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Bird (Conversations 1967 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Second scene, fourth act, Caitanya Mahāprabhu after finishing His South Indian tour, He came back to Jagannātha Purī, His headquarter, and after some days He started for Vṛndāvana. While He was in Vṛndāvana He was embracing the tree as old friend, and the birds were sitting on His hand, as if receiving an old friend. Because He was Kṛṣṇa. So after many years they have seen. And that scene, if you can describe how He's traveling in the Vṛndāvana forest. Then He took bath in the several vānas and ghāṭas. Ghāṭas means bathing place of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. And everywhere He felt the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī, separation. In this way He returned from Vṛndāvana, and when He came down to Prayag, modern Allahabad, at that time He met Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: So this is a great science. And people are neglecting this science. They have no, I mean to say, information. There are so many departments in universities, technological, medical, engineering, but where is the department to know or understand what is this life, what is God, what is our relationship? So this is not very good civilization. So there is life after this life. Just like progressive life, a child is progressing to youthhood, the youth is aspiring to become a big man, important man. As in this life there is progressive life, similarly, life after life, there is also progress. There are different grades of life. So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Woman: We're going to... We'll come next Sunday.

Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations... We can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds, no. But we make very nice preparations. Everyone likes. So this is one of the restriction, that you cannot take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the second restriction. And the third restriction is no intoxication—no smoking, no drinking, even no tea taking, no coffee taking, nothing: These American boys they are accustomed to all these habits very naturally, but they have given up. They don't take. In our temple there is no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, no cigarette smoking, nothing of the sort, you see. This is the third restriction. And the fourth restriction is that you cannot take part in gambling or some unnecessary sporting because you have to utilize your time. Your time is very short. If you miss this opportunity of human form of life... Because we do not know when death is coming. It is not that because I am old, I am nearing death, and you are young, you are not nearing death. Who knows that you may die before me? So there is no certainty. So the principle is that because this human form of life is so important to perfect oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should not waste even a minute. You see? So therefore we don't allow unnecessary sporting. You see? This is simply waste of time.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Expansion is direct, and incarnation is indirect. When expansion of expansion is accepted, that is called kalā, incarnation, avatāra, kalā. So Advaita is not direct. The example is given in Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like you get one candle kindled from the first candle, another from the second, another from the third. So similarly, either expansion or incarnation, they are all candles. The original candle is Kṛṣṇa. It is not that expansion of expansion is less powerful. The candle power is the same either origin or expansion or expansion of the expansion. It is not that Nityānanda is less powerful than Caitanya, or Advaita is less powerful than... No. Any incarnation or expansion has the same potency, Viṣṇu-tattva. The manifestation of potency is different. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Lord Rāma is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But one is original. Kṛṣṇa is original, and Rāma is an expansion. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore as ideal king He was limiting Himself with the moral principles of this world. And Kṛṣṇa, being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He exhibited that He's above any principle of the material world. He's free to act any way He likes. Otherwise what is the meaning... Means full-fledged manifestation of God. Lord Rāma, He married only one, Sītā. And when Sītā was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, He never married again. Or when Sītā was sent to the forest for public opinion, He never married again. He remained a sticked to, stuck to only one wife because He was setting example, moral principle, to the world. Kṛṣṇa married 16,108. Not religious. Religious, He married only eight wife. But these 16,100 girls were kidnapped by one demon, and they were concentrated in a camp. So they prayed to Kṛṣṇa to save them. Kṛṣṇa is kind to everyone. So Kṛṣṇa came to their rescue, and He killed that demon. He rescued all the girls. But the girls requested Kṛṣṇa that "Because we were kidnapped and we are concentrated under his custody, so if we go back to our father, it will be difficult for him to get us married to a suitable prince. So our request is that You marry us." (Prabhupāda laughs) Kṛṣṇa agreed, "All right." He married wholesale, 16,100. (laughter) And that can be possible. Why 16,100? He can marry 16 million at a time. Otherwise how He's God? Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises his classfellows that "Don't be bothering yourself for solution of economic question." That is already provided. Just like all these animals, these birds, they have no question how to live, how to eat, how to mate, how to defend. This is already there. They're eating, they're sleeping, they're mating, and they're defending as far as required. Just see the birds, as soon as they see us they go away, take defense. (laughs) So the defending propensity is there. How you can say the man is greater intelligence? There is intelligence. They were here, and as soon as they saw, "Here are come all the men. They can eat us. Let us fly there." The man cannot come in the water. So don't you see the defensive propensity is here? You may, according to your intelligence, you may discover defensive weapons, nuclear weapons, and aeroplanes, and bombs, and so many things. Because you have got higher intelligence.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification you can get in hog society, dog society, without any, I mean to say, extra qualification. That is... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya means this sense gratificatory business, you will have in any life. In bird's life, in dog's life, in cat's life. So do you think that human life is also meant for that purpose? Then what is the meaning of civilization? Is that civilization? If the end of life is the same, just like cats and dogs, is it civilization? They do not know what is civilization. They have forgotten. They think that eating very nicely in a palatable dish, that is civilization. But eating is eating. And if you eat... If you are hungry, anything satisfies you. That is eating. Finish. You can eat. Sleeping. When you are fast asleep, you do not know whether you are on the nice building in a nice apartment. You are dreaming that you are thrown into the ocean. So sleeping. So simply for nice arrangement for sleeping, is that civilization? (break) Then life is successful. At least, if one understands that "This is my business. My business is not to work hard and end it by sense gratification. This is not my business." That is saṁsiddhi. That is success. If, at least, one understands this aim of life, even little understands, he gets next human body. That is guaranteed. At least, he is not going to get any cats' and dogs' body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). When Arjuna inquired that if a man cannot execute this yoga system, Bhakti-yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if it is half finished or one-fourth finished, or 10% finished, not complete finished, then what is the result? He is good for nothing? No. Kṛṣṇa says, "No." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even a little understood, it can save him from the greatest danger. And śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. If one is not successful in this life, then he is given another chance next life. Where? Śucīnāṁ. In nice, transcendentalist, brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava devotee or pious man, in his family. Or less than, if he is less qualified, then he is given a chance to get his birth in a rich family. Both the families. In rich family he has no economic problem. And in a pious family he gets direct opportunity to, I mean to say, advance his past Kṛṣṇa consciousness again.
Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: That is pleasure. That is material pleasure. Material pleasure means sex pleasure. That's all. The end of material pleasure, the topmost material pleasure, is sex pleasure. So all these materialists, they are trying to get pleasure from the sex life. In this way, that way, that way, that way, that way. That's all. Because they have no other information. Material pleasure means sex pleasure. Sex pleasure, tongue pleasure. They have manufactured so many things. That gentleman was sitting and asking "Can I smoke?" The tongue is agitating for... "Please, please give me one cigarette. One cigarette." He became disturbed. And we said, "No. You cannot smoke." This is material pleasure. You train up your senses in such a way that it becomes addicted. It cannot get out of the entanglement. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save you. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). They are all explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The material pleasure means sexual intercourse. That's all. That is the sum and substance of pleasure. That's all. You'll find everywhere two, one male and female, one male and female. Either legitimate or illegitimate. Either human being or animal or birds or beast, that male and female, male and female, male and female. This is material pleasure. And unless one is strongly equipped in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not possible to give up. That is the test. It is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is Madana-mohana. He can captivate even the Cupid. This is Cupid's business, attraction of male and female. And when that Kṛṣṇa attracts you, you forget this Cupid attraction. Therefore He is known as Madana-mohana.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: ...the whole atmosphere, you should come and disturb. You are making... You cannot understand? And the whole attention is diverted to you. So harā, harā is the form of the word... Hare is the form of the word harā when address, when She is addressed. And Kṛṣṇa, when He's addressed, the form does not change. This is grammatical rule. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh, the energy of Kṛṣṇa, or energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa, "the Lord." So Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means I am praying not only to the Lord, but to the energy also. This is natural. Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage. We, when I get married our boys and girls, the boy takes this vow that "I take responsibility of your maintenance throughout your whole life," and the girl promises that "I desire to serve you throughout my whole life." So the woman, the female, is the energy. When a man comes at home, he sees that everything is nicely decorated, my wife is well-dressed and foodstuff is nicely prepared, he becomes encouraged. He can work more nicely. Therefore woman is the energy. The woman gives the energy and he can work. Wherefrom this idea came? The idea came because it is originally here, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is coming from the Supreme; otherwise where do you get this idea? Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without being in the origin? Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10), Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the root of everything." So if this energy, male and female combination, is a necessity, so wherefrom this necessity came into existence unless it is there in the origin? Therefore it is to be understood that the Absolute has energy. He has got different energies.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:
Prabhupāda: So the modern civilization, they are trying to increase the degree of material fever, and they have come to the point, 107 degree-atomic bomb. Now they are going to die. You see? The American atom bomb or the Russian atom bomb will kill the whole material scientists' advancement. You see? So this is the... So, and devotees, they want to decrease the fever. Decrease the fever. Therefore the highest, ideal life, according to Vedic civilization: brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇava. They decrease their demands of the body. Minimum demand. You see? There is amongst the brāhmaṇa, not now, in the Vedic system, the uñca-vṛtti. It is called uñca-vṛtti. Uñca-vṛtti means they will go the paddy field, and after the cultivator takes all the paddies, some paddies are thrown away. They will collect those paddies only. Just like birds, they collect. They collect those paddies, and that they will eat, not even beg, ask anybody for any morsel of food. So completely... And in the Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that "Oh, this open field is your bed, this is your pillow, this is your pot, and the water in river is sufficient water, the tree is full of fruits, and in the cave, there is sufficient apartment. So why should you go, anyone, to ask for your shelter, for your food?" Kasmād bhajanti kavayor dhana-durmadandhān: "Why should you approach the materialistic, puffed-up, monied men to give you some help?" So Śukadeva Gosvāmī was strictly following this, strictly following, completely independent. That is not possible at the present day. (chuckles) If we imitate, that will be not good. We have to depose(?). Our Gosvāmīs, they have prescribed yukta-vairāgya: accept everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is yukta-vairāgya. It is also vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya means simply renunciation without assimilation. Māyāvādī sect, Śaṅkara sect, they have got stringent laws for renunciation. But Vaiṣṇavas, they have no stringent law. They accept everything as Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, actually offering Kṛṣṇa, working for Kṛṣṇa, living for Kṛṣṇa. This is the best use. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "The best use of a bad bargain." Everything in Kṛṣṇa relationship. That is yukta-vairāgya. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Vairagya means detachment. So when we are attached to Kṛṣṇa, automatically we are detached to māyā. Not artificially we want to be detached from māyā. Just like theoretically I know that I am not this body, but the bodily necessities are there because I am encaged in the body. Therefore the bodily necessities-eating, sleeping, mating, defending-should be done in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right. Then my consciousness is always in Kṛṣṇa, and I am detached to my bodily demands. And those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, their bodily demands is on the materialistic platform. They are going on, increasing the degree of fever and coming to the 107 degree. You are also going tomorrow?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Under all circumstances?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all, all circumstances, but it is the question of my appreciation, or my realization. That will depend on my purity. Otherwise this Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa, non-different. Therefore if we vibrate sound Kṛṣṇa, then I am immediately in contact with Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, then immediately I become spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you're electrified. And the more you become electrified, more you become Kṛṣṇized. Kṛṣṇized. So when you are fully Kṛṣṇized, then you are in the Kṛṣṇa platform. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9), then fully Kṛṣṇized, no more comes back to this material existence. He remains with Kṛṣṇa. The impersonalists shall say merging. That is less intelligence. Merging does not mean losing individuality. Just like a green bird enters a green tree; it appears merging, but the bird has not lost his individuality. There is individuality. Similarly Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, no, Second Chapter that I, you, adyam(?), I and all these people who have assembled; it is not that they did not exist previously neither it is that they'll not exist. That means I, you, and all these persons, they were individual in the past. At the present we see it practically, and in future they'll remain individuals. And individually we are that, in our present existence, everyone of us individual. You have got your individual views, I have got my individual views. We agree on common platform, that is different thing, but we are individual. That is our nature. Therefore there is disagreement sometimes. So the individuality is never lost. But our proposition, bhakti-mārga, is to keep individuality and agree with you.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: There is a version by Rāmānujācārya. Rāmānujācārya, he was a great ācārya of this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. His spiritual master gave him mantra: "My dear boy, you chant this mantra silently. Nobody can hear. It is very..." So then he asked, "What is the effect of this mantra?" He said, "By chanting this mantra, by meditation, you'll get liberation." So he immediately went out and in a public, big meeting he said that "You chant this mantra. You'll be all liberated." (laughter) So he came back to his spiritual master, and his spiritual master was very angry that "I told you that you should chant silently." He said, "Yes, I have committed offense. So whatever punishment you like, you can give me. But because you told me that this mantra will liberate, I have given it publicly. Let everyone hear and be liberated. Let me go to hell. I don't mind. I have disobeyed your order. Let me go to hell. I am prepared. But by this chanting mantra, if anyone is liberated, let it be publicly distributed." His spiritual master embraced him: "You are greater than me." You see? So if a mantra has so power, why it should be secret? It should be distributed. People are suffering. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Anyone who will hear... Even the birds and beasts will hear and they will be liberated." That's all.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: Canakya Pandit... I have see that book, and he says in his book that if a crow sits on a high (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you make a crow... The crow generally sits on the roof of the house, but that does not mean he has become a great man. "How great I am, a very beautiful bird."

Revatīnandana: The symbol of the Democrat party in America is the ass.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. As soon as you...

Revatīnandana: Their symbol is an ass. They have a symbol.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because they are asses.

Revatīnandana: The Republican party is elephant and the Democratic party is ass, a donkey.

Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Yamunā: Germans are like that too. Germans.

Prabhupāda: Germans. If you eat meat, you very quickly can get fat. Also too much ghee also. That is also. But ghee will increase your belly only. Just the Marwaris... (laughter) But by eating flesh you'll get sturdy, good lump of muscles. That is... In Āyur-Veda there is a chapter which is called Dravya-guṇa. There is a book, Dravya-guṇa. So they have analyzed so many different kinds of flesh-birds, beasts, animals. How they have analyzed? That "If you eat this kind flesh you will get this kind of result." Hundreds of fleshes. What do they know? They can eat only cow's flesh or dog's flesh or hog's flesh. Yes. But there are so many, even birds, beasts, animals, and so many, analysis. And Bernard Shaw, I think, he wrote one book, "You Are What You Eat."

Haṁsadūta: George Bernard Shaw.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are becoming animals, animals eating animal flesh. Bernard Shaw was vegetarian.

Devotee (6): Except he would take liver for his health.

Prabhupāda: Liver?

Devotee (6): Yes. He used to take some liver periodically for his health.

Prabhupāda: Medicine. There are many liver extract preparations.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Now we are with Sambhu in Bombay. As soon as the aeroplane would come on top of the house it is just like thunderbolt. Yes. At least I was feeling like that. Vajrapa. You see? So this is called illusion. We are creating a civilization which is so much painful, but we are thinking that we are advanced. This is illusion. We are creating simply problems, and still, we are thinking that we are advanced. And Bhāgavata says that there is no problem. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). You simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And then how I shall live? That, the answer, is tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Just like you don't aspire for miseries, but it comes upon you, it is forced upon you, similarly, happiness also will be forced upon you, whatever you are destined to receive. So don't try for happiness or discarding distress. That will go on. You simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which, without your trying, it will never be fulfilled. You have to voluntarily try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, revive it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You do it—because you have to do it. Kṛṣṇa can force you to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But He doesn't do that. He doesn't interfere with your independence. He says, "Do it." Therefore you have to try for it, not for other things. Other things, already there are. For the birds and beasts there is no problem for eating. Why your problem should be? Just like a prisoner. He has no problem for eating. The government supplies. He has only problem that he should not be criminal. That is his problem. He should try for that: "No more I shall become a criminal." That is the real activity. But he thinks... If in the prisonhouse you say, "What shall I eat?" no, eating is already there. Even you are a prisoner, the government has supplied his eating. Similarly, God has supplied everyone, cats and dogs, for eating. Why not for you? You have created your own problem. Real problem is how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (2): I'll look on here this morning.(?)

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Oh, you haven't got. You have got? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (birds crying) The sunrise is declared. "Koo koo koo koo koo." Yes. Nature's way. They'll not sleep any more. Therefore anyone who sleeps after sunrise, he is a rascal. He's a rascal. Yes. A child at once, early in the morning, rise. That is nature. But we have created such a life that we have to break all the nature laws and therefore we suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante (BG 7.14). And one who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is free. He is rising early. He has surpassed the māyā. And those who are in māyā they are sleeping. And those who are not in māyā they are rising early in the morning. Is it not? Mām eva ye prapadyante: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he becomes free from the māyā's contamination." Just see. There is maṅgala ārati. In Vṛndāvana just at four o'clock. You have heard?

Yamunā: I was just thinking, Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Immediately there is "dung, dung, dung, dung," all temples. Immediately. And people are running. Oh, they will gather all to the Deity, temple. Hundreds of people will go automatically. The same man who was living at home, a very degraded condition, as soon as he goes to Vṛndāvana he becomes habituated to all these things automatically. Automatically. Yes. The society, association, is very important.

Yamunā: Those beautiful birds, the peacock birds also at this time, they are flying in trees and waking up now and make that sound. Oh, Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: So the society is very important thing. Any, anything, society... The businessmen, they have got their association, society, to improve. Therefore the standard of this International Society should be kept very carefully. Then who will come in touch with this society will be improved automatically by association. All right. Even in the bird society there are swans and there are crows, by nature, and the crows will never go to the swans, and the swans will never come to the crows. "Birds of the same feather flock together." Yes. Therefore society required. Unless you come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, how you can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The same principle. Satāṁ prasaṅgān... Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathaḥ (SB 3.25.25). Vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. It becomes very palatable, satāṁ prasaṅgāt, in the association of devotees, not otherwise. (end)

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of increased population. This is, I say always, this is foolishness.

Guest: That's foolish?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say "increase of population," it is a proposal of foolish persons.

Guest: Oh, so someone, someone who's foolish...

Prabhupāda: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Western civilization created artificial. "This is Africa, this is America, this is Europe..."

Journalist (1): Yes. Therefore that's made living as children of God impossible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts—everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasādam.

Journalist (1): That's a very difficult doctrine for many people in civilization...

Prabhupāda: Because... That is civilized. That is civilization. Animal civilization is that one dog, as soon as the other dog is coming: "Yow! Yow! Yow! Why you are coming? Why you have come?" Just like here. Here, everywhere. The immigration department, "Oh, how long you will stay? Oh." So many things. Why? A human being is coming... Vedic civilization is, even one is enemy, if he comes to your home, you receive him as, so friendly that he will forget that you are his enemy. Yes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: You can present a literature very perfect from literary point of view, from metaphor and poetical, rhetorical, very perfectly written, citra-padam, attractive by language. Na yad vacaś citra-padam, such kind of literature, if there is no description of the glories of the Lord, na tad vacaś citra-padam. Just like there are so many sex literatures, very attractive, it is selling like anything. But we are not interested in those rascal literatures. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, such literature is considered as the place of enjoyment of the crows. Vāyasam means crow. The crow take enjoyment in the garbage, you have seen? They won't go in a nice place. They will come all together. Just like vultures, they come together to take pleasure in a corpse, dead body. But a white swan, rāja-haṁsa, he goes to a place where there is nice water, lilies and lotus and nice trees. You have seen that St. James Park? They will find out such nice place. They won't go to imitate the crows. The crows-like people will take pleasure in such nonsense literature, sex literature, or any such literature. So many nonsense literatures nowadays they are having good sale. Because people are becoming crows-like, they have no high idea, they have no sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally they will take. Just like hippies, they have become all bad taste, crows-like. So we have to become swans, rāja-haṁsa, paramahaṁsa, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you remain crows, then you cannot, that is not possible. By nature's example we have to see if crows-like and swans-like, pigeons-like, birds of the same feather. Birds of the same feather flock together, is it not? So you have to change your feather, then he will be pleased. If you keep your feather crows-like, then you cannot mix with the swans, that is not possible. This is the test. There are classes of men like crows, and there are classes of men like swans.
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Man and woman. So if you want to get liberation from this material world, then that attachment should be reduced to nil. Otherwise, simply for that attachment, you'll have to take birth and rebirth, either as human being or as demigod or as an animal, as a serpent, as a bird, as a beast. You have to take birth. So this basic principle of attachment, increasing, is not our business. It is decreasing. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. This is the general tendency, but if one can reduce and stop it, that is first class. Therefore our Vedic system is that first of all a boy is trained as a brahmacārī, no sex life. Brahmacārī. He goes to the teacher's home. (pause—a devotee chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa over loudspeaker is very loud.) Who is this? Stop it. (break) The whole principle is, Vedic principle is, to reduce it, not to increase it. Therefore the whole system is varṇāśrama-dharma. Our, the Indian system is called varṇa and āśrama, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The social order is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Uh, this is spiritual order. And social order is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So under this system the regulative principles are so nice that even one has got the tendency for enjoy material life, he is so nicely molded that at last he gets liberation and goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process. So sex life is not required on principle, but because we are attached to that, therefore there are some regulative principles.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: That is kangaroo.

Devotee (1): And platypuses.

Devotee (4): And platypus, the platypus animal.

Śyāmasundara: Half bird, half...

Devotee (4): Half snake.

Śyāmasundara: Under water.

Devotee (4): Half beaver?

Prabhupāda: Hm, snake? Snake?

Devotee (1): Yeah, it's part... It has some snake features, it has webbed feet, it has a duck like a beaver, a body like a...

Devotee (4): A tail like a beaver.

Śyāmasundara: A bill like a duck.

Devotee (1): And a tail like a beaver, and a body like a wolverine or something.

Prabhupāda: So the Vedic literature says 8,400,000.

Devotee (1): This is all in one.

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. If somebody is thinking, "If I had like this, like that, like that, like that." "All right you will have all." (laughter) Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to save himself in this way, that... "Yes, all are granted," but still he had to die. All granted. So we are trying to take facilities from Kṛṣṇa beginning from "O God, give us our daily bread, then give me motorcar, then give me airplane, then give me this, give me that." "Take all, but you will never be happy unless you surrender to Me. You take all." This is going on. The modern civilization, they are wanting, "We may have this, we may have that, we may have this, we may have that." "Yes, you take all. But don't talk of happiness, please." That is the only problem. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want this. Otherwise, you take whatever you like.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And 2,000,000 of leaves and plants, botany, botanical. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Insects, there are 1,100,000 forms. (Sanskrit) Then (Sanskrit). From insect, they become flies and birds. (Sanskrit) One million. Then from birds, the beasts come, four-legged. (Sanskrit). Three million species of beasts. Then from beasts, the human form comes—either from monkey or from lion or from cows. Out of these three, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who are coming through rajo-guṇa, their last birth before human form of birth is lion. And those who are coming in the form ignorance, Darwin's father-in-law, (laughs) monkey, and ignorance. And those who are coming in goodness, their last form of birth is cow. So this is our scientific information from the Vedas. We haven't got to make research. Everything is there. That is Vedic knowledge. They have got already everything written there. The astronomy, everything is written there; simply you have to calculate. Astrology, we say simply mathematical calculation. If the moon is in this position and the other stars is in this position, the effect will be like this and the result will be like this. Like that. So you haven't got to make search or research. It is already there. Similarly, this Darwin's theory is there in two lines. (Sanskrit) Asati, asati means eighty. Catura means four, eighty and four lakṣāṇi, lakhs, 400,000. Eighty-four hundred thousand, that means eighty million, four hundred thousand. (Sanskrit) Jīva means living entity; jāti means species. Jīva-jātiṣu, brahmadbhiḥ. The living entity is wandering or transmigrating from aquatics to trees, plants, then insect, then birds, then beasts. In this way the last is human form of life. Brahmadbhiḥ, brahmadbhiḥ, wandering. (Sanskrit), last he is getting (Sanskrit), by the evolution of birth. Now this form is for understanding Govinda, God. The other forms, they cannot. So if in this form the living entity does not contact Govinda... Contacting Govinda means surrendering unto Govinda. As Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So after many, many, many millions of births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Then he goes back to home, back to Godhead. That is our program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Martin: So there's something higher than human form?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Demigods. (Sanskrit) Generally three divisions: demigods, human beings and other than human beings.

Martin: Primitive cavemen?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Martin: Primitive cavemen?

Prabhupāda: No, not only cavemen: the animals, birds, beasts, other than.

Martin: Oh, I see. (more thunder)

Prabhupāda: But this human form of life is better than demigods' life because demigods, they are materially very opulent. Just like when the Americans came in India, they thought, "Demigods." Is it not?

Martin: The Indians thought. Hm.

Prabhupāda: Because they're better looking, good looking, intelligent, powerful. Similarly, just like this controller or director of this rain department is Indra. This thundering, it is under his direction this thundering is going on. He throws the thunderbolts and cracks the mountain, and then we get chunks. That is his business. As in government there are different departments, similarly, God has got different departments, and the in-charge of that department is demigod. Creation, that's Brahma; sustenance or maintenance, Himself, Viṣṇu; and dissolution, Lord Siva.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Who has created the brain of Professor Einstein? You have not created. You are trying to make a xerox copy, that's all. But the original is already there. Now who has created the original brain? Then you have to go to God. But you have not created. It is not my men(?). If man could create such brain, then, "Ah, never mind, the professor has died. We create another person like." That you cannot. So even if you are able to imitate, you are not the supreme scientist. First of all it is doubtful. So accepting that you will be able to copy or xerox copy of Einstein's brain, that does not give you the credit. The credit is already there, God's credit. At least we shall not give you any credit. We shall speak that the original brain is created by God. You cannot create. If you had the power to create, then there was no necessity of copying. You could create better brain. That you haven't got. You are trying to take xerox copy from that brain. Just like big, big aeroplanes are flying, but their, the shape is made after the bird. The original shape bird is created by God. He has got the same type of machine even within an insect, small insect flying. You can create a small aeroplane like that. That is not possible. Then what is your credit? Here is God's credit, a small fly, near water. You create it. You see? You can create a big, but you cannot a small. Therefore you are incapable. But God can create the biggest and the smallest. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He can create the greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But a child or dog enters, that is not trespassing. A child or dog or cat, they enter without any permission. Therefore this animal kingdom and the human being, there is difference. By the evolutionary process we come to the human form of life. When we were animals... We were animals also. We are passing through 8,400,000 forms of life—from aquatic to plants, trees, then insect, then flies, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized human beings, jungle, then come to this Aryan form, civilized form of human being. So it is obtained after many, many transmigrations. And if we do not understand the responsibility... Just like in an establishment one man is promoted. His first charge is doorkeeper, then he is gradually he is given promotion; he may come to the post of the manager. Just like in bank, it so happens. They must go through all the different stages of service. So when he becomes manager, if he does not know the responsibility, again he comes to the lowest position. Again he has to strive for the top. So if we forget our responsibility and become like cats and dogs, then we are going back again to take the forms of cats and dogs. This is a great science. Nobody is very serious to understand this science, but the science is there. We are, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people about this science. They're neglecting this science. That means they are violating the prerogative of the chance, the facility of human being. After all, you have to die; you cannot check it. But if you die like the cats and dogs, then our life is spoiled, and if you die like a human being, then our life is perfect. Everyone will die, but one who dies like a human being for understanding what is God, what is my relationship with Him, and acting in relationship with God, then our life is perfect. So you like this philosophy or not?

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. (laughter). Yes. So, what is our business with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? (child makes noise) (aside) This child will disturb. Our, this movement is that we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. If I love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then naturally I will be obedient to the laws of God. It is not? Just like these, my students, when, say four or five years ago, I came here, I had no student. I was loitering in the street. Nobody was caring for me. Now I have got hundreds and thousands of student. They can do whatever I order. So I did not pay them anything, neither I brought any money from India, but they are executing my order simply out of love. Is it not a fact? Because they have developed a love for me... The reason may be whatever it may be, but unless they have developed love for me, how they can execute my order without any personal profit? Therefore this is first thing required, that religion means to abide by the orders of God. Simple thing. And this obedience to the laws of God will be automatically performed if everyone loves his dormant love for God. We have taken this science. We are teaching everyone how to love God. If he thinks that "I have learned to love God through some particular religion," we have no objection. Either he is Christian or Hindu or Muslim or whatever he may be, if by executing the religious principles which he is professing he has developed his love of God, then we have nothing to preach to him. The result is there. But because we don't find the love of God is there, that we are putting a simple formula that "Here is the way." By utilizing or by accepting that way he will very quickly love God. So if we agree, if we are convinced that to love God is religion, and that is our main business in the human form of life, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the genuine scientific movement. Everyone should take it. This is the (indistinct). But if somebody thinks that "My aim of life is different. I don't care for God," that is a different case. But our philosophy is, this human life is especially meant for developing that God consciousness or to know the art how to love God. Because the animals, they cannot. I cannot preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy amongst the animals, because their consciousness is not so developed. But still, my movement is so perfect that I can do well even to the cats and dogs—by offering prasādam, by giving him chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This vibration is transcendental. When it is chanted it is good for everyone, all living entities. Therefore we go to the street and chant so that everyone can hear the transcendental vibration.

So if it is accepted that religion means the law of God... Is that accepted? Now we have to study what are the special laws of God and what is the nature of God. That is divine search. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand the nature of God, that he is the supreme father. Is there any objection? God is the supreme father. I think in Christian religion also they accept. Is it not? Now, the supreme father says that all living entities, not only these human being or the civilized human being but even the animals, the trees, plants, the insects, birds, beasts, fishes or other aquatics—any living entity, even a small insect. Living entity means who has got that vital force of moving. Some of them are not moving also, just like trees. They do not move, but still they are living entity. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that all living entities, irrespective of bodily feature, they are sons of God. What do you think of this conception?

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs. Things are coming and going like seasonal changes. Arjuna put this question to Kṛṣṇa: "This is a catastrophe! I have to kill my own men." Although Arjuna believed this to be a catastrophe, Kṛṣṇa likened it to seasonal changes. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons." In the winter season water is not very pleasant, but in the summer it is very pleasing. What then, is the condition of water? Is it pleasing or not? The water is the same, but in touch with our skin it becomes pleasing or not according to the climatic circumstances. Just because the summer is hot, should I give up cooking? Work must be done. Similarly, just because water is cold in the winter, should I give up my bath? No. These things may come and go, but we have to do our duty. Our duty is Kṛṣṇa consciousness; that is our philosophy, and that is an actual fact. These seasonal changes may come and go in life; sometimes they may please us, and sometimes they may pinch us, but our duty in human life is to understand God. We shouldn't care for all these catastrophes that come and go. We should have no concern, for their nature is like that—sometimes pleasing and sometimes not pleasing. Despite all this, we have to do our duty, understand God.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is only in this direction that people are working so hard, because they want more and more.

Prabhupāda: They are working hard because they are hogs and dogs. There is no need of working hard. Nature's arrangement is so perfect that if you live natural life, there is no need of hard work. This tree is standing in one place; it is not at all working. How it is standing and living? It is also living entity. The birds and beasts, they have no scientific laboratory. How they are living happily? So your advanced brain means you are spoiling, you do not know how to utilize the brain. The brain wants to be utilized for searching out Kṛṣṇa, but instead of Kṛṣṇa, you are searching out ashes, that's all. Brain is being misused.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this search for these symptoms are based only on the bodily comforts or bodily aspects.

Prabhupāda: But where you are getting the bodily comforts? Supposing you are (indistinct). The (indistinct) searches after bodily comfort, but still they are not getting bodily comfort. Where is the bodily comfort? There is disease, there is old age. Where is bodily comfort? You cannot stop it. It is very good that you are searching after bodily comfort, but there are so many discomforts of the body and the mind. You cannot stop it, then where is your actually benefit of searching out bodily comfort? You could not do it. Where is bodily comfort?

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should understand, but the person who is putting on the dress... Just like I remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthful condition. So many things I remember. So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another. Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insects, then birds. This is evolution of different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible. Just like the citizens, if they create their own way of śānti, there cannot be peace. If they abide by the orders of the government, by the laws of the government, there will be peace. This is crude example. Similarly, if you do not accept God in the center as the Supreme Proprietor and the Supreme Enjoyer and the Supreme Friend, then there is no peace.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Now, what kind of body you are going to accept? There are 8,400,000 varieties of bodies. Is it not? Do you know that?

Scholar: No, we don't know that. (indistinct) varieties of bodies.

Prabhupāda: There are forms of body in the water, in the land, so many trees, plants and there are so many insects, reptiles. Then birds, then there are beasts, then there are human being. So there are 8,400,000 forms of body. Here it is indicated that after giving up this body, the soul is going to accept another body. Now the human civilization, is it not duty of the human society to know what kind of body I am going to accept?

Scholar: No, I think it's up to God and karma-kāṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Rice. And vṛścika means scorpion. The scorpions enter within the heaps of rice and lay their eggs. And by heat of the rice, they, another baby vṛścika come out. And when they're coming out of the, that taṇḍula, rice, the rascals are thinking that the rice is begetting the vṛścika. They do not know the inner secrecy that another vṛścika, scorpion, has laid down the eggs within the rice, and by the fermentation of the heat of the rice, the eggs are fructified and the living entities coming out. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So many birds...

Prabhupāda: They have got their food. Everyone is intelligent enough where to find out food, where to lie down. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya. How to have sex. Everyone is intelligent. Even a small insect, the flies. I see, at night, they have sex. One fly after another. Everyone knows it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the inborn quality of the living entities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. The only special significance of human being is that he has got special intelligence to understand what is Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So therefore his first duty is to know the Absolute Truth. Not waste time for eating, sleeping, mating. The modern material civilization is wasting time, so-called advancement of material comforts. Simply wasting time. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ (SB 2.1.3). They are wasting time at night either by sleeping or by sexual intercourse. Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. And during daytime, simply: "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" And as soon as they get money, they spend it for kuṭumba-bharaṇa, for maintaining the family. This is their business. The sum total of modern civilization. And if they can purchase a nice car, that is the success of their life. Kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. Not only for himself, for his wife, for his children, if he has got three cars. Just like our Mukunda Mahārāja is doing. He's earning one thousand dollars and spending in car. That is his Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the inborn quality of the living entities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. The only special significance of human being is that he has got special intelligence to understand what is Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So therefore his first duty is to know the Absolute Truth. Not waste time for eating, sleeping, mating. The modern material civilization is wasting time, so-called advancement of material comforts. Simply wasting time. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ (SB 2.1.3). They are wasting time at night either by sleeping or by sexual intercourse. Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. And during daytime, simply: "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" And as soon as they get money, they spend it for kuṭumba-bharaṇa, for maintaining the family. This is their business. The sum total of modern civilization. And if they can purchase a nice car, that is the success of their life. Kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. Not only for himself, for his wife, for his children, if he has got three cars. Just like our Mukunda Mahārāja is doing. He's earning one thousand dollars and spending in car. That is his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rascal boy is so much captivated with the rascal girl. He's thinking that he's happy. He's spoiling his life. (pause) Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā (SB 2.1.3). Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api, teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati (SB 2.1.4). Dehāpatya. Deha means body. Apatya means children. Dehāpatya-kalatra. Kalatra means wife. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣu. He thinks: "They are my soldiers. I'll fight with nature, struggle for existence. And they'll save me." Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api. Although he knows that they'll not exist, still he's so mad, teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanam, he knows I'll not exist, the soldiers will not be able to help me. paśyann api na paśyati, he sees and still he does not see. Paśyann api na paśyati. He knows by practical experience that "This society, friendship, love, nation, nobody can save me." But still he thinks that "They'll save me." Just like when you, in the aeroplane, there may be thousands of aeroplanes, others, but when your aeroplane is in danger, nobody can save you. You have to save yourself, Otherwise, you go to hell. Similarly, we have to save ourself individually by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What this material advancement will save me? Will the material advancement of knowledge can save anyone from death? Is it possible? Real problem, duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So what this material advancement of science will help in this connection? They'll bluff: "Yes, in the future, we shall do." That's all. Bluffing. Past, present, future, never they'll be able to help. Still they're proud. "Yes, in the future, we shall do it." Dehāpatya kalatrādiṣu. Tasmād ekena manasā bhagavān sātvatāṁ patiḥ śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca dhyeyaḥ pūjyaś ca nityadā. (pause) Dehāpatya kalatradiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api (SB 2.1.4). (pause). They have discovered so many... Can they fly like the birds are flying, all together? There is no collision. They can go with full force. There is no collision. They haven't got even intelligence like the birds. And they're proud. If a small bird, they'll fly together, flock together, with great force, they'll not collapse. Can the scientists arrange flying like that. Immediately, they'll be all smashed. Still, they're proud of intelligence. What intelligence you have got? You are less intelligent than the birds.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: The ants, thousands of them without colliding. But the cars, they're always colliding.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The living entities, when the soul is inside a body, they're much more flexible than the, the aeroplanes or cars that are made by the scientists?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The aeroplane wings, they're fixed up. But the bird wings, he can do like this. Even they can do like that, where is the credit? It is already there. Many millions and thousands. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In physical sciences, there's a branch called thermodynamics that deals with the transfer of heat and energy in different forms. So their three laws is called first law, second law and the third law. First law deals with the conservation of energy in different forms. And the second law, it is stated that the energy of the universe is constant. Just like the, in the Śrī Īśopaniṣad, the Invocation, pūrṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the other hand the second law says that the, the entropy, that means the randomness of the all natural, spontaneously occurring natural processes, always increase. The randomness...

Prabhupāda: But... Thing is that they are studying the laws very nicely. That's good. But they should appreciate that who has made this law? That is their defect. They are studying how the laws of nature is working. That's nice. But they should appreciate at the same time: Who made such subtle laws that they are working so nicely? That is our philosophy. We do not only study the laws and appreciate it, but we study the law-maker also. That is the difference between ourself and the so-called scientists. They are left, poor fund of knowledge. They cannot appreciate that there is a law-maker of these subtle laws. That is their defect. That is called poor fund of knowledge. And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're smart.

Prabhupāda: So that smartness you haven't got. Even of a small bird. And still you are proud of advancement. The vulture goes up and he can see everything but when you go up, aeroplane, up you cannot see where is your home. Is it not? They can find out, four miles, five miles away, where is a corpse. Immediately they flock. (pause) What is this building? Some...

Karandhara: An auditorium. We're going to have a festival here on, next month.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. What do they charge?

Karandhara: Well, if you don't charge anything, they don't charge you anything for using it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they don't charge?

Karandhara: No. If you don't charge people for coming to the function, they don't charge you for using this place.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Karandhara: It's owned by the city.

Prabhupāda: This is good. We can hold meetings, distribute prasādam. (pause) They have discovered computer machine...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is dirty.

Prabhupāda: It is loose. On account of hastiness, I could not properly set up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some birds, Śrīla Prabhupāda, like the minaḥ...?

Prabhupāda: Minaḥ, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can be taught to say something. So if they are taught to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa...,

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...then are this, this is a good service?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Little service. By hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be elevated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the bird doesn't know that he's chanting...

Prabhupāda: No, he doesn't know.

Brahmānanda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He could teach animals the chanting of the names of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu can do everything. He can deliver anyone without chanting. For Him, there is no condition. So this morning, I could not wash my face. So therefore, the cookies may be distributed to the devotees. I have not washed my face, you see. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (end of recording)

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It doesn't matter.

Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't mat... Therefore they're all madmen. You can speak in your own way. I'll speak in my own way and another fool thinks that both of them are scientists. They do not agree. Still he's scientist. Just see. Cheaters and the cheated. Somebody's cheating and somebody's becoming cheated. The whole society's the combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. I see both of them, they do not agree. Just like they have rejected religion because two religionists, they do not agree. So why not these rascal scientists? They do not agree. Just see. They are so fool. But still they are after that. Their modern people they have rejected religion because they say that one religionist does not agree with another religionist. So there is no... Skepticism. So why not about the scientists? Just see. Everywhere you will find contradiction. Therefore anyone... and we are find out this contradiction because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Others cannot find out. We are challenging scientists, philosophers, although we are teeny person, because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, who is detecting their follies? Nobody. The scientist's follies, the philosopher follies, their contradiction... A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. We have got simple formulas in the śāstras. Simply on the basis of those formulas... Whole Vedic literature is like that. Just like Āyurveda, Āyurveda or astrology. Everything is like that. Āyurveda, the medicine. They have to learn only the beating of the pulse. If one becomes expert in which way the pulse beating is going on... They have got example. Just like some birds jump over like this. Some bird goes like this. So they have got example how the pulse is beating, jumping or easily going. So the symptoms, if one can study, he becomes physician, first-class. Immediately. Because as soon as he can study the pulse, how it is beating, in which way... That is, that requires little experience. Then immediately the formula is that if the pulse is beating in this way, then these symptoms will be there.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So one has to have certain qualifications.

Prabhupāda: Everyone has got. The bird has got also certain qualifications. What is this. You cannot jump over like that. Just see how it is doing, a small bird. He has got complete sense how to protect. He's doing his business. So everyone has got some qualification, by nature's gift. One bird can go seven miles away and he can see where is his food. You cannot see half a mile even. What is the value of your eyes in comparison to that bird? There are so many wonderful things done by the animals, without any scientific knowledge, so-called scientific knowledge. So scientific knowledge for material comforts, that knowledge is there even in the birds and beasts, for material comforts. They know how to do it. Why these laboratories? There is no need of. Because if your knowledge is for these four things, eating, sleeping and mating, then what is the value of such knowledge? The bird will also die after eating, sleeping. You'll also die after eating, sleeping. Then where is the advancement of knowledge. You have not improved in any way than the birds and the beasts. You cannot check death. The bird also cannot check death. Then where is the advancement? Simply the bird is finding out food by the beaks, and you eat on a table, chair. Therefore you are advanced? You are also eating, he's also eating. He's eating his own way. You are eating in his own way. Does it mean advancement? But when death comes, the bird will be also kicked out, you'll be also kicked out. Then where is your advancement.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that is not advancement. That is wasting time. Suppose primitive man, he has got also sensual engagement. Does the primitive man has no sex life? He has got his woman. He has got sex life. The dog has got sex life. The cat has got sex life. You have got sex life. And because you have your sex life nicely dressed, you are advanced? This is foolishness. We have to see the result. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These four things, eating, sleeping, sex life and defence, even you'll find in the birds and beasts. And you are, if you are engaged in these four things, in so-called scientific way, then where is your advancement? When death will come, your science will not save you. As the bird will not be saved, you'll not be saved. Then where is your advancement? You are going on the motor car, say, twenty miles. One bird can fly fifty miles. Even he's more expert. I have seen in the ship, the skylark they go equal speed. The ship is running on, twenty-five miles speed or thirty miles. They're going. So where is your expert? By nature, it is expert. Just like these dogs, they are jumping with great force in the ocean and they'll come back; similarly you also go with your surf, and again come back. Where is the difference between this dog and you? So you have to compare that where, where is your advancement of knowledge? Advancement of knowledge means to mitigate, minimize miseries of life. That is called advancement of knowledge. But you... The real miseries of life is birth, death, old age and disease. You cannot do anything. So where is your advancement of knowledge? The scientists cannot stop death, cannot stop birth. They are inventing so many chemical contraceptive methods. But the statistic is population is increasing. Even they're unsuccessful in this account. The statistics is that every minute or second, three persons are increasing all over the world. Where is your contraceptive? You cannot check even birth. Birth, de ... and Bhagavad-gītā says: "These are real problems, birth, death, old age and disease." So what you have done about these things? We have to see. Then we can accept that you are advanced.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without the proper guidance...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything requires guidance. You are working in the laboratory under guidance. Similarly, everything requires guidance. Just like these small birds. First of all, they learn with the mother. The mother goes and they go. The mother come back, they come back. So guidance. Nature's way, guidance. And when they become little habituated, then without mother, they can do their business. That guidance is there everywhere. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause—break) ...kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). "Anyone who reaches Me, he does not come back to this material world full of miseries and temporary life." That means anyone who goes back to home, back to Godhead, there is no misery, there is no temporary life. It must be the opposite. Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām... That is highest perfection. Paramām. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. Every... all this scientific research is going on for perfection. They say the world is imperfect. That's, that is a fact. Imperfect. Imperfect means here you cannot get happiness and cannot live permanently. This is imperfection. That they do not know. That question they set aside. The problem, if you say to the scientist: "What you have done for the human society to live eternally in perfect happiness?" What is their answer?

Brahmānanda: They do just the opposite. They accelerate the death and they create more problems.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that they are trying.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore we kick on your face. (laughter) Therefore we have got the right to kick on your face. (laughter) Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They say progress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Progress towards death. That's all. That the animal has got also. They're also progressing. The frog, ca ca canh, ca ca canh, progress. The progress is that the snake is coming nearer, kāla-sarpa. (pause) Not a single instance of these birds being overpowered by the waves. They're so expert. Not touching the water, although working with big, big waves. Wherefrom he got this knowledge? You can study. You stand. Not a single instance you'll find that it is overpowered by the waves. Immediately comes. Spontaneously.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kṛṣṇa within is directing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's directing you also. But these, how this direction takes place? According to your desire. If you want to be cheated, Kṛṣṇa will direct you how you become cheated.

Brahmānanda: From Him comes forgetfulness as also remembrance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You don't want to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa will give you such direction you'll never understand Kṛṣṇa, life after life. So Kṛṣṇa has got two kinds of direction, according to my desire, positive and negative. (pause) Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). As, as you want direction, Kṛṣṇa will give you direction.

Morning Walk -- April 27, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...animals, goes like this?

Karandhara & Svarūpa Dāmodara: Crabs?

Karandhara: Crabs and lobsters, yeah.

Brahmānanda: Birds. (pause)

Prabhupāda: They have got suitable beak, suitable beak to capture. Yes. (pause) What is this big bird?

Brahmānanda: A seagull.

Prabhupāda: They also eat fish?

Brahmānanda: Fish and garbage, everything.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If we add the conservation of energy from the invocation of Īśopaniṣad, it will be a great challenge to science.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is conservation of energy. Pūrṇam idam, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).

Morning Walk -- April 27, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Jellyfish? No, I don't think so. (pause)

Prabhupāda: They are meant for the birds?

Karandhara: Fishes, other fish eat them.

Prabhupāda: Oh, fish also.

Karandhara: Yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Water, they're also composition of atomic grains?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The hydrogen and oxygen, they're called compound. Compound of hydrogen and oxygen.

Prabhupāda: So hydrogen and oxygen, they have got grains, molecular.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is called molecules, molecule of water.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are innumerable molecules in water.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. In the sunshine also, there is molecules, shining particles.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're called photons.

Prabhupāda: Protons?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Photons. P, H, O, T, O, N.

Prabhupāda: Oh, photons. Similarly we are also photons of Kṛṣṇa. That is our original position.

Brahmānanda: Like spot.

Prabhupāda: Spot, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When a wave comes, they run this way, and when the wave goes down, they run down.

Prabhupāda: When the waves bring the food, so immediately they capture. So there is no scarcity of food, even for the small birds. And we are in scarcity. The scientist is manufacturing tablet.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're going to convert the wood, the big woods to food also, by treating with the enzymes. That is one of the...

Prabhupāda: Programs.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The wood that grows big, big trees, they say, in a few years, then these will be converted to food by treating with enzymes.

Prabhupāda: That means there will be no food, natural food. That is stated in Bhāgavata. You don't, you'll not get these grains, sugar, milk. This will be stopped. You have to eat woods. Yes. By your advancement of civilization, you have to eat woods.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anything eatables?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (Laughs) No, not so far.

Brahmānanda: Future.

Prabhupāda: "In future." But God creates so many eatables from sand. Do you know?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The smaller birds, they are eating something from sand?

Prabhupāda: No, even for man. The cantaloupe, watermelon, they are produced in sand in large quantity. Kharmuja. (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lemons also.

Prabhupāda: Not lemon. Watermelon. These are the products of the desert, as well as dates. Just like these date trees can grow in sand. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday's Bhāgavata lecture, the example that the hundred dollar bill, one hundred dollar bill. So if somebody picks up and takes it, he's a thief, and if somebody who just does not care...

Prabhupāda: Does not take it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he's also not good. And the one who takes up and says, "Whose coin is this?" Then he's good.

Prabhupāda: Yes, his service is better.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot enjoy anything. You have to accept everything as prasādam. First of all you take sanction from the proprietor. Then you he will give... That is your business. Just like if I want to use this land, I have to take permission from the government, that "I want this land. Give me permission." So when government gives you permission you can use. Otherwise you will be criminal. You cannot say, "Oh, there are so much land, let me encircle it with my fence and I live there." No. Immediately criminal. You cannot do anything as you like with this ocean. Can you do? No you have to take permission from the government. Just like the fishing boats, they have got government permission. Otherwise they cannot. Therefore in the Īśopaniṣad it is said, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). Tena tyaktena. "When it is sanctioned, when it is given to you, then you enjoy." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. "Do not touch anyone's property." This is Vedic injunction. So if everything belongs to God, how you can touch it without His permission? But they are rascals. They do not know who is God, where is God, how to take permission. They do not know. Therefore they become criminals. They are suffering. Encroaching upon God's property and therefore they are suffering. All these things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything belongs to God, and because we are sons of God, we can use the father's property. But not more than what I require. Just like in a family everything is father's property, and if you eat more, all the good things in the family, that is not allowed. You must take what the mother or the father gives you. That is your business. Similarly everything is God's property. Everyone, even the birds, beasts, everyone has right to use the father's property. Just like the birds. They will use. Just like they are picking up the small fishes. So as much they require, they are allowed, "Take it." But they are not making any stock for speculation. Man does that.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are just speculating that life started spontaneously. There was a time, they said, it started all spontaneously, only once.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But life, whether begins from life or matter? That is the question. You are saying that life started from matter. We are saying life started from life. How to make solution of this question? For life starting from life, we can see practically. Birds, beasts, human beings, they are begetting children, eggs. The life from life, he's a living entity. That we have got proof. But where is the proof that life started from the matter? Where is that proof? Just give one instance that "Here is a life starting from matter." Where is that instance? Anyway, at least one audience protested. It will be recorded. And he said, "I do not know."

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because there is no solid background.

Prabhupāda: No. (pause, japa) You and Dr. Rao just make a combination, world-touring. I shall give you all expenditure. And go to the universities, scientists, and talk with them. Our kīrtana party also will go. We challenge all scientists, "Come on." We shall pay all expenditure. Ask Dr. Rao to come and join. Just like in Calcutta University, all the students... No, one leader student, he came. He talked about economic development, and he said that "Our students did not derive any faith by your theological statement." So I told them that "Because you are all rascals, therefore you could not." I told them freely. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā... Because they are student of Sanskrit. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). "So you are amongst these. You are duṣkṛtinas, sinful, lowest of the mankind, and the university is responsible for creating such rascals." So professors clapped and later on they said, "Swamiji, you have rightly said." All the professors said. And so far economic question is concerned, the birds, beasts, animals, they have no economic concern. Why you have got? You are less than bird and beast, you have created this economic problem. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Where is the economic question? The small birds, tiny birds, they are solving their economic question, coming (makes sound:) "bup, bup," finished. They are not stocking, they are not thinking of tomorrow, but are satisfied. They have got eating, sufficient eating, sufficient sex, sufficient intelligence to defend. As soon as we go, immediately they fly away. That is defense. They know how to defend them. They immediately understand, "They are human beings, stronger. They may do some harm. Let us fly away." So these things are everywhere, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. There is no scarcity. Only scarcity is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we have to preach. Theology... Logy means science, is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is direction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working. Where is the difficulty to understand? Now, this man thinks himself very stout and strong, but why he is stout and strong? On account of that small spiritual spark is there. As soon as the small spiritual spark is gone, stout and strong has no meaning. Immediately all the birds will come. Vultures will come and eat him, eat the body. Immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Without the inconvenience. Mean, in the material world there are so many inconveniences. So spiritual world, there is no inconvenience. Inebriety. It is a reflection of the spiritual world, but there are so many difficulties here. Therefore it is called material world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, my question being, so they have all the variegatedness in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Yes there are trees, there are water, birds, beasts, but they are all spiritual. Just like here everything is material. Here water is working according to the material laws. In the spiritual world if I say, "Please come here," he will come here. That is spiritual world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the difference is that the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: Everything spiritual... As here everything is material, there everything is spiritual. Now try to understand what is matter, what is spirit. Spirit, as I was explaining yesterday, the spirit is the conductor, operator, of the aeroplane. So matter is working under the guidance of spirit. So there everything being spirit, there is no necessity of another spiritual guidance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we have in this material world we have the evolution.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no evolution because there is no birth.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But population is reducing, it is increasing. You take the statistics, the world population is increasing, it is not decreasing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is increasing, but not as fast as the...

Prabhupāda: Anyway it is increasing; it is not decreasing. And besides that, there is no such restriction among the birds and beasts. How you can make more for... A cat, a dog, a hog, this birth—one dozen children at a time. And twice in a year. So increasing population is more there, they have got more capacity. So they are not fasting.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that because of our medical science, the number of deaths are decreasing. The number of births are increasing and death the rate is decreasing because of medical science.

Prabhupāda: Due to medical science, death is...?

Brahmānanda: Decreasing. People are living longer.

Prabhupāda: It is all nonsense. Who lives now hundred years. Thirty, forty, fifty, finished. It is another nonsense. At the present age, does anybody live like his grandfather? No. No. That's not a fact. At the present moment the maximum years-eighty years. Formerly they were living a hundred years. My grandmother lived for ninety-six years.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's like you, chemist, just missing something, "In future we shall do it." It is the same thing. And these fools, Dr. Radhakrishnan and company, they are so fools that so many animals they are walking on the sea, "I am going to see another man." Just see, how they are fools. What is their credit? The sea lark. They call sea lark? They go very nicely. Why do they not see that? He is animal, he is, another is an animal.

Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Birds can float and they can fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Dr. Radhakrishnan was a big rascal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I could not believe by that time. I said, "It cannot be possible."

Prabhupāda: No, it is possible. It is possible. If one has practiced yoga system, He can become light. To walk over the water means to become very light, like cotton swab. Then he can walk. He can fly also. In Siddha-lokas, the inhabitants there, they fly in the sky. From one planet to another planet they go by flying. There is Siddha-loka planet. Therefore they are called Siddha-loka, means they have all perfection of this yogic mystic power.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So if that, even parallel, then there is Brahmā. He is most advanced. Why do you say there was no human being? There was. Therefore their theory, "In such and such era the human life began," that is wrong if they accept parallel. They are existing always. And as we see. Now as we see, the trees are there, birds are there, animals are there, human beings are there, God is there, demigod is there. Everything is there. Where is the question of evolution? Simply we have to enter. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we have anything, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the reference, saying that all the living entities are already there?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that jīva-jātiṣu.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, and that implies?

Prabhupāda: Jīva-jāti, different grades of jīva. Jāti, you know jāti?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are different nations. They are already existing. So jāti means that. Jāti means born of a particular species. That is jāti. Jīva-jātiṣu. Ṣu, plural number. So many jīva-jātiṣu. He's simply Bhramadbhiḥ. Just like I am traveling, sometimes America, some Australia, sometimes... But they are already there. I am going sometimes in America, sometimes Australia, sometimes Africa, but they are already there. I am the man; I am traveling. Not that because I have to come to America, I create America. This is nonsense. And there are many countries I have not gone there. Does it mean that they are not existing? They have no even human reason, these rascal scientists. The common sense reason. And Bhagavad-gītā clearly says they are already existing. Wherever you like, you can go. You can go even up to the kingdom of God if you so desire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to know a little more about the... (end)

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: It's a character in Spanish history, fictional history. The perfect lover, the image that all men would like to be, the perfect lover.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So who can be perfect lover than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, He loves everyone. Where is that man, he loves everyone? The so-called patriot, they love their countrymen, but kill their animals. Why? Mr. Nixon loves his countrymen. Why not love his country cows? They are also born in the land. They require also. They have right to live, so why they are killed? That is imperfection. And Kṛṣṇa is embracing the calf, come on, and embracing Rādhārāṇī also. That is perfection. That is perfection. Kṛṣṇa talks with birds. These are there. One day on the bank of Yamunā He was talking with a bird. One old lady saw and said, "Oh, He's talking with a bird?" That is perfection.

Paramahaṁsa: He sounded like this? He talked like that, like the birds talk?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another quality is bahubhāṣājñaḥ, He can speak in any language.

Umāpati: Birds have language? Animals have their language?

Prabhupāda: Oh yeah everyone has language. Everyone.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Uncontrollable tongue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now what is that bird who is killed in Christmas?

Devotees: Turkey.

Prabhupāda: Turkey, you see. Now, Christmas, God's Christmas, Jesus Christ. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." But his birthday is observed by killing, killing, killing, killing, killing.

Paramahaṁsa: And ham. Ham is also cow, isn't it?

Karandhara: Pig.

Paramahaṁsa: Pig. Pig and turkey they have.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: Actually, they kill the turkey on Thanksgiving, which is the day that they acknowledge and give thanks to the Lord.

Umāpati: For this great country.

Prabhupāda: For giving them opportunity to kill? And where is the opportunity? The Lord said, "Thou shalt not kill." Where do they get the opportunity of killing? That is another blaspheme. Where do they get this opportunity? They manufacture.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You see. All utopian. One platform... It is called ākāśa-puṣpa, ākāśa-puṣpa, to get flower from the sky. It is called ākāśa-puṣpa. This kind of plan is called ākāśa-puṣpa. Ākāśa-puṣpa. Or the bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa, the testicle of the bull and the duck, he is expecting, "Here is a fish. It will drop, and I will take it." He is following. Have you seen? In India we have seen many. The bull is going on, on the..., and the baka is going on. And whole day and night, he is after that. "It is a fish, big fish. It will drop and I shall take." Bakāṇḍa-nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is also a bird, Śrīla Prabhupāda; it is called heron.

Prabhupāda: Heron? I do not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. They have long beaks. They also, they are always with the cows.

Prabhupāda: That is baka. We call baka.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are all the time... They stay mostly in wet lands.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bakāṇḍa-nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists, when we say that "The attempts that you are doing are no good." Then they want to make sure that what I am saying is right.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because I see that you are rascal, therefore I am right. You are rascal. You don't admit, but I see that you are rascal. You don't admit, but I see that you are a rascal. Therefore I am right. This is the argument. You are so rascal that you cannot admit your rascaldom. Just like this moon planet expedition. But I, sixteen years before, I told that these are rascals. Therefore I am right.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: The mukti (Bengali conversation continues with Sanskrit verses praising Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī) ...garden like this, surrounding. Like I see so many fruit trees.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ah, yes. Do it gradually. And the more beautiful, they will do it in their time.

Prabhupāda: Eh? This is very beautiful species.

Śrutakīrti: Yes, big birds and...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Engineer was saying that if we have a big tree around the building, then it blocks the view of the building. We will make such beautiful building and no one will see it through the trees.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: If we cover with gardens, big, big trees, then the beautiful building will be covered. So therefore he wants to keep it barren. (laughter)

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Wynne: And a pure one. Not, not spoiled. Anyway, that's what I tell myself. (laughs) What I mean is, if one makes a bird, if it has the feeling that because Kṛṣṇa breathed life into it and made it, and if one can reproduce this and get the spirit of it, that's praising...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also indirect praising. But you can praise Him directly.

Śyāmasundara: I think part of the trouble with our modern age is that no one has any information about God.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is God.

Śyāmasundara: They can't praise Him directly because they don't know what He looks like or what He does. (Prabhupāda is still eating.)

Prabhupāda: What is this, behind the halavā?

Śrutakīrti: Behind it?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Something is coming out, white?

Śrutakīrti: Oh, they probably put cream in it.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: That's all right?

David Wynne: Very good. Thank you. Lovely.

Prabhupāda: So how do you like our philosophy?

David Wynne: How do I like...?

Prabhupāda: Our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation continues for some sentences.) Who is practicing this? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). He cannot be called a brāhmaṇa unless he acts according to his guṇa. If he's acting in differently, he should be... (break) ...utilized by the liberated person, still we can use it, provided we stop this process of animal killing. Then it will be very easier. This medicine... The doors will be... Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Therefore whoever comes to us to become our student, our first proposition is that "You should give up these four principles, illicit sex, animal-eating, gambling and intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee, cigarette." This is our condition. So the more you practice to these four prohibitive regulations, then you realize. Śrotramāno 'bhirāmāt. It will be very pleasing to the ear and to the mind. And unless anything is very pleasing, you cannot continue. Artificially, you can chant for few minutes. But if it becomes pleasing to you, then you can chant twenty-four hours, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
(CC Adi 17.31)

So this is the only remedy, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you'll find all our students, they have got these beads. We have got these beads. Either we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or we shall talk of Kṛṣṇa. That is also chanting. When you talk of Kṛṣṇa, that is also chanting. Kīrtana, kīrtana means kīrtayati, talking, speaking. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Parīkṣit Mahārāja: śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣit. The item is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). About Viṣṇu, to hear and chant. So simply by hearing about Viṣṇu, Parīkṣit Mahārāja became liberated. Śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣid abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyāsaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he became perfect kīrtane, by kīrtana. But he... He was... He did not chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, but he recited Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So that is also kīrtana. Talking of Kṛṣṇa, that is also kīrtana. Kīrtana does not always mean that you have to chan... You have to engage yourself always in glorifying the Lord. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. He was a busy emperor of the world, but he engaged himself... Sa vai puṁsām... kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). He fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. This is first. If you fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then: sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane and he was talking only describing and glorifying Vaikuṇṭha. God's another name is Vaikuṇṭha. In Madras they say Veṅkateśvara. Vaikuṇṭha. Kuṇṭha means anxiety. So God has no anxiety, and God's devotees have no anxiety. Therefore they are vaikuṇṭha. Here in the material world everyone has got anxiety. Therefore it is kuṇṭha, the world of kuṇṭha, anxieties. Everyone. Birds, beasts, human beings. There must be kuṇṭha. So God is Vaikuṇṭha. The vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. This is also chanting, kīrtana, to describe about Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭhaloka, Vaikuṇṭha person, Vaikuṇṭha devotees. So this is the remedy of bhavauṣadhi. Bhava. Bhava means to take birth. Bhava. This is called bhava-saṁsāra, this material world. Here bhava, you take birth, you live for some time, again you die, again take birth. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (8): "Best of the asuras."

Prabhupāda: Yes, "best of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means the best. And asura... Because his father was demon. So he was calling his father "demon number one." "My dear father, my dear asura-varya..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. "Anyone who has accepted this material body..." Dehinām, he has said. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. "They are all full of anxiety." Anyone. Not only human beings, even animals, birds, beasts. You'll see, when a bird is there, he'll always, that, "Some enemy may not come." Even animals. Even tiger is afraid, although he's so powerful. Elephant is afraid. sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why? Asad-grahāt. "Because they have accepted this material body." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). "They should not be satisfied with the society, family and love and this and that. They should take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. Then they'll be happy."

Room Conversation with Guest -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambha...ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He's the original seed-giving father of all living entities, in any form. So not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts. Kṛṣṇa is the original father. Jīvera... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). And Kṛṣṇa also: mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7).

Guest: Jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7).

Prabhupāda: So why other jīvas should be left aside? Why they should not understand Kṛṣṇa. And actually, they are understanding Kṛṣṇa better than many Indians. They have taken very seriously. They do not put any competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Our Hindus, they put forward so many competitors of Kṛṣṇa: "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be God? I have got my own God." Especially after the preaching of this Vivekananda, that "You can create your own God," it has become very simple business to create one God.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating. Still they do so. Do they depend on agricultural education? Real education is how to solve the problems of life, birth, death, old age, and how to go back to home, back to... That is education. This is not education. This is simply waste of time. Because you cannot change your destiny. Now, take for example, there are so many agricultural improvements. Does it mean that there is no person who is needy? There are so many needy persons. But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there. Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving. Then where is the advancement of education? You produce more by advanced agricultural process and then throw it into the ocean. Real purpose was to produce more to see that nobody's hungry. That is not being done. There is no sympathy. This is not civilization.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So these devotees, they have not been separately instructed about hospitality. But because they are devotees of the Lord, this hospitality automatically they learn. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one becomes perfectly a devotee of the Lord, all the good qualities of demigods manifest automatically. The hospitality is also a good quality. So out of many good qualities, this is one of them. So these devotees, they are automatically well-behaving to the guests, newcomers on account of their advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because a Kṛṣṇa conscious person takes everyone, not only human being, but even animals, insects, trees, birds, beasts, everyone, living entities, as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So it is their duty to behave well with all living entities. Not only the human beings, but also even with the animals. Ahiṁsā. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). The ahiṁsā preached by Lord Buddha, that is also one of the qualifications of devotee. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we are preaching... Every religion preaches, but people do not follow. The Christian religion also preaches ahiṁsā: "Thou shall not kill," but they do not follow.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes we find that peaceful living is visible even in animal society. Just like the cows. They're very peaceful. There are other animals, dogs and others. They fight. But hundreds and thousands of cows, they live very peacefully. Birds also... Just like the swans, they live very peacefully. So is that the highest goal of life, to live peacefully? Because that is also found in animal society. Is that the perfection of life?

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, a man has to ask himself a simple and straightforward question. What really does he want to put his life to? Does he want suffering or peace?

Prabhupāda: No, suffering, of course, nobody wants. That's a fact.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's it, that's it...

Prabhupāda: But in this material world, even if you become peaceful, does it mean that you are out of suffering? I don't think.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. Well, I've been asking in all these universities, high schools, and all those, all those audiences, "What is the purpose of this so-called modern education? What is the purpose? If so, kindly define this purpose. Have people thought on this?" I just gave a broadcast at Southampton day before yesterday. Nobody, not many people appear to have seriously considered this question. Is it to fly to the moon? Is it to be a food taster or a noise lover? Or is it to build dreams and castles in the air? Or to soak one's self in the whirlpools of kāma, sensuality? What is this meant for? What is our education for? No one appeared... Very, very few people have appeared to ...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Paramahaṁsa: Well, for example, even in animal society, there is more animals, there's more insects, there's more birds than human society. But there's no question... They have no starvation. They have no nuclear warfare. Because they live as they're, as Kṛṣṇa has meant them to be, as their karma dictates. But in our situation we are meant to understand Kṛṣṇa. This, the goal of human life, is to use our developed consciousness to serve God. But unfortunately, since we misuse this for selfish motives, therefore we have descended lower than animals. Therefore we have not even the simple harmony that animal life has. Therefore we have mass warfare. Therefore we have greed, economic distress and pollution. All these things are caused simply because we have not used our human life for understanding Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: I think what you are saying, in a sense, is that generally the people are innocent. They grow up... And the goals of life are forced upon them, sort of, and actually that is not, the real goal is still missing.

Malcolm: They would say, yes, that there is... The number is too many.

Śyāmasundara: The number of goals?

Malcolm: No, the number of people to support a system of return.

Śyāmasundara: Return to the real goal.

Malcolm: To the real goal. They feel oppressed into supporting the number system because it's...

Śyāmasundara: Due to a larger number of people, is it possible to return all these people to the real goal?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As there is medicine for certain disease, if, in that particular disease, the prescribed medicine is given, then the disease will be cured. Is it not? Medical science, they have discovered medicine for a certain type of disease. So if the diseased man takes that medicine, particular, then he'll be cured. Similarly, if people take what is the actual goal of life by philosophy and logic, then their goal of life will be one. He must agree to take it just like the diseased man must agree to take the medicine. Then he's cured.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I think the only thing I'd say is this, that whilst the body that you have and I have is different from the body, the material body, when we were a child, it has been a continuous transformation. It hasn't been the ending of one body and the beginning of another. And in the process of change, a, an existence is carried on. It isn't like death, which means that at that point your personality becomes separated from your physical body suddenly, like that. It is different.

Prabhupāda: No. We become separated from the physical body, but we remain in the astral body, or subtle body, mind, intelligence... mind, intelligence and ego. That mind, material mind, material intelligence, you give up when you actually remain in your spiritual body. So this is also a great science. But unfortunately, there is no discussion on this point in any university of the world. But this is a science. So actual human civilization means they should study, they should inquire about this science and be well conversant. And that is the human... Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that human beings should be interested to this science first. Because animals cannot inquire about this science. The animals, they are simply interested how to eat. So similarly, if a man also simply interested in economic development which means how to eat, how to sleep... That is also there in the animal kingdom. They are trying in their own way. But they have no problem. We have created problem. In the morning, we are thinking, "How to get such and such thing?" But a bird, beast, he has no such anxiety. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that you cannot get more or less. That is already destined. So don't spoil your time in getting more. Because... The example is given that nobody wants unhappiness, or some disaster. But the disaster comes, unhappiness comes. We have experience in our life. Nobody tries for that: "Let disaster come upon me. Let there be fire in my house." No. But the fire takes place. So similarly, because you are destined to some unhappiness and happiness, that will come, either happiness or unhappiness. You don't bother for that. There is already program, according to the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). You save your time. You simply try how to get out of this dangerous position of repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be your endeavor.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You say. They say, all rascals say. But actually this is independence, but because they're animals, they are directed by nature, more or less. Just like they do not... My point is they do not misuse independence as much as a human being does. You see. Just like a tiger. He is to eat animals, killing animals. He does not come to your orchard to steal your fruits. But you, rascal human being, you eat fruits and animals both. Animal, that is instinct. Animal... Suppose if you put—I've given this example many times—a bag of rice on the street. Many birds will come. But he will eat some grains, five grains, ten grains and twenty grains, as much he can eat, and go away. But you do the same favor to the human beings, there will be fight. Everyone will try to take some more quantity in the house and stock it. Therefore, the human being is more responsible for sinful activities.

Guru-gaurāṅga: So the rascal thinks that independence, the manifestation, the symptom of independence is to misuse independence.

Prabhupāda: What?

Guru-gaurāṅga: He thinks the symptom... I am independent. I will show you I am independent. I will misuse my independence.

Prabhupāda: No. There's... Just like you are a citizen of French government. You are also independent. If the government says that if you do this, then you'll be punished. So when you do that, that is misuse of independence. Otherwise you are independent.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Graham Hill: (indistinct) what sort of body we have been in in the past?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the past. You forgot, but in the past you had life. Just like in the past I was young man. That's a fact. Similarly, but that young body is no more existing. Similarly, I had a past life but I have forgotten. That is the... Forgetfulness is our nature. Death means forgetting what was your first, past life. That is by nature you become forgetful because if you remember our past life and compare with this life... Suppose one was very rich man and if he becomes a poor, a cat and dog, then if he remembers, then it is very unbearable for him. Therefore nature helps him to forget. Forget. Otherwise he cannot do it. But the real problem is that we are eternal soul, we are changing our body one after another, birth and death. Apart from worldly happiness and distress, this birth and death, that is not very good process. At death time we have to suffer so much that we give up this body. And then again we enter into the womb of a mother. That is not very good situation. Then when come out there are so many tribulations, disease, then again old age. So people do not understand that he is passing... Especially when we are in other than human life. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics, then birds, trees, plants, insects, then beasts. In this way we come to human form of life. This is evolution. So in this human form of life there is chance of understanding the problems of life. In other forms of life it is not possible.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, the greater power is Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Kṛṣṇa and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pape... (BG 18.66). "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom. That is explained in the previous verse. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo, jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). Read that, previous to this verse.

Śrutakīrti: (reads verse, SB 1.5.10)

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Śrutakīrti: (reads translation)

Prabhupāda: It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these crows' place, newspaper, we'll not... We don't read newspaper. We don't touch it unless there is some news of ours. We don't touch it. What is the use of wasting time? They read so big, big bundle of newspaper. But we don't touch them. Oh, we have got (indistinct) literature here. Why should we waste our time in the crows' manifestation? The same politics, same Nixon, same Dixon, same Hitler. It is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Things which have already been chewed and thrown away, another person is crying, "Let me see if there's any juice." But you have already chewed. What juice you find there? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, same politics, same new leader, same he's a rascal. Just like Nixon advertises in news, "America now requires Nixon." So America accepted him and now America doesn't want him. Again another Nixon will come. This is going on, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, chewing the chewed. The people are not disgusted but we have tasted all these rascals.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve." Just like in hospital. A patient is ordered by the physician: "You should not eat anything." So he knows, "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee, when he's starving, he knows, "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this starving condition. It is good for me." He never complains.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then fool's paradise it is called... It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. That is the only conclusion.

Karandhara: That's what they say about us.

Prabhupāda: Because this world is all full of fools, so it is very difficult to push on. That we know. Therefore we should not go to the mūḍhas.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Birds of a feather flock together.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: So they can go to Darwin's planet, we'll go to Kṛṣṇa's planet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Devotee: But how will we defeat them?

Prabhupāda: Yānti bhūtejyā bhūtāni.

Yaśomatīnandana: By giving them prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Yaśomatīnandana: We'll defeat them by giving them prasādam, right, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: To cure their disease, you have to give them prasādam, and give them chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is valuable. Just like a man suffering from jaundice, he sees everything yellow, and if you say, "No, it is not yellow. White" "No, I see yellow." What can be done, then the medicine has to be given. He'll never say it is white. He'll say it is yellow, because he is suffering. You have to cure. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness method is curing the disease of jaundice.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: This is the only knowledge. Everybody else is distributing ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes questions are raised saying that how do we know that a bird is more intelligent than a human being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bird is more intelligent.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are posing that...

Prabhupāda: Just like, just like, here is a bird, as soon as he see so many men are coming, he'll jump over you. You are not intelligent to jump over. Suppose someone is coming to stab you; you cannot jump. Therefore bird is more intelligent.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How do we know that they're not (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Ah? No, they'll know enemy is coming, even if he says, animals they know. As soon as there is enemy, they take protection.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That ignorance is there, but the hook... Not only out of ignorance, out of greediness. That if you become more greedy, he knows that there is sufficient food in the sea, but the rascal is greedy, he's taking another... Due to his rascaldom, he's dying. Greediness. So similarly, all arrangement is there, God-made. Even for human beings. But because they're rascals, they're greedy. They're greedy. Although their greediness cannot satisfy them, everyone is greedy because the law of nature is equal to everyone. If law of nature can supply food to the birds and beast and everyone, why not to the human beings? What human being has done? But they're rascal, greedy, therefore suffering. More, wants more. There is already food grains, milk, flowers, fruits, immense supply, but he'll cut the throat of another animal. Greedy. And they're suffering, committing sinful activities.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're getting information that only in the human form...

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom information? Another rascal? What is that information? If you get information from another rascal, what you'll get benefit? The source of information must be perfect. Then you get information, it is all right. If you are a rascal and if you get information from another rascal, then what is the benefit?

Karandhara: They'd say there is no perfect source.

Prabhupāda: Because you are not... You're cheater, you're cheater, you are cheated, therefore that is your version.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That human form of life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is the most important species.

Prabhupāda: Developed consciousness, developed consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But somebody asks, "How do I know a bird is not more highly advanced than a human being?"

Prabhupāda: How you can ask?

Devotee (2): By example.

Prabhupāda: That is... Human being has created the city. The bird cannot.

Devotee (2): Birds also create cities.

Prabhupāda: No, their cities, their own way, not like this. Human being has constructed the skyscraper building. A bird cannot. In that sense you are advanced. That sense you are advanced.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they say this is just our own mental concoction.

Prabhupāda: They can repair their nest with some stick, and that's all. That much they can do. But you can big, big beams, you can... That is the difference.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Because even the most powerful birds we can control.

Prabhupāda: But, but there is no benefit. You are misusing your intelligence by skyscraper building, and they're using their intelligence to make a nest; but the benefit derived is equal. Therefore, in that sense you are less intelligence.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In other words, they never violate the laws of nature, but other..., we are backward, because we tried to fight against the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our disease.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they are more advanced.

Devotee (2): Practically you said that.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee (2): That the birds are living naturally.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, naturally. No... They have no discrimination. They have to abide by the laws of nature. But you have got discrimination; therefore you are punished.

Devotee (2): So we will attract the scientists by saying that we are both fools?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee (2): Before we were saying that we were both fools. Is that the way to attract the scientists?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That was argument. We are not fools; the scientist is fool. (devotees laugh) We are educated.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so it is so, "Birds of a feather flock together." The cheaters flock together.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Birds of the same feather flock together."

Karandhara: The thing is that our philosophy is as supportable as theirs, but because they are in control they have the dominance.

Prabhupāda: Who has dominance?

Karandhara: The atheists.

Prabhupāda: Atheists? (laughs) One kick of māyā, he's finished. (laughter) All dominance. One this kick his dominance all finished, in one second. (laughter) No dominance. That is māyā. They are under control, but thinking that "We are free." That is called māyā, that is called māyā. They are under full control but they are thinking, "We are free." That is māyā. Mohinī, mohinīṁ śritāḥ. What is that verse? Āsurīṁ mohinīm?

Hṛdayānanda: Rākṣasīm. Moghāśā mogha,

Prabhupāda: Prakṛtiṁ mohinīm. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). Because they are bewildered, all their hopes will be frustrated. Moghāśāḥ. Because they are rascals, āsurīm, atheists, all their hopes will be frustrated. This is stated. And that is being done. They are making so big, big plan; now it is going to be frustrated. Just see.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.

Hṛdayānanda: That wouldn't be very good for a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But they have no sense. These birds are feedies(?) or their bodily extension is so much. I think they're feedies(?).

Hṛdayānanda: They're what.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Just see how they are experienced. They're not afraid of the ocean, although they are very small. They know how to save him. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is there within the heart. They are giving, "Now get off." They immediately get off.

Hṛdayānanda: Boy. That's Viṣṇu within their heart?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...nice, very broad and clean. (break) ...can overflood the whole area, but no. "Up to this, no more, sir." Under whose order they are working? There must be some control.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Must be varieties. If in this inferior nature there are so many varieties, so how many superior varieties are there. That you can simply think of. That is acintya. Even in this material world, there are different planets. One planet is superior than the other planet. The inhabitants of one planet are far, far superior than other planets. Just like there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. Here, in this planet, people practice mystic yoga for getting so much wonderful power. They are naturally... Here also we see. Just like if I want to fly I cannot. But another small bird, he'll fly. Is it not? I... If I have to live within the water, I have to make so much arrangement. But a small fish is in the big ocean; he's living there. Yes. So... But because one bird is flying in the sky without any machine, it does not mean that he has become superior to me. But comparatively I see it has got superior power. So these varieties are there. You cannot deny it. So similarly, as in this planet we are trying to get some mystic power by yoga practice, there, in other planets, it is automatically there. They do not require any machine from going one planet to another. They can simply, by will, they can go. Even in this yog... in these material planets, this planet also, there are yogis. They take early in the morning bath in four places, at Jagannātha Purī, at Rāmeśvaram and what is called, Haridvar?

Devotee: Benares.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: No, but as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there will more of a desire to live simply.

Prabhupāda: That is good for them. That is good for them. Because at the present moment they are missing the aim of life. That is the defect. They do not know what is the goal of life. They are thinking, "We are also cats and dogs." And that is the defect of the modern civilization. Our human life is to achieve the highest perfection. Otherwise this āhāra-nidra-bhaya... Even the small birds they know. Just see how they are protecting themselves. They are also afraid of danger, and they are doing their own way. So if we simply discover atomic weapons for defense, that is not final advancement of civilization. Final civilization is how to save yourself from death. That is civilization. And there is no such program. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). The highest perfection is how to save oneself from these four miserable conditions: birth, death, old age and disease. They do not know. Nobody knows. Here is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he can solve these problems. That is real defense. (pause) So defense automatically, the small birds are taking. See. They are so alert that the water cannot overcome them. Immediately, they flee, by nature. This boy, his leg became full of water, but they are not. (laughter) They are so careful. Just see. By nature they are defending. Just see. Such a big wave is coming for him, "Yes, fly away," immediately.

Page Title:Bird (Conversations 1967 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:20 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=78, Let=0
No. of Quotes:78