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Buddha and atheism (Conv. and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

According to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha.
Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: What are other major beliefs besides love, to which you ascribe?

Prabhupāda: Other belief, they are also based on the principle of love. That is actually not belief; that is misbelief. Because any religious principle... Just like Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, they do not believe in God, but they have love for Lord Buddha. So love is there. They may declare that "We don't believe in God," but they love Lord Buddha. And according to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha. Similarly, there are many persons. They do not believe in family life, they do not believe in so many things, but love is there. He is sleeping with a cat, with a dog. So in no circumstances you can avoid love, but they are suffering because the love is misplaced and misused.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

When there was too much animal-killing and people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahiṁsa, nonviolence.
Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Aha. What was the conclusion of Śaṅkarācārya?

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya's conclusion was to defeat Buddhism. They do not know it, but actually, when there was too much animal-killing and people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahiṁsa, nonviolence. And... Because people will give evidence, "Oh, in the Vedas there is..." They are not following, actually, the Vedic rituals, but just like crooked lawyers take advantage of law books, similarly... Therefore, Lord Buddha said that "I do not follow Vedic rituals. I have nothing to do with Vedas. It is my own formula." So Jayadeva has written one prayer because the Vaiṣṇavas can understand how God is playing. So he writes, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ: "My dear Lord, now You have appeared as Lord Buddha. You are decrying the Vedic rituals." Śruti-jātaṁ. Śruti-jātaṁ means Vedic. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so much compassionate to see poor animals being killed unnecessarily." Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "All glories to Jagadīśa. You have now assumed the form of Lord Buddha, and You are playing in pastimes." So Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. In Bhāgavata also it is stated. He is accepted as the tenth incarnation.

Allen Ginsberg: Ah. Who was nine?

Prabhupāda: Nine was Baladeva. Baladeva, Kṛṣṇa's elder brother Balarāma.

Allen Ginsberg: Then Buddha is one possible tenth.

Prabhupāda: Not tenth. Buddha is ninth. Yes. Buddha is ninth. Baladeva is eighth. And the tenth is awaiting.

Allen Ginsberg: Kalki.

Prabhupāda: Kalki.

This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void.
Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: So only those who practice Kṛṣṇa chanting can attain mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: They become immediately liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Allen Ginsberg: And everybody else gets involved deeper and deeper in the yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the śāstras, they should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures. You'll find in the Bhāgavata, There is a history of Candragupta, and "The Yavanas will become kings." That means English occupation, Mohammedan occupation. Everything is there. And Buddha's appearance, kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu means in the Bihar province in India. Bhaviṣyati. Because Bhāgavata Purāṇa was written five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,600 years ago. So therefore it is stated, bhaviṣyati: "In future, just in the beginning of Kali-yuga, Lord will appear as Buddha. His mother's name will be Añjana, and his business will be to cheat the atheists."

Allen Ginsberg: To cheat the atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sammohāya sūra-dviṣam (SB 1.3.24). Sūra-dviṣam means atheists. Surat. Sura-dvisam means those who are envious of Lord's devotees. That means atheist. So to bewilder them. What is that bewildering? This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void. There is no God. But what I say, you follow. Yes. That's all right." But he is God. Is it not cheating?

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence.
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: ...We, according to our Vedic system, we do not accept any other system of religion because we consider them nāstika. That is the primary principle. Nāstika means one who does not believe in the Vedas. He is called nāstika. Not that he does not believe in God. One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called nāstika. Veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ. Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence. So he criticized even the sacrifice in yajña. He criticized. Nindasi... But a Vaiṣṇava is praying, "My dear Lord, you are defying the Vedic principles." He knows why the Lord is now defying the Vedic principles; therefore he is devotee. In spite of Lord Buddha's defying the Vedic principles, a devotee is offering him obeisances. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. He knows the Lord, how He is playing, how He is bewildering the atheistic class of men. The atheistic class of men did not believe in God. Lord Buddha says, "Yes, you don't require to believe in God. There is no God. But you feel yourself that when you are attacked with violence you feel pain. Why should you offer to others?" Because his mission was to stop animal killing.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God.
Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.

Dr. Weir: The atheist is the person who worries most about God. I mean, he really... God must exist but he tries to deny it all.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

So Lord Buddha appeared, just being compassionate to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. Sadaya. He became very compassionate, that "All these poor animals are being killed unnecessarily."
Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Impersonalist: What about Buddha? Would you say that he is good?

Śyāmasundara: Buddha, Lord Buddha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. About Lord Buddha is also mentioned in the śāstra that Lord Buddha will appear in Gayā Pradesh, in the province of Gayā, and his business will be to cheat the atheists. That is described. Now, how he is cheating? He is the incarnation of God, but he is preaching amongst people who don't believe in God. So he is cheating in this way, that "Yes, there is no God. You hear me." But he is God. The people amongst whom he is preaching, they don't believe in God, but they accept Lord Buddha. But he is God. So by cheating, he is making others to worship God. God is there. But superficially they think, "We don't believe in God. We believe in Lord Buddha." And Lord Buddha is God. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said that his business will be cheat the atheist class of men. Sura-dviṣām. Sammohita-sura-dviṣām. Sammohita means bewilder. But his philosophy is that to make the people sinless. Ahiṁsā. "Don't kill." That is the greatest sin. So he is propagating that "Let these people be saved from the greatest sinful activities." Lord Buddha appeared... He also appeared in India. Why? He was also Hindu. He was kṣatriya, king. He promulgated this philosophy, ahiṁsā, when there was unnecessary killing of animals. According to Vedas, animal can be killed in sacrifice. That also to give a new life. But people misinterpreted and they began to kill animals like anything with the evidence of..., "In the Vedas animal killing is sanctioned." So Lord Buddha appeared, just being compassionate to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. Sadaya. He became very compassionate, that "All these poor animals are being killed unnecessarily." So he promulgamated a new type of religion-ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. "Don't commit violence. If I pinch your body, you feel pain. You should not pinch others." That is his religion. So, but, he... Because others, they will argue, "Oh, in the Vedas..." As I told you, that Vedas is the evidence, so "Here is... Animal killing is ordered. How you are stopping it?" Therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." And because he did not care for the Vedas, therefore in India, later on, nobody accepted Buddha philosophy. Therefore Buddha philosophy has gone outside India-China, Burma, Japan—because here in India they are very strong in the standing of Vedas. Śaṇkarācārya established that "This Buddha philosophy is non-Vedic. It cannot be accepted." That was Śaṇkarācārya's propaganda. So by the propaganda of Śaṇkarācārya the Buddhism were driven away. There are so many things that one has to study. So Lord Buddha, we accept him as the incarnation of God. And his name is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. And his business is also mentioned: sammohitaṁ sura-dviṣām. His business is to cheat the atheist class of men. That cheating is not cheating. It is for the good. Just like the father sometimes cheats the small child. You see? So that does not mean father is cheater. "Well, he has got some business to do that. That's all." So when I say Lord Buddha cheated, we don't mean that Lord Buddha was a cheater like ordinary man. No. He had to accept some means to lead them to God worship. He is God. So all the Buddhists... I have seen in Japan. Their temple is as good as Hindu temple. They have got Lord Buddha's statue. They offer lamps, and they sit down. They read Buddha philosophy. It is exactly Hindu temple.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow.
Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...The communist philosophy, they have created their own god, Lenin." Lenin is their God. We have seen in Moscow.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, I've been...

Prabhupāda: Every street, every a...

Buddhist Monk (1): Every street. I know, all over.

Prabhupāda: Lenin, Lenin's picture, Lenin's book.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's right.

Prabhupāda: So I told him that "You have created your own god, Lenin. And we have got our own God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, the principle of accepting somebody as God is there, in your philosophy and in my philosophy. So that you cannot avoid. Your communistic philosophy cannot avoid the conception of God, the leader." Just like in Buddha philosophy also, there is the conception of God, of Lord Buddha.

Buddhist Monk (1): No. That's not correct. Because we do not treat the Buddha... In fact, when the Buddha preached his atheistic philosophy... That's why he was termed a nāstika, a wasala. We do not believe in a god. We say panya, wisdom, and dharmuddha, is an incompatible...

Prabhupāda: At least, you follow the leadership of Buddha.

Buddhist Monk (1): Leadership, that's correct.

Prabhupāda: So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership,... God means "the leader." According to Vedic injunction, God means "the supreme leader." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the Supreme Leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere.

Father can do anything for the welfare of the son. That is another thing. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa appears as a cheater, the atheist class of men and Lord Buddha say, "No, no, there is no God. Yes, it is all right. You are right. But you hear me."
Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Just like a father cheats sometimes the son. The son has taken from the pocket of the father one hundred rupees' note. He's not separate. The father takes one lozenges, two paise worth. "Oh, my dear son, you can take it, very nice. You give me that." "Ah yes." It is not cheating? He's giving two paise worth lozenges, and taking hundred rupees' note. Is it not cheating? This is cheating. But father is cheating; therefore it is good. You cannot imitate father and cheat others. Father can do anything for the welfare of the son. That is another thing. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa appears as a cheater, the atheist class of men and Lord Buddha say, "No, no, there is no God. Yes, it is all right. You are right. But you hear me." "Yes, sir, we shall hear you." But he's God. This is cheating.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

No soul, no God. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is God, soul, and Vedānta philosophy, that is also God. So Buddha philosophy different from Vedānta philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy.
Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Which philosophy you are following?

Guest: Uh, Buddha philosophy, and uh, Vedānta and uh, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. I have a Tibetan teacher now, (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: He also teaches Kṛṣṇa?

Guest: Uh, he teaches uh...

Prabhupāda: Buddha.

Guest: Buddha. Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: So how you will adjust Kṛṣṇa philosophy and Buddha philosophy?

Guest: Well it's just a different uh, approach. But I don't think there's any fundamental difference. I mean if you, if you, uh, have the ultimate consciousness in one, you have it in the other, too.

Prabhupāda: So there is difference. Buddha philosophy does not accept God.

Guest: Yeah. It's a atheistic approach.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: It's a atheistic approach.

Prabhupāda: No soul, no God. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is God, soul, and Vedānta philosophy, that is also God. So Buddha philosophy different from Vedānta philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Guest: The approach is different, yes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest: The approach is different.

Prabhupāda: Approach? The end is different. Now how you'll adjust Buddha philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy?

Guest: There's a few, uh, paradoxes I..., but uh, anyway, I asked the same key question to uh, to my, uh, Tibetan teacher, and, uh, because he was, he was putting down everybody else and calling everybody else except his philosophy heretics...

God is there. They are worshiping Lord Buddha exactly as we worship Kṛṣṇa.
Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupäda: That, in the Bhāgavata it is said, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Lord Buddha appeared for cheating or bewildering the atheistic person. They do not believe in the (indistinct). They did not, did not believe in God, but God is there. Lord Buddha himself is God. Just like if I say I don't want (indistinct), but you come in a different place. So (indistinct) is there, but I am thinking it is not (indistinct). Similarly, God is there—Buddha—but they are thinking that they don't believe in God. This is cheating. God is there. They are worshiping Lord Buddha exactly as we worship Kṛṣṇa. Then is it not the same? Then how do they say they don't believe in God? They are made to believe in God in a different way. That is cheating, and it is good for them.

This Māyāvāda philosophy has made the whole world atheist. They don't believe in God.
Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. And that is going on, transmigration.

Chandobhai: ...gṛhītvaitāni saṁyāti vāyur gandhān ivāśayāt. How the body goes away?

Prabhupāda: Yes. According, according to the quality or the modes of nature, he has to change his body. This Māyāvāda philosophy has made the whole world atheist. They don't believe in God.

Dr. Patel: I think this, what do you call Māyāvāda philosophy is not... (break)

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī was introduced...

Chandobhai: By Buddha.

Prabhupāda: ...by Śaṇkara.

Chandobhai: Śaṇkara and Jains mostly.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvāda...

Theoretically atheistic, but because they believe in Lord Buddha, they are theistic. Because we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa.
Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, Buddhist philosophy is atheistic philosophy.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Theoretically yes, but practically, do you think they are atheistic, practically? Because...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Our... Yes. Theoretically atheistic, but because they believe in Lord Buddha, they are theistic. Because we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Also some of them, they believe in... They think Buddha is a god, and they are believers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddha is God. That is stated. You will find?

Cardinal Pignedoli: Excuse me if I go back for a moment to this question which is not that I ask if you are, excuse it, if you go only to some, you go to all the people. I agree this is not (indistinct). But because we are few... I give an example. Why, instead of going, suppose, to South Africa where the majority, the great majority, are believers, you don't go to Japan?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we go.

Cardinal Pignedoli: This is more important because you have not so many. If you go to South Africa, and although... I mean because also we. We have not so many. It's a question of possibility, of chances. Why don't you choose...? This is my question. These areas where Japan for instance is an area very atheistic and where yesterday I had this sect with me of the not perfectly...

Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra.
Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Now, I'm still concerned with two of the incarnation which have... Because for me this is the doctrine of personalism and personal highest form of God. Now, among two of the incarnations, there is Kapila and Buddha. And Kapila is practically, finally, the classical Sāṇkhya-ist atheist. How could it be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is imitation Kapila, and there is... Original Kapila is Devahūti, son of Devahūti, Kapila.

Prof. Regamay: It's what we can't find in Bhagavad-gītā with...

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Kapila, this Kapila is atheist Kapila. He's a different Kapila. Original Kapila is the son of Devahūti, son of Kardama Muni and Devahūti. That is described in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, God. Kapila. And actually, he enunciated sāṇkhya philosophy. And this sāṇkhya philosophy which is known in Europe amongst the European scholars, that is the atheist Kapila. It is not the original Kapila.

Prof. Regamay: So that's not a true Kapila.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Regamay: And Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf...

So Buddhadeva inaugurated the non-violence. So therefore He is God Himself, and He is teaching, "There is no God." This is rather cheating.
Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: Yet I still think of this problem why Lord Kṛṣṇa had to have an incarnation like Buddha who was teaching atheist doctrine and no...

Prabhupāda: That is described. I have described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Find out, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, first part.

Prof. Regamay: I read it in your commentary to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that he was, he didn't need to preach the worship of God because He was Himself God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Regamay: But He doesn't say it in the text.

Prabhupāda: That is described in the SB.., sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Sammohāya, just to bewilder the atheist class of men. The atheist class of men, we're advocating "There is no God." So He appeared before them... And they were killing animals like anything. So Buddhadeva inaugurated the non-violence. So therefore He is God Himself, and He is teaching, "There is no God." This is rather cheating.

Prof. Regamay: Yes. Not teaching, but cheating.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.

Prof. Regamay: Now there are some schools of Buddhists who are worshiping Buddha like a God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is God. He is God. They don't accept Buddha as incarnation of God. But from Vedas we understand that He is incarnation of God.

Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas."
Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.

Prof. Regamay: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.

Prof. Regamay: I have been struck in Ceylon on seeing in Buddhist temples, Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu, yes. There are in Penang. Penang also I have seen. They admit that Buddha is the incarnation of Viṣṇu. That is admitted in the śāstra. That means these Ceylonese or Penangese, originally they knew that Buddha is incarnation of Viṣṇu. In Ceylon you have seen?

Prof. Regamay: I have seen.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, I have seen in Penang also, Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu-mūrti.

Prof. Regamay: And but he said also, the doctrine of Buddha, that man has not person, doesn't exist as person. He's only some moving elements, physical and psychical and nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Person. He is person. He is person. Lord Buddha is person.

We pray Lord Buddha. Although he preached atheistic philosophy, but we know that he's incarnation of God.
Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...To become God conscious is not difficult. Simply one has to learn how to practice it. That's all. Everything stated. Find out that verse. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. (pause) Who will not respect Jesus Christ? He sacrificed everything for God, even his life. So who is that rascal that he'll not respect to Jesus Christ. What did he do wrong to the human society? He did everything for the good of the human society. Oh, I have got very, very, great respect for Lord Jesus Christ. Not only... Every, I mean to say, God conscious man, he must have respect for Jesus Christ. There is no doubt about it. My Guru Mahārāja had very great respect for Muhammad, Jesus Christ... We pray Lord Buddha. Although he preached atheistic philosophy, but we know that he's incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So a Vaiṣṇava is godly. He is qualified with all good qualities. That is Vaiṣṇava.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

And you don't believe in God. You don't... Why you believe Lord Buddha? He is God.
Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: God means that without father, He can, He will exist. That is God. That is the difference between you and God.

Amogha: How can darkness argue with the sunlight? Their trying to argue is just like darkness trying to argue with the sunlight.

Prabhupāda: And that Burmese said, "We don't believe in God." And you don't believe in God. You don't... Why you believe Lord Buddha? He is God.

Amogha: Then he said, "But there is no God mentioned in Buddhism. There is nirvāṇa."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you worship Buddha. Why?

Amogha: Because he spoke about nirvāṇa. In Burma many people are Buddhist. They say they are Buddhist.

Prabhupāda: Till now, 2,600 years past from the Buddhist community, from other groups and Arabia, very big religionist or philosophers has come. They are all in darkness. It was for the time being. The Buddhist religion was for the time. Atheist class men...

This body is not eternal. But God has got His eternal body. There is no question of God's becoming old. Because His body is eternal.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ..."He, the God, has no leg, no hand, but He accepts gift." "Accepts gift," means He has got hand, but why it is said, "No leg, no hand"? That means He has no material hand and leg. He has His hands and legs, but that is spiritual. That is the meaning. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is made of spiritual eternity... This body is not eternal. But God has got His eternal body. There is no question of God's becoming old. Because His body is eternal. It is the material body which is not eternal. That is subjected to old age, disease, birth, death. What is this big house? (break) ...stated that he came to cheat the atheists. They did not believe in God, but God came as Buddha.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: And he said, "Yes, you are right. There is no God."

Siddha-svarūpa: "Worship me." (laughs) Yes, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that. (break)

Prabhupāda: They were satisfied, "Yes, we shall worship you." (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: The so-called more advanced ones, the teachers, the leaders, the monks, they have a more difficult time because they are, have actually further studied the impersonalist philosophies, so they are more contaminated, whereas the congregation in general, they just, they don't take very seriously the philosophy. They don't get too deeply into it, I don't think. They just like to go to the temple and offer some incense to Lord Buddha and...

They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent."
Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: I think Christ said that there are many things to be spoken but...

Paramahaṁsa: "My father's house has many rooms, but I cannot tell you of it now."

Prabhupāda: Because they were fourth-class, fifth-class men. They will not understand. Therefore it is taken, "dogmas." The modern students, they are advanced in education, and these things are not explained. And besides that, their education is atheistic. Therefore they are trying to reject religion.

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say you cannot study Veda because Christ said that there is no other way than himself.

Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, "There is no God." "There is no God," but he is God himself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of...

Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."

These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered.
Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: The Christians, they have a concept of sin. So when Vivekānanda went to America he was telling them, "No, you forget this concept. Whatever you do, it's all right because you are God." They were surprised.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they liked him.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They did not like. The Christian priests did not like him. They condemned him, "Oh, you are come from India, and you are speaking nonsense, this?" In those hundred years the Christian priests were conscious: "But how is this? From India he has come and he's talking like nonsense?" They questioned in Chicago speech.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: He's just fanning the fires of atheism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: This Māyāvādī philosophy, is this...?

Prabhupāda: They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as nāstika. But vedāśraya nāstikya vada. These rascals, they accept Vedas and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bauddha ke adhika: "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the Deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is māyā. And more advanced than these atheists.

Brahmānanda: The Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: More... Not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

We accept atheist, one who does not believe in the Vedas. Therefore we have rejected the Buddha philosophy. They could not exist in India. But those who are preaching atheism through Vedas, impersonal, they are more dangerous.
Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: ...But you.... In your time, when you were a student, scientists were atheists. Now scientists are not atheists, sir. So I beseech you to remove that idea from you.

Prabhupāda: (break) Well, impersonal philosophers are more dangerous than the atheist.

Dr. Patel: That you think.

Prabhupāda: No, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.

Dr. Patel: Let's not discuss about this, not go into it.

Prabhupāda: He said, veda na maniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Vedāśraya bauddha-vāda nāstika ke adhika. We accept atheist, one who does not believe in the Vedas. Therefore we have rejected the Buddha philosophy. They could not exist in India. But those who are preaching atheism through Vedas, impersonal, they are more dangerous.

Dr. Patel: That impersonal preaching is not atheism.

Indian man: For example?

Prabhupāda: Anyone impersonalist—"God has no form." There are so many rascals. So he has got form to speak against God, and God has no form. This is going on all over the world. He speaks against the God, that "God is not a person." So he is person, and God is not person. Just see their foolishness. He is made by God, and he is a person, and who made him, he is not a person. This is foolishness.

Why do you think was done by Lord Buddha? Because the atheist class, they did not believe in God: "There is no God." So Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God. You are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir." But he's God.
Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: ...Nirvāṇa, nirvāṇa means that you give up all material desires. Not that "But he did not say anything more than that." Because it was meant for the fourth-class men, so he did not say. He simply asked that you finish this material desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that not misleading?

Prabhupāda: It is not misleading. It is truth, but the truth as much as you can understand. It is not misleading because Lord Buddha knew that "This rascal will not understand more than this." So he did not say further knowledge.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so some of our men, when we sell our books, sometimes we have to say things in order to get them to take the book. So that's actually not misleading.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is not misleading. Let him take, some way or other. (break) Why do you think was done by Lord Buddha? Because the atheist class, they did not believe in God: "There is no God." So Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God. You are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir." But he's God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We know that Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa. But he says, "No, no, there is.... No, there is no God. Yes, you are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir, we shall do that."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Holy name? If one chants...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. He is mentioned in the Bhāgavata.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what does the word "buddha" mean?

Prabhupāda: Buddha means "one who knows, in perfect awareness." That is buddha. Buddha. In Bhagavad-gītā this word is there, buddha. From buddha, budh-dhātu. (break) ...see the Sanskrit word, bodhave. Budha-bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8).

Lord Buddha said everything is false. He said, "No, the material world is false, Brahman is false, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Śaṇkarācārya, he advised bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam, "Hey you rascal, whatever I have said, you just..."

Guest: On the one hand he reached the height of that intellectual exercise, at the same time he realized that bhaja govindam.

Prabhupāda: No. He is correct in the study. Because his mission was to stop atheism. At that time India was full of Buddhistic philosophy. Atheism. So his preaching was to stop Buddhism. Therefore, the Buddhists are śūnyavādis. So he said, "No, it is not śūnya. That is Brahman. This material world is false, (indistinct)." Lord Buddha said everything is false. He said, "No, the material world is false, Brahman is false, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But he did not give any further information of Brahman. But at last he said brahma me govindaṁ brahmate bhaja govindam.

So this Buddha incarnation is cheating the atheist class of men. He said that "Don't kill animals. If you are killed you feel pain. Why you should kill animals?" That was his mission, to stop animal killing, sinful activities.
Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (4): Prabhupāda? Buddha was the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, right? Then why he has preached the impersonal form of God?

Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam here? Find out that, when Lord Buddha appeared, that verse. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). His propaganda was to cheat the atheist class of men. Atheist class of men, they did not recognize existence of God, so He became one of them. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. This atheist class, they were killing animals in the name of yajña like anything. So yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7), so He came as Buddha to stop this animal killing. His real business was stop the animal killing, that these rascals are going to hell in the name of religion, so at least stop their activities of animal killing. So therefore he started the mission, ahiṁsā paramo dharma: "Don't kill animals." But in the Vedas there is recommendation, in the yajña, as you were saying, that there is..., animal killing is recommended. So people presented that "Here is animal killing recommended in the yajña." Therefore he denied the authority of Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. So this Buddha incarnation is cheating the atheist class of men. He said that "Don't kill animals. If you are killed you feel pain. Why you should kill animals?" That was his mission, to stop animal killing, sinful activities. So what was your question?

Indian man (4): I just asked why he has preached impersonal form of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they were all godless, so he said, "There is no God, but you stop this animal killing." That was his mission. And he said, "There is no God, but whatever I say, you accept." So they agreed. But he is God. That is cheating. Superficially he said there is no God, but he is God. Somehow or other, if people stop animal killing and accept Lord Buddha, then he becomes at least one step forward to God realization. So in a cheating process he made good to others.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

tataḥ kalau sampravṛtte
sammohāya sura-dviṣām
buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ
kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati
(SB 1.3.24)

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Then in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theists."

Prabhupāda: To delude them. Read the purport.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā, and he preached his own conception of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice, every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly. Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization. He deluded the atheists because such atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God. Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha. That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to him. Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most prominent feature of the society. They claimed that these were Vedic sacrifices. When the Vedas were not accepted through the authoritative disciplic succession, the casual readers of the Vedas are misled by the flowery language of that system of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā a comment has been made on such foolish scholars. The foolish scholars of Vedic literature who do not care to receive the transcendental message through the transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession are sure to be bewildered. To them, the ritualistic ceremonies are considered to be all in all. They have no depth of knowledge. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, the whole system of the Vedas is to lead one gradually to the path of the Supreme Lord. The whole theme of Vedic literature is to know the Supreme Lord, the individual soul, the cosmic situation and the relations between all these items. When the relation is known, the relative function begins, and as a result of such a function the ultimate goal of life of going back to Godhead takes place in the easiest manner. Unfortunately, unauthorized scholars of the Vedas become captivated by the purificatory ceremonies only, and natural progress is checked thereby. To such bewildered persons of atheistic propensity, Lord Buddha is the emblem of theism. He therefore first of all wanted to check the habit of animal killing.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

So they did not believe in God. And Buddha said, "Never mind. There is no God. You haven't got to believe in God. You believe me or not?" "Yes, sir, I believe you." That is cheating. He's God. He's supporting that "Don't believe in God. But believe me."
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand. You cannot understand why Lord Buddha denied the authority of Vedas—to keep you in darkness. He wanted to stop animal killing, and he preached ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That was his mission. Now these rascals came forward that "In the yajña vidhi animal-killing is recommended. So why you are stopping animal-killing?" The Buddha... Buddha replied, "I don't care for your Vedas." Does it mean that he did not care? Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. He played like that, that "I am nāstika. I don't believe in your Vedas." But actually he's not. His mission was different. But these rascals will not understand why he is denying the authority of Vedas. So they're atheists. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Lord Buddha appeared to cheat the atheist class of men. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Sura-dviṣam means those who are envious of the believers, sura. They are called sura. And those who do not believe in God, they are called asura. Just to bewilder them that "Here is incarnation..." They do not accept incarnation. They do not accept God. Where is the question of incarnate? "Here is our leader." So they did not believe in God. And Buddha said, "Never mind. There is no God. You haven't got to believe in God. You believe me or not?" "Yes, sir, I believe you." That is cheating. He's God. He's supporting that "Don't believe in God. But believe me."

Page Title:Buddha and atheism (Conv. and Letters)
Compiler:Labangalatika, Rafael, Visnu Murti
Created:05 of Jan, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=25, Let=0
No. of Quotes:25