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Changing (Conversations - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: That is the truth, eternal truth. What you have said...

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, she can... Paripraśna. From scientific point of view, from logic, that is accepted. But if he (she) thinks blindly something, then it is not possible.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānam
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato... So our, this contribution of India's culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you'll be finished. But here-svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization.

Trivikrama: Now they're changing.

Dr. Patel: In Manipur where Arjuna made...

Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana. And Babhruvāhana was the king's daughter's son, so he remained as the adopted son of the king. Putrikā-suta. He had no son so he took the daughter's son. So this is India's... The kṣatriyas, they're not (indistinct), and some śūdras are ruling.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for this Transcendental Meditation? They are not hogging any propaganda. It is coming this ear and going this ear. They don't care for it. So many others have gone. Who cares for them? They are not serious for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they know it is changing the whole civilization.

Haṁsadūta: There's that one verse you were saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that so many Brahmās may come and go...

Prabhupāda: Unless there is opposition, it is not genuine. It is not genuine or it is not serious. Opposition must be there. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead—there is opposition always, from the very beginning of His birth.

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa had all the opposition throughout His life.

Prabhupāda: Throughout His life. That means genuine Supreme Lord. Before His birth.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, saṅga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-saṅga means that. Tad-yoṣanāt aśu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-saṅga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-saṅga. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-saṅga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, then it is very unfortunate. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, oṁ tat sat. Bhagavān is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavān, so there is no sat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga.

sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa
te karaṇe lāgi more karma bandha phāṅsa

"I given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. That is Vedic injunction. "But I do not care for sat-saṅga." Sat-saṅga chāḍi. You have to take up something after giving up something. So our present position is sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. "I have given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy in asat. The result is I am entangled in karma bandha phāṅsa. According to karma, I am changing my body, and today I am human being and tomorrow I am a dog. And again from dog to another body, another body." This is going on.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, sahaja, this is sahaja. You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Sahaja. Sahaja means you are born along with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is neither born, neither you are born. Sahaja, this word, means saha ja, "along with born." So you are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. When I was born the finger was also born. This is saha-ja. The finger was not separately born. When I was born, the finger was born. So similarly, so long God is there, I am also there. So God is eternal; I am also eternal. You understand this? Then why you are changing bodies? And that is knowledge.

Guest (9) (Indian man): No, why do we at all enter into this circle?

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You want to be a separate Kṛṣṇa. That is your ambition.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...changing. The prescription is there, but I am trying my humble way to present it. That's all. I have no power. But the, the order is there. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād. And people do not know it. Therefore this Bhāgavata is presented. Now give it to the people. Our credit should be that we are giving the statement of Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, as it is. That's all. No adulteration, interpretation. It has been medicine. Medicine is there already. It is not that I have manufactured the medicine. But we are administering in the proper way. Therefore it is becoming... We cannot make any medicine. Medicine is already there. But we don't make any adulteration. As it is, we are administering, and therefore it is coming out nice. (break—kīrtana background) What is that Re...?

Rāmeśvara: Research how to get new sources of food.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What is this scientific presentation? (laughs) It is simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is giving the example, the dehāntara. A child is changing body to boyhood, boyhood... Very simple thing. But the brain is so dull, they cannot understand.

Rāmeśvara: It is too subtle for them to see or measure with their blunt senses, so therefore they do not accept it. They think of it as just...

Prabhupāda: That is for less intelligent. We accept it, even we do not understand thoroughly. But Kṛṣṇa says, authority, śruti; we believe it.

Rāmeśvara: They have too much bad experience being cheated, so they don't believe anyone. In America...

Prabhupāda: Why you should be cheated when Kṛṣṇa says? Kṛṣṇa is not cheating.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: If one understands, then he becomes immediately liberated. And the atheists, they cannot understand, so they remain always conditioned. If actually one understands Kṛṣṇa's, he's liberated immediately. He's simply waiting for changing this body. That's all. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). One who has understood Kṛṣṇa is liberated. Jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate: "Even in this life he is mukta." Find out that, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "You rascal, if you could understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you would have been liberated. And if you were liberated, then you would not ask this question. You do not know Kṛṣṇa, neither it is possible for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. You remain in darkness."

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: How you can prove? You can hear only. There are many things which is beyond your sense perception. The example which I often give, that "Who is your father?" What is proof? The proof is the hearing from mother. That's all. You cannot have any other proof.

Satsvarūpa: "Although celestial beings are not visible to the naked eyes of the inhabitants of this earth, it was due to the influence of Mahārāja Parīkṣit that the demigods also agreed to be visible. The kings used to spend lavishly during such sacrifices as the cloud distributes rains. A cloud is nothing but another form of water, or, in other words, the waters of the earth transform into clouds. Similarly, the charity made by the kings in such sacrifices are but another form of the taxes collected from the citizens. But as the rains fall down very lavishly and appear to be more than necessary, the charity made by such kings also seems to be more than what the citizen needs. Satisfied citizens will never organize agitation against the king, and thus there was no need of changing the monarchial state. Even for a king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was needed a spiritual master for guidance. Without such guidance one cannot make progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master must be bona fide, and one who wants to have self-realization must approach and take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master to achieve real success.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then there is foodgrain. We see this dry land... Because for the last few days, when changing his water he's pouring water here, we see grass growing. Water required. A vast tract of land here is lying. If there is sufficient rainfall you can very easily grow food. But so far rainfall is concerned, it is not in your hand. You rascal scientist, why don't you arrange for this? Everyone knows that from the sea, water is evaporated and is made cloud and thrown all over the land. So why don't you do that? There is enough water.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: They think that by surrendering to the spiritual master, if many people do this, it will be very dangerous because they won't think for themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But you ask to surrender to you, so why shall I not surrender to my spiritual master? What is the use of changing surrendering?

Satsvarūpa: Well, at least if we don't have absolute authority, I may tell you something and if it's not good, you don't have to follow me.

Prabhupāda: So why do you speak nonsense, the same thing, if I haven't got to follow you? Why you waste your time and waste my time?

Hari-śauri: If what he's saying has no value, then why should he speak?

Prabhupāda: Then why do you waste your time?

Satsvarūpa: Relative value.

Prabhupāda: That I have already got.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So you... We have to organize like that. And actually this is greater valuable for their life, changing life.

Hari-śauri: Yes. These book clubs are very big.

Prabhupāda: So now you all GBC make a plan how to introduce the books in every home. The same policy in other languages also. America is English language. Similarly, we can do here also in Hindi language, in Oriya language, or in Europe. So we have got much work ahead. Don't think our business is finished. No. Simply very intelligent we have to do it.

Hari-śauri: Practically speaking, we've hardly got any books translated into any other languages except for English.

Prabhupāda: No. We shall gradually do. When the English language there, from English you can do any language.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That means they have to accept two things—material and spiritual. (break) ...little difficult. Therefore we have to understand from the authority. The same argument, that you have to understand who is your father from the mother. There is no other... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "The real living being is within this body, and he's changing." We have to accept. There is no experimental... (break) Because they are not sober... A sober man does not hesitate. Accept. Dhīras tatra... Therefore this word has been used. Rascal cannot understand. So indirectly one who does not understand, he's a rascal number one. That's all.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "It is not brain-washing, but you have no brain. There is no question of washing. We have to give you brain."

Pradyumna: The brain...

Prabhupāda: Brain means proper intelligence. That is brain. Dhīra, sober, that is brain. Anyone who has got brain, he will understand the simple logic, that how the body is changing. There is something; therefore body's changing from childhood to boyhood. And as soon as that important thing is missing—no more change of body. It is a dead matter. So where is your brain to understand this simple truth? Hm?

Pradyumna: Because it's dulled from sense gratification, they can't under...

Prabhupāda: "So whatever the cause, but you have no brain. Cause may be so many things. But you have no brain to understand the simple truth. Where is your brain? So this movement is not brainwashing. Brain-giving. You have no brain." Therefore śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animal has no brain. They say animal has no soul, but that's not the fact. Animal has no brain. Otherwise, all anatomical, physical, physiological conditions are there. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. But they have no brain.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: After cursing, the body was that, but not before.

Rāmeśvara: This is like artist's license. He has just cursed him, and now his body is changing. But we wanted to show it all at the same time so that they could get the idea.

Prabhupāda: That's all right(?).

Rāmeśvara: And they have shown this taking place in the courtyard, in a courtyard of Śukrācārya's residence.

Prabhupāda: This...

Rāmeśvara: But the question is... This cloth.

Prabhupāda: Cloth should be...

Rāmeśvara: Because he was the spiritual master, would he be living in a very opulent house?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But we... Based on philosophy. You cannot go beyond the philosophy. Philosophy must be there. It cannot be changed. But we have to... You cannot change the wine. That should be the... So therefore, while changing, you can consult.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That will be...

Rāmeśvara: Now, there has been a tendency that I have observed among the writers to try to use what they call outside information sources, like quoting scientists...

Prabhupāda: That, one cannot do it unless he is very expert in transcendental knowledge. This is not possible for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We shall regain again.

Bali-mardana: The government there is changing every few months, new government.

Prabhupāda: If you can introduce this system, varṇāśrama, then it will establish. No more change. This is a rascal's government, this democracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Demoncracy."

Prabhupāda: "Demoncracy."

Hari-śauri: "Demon-crazy."

Prabhupāda: "Demon-crazy." (laughter) Demon and crazy. Not only demon... There are demons whose brain is all right, but they are crazy also.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

So this dehātma-buddhi, "I am this body," is very strong at the present. They think dehātma-buddhi, extended, is very good. And that I was speaking, that a person is taking care of his own body or own dress, but they say, "We shall not take care of my body but for others body also, my son's body, my grandson's body, my relative's body." So that means extending the activities of taking care of the dress. So that I said, that a washerman is taking care of many people's dress, but that does not mean that he is very elevated man. He is nothing but a washerman. But people are interested to take care of the dress. This body is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We are changing the dress. And so long we are interested with dress of the body, not of the body, so the person who has got this body will remain animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So people are not prepared even to hear about this distinction, that "I am not this body; you are not this body."

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.

Rādhā-vallabha: He wasn't changing any of the words. He was just...

Prabhupāda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.

Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.

Rādhā-vallabha: Synonyms. So even...

Prabhupāda: That is his tendency, to correct. That's very bad. He should not do that.

Rādhā-vallabha: So I'll just forget this, then.

Prabhupāda: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So revive it.

Pañcadraviḍa: And they are not so intelligent as others.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: That makes it easier for us.

Hṛdayānanda: They do not have so much tendency for speculation like Americans or Europeans. They do not argue very much philosophically. They like our philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. Practically everyone believes in reincarnation, the soul's changing body. Practically no one will argue these things.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lady.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I think also. He is a very kind doctor. Whole family is attentive. Living is... That we have already discussed. Trees also live for many years. That is not wanted. To live for living forever, that is wanted. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That should be the human endeavor, not this dog race, changing condition, from four legs to four wheels. This logic was never taught, from four legs to four wheels. They are astonished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And anthills. Yes, it's a very unique presentation of the philosophy. They have never heard it so nicely adapted to the modern situation.

Prabhupāda: So they have got farther two days, so I think they will be able to do it. That, my, apartment in Juhu.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whoever may be, but they could not do anything. Neither they can do. They do not know how to elevate them. We know that. We can help. And we are actually doing it. The idea is they are feeling frustration for want of leader. We are prepared to guide them. To the highest perfection of life. (pause) The defect was Gandhi started this harijana movement, keeping them where they are, and at the same time, changing by rubber-stamp, "harijana." That must be failure.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So you have to learn it. How you can become a brāhmaṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like if a man has a disease, just by saying he doesn't have the disease, you can't change the fact that he is diseased. If someone is actually in a certain position, you can't... The way to change it is by actually changing him, not by simply saying, "Now you're okay." Prabhupāda: These are the symptoms of becoming a brāhmaṇa. You develop these symptoms. Who checks you? Practically we are doing all over the world. There is no such thing. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the measures... Prabhupāda: Caste system should not be abolished, but it must be properly established. That is wanted. If you have got any defect in the eye, not that the eye should be plucked out. But it should be treated and brought into the normal condition. That is wanted. That we admit. You want to become brāhmaṇa without brahminical qualification. Not only you, everyone wants.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They are not changing?

Upendra: He has stopped bringing flowers. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Later he will bring. I told him. These should be probably taken down after one day. They get brown. Prabhupāda: These can be distributed to the devotees. Today I have explained the Bhāgavata, prāṇamānāya:(?) how this bodily concept of life is dangerous. These things they do not know. Leaders, big, big papers, big, big propaganda. What is the purpose of life and how dangerous this civilization is, bodily concept of life, they do not know. Bhagavad-gītā begins when they understand that "You are not this body." The whole subject matter is on that soul, the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Bhojendra-gehe 'gni-śikheva ruddhā, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. I see Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam so exalted knowledge and so beautifully literary presented. Śrīmat. Śrīmat means beautiful. Throughout the whole world, you won't find any literature. This is India's fortune, and they are keeping it packed up. Jñāna-khaleṣu. Jñāna-khala means envious. You have got some knowledge, but you are envious. You don't want to distribute to anyone. They are called jñāna-khala.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is... We have got this... Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi's reading Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence—when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami said, certain ideas.

Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Kṛṣṇa does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Kṛṣṇa says, "No," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And then by flit(?) he will be killed. "No, no, sir, I am your countryman, I am countryman. I belong to the same nation." "Who cares for you, flies, cockroaches? Kill them. American flies, who cares for you?" "I was a staunch nationalist. Now I have become fly. Don't kill me." "Who cares for you?" Will they excuse American flies, American cockroaches? But dehāntara-prāpti. That you cannot avoid. Then where is your nationalism? Nation means one who has taken birth in that land. The cockroach, the flies, the animals, they also born in that land, but who cares for them? Dehāntara-prāpti. So you are great nationalist. But the body is changed. How can you save yourself, not become a cockroach? Because the body is changing. That is in other's hand, Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By superior supervision. It is not your choice. Here is dehāntara-prāpti. "Make me president body." "No, no, that is not your choice. You have to accept what I will give you. It will be just by your work, infection of the modes of nature." Daiva-netreṇa. This is a great science. They do not know it. Instead of understanding their life fictitious, they are asking whether Kṛṣṇa is real or fictitious. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, and on fictitious Kṛṣṇa the big, big ācāryas, they have written so many books. Just see their intelligence. He's a big lawyer. That is your intelligence. Big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, such stalwarts. Their notes, apprising notes, how they have studied. And they have wasted their time on some fictitious? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has spoiled His life after a fictitious? How rascaldom.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He plans to meet with Svarūpa Dāmodara in Boston when he returns in July to discuss the possible films to make. He says he decided with Svarūpa Dāmodara that it would be best to wait before making a film until they have published their thesis and had some feedback from the material scientists. It's a good point. "Because their theories are always changing, our scientists also have to change their approach. It is for this reason that a film does not seem so suitable for their purposes, because it cannot be so easily changed as with a slide presentation. Also Svarūpa Dāmodara's presentation is highly scientific, and I feel somewhat dry for the film medium, which is more an artistic medium."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he frankly admits that it is a little difficult to make a very scientific film because it may become very, you know, a little bit dry for the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they may not film. Their lecture is good. That's all.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So my only point is, should we book any specific date until it from, here from Mr....?

Prabhupāda: No, you... Suppose tentatively we accept that we shall start a program on Sunday. In that way you book. So if Jetthi cannot come, then we shall wait. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To me it's nothing, but they have to agree at the railway to change the booking.

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no need of changing booking. We go there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, oh, we go, and we wait there.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's all right. I have no... I mean... My point is that the longer we have to book, the better. Not that we change ten days...

Prabhupāda: No. Booking should be accepted any day is available.

Kārttikeya: We'll wait there only.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Life is within the body, the soul. And because the soul is there, therefore a baby is becoming child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, young man becoming old man, and the old man, when he passes, he gets another body. Very simple thing. As you are changing your body, now you're changing this body—you are there actually—so you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati: (BG 2.13) "Those who are sober, intelligent, they are not disturbed." So if this is the fact, dehāntara-prāpti... After this body you have to accept another body. If you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept... There is no question of acceptance. You'll be forced to accept. It is not that your choice. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. You have to accept one body according to your karma. If you have behaved like a human being, you can get the body of a human being. If you have behaved like a dog, you'll get the body of a dog. And if you have behaved like demigod, you'll get.
Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned...?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). So as we are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? (Hindi) If you have to change your body... Today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Janeṣu abhijñeṣu. Sādhu means one who is in the knowledge. Otherwise anyone can become a sādhu by changing the dress.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: A sādhu... The description of sādhu is given in the śāstra, titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ... Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ... (SB 3.25.21).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suhṛdaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. And before that, there is... Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. These are the description of sādhu. Sādhu titikṣavaḥ, very tolerant. For preaching work they have to meet so many obstacles, and still, they go on, titikṣavaḥ. Titikṣā is the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Śamo damas titikṣā. So a sādhu... Titikṣavaḥ. He has to meet so many obstacles. Just see this judgment. We have to meet so many obstacles. But we cannot give up. Despite all obstacles, we have to go on. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ, suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. A sādhu is not a friend of a particular community, person or religion, no.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument... So our proposal is that unless the limbs are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the limbs of Bhagavad-gītā, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties, Ch.D., D.A.C., Ph.D....

Sita Ram Singh: All they have got a party for their own selfish end. Actually though I belong toward the party, but I must (indistinct). Because they have all got their own selfish aims.

Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The system of management will go on as it is now. There is no need of changing. The money which is in my personal name in different banks, that is being spent for the society, and it will be society property. In this connection a few deposits, which is allowing some pension to the members of my former family, may not be touched. That's all, two points. Hm? What do you think? So...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What can I suggest?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That in regard to the three temples, Māyāpur, Bombay and Vṛndāvana, you should designate who you want the trustees to be.

Prabhupāda: That I shall do.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā (CC Madhya 7.128). One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's order, the same paramparā, he can become guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums)

Satsvarūpa: That's all the questions.

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of changing GBC.

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: Rather, one who is competent, he can be selected to act by the board of the GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, if someone has a falldown, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down...

Prabhupāda: He should be replaced.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child." That we have given in pictures, change of body. Change of body is going on. Why these rascals cannot understand? What is their intelligence? Therefore the real problem is the change of body should be stopped. And that is real scientific advancement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stop change of the body. We are trying to follow this culture. They say, "It is impossible." So what is their knowledge of? Why the scientists cannot at least stop change of body? Young man... When I was young man, sir, stout and strong, then people came here. Now, on account of change of body, I am now invalid. Why the scientists cannot stop this? This is change of body. Simply bluff. They are big man amongst the rascals. They have not contributed anything. They say, "Change of body cannot be done"? What do they say? A young man is becoming old man. This is not change of body? Either stop this... And accept, soul is eternal; body is changing. What you can do? You cannot stop the change. Young man became old man. Or accept it is change of body.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Upendra: They accept that it's changing. Everything is changing in nature.

Prabhupāda: Changing? Stop it. Change for the good. Why for the bad? Change is inherent. That I know. I am saying that. But why should we change? Young man becoming invalid old man? Stop it.

Śatadhanya: They may agree that it changes, but then they say that at death then everything is finished.

Prabhupāda: Then you stop it.

Śatadhanya: No more change.

Prabhupāda: Then you stop.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?

Śatadhanya: They have no civilization.

Prabhupāda: No, where is civilization? If you remain like animals, where is that civilization?

Śatadhanya: Just from the daily newspaper one can see that it is all madness, insane. (break)

Prabhupāda: Because whole Vedic knowledge is concentrated on the point how to stop birth and death. Eternal life. That is... (Bengali) (end)

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhramyādbhiḥ. There are different forms of bodies of jīva. That is also stated. Jalajā nava-lakṣānī sthavara lakṣa-vimśati. So first of all, general, from water. That you have got experience. Fish is coming. As soon as there is some reservoir of water, after some day mosquito will come, fish will come, many other bugs and germs will come, jalajā. And their number is also given, nava-lakṣānī. In this way, bhramyādbhir jīva-jāti, the soul, the living entity, is wandering, jīva-jātiṣu. Then he gets a human form of life. The civilization is there. And five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So what this nonsense Darwin will tell us? Rascals. We have already information-jīva-jāti, they are already existing, one after another. (break) "...missing, fossil." What is this nonsense? What is missing? The monkeys, they, your father, is there, monkey. Where is monkey is missing? Your father, grandfather is there. So why you have got this body of all a sudden? Enjoy. You have to accept. You are changing body from monkey to man. So these so-called scientists, they are hovering for some false understanding. Now they should come to welcome this point and accept that living entity is completely different from these eight elements, physical or chemical or mental. This should be propagated.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For nothing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But all in their own direction...

Prabhupāda: Actually the body is changing. All his efforts-futile. And he is eternal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also a blow to the communist world, Communism also. It has several effects.

Prabhupāda: That scientist said life slipped away from his...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, somehow life escaped from his fingers. So that's a proper word. I'm quoting his word, using it as an authentic quote from them. We also use some words which will be not so favorable when they read these things, our things. We're also trying to criticize them, that they are...

Prabhupāda: That do.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how they can be reliable, so-called, this way...? (background whispering) Hm?

Yaśodā-nandana: In the Gurukula we were teaching Īśopaniṣad class to the children. So we took... (break) ...Prabhupāda and the words which the recent edition of the Press is wrong. Many changes were brought. They were trying to make better English, but sometimes, to make better English, I think they were making philosophical mistakes also. There is no so much need of making so much better English. Your English is sufficient. It is very clear, very simple. We have caught over 125 changes. They're changing so many things. We are wondering if this is necessary. I will show you today. I have kept the book.

Prabhupāda: I know that these rascals are doing. What can be done? How they can be relied on?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not the responsibility of the BBT trustee, to see these things don't change without Prabhupāda's sanction?

Prabhupāda: And Rāmeśvara is indulging this. The great rascal is that Jagannātha? He's there in Los Angeles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jagannātha dāsa?

Prabhupāda: Maybe.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you bring this to Satsvarūpa. They cannot change anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we stopped writing article for Back to Godhead since then because...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, I think, with Satsvarūpa there, you won't have that problem of changing like that. He wrote a letter saying that one of his first things is that he will not change what is given there unless... He will not make changes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, if they consult us, even with changing, that's all right. But they just edit here and there and cut it out, certain things. They're changing the whole meaning. And that makes sometimes nonsense instead of making sense.

Prabhupāda: So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There has to be strong philosophical leaders who can check this, like Satsvarūpa and Jayādvaita.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that change takes place according to your mentality. You are subtle thing, psychological. One man is thief. By change, he can become a saintly person. One man is saintly person; he becomes a thief. So that change, according to three qualities... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). You cannot ascertain immediately because you are changing from sattva-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to tamo-guṇa. So how you can be ascertained? But there will be change. That is fixed. So we have to take this word change. So you cannot expect what changes. Are you going to be dog or hog or god? That will depend on your work. How you can expect to see, that "I do not see"? But that is not certain. There are 8,400,000's of different types of change of body. But you have to change. Not that you have to become a dog. You can become a demigod. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti... But change is certain. So if change takes place, then where is your position? Whatever you have done-śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you die, what you will see? Your eyes are taken away. What you will see? You say, "I die." Then what you will see after death? A dead man has got eyes. Can he see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they say, "How have you seen, that you are telling us what will...?"

Prabhupāda: Seen by intelligence. (break) We are accepting everything like that.

Devotee (3): So they will say, "We accept there is a change of bodies. So then life is simply changing bodies. There is no more than this, simply..."

Prabhupāda: No, there is stoppage of change of body when you...

Devotee (3): How so?

Prabhupāda: How you... How you know? You are a rascal. What do you know? You learn it. You are rascal. What you know? You become intelligent. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You are a rascal. What do you know? The difficulty is that you are rascal; you want to take the position of a learned man. And that is your fault. You do not accept your position, that you are a rascal.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. And if nice children are there in the society, they will become responsible men. Then there will be no disturbance in the society. Everything will go on smoothly. Brāhmaṇa is acting as brāhmaṇa; kṣatriya is acting as... They are both... No quarrel. No animosity. Everyone is cooperating with one another. The whole society becomes peaceful. Family becomes peaceful. The man personally becomes peaceful. Then he will be able to make progress. Kutaḥ śānti ayuktasya. If you are not peaceful, how you can attain? Or if you are not a devotee, you cannot be peaceful. Or if you are not peaceful, you cannot become devotee. But if you can become devotee, you become peaceful. So I have studied practically. Vedic way of simple life is the best. And unless you adopt the Vedic way of simple life, you'll be implicated, material desires. There is no end. The Western civilization, they are after sense gratification, but there is no limit where it will end. The psychology is that everything new. They are changing—"change, change, change." And there is no limit. Where the sense gratification will be satisfied, this much? Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma. Kāmasya na indriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā (BG 18.44). Na indriya-prītiḥ. We require sense gratification—we have got senses—but not for the matter of sense. Just to live. Just like sleeping—we require bedding. And why shall I be dissatisfied if there is no good bedstead and no silk, silver and, or, and this, that, so...? Within my means, whatever comforts are available, I make satisfaction. Why shall I make competition?

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anthropology. Anthropology we believe; as it is stated in the Vedas, we believe, one after another. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarāḥ... That is the... The soul is changing. So there is no question of... "Survival of the fittest." Nonsense. Who is fit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one except the devotee is fit.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is dying. Who is the fittest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotee is alone eternal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the devotees, they do not know. They are all rascals, animals. But here, this statement, "fittest," who is fittest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really no one.

Prabhupāda: Still the theory is going on, "Survival of the fittest."

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I'll give you whatever you demand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he is completely surrendered.

Prabhupāda: There is no problem. Now show us. Let us practically see that what has happened by changing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Changing. You have to show some results now.

Mr. Myer: Quite right. Quite right.

Prabhupāda: Or doing something or not doing, whatever I'll order...

Mr. Myer: No, this may mean certain major reorganization in terms of the managing account. It is sort of personal. So it will have to be...

Prabhupāda: They'll do. They'll do whatever I ask.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rādhā-Govinda Mandir. And the center was that Mulliks Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. This Mulliks, some of them were capitalist. Capitalist means rich men, they kept prostitute. But are still devotee. In the morning they would, after taking bath and everything, changing clothes, they must go to see Rādhā-Govinda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they liked to see Rādhā-Govinda.

Prabhupāda: They were devotee. Without seeing Rādhā-Govinda, they would not take their...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was the Deity very nicely worshiped?

Prabhupāda: Oh, at that time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in our temples. Really?

Prabhupāda: Dress, jewelry, and foodstuff, oh... Would offer kacuris, very big, first-class, and luci, all very crispy.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...

Mr. Myer: No, that will be change of party. One man is in Congress. One is in (indistinct). Then he goes to Congress. Wherever he can get an office, they are changing party. They are not all thinking of the spirit.

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Mr. Myer: They think anything is possible, anything.(?) Do they not preach when they are congressmen? Tomorrow Congress is going to power. Then Janata comes to power. All the time they are changing, everyone. They just want personal gain at any cost.

Prabhupāda: That is why we say the stool, this side and that side... After all, it is stool. Somebody says, "This side is better than that side." Stool is stool when in this side or that side. That is going on. Guer ei pitaro(?). But they are so intelligent, they say, "No, no, this side is better. It has dried up." They are rascals like that. It is stool. It is untouchable. It is... On all side it is bad, but they are thinking, "This side..." This is their intelligence. What can I do? But if they consult us, they'll be benefited.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They never get tired of trying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They think by changing the body... (microphone moving) ...demigod's... That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra. The facility is in that you have to die, you have to take again birth and again begin the same tasting, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. No improvement of taste but improvement of the container. If you go by bullock cart and if you go by motorcar, the transport is the same. But we are thinking, "Now we have improved scientific." That's all. First of all improve that you'll not die. Because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So where is that improvement? That improvement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9).

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is nothing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it changing the condition at all? We should think how to get rid of it.

Prabhupāda: How to rid?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember one thing you were taking to loosen the phlegm in Māyāpur when you had a cough. You were taking a little hot lemon juice in the mornings.

Prabhupāda: You can give me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember that. It seemed to have good effects. It also helped for digestion.

Prabhupāda: So any other?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Actually I'm right in the middle of doing these accounts, so I probably should...

Prabhupāda: (coughing) So this bank manager came. It means they are little serious.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Change, change for the worse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think even in America things were better.

Prabhupāda: There things are changing fast.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we keep on going strong.

Prabhupāda: Every middle-class man could hold some festival, and society feast very occasionally. Now cannot, they cannot even receive a guest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In fact the government for a while had passed a law that prasādam could not be served to any more than so many people, such and such amount of people. They were prohibiting. I remember a couple of years ago we were trying to get āṭā or something, and they said, "Oh, no, you cannot have any big meetings where you feed people. We are short of things, so you cannot." "Food shortage," they said.

Prabhupāda: So they are eating. That means you want to keep people starving.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gaurasundara: Yes. I think if I can take a few days I'll go and order Deities.

Prabhupāda: How big?

Gaurasundara: I would like to be able to carry them back on the airplane. I don't know how big I can carry them, but I'll see.

Prabhupāda: I think there is no need of changing Deity.

Gaurasundara: Leave small?

Prabhupāda: Huh? You have got?

Gaurasundara: Small.

Prabhupāda: Small.

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Because you are maintaining the temple as private. So make nice clothes, decorations.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the doll project? That nice museum?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Some big photographers, they are very much attracted, so they made a new, a second set of the changing bodies for the (faulty recording) ...on a mountain, some mountain, or a large hill in California, and all day this national publicity photographer took pictures of it for the press. He said he wants to make this the best-known picture of the year. I don't know where it's going to be released, but he wants to have it put in a big magazine. There's two of them. They both wanted the rights to take pictures of it. So they let the more famous one of the two... (indistinct)

Śrutakīrti: They set that exhibit up at the Ratha-yātrā festival. They had one large tent of the "Changing of the Bodies" exhibit, and myself and another devotee went to go see it, but there were so many people in line that we changed our mind. Several hundred people were standing waiting to see that exhibit. It's going to be very famous, "Changing of the Bodies."

Prabhupāda: It is a new thing. Many people come to see in our exhibition... (break)

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: (changing mattress?) It's a special kind of mattress that helps prevent sores.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A little more spacious, yes. Same palanquin. Simply they have increased the size. (break)

Bhakti-prema: ...chanting every morning. It came in my mind all the time.

Prabhupāda: Live comfortably. We have got nice place, and whatever comfort you want, you'll get. These Americans, Europeans... When I was in London, I was thinking of getting you there. Anyway, by Kṛṣṇa's grace you have come. Good for us, good for you.

Bhakti-prema: Gone down(?) over the subject matter about esoteric geography and esoteric history, and I have gotten many good points more.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Perhaps Kṛṣṇa wanted it.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You wanted to do something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were talking about... Not now. I think a little while later giving you full sponge bath and then changing the sheets. You want to do it now? We can do it now.

Prabhupāda: No. You can do later.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think if we do it... Don't do it now 'cause he already bathed. Upendra thinks this is a convenient time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, 'cause you're sitting up already. He'll give you a light sponge bath. Is that all right? Okay. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Kapoor: He came? Again he came? Did Hakeemji come? Did the doctor come? Hakeemji?

Prabhupāda: When he came? He did not come.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.

Jayapatākā: Yes. No, we have no intention to drop the charges. That will not clear our name. The day I returned, the Secretary General... Rather, the General Secretary of the State Congress Party, Mr. K. K. Sukla, he just happened to visit our mandira, and he heard the whole story, and he said that he'll give whatever support he can, and if they get back into any power, then he'll see that our programs get full assistance. Then our lawyer told us that he has been talking to some ministers in the present Communist government, and they're saying that they're willing to support our movement if we do some works that are beneficial for the people. They're not saying that we're not doing any so far, but any other things like the bridges or the schemes we have, they're willing to give us support for those. By your mercy everything is gradually changing around. The tantric astrologer there, he gave some predictions.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayapatākā: Well, about two weeks ago he had told Bhavānanda that he would be called to Vṛndāvana and that all the GBCs or leaders of the Society would be called to Vṛndāvana to see Your Divine Grace.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your signatures were fairly good. Some of them were very good. They remarked that the signature was strong... (break) I tried to make it as quick as possible. Now I have the receipts, and I will keep them locked in the almirah just like we did last time. And after about one week we'll be able to get the original documents after they've been registered. In the meantime, on Monday we're going to open up a bank account in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust in Punjab National Bank, New Delhi. Girirāja, who is the secretary of the Trust, and Bhavānanda Mahārāja, who are the treasurers, will open the account. So the interest from the fixed deposits will go directly into that account. Is that nice? That was your idea. And the bank will be happy that we're keeping the money in their bank. All of your plans are perfect, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And our perfection is simply to carry them out without changing in any way. You have such complete plans that we don't have to do anything new. We have to work our whole lifetime simply to carry out what you've planned. Even then we won't be able to complete everything. We'll have to trust to those who come after us to finish everything. So I'll just finish everything now with them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and lock everything away, and then I'll come back. I don't want to leave Girirāja alone. It's nice to do everything together, two. I'll come right back afterwards. (break)

Prabhupāda: The Trust deed somebody may read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I can bring it just now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Page Title:Changing (Conversations - 1977)
Compiler:SunitaS, Mayapur
Created:07 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=62, Let=0
No. of Quotes:62