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Cats and dogs (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"cat and dog" |"cats and dogs" |"dog and cat" |"dogs and cats"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Unless they glorify their imperfection, how they can stand? (laughter) They have no standing. If they do not glorify, then they are proved rascals. There will be no argument. They'll have to accept that "we are rascals." Therefore they have to glorify. The glorifying society... That is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. The glorifying society is consisting of ass, camel, hog, and what is the other?

Devotees: Dog.

Prabhupāda: Dog. So we... śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are all ass, camels, dogs, like that and they are praising each other. "Oh, you have discovered this. Oh, how nice you are. (laughter) How nice you are." But we understand the praiser and the praised, both are dogs and cats. That's all. So we don't give any benefit. It is a mutual praising society of cats and dogs, so we don't give any benefit. Now, they can also accuse us in the same way, that "You are also the society of cats and dog, mutual praising society." So... Now, who will judge whether they are right or we are right? Who will judge? Eh? There must be some judgement. Everyone will say that "I am right." But who judges? There must be a judge, that through both side the lawyers is fighting, that "My case is right." Then who will give judgement? There must be one judge. So who is that judge?

Prajāpati: śāstra, guru, sādhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the judge. Therefore we quote from Vedic literatures. As soon as we speak something, immediately quote Vedic literature. That is the way.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...why your child is less conscious than yourself?

Gurukṛpā: Because he's not developed.

Prabhupāda: He's also living entity. Why he's foolish, and why you are intelligent? What is the answer?

Gurukṛpā: Because the consciousness is more developed.

Prabhupāda: Then develop... So you develop your consciousness. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa.

Gurukṛpā: So I must be more fortunate than the other living entities in my body.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurukṛpā: The other living entities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is called, human life is so valuable. You are not cats and dogs. You have got the opportunity to understand God, Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Only by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So this yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Yajñārthe karma. So when you miss this yajña, then everything becomes disturbed. When you become godless then the whole thing will be disturbed. And practically also, if you pay income tax, then government arrangement is everything, nicely going on. And as soon as stop income tax, then whole thing... There is no finance, there is deficit, this, that, so many things. So yajña is yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Everything should be done for the Yajña, for Viṣṇu. Then everything is in order. In Kali-yuga, other, costly yajñas are not possible. Therefore yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Saṅkīrtana. But these rascals will not take. If you say that "This simple yajña, you take it. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. All problems will be solved," they will not believe. They will not take it. They are so misfortunate. Śāstra says, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Su-medhasaḥ. Those who have got good brain, they take up this yajña process. Su-medhasaḥ. And another word is alpa-medhasaḥ, less brain substance. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). They are doing all other things, but not yajña. Therefore alpa-medhasām: their brain substance is small. And here is su-medhasaḥ. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). That is the sign of merit: You do something which will produce good result. And if you, cats and dogs, if you simply jump over, what you will do result? That Lilavati Munshi of Bombay, she is the wife of a big man, K. Munshi. So she was asking, "Swamiji, how you made like this?" Everyone is surprised because nobody has done like this. I said that "Because I have taken the proper method, therefore it is done so nicely." The method must be right. It may be simple, but it must be right method.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Candanācārya: But it also requires determination to follow the tapasya.

Prabhupāda: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog. He is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises, that "In the name of God," "In the name of Bible." So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. It is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being. Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor. (break)

Yaśodānandana: ...you mentioned that the vaiśyas, they are considered to be the capitalists and the śūdras, they are considered to be the Communist. And you mentioned that eventually the communists will take over the capitalists. So how long do you think that will happen?

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America taking care of the dogs and cats is a very big business. It's a very big business.

Karandhara: They even have cemeteries.

Candanācārya: They buy ten thousand dollar necklace for their dog.

Prabhupāda: Just see how much attracted.

Candanācārya: Yes, when they die, they leave all their money to the dog.

Prabhupāda: So why they refuse to become a dog? Why they refuse to become a dog?

Karandhara: Some of them would like to become.

Umāpati: Some of them think dogs and cats are more intelligent than people.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent, ant is also intelligent than any human being. So they live within the hole of wall, and there is no scarcity. Can you become like that? You live within your apartment and there is no scarcity. Wherefrom he gets food? They are more intelligent than human being. Everyone has got some specific talent, either human being or cats and dogs or ants, everyone. Just like the vultures, they go four miles, five miles above and they can find out where is a corpse, where is a dead body. But you cannot do that. You see? Immediately pounce on it. Hundreds of vulture will come. Did you not see it? So they are intelligent more than human being. Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you love children for making them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is loving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So if you help... What is our movement? Why I have come to your country? Because to make you Kṛṣṇa conscious. So there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why what is the business, I have come to you? I have no business. Because I love Kṛṣṇa, I want to see all, everybody in the world to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise why in this old age we are trying so much? Similarly, if you love your children to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundreds of children and make them. That is love of Kṛṣṇa. And if you make them cats and dogs, then one children producing is also sinful. That is also sinful. But if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundreds of children. That is Kṛṣṇa's love.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Nitāi: Sometimes we tell them that this life is only full of miseries, and they say, "What do you mean?"

Prabhupāda: No, that is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. They do not know, they do not distinguish what is misery and what is happiness. They have no sense, no brain. That is their foolishness.

Nitāi: So we can convince them by pointing out...?

Prabhupāda: They cannot convince them because they are so rascal, so foolish, that they have no brain to understand what is the distinction. They have no brain. Just like cats and dogs. That is their fallen condition. Yes.

Sudāmā: They believe that this misery is good.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila (CC Madhya 20.117).

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And in India still, they are not so degraded. You see. Even at night you can safely walk on the street. But in Europe, America, you cannot with confidence walk alone in the big, big streets. So human being has become so degraded. Less than animals. They can attack you. Just like in the forest any ferocious animal can attack you at any minute. The whole big, big cities have become like that. (break) ...example that they have started that United Nations. What they have done actually? United Nations. Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: Nothing.

Prabhupāda: Have they done anything progressive?

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So? Big, big advertising, "United Nations." All nations, you... Because all the cats and dogs united. What they can do? If the all the world's cats and dogs meet together to make a formula, will they be able? (laughter) So actually, this is the proof. They're all cats and dogs. What do they know how to unite, how to live in peace. They do not know even. Because they're animal, cats and dogs. This is the proof. Just study this institution. What they have done? Am I right or wrong?

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

In every birth one can get father and mother, but to get the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, that is not possible in every birth. That is only possible in this human form. The cats and dogs, they have got their father and mother. Therefore if we become father, mother like cats and dogs, there is no need of such... Kṛṣṇa-guru nāhi mile bhaja... The father helps the children to achieve Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is real father. (break) ...they avoid that trap, they avoid association of women. But these women are not ordinary women. They are preachers. They are preachers. They are Vaiṣṇava. By their association, one becomes a Vaiṣṇava. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sadṛśo mayā. Yes. "I'll protect my money in this way. I shall keep money in this way so that my sons, grandsons, and great-grandsons will enjoy. And I am going to become a cat and dog, doesn't matter. (everyone laughs) My grandson will enjoy." These are the plans. Where this rascal is going, he has no information. He has no information where he is going, but he is making provisions for his great-grandson. He does not know who is coming to be his great-grandson. This is asura program. You ask these asuras that "If you do not believe in the next life, then why you are working so hard?" They reply, "For the next generation." Next generation. And if you do not believe in the next life, what is the meaning of next generation? They say like that. This is the asuric civilization. (Sanskrit)

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's... You see? He does not know what is the scheme of Vedas. You cannot stop meat-eating all of a sudden. But you can raise some restriction. These rascals who are meat-eaters, if you say, "Don't eat meat," he'll never do that. Therefore, "Yes, you can eat meat, just after offering to the goddess Kālī," and in this way, that means, once in the month, that means restricted. Restricted. So, Vedas means they're taking gradually, not that, like a foolish, "You don't do this." You cannot do that. That is Vedic authority. The Vedas are meant for everyone. Those who are meat-eaters, you cannot stop them all of a sudden. Similarly, drunkards. You cannot stop them, drunkards, "Don't drink." They'll not hear you. Therefore restriction. "Yes, you can drink, after offering to the devī," and that means restriction. So what is the meaning of marriage? Because sex like the cats and dogs, stop it. Just get married. In this way, otherwise, you may say "No marriage." Just like, the other day these sannyāsīs come, because saw woman was sitting, they'll not enter. But I saw their teeth was so unclean, and the dress was never washed. But they have got this restriction, no seeing of woman.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (4): He says that human beings and cats and dogs are God Himself. That means...

Mr. Sar: No, no, no, no. That's...

Prabhupāda: No, that's... (break) ...(the version) of the cats and dogs, not of Kṛṣṇa. That is the... This is the version of the cats and dogs. Kṛṣṇa says, nahaṁ tesu.

Dr. Patel: Nahaṁ teṣu te mayi. "They are in Me. Not I am in them."

Mr. Sar: Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam..., mohitaṁ nābhijānāti...

Prabhupāda: Ah! Mohitaṁ, bewildered by the three modes of nature, they cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...right civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Viṣṇu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.
Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is in the heart of a dog also. Then dog is also Kṛṣṇa. So why one should go to the temple? He can worship his dog at home. If this logic is all right. (break) ...the verdict of the Rāmakrishna mission, "You can worship whatever you like. That is God." And therefore they have manufactured this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa. (break) Jāta-karma-saṁskāra, saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformatory method, begins before the birth. Before the birth, when the father and mother have sex, that is called garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. That is also another ceremony. It is not a hidden fact. So saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ. Otherwise it is birth like cats and dogs. That is Vedic civlization, saṁskāra before the birth and immediately after the birth, then one after another. This is called jata-karma; then nāma-karma; then when he is grown boy, upanayana-saṁskāra, dīkṣā-saṁskāra; then when he is grown up and marriage... Marriage is also another saṁskāra. In this way there are daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So unless one goes through all the saṁskāras, he is not accepted as higher caste. He is śūdra. In a brāhmaṇa family, if the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, so it is said that immediately the whole family becomes śūdra, no more brāhmaṇas. Then where is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is going on? Nobody takes care of garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Still, they are declaring that "I am brāhmaṇa." Therefore the conclusion is kālau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "Everyone is śūdra." (break) ...no education. Still, one is called paṇḍitji. What is the meaning of this "paṇḍitji?" If he is not learned, then why do you call him paṇḍitji? (laughing) (break) That paṇḍiya is also another form of paṇḍita.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...very nice building. And one day death will come, "Oh, what is this?" Finish now. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). And as soon as death comes, all this construction becomes ah, finished. You have to begin another chapter, either as human being or as bird or cats and dogs or anything. That is another thing. But they do not know this. They are thinking that "This construction work will save me."

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...purpose of life. But they do not know what is the purpose of life. They have taken the idea of cats and dogs, simply sense gratification. Now, where, how there will be good government.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In the śāstras we see that Ṛṣabhadeva, the father of Mahārāja Bharata, under whose name this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa, He taught His one hundred sons, "My dear boys, this human form of life is not meant for working hard like cats and dogs for sense gratification." Ultimate end is sense gratification, satisfying the senses. This is the business of the cats and hogs, or dogs and hogs. The hog is whole day working to find out stool: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he gets some stool, little strength, immediately sex life, without any discrimination whether she is mother or sister or daughter. This kind of life is described in the śāstras as hog civilization. So at the present moment, without any reference to God consciousness, people are being taught to satisfy the senses, work very hard, and ruin the chance of human life.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: You see, so long people will remain under the bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am Irish," "I am English," "I am American," "I am Italian," so long this misconception will go on, fight will go on. You see? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... There is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like you cannot stop fighting between the dogs and cats. Why there is fighting? Because the dog is thinking, "I am dog." The cat is thinking, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think as Irishman, "I am Englishman," it is the same thing. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," so if I think, "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," I am no better than the dog. So as we cannot stop the fighting between dogs, similarly, so long people will remain in bodily concept of life, the fighting cannot be stopped.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. In the Vedic civilization even an enemy comes to your home, he should be offered respect. Take more. Now, these foodstuffs are meant for human being. They are not meant for cats and dogs. You should produce more of this foodstuff. And the remaining balance, the skin, you can offer to the animal. They will eat. You take the substance, and the outward, external skin you offer to the animals, and he will eat. She gives you milk. This is cooperation. You produce... Man can produce fruits and flowers, grains, take the substance, and the rejected portion give to the animal. She gives you milk. You require milk. This is cooperation.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no need of printing books.

Bhagavān: Some people would be engaged in copying books.

Prabhupāda: No, you engage yourself. If you want book, that book, you copy yourself. Why someone should be engaged for you? You have got enough time. You are not going to the factory or hundred miles for your earning livelihood. You are on the local space. You have got enough time. You just take, copy. That's all. Minimize your unnecessary waste of time. Save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go back to home. This is our idea. Instead of chanting twenty-five rounds, you chant hundred rounds. That is utilization of proper time. Instead of begetting cats and dogs, you just beget one child, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the ideal life. What is the use of using sex life unnecessarily? Therefore only for begetting nice child one should have sex life. This is ideal life. Not that you use sex life, contraceptive method. This is all demonism. But they cannot do without it. Because they have no other engagement, they do not know how nice Kṛṣṇa is and how pleasurable it is to reciprocate with Kṛṣṇa, Therefore they go to the dog's pleasure, sex life on the street and there, on the beach. That's all. They have been educated like dogs. Therefore they want it.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: If there is no opposite elements, there is no need of weapons. If I am not your enemy, there is no fear. We are preaching this philosophy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: (BG 18.54) "As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become jubilant." So where is your enemy? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then where is your enemy? Formerly, a man might have become enemy of another man. But this demonic civilization has created nation to nation, country to country, community to community, all enemies. And on account of this communistic enemy, so many innocent people are killed. I have seen in Calcutta during the partition days. So many innocent Hindus and Muslims were killed. Any (indistinct), very quickly this Communistic feeling is aroused, and they fight, like cats and dogs. "Oh, here is another dog! Here is another dog, coming from another neighborhood." So this is demonic civilization. If you want to go to some country, you have to take visa, permission, this, that, so many. Why? Vedic civilization is "You come to my country. Welcome. You are my guest." Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam: "Even one is enemy, when he comes to my house, he is my honorable guest." And here, they are so much afraid that you keep dogs. The dog is kept here. (loud truck noise)

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He remained completely brahmacārī, although naked he is. He is. He doesn't require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyāsadeva, a personality like Vyāsadeva, said, "Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked." They said that "He is paramahaṁsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are gṛhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman." So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyāsī. What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession. Otherwise, according to Vedic civilization, there is no need of sex life. Because it is entanglement, simply entanglement. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). The example has been given. There is itching between the two hands. That's all. That means the itching disease is increased. This has been the description of sex life. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Although behind the sex life there are so many troubles, but still the rascals do not cease. Either illicit sex or legal sex... Legal sex you beget children. There are so many troubles. You have to raise them nicely, you have to give them education, you must be situated nicely. That is the duty of father. Otherwise, he would go on, begetting like cats and dogs, no responsibility. Just like some of our students, immediately married and again, "Give me sannyāsa." What is this? Irresponsible, that's all. Irresponsibility. So these things are not required at all. These things are not required. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. After marrying they see it is very great responsibility. "Now let me take sannyāsa." That's all. Why you marry? Because he finds that after marriage there are so many difficulties. So irresponsible man. So after there is difficulties; that's a fact. So why should you go to the difficulty? Therefore the conclusion is the married life is not required. But if you cannot tolerate, all right, get this concession, live very gentlemanly. This is marriage. Otherwise for higher sense, higher elevation... High elevation, of course, one who is actually on the higher elevation, he is married or not married, it doesn't matter. But on the whole, the sex life is not necessary.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Viṣaya means the facilities for sense enjoyment. That is called viṣaya. Our process is viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. One has to give up this viṣaya and relish the transcendental bliss. It is a different platform. And these persons, bodily concept of life, their only enjoyment is this viṣaya. So śāstra says that you are after viṣaya. This is available in any life. Why you are repeating this viṣaya in different forms of life either as bird or beast or tree or human being or cats and dogs? Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Again and again, the same thing, in different forms. So those who are interested with this viṣaya, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā, they cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious, parataḥ, by instruction of spiritual master or experienced person, or by themselves. Themselves, they cannot. Even by instruction by the spiritual master or higher authorities. Parataḥ. Svataḥ, personally, or by others' instruction, matir na kṛṣṇe, they cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Mitho 'bhipadyeta. Mithaḥ, or by conference, consulting, making a meeting, "What is the problem of life?" They cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why? Gṛha-vratānām. So long they have got this determination, "We shall be happy in this material world," they cannot take... Gṛha-vratānām. Gṛha means home and gṛha means this body also. Those who are trying to be happy within this body, material world, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Why they cannot? Adānta-gobhiḥ: their senses are so uncontrolled. Therefore they must undergo the process of punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, the same viṣaya: eating, sleeping, mating. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya." Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This you will get even if you become cat and dog. But in the cat and dogs, I will not get this opportunity, how to get out of this material existence. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. These are the instructions of Prahlāda.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: We are all living entities. These are different types of bodies. So we have to accept some body. Similarly, he has to accept some body. So he may accept my body, I may accept his body. This apartment change. I may go to this apartment, he may go to another apartment. But there are so many apartments, gṛha. Therefore it is called gṛhamedhī. If you say, "No, no, I am not going to accept that apartment." "No, no, it is not your judgement." Daiva-netreṇa. "What money you have got, sir, to occupy?" "I have no money." "All right, then go this apartment." You must accept. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work it will be ascertained what kind of apartment you will get. It is not upon your decision. There are so many, many rascals. They think that after getting human body, he is never degraded. The theosophists think like that. That is very palatable. (laughing) But nature will force him to accept the body of a cat and dog. That is not your decision. Daiva-netreṇa, the superior decision. Just in office, you get promotion or degradation. That is not your decision. That is the decision of the higher directors. You cannot say that "No, no, I am not going to accept this post." No. You have to accept. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22).

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Piling of bricks and stones? Heaps of stones and bricks? That is emblem of civilization? They have seen. In Rome they have seen. They also piled like that. Now they have gone. Where they have gone? Why they left? Why they were obliged to leave? That nobody is questioning. And if he has got a different body, if he is living in that house as cats and dogs and rats and ants, then what benefit he has derived? There is possibility. If you have got an attraction for the body, for your house, but you are not going to get a human body, then you'll have to take your birth in that place, as tree, as plant, as live as rat or cat or ant. You have to live. Nature will give you advantage. But you must get the body according to your karma. That you cannot violate. Where is this science discussed? As soon as we shall speak gentleman like them, they will say, "I have got meeting."

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Especially in the western countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the people do not like to think that they are controlled or that they are...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. He is controlled in every step, and he is thinking... Therefore rascals. In spite of this big, big house, nice road and good car, they are rascals. But he thinks falsely. He thinks that he is independent; He will not die. Then why does he think like that, like a foolish man? As soon as māyā kicks on his face, he will die. That's all. Immediately. "I have got some business, sir." "No, no, you must die immediately." And still, he thinks that he is not controlled. What is this nonsense? We shall go that side? That is knowledge, that "In spite of my all so-called advancement of civilization, I am controlled." That is knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Then he should think how to get out of it. That is intelligence. And if, like cats and dogs, he thinks that "I am not controlled," then he is no better than cats and dogs. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). By prakṛti, by nature, he is pulled by the ears, "Come here!" "Yes, sir." "Come there!" "Yes, sir." And he is thinking, not controlled. As soon as he eats little more than he requires, "You must starve three days!" And he is not controlled. Just see. How much foolishness. And they are getting Nobel Prize. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God. In that way we can save ourself from the anxiety. Otherwise it is not possible. Because a God-conscious man, he knows that "I'll die. Everyone will die; I'll also die." But his concern is: "At the time of death, I shall remember Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Then his life is successful. Death we cannot avoid. There must be. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. But the question is how I shall give up this body. The cats, dogs, they also give up their body, and I'll also have to give up my body. But shall I give up the body like cats and dogs, or as human being? That is the process. Therefore one should, a human being should prepare himself how to give up this body. That is humanity. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.

Prabhupāda: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Kṛṣṇa says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Kṛṣṇa's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Kṛṣṇa. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Either you follow all the nine principles or eight or six or seven, at least one, then you become perfect. That is our preaching. Just like Akrūra, the example is given. Akrūra got perfection simply by offering prayers. So I see when the Christian go to the church, in India I have seen, in Bombay especially, they kneel down and offer prayer. That's very good. We do not say that this is not approved. This is also approved. What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? This is also prayer. Hare Kṛṣṇa, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is prayer. Repeatedly praying, "My Lord, the energy of Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Just like you go to a mercantile firm with application, "Please give me some service. Give me some service," the same thing, appealing to God and His energy, "Please engage me in your service." So that is vandana. So vandana, and Christian also they pray, "O God, give us our daily bread." So this is also good, but it is material, asking something for material satisfaction. And here, Hare Kṛṣṇa, asking something for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, "Engage me is Your service," little advanced because God is supplying bread to everyone, even to the cats and dogs.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6).

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: If they don't kill the cow, then they will have even more meat, because then the cow will have more time to reproduce, more calves. If they don't kill the cow right away.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: There'll be even more cows.

Prabhupāda: More cows. Yes. They'll have more cows. Simply we request that "Don't..." You propagate this. "Don't kill, don't maintain the slaughterhouse." It's very sinful. It has got very awkward reaction on the society. Stop this slaughterhouse. We don't say that you stop eating meat. You eat meat, but don't take it from slaughterhouse. Or don't by killing. Simply wait, and you'll get the... How long the cow will live? Their maximum age is twenty years. So not that you have to wait for twenty years. There are many cows, eighteen years, sixteen years or ten years. So wait for that much time. Then you regularly get dead cows and eat. What is the wrong? You make this propaganda. You may, for few years, may not get. By that time, you can eat some dogs and cats. (laughter) Yes. The Koreans, they are using dogs. Where is the difference between you and the Korean? You can eat also dogs for the time being.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. The man who created, he's kicked out. "Get out!" What did he do? "I have created this thing. I must enjoy." Why he's kicked out? Why?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Because it is actually not his property.

Prabhupāda: What is the answer? Why you are kicked out? Answer somebody.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's just like this body.

Bhagavān: He's not the real proprietor.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: The materialist sees himself acting independent of God.

Prabhupāda: How he's independent of God? Napoleon wanted to finish that arch, and he was kicked out. How he's independent of God. Such a big person, strong person, he wanted to finish, but he was not allowed to finish. Then how he thinks that he's independent. That is foolishness, that I can be kicked out at any moment, and still he's thinking "I am independent." What is the answer? Why he was kicked out? He was a very powerful man, and why he was kicked out? "No, you cannot finish. You go, get out immediately." Then? Where is his independence. He was simply falsely puffed-up independent. And now, after being kicked out, if he has taken the body of a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The nature is so strong and the laws are so stringent. We are not independent. If you touch fire, fire is one of the elements, it will burn your finger. However powerful you may be, you cannot stop it. Then where is your independence?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: His mind is being... His mental expression is Kṛṣṇa. He's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma. We have got some propensity to create. Just like this beautiful place. We have got creative energy. Therefore it is advised that nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Make it for Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in India, they have also created big, big temples, four flight, but for Kṛṣṇa. Then the energy spent for creating this park, in relationship with Kṛṣṇa will be utilized as service to Kṛṣṇa. And if it simply meant for sense gratification, then you are under the laws of nature, contaminated. Just like if a man is very powerful, he's creating this park, but he is contaminated with some infection, he, will he not suffer?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He must suffer.

Prabhupāda: Does it mean that because he has created this park, therefore contamination will not act upon him? Is it a fact? It must act. So after creating all these things, if you contaminate some infectious modes of material nature, then you have to accept the body of cats and dogs. Then what is your benefit? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Kāraṇam, the reason for high and low grade birth is due to contamination with the modes of material nature. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says the practice of zazen harmonize the self in this cosmic force.

Bhagavān: Does that harmony means to merge?

Prabhupāda: Now let me explain. Suppose the material elements are there. Somehow or other, combined together they have become this body. Is it not? Now, this body, when I am dead body, automatically it again becomes dispersed to the different elements. So this is taking place for even cats and dogs. Then what is the value of my meditation? (French)

Yogeśvara: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you've defeated him. He doesn't really have an answer.

Pṛthu Putra: He says so then I am practicing like a cat and dog, but the deep goal...

Prabhupāda: But I mean to say what result you will get more than the cats and dogs?

Karandhara: Why practice? (French)

Bhagavān: What happens to the cat and the dog in the end?

Karandhara: Actually, Zen philosophy, they accept reincarnation, that the self keeps on taking bodies until he becomes selfless, and it's only in the human form that he can develop that selflessness.

Prabhupāda: Then they have to accept good work and bad work.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: No, ask him is death always the solution? If we're in ignorance or we're suffering, when I die, even if I don't attain Zen within this life, when I die, does that solve all the problems? (French)

Prabhupāda: That I said already. The cats and dogs, they are also having the same result without any Zen philosophy. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says death is a part of life. The question is not to die or not to die. He says the question is not to know we are going to get salvation by going to die or not. The important is just life, and the death is part of life. Here and now, what's happening here, in the instant, here, now, that's important for him.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Pṛthu Putra: What is important for him is here and now what he's doing in the instant. He says death is just part of life.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Pṛthu: She thinks that everyone will get after death this peace.

Prabhupāda: The cats and dogs, everyone? The same? (German)

Pṛthu: (break) ...different from cats and dogs in as much as he has something spiritual in himself, and she says if this spiritual is more emotions and so on.

Prabhupāda: So what is that difference? (German)

Pṛthu: Cats and dogs are animals, and they don't have, animals, they don't have any spiritual life. They live more after instincts.

Prabhupāda: So if the man and animal is working for the same purpose... Just like man is eating, and the animal is also eating. A man is sleeping, and the animal is also sleeping. The man is also having sexual intercourse, and the animal also doing that. And man is also fearful of his enemy, and the animal also fearful of enemies. So if the platform of activities are the same, why the difference is there? (break)

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Therefore misuse of intelligence will cause his suffering. Now suppose a tiger kills an animal, and a man kills thousands of animals in a day in the slaughterhouse. Is he not sinful? (German)

Pṛthu: She says that this is the evil in mankind.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the conclusion is that the so-called intelligent man is simply misusing his intelligence. So when he misuses his intelligence he is less than the cats and dogs. Yes. (German) And then, after death, how he'll be in peace? (German) (break)

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Mādhavānanda: He is in illusion.

Prabhupāda: Illusion. You are seeing an illusion? Some tiger is coming. You are crying, "Save me, save me." It is illusion. This body is also illusion. But you are affected. That means you are experiencing. How you can say that you are not perceiving? And when in dream you see your beloved or woman and man, there is no, nothing such thing, but still, there is discharge. Why? Why you are not perceiving? How you can say that you are not perceiving. It is perceiving. What is the answer? You are perceiving every night...

Satsvarūpa: Yes, in dreams.

Prabhupāda: ...that you leave this body, you accept another body and do something else which you see. If that is illusion, then this is also illusion. Because in daytime you forget that night activities, and at night you forget the day activities. So this is also illusion. So therefore you are in illusion. That's a fact, day and night, day and night. That is called māyā. This is also māyā. But they have accepted this as fact. The gross illusion they have taken as fact. This is also illusion. You are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "German." What is that? By one kick of nature you are out, the cat and dog. This is also illusion. What is not illusion?

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Religious principles means married life, otherwise cats and dogs. What is this? If everyone has without any limitation sex life, then what is the difference between cats and dogs? Religion means you are not cats and dogs because religion is in the human society, not in the cats and dogs' society.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa—this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that's all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting, there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue, we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don't eat meat, egg, fish, no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking, no gambling, no illicit sex and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, "Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo, or Christo, Christo." Is there any objection?

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: So the God, He is also with me always as friend. So one, it is said in the Upaniṣad, there are two birds in one tree. The two birds means I, individual soul, and God, the Supreme Soul. The individual soul is limited within this body. And God is everywhere, in every body, in every atomic particle, everywhere. Because I am individual soul, I can understand my bodily pains and pleasure. But I cannot understand your bodily pains and pleasure. But God, being all-pervading, He can understand my pains and pleasure, He can understand your pains and pleasure, He can understand cats' and dogs' pains and..., everyone. This is the difference between me and God. Sometimes they mistake, because God is also within this body, I am also within this body, therefore they think that there is no other individual soul than God, therefore I am God. So if I am God, then you are also God. And if there is more than one God, there is not God. God is one. There cannot be two. So if I think I am God, then everyone is also God, so God becomes plural, so there is not God. God is one. Therefore, God is great, we are small. In quality we are one. Just like the president and the citizen, as man they are one. But in power, the citizen and the president, they are different. So these things can be understood if one is sober and very great thinker: they can understand that God is situated with me, He can help me also.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Yogeśvara (translating): He says because we have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no God consciousness, therefore we are responsible for not having been able to save them.

Prabhupāda: That is false. That I am saying. This is false responsibility. Actually you cannot become responsible. You have no power. Everyone is under the laws of nature. Just like some birds flying in the sky. The father, mother, and children, but nobody is responsible for anyone. When there is danger in the sky, you cannot give protection. Suppose one bird is hit, he is falling. The father, mother, and others, they cannot give any protection. He has to become responsible for himself. Just like the aeroplane. When the one plane is in danger, no other plane come and help it. Even if you see that the other plane is flying a few yards and if it is in fire, you cannot help. There is one nice story that one hunter was hunting birds and he spread his network. So when the children of the parent birds, they become victimized by the network. So when the parents came, they saw, "Oh, my children have been caught up by the net of the hunter." So mother became very overwhelmed. She went to rescue them and she also become victimized. Then the father was intelligent, he saw that "My children, my wife, they all have been victimized, and if I foolishly go to save them, then I will be also victimized. Let me go this way." Take sannyāsa and go. No responsibility. It is not possible when everyone is captured by the laws of nature. How you can help and what is your responsibility? So this is called māyā. The children are thinking that "My father and mother will give me protection," and the father and mother is thinking that "There is my responsibility." This is called māyā. With this false responsibility, they are packed up in a home. But when death comes, nobody can help. Nobody. This is happening every day, every moment, and still we are falsely thinking I am responsible. So what is the value of your responsibility? If you cannot give protection, then what is the value of your responsibility? There is no responsibility. The only responsibility is that I have got this human form of life. Even in this life I do not realize God, then I remain cats and dogs, that's all. This is the only responsibility. If you miss this opportunity, then I do not know what I am going to become in my next life. So gaining or losing this opportunity, that is my responsibility. If I am not responsible... (break)

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): "Without envy"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: New Dvārakā is leading the society in child production.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. But make them devotees. That is the real father and mother, who begets children and make him devotee. That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs. A Tulasī dāsa, he has written one poetry that "A son and the urine comes from the same way." Son... Son means it is born out of the semina. That also comes through the genital, and the urine also comes through the genital. So he is giving this example that "Putra and Mutra..." Mutra, means urine, and putra means son, comes from the same passage. So if the son is a devotee, then he's putra; otherwise he's mutra. (laughter) Otherwise he's urine. Very nice. Yes. Putra and mutra come from the same channel. If he's a devotee, then he's putra, otherwise he's mutra. (break)

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: How can it be that we're advancing if we can become a dog in the next life, is that it, or something inferior? Where is the question of progress?

Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Just like there is the bench, you can sit down on the ground, and to sit down little comfortably you manufacture the bench. So for sitting down, you can utilize the ground, but you are unnecessarily wasting your time and manufacturing... This is industry. (break) ...philosophy is that we have to save time for becoming fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our necessity. And if we divert our energy for sitting down comfortably, then time is wasted. That... There is natural mattress, and there is a natural pillow, so why should you manufacture pillow and mattress? This is Sukadeva Gosvāmī. And there is natural food, fruits. So... And if you want still nice home, go to the cave. It is already made. Why should you waste your time? This is the Bhāgavata philosophy. But they are wasting time simply how to live in nice apartment, how to manufacture nice mattress, pillow. This is... So the whole philosophy is: save your time and make your life perfect within this short duration of life which you have obtained in this human form of life. Durlabhaṁ manusaṁ janma. It is very rarely you have got. Utilize it. And if you don't utilize, if you waste your time in these bodily comforts and next life you become a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? They do not understand this.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

So if we miss this opportunity of human life, to revive our relationship with God, and next life I become something else, then how much great loss it is, just try to understand. This human form of body is obtained after many, many millions of years' struggle. So this is also temporary, as the cats' and dogs' body, they are also temporary. But although it is temporary, it is arthadam. You can achieve the real purpose of life. That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (1): But Swamiji, while the family norm here in the western countries is 2.3 children per couple, we still have a family norm of about six children per family. You know I think there are a lot of cultural factors that are...

Prabhupāda: No, that shastric injunction is, that is spiritual restraint. Therefore one should train himself when to have sex life or when to become father, when not to become. That education... Not to become like animal, dogs and cats, whenever there is sex desire, we must have. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Find out this, dharmāviruddhaḥ.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Reporter: Swamiji, I have one other question for you, please. By definition, it seems to me anyway, and I think to other observers, and sympathetic observers at that, that you have asked your spiritual children to leave the outer world in the West and to go deep within the heart of ISKCON, within your heart and the heart of the Supreme, to accomplish what you've set as their goal. What about outer service to humanity in this incarnation?

Prabhupāda: This is the best humanity's service. They were all fools and rascals and we educated them for spiritual understanding. The material... If I think "I am this body," then I am no better than cat and dog. That is going on. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Only this bodily relationship. But suppose you have come to me, can I ask you whether you are body or something else?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: You have to accept one of them. That is according to your quality.

Reporter: Qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: The quality of my life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you infect a certain type of disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, there are three qualities of the material nature. So as you associate with that quality, you get a similar body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). How one is getting better life, one is getting worse life, the reason is associating, infecting the different types of modes of nature. That education we have no... There is no such education, what kind of association we should make so that we can better life or we can go back to home, back to God. There is no such education. They are living like cats and dogs and going to be cats and dogs.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: Do I understand that the children in your school in Texas, that they're brought up in what you consider spiritual consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Reporter: Will they be virtually living outside...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: "So you can go to the higher planetary system. Prepare yourself in that way. You can go to the pitṛloka. You can remain within this world. And you can come to Me also." So if I have to prepare myself for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? Why unnecessarily go to the other planets or to the dogs and cats? Prepare in such a way that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). No more material body. You go back to home, back... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the best. After all, you have to prepare yourself for the next body. So why not prepare yourself for the next body as good as Kṛṣṇa's? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). It is very intelligent movement. Any intelligent man should take it very seriously. If I have to prepare for my next life, why not prepare next life—just we are talking with you, you can go and talk with Kṛṣṇa. You can dance with Kṛṣṇa. You can eat with Kṛṣṇa. You can play with Kṛṣṇa. If there is such possibility, why should we waste our time in different way? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, we are going to die. And tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You have to accept another body, just you have already accepted. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. We have accepted a different body. I was a child. Now I have got different body. So we are accepting different body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, you accept another body after death. Now what that body should be, everything is there.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Indian man (4): What Kṛṣṇa stands and what Kṛṣṇa means in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you...?

Indian man (4): Yes. When we say we start preaching, so first one... somebody has to know himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (4): Then he can come forward for preaching.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you know yourself? Why you are in darkness? Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). In this body there is the occupier of the body. So if you think yourself that you are this body, that is your wrong. You try to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." That's the fact. So this human life is meant for that purpose. So why should you not do it? Why should you keep yourself in darkness? That is very risky. If I keep myself in the darkness like cats and dogs, that "I am this body," then my life is very risky. By nature's way we are given this opportunity, human form of life.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is para-upakāra. The whole world is in darkness without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So enlighten them, para-upakāra. Human life is for para-upakāra; it is not animal life. To do good to others. Cats and dogs, they are selfish. But human life should be for para-upakāra. So this is the biggest para-upakāra movement. And it is very easy to take part in it. You don't require to be very expert. You... Everything is there. You simply carry the message like peon. Kṛṣṇa says this; kindly follow; that's all. We don't say that "I say this. I have manufactured this. I have become very big man, God." We don't say nonsense. It is all nonsense. Simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa; then you are perfect. In the Western countries they are little fond of yoga. So the yoga system is also spoken by Kṛṣṇa in the Sixth Chapter. But the conclusion is, when Arjuna refused, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me. This meditation, this praṇāyāma and dhyāna, dhāraṇā, yama, niyama, dhyāna, it is not possible for me. I am a politician. I have no time either"—he said frankly—then Kṛṣṇa satisfied him that "You are already the best of the yogis."

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man: Are human beings the only creations that can have Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. The cats and dogs cannot be trained up. But a human being can be trained up. Especially the Āryans, they can be trained up. They are advanced.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Unnecessary attachment. Next life he may be not even a human being. The skyscraper building he is doing now with so great labor and enthusiasm, and next life he may be a cat or rat in that building. How can you stop it? The nature's law will act. If you have behaved like cats and dogs and you have attachment for the building, then nature will, "All right, you become a cat and dog according to karma and you remain in this building." (end)

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) (break) Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do—that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.

Girl: Why?

Prabhupāda: Because rascal fools, they have no knowledge, just like cats and dogs, animals. Do you admit this?

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just wait one... (break) ...the cat's and dog's body. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand that, that life is beyond this body. But in the human form of life one can understand. He has got such consciousness. So by nature's law, by evolution, we come to the human form of body to understand this. And if we do not utilize this knowledge for understanding our real identity, then we remain cats and dogs, and we become again cats and dogs. By nature's law, I have been given this chance. If I do not utilize it properly, then again I become what I was before.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Who wants happiness? I want protect this body—why? Because I am within this body. And if I go away from this body, who seeks for the happiness of this body? This common reason, they have no sense. Why I am seeking happiness? I am covering this body because the body may not be affected by cold. Then why I am seeking happiness of the body from cold and heat? Because I am within the... If I go away from the within the body, then there is no more seeking after happiness. Either you throw it on the street or it is in extreme cold or extreme heat, it doesn't matter. Then who is seeking happiness? That they do not know. For whom you are so busy for happiness? That they do not know. Just like cats and dogs.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: We are thinking "This is all good. What is the use of God and going back to home, back to Godhead?" They do not take it very seriously. Although we give all information that "You'll haven't, you haven't got to work there. You'll get everything. Your life is eternal and blissful, and full of knowledge," they are not interested. Plugged.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Plugged.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Plugged ear, er, ears, yes. "You go on speaking, but I have plugged my ear." (laughter)

Trivikrama: "Chant, chant, chant."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Can't, can't, can't." That's it. (laughter) This is going on. The best intelligence is that "We are hearing so much about the spiritual world; there is so much happiness. Why not try one life? Like cats and dogs, I have tried so many lives. Why not sacrifice one life? Where is the loss there?" But no, they are so many, fallen, they'll not accept.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...seeking the necessities of the body, but kāṣṭān, with great labor. This is civilization. Kāṣṭān karma. The ultimate end is sense gratification, which the dogs and hogs also enjoy without any hard labor, and they think that after working very, very hard, twenty-four hours, and driving the motorcars in three hundred miles speed, this is civilization. The end is the same—sex, that's all, which the cats and dogs enjoy in the street. And they have made this civilization, you see. Working very hard, and enjoy the sex. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee: ...citizens in the state are punished by the government by being put into the prison house and that similarly, in this human form of life, if we are irresponsible, then we are punished by God by birth and death. So what about the man who is responsible for his family and executes his duty ni...

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Cats and dogs have also responsible for the family. What is credit for him?

Devotee: Well, what actually is responsibility?

Prabhupāda: No, no. The dog also allows the nipple to be sucked by the cubs. That is family maintenance. So what credit do you get by family maintenance? Why do you specially claim any benefit by maintain...? That is being done by the cats and dogs. Do you think that the animals do not take care of their children? Then if you take, then what is the difference between him and yourself? You are also the cats and dogs. Your main business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you forget that—you remain cats and dogs—then you'll become again cats and dogs. Punar muṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." The mouse was given the chance to elevate gradually to a tiger, and when he became tiger, he wanted to devour the saintly person. And he said, "All right, again you become mouse." That is also... You are given the chance of self-realization. If you do not do it, then again become cats and dogs, maintain your family.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You are so senseless that you do not understand that you are suffering. That is required, just like cats and dogs, they are suffering, they cannot understand. Your position is like that. So our point is that you are suffering, but if you become obedient to God, you will not suffer, that is our propaganda. But you are so fool, rascal, that you do not know that you are suffering. And still you are denying. God is the master, so if you do something wrong, you must suffer. That you are suffering. And we are preaching, that don't do wrong, be very nice, you will not suffer. This is our propaganda.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: If the operator of the powerhouse, he is operating and running the powerhouse, but it's not really necessary that we go and see him. We can simply enjoy the facilities offered by the powerhouse.

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum—he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull—just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life—these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: You were saying that inquisitiveness is the...

Prabhupāda: That is human life. That inquisitiveness cannot be found in cats and dogs. That is the difference between cats and dogs and human being. Human being, unless he becomes inquisitive for what is the ultimate source, he is not human being. All these people, 99.9 per cent people, they are not inquisitive. They are searching after some happiness, but they are not inquisitive what is the source of happiness. They are being baffled in the material world. They have, for happiness they have discovered this horseless carriage and so many things, but there is so much unhappiness also when the motor car is crashed between two and life is lost. They are not inquisitive that we have invented this machine for happiness, why this disaster? That intelligence is not. That is it. They are simply going on searching after, but when we say, "No, not in this way, come this way and you'll get happiness," They'll not. That is (inaudible).

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the material scientists are so inquisitive, yet they are leading lives like cats and dogs, how can they come to...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are wrongly directed. You are inquiring me, "Sir I want to such and such place." If that place is this way, if I say you go this way. You go this way. Then you'll be baffled, and you'll be unhappy. Wrong direction.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The Vedas are there for understanding by the human society. And if he lives like a cat and dog, then he spoils his life. We should take advantage of the Vedic knowledge and make our life successful. This is real philosophy.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Kim: One more question. What do you think of the use of drugs as an aid?

Prabhupāda: Drugs? That is another side of madness. Just like, human being, after the evolution of 8 million forms of bodies, he comes to human body to understand philosophy, these Vedas. So instead of utilizing life for that purpose, he wants to become again like the cats and dogs, and therefore he takes drugs. He is already cat and dog. He's no better than cats and dogs, because he has no interest in this knowledge. He was meant for this knowledge but he remains like cats and dogs, therefore he is not satisfied, therefore he takes drugs to forget himself. This is the philosophy of drugs. He was meant for becoming satisfied by taking this knowledge. He does not get the chance. Nobody leads him to this knowledge. He remains like cats and dogs, but as a human being if he lives like cats and dogs, he'll never be happy. Because there is no happiness, therefore he takes drugs, to forget. This is the drug philosophy. Drug philosophy means to forget one's present suffering. He must suffer, because his consciousness is developed. He must take this Vedic knowledge, but he does not take. Therefore he is dissatisfied, and to counteract the dissatisfaction he takes drugs. This is drug philosophy.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: She says doesn't the suffering and pain lead people towards God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the law, but we are so dull-headed that we do not enquire. That is my statement, that you should enquire "Who is forcing these things?" Then there is enquiry of God. First of all we must be... Just like a dog. He cannot understand. He's under chain. He's leading a life most dependent. And he is jolly. He is jumping here and there. That is dog's life. If the master kills him, he cannot do anything. But he is very jolly. He is jumping. That is dog's life. But not human life. Human life is that I am dependent in every step, still I am declaring independent. What is this nonsense? This enquiry should be there. He is dependent in every step, exactly like the cats and dogs, but he is claiming, "I am independent."

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But there are so many wonderful things taking place, brain transplants, and so many other things.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are not civilized so long you are eating meat. You are dogs and cats and tigers, that's all. The tiger may be a very strong animal, but it is not to be called that he is civilized. Nobody will say the tiger is civilized.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They used to think that because there is overpopulation we will go to another planet and then begin living there.

Prabhupāda: No question of overpopulation. There are so many land. You do not know how to live. There is no question of overpopulation. You want to live like cats and dogs. Therefore you fight; there is scarcity. If you live properly, there is no question of scarcity. (break) Otherwise it is perfect. Everything is perfect. There is no question of inconvenience. You live according to the direction of Bhagavad-gītā; there is no question of scarcity, inconvenience, overpopulation. Everything is made.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The students, they are going to school, college, and they are talking of sex. Where is tapasya? How it is possible? So therefore bhakti-yoga is the only way of spiritual improvement in this age—all age, especially in this age. No other method will help you-yoga, karma, jñāna, nothing. Bhakti-yoga is always strong, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. Therefore it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva, especially. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the simplest. But people do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They are so much in ignorance. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is ultimate goal. Simply like cats and dogs. The dog jumps over with four legs, and if a man can jump over with four wheels, then that is advance. Just see. They think, "Now we are advanced. We have got four-wheel car to jump over. And the dog is jumping with legs. Therefore this is advanced." They do not know this is also the same dog's business. They do not know it. (break) ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same. The skylark, what is called? Skylark? These birds?

Devotee (1): Oh, the seagulls. Seagull.

Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of civilization? Where they have gone by crossing here?

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So nobody feels bad, even the cats and dogs. That does not mean there is no suffering. Cats and dogs... Just like in this car, the gentleman, his wife, and the dog. The dog is feeling more happy.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is Vedānta philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, by evolutionary process, we have come to the human form of life, and it is meant for asking, "What is my constitutional position? Am I this body, or I am something else?" The dogs, he cannot put this inquiry. A dog, he thinks that he is dog, that's all. He is jumping, he is barking, and eating, sleeping, and having sex. That's all. If I ask one dog, "Please sit down. Hear Bhagavad-gītā," it is not possible. But you are human being, if I ask you, "Mr. such and such, sit down, hear from the Bhagavad-gītā," you can do that. First of all we must know the difference between dog and me. The dog is incapable to understand Bhagavad-gītā. But human being... Just like we are selling this book in the Western countries, many millions of copies, because they are human being. We are not selling among the cats and dogs.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is taking care. Therefore they are not in jñānam, knowledge. They are in ignorance just like cats and dogs. This is called jñānam. And the vijñānam. Vijñānam means practical application of the knowledge. That is called vijñānam, science. Scientific knowledge there is. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to believe in the authority. That is called āstikyam. Just like we are speaking about this Bhagavad-gītā because it is spoken by the most supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa. To believe in the authority. You also believe in authority. But ultimately, in this way, if we acquire this qualification, then we become first-class man. So anyone can be trained up. Just like these boys. They were fourth class, fifth class. And now they are trained up to become first-class men. Just like anyone can become geographer, anyone can become engineer by proper training.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...they are after zeros. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sa..., śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitam means zero. (break) Advancement of civilization is zero. If you add many thousands of zero, does the value increases?

Amogha: No.

Prabhupāda: It remains zero.

Amogha: Big zero.

Prabhupāda: There must be one. Then it will increase the value. That one, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will make this material civilization hundred times important. And without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all zeros. (break) ...next life, supposing hypothetically I am going to be a dog, then what is this civilization? But that you cannot say, "No, I am not going to be dog," because you do not know. You are under the, completely under the grip of material nature. And there are cats and dogs. How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You will get another body. So how you can say that "No, I am not going to be a dog"? You cannot say; you are not independent. You cannot make your choice. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work, it will be decided by higher authorities. Then how you can say, "No, no, I am not... There is no life, there is no..." It is all nonsense. Therefore without this knowledge, all this material opulence, it is all zero. It may be some fact for fifty or sixty years, but the world is not for fifty or sixty years, for millions and millions of years. (end)

Talk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...if people do not like, that is another thing. What is the wrong if I say, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."? If you don't chant, that is your choice. There is no difficulty. If you agree that "Swamiji asking me. We'll chant," you can chant. But if you don't do it, that is your business. The task it not difficult. Task is very easy. Even a child can do it. But if you are stubborn, "No, no, I will not do it," then what can be done? (?) Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro... You know this song, huh? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says... You have got this cassette? Jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole.

Devotee (1): I may have it in my briefcase. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So He is canvassing, "Now get up. How you are remaining in ignorance still? You have got this human form of body; still, you remain as cats and dogs. Why is that? This is spell of māyā. You get up." "No, I am very much... I cannot break out of this. Too much I am afflicted." Then he says, "I have got medicine." Enechi auṣadhi. "I have got the medicine. You take it." Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro lāgi', hari-nāma mahā-mantra lao tumi māgi'. "You take it from Me, hari-nāma mahā-mantra." So this is our mission. We have got the medicine to awake the people from this ignorance. He doesn't know anything. He is busy only with his fifty years. Nowadays less still, we live, such rascaldom we are. "We have got the medicine. Now you take it." This is our canvassing, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. If you don't agree, that is your business. That is your misfortune. The disease is there, and the remedy is also there. So we offer you the remedy free of charges, and if you don't take it, then it should be understood that you are so misfortunate, unfortunate.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: The industrialists and technologists say that they will keep using and using and using, and when they run out they will invent something else to take the place. When they run out of oil then they will use sun energy or some other energy. And whenever they say that they're running out of something, they say, "Oh, we'll invent something, and we'll do something to arrange it."

Prabhupāda: Why they are thinking of the future? And they do not think of themself that whether he was going to be a cat and dog. He is thinking of industrial resources future and not for himself.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: He's thinking that in a few hundred years the resources will be used up. He doesn't... He's thinking the resources will be used up.

Prabhupāda: But before that, you will be finished, so why you are anxious?

Paramahaṁsa: He's worrying about the civilization.

Prabhupāda: Civilization, but you will be finished. You will not take part in the civilization. You have no belief in the next birth. So why you are thinking like that? You will be finished, that's all. Why you are worried? Suppose I have come here for three weeks. If I simply think, "What will happen hundred years after I am in Australia?" What is my business? I will go away by three weeks. Why shall I bring so much thoughts about "What will happen, Australia, hundred years after"? You are going to be cats and dogs or something, or grass or anything else. But you will be finished. Then why you are anxious for Australia?

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Hm. The world is full of rascals and fourth-class men. That is our verdict, Kṛṣṇa's verdict. A human being does not know God, he's no better than dog. He is dog. Who knows God? There are so many scientists, philosophers, now everywhere. And they are discussing on sex philosophy, homosex philosophy, Darwin's theory. All third class, fourth class, they are controlling. Now they are gradually coming to chaotic condition, and their problems, engage so many big, big officials how to solve. Oh, why you created problem, first of all? You third-class, fourth-class men, you have created problem, and now we are trying to make solution—another problem. And because you are the same fourth-class men, how you can make a solution? You have created the problems. The man who creates problems, can he make solution? So you are the same fourth-class man, how you can make a solution? Bring first-class man. But there are no first-class men. All rogues and rascals. Things are becoming bad to worse, and still they'll claim, "We are first class."

Amogha: They are all rascals, so the best rascal they say he is first-class. First-class rascal.

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining, big animal and small animal. Cats and dogs praising one lion.

Amogha: Hm.

Prabhupāda: A lion is also an animal. But they are thinking, "Oh, one lion." But we are thinking that it is also animal. The cats and dogs, they are thinking, "Oh, lion is so big, so powerful." But human being is thinking this is also an animal, big animal. Is it not? (laughs) Tell them. Cats and dogs may praise some another animal, tiger and... But are the tigers other than animal? He is also animal.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They don't criticize long hairs, but shaven-headed. Just see. If you don't criticize the long hairs, why should criticize the shaven-headed? But they criticize us. So regularly they are going out?

Madhudviṣa: Saṅkīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Madhudviṣa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is wanted. Live here very nicely and go back to home, back to Godhead. Why should you die like cats and dogs? Die like a human being and be freed from all these material anxieties. But their determination is that they must live in this hellish condition. They do not believe in the next life. If they believe in the next life, then it becomes horrible. They want to avoid this question. "No, no there is no life. Enjoy to the best capacity now." Enjoy. We do not say that don't enjoy, but enjoy so that you may not be implicated. There is no harm having big house, comfortable life, but keep Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? Hm? Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, if they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in these big, big skyscraper buildings, what is their loss?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Hari-śauri: There are so many altruistic movements, but actually there is no peace coming about.

Prabhupāda: It is not effective. Just like the government spending to stop drug habit, millions of dollars, no use, but as soon as they come to us, immediately they give up. But still, the rascal will not pay the money to us. (laughter) We are doing so much benefit, but they will not pay. If you ask them money, "No, no, our money is not for religious purpose. For science. Our money is for science." Science means how, scientifically, you can kill cows. This is science. How, scientifically, you can become less than cats and dogs. This is their science. The cats and dogs also, they do not kill their children, but they are scientific advanced; the doctor advises, "Kill it."

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee 1: But the cats and the dogs, they are also happy.

Prabhupāda: And if you want to become cats and dogs and happy, you be. Don't worry. That's all. But we are worried: "Why shall I become cat and dog? We shall go back to home, live with Kṛṣṇa." That is our ambition. Your ambition is to become cat and dog. You become.

Australian devotee 6: They are happy with that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You become happy. But we are not happy. What is the idea here?

Amogha: They want it to grow straight up. It looks like it started to go sideways.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...human being who knows things that I explained this thing that by nature's process I have come to this human body. Now what is next progress? That is human being. And even still I remain cats and dog but they have no inquiry, then what is the use of getting this human body?

Australian devotee 4: Why, then, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is a person given a human body then, if they...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means better conscience. He can consider so many things. "Why I am dying? I do not want to die. Why there are so many miserable condition?" We are covering because there is miserable condition of this winter. I don't want to suffer from cold. Therefore I am covered. So this is struggle for existence. The human being can understand that why there is struggle? Why not I am happy naturally? This question must be there. Otherwise he is cat and dog. The dogs do not inquire all these things. Then if you have no such power to inquire and understand, then you are no better than dog. And if you are happy to remain cats and dogs, that is your business. But a real human being, he will never be happy. That is human being. Everyone is trying to improve his material condition. Therefore the motor car is going here and there, here and there. Why they are trying? Let them remain satisfied in any condition. The modern economic law is that create new necessities of life.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: It's often seen that an owner of a dog looks just like that particular dog. They look very much alike, and they have similar personalities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact because the subtle body is doggish and he is going to be a dog next life. Tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Because he is always thinking of his dog, always, therefore he is going to be a dog.

Bali-mardana: By association.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjayate kāmaḥ. The desire becomes according to association.

Ambarīṣa: Everybody that's walked by today has had a dog. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Oh, why you are laughing? (break) ...two without association of dog. They have developed that consciousness, dog consciousness. (break)

Bali-mardana: ...thinking when the dog has to pass stool 'cause then they have to take him outside. (break)

Prabhupāda: (break) ...the statistics, how many dogs are there in the United States?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, there are. There are more dogs than...

Prabhupāda: Than human being?

Bali-mardana: No, no.

Siddha-svarūpa: I think there might be.

Bali-mardana: There are many millions, though.

Siddha-svarūpa: Maybe dogs and cats combined. (break)

Bali-mardana: The people, they feed their dog and cat so much food that millions of human beings could be fed from the food. Because so much grains are required... They feed them meat, but so much grains are required to produce that food.

Siddha-svarūpa: More money is spent on food for dogs in the United States than for babies.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) In the recent food crisis in the United States, 18% of the people started eating dog food because there's so much... They use such high quality beef and based on so many grains and everything. And they use grains themselves. Milk products. (break) They're even learning how to eat dog food. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...dogs in the beach, you cannot walk without seeing dog. More footprints of the dogs than human being. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: ...actually give dogs more rights also, in a sense. For instance, if you... (break) ...and a human being, every time you walked, if there was a human being yelling at everyone who walked by and was going, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! You get away! Get away! Get away!" then soon the man would be arrested for being a nuisance or a threat to people. But a dog is allowed to do that. He can stay there and yell and yell at everybody... (break)

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: Some time back I was reading an article on an airplane, one of those airline news magazines, about the science of gerontology, the science of putting off death or stopping death. They say, "Within twenty-thirty years we will have stopped it. We will even reverse the process of old age. We'll become younger." That was their claim.

Prabhupāda: They can do it—that is credit. But what is this credit, that people are dying and you discover atom bomb to accelerate death very quickly? If they are thinking like that, then sanity is coming. At least, they are thinking like that, that "Why death should not be stopped?" That will be credit if they can do so, but at least this question, it comes. Then they become human being, not dogs. And so long this question does not come, they are cats and dogs. This is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the inquiry. Sanātana Gosvāmī when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu he first questioned this, ke āmi, keno more jape tāpa-traya: "I was minister. That's all right. But I do not know why I shall accept death. Therefore I have come to You." This is minister, intelligence, that "People praise me, I am minister, I am very learned scholar, but I do not know why I am under the tribulations of three-fold miseries, and what is my position." Ke āmi, keno more jape tapa-traya: "Who I am? I don't want all these things, why they are troubling me?" Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tai satya kori mani: "These fools and rascals, they call me, I am very learned scholar, and I also accept it, but I do not know why I am suffering." This is Sanātana Gosvāmī's question. So what they are doing? They are making research?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who are they? Very important men?

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Not just reading the books but there also must be chanting and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will turn your America as Vaikuṇṭha. And that is your duty, to save your countrymen. I think the America is... The people were pious in their past life. They have got this opulent position. Now they should use this opulent position. They have no poverty. They haven't got to work so hard, and they take advantage of this knowledge. Other countries, they are poor. They are busy how to earn their livelihood. But your country, because you are favored on account of your previous pious activities, you should utilize this position. People are embarrassed for improving their economic condition in other countries. Of course, if one is cultured, he is not embarrassed in any condition of life. But without Kṛṣṇa culture, poverty-stricken people, they are very much hampered. So you have no such problem. Therefore you can utilize your position, this opulent position, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As a learned scholar you should advocate this cause. Why should you waste your time in sense gratification? That is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs. Why this life? That is also... We have described in the Fifth Canto, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1).

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: In Īśopaniṣad you say, "The self-sufficient philosophy. That is Kṛṣṇa."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Also, should this college have men and woman or just men?

Prabhupāda: No, why? Everyone. We have no such discrimination. But not cats and dogs. (laughter) Human being. Never mind what he is.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is born śūdra, and by undergoing the reformation process, he becomes twice-born. The father is the spiritual master, and the mother is Vedic knowledge. First birth is ordinary father and mother. That even cats and dogs gets. Everyone gets father and mother. Without father and mother, there is no question of birth. That janma is śūdra janma. Then, when he gets second birth by the spiritual father, then he becomes a dvija, twice-born. Again birth. Then he is allowed to study the Vedic literatures. Vedo-pathad bhaved vipraḥ. And when, by studying, he understand the Brahman, then he becomes brāhmaṇa. This is the process. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And then, after becoming a brāhmaṇa, when he understands Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes Vaiṣṇava. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3).

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When the senators come for vote, you tell them, "First of all dismiss all these things. Then we shall give you vote. Otherwise no more vote." Then they will be also. And vote has become cheap. Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That example I was giving, that small animals and big animal. The lion is a big animal, and he is afraid of by the small animals, jackals, cats and dogs. So out of fear, they are giving vote. But giving vote to whom? To an animal. So how they can be happy? A small animal is giving vote to the big animal. But suppose a big animal, a lion, he is very powerful. Does it mean he is human being? He is animal. So the small animals may be afraid of that big animal, but the human being knows that he is animal. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Indian guest: Rabindranath Tagore and all these big people, they were not pure devotees, but...

Prabhupāda: They're big lions, that's all. And they are praised by the small cats and dogs. (laughter) (break) ...Rabindranath Tagore's Gitanjali he indirectly praises, "I love you," but he does not mention whom he loves. He does not know who is the lovable object. You have read his Gitanjali?

Indian guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is it not like...?

Indian guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tumi, "You are." Who is that tumi? That he does not know.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies. And if you say that "If you act like cats and dogs, you will become dog next life," they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" (laughter) This is education. He is prepared to become a dog. He does not know what is the distinction between dog and human being. He is seeking after the dog's facility that he can have sex on the street. He is thinking the dog life is advantageous. This is the position. Therefore Professor Judah has written me this letter, that "I am simply surprised how you have converted the drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." This is his words.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By taking lesson from professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. You have to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, willing. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take. Therefore it is the duty of the human being, how to control the mind, not act like cats and dogs. That is human being. He should be inquisitive, "Why this happening? Why this happening?" and he should take education. That is human life. And if he does not inquire, if he does not take education, then what is the difference between him and the dog? He remains a dog. He has got this opportunity of human life. He should take advantage of understanding what is what, not to keep himself in the dog status, simply eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending. That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12).

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...which is fact? The dreams and phases of different life while passing through, they are facts or I am fact? What is your answer? We are teaching that, you take care of the fact, not of the dreams. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are changing circumstances. The circumstances are not fact but the whole world is taking care of the circumstances not of the sheer fact. This is the defect of modern civilization. We are very much serious about the passing on circumstances, but we are not serious about the person who is going through the circumstances. This is the whole defect of modern civilization. And that is the beginning of real life. If we take care of the circumstances, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs, everyone. Where to find eatables, where to find sex, where to find shelter for sleeping, and how to defense—these circumstances are understood by the animals. There is no need of education. Just like this morning I pointed out. The bird is catching a small fish, "Fut!" He knows where to find out his eatable. And that you cannot do. You also eat fish, but you jump over and take a fish. You cannot do that. But he can do that. He is more expert than you. (guests chuckle) Yes. In the troubled water, he is flying. He can see a small fish and immediately pick it up. Can you do that? So he is more advanced in civilization. (laughter) He knows his techniques. He is greater scientist than you. You cannot do this.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (walking:) ...is we want to distribute books vigorously because general public, they have not yet understood what is the importance of this movement; neither they have any knowledge. The general public, maybe with some exception in India, they are simply like cats and dogs. They have no knowledge, that what is the purpose of this life (indistinct) and... Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā. That is stated. Pravṛtti means what we should accept, what kind of life we should accept and what kind of life we shall reject. This is their first ignorance. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na viduḥ āsurāḥ janā (BG 16.7). And what is the next line? Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8).

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: A temporary life for fifty years or sixty years, they are busy, making very, very, gorgeous arrangement. This is asuric civilization. He does not take it very seriously that "I am encaged in this material body. My first business is how to get out of it and remain in my spiritual body." They get one type of body, and, like cats and dogs, engage, how to keep that body in sense gratification. That's all. (break) ...spiritual education, that "I am spiritual, spirit soul. I am encaged in this body. I want freedom. That is my first business, how to become liberated." No, that question set aside. Now, for the time being, we are walking here, and if there is some misunderstanding, we fight, forgetting that we have come here for walking, say, for half an hour. And why we shall forget our real business? That intelligence is not there. (break)

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: (walking:) Thing is that people are working so hard day and night for these temporary years, and less than that laboring they can go to back to home, back to Godhead. Little labor. But they do not know. Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25), bhūtejyā yānti bhū..., mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Just to get a nice car, a nice wife, and a few children by working so hard, bhūtejya, and the same labor, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām, if he devotes for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. And what is wrong there? We have got so many Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. What is wrong there than these ordinary karmīs? Hmm? Are we unhappy? What do you think?

Brahmatīrtha: No, nice.

Prabhupāda: See? Just see the foolish people. They are working so hard for nothing. Everything will be finished after this death, and he will become a cat and dog or a tree. You see? (break) ...sometimes advocate the materialists.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Satsvarūpa: The psychologist says that the real responsibility is to enjoy sex life and that, in that way, we are...

Prabhupāda: But that hog also enjoys. Then what is the difference between you and hog? The hog enjoys unrestrictedly. The cats and dogs also enjoy. So what is the benefit of becoming human being, civilized man? That enjoyment is there in the hog's life in a better way. You have got some discrimination, "Here is my sister, here is my mother, here is my daughter," but there is no such distinction. You enjoy life and become a hog, and that is waiting for you, next life. There is no law of raping amongst the hogs and dogs. They can capture any female. But in the human society why there is restriction? So hogs and dogs are better enjoying sex life. You become hog and dog. Why civilized man?

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, first, second, third. So even śūdra family, he can learn also. So brahmacārī. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacārī. He is encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a brahmacārī. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable—the teacher sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet. The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: If I understand you then correctly, sir, you would say that the emphasis should be returned to the religious aspects.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Without religious aspect what is the difference between dog and man? Man can be turned to be a religious man, the dog cannot be. That is the difference between dog and man. So if you keep the human society to the status of dogs and cats, how you can expect peaceful society? If you bring one dozen of dogs and if you want to keep them peacefully, is it possible? So if we keep human society as dogs, then how you can expect peacefulness?

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Some of my questions might sound disrespectful. If they do it is only because I do not understand completely your religious beliefs, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not my religious belief. I am just giving you general description of religious life and animal life. The animal cannot be taken to the churches and teach something about God. It is not possible. But a human being can be. So if the human being is refused this facility, then you keep them as cats and dogs. And you cannot expect any peaceful condition of life in the society of cats and dogs. So therefore it is the duty of the authority, of the government, of the elderly person, father, guardian, to teach the subordinate how to become God conscious. Otherwise, there will be trouble because there is no difference between dogs and man in every respect. The dog eats, we eat. The dog sleeps, we sleep. The dog have sex, we have sex. The dog also tries to defend itself, we also try to defend ourself. These are common factors. The only difference is the dog cannot be instructed about his relation with God, but man can be instructed.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son." Then, in next life, Devakī got Kṛṣṇa as his child. So every father and mother should take this vow, that "Unless our children become first-class, we don't want children." This is ideal. What is the use of begetting cats and dogs? You must have first-class children. That requires tapasya. So at least we should follow the standard, how to raise our children to become first-class. There is no current? You can get on the light. At the present moment, people cannot understand even that there is life after death. Most people. There is life after death—they cannot understand, even big, big professors, big, big learned scholars.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. If anyone wants to take advantage of it, he can take. We have got fifty books like this. Those who are interested in the science and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can read all these books. Otherwise, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, That will also help. The human civilization means everyone shall try to become first-class man. This is human civilization, not to remain like animals. That attempt is lacking now. Here the civilization is that the dog is jumping or running, and human being is running in a motor car, and he is thinking he is more civilized than the dog. But the business is running. That's all. The dog is having sex on the street, and the human being is having sex in a very nice decorated apartment and therefore he is civilized. But the business is the same. The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense. Therefore śāstra says, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samanyam etat paśubhir narāṇām: "This business of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is common to the animal and to the man." The man, if he does not understand what he is, why he is suffering this material tribulations, then he remains cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they cannot question, but human being can question. And he should take the answer from these books of knowledge. That is human life. Otherwise, so far eating, sleeping, sex and defense, that is common for the dogs and man. There is no difference. He is doing in his own way, we are doing in our own way, but the business is the same. So human being must go above these four businesses, the fifth business. The fifth business is how to understand God. Otherwise, the bodily four businesses, that is common. Even an ant, it is also eating. It is going from this place to that place: "Where is a grain of sugar?" And we are also running in car this way and that way: "Where is eating?" The hog is also running: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" So... (break)

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2).

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: What are the methods used in attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How does one get to...

Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness you achieve the goal of life. In the present condition we are accepting one body, and we are dying after a few days. Then accept another body. And that body is according to your activity. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. You can get any one of them. You'll have to accept one body. That is called transmigration of the soul. So if one is under this consciousness that "I am eternal. Why I am changing body? How to solve it?" that is intelligence. And not to work like cats and dogs and die, that is not intelligence. One who makes solution of this problem, he is intelligent. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the ultimate solution of all problems of life.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man. That is the difficulty. Who is trying to control his mind, control his senses? This is the first condition to become a first-class man. As soon as a man sees a beautiful woman, immediately his mind is agitated. Where is the control? And as soon as the mind is agitated, the senses are agitated. And this is the first condition of the first-class man, that he should not be agitated in his mind, and agitated by senses. This is the first condition.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is the only business of human being, to know the Absolute Truth, God. That is the only business. Otherwise what is the difference between cats and dogs and human being? They do not care to know what is God. So if human being also in the same status, doesn't care to know what is God, then what is the difference between dogs and human being?

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Where is civilization? (laughter) The mother is killing child—is that civilization? Where is civilization? Less than doggish civilization. Dog also do not do that. And they are claiming civilization, nonsense rascals. Mother is killing child, and is that civilization? Less than dogs and cats. The dogs and cats also do not kill their children. They try to protect. You know? The cats, they carry their cubs from one place to another so that the male cat may not kill. The tiger also do that. The tiger, they also give protection to the...

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Yadubara: ...problem of suicide here, but in all schools all over the country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are publicly suiciding, and others are silently suiciding. The suiciding policy is going on. Somebody manifests; somebody does not manifest. That's all. If the human life is wasted for sense gratification, that is suicidal. Because you got the opportunity of enlightenment and you live like dogs and cats, this is suicide. (break) This, what is called, hydrogen bomb manufacturer, he is thinking that he is successful in his life by discovering this hydrogen bomb. but he does not know how to save him from death. So it is suicidal.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Donate all these buildings to you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The buildings will remain there, but they will be finished. What is this education? They do not know what is God, what is soul, and what is the meaning of education? Simply bodily concept of life like cats and dogs, so what is the use of education? They remain cats and dogs. That is no value.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Now men are killing their own children. Is it not? Even cats and dogs do not do this. Although they give birth at a time half a dozen children, still they are not anxious to kill them. (pause) So I am coming in one minute. Please sit down. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: In Los Angeles city they have coyotes, like a wolf, and they go around eating the pet cats and dogs.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: People are very upset.

Prabhupāda: In the city?

Brahmānanda: Yes. In the residential areas especially. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...hiding?

Brahmānanda: Yes. But they are becoming even more and more bold. Even during the day now they are coming, and they'll go in someone's... On the lawn there will be a dog playing or a cat, and... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Those animals sometimes kill children also, small children. (break) ...padaṁ yad vipadam: "Every step there is danger." This is place. (break)

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When you speak of taking care of your responsibilities for Kṛṣṇa, doesn't that also have a material aspect to it? Just like a parent must bring up the child, must take care of the child, train it to read, and to write, and so on...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means we are taking care of the children—why? Just to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, not to become cats and dogs. This is our responsibility. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that "Here is a child. He may be saved to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious." Therefore we are taking so much care in the Dallas. We are not irresponsible. But our responsibility is there, that "Make him Kṛṣṇa conscious."

Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why ten days? Live here for ten years. (laughter)

Member: If you please, I have no objections.

Prabhupāda: No. We want many educated men to understand this philosophy and preach. People are... Whole world, they are in ignorance—the value of life. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). They are accepting this body as self. The whole trouble is there. So-called scientist, philosopher—everyone is thinking, "I am this body," and therefore there is so much trouble. They do not know what he is and what is his goal of life, how life should be molded. No knowledge. Therefore vigorous preaching is required. Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that, that all people are suffering. There is little knowledge in India. So anyone who has taken his birth in India, he should make his life perfect by studying this Vedic literature and then spread the knowledge all over the world because they are in ignorance. Here also now they are ignorant. They do not know what is the value of life, thinking like cats and dogs. What is your idea about the value of life?

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Yes. To be a dog, that's all right because the dog doesn't suffer. He is enjoying.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why you are doing austerity? Remain as dog and cat. Therefore you are mūḍha. You do not know what is suffering, what is enjoyment. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore one who is intelligent, jñāni, bahūnām jan... After suffering in this way and talking all nonsense, when he comes to the real knowledge, then he surrenders. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān maṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is knowledge.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Brahmānanda: They think reformation is a restriction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reformation means restriction. Civilized means restriction. Aryan means restriction. That is civilized life. Unrestricted life means cats and dogs. Laws are meant for restriction, and they are meant for the human society, not for the cats and dogs. Why the legislative assembly is there? Why the cars are going right or left? It is meant for the civilized person, not for the cats and dogs. So civilization means restriction. A dog can have sex life on the street, but you cannot have. That is restriction because you are civilized. Civilized means restriction. The more you restrict, more you become civilized. Otherwise you remain animal.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Enjoy means another machine will strike, and his enjoyment will stop. There is ship, going fast. Where he will go fast?

Brahmānanda: Around the island.

Prabhupāda: Just like the dog. He goes fast here and there. "Gow! Gow!" (laughter) It is like that. He is going fast. Doggish mentality. That's all, all dogs and cats, no human being. This civilization means they are creating only dogs and cats, animals, go-kharaḥ, cows and asses. They are... We don't take them as human being. All animals.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to take a mass of crowlike people and elevate them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human beings, after all, they are. They can be educated. That is the opportunity of human life, that he can be educated. The cats and dogs cannot. (break)

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: To cleanse the heart, beginning of cleanse the heart, that everyone is cats and dogs and so-called human beings... They are under the bodily concept of life. It has to be cleansed, that "You are not this body." If he understands that, then he will understand other things. This is the beginning of knowledge. But where is that knowledge? No school, no college, teaches this thing. So they remain in ignorance. What is this education if he remains in ignorance? (break) ...kinds of advertisement.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They... And the devotees know that we are under the control of the Supreme, but you do not know. You are cats and dogs, and the dogs do not know, the cats do not know, you do not know. Therefore you are no better than the cats and dogs. And we know that there is God; there is controller. Therefore we are not cats and dogs. We are equal to the cats and dogs. You do not know; therefore you remain cats and dogs. We know.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). So this process... Bring the... Invite them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, give them prasādam. Everyone will take part in this way, not immediately instructing that "You are not this body; you are soul." He will not be able to.

Cyavana: It's too difficult.

Prabhupāda: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public—"Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing." Never argued, neither He discussed Bhāgavatam. For ordinary public-four hours' kīrtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasādam: "Take prasāda." This process... Because unless he has got little śraddhā, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)—only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult. But this process—chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, giving them chance to hear it and take prasādam—that will cure.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: The body is just a vehicle.

Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many. So there are nine lakhs' forms of body within the water. Then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then 1,100,000 species of life like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then you come to the birds' life, three million different forms of. Then we come to beast life. That is also... Birds, I am sorry. Birds' life, one million, and then the beast life, three millions... Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually, we become civilized. So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand "what is God, what I am, what is our relationship." So if we don't take advantage of this civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs, jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage on this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): You get attracted by a lot of side attractions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the education is so defective that even university students, if I say that "You are going to be a dog," they say, "What is the harm if I become?" They say like that. The education is so defective, they don't mind to become a dog. They think, "It is a facility to become a dog because I can have sex on the street without any restrictions."

Indian man (3): Yes. I mean they have lost their self-respect for that.

Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if death is sure in any case... If death is sure in any case, for the thinking man or for the nonthinking man, then why think about it?

Prabhupāda: No, non... For thinking men, for them there is no death; there is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between thinking men and nonthinking men. We are preparing for going... (break) There is... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligence. Now, suppose that here is open field. There is... We are walking very nicely. And the downtown, congested city, that is not very nice. So at least, if I don't spoil my energy to make the place uncomfortable, if I save my energy and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this open field, that is intelligence or that is intelligent? Which is intelligent? We are also going to die. That's all right. But we are going to die like intelligent person, not like cats and dogs. That is the difference.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Devotee (1): We need defense so we have to work hard to keep defense, economy. The common man has to contribute to the state to keep its defense.

Prabhupāda: Defense, that means...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's today... Unless there is very complex society...

Devotee (1): Otherwise we will be exploited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless there is a very complex...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say change the society. Society means you and me. If we agree that this kind of civilization is wrong, then society, what does it mean? They have made the United Nations. What is that? For this purpose, that "Why we are fighting unnecessarily?" So make their settlement, how to live. What is the standard of civilization? What is the aim of life? What they are doing in the United Nation for the last thirty years? What they have done? They simply fighting, the same cats and dogs. What is the value?

Harikeśa: Whenever there is some war they send some observers.

Prabhupāda: That is cats and watchdog. That's all, watchdog. (laughter) That's all, civilization of cats and dogs.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: ...formula, if you want to make peaceful the dog society, is it possible?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break)

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Unless one who knows "what I am, and what is my business, what is my aim of life," then how he can be happy? Just like a dog is jumping here and there, here and there, but he does not know what is the aim of life, so if we do not come to the spiritual platform, that we remain animal like cats and dogs, then what is the civilization of cats and dogs? If you keep the dogs as dog and if you ask some of them to come together and make a peace formula, is it possible the dogs will be able to make any peace formula? Because they are dogs, they will go on barking. That's all. So we are attempting so many peace formula, but we are keeping the consciousness on the body, exactly like the dog. And therefore there is no peace. There cannot be any peace. First of all you must come to the real platform, the living force, what is that spirit soul, what is the necessity, what is the aim. That you do not know.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Garbhādāna-saṁskāra. There should be a function, all the brāhmaṇas and relatives should come, and there will be ceremony, and everyone will know that "This man is going to now sex, have sex for begetting children." This is ceremony, not secretly like cats and dogs. Cats and dogs also, they do not do secretly. A human being do it secretly and do not want the botheration. Therefore their scientific advancement means how to kill the child, how to make abortion, how to take contraceptive pills, how to distribute them, how allow the children, "Yes, you go on, but take these pills so that you may not be bothered." Yes. Why not stop it, botheration? That you cannot, because animals. Because animal civilization, they cannot do it. Kaṇḍutive manivasi viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Why don't you teach them to become dhīraḥ, sober—"Let me tolerate this itching sensation"—brahmacārī? That teaching is not good. You do it repeatedly, suffer, and suffer consequences. And to stop it they suffer in so many ways, suffering, suffering.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Busy intelligent means at least whatever he is doing, there is some meaning, busy intelligent. And lazy intelligent means he is doing higher things. Lazy intelligent means brāhmaṇa, and busy intelligent means kṣatriya. So the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). The society should be divided into four classes. The śūdras, they are busy fools. Therefore they are to be guided. They are to be guided. If there are, hundred workers are there, then one leader must be there to give the direction: "Why you are doing this? Why you don't do this?" Otherwise he'll create havoc. Busy fool. So the whole world is full of busy fools. That's all. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that for brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma sva... (BG 18.42). There is no recommendation that "You work hard day and night." The brahminical qualification is controlling the senses, controlling the mind, truthful, clean, knows everything nicely, practical application of the knowledge, full faith in śāstra and Bhagavān. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. These things are recommended, not that a brāhmaṇa should become very busy whole day and night for getting food. So śāstra says, "There is no use of becoming busy for your food. Food is there already." Food is already there. He'll get his food. That is arrangement by God. But they are busy fool. They do not understand the God's arrangement. Only for food they are busy whole day and night like cats and dogs. Now this land is there. You can... Everyone can grow food if he works for two months. Everyone can grow his whole year's foodstuff. There is so much land. But no, they'll not grow food. They will grow hammer, manufacturing it. You see? Tire tube, then atom bomb, then this and that. They are busy. They are busy fool. Actually they are fools, and they are very busy. Everyone is busy. There are so many parts in the motorcar, three thousand part, and they are busy in manufacturing three thousand parts of motor parts. So everyone is busy in producing things unwanted. But they have created a society in such a way that they have to do that.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the first education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, beginning of Bhagavad-gītā-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Unless one understands that "There is change of body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and that's all. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we are keeping this civilization—animals. How there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation, and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that? Because you are dog, it is not possible.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) They fight among themselves for nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are keeping them cats and dogs by education, culture, and they want to be happy. How it is possible? First of all let them come to the standard of human being. Then there is question of peace and happiness. They are kept as cats and dogs, and how there can be peace? You cannot make any peace in the dog society. That is not possible. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that consciousness can come only when one is spiritually educated. If he is simply engaged for satisfying the senses, material, then he remains a cat and dog. You cannot expect any peace.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible. What is that, māṁ aprāpyaiva mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20)?

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oneness means Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: In temperament also. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18). This is the... So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human beings or dogs, they are the same. But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is animal civilization. There is no spiritual knowledge. Simply like cats and dogs, they are working hard, eating, sleeping...

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: ...culture should be designed to cure the material disease.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Aryan culture. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Aryan culture. But they do not know what is punar janma, how we can stop this birth and death, nothing of the sort. Simply dogs and cats, that's all, jumping, very busy. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That's all. Immediately the verdict: "Oh, he does not know anything. He's as good." So? Everything is going nice?

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun you know. It's the only way to enjoy!

Prabhupāda: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street is the same. It has no difference of taste.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (Hindi aside to someone) Sir, then, sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhakti labhate parām. In your, I mean... That is the highest...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can say when you are yourself brahma bhūta (SB 4.30.20). But if you are not brahma bhuta, that is not possible. They are trying to unite everyone in the United Nations, all cats and dogs. They are simply barking. There is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. They'll simply go on barking. And it is an association of dogs barking. That's all. So if you keep them dogs, there is no question of unity. If you bring them to brahman consciousness, aha brahmāsmi, then there will be unity.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now these human beings they get educated from animals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not education. This jara avidya, material education, is no education. It doesn't require any education. This education for eating, sleeping, education, that is not education, that is cats and dogs they also know how to do it without education. Real education is brahma-vidyā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā—this is education. So that is now given up throughout the whole world. Nobody is interested in Brahman; they are simply interested in sense gratification.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: They do not know the real problem. Who is enjoyer? That they do not know. That enjoyer is covered. And they are talking on the cover. That.... In Bengal, it is a proverb, said, that: Sobraniye tanatan.(?) In the.... I think I was talking on this. In the coconut. The coconut sweet pulp and water is within. And they are struggling with the fibers above the coconut. Coconut.... They have got some information coconut is enjoyable, but where is the enjoyable article is there, that they do not know. They have simply information this body, and the coconut's body is covered with fibers. And they are fighting with the fibers. None of these so-called capitalists or, what is called, Communists, they do not know where is the real substance is. Superficially, they are fighting on the platform of fiber covering. That's all. Sobraniye tanatan,(?) this Bengali word exactly. They're fighting just like dogs. Actually they do not know how to become happy, but one dog is barking upon another dog, and they're fighting, attacking, barking-useless. The dogs and cats, they do not know what is the value of life, and they fight on the covering, same fiber, fight. But here is a chance, human being. Therefore dialectic. Dialectic materialism. You should be materialist; you should not condemn anything, both the inside and outside. The inside pulp of coconut requires the covering outside. Otherwise, it will be spoiled. Crude example. But the real substance is inside, not outside. But these rascals, they have no information of the inside substance. They think that "Here is coconut. Let us try to find out happiness." And they are simply struggling to adjust the fibers. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhaḥ, rascals. Hmmm? What do you think, Haṁsadūta?

Haṁsadūta: Very perfect.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: 'Cause all philosophy is based on the proposition that "I am this body."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Harikeśa: Or "I am this..."

Prabhupāda: Then he remains the same animal, cats and dogs. There is no advancement. Therefore you see despite so many rascal philosophers in the Western countries, they simply fight and bomb and cheat and politics, diplomacy. The same—on the surface of the coconut, not inside. So you have to prove that "All of you are rascals. You do not know where to get pleasure." They're missing that point. All rascals, they're putting new philosophy, thesis. So what is the value of that thesis? He does not know. It requires expert.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: The problem nowadays though is that I met some of these Socialists on the train, and I would ask them, "What is your philosophy?" and they would just smile and...

Prabhupāda: There is no philosophy. They're cats and dogs. What philosophy they have?

Harikeśa: They don't know their philosophy. So how can we defeat them?

Prabhupāda: The philosophy classes are being closed now in the universities.

Page Title:Cats and dogs (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, MadhuGopaldas
Created:21 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0
No. of Quotes:143