Reporter: My question was that when there is no more people following their sva-dharma, their true self...
Prabhupāda: That anyone can do at any moment, any moment.
Reporter: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Any moment.
Reporter: Yeah. But then what is the action for the... Practical action, practical...
Prabhupāda: Practical action... If you give up... If a brāhmaṇa gives up sva-dharma, then it becomes a varṇa-saṅkara.
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Kula-dharma, what is that in the Bhagavad-gītā? Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. So they produce varṇa-saṅkara. If one does not follow the jāti-dharma, the kula-dharma, then he comes to the category of varṇa-saṅkara. Saṅkaro narakāyaiva. So when... A person born in brāhmaṇa family not acting as a brāhmaṇa, he's varṇa-saṅkara. So when there are number of people from the varṇa-saṅkara class, then the whole society becomes hell, narakāyaiva. Śaṅkaro narakāyaiva. What is that? Read that.
Pradyumna:
- kula-kṣaye praṇaśyanti
- kula-dharmāḥ sanātanāḥ
- dharme naṣṭe kulaṁ kṛtsnam
- adharmo 'bhibhavaty uta
"With the destruction of dynasty, the eternal family tradition is vanquished, and thus the rest of the family becomes involved in irreligious practice."
- adharmābhibhavāt kṛṣṇa
- praduṣyanti kula-striyaḥ
- strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya
- jāyate varṇa-saṅkaraḥ
- (BG 1.40)
Prabhupāda: Everything is, one after another, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So those who are responsible for giving up kula-dharma and jāti-dharma, and creating varṇa-saṅkara... Varṇa-saṅkara, just like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are supposed to undergo the purificatory process daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra. So the first saṁskāra is garbhādhāna. So in this Bhāgavata it is said by Nārada that as soon as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, immediately the whole family becomes śūdra. So who is observing the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra? Nobody.
Reporter: (laughs) Nobody.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Correct? In this age of Kali, everyone is to be accepted as śūdra. No brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. All śūdra, or less than śūdra.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Pañcavān.(?) This is the position. So at the present moment, to reform that, you cannot take them to the original position. It is not possible, it is Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They are very slow, they don't accept the right path... Just like God is here, Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). But they're creating their own God. Even big, big leaders they are saying, "Eh, Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa should be accepted?" Even big, big leaders, they do not believe that Kṛṣṇa was there on this planet, there was Kurukṣetra battle. You know better than me.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So, if big, big scholars say, when Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... (BG 18.65). The scholars say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? If now, I can frankly say, if leaders like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi and others, they mislead people, then how the people will be in normal condition? This is the position of India at the present moment. The leaders... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The leaders are blind. They have no training. They are not in disciplic succession. They do not know what is what, and they are taking the part of leadership, then everything is spoiled. Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. And they have created varṇa-saṅkara.
Reporter: Yes. Everybody is varṇa-saṅkara.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the only remedy is
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
This is the only, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy for rectification all the misgivings. Therefore any sane man, any thoughtful man, should try to understand the importance of this movement, and they should come and help. This is the...
Reporter: Hm. But what...?
Prabhupāda: It is most scientific.
Reporter: But what you are emphasizing is bhakti-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: But what I'm asking is how to bring the karma-yoga, the action, to transform the society, bring back into the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the yoga in its preliminary stage is karma-yoga. Yoga, yoga means connecting.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So karma, when you...
Reporter: Yoga karma sukhośanām. (?)
Prabhupāda: Akarma sukhośanām.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you are addicted to karma.
Reporter: Hm.
Prabhupāda: So if you bring bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, that is called karma-yoga. Similarly, you are addicted to speculation, jñāna. When you bring bhakti and mix with it, then it is jñāna-miśra-bhakti or jñāna-yoga. So, this things are there. Just like karma-yoga. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). This is karma-yoga. You are doing something, everyone is engaged to do something, but Kṛṣṇa says yat karoṣi, never mind, even if you are a thief. Your business is stealing-steal. Yat karoṣi means that includes everything. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam. "Give it to Me. The result, give it to Me." Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu.
Reporter: Mā phaleṣu.
Prabhupāda: This is karma-yoga—when you do not take the result. Ah? You may do whatever you like, but if you, if the result, if you give to Kṛṣṇa, that is karma-yoga.
Reporter: Hm. Yeah, but karmaṇy evādhikāras te...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: This is the, the point that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to work.