Bodily (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"bodily"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: bodily not "bodily comfort*" not "bodily concept*" not "bodily platform*" not "bodily feature*" not "bodily necess*"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Utopian-like, where there is no harm, no..., all is good, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal. A man who has no God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is no better than animal because he has no other business than the four principles of bodily demands. So that is also prevalent in animal kingdom. Therefore this is a privilege for human being, to understand about God, and as such, in every human society there is some sort of religious principle. This religious principle means to understand God. Either you take it, Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism, every religion is trying to understand God according to their capacity. So without this understanding, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, human life is as good as animal life.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult in this age. Then you have to restrain yourself in so many things. Complete free from sex life. You have to eat under certain direction, you have to... So many things there are. These rules are not followed. Simply they have got some bodily gymnastic sitting posture. They are thinking, "I am practicing." No. That is one of the items. So all the items cannot be observed in this age. Therefore it is wasting. (Break) "...yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all." This is the goal of yoga practice. So that is possible very easily by this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by any other process. And the ultimate goal is here. One should be always abiding with God, worshiping Him, transcendental loving service, and intimately united with Him, intimately. This intimate unity means that five kinds of relationship. That is the perfection of yoga. When Kṛṣṇa has advised yoga practice, sāṅkhya-yoga... You have Bhagavad-gītā? There is sāṅkhya-yoga. You'll find in the forty-seventh verse. This is the version.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Formerly, in Europe they were also living.

Allen Ginsberg: Man lived this way for 20,000 years, 30,000 years until the 19th Century.

Prabhupāda: So we have to live that. Plain living, high thinking. The necessities of this bodily existence, that should be minimized and not unhealthy. Healthy. To keep oneself fit. But the time should be utilized-develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life. Then his whole problem is solved. Here is the big man.

Allen Ginsberg: Young devotee.

Kīrtanānanda: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: How many rounds you chant?

Child: All rounds.

Prabhupāda: Only one round?

Child: All round.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That is not finished. You have to go... That is... Upaniṣad says that, he's praying that "Please wind up Your effulgence so that I can see Your true face." The Upaniṣad says. You see in the Upaniṣad. And he's praying that "Please wind up Your this glaring effulgence so that I can see Your real face." So real face is there. And Bhagavad-gītā says, brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. "This impersonal Brahman is standing on My existence." And Brahma-saṁhitā says that

yasyā prabha prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

This Brahman effulgence is nothing but His bodily effulgence. You see whenever we put Kṛṣṇa, there's a bodily effulgence. Within that bodily effulgence every creation is there. Just like this effulgence of sun. Within the sunshine all these planets are moving, all this vegetation, everything growing, coming. The whole thing is existing on the sunshine. Similarly, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything existing on brahma-jyotir. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. "This impersonal exhibition of this whole manifestation, it is I." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything existing in Me." Nahaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. "But I am not there."

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree. But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Their ultimate goal is that if they can do something, humanitarian work, welfare work to the... The Vivekananda, or the Aurobindo, or this, what is called, the Russell, or Romain Roland, and so many, they are coming. And the yogis, they are trying to be self-satisfied by meditation. But nobody is concerned with God, or Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is concerned. This is the position of the world. So under the circumstances, our first business is how to awaken people from this illusory condition, that he is thinking, "I am this body," or the most well-being is taking care of this body or bodily relationships. So we have to take out from that illusory condition. So that should be the policy of our Back to Godhead. And the, so far the editors are concerned, they are supposed to know all these conclusions. Now we have got two editors, Hayagrīva and Satsvarūpa. I believe both of you know the conclusion which I am trying to push on within this movement. So you should work cooperatively in such a way that you don't deviate from the policy, and conjointly, consulting together, so that I may be relieved from petty minor things. But if there is some difficulty, I am at your service. Now what is the difficulty at the present moment?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

You.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: They 'll not be able to follow all the regulative principles; therefore they must commit all kinds of abominable activities. Under the circumstances the śāstra or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So śāstra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature. Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacārī. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmācārya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacārī, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadācāra. Naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I... When I was... In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Who is your enemy?

Guest (1): Even physical, bodily, whatever it is, whatever it is, but you must know who your enemies are. Your enemy may be my friend. (part indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's nice proposal. Unless you find an enemy, how you can fight? So of course, we do not say... We Vaiṣṇavas do not say that there is no need of fighting. We never say. When there is need of fighting we must fight. Rather, somebody in New York, some Goldsmith, he was that, "Why Kṛṣṇa is advising Arjuna to fight, to become violent?" So somebody protests like that. But there is no meaning of protesting against the action of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our view. So we Vaiṣṇavas, we are chanting. It does not mean that when there is need of fighting with avaiṣṇava we shall lack in strength. We can fight. One gentleman inquired from me that "Vaiṣṇavism makes one dull. He cannot act." And, "No. You have not seen a Vaiṣṇava." In the two fightings, great fighting, the Rāmāyaṇa and Mahābhārata, the hero was Hanuman and Arjuna, and they fought.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all... First of all we have...

Guest (5): If you have potency to rise and go higher and higher...

Prabhupāda: You are not on the ātmā stage; I am not in the ātmā stage. You are in the bodily stage.

Guest (5): Both, body and soul, together...

Prabhupāda: Then if you are in the ātmā stage, then you have no argument with me. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Guest (5): But argument, you have admitted that...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no argument. That will stop. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).

Guest (5): It is on arguments get down...

Prabhupāda: No. If you are... Just see. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that:

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

If you are in the spiritual platform, then you will see a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, a caṇḍāla, a elephant—they are in the same stage. So there is no argument because he sees a dog and the learned brāhmaṇa, the same position.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes.

Śyāmasundara: I think you said once ... You answered that sometimes the fan turns a little bit after the plug.

Revatīnandana: Yes. Mechanism, bodily mechanism has pulled the plug. That's what I said. Some material mechanism is still functioning like a machine.

Prabhupāda: It has stopped, but maybe just like the fan is stopped, but still moving. Like that.

Revatīnandana: So there are many different manifestations of energies. It is the oneness that they're all Kṛṣṇa's energies. But there is also diversities.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say acintya bhedābheda. You cannot clearly distinguish. It is one and different, at the same time. It is spirit and not spirit. You have to take it like that.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says, "I will save you." Therefore let us go to Kṛṣṇa. Why (indistinct)?

Reporter: Changing, because he is disturbing, that's all.

Prabhupāda: Disturbing... Your mind is also disturbing always.

Reporter: Yes, yes. You are...

Prabhupāda: That is always with you. Your body disease always with you. Are you not suffering from bodily pains—"Oh, I'll (indistinct)"? Why don't you go to (indistinct) to cure your (indistinct)? (laughter). So why you do? You are already in danger. If you... Why don't you realize that point?

Reporter: That I... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Reporter: But we are talking of national problems.

Prabhupāda: These are symptoms. Just like one man is diseased and he is saying, "Oh, (indistinct)." Real thing is his disease. These are symptoms. So people are trying to cure patchwork. We are giving the supreme cure. That is the difference. No patchwork, no patchwork disease cure will help you. Complete cure.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. Vaibhava, prabhāvā, expansion of Kṛṣṇa. When the body is similar, but the color of the body different, that is called vaibhava. Just like Balarāma. Balarāma. Kṛṣṇa's body and Balarāma, there is no bodily difference, but Kṛṣṇa is blackish, Balarāma is whitish. These things are described in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. You don't read it? Huh?

Devotee (2): Yes, it's from the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. I wanted some explanation about all this...

Prabhupāda: That explanation is there. Why you are asking me? That is... I do not remember exactly what is the features of Vaibhava. That is there. But the vaibhava, prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, there are detailed description of Kṛṣṇa's expansions. They are described there. You can refer to. Prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, they are expansions of Kṛṣṇa's different avatāra, incarnation, and part, part of incarnation. So it is a huge list, and it's not always possible to remember them in detail. Better refer to the book. Is that all right?

Devotee (2): Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family. Why they have taken seriously? Because they have understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely. So I request that God is neither Indonesian, neither Indian, neither African, God is God. And He claims that all living entities, in any form... The form is superficial. The form is taken as dress. Just like you are dressed in a different way, I am dressed in a different way. But we are not talking to the dress, we are talking to the man who is putting on the dress. Similarly, this bodily distinction is material.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Activities of sense gratification. He's becoming entangled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the modern scientific research means to increase the demands of the body, the bodily demands.

Prabhupāda: Yes, what they can do? Because they're rascal, foolish, just like children, they'll simply make their body dirty. That's all. He does not know anything. If you bring a small children, what they will do? They'll take this... You see. he does not know anything. He's a rascal. Similarly you scientists, you are all rascals. You do not know anything. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, making research. What research you can do? You do not know anything. What research you can do? And Vedic injunction is: yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you know the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known. But you do not know what is Absolute Truth. Therefore you are in ignorance. If you know one thing, then you... Just like you are talking. We are not official scientists or philosopher or anything. But why you are challenging, you are talking so boldly? Because we know one thing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we can say so boldly and challenge anyone. I'm not a D.A.C. like you. How I can challenge you? I'm challenging you. How? Because I know Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they say all... Yes. The bodily functions, intelligence...,

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Blunt, intelligence becomes blunt.

Prabhupāda: Yes, blunt. When the knife is sharp, it can cut, but if it is become blunt, then you cannot cut.

Paramahaṁsa: Or worn by age.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have all been described as māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: (BG 7.15) "Their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Therefore we don't give any credit to all these rascals. Although we are very small, but we don't give any credit. We frankly say, "These are rascals, fools."

Paramahaṁsa: After the 20th...During the Industrial Revolution in the western world....

Prabhupāda: The Industrial Revolution means revolution of the śūdras. That is Industrial Revolution. Increasing the number of śūdras. These scientists, they are also śūdras. Because they have no real knowledge. Brāhmaṇa means one who has got real knowledge. Brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And this industrial development means technologists; they are śūdras.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: By his work, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To glorify God means the glorify the nature also. Just like here is a poem in Brahma-saṁ...

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭisv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

Now, the whole creation is there. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). On account of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, which is called brahma-jyotir... Just like on account of the sunshine, the whole universe is existing. So similarly, there is a shine, bodily shining, what is called brahma-jyotir. So when the brahma-jyotir is there, then innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). When the effulgence, brahma-jyotir, is there, innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe. Koṭi, innumerable. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭisv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). And in each universe is created with innumerable number of planets. And each planet has got different atmosphere. Now the whole universe is described. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Yasya prabhā. The beginning: "Whose effulgence has created." That means simultaneously you praise His creation; at the same time, you get the universal knowledge how many universes are there, how they are situated, what is the atmosphere, everything. You get a glimpse of idea at the same time. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. This is the way.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You see how nicely God has created this flower. How nice artist he is, how he has put the color exactly to the same point. So there is no hand? This is foolishness. It is going on. There is hand of God, but how His hand is working we do not know. That is explained in the Vedas: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He has got so subtle power that it is working, but we are seeing that it is automatically being done. But He's working. He's working. Just like we work. To paint one flower, we require a brush, color and so many things. Similarly He also requires. But His requirement are supplied so quickly that we see, "It is being automatically done." That is the... Because He's so perfect and unlimited that His working capacity we cannot follow. These are explained in the Upaniṣads, that God has no leg, but He can go so fast that nobody can compete with Him. These are the statements the Upaniṣads, that He goes so fast that nobody can compete with Him, nobody can go with Him. That is God's energy. So when it is said, "God has no leg," that means He has no this imperfect leg. He has go..., He has got so perfect leg that nobody can walk with Him. This is the idea. Not that God has no leg. He has got leg, but not this rascal leg. After walking three miles, that's all, finished. (laughter) Not like that. Not like that. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but he has no eyes. These are the statements in the Vedas. He has no eyes... Just like we have got eyes, but we cannot see beyond this wall. But He can see everyone's heart, what he is thinking, what he is doing, everything. You cannot hide anything from His seeing. Paśyati. That is, that is His seeing. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. As soon as we hear something "seeing," immediately understand the relative term that one must have eyes to see. Then when the Vedas says acakṣuḥ, immediately warns that "Don't think God has got eyes like you." Because as soon as we think of eyes, we think of our eyes. We cannot think that there can be eyes which can penetrate everywhere. We cannot think of that. And therefore they become impersonalists. Because we rascals, when we think of God's personality, we think of our personality. "So we are imperfect. Therefore, how God can be person? He must be just opposite." Imperfect knowledge. They cannot think, these impersonalists, that God is person but all His bodily construction is perfect, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is dangerous. He's already... A brāhmaṇa is doing śūdra's business. Therefore this stress has been given. You have become brāhmaṇa- like, you do like, act like brāhmaṇa. Janma-karma, uh, guṇa-karma. So you have got good qualification of the brāhmaṇas. Now act like brāhmaṇa. Then your life is succ... Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). You act as a brāhmaṇa and satisfy the Lord, Supreme. Varṇāśramācaravatāṁ puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). If you strictly act as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra, it doesn't matter. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). If, by your action, as it is described in the śāstra, the Supreme Lord is satisfied, then your life is successful. But they are not doing even sva-dharma, bodily. Therefore the ultimate solution is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even sva-dharma. "Just surrender unto Me. I'll give you protection." Sarva-dharmān means sva-dharma, including, that "You have to give up your sva-dharma. Don't... You cannot act as a brāhmaṇa, you cannot act as a kṣatriya, neither you are brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya. All right, whatever dharma you have got, give it up. Just surrender unto Me. I'll give you protection." Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... This is the protection.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): That's right. You are... One has to... (Sanskrit or Pali:) Śambhuḥ pāpas cākāraṇa, kuśalasya upasampada sac citto parayodapanam etaṁ buddham anuśāsana. (?) Abstain from the unwholesome, the source of all our problems and suffering, lobha, doṣa, moha. Kuśalasya upasampada. Practice the virtues, that is when the mind is rooted in alobha, that is nongreed, liberality, including hospitality; adoṣa, nonhatred, evil, all-loving kindness; amoha opanya (?) wisdom. And why? When one is on the noble, eight-fold path-right understanding, right thinking, right speech, right bodily action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration—there is that oozing joy and delight. And that is the finest substitute. Men, because of avidyā, have not tasted delight. Because of his weakness, they thought mokṣa,... (knock on door)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): ...that it was here in this earth when they indulge in sensualities. (More people coming in)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. Jaya. (pause) You are from India? (Hindi—few sentences with guest) So we are therefore presenting Kṛṣṇa, the most delightful feature. So chanting and dancing before Kṛṣṇa, taking His prasādam, and practicing delightful nature, awakening the delightful consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as this is taking practical shape, all these European, American boys, Canadian, African, they are becoming delightful, and with great delight, they are chanting, dancing and taking prasādam.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Go on.

Pradyumna: "...who is the full-fledged Absolute Truth. Brahman is His transcendental bodily effulgence, and Paramātmā is His partial representation. As such, Brahman or Paramātmā realization of the Absolute Truth is but a partial realization. There are four different types of living beings. The karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis and the devotees. The karmīs are materialistic, whereas the other three are transcendental. The first-class transcendentalists are the devotees who have realized the Supreme Person. The second-class transcendentalists are those who have partially realized the plenary portion of the Absolute person. And the third-class transcendentalist are those who have barely realized the spiritual focus of the Absolute Person."

Reporter: Who are those three, jñānīs...?

Prabhupāda: Jñānīs, yogis...

Reporter: And karm...

Prabhupāda: Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis...

Reporter: And bhaktas.

Prabhupāda: So karmīs are not transcendentalists. They're materialists. But jñānīs, yogis and bhaktas, they're transcendentalists.

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: Suffering another way. Nobody is, is free from suffering. I have already explained. There are three kinds of suffering. So who is free from this suffering? You may not be suffering from any bodily disease, but you may be suffering from mental agony. You may not be suffering from mental agony, but you may suffer, suffering imposed by others. There are so many suffering. This place is suffering. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This place is for suffering. Duḥkhālayam. Duhkha means suffering, alayam means place. Asasvatam. And still you cannot make adjustment. You, if you say "All right, let there be a little suffering. Let me stay here," that also will not be allowed. You will be kicked out: "Get out!" Then you have to accept another body. You do not know what kind of body. So these things are there. Don't think that a little happy life for ten years or twenty years is the solution of your problem. That is not solution. Real solution is different.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is necessities of life. Because you have got this body, so you must supply the necessities of the body. That we supply. Not only that. We want to keep men in so peaceful condition that he's not disturbed by mental anxieties, bodily disease, natural disturbances and fighting or quarreling with other living entities. So when he's perfectly in peaceful condition of life, he can save time for advancement in spiritual consciousness.

Reporter: Sure, so...

Prabhupāda: But aim is that his life, everyone's life is meant for spiritual realization. So to, in order to achieve this end of life he must be kept in peaceful condition of life.

Yogeśvara: He asks: "In order to achieve these goals is it our intention to do like the Christians and make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side. Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down here. Take this pad, comfortable seat.

Guest (2): I know that our bodies are not eternal, and we have to leave them, and some are made male bodies and some are made female bodies. But our spirits, our souls, are there any difference?

Prabhupāda: No. As spirit soul there is no difference. Bodily difference is material.

Guest (2): Why is there a bodily difference?

Prabhupāda: Because you desired a body like that. God is so kind, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, whatever you desire, He fulfills. So this fulfillment requires a certain condition. So the body is conditional.

Guest (2): I don't know enough to ask you any questions, but I'm very happy to be here.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to understand?

Guest (2): No, no.

Haṁsadūta: She says she doesn't know enough to ask you any more questions but she's very happy to talk with you.

Guest (2): I think the devotees inspiring me a little. (end)

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya

śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino 'nityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

(BG 2.14)

If one is engaged in his cultivation of spiritual life, then he should tolerate all these bodily pains and pleasure. Because they come and go. Just like you are medical man, you treat, some patient. Suppose he's attacked with fever. Everyone knows that fever has come; after some time, it will go away. So the one who is cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not very much disturbed with fever. He knows that it has come, it will go automatically. If we fast for few days. There is a Bengali proverb, jvaranpar ketanadali palab...(?) If you receive one unwanted guest and fever, you don't give him eat. Then it will go away. Unwanted guest, if you do not give him food, he'll go away. Even a fever also, if you don't eat, it will go automatically. So after all, these things come and go. The example is given, śīta-uṣṇa. Śīta means winter and uṣṇa means summer. As the summer comes and go, winter comes and go, so these kinds of sufferings, they come and go. So Kṛṣṇa is advising, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Therefore a brāhmaṇa's qualification is titikṣa. Śamo damaḥ śaucaṁ titikṣa, toleration. They're not very much bothered with the bodily pains and pleasure. They come and go. They're engaged in real business, how to realize Brahman. So if one is engaged in the prime business of life, Brahman understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā, for him these bodily pains and pleasure becomes minor things. Therefore, we see such examples, that one saintly person is living in the Himalayan mountain. There is snowfall, there is no proper place, still they live.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But in the spiritual world, the name, "water," and the substance water, is the same. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is the same. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa, you immediately directly contact with Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter (3): What do you see as being the future of the world? What will happen? Will there be an end?

Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.

Reporter (3): Yes, but what do you see happening to the actual world? Do you see any... You know, with Christianity and other religions?

Prabhupāda: Eh, what is that?

Reporter (3): You know, with Christianity and other religions, the world has...

Prabhupāda: The Christianity, if you...

Reporter (3): ...a beginning and an end.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We also believe that, that the world has a beginning, and it has an end. Anything material. Just like my body, your body. It has got a beginning from the father, mother, and again it will end. So anything material, it has beginning and end. But the, within the body, the spirit soul, the spirit soul has no beginning, no end.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But these rascals, even though are suffering three kinds of pains, tri-tāpa-yatna. Just like why you are covered? Because there is pain. Severe cold, similarly severe heat. So we are suffering, either summer season or winter season. We are suffering, tri-tāpa-yatna. There is suffering from our mind, from our body—this is natural suffering. There is bodily suffering, mental suffering, then suffering caused by other living entities. So we are always suffering. But still they're thinking that "We are happy." The disease is already there. Ah? Just like the Arabian do not want to give you petrol. That means there's suffering caused by other nations. So this is going on. They're simply trying to settle up. But the suffering is there. But they're not in their knowledge, that in spite of all their endeavors, the sufferings are there. What is the cause? Then whom shall I go to ask why the suffering is there? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you must approach a person who knows how the suffering should be mitigated.

Yaśomatīnandana: But there's so many so-called gurus, Prabhupāda, how...

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot go to the so-called.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.

Hṛdayānanda: That wouldn't be very good for a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But they have no sense. These birds are feedies(?) or their bodily extension is so much. I think they're feedies(?).

Hṛdayānanda: They're what.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Just see how they are experienced. They're not afraid of the ocean, although they are very small. They know how to save him. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is there within the heart. They are giving, "Now get off." They immediately get off.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: No one equal to or greater than.

Prabhupāda: No, that you cannot find here in this material world. Anyone has relative position. Everyone will find somebody is greater than him, somebody is lower than him. He's not absolute, nobody. A rough estimate of supremacy: if one man has got, is very rich, he's considered great. If he has got influence, if he has got bodily strength, bodily beauty, wisdom, or renunciation... These are the six items for calculating a man's greatness. Therefore when you speak, "God, the Supreme," He must possess all these things. That is the definition given by Parāśara Muni. The other day we were discussing. Somebody said, "This is all imagination." Why imagination? Who was telling?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientist.

Prabhupāda: Scientist! (laughs) So how, why it is imagination? Your idea of supremacy, you must define. How do you accept here in this material world a person as supreme? Why? Why you accept Nixon as supreme person within your state? What is the cause?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because he has some power.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Rūpānuga: On the sun planet.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. There are also living entities. They are very glowing, fiery. Therefore the whole sun planet is glowing.

Rūpānuga: By their bodily light.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is only one sun planet, and in Vaikuṇṭha all the planets are like sun. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, na tad bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ (BG 15.6). There is no necessity of electricity or moonlight or sunlight. Here it is necessity because here only glowing planet is the sun. But in the Vaikuṇṭha, each and every planet is glowing. Therefore there is no need of sun. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no necessity of illumination of sun, moon or electricity.

Prajāpati: Spirit soul, it is also luminous like that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is luminous, how it is keeping your body warm? As soon as it goes away, immediately cold. Immediately cold. Finished, all temperature finished. These are the evidences.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No.

Prajāpati: But is it true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer if his disciples act in sinful ways?

Prabhupāda: The same way. Bodily suffering. Infection. The spiritual master accepts the all infection. So as the infection acts on the body, so there is little suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says, "All the sinful reaction of the surrendered soul..." So spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. So he has also to accept. (break) ...the injunction is one should not accept many disciples. But for preaching work we have to do that. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to finish my thesis, so I won't be able to come every day in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do your duty. (break)

Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm so sorry that you have to suffer cause we're such rascals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I'll not suffer.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are mad. Still, we have to do that. Madmen does not, he doesn't think that "I require anyone's help." But still, the father, mother, guardian, government, gives him help. We are not dependent on their decision; we are dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī: Vaiṣṇava is unhappy seeing others unhappy. Otherwise, they have no unhappiness. They are unhappy seeing that "This rascal is unnecessarily suffering." That is unhappiness of Vaiṣṇava. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I have no, any problem, but I'm simply thinking of these rascals, that for some temporary happiness they make so gorgeous arrangement, and forgotten their real business." Just like all these... What is this city? At any moment, it will be finished, but... Just like they're flying, fleeing some other place, "America will be destroyed." So why they have spoiled so much energy? They do not know where to apply the energy for real benefit. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called as mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, duṣkṛtina: showing very good merit for this big, big building, big, big road... Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But duṣkṛti. Duṣkṛti means for useless purpose, real purpose missing. They have no information of the soul within the body; simply they are engaged in the bodily activities. The soul is neglected.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. I mean to say that sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. When you accept guru equal to Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot make such distinction.

Dr. Patel: Bodily distinction...

Prabhupāda: Then why bodily or anything!?

Dr. Patel: It is very important.

Prabhupāda: It is the... No, no, no. They cannot make, say distinc...

Dr. Patel: The body, this body...

Prabhupāda: Cinmaya...

Dr. Patel: ...becomes ill and he has got to come to a doctor sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Body, that... If...

Dr. Patel: But that, Kṛṣṇa's body is not that body.

Prabhupāda: Not only, not only guru. Anyone who is spiritually advanced, he has no more material body.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, somehow or other, they have gone to some extent. Never mind the mosquito. Let bite. I am not this body."

Dr. Patel: (laughs) You have hypnotized them.

Prabhupāda: No, actually they are doing. Although we see that from bodily point of view they have become weak, but they don't care for it. They... You see. If they had been weak how they are chanting and dancing saṅkīrtana? They are not weak at all. (Hindi) (break) "Now let me dance." Then I shall jump over your head." (Patel laughs) This is philosophy. "Now I am dāsa, then I become your master."

Dr. Patel: How can you be master when I am nothing? When I am dāsa, then I will be nothing before you.

Prabhupāda: That is voidism. You are something. How you are nothing?

Dr. Patel: How can you be the master of a master?

Prabhupāda: That is not possible, but these Māyāvādīs tries for this.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just like bodily action. Now you feel call of nature. So you have to pass urine.

Chandobhai: No, that is correct.

Prabhupāda: That's all

Dr. Patel: Does not attach.

Chandobhai: That action, you're not attached.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: At least, you are, you are...

Chandobhai: Udāsī, udāsīno... (break)

Prabhupāda: The sum total is how to become guṇātīta. That is bhakti-yoga.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Adhyātma. Adhyātma means bodily and mentally.

Chandobhai: Ah, bodily and mentally, yes.

Dr. Patel: Adhyātma? Bodily and mentally?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Mentally. Spiritually... Inner existence.

Prabhupāda: No. Adhyātmam. Adhyātma. Ātma means body, mind and the soul, but here adhyātma means the body and the mind. That is material nature. The body and mind is made of material nature. (break) ...creation.

Chandobhai: Creation, yes.

Prabhupāda: So by working with the body, we create another creation.

Dr. Patel: Bhūta-bhāvodbhava...

Prabhupāda: Just like now I am a human being. Next life I may be a demigod, I may be a dog. That I create. That is sarga.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Dr. Patel: Sticks, clothings, lunchbags and everything.

Prabhupāda: Everything. This is God.

Girirāja: "He expanded Himself to become exactly like the boys, who were of all different features, facial and bodily construction, and who were different in their clothing and ornaments and in their behavior and personal activities. In other words, everyone has different tastes."

Dr. Patel: Here I read about Him. (indistinct) From First Chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bhāva-samanvitaḥ. What is that? Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā-bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). The bhajana is there...

Dr. Patel: "You come in my bhāva, and then bhaja."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāva is the previous condition of prema. (break) ...life there are so many varieties, temperature and focus of light, but actually, the heat and light is coming from the fire. So in spite of all varieties of degrees of heat and light, it is one because it is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. (break) Because original is taken away and he has to satisfy their mother, other the mothers will cry, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, my boy went with you. Where he is?"

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the mercifulness has gone. And what to speak of religiosity? That is completely gone. These things will reduce: mercifulness, religiosity, memory, bodily strength, and so many, eight, eight. They are mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Religious principles.

Pañcadraviḍa: And you were writing that it is just a little bit of truthfulness is left.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You secure dhātun from the tree. Ask them. The three dhātun they gave, that is finished. (break) ...water is full, one can take bath.

Mahāṁsa: Swimming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: ...that these Old and New Testament and Koran, they are the śāstras of the (sic:) yauvanas. They are not the same as the Vedic śāstras. They are not as... They are not bona fide like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: That can be experienced in the present.

Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And practically, you are coming from different groups-Americans, Indians, Africans—but you don't think yourself as American or Indian or African.

O'Grady: But the system insists that you do.

Bhagavān: The world as it is, the society, the materialistic society, puts these bodily demands...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The materialistic society means duality.

O'Grady: But that's unavoidable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

O'Grady: Because of your physical existence...

Prabhupāda: Unavoidable, yes...

O'Grady: And your personal spiritualism as well.

Prabhupāda: But it can be avoided in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like the leaf of lily. It is in the water but it does not touches the water.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Yogeśvara: There are stones on the ground, too.

Bhagavān: A little material benefit, that increase, they take to be spiritual.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gymnastic. Just like a man, by bodily exercise, he becomes a little strong. His digestive function becomes very easy, he can eat more. He can enjoy more sex life. These benefits they want. And if you promise all these benefits, they become attracted. And they cannot understand, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, we do not accept anymore material body, but go to back to home, back to... These things they cannot understand.

Yogeśvara: Can we take a picture right here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: It is beyond their understanding.

Bhagavān: We are the only ones who are preaching like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual benefits, they do not understand. What is this building? This is also old construction?

Bhagavān: It's a church. (asking someone:) Is that from the Roman empire? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in right position. All wonderful buildings, there is no doubt. Such huge buildings in any other parts of the world is not visible. Just the thickness of the building.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: "You are calling us animals?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering. Why you have caught me? What right you have got to punish me? Because we are the same. You are doing in a larger scale, I am doing in a small scale. That is the difference." So he was set free, "Yes." Alexander the Great, he was sensible man, "Yes, what I am doing? The same thing in a bigger scale that's all." So these rascal, actually, they are animals, but they are declaring advancement. What advancement? The same thing: eating, sleeping, sex and defending. That is animal... The dogs also do like that. They also eat, they also sleep, they have sex life. Now they are coming to the dog's life. A dog, just like street, they have sex life. They are coming, advance. This is advancement, that "We have become now pure dog. So long it was hidden, now we are open." This is the civilization, animal civilization.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So it is confirmed by the greatest authority, and if we practice... This practice can be done in the association of devotees. And that is perfection of life. There are some conditions about self-control: no meat-eating, no fish, no eggs, no illicit sex life, and no intoxication, even smoking, drinking tea, and no gambling. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very easy. And everyone can perform it without undergoing the bodily exercises, which is sometimes difficult for a common man. So one can adopt this bhakti-yoga process and become perfect. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If one becomes accustomed to this habit and at the time of death, he thinks of Kṛṣṇa, then his life is perfect. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: Then he said that so is it not that God, the person, this divine essence, is a superperson, an evolved person, and not exactly somebody impersonal. Like he said that in Śaṅkarācārya's philosophy there is the conception of tat. So is not this tat conception, this divine essence, this superperson...

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is divine essence. God is divine essence, just like you have volumes of milk and you churn it, then you get so much butter. So the butter is the essence of the milk. Similarly, the spirit is vast, all-pervading. The example, another example, is just like the sunshine universally spread, very big. Then you concentrate the sunshine, it is sun globe. And if you still concentrate, you will see within the sun globe there is sun-god. So he is the essence of this light, the sunshine light, the sun globe light, and the person—sun-god, Vivasvān, he is person—he is the essence among all this light. That is explained in the Brahma-samhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). The whole creation means expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). By expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, this Brahman, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam, tad brahma (Bs. 5.40). That Brahman. Brahman is..., just like the sunshine is the expansion of the bodily rays of sun-god.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just like I am a living being; I have got living force. You have got living force. But we are talking as person.

Yogeśvara: His question is: how is it that the soul is also a person?

Prabhupāda: Because I am soul, you are soul, we keep our person. That is person. (French)

Yogeśvara: He suggests that we are only individuals, distinct, because of the bodily difference, that now we are persons, but afterwards we become one.

Prabhupāda: Not bodily. Because you are individual, therefore you have got individual body. Just like my coat. It is cut according to me, not I am according to the coat. The dress is made according to the person, not the person becomes according to the dress. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that to... He doesn't see the application. He says if we're just...

Prabhupāda: Why not application? Why not application?

Yogeśvara: He says it's more important to resolve the problems of why man is suffering rather than discuss whether the soul is a person or not.

Prabhupāda: Because he has got different dress, different person.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So that is insanity. We are actually the living force, soul, but we are identifying at the present moment with the material body. Everyone is thinking, "I am Japanese, I am Englishman, I am German, I am Indian, I am white, I am black," but that is his insanity. So this insanity should be cured, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And when he understand that he is spirit soul, he should be engaged in the business of the spirit soul. And because he is misidentifying himself with this body he is engaged with the bodily activities. So when he stops his bodily activities and he begins his spiritual activities, then he will be cured. So far bodily, I mean to say, pains and pleasure, that will be automatically cured when he understands that he is not body. Just like I feel heat and cold on account of this body. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: They believe that the soul and the body is one thing.

Prabhupāda: How it is one?

Pṛthu Putra: He says we have one body, we have the soul, and these two things cannot be separated.

Prabhupāda: How the man becomes dead? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the man is like a phenomenon. He appears and he disappears. And when he disappears, he merge in this cosmic force.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Everything is emanation from God. That is our Vedānta-sūtra. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Whatever things are there... In the Bible, also there is... "Everything comes from Him, what is made." Yesterday, we were reading? Yes. So whatever is created, that is made out of God. And the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman, the Supreme Brahman." So the impersonal feature is an expansion of God's energy. Just like the sunshine is expansion of the energy of sun, so the sunshine is resting on the bodily rays of the sun-god. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The resting place of the impersonal Brahman is God, Kṛṣṇa. Find out this verse, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And I do believe that at the actual moment still, the treasure in the European peoples, the different peoples, who went through the war, through concentration camps, through battlefields and bombing nights, are hidden in their hearts certain moments when death was near and they were wounded and nearly torn in pieces. Because they had a certain experience they survived. And again and again, when I give a lecture, I have two or three people, waiting, telling me, "Now you just reminded me an experience long ago, ten days ago, two months ago, when I thought I was a little bit crazy, and now I understand it has been the experience, perhaps the most important of my life, on which I should have built my future inner way." And these experiences are still there. And once people understand, they don't need a war and a battleship and a concentration camp and a bombing night to take serious certain inner experiences when they are suddenly are touched by this divine reality, and they suddenly feel that this bodily existence is not lasting at all.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That we can experience every night.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: When we dream, my body is left on the bed and I go somewhere. That we experience, that I am separate from this body. At that time I forget my, this body is lying down on the bed. I am acting in a different atmosphere. So and again, in daytime, I forget that at night I was in a different body, and I went to such and such place or on the sky I was flying. I forget. At night I forget this body and at daytime I forget that body. But I am existing. Therefore I am not this body. I am existing in this body and that body, but that body I have forgotten, and this body I forget. So this is a structure on my mind only. Actually I am different from the mind. And that is self-realization. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ (BG 3.42). Find out this verse. Manasas tu parā buddhir buddhes tu yaḥ saḥ. That's it. It is in the Third Chapter, I think.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: Translate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, translate. (German) This is the basic principle of knowledge, that "I am not this body. I am the active principle within this body." Then further knowledge can be understood. This is the beginning of knowledge, that "I am not this..." At the present moment everything... That I was explaining to the professor, that we are accepting this body as self, and self-interest means this bodily interest. Explain this. (German) So the whole trouble is on the platform of this misconception that "I am this body." Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this platform what is knowledge. First of all one must know that "I am not this body." When he understands this basic principle of knowledge, then further knowledge can be advanced. That is explained very nicely step by step in this book Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: That this goes together. (German)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the thing is that if my life is based on false conception that "I am this body," so the bodily appreciation of beauty or any other thing, that is also false. That is also false. If I am not this body, then anything conceived in relation with this body, that is false. (German)

Vedavyāsa: He says that usually we see the body in connection with beauty or health. But there is another possibility, to use the body as a transparent medium to conceive the Absolute Truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained here. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That means with this body you should not waste your time like the birds and beasts but utilize it for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. That is reality.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: Contaminated?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to.... By nature's law. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, (indistinct). There are three qualities—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa and mixed up. At first mixing it becomes nine and again mixing up it becomes 81. Each quality there are thousands and thousands of varieties and that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of life. So, it is by the God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and award the quality. It is not man-made law. That there may some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, whether small pox or whatever or (indistinct), you must develop. Therefore desireless. Desireless means material desires. Material desires begins with this designation. Just like the child, he has got a childish body and he plays like a child. The same child when he'll get a youthful body (indistinct). The soul is the same but on account of the type of the body, he is acting. This is material. Small child in the childhood talks like nonsense, people enjoy it. But the same child when he is grown up, if he talks like a nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed, the circumstances have changed. This is (indistinct) that we have changed this body and on account of the bodily situation we are acting different. That they do not understand. There is not school or college, they do not know about the soul and soul changing different positions, different bodies. In this way he remains materially entangled and the real relief is to get out of this bodily consciousness and advance in spiritual life.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Guest (1): Yes, yes, I see.

Prabhupāda: So the modern civilization is making tigers, how he can be bodily strong and kill others, and discover atomic bomb. They are busy only on these things. The dog's business, how to attack another dog. That's all.

Guest (1): This will be a very nice country here for your community.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): And I think a very, very good example for the people around.

Prabhupāda: But the advanced human beings, they come to shoot here.

Guest (1): Yes.

Haṁsadūta: (translates to German)

Guest (1): And then it will be finished. And later it will be finished.

Prabhupāda: The animals, they are living in their own atmosphere, and these people, they come to kill them. Killing business has become very prominent at the present moment, and therefore they are being killed in the womb of the mother, abortion and killing child. That they do not know. Nature will not excuse you. You are killing; you'll be killed within your mothers' womb. You'll never see the light of the sun. You go on being killed, one after another, as many animals you have killed. They do not know. And time will come in this age when there will be no food and man will kill man and eat. That time is coming. Yes. They are now killing animal, but animal lives on this grass and grains. When there will be no grass, no grains, where they will get animal? They'll kill their own son and eat. That time is coming. Nature's law is that you grow your own food. But they are not interested in growing food. They are interested in manufacturing bolts and nuts.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: So the God, He is also with me always as friend. So one, it is said in the Upaniṣad, there are two birds in one tree. The two birds means I, individual soul, and God, the Supreme Soul. The individual soul is limited within this body. And God is everywhere, in every body, in every atomic particle, everywhere. Because I am individual soul, I can understand my bodily pains and pleasure. But I cannot understand your bodily pains and pleasure. But God, being all-pervading, He can understand my pains and pleasure, He can understand your pains and pleasure, He can understand cats' and dogs' pains and..., everyone. This is the difference between me and God. Sometimes they mistake, because God is also within this body, I am also within this body, therefore they think that there is no other individual soul than God, therefore I am God. So if I am God, then you are also God. And if there is more than one God, there is not God. God is one. There cannot be two. So if I think I am God, then everyone is also God, so God becomes plural, so there is not God. God is one. Therefore, God is great, we are small. In quality we are one. Just like the president and the citizen, as man they are one. But in power, the citizen and the president, they are different. So these things can be understood if one is sober and very great thinker: they can understand that God is situated with me, He can help me also.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Just like gymnastic. You exercise; you become bodily strong. That's all.

Guest (2): Sai Baba?

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba, he also says, "I am Bhagavān." Therefore he's bogus. How you can say yourself that you are Bhagavān, God? What is your power? What you have shown? And this is cheap. Now, supposing Sai Baba is God. So people accept him God, why? Because he shows some jugglery. He creates little gold. Is it not? So if, by creating gold, he is God, then there is bigger God who has created gold mine. Why shall I go to this tiny god? I must go to the big God who has created gold mine. This is common sense. But foolish people, they have no common sense even. Therefore it is called mūḍhā. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair mohita, mūḍhā nābhijānāti. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like mostly people take: "The nature is all in all." The scientist, they take nature. But nature is matter. So where is our experience—the matter is working automatically? Where is our experience? Hm? Matter... Does matter work automatically? What is your opinion?

Hanumān: It's a chain of reaction.

Prabhupāda: Reaction. First of all there must be beginning of action, then reaction.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: God has all the qualities that you can conceive. It is generally not... Bhaga(?), it is taken as six, six opulences. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means possessing. Bhagavat. Bhagavat-śabda. Bhaga means opulence, and vat means one who possesses. And the first word in bhagavat-śabda is bhagavān. This bhaga means six kinds of opulences: riches, then fame, then bodily strength, influence, knowledge, beauty, and renunciation. These are opulences. If one is very rich, people are attracted. If one is very reputed, people are attracted. If one is very strong, people are attracted. Influential-attracted. If one is very beautiful, man or woman, he is also attractive. If one is very wise, he's attractive. And one who is renounced, he's also attra... So Kṛṣṇa has got all these qualification in full. That is the definition of God. Anyone who possesses all these qualities in fullness, not partially, that is God. This is the definition of God. Not that "I can produce one ounce of gold," but if he can produce all the mines of gold, he is God. Not cheap God. In that way everyone is God. (end)

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: The difference is transcendence is beyond our mind, bodily activities, mental activities or intelligence. The European philosophers and transcendentalists, they do not know actually what is transcendence. They understand that there is something, but they do not know what it is. Therefore they speculate by their imperfect senses. Gradually it becomes craziness. Therefore you find that defect.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): So do you mean to say that this is just a contemplative thing that doesn't really have a active influence upon the society to change the different...?

Prabhupāda: No, we must first of all understand that our senses are imperfect. Just like we are sitting in this room. We have got our eyes, but we cannot see what is there, going on, beyond this wall. The sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and we are seeing just like a disc. So the eyelid is just near the eyes, but we cannot see what is the eyelids. If the light is off, we cannot see. So we can see under certain condition. Then what is the value of our seeing? If we, even if we manufacture telescope, that is also manufactured by the imperfect senses, so it is also not perfect. So anything understood by manipulating our imperfect senses, that is not real knowledge. So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge. Just like if we contemplate or speculate who is my father, it is never possible to understand who is my father. But if we receive the words from mother that "Here is your father," that is perfect. Therefore the process of knowledge should be not to speculate but to receive it from the perfect person. If we receive knowledge from a mental speculator, that is not perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that for example he could listen to everything that you were saying, and then he could repeat it, and someone might say to him that "Oh, you are an expert. You are a master," but actually he's not. He's simply repeating.

Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: This is the meaning is there, that our mind, our bodily activities, our words, they are all limited. They are all limited. Do you accept or not?

Professor: By time.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. It may be by time. Suppose a child, he can say, "I am now foolish for the time." But he is foolish at that time. That is not argument, that this child expects to become an M.A. That does not mean he can say he is M.A. at that time. So you cannot make time. Unless you are perfect in knowledge, you cannot say that you are in knowledge. Time, everyone has got the chance. In time he will be in perfect knowledge. That is not... There is no disagreement. But so long he is imperfect, he must admit that he is imperfect. Now, a businessman, a small businessman, he is trying to become millionaire, and if he says, "I will become millionaire in time," that does not mean he is millionaire. He must first of all become millionaire. Then he should claim.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: There is no need... There is no need because dog is busy for his bodily requisition. And if you are simply busy for your bodily requisition, then what is the difference between you and dog? We have to take the principle.

Professor: Why is that difference so important for you?

Prabhupāda: No, no, fundamentally what is the difference? The dog is whole day busy to find out his food, and if you are also busy to find out your food, then where is the difference?

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying, "Because I am not this body, therefore it doesn't matter if I'm the owner of this body or not."

Prabhupāda: No, then you have to... As soon as you decide that you are not this body, you are transcendental to this body, then you have to understand what is the transcendental nature and what is your business, what you should do. These things will come. At the present moment, because I identify me with this body, I am simply busy with this bodily concept of life. So as soon as you understand that "I am not this body," that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman." That is the beginning of real knowledge.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: The physical defect... Just like a driver of the car, and when his car is damaged, the driver becomes very sorry that "My car is now broken, damaged," but is the driver the carriage? Sometimes a valuable car is damaged and the proprietor or the driver, he becomes very sorry, almost half-dead, "Oh, my car is lost." So this is due to his too much attraction for the car. When the machine car stops (it) does not mean the driver is damaged. But he thinks, "Now, I am finished. My car is damaged." But although he is not the car, he thinks that he is damaged. So that is mental disease. He is different from the car, but he thinks that he is damaged by the damage of the car. And if he knows correctly, that "What is that? I will get another new car," what is the cause of suffering? The driver is not the car, but on account of his too much absorption, identifying the car with him, he suffers. So if the psychiatrist informs him that "Why you are sorry? You are not the car," then he is cured. So the modern civilization defect is that he is not this body, but he does not know it. Therefore, in the Vedic literature it is said, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: (SB 10.84.13) "Anyone is identifying himself with this body which is made of material element," yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, "and in bodily relationship he is thinking his family is protector, his nation is protector, in this way, one who lives, he is no better than the animal." Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā... You find out this verse, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So the driver is not in order—he may create disaster at any moment. So the insanity is not of the car, but the insanity is of the driver. So when we feel problems of the humanity, it means the insanity of the soul, not of the body. And because the driver, or the soul, is not taken care of, therefore so many problems are coming in the body. Just like, if one man takes care of hygienic principle, his bodily ailments are less, similarly, if the driver is kept in proper sanity, then there will be no accidents in the car. Another example: just like the bird in, the cage. If you take care of the cage only and do not supply any food to the bird, it will cry, "Tanh! Tanh! Tanh! Tanh!" (aside to devotee:) This gentleman comes. Give him a seat. So the problem is: if we don't take care of the driver or the bird in the cage, the human problems will not diminish, it will increase. Keeping the car in good order does not mean taking care of the driver. And if you don't take care of the driver, the disasters of the car will increase. So what is the program of taking care of the driver? Factually, they do not know what is the driver. And what to speak of taking care of it? This is the problem, real problem. Do you think it is all right or not?

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: This is the best humanity's service. They were all fools and rascals and we educated them for spiritual understanding. The material... If I think "I am this body," then I am no better than cat and dog. That is going on. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Only this bodily relationship. But suppose you have come to me, can I ask you whether you are body or something else?

Reporter: Swamiji, perhaps the deficiency is in my question. Let me rephrase the question, if you'll permit. And I realize there isn't much air to breathe. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But I will make the question brief. My question has to do with karma-yoga in the outer world, for instance, in New York City. From what I understand, your disciples do not pursue the professions. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: No, we are also, we are also karma-yogī. We are also eating, we are also sleeping.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: ...he did not like to kill his cousin-brother. He said that "Even they usurp my kingdom, I do not wish to kill them." So this affection, this bodily affection, was not very much approved by Kṛṣṇa. He said that "You are talking like a non-Āryan." Anārya-juṣṭam. Anārya. "The Āryan, they do not think like that." Another place He says that "You are giving consideration on the body, but any learned man does not refer to body, either dead or alive. They, learned man, will give stress on the moving force of the body." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means basically on the moving force of the body.

Reporter: The moving force of...?

Prabhupāda: Of the body. Just like you are moving, I am moving. As soon as the moving force, whatever it is, is gone, then your body is a lump of matter, my body is a lump of matter.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: As soon as he come into knowledge.

Young man: But can one be egoistic and be spiritual at the same time, I mean, be proud of himself, not as a body, but proud of his state of the spirit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are bodily busy. Because I am identifying with this body, therefore my misunderstanding is there. But if I understand I am not this body, then my activities will be different. So first of all, you have to understand that I am not this body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. (break) ...with this body, we remain an animal, because animal cannot understand that he is not body. Try to understand that you are not this body. And what is the difficulty? When a...?

Young man: The difficulty is that I fear that if this body leaves me I'll no longer be. That's the difficulty, because it's difficult for me to imagine that when my brain doesn't work, I can't live, if I can live when my brain stops functioning. That's the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Difficulty is not there, but we have to understand from teacher. Just like the many subject of knowledge we do not understand in the beginning, but by hearing from the teacher, gradually we understand. So that teacher must be perfect, in full knowledge, and then we can understand from him. So we accept Kṛṣṇa. Because He is God, He is perfect. So we receive knowledge from Him, and that is Bhagavad-gītā. So knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or His pure servant, both of them are equal. They can give us that knowledge.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we say that the living entity is present within the atom by consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Hm? No. Consciousness will gradually develop according to the bodily situation.

Pañcadraviḍa: How does the jīva get out of the atom and take a gross body?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Pañcadraviḍa: How will that jīva..."

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Body is combination of atoms. How he gets out of the atom. Body is nothing but combination of many atoms. Everything material is combination of many atoms. That's all.

Pañcadraviḍa: The jīvas inside the atom, are they like impersonalists who are in the Brahman?

Prabhupāda: That you consider. He has not developed his consciousness. Practically, it is like dead.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): Russia.

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh... So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They're intelligent than these Punjabis. Punjabis, they have got bodily strength, not brain. So these Bengalis, in Mujjhamat Raman, that was his demands, that: "We are majority. Why they should govern us? We should govern over them." This is the movement. So, but they're already in power. So how to throw them out of power? So he negotiated in India, that: "You help us to separate from..." And India's interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation, that is India's interest. So India agreed to help them. How to help? They organized a false, er, soldiers. You know? What is called? Bahini. Mean a freedom soldier. They organized freedom soldier. And India consulted Russia. Russia was friendly, that: "We want to help Bangladesh." So they said: "Yes, you help. If there is fight, then we shall help you." This was the... So these bahini, sanan bahini, sandana bahini, or something like that, they organized, "freedom soldiers." The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers. They entered Bangladesh because East Bengal, West Bengal. And they started this freedom soldier.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Sometimes they claim that we should not claim that our choice is the true choice, but they don't understand that any of those meanings can be true at the same time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this body is true. We have got body. We don't say it is false. It is true. Bodily pains and pleasures we feel, so how can I say that the body is false? The body means bodily pains and pleasures, then we are affected, so how you can say it is false? Similarly the mind, and soul is absolute thing. Factually. So any item you take, you can understand by thorough study.

Paramahaṁsa: In some cases, in a more controversial case, the word chosen, or the meaning chosen for a particular Sanskrit word, may change the whole meaning of the verse, but because...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take the paramparā meaning. Because we are foolish, we cannot understand properly. Tad vijñārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Therefore, one has to go to guru and understand the meaning by paramparā. You cannot make your own meaning. The meaning is already there. But if you cannot understand, then you should approach guru and understand the meaning by paramparā.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Similarly God the person is important, and by His bodily rays the whole thing is going on. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). Brahmaṇo hi... Find out this verse-brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham.

Amogha:

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham

amṛtasyāvyayasya ca

śāśvatasya ca dharmasya

sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

Translation: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Just like they are taking petrol. This is natural resources. They are taking continually.

Paramahaṁsa: But he says the CSIRO, most of the people there are involved in researching how to exploit the natural resources more. So he's a little bit different because he's trying to present a clear warning that this is happening. But then again he doesn't have any potency to stop it. It seemed that when you were speaking to him he related bodily consciousness with the selfishness of the industrialists when they're exploiting natural resources like that.

Prabhupāda: They are doing so many things. They are killing cows for their own benefit. So many animals they are killing. Birds.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: That's the second person made man, become human, becomes a man.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is very important, but He is son, a very important son. Just like father may have many sons, but one of them may be very important, very good assistant to the father so Christ is like that. He is son of God, very important, He's helping God coming down to reclaim these fallen souls that "Come to God, why you are suffering here?" Son, He's very faithful and important son. But the others, they are also sons, but they have forgotten God. Therefore they are suffering. So sometimes He sends His son or His devotee and sometimes He comes Himself, that is Kṛṣṇa.

Jesuit: And He comes in bodily form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. God has... Why, the son has got body then the father has got body. Your son has got body so you have got your body. Without the father having body, how the son can get body?

Jesuit: I don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: If... Suppose your son, you have got this body, so your father must have body.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Their position is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. These rascals, avajānanti, I mean to say, cares a fig for Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is also a very big man, that's all." Just the Arya Samaji says in India, that "We don't accept Him as God, but He is a very big man, a very big politician, like that." So that is described in the Bhagavad..., avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). The paraṁ bhāvam, what is the actual significance, that is, they do not know. What is the actual significance of the soul and soul platform, spiritual..., that they do not know. They are studying from the mental platform. So they have to go beyond mental platform, avāṅ mānasa-gocara, beyond bodily mental platform. Then they will understand.

Harikeśa: So we shouldn't bother with such tests?

Prabhupāda: No.

Siddha-svarūpa: By submitting to them we're actually... We're endorsing that they are dealing with the spiritual.

Prabhupāda: When they come first of all, you have to inform them that "We are working on the platform of the soul. What do you know about the soul?"

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Harikeśa: You cannot understand the consciousness of a devotee by testing his body or his mind.

Prabhupāda: No, consciousness means... That is mental platform. Consciousness is also in different platform, bodily consciousness, mental consciousness, intellectual consciousness, then spiritual consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is spiritual consciousness.

Harikeśa: So there is no way they can understand. No way.

Prabhupāda: How they will understand? First of all let them explain what does he mean by soul? That they cannot explain. They take mind as the ultimate, that's all.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And they see whether or not the mind is moving like this or like this or like this or like that, and then they have a gauge which says, "This is perfect." So they're seeing... They're judging whether or not...

Prabhupāda: But we say, "Any position on the mental platform, it is all nonsense." Mano-rathena sato dhavato bahiḥ.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That depends on your management, how you are raising the children. If they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is all right. So far bodily defects, you might find. But we are denying from the very beginning, "I am not this body." So by finding some bodily defects how you will decide about the spirit? Because spirit is not this body. You cannot conclude that because there are some bodily defects, therefore he has got spiritual defect. That is not right conclusion. The same example: "because there are some dirty things in the Ganges, the Ganges is no more good." That conclusion is wrong.

Dr. Gerson: There has been a lot of bad propaganda that the children at Gurukula are unhappy and that they're not developing normally as children or human beings, and I would like to overcome that propaganda by showing that they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that the managers of the Gurukula, they should take care of. But if they follow the instruction which I have given for conducting Gurukula, then there is no question of... What is the general defect they are finding out?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By the material life, these are our field of activities. The body is a combination of all these things. Just like a huge computer machine. It is made of these material things, but the mechanical parts are very minute, different. All these are matter. But within this matter, because the soul is there, therefore the finest machine is working. Just like your composition machine, (imitates machine:) "Kut, kut, kut, kut, kut, kut." But one has to push the button; otherwise useless. However very nicely made the machine, without a living being's touch, it is useless. So all this big machine, body, is wonderful so long the soul is there. And as soon as the soul is out it is lump of matter, useless, not worth a penny. Throw it away. So we are giving importance to the machine, not to the person who is dealing with the machine. This is the folly of modern civilization. We are thinking like child, "The machine is working independently." But that is not the fact. The big airship, 747, is flying because the pilot is there, and the pilot is a soul, covered by another bodily machine. And that, that is missing point in the modern civilization, that who is working with the machine. That they do not know. That is ignorance.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Perceive?

Devotee (2): What does he experience when he cuts off the outer senses and is able to...

Prabhupāda: Outer senses, what do you mean by outer senses-dead?

Devotee (2): His bodily senses.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of outer senses. Senses purified. What do you mean by outer senses?

Devotee (2): The senses with which you perceive the outer gross...

Prabhupāda: That always remains. But when it is not purified, you perceive material things. When it is purified, you perceive spiritual things.

Devotee (2): So the same gross senses will be able to see spiritual things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is purified. Bhakti is the purifying process. I have already said. Not that the eyes are suffering from cataract disease, "Pluck out." That is Māyāvādī philosophy.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So they were habituated to all... Because that is a system in the European, American life. But now they are free. That is Professor Judah's remark in his letter. Have you got that? Yes. He has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, about our movement. He has read all our books. Here are, you have shown all these books? So he appreciates, many gentlemen appreciate, even the priestly class, they also appreciate. So this is a movement which is trying to create at least a section to become first-class. The first-class man does not mean that he is nicely dressed or very rich or very opulent. Generally, of course, a first-class man means good parentage, good education, good looking and nicely rich. That is the standard. But... That may be first-class position, but first-class man is different. First-class man means he is self-controlled, in the mind he is undisturbed, he is truthful, he is very clean, inside and outside, he is very simple, tolerant, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge, and believe in God. This is first-class man. There is no mention that he is rich, he is beautiful, bodily, or he is educated. Educated, this is a result of education. Real education means that he is self controlled. Controlling the mind, controlling the senses, truthful. He will speak truth in any circumstances. Even to his enemy he will speak the truth. And clean, and very simple, tolerant. And any knowledge, he has got some, I mean to say, strength over it. Ultimate knowledge, Brahmān, he believes in that and he has... Brahma janātītī brāhmaṇaḥ, This is first-class man. So it is not expected that everyone will become first-class. but there must be a section in the society, ideal first-class. And they will be advisor to the rest. These brāhmaṇas, they will not take part in politics, but those who are politicians, administrators, they should take advice from these first-class men, how to rule, how to control, what is the ideal.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: There is no purport of Devahūti?

Nitāi: "Here the word asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt is significant. Asat means 'impermanent,' 'temporary,' and indriya means 'senses.' Thus asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt means 'from being agitated by the temporarily manifest senses of the material body.' We are evolving through different statuses of material bodily existence sometimes in a human body, sometimes in an animal body—and therefore the engagements of our material senses are also changing. Anything which changes is called temporary, or asat. We should know that beyond these temporary senses are our permanent senses, which are now covered by the material body. The permanent senses, being contaminated by matter, are not acting properly. Devotional service, therefore, involves freeing the senses from this contamination. When the contamination is completely removed and the senses act in the purity of unalloyed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we have reached the sad-indriya, or eternal sense activities. The eternal sensual activities are called devotional service, whereas temporary sensual activities are called sense gratification. Unless one becomes tired of material sense gratification, there is no opportunity to hear transcendental messages from a person like Kapila. Devahūti expressed that she was tired. Now that her husband had left home, she wanted to get relief by hearing the instructions of Lord Kapila."

Prabhupāda: So this full book is the answer and question between mother and son. So, although she is mother, she has given birth to the child, but she has become now dependent on this child for good instruction. This is ideal society.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. If anyone wants to take advantage of it, he can take. We have got fifty books like this. Those who are interested in the science and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can read all these books. Otherwise, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, That will also help. The human civilization means everyone shall try to become first-class man. This is human civilization, not to remain like animals. That attempt is lacking now. Here the civilization is that the dog is jumping or running, and human being is running in a motor car, and he is thinking he is more civilized than the dog. But the business is running. That's all. The dog is having sex on the street, and the human being is having sex in a very nice decorated apartment and therefore he is civilized. But the business is the same. The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense. Therefore śāstra says, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samanyam etat paśubhir narāṇām: "This business of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is common to the animal and to the man." The man, if he does not understand what he is, why he is suffering this material tribulations, then he remains cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they cannot question, but human being can question. And he should take the answer from these books of knowledge. That is human life. Otherwise, so far eating, sleeping, sex and defense, that is common for the dogs and man. There is no difference. He is doing in his own way, we are doing in our own way, but the business is the same. So human being must go above these four businesses, the fifth business. The fifth business is how to understand God. Otherwise, the bodily four businesses, that is common. Even an ant, it is also eating. It is going from this place to that place: "Where is a grain of sugar?" And we are also running in car this way and that way: "Where is eating?" The hog is also running: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" So... (break) (child makes sounds) Is he chanting mantra? That small...

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi: Cow protection.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farming and cow protection and trade, this is meant for the third-class division. And worker, fourth-class. These divisions must be there. Then the society will go on very nicely. Exactly the same example, that if the different parts of the body—the brain, the arms, the belly and the legs—all are in order, the bodily function will go on very nicely. This is natural.

Woman reporter: Where do women fit into these four classes?

Prabhupāda: That I already explained. Women's position is subordinate to man. So if the man is first-class, the woman is first-class. If the man is second-class, the woman is second-class. If the man is third-class, the woman is third-class. In this... Because woman is meant for assisting man, so the woman becomes suitable according to the man, her husband.

Woman reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Woman reporter: Why?

Prabhupāda: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your bodily features are different from the man's features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So, but they say that except man, there is no soul?

Jayatīrtha: But now they say that no one has a soul.

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, the modern psychological definition is that man is a flesh and blood organism and that you can know man by studying his bodily processes.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you give life to the flesh and blood?

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is a problem.

Prabhupāda: Then it is foolishness.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, definitely.

Bahulāśva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.

Prabhupāda: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Why they were committing suicide?

Yadubara: Because everyone was very depressed. This is supposed to be enlightenment, a place of knowledge. But everyone was very depressed.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university and they taught me in psychology, and it was a priest. And they were teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use these textbooks that teach this materialism.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Purport. "Two persons, one in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the other in material consciousness, working on the same level, may appear to be working on the same platform, but there is a wide gulf of difference in their respective positions. The person in material consciousness is convinced by false ego that he is the doer of everything. He does not know that the mechanism of the body is produced by material nature, which works under the supervision of the Supreme Lord. The materialistic person has no knowledge that ultimately he is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such his bodily and mental activities should be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The ignorant man forgets that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is known as Hṛṣīkeśa, or the master of the senses of the material body, for due to his long misuse of the senses in sense gratification, he is factually bewildered by the false ego, which makes him forget his eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So this is false ego, to think of oneself as free. You are professor of economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I think I may remember. There is economist professor, Marshall? Marshall's economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Adolf Hitler adopted the idea of Aryan, but his criteria for Aryan was one who had blond hair and blue eyes.

Prabhupāda: That is bodily. (chuckles) That is another foolishness. Just like we have dress. So this dress of sannyāsī is not all. I must be real sannyāsī in knowledge, in education, in behavior, not that... Hitler studies by the dress. That is the foolishness. It is not by the dress, but by the quality. Dress is also required. As I am sannyāsī, I cannot dress otherwise. That is also essential. But if one judges, "Here is a sannyāsī," then he'll misled. That is being done. People are being exploited in the dress of a sannyāsī, although actually he is not sannyāsa. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "A sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa will be accepted by the outward feature." If somebody has got a thread only, two paisa worth, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. And when one takes a daṇḍa, he becomes a sannyāsī. This will be the identification in the Kali-yuga.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Brahmānanda: At the present moment, I was reading, there is one girl in America, New Jersey, teenage girl. And for some unknown reason she went to sleep one night, and in the morning she did not wake up. So they then rushed her to the hospital, and they have an artificial machine that is keeping her alive, and this has been going on for one month. All of her bodily functions are becoming more and more diminished, but still, by this machine, she is alive. Now this has gone on for one month. So now they don't know what to do with her. Should they keep her like this, just running on the machine, or should they stop the machine and then she will die? This is a big legal problem. They don't know what... If they stop the machine, they'll be accused of manslaughter.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some Catholic priest said that better to let her die, because this is God's way.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept the God's way and give up the machine.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: Is it vital to follow certain eating habits? I mean...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is how to purify ourself. So by... according to eating, the purification also... I think Mr. Bernard Shaw, he wrote one book that "You Are What You Eat." And that's a fact. We constitute our bodily atmosphere and mental atmosphere according to eating. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious movement recommends... Not the movement recommends. It is recommended in the śāstra that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you eat the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. Just like opposite way: if a tuberculosis patient eats something and if you eat the remnants, then you will be infected with the tuberculosis bacillus. Is it not? So similarly, if you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam, then you infect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our process. We don't take anything directly. We offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That helps us. We do not take anything... We cannot take anything from the restaurant or from the shop. No. We prepare everything, offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Purport: People in general are not very intelligent, and due to their ignorance they are most attached to the fruitive activities recommended in the karma-kāṇḍa portion of the Vedas. They do not want anything more than sense gratificatory proposals for enjoying life in heaven, where wine and women are available and material opulence is very common. In the Vedas many sacrifices are recommended for elevation to the heavenly planets, especially the jyotiṣṭoma sacrifices. In fact, it is stated that anyone desiring elevation to heavenly planets must perform these sacrifices, and men with a poor fund of knowledge think that this is the whole purpose of Vedic wisdom. It is very difficult for such inexperienced persons to be situated in the determined action of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As fools are attached to the flowers of poisonous trees without knowing the results of such attractions, similarly unenlightened men are attracted by such heavenly opulence and the sense enjoyment thereof. In the karma-kāṇḍa section of the Vedas it is said that those who perform the four monthly penances become eligible to drink the somarasa beverages to become immortal and happy forever. Even on this earth some are very eager to have somarasa to become strong and fit to enjoy sense gratifications. Such persons have no faith in liberation from material bondage, and they are very much attached to the pompous ceremonies of Vedic sacrifices. They are generally sensual, and they do not want anything other than the heavenly pleasures of life. It is understood that there are gardens called nandana-kanana, in which there is good opportunity for association with angelic, beautiful women and having a profuse supply of somarasa wine. Such bodily happiness is certainly sensual. Therefore there are those who are purely attached to material temporary happiness as lords of the material world."

Prof. Olivier: Well, so we are left in this twentieth century, this last part of the century, with a new global search for, or the truth of the spirit. We, of course, in the Western world are not familiar with the Gītā and so on.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Olivier: But our problem is basically, I think, the one that you raised, was how do we make... How do we make a reality, a scientific reality? And I think you were quite right. I think people, very few people, get the point that you were trying to make there.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, scientific reality. Therefore I raised that question. But nobody could reply properly. They thought it a kind of Hindu conception. No. That is not Hindu conception. That is the basic principle of living condition. We are changing body, and there are so many varieties of body. We may enter in any one of them after death. That is the real problem. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's work is going on. This body is a machine. This machine, just like a car, has been offered to us by material nature, by the order of God, Kṛṣṇa. And we are moving, transmigration. So the real purpose of life is to stop this migration, transmigration, perpetually from one body to another, one body to another, and revive our original, spiritual position so that we can live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. That is the aim of life. The whole Vedic conception is based on this principle.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Then why do they propose, "Prolong life"? What is the use of such prolonged life, stand up in a place without any power to move an inch and suffer all climatic disturbances? Is that very good life? Everyone is... Even if he lives for more years, the bodily, mental and external sufferings will be there. What is the use of living such prolonged life? Prolonged life, does it guarantee that these three kinds of miseries-bodily, mental and external, natural; there are so many disturbances—he will be free from all these disturbances? Simply dog's obstinacy, that's all.

Harikeśa: There's a Greek fable about that. There's a Greek fable that this one lady got some benediction that she would live forever, except she forgot to ask for eternal youth.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: She forgot to ask to always be young. So she was very, very old and decrepit, and finally they just put her in a jar, and some young boys were playing with the jar and they asked, "What do you want?" And she said, "I want to die."

Prabhupāda: Yes. When one suffers too much he commits suicide. Life becomes very troublesome. When the suffering is too much acute, they commit suicide. So that is not a solution, we have prolonged li... First of all there is no prolonged. Even accepting it is prolonged, what is the benefit?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But I think people would... Most people would go crazy if they didn't have any work.

Prabhupāda: No, that means their life is not properly conducted. And therefore the word laziness has come. Laziness is not actually the word. Laziness means minimizing the bodily labor and engaged in spiritual work. If you ask people, "Please come to our temple," who is coming? Because he says, "I have no time." But we are not working hard. So real aim of life is to... In German, I think, or somewhere there is classification: "Lazy intelligent, busy intelligent, lazy fool, and busy fool." So at the present moment (laughs) the whole world is full of busy fools. But the first-class man, he is lazy intelligent. Lazy and intelligent, that is first-class man. And second-class man, busy intelligent. And third class means lazy fool and fourth class means busy fool. When the fools are busy... Just like nowadays they are busy but they are fools. Like monkey, he is very busy. You see? And they prefer to be generation of monkey, busy fool. That's all. Fools, when he is busy, he is simply creating havoc. That's all. Better... Lazy fool is better than him because he will not create so much harm, but this busy fool will simply create harm. And first class-man is lazy intelligent. He knows the value of life, and soberly he is thinking. Just like all our great saintly persons. They were living in the forest, meditation, tapasya, and writing books. All, you will find, lazy intelligent. They are first-class men.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian lady (3): Can we purchase the house for our own staying?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building. What is the use? Just have a cottage and have garden. You'll live very peacefully. But they're constructing big, big skyscraper building in the downtown, and they will have to come here by car for some peace of mind, and in the meantime, accident, police. This is the civilization, nonsense civilization. At weekend they will go to the village, country, and during the week-time they will work hard. This is their civilization, with the risk of life, running motor car eighty miles' speed. Every moment there is risk. What is this civilization? Most ludicrous civilization. So farming means if you live in a farm... Just like in New Vrindaban they are doing. Produce your own food, live peacefully, fresh vegetable, fresh grains, fresh milk, and prepare so many nice milk preparation, kachori, halavā with ghee. Offer to the Deity. Eat sufficiently. What is the use of going outside? Simple life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you can organize that, that will be very nice.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So if you take spiritually advanced, the bodily care is already taken.

Dr. Patel: That is what I have learned. That you were saying before but then I got a postscript from one other devotee.

Prabhupāda: No, no. One thing, example, that dead body. Now, when the spirit is gone, now can you take care of the dead body?

Dr. Patel: It rots.

Prabhupāda: So long the spirit is there, it is all right. And as soon as the spirit is gone, it is simply lump of matter.

6: No, if you misuse it...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First... This is practical. You see the importance of the body is so long, as long as there is the spirit. So if you take spiritual care, the bodily care is automatically done. Just like we are. Are we not taking bodily care? But our main business is spiritual care.

Dr. Patel: But people are starving for twenty-four, I mean forty-eight days. You cannot starve for two days because you have got weakness of the mind. Mind and soul should be one and the body... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...transcend the bodily and mental platform. Then you come to the spiritual platform.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is the question of body. That is a fact. But he is attached with this body. So the body will not exist. That he cannot see. He has got spiritual business. That he is neglecting. Everyone at the present moment, all over the world, ask, "Are you engaged with your bodily activities or spiritual activities?" "What is the nonsense spirit? We are all body, this body, so long we have got." Even the big Professor Kotovsky, he said, "Swamiji, everything ends after the body. Why do you bother?"

Dr. Patel: I think Einstein was also saying the same thing. Einstein, Professor Einstein.

Prabhupāda: I do not know, but I talked with this gentleman privately. He said... He was a big man in Russia. He said, "Swamiji, after the end of the body everything is finished."

Dr. Patel: They know... These Russians are the only hundred-percent body conscious. The Carvakas. Who are they? They are descendants of Carvakas, these Russians.

Prabhupāda: No, in India also, all these political leaders, big ministers...

Dr. Patel: No, no. The Communism itself is Carvakism in a different way. Our sanātana-dharma is a communist-dharma, when you see the same eye, everyone in equal. But they don't want that way. They want other way. From body consciousness, not from soul consciousness, they want Communism. Sanātana-dharma preaches us Communism from soul consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Where is the understanding of soul? Everyone is puffed up with his body. Nobody considers even that "When I say this finger, 'my finger, my head, my leg...' "

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Death? He's already dead. What you can bring? Rascal, don't you see that he is already dead? If you have to bring something you have to bring life. Death is already there. (dog barking, woman yelling) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Bhāgavata has analyzed, yasyātmā-buddhi kunape tri-dhātuke. And this is the beginning of mistake, taking this body as everything and then bodily issues, bodily... Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. And because I have got relation with some woman... There are thousands and millions of women, but because I have got bodily relation with some woman, I am so much attracted. That is due to the body. Actually I am not attracted to the woman. There are many millions of women, but that particular woman, wife, because I have got bodily relation with her, I think, "Oh, she is mine." Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. Kalātrādiṣu, beginning from kalātra, then go on—children, grandchildren, father-in-law, mother-in-law, this one, this one. The beginning is the kalātra. If there is no kalātra, there is no father-in-law, mother-in-law. So sva-diḥ kalātrādiṣu. Then bhauma idya-dhiḥ—"This is my country. I am national," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this." Why? The body has grown from this land. You see, every, the whole world activities is going on on this basis. Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Idya. Idya means worshipable. The brain is full with this idea, dhiḥ. Dhiḥ means buddhi. The brain is congested with all these ideas. Then he wants to become a religious man. What is that? Now, bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. He goes to some holy place and takes bath. They go to Hardwar. The same Ganges in Calcutta, and the same Ganges in Hardwar, but he will go to Hardwar to take bath so that he may think that "I have come to some holy place." The holy place is Ganges, but Calcutta is not holy place and Hardwar is holy. Yes. Bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. Actually Hardwar or Vṛndāvana, such places are meant to see great saintly persons, to take some knowledge from them.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all let me, let me understand. This bodily transformation does not make any difference. Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth. So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference. Because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. First of all the body. The bodily conscious even...

Dr. Patel: He has come.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: He has come.

Prabhupāda: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18). This is the... So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human beings or dogs, they are the same. But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not vultures. It is called hog civilization. The hog, they eat anything and they have sex with anyone.

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. These animals they don't distinguish between their own bodily relatives.

Prabhupāda: Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This is instruction. Where is culture? Culture is lost. So therefore there is no value of education. And besides that, education means spiritual education. Brahma-vidyā. This education how to make aeroplane or a nice bridge or a machine, this is called kalā-vidyā. This is not vidyā.

Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.

Prabhupāda: No, kalā.... Kalā means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on that if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: Well, it's the present culmination of synthesis and antithesis.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is their imperfect knowledge. They do not know. What is thesis, what is antithesis, and the synthesis, they do not know. As philosophers, they have found out the three things. But so far the solution of the problem of human society.... You cannot solve the problems of animals' society. That is not possible. So this thesis can be understood by human beings. The animals cannot understand it, that within this body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul, everything is going on, bodily affair. This thesis cannot be understood by the animals. So if you cannot understand, then you are also animal, although you are two-legged. So what is the value of your thesis, antithesis? You are animal.

Harikeśa: I think a thesis, it would be described in the dictionary as a proposition.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Who can give proposition unless one is human being? The dog cannot give proposition. The animal cannot give proposition. So who is giving this proposition throughout the Western world, that within this body there is the real person? Who understands this? Therefore they're all animals. What is the value of their so-called philosophy? What do you think? Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kunāpe tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If he's in the bodily concept of life, then he remains animal. What is the value of his thesis? Now here is the thesis. Now antithesis is also there. Actually we are trying to adjust. Only society. The thesis is the soul. The antithesis is the body. And synthesis is how to adjust the body and soul so that the soul be benefited from this entanglement.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All over the world. They say that what will happen... One thing that will happen is that if there's any... Of course, this is scientists' explanation. If there is any weakness within the family line—that means bodily weakness, mental weakness, or anything...

Prabhupāda: No, even it is not weakness, it will create weakness, same blood. The different blood will create some incentive, different flow of blood. That is scientific. But who cares for that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays...

Prabhupāda: The Mohammedans, they accept the same blood. Therefore they are not very intelligent. Throughout the whole world the Mohammedans are not very intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They marry within their family.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And uncle's daughter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Uncle's daughter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The father and his brother, so his daughter, his son can marry.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death? (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: When somebody is dying and his external consciousness is completely absorbed in all kinds of terrible bodily symptoms, how is it that a devotee remembers Kṛṣṇa? What is actually happening that he's able to remember Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Devotee generally remembers Kṛṣṇa. But even if he cannot, Kṛṣṇa will help him.

Devotees: Oh.

Prabhupāda: That is guarantee. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Because he is devotee, for material condition he could not remember, but Kṛṣṇa remembers, "Yes," that "he has done so much for Me."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, otherwise...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise, it's just mechanical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mechanical

Prabhupāda: No. That is.... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that.... He was giving the condition. Then, when Arjuna was little disturbed, so He said immediately, "Arjuna, you have no fear." Did you not read this portion?

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Even Mahesh Yogi says. Yes.

Reporter (4): And if you want to attain your bodily strength...

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. One of his secretaries came to us. One of his secretaries, he asked that "I want real knowledge of God." He said, "Then you go to ISKCON."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's true.

Reporter (4): And if you want blissful, pleasureful things, go to other, either Mahesh or to Bala Hathayogi. This is what has been.... This is what has been impressed upon by knowledgeable people in America. And at least I can say with authority that I have talked with lot of people in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that you can chant some mantra and go on with your sinful life. But the practical result is that people's lives remain the same. They may simply divert themselves from their suffering temporarily. But in reality their condition of life is the same. They're still in a miserable condition of life, whereas Prabhupāda is actually lifting us out of the well of misery to the atmosphere of blissfulness.

Prabhupāda: That Mahesh Yogi advertises in the paper, "TM: You don't require any religion, don't require to follow any principles," and so on, so on. But I have got so many strictures; still, they do not go to him. They come to me. He has no stricture, but I have got so many stricture. And it is the report of the draft department that "Why the young men come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? What is the facility?" So they studied. So they reported, "There is no facility, simply rigidity. Still they go there."

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Guru dāsa: Prabhupāda pointed out the other day that when someone dies, we have all the bodily fluids there, all the organs. Why can't we put it together and make life again?

Dr. Patel: That's right. So now they have started reading all these, our books. They will now make amendment on it. As you said, they will thesis, synthesis. The present practice of communism in Russia is much more diluted than what it was twenty, thirty years back.

Prabhupāda: It should be.

Dr. Patel: And it will be like India after twenty years.

Guru dāsa: The result is that the biggest problem in Russia is that no one comes to work-absenteeism.

Dr. Patel: That will be here also. I have been to Ceylon, sir. And in Colombo they are giving free ration to the people. I mean, the rice.

Prabhupāda: There is a story in Bengal. (Bengali) The woman had seven sons. The mother requested first son, "My dear boy, now I am going to die. Take me to the Ganges side." He said, "Why? You have got so many other sons, why you are requesting me?"

Dr. Patel: She was calling every one, and nobody took her.

Prabhupāda: And then second son, third.... Everyone said like that, and she died without Gaṅgā. Agar mā gaṅgā.(?) So this.... And everyone has to work. And he thinks that "Why I shall work? Let him work. No work today."

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is.... That you have to consider, that it is a fact. And the yoga system is meant.... This is the real yoga system, that because we are on the false understanding, identifying with the body, so the bodily function should be controlled, and concentration or focus should be placed: "What is that living condition?" That is yoga or meditation, to find out what is the real.... Analyze this body and find out where is the living pulse. And that is real yoga system, to control the senses. The senses are working. Now we are getting knowledge through the senses. How to get this knowledge of the living force? That, a mechanical arrangement, that is called yoga system.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: Arjuna asks also many questions.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata. Kārpaṇya-doṣa (BG 2.7). "It was my duty to understand myself, and I am thinking of my these nonsense relatives—my grandfather, my son. What is this? I know that. What I can do by thinking about them? It may be they have come to war. But suppose they would have died naturally—what could I do? So why I am perplexed with these things? I know the defect. I cannot cause their death or birth or existence. It is beyond my jurisdiction. And still, I am anxious: If I kill them, then what would happen? What would happen?" You kill or not kill, they'll be killed, today or tomorrow. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). A learned man knows that the body will be finished, the bodily action, today or tomorrow. So what is to lament after this body? Lamentation is that the person within the body, whether he's going to hell or heaven. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti or tamo gacchanti. That is real concern. Body will be finished, today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. Who can protect it? But one should be interested with the owner of the body, where he is going, what is his next position. And that is clearly stated: adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). So you are interested to go up or down or remain in the same status. There are three status: up, down, and the same.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: You go at four o'clock to your working place and come at night, ten. Is that enjoyment?

Rādhāvallabha: But on the weekend we can go to the beach. And we can eat whatever we want.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you can go to hell also. Different thing.... (break) ...jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu. That is there. If you are suffering from disease, where is enjoyment? Mental discomfort, bodily discomfort. You are taking thrice pills for tranquillity. Is that enjoyment?

Rādhāvallabha: They say you have to take the good with the bad.

Prabhupāda: This nonsense enjoyment. Fool's paradise. For keeping the mind in tranquillity he is taking four times pills. For sleeping, he is taking pill. Does he enjoy that?

Rādhāvallabha: By suffering you can get a deeper appreciation...

Prabhupāda: Then what is enjoyment? Suffer. Then why is called enjoyment? By suffering you can.... (too much static-end)

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: (reading:) "This material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the Mādhyandināyana-śruti: sa vā eṣa brahma-niṣṭhā idaṁ śarīraṁ martyam atisṛjya brahmābhisampadya brahmaṇā paśyati brahmaṇā śṛṇoti brahmaṇaivedaṁ sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He is. In smṛti also it is understood that in the spiritual planets everyone lives in bodies featured like the Supreme Personality of Godhead's body. As far as bodily construction is concerned, there is no difference between the part-and-parcel living entities and the expansions of Viṣṇumūrti. In other words, at liberation the living entity gets a spiritual body by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The word mamaivāṁśaḥ, 'fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord,' is also very significant. The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part. We have already understood in the Second Chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces. This fragment is not materially conceived. It is not like matter which can be cut into pieces and joined together again. That conception is not applicable here because the Sanskrit word sanātana, 'eternal,' is used. The fragmental portion is eternal. It is also stated in the beginning of the Second Chapter that dehino 'smin yathā—in each and every individual body, the fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is present. That fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original spiritual body in the spiritual sky in a spiritual planet and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord. It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold."

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the atheists, they say there is no soul-intuition. So we do not accept this proposal. The soul, when he is in particular situation, he remembers immediately what he has to do. Just like the small puppies, they have not even opened the eyes, but still, immediately after birth they're searching after food and goes immediately to the nipples of the mother. So how he goes there? They say it is intuition, but it is not intuition. The soul, being put into that body, immediately remembers all the activities of the body. Just like in Los Angeles. When I am in tour in other places I forget about Los Angeles, but as soon as I come here, I know where is my bedroom, where is my sitting room, where is my garden, immediately. I haven't got to be taught that "Here is your sitting room, here is your sleeping room." Immediately, I remember. Similarly, this living entity is transmigrating from time immemorial in different types of body. So as soon as he comes to a particular type of body he remembers the activities immediately. They are interpreting as intuition—that is not intuition. It is old remembrance. This is the explanation.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Interested or not interested. Child is not interested for education. But it is the duty of the father to make him educated, sometimes punish him. So a child may be foolish, but how the parents can be foolish? It is not that because the human society is not interested, this should be stopped. No.

Interviewer: How can you make them interested if they're not?

Prabhupāda: Well, how these boys are becoming interested? They are young men, they have got so many ideas of bodily enjoyment, but how they have become interested? Thousands. They are all young men. How they have become interested? And you cannot withdraw them from this interest.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda has taught us how to experience spiritual pleasure or spiritual happiness by chanting, taking the food that we, that you and I just took, and through this philosophy. There is genuine transcendental bliss. So when one experiences that pleasure, then other pleasures appear to be insignificant in comparison. So even though someone may not be interested now, if we can give him a chance to experience this higher pleasure, then it's natural he'll become interested. That's the idea.

Interviewer: Sure.

Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is the symptom?

Rādhāvallabha: Generally, with women, they get some lump...

Rāmeśvara: Pain, the symptom is lump and great pain. Cancer is said to be some bacteria or virus cells that are inside the body, eating the body organs.

Rādhāvallabha: The cells increase, the cancer cells increase, and they take the place of the regular bodily cells, but they themselves are worthless.

Rāmeśvara: And the only idea they have for curing cancer is to cut out the diseased area from the body, remove that part of the body.

Devotee: Kill it with X-ray.

Rādhāvallabha: Yeah. They also try to bombard it with radiation, and that has its very bad effects. Their hair falls out. They get burns, sick.

Hṛdayānanda: Miserable condition.

Rādhāvallabha: Yes.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: It is knowledge. Just like we are moving with this body, but still we know perfectly well that we are not this body. Just like you may move in your car, but you are perfectly aware that you are not the car. When you drive on your car, do you not know that you are not the car, car is different from you? Huh? Don't you know that? Similarly, by cultivation of knowledge one can remain in the car and still he can know that he is not the car. The example is given, just like coconut. Coconut, within the shell, green shell, there is coconut. And when it is dry, if you move you'll understand that the coconut is now separate-(makes sound:) cut-cut-cut-cut—at that time it is taken away for extracting oil. So this is practical. In the beginning, green coconut. And when you can perceive that there is coconut within the shell and it can be separated, but at a time it can be known that the coconut is separated from the shell. And if you move it, it will make-cut-cut-cut. That is the process. It is by action. When after hearing theoretical, that you are separate from this body, if you cultivate that knowledge, then time will come when you'll perceive practically that we are not this body. That means in higher stage of spiritual consciousness the bodily activities, material bodily activities will stop. Only Kṛṣṇa activities will go on. So that, just like the coconut fruit is separate from the shell, similarly, even living within this body, he will be separated from the body. Jīvan mukta sa ucyate. The Sanskrit word is he's liberated even in this life while living in this body. That requires cultivation of the knowledge and practical activities. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not all of a sudden, but there is stage when it will be experienced that he is not this body, he is separate from the body.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: What is their argument?

Jayādvaita: Hardly.... Well, they have some idea, they argue that there's no social mobility, because they all have some bodily idea that caste by birth.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact.

Jayādvaita: No.

Prabhupāda: The qualification.

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: And fell and flew away. How quickly they can take. Everyone knows his business. That intelligence there everywhere. Āhāra nidrā bhayam maithunī, for these things, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex and how to defend, everyone knows. You do not require to educate them. Only they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is only possible by the human beings. Otherwise, other necessities of bodily, everyone knows. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Every morning, this place should be washed with water. Then it will be very nice. Then we can sit down and chant all day and night, Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Haridāsa Ṭhākura was doing that. But don't imitate. But I mean to say, if you do that, where is the problem? (break) ...I think you can acquire some land through the government for agriculture and cow protection. There are so many, so much vacant land. I think they will accept community proposal. Sometimes invite some important government officials; let them see what you are doing.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense books. That is our mission." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ (SB 1.5.10). That verse, that however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not contain any glorification of Kṛṣṇa, it is just like the spot where the crows take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures, they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan, paramahaṁsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage. Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the crow's society and swan's society. (police car sounds) What is this?

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Just like pains and pleasure. You know your bodily pains and pleasure, I know my body. But I do not know your bodily pains, neither you know mine. But God knows everyone's pains and pleasures. That is the difference between God and individual soul.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There are so many Western woman, girls, in our society. They are chanting, dancing, taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, because superficially, bodily, there is some distinction, so we keep women separately from men, that's all. Otherwise, the rights are the same.

Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jāhnavā devī was-Nityānanda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection.... Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he or she can become guru. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. (break) In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. (Bengali) Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. (laughs) (Bengali) (japa) Let Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There's no conception of nation. There is conception of varṇāśrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality-first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that's all. And then fifth class. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now you try to implement. Perfect human life. Let any sociologist, politician come forward. We shall convince them that this is only way. Why you are wasting time and barking dog in the United Nations for the last forty years and doing nothing? What I said, barking dogs? You have read it? I accused them as barking dogs, Melbourne, and they published in the paper. Actually, this is the fact.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Seventy, then sixty then fifty. In this way, if a man lives from twenty to thirty years he will be considered grand old man. These are the symptoms, āyur. Then?

Pradyumna: Balam.

Prabhupāda: And bodily strength. Bodily strength... In India we, in our childhood, I have seen when British rule was there, all the Europeans were coming, very tall and stout and strong. Now such Europeans are not coming. Even bodily strength reduced. Then?

Pradyumna: Smṛtiḥ.

Prabhupāda: And memory. It will reduce. Just see, compare everything, religiosity and the power of mercifulness, pardoning, truthfulness, cleanliness, bodily strength, duration of life—they're all reduced. Now who can say it is not reduced? Can you say? This is called tri-kala-jñā. Tatas, what is that? Cānu-dinaṁ rājan?

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Marriage will go on simply by agreement, not by qualification. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Snānam eva prasādhanam. And if you take bath, then all bodily cleanliness is finished, that's all. Then?

Pradyumna: Dūre vāry-ay...

Prabhupāda: Vāry-ayanam.

Pradyumna: Oh. Dūre...

Prabhupāda: Dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrtham. Tīrtham. If you go... Just like there is Vṛndāvana and here is New Vrindaban. But if you spend ten thousand dollars and go to Vṛndāvana, then it is pilgrimage. And here is Vṛndāvana-candra. So that is not very important. Dūre vāry-ayanam. You have to go far, far away, (laughter) then it will be pilgrimage. In India, there is Ganges in Calcutta. But they go to Hardwar. Then it is pilgrimage. (laughter) The same Ganges, coming from Hardwar.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tataḥ anudinam. Bring that black book, Bhāgavata. Tatas cānudinaṁ dharmaḥ satyam. This is Kali-Yuga, the age of waning of these things. Religiosity, truthfulness, memory, bodily strength, duration of life, mercifulness.

Hari-śauri: Pradyumna's just going to come with it.

Prabhupāda: These are, will be declining. These are the, I mean to say, human assets which makes a human being distinct from the animals. But these things will decline. There will be no mercifulness, there will be no truthfulness, the memory will be shortened, duration life shortened. Similarly religion will vanish. So that means gradually they will come to the platform of animals. And especially when there is no religion, it is simply animals. That any common man can distinguish, that... a dog does not understand what is religion. He's also a living being. He's not interested what is going on here about Bhagavad-Gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is not interested. That is the distinction between dog and man. The animal is not interested. So if the human being becoming disinterested in religious things, then they are animals. And how there can be happiness, peace, in the animal society? They want to keep people as animal, and they are making United Nations. How it is possible? "United Animals?" Is it possible? "Society for United Animals." (laughter) So these things are going on. So they have detected it is declining, that is good. Declining means they are going to be animals. In the logic it is said, "Man is rational animal." So rationality minus..., animal. Where is human being? (aside:) you stand be... No. there is no place. That's all right.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is also tapasya. That is also tapasya. Just like we are prohibiting meat-eating. So in your country this is little troublesome. From the very beginning of his life he is, I mean to say, habituated to eat meat. The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order. That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing, and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental tapasya, bodily tapasya, and what is called? Word? Just like vāco-vegam, this is tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvar... If you talk, you must talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is tapasya. "Śāstra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of Kṛṣṇa." So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words. Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him. "No, don't do it." "I want to kill you." Tapasya will restrict. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam. "I am sexually inclined, but I cannot do it. This is not the time." That is tapasya. I am restricted. In this way, tapasya in every way, bodily, mental, words, practice, dealing. So these have to be learned. That is called tapasya. And that is human life. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). If you want to make progress in spiritual life and you are human life, human being, you must act according to the sastric injunctions. That is called tapasya. Brahma, before creation he had to undergo tapasya. Is it not stated? Yes. So tapasya is essential. You cannot avoid. Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Duration of life is decreased. If one is twenty years old, he will be a grand old man.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is coming.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bodily strength decreases. Then smṛti, intelligence...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Memory is decreasing.

Prabhupāda: Dayā, dharma, religious principles—everything will be reduced. And the government men, instead of giving you protection, they will act like thieves and rogues. You cannot say anything. Very, very precarious condition, all freedom lost. In Russia, all freedom lost. They have no freedom. The professor giving that testimonial, and "Don't publish it." They are appreciating this book, but they cannot say "That is good book." Just see what kind of freedom is there. A nice book, I appreciate; I cannot give in writing.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just explain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Too fallen to follow the regulative principles is like saying a diseased man is too diseased to take medicine. So it's actually in our own self interest. We have to become enlightened, to understand what our real interest is. Yajña vai viṣṇu. Now we are thinking that our real interest is to gratify the senses. This is perishable. When we come to the understanding of ātmā, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then we understand that our real self interest is to follow these regulative principles. As Prabhupāda said, in the beginning it may be painful, undoubtedly, because we are, for so many lifetimes addicted to sense gratification, but gradually more and more ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), when the heart becomes cleansed from the dirty misidentification with this gross and subtle material body, gradually more and more it becomes favorable (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa says, "Be happy by this sacrifice." Therefore the sacrifice must be joy-producing, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Simply that because we're presently in diseased condition, it may appear to be displeasing. Prabhupāda gives the example of someone who has jaundice. In the jaundice state, when you take sugar it appears very bitter. The perception is very bitter. But everyone knows that sugar is sweet. So in the same way, the regulative principles are naturally painful for someone who is irregular. For.... Engaged in bodily identification of life. But gradually it becomes more and more pleasing.

Prabhupāda: Practical.

Devotee: When we have Kṛṣṇa conscious (indistinct) struggling for(indistinct). It has to be a struggle.

Prabhupāda: What is struggle? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance and take prasādam. (devotee cheers)

Prabhupāda: Is that struggle? You don't want to take it. Say that. Where is struggle? To take prasādam, nice prasādam, is struggle? (laughs)

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (1): Yes, but my plain feeling came, sir...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, the Brahman, there are... We are all Brahman, living entities. We are simply thinking "I am this body." So when we are... That I was speaking, liberation. When we come to the conclusion that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahmāsmi... So you are already Brahman, but you are, forgetfully, you are thinking that you are Indian. That is māyā. We are all Brahman, but due to our ignorance, lack of knowledge, we are thinking "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that." That is māyā. So when you actually understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is the fact. Then that condition is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Now we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are thinking "I am individual person of this country, of this religion." That is jīva-bhūtaḥ. But when we understand that we are not jīva-bhūtaḥ, we are brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is our liberated position. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When one becomes actually in understanding that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then my all responsibility of this bodily condition immediately ceases. I am not this body. And why I am working for this body? Why I am in ignorance? That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is liberated stage. So we are already Brahman, there is no question of becoming Brahman. We are mistaking something else, that "I am not Brahman." So when we come to the actual understanding, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu... (BG 18.54). Then he see everyone on equal level, that every soul is Brahman.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All mistaken. Where is the difference, then how do you experiment in the biological class by dissecting animal body? What is the difference in the composition of social construction, I er, bodily construction. You have to suffer. That's why I have said, there must be (indistinct). The same principle is there. Otherwise how the mosquito fly like this and...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a mosquito but they...

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot make mosquito. They can make 747.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a sample like mosquito.

Prabhupāda: No... They cannot, they cannot. That is my challenge. That first of all you bring life from the egg. You prepare a egg composition, and put it in the incubator and let some living entity come out. So can they do it? So why they will speak all nonsense?

Yadubara: They admit they can't do it.

Prabhupāda: Then they are rascal. What they cannot do, they're speaking lots of and getting Nobel prize.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That verse, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya (BG 9.32).

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa says that even women, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. There is no such thing. Anyone who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he or she will go back to home, back to Godhead. There is no such discrimination. Ordinarily it is supposed that woman is less intelligent than the man. That's a fact. But that is in bodily understanding. But in the spiritual platform, either woman or man or cat or dog or brāhmaṇa or... Everyone is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he sees everyone on the same level of spiritual platform.

Guest (2): Your Grace? How can a person tell what his or her occupation or duty is supposed to be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, duty is already prescribed, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So this is the duty. "You give up all other duties, you simply take to Me, surrender unto Me." This is duty. All other duties, they are temporary, and this is real duty, to surrender to God. If you think that "I am giving up all other duties, my family duties, my community duty, my national duty and so many..." Because you may think like that, that "Giving up all duties, I simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious...," as Arjuna was thinking. But Kṛṣṇa gives you assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry, I shall give protection. If you think that by giving up all other duties you'll be sinful, so I give you assurance that I shall give you all protection." It is clearly stated. So this is the only duty, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and become His perfect devotee. This is the only duty.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The doctors have been accused of taking out the hearts of living persons.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So how to use it? What they'll use?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes if a man is in critical condition he will donate his bodily organs, so they will kill him just to take out his heart so that they can use it for transplanting.

Bali-mardana: When his brain stops, even though the heart is beating, they take it out.

Prabhupāda: So? (pause) That is the question put by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. "I want to live, but what is that force that does not allow me to live?" This is the question, this is the question. They are trying to find out so many laws, so many, what is the purpose? They want to live, but there is a force that will not allow you to live. That is the human question. When this question arises, then he is human being; otherwise he's a dog. Dog never inquires.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like you or me or anyone, this living condition is one platform and when I or you, we are dead, that is another platform. So generally people are working on the bodily concept of platform.

Interviewer: What kind of?

Prabhupāda: Bodily.

Interviewer: Oh, bodily, walking on the, yes yes.

Prabhupāda: And we are working on the spiritual platform. Just like what is the distinction between a dead man and a living man? There is some distinction.

Interviewer: Right.

Prabhupāda: So those who are working on the bodily platform, they are working on the dead platform.

Interviewer: Does that involve a majority of the people, or...?

Prabhupāda: Anyone. It is a little difficult. Try to understand, that this body, so long the living force is there, the body is important. Do you follow it or not? This body is important how long? So long the life is there.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Devotee: Actually we are giving all those things as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are supplying everything, driver's food and the car's power. But they see that, "Why they are wasting time giving food to the driver?" They think that petrol is the food of the driver as well as the car. They do not know that the food of the driver is different from the petrol for the car. Try to understand this analogy. (indistinct)

Interviewer: I gather what you are driving at is that bodily food is different than, mental, reading, intellectual food, spiritual food, it all comes into the body and we take it all information, ideas, this is the kind...

Prabhupāda: Not ideas, that is a fact. Fact that you driver, you must have your food. Otherwise you will die.

Interviewer: I'm looking at you, that's taking in a certain kind of information.

Prabhupāda: You cannot drive the car without food.

Interviewer: You have all kinds of information that you have to have to survive. To get down the sidewalk without running into the building you've got to see the wall.

Prabhupāda: The sum and substance is that if a person thinks that he is the car, the driver, if he thinks wrongly that he is the car, then his life is spoiled.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is useful for every human being. If the Western society thinks that they are not human being, that is another thing. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: In other words, this is the business of human life.

Interviewer: What's your view of Judaism and Christianity?

Prabhupāda: I have not studied, but any "ism," if it is meant for making the soul free from this bodily condition, that is first class "ism." Otherwise, it is simply waste of time.

Interviewer: Any religion that...

Prabhupāda: That gives facility.

Interviewer: Emphasizes making us free from the bodily condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: That's a first class religion.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That's it. This is the... We are all recklessly wasteful sons of God. We are sons of God, there is no doubt, but at the present moment, recklessly wasteful. We are wasting our valuable life even, we are so reckless. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to check their recklessness and bring them into senses of responsibility, going back home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But people are so reckless, as soon as you say something of God, immediately they laugh, "Oh, what is nonsense, God." This is the supreme recklessness. India was very serious about God. Still, India is serious. Now, the present leaders, they are thinking that Indians are spoiled, simply thinking of God—they're not thinking like the Americans and Europeans for economic development. So this is the position, and it is very difficult, but still we can do something this to the humanity, by preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And those who are fortunate, they'll come, take up seriously. These reckless prodigal sons, we have got so many examples. For example, just like there is some stock of petroleum and they got information that from petroleum they can run on cars without horse. So, manufacture millions of cars and spoil the whole oil. This is recklessness. And when it is finished, then they'll cry. And it will be finished. This is going on. Recklessness. Just as reckless boy, father has left some property, use it, use it. As soon as you get. The sooner it is finished, that's all. That is recklessness. There is some strength in the body, and as soon as he gets a little taste of sex life, "Oh, spend it, spend it," whole energy spent. The brain becomes vacant. This is recklessness. Beginning from twelfth year, by the thirty year, everything finished. Then he's impotent. In our childhood—in our childhood means, say, eighty years ago, or say, a hundred years ago—there was no motorcar. And now, wherever you go, in any country, you see thousands and millions of car. This is recklessness. Hundreds years ago they could do without motorcar, and now they cannot live without a car. In this way, unnecessarily, they're increasing bodily or material necessities of life. This is recklessness.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So long we have got these eyes, these ears, this nose, utilize it properly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja...(?) Every birth you'll get a father, mother. Because without father, mother, there is no question of birth. But not in every birth you'll get Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is in this birth. Birth you can have. But to have Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is this birth. So utilize it properly. Janame janame saba pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja... Very nice. That chance you'll not get. You'll get body, you'll get eyes, you'll get ear, you'll get father, you'll get mother, you'll get food, you'll get sex, you'll get defense, everything you'll get. Tathā dehāntara. But not this chance, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja. You'll not get Kṛṣṇa and guru. This is the difference. How nice verse it is. Everything you'll get, but you'll not get this. How nice it is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), another body you'll get. Another body you'll get means you will get all bodily facilities. There is no scarcity between this body and that body. But only scarcity is that in other body you'll not get Kṛṣṇa and guru. We have to remember this.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For feeding. Feeding. Give them sumptuous food so that they may become healthy, nice food. (laughter) Yes. That is also wanted. Children, they must eat sufficiently. Not overeat. Even overeat, that is not wrong for children. And that will be exercise, by going to Yamunā and coming? That will be bodily exercise. This is nice. Do that. Strictly follow. There is no scarcity of space there, yes. Vṛndāvana is holy place. And there is no government interference, so increase it. Bring more student from all over the world. Then it will be unique. And you also make scheme to get Indian children from aristocratic family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). Those who are born in high-class, rich family or brāhmaṇa family, they are not ordinary. But there is no brāhmaṇa family now. So at least the richer section, they can be induced to send their boys to learn Sanskrit and English and Bhagavad-bhakti. They can do business, and whatever they like, they can do later on. But these things, they should be... Father-mother should be careful. (Hindi conversation) ...just attract all good family children. (Hindi) ...working, they will have to live. They cannot. They cannot become paṇḍita or spiritually advanced men. They have to work. But if the richer section, they get their sons, good character, good devotee.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (4): It is not contradictory.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is contradictory. Unless you have got a personality, you cannot speak, you cannot think. So how it is nirākāra? That is my first point. Kṛṣṇa says, "aham." He is person. We worship Kṛṣṇa as person. He says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). That "aham," He's person. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa as person because he says aham ādir hi devānām.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

He's person. Kṛṣṇa never said that "I am nirākāra." Where He has said? Can you quote any verse? When He says nirākāra, He says like this, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). Mayā, by Me. Tatam idaṁ sarvam, everywhere, by My energy. Just like the sun-god. The sun-god is within the sun globe. His bodily luster is coming. The sun-god can say, "The sunshine is my bodily exposition." That is reasonable. Just like a big light, it has got exposition. Similarly... And that is confirmed in the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). Yasya, the person.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dullheaded rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dullheaded. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7). This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. (Hindi) That is especially mentioned. That ayaṁ deha. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. (Hindi) Sex. No discrimination. (Hindi) Sex is a bodily, what is the...

Guest (1): Necessity of life.

Dr. Patel: Biological necessity.

Prabhupāda: Necessity. What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there? They say like that?

Dr. Patel: They consider themselves to be animals.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So give prasāda. Bring prasāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prasāda also.

Prabhupāda: No, bring here. Jaya.

CID Chief: Just touch my hand, that's all, and make me cure bodily...

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Thank you. You come whenever you find time.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He comes regularly.

CID Chief: I was longing to come, so today I came. It's my great fortune that...

Prabhupāda: No... That. Even as CID officer, you can note. This is my business. I am working hard, producing these books, selling, and the telegram you see, and bringing that money here. So if you thing that I am still faulty, then what can I do?

CID Chief: From the beginning I have made it clear that I come here to get some mental peace.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Chinese Bhagavad-gītā. Actually Trivikrama Swami has just come. He's been preaching in Taiwan. (breaks) (end)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand. Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is important or the sun is important?

Guest (2): The original sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, this impersonal Brahman illumination or effulgence, that is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). So ultimately Kṛṣṇa is important, not this impersonal Brahman illumination. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti sabdyate (SB 1.2.11). You see practical example and learn here in the śāstra. You'll understand Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8), personally says. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So Brahman also pravartate. But if you don't believe Kṛṣṇa and śāstra, that is different thing. Then you cannot be convinced. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Your eyes should be through the śāstra, not by manufacturing ideas. So śāstras says this.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): The original sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, this impersonal Brahman illumination or effulgence, that is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). So ultimately Kṛṣṇa is important, not this impersonal Brahman illumination. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti sabdyate (SB 1.2.11). You see practical example and learn here in the śāstra. You'll understand Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8), personally says. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So Brahman also pravartate. But if you don't believe Kṛṣṇa and śāstra, that is different thing. Then you cannot be convinced. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Your eyes should be through the śāstra, not by manufacturing ideas. So śāstras says this.

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

This is śāstra, Brahma-saṁhitā, that "This brahma-jyotir is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Govinda." So the rays of Govinda is not so important as Govinda is important. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. And Govinda personally says, ahaṁ sarvasya... Sarvasya means everything, including Brahman.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Hari-śauri: Show the nine devotional processes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the nine devotional process and how, by each process, one becomes perfect, just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, simply hearing, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī, simply chanting, reciting Bhāgavatam. So both of them got salvation. Lakṣmī, she is simply pāda-sevanam, giving massage to the lotus feet of the Lord. Arjuna simply made friendship with Kṛṣṇa. Hanuman simply worked as a hard servant. He doesn't know what He is... "Lord Rāmacandra wants it." Then it is done. Jump over. He does not know any philosophy. He has got bodily strength, so whatever Rāmacandra says, he'll do. He was asked to bring that medicine for Lakṣmaṇa. He did not know where to find it. "Take this whole mountain." (laughter) He was not intelligent. "Fight! We have to fight with Rāvaṇa. Then block his whole city by throwing stones and trees and dirt." Everything became blocked. They could not move. So in one side he is born of animal life, he had no higher intelligence, but his staunch desire, that "I shall serve Lord Rāmacandra..." By that... Only this desire made him perfect. Dāsyam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23), so smaraṇam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, five years old boy, how he could protest against such a powerful demon father? He was simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "All right, my father is punishing me. What can I do?" Simply absorbed, smaraṇam.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Many houses. I was not sleeping at night, and there was some sound, "gongongongon," in my ear. So long the body will be there, there will be so many troubles. And Kṛṣṇa has advised that "They will come and go. Don't care for them. That's all." Āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata.

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya

śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino 'nityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

(BG 2.14)

So bodily, mental, by enemies, so many impediments will come. What can be done? We have to tolerate. That is material world. We cannot expect smooth, very happy. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa advising Arjuna, what to speak of us. What we are in comparison to Arjuna. He's His personal friend, talking with Him. He said, tāṁs titikṣasva. Kṛṣṇa never said, "I have made some magic. You'll have no failure," like that. Tāṁs titikṣasva. "You just try to tolerate." That's all. He never gave him any tablet. (chuckling) He taught that... So we have to do that. As the modern gurus says that "I'll give you some ash. There will be no trouble," Kṛṣṇa did He so? He said, "No, tolerate." That's all. He could have said, "I'll give you some ash." "You are ass; I'll give you some ash." (laughter) Neither Arjuna asked also, that "Why You are asking me to fight? Give me some ash. I'll throw." He was not such a fool that he asked some magic from Kṛṣṇa and kill his enemies. Actually he fought. This is Bhagavad-gītā. So face things as they are and depend on Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. We must go on with our duty. Don't expect any ash, miracle, magic. So what is...? You have got sleeping place?

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Well, it will be overgrown, but they also want it to be effulgent.

Prabhupāda: Not overgrown. This is all right.

Rāmeśvara: Oh. Then there are many descriptions of Lord Kṛṣṇa in this volume, so they have painted this painting of Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is especially a description describing the beauty of His face and His lotus feet and His whole bodily beauty, carrying the flute.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. It is all right. Now you have become expert, painting Kṛṣṇa so many years.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause we feel that there's never a limit how beautiful Kṛṣṇa can be painted.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes, unlimited.

Rāmeśvara: Now, also there are many descriptions, or there are several descriptions in this verse, of the Lord's expansion as Paramātmā within the heart of every living entity and also within each atom. Now, a few years ago Bharadvāja drew this picture for Back to Godhead. We were thinking to make a painting similar to this showing that Viṣṇu is within the atom. And this will be used not only in this book, but also we were thinking to use this on the cover of Life Comes From Life.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Subdued. So then there is no chance. Kancai no wale basa mas korbe tas tas:(?) "If you want to bend this bamboo, when it is green, you can do it. And if it is yellow, can't. It will break." Tas, tas. This is Bengali. If you take one yellow bamboo, to bend it, it will crack and make sound, "Tas, tas." But when it is green, you can bend it. Kancai no wale paca means green. (Bengali) Kancai no wale basa mas korbe tas tas.(?) First human civilization begins when you restrain the children not to become restless. This is the training. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. This training is lacking. Therefore even in old age, the washerman business. I am bodily conscious, and I am training others also to become bodily conscious: "You feel like Indian," "You feel like American," "You feel like Englishman." This is education, the same dehātma-buddhi, that "I am this body," extended. The extended feeling of bodily consciousness, is that advancement? Is that advancement? The bodily consciousness is animalism. (aside:) Why you are taking? Huh? No, no. You keep it.

Conversation with Italian Woman with Translator -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with spiritual advancement. It is body. So that is animal conception. Tell her.

Translator: She's still insisting, should she stay with her husband, should she stay alone so she can...?

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Because it is body, bodily connection, either you live alone or with somebody, it has nothing to do with spiritual life.

Translator: She lives in Milano and she would like, somehow or other, to help people through yoga. So she wants to know if she is able to do it or not?

Prabhupāda: What help she can do?

Translator: She says she would like to help spiritually other people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So first of all you realize yourself.

Translator: She says sometimes she calls you, and she can feel your presence, and she wants to know if you can feel her presence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'm ready to help, but spiritually.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you understand what is the importance of this movement. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. First of all, you have to know what is the important things are there. One thing is this bodily machine and the other thing is the power within the machine.

Mr. Koshi: The driving force.

Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is the power. You are simply embarrassed with the machine. So just try to understand your position in ignorance. As soon as the power within machine is gone, it is useless. Everything is thrown away, a lump of matter. So who is culturing higher...

Mr. Koshi: (Hindi) Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhaktivedanta Prabhupāda. (introduces Indian to Śrīla Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: Betiye, sit down.

Indian (1): No, he has come to pay respect to you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But wait. Let him come in. The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance, then what is the use of advancing further? If your basic principle is calculated wrong, then whatever you construct on that wrong background, everything is wrong. One mistake done in the beginning, then plus minus, plus minus, ultimately it is wrong. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that unless you take seriously what Kṛṣṇa says, you are simply jumping like animals. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, you understand your position, what Kṛṣṇa says. Then go ahead. You do not understand the basic principle what Kṛṣṇa says and you are declaring yourself, "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavad-gītā is my life," and so on.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why one? Let him come. (Hindi) I think I speak in English. Otherwise they will not understand. The first thing is that "I am not this body." This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you do not understand the first instruction, then where is the use of going ahead? This is the defect. Bhagavān said,

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

(BG 2.11)

"My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't talk. Why you are talking? So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination. So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: At the last stage one must take sannyāsa. After fiftieth year one must take to vānaprastha, vanaṁ vrajet. This is system. So... System of purification, how to become designationless. And if we keep the designation, then, śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) "One who keeps the bodily designation, he's no better than the cows and the asses, animal." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that... Caitanya Mahā... This is the shastric, Vedic culture, that we have to purify ourselves from the bodily designation. That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the dirty things within the core of the heart, that "I am this"—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," "I am gṛhastha," "I am white," "I am black." These are the dirty things. So these dirty things can be cleansed by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). This chanting and hearing is puṇya-śravaṇa. If you do not know anything about, if you simply chant and hear, you become purified, puṇya, because on account of dirty things, impious life, you have become covered by different bodies. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Different bodies means the way of birth and death. That you have to stop. And that is stopped when you get Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, I think, in the Ninth Chapter... Find out this verse, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa, mām aprāpya (BG 9.3). You cannot get Kṛṣṇa. If you have no faith in Bhagavad-gītā, then you cannot get Kṛṣṇa. If you don't care for Kṛṣṇa, that is another thing, but if you want to get Kṛṣṇa, then what Kṛṣṇa says, you follow.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So life is divided into two, that body and the soul. Actually the soul requires satisfaction. So unless the soul approaches Adhokṣaja-adhokṣaja means beyond the sense perception of bodily understanding—there is no possibility. So we can start later this chapter. Next verse?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next verse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Next verse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

Prabhupāda: So this perfection can be achieved by direct devotional service to Vāsudeva.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He knows what is your need. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, but don't sit down like lazy. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). This is instruction. We are trying to teach the whole world that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and keep your status quo very nicely without any being poverty-stricken, and that is happiness." That is happiness. And so far the bodily disadvantages, so as soon as you get this material body, you'll have to... You have to die. You have to suffer from disease. You have to take birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā. So therefore śāstra says, that verse, that "Don't be attached to karma-kāṇḍa, fruitive activities." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. "By karma-kāṇḍa you can get better body, but that will not solve your problem." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary, but so long you have got this body, you have to suffer, this way or that way. So this is your real unhappiness, to get this material. Kleśada. Kleśada means always giving trouble. From the childhood they are crying. He has got some kleśa. The mother cannot understand. He's crying.