But the impersonalists will say, "The Supreme Controller is not a person." He's a person. But Brahmā says, "No, He's a person." Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Vigraha means person. Mūrti. But He's not ordinary person. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Sat cit ānanda. His form is made of eternity, bliss, and knowledge. Our form, this form, is not eternity. It will die. It will be finished. Why my form? Even Brahmā's form. Although he will live for many millions of years. Just like one day, twelve hours, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Brahmā's one day, twelve hours, he... These four yugas, forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand. That is Brahmā's twelve days, uh, twelve hours. Now we can calculate his life. He'll live for one hundred years. So his twelve hours is millions of years. So still, he will die. Anything in this material world, it will not stay. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Everything will be finished. Therefore even Brahmā's body is not eternal. What to speak of my body, your body, ant's body, his body... Sat. Sat means "that exists". Oṁ tat sat.
Calculation (Other Lectures)
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Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahmā has got also material body. Those who are living in the moon planet, they are also material body. In the sun planet, they have got material... But different varieties. They live ten thousand years of their... Daiva. Ten thousand. Daiva means our one six months equal to one day there. Such ten thousand years, they live. That is calculated in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). So that is twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga. These four yugas, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara yugas, they're forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. That becomes Brahmā's twelve hours. So according to the different planet, according to the orbit, the time duration, the, everything is different. A ant's hundred years and my hundred years not the same. It is relative. Atomic. According to the body, according to the size... The, the world, the scientific world also accepts relative world.
The Kṛṣṇa consciousness message is kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). There is no other Bhagavān. Bhagavān means full of six opulences. So Kṛṣṇa is completely, cent percent full of all opulences. Even Nārāyaṇa, He is ninety-six percent. And Lord Śiva is eighty-four percent. And Brahmā is seventy-eight percent. These are calculated by the Gosvāmīs. So Kṛṣṇa is cent percent Bhagavān. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Nānyat. Nobody. So simply you have to... Just like our little girl, Sarasvatī, she also preaches. She goes to some friend. She asks, "Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa?" If he says "No, I do not know very much." So she says, "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." That's all. This is preaching. It is not difficult. Simply, just like the child, you go everyone, talk to everyone that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That's all. Everyone can do it. It is not very difficult. You believe it. You be convinced on the statement that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
That is Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa cannot enjoy the material energy; He enjoys the internal energy. Kṛṣṇa has got many energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, svābhāvakī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). That is the Vedic version, that the Supreme Absolute Truth has got multi-energies, and by utilizing, manipulating that energy, He is manifesting Himself in so many ways. The same example: just like the sun, by expanding its energy, heat and light, is perceived. The sun is ninety-three million miles away from us. So how we can understand the sun? By his heat and energy. By his heat, we can calculate what is the actual temperature. The scientists are calculating the actual temperature of the sun. So similarly, although Kṛṣṇa is far, far away from us... Goloka eva nivasati. He's residing in His abode, Goloka, Vṛndāvana. This is the replica of that Vṛndāvana. So akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. How He's akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37)? How He's all-pervading? By His energy. By His energy.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya (Bs. 5.46). Just like you take one candle, then you lit up another candle, another candle, another candle. All these candles are equally powerful, but still, the calculation is, Kṛṣṇa is the first candle, Balarāma is the second candle. In this way, viṣṇutayā vibhāti—the expansion of Viṣṇu, innumerable.
Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam. This Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the person who is situated in everyone's, every living being's, heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That īśvara, antaryāmī, who is existing in everyone's heart, that is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Not only within the heart of all living entities, but He is within the atom also. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayā... Paramāṇu. Paramāṇu means atom. In this way Viṣṇu expansion are there. It is inconceivable for us, but by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, we can partially understand from the description of the śāstras. Otherwise we cannot imagine how these things can happen, but it happens. We have to accept. Śāstra-cakṣuṣaḥ. We have to see through the pages of śāstra.
So the second Saṅkarṣaṇa also is expansion of Nityānanda Rāma, Balarāma. So where is this Vaikuṇṭhaloka? It is rather imprudent to inquire because we cannot calculate even this material world, what is the length and breadth of this universe. This is only one universe. This is called māyika brahmānanda. Māyika means shadow. Shadow... Shadow is existing on account of the real. So therefore it is called māyā. Just like the example is, in your country, in the window, there are many nice model, beautiful women standing or a man standing, nicely dressed, but that is not real man or woman. That is shadow. That is called māyā. This is the example of māyā. Māyā means it is not fact, but it appears like fact. That is called māyā. Another example is... Just like the mirage, water in the desert. Actually there is no water, but it appears that there is water. The foolish animals, they run after this water, but there is no water. Simply running after will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria. So every one of us in this material world—hankering after happiness. Everyone is trying to be happy.
This is called māyā existence.
So there is another world. That information is given here. Māyātīte vyāpi. Vyāpi means very extensive. This whole material world is one-fourth of Kṛṣṇa's expansion, one-fourth. And that Vaikuṇṭhaloka is three-fourths. So therefore it is called vyāpi. Vyāpi means very extensive. We cannot calculate even this material existence. It is only one-fourth. Now, how it will be possible for us to calculate the vyāpi vaikuṇṭha-loka? Vyāpi-vaikuṇṭha-loka. Vaikuṇṭha means... Vi means without, and kuṇṭha means anxiety. So Vaikuṇṭhaloka means there is no anxiety. There is no anxiety. Here we are full of anxieties in this material... Even big, big businessman, who has got enough money, you'll find he is in anxiety. He's always thinking, "How this business will go on? How this, maintain so many men?" So I have seen it that our printer, Dai Nippon, the president, when we, for the temporary, we stopped our business, he was full of anxiety.
How many species of plants and trees, and that is two million. How many the botanists have studied? Two million. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Even in your country, in your village, you'll find daily some new vegetable. You see? So these are the Vedic calculation. And not only that, there are different species of life, and how they are working, what senses are predominant in each and every life and everything is described. Everything is very minutely described. Therefore, if we want to have knowledge, you cannot do it by mental speculation. We should know that our mind is very, very limited. Simply by theorizing, it is not possible. Therefore tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet sampit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to know from the supreme authority or the Vedas. Then the knowledge will be perfect.
That is the beginning, from the creation, īśvara. So īśvara, there are innumerable īśvara forms, as it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Many, many, many millions and trillions of īśvara forms... It is stated in the Bhāgavatam that many... How many, how you can calculate? That is compared—just like in the river or in the ocean there are waves, but you cannot count how many waves are there. That is not possible. Can you count the waves of the ocean, going on, day and night, waves? Similarly, in big, big rivers... So God's incarnation, they are coming out, innumerable, just like the waves, but we can understand by the action that He is incarnation of God.
When Kṛṣṇa was born, Gargamuni, the family priest... It is the system among the Vedic culturalists that as soon as a child is born, immediately his horoscope is made and his past, future is calculated. Janma-grasthi (?). So that function, on account of poverty and many other causes, nobody practically practices. But this is also one of the saṁskāra. Before birth there is saṁskāra, garbhādhāna saṁskāra. While the child is within the womb, there is saṁskāra. In this way, a human body is purified by different kinds of saṁskāras, or purificatory methods. Daśabhidasaṁskāra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvija. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. If in... Anyone is born by father and mother, even cats and dogs they have got father and mother. Any life you get, there is father and mother.
It is not at all difficult. So people do not understand, do not consult this Vedic literature, how it is stated the Supreme. How one can become Supreme? The Supreme... We judge the Supreme in the same philosophy, frog philosophy. "Atlantic Ocean? Oh, it may be a little bigger than this well. That's all." So our calculation of God is always like that. "Kṛṣṇa, He looks like us, just like a man. So what is there? He may be a little powerful than me. All right, He has spoken Bhagavad-gītā. All right. He's little more wiser than us." So we always compare with us. But it is not. He's supreme. We have no idea of the Supreme. Therefore we forget personality. Patiṁ patī... It is clearly stated, pati. Can pati, the husband or proprietor, can become imperson? No. When the conception of pati, husband and proprietor, is there, then He is personal. Patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt mahān prabhavaiḥ puruṣaḥ.
That is devotional. Of course, it is not pride, but take from example of my life. I was retired in Vṛndāvana, and at seventy years old I thought that it was to be done: "Nobody did it. Let me try." So I came to America. Today is the tenth anniversary. (devotees cheer) So at least from material calculation, if I had not taken that risk... When I was coming, my friends and others said, "This man is going to die." "Never mind," I thought, "death will come. Let me try." So this activity must be there. That is the begging of Sanātana Gosvāmī, that he said, āpana-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra: "What shall I do?" Doesn't matter what is your age, young man or old man. You must execute the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, paramparā, Caitanya Mahāprabhu and your guru. That is real life of devotional service, to take some responsibility for working and execute it to your best capacity.
We are seeing every night so many planets. We are making tiny attempt to go to moon planet or some other planet, but there are, we see there are so many millions and trillions of planet. What about their situation? We have made our calculation from here that they are simply decoration; there is no life. No, there is life. There is life, but we do not know it. So yesterday our scientist, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, was speaking that in the history of human society, actually these two things are ignorance: what is the beginning of life and what are these planetary systems.
So we are after knowledge, but so many things are unknown to us. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us by his practical behavior to approach the spiritual master, and putting his case that "I am suffering in this way." He was minister, there was no question of suffering. He was very well situated.
They think that He has got two hands, two legs like us; therefore they are called mūḍha. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. Mūḍha nābhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Sarvato pāṇi-pādaḥ. Not only two hands, but He has got many, many millions and trillions of hands and legs all over the universe. This is Kṛṣṇa. So don't take it as ordinary human being. Then you'll be calculated as one of the rascals. Don't be rascal; be intelligent to understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become liberated, immediately.
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naitimām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
That is the qualification. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa—not thoroughly; at least partial, what is the nature of Kṛṣṇa—then immediately you become liberated. That is, Kṛṣṇa says personally. Naṣṭa prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Prāyeṣu. Prāyeṣu means almost. We cannot become perfect in this material world, but to some extent if we become perfect, then our life becomes successful. To some extent. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. These things are there.
You want to see God. All right, God has come here. See, here is God. "No, this is idol worship." In the Bengali there is a word, ei gule nipamsa pechlo belo gelo (?). So this is our position. This position will not help us. We must admit our position that in the God's creation everything is inconceivable by us. We cannot calculate within our limitation. That is not possible.
Therefore śāstra says, acintya khalu ye bhava. The same word in another way: na tas tarkyena yojayet. Things which are beyond your conception, don't try to understand it by your so-called logic and argument. But one logic, one argument, if we are sincere, then we can accept even by logic and argument, that... That is also stated in śāstra, in Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.
That's a long story. Therefore, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was not very old, but he understood that "I will have to die by snake bite, so let me get free from this royal responsibilities." He at once handed over his kingdom to his son and went to the bank of the Ganges and sat down there tight, without taking any food and drink, for seven days, and he heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the authoritative source of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and he died at the end of seven days. A snake came and bit him.
So this astrological calculation were then; still there are. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, when Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was written, it was five thousand years before. It is stated there that in the beginning of Kali-yuga, there will be buddha-avatāra, incarnation. Vabhisekha (?). Vabhisekha means "there will appear." These are śāstra, these are astrological calculation, everything perfect. The other day, when I was discussed about Sanātana Goswami, how even an ordinary hotel keeper, he kept an astrologer who told the hotel keeper that "This man has got eight golden dollars." Just see. This is astrology.
I become more devoted: "Oh, my master is so great." So therefore simply knowing, "God is great, and I have got some relationship with God," that is not sufficient. You must know how much great He is. Of course, you cannot calculate, but as far as possible, you should know how great He is.
So that greatness of Lord Kṛṣṇa is being described here by Lord Caitanya to His disciple, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Advaya-jñāna-tattva, vraje vrajendra-nandana. Advaya-jñāna-tattva. Advaya-jñāna-tattva means He is Absolute. He is not relative. Here everything is relative, but God means He is Absolute. He has nothing to be dependent. Here everything, we are all dependent. To understand something, to understand light, we have to understand darkness. To understand good, we have to understand what is bad. So here it is everything duality. So Kṛṣṇa is Absolute.
In the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find, all these planetary manifestations is situated in one fourth of His effulgence. Three fourths of the manifestation are in the spiritual sky. Tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam. Aśeṣa-bhūtam. It is so much extended that nobody can calculate how far. We cannot calculate even the sunshine, how far it is extended, and what to speak of that original effulgence. So our knowledge is always imperfect. We cannot study even millions and millionth part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. So it is futile to deny God because we cannot calculate His potencies and expansion of potencies.
Then Kṛṣṇa describes so many things. Out of that one verse is that atha vā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna: "My dear Arjuna, I have described in nutshell many of My potencies in displaying this manifested world, but you can understand one thing, that by one part, by manifestation of one of My part, I am..., I have entered all the universe and all the hearts of living entities." Just like by one reflection of the sun, if you put millions of pots with water, by one of the potencies of the sun, you'll find the sun is represented in every pot. During noontime, by one of the potencies of the sun, you can feel, five thousand miles away, the sun is just over your head. So, as it is possible even for a material object, so this Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spiritual form, He has got many potencies which we cannot calculate. In the Vedic literature it is said: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). (end)
Similarly, there are different kinds of descriptions of the Supreme Lord. The experienced spiritual master gives us the information in one place.
So about the expansions of Lord Kṛṣṇa, in Brahma-saṁhitā, Īśopaniṣad, and there are various Vedic literatures... They are all taken together, calculated and presented by Lord Caitanya. He says,
svayaṁ-rūpa tad-ekātma-rūpa, āveśa-nāma
- prathamei tina-rūpe rahena bhagavān
Svayaṁ-rūpa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, He is called svayaṁ-rūpa, His personal feature. Then tad-ekātmā. Tad-ekātma-rūpa means not exactly the same person, but almost the same. Tad-ekātma-rūpa. And āveśa.
And each Brahmā's period... That you have read in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). The Brahmā's one day means 4,300,000's times 1000. That is Brahmā's twelve hours. Similarly, twenty-four hours, one day. Now calculate one month, such one years, such hundred years. So that hundred years of Brahmā is only a breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu, just like we are breathing, our inhalation and exhalation is going on. So during the breathing period, when the breathing is out, all these brahmāṇḍas become created, and when it is inhaled, all, they are closed, account closed. So this is going on. And such Mahā-Viṣṇu is the part, one of the fourth part of Kṛṣṇa's expansion. That is stated. Lord Caitanya is giving evidence from Brahma-saṁhitā:
So what are the līlāvatāra? Lord Caitanya says, līlāvatāra kṛṣṇera nā yāya gaṇana: "How many number of līlāvatāras are there, nobody can count." God is unlimited, so anything manifested by Him is unlimited. That cannot be calculated by us. So there are so many līlāvatāra. Pradhāna kariyā kahi dig-daraśana: "Some of them I am just mentioning." Nobody can fully calculate or understand how many līlāvatāras are there and where it is going and how it is going on. But it is going on. The same example, that the sun is always in the sky. Now, where it is, that you have to find out. But sun is always in the sky. Similarly, the līlāvatāra is always there. Just like Kṛṣṇa. In this planet Kṛṣṇa is not present, but in some of the universe He is present. His avatāra is going on, is going on. In every minute, every second, He is taking His birth and He is fighting in the Kurukṣetra. That is called nitya-līlā, eternal.
Asaṅkhya. Asaṅkhya means countless. Nobody can count how many manvantarāvatāras are there. How it is so? He is explaining. Brahmāra eka-dine haya caudda manvantara: "In one day of Brahmā, in one day of Brahmā..." That you have calculated according to Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Brahmaṇo, or Brahmā, arhat. Arhat means one day, twelve hours. What is that twelve hours according to our calculation? Sahasra-yuga-paryantam, sahasra, one thousand yugas. And what is the duration of yuga? Four million, three hundred thousands of years, one yuga. Such one thousand, that makes Brahmā's one day, twelve hours. Similarly night, twelve hours. Similarly one month. In this way he has got hundred years' duration of life.
Prabhupāda: Now, this one day, twelve hours, within this twelve hours, there are fourteen Manus. Twelve hours of Brahmā means 4, 3, five zero, eight zero. What is that, 4, 3, eight zeroes? What is the calculation according to your arithmetic, 4, 3, eight zeroes? Huh?
Hayagrīva: 4,300,000,000.
Rūpānuga: Four billion three hundred and eight.
Prabhupāda: 4, 3, eight zeroes.
Devotee: 4,300,000,000.
Rūpānuga: Yes. That's right.
Prabhupāda: Four billion...
Ten millions a lakṣa. That means five millions and four thousands of Manus are there in one Brahmā's life. Five million and four hundred thousand of manvantarāvatāra, incarnation of Manu, in one brahmāṇḍa. And Lord Caitanya... Ananta brahmāṇḍe aiche karaha. And there are innumerable brahmāṇḍas, universes. Now you can calculate how many Manus are there. Therefore you cannot calculate. He said, "innumerable."
- ananta brahmāṇḍe aiche karaha gaṇana
- mahā-viṣṇu eka-śvāse brahmāra jīvana
And all these Manus and Brahmās, they are living only on the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-viṣṇura niśvāsera nāhika paryanta. And just imagine what is that breathing? Eka manvantarāvatārera dekha lekhāra anta.
And all these Manus and Brahmās, they are living only on the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-viṣṇura niśvāsera nāhika paryanta. And just imagine what is that breathing? Eka manvantarāvatārera dekha lekhāra anta.
So in one breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu, you cannot calculate how many Manus are there. This is called unlimited. We say "unlimited," but we should have some knowledge how it is unlimited. There is no question of counting the energies displayed by the Supreme Lord in so many ways. Because we cannot explain something, we dismiss the whole thing. "There is void, nothing. Void." Because my mind, my intelligence, cannot go so far, we say, "Perhaps, maybe it was like this." So this is all mental speculation. And how we can say? Now, the opposite party may say, "How you can say?" Now, we have got evidence from the Vedic literature. But the other party, they have no evidence. They are simply speculationist.
"This child is born at such and such moment. He will be like this and this." And that will be... You will be surprised... Not surprised. This is calculation. In my horoscope it is written there, "At the age of seventy years he will go across the sea." It is written there. Yes. And there are so many things still. So this astrologer was so accurate. I have got that horoscope. Not here. If some day I shall, then will show. It is clearly written there that "This time he will go across the sea." Just see. The circumstances became so that I have come. So astrology is so nice.
So when Kṛṣṇa was born the same principle was followed. Astrologer was called for, and there were good astrologers. And the great astrologer, a famous astrologer who came to see Kṛṣṇa's birth affair, he was Gargamuni. His name was Gargamuni.
"He had three colors before." Gṛhṇato 'nuyugaṁ tanūḥ: "According to the age, according to the millennium, He had three other colors." Śuklo raktas tathā pīta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ: "And He had that white color and red color and yellow color. Idānīm, just now, He has assumed this black color." So this was the astronomical calculation of Kṛṣṇa's birth. Satya-yuge dharma-dhyāna karāya 'śukla'-mūrti dhari'.
Now, śukla-mūrti, that white incarnation of God, He will teach the people... The incarnation of God, why does He come? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. The incarnation of God comes... When there is discrepancy all over the world about religious principle, the incarnation comes. So Lord Caitanya says that in the Satya-yuga this incarnation of God in white color, He preached meditation, dhyāna.
Similarly, there are innumerable universes, and it is moving from this, that, this, that... Now, just like kṛṣṇa-līlā, just Kṛṣṇa born at, at the prison house of Kaṁsa... Vasudeva, father, and Devakī, mother. Immediately, as soon as the child is born, the next, the next universe, there is birth. So same very thing. Just like now it is quarter to eight according to sun calculation. Immediately, you'll find some other place quarter to eight. Immediately you'll find quarter to eight in other place. Immediately... So quarter to eight you cannot change. Quarter to eight will exist within this movement of the sun planet or earthly planet. Anywhere, somebody, somewhere must be there quarter to eight. At any time. Even at 12 o'clock at night you inquire, "What is quarter to eight of the sun planet?" you'll have. Is it not a fact? This is called nitya-līlā. How nicely Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described.
Anywhere, somebody, somewhere must be there quarter to eight. At any time. Even at 12 o'clock at night you inquire, "What is quarter to eight of the sun planet?" you'll have. Is it not a fact? This is called nitya-līlā. How nicely Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described.
So Kṛṣṇa-līlā is always going on like that. Kṛṣṇa's birth, Janmāṣṭamī... We observe Janmāṣṭamī. But that Janmāṣṭamī is going on every moment. Janmāṣṭamī is going on. Kṛṣṇa's nitya-līlā. Kṛṣṇa-līlā-nitya, jyotiścakra-pramāṇe. Jyotiścakre sūrya yena phire rātri-dine. Now here it is also, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said that here sūrya is also on the orbit. Sapta-dvīpāmbudhi laṅghi' phire krame krame. Sapta-dvīpa. Now, according to Vedic calculation, this earth has seven, I mean to say, islands. Just like crossing the sea, we have come to your country from India. The crossing the sea means there are different islands. Now you can calculate the Asia, Europe, America, and, and, how many?
So that is calculation in Vedic know... Sapta-dvīpa. Sapta means seven. As the sun is coming in the orbit and crossing all the seven islands, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also coming in this universe, that universe, that universe. When He comes into this universe, He, He is seen in that tract of land which is called Vṛndāvana. Therefore that tract of land is so sacred. Lord Caitanya describes by His mission, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad dhāma vṛndāvanam. Ārādhya, the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, is worshipable Deity, and His dhāma, and His headquarters—and His dhāma means headquarters-Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is so important. When Kṛṣṇa comes... Just like when the sun appears in your country there is a particular city or place... Where it is where the sun first seen? Where it is?
Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is submitting His knowledge in astronomy. Astronomy. And He's dividing the whole day and night into sixty daṇḍas. According to Vedic calculation of time, the whole day and night... Just like, according to Western system, the whole day and night is divided into twenty-four hours, they have divided into still further... Sixty daṇḍas. They are called daṇḍas. Tina-sahasra... Rātri-dine haya ṣaṣṭi-daṇḍa-parimāṇa. The whole day and night is divided into sixty parts. Tina-sahasra chaya-śata 'pala' tāra māna. And these daṇḍas are again subdivided into three hundred and sixty palas. They are called pala. Daṇḍa and pala. Sūryodaya haite ṣaṣṭi-pala-kramodaya. And the sun rises in every sixty pala. We can, we can see sun is rising, but not all of a sudden we can see. But gradually.
So He is..., He is seen in the Manu's life, in the fourteen Manu's life. There are fourteen Manus. In each Manu's life, there are seventy-one catur-yugas, in each Manu's life. In the twenty-eighth catur-yuga, Kṛṣṇa, in the Dvāpara-yuga, appears. There is mathematical calculation. Soayāśata vatsara kṛṣṇera prakaṭa-prakāśa. And when He is in this universe, He remains here for 124 year, 125 years. When Kṛṣṇa was here He was for 125 years. And when He was in the battlefield, His age was about 100 years, almost 100 years. Because, just after finishing the battlefield, He went to Dvārakā, and, after some days, He disappeared. So I think it was more than hundred years when He was fighting as charioteer of Kṛṣṇa. Just imagine, a hundred-years-old man, how many children and grandchildren, great-grandchildren, might have. In those days, the boys were married... Still in India boys are married in early age.
So within these 125 years, all the pastimes that Kṛṣṇa displayed during His presence, all those things are going on in each and every universe, just like the sun planet is moving from one place to another. This is the idea of Kṛṣṇa-līlā.
- alāta-cakra-prāya sei līlā-cakra phire
- saba līlā saba brahmāṇḍe krame udaya kare
So saba līlā. And all the activities, they are manifested in either of the so many brahmāṇḍas. So at every second you just divide that 125 years into seconds and all, less than second, what it is? Of course, I do not know... But if you divide in that way, then you can calculate how many universes are there. How many seconds are there in one hour?
Just imagine that 360 seconds in one hour, so in one day we have got 24 hours. So 360 into 24, that becomes the seconds in one day. Then you multiply it into 30. That means in one month. Then you multiply it by 12. Then it comes to one year. Such 125. So you can calculate. At least you can imagine who many universes are there—by that calculation of second, and if you go further detail.
So God's creation is wonderful. Nobody can... Everything is unlimited. He's unlimited. His creation is unlimited. His pastimes are unlimited. His forms are unlimited. Everything unlimited. Everything. His incarnations are unlimited. Everything. Just like see, even in your own body, can you count how many hairs are on your body and head? They are unlimited. I am claiming "This is my body," but I do not know how many hairs are there.
These are inconceivable energies. And foolish rascals, they claim that "I am God." You see. God is not so cheap. One must know the science of God, how great is God. We cannot calculate. Those who cheaply take God, "God might be like me, you," just frog philosophy. The same frog philosophy. The frog is calculating the length and breadth of Atlantic Ocean, keeping itself in the well. You see. So similarly, these rascals, they are frogs in the well, and they are calculating the estimation of the length and breadth of Atlantic Ocean and claiming themselves as God.
So Lord Caitanya says, "Just like the time calculation of the sun is always present in the orbit of this earthly planet, similarly, in the orbit of Kṛṣṇa-līlā, everything is happening in some universe." That is called nitya-līlā. Because it is happening eternally and continually, in either of innumerable planets, which we cannot calculate, therefore His pastimes, appearance and disappearance are all eternal. We are not worshiper of a dead thing. Just like if a foolish person says at night, "Oh, sun is finished." How? "I cannot see. Because I don't see in the sky, it is finished." Similarly, the foolish person thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is..., I cannot see; therefore He's finished." This is foolish calculation. Now, from the description of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we can understand that Kṛṣṇa is not dead and gone. He's present always and every time, everywhere. And if we are sincerely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that Kṛṣṇa is always with us, He gives us protection, His mercy is there.
Now, so far the spiritual sky is concerned, there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and nobody can measure how great those Vaikuṇṭha planets are. Therefore how great that space of spiritual sky is, nobody can calculate.
- ananta vaikuṇṭha-paravyoma yāra dala-śreṇī
- sarvopari kṛṣṇaloka 'karṇikāra' gaṇi
Now, all these planets... Just like in a stem there are so many branches and flowers, take it for granted it is something like that. And the topmost flower... Just like if you take a rose flower, there are so many leaves, and on the topmost there is the nice flower, so the topmost planet in the spiritual sky, that is called Kṛṣṇaloka. Karṇikāra. That is just like... The shape of the Kṛṣṇaloka is just like a lotus flower.
The Lord says, "So what these ordinary living entities with teeny brain, they can calculate about Lord's opulence?" These are opulences of the Supreme Lord. He says, brahmā śiva. Brahmā. Brahmā is considered to be the highest of the living entities, and Śiva, Lord Śiva, he is also considered very high-grade demigod. So Lord Caitanya says that even Brahmā and Śiva cannot calculate, and what to speak of these ordinary human beings. They cannot understand it. It is not possible. Ei-mata ṣaḍ-aiśvarya. Nobody can calculate the six opulences of Kṛṣṇa. We have discussed the six opulences: wealth, riches and strength and fame and knowledge and beauty and renunciation. Nobody can calculate.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
Never mind whether he's a human being or animal or insect or bird or plant or aquatic; they're all living entities. In the sea, there are nine hundred thousand species of living entities. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. These are the statements in the Vedic scriptures. Exactly stated: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. It does not say ten hundred thousand; it says nine hundred thousand. Exact calculation. Now bring any biologist to calculate how many species are there in the water. They cannot say. But here, in the Padma Purāṇa, Vedic literature, you get exact information how many species of living entities are there within the water. Everyone knows that there are living entities, full of living entities. We are catching fish, but small fishes. We have not seen. Even if we have seen the biggest fish, that is, whale... Sometimes they are as big as one big ship. But there are other fishes, we get information, they are called timiṅgila. The big fish, the whale fish, and timiṅgila means there is another big fish which swallows this timiṅgila, this whale just like anything.
As soon as it is finished, immediately the immigration department notifies: "Please get out. Please get out." Similarly, in other planets also, there are higher planetary systems where material comforts are many thousand times better than in your USA. Your United States is considered to have the best facilities, comfortable materialistic way of life. That is the calculation outside. So supposing that you have got the best facilities for material enjoyment. In higher planetary system there are many thousand times better facilities. You can go there. The living entities are therefore called sarva-gataḥ. A living entity can go anywhere he likes, but he requires qualification. Any country, when one is admitted, he must have visa, he must have passport, he must have required money to stay in a foreign country. So many rules and regulations are there. Similarly, in the higher planetary system also, where you get ten thousand years of duration of life, and their one year is far, far greater than ours. That is scientific.
We should know it. Unless we try to know it, simply we waste our time in frivolous activities, that is not proper utilization of human form of life. We are simply requesting people that "You don't waste your valuable time." Our time is so valuable. It has been calculated by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great politician, prime minister, in India, about three thousand years ago, when Candragupta was the emperor. It was about contemporary to Alexander the Great in the Greek history. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was there. He was a great diplomat. He has calculated the value of our life. He says... It is very practical. Anyone can calculate.
What to speak of four years; you cannot increase four seconds. So just try to understand how much our life is valuable. A second of our life we cannot purchase by paying millions of dollars. And if that second is wasted without any utilization, then how much money we are losing. This is the calculation.
So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is only to remind people that "Please do not waste your time, valuable time, life. Utilize it. This is the opportunity to make a solution of all the problems of life." There is means, there are ways, how to do it. That we are describing. Yesterday we discussed tapasā, by austerity; brahmacaryeṇa, by celibacy; śamena, by controlling the mind; damena, by controlling the senses; tyāgena, by giving in charity your money. That is called tyāga. Suppose you have got millions of dollars. Don't keep it. So long it is within your jurisdiction, spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Yes. That is the proper utilization.
The point is that you have to take the education. And strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. In India still the marriage takes place in equal family. The boy and the girl must be equally rich, equally cultured, equally educated. Equality. They find out. Even by horoscope, they test whether their astronomical calculations are also equal, so that after marriage they may not be unhappy. So many things, they are taken care of by the parents, and the marriage takes place. It is not that in youthful age the boy and girl mixes and... No. There are so many. But these things are now gone. So the point is that they were calculating especially to accept a girl from a family, they must be equal. But Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that if a girl is well qualified, strī-ratna... Strī-ratna means... Ratna means jewel. If a girl is just like jewel, very qualified, even she is born in low family, accept her. Nīcād apy uttamāṁ vidyāṁ strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api.
That nitya-līlā, as we have seen within this planet, Kṛṣṇa, that will come again. Just like we saw the sun in the daytime. Now it is not visible, but in due course of time, again we shall see; next morning we shall see sun. Similarly, we shall see again Kṛṣṇa, and that rotation takes place according to Vedic calculation after forty-three crores of years. That is the explanation we get from Vedic śāstra.
So Kṛṣṇa's līlā, it is not an invented, we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa as something imaginary, some artistic picture. No. It is nitya-līlā. Kṛṣṇa is fact. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. He's ādi. Advaitam acyutam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. Purāṇa-puruṣam. The oldest man. Purāṇa means oldest. Oldest, Purāṇa-puruṣam. Puruṣam means person. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. But whenever you'll see Kṛṣṇa, He's just a perfect young boy, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. You'll never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as He has become old, He has grown some big, big beard and... No. Kṛṣṇa, you'll never see.
Festival Lectures
And on the month of Phālguna, the full moon day, the full moon night is the appearance, or tithi, or occasion, for Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya appeared on the phālguni pūrṇimā. Pūrṇimā means full moon, and phālguni means the month which is called Phālguna, which is calculated from 15th February to 14th March.
So after the appearance of Lord Caitanya, there was great ceremony. All the inhabitants of Navadvīpa, His father, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's father, was not very rich man but was very respectable brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa community, especially in those days, five hundred years ago, the brāhmaṇa community, as a community, they were not very rich because they did not care for material opulence. That is the specific quality of brāhmaṇas.
That is purified sense. The example, the vivid example, is Arjuna. Arjuna was not willing to fight to satisfy his senses. He thought, "If I do not kill my brother or nephews or my grandfather or my teacher, the other side, that will make me happy. If they are killed, then where is my happiness?" This is material calculation, because he was giving more importance to the material body, what is his brother, what is his grandfather or teacher? He was seeing the material. Just like what is our calculation? I am thinking somebody my friend and another body as my enemy. Why? Because I make distinction on the bodily platform. I say, "American? Oh, they are my friends. Russians? They are my enemies." Why? What is the platform of this distinction? The platform is body. Because one has got the Russian body by some way or other, another bod..., has got American body, I am making distinction.
Of course, how far it is true, that is to be judged by you, but I have read this information in a Christian book, Aquarian Gospel. So if we take this incidence that Lord Jesus Christ also went to Jagannātha temple, then from historical point of view it is two thousand years old. But it is, according to our calculation, it is more than three thousand years old. So this Indradyumna king, he asked Viśvakarma to carve the deity of Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadra. And there was a time limit. Viśvakarma made an agreement that "Unless I finish the deity's carving very nicely, you cannot see me." So door was closed, and the king was very much anxious to see the temple is established very soon. So he forcibly opened the door, and he saw that the deities were half finished. The Deity Jagannātha as you see, it appears half finished. The king decided, "Never mind it is half finished. I shall install these deities in the temple."
Perhaps some of you who have gone there, they know there is a very, very old temple, according to modern calculation, not less than two thousand years old. There is the Jagannātha Deity. The King was very much anxious to establish a temple of Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadrā, but there was a contract between the sculptor and the King that the sculptor would go on working in closed door and the King should not disturb him. But when many days passed the King felt, "What this worker is doing?" So he forcefully opened the door, and he saw that the sculptor could not finish the Deity. So this form of Jagannātha, Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadrā, was unfinished. They were going under construction, carving, but the King forcibly opened the door. Therefore the King said, "I shall worship this unfinished Deity. Never mind." So this Jagannātha you see in this form because King Indradyumna wanted to worship Him in that form.
He is the origin of everything. Therefore the knowledge of perfection is also coming from Him, and periodically-periodically means after millions and millions of years—Kṛṣṇa comes. He comes once in a day of Brahmā. So Brahmā's days, even one day, the span of one day, it is very difficult to calculate. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). The Brahmā's one day means about 433,000,000's of years. So in each day of Brahmā, Kṛṣṇa comes, once in a day. That means after a period of 433,000,000's of years He comes. Why? To give perfect knowledge of life, how a human being should live to make his life perfect. So the Bhagavad-gītā is there, spoken by Kṛṣṇa in this millennium, in this day. Now Brahmā's one day we are passing through the twenty-eighth millennium. No, twenty-eighth... In Brahmā's day there are seventy-one Manus, and one Manu lives for... That is also many millions of years, seventy-two millenniums.
Now Brahmā's one day we are passing through the twenty-eighth millennium. No, twenty-eighth... In Brahmā's day there are seventy-one Manus, and one Manu lives for... That is also many millions of years, seventy-two millenniums.
So we are not interested now about calculation the perfect knowledge. This perfect knowledge comes from God, or Kṛṣṇa, and it is distributed by paramparā system, by disciplic succession. The example is just there, a mango tree. On the top of the mango tree there is a very ripened fruit, and that fruit has to be tasted. So if I drop the fruit from up, it will be lost. Therefore it is handed over, after one, after one, after... Then it comes down. So all Vedic process of knowledge is taking from the authority. And it comes down through disciplic succession. Just like I have already explained, Kṛṣṇa gives the knowledge, perfect knowledge, to Brahmā, and Brahmā gives the knowledge to Nārada. Nārada gives the knowledge to Vyāsa.
That is in your front, you can see every day, every night, how many lokas and planets are there. But you cannot go there. You are simply trying to go to the nearest planet. That is also failure. So what is your scientific improvement? But there is possibility. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān. You can go. The material scientists' calculation is that if one goes forward for forty thousands of years in the light speed, light-year speed, then one can approach the topmost planet of this material world. So at least in the modern scientific calculation, it is impossible. But one can go; there is process. That we have tried to explain in our small booklet Easy Journey to Other Planets. By yogic process one can go any planet he likes. That is the yogic perfection. When a yogi becomes perfect, he can go to any planet he likes, and the yoga practice goes on, unless the yogi thinks himself that he has made himself perfect to travel to any planet he likes. That is perfection of yoga practice.
So Guru Mahārāja said, "Yes, you can talk whatever you like." So she said, "I want to talk with you secretly, not in the presence of everyone." Guru Mahārāja said, "No. I cannot talk with you secretly. You can talk in the presence of my all other disciples." So even that girl was just like his granddaughter by age calculation, he refused to talk with a young woman in a secret place. These are the instances.
So in his life he was akhaṇḍa brahmacārī. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura had many other sons, and he was the fifth son. And some of his other brother also, they did not marry. And my Guru Mahārāja, he also did not marry. From the childhood he is strict brahmacārī, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. And he underwent very severe penances for starting this movement, worldwide movement. That was his mission.
And Yamunā, out of His fear, she agreed to the proposal of Balarāma. And the next incarnation is Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha, He decried the Vedic principles. Therefore He is calculated as atheist. Anyone who does not agree with the Vedic principles, he is considered as atheist. Just like one who does not believe in the Bible, they are called heathens, similarly, those who do not accept the Vedic principles, they are called atheists. So Lord Buddha although incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He said that "I do not believe in Vedas." What was the reason? The reason was to save the poor animals. At that time people were sacrificing the poor animals under the plea of Vedic sacrifice. So demonic persons, they want to do something under the protection of authority. Just like a big lawyer takes the protection of the lawbook and he makes the law unlawful.
"Oh, who will accept these Vaiṣṇava rules and regulations? These people are after meat and wine and illicit sex, and how they will accept it?" I was hopeless: "How they will chant?" You see? So by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at least, I am hopeful that this movement can be accepted by anyone. It is not so hopeless as I thought. But apart from my calculation, you are realizing. This movement should be pushed on. Just like great souls always think of the poor souls, similarly, you should also feel. That is the way. Lord Jesus Christ, he also prayed for the sinful persons. So this is very good. If we struggle hard to push this movement, then, even we, you don't get any follower, Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. And our business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Bhakti means one has to engage his all senses for the satisfaction. Material life means sense satisfaction for his self: "I like this. I like this.
Eleven o'clock is existing somewhere. In India it is eleven o'clock, somewhere else it is ten o'clock, and when in India it will be twelve o'clock that eleven o'clock will be somewhere else. Therefore one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, you take, that is going on. It is not that one is finished. That is material calculation. Material calculation, this body we have got. When this body will be finished it is finished forever. It will never come. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as finished. Nitya-līlā. Nitya-mukta. We have to understand that. In the material world, one minute's lost, it is lost forever.
So if the child is born at ten o'clock and I am asking at eleven o'clock, the one hour life of the child lost. Eleven o'clock means child has already died one hour out of his one hundred years.
So for Vaiṣṇava it is not like that. It is not like that. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is material calculation: one hour lost, two hours lost, body's life is transient..., it is losing one moment, one hour. But spiritual life is different. Nityaḥ śāśvato yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. So, as Kṛṣṇa comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). Kṛṣṇa is eternal, but still, He appears. The same example. Just like the sun is in the sky but we see in the morning it appears; in the evening it retires. That is defectness of our eyes. Actually the sun is always there. So similarly Vaiṣṇava, as Kṛṣṇa comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava means the confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa, he also comes for some purpose by the order of the master.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Uncivilized, then civilized. In this way there is a gradation. So this happiness, sense gratification, that is already there. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. The sense gratification is there in different bodies, but the standard may be different. Standard means our calculation; otherwise, the standard is also the same. The sex life between dogs and sex life between human beings, the pleasure is the same. There is no change. There is no change. You don't think that when the dogs on the public street enjoy sex life their standard is lesser than our sex life in a very nice decorated apartment, and so many things, nice dress, nice bedding. No. The pleasure is the same. Just like if one has got typhoid fever. It is not that the poor man will suffer more than the rich man. No. The fever temperature is the same. The doctor, after taking temperature, he will say the temperature is the same.
Initiation Lectures
This age is called Vaivasvata Manu. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that first of all this initiation was given by Kṛṣṇa to Vaivasvata, and he instructed his son, whose name is Vaivasvata Manu. So Vaivasvata Manu, by calculation we can understand forty millions of years ago... So this is not a new system that we are introducing or manufacturing by our concocted imagination, but it is authorized, coming down by disciplic succession from time immemorial. It may be that in this country it is being introduced for the last two or three years, but this system is the oldest system, oldest system, just like we are nityaḥ śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the soul is eternal and Purāṇa. Purāṇa means the oldest. Purāṇa. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is also said, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyam purāṇa-puruṣam (Bs. 5.33).
The beautiful girls are called goddess of fortune. Actually, woman is considered as goddess of fortune, representative of goddess of fortune. We are misusing for sense gratification. No. They should be respected as goddess of fortune. If one man has got nice wife, actually he has got goddess of fortune. That is astrological calculation. A man is considered to be fortunate in three ways. If he has got good wife then he is fortunate. If he has got good son then he is fortunate. And if he has got plenty money he is fortunate. So these three standards of fortune, out of which, one who has got good wife, he is the most fortunate. So our society will try to make good wives so that the boys, all boys, should, can think himself always fortunate. If one has got good wife, any place, doesn't matter. Either under... Just like Lord Śiva, he was living underneath the tree. There is no shelter, but he had the good wife, Pārvatī, so he was happy. So whenever you like, we shall select any brahmacārī.
Yes. Now this function, this ceremony which is going on, it is not a material ceremony. Material ceremony, of course... Just like in our country there are so many pūjās, satyanārāyaṇa-kathā, like that. Their aim is to gain some material profit. So that kind of function is not this initiation. Here there is no question of gaining any material profit. Here the process is to become purified and become eligible to enter into the kingdom of God. That is the aim. Not that "By initiation, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, now my income is one hundred dollars. I will get one thousand dollars." No. There is no question of dollar calculation. It is no mammon's philosophy. It is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. So then next?
Āstikyam means to believe firmly in the scriptures. Just like Bhagavad-gītā we are studying, or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We should firmly believe what Kṛṣṇa says, not interpretation. This is called āstikyam. And nāstikyam means not firm belief, atheism. Just like Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha simply said that "I don't believe in the Vedas." Therefore he is immediately calculated as atheist, nāstikyam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika: "The followers of Buddha, they did not accept Vedic, I mean to say, direction; therefore they are nāstika." What is that Vedic direction? In the Dāsavatāra-stotra by Jayadeva Gosvāmī, he says, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. In the śruti, in the Vedas, there is prescription of sacrifice, and in some of the sacrifice there is recommendation for sacrifice of some animals, goats. So that is... But Lord Buddha says, "No. I want to introduce nonviolence, no animal killing. So even there is Veda, prescription, I don't accept Vedas." Therefore he became nāstika.
Wedding Ceremonies
So this lust affair, this attraction, was little bit controlled. The father, the parents of the girl, and the parents of the boy would select. They had no personal selection. And that selection was made very scientifically, taking the horoscope of the girl, taking the horoscope of the boy, and calculating, "How this boy and girl will amalgamate? How their lives will be happy?" So many things, they were considered. And when everything was settled, then the marriage would take place. That is the system of old Indian, Vedic principle. And so far free love is concerned, as we understand, that was allowed only very in high circles, princely order. Because the girls were educated and grown up and she was given to select her husband, but not directly. We find in so many historical evidences from the Vedic literature that the girl used to express her desire that "I want to marry with that boy," and the father... This was amongst the kṣatriyas, the princely order, not with others.
General Lectures
So many things are going on wonderfully due to the presence of the spirit soul. Similarly, all this nature's work is going on so wonderfully due to the presence of God, the Supersoul. This is understanding of the material nature. Then God, living entity, material nature, and then time. Time is eternal. There is no past, present, and future. It is my calculation, according to... That is relativity. That is the modern scientific proposition by Professor Einstein. Your time and my time, he has also stated that the time factor in the higher planets are different. In the higher planet the time factor—our six months makes their one day. Just like our so many yugas makes twelve hours of Brahmā. So time is according to the different object. But time is eternal. Actually, there is no past, present, future, or limitation. This is understanding of time. So God, living entity, material nature, time, and the activities. What are these activities? The activities are not eternal; they are temporary.
So how do you test one's greatness? Next point. If you say that "This man is very great," now there must be an understanding how you estimate that he is great. These are different stages of understanding. So how do you understand that God is great? What is your calculation, that from, on this point, God is great? Just like in your Bible it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? Is it not statement? So here is greatness. He simply said, "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Can you do that? Suppose you are very nice carpenter. Can you say, "Let there be a chair," and at once there is a chair? Is it possible? Suppose you are manufacturer of this watch. Can you say that "I say, let there be watch," and there is immediately watch? That is not possible. Therefore God's name is satya-saṅkalpa. Satya-saṅkalpa. Satya-saṅkalpa means whatever He thinks, immediately it is present.
We are publishing one article, "Dr. Frog." Dr. Frog means... Perhaps you know, everyone. The frog lives in a well. That is only a few feet. And one, another frog, he's giving information to his friend in the well, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast water, Atlantic Ocean." But this frog has never seen Atlantic Ocean. He's calculating, "It may be so much big. It may be so much big. It may be so much big." So how this infinity can be calculated by the frog? So those who are calculating infiniteness of this tiny soul, they're all Dr. Frogs. You are not infinite. You are finite. How you can be infinite? You can be infinite only when you dovetail yourself with the infinite. Individually you are finite. That is the position, real position. In the Bhagavad-gītā in the Fifteenth Chapter... You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So did you not read this verse in the Fifteenth Chapter, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7)? Have you read this? That "These living entities, they're My parts and parcels, fragmental parts." So you are... God is infinite.
Just like when fire is covered, you'll feel heat on the covering, but you cannot see the fire directly. Similarly, this spiritual spark is covered by his material dress; therefore we cannot see. The doctor says, "Oh, the bodily function has failed; therefore heart has failed. He is dead." But why heart fails he does not know. There is no medical science, calculated. They will say so many reasons, that "Because the blood corpuscles, red corpuscles has ceased to function, it has become white; therefore it is..." No. This is not right answer. The blood can be made red... Or redness is not life. There are many natural product which is red by nature. That does not mean there is life. So this argument, that red corpuscles have ceased; therefore life has ceased—no. There are so many arguments and counterarguments.
Actually this movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. At least five thousand years ago the movement was presented by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. From this Bhagavad-gītā we can understand that this system of consciousness was spoken by Him long, long before—He imparted to the sun-god Vivasvān. That calculation goes to show that before the repetition of the Bhagavad-gītā in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, it was once before explained at least forty million years ago. So this movement is not at all new. It is coming down from disciplic succession, and in India from all great leaders of the Vedic society like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, and lately, about 480 years ago, Lord Caitanya. The principle is still being followed today. This Bhagavad-gītā is also very widely persued in all parts of the world by great scholars, philosophers, and religionists. But in most cases the principle is not followed as it is.
In the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find. It is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The definition of God is given there, and the qualification of God is given there, that He instructed Brahma. Brahmā is calculated to be the prime personality within this universe, but he was also instructed by God. Tene brahma, ādi-kavi. Ādi-kavi. Ādi-kavi means the first man, the first man of knowledge. So you may question that "In the creation, first, there was only one living creature, Brahma. Then where he went to take lessons? Who instructed him? There was no other living creature." That is also another qualification of God. God created. That also you know. You have read in your Bible. God created, but He is not one of the created beings. He created. Therefore, before creation, He was there. It is to be concluded. Before creation of this cosmic manifestation, He was existing.
This knowledge is in full because Kṛṣṇa consciousness teaches all these things, what is God, what you are, and then what is this nature, beyond the nature, what other things are there. Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they do not know. They are frogs of the well, simply calculating, "This three feet, water, space, is my habitation." And when he's given information of the Atlantic Ocean, he does not believe. "Oh, there is Atlantic Ocean? What is that nonsense?" "Oh, it is very, very big," somebody says. He's simply calculating his well water. "Oh, it may be four foot?" "No, very big." "All right, ten feet? How...?" He's calculating, this. These materialistic scientists, they are simply speculating like the frog in the well. They do not know; neither they have means. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person knows. He gets information from Kṛṣṇa.
Just like in your country the chief man is the president, Mr. Nixon, similarly, in this universe the chief man is Lord Brahmā. And in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, Brahmā's age you cannot calculate even one day. He's living so long a duration of life. But he's not independent. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya (Bs. 5.48). His life, his duration life, although so long, still, it is said that that life is only a breathing period of Lord Mahā-Viṣṇu. Niśvasita-kālam. Just like we are breathing, exhaling and inhaling, coming out and again taking. So when Mahā-Viṣṇu exhales, all the universes coming, and when He inhales, it goes again within. And the duration of Brahma's life you can calculate.
That description you'll get in Vedic literature sufficiently, how great He is. Don't be satisfied simply by understanding that God is great. That's nice, but as far as possible try to understand how great He is. Then you will not accept any cheap God. Otherwise you'll simply speculate on frog philosophy. You know that frog philosophy? He's calculating the length and breadth of Atlantic Ocean from the small well. Somebody's saying there is Atlantic Ocean, very great, and the frog has never seen the Atlantic Ocean. He is always in the well. He says, "How great? It is three feet? It may be ten feet?" "No, sir, it is very great." "All right. Hundred feet." "No, it is very great." "All right. Thousand feet." So go on. Where is the comparison of Atlantic Ocean within the well? (chuckling) So these rascals are calculating, speculating about God, how great He is by three feet, six feet, or ten feet, or hundred feet, thousand feet, like that. But He is greater than all your calculation, all your measurement. Avāṅ-mānasa-gocaraḥ.
So these rascals are calculating, speculating about God, how great He is by three feet, six feet, or ten feet, or hundred feet, thousand feet, like that. But He is greater than all your calculation, all your measurement. Avāṅ-mānasa-gocaraḥ. You cannot calculate how He's great. Simply you accept His greatness and surrender. That's your business. You just calculate yourself. Your infinitesimal identity is very small. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadha kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Just divide the tip of your hair (in) ten thousand parts, and that one part is your identification, spiritual measurement.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says that don't be falsely proud. Just become submissive. Namanta eva. Namanta. Namanta means submissive, meek. Lord Jesus Christ also advised, "Those who are meek, the kingdom of God is for them." Is it not? So that's very nice qualification, to become humble and meek.
Is it not? So that's very nice qualification, to become humble and meek. Don't try to imitate falsely, "I am God." That is simply rascaldom. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also advised that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Giving up the false speculation of understanding God in your calculation, just become humble and meek. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. And try to hear about God from realized souls—from Kṛṣṇa or His bona fide representative. That is very nice qualification. Simply hear. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. In this way you remain in your position, try to understand how great is God through the authoritative sources, and your life will be so successful that one day you'll find God is within your hand. It is so nice thing. Just like you keep a child within your hand, just Mother Yaśodā kept Kṛṣṇa within his (her) arms always, you'll also have a similar position simply by hearing about Him.
So we have discussed this point in our small book Easy Journey to Other Planets. So there is life in other planet, there is standard of living.
Now, in the moon planet we understand the duration of life is ten thousands of years according to our calculation. Scientifically, everything is relative. Just like nowadays, formerly, to come to your country it would take two months from India on the surface. And now the airplane is there, we come within one day, within fifteen hours or twenty hours. So everything is relative. Just like the sputnik. The sputnik surrounded, circumambulated the earth in one hour, twenty-five minutes, three times. That means by the sputnik speed, the three days... To circumambulate the earth three times means three day and night. That means according to our calculation, seventy-two hours. That seventy-two hours was finished in one hour and twenty-five minutes. How? Because the thing is relative.
If you accelerate your speed, the whole thing becomes relative. So what is seventy-two hours on this planet, just above this planet, say about a few thousand miles up it becomes one hour twenty-five minutes. Similarly, when we speak of that in other planet the life is ten thousand years, that ten thousand years is in our calculation on this planet. But on their calculation, the same hundred years. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll learn, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Kṛṣṇa is instructing Arjuna that our one thousand yugas... One yuga, one aggregate of yuga, according to our, this planet's calculation, it is forty-three hundred thousands of years. So that multiplied by one thousand becomes twelve hours of that planet. So there are different calculation according to different planet, different situation. But there is life. Don't think that this planet is finished, that "Oh, this life is finished."
Therefore if you have spoiled that point of time without any utility, then you have spent at least many millions of dollars for nothing. That should be our calculation. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ sa cen nirarthakaṁ nītiḥ. If that valuable time is spoiled without any benefit, then just imagine how much you are losing every moment. So we should be very careful about our time. Don't spoil time. That is our request. Don't spoil time like animals. They have no responsibility because there is gradation. After this life, they get another life. After this life, they get another life. From aquatics they are promoted to the plant life. From plant life they are promoted to the insect life. From insect life they are promoted to the birds' life. Gradual evolution.
The Lord says that "This yoga system I first of all spoke to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate. Vivasvata means... The sun-god's name is Vivasvān. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhuḥ: (BG 4.1) "And Vivasvān, he explained this yoga system to his son Manu." Now, if we calculate the age of Manu, it comes to some millions. At least forty millions of years before, it was spoken.
So this yoga system, Bhagavad-gītā yoga system, is very popular book and widely circulated. I have seen many English translation of this Bhagavad-gītā in your country. Some of them are translated by American scholars, and some of them are translated by other countries, scholars. But there are many. But unfortunately, none of them have presented Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They have tried to exploit the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and put something of their own idea. This is the defect.
So my point is that, as stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this bodily concept of life is not very sanguine. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body, composition of several things like bones and skins and blood and urine and stool and secretions, so many things, that is not right calculation of self-realization. Of course, those who are too much engrossed with the bodily concept of life, they have been recommended to practice the haṭha-yoga system. That is also mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā. Just like you'll find in the "Sāṅkhya-yoga." This Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, as we have published, page number 153, there is a statement how one should practice this transcendental meditation. Verse number thirteen and fourteen, it is said, "One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line." This body, this body, this head, this neck, and the body, whole body, trunk, should be erect in a straight line, and stare steadily at the tip of the nose.
The next age, Tretā-yuga, when people used to live for ten thousands of years. The next age is called Dvāpara-yuga, when people used to live for one thousand years. Now it is called Kali-yuga, when people can live, utmost, one hundred years. These are the calculation of different ages.
So Vedic literature informs us that the meditation process was possible to be successful in the age which is called Satya-yuga, when people used to live for hundred thousands of years. The next age, Tretā-yuga, the self-realization process is offering sacrifices. And the next age, Dvāpara-yuga, when people used to live for one thousand years, the recommendation is temple worship or church worship, like that. But in this age the recommendation is kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Kalau. Kalau means in this age, when duration of life is very short. Actually, although officially the age is calculated that we can live for one hundred years, but nobody goes up to that limit. Most utterly, very old man means eighty years or eighty-five years.
Even in the lowest stage of life also, you'll find somebody is lesser. In any capacity, either in richness or in knowledge or in beauty or in strength—in so many things we have got. So everyone cannot be placed on the same level, not only materially, but also spiritually. If you say that "This higher status, lower status, are calculated in the material world; in the spiritual world there is no such distinction," that is partially true. In the spiritual world there is no such distinction, but that spiritual distinction is not exactly like material distinction. That distinction is of consciousness, varieties of consciousness. That distinction.
So in the higher status of life, when this distinction is not recognized or cannot be understood, that is called impersonal status, Brahman.
Yes. Similarly, moon planet also, the standard of living and duration of life, you get ten thousand years of life, and there one day equal to your six months. What you calculate as six months here according to the solar system, in the moon planet that six months equal to their one day. Similarly, thirty days, one month; twelve months, one year. Similarly, ten thousand years you get, life there. But there is death. Just like the small microbe; it has got life, say, for few minutes, and you have got life, say, for a hundred years. That does not mean that you are immortal and that the microbe is a mortal. Both of us. Similarly, there are, in other planets, the duration of life may be very, very, very long, but that does not mean that they will not die. The death is there. Death can be eradicated only when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka, or in the spiritual sky. Yad gatvā...
So as you see, actually it is packed up nice, two pounds of water, very nice... And so nicely packed. How it has happened? What is the explanation of the scientists? According to their calculation, there must be pipe. There must be pumping. Somebody must be pumping. Where are all these? Then is it legend? It is fact. Now you explain how it is happening. If you are scientist, you explain how it is happening. Or you do that. Simply observation will not do. You must make experiment. You make a log standing like that, keep anything, and the, it, water must go.
They are finding it difficult even to go to the moon planet, which is the nearest planet to the earth. And there are innumerable other planets. And the modern scientists calculate that the highest planet, if we want to go there, it will take the sputnik speed, which is running eighteen thousand miles per hour, in that speed if we go forty thousands of years, we can reach the highest planetary system within this material world. But so far the kingdom of God, which is called Vaikuṇṭhaloka, or sanātana-dhāma..., as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nya 'vyakta 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That is sanātana-dhāma. There is—we get this information from the Bhagavad-gītā—the kingdom of God, where everything is permanent. Within this material world, everything is nonpermanent, temporary.
That is the way of Vedic culture or Indian culture. Not that up to the last point of our death we shall stick to the worldly affairs. The Vedic culture divides the whole society into four social orders and four spiritual orders. The four social orders is division of intelligence. The most intelligent class of men are called the brāhmaṇas. And next than the brāhmaṇas are the kṣatriyas. It is all calculated on the basis of intelligence. There are different kinds of people all over the world on account of more or less intelligence. So brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men. The scientists, the poets, the philosophers, like that. The religionists, they are called brāhmaṇas. And the administrator class is called the kṣatriyas, and the productive class are called the vaiśyas, and the laborer class, or the working class, is called the śūdra. That is natural division.
One is coming from the sun-god, another coming from the moon-god. That is a long history, of course. But the point is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not new, something manufactured, concocted. It is the oldest because it is coming from sun-god, and taking it from Manu, it comes to the calculation, about forty millions of years ago.
Now, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means the essence of all religious principles. What is religious principle? Religious principle means to abide by the laws given by God. That is called religious principle, simple word. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: (SB 6.3.19) "Dharma means the codes and the laws given by God." That is dharma, or religion. Just like in our ordinary life we receive the laws from the state or the king. The word given by the king or the state is accepted as law, and everyone has to abide by the law.
So from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that even if we enter into the Brahmaloka, the highest planetary system of this universe, the four principles of miserable condition—birth, death, old age and disease—are there. We learn from Bhagavad-gītā that one daytime duration is millions of years of our calculation. That's a fact. So, but even though the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, which the scientists say it will take forty thousands of years to go there with the sputnik speed, but who is going there, traveling in the space forty thousands of years? But from the Vedic literature we can understand that any one of the planets we can enter, provided we prepare for that purpose.
Their father's income was twelve hundred thousands of rupees in those days. Now you can increase at least fifty times and then calculate what was the income of Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. But he left everything to join Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī also came from a very learned brāhmaṇa family. Similarly, Jīva Gosvāmī was the greatest scholar till now. Nobody can compete with Jīva Gosvāmī's scholarship in Sanskrit and philosophy. That is the verdict of all learned scholars. The world's best philosopher and Sanskrit scholar was Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. He happened to be the nephew of Rūpa Gosvāmī. When Jīva Gosvāmī's father and uncles left home, he was only ten years old boy. He thought, "If my father and uncles have left, why shall I not leave home?"
The past, present and future calculation is according to this body. That there are different calculation, it is scientifically proved—relativity, law of relativity. This world's past, present and future is different from the past, present, future of ordinary man. The ant's past, present and future is different from human being. So, this past, present and future is in relationship with this body. Actually, as we are eternal spirit soul, we have no past, present or future. Just like this child, he is playing. After a few years this age will be a past tense. Every one of us, we had also similar body, and that is now past tense. But I am this proprietor of the body. I remember that in such and such year I was a child like this, in such and such year I was a boy like this, in such and such year I was a young man like this. Therefore, "I" is eternal. I am eternal. This past and present and future is due to the change of body. Is it not a fact? I am the same, feeling; I am feelng same.
"Yes, millions and millions of times I also appeared, and you also appeared. The difference is that you do not remember, I remember." That is the difference between God and ordinary living being. Otherwise, qualitatively, God and the living entity the same. So only difference is that He is great, infinite. Therefore, we can not calculate His infinite qualities. But I, being infinitesimal, my qualities, my capacities, my energy, they are very infinitesimal. Therefore, I forget. And because I forget, therefore I cannot remember what was my body in my last birth. Because I cannot remember. Death means forget. Just like at night you forget everything, sleeping. Similarly, when this body is finished, we forget about this body. We are interested in the next body. So this forgetfulnss is the opposite number of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are trying to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are trying to get out of this conditional life of forgetfulness.
This, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started in your country. It is not a new manufactured thing, concocted thing. It is very old, because the Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means Bhagavad-gītā. Even from historical calculation, the Bhagavad-gītā was spoken at least five thousand years ago. So, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, even from historical calculation, at least five thousand years old. So, modern history of the world cannot give any chronological data of historical event more than three thousand years, but this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is still older, from prehistoric days. It is not new. Eternal. As I am eternal, God is eternal, this consciousness is also eternal. But because we have forgotten due to the covering of the illusory energy, we have to revive it.
And one who has got a spiritual master, expert in the Vedic knowledge, then his life is successful. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Therefore you must approach a spiritual master in order to understand that science. Samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the injunction. These things, how you can calculate by argument? Therefore they are called nāstika. Atheist means one who does not believe in the verdict of the Vedas. That is called atheist, atheist. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. Bauddha, the Buddhists... Buddhists, although they accept Lord Buddha as incarnation, but at the same time we accept them as nāstika, atheist. How Kṛṣṇa becomes atheist? But that is Kṛṣṇa's concern, but we have to study what He is doing. One side He is acting as atheist, that is His policy. That is also explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24), just to teach other atheists, he has become atheist.
Because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). In the beginning, He told this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god. And the sun-god transmitted this message to his son, vivasvān manave prāha, to his son, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. The age of Vaivasvata Manu calculating, it is about four hundred millions of years ago. Then manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. Manu, he explained this yoga system to Mahārāja Ikṣvāku. Mahārāja Ikṣvāku happened to be the forefathers of the kṣatriya family in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared. So Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, the yoga system explained in the Bhagavad-gītā was understood by the paramparā system.
So it is inexpensive. It is very simple, without any loss. Suppose you have got a picture of Kṛṣṇa and you simply think of the picture, man-manā, and you offer a little lamp, a little incense, and if you don't offer, if you simply offer your respect, what is your loss? Is there any loss? (break) We are all businessmen. We calculate everything in terms of loss and profit. So there is no loss. That's a fact. But if there is any profit, why don't you try it? If there is any profit... There is profit. These boys, these European and American boys who are with me, there are hundreds and thousands of them... They have sacrificed their life. Unless there is some profit... They are not fools. They are not coming of foolish parents or foolish nation. Unless there is some profit, how they are doing? There must be some profit. So without any investment of your money, without losing your time, if you get some spiritual profit, why don't you take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? That is our plea.
Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, they can understand. The spiritual world is described there, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). Bhāvaḥ means nature. There is another nature beyond this nature. We can see this nature up to the limit of the sky. The scientists, they're trying to go to the highest planet, but they are calculating it will take forty thousands of years. So who is going to live for forty thousands of years, go and come back? But there is planet. So we cannot calculate even the length and breadth of this material world, what to speak of the spiritual world. Therefore we have to know from authoritative sources. That authoritative source is Kṛṣṇa. Because we have already described, nobody is wiser or in knowledge than Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa gives this knowledge, that paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo (BG 8.20). "Beyond this material world there is another spiritual sky." There are also innumerable planets. And that sky is far, far greater than this sky. It is one-fourth only.
As already described by Śrīman Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja, that this bhāgavata-dharma was spoken by Bhagavān Himself. Bhagavān, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Bhaga-vān. It is a Sanskrit word. Bhaga means fortunes, and vān means one who possesses. These two words combined together makes the word Bhagavān, or the supreme fortunate. We calculate our fortune if somebody is very rich, if somebody is very strong, if somebody is very beautiful, if somebody is very wise, if somebody is in renounced order of life. In this way, there are six opulences, and these opulences, when one possesses in fullness, without any rivalry, he is called Bhagavān. The richest of all, the wisest of all, the most beautiful, the most famous, the most renounced—in this way, Bhagavān. And the bhāgavata also comes from the word bhaga. From bhaga, when it is used a participle objective, it becomes bhaga. So bhāgavata. The same thing, vān, this word is comes from the word vat, vat-śabda.
When it was needed to protect the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, He lifted a big hill, and since then His name is Giri-vara-dhārī. Giri-vara-dhārī means that hill, and He sustained that hill. He was at that time seven years old from material calculation.
But in the original Vṛndāvana there is no such thing as the wrath of Indra, the king of heaven, and danger or torrents of rain overflood, inundation. There is no such thing. There everything is blissful, transcendental and eternal. Here we have got a little sample, because whatever you have got in this material world, that is simply imitation, a shadow of the original. Sometimes... You can understand that on the desert sometimes it appears there is a vast ocean of water, mirage. But actually there is no water. Those who are animals, they sometimes are misled.
Mr. President, Rotarians, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly inviting me to speak before you on the subject matter "The Present Need of the Human Society." At the present day... According to our Vedic calculation, this is called Kali-yuga. Kali means disagreement and fighting, kālaḥ. So in this age, a slight disagreement will cause some fighting, some misunderstanding. And practically, this is the age of misguidance; therefore it is called Kali-yuga. So in different Purāṇas, the symptoms of Kali-yuga is described. Śāstra. Śāstra means tri-kāla-jña. Śāstra is not ordinary book. Therefore our Vedic literatures are known as apauruṣeya, "not written by ordinary human being." Ordinary human being, who is called, according to śāstra, conditioned souls, they are conditioned by so many, nature's law.
So... Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. Formerly, there were divisions. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The four social divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And they were calculated according to guṇa and karma, quality and work. Brāhma ṇa means he must be truthful, he must be very clean. Satya śaucam. He must be controlling his mind, controlling his senses. Śamo damas titikṣa. He must be tolerant. Titikṣa ārjava. He must be simple. Ārjava, jñānam. He must have full knowledge. Vijñānam, practical application in life. Vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to accept the Vedic principle as truth. That is called āstikyam. Theism. It is translated as "theism," but it is not. Āstika, āstikya means to have firm faith in the Vedic instruction. That is called āstikyam. But that is a fact. What is stated in the Vedas, they are true.
Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa the description is there what are the different forms of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni. In the water there are 900,000 forms of life. Who knows that? But in the Vedic śāstra everything perfectly calculated is given there. This is called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means perfect knowledge. There is no (indistinct) who can calculate how many forms of life are within the ocean. But from the Vedic literature you get just exact conclusion—900,000 species of life. The botanists, they cannot say how many forms of trees and plants are there. But in the Vedas you'll find sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati—2,000,000's forms of life, of trees and plants. Sthāvara. Sthāvara means the living entities which cannot move, stand in one place. This is a punishment, those who are too much dull. Means..., dull means cannot understand what is God. That is dullness.
So if we calculate the age of Manu, it comes to the point of forty millions of years. So Kṛṣṇa said that forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god, Vivasvān. The name of the predominating deity in the sun planet is Vivasvān. His son, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu... His son, Ikṣvāku, the original person in the dynasty Sūrya-vaṁśa, in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Ikṣvāku... So in this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming since a very, very long time. But Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2): "Formerly the rājarṣis, they used to receive this instruction through the chain of disciplic succession." That was the way of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. But Kṛṣṇa said, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭo parantapa. Now Kṛṣṇa, five thousand years ago, when Kṛṣṇa was talking with Arjuna in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, he was perplexed whether to fight or not to fight, and just to enthuse him in the fighting, He spoke this Bhagavad-gītā five thousand years ago to Arjuna.
There is no distinction. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is this. Yei bhaje sei baḍa, abhakta hīna chāra (CC Antya 4.67). Anyone who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, yei bhaje, who is engaged in devotional service of Lord Kṛṣṇa, yei bhaje se baḍa, he is big. Our calculation of big, small, not by the caste system. Yei bhaje: "Anyone who worships or who is engaged in devotional service of the Lord..." There is no particularly any person or any society or any caste or any nation is said. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yei bhaje se baḍa. Yei bhaje sei baḍa, abhakta hīna chāra. And one who is not a devotee, he is the lowest and abominable.
So the point is Bhagavad-gītā is well known all over the world. Not now... Because we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā through this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and millions of people are interested... We have got so many books, and the calculation is already submitted. They are accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement through literature, and big, big scholars, professors, librarian, they are purchasing our books very nicely. The total collection daily is five to six lakhs of rupees. So now this Kṛṣṇa movement is being appreciated all over the world. Unfortunately, although Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in this land of Bhāratavarṣa, Chandigarh, the Kurukṣetra, we do not allow Kṛṣṇa to speak. This is our misfortune. Kṛṣṇa spoke these words of Bhagavad-gītā. Many scholars, many so-called saintly persons, they have misinterpreted the words of Bhagavad-gītā. They did not allow to speak Kṛṣṇa. They wanted to speak on behalf of Kṛṣṇa... Not on behalf of Kṛṣṇa.
You have read in the Bhagavad-gītā. He submitted his proposition, that "How can I kill my..., the other side? They are my brothers, and if the brothers are dead, my sister-in-laws will be widow and they will be polluted, and there will be varṇa-saṅkara. And so..." These things are facts, but Kṛṣṇa says that "You are simply taking calculation of the body. Body. You have no spiritual calculation. The life is meant for spiritual understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā. But you have no such understanding. You have no such knowledge, and still you are speaking." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man, but My dear friend, you are not learned." He said in a different way. Agatāsūn. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Because this body... You are thinking in terms of bodily relationship, but a paṇḍita, a learned scholar... Actually he is learned scholar when he does not lament for this body, either alive or dead." This is the first instruction. This body is already dead.
We are calculating of loss and gain. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that "Even one moment of our life, if it is lost, then you cannot get it back even by paying hundreds and thousands of dollars." One moment of this day, if it is lost, you cannot get it back by paying hundreds and thousands of dollars. So if the moments of your life is spent uselessly, then how much loss you are suffering, you just imagine. Therefore our request is that we have got this valuable life, human form of life, bahu-sambhavānte, after many, many births in the evolutionary process. Now we should try to understand what is Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Don't spoil it otherwise. And that brahma-jijñāsā and answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Bhagavad-gītā instruction is given just to bring you back to Brahman consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not this bodily consciousness.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz. Leibnitz was a great mathematician. He invented the calculus. But he was also a philosopher. He said that in the universe every act is purposeful; that the purpose of the universe is to realize the goals set forth by God.
Prabhupāda: Very nice. I see that he's first-class. Yes. Actually the aim is to reach God. That is the Bhāgavata version: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, fools, they do not know that the goal is to reach God. This version, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means they are hoping something which is never to be realized. All these people... (break) Actually this is the point: surrender. But they are so rascal they will not do it; therefore māyā is giving them trouble in every way, ultimately. Just like my Guru Mahārāja's plan was that I should come and preach. That was his first instruction. But I wanted that I will not take sannyāsa and remain as a gṛhastha, and then I shall do it. That is special favor. Kṛṣṇa says, yasya anugṛhnī harisye... "Especially if I am very much anxious to get one reformed, by My mercy, the first thing is that I take away all his money."
Śyāmasundara: Because there is also a truth that snow is white, they say snow is white, but that truth is not absolute because snow could be red also. But a triangle must always equal 180 degrees. That is an absolute truth, a necessary truth.
Prabhupāda: So any mathematical calculation is like that. Why this example? Mathematical means this: Two plus two equals four. That is always the truth.
Śyāmasundara: He is trying to prove that there are certain truths that we cannot deny they exist independent of our knowledge. Fundamental. And there are other truths that people say, like snow is white, which may not be true because our senses deceive us.
Prabhupāda: That is your defective senses. But snow is white, that's a fact. Why should it be red? At least we have no experience with red snow.
Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Nature is not working mechanically. There is a plan. The sun is rising exactly according to calculation. Calculation not first; first of all sun rises. But we get experience than in such-and-such season the sun rises at such-and-such time, so in that season, exactly to the minute, to the second, the sun rises. So it is neither chance nor whimsical. There is a plan. There is a plan.
Śyāmasundara: Could it not be said that that is mechanical...
Prabhupāda: Who made this mechanical? As soon as you bring the question of mechanical, there must be a brain who set up the machine. Mechanical means, just like your, what is that, telex is working. That is mechanical. That's all right. But behind this machine. there is a big brain who has made this possible. Now you are seeing at the present moment that by pushing one button you get your business done, mechanically, but who made this machine.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Dirt... You are calculating ten millions—it may be ten years. Because you cannot give history of the human society more than three thousand years, so how you speak of ten millions, twenty millions? Where you were there? It is all imagination. You were existing(?), so existence was not there. How can you say that ten millions, twenty millions these things happened? This is simply imagination. In that way everyone can imagine and say some nonsense. Everyone can imagine their own way. I can say "No, it is not ten millions. It is fifty millions."
Śyāmasundara: They have a scientific way of testing that things disintegrate at a certain rate.
Prabhupāda: But here is a scientist, and he does not agree with that.
Prabhupāda: But if first of all you give account for eight million species—you have no account. We say these are the fixed-up species. But your calculation of species, first of all give us account for eight millions, then you say, "The list is not complete."
Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that there's constant...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, within that eight millions, but you cannot give us list.
Śyāmasundara: They say that there is new species always evolving.
Prabhupāda: That is not new. That is within the eight millions. You could not find the same thing, you could not find, before that; now we are finding. Your species, you could (not) give us a complete list. What is the evolutionary process wherefrom it began and how it's coming? You cannot give any fixed-up list.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is childish. That is childish. Just like I have seen the phenomena, without man there cannot be singing. In the box there must be one man there. This is childish calculation, that's all. Phenomenal study means childish. A fan, in our childhood we will think that a fan is running, there must be some ghost who is running it. So this sort of phenomenal study is not scientific study. It is not scientific. (If) we don't find the original cause, that is not scientific.
Karandhara: That's what they're looking for. But because they can't produce a satisfactory answer, they have to say, "Well, we're not looking for that." They can't come forward with an answer.
Śyāmasundara: ...research. They found that atomic particles vibrate at a certain frequency, a certain rate of vibration, and that elements such as lead, iron, all the different chemical elements, disintegrate gradually. The atomic particles vibrate out of the element and change the structure of the element gradually, and this is a constant—what they call—life of the element, and the constant number of years before it disintegrates into some other element. So this life they have measured, and they have a table or a chart, and by this half-life formula they can determine how old a rock is by how quickly the isotopes are disintegrating. So according to their calculation, the layers of the earth go down for many millions of years; and in those lower layers, millions of years old, there is either no form of life or very, very simple forms of life only. There is no evidence of any complex forms.
Prabhupāda: Bolo... (Bengali—to Svarūpa Dāmodara)
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is coming by śruti, by hearing. Just like Vyāsadeva heard from Nārada, Nārada heard from Brahmā, millions and millions of years ago. If you take, according to our calculation, Brahmā's age, Brahmā's one day we cannot calculate. It is now some, so many millions of years past, and still it is not even Brahmā's one day. So many millions of years. Because in Brahmā's one day seventy-two..., fourteen, fourteen Manus come and go. And each Manu's age is seventy-two millennium. One millennium means 4,300,000's of years. So such seventy-two millennium makes complete one Manu's life, and there are fourteen Manus in Brahmā's one day. So millions and trillions and billions of years, that is not very astonishing to us, because it is not even one day of Brahmā. That Brahmā was born, and intelligent philosophy is still existing from the date of Brahmā's birth. Brahmā was first educated by God. That is our calculation. So we get in the Vedas such intelligent information; therefore we understand that our forefather was very, very learned(?).
Prabhupāda: Yes. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. After one day of Brahmā there is devastation. So Brahmā lives for one hundred years according to his calculation. So each day there is devastation. So so many devastation passes in one month of Brahmā, then such twelve months makes one year, and such hundred years will be. So there is no calculation of devastation, how many devastations. In Brahmā's one day it is calculated 5,400 Manus are born in one month of Brahmā. So our calculation is like that. We are not very much amazed of hearing millions and trillions. It is nothing. In our historical reference is billions and trillions of years. They are nothing.
Prabhupāda: "All right, take it." He's unknown, but simply he comes and says that "I dropped one bundle here which does not belong to you. By mistake I dropped it," and I say, "Yes. So many bundles there are, you can take whatever is yours." This was the transaction. Then on the due payment day, those who supplied the cloths, they come to take payment and they say, "Sir, on such and such day, such and such cloth was supplied to you." No voucher, nothing. I open my book: "Yes, yes. That's all right." So he says that "This is the price and so much money is due payment." So he calculates, "Yes." So he pays the money and then, when taking money, he puts a stamp and he signs on the book. Now in the meantime, so many transactions we'll see, how much faithfully it was going on. So how much we have now became degraded: we supply something to somebody, we take three copies of voucher; one he takes, one we keep on book, one he gives (indistinct); then also he will try also, cheat, again. So much morally we have improved. I am speaking, say within, when I am child's age, now I am seventy-six. I may be fourteen, fifteen years old, like that. Fifty years ago these things were going on. Fifty or sixty. Sixty years ago the business dealings was so easy and plain.
Śyāmasundara: They say that our planet, along with all of the other stars and bodies in this universe, is about five billion years old. They have calculated in several ways. One of the ways they have calculated the age of our oceans to be five billion, and the age of our oldest rocks, along with the way that the stars are distributing themselves, that they must be five billion years old. (break) Could you repeat that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I want to record it.
Prabhupāda: The Western philosophers and historians, in order to support Darwin's theory of anthropology, has never agreed to accept that the Vedic literatures written long, long years ago, but these less intelligent philosophers and theologists, their theory has been also dismantled by the discovery of this Ajanta Cave. From that cave it was very, very intelligent; as they are excavating other part, simply studying the bones. But there is other side also, this is also excavation; and it can be proved that very intelligent persons were there.
Prabhupāda: The..., everything is calculated at the time of death. That is nature's process. That I was talking in the morning, that these boys, they are too much addicted to these water sports. Twenty-four hours they are indulging in this water sport. They are creating a mentality to become aquatic animal. So naturally, at the time of death, he will think of all these things and nature will give him a body. Yes. That you cannot check. After death you are completely under nature's control. You cannot dictate. That these rascal do not understand. Therefore they, "Finish this business. There is no life after death. That's all."
Hayagrīva: Now how was it that a great personality like Indra, with his mind, intelligence, and ego all intact, how is it he could become a toad?
Śyāmasundara: He has seven measurements for happiness. He calls it the hedonistic calculus, how to evaluate happiness according to seven principles. One is intensity, how intense is the pleasure in question? Two, duration, how long can a certain pleasure be expected to last? Three, certainty, how much can we depend upon a certain experience to produce the expected pleasure? Four, remoteness, how immediate or remote is the anticipated pleasure? Five, fecundity, how many future pleasures will result and will each pleasure terminate in pain? Six, purity, how free is the pleasure from painful elements? Seven, extent, how many other persons can share the pleasure?
Prabhupāda: This is a very nice definition. We accept it, this standard, but if you put material happiness and test by this standard, there is no happiness. There is no happiness. Therefore the conclusion should be, if we test with this acid test of happiness, it is impossible to get happiness in the material world. There is no question of happiness. These testing points are nice but as soon as we put any kind of happiness to this test, you will find it is failed.
Prabhupāda: This method of studying the cause, so we take the ultimate cause of everything, with His full independence. The ultimate cause can do anything and everything beyond our calculation. There is cause, but the cause is so powerful that it is beyond our calculation how it is being done. Our knowledge is limited; therefore our calculation may be, may be or almost always, is not perfect.
Śyāmasundara: For instance, he observes if a ball being hit by a bat, it always moves. So he concludes that whenever there is circumstance of a bat hitting a ball, that the ball will always move.
Prabhupāda: Decision means because you are imperfect, human beings are imperfect, so their machine, these motorcars, there are so many accidents, so many killing. But because God is so perfect, although all the planets are rotating in their speed, just like this earth is rotating... What is the speed? At least in twenty-four hours it is completing 25,000 miles. That means its speed is about 1000 miles at least. And similarly, other planets are also moving, similarly. And the sun planet is moving at 16,000 miles per minute or second, calculated. But all these planets are moving in this way, so much speed, but they are not colliding. The perfect arrangement is there, and they are floating. How it is possible? This is accidental? Do you think this is accidental?
Prabhupāda: No. Nature is not working that way. Nature is working very perfectly. We can see. Just after... So perfect that the astronomers, they are calculating that on such and such date there will be an eclipse, and it will be seen in India; it will not be seen in Europe; and exactly at this time the eclipse will begin. So how they are calculating unless there is a rigid law? How it is possible? They are calculating mathematically. The general matter that two plus two is always four, not that by accident it becomes five. That is not possible. So the nature's law is working in that way. Otherwise how one year before you can calculate this solar eclipse and lunar eclipse so rightly? And they can say that from this country it will be seen, and from this country it will be not seen. That means the position of the sun, moon and everything, of the latitude and longitude, everything is so nicely done that you can make calculations very perfectly. How you can say accident? There is no accident.
Devānanda: In the Bhagavad-gītā even the human behavior is predicted like that. Through the later chapters it is described how people will act in different modes of nature, and they all behave that way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like in Bhāgavata it is calculated that lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. In the Kali-yuga, in this age, people will think by keeping their long hair he has become beautiful. Now, then, see all the hippies. That is written in the Bhāgavatam in India. How it is happening in Europe? Now the Indians also are imitating. So five thousand years before, this was written, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam.
Śyāmasundara: So would even accidents between two automobiles, that would not really be an accident?
Prabhupāda: Because it is imperfect, therefore there is an accident.
Prabhupāda: What does it mean? Experience, there are different types of experience. Your experience is different from my experience. Then we have to calculate whose experience.
Śyāmasundara: He says the substance called experience sometimes manifests in mind, sometimes manifests as matter. So, for instance, the substance of these flowers is made up of the experience gathered from previous flowers.
Prabhupāda: Whose experience? I am asking whose experience? It is not your experience, so nice flowers. You have not made it.
Śyāmasundara: Presumably the flower's experience.
Prabhupāda: Historical... It is historical. The whole cosmic manifestation has a date of creation; therefore it is historical. Anything material which has a beginning, that, that is history, it has got a history. So people do not know how long before this material world or cosmic manifestation was created. It is beyond their conception. Even the mathematical count, millions and trillions and millions, will not do, when he began, but it has got a history-beyond the calculation of so-called scientist and mathematician, but there is history. According to Vedic description there is history. There is history of Manu, there is history of, of Brahmā. So in this way there is a regular history. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā a small instance of history is being given: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17), that the Brahmā's daytime, just like we have got solar calculation, twelve hours' daytime, so that twelve hours of Brahmā is calculated sahara-yuga-paryantam. One yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of years.
Prabhupāda: One yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of years. Similarly, thousand times, that is Brahmā's twelve hours. So everything is relative. We are tiny people. We have got history of this world, some thousands of years, but Brahmā is greater than the human being. His history is different. Here everything is relative. My history is different from an ant's history. Similarly a man's history is different from Brahmā's history. So historical does not mean whatever you have calculated, that is history. History is relative according to the person. So these people, they have no information of the greater personalities than us, but we have got information from Vedic literature. In the higher planetary system, there the duration of life, standard of life is different from here.
Prabhupāda: So in this, on this platform, mostly the philosopher, scientist, they are Dr. Frogs. So their calculation is not correct. So whatever they cannot calculate, they take it as myth, imagination, that just a foreign. Even for ordinary human being to think of Brahmā's duration of life, huh, forty-three hundred thousand multiplied by one thousand, and that becomes twelve hours of Brahmā, because it is beyond your calculation, he thinks it imaginary. So unless one has got thorough knowledge of the whole universe, so for him it is imaginary. But it..., one man's imaginary may be a fact to the other man. It depends on the knowledge. So unfortunately, the so-called scientists, philosophers on this planet, they are thinking in their own terms and they are taking it final. So they must think other things as mythological, imaginary. But actually that is not the fact.
Prabhupāda: He can define, but he must be a very, what is called, sane man to define. The sane man's definition of God is there. Just like everyone says, "God is great." So now if he can define what is the greatness... The greatness, if one man is very rich, we consider him great man. If a man is very wise we call him a great man. If a man is very strong or influential or beautiful... Greatness according to our estimation. So all this greatness must be there in God. God must be the richest, God must be the strongest, God must be the most beautiful, God must be wisest. In this way, six opulences calculated, and when these opulences are in completeness, that is God. So that completeness we find in the history Kṛṣṇa. In the history of humanity it is very easy to find out that when Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet, so He proved the strongest, the most influential, the most beautiful, the supreme wise—everything—supreme famous. Kṛṣṇa's fame, fame is still going on. Kṛṣṇa's knowledge, stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, is still being studied all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They were calculating (indistinct) immediately, "Now we are here. Now we are in Mediterranean, Italy, this that." I was asking. I was very inquisitive. But actually you (indistinct). By the compass and by the map, they are coming to the right direction. The captain's business is this. They have got different types of maps, and the compass.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. The captain ordered, "Now turn the wheel this way. Stop the wheel this way." So therefore (indistinct). Otherwise he's nonsense. (indistinct) captain. If he has got the (indistinct) and everything, "Just go on this way." (laughter)
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: As far as defining love, what is love—people speak of love—he says, "If someone asks what is love, Paul answers, 'It is the fulfillment of the law.' Love is a matter of conscience, and hence it is not a matter of impulse and inclination, nor is it a matter of emotion, nor a matter for intellectual calculation. There is only one kind of love." And he says that is spiritual love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Love in the material world is impossible. In the material world everyone is interested for his own sense gratification. The love between man and woman, young boy and young girl, that is not love, that is lust, because both the parties are interested in sense gratification. But that is not love. Love means the parties, they will not think of his own sense gratification but the sense gratification of the beloved. That is pure love. That is not possible in the material world, but we see the example of love in the picture of Vṛndāvana. In the Vṛndāvana village, everyone—man, animals and fruits, flowers, water, everything—they are only for loving Kṛṣṇa. They do not want any return from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When the universe disappears, everything disappears. Who is going to calculate "Two plus two equals four"? Everything is finished.
Śyāmasundara: The principle does not carry on, despite...
Prabhupāda: The principle will carry on when again there will be manifestation. Just like this waterpot, it breaks, it becomes earth, and again from earth we make waterpot. Therefore this principle that the waterpot is made out of earth, that is a fact, but the waterpot as we see, that is temporary. Creation of the waterpot from earth is a fact. Similarly, this material world is a creation out of Kṛṣṇa's external energy. That is a fact. Kṛṣṇa's energy is fact. Kṛṣṇa is fact.
Śyāmasundara: What about something that cannot be tangibly seen, like a mathematical calculation or an equation?
Prabhupāda: You cannot see so many things. That does not mean that it does not exist. Your power of seeing is limited. Why you are depending on seeing?
Śyāmasundara: No. I want to take something that we all know, like "Two plus two equals four," that principle. There's no waterpot or anything visible involved, just a purely abstract principle, "Two plus two equals four."
Prabhupāda: Abstract or concrete, it doesn't matter. What is abstract for you is concrete for other. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa is concrete. Paraṁ satya, actually that is the only truth. So this idea, abstract and concrete, that is relative.
Śyāmasundara: Just like the idea, "The sum of the angles of a triangle equal 180 degrees."
Prabhupāda: This is calculation.
Śyāmasundara: It is calculation, but there's no...
Prabhupāda: Relative knowledge, because we cannot know beyond 180 degrees according to your geometrical calculation. But your calculation, everything is imperfect because you are imperfect. So because it is going on, for our purpose we take it as truth. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: It's only working in two planes, or two dimensions.
Prabhupāda: Just like this body. This body, I can say is false, but suppose somebody kills somebody, he cannot argue that it is a false thing. If it is killed, why the state should by so much anxious about it if it a false? No. Even it is temporary, even if it's false, but it has got temporary use. You cannot disturb that use.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So mathematical calculations, if it is perfect, then it is all right. Just like a child is born: father plus mother equal to child. So this is all right. But if one says that without father, through mother only, child, then how this is mathematical calculation? Whenever there is a child, it is to be understood that there is father and mother. If somebody says "No. Without father, simply mother gives birth to a child," then what kind of calculation is this? Similarly, these so-called philosophers, they simply think the nature is all-in-all, but that's not the fact. Nature is prakṛti, just like mother. There must be father. But they do not believe in father. So what kind of mathematical calculation? That is not mathematical calculation; that is concoction. Mathematical calculation—"Two plus two equal to four"—is a fact everywhere. Either you go to Europe or America or anywhere you go, that mathematical calculation—"Two plus two equal to four"—it can be understood. Similarly, it is very easy to understand that without father, mother cannot give birth to a child. Similarly, this nature, without the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa, she cannot give any birth. But these modern philosophers, scientists, they are struck with wonder simply by observing the natural activities. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Background of these natural activities is I."
Prabhupāda: So what kind of mathematical calculation? That is not mathematical calculation; that is concoction. Mathematical calculation—"Two plus two equal to four"—is a fact everywhere. Either you go to Europe or America or anywhere you go, that mathematical calculation—"Two plus two equal to four"—it can be understood. Similarly, it is very easy to understand that without father, mother cannot give birth to a child. Similarly, this nature, without the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa, she cannot give any birth. But these modern philosophers, scientists, they are struck with wonder simply by observing the natural activities. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Background of these natural activities is I." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My supervision." Just like prakṛti, woman, the girl, naturally, when she is young, her father's direction, er, when she is child. When she is young, husband's direction. When she is old, elderly children's, son's, direction. In India at least you'll find, woman has no independence. And to remain dependent under father, under husband or elderly boys, that is their happiness. And in Western countries I see they're so-called independent, but (indistinct) the women's are so unhappy. So mathematical calculation means you should take the natural sequence, no artificial introduction. That will not make us happy.
Dr. Rao: Not only that, but the scientists, really, they are changing like anything. Einstein developed the theory, and that theory was thought to be superior to that developed by Newton. Now another theory has been developed which is being thought to be superior than that of Einstein. So these things are only relative. The real scientist can see that all these things are relative. Everything is changing. Our conception of life—somebody says that sun is moving; somebody says earth is moving. But (indistinct) calculation you find that eclipse, lunar or..., (indistinct), it does not not matter which thing is moving and which thing is not moving. It is so complicated.
Prabhupāda: And the complicated things are so nicely (indistinct), that you know or do not know, it goes on. It doesn't matter.
Dr. Rao: (indistinct) (laughter) When people were not so scientific, at that time also, (indistinct rest of comment).
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are called muni. (indistinct) Nasau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. You cannot become a muni unless you differ from the previous system. That is muni. Muni means mental concoction.
Prabhupāda: They want to give direction to God. They think that God should be under their rules and regulations; therefore they dare to question Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa therefore says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Whatever He does, that is transcendental, but one must know tattvataḥ, in truth. And as soon as he knows it, he becomes liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). So one should know Kṛṣṇa in truth, not superficially, and comparing oneself to Kṛṣṇa. No, Kṛṣṇa is... "He (is) a man like me, maybe little wiser, that's all." Dr. Frog calculation. Atlantic Ocean from the well, three-feet well. You see. (indistinct). Yes.
Indian man: The gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa out of knowledge, or being affected by Him?
Prabhupāda: Being affected by Him. Yes.
Indian man: By His beauty. Not that they realized that He is God and...
Prabhupāda: Fifty. So within fifty years his philosophy is (indistinct). And in India, we do not know when religion began. You say Brahmā. So Brahmā's twelve hours... Twelve hours (indistinct) cannot calculate. So religion, our this Vedic religion is there since so many long years and instead of being devastated by the foreigner for the last two thousand years, still the religion, the system of religion, is running. It is not illusion, at least for India.
Śyāmasundara: I'll read his famous statement about religion. He says, "Religion is the (indistinct) of the oppressed (indistinct), the heart of the heartless world, just as it is the spirit of the spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."
Śyāmasundara: They trace back... Their so-called evidence is just mostly see that geological calculations. They see that at a certain period... They go further down into the earth's surface.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Śyāmasundara: All kinds of life disappear and there is simply rock. And they say the beginning was merely rock and water; then organic life came out.
Prabhupāda: No. That is not organic life. The soul appears in different ways. One of the ways is by fermentation, perspiration. So rock and water, when it is decomposed there is fermentation and there is possibility of soul taking advantage and come out with a body. In any case, from matter life never comes. It is compared with... Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. A vṛścika, a scorpion, is coming out from rice. Actually, a scorpion down lays eggs within the heaps of rice, and by fermentation of the rice, heating, the egg, I mean to say, produces a small scorpion, and it comes out from the rice. So foolish people, they think that the heaps of rice is the cause of producing a scorpion. So many things come like that, but that does not mean the matter is producing life. If matter is producing life, the modern science, so much advanced, so let them prove in the laboratory, mixing some matter, life is coming.
By His localized aspect He is living everywhere, omnipresent, within the heart of all living entities, within the atom even. And by His personal feature He is worshiped by the devotee. Wherever the devotee is there, He is present personally. Tatra dṛṣṭami dhanataḥ yatra nayanti mad-bhaktaḥ (?). That is His omnipresent, although He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. So nobody can calculate how many miles away that planet is, still, when a devotee like Prahlāda is in danger, He is immediately present there. That is the meaning of omnipresence. Not that because He is millions and trillions of miles away He cannot give protection to His devotee millions and trillions of miles away from His abode. That is the meaning of omnipresent.
Prabhupāda: Then he is perfect. Otherwise if he desires, God will supply him unlimited number of machine for going here and there, up and down, within this universe. There are two process: either you go up or come down, and the down means lower species of life; up means higher species of life. Just like demigods, Brahmā, his one day's life calculation is impossible to do. So there are different places of life, millions of years' living and a few moment living. So everything opportunity is given by God because He is supreme controller. We desire: Man proposes, God disposes. This is God's position. But so long he will go on proposing this and that, he will never be happy. When he agrees to the plan of God, then he will be happy.
Prabhupāda: So nearest, by God's paramātmā feature, He is living in everyone's heart, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). So He is within our heart; how He can be distant? But at the same time He is in His personal feature, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana, which, beyond, far, far beyond this material existence. So that is God's all-pervasive equality, that although He is far, far away, still He is near, nearest. The crude example is there that the heater, the original source of heat and light, is far, far away, ninety-three millions miles according to the modern scientist calculation, the sun. But still the light is in my room. So God is both far away and also within my heart. So one who is expert to see God, he sees both way. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto (Bs. 5.37). Although He is living in His own abode eternally, and enjoying with His associates, still He is present everywhere. That is God.
Hayagrīva: Well, in what way is God concerned with the moral or immoral actions of man? Is God indifferent to them, or has He simply set the laws of nature in motion and allowed men to follow their own course and reap the fruit of their own karma?
Prabhupāda: So we have got from Bhagavad-gītā that the gross understanding are the senses, though the still finer understanding is the mind, and then intellect, and then the soul. The soul is the original, basic principle of activities. So it becomes grosser, grosser, grosser, and when the soul acts on the platform of senses and body, these are gross activities. So our calculation is the gross activities of the body, then the subtle activities of the mind and still more subtle activities of the intellect, and then spiritual platform. So that is also expressed in another way: pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprākṛta. These are different stages of knowledge. Direct perception, pratyakṣa; then receiving knowledge from others, then..., pratyakṣa par..., aparokṣa, still further Vedic knowledge. Then adhokṣaja, beyond the experience of mind and senses. Then aprākṛta, transcendental, spiritual. These are the different stages of knowledge and different stages of understanding from gross to the subtler forms of life.
Purports to Songs
Therefore he says, āra kabe nitāi-cander, koruṇā hoibe: "When that day will come when Lord Nityānanda's mercy will be bestowed upon me so that..." Viṣaya chāḍiyā Āra kabe nitāi-cander koruṇā hoibe, saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be. Saṁsāra-bāsanā means the desire for material enjoyment. Saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be: "When my desire for material enjoyment will be insignificant, nonimportant." Tuccha. Tuccha means a thing which we calculate no value: "Throw it away." Similarly, spiritual advancement is possible when one is convinced that "This material world and material happiness is no value. It cannot give me any real bliss of life." This conviction is very much necessary. Saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be. And he also says that "When I shall be free from the desires of material enjoyment, then it will be possible to see the real nature of Vṛndāvana."
| Page Title: | Calculation (Other Lectures) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 04 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=143, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 143 |