Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are trying to bring people in true platform of knowledge, not to increase death like these rascals and fools. That is our proposal. They are trying to obstruct us because if everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious then they can't cheat anyone. Now Acyutānanda Swami, he went to some place, there was a big sannyāsī, very well-known sannyāsī. So he went to sell some books in their āśrama first of all. So one of his student, one of his disciple, he canvassed Acyutānanda, "Why don't you ask some question to Swamiji?" He clearly said, "I have nothing to question from your Swamiji. I know better than him." (laughter) So actually bring any so-called yogis, swamis or incarnation, our student will challenge him. He does not know anything. We have got such a nice book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. By the arguments and proposition in the Bhagavad-gītā we can capture all these rascals and nonsense.
Cheating (Conversations, 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. You do not know what is that chemical, and still you say that some chemical is missing. This is going on, bluffing, cheating. This should be stopped. You do not know what is that chemical missing; still, you say, "Some chemical missing. Why do you say like that?"
Prabhupāda: How it is scientific? Life is already there. Not that the life production is depending on your future scientific research. The life is already going there, hundreds and thousands and millions. You say that you do not know. Why you are claiming that "In future we shall know"? There is no need of your knowing, it is already going on. You do not know. That is your position. And still, you are declaring yourself as scientist. You are misleading. You can make a fool's paradise, that is another thing. But you do not know at the present moment, but the things are going on. Life is being produced without your knowledge. So you admit that you have no knowledge. And without having knowledge, you are declaring yourself as scientist—how much cheating it is. It is not that it is depending on your future knowledge. It is already going on. Life is being produced. So if you think that in future, by chemical combination you will produce life, so that chemical composition is already there, going on. So you have to find out who is that scientist, not that chemical composition. Who is that scientist who is producing so many lives and chemicals? That is real intelligence.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That he cannot, and that is his foolishness. Therefore we say that you are cheating. Things are already there, going on. What is your credit?
Rūpānuga: The scientists are trying to be the hero. Kṛṣṇa is the hero. He has done everything first, and the scientist wants to be the hero.
Prabhupāda: So you have to present like this, that "What is the credit? Suppose by chemical composition you can manufacture one ant. That is not possible. Be assured you will never be able. That we are assured. But even if you are able, then what is your credit? The credit is the man has learned how to bark like a dog. That's all, this much credit."
Prabhupāda: But that creating problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said—he admitted, both the psychiatrists—that "You are not treating the real person who is diseased." I gave him the example, that "You have got good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that 'The driver is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no disaster.' But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It is not chance. Due to the bad driver." So our propaganda is to give the bad driver nice knowledge so that he can drive the car to Vaikuṇṭha. That is our position. And these rascals, the materialists, they are simply painting the body of the car. And the driver? "Let him starve."
Rūpānuga: They are like the cheating mechanics.
Prabhupāda: That's all. All these medical men, psychiatrists, they are simply painting the body of the car. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their defect. Therefore asses, go-kharaḥ. That is defined. Anyone who takes the body as the self, he is a go-kharaḥ, animal. And that is our protest, that "You are animal; you are passing as very learned scholar, scientist." That we want to protest. We want to expose them, that they are cheating people. They have no perfect knowledge; still, they are passing as scientist and big men and... That is our protest.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are used to cheating and so they couldn't believe Kṛṣṇa either...
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.
Dr. Wolf: They are used to cheating and that's why they don't trust anything and anybody.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Sceptic.
Dr. Wolf: Because they are cheaters themselves.
Prabhupāda: Sceptic is not a scientist or a man of knowledge. He's unbeliever, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the people are being misguided. That we want to stop. They have got this human form of body, that is an opportunity to understand himself and God and act accordingly. Now they are being misled. It is a social disservice. Cheating. In the name of scientist, they are exploiting this innocent person, taking their money and spoiling it without any good result.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Devotee (1): We've been trying more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to make our techniques of distribution more honest and straightforward, not to cheat so much as some of these methods in the past.
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that Kṛṣṇa's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulation on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does... Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no question of vidhi-niṣedhā. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating.
Devotee (1): For one period of two or three days we were going to the airport and simply... This was during the whole controversy about the cheating and the honesty and..., that controversy. So we just went and we just started preaching. And we actually didn't find that much of a diminution in the sales of the literatures. In fact one time a couple of us went out in dhotīs even to the airport, without wigs or anything, for a weekend. And we still did nicely. It was a little more difficult. They weren't so... Some of them weren't as warm. But we find that the businessmen, they can be convinced by just preaching.
Prabhupāda: Read it.
Śrutakīrti: "Dear Gurudāsa, Thank you for your letter of January 2nd and for your continued prayers for me in my work. As you perhaps do not know, I am now ambassador to Israel. I have been in the United States for a couple of weeks but have not been able to arrange for any free time in which I could meet with you and have not been on the West Coast or at any point except Washington and New York. I hope it may be possible at some future time for us to get together, since, as you know, I have great respect for you and your associates who serve the Lord according to your faith and perform many good deeds in these hectic days. Warm personal regards. Sincerely, Kenneth Keating."
Prabhupāda: So any sane man will appreciate our activities. We are doing simply to turn people's attention towards God, that's all. That will make him happy.
Prabhupāda: That means a set of rascals, going on in the name of religion. So how long they can cheat others? So you can cheat all for some time, and you can cheat some for all time, but not all for all time. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, we know... It is useless. It is useless. Because what you will find in the newspaper? The material activities within this item-eating, sleeping, sex and defense. All the politicians will speak, "Now we are arranging eating process like this, we are making this plan, we are..., economic." Uhh? (aside:) Thank you. Very good. You have written? Aiye. The repetition of the same news. It has no good news. "There was a burglary, there was a theft, and this man cheated, and this man was rogue." What is the use of this news? Let everyone know that the whole world is full of such rubbish things. The politicians, they are talking in their own way, that's all. (indistinct) Even Gandhi, such an exalted man, he says that "I have no belief. I do not believe that there was any person as Kṛṣṇa ever living." Just see.
Prabhupāda: They are wasting time simply and cheating others. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested.
Prabhupāda: That is finished, I think. Their propaganda is already finished. Nobody cares for them. How they are...? You can cheat all people for some time, and some people for all time, (laughter) but not all people for all time. That is not possible. This is their policy. Some fruits are there?
Devotee: Yes, Prabhupāda. Some juice also.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Shall we make some fresh juice?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: These complaints are not at all good. They have become very serious. Complaint must be stopped. Why they are...? Now print cheap edition here and give them books. Sell also.
Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse of being cheating.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse us of cheating them.
Prabhupāda: It is not good at all. Why there is complaint?
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to leave anything, provided you understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not after leaving or accepting. We are not after this. We are after understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What... What shall I leave? Suppose if I leave city—I come here—still it is God's property. So what, what I leave? What I have got that I have to leave? Everything God's property. If you have something, then you can leave. But if you have nothing, what you will leave? It is another bogus. This is Māyāvādī theory. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Why jagan mithyā? If Brahman is satya, jagan is also satya. (break) ...means they are trying to possess, and the jñānīs are trying to leave—both of them rascals. Where is the question of possessing? Stealing. You... I want to possess, but that thing does not belong to me. Therefore it is stealing. And the jñānīs are trying to give up living. That is also not truth. But you haven't got anything, so what you are going to leave? So both are in ignorance, the karmīs and jñānīs, the yogis. Simply Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are in knowledge. Before your birth the land was there, the world was there. Everything is there. Now you came. Then how do you possess? Before your birth, things were there. How do you possess unless you steal and cheat? Hm? What is the answer?
Pañcadraviḍa: I have inherited it.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore God's representative, king, is wanted. He'll divide. "All right, you take this." That is king. King means God's representative. Naradeva. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, the king is so respected, guru is so respected, father is so respected—because they give guidance. "You live, Kṛṣṇa conscious, like this." That is their duty. The king is simply planning how to collect taxes, this tax, land tax, sale tax, income tax, this tax, this... So his only business is to plunder: "Let him work, and I shall take it away." And everyone is doing. That is struggle for existence. I want to cheat you. You want to cheat me. That's all. And therefore they are throbbing. There is no solution.
Prabhupāda: No, if you keep God or Christ within your heart, then your heart will be purified. That means you are cheating.
Trivikrama: Yeah.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yeah, that's what it boils down to.
Prabhupāda: You are all cheaters, not Christians, but cheaters. You do not keep in the heart Christ's name or God's name, but you keep your own ideas. Therefore you think it is impossible. Otherwise, your heart would have been cleansed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise—everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇam (SB 1.1.2). Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."
Prabhupāda: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.
Pañcadraviḍa: Who was cheating?
Prabhupāda: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."
Trivikrama: "So let us go on sinning."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: Kill him again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: "Yes, homosex is all right." Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You'll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kālī that "We are eating Mother Kali's prasāda." That's it. This is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Money is nothing but paper, but with the paper I can buy food, so then why is it that we say that money is nothing but paper?
Prabhupāda: You belong to the cheaters' association. You are cheated, and you cheat others. So the whole world is the association of cheaters and cheated. Because you are cheated, you want to cheat others.
Devotee: Sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say well, if there is no God, then it doesn't matter what I do. But there is God, and He knows what I am going to do at every moment, then it doesn't matter what I do either. He knows what I am going to do, so what does it matter? I can do anything.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but why do you suffer? Why do you suffer? You do anything, that's all right, but why do you suffer?
Devotee: Well, it's all God's plan. I suffer according to God's plan, I enjoy according to God's plan.
Prabhupāda: Then there is God?
Devotee: Yes, there may be God, but what does it matter what I do? He is controlling everything. What do I have to say?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot teach your own people, and you are going to teach others. "Physician heal thyself." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greets someone.) You have failed to teach your own children, they are disappointed, and you are going to teach others. This is another cheating. It is not the question of... That is another fault—"our," "your." There is no question of "our," "your." Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "You have to change your body," Kṛṣṇa never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Ramana Maharshi, yes, I am speaking of Ramana Maharshi. He never preached about Kṛṣṇa's superexcellent position, never preached. This is going on. Everyone is taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and he's preaching in his own way, foolish way. "Own way" means foolish way. This is going on. You cannot... Suppose you have got your philosophy, but you cannot take my book and preach your philosophy. If you have got philosophy, you write your philosophy. Why do you take advantage of my book and misinterpret? This is cheating. Because my book is very popular, you take advantage of my book and preach your own nonsense philosophy. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: ...take the credit. And what is your credit? It is already there for millions of years. Why you are anxious to produce this? Without your help it is being produced. So why you spending our hard-earned money and cheating us? You are cheater. You should be punished. These things are already going on. For you there is no scarcity of life. Then why you are spending our tax to show your talent? What is your talent? You are simply cheating us—"We shall do it..." You do or do not, the things are already there. Why you are taking our money to make research? You are cheating us. You should be punished. You will be punished. Even the state does not punish, you'll be punished by the Supreme Lord because you are cheating. So you can cheat us, but you cannot cheat God. Regular punishment will be there. Millions of years it has been going on, and I want to tell (?) you, just tell (?) you (indistinct). The same example-millions of dogs are barking, and this man has learned how to bark. He is selling tickets. You see? You are driving away barking dog, and because this rascal has learned how to bark, you have to pay for it.
Prabhupāda: Attack these rascals strongly in big, big meetings, and slap them, "Why you are cheating and spending our hard-earned money, taxes?" Better follow us. We are giving all credit to the person who has already..., going on with the big man. Very systematically it is going on. For ourself, we are human being. When there are long hairs, we cut. That person's (indistinct) is so nice... nobody's going to cut the (indistinct) ...of the street. But annually, they are already being changed. The whole (indistinct), thrown away. Who's doing that? You must get credit. It is very nice here in the springtime.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheating business.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. Even something which is just... How Śyāmasundara has become victim. This rascal has given him some stone, and it is very valuable and he's jumping. (indistinct) ...has taken ten lakhs of (indistinct). Pukka propaganda. (indistinct) ...he has taken victim. That's all. He's not in his sense, even now, that if he has given me real gem, why I am unable to sell it for the last three, four years? Such a foolish.
millionaire so then he had to also become a millionaire. So he got Mrs. Toyota.
Prabhupāda: He got a cheat wife. Eh? Mother said she cheated that "I am twenty-six years."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many things she cheated.
Prabhupāda: Simply cheated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he wanted to be cheated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Daughter (indistinct) and grand-daughter, all cheaters. Remember in the United Nation, (indistinct).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She cannot speak Japanese.
Prabhupāda: Everything cheated.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, she was think that by cheating this man I am becoming successful. Then she, without any restriction, she began to cheat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: And because he was Mahārāja so he became, she became Mahārānī.
Prabhupāda: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gītā or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahātmā, a religious man. That was his cheating.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, that people want to be cheated, so I shall be perfect cheater. (laughter) That is another thing. And take my doctorate title, being a perfect cheater.
Paramahaṁsa: The problem is that everyone is cheating. Everyone is presenting some knowledge of this or that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have accepted Kṛṣṇa, who will not cheat. You are cheater, therefore you are believing cheaters. We do not cheat, and we accept a person who does not cheat. That is the difference between you and me.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are speaking what Kṛṣṇa said. He is not cheater. He is God. I am talking to you, but not my own knowledge. I am presenting to you what Kṛṣṇa said. That's all. Therefore I am not cheater. I might have been a cheater, but since I am talking only the words of Kṛṣṇa, since then I am not cheater. Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26), "I know past, present and future." Therefore He is not cheater. But so far we are concerned, we do not know what was the past and what is future. And we do not know perfectly the present also. And if we speak something, then we are cheater. That is cheating. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that don't hear the cheaters and don't try to cheat others. Be honest, and hear from the authority. This is Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, that don't hear the cheaters and don't try to cheat others. Be honest and hear from the authorities. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
They will try to cheat Kṛṣṇa by interpretation, "This means this. This means that." That they will do, these rascals, big, big rascals. Kṛṣṇa says something, and they will misinterpret. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "No, no, it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Just see how misleading these rascals. Why you should interpret upon Kṛṣṇa's word? If you have got your own philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā? This is their cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gītā for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they'll never agree to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They'll never agree. The other day I was there in Kurukṣetra. They have got their own plan-mānava-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom. You just surrender unto Me." That they will not do. Except this, everything which is going on in the name of religion, that is cheating. Everyone is misinterpret... Just like Christians, they have misinterpreted: "Kill means murder. It is meant for man."
Amogha: That's the cheating propensity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?
Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: How they are becoming foolish, that they are reading Bhagavad-gītā and they are accepting original tradition of the Māyāvāda? In the original tradition of Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān: "I said. I am person." How these rascals are accepting imperson? Why do they read Bhagavad-gītā? If they have got different theory, let them differently... They are cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is popular. Therefore they are taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and pushing on impersonalism. But here the tradition begins, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ. Where is imperson? So if they want to be cheated willingly, who can save them? They are reading Bhagavad-gītā and devīating from the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning?
Amogha: They don't know. They simply...
Prabhupāda: That means they are so rascal, that... You are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You must take the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Why you are taking other words? What business you have got?
Amogha: They think by majority, most people think like this...
Prabhupāda: Majority or minority, it doesn't matter. But why you should take Bhagavad-gītā to establish your rascal theories? That means you are cheating.
Prabhupāda: The case is... Who is the complainer?
Amogha: Well, originally... The story is something that the father started the whole movement, and then he died.
Prabhupāda: He was a great cheat.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, chief cheat.
Prabhupāda: That is both for them. Let them lift only one mound weight. Then they will come. But they cannot do, neither of them. That is impossible. They have not killed any demons. They are taking advantage of the foolishness of some people. That's all.
Amogha: The only quality they have exhibited is expertness in cheating. That is their qualification. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: (in car) Because so many of them are saying that "I am God," they become envious of one another, and then they fight and expose each other.
Prabhupāda: Competition. God's competition.
Paramahaṁsa: Even the coolies at the train station.
Prabhupāda: And by simply one daṇḍa, one is sannyāsī. This is all over the world. Mussulman, having a long beard, he is Mussulman. Mussuleḥ iman.(?) Musseleḥ means complete, and iman means honest. That is the meaning of Mussulman. Completely honest, completely devoted. Mussuleḥ iman. (long pause) We are not saying just "No sex." We don't say that. We simply say, "No illicit sex," and they do not like it. We don't say "No sex," but simply by saying, "No illicit sex," they don't like. Why? There is a Bengali song, "cakṣe yadi lage bhala kena dadimali" (?) "If I want to see something beautiful, why shall I not see?" That is pravṛtti. "I want to do it. I like to do it. Why should you say, 'No'?" This is the position. "I like to do it. I must do it." This is called pravṛtti (long pause) "I like to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in this way. Why should you say no?" This is going on. (break) The school students, college students, "I like to copy. Why shall I repress(?) ?" This is education. Here also they copy?
Amogha: You mean cheating?
Prabhupāda: No, no, copying in examination?
Amogha: Oh, yes. Well, what they do is someone sneaks the exam answers out before, and they sell the answers to the questions before the test.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Here it is more advanced.
Amogha: Everyone is cheating, but when they find out that the leaders are cheating, everyone becomes upset.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayadharma: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you have said that it's impossible to become rich unless one is a cheater. And yet we have our business, our Spiritual Sky business. So how is it possible to carry on business and not become a cheater?
Prabhupāda: You can cheat. (laughter) You can cheat. For Kṛṣṇa's sake we can cheat also. But don't be caught. Then it will be scandalous.
Gaṇeśa: Thank you. Kṛṣṇa is the biggest cheat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is big in everything, but you should not imitate, because you are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He is very powerful. Before His power, everything becomes vāṇīshed. He remains powerful. But you cannot do that. "Kṛṣṇa is biggest cheater; therefore I shall become a cheater." That is not good policy. Then you will be finished. Just like the example is given that Lord Śiva drank the ocean of poison, and if you drink a drop, you will die. You cannot imitate the most powerful. That is not possible.
Paramahaṁsa: He says that once you told Madhudviṣa Swami that you are the best cheater because you are taking away all our māyā and making us devotees.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That kind of cheating is very good. (pause) Christ also spoke about nivṛtti-mārga. "Thou shall not kill." Because they were practiced to kill, and still they are practiced to killing. The first nivṛtti, "Thou shall not kill." The same thing, "Thou shall not covet."
Devotee (1): But the devotees, they're trying to be in the mode of goodness. In the Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: Well, the trying... Then why do you take initiation and promise? You are trying. First of all, you be fixed up. Why do you cheat Kṛṣṇa, the spiritual master, the fire? If you are not fixed up, you should not take initiation. Go on.
Prabhupāda: No, you can fall down unconsciously. But if you fall consciously, that is cheating. I do not want. I am trying to keep myself steady, but still, if I fall, that is excused. But if you purposely... Just like the Christian atonement. They go to the church and admit, "Yes, I have done these sinful activities, so I pay you something. Excuse it." That is not sincerity. And again, next week, he does the same thing. That is not sincerity.
Paramahaṁsa: What would an example of unconscious falldown be?
Prabhupāda: Unconscious falldown, that... Suppose I am prone to... I was very much fond of smoking, but I have given up. So in a society there is smoking, so I become induced. He offers me cigarette, and unconsciously I smoke. Then I must repent, "Oh, what I have done?" That is excused. But if I secretly smoke and outwardly I show I am a devotee, then what is this? This is cheating.
Prabhupāda: That is... Unwillingly, when it is done, that is excused. And willingly, when it is done, it is cheating. That in your America there was a Moral Rearmament Movement. So it flourished for some days. Their process was admit, admission of sinful activities, that Christian method. "So I will admit. That's all. Again I do. 'Yes, I have done this.' Then my all reaction is gone. Then again I do it." That is described in the Bhāgavata, kuñjara-śaucavat, the elephant, elephant's cleanliness. Elephants cleanse very nicely in the water, and as soon as come on the land, they will take dust and throw, immediately. So what is the use of cleansing? Kuñjara-śaucavat. You cleanse; again you become unclean. Then what is the use of cleaning?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Why they will think? It is a fact. There is English proverb, "There is many dangers between the cups and the lips." You are going to drink tea. The distance is: here is cup and here is lip. There may be many dangers. So suppose in drinking tea there is some choking within the throat, and coughing, you may die immediately. You are so much under the control of nature. Little mistake will cause your death, little mistake. And conditioned life means we commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat, and our knowledge is imperfect. This is conditioned life.
Amogha: So the big demons are cheating the small demons, but they're all demons.
Prabhupāda: The big animal eats the small animal. But the big animal, because he's big, does it mean that he's not animal? He's also animal. The tiger eats a dog. Does that mean the tiger is not animal? The dog is animal, the tiger is also. Animal, he is god who knows how to live without these animals—that is human life. So, why shall I eat animals? I shall eat fruits, I shall eat vegetables, I shall eat nice food grains, I shall drink milk. That is human. Why shall I eat animals' blood and flesh? "No, it is very tasteful." (laughter) So what is the difference between you and dog?
Amogha: They don't know how to cook, the dogs.
Prabhupāda: Well, nature has made them like that. The human beings, they can utilize the land, they can produce so many nice foodstuffs. That is human society. What is this society? They are living in big, big skyscraper building, and for their food the slaughterhouse killing, and they are eating. Is that human civilization? All third class, fourth class men.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't teach them that I am God. I never taught. I always teach them I am servant of God, you are also servant. And they accept it. Actually that is our position. This is bluff. When somebody says "I am God," that is bluff, cheating. We protest very vehemently against the declaration that "I am God." No. Nobody can become God. God is one.
Prabhupāda: Validity... Any religion which is seeking after God, that is valid. If any religion does not obey God, does not know God, that is cheating. That is not religion.
Prabhupāda: So without understanding, you were initiated? Do you think? Why you were initiated if you did not understand the seriousness? Why do you take initiation? That means cheating. You do not understand; still, you show that "I am now understanding."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply propaganda. They are not going. Now the Russian scientist and American scientist are combined. Because both of them thieves, so one thief is asking, "Don't expose me. I will not expose you, so that our business will go on." This is the way. "Let us combine together and cheat these rascals, and otherwise, if you expose me, then I will expose you. Then our business will stop."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we want to do: one God, one state, one scripture, and one activity. That is the ultimate end of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like we are from different countries. We don't think as nationalism, that "I am American," "I am Indian." No. We all think that "We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa." And they are working in that spirit. It is possible. If this idea is accepted in that United Nation, it can be done. But they will not accept. They are going go be united, but everyone is thinking, "First of all my interest." All cheating. They are outwardly, "Now we have come to the United Nation," but no one is going to be united. Everyone is thinking, "It is my first interest first. I must give veto if he's opposing." This is going on. Therefore for the last twenty years or more than that, they are trying to be united, but it is becoming disunited. The flags are increasing. In New York they have got their headquarters. When I pass through, I see that another flag has increased.
Prabhupāda: No, our ideas are standard. We are not manufacturing any idea. Just like whatever we speak, immediately we give evidence from the śāstra. That is our standard. We accept standard idea, and the standard idea means the ideas given by God. That is standard. There is no mistake. There is no cheating, There is no illusion. Any idea we form, that is prone to these four defects. One defect is that we are prone to commit mistake. We are prone to be illusioned. And our senses are imperfect. So being subjected to mistaken idea, illusioned idea, our senses being imperfect, if we want to give some law, that is cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But the thing is that they are very intelligent. There is no doubt about it. Materially, they are always advanced. Materially, when they are manufacturing machine of the airship, in India we are manufacturing sewing machine or cycle. I have seen in the World Fair the Indians were very proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine, whereas the Americans and Europeans, they were showing the how subtle machine of this jet plane are there. So materially, they are advanced. There is no doubt about it. Hundred years. But spiritually they are not. Therefore, I am an Indian, poor Indian—they are coming to me. Because they understand that spiritually... Not only me, any swami who go, they crowd to him, "If there is something spiritual?" Unfortunately, the other swamis, they go to exploit them, to cheat them. They do not... Neither they do know what is spiritual life; neither they could give them. For example, for the last two..., hundred years or more than that the swamis are going; not a single person was a Kṛṣṇa devotee in the history in the western countries.
Prabhupāda: ...expedition is exposition of the scientists: useless. But these materialistic persons will be cheated again and again. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The scientists will propose something else and they will accept. They will never say that "You are failure in your moon expedition. Why you are proposing again something nonsense?" They will never ask. They will pay me, "Yes."
Prabhupāda: No, veri means lamb or sheep. Their walk... If you can push one of them in the slaughterhouse, all of them enter. This is called veriya dāsan. You haven't got to endeavor to push others. You just push one only. "Fut, fut, fut, fut, fut, fut, fut," they all enter. (Laughter) In Hindi it is called veriya dāsan. Just cheat one veri, and all others will be followers. (break) Long ago, when we were boys, we saw one comic cinema. That old cinema player was... His name was Max Linder. Max Linder. So this Max Linder was going to a ball dance, and he was waiting in the park, and the ball dance coat, you know? It has got a tail. So he was sitting in a bench, and some naughty boys came and they nailed the tailing part. So when he got up it became torn, like... So his, this hip was visible. So when was dancing in the ball others were seeing his, "What is this?" (laughter) So he went to the mirror, he saw, "Oh?" So he began to dance and show everyone like this. So others said, "What is this?" "This is the latest fashion. This is the latest fashion in ball dancing." "Oh?" Then all cut their tail coat. You see? "The latest fashion."
Siddha-svarūpa: Right, they're promising this person they freezed that "We will thaw you out later," but they cannot even promise themself that they won't die that night in a car accident or die from some disease themselves. So how can they promise that "In a while we will thaw you out"? They're simply cheating the people.
Prabhupāda: Why it is congested today?
Siddha-svarūpa: Well, we came a little late, it's rush hour. All the people that live on that side of the island work on that side of the island. So they have to drive over every morning. And we happened to get the work hour traffic because we left a little late.
Harikeśa: They are turning Hawaii into New York City.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, they're making it very difficult. They're going to develop this entire side of the island more and more, and so that they're taking agriculture land, and they'll be building subdivisions and people from the mainland will be moving, living in condominiums on this island.
Prabhupāda: That means for one convenience, they create another inconvenience.
Prabhupāda: ...injunction, apāṇi-pado javano grahīta, is, "He, the God, has no leg, no hand, but He accepts gift." "Accepts gift," means He has got hand, but why it is said, "No leg, no hand"? That means He has no material hand and leg. He has His hands and legs, but that is spiritual. That is the meaning. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is made of spiritual eternity... This body is not eternal. But God has got His eternal body. There is no question of God's becoming old. Because His body is eternal. It is the material body which is not eternal. That is subjected to old age, disease, birth, death. What is this big house? (break) ...stated that he came to cheat the atheists. They did not believe in God, but God came as Buddha.
Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Because they have cheated people for so many years and drawn high salaries, now they are finding out: "How to cheat these rascals and continue our business?" This is the problem. Because they have nothing to research. Everything, whatever, are finished. And all failure. Simply big, big words, that's all. Word jugglery, that's all. They could not do anything. What exactly they have done, something which is not done by God? They competition with God, so what they have done? What is their contribution?
Bali-mardana: Only negative; nothing positive. (break) ...easier to kill people.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That much they have done, yes. (break) ...diverting the attention of the people from going to the moon planet, they are meeting in the sky. So what will benefit we shall derive by their meeting in the sky?
Bali-mardana: Even President Nixon he was having Bible meetings while he was cheating everyone. (Prabhupāda chuckles.) (break)
Prabhupāda: They think in, believe in God, and "There is no God; believe in God." Create some God and believe, that's all; finished. Therefore there are many, so many, religions.
Bali-mardana: Everyone has a tendency to worship something. If they don't worship Kṛṣṇa, they will worship someone else. Like Mao or Lenin... (break)
Prabhupāda: One fashion is meditation. This fashion is very prominent. What meditation, they do not know.
Dr. Gerson: Most of those who come to see me are the cheated.
Prabhupāda: And you also cheat them. (laughter)
Dr. Gerson: I hope not. I would like to show them...
Prabhupāda: They want to be cheated, and you also cheat them. Very good business.
Dr. Gerson: I would like to show them a path so that they won't be cheated any longer.
Prabhupāda: Provided you know the path.
Dr. Gerson: I'm trying to learn.
Prabhupāda: So first of all learn it. Otherwise you will be cheating. If you do not know the art and if you want to do some benefit to the others, then that is cheating. Suppose a physician, he does not know what is the medical science and if he wants to become a physician, that is cheating. Quack. (laughter)
Dr. Gerson: I hope through the study that I'm doing with the devotees and the book that comes out of it that it will help them not be cheated any longer and show them the right way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they're, they cheater. He wants to cheat and get some money. That's all. Because the whole so-called human society is combination of cheater and cheated. So anyone who is acting without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is a cheater. And anyone who is thinking himself advanced without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is cheated. This is the basic principle. I mean Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness, so when we speak of Kṛṣṇa-God. Without God consciousness, everyone is cheated. And because everyone is cheated, there must be cheater. This is correlative term. If I say, "I am cheated," that means there is a cheater. And if there is a cheater there must be cheated. This is relative term.
Dr. Gerson: NBC did an unfair story on Gurukula. They cheated. And I would like to undo that. I would like to go and show that the school is very good.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very kind of you, but there have been so many attempts to cut down this movement, but they are cheated. They could not do so.
Prabhupāda: That is good. They have finished already science. Now if they do not come to God, then they are finished. They have nothing to say any more. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is Vedānta. Now they have finished all their so-called talent. Now they have to come to brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry about the Supreme. That is their concern now. Now they have cheated public and bluffed them, they are going to this, going to this, but they are all failures. Now they are anxious how to keep their position. That is the problem.
Prabhupāda: That means they have created thieves and rogues. Therefore they are suspicious. Nowadays in the airport, everyone is searched. Then it is now taken for granted that all of them are cheats. So what is the value of this education if all of them are cheats? There is no discrimination, "Now, here is a educated professor, Dr. Ph.D., he cannot be searched." No, he will be also searched-because, "You may be Ph.D., but we know you are a cheat." (laughter) Is not the conclusion? Will he be excused if he says, "Oh, I am Ph.D." No, you must be searched. "You may be Ph.D., but you are a cheat." This is education. So what is the value of this education? And according to Vedic civilization, as soon as one is a brāhmaṇa, he is not within the jurisdiction of administration, immediately. The government has no right to check in his activities.
Prabhupāda: No, because they are asses. Why don't you say like that? (laughter) Because they are big asses and people are following them. That is the misfortune. They are simply bluffing that "We are very great." Just like these scientists, they simply bluffing that "We went to the moon planet. We are doing this, doing that," and taking large salaries, but they are asses. And people are also asses. Therefore they accept, "Oh, he is a big man, cheating us very nicely."
Prabhupāda: Challenge that "I shall kick on the face of this rascal, and if he is God, let him punish me. If he is God, let him punish me. I am prepared. So come on in the public. I kick on his face, and let him do whatever he likes. I am prepared. If it is God, let me (him) kill me by his mantra or by his will. Then I will accept him." This is challenge, that "I shall kick on his face in public, and if he is God, let him punish me." And you are so fool that you are accepting this rascal as God? You belong to American nation, advanced. You have become so rascal? Challenge like that. He has come to cheat you, and why you are so befooled that you are being cheated? He is convicted in the court that he is a, what is called, deceiver. Yes. The court judgment is there. He is a deceiver.
Prabhupāda: University without books. (laughter) Very good university. Anyway, if they are taking our books, that is good. What he will have? He is also another bogus man. But you people want to be cheated by this yoga, meditation. Therefore he has been able to get some facility. Only a selected group has come to me. Otherwise, they do not understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Kuruśreṣṭha: Those people won't listen to any philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they have been cheated by this man.
Prabhupāda: Yes. On cheating, I said.
Brahmānanda: Yeah. Then you, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ, then "It's all this cheating."
Yadubara: But the whole assembly was broken up after your speech.
Brahmānanda: Yeah, then after you finished speaking, you got up and left, then the ācārya, he was supposed to speak, but then everyone else followed Prabhupāda out... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: I gave my verdict, "This is all cheating." (laughs) "Then I cannot wait anymore." (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...Uttamaśloka was telling me was that Swami Bon's talk was very difficult for an ordinary person to understand. He started right out by describing how Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa, and it was very difficult... He didn't do any preliminary...
Prabhupāda: Jugglery.
Prabhupāda: It is very cheating. Any powdered spice is not good.
Harikeśa: Asafoetida also.
Prabhupāda: Everything. As soon as it is powder, they will mix with all rubbish things. And it is very easy to cheat you. You are susceptible for being cheated. So they take advantage and cheat you. So best thing is to import spices from India whole and either get it powdered or during time of cooking you make them paste. That is first class.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be, simply surrender and everything is finished. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... (BG 18.66). Even if you are sinful, Kṛṣṇa will give you release, "All right. You have surrendered. That's all right." That is wanted. If you reserve something and cheat Kṛṣṇa, "Now I am surrendering," Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent. "You have still reservation.
Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law. The professional murderer, he knows the law. But still, he commits because heart is unclean. And our process, to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), it is Sanskrit, "Cleansing the heart." Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, "Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved."
Prabhupāda: Yes. I said that he is a great cheat. What can I say? And it has been proved now. (laughter) I said in my book, Easy Journey to Other..., that this moon excursion is childish, and it has been proved now. Now they don't talk about the moon excursion because they are failure. So ten years ago or more than that, I said that it is only childish.
Russell, but they became skeptics. They said, "Therefore there's no knowledge at all."
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is also speculation. (laughter) "Because I have failed, therefore there is no knowledge." This is also imperfect because how I can conclude like that? I am imperfect. I cannot decide this way or that way. So that is also. Vedic knowledge says that a conditioned soul has got four defects: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. Any conditioned soul. Even Brahma, he is receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavi means Brahma. He is the most perfect person within this universe, Lord Brahma. So he is also receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Any conditioned soul, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, they are defective in four ways: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. They know that "I am imperfect." Just this Darwin. He knew that he is imperfect, and he cheated so many persons—by false theory, which he cannot explain. He simply gives, "Perhaps millions of years' gap...," this, that. That is not knowledge. So the imperfect person is prone to become a cheater. So we should not take knowledge from the cheaters.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prabhupāda is giving you the same knowledge, that's all. There is no question of cheating. I have received this knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, and you take this. That's all. My business is finished.
Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion.
Prabhupāda: That I don't want to discuss because... (laughs) (laughter) They... As you have asked, I may explain that how foolish women are being cheated by the intelligent man. You see.
Prabhupāda: All right, trying. But you women, you cannot see that this so-called equal right means cheating the woman. Now I say more clearly that a woman and man meets. Now they become lover. Then they have sex, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the man goes away. The simple woman, she has to take charge of the child and beg from government alms, "Please give me money." This is your independence. Do you admit this is independence, that the man makes the woman pregnant and he goes away without any responsibility, and the woman cannot give up the child, she maintains, begging from the government or she tries to kill the child? Do you think it is very good independence? What is your answer?
Woman: To... Whether or not it is good to kill a child? Is that the question?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are killing now, abortion.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they are cheating you in the name of independence. That you do not understand. Therefore 34 ounce. They are cheating you, and you are thinking you are independent.
Sandy Nixon: They forget the responsibility that comes with freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not take the responsibility. They go away. They enjoy and go away. And the woman has to take the responsibility, either kill the child or maintainer, begging. Do you think begging is very good? In India, although they are poverty-stricken, still, they do not remain independent. They remain under the husband, and the husband takes all responsibility. So she has neither to kill the child nor go to beg for maintaining the child. So which is independence? to remain under husband is independence or to become free to be enjoyed by everyone?
Sandy Nixon: That's not where the freedom is anyway.
Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.
Prabhupāda: They must create confusion because he is a foolish man. He is interpreting on the words of God. He is not a devotee. He has got other purposes as a politician or something else. So he wants to push on his views through Bhagavad-gītā. That is a cheating process. If he wants to speak something, he can write separate book. Why he should go through Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating. But he knows, "Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. If I push my philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, it will be very easily accepted." That is going on. That is cheating. Why should you interpret? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mād-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee." And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not necessary to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa person." This is going on, big scholar.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā, last instruction is sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. (BG 18.66) "You give up all kinds of occupation and just surrender unto Me." If one can take it very seriously, understand, then he can enter into the study of Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā. So he advised that "You surrender to Me," and Bhāgavata begins, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1), "I am worshiping the Supreme Truth." And next verse is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." So this is rather revolting. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), "Give up all kinds of religious system, just surrender to Me." And from that point Bhāgavata begins, "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." It is meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Those who are envious, for them is not Bhāgavata. So any materialistic person, he is envious. It is not meant for the materialistic person.
Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating.
Bahulāśva: The cheaters and the cheated.
Prabhupāda: Cheaters and the cheated. That's all. (break) ...meditating, what is that? Who was saying? Upendra? Where is Upendra?
Jayatīrtha: He hasn't come, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So meditation means "I am moving the earth, I am moving the sun..."
Jayatīrtha: From that Kundalini book.
Brahmānanda: Oh, in that prayer he says, "I created God." That Yogi Bhajan. In his book he says that, that that is the meditation.
Prabhupāda: "I created God."
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And you were created by dog. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is... A chance means you are a rascal. Nothing takes place with chance. That is his rascaldom. Nothing takes place. The answer is in the Bhagavad..., bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (Bg 7.10) "The original seed I am." The answer is there. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Challenge these rascals. They are cheating so many people.
Prabhupāda: Because he carries the message of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is friend, and he is carrying the friendly message. Therefore he is friend. If there is a nice friend and if somebody gives information of that nice friend, he is also friend. Therefore nobody can become friend except Kṛṣṇa's representative. The material world is: "I am your enemy, and you are my enemy." This is the whole construction of the material world. So how the enemy can become friend? It is pretension, cheating.
Prabhupāda: They say? It is simply cheating. They found this in Arizona, somebody... (laughter) And laboratory work.
Yadunandana: The reason why the western world is so much involved in science is because the religions that have been presented here in the West have cheated the people economically...
Prabhupāda: No, why cheated? The Christian religion says God created.
Devotee (4): But the followers do not practice this idea. The original idea is very nice.
Prabhupāda: No, they became over-intelligent by so-called education.
Devotee (4): What I meant to say is that the directors of these religions like the Pope and so many things, they themselves have committed so many abominable activities that people have said, "Well, why should we stay with religion? These religious leaders themselves are eating meat, they have prostitution, they are cheating the people, taking their money, living very nicely..."
Prabhupāda: But that is not religion. Why you accept the Pope as religious?
Devotee (4): No, we don't accept...
Prabhupāda: You reject. You reject. Come to us. Why do you accept these rascals as religious? That is your fault. Why should you stick to them? They cannot teach what is real religion, so let us give you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. That is the defect. Either the master is defective or the servant is defective or the system is defective. That is material world. Doṣa-catuḥsthānī, four faults: mistake, illusion, cheating, and imperfectness. (break) ...the struggle for existence—one mistake after one mistake, one illusion after one, one imperfectness after another. Like that, it is going on.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the beginning of Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All cheating type of instruction is kicked out from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Only substance." Vāstavam-vastu vedyam atra. One who is really anxious to know reality, for them, it is Bhāgavatam. And those who want to be misled, not for them. One who is sincere to get the light, for him Bhāgavata is the only remedy. (break) ...the question that "Why Bhāgavata is so important than other books?" The reply is there: mahā-muni kṛte kiṁ va paraiḥ. "What is the use of other books?" It is written by Mahā-muni Vyāsadeva, the Vedānta-ācārya.
Bhagavān: They are getting cheated from all sides. The scientists are cheating them...
Prabhupāda: No, they want to be cheated. What can be done? Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). Just like the advertisement, "No faith, no philosophy, no restriction." You want all these things; therefore he has come to cheat you: "Yes. No regulation. You can do whatever you like." And then he will praised, "Oh, he is good, good swamiji. He has no restriction. And here is a most conservative swamiji. 'Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this.' " They want to be cheated. As soon as you speak the truth they will not accept. They will argue. What is the wrong in illicit sex? Why he's restricting? This is the... They go to guru to teach the guru, not to take lesson from the guru. What is that?
Mādhavānanda: ...thinks that they have some responsibility in the world, and if you say all of a sudden that "You have no responsibility..."
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "Yes, you have responsibility so long you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious," not that a person who is not in the devotional service of the Lord, he can say, "I have no responsibility." He cannot say.
Prabhupāda: People also thought, "Yes." He never said, "Nixon needs money." (laughter) This is cheating. He needs some money; he said, "America needs Nixon." And the rascals were befooled. (break) All these politicians do like that. What is their responsibility?
Brahmānanda: Now Nixon is in debt. He is now in debt.
Prabhupāda: ...speak, why he is purchasing? They will cheat.
Dhanañjaya: He speaks a little Hindi. This is Asita.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Asita. (man talking in Hindi in background)
Prabhupāda: Go on. What is the trouble? See. (break)
Dhanañjaya: They stop everyone so they can extract taxes from them. They want to stop every single person, even the buffalo carts. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (to life member:) There was no trouble. It's okay now.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Thank you.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...women's,(?) they try and harass us, they try and cheat us.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Nirnayika just wanted to use their scale, and they would try and cheat him. They would ask him for money just to let us use their scale to weigh the vegetables we buy. So I intervened one day, and then he got so angry that he abused Kṛṣṇa also. These are such big demons, these people. They live in Vṛndāvana but...
Prabhupāda: So give them prasāda; they will be all right. Yes. Give them prasāda.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you make "Hindu religion," "Muslim religion," "Christian religion," immediately it is not religion, immediately. Because Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Why does He say, sarva-dharmān parityajya? (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Because that is not religion. The so-called religions which are going on, they are not religion. That we do not say at the present moment because you are not so strong. But we have to say that. There is no religion. All cheating. Why Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66)? Why?
Akṣayānanda: Because there is no other religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no religion.
Akṣayānanda: That is actual religion, surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Everything else is cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating others, cheating himself. Just like this animal sacrifice. The man who is sacrificing, he is cheating himself, and he is cheating others also. (break) ...cheating, envious. Just like a man who is killing another man. So he is envious to himself as well as the man whom he is killing. Both. I am killing somebody, he is being killed. I am envious. And I forget that I'll be killed. Then I am envious to me also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let him go to hell. What can be done? (break) So his friend said, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is drinking." "Oh, he will go to hell." "My mother is also drinking." "Oh, she will go." Then brother, sister... "Then where is hell? We are going all there. If we can live together, where is hell? Let us go to hell. Doesn't matter." So your argument is that. "Because everyone is being cheated, then where is fault? I have been cheated. That's all. It is not hell. It is heaven." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Akṣayānanda: It's like saying everything is one.
Prabhupāda: No. That cannot be. You are one cheated and he is one cheater. How they can be one? (laughter)
Trivikrama: The mind is cheating us.
Prabhupāda: Certainly he'll cheat. If you cannot control, it will cheat. Mind is the friend, and mind is the enemy. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, then mind is friend. And if you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, mind is enemy. māyā is also. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then she is Rādhārāṇī. And if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, she is Durga.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they are agent of Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. But because you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, therefore they are cheating you. They are not your servant. Mama māyā: "My servant." Just like the police. Police is punishing you not on their own account. Because you are disobedient, you must be punished. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14).
Brahmānanda: The moment we stop cheating Kṛṣṇa, then we can...
Prabhupāda: Then, immediately, he becomes friend. This is the way, going on. The whole arrangement is like that. So long we shall not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, we have to suffer so many ways, different species of life, different condition, different planets. This is going on. (break) ...indirectly forcing that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise you'll be punished." Why police is so unkind? Because the indirect way is that "You become lawful; otherwise you'll continue to be suffering by us." So intelligent person thinks of it, and he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. And those who are rascals, fools, bewildered, they think, "We shall adjust it by manufacturing every year new type of motorcars." Although there is accident... The increase of motorcar means increasing the death rate of public. Huh? And still they'll do that. It is becoming problem in cities in Europe and America. All roads and streets are always congested. They cannot drive even at ten miles speed. Still, they are increasing. Still, they are increasing motorcar.
Prabhupāda: No. No. If he can manage, that is nice.
Dhanañjaya: Otherwise I am sure such a person will simply try to cheat us. And he is quite prepared to do that service for us.
Prabhupāda: All right. Let him do that. Now bring guest.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...because they are envious. When they advertise all kinds of nonsense they don't mind getting cheated. But something nice, they are envious of it.
Prabhupāda: Accha bole tomare lagdha, suta jagat murare.(?) You give me that chewra and milk and banana, nothing else. (break) ...and so much useless labor for growing tea, that will be stopped. You can grow food. (break) You drink tea, you'll require sugar. Then unnecessarily producing so much sugarcane. And the by-product of sugarcane, molasses, you'll have to utilize. Then produce wine, liquor. One after another.
way that it becomes Māyāvāda.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He's a cheater. People want to be cheated. They come to sādhu for some material benefit. Don't you see that people are so much anxious to touch the feet of a sādhu? What is the reason? Reason is that if he gets some favor of the sādhu, "Then I shall be happy materially." That's all. They have no idea, becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract.
Prabhupāda: Remain at home; think of your wife. Everyone is doing that. Then why do you take sannyāsa and cheat others? Māyāvādam asac-chāstram. Asat, it is very abominable philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That means... You say directly, "There is no God. It is a false conception only." You say directly. That is understandable. But why do you say all these nonsense, that "God is there, but He has no head, He has no tail, He has no hands, He has no...?" What is this? Tell directly that "There is no God." The Buddhists say, "There is no God." That is understandable. Why do you cheat? The Christian also believe like that?
Harikeśa: Nowadays they do.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What do they?
Harikeśa: When we went to Hyderabad we spoke to the Archbishop, and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami asked him, "What is God?" And he said, "Well, nowadays there are so many theories as to what is God."
Prabhupāda: Theories.
Prabhupāda: What are these plants? Pineapple? No. Different. (break) ...intelligent. Just like here is sunshine. Wherefrom the sunshine is coming? We can see the sun globe. So what is the arrangement there? This is inquiry. And there must be some heating arrangement, lighting arrangement. There must be some fire. And who has made this fire? How it came, so big fire that the whole universe is heated and light? This is inquiry. And see the sunshine and say, "It is nature," and finish business, dismiss all other questions—what is this nonsense? "I am great scientist." Eh? What is your reply? "It is nature, that's all." A great scientist. That a child can say also. It is automatic. That is not intelligence. If the scientists simply study the sunshine, they will have to come to the conclusion there is God. But they will not do that. They will bluff others, they will cheat others, and they will be cheated.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why does he say "extinct"? These cheaters, they cheat themselves and bluff others and mislead the people. This is their position. We want at least that people may not be bluffed by these rascals and waste their time. That we want, that much. They may say that "You are not scientist." Yes, I am not scientist, but I can request you that don't be bluffed by this nonsense. That much I can say. I can prove that he is a nonsense. Why you are wasting time after them? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)...their folly, European men. Where the American men will go? (laughter) Just see. (break) ...from India they made Indian center, and they conquered both sides—Far East, Middle East, Africa—with Indian soldiers. They organized Indian soldiers and Sikhs and Gurkhas, and they employed them for extending their empire. British soldier does not mean... Maybe two, one or two British commanders, but real soldiers were Indians.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meditation. They are... Simply it is a farce. That is another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. They do not know what is meditation. Do you know what is meditation? You are asking me the question, but do you know what is meditation?
Faill: Just a stilling of the mind, trying to sit in the center without swimming either way.
Prabhupāda: So what is that center?
Faill: Oh, I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why you are asking me? You do not know. So everyone does not know what is meditation, and they talk very much, "meditation." This is going on. These bluffers, they say "meditation," but what is the subject matter of meditation they do not know. Simply bogus propaganda. You see?
Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.
Prabhupāda: They say? They have? They say so? They have restriction?
Indian man: Well, no cheating, no gambling and no cheating. He's got restrictions of...
Prabhupāda: Do you follow these restrictions?
Indian man: Well, up to a certain extent I do.
Prabhupāda: What is that extent?
Indian man: Well, I don't eat meat, I don't gamble, I don't take any kind of intoxicants, but I drink tea, you know.
Prabhupāda: So that divine life is generally for all the Hindus. That is custom. They may learn here something else, but generally, Hindus, they do not take meat. So, anything else? No. Simply this restriction.
Prabhupāda: Simply cheating and taking huge sum of money. All bluff.
Prabhupāda: That's it. And these rascals are talking very big, big words. That has to be stopped, that “Don’t talk nonsense and bluff people and take high salary, simply cheating. Don’t cheat any more. Admit that you cannot do anything. You simply bluff. That's all.” That is to be done.
Indian man (1): Cheat everybody, I mean, get all the members and live on that. (break)
Indian man (2): Where does it have it's place in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Oṁkāra is… Oṁkāra is sound representation of Kṛṣṇa. One who is unable to chant Kṛṣṇa, for them oṁkāra. Because there are many envious persons—they won’t chant Kṛṣṇa—therefore Kṛṣṇa has given them oṁkāra.
Indian man (2): And the swastika?
Prabhupāda: Praṇavaḥ. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, raso ’ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ, praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise how they will sell? They will say. They will present anything nonsense in flowery language, and people will be cheated. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually our theory, even taken as a theory, that the soul is there and enters the body, and when the soul leaves, the body is finished, it's very palatable, very palatable. Very few people argue with it. It's simply that they've been miseducated. Therefore they are cheated. They accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty, that, wholesale people have been miseducated. That is our protest. And this miseducated is ruling the whole world, all rascals (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...cheated in some business transaction, they become very mad, angry, so much so sometimes they want to kill the opposing party. But when they are cheated in this way they don't mind so much, because their sense gratification, either way, is there. So only people who are serious about understanding the truth will accept these things.
Prabhupāda: We therefore submit our statement as it is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot say that we are cheating, because we are presenting something authorized, which is accepted. That's all. So we are not cheater. You may accept or not accept; that is your business. But we are presenting something standard. That's all.
Prabhupāda: It is not dogmatic. When I say, "Next February will be very nice season," it is not dogmatic. It is by experience. Last February or many other Februarys I have experienced. Therefore I say, "Next February will be like this." That is not cheating, neither dogmatic. That is experience. That example I gave many times, that a child asks from the father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear son, it is microphone. If you speak, it will be recorded." So I take it from my father this is microphone. So I may be child, but when I say, "It is microphone," that is correct because I have taken from the authority. If a child is asked, "What is this? Do you know?" if I say, "Yes, it is microphone," that is correct. And if he, the man, says, "How do you know it is microphone?" "My father said." Then he is correct. I may be disqualified as a child, but because I have taken the words from my qualified father, it is correct. That is our process. I don't claim that I am very big man, but we repeat only what we have heard from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You may accept it, not accept. That is your business. Therefore I named it Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are speaking simply what Kṛṣṇa has said, and we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. This is our business. Now, in the market so many things are being sold, not that everything has got all customers. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be accepted by all. That is the case in everything. But what we are presenting, that is standard. We are not cheating.
Prabhupāda: Neither we are after false followers. If you agree, then you come. If you agree—"No illicit sex, no... Yes..." Why? There is no "Why?" You have to accept it. Then you come to me. That's all. If you like, you come; if you don't like, go away. I don't care for you. This is our policy. There is no "why?" You may say, "dogmatic," but it is not dogmatic but it is standard from Bhagavad-gītā, from Vedic literatures. Striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhāh: (SB 1.17.38) "Wherever there are these four kinds of sinful activities, oh, that is very dangerous place." So we have taken it. (break) Now everyone, when there are so many cars... I saw one advertisement, Ford car, that "Bring all '79 cars and compare. Ours is the best." You cannot condemn him. It is advertisement. "Bring all '79 cars, others, and compare with our car." You can have your consent. That is not cheating. So we say like that, that "Bring all knowledge and compare with Bhagavad-gita's knowledge." Now it is up to you if you accept this or don't accept it. That is not cheating. But these rascals, they are simply placing some bogus theory without any authorized statement: "All of a sudden monkey once gave birth." And where is that authority?
Prabhupāda: Money is not required. You require things. Just like instead of money, you are getting papers. Money means gold. Where is gold? You are cheated. Money means gold. So instead of possessing gold, you are possessing some paper, written there, "hundred dollars." And you are such a fool, you are satisfied. You are being cheated. Bank's check and currency notes, you keep it in your..., "Oh, here is my money." Is that money? Just see.
Devotee (3): They only do that to make it easier for them, because they've got so much money that they can't carry it...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but actually it is not money. You are befooled. You are such a fool that you accept a piece of paper as money. Therefore I say you are rascal. That is my business. If I say "Government, give me gold," and government has passed law, "No, you cannot possess gold," that means cheating. How I shall keep gold, that is my business. First of all you give me gold. It is due to me. But you are giving me paper. That means cheating is begun from you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I will have to do something. That is another thing. But why you are cheating me? Instead of gold, you are giving me paper. Formerly... You have seen in Kṛṣṇa book that one fruit man came, and Kṛṣṇa was taking some grain. It was falling down. So that was the... A fruit man come, and you give him a packet of grain. Then whatever exchange is possible, the fruit man gives you fruit. That's all.
Harikeśa: It's very difficult to cheat in that system. It's very difficult to cheat.
Prabhupāda: Cheat?
Harikeśa: In a system of bartering it's very hard to cheat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no cheating. Everyone is simply simple, honest. And here the government begins cheating. He is engaging you to hard work day and night and paying you a piece of paper, where it is written "one hundred dollars." That's all. This is your society, cheating and cheater. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.
Prabhupāda: Everything mismanaged, cheating.
Harikeśa: So until the top man is Kṛṣṇa conscious, this cheating will basically continue.
Prabhupāda: Who is the top man? Everyone is top man. Instead of one king, now you have got one hundred kings. The minister, the secretaries, the under-secretaries, the deputy minister, and so on, so on, so on. So there was only one unfortunate king. Now you have got three dozen kings, and you have to maintain them like kings. This is going on.
Harikeśa: ...but his occupation is cheating.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him become Kṛṣṇa conscious. He will stop this cheating business.
Harikeśa: But he has to stop.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Rājarṣi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has to stop. It will be stopped as soon as he becomes a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are called mūḍhas, all rascals. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. How you can understand that this man is mischievously meritorious? How you can understand? Duṣkṛtina means mischievously meritorious. This man is meritorious, but he is using his merit for mischievous activities. That is called duṣkṛtina. So how you can understand this man is mischievously meritorious? You can say, "How is that? A man is meritorious and at the same time he is mischievous?" There're so many organization, especially in Western country, big, big rogues' organization simply for cheating, simply for smuggling. They have got merit. Otherwise how they have organized such big, big organization? But what for? All mischievous activities, harassing government, harassing people. The merit is being used. There are many organizations in the Western country. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating. But we are being educated, being cheated. We are working for this body, which I am not. Is that education or it is cheating? If you say, "I am taking my interest," I'll say "I am taking water; I wash daily my shirt and coat." And that, is that knowledge? And what about you? Your food? "I don't care for that. I wash my coat and shirt daily." Is that education? You keep yourself starving and you keep your coat and shirt very cleanse. Is that education? This is going on. Therefore people are restless. He is hungry. What he will do, his cars and this shirt and coat and big building? Why they are committing suicide? Because he is not happy. There is no food for the spirit soul, what he is actually. Is that education? That is not education. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is right when he says, jība ke karaye gādhā: "This material education means making people more and more asses." That's all. He is already ass because he's in this material world, and the so-called material education means keeping him in that condition more and more.
Prabhupāda: Just see how he was cheating you.
Indian man (2): I purchased mine.(?)
Prabhupāda: This is such a great cheater, and he has opened university? Just see.
Harikeśa: I used to ask, "What is the goal of all this?" And they would always say, "You can't ask that now. You won't understand. In the future we'll tell you."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "After we have your money."
Harikeśa: They keep it very mystical so that you keep thinking in the future you'll get something.
Prabhupāda: The same as the scientists, same.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Prabhupāda, by your mercy we've been able to see that the whole world is simply cheaters and cheated.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Prabhupāda: And your big, big cities are full with hippies. You cannot induce them to give up their LSD, and you are making better men. Better men is going to become worse. Just see how cheating.
Harikeśa: Oh, you mean once we make the better men they'll just degrade again.
Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. (laughter) He was telling me. Selling ticket. And if I say, "They are cheater, bluffer," they become angry. Just see. Actually they cheated and bluffed so many men. Now they say it is inhabitable. Why they sold ticket for going there? So many living entities there are, living within the sand, and they say there is no living entity. How they are eating? How they are sleeping? A small...
Cyavana: Millions of them. (break)
Indian man: ...airless, Swāmijī. Therefore we can't have the life there. They have proved that it is airless, waterless and so on.
Prabhupāda: How do you say there is no life? You see in the sand there are so many lives. So there, if it is desert, there are so many lives.
Brahmānanda: 'Cause the cheating tendency is there.
Prabhupāda: That's all. It is cheating. Postdated check means he cheats. What is the guarantee that there will be deposit of money? Will the bank guarantee?
Harikeśa: They've done so many good things in the past, you can understand that...
Prabhupāda: No good things. All bluffs. What good things they have done which has benefited the human society or saved the human society from birth, death, old age and disease? What they have done? Our main problem is this. And when there is no food, what the scientists can do? If there is no rice, no wheat? That will come. The scientists will be taught very nicely. Time is coming when there will be no food. Let them produce. Therefore they are trying chemical food, one, one tablet. This is another cheating. Why tablet? Why not actually produce rice by chemical composition? Why tablet? This is their bluff. The Western people, they take dozen of tablets every day. Still, they are the same condition.
Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their cheating. (break) ...everything had been experimented, and they were defeated; still, "science." This is their foolishness. (break) ...telling me that fifty thousand people died by motor accident?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I was telling you that. In America they used to have...
Prabhupāda: One city is finished.
Prabhupāda: Simply they are cheating. There was one gentleman, English gentleman, Sir William Temple. He used to say, "I wish to die without a doctor. Don't bring doctor."
Cyavana: Without a doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Let me die peacefully. Don't bring doctor." I say also. Don't bring doctor when I am diseased. What is this?
Brahmānanda: (break) There's a chair if you would like to sit out here in the sun.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not so cold. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How one is going by cheating others, by stealing. So everything. You can display, what is called? That planetary system?
Indian man (1): Planetarium?
Prabhupāda: Planetarium. According to planetarium.
Prabhupāda: (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge. Therefore so many mahātmās, sādhus, yogis, they are all useless, all useless because they have no bhakti. Simply artificially cheating people. (break) This is a society of cheaters and cheated. If you want to be cheated, there are many cheaters who will come and cheat you. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Such kind of religious system is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. Kaitava means cheating. To cheat God or to be cheated by God, this kind of religion is rejected. But people are very much fond of that kind of religion by which the God is cheated and he is cheated. He will commit all kinds of sins and he will be excused. That means God is cheated. And if he thinks that "I will go on committing sinful; God will excuse me," that is also cheating. He is cheating himself, as if God is so fool that he will go on committing sin and God will excuse. These are cheating. This is not religion. God is personally speaking, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28), and he is thinking that "I will go on committing sinful activities and God will excuse." Why God will excuse? This is foolishness. He can excuse once, twice, thrice, but as a matter of routine, he will commit sinful activities and God will excuse—this is all nonsense. Parīkṣit Mahārāja has condemned this process.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Things which one does not know, he should not try to cheat others by placing some untruth.
Dr. Patel: It is like five blind men seeing an elephant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should not give the conclusion that "Elephant is like..."
Dr. Patel: Then we don't accept... It is very difficult to know the whole truth by any one of us.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore our process is upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. One has seen the truth. Not these rascals. Tattva-darśinaḥ. Darśinaḥ means who has actually seen. There is no change. The advice is tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevaya (BG 4.34). These are the quotes. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Not that theoretical. Tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to go there. Then you will get knowledge. A blind man goes to another blind man. What is the profit? No profit.
Prabhupāda: You do not know what is religion. Therefore we do not accept sentimental religion. We say it is cheating. Such kind of religion, we say it is cheating.
Harikeśa: You can't eat religion.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: If you spend all your days just chanting, how can you eat? Religion means you go to the church and you just pray.
Prabhupāda: And who says that religionists should not eat? Do we say...? We have ample prasādam to eat. It is already there. You are researching after food, starving dog. We don't research. There is food ready.
Prabhupāda: Curzon Road. (break) ...religion, we say "cheating religion." We don't accept sentimentally.
Harikeśa: Well, the sentiment is the faith. The dictionary definition, sentimentalism is the faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith is good, provided you have faith on the superior. That is good.
Harikeśa: So faith in knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith.
Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be, put because they do not know God, therefore it is cheating. Just see, India's capital and so dirty thing.
Harikeśa: You were saying about Eisenhower and Nehru?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It does not look bigger than the sun. May be bigger. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Kalākendra. So many kalākendras. Kalā means cheating, kalā. In Bengal, when it is called kalā, kalā deki dichi means cheating... (Hindi) I think in other countries also somewhere, they do so, that "I cannot do anything." Eh? In your country do they not like showing this thumb?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Devotee (2): what does that mean?
Prabhupāda: In India it is. Means "You are useless. You could not do anything."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.
Harikeśa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.
Prabhupāda: No, they will not accept that. That they will not accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kalā is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalākendra.
Harikeśa: They have powdered milk.
Prabhupāda: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.
Harikeśa: Everybody cheats as much as possible, on income tax and everything.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even President Nixon had cheated on his income tax return, but they caught him later on.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not cheating. It is... The income tax department is a cheating department, so everyone tries to avoid this cheating department. That's it.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. People hire lawyers, very expensive lawyers, just to find loopholes in their tax statements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The cheating begins from the government. They are giving some paper and asking people, "Here is ten thousand dollars." This is cheating. "I promise to pay." But when the government is failure, where is the promise? Who pays? This is cheating.
Harikeśa: How does one stop cheating in a world of cheats?
Prabhupāda: This material world is meant for cheating. You cheat, and others will cheat you. That's all. This is material world. It is not "how?" If you inquire, "How it is cold?"... The season is cold. There is no question of how. The place is for cheating and cheaters. So there is no question, "How it is cheating?"
Harikeśa: So you can't stop the cold.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But they do not know; na te vidu svartha-gati hi viṣṇum; these rascals they do not know what is the actual aim of life. They are, in the groups of ordinary men, they are doing some business opened this transcendental TM shop, that's all. Cheating. Cheating. All of them are are going on, cheating. Nobody knows the real interest is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Nobody knows. Ask any so-called sādhu, yogi, swami—they do not know. They read Bhagavad-gītā but they do not understand. (sic:) Yad jñātv na nivartante tad dhāma parama mama, so what do they understand, these... tyaktv deha punar janma naiti mam eti so'rjuna. They do not believe all these things, therefore they say.. Swami Chinmayananda says that whatever is necessary we shall accept; other ślokas we shall reject. This is his, this rascal's philosophy. As if Kṛṣṇa says something superfluous. They say like that. And the other day some gentleman came, "It is ficticious writing.
Prabhupāda: Then he remains the same animal, cats and dogs. There is no advancement. Therefore you see despite so many rascal philosophers in the Western countries, they simply fight and bomb and cheat and politics, diplomacy. The same—on the surface of the coconut, not inside. So you have to prove that "All of you are rascals. You do not know where to get pleasure." They're missing that point. All rascals, they're putting new philosophy, thesis. So what is the value of that thesis? He does not know. It requires expert. Just like somebody has told: "In this land, there is gold." So somebody's digging here, somebody's digging there, somebody's digging there. And they are, do not find gold, and struggling.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Mental satisfaction. Just like a child. You can cheat him by mental satisfaction, giving him one lozenges and take from him hundred rupees note.
Harikeśa: But he's satis...
Prabhupāda: That is also mental satisfaction.
| Page Title: | Cheating (Conversations, 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 19 of Oct, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=148, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 148 |