Expressions researched:
"Bharata"
|"Bharatas"
Prabhupāda: Well, when there is war, that thing happens everywhere. But the persons who create war, they are responsible for it. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya. First of all we have to understand.
So Kṛṣṇa says, paritrāṇāya sādhunam vināśāya ca duskrtam, yuge yuge sambhavāmi.
Prabhupāda: You try to understand. Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, He says:
Duṣkṛtānam, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Now, Kṛṣṇa came to establish the religious principles, and in the last stage of speaking He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māmekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: As long as the material body exists, one has to meet the demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But a person who is in pure bhakti-yoga or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not arouse the senses while meeting the demands of the body. Rather, he accepts the bare necessities of life, making the best use of a bad bargain, and enjoys transcendental happiness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is callous toward incidental occurrences—such as accidents, disease, scarcity and even the death of a most dear relative—but he is always alert to execute his duties in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or bhakti-yoga. Accidents never deviate him from his duty. As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. He endures all such incidental occurences because he knows that they come and go and do not affect his duties. In this way he achieves the highest perfection in yoga practice.
Prabhupāda: We cannot understand even the Personality of Godhead, what to speak of other things? "God is a person:"—it is a very difficult subject matter for ordinary man to take it, very difficult subject. That is stated in the... Even the demigods they cannot understand. That is... Because he's thinking materially that "This cosmic manifestation, then creation, is so big, and it is created by a person. How it is possible?" But... Because they do not know what is that person. Simply by the word "person," he is afraid: "Oh, oh, oh, oh."
Revatīnandana: "He's like me. I can't do it. Therefore not a person."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: "No person except He's like me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the Vedic scripture says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His person is different. Sac-cid-ānanda. That is not exactly with our personality. This is material. This is temporary personality. Now I am man. Next time I may become dog, Next time become demigod. It is changing. It is not eternal, sat. So God is not like that. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He does not come here being forced by the material energy. He comes by His spiritual energy. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. Find out this. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Therefore, as soon as He's accepted as ordinary man, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). He does not know what is the power behind that.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. You would apply the teachings of the Gītā to all human societies at all times. Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes, that is my ambition, that let the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā be practically accepted by the human society, and surely they'll be happy. Surely. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glanīr bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (2): Coming back to your first question when you asked that what do you think about this present world or the present trend of present civilization...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know. Even big, big professors. I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, after annihilation of this body, there is nothing."
Guest (2): Well, that has brought this disaster and is causing more and more trouble, I think. More and more in practice of medicine, if we look into the practice of medicine, I think, we are more pressed with the problem of mental illness. I should say in the region of thirty percent of our time is devoted for people suffering from mental anxiety, which we call "anxiety state" and partly depression. I think most of the time, I surmise... Part of the problem is not that they are not well-fed, it is not that they are not well-dressed. Part of the problem is to accept as they are and to think of something which is present, I mean they could believe that there is something beyond this world, and if they can accept that, probably they will be better off and they will accept their present inconveniences more easily and will not be depressed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): And that is the present problem.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
If one is engaged in his cultivation of spiritual life, then he should tolerate all these bodily pains and pleasure. Because they come and go.
Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve." Just like in hospital. A patient is ordered by the physician: "You should not eat anything." So he knows, "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee, when he's starving, he knows, "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this starving condition. It is good for me." He never complains.
Anyone lives in that way, that "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this distressed condition of life. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I would have been put into more severe condition of life, but He is a little, giving me little pain. So I must be very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa that He's so kind upon me." So if one lives like that, mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk, he has got the claim to become liberated. Just like a son has got the right to claim the property of father, similarly, one who lives like this, he has the claim to become liberated. Mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk. That is... This is Bhāgavata's statement. And similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā, also it is stated... Sit down. Yes. Why you are late? We have talked so many things.
Woman: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. That I have already explained.
Just like one is in winter season, and the winter... Not in this country. In Western countries, it becomes below thirty degrees.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So īśvara... That, this, this, I was discussing the other day. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. Īśvara. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi sann avyayātmā. So Kṛṣṇa is always īśvara. We are īśvara in the family or in the office or in my society. But we are not that type of īśvara, that I can live within the heart of everyone. Therefore there is distinction between this īśvara and we īśvara. The Māyāvādīs, they do not understand this. He claims that "I am the same īśvara." But do you remain in everyone's heart? Can you study, can you study what I am thinking now? But still, they will say, "I am the same." This is Māyāvādī philosophy's defect.
Chandobhai: Difference.
Prabhupāda: No, this is defect. They do not understand their incapability, and still, they claim, "I am the same, one, So 'ham." This is their deficiency. Here is the de... īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Do you stay... Can you stay, can you say what I am thinking now? Then why you are claiming that īśvara? You are a rascal. Why you are claiming. Namaskāra. And īśvara, īśvara means he knows... That is also described in Bhagavad-gītā... What is that? Kṣetrajña, kṣetrajña.
Chandobhai: Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Kṣetra-kṣetrajña-jñānam. Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetrajña means one who knows. Kṣetrajña. Now, you know the pains and pleasure of your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body.
Chandobhai: And the Lord knows the pains and pleasures of everybody.
Prabhupāda: Therefore He says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That is the difference. But the Māyāvādī will not accept this.
Prabhupāda: Now, let us finish. So this should be clearly understood, that in this body the both the Paramātmā and jīvātmā living.
Dr. Patel: Stay together, live together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the Māyāvādīs, they says there is no jīvātmā. The same thing, Paramātmā. That is not.
Dr. Patel: Those two birds are living on the same tree.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference. That is the difference. Paramātmā and jīvātmā, what is the difference? Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I... This is very practical, that I am the jīvātmā. I am living in this body. I know the business of my body, pains and pleasures, but I do not know what is the pains and pleasures of your body.
Prabhupāda: ...identification is all right, but you must come to the practical point. Then don't treat any patient. You can say, "Who is suffering?"
Dr. Patel: "Body."
Prabhupāda: "Who is suffering...?"
Dr. Patel: We are treating the body.
Prabhupāda: "There is no need of taking medicine."
Dr. Patel: I am treating the body. I am not in... You are treating the...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That body is there, and you are absorbed in body. Therefore there is suffering. You may say that "I am not this body, and I am not this body," but when the body's going to be killed, you become afraid. Because you are absorbed. Why go beyond this practical point?
Dr. Patel: Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: Just like everyone knows that you are not the motor car. Everyone knows it. But as soon as there is any breakage in the nice motor car, "Oh, I am gone." Why, where you gone? You are not motor car. But because you are absorbed in the sense that "It is my car, my car, my car," you have become absorbed. So any accident to the motor car, you become unhappy. But everyone knows you are not motor car. Why you become unhappy? This is called māyā. So you are not completely free. So so long we are in this body, so the sufferings of the body is there. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. "Just tolerate." Just tolerate.
You don't be mad, but, because "My motor car is now broken." Or, "There is some accident in my house." But you are not house, neither you are motor car. Everyone knows that. But why you have become so much affected? There, therefore tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. You have to tolerate.
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jña, yes. Kṣetra is also there; kṣetra-jña is also there.
Dr. Patel: Kṣetra is the tree and kṣetra-jña is...
Prabhupāda: This body's also. The kṣetra is there, kṣetra-jña is there. Similarly...
Dr. Patel: Samaṁ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...
Prabhupāda: Samaṁ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means the kṣetra-jña is there.
Dr. Patel: Tiṣṭhantaṁ parameśvaram...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Vinaśyatsv avinaśyantaṁ...
Prabhupāda: There is also Paramātmā. It does not mean because he's dog, there is no Paramātmā. There is also Paramātmā. Because Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa does not discriminate that "I shall not remain within the body of dog. I shall remain within the body of a brāhmaṇa only." No. Sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. This is samatā, that... Because a devotee can understand that Kṛṣṇa is there within the dog, within the cat... Simi...,
Prabhupāda: The sun-god is there in the sun planet, and if you have got strength, you can go there and see. But you cannot go, although it is material. So similarly, in the spiritual world there is the Supreme Spirit, Supreme Being, He is spiritual, concentrated, essence of light. That is ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). He is the origin of everything. And He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Find out this verse. Find out. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham.
Pradyumna:
"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself."
Prabhupāda: Of course, you cannot challenge Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa, if He likes, He can reveal Himself to you. Therefore, you can know God. Just like Kṛṣṇa reveals. He comes and He... (aside:) Don't... He reveals Himself. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). So when man forgets, so He comes, reveals Himself.
Bishop Kelly: Are you feeling the cold in Melbourne your grace?
Prabhupāda: This heating is there.
Bishop Kelly: Ah, yes. But when you go outside do you feel...?
Prabhupāda: I go outside.
Bishop Kelly: Yes, but when you go out do you feel it?
Prabhupāda: I feel... I cover sufficiently, that's all.
Bishop Kelly: Ah, yes. How long are you staying here for?
Prabhupāda: Up to second.
Bishop Kelly: This is your first visit to Australia?
Prabhupāda: No. This is the fourth time.
Bishop Kelly: Is it?
Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā about this feeling is stated,
Satsvarūpa: English?
Prabhupāda: No, you read the Sanskrit.
Satsvarūpa: (Reads Sanskrit) "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): How can we understand the difference between personality and individuality? And if God expands Himself in everything, then He must be inside all of His creation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the difference, that God is situated in everywhere, but you are not situated everywhere. You are situated within your body. I am situated within my body. The pains and pleasure of my body, you cannot feel; neither I can feel the pains and pleasure... But God is everywhere. Therefore He can understand what is your pains and pleasure, what is my pains and pleasure, his pains and pleasure. That is unlimited. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, Find out, what is that verse? Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Kṣetra-jñam cāpi māṁ viddhi.
Hṛdayānanda:
(reads translation in Spanish)
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may argue that the knowledge which you say you have, it doesn't stop all of these things from happening to you. You're also suffering from symptoms of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. But I'm trying because I have got this material body like you, so I have to suffer like you. But I'm making treatment. You are not making treatment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the effects appear to be the same on everyone.
Prabhupāda: No. We are not so much after doctors or medical...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your students also suffer from diseases and all...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So long the body's there, one has to suffer. That we tolerate. That is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā,
Titikṣa, we know how to tolerate. We are not mad after curing. We know these things will happen so long I have got this body.
Prabhupāda: Dhīra means one who is not disturbed by this bodily concept of life. He is dhīra because he knows that "I am not this body," even there is some trouble in respect of body. So Kṛṣṇa advised that titikṣasva bhārata.
Prabhupāda: But who will live? Everyone will die.
Dr. Patel: Everyone will die, that's right. These people, they behave as if they are living permanently. Then they are doing a bad thing, they think that they are...
Prabhupāda: So we have to tolerate. There is no other way.
Dr. Patel: That we are doing.
Prabhupāda: Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. They come and go. You have to do your business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These people will come and go. Place everything at the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.
Hariśauri: Kṛṣṇa knows more about what's going on than we do.
Prabhupāda: Anumantā upadṛṣṭā. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). How these rascals think that "I can deceive God"?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it actually Kṛṣṇa who's maintaining the life in the body then? The life of the body is maintained by Kṛṣṇa or by the individual jīva?
Prabhupāda: No, by Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property. You are thinking, "It is mine." Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I am the proprietor of this body, but another body is there. He is the proprietor of all the bodies. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. The landlord, he's the proprietor. You are occupier, that's all.
Gopavṛndapāla: To take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the real survival of the fittest.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa saying, coming, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Real dharma is to remain subordinate to Kṛṣṇa as servant. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). So we have forgotten it. This is dharmasya glāniḥ. Dharma means characteristics. It is not a faith; it is a fact. So our characteristic is that we are eternal servant of God. When we forget this characteristic, that this is my original characteristic, that is adharma. That is dharmasya glāniḥ. So yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). When there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging dharma, my occupational duty, then there is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So one has to take it, then he's fortunate.
Prabhupāda: The Lord is known as kṛpaṇa-vatsala because He is extremely kind to the conditioned souls. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, the Lord appears when there are discrepancies in the execution of religious principles (yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata... tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7)). The Lord is extremely anxious to deliver the conditioned souls, and therefore He instructs all of us to return home, back to Godhead (sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)).
Mādhavānanda: You once asked that same question to Kenneth Keating in Delhi. You said, "You say that this is America, but who owns America?" He could not answer.
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). The best thing is to follow the formula given by Kṛṣṇa: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
George Gullen: My father used to speak of the Oversoul that I think had some similarity to these words that we just read, that the soul that is...
Prabhupāda: We call Supersoul, that is God. The idea is in Christianity also, "Holy Ghost" like that. Supersoul and the ordinary soul. We living entities, we are ordinary souls, and God in His all-pervading feature, He is Supersoul. Find out this verse: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.
Hari-śauri:
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama. English?
Hari-śauri: "O scion of Bharata, you should understand that I am also the knower in all bodies, and to understand this body and its owner is called knowledge. That is My opinion."
Prabhupāda: We are in one place, but we are not all-pervading. In another verse it is explained, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor (BG 13.3). Kṣetra kṣetrajñaḥ. The living entity is kṣetrajñāḥ, one who knows about his body. The body is called kṣetra, field, field of activities. I am working with this body. The cat is working with his body, dog is working with his body, mosquito is working with his body. The body is the field of activity, and the soul within the body is the owner of the body, or occupier of the body, not owner. So God is also with him. Therefore He says kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. God is present along with the living entity, I or you, in everything.
Prabhupāda:
Kṛṣṇa has spoken about the kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña means the knower of the body, as He has already explained, that "I know that this is my finger." I never say, "I finger." So this body is kṣetrajña, the field of activities, and the soul is the proprietor or worker within the body. That is called kṣetrajña. This is already explained. He tried to explain... Because there are many ladies, so he tried to explain in Hindi. So here in the next verse Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "I am also kṣetrajña. I am also one of the knower of the body." So what is the difference between the one kṣetrajña already explained, the soul, and this kṣetrajña, Kṛṣṇa? What is the difference between the two? That is explained here. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also kṣetrajña."Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "But the distinction is that the individual soul is situated in that particular body, but I am situated in every body, all-pervading."
Prabhupāda: So my request is, all the Indians who are here in this foreign country, keep your own original culture. Don't forget. Don't be bewildered. Be in your position. Try to under... It is very easy. Bhagavad-gītā is not at all difficult to understand, and we have tried to explain as easy as possible, not that we have deviated from the original verse, just like others do it. We do not do that; there is no need. That is another blunder. We keep Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we still try to explain it. So I am very glad that you are all coming regularly, but take it. At least one day, this Sunday, you devote, seriously studying Bhagavad-gītā, and discuss amongst you whenever there is any doubt. There cannot be any doubt. The Bhagavad-gītā verses are so plainly explained, and... Just like here is one verse. We are trying to read. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "My dear Arjuna..." Arjuna is addressed as Bhārata. Because he belongs to the dynasty of Bharata, sometimes he's addressed as Bhārata. So, very easy, that "I am also one of the souls. There are two souls. One, you are, and another, I am. So what is the difference between you and me?" That you know simply everything, not everything, but to some extent, about your body, but I know everything of everyone's body. That is the difference.
Atreya Ṛṣi: One of the questions Iranians ask a lot is that if He is giving us intelligence, why doesn't He give us enough intelligence so that we could be God conscious?
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's giving. Read the Bhagavad-gītā. But you rascals don't accept, what can be done? God is personally coming to give you intelligence, take this intelligence. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). "I come when there is no intelligence, when you are all rascals, I come to give you intelligence, but you don't take, what can I do?"
Prabhupāda: Nothing is a chance. Everything is under supreme control. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But he is a rascal. He simply defies and suffers. One man is being slapped with shoes, so he is shameless, he says, "Oh, you have beaten me with shoes. All right, if you touch my wife, I'll sue you." Then the wife is beaten with shoes, then he says, "Oh, you have beaten my wife. All right, touch my son, I will sue you." In this way every member is being beaten with shoes, and he is simply challenging that "I'll sue, I'll sue." This is going on. He's punished one after another, but still he is so shameless that still he defies the authority. That is called asura. They're not very intelligent. "Next time I will see. Wait millions of years, I shall see..." So we have to deal with asuras. This is the position.
Devotee: That's why it's so difficult.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: That's why it's so difficult.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: That is a devotee's business.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. That is devotee. Because God wants it that these rascals may be turned into sane man. That is God's plan. Otherwise why does He comes? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Huh? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8)—two class, sādhu and duṣkṛtinaḥ. So to punish these duṣkṛtinaḥ there is reformation.
Prabhupāda: But we are so... You can keep it there now. Keep. So you do not believe in these things, that there is Bhagavān and Bhagavān comes, He has got a mission. Do you believe in these things? Frankly speaking, do you believe in these things?
Minister: We do. We do believe.
Prabhupāda: Then you must act according to His mission. According to His mission. The mission is yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7).
Prabhupāda: So far, I am a living being, He's also a living being, but He's supreme living being. How? Because I breathe, some dust comes and goes out, and when He breathes some universes come out. This is the difference. So because He is breathing and I am breathing, therefore equal. No. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but not like us. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He's seeing every particular thing, anywhere. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu. I can see within my limit, or I can feel pains and pleasure within my... But He knows everything, everywhere. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. And because I cannot become like Him, therefore Māyāvādīs say kalpana, "This is imagination." He wants to make God like himself, and he wants to become like God.
Prabhupāda: Universal soul is spirit, and you are also spirit. That sense, you are one. But universal soul is different from you. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that there are two souls within the body. One soul is the individual soul, and the other soul is the Supersoul. That Supersoul is universal soul, and the individual soul, you are individual soul. As soul, the quality is the same, but you are individual soul, and Lord is universal soul. There, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated clearly, kṣetra-kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña is the soul; kṣetra is this body. So kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "I am also kṣetrajña, soul, but sarva-kṣetreṣu. You individual soul, you know the pleasure, pains, of your body, but you do not know what are the pleasure and pains of my body." Do you know?
Indian man (2): No, sir.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are individual. You know the pleasure and pains of your body. I know the pleasure and pains of my body. But there is another soul; that is Supersoul. Sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He knows your pleasure, pains. He knows my pleasure and pains. He knows everyone's pleasure and pains. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Therefore, as soul they are one in quality, but in consciousness they're different. He knows everyone's pleasure and pains; I know my pleasure and pain.
Prabhupāda: This body belongs to such and such country." And so on. This is one knowledge. So another soul is there. That is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. He says that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That is Supersoul.
Prabhupāda: Even if you are very highly elevated, can you say what I am thinking? Then how do you claim God? God is all-pervading. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). You have read Bhagavad-gītā. There are two kṣetras-jñas. One kṣetra-jña, just like I am, you are. They are kṣetra-jña. I know about my pains and pleasures of my body. You know. But I do not know what is pains and pleasure of your body. You do not know what is pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore there is difference. But God knows. That is the difference between you and God. How you claim God? You do not know what is the pains and pleasures of my body. You know the pains and pleasure of your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But either you or me, we do not know the pains and pleasures of all bodies. And Kṛṣṇa says kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He knows everyone's pains and pleasure. That is the difference between you and Him.
Prabhupāda: Unless we come to that point, to understand Kṛṣṇa, there is still scarcity of knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa says that "When there is scarcity of knowledge, then I appear." Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7).
Prabhupāda: We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mission actually. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "When people are misguided," tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "at that time I come down.
Prabhupāda: So because the body is not permanent, the disease also not permanent. So Kṛṣṇa's advice is tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). You make the solution—that is the greatest solution—that how to stop janma-mṛtyu. But that they do not know, that this can be stopped. They are simply busy with their temporary problems. And they are taking it as very great. What is great? Suppose if you have got a boil here. Simply by pinprick. (makes blowing sound) Will it cure? There must be surgical operation. Get out the pus. So this movement is for that purpose. It is not for this janma-mṛtyu, I mean, temporary jarā-vyādhi. That is all right, but Kṛṣṇa says—if we take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Bhagavad-gītā—that is not problem. If there is little trouble, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real problem is that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).
Prabhupāda: They can come at least weekend and learn. There are so many books.
Guest (2): We have our own... We have to find out.
Guest (4): We have to find our own ways to come here.
Prabhupāda: Guru is there. Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you find? Why you are blind? Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya (BG 4.8). He has come. Why don't you take Him? Why do you go to a cheater? Because you want to be cheated. Guru is there. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7), Arjuna said. Why don't you surrender to Kṛṣṇa? That means I don't want guru. I want somebody, my order supplier.
Prabhupāda: I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul. In this body there are two souls. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That he's also kṣetrajñā. Kṣetra is this body, and kṣetrajñā one knows, this body....
Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Lord Buddha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared and many others, and the people of India, they are becoming godless. Why? Do you follow what I say? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). And He does it in India within this universe. And they are become now... This is Kali-yuga. Other countries, they may, but India, so fortunate birth... Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya janma. They are becoming degraded so much so that they are doubting, asking questions.
Prabhupāda: I was continuing my disease up to there.
Gargamuni: And you had one house near?
Prabhupāda: Many houses. I was not sleeping at night, and there was some sound, "gongongongon," in my ear. So long the body will be there, there will be so many troubles. And Kṛṣṇa has advised that "They will come and go. Don't care for them. That's all." Āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata.
So bodily, mental, by enemies, so many impediments will come. What can be done? We have to tolerate. That is material world. We cannot expect smooth, very happy. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: A Vaiṣṇava will never protest. Tat te 'nukampām. And Kṛṣṇa said, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. He never said that "You become agitated." Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha (BG 2.14). "These things have come and gone, will go. Why you are bothered, your brain, about these things?"
Prabhupāda: The business is that I have got this human form of life. I must fully utilize it how to get out of these problems. That is life.
Indian: So that is the big problem, because people don't know how to get out of it.
Prabhupāda: No, they should know. Here we are teaching right. Why the rascals do not take advantage of us? They do not know. Therefore there is preaching. Why Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there? Because these rascals, they do not know. Na te viduḥ. We are teaching. Kṛṣṇa is coming. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). As soon as they forget, immediately Kṛṣṇa comes. He sends His representative to remind that "This is not your life. This is life." Now, if he does not take advantage of it, it is his fault. The knowledge is there. University is there. You can go, pass your M.A. examination. But if you go to the prison house and become a pickpocket, that is your fault.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the original God and Rāma is expansion. Not only Rāma-other incarnations. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many.
Ram Jethmalani: Rāmādi.
Prabhupāda: Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu.
Ram Jethmalani: Rāma comes later according to this.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no question of later or former. These are always existing. And They appear, disappear according to the necessity. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). The mūrtis are there, permanently, and They appear and disappear according to the necessity. Suppose in a case you require the reference to a law. It is not that the law has appeared for the purpose. The law was there already. You have to simply bring it for your business. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ (Bs. 5.39).
Prabhupāda: So Īśvara, this, the Supreme, is living with you as Supersoul. So there is no doubt about it. You are also within the body, and He is also within the body. Find out this verse, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata, kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam (BG 13.3). You are individual soul, and He is also living as individual soul, but sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: He is living everywhere; you are living within your body. That is the difference.
Prabhupāda: Because we are Hindu attached, so there is temporary information(?). Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "Tolerate." Don't be puffed up, "Oh, after giving so many..." Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After you go in the back for a massage, he'll ask some questions.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. What are those... (break)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There is good demand all over the world. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is not person; Kṛṣṇa is consciousness." (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa personally speaking, and "He is consciousness." He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "I come down."
| Page Title: | Bharata (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 06 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=48, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 48 |