Expressions researched:
"Buddha"
|"Buddha's"
Jayapatākā: Everything... Even he includes Buddha and Kalki.
Hari-śauri: All the incarnations as well.
Jayapatākā: I... In the last...
Prabhupāda: Daśāvatāra.
Jayapatākā: Fifty-three avatāras.
Prabhupāda: Fifty-three?
Jayapatākā: Yes, I don't..., he..., fifty-three, know why.
Prabhupāda: How many avatāras are there mentioned in the Bhāgavata?
Hari-śauri: About twenty-six or something like that.
Jayapatākā: Twenty-five, twenty-six.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?
Satsvarūpa: It's religion because it's not empirical fact.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: It's not an empirical fact.
Prabhupāda: What is that empirical fact?
Satsvarūpa: That after you die, you take another body.
Prabhupāda: Apart from that, why, how the baby is becoming a boy? This is a fact. How a baby is becoming a child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, a young man is becoming middle aged? Does it mean... Is it a particular type of religious system? Why this nonsense? What kind of intelligent person they are? It is a fact.
Prabhupāda: So one who obeys the order of God, he is really religious. One who does not, he's rogue, duṣkṛtina. This is simple. (break).... Christian. Now, what is the order of God? The Ten Commandments. If one abides by the Ten Commandments, he's really Christian. Take Buddhism; if he abides by the order of Lord Buddha, then he's right. Take Muhammadans even. So it may be one is Muhammadan, one is Christian, or one is Buddhist, one is Hindu, but if he abides by the order of God, then he's religious. Otherwise bogus. We are concerned Vedic religion. Our conclusion is that to approach Lord Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Vedic, Ṛg-mantra. Or Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If one abides by this, then he's religious, or really religious. If he does not obey, then where is the religion? There is no religion. The instruction is here. One has to understand the philosophy from Bhagavad-gītā rightly and appreciate, himself, and preach. This is wanted.
Prabhupāda: It is not misleading. It is truth, but the truth as much as you can understand. It is not misleading because Lord Buddha knew that "This rascal will not understand more than this." So he did not say further knowledge.
Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so some of our men, when we sell our books, sometimes we have to say things in order to get them to take the book. So that's actually not misleading.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is not misleading. Let him take, some way or other. (break) Why do you think was done by Lord Buddha? Because the atheist class, they did not believe in God: "There is no God." So Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God. You are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir." But he's God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We know that Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa. But he says, "No, no, there is.... No, there is no God. Yes, you are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir, we shall do that."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Holy name? If one chants...
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. He is mentioned in the Bhāgavata.
Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what does the word "buddha" mean?
Prabhupāda: Buddha means "one who knows, in perfect awareness." That is buddha. Buddha. In Bhagavad-gītā this word is there, buddha. From buddha, budh-dhātu. (break) ...see the Sanskrit word, bodhave. Budha-bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you mentioned two different types of servitors. One is seeking to steal the property of the master as soon as the master is gone, and the other is sitting waiting...
Prabhupāda: He's thief; he's not servant. He's a thief. He has taken service as a matter of means that "If I remain as a servant, I'll get the opportunity of stealing." So he's not a servant, he's a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). (break) ...becoming a thief, if you have got some desire, you ask, "Kṛṣṇa, I am very poor. Please give me some money." That you can do. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. Ārtaḥ, one who is distressed, he's praying. That is beginning. But when he's advanced.... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja.
Madhusūdana: In other words, sometimes it says Kṛṣṇa comes Himself, and actually the meaning is that He comes as His incarnation like Lord Buddha, but the verse seems to say that it's the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, and without your purport it's not possible..., it's almost left so that you can be fooled, as if it's a covering, a special covering so that nondevotees cannot understand it.
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality cannot come? It is said there?
Madhusūdana: No, it says He comes in the form of Lord Buddha, but I remember it was a great misunderstanding that Buddha was...
Prabhupāda: He can come in any form He likes, not particularly as Lord Buddha. He's coming as fish, He's coming as tortoise, He's coming as boar, so why as Lord Buddha?
Madhusūdana: But you explain that Lord Buddha is not viṣṇu-tattva, but that He is śakty-āveśa-avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhusūdana: But you explain that Lord Buddha is not viṣṇu-tattva, but that He is śakty-āveśa-avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhusūdana: But the verse says the Supreme Lord will come Himself, so one tends to think, well, Lord Buddha is the Supreme Lord Himself, but actually without your purport we wouldn't understand that He's śakty-āveśa.
Prabhupāda: So the śakti is Kṛṣṇa. Śakti-śaktimator abhedaḥ. The śakti, energy, and the energetic, they're identical.
Duryodhana-guru: But sometimes also the Supreme Lord comes Himself as śakty-āveśa-avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Duryodhana-guru: Sākṣāt variety.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Yesterday you were telling a reporter that it is not possible for modern man to travel to the moon, but in your Second Canto you describe that in a previous age of Kali the men had created mechanical means for going to other planets, and they were creating havoc all over the universe, and Lord Buddha appeared to stop their nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Lord Buddha?
Rāmeśvara: I remember.... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they are all mythology. Do they not say?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, I'm stressing on this point, that it is not mythology. It is fact. It is history. (break)
Rāmeśvara: ...they are sending their sputniks to..., with televisions.
Prabhupāda: They can never stay there. They're coming back.
Prabhupāda: No. He is correct in the study. Because his mission was to stop atheism. At that time India was full of Buddhistic philosophy. Atheism. So his preaching was to stop Buddhism. Therefore, the Buddhists are śūnyavādis. So he said, "No, it is not śūnya. That is Brahman. This material world is false, (indistinct)." Lord Buddha said everything is false. He said, "No, the material world is false, Brahman is false, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But he did not give any further information of Brahman. But at last he said brahma me govindaṁ brahmate bhaja govindam.
Guest: There's a very nice story about this illusion. That once he was walking and someone who knew that Śaṅkarācārya preached this illusion business, was riding on an elephant, so he asked his driver, "Chase Śaṅkarācārya." And of course he did and Śaṅkarācārya started running. So this man said, "Why are you running, since this is illusion?" And he said, "So is my running." (laughter) He said, "So is my running, that's also an illusion."
Indian man (4): Prabhupāda? Buddha was the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, right? Then why he has preached the impersonal form of God?
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam here? Find out that, when Lord Buddha appeared, that verse. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). His propaganda was to cheat the atheist class of men. Atheist class of men, they did not recognize existence of God, so He became one of them. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. This atheist class, they were killing animals in the name of yajña like anything. So yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7), so He came as Buddha to stop this animal killing. His real business was stop the animal killing, that these rascals are going to hell in the name of religion, so at least stop their activities of animal killing. So therefore he started the mission, ahiṁsā paramo dharma: "Don't kill animals." But in the Vedas there is recommendation, in the yajña, as you were saying, that there is..., animal killing is recommended. So people presented that "Here is animal killing recommended in the yajña." Therefore he denied the authority of Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. So this Buddha incarnation is cheating the atheist class of men.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they were all godless, so he said, "There is no God, but you stop this animal killing." That was his mission. And he said, "There is no God, but whatever I say, you accept." So they agreed. But he is God. That is cheating. Superficially he said there is no God, but he is God. Somehow or other, if people stop animal killing and accept Lord Buddha, then he becomes at least one step forward to God realization. So in a cheating process he made good to others.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna:
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Then in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theists."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Then in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theists."
Prabhupāda: To delude them. Read the purport.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā, and he preached his own conception of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice, every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly. Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization.
Prabhupāda: He deluded the atheists because such atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God. Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha. That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to him. Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most prominent feature of the society. They claimed that these were Vedic sacrifices. When the Vedas were not accepted through the authoritative disciplic succession, the casual readers of the Vedas are misled by the flowery language of that system of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā a comment has been made on such foolish scholars. The foolish scholars of Vedic literature who do not care to receive the transcendental message through the transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession are sure to be bewildered.
Prabhupāda: To such bewildered persons of atheistic propensity, Lord Buddha is the emblem of theism. He therefore first of all wanted to check the habit of animal killing. The animal killers are dangerous elements on the path of going back to Godhead. There are two types of animal killers. The soul is also sometimes called the animal, or the living being. Therefore both the slaughterers of animals as well as those who have lost their identity as the soul are animal killers. Mahārāja Parīkṣit said that only the animal killer cannot relish the transcendental message of the Supreme Lord. Therefore if people are to be educated on the path of Godhead, they must be taught first and foremost to stop the process of animal killing as above mentioned. It is nonsensical to say that animal killing has nothing to do with spiritual realization.
Prabhupāda: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. So now we are material-bhūtaḥ, jīva-bhūtaḥ. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then bhakti begins.
Then he enters into Vaikuṇṭha, after Brahman realization. So Lord Buddha's finished?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No.
Prabhupāda: Go on, finish it.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse. Because the asuras or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted..."
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Los Angeles I asked you about this one verse in the Bhāgavatam where it says that in a previous Kali-yuga the materialists were able to travel to other planets. And then it said Lord Buddha appeared to stop them, that they were creating havoc. But you said that was possible in this age also that they may be able to do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) (in car)
Rāmeśvara: ...can't ever go to these other planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they can go.
Rāmeśvara: They will be able to land there?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, why not?
Rāmeśvara: Because their body is meant...
Prabhupāda: Even Arjuna even went higher planetary systems. But different way. In Bhagavad-gītā it is yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). And formerly when big, big sacrifices were done, they used to come and attend sacrifice.
Prabhupāda: It is not... Don't establish Deity. Talk on philosophy.
Devotee (1): "God is the supreme controller."
Prabhupāda: Yes. We accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God. Show in our books that we have got all respect for Buddha. We do not disrespect Lord Buddha, neither go against him. Anyway, if we get one house to live and a supporter, a big supporter, then our position will be secure. And if our cause is honest, then nobody can check.
Devotee (1): He has said that first I should come and speak to the Prime Minister and then speak at the University, and then see the reaction, and then we can go to see the king and say that this has been the reaction at the universities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it organizedly. They understand French language?
Devotee (1): Yes, English and French. They are very close to Vietnam.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. And he's come and taken prasādam and we talk to him sometimes.
Jñānagamya: He offers pūjā to Lord Buddha, he's worshiping Lord Buddha. He has an altar.
Prabhupāda: The other boy?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Śiva, Mr. Śiva from Malaysia. He's Hindu I believe. And he's recently come to visit us. Next is Dr. Rulf, he is from Holland. He is an economist and he is working here. I've been acquainted with him through business. And that is Reza. He has been coming here for a long time and he's been chanting.
Prabhupāda: He's trying to be (indistinct).
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Iranian spiritual culture and Indian spiritual culture. You told me?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Jñānagamya: You are the greatest teacher in recorded history, Prabhupāda, because your movement is so well founded in these books, more so than any religious teacher-Muhammad, Buddha, Jesus Christ. Your movement is perfectly founded even during your own lifetime. All your books are perfectly edited by you. It is truly Lord Caitanya's mercy.
Prabhupāda: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:
Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture, śruti-pramāṇa. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, śruti-pramāṇa. Then it is solid.
Prabhupāda: Avyabhicāriṇī, yes. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate. Avyabhicāreṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is above three guṇas. So if I am still under the modes of material nature, that means I'm not in avyabhicāriṇī-bhakti. This is the warning. Therefore Lord Buddha rejected Vedas.
Dr. Patel: Because, sir, in the name of Veda people were misbehaving.
Prabhupāda: Vedas, when Lord Buddha wanted stop animal killing, these rascals came with Vedas. "Vedas there is sacrifice, there is animal killing." So he thought that these rascals will create botheration. By bringing Vedas, there is... He said, "I don't care for it."
Similarly, these rascals are giving evidence of Rūpa Gosvāmī's advice, that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa..." But whether you have followed other things.
Pradyumna: The incarnationness or quality of being an incarnation, but that is not... The quality of being an incarnation is not... The most literal is incarnationness.
Prabhupāda: Therefore say that. Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnationness is fully described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Similarly, Lord Rāmacandra's incarnationness or Lord Buddha's incarnationness, Lord Caitanya's incarnationness, we have got full information in the Vedic literatures.
Pradyumna: Lord Rāma's incarnationness, Lord Buddha's incarnationness...
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya.
Pradyumna: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Where is your incarnation is described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only is the proof of one's becoming incarnation? Some such unauthorized claim of becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Last what you have written.
Pradyumna: "Similarly, Lord Rāma's incarnation, Lord Buddha's incarnation, Lord Caitanya's incarnationness, we have got full information from the Vedic scriptures. Where is your incarnation described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is an incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only the proof of one's becoming an incarnation? Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God. But we see in the Bhagavad-gītā that God is never formless."
Prabhupāda: (dictating:) Only the rascals and less intelligent class of men think that God is formless and when He incarnates, He takes a particular form. In this connection, a verse from Yāmunācārya may be quoted as follows. You have quoted the Bhagavad-gītā? That quote?
Prabhupāda: They should present that this Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion, any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. A little more than that. But this Kṛṣṇa cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years. Beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough (indistinct), and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there. You have to fight, organize (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādam asac... He has to preach this Māyāvāda. He has to present himself in that way. Otherwise he is Vaiṣṇava. Māyāvādam asac-chāstraṁ pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate.
Dr. Patel: Pracchannam Buddha, Śaṅkarācārya.
Prabhupāda: Mayaiva vihitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā. (break)
Dr. Patel: The most important group in all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇava-bhakti-sat-saṅga anyathā yānti vido apy adhaḥ.(?) Even well-versed man will come down if he does not understand. All the branches of Vaiṣṇavism, they give the same comment.
Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Without sat-saṅga, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all. That is... Nonviolence, at the same time cow-killing. This rascal, another rascal... You are observing Buddha-jayantī and daily cow-killing. As if Buddha, Lord Buddha, recommended cow-killing.
Dr. Patel: Buddhists all eat, are meat-eaters the world over.
Prabhupāda: Not a question of Buddhist. That is Christian, Hindus, everyone. Rascals. Lord Buddha, he was nonviolent, and this Jawaharlal Nehru was observing Buddha-jayantī and at the same time sanctioning cow-killing. What is that? Cow-killing. "What is wrong in eating meat?" He has said that. (break) ...advertising our movement. Everyone's asking, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa?" That is the whole American people. Even if one did not know, he is "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" And our books are selling, "What is this Kṛṣṇa book?"
Rāmeśvara: Censorship of television, radio, all media.
Prabhupāda: So let us... (car door opens—break) The people are becoming godless. How much degradation. Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Lord Buddha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared and many others, and the people of India, they are becoming godless. Why? Do you follow what I say? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). And He does it in India within this universe. And they are become now... This is Kali-yuga. Other countries, they may, but India, so fortunate birth... Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya janma. They are becoming degraded so much so that they are doubting, asking questions.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand. You cannot understand why Lord Buddha denied the authority of Vedas—to keep you in darkness. He wanted to stop animal killing, and he preached ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That was his mission. Now these rascals came forward that "In the yajña vidhi animal-killing is recommended. So why you are stopping animal-killing?" The Buddha... Buddha replied, "I don't care for your Vedas." Does it mean that he did not care? Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. He played like that, that "I am nāstika. I don't believe in your Vedas." But actually he's not. His mission was different. But these rascals will not understand why he is denying the authority of Vedas. So they're atheists. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Lord Buddha appeared to cheat the atheist class of men. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam.
Prabhupāda: They are called sura. And those who do not believe in God, they are called asura. Just to bewilder them that "Here is incarnation..." They do not accept incarnation. They do not accept God. Where is the question of incarnate? "Here is our leader." So they did not believe in God. And Buddha said, "Never mind. There is no God. You haven't got to believe in God. You believe me or not?" "Yes, sir, I believe you." That is cheating. He's God. He's supporting that "Don't believe in God. But believe me." (laughs) This is cheating. He supported them: "Yes, there is no God. But what I say, you believe?" "Yes. What you say, we shall believe." This is cheating. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Mohaya. So God has to deal with so many rascals, fools, in this material world. Sometimes He displays His pastime like that. Therefore who will understand? Only the devotees will understand. So you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. We are devotees of Kṛṣṇa. We know the secret. To keep you perpetually in darkness, He manifested such līlā that He is dead, finish. Just like the idol-breaker. They think, "Now their Kṛṣṇa is finished. We have broken."
Prabhupāda: In another place, Bhāgavatam, it is said, bhavauṣadhi. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is bhavauṣadhi. And one must have faith rigidly. Otherwise.... Kṛṣṇa is the protector. In Bengali it is said, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke: "If Kṛṣṇa wants to kill somebody, who can give him protection?" That faith we are losing at the present moment. We.... In India especially, we are born in a country where God descends as Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Buddha, Caitanya. Now they are asking, "What is God?" So the whole culture has to be revived. And this is an attempt, humble attempt, to revive our old culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We should join together. To this purpose we are attempting to open a center here. And Mr. Pandiya, how long you are here in...?
Mr. Pandiya: I'm here for the last six months, sir.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Before that, where you...?
Mr. Pandiya: Before that, I was at Berhampur.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). He says. You do not take Kṛṣṇa, you take another rascal. Then how you can be helped? Kṛṣṇa says, the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā, that "I told him," and you do not take it. You take another rascal. Then who will guide you? You remain rascal. What can be done? Śaṅkarācārya may be seventeen hundred years. Buddha is two hundred and fifty. And Bhagavad-gītā, five thousand years ago, this Bhagavad-gītā... And before that, puruṣa, forty millions of years ago... If you don't believe Bhagavad-gītā, then don't talk of Bhagavad-gītā. You talk of Śaṅkarācārya, Sunātha,(?) this... That is another thing. But if you talk of Bhagavad-gītā, it is stated there. People have misguided people in such a way that we are finding very difficult to reform them. But things are there. We have no difficulty. You do not accept—all right, you do your own business; let me do my business. We cannot make any compromise because some rascal has said something. That is not possible. We have to follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. What is the wrong there if you strictly follow Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: He said that Christ is śaktyāveśa-avatāra, as Buddha. How he can be otherwise? He sacrificed everything for God. He cannot be ordinary man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Hm. That Melbourne meeting, it was... You were present?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I heard about it. With the monks, I think.
Prabhupāda: They very much appreciated. Because they saw that I have got full respect for Christ and his real disciples. And actually we have. Why not? He said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are interpreting killing. This is going on. And they are Christians. Just see how much cheating. It is clearly written, "Thou shalt not kill." And their only business is killing, and still, they are Christians. How much cheating it is. Whatever little success is in our movement, the cause is I have not tried to cheat. Honestly, what I knew, I heard it from Guru Mahārāja and scripture, I took it. There was no cheating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you pointed that out yesterday when you talked with Mr. Rajda, that it's an open secret. You are not introducing anything new.
Prabhupāda: It is not fictitious, as rascal... I have discussed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is exactly what his purpose is. He wants to show there is Kurukṣetra. It's not in someone's mind. "And perhaps even including Lord Buddha's explaining his real identity and role in bringing people to a higher platform."
Prabhupāda: These are good ideas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And then to include Lord Caitanya, the six Gosvāmīs, and other great ācāryas in our line, up to Your Divine Grace, the foremost preacher of the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the world today."
Prabhupāda: Very good. This is all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Then we would show how Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings are still manifest in India today by the nine devotional processes and the predominant role Kṛṣṇa plays in the culture and religious life of the people in temple worship, painting, dance, music and lifestyle, including offering and taking prasādam, varṇāśrama-dharma, etc... Then testimonials could be given by prominent supporters of our movement and perhaps a short statement by Your Divine Grace..."
Mr. Dwivedi: And just near there is moving door, shutting door. It has got nine pillars. If you just push one pillar, the entire structure shifts. And the pity is the archaeological department of government of India has taken no care about this. We had some good statue of Buddha and Mahāvīra and... Two, three were stolen away. We collected at our own institution. Then ultimately I wrote to government. I said, "Already some statue have been stolen away. You kindly left it wherever you like. We can't protect them from thieves." Just three months back. Then they took away another three statue, one of Viṣṇu, one of Buddha, another of Mahāvīra.
Prabhupāda: Stone?
Mr. Dwivedi: One big, one were stolen. Three... I asked government. I asked them three times. Government has not yet taken them away from there. Otherwise we had collected it at our own headquarters and institute.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Deity of Kṛṣṇa?
Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: No, Buddha.
Mr. Dwivedi: Buddha. And Viṣṇu.
Yaśodā-nandana: Also in the Bhāgavatam, where Prabhupāda was talking about Lord Buddha... You mentioned that if the followers of Lord Buddha do not close the slaughterhouse, there is no meaning to such a caricature. That word was very nice. But in new book that word is not there any more. They have pulled the word. The meaning of the word is not... So many times.
Prabhupāda: It is very serious situation. Rāmeśvara is in direct...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think they're working too independently without consulting properly.
Yaśodā-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that "We can make better English," so they change like that, just like in the case of Īśopaniṣad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's actually a very dangerous mentality.
Yaśodā-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It's going to be a different book.
Prabhupāda: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation. You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarūpa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." The next printing should be again to the original way.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, yes. The new government there, they pride themselves in being a dharmiṣṭha society, based on the teachings of Buddha. So I submitted an open letter to the same press, that "How is it dharmiṣṭha if the government is in fact supporting the organized slaughterhouses, that the government maintains the liquor industry, the tobacco industry, the tea industry, and they encourage cinema, nightclub, hotel, tourism, which encourages prostitution?" I said, "Where is the dharma? Dharma means four things: no animal slaughter, no intoxication, like that." The editor promised that he would publish it today. So if they publish it, it will also be a very controversial...
Prabhupāda: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?
Haṁsadūta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for them, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.
Haṁsadūta: The Buddhists, they have very nice temples there. In all their temples they have diorama exhibits about the life of Buddha and other figures from their line, but done very nicely, much nicer than the Hindu temples, very clean. But all Buddhists, they don't follow Buddhist even. They all eat meat, and, they say, they even drink and have women. Everything deteriorated. (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:) Is it all right to speak?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Haṁsadūta: I once heard that when some devotees wanted to buy a church in America you suggested that they should keep the altar and next put Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and give simultaneous lecture from Bible and from Bhagavad-gītā. I was thinking that in Shree Lanka, if it would be all right to have a deity of Lord Buddha and speak simultaneously on the Dharmapatha(?) and also Bhagavad-gītā, showing how Bhagavad-gītā is beyond the stage of nirvāṇa. Is that a good idea, Prabhupāda, or not?
Prabhupāda: Good idea, provided you can present properly.
Haṁsadūta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Viṣṇu, then why he did not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teachings ABC's and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching ABC. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.
Haṁsadūta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Viṣṇu, then why he did not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teachings ABC's and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching ABC. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.
Prabhupāda: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.
Haṁsadūta: Once Lord Buddha, they say, was sitting under a bo tree, and a leaf fell down. He picked it up and he said, "The knowledge I am giving you is like this leaf compared to the tree of knowledge." So I always quote that. They appreciate that, "Oh, yes," that beyond nirvāṇa there is brahma-nirvāṇa, and beyond that there is Paramātmā, and above that there is Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is nirvāṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityaj... Parityajya means giving up, and that is nirvāṇa. It requires expert presentation.
Haṁsadūta: In all the temples they keep a Viṣṇu Deity. All the Buddhist temples they have a Viṣṇu Deity. They have a saying that Viṣṇu promised Lord Buddha to protect the Buddhist religion in Śrī Lanka for five thousand years in this age. They say that.
Bharadvāja: Girirāja has gone to get the book. Then there will be some dioramas of different avatāras-Kṛṣṇa, Buddha and Caitanya Mahāprabhu-showing how They have come to protect the dharma, to reestablish the dharma. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna on the battlefield.
Prabhupāda: Girirāja come back.
Bharadvāja: He's here.
Girirāja: Yes.
Bharadvāja: On this side, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: The verse yaṁ pravrajantam... Second chapter. When Vyāsadeva is following Śukadeva Gosvāmī.
Bharadvāja: Yes. Yaṁ pravrajantam anupetam (SB 1.2.2).
Prabhupāda: Read it.
| Page Title: | Buddha (Conversations, 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, RupaManjari, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=38, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 38 |