasn't.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: In this way. So we invite anyone, everyone, without any distinction, without any discrimination. He may be Christian, he may be Hindu, he may be Mohammedan. "Come on. Live with us, and learn how to love." That is our mission. We say, according to our Vedic description,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

If you actually want peace of your mind, then you must try, you must learn how to love God. So our preaching is... It doesn't matter, whatever religion you are following, it doesn't matter. If you have achieved this aim, how to love God, then your system is first-class. That's all. That is our question. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Bhakti, means love of God. How much you have learned to love God, that much we want to know. We don't say that "You are Christian, you become followers of Hindu rituals or Mohammedan rituals." No. You remain in your position, but just try to love God to the best of your capacity.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: Most people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our mission. Now, if you find it difficulty, you can come and join with us. That's all. Practically, in Europe and America, they are all coming from Christian group, Jewish group. So... Yes. This is a recent photograph of our Los Angeles center. They are regularly living in the temple, as they are living in the temple.

Mother: Hm.

Prabhupāda: And you'll also be surprised to know that this, this was a church, that building. It was a big church. So we have purchased it.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming here.

Jesuit Priest: Very nice to come here, and congratulations for...

Prabhupāda: No, our only proposal is that you try to love God. That's all. God is one. God is neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor Christian. God is God. So let us love God. That's all. That is perfection of life.

Mother: Well, you can rest assured, we do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do that.

Mother: Yes, we do that.

Prabhupāda: That is our...

Jesuit Priest: I wouldn't have given up my life to Him fifty-two years ago to be a Jesuit priest unless I loved God, would I?

Prabhupāda: No. Unless you love God, how you have become priest?

Jesuit Priest: And I'm not only one, but there happen to be thirty-three thousand of us in the world.

Prabhupāda: Because you have become a priest, that means you love God.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Instead of making the state center, make God center.

Popworth: Do you think that the Christian monasteries practiced this in the past, or perhaps even today?

Haṁsadūta: Well, today, no one is practicing it. Otherwise why people are leaving the church? No one is in the monastery, no one is in the church. They are abandoning it. Because there is no center. As soon as there is a center, it will carry weight. Just like a wheel. If there's a hub, if there's a hub, that it will carry weight.

Popworth: I have not abandoned the church. I have embraced it.

Haṁsadūta: Anyway, our point is... We're speaking in general. In general, because the center, factually the center, God, is missing, somehow or other, He's missing, therefore people are also giving it up. They can't take it. Because it's not practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is practical. It's not a sentiment or a dry philosophy. It's a practical philosophy of life, absolute philosophy of life, how to do everything without any pollution, without any contamination. Just like we are experiencing by our so-called advancement that we have created so many modern facilities for comfort, but the result is, alongside, simultaneously, there's an equal disadvantage. Just like we create a motor car. But we create air pollution. Or you create a highway. But you have to create snowplow to clear the highway. You have to create police. You have to create so many other things.

Prabhupāda: And there is list of accidents, injuries.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just for example, that in the Ten Commandments, the first Commandment is "Thou shall not kill." So when I ask any Christian gentleman, "Then why you are killing?" they cannot give me any satisfactory answer. (pause)

Revatīnandana: How does the, how does the process of animal slaughter in the slaughterhouse as we find it today, how does it fit in your philosophy for, say, changing the society? Where do you put that in your philosophy?

Schumacher: Well, I think one should try and do without it. You can't everywhere do without it. It's like all nonviolence. It's a direction of movement, to try to do your utmost to go as far as...

Revatīnandana: So wherever possible, the slaughtering business should not go on.

Schumacher: That's right. But the Eskimos, for instance...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: When there is no food, so human life is more important than animal life. So the human life should be saved at the sacrifice of animals. That is another question. But where there is complete facilities to get very nice, nutritious food, why these poor animals should be killed?

Revatīnandana: But in the last week we've had a Jesuit priest, a Black Friar's monk, several other theologically inclined Christian gentlemen have been here, and not one of them has assented to that statement. They do not agree. They think that...

Prabhupāda: They do not agree that animal killing is sinful. They do not agree.

Schumacher: It's a very long question, isn't it. I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, it is a simple question. Killing, do you think killing is very good business? Then why it is forbidden, "Thou shall not kill."

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Buddhist, Christian or Hindu. It is common sense philosophy.

Schumacher: The Buddhists have a good compromise on this. They say you can eat meat...

Prabhupāda: No, no strict Buddhist will say.

Schumacher: ...but because you're not allowed to kill animals for eating meat.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Schumacher: So they let the Muslims kill the animals.

Revatīnandana: Let the Muslims kill, and if I take... If the Muslims kill the animal, and I take the meat, I become animal-killer.

Schumacher: Well, that is...

Revatīnandana: If I sell the meat if I cook the meat, if I distribute the meat if I eat the meat I'm the same as the man who slaughters the animal. This is Vedic... There's a Vedic verse that explains it.

Vicitravīrya: As a matter of course.

Prabhupāda: Eight kinds of criminals. In killing animals, there are eight kinds of criminals. That he has explained. One who is killing, one who is ordering, one who is purchasing, one who is eating, one who is cooking, in this way... Just like if a man is killed. If a man is killed and there are so many persons implicated, it does not mean that only one who has killed, he becomes criminal. All others who are implicated in that killing business, they are criminals. This is pollution.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What Christianity says about this plan?

Cardinal Danielou: Christianity thinks that creation is the work of the love of God, and the signification of creation is that God wants to partake His richness, His joy, His beauty with free spirit and the goal of the creation is essentially the realization of this communion with God, the communion with God. Alors, the visible world is without great importance. It is an appearance. But there is a reality in human person, in human personality, because human personality is, has a...

Yogeśvara: If you like I can translate. (Paraphrase)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. You understand, you understand what I say? Or not very well? (French)

Prabhupāda: So the creation... We are, we all living entities, we are also part and parcel of God.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: When, when the living entity forgets love of God, he's given this material world.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes yes, I agree. Christianity agrees with this.

Prabhupāda: The exact word, in Bengali, there is a poet,

kṛṣṇa-bhuliyā-jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyāra tare jāpaṭiyā dhare

As soon as the living entity forgets his position as eternal servant of God, and he wants to imitate God to enjoy, at that time, māyā, illusion, or Satan captures him, captures him.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Is true. The man must imitate God, imitating His bounty, His...

Prabhupāda: Power.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Guru, yes. That is the very word used. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). One revives his God consciousness by the mercy of God and guru.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, in Christianity, we speak of spiritual fathers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cardinal Danielou: Spiritual father, spiritual father. We... He is a man who has a good experience of spiritual things and communicate his experience to others.

Prabhupāda: Yes, oh, yes. (etc.)

Cardinal Danielou: You know. We are in Christianity monks, monks. We live in monastery.

Prabhupāda: Ah, monks.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: But you have a great interest in France amongst (about) the yoga, monk, Indian method of prayer, a great interest. And we, we think that the method of prayer are the same in the various religions. We have in Christian faith method of meditation of interior, interiorite, of silence.

Bhagavān: What is the, what is the program that Christianity has for giving people in general this experience that they're missing?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. Bien. Cest, nous avons... We have today many community of prayers where young men go together and in the monastery or in the... N'est ce pas? And pray together with alternative of silence and of lectures, of some text of the Bible and of the gospel, you know. Because we, we think that the life of Jesus is the model or the shape, and we like that Jesus is the manifestation of God. He is the way, the way. Because it is necessary to find God, who is hidden, to have a way, to have a way. And for ourself, Jesus is the way to go to the hidden God. You know, you know. The imitation of Jesus is, for a Christian, the ideal, imitation of his poverty, of his goodness, of his love of God.

Yogeśvara: He says the ideal of Christianity is to imitate these various qualities of Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I think it is the character specific of Christianity, the importance of the person of Jesus. Jesus is the perfect model, you know, of the virtues, and it is apply the model on the savior because we think that Jesus is not purely man. He is a manifestation of God. God is gone amongst us to help the man to find Him. We know that the man research God, but his capacity of find, and is necessary that God come to help the man to find Him.

Bhagavān: We call that guru.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. And Jesus, Jesus is this. So I am very, very glad to meet you...

Prabhupāda: May, may I ask you one question? Jesus says: "Thou shalt not kill." So why Christian people are killing?

Cardinal Danielou: (French)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: It is forbidden in Christianity to kill.

Room Conversation with German and Hamsaduta dasa -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Haṁsadūta: In the Christian teachings... (German)

Guest: Neither a picture of Him nor a likeness, likeness

Prabhupāda: So why they have got image of Christ?

Haṁsadūta: (German conversation)

Prabhupāda: Why, why they keep Lord Jesus Christ's picture?

Haṁsadūta: (German conversation)

Prabhupāda: No, what is the philosophy. I am asking. What is the philosophy of keeping...?

Guest: (German conversation)

Haṁsadūta: He says he doesn't know.

Guest: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Then why do you object of Kṛṣṇa's form.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But aim is that his life, everyone's life is meant for spiritual realization. So to, in order to achieve this end of life he must be kept in peaceful condition of life.

Yogeśvara: He asks: "In order to achieve these goals is it our intention to do like the Christians and make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side. Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And they are living very happily. You can see from their face. Yes. They are known as bright-faced. Yes. Many, I mean, Christian priests, they came to congratulate me: "Swamiji, how you have made your disciples so jolly and bright-faced?" The government in America, they are surprised, that even after spending millions of dollars, they could not drive away LSD intoxication. And as soon as a intoxicated person comes to our camp, he not only gives up LSD and liquor, he gives up even smoking, drinking tea and coffee. So why not experiment this movement. The greatest socialist movement. If you want to get the socialistic idea, we can give you. Would you like to take?

Reporter: Oh, I don't trust. I could trust. Yeah. But...

Prabhupāda: Our socialistic idea, you can note down...

Reporter: I have nothing to lose but do you think you could manage all society very complex, as our...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it is, we are discussing this point, that this illusion is going on. But human form of life, a human being can get out of this illusion. We have got sufficient sources of knowledge, especially in the Vedic knowledge. So why do we not take advantage of this knowledge and make our life successful? Yes. That is my proposal. And we are struggling with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with this purpose only, that these people are missing the point and wasting their time and life unnecessarily under some illusion. To try to save them, that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (break) ...talked with so many Christian priests. Naturally while discussing I asked them that "In your Bible it is said, 'Thou shall not kill.' Why you are maintaining slaughterhouse?" They cannot answer properly. In this way and this way they try to avoid and support this slaughterhouse.

Dr. Inger: It's difficult to answer it.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: When I asked a group of priests at a meeting which was to celebrate the anniversary of a leading Catholic thinker, I.R. Shadder(?), I just asked him about the Sermon on the Mount, referring to similarities between the teachings of Sermon on the Mount and Hindu thought. He says, "You see, but the point is this, that the Sermon on the Mount is not meant for everybody. It is only meant for a very few. And therefore most of us, including the present company," he said, "cannot use it in everyday life." I said, "Do you mean it is only meant for monks?" He hesitated but said, "If you like, yes." But I said, "I imagined that this was meant for everyone and that anyone could follow it." And he said, "Well, it is too dangerous a teaching to give to everyone."

Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence. That is his theory, like Darwin's theory, that life is from matter or chemical. So after hearing the lecture, there is a professor also, a student, yes. He is also Doctor of Chemistry. He is my disciple. He inquired that "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?" At that time he said, "That I cannot say." Just see. He is proposing that "From these chemicals, life has begun," and when he is questioned whether by supplying these chemicals he can produce a life, he said, "That I cannot say." This is going on. Then what is the... Then, if you cannot say, then why you are saying that from these chemicals life has come? So when they are caught up for practical purposes, they'll deny. And they are passing on as philosopher, as scientist, priest, and these things. Just see.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: And even you people you have to have people donate like we have the Catholic church...

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is...

Anna Conan Doyle: ...is to make from the people are working, we are dependent on the materialistic man also...

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is that we are not satisfied with our living condition. Suppose I am, I have got this body. To maintain this body, I require my food, and for getting the food, I must have some money. I must have some occupation. This is one thing. But people are now... Suppose one thousand francs will provide his family, himself. He's not satisfied with one thousand francs. He wants ten thousand. That is the fault. Therefore he does not find time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Anna Conan Doyle: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the disease. Otherwise, if, if everyone is satisfied when the necessities is supplied and balance time he saves for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no difficulty. But he is, he is always, twenty-four hours busy, how to increase, how to increase.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But if you cannot describe what is that ultimate goal, then how others can be attracted? (break)

Yogeśvara: ...but in their society they have many different religions, many different groups, and they don't ask anyone to leave being Christian or Jew or Muslim or Hindu or anything like that.

Prabhupāda: So we are not asking in that way. We are asking, "What is that ultimate goal?" (break)

Yogeśvara: ...ultimately, by following a process that the Rosicrucian order gives its students, one reaches the goal.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Suppose if I am going to London. So unless I am interested to go to London, what is the use of knowing how to go to London?

Yogeśvara: Their students feel the need for this ultimate perfection and that's why they come to the movement.

Prabhupāda: But if he does not know what is ultimate perfection, this is bogus.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated.

Room Conversation with French Nun -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...ordinary son. And he's powerful son.

Yogeśvara: ...question. She asks what is the difference between our understanding of reincarnation and the Christian concept of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christ said he would come again. Is there a difference? Is it the same thing?

Prabhupāda: I don't find anything.

Yogeśvara: There was this gentleman this afternoon who was asking you about people who are constantly, constantly being tested by all kinds of miserable circumstances. She asks: Is it not a sign of a soul that God has chosen to favor that he sends them such miserable conditions of material life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, in miserable condition, they accept it as a favor of God.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Here is the gigantic ratha behind the crowd. The police cooperate.

Professor: Oh, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone likes. Yes. Even Christian priests they also like. No, any sane man will like because... Somebody sends me money: "Sir, you are doing so nice work, spreading God consciousness. Here is my little contribution."

Professor: I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From your, these Western countries. Just week before, I got hundred dollars from one gentleman. Simply appreciated that I am spreading God consciousness. So actually we have no program of proselytizing or making Hindu from Christian, Christian... We have no such program. We simply want to see that everyone is God conscious. Never mind through which venue, he becomes a God conscious. It doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: One day it's in, and the next day it's out. And while it's in, everybody claps and applauds. One or two other points, perhaps I can raise one or two of them. Some of them are longer in fact. An interesting thing that came out of my study of the Christian, or certainly the Jewish tradition, and I wondered, really, on your views on this, whether it relates at all to the Indian one. It seems when you get to the really high spot of Jewish religion, which many people consider the prophets of Judah...,

Prabhupāda: What is their high spot?

David Lawrence: Well, exactly,(laughs) that is, in inverted commas.

Prabhupāda: They are rotting in the lowest spot, still. What is their high spot?

David Lawrence: Let's think, somebody like, perhaps Isaiaḥ or somebody like this who was a universalist and uh...

Prabhupāda: Somebody, somebody says so many things...

David Lawrence: Yes, that's right. Oh yes, I mean if you take them, they all differ in their views. But one of the things, one of the themes that comes through is the idea that...

Prabhupāda: Therefore the gentleman the other day was asking, "How is that you say electricity?" Oh you were not present that time? Because we have translated there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity in the spiritual world. So when he heard the word electricity, he became astonished.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): I have been seeking all my life, and I expect when I was about twenty-two I became a convert from Judaism to the Christian Church. And of recent years, as a result of a very serious illness, a heart attack, I began to get other experiences which took me right away from all this knowledge, but no wisdom. I gathered a lot of knowledge, to the extent that I was, well, I was getting nowhere. I knew all about God, but didn't know what He, who He was. I knew all about Him though. Then I was led to understand a lot of other things which did not come by reading. I couldn't tell you. They just came. Thoughts, from wherever they were, they came. So I am now currently at the stage where I acknowledge that the certainty of this world isn't worth knowing about.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): We've got to live here of course. It seems to me almost daily that the next processes in life are the much more interesting and exciting ones. But when I hear you speak of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, I know nothing about these people. So now where do I start?

Prabhupāda: You have to start from Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So far I understand, the Christians give explanation that Christ took the resultant action of sinful life of everyone and he condoned by his giving his own life. Is that not?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It is.

Prabhupāda: So...

Haṁsadūta: But I think the idea is that on one condition, that the people, anyone who is Christian, they agree to follow his commandment, his order, which is so many things—thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery-on that condition, he gave his life in the service of God on this condition, to teach this message. Anyone who would accept him, they would become free from sin...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: From practical life, just like world's principal religion, Christianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Mohammedanism also, the principle of not killing is there, every religion. Buddhism, they're completely for not killing. No circumstances, at any circumstances killing is not allowed. Similarly, in Vedic religion, killing is not allowed, but at circumstances, it is allowed. Similarly Christianity, they also say, "Thou shall not kill." Mohammedans also, they allow killing, but circumstantially. So the principle of killing is forbidden every religion, every religion. So the principle of religion is one. Take for example, in every religion there is acceptance of God and religion means to abide by the order of God. So how there can be two religions? There cannot be two religions. "I believe like that, we believe like that." These are man-made. But actual religion is that God is one and religion means the orders, the law given by God. That's all. Simple definition. Just like state is one, government is one, and to become good citizen means to abide by the laws of the government. That's all. Those, one who is abiding by the laws of God, he is perfect religionist. It doesn't matter whether he's a Hindu, he's a Muslim or a Christian. Whether he has got proper sense what is meant by God and what is the order of God. Then he is religionist, perfect religionist.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Guest: As you say, there are many oceans. The Christians say, "In my father's house are many mansions." A Chair. (indistinct) Good enough?

Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down.

Guest: This has come a long way from the Barrier Reef, the Pacific. These shells. The shells.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Guest: From the Pacific. From the Barrier Reef, Australia. You know the Barrier Reef?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Yes, that's where they come from, the Barrier Reef.

Prabhupāda: I have seen the reef.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Professor: Well, well, to some extent it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No, every extent. Anyone, anyone calling... So many philosophy or ism, he has got leader. That you cannot avoid. The Buddhists, they are following Lord Buddha. Christians, they are following Lord Jesus Christ. Mohammedans, they are following Mohammed. Similarly the communists, they are following Lenin, or Max. What is?

Devotees: Marx.

Paramahaṁsa: Karl Marx.

Prabhupāda: Karl Marx.

Professor: But, of course, in Sweden, most people, they don't, they don't follow anybody. So it's... I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, they follow. At least, one follows himself. Is it not? "Don't follow anyone" means he follows himself. He has got a particular philosophy, and he's the leader.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: No, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are Muslim, and, it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty. You cannot give up religion. Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government's duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous, "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Your Eminence, I agree, but I think the duty of the government primarily is to provide conditions in which gifted people, spiritual people like you, leaders like you, can function. More than that, if the government does, it might probably even corrupt the religious... I don't know. Like an umpire in a game, you know, or something... Provide the conditions, provide the conditions for free speech. Not like Moscow, you know, where it is...

Prabhupāda: No. That is... Just like you have got the Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, common share, or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors? Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector. They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion. They may be neutral that whatever religion you profess, government has nothing to do. You do nicely. But it is the government's duty to see that you are doing nicely, you are not bluffing. That is government's duty.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one has got faith and devotion to God, God is one... God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is one. So religion means according to... Not according to... This is the Vedic conclusion.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

One must be religious. Without being religious, he cannot be satisfied. Therefore there is confusion, dissatisfaction all over the world because, because people have become irreligious. If you want to keep... In Calcutta, there was, in the American Consulate Office, I was invited. There, they have got a department: "Indo-American Cultural Society." Perhaps you know.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But others, they say that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I believe in God," but he does not know anything.

Ambassador: I'm afraid most of us are like that, to be honest. That's true.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) I should say that Moscow are gentlemen. Because they cannot understand, they say, "Don't believe."

Ambassador: It's mūḍha-dhī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But these rascals, they say, "Yes, I'm religious," but he's doing most irreligious activities. You see? I asked the Christian so many times that "Your Bible says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' Why you are killing?" They cannot give any satisfactory answer. This is my experience. It is clearly said, "Thou shalt not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouses. What is this? The other day in London, one lady, she was showing me... She... You were present? Broke some grass blade?

Haṁsadūta: Oh yes, I was present.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Breaking a grass blade is equal to keeping a big, organized slaughterhouse. Just see.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: They give this example that: "You also kill vegetables, just this grass blade is broken. It is killed. So it is equal to maintaining a big slaughterhouse." You see? This is going on, under the name of re... They, they were Christian nuns. In London they come to me, talk some time. So... And in India also, we see now cow killing is going on, regular slaughterhouse and... What can I say? You are government man. (laughs) You may take some wrong views about me. What is your opinion, personal?

Ambassador: I'm afraid I'm a very democratic person. If people, if they sincerely believe that they cannot exist without meat, they should be permitted, and once that is granted...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Ambassador: ...you have to organize slaughterhouses.

Prabhupāda: Then, then that is the, our misfortune that we have lost our Indian culture.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: The Protestant movement also, when they broke away from the Catholic church, the kings would protect the movement and fight to protect.

Prabhupāda: It is king's duty.

Ambassador: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: But we are... We are small people. We can only, we cannot go beyond the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I know.

Ambassador: But as individuals we'd be very happy to...

Prabhupāda: No, even if we approach higher authorities... Our men in New Delhi saw Indira Gandhi.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: I do not know why. The Christian missionaries, they get missionary visa.

Ambassador: But I would... If you permit me, I am still, if I find a rule, rights, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll be very happy to write a very strong letter to the Deputy Secretary concerned and also...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, in whatever way you can help. This is a difficulty for me, that there are chasing after our men.

Ambassador: I personally think that there is not much reason to... Because we are allowing...

Prabhupāda: There is no reason at all.

Ambassador: And this is the... Hypocritical.

Prabhupāda: If, if they're giving missionary visa to the Christian missionaries, what we have done? So kindly be seriously thinking and, if possible, give us. So he'll go in the afternoon and see him. If he's able, then we can send some men. And many men, they're prepared to go to India. But this botheration. They'll go, after spending so much money, and they'll be chased. That has become a problem. Otherwise I have told some years ago that "Sometimes you'll have to import brāhmaṇas from this place."

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this gentleman is Dr. Christian...

Devotee: Hauser?

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, I see. And he's a very good friend of Gauracandra. He's a devotee from Amsterdam. And he's a professional psychiatrist.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda's just saying his mantra, Gāyatrī.

Paramahaṁsa: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: So very glad to see you.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Oh yes. But that's very often a symptom of a, of a psychosis that they feel that they are persecuted by, by foreign powers or by...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Foreign powers, yes. So this is called ghostly haunted. So our material conception of life, this is also ghostly haunted, madness. "I am Christian. I am Hindu. I am Muslim. I am Englishman. I am German." These are all conception of ghostly haunted. Because spirit soul is pure. In the Vedic language it is said: asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The spirit soul has no connection with such designations. Just like in dream we see so many things. But it has nothing to do with me. So this is night dream. At night, we forget all these things about the day dream. "I am this, I am that. I am this family-member. I am his father. I am his husband." And so on, so on. At night, when dream, are in a different situation. And we forget everything. And again, in daytime, we forget everything of the night dream. We come another dream. So this is also dream. That is also dream. I am simply observing. In daytime I am seeing some dream, gross dream, and at nighttime I'm seeing some subtle dream. But seer, I am. Under different condition, I am seeing different things. I think you treats this madness. He's sees things in different way, in different positions.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.

Reporter (3): Yes, but what do you see happening to the actual world? Do you see any... You know, with Christianity and other religions?

Prabhupāda: Eh, what is that?

Reporter (3): You know, with Christianity and other religions, the world has...

Prabhupāda: The Christianity, if you...

Reporter (3): ...a beginning and an end.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We also believe that, that the world has a beginning, and it has an end. Anything material. Just like my body, your body. It has got a beginning from the father, mother, and again it will end. So anything material, it has beginning and end. But the, within the body, the spirit soul, the spirit soul has no beginning, no end.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who says that: "I am God," he's a rascal.

Reporter (3): Yes. Right. And what about the young Christian Revival?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Reporter (3): The Jesus Movement?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Haṁsadūta: The Jesus Movement. What about it?

Prabhupāda: Jaybees?

Haṁsadūta: Jesus. Jesus Movement.

Prabhupāda: I do not know. I do not know.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Śaiva religion or...?

Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: But do you think for instance, in this country, if somebody is a Protestant, or I mean a Christian and goes to church, this is also, you don't try to convert them away from that?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have no such process (indistinct).

Prof. Gombrich: Because your movement is extremely distinctive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't try to convert. Just like one gentlemen was asking, "Why these ladies, girls, they are putting Indian sari?" I never said that "You do that." But they're doing out of their own accord. So I never canvassed to become a Hindu, or like that, no. Our propaganda is, "Just become God conscious." (end)

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Acyutānanda: Yeah, they protest organized religion. Anything in the society, Catholic Church...,

Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?

Acyutānanda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Choṭa Haridāsa, and rejected by Mahāprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission. Vivekananda has given preached, Yata mata tata patha, Rajneesh also, a mata. They have got also followers. Everyone can manufacture his own way of religion.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We don't find anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You should concentrate, meditate in darkness." We take it as bogus. No religious system, even in Christianity, there is no such thing as darkness. Christian churches are very much illuminated. They pray. Prayer is there. The necessity. Why in darkness? That is his invention. Neither in Hinduism, neither in Buddhism, there is such recommendation that "You pray in the darkness." Therefore it is bogus. Not standard. Why darkness? Naturally, if you make this room dark, you will feel sleepy. That is natural tendency.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: He is Christian, she is Mohammedan, she is Buddhist. Secular government means government should give protection to the Hindu, to the Muslim, to the Christian, to the Buddhist. But it is the government's duty to see that no one is cheating.

(Prabhupāda and guests converse in Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Government's duty to see that people may not become cheated. (Hindi) Let me speak in English, so they can follow.

Guest: So they can follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Take for example a man is representing himself as brāhmaṇa but he's doing something else. That should be stopped. You are doing the business of a śūdra, why you are claiming as brāhmaṇa? This is government duty.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: One has to understand that a lady should be respectfully called as mother. You call as mātā or mother, it doesn't matter. Yes, some rascals inquire from them that, "Do you know Sanskrit?" Where is the condition that unless one knows Sanskrit he cannot be a devotee? Where is that condition?

Guest: In the same way you see early Christians inquired, "Do you know Latin?" And that's why the whole of England wrote it and said we will do only in English.

Prabhupāda: So, one bābājī... I think that you were in Surat?

Devotee:: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You were Surat? He was asking, that bābājī, that, "Learn Sanskrit then you'll understand Bhagavad-gītā." So I immediately asked him that, "You go away, you go away from this place."

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes, Vaiṣṇava is, if one man is real Vaiṣṇava. Just like see Jesus Christ. It is said that he took everyone's sins and he was crucified. So how much merciful he is, just see. But these rascals have taken, that "Let us go on committing sinful activities, and Christ has taken contract. He will suffer. And we shall do this." Such rascals. You see. They say that "Our Christian religion is so good that even we commit sinful acts, Christ will suffer, we shall not suffer." Just see.

Bali Mardana: I was reading yesterday in the Newsweek that now the priests, they are dating with women and having sex.

Prabhupāda: They must have because they have no spiritual knowledge. Anyone who is not spiritually advanced, he cannot avoid the sex.

Hṛdayānanda: You said yesterday, adānta-gobhiḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big yogis, they fell victim to sex. Viśvāmitra Muni, many other instances! Saubhari, Saubhari Muni. He was meditating within the water, and some fish just, what is called, licked up, his gender.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Wireless, radio.

Prabhupāda: Yes, radio. That was Jagadisha Candra Bose's discovery. But the government will not give the credit to the Indians. Because Jagadisha Candra Bose happened to be Indian. These Britishers they are so much envious. Therefore they will never admit that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. They bring all within the Christian period. That is their rascaldom.

Jayādvaita: We went to a college and gave a class last week where the professor was saying that the Bhagavad-gītā is only two thousand years old, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will never accept it.

Yaśomatīnandana: One stupid guy was saying that there is some quotation in the Bhagavad-gītā from Book of John.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another rascaldom. Tava cārjuna.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything may be nice. Because Kṛṣṇa says: mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ: "Everyone is trying to approach Me, but one who has approached two steps, he cannot say that he's equal to the person who has approached hundred steps."

Hṛdayānanda: Well, then they will say that everyone... The Christians would say that they're on the top step, and the Buddhists say they're on the top step.

Prabhupāda: No, they may say, but if Kṛṣṇa is God, what He says, that we'll have to accept, what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior than Me." That you have to accept. Everyone will say, "I am very good." But is that the fact, that everyone is very good? There is comparative, superlative degrees. Just like shopkeepers, they say, "All my goods are good." They are competition. One has to judge. That comparative study... What the highest Buddha philosophy? Ahiṁsā. Ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That is our preliminary study. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). There are many other things after ahiṁsā. They do not know this.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one should follow the standard morality. When that standard set is lacking or it fails to understand, then people try to speculate their own thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Nobody's following any standard. Just like these Western people, mostly Christians. It is clearly stated in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." They're simply killing. Their only business is killing.

Bali Mardana: And divorce.

Prabhupāda: And divorce.

Bali Mardana: It says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: There's a group called Christian Scientists. They say God is not a person. He's simply a principle, a principle of truth, beauty, all these, just qualities.

Prabhupāda: But show the example, what is that principle?

Karandhara: What is the meaning of principle without person?

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of principle? Show me. You are talking nonsense.

Prajāpati: They say He's a principle is...

Prabhupāda: As soon as you call "principle," there must be a person. There must be a person. Otherwise, there is no principle.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the West, there's what's known as Protestant Ethic, which means you work hard like a dog and a cat.

Karandhara: And enjoy, enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is done by the pigs. Whole day, finding out "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he eats some stool, gets some fat, "Where is sex? Never mind, mother, sister, or daughter. Come on, sex." This is pig life, pig civilization. It is not human civilization. This kind of behavior is found amongst the pigs, amongst the dogs. Do you think we have to create a human society like the pigs' society? At the present moment, they're eating anything and everything like pigs, and they're having sex with anyone, never mind. So it is a pig society. There is no discrimination. (break) ...the most popular thing is this drinking, eating meat and drinking wine.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Prabhupāda, many theologians will say privately that they believe in God or they want to believe in God but they cannot speak of God to the common people because the people are so agitated, they don't want to hear of God.

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking. We are speaking to the common man. We do not hesitate. We say, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, God."

Prajāpati: The most active or the most powerful of the theologians, they are very, very conservative Christian, and they say, though, that if they believe in Jesus, they cannot hear of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Why? If they are actually theologians, why they should not hear? Jesus Christ says that he's the son of God. But why not of the father. And what is this?

Karandhara: They make reference to one... He supposedly said that he was the only way, that no man could come to God the father except through Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so we accept the only way. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa. Take Bible, yes.

Prajāpati: But they will quote a reference in the Bible that says, "No other book."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, don't accept no other book. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he also said, Prabhupāda, that "God, the heavenly father, who is greater than me, He has sent me here."

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is Bible. Yes. Here is. Practically nowadays there is no Christian. All heathens. Yes. Because they are... Therefore we are purchasing so many churches. And there are so many for sale. Nobody is going to. In London I have seen. Hundreds of churches are... some neighbor. Nobody goes. Only the churchtaker and the so-called one or two neighboring old women, that's all. So it is gone. Christian religion is now gone.

Yaśomatīnandana: Also, Prabhupāda, Christ never said himself that he's dying for their sins. But this is the later disciples of Christ, they claim that Christ has died for their sins.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? This is the fact?

Prajāpati: That's fact, yes.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: It's better sometimes to approach a person with no religion, Prabhupāda, than to approach a Christian.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: These Christians are very blasphemous.

Prajāpati: Very blasphemous.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: Party spirit.

Prabhupāda: No no, what is their value? When they are sanctioning abortion, homosex, now they are finished. They have no value.

Karandhara: Well, most or a greater proportion of the traditional Christians condemn homosex and abortion. A good quantity of the traditional Christians, they condemn abortion and homosex.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that Pope is disgusted... Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present moment. All animals. We don't blame only the Christians. The Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property. We shall not allow." So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement. You should ask, theologician, the government, "What kind of trust? Is it scientific trust, or simply...?" They do not trust even in... So-called Christians, they do not trust in Jesus Christ. But they are going on as Christian, as priest. Cheating and bluffing should be stopped. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals are flourishing by cheating and bluffing. This business should be stopped.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...Christmas, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They'd be better off celebrating the fact that you're here.

Prabhupāda: I say that they are not Christian. They're all atheists. Christians, one who is actually Christian, he's good. But they are not Christians. They do not believe in Christ. Neither in his words. So what kind of Christian they are?

Hṛdayānanda: They're such rascals that some of the young student so-called Christians, they even preach that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, any Hindus, so-called Hindu, if he does not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, what kind of Hindu he is? He's a rascal. He's a rascal.

Prajāpati: In days gone by, there were pious Christians who tried to follow in the footsteps of saintly persons, but there are no more...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Christians must be always pious.

Prajāpati: There are no more...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be impious Christian or pious Christian. Christian must be pious. If somebody's impious, then he's not Christian. (break) ...impious thief cannot be. Thief is always impious. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (break)

Prajāpati: ...trusting in God. And then, when they realize they are not, then we can show them how to trust in God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You do not know. You come to us and learn how to trust, how to know. And if you speak lies that you do not know what is God that is a different thing. Then you should be punished." People should be given chance of believing, trusting in God. They have declared. So it is their duty. The state duty is to see how people are trusting. That is state's duty. Constitution says that nobody can steal. Is it not state's duty that people are not becoming thieves and stealing? Is it not the duty of the state? Similarly, if you, if you have accepted this that "In God we trust," you must see

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically. So we... I may be Indian, Hindu, I may accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Maybe superstition, you may say. But why these European, Americans, Africans, they are accepting? And within very short time. Even Christian priests, they are astonished that "These boys, our boys, they did not care for God, never came to church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God?" They have not become mad. They are quite sane, educated. But why they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as God? Ask any one of them, they'll give explanation. And how it has become possible? Because they have accepted the method. So our guru's business is to teach him the method. Then he will understand everything. So far vegetable-eating is concerned, it is actually very scientific to eat vegetables. I think some German doctor proved it, that our teeth are meant for eating vegetables. So as devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we are not after accepting a vegetarian and rejecting a nonvegetarian. That is not our criterion.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Govardhana: And then he went away for one week and associated with some Christians, and they convinced him that he had committed a great sin, that he should come to the temple and destroy the Deity. So after dancing and chanting in ecstasy, taking prasādam and reading Bhagavad-gītā, he returned to the temple one week later and tried to destroy the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Govardhana: Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he attempted it?

Govardhana: Yes, but we prevented him.

Prabhupāda: So we must be careful. There may be so many fanatics.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...for giving them that common ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty. You do it as theologicians. Bring them on the platform. This so-called church is going on. They're doing all sorts of sinful activities, and it is going on church and religion. Therefore the importance of Christian religion is diminishing. How they can bluff all the time? (japa)

Hṛdayānanda: When you came to America, for one year no one would help you.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Hṛdayānanda: When you came to America, you told us in Pittsburgh, that for one year no one would help you, you had no place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Hṛdayānanda: ...child. (Prabhupāda chuckles) The perfect example. (break) Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Real help for real friend is my Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). He's not only my friend, He's friend of, even of the ant. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: All these things are sinful. To drink is sinful. Even among the Muhammadans. To smoke, sinful. They have got austerities. Their animal-killing is once in a year. (Hindi) Only animals should be sacrificed in worship. There are so many things. Every religion there is good thing, but then nobody follows. Simply defined, "I'm Christian," "I'm Muhammadan," "I am Hindu..." That's all. He's neither of them. He's simply animal. He's simply animal. Just like these rascal Christian. The first proposition is "Thou shalt not kill," and see they're simply killing, and they're claiming "Christians." Just see. All rascals, and they're claiming, "We're follower of Christian." (break) ...propaganda is to teach all these rascals. Therefore we say general rascals. It may be very strong... That professor was referring, "Yes, everyone is rascal." You know that professor?

Karandhara: Yes. He thought "rascals" was a bit harsh.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says rascal; therefore...

Yaśomatīnandana: But he... The professor, when he left he said that "Prabhupāda is very, very gentle," he said. He's the most gentle man he's ever seen.

Devotee: Gentle like a rose, and strong like a thunderstorm. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...India. Just start this movement seriously.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The Deity worship program is meant for us to keep us safe. If we neglect Deity worship, we shall also fall. But that is not the all duty finished. Arcāyām eva haraye pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate. Arcā means Deity. If anyone is worshiping the Deity very nicely, but na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he does not know anything more, who is devotee, who is nondevotee, what is the duty to the world, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ, he is material devotee. He is material devotee. So we have to take the responsibility to understand who is actually a pure devotee and what is our duty to the people in general, and then you make advancement. Then you become madhyama-adhikārī. Madhyama-adhikārī, advanced devotee. Just like these people, either in India or here, they remain simply churchianity, going to the church without any understanding. Therefore it is failing. It is now... Churches are being closed. Similarly, if you do not keep yourself fit to preach, then your temples will be all closed in due course of time. Without preaching, you'll not feel enthused to continue the temple worship. And without temple worship, you cannot keep yourself pure and clean. The two things must go on, parallel. Then there is success. In modern time, either Hindus, Muslim or Christian, because in these places there is no teaching of philosophy, therefore they are closing, either mosque or temple or church. They will close.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Umāpati: Well, they can't do it as...

Karandhara: Not the churches.

Prabhupāda: No, not the churches. Our gṛhasthas will take part. The sannyāsīs will give advice. Directly the gṛhasthas will fight. Gṛhastha, not gṛhastha. There should be an administrative class. That is... Now it is prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. There should be four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Now, it is spoken by God. Therefore it should be rejected? Does it mean? God is for everything. What is this nonsense? And Kṛṣṇa acted as kṣatriya. Therefore He should not be God? Is that very good argument? God is all-inclusive. And religion means God's word, carrying out God's word. That is religion. So how you can make separate?

Karandhara: Well, you can't, but they do.

Prabhupāda: They do everything, but they are demons. They do mental concoction.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: As soon as we define what demoniac civilization is, then no one will support us because they'll see that they themselves are demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are demons they cannot understand. Just like one Christian priest went to some quarters, mine, gold mine. So he was describing that "If you do not worship Lord Jesus Christ, you will go to hell." So they asked, "What is hell?" So when he began to describe—"It is always wet. It is dark. There is no sufficient air, so on, so on"—they could not understand what is hell because they are already in the hell, in the mine. They could not make any distinction that darkness is a very horrible thing. Similarly, these demons they cannot understand what is demonism. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). What is that āsura-bhāva? Not to accept God. This is āsura-bhāva. This is demonism. This is the basic principle of... Everyone is trying to deny God. Therefore they are demons. Who was telling that the medical man is considered to be first-class authority?

Devotee: That was Prajāpati.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Candanācārya: Yesterday I made the acquaintance of a theologist, a professor from the University of Montreal. He said that the Roman Catholic presentation of Christianity is that God came to share the suffering of man.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. Why God should share the sufferings of man?

Candanācārya: I asked him this, and he said, "So that man would accept more as reality, suffering."

Prabhupāda: Very good theologician. A rascal number one. You are trying for becoming happy, and his theory is that man will accept suffering. You see? The very proposition is rascaldom. Everyone is trying for to become happy. That is progress. Ātyantika. In Sanskrit it is called ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. There is suffering, and our struggle for existence means to, I mean to say, mitigate the suffering, to minimize or to make it nil. That is our struggle. We are not submitting to suffering. Then what is the civilization? What is human civilization: We don't want suffering. That is our position. Why this rascal says that "We shall suffer"? Just see. The theologician is a rascal. Therefore we say everyone rascal.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And if the light is little more brilliant, that means finished. If the same light becomes little more brilliant, that means finished, fall down immediately. It is a big aeroplane? (break)

Prajāpati: Several years ago you gave a series of lectures in New York on atonement, that are very famous, and devotees, they relish them very much. Prāyaścitta. And this is also in Christian theology to a large extent, plus another concept called feeling very sorry for one's sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Repentant. Repentant?

Prajāpati: No so much repentance. It is called...

Karandhara: The classic idea is that one goes away and just lives in a state of remorse, solitude and remorse, thinking how sinful and wretched he is, and performing severe austerities.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Karandhara: Going away, living in a monastery, performing severe austerities, and always contemplating how sinful and wretched we are and how we must suffer.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is suffering. But one who knows that he is suffering, he is intelligent. (Aside): Good morning. Everyone is suffering. If you are not suffering, why you have covered? Why you have covered? Because you are suffering, is it not? Why you are not naked body? Because we are suffering, therefore we have covered. It is a fact. And if somebody says, "No, we are not suffering," then he's a madman. So everyone is suffering. One who knows it, he is intelligent man. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So their God, Jesus Christ God, he could not even protect himself also. The reply should be, Christian, if Jesus Christ is God, then why he could not protect himself?

Karandhara: Well, the Jews say Jesus Christ wasn't God.

Prabhupāda: Well, but somebody said.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like the concept that if God is all-merciful, why He is so impartial, somebody making happy, somebody making suffering?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is mercifulness. Just like when doctor says, "You don't take anything today. You fast," that is mercy. That is mercy. It is good for him. By starving, he will be cured. That is mercy. And according to Manu-saṁhitā, when a man is hanged, that is mercy. If he is hanged... He has committed murder. He should be hanged so all his sinful reaction finished. Otherwise next birth, he has to suffer. He has to be killed by somebody else.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: An article appeared about the Vedānta Society here, and they mentioned us to say that we are not them. They said that "Those Hare Kṛṣṇas, they are fundamentalists." Just like there are fundamentalist Christians, we are fundamentalist followers of Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice actually because it is fundamental to believe everything that Kṛṣṇa says.

Prabhupāda: And what is the Vedānta?

Hṛdayānanda: Speculation. They are speculators. They mostly have very elderly members, and they sit around in the evening and discuss.

Prabhupāda: A few. Not even a dozen.

Karandhara: In their āśrama they say they have eight or ten people living there.

Prabhupāda: No young men.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why don't you eat stool? This question was raised by Mālatī. One man said like that. She said, "Why don't you eat stool? Why you discriminate?" (break) Ramakrishna Mission has done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture. (break) ...said, "Why you are afraid of God?" He said like that. "Why you are afraid of God?" One Christian padre, priest, he said, "You are coming from India? How you are speaking like this?" He was astonished. But this rascal spoke like that. "Why do you believe that you are sinners? There is no sin." (break)

Prajāpati: The greatest sin is to think of ourselves as sinners. (break) Yogananda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Because he was a rascal number one sinner.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is just like Śrīla Prabhupāda's example that the rabbits closing their eyes thinking that the danger is over.

Prabhupāda: Yes.