Prabhupāda: First thing is... May I ask your name?
Guest (1): Bateriya.
Prabhupāda: Batel.
Guest (1): Bateriya.
Prabhupāda: Bateriya. You belong to this province?
Guest (1): No, I came from Sindh, Karachi.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Bateriya. So Mr. Bateriya, this process, this transcendental knowledge, super, superhuman knowledge, you cannot think first of all. You cannot think. You have to learn.
Guest (1): To realize all these things.
Prabhupāda: Realize after learning from the authority.
Guest (1): Because you see, this question I have asked from 1939... There was a little problem in Karachi. I was very fond of my father. He died when I was only ten. I thought on, "What is this?" and all these things. "Why we are, humanity is suffering all these things?" It was this question in my mind and what other, I thought of these problems. This appeared as invisible, you see, and material, but to me, inside, it is, you see, a teaching because it was not taught for any individual or for any kind of... It is taught for all men beyond the world so that we can bring that kind of life...
Prabhupāda: No, you are thinking from your side.
Guest (1): Not from my..., as a particular person but as of the, our own humanity, as a spiritualist.
Prabhupāda: The spiritual knowledge is called tat knowledge, tat, oṁ tat sat.
Guest (1): Oṁ tat sat. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oṁ tat sat. So the tat knowledge is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad-viddhi. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipātena. You understand praṇipāta? Surrender.
Guest (1): Surrender.
Prabhupāda: So tad viddhi. If you want to understand that transcendental knowledge, then you have to accept this process, praṇipāta. Praṇipāta means surrender, and surrender means there must be somebody to whom you surrender.
Guest (1): Whom you surrender, yes.
Prabhupāda: There are two, not alone. So you cannot alone think of tat knowledge. You have to surrender to somebody. That is the process.
Guest (1): There are eight kinds of getting the knowledge, means bhakti...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Bhakti is a process. Bhakti is not knowledge. That knowledge you acquire by your sense perception, and bhakti is the pure activities of the senses.
Guest (1): No, surrender means bhakti. One surrenders to...
Prabhupāda: No question of bhakti. That is the process. If you want to know about tat, then that is the process. You have to surrender. So long you will think that "I can think of, I have got power," you'll be failed.
Guest (1): That consideration of "myself, I am thinking," that is not there.
Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?
Guest (1): Thinking means...
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.
Guest (1): No, that sometimes thinking, when you are listening inside you...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.
Guest (1): Yes, my outer form is doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But inner form may be...
Prabhupāda: What is that inner form? You are inner form. Your outer, your coat, is not thinking. Your shirt is not thinking. What you mean by outward, inward? Inward you are. Outward your coat and shirt. Do you think your coat and shirt is thinking? You are thinking.
Guest (1): Yes, I am thinking, but, you see...
Prabhupāda: There is no "but." You are thinking.
Guest (1): I am thinking. One is at the lower level, and one is at the higher...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Either in the lower level or in the higher level, you are thinking.
Guest (1): Yes, all right.
Prabhupāda: And therefore, because you are thinking in the lower level, therefore your thinking is imperfect. So to be in higher level, you have to surrender to a higher personality.