Benefit (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"benefit" |"benefited" |"benefiting" |"benefits" |"benefitted"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. And there compulsory fasting, but he has got desire. So paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. When you get better taste, when you stop this nonsense for better taste, that is positive. Artificially, if you do, it will not benefit.

Dr. Patel: Ekādaśī, according to the Purāṇas and the stories, all the eleven senses should be withdrawn from their sense objects...

Prabhupāda: No, Ekādaśī, that is automatically... By Ekādaśī is one of the process for... (Hindi)

Indian (2): (Hindi)

Indian lady: May I ask one question? I'm running my own school in Hosharpur, and it starts to A-class, and I want to convert it into gurukula. How I can make arrangements for the books and the examination or the students can take Welley(?) certificate and examination from recognized book? We should make something.

Prabhupāda: Running on...? What is that school?

Indian lady: All kind of school, English-speaking.

Prabhupāda: But if you have to work under government regulation, then you cannot do it. You won't get government help.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore our Trivikrama Mahārāja is reminding me... When I was lecturing in Berkeley University, one Indian student asked me, "Swamijī, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will benefit? We require technology." So I replied that "You have come to beg technology; I have come to give them, not to beg from them."

Trivikrama: To teach. "I've come to give."

Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato... So our, this contribution of India's culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you'll be finished. But here-svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is... There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That's all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you'll get? He is under wrong impression that "I am Christian," and he's brought into another wrong impression—"I am Hindu." But he's neither Hindu nor Christian. He's servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit? A dog is also thinking, "I am dog." And if somebody is thinking, "I am Hindu," so where is the difference? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one thinks, "This body, I am"—either Hindu or Muslim or dog or cat, if one is thinking in that way, that "I am this body,"—sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's animal. So from one animal to another animal—from cat to dog or from dog to cat—where is the benefit? The position is the same. As a cat he will that "Meow," and as a dog, he'll "Gowl." That's all, that much difference. But he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). What is benefit of such humanitarian work? And Bhagavad-gītā says mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. No more either cat or dog. Mām eva. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. Punar janma means if I am cat, I become a dog, or if I am a dog, I become cat. That is punar janma. So that will continue his birth and death. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). What is that benefit? Suppose I am now human being and next life I become either dog or a demigod. So the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9) is there, either you become a demigod or a dog. But your position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You have to come to that position.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is going on...

Indian (1): ...through his karma.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are karmīs, they are working to go to the heavenly planet. And what he'll do? What he will benefit?

Indian (1): Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. In lakhs and lakhs, people there are one..., it is very difficult to find a jñānī.

Prabhupāda: No, jñānī... One can become jñānī in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he's jñānavān. Otherwise he's a rascal. So if you don't teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then he remains a rascal. That's all.

Indian (1): It is our duty to teach, to educate the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is education, that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he's not education.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I wanted to start this movement. I requested so many friends, "Give me your one son." Nobody. "Swamiji, (Hindi)."

Jagadīśa: What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: "What will be benefit by this if I make my son a Vaiṣṇava or a brāhmaṇa?"

Dr. Patel: No, but Vaiṣṇavas are born in the family. They did not become sādhus. Why should they?

Prabhupāda: No, no, they do not give much importance to the movement.

Jagadīśa: Haṁsadūta Mahārāja was describing that while they were traveling kīrtana, in one village one of the village boys wanted to join them. So he was living with them, and they were arrested by the village people and detained, and the boy was sent home, because of the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga means mandāḥ. Mandāḥ-two meaning. One is "slow"; another meaning is "bad." So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). Four times this word used: mandāḥ, sumanda-matayo, manda-bhāgyā.

Dr. Patel: But one thing about Kali-yuga is that by doing small amount of good work or doing little bhakti, it has a greater amount of benefit than you would get otherwise in Satya-yuga, Dvāpara or Treta. Is it not, sir? No...

Prabhupāda: Good work or bad work, you have to enjoy, good or bad.

Dr. Patel: But in Kali-yuga a little bhakti will do much good than a good amount of tapaḥ in Satya-yuga, thousands or millions of years.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti is different. Bhakti is transcendental. It has nothing to do with this material world. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato. That is bhakti. And karma, if you do good, you'll get good result, and if you do bad, you'll get bad result.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Following the example of Kaṁsa, unfavorable meditation on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that will also do benefit.

Trivikrama: Their center is Kṛṣṇa also, only they're demons.

Rāmeśvara: These are receipts, Śrīla Prabhupāda, each one for two thousand dollars deposited in your account in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: That is rent tax.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. We already entered that. Both times from Balavanta in...

Prabhupāda: You enter. Enter this.

Hari-śauri: Two from Balavanta, two from Rūpānuga.

Prabhupāda: Debit.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So in Orissa you'll be also there?

Rāmeśvara: They want me to go back to Los Angeles for that concert, because the governor is coming. That popular Hindu singer, Lata Mangeskar, she's giving a benefit concert in Los Angeles on January 30th.

Prabhupāda: So who will be the big ticket purchaser?

Rāmeśvara: Satsvarūpa. Oh. You mean in Los Angeles?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Hindus.

Rāmeśvara: There are approximately eight thousand Hindus living in Los Angeles, and we have rented one auditorium that seats six thousand people. So if they only sell two thousand seats, it does not cost any money. It covers all the expenses. Anything over two thousand seats is profit for ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: So how many Indians are there?

Rāmeśvara: Altogether in Los Angeles, eight thousand. Plus Indians from San Francisco will come to this concert because she is very popular. Gopāla sent one devotee, Jagat-puruṣa, to manage the ticket selling.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is expert.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You do yourself?

Rāmeśvara: They do, yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of rubber?

Rāmeśvara: It has something to do with the curves.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In clay, it cannot.

Rāmeśvara: They started manufacturing it, at a time. That's what they used. This is a doll of Kṛṣṇa speaking to Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Nobody can think it is doll. How many men are engaged?

Rāmeśvara: I think thirty devotees. That includes all the carpenters and...

Prabhupāda: And they are becoming expert so that in future many other also.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I simply see how the devotees are engaged in so nice occupation. This painting, this taking, thinking of Caitanya, thinking of Kṛṣṇa—this is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is... Nobody can deny. When he's working in this way he cannot think of other way. That will elevate him, simply by thinking. Man-manā. He'll derive greatest benefit. He'll become devotee. He'll get liberation from this material world simply by doing that. It is so nice. So in all our centers have this doll exhibit.

Rāmeśvara: This is Lord Nityānanda. Very blissful.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi guṇa mani āmāra nitāi-guṇa mani, āmiya premera bandha vasala ayantu.

Rāmeśvara: These little dolls are Gandharvas. There will be over two hundred of them in the Universal Form exhibit.

Prabhupāda: Who is the girl?

Rāmeśvara: That is one of the doll makers' wives.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And if we have to take contribution, take ISKCON. They're free. But for Bhaktivedanta Trust there is no need of contribution. Then there will be exemption certificate required and so on. We don't want any contribution. If anyone wants to contribute, let him contribute to the ISKCON. They're tax free. And here there is no tax, no tax free. That's all. Print book and sell and spend. Follow this policy there and here also, and push these books. That is our main preaching. Somehow or other, it must go, from door to door, hand to hand. Then our preaching is successful. Anyone who will read, he'll get some benefit. That is sure, because such literatures are not available throughout the whole world. It is a new revolution to the people in general. Am I right or not?

Rāmeśvara: Definitely.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, saṅga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-saṅga means that. Tad-yoṣanāt aśu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-saṅga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-saṅga. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-saṅga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, then it is very unfortunate. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, oṁ tat sat. Bhagavān is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavān, so there is no sat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Believe or not believe, that is another thing. But if you want to live worthy, then you have to study Bhagavad-gītā. You believe... Just like somebody believes or not believes in dehāntara, but nature's course will go on. Young man thinks "I'll remain young. I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samāji said... When I was explaining tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Kṛṣṇa is giving this example.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). So sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). If we accept sarvam etad ṛtam, as it is, then we benefited, and if we do not accept in that way, then it is naṣṭaḥ. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Then it is being spoiled. And what benefit you will get with spoiled thing? As soon as you interpret it is spoiled, immediately spoiled. So what benefit will be derived from the spoiled things? And that is being done. Don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, don't believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, and if I am preaching Bhagavad-gītā, what is the benefit? It is spoiled? So if you distribute some spoiled food, it will increase food poison. That is going on. Instead of taking benefit from a first-class food, if you distribute a spoiled, then there will be food poisoning. That is being done. In India every home knows Bhagavad-gītā. And because it is spoiled now there will be food poisoning. They are denying the existence of God. God is speaking—Bhagavān uvāca—and they are now..., don't.... They are not believing in the existence of God. "God? Where is God?" Science. This is going on. If we speak of God, then we are "primitive." And up-to-date? "I am God; you are God." This is up to date. And if we say, "Now, God is Kṛṣṇa. You worship Him. You become devotee," this is primitive. And these Americans, although they are up to date, they have accepted it, my word. I presented them that Kṛṣṇa is God. They have accepted. This is their qualification.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Unless they made such propaganda, how they could stay? They must give some plea that "I am staying for their benefit." That was the propaganda all through. And any Indian who would agree to say in the League of Nations and when there is conference, "Yes, we are so much benefited," he would be made secretary, governor. The flatterer, he would be made governor.

Rāmeśvara: So they kicked the British out, but they still have the British system.

Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.

Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.

Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I have go the right to think like that.

Rāmeśvara: So if I don't want to hear your philosophy, why are you imposing?

Prabhupāda: It is not imposing. It is good philosophy. We are canvassing, "Take it. You'll be benefited." And they are being benefited. Those who are reading, they are being benefited. Just like we are canvassing. We are Americans. You are not benefited. Therefore you are... Our Guru Mahārāja, Indian, he is not coming. We are doing, because we are benefited. We know we are benefited. Therefore it must be spread. That is our success. "Good thing must be given." Why you are advertising big, big order(?), "Please come and purchase Ford car," "Purchase Chevrolet car"? Yearly. Why you are canvassing?

Rāmeśvara: Because we think it is nice. To make money.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Why you are imposing your so-called goodness to others and spending so much money? Why you are doing?

Rāmeśvara: It is not physical. It is just mental.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering. Whole night slaughtering is going on, and there are screaming of the animals. Whole night. Even those who are meat-eaters, they will be disturbed. So the purpose is that "Let them live near the slaughterhouse, so by sentiment they are disgusted, leave this country." They don't want the Asians, especially Indians, and especially due to Gandhi, because they know, due to Gandhi... At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Hitler also did. Phāṇsa lāge dubudh bage: "If five men combine together, even the ghost will go away." (laughs) So everyone was against the Britishers. How they can keep their...? And nature's law also. They exploited the whole world for the benefit of few persons in London, and that is very bad.

Gurudāsa: You told me they wanted to be paid in gold by the Home Bill just to deplete the economy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Home Bill. Because I was student of economics. So Home Bill. Home Bill means all the Englishmen were engaged in India, either government, railway, industry, factory, and so on, so on, so on. Whatever... They have got some charges. So all the bills were sent to London, and they made a Home Bill. Their home is in England, so they won't take payment here. They'll take payment at home. And the government there, they'll present the whole bill to India and debit India's account in gold. That means, other words, all the payments which were to be made to the Englishmen in India, they were paid at home in gold.

Gurudāsa: So that means they would spend at home instead of India for the benefit of themselves.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I am not for home. I am for the whole world. It is not... I have no such idea (laughs) that "I shall exploit American men and money for India." That is not my ambition. For the benefit of the whole world.

Gurudāsa: You are doing "Back to Home" bill.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya. But actually I am exploiting American men and money, from this point of view. But what can I do? I do not make any national distinction, either American or Indian.

Gurudāsa: You are not exploiting...

Rāmeśvara: Spiritual Communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: There is no exploitation. America has enough money, and India has got enough culture. So they should combine for the benefit of the whole world.

Rāmeśvara: Now American culture is highly developed sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That is always. Now they've got enough money, but how they will utilize? That is the only source, outlet.

Rāmeśvara: So as the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement increases its influence, then American culture will gradually change?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As you have changed. You are American. Why not others?

Rāmeśvara: So the nightclubs and the cinema, this will be gradually...

Prabhupāda: Not required.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Along with all, that, though, they're allowed to please their senses in any way that they like. So their teaching doesn't really have much benefit for anyone. They're still doing all kinds of sinful activity. Now their idea is that if you accept Jesus, it means that you can carry on doing as many sinful activities as you like, but Jesus is going to take all the sinful reaction.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. "He died for us, so why should we suffer?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is the contractor. They say that "Our religion is very good. If you simply have faith in Jesus Christ, we can do anything."

Hari-śauri: "Let Christ continue suffering, and we'll enjoy."

Prabhupāda: In Aurobindo āśrama the same thing. Aurobindo said that "You simply think of me. Then you will be pure."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Rāmeśvara: This problem practically ruined Australia's economy. Five years ago Australia was a very wealthy country, and then they elected a new government, socialist government, and they began increasing all sorts of benefits, pensions, welfare benefits. And millions of people... Not millions, but many working people stopped working because it was easier just to get the free money. In this way...

Prabhupāda: So you should be very careful. Because you are giving free prasādam, similarly all lazy fellow may not come and take free prasāda. Therefore engagement must be there. Otherwise this lazy fellow will come, sleep and take prasāda.

Gargamuni: In Māyāpur we feed free on Saturday, Sunday. And during the week we feed those who work, those who work, them we feed, those who do service.

Prabhupāda: No, one day, two days, we give prasādam. But regularly we give prasāda and they'll remain lazy.

Rāmeśvara: So in Australia they kicked out the government, completely kicked them out.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. There is pūrṇam idam (Īśo Invocation). By God's arrangement everything is full. There is no question of overpopulation. Just see. So much land is lying vacant. There is no utilization.

Rāmeśvara: No, they should use their science for developing the resources for the benefit of all people. Prabhupāda: There is no needs of science. This is the science: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; there will be sufficient rain, and you till the ground and grow food. Hari-śauri: Actually by their science... Prabhupāda: This is the science. Hari-śauri: Their science is incapable. Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). If there is... What is your nonsense science? If there is no rain, drought, what you can do? Hari-śauri: They can't develop their science to that point where they can... Prabhupāda: No, these... These scientists are rascals. I call them rascals.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: He wants that you... He said, "The translator frequently adds comments containing information from other Vedic scriptures, for instance, ancient astronomical calculations referred to by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. It would be highly interesting to have a compilation of such astronomical texts translated into English. One can only hope that the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust endeavors to do this to the great benefit of the historians of science."

Prabhupāda: We shall do it. I am searching after some astronomer.

Rāmeśvara: There is also a review from one Indian professor, how this science...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they have become interested in our literature.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Whether he completely agrees or not, he's fascinated by it.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But...

Rāmeśvara: From Dr. Jagadish Sharma. He wrote that "This edition of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go a long way to help the scientists in rediscovering phenomena of the universe which is yet to be discovered."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. Then he was saying, "Our Vivekananda, he never did this Hare Kṛṣṇa. He's never done this." I said, "Well, actually..."

Prabhupāda: "What benefit you have got from Vivekananda?" You did not ask? What bene...?

Gargamuni: No. I told him "Actually Prabhupāda, he has done more work than Vivekananda in helping to spread India's dharma all over the world." I had to very careful because there were many other people sitting around, including the manager, and I didn't want to start a fight. So I said, "Actually Prabhupāda has done greater work." He said (in shocked tone), "What have you said? You have said that your guru is greater than Vivekananda?" I said, "He has done more work." And he started, "No. You cannot say that." Then two other men who were sitting there stood up and said, "No! He has done more work. I was at the Olympic games, and I heard the whole thing was chanting in Montreal. Last year I was at the Olympic games, and I saw them all chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has done more work." Two men, they came. So I just sat there and let those two men argue.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Gurukṛpa Mahārāja, what is the benefit of this modern education?

Gurukṛpa: No benefit. It makes them an ass.

Prabhupāda: Making them demons, that's all.

Gurukṛpa: They become puffed-up, thinking they know something. They don't know anything.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, modern educated youths, they are not inclined to come to the farm. So they're giving up their own father's property, farm. They do not come back from city. The farmers' children go to cities for education, and after so-called education the rascals do not come. Here also and in your country also, America and... They want city life and enjoy restaurant and prostitute.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So what improvement you have done, rascal?

Satsvarūpa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.

Prabhupāda: So what is benefit of motorcar?

Satsvarūpa: No benefit.

Prabhupāda: Motorcar benefit means you have to start big, big industries and neglect farming.

Gurukṛpa: In America they can say, "We have enough food. We have no shortage."

Prabhupāda: We are not thinking "We have." We are thinking how the human society is having.

Satsvarūpa: Well, they say "Let everyone help himself. We're taking care of ourselves."

Prabhupāda: But why not you? What is your humanity?

Gurukṛpa: So they say, "We work hard, and then they, they sit back."

Prabhupāda: So why do you make...? Who...? Who do you mean by "we"? It is, everything, belonging to Kṛṣṇa. You have plundered Kṛṣṇa's property. You won't allow others to come in. The Chinese, the Indians, they are congested. Why? What do you mean by "we"? It is your father's property? You have stolen Kṛṣṇa's property.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that para upakara. They do not know what is civilization. Such broader idea of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He never said that "Sit down in Vṛndāvana and become a bābājī." Kara para upakara. That is saṅkīrtana.

abaddha-karuṇā-sindhu katiha mohan

brahmāra durlabha prema nitāi kare dāna

This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. Karuṇā-sindhu, the ocean of mercy, it was blocked. Let it be opened, and distribute throughout the whole world. So if you work vigorously, this is an epoch-making history, how real culture is being distributed for the benefit of the whole human society. They'll realize.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So who is going to do that? All these... All rogues and thieves, drunkards and fourth-class character, meat-eaters, they are the government. How you can expect good government for the benefit of the people? This is Kali-yuga. Unfortunately we have on the heads of government all men of the low-grade character. You... Your President?

Satsvarūpa: New President?

Prabhupāda: No, that Kennedy.

Satsvarūpa: Kennedy.

Prabhupāda: He was always associating with naked woman.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, it's been discovered.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And he is the President.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: They simply wasted their time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Therefore this is the best service, to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness for the human society and send them back home, back to Godhead. This is the best service.

Gargamuni: And if anybody helps us, then he is also greatly benefited.

Prabhupāda: He is also... He becomes recognized by the master. "Oh, he is trying for this, what I want." Naturally he becomes immediately recognized, although he has no qualification. If he tries. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru. No qualification required. Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said." Just see how simplified. Don't talk anything nonsense. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Śyāmasundara's daughter. She was preaching, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "No I have got no..." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching, simply if you say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, supreme controller. Just be obedient to Him."

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: So all of these men are nonsense. But people accept their...

Prabhupāda: So we have no business to print other books of Gosvāmī literature.

Satsvarūpa: To cater to them.

Prabhupāda: That is not required.

Gargamuni: They won't follow, anyway.

Prabhupāda: These two books, Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, if they actually read and assimilate, their life will be successful. So we want to organize widespread publicity of these books. They'll be benefited.

Satsvarūpa: I think one important principle in this individual book-selling will be a science to find out of all the masses people, the likelier people... (end)

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then he has to follow you because by taking your instruction I shall stop following others; that means I'll have to follow you. So what is the benefit? Instead of following others, I have to follow you? My following is there. That is not stopped.

Satsvarūpa: They claim they don't want to be leaders, but actually they do.

Prabhupāda: That means rascal. What he says, that is contradictory. That means rascal.

Pṛthu-putra: But he commit suicide at the end of his life, Camus, yes. He's a philosopher, a French philosopher. He commit suicide at the end of his life. Can you believe that?

Passerby: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So many things going on. Very difficult to lead spiritual life.

sandarśanaṁ viṣayiṇām atha yoṣitāṁ ca

hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu

(CC Madhya 11.8)

Actually one who is serious going back to home, back to Godhead—for such person, one should be niṣkiñcana, no connection with these material woman and money. Niṣkiñcanasya. (break) But I am not collecting money for sense gratification. For preaching work. Kṛṣṇa-sambandhe... Kṛṣṇa sabaya yāhā haya anukula, viṣaya boliyā tāhā haya phul.(?) The anything which is favorable to my preaching work, that is not viṣaya. Ta phul.(?) Then that is mistake. Why the air is misty? That... (break) Similarly, you can kill. You have to see it, what for they are killing. Stalin was killing for his own sense gratification. He wanted to maintain himself in the position, and anyone going against him, he would kill. That was not for the citizens' benefit. For his own benefit. Therefore he's a criminal. Just like soldier is killing hundreds of thousands of other soldiers. He is being awarded, "Oh, you are brave." And as soon as he kills one man for his own—he is hanged. So we have to see what is the cause that Arjuna fought for Kṛṣṇa, he became a devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). Very dear friend. What is the business? To kill. There are different.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There must be.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Einstein admitted that. That is real scientific brain. And so nicely it is going on without any brain behind it? How it can go so nice? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. That brain is Kṛṣṇa. That they do not know. Now our business is: "Here is the brain. If you take it, you benefit it. What you are actually searching, here is." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Find out this verse. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Hari-śauri: Even for a crude machine, it requires some intelligence to construct a design.

Prabhupāda: Anything you take, it requires intelligence. Just like you have made this garland. Somebody intelligent has decorated. So who has made it? That they have no intelligence. They decorate this garland, one red flower and yellow flower, make it very attractive, but who has made this flower? That they have no intelligence. And that is answered. Mām ebhyaḥ param, mūḍho nābhijānāti. I am trying to taking the flower to make it more beautiful by setting them in this way, but who has made this beautiful flower? Whose brain is there? And that is explained there.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The child may be foolish but father-mother cannot see that their child will remain a fool. He can force. Government also, why there is military force? Why there is police force? If you want to be outlaw, then you'll be forced to accept the law. Force is required.

Devotee (1): But first the child has to see that there is some benefit from going to school.

Prabhupāda: Child cannot see. He's a rascal. He should be beaten with shoes. Then he will see. The child cannot see. Putraṁ ca śiṣyaṁ ca tāḍayen na tu lālayet: "Sons and disciples should be always chastised." That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. "Never pat them. Lālane bahavo doṣās tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ... "If you pat, then he'll be spoiled. And if you chastise him, he'll come out a very nice person. Therefore, either disciple or son, they should be always chastised." This is the injunction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. There is no question of patting them.

Gurukṛpā: People want to be flattered. They don't want to be told very strongly.

Prabhupāda: And that is the position of disciples. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru more mūrkha dekhi' (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu was God Himself, and He said that "My Guru Mahārāja saw me a fool rascal number one." Chastisement. That is required. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, a great moral instructor. He has advised, tāḍayen na tu lālayet: "Always chastise them. Otherwise they'll be spoiled."

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why do you pay? One man is earning ten rupees a day, but when there is some case he is paying fifty rupees a day or fifty rupees per standing a lawyer. Why does he pay? No, you say to them that "We are brāhmaṇas. The more you pay us, you'll be benefited." What do they say? That "You are living at the cost of others"?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. We are taking from the society.

Satsvarūpa: They don't recognize our activity as work, honest work.

Gurukṛpā: Think we're cheating. Many people interrupt our book sales, saying "These people are simply taking money."

Prabhupāda: Where do they say? In your country?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. They come, and they stop the sale: "Don't give him anything. He's cheating."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: At least if they see and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa that will make them advance. Chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra before Gaura-Nitāi will make them very quickly advanced in spiritual consciousness. Very quickly. There is no offense. He does not take any offenses. Whatever little service they do, it is accepted by Gaura-Nitāi. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. So if you can do this, it will be very nice. Let them at least keep Gaura-Nitāi there in their room. They'll see. That will be benefit. And if they offer little respect and offer prasādam and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, oh then what to...? It will be very nice. Otherwise, if they simply see the Gaura-Nitāi pair, they will advance.

Yugadharma: Because there is no one actually doing this as far as I know on the Western part of that country.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I have encouraged him to prepare Gaura-Nitāi and nicely dress. They can be sold.

Yugadharma: 'Cause Dhanañjaya and I get along very well. We are very good friends.

Prabhupāda: So they're already sending in foreign countries Gaura-Nitāi pair?

Satsvarūpa: Are they sending them yet?

Yugadharma: No they are making... They have twenty pairs made now, and I have bought them all. Also one who is interested is Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa?

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now they're getting two vans for book distribution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And now Gargamuni is asking to purchase this van and with that money they will purchase Indian van. That will solve the problem. Those who are coming... (break) Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Kṛṣṇa says. Anāśritaḥ, now you are working so hard not for your benefit, personal, and that is sannyāsī. That is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam. "Oh it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa." And he is sannyāsī. Anyone who has got this consciousness that "It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. I must serve Him with my life and soul and everything," he's a sannyāsī. Not the dress. So you are doing that. Now fix up. Go on doing this. Life is successful. That's all. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. Find out this verse. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalam. It is so nice to work for Kṛṣṇa without any personal profit. This is Vṛndāvana. The gopīs, they sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa, their position, their honor, their prestige. So do like that. I am very glad to see when you work so hard for Kṛṣṇa. That gives me much pleasure.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: She said, "Your Gurujī is just like Nethaji. He went outside of India and organized army of Vaiṣṇavas."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now it is in the right hand. Resourceful, you Americans. You can do this. There is scientist. So we have got the framework very nice. Now you can push on. It is a good movement for the benefit of the whole world. Kṛṣṇa will help you. Kṛṣṇa will recognize you. Go on pushing rightly. Our only mission is para-upakāra—we don't want to exploit anyone—Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The people in general, human being, they have got this opportunity of being out of the clutches of māyā and they are kept in darkness. What is this? Is that civilization? This is our mission. Here is opportunity for his getting out of the clutches of māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and they are being misled, the so-called science and nasty philosophy and economics and making them, training them as demons and rākṣasas. What is this civilization? So our movement is against this demonic civilization. It is really para-upakāra.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The municipal means public.

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So for public benefit why they shall not give?

Jayapatākā: Even that place at Calcutta, they never said it was illegal to give to us. They only said they didn't want to give. That Calcutta pukura, they never said it was illegal to give. So in this place, they said they want to give. So why they should...?

Prabhupāda: Where is illegality? For public, it is a historical place.

Jayapatākā: They might have come to see whether we would do... You have a light?

Prabhupāda: The light is outside. There is no lantern? No, one will do.

Jayapatākā: We never met this municipal executive. He might have just suggested that "Let's see if they'll do it without giving them."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: The principle we're following.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the... For the big scale, this is the required. In big scale you cannot make all of them as brāhmaṇas or sannyāsīs. No. That is not possible. This is a small scale. How many percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be introduced according to the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole human society. Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said para-upakāra. Why a certain section should be picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is required, systematic. Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. Para-upakāra means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to introduce this varṇāśrama-dharma. It must be done perfectly, and it is possible and people will be happy.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: It requires powerful influence in the society to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If the leaders of the society, they agree. They are barking like dogs in the United Nation. They should take rightly the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be all right. They're simply barking like dogs. What benefit is there? What benefit people have derived from the United Nation? Nothing. So if they want actually world peace, world unity, they must take the formula given by Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. Because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so our duty is to convince that "You are uselessly wasting your time for unity, for benefit of the human... You take this. You'll be happy." We are safe. We have taken to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter. There is no doubt. But... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said that "I am quite happy. I have no problem. But I am thinking of these rascals." Tato vimūḍha-cetasa indriyārtha: "They have made the whole aim of life sense gratification." Indriyārtha. "And for that purpose, a few years, they're making huge arrangement, how we shall become happy?" And next life a dog. It is risky. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we should try to save them. That is the duty. But this civilization as it is going on is very risky. They do not know how nature's law is working, how he's going to be a dog next life. He does not know. Mūḍho nābhijānāti. To save the mass people from falling down to the repetition of birth and death, that is welfare activity. To save them by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varṇāśrama, that "Here is the position."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Example. Just like Bhavānanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He's a sannyāsī Vaiṣṇava. Similarly, āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a sannyāsī." But He took sannyāsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyāsī, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varṇāśrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varṇāśrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce. Now the days of wind will come from March.

Satsvarūpa: Winds begin?

Prabhupāda: And April this wind is...

Satsvarūpa: Winds begin now?

Bhavānanda: Yes. They'll start to come from the south. Vaikuṇṭha breezes.

Prabhupāda: Now here is a very nice institution for the benefit of the whole society human.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: The second half of that verse says that "As they surrender unto Me I reward accordingly," So it's not that everybody gets the same results.

Prabhupāda: Yes, accordingly, because nothing can happen without Kṛṣṇa's desire. Even if you want some benefit from the demigods, that must be sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa. That is stated. Mayaiva vihitān hi tān. Find out. Ye 'py anya-devatā. Ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktāḥ. (break)

Bhavānanda: They also say that everything... They accept everything as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Everything is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa and everyone has same qualities as Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. That is rascaldom.

Bhavānanda: One drop of the ocean contains all the qualities of the big ocean, the chemical components...

Prabhupāda: Then all the qualities, not the quantity. Then how it can be equal?

Bhavānanda: But absolute means that a part is also equal to the whole.

Prabhupāda: Equal to the whole in quality, not in quantity.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they cannot condemn our religion. The books are perfect. (someone brings some prasāda)

Prabhupāda: Ne, one or two will do. Why so many? That's... So what benefit he has got, this Manasvī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually he is at a great loss. Any position he had here when he was a devotee, he has lost everything. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...with this lantern? Electricity was introduced when we were boy, and that also not every house could provide electricity. Formerly they used to utilize gas, coal gas. If one man has got gaslight in his house, he is considered to be rich man. And gas... Mantle... Formerly electricity was... What is that? Carbon? Two carbon? In the morning it has to be changed. That Mahatma Gandhi Road was Harrison Road. So in our childhood, when the carbon would be changed, they would throw. We shall collect it.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: Vivikta-deśa-sevitvam aratir jana-saṁsadi (BG 13.11).

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not to mix with ordinary men, aratir jana, general public. Just like this, our place—only devotion. This is vivikta, aloof from this world. We have no other business except Kṛṣṇa consc..., bhakti. And aratir jana-saṁsadi, no, mean, association with ordinary person, no association. We can go and talk of some..., for our own benefit or Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we have no business with them. Noncooperation. We go to the public for preaching, not to associate with them. To give them association, so they may be benefited. Either he may be prime minister or this or that, we have no business with them. But for our purpose we go. Big, big karmīs, life member. So we have no personal concern, but for their benefit we go there. Their hard-earned money, if something is spent for this purpose, he'll be benefited. This is our... Otherwise we have no business with them. Aratir jana-saṁsadi.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So this is the position. Still, we have to do our business. What can be done? Difficult task. Therefore, if you want to please Kṛṣṇa very quickly, you should struggle for preaching.

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ

(Bg 18.68)

So we have got our business, to please Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission. So despite there are so many inconveniences, we have to do this business. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramam avyayam. They are all mūḍhas. So we have been engaged to teach them some lesson. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did also. He sacrificed all personal comforts, home life. He was learned scholar, very honored in Navadvīpa. He had no grievances with family: His wife, Viṣṇupriyā; affectionate mother, Śacīdevī. But still, He gave up everything for the benefit of the whole world.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes we find a dilemma in preaching, in the sense that if we preach very vigorously we invoke the attention of the authorities. That is to say, if we were to preach a little less vigorously, there might be less objection, but then again there would be the less benefit because we would not be preaching as vigorously. It's very hard to know sometimes just how forcefully to preach.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not to satisfy the authorities. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to satisfy his family members, but Kṛṣṇa did not like that. Then He preached him Bhagavad-gītā, and then Arjuna agreed, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So it is the duty of the devotee to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not the public.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, it should be continued as "ācārya"

Ādi-keśava: In one place they say that if you read your Perfection of Yoga, you will sleep better.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the advertisement for the Perfection of Yoga it says that one of the results will be, he says here, "At night you will fall asleep immediately." This is the benefit of reading Perfection of Yoga.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) But he admitted. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...and actually for the benefit of the human society. They have no other desire.

Hari-śauri: No, they can't stop this movement. It's not possible to stop this movement now.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. That I'm certain. It is advertising indirectly. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: Will things get physically violent?

Prabhupāda: Well, the violence there may be. It doesn't matter.

Hari-śauri: We should... If we have to, we can...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We must... Self-protection must be there.

Hari-śauri: Because now with these kidnappings it seems that we may have to...

Prabhupāda: Fight!

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That has not come. We want to introduce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More spontaneous.

Prabhupāda: That is sure. Anyone who will take it, he will have the benefit. Such a civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that described as rāgānugā-bhakti?

Prabhupāda: Hm? No. That is not rāgānugā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean when it's more spontaneous.

Prabhupāda: That is rāgānugā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is vaidhī-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: This is... I am speaking from my realization. It is not superficial.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not that willingly they're coming, "Oh, it is good institution." That they do not. One or two, that way they are coming. Otherwise...

Jayapatākā: But the others who are giving the children here, they are seeing that here the child can benefit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, their fathers realize. But generally all helpless people, no caretaking at home, "So let me go to..."

Jayapatākā: Up to now there's been no book distribution. Only thing people heard is by word of mouth. And actually the word of mouth won't convey a very broad understanding. "You can go and stay. Bas." But now with our book distribution...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 21, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā's mother: I will see him this evening.

Prabhupāda: Yes, your son will be able to answer all questions. Like Devahūti, you can take instruction from your son. That is in the history. Son is instructing mother. Generally mother instructs the son, but there is that history son is instructing mother. Because here we make such relationship—mother, father, son, daughter, relative. Actually this is material nature made, in different bodies. Otherwise, real father is Kṛṣṇa. (devotees exclaim—lights go out?) This is the benefit of modern science, (laughter) (Prabhupāda laughs) that in the evening you require light—there is no light in the evening. When you require, there is no light. Better depend on the natural oil.

Bhāgavata: In Satya-yuga or Tretā-yuga they would not drill for petrol to use to make electricity or to make these gas lamps, so by what means did they use to light the palaces and the kingdoms? What was the natural resource utilized for that purpose?

Prabhupāda: This oil. You produce castor seed oil. You grow castor seed by agricultural.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The crowd is the same? No. Diminished.

Jayatīrtha: Well, the crowd that's in Trafalgar Square is mostly there already. That's the thing, because there's always people in Trafalgar Square. So when the Ratha-yātrā comes they stay and they make benefit by ajñāta-sukṛti. But the number of people that are out in the parade is not very great. I've been thinking how it can be increased, because they keep us in one small lane about as wide as this room along this road, and they make you have this small cart, and the people are spread out for so long. A lot of Hindus come, but sometimes they are so far away from the cart it's hard to keep the kīrtana very nice, so they can't see the Deities. And after being in San Francisco for so many years at the Ratha-yātrā, I didn't feel so enthusiastic. That San Francisco festival is so elevated, so wonderful. Therefore I was thinking that if we could move it...

Hṛdayānanda: (indistinct)

Jayatīrtha: Not in the same way.

Pañcadraviḍa: Do we use like a marching band in the Ratha-yātrā? If we used a marching band, a lot of people come, like a parade, like they use in the parades with trumpets and drums and all these things.

Prabhupāda: I think you can introduce in Africa also. (laughter)

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Good there is undoubtedly. If you eat something, there will be some effect of eating. But if it is properly eaten, properly made, it will be, have better effect. That is the idea.

Rāmeśvara: We were thinking that something is better than nothing.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: If you advertise the mahā-mantra gives some material benefit, isn't that an offense?

Prabhupāda: Then that is aparādha.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is aparādha.

Hari-śauri: One of the ten offenses.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause sometimes when we interview these people who are chanting, they speak from their own realization, and it is not exactly the version of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, it is not..., but it is their own realization, whatever little bit they have realized.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They may chant, but they must understand that the chanting process, that will be more effective. That they must know. Chanting is open. Anyone can chant, but they must know it, that "If I chant in the proper process, then it will be effective."

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is a better meditation. Meditation... One is performing meditation silently. But if we chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa," it is forced meditation. He has to meditate. So it is better meditation. Just like they're chanting. I am engaged in different business. Still, I am hearing. (kīrtana in background) This is the... And one is silently meditating, he's getting, maybe he's getting the benefit, but here anyone who is hearing, getting benefit. Therefore chanting is better than... Yes. And it is recommended by Haridāsa Ṭhākura that... This is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that "Chanting, even the trees, even the insects and the animals, they will hear and they get the benefit." So it is better meditation. Even the trees, plants, animals, birds, beasts, they can take benefit. And if it is done by pure Vaiṣṇava, then they get the full benefit.

Rāmeśvara: There's another trend that I have noticed recently, that they have... In the past, formerly, many articles were full of quotes in Sanskrit, and recently they have not been using so much Sanskrit, but just the English. The magazine is, they say, is mostly sold...

Prabhupāda: That is not bad. Sanskrit, not necessarily it has to be quoted, but the English is there. It is sufficient. The purport is there.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How can I give them? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ: (BG 7.15) "Anyone who has not fully surrendered to..., he is this, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ." That's a fact. Just see. This man has got some intelligence. He's simply cheating. This is duṣkṛtina. He should have preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has got intelligence. He has created a position, means this is intelligent. But that intelligence he's applying for declaring himself as God. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Intelligence being used for some bad purpose. He's not God. Cheating purpose. He knows it. Everyone knows that he does not know. But he is using his intelligence for some bad purpose for making some temporary position. How rascal he is. He's not God. Suppose he is accepted as God. But he is imitation or cheating God. How long it will go on? But he's such a rascal he does not know that. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Therefore mūḍha. For few years, suppose he remains so-called God. What is the benefit? Next life he may become a dog. What is the benefit? Therefore mūḍha. Māyā-sukhāya, indriyārtham. Indriyārtha-māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Hm? For sense gratification for a few years and make such gorgeous cheating process. Therefore he's rascal. He does not know the value of his eternal life, how he is going to become a dog next life. He knows, but he doesn't care. He's such a rascal. For temporary happiness, men and woman, er, woman and money.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Guest (1) (Indian man): Actually, I have thought, without glorifying, because I did not want any material gain, but was my firm faith that what attracted me was the worth not of my personal ability but abilities of many other people.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to understand the subject matter for which we are working. Personal benefit and extended personal benefit, there is no difference by quality. Generally they take it that "I am working for my family. If I work for my community, or if I work for my society..." Extended. So the quality does not change.

Guest (1): The quality is... But even dharma many come, the mind should not be idle. Even if you go...

Prabhupāda: Mind cannot be idle. That is also foolishness.

Guest (1): Even if you go for religious sevā, that you go for some benefit, not otherwise, either for yourself or for the world.

Prabhupāda: But we must know what benefit is essential. Therefore I am trying to explain that there is body and there is the owner of the body. So which is important? There is this dress and the owner of the dress. If you simply take care of the dress and do not take care of the owner of the dress, do you think that is very good intelligence?

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That he should act simply for the benefit of the guru. This is the process. He has no personal interest. He'll go by the order of guru to beg alms from different householders and... They are innocent children. They'll go, ask, "Mother, give me some alms." And the mother also knows that "My child or his child, they are all neighbors' child. They will give." And whatever collection is there, he'll bring it to guru. So he does not claim that "I have collected. It is my property." No. It is guru's property. This is the first training. He works so hard to collect, but the property belongs to the guru. Guror hitam. This is first training. And that is the meaning of karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. That gentleman was quoting this. He does not know what is the meaning. He... Karmaṇy e... He is engaged to work, to collect. Just like you are doing that. You are, whole day you are working for the selling books, but you don't make a farthing even out of the profit. That is for the guror hitam, for the benefit of guru.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayādvaita: That is one of their objections, that "These people, young people, work all day... "

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayādvaita: "...and they give all the money to the guru."

Prabhupāda: You show. You show these quotes from the śāstra. "This is our training, guror hitam, for the benefit of guru. So this is our śāstra." (break) ...he comes, he should stay here. His name is Gopāla.

Indian: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (break)...two years ago. (break) ...eighty-one. (break) Oh, very nice. (Bengali) (break) Very nice. (break)...quired, but I remember this movement, the Godbrothers.(?) (Bengali) (break)

Hṛdayānanda: This is from Professor K. D. Vajpay, Tagore Professor and Head of the Department of Ancient Indian History, Culture and Archeology, Director, Excavation and Exploration, Chairman, the Numismatic Body of India...

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: In so many ways Kṛṣṇa is trying to convince that living soul is different, completely different from matter. Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be cut into pieces. It cannot be burned. It cannot be moistened. It cannot be dried up." In so many ways... "It does not take birth. It does not die. It is not finished after the body is finished." This is the greatest ignorance. And if they want to keep people in ignorance, that is not good business. In the name of education, cheating people. Why there should be education? What is the benefit?

Girirāja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit in that. It just makes people more unhappy.

Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?

Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?

Girirāja: Um... Well, nobody is immediately planning to vacate, and the hopes of the cases is always delayed. Actually the lawyer says that the court is dealing with cases before 1973. Actually the judicial system is very bad.

Prabhupāda: Very bad.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my karma, the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.

Prabhupāda: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The real scientific method is that the life which is in contact with this matter, he's suffering. And the real, I mean to say, enjoyment or peaceful life is to get him out of this condition of material contact. That is the best benefit. But these rascals, they are trying to adjust material things to give him happiness. "You are walking, all right, you take this car." That is not happiness. He does not know that in the car there are so many problems—more danger than walking. This is the mistake going on. Car is good, but that is not the solution. Solution is different. That we must... Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Let us go back to home, back to Godhead. (pause) So that Sharma is more impressed.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Stupidity. The father is there. Not only ordinary father, but the ablest, most powerful father. And we shall not take care? We shall not take care of the property of the father? It is my right to inherit the property of the father. That is natural. And I shall deny and loiter in the street? And the greatest benefit to the human society... Because the mad son is loitering in the street without any information of the father, to bring him back before the father. That is the best. He will be happy. This is our position.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What benefit they will get?

Girirāja: No, only harassment, they have... They have nothing to gain actually. And everyone knows it. But they are just so weak and political minded that they don't want to stand up against Mattrey, the officers. Anyway, I think I should go now then.

Prabhupāda: He is coming?

Girirāja: Yes. I'll bring him here so there will be no unnecessary waiting. And...

Prabhupāda: What time?

Girirāja: By eight at the latest. We'll try for earlier also. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Unless there is adhyātmika adjustment, there cannot be lasting benefit.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is... That we do not know. Just like you take a fish from the water and put it on the land. It will never become happy. Again you throw him in the water, he will feel happy. So the living entity is different from prakṛti. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim. These material elements, earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, these are gross and subtle material elements. And the living being, jīva-bhūta, is superior than the inferior material elements. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Parā-prakṛti, it is part and parcel of God. Unless we understand this fact, which is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, this material adjustment will never make us happy.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore even little effort is giving great benefit. But we must know what that effort should be. Everything is there. We must take advantage of it. But we are not taking advantage. Now we have got good government, very nice. Now you should take advantage of the privileges which are there in India. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. If you take direction from Bhagavad-gītā, then you will get. The whole human society will be benefitted. That you do not know. That is the defect. Even big, big leaders, they profess to student of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know anything. Although it is clearly stated. Who is the leader in India who does not know Bhagavad-gītā? Even Morarji Desai, when he was to be arrested by leaders, government, he said "Wait, let me finish my reading of Bhagavad-gītā," is it not?

Mr. Rajda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: That meeting could be arranged any time. Whenever it is convenient to you, you can, we can talk to him.

Prabhupāda: No, I am..., my life is dedicated for this purpose. I am... It is convenient for me at any time. Otherwise, I am not keeping good health at the moment. Still, I have come. I am just trying even up to the last moment of my life, if I can deliver some good to these people. That is my determination. What is this life? Life will end today or tomorrow or day after. But if you live just to the point, that is the idea. Otherwise trees are also living thousands of years. What is the benefit?

Mr. Rajda: Morarji Desai meeting we can arrange any time. Will it be possible, suppose I go there and fix up time and telephone over there?

Indian (2): Yes. You can give my card and telephone number

Mr. Rajda: All right, all right. That will be arranged.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not a sectarian. It is full of... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So it is practically proved, how they are taking Bhagavad-gītā. So it is science. It is actually life. So why not practice in India? It is not that everyone will be able, but there must be an exemplary sect. People may see that there is ideal. That we can do. India it is easier, because those who are born in India, constitutionally they have got that tendency. Simply we have to channelize. Then everything will be... So there is a good chance. Now the government has changed. They are after something very good, and the direction is there. If you take it seriously, there will be no difficulty.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.

Hari-śauri: (reads) Purport. "Activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or acting for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa without expectation of sense gratification is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed. Otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in the material activity, without one hundred percent success, there is no profit. Ajāmila performed his duty in some percentage of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ

ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ

(SB 1.5.17)

If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly? (SB 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body, but work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness carries the person again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brāhmaṇa or in a rich aristocratic family that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So it is not good. They do not know. (Hindi) Four-wheel dogs. That is advancement of civilization. The dog is running with four legs, and he is running with four wheels. Dag-dag-dag-dag-dag. Where you are going? And this is their scientific advancement. Competition with dog. Otherwise what they have done? The ant hill, and four-legged wheel. That's all. Four wheel legs. This is animal civilization. Without knowing the aim of life, living in big, big skyscraper building, "I am king." And running like dogs with four wheel car, Mercedes. This is dog civilization. It is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when they take Kṛṣṇa's instructions: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Divide the whole human society into four divisions and let them cooperatively act for the benefit of God. That is civilization. There civilization begins. Otherwise, what is the difference between dog and the human being? There is no difference. The leaders are teaching, "Feel like Indians." As a dog is feeling, "I am bulldog." This is our leaders.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Māyāpur. Many breezes.

Prabhupāda: The sea breeze.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not so cool on the lower floors—where you are staying in the office.

Gargamuni: There no, it is hot. This is very good.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those houses where you were formerly staying, it is not so like this at all.

Prabhupāda: Which house?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your old quarters. You don't get the advantage of the breeze.

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes there is nasty breezes coming.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is a wrong type of civilization. A civilization of ignorance. Animal civilization. Just like animals: the cat, the dog, the cow, he does not know what is the working principle in the body. So he is jumping and running as a dog, as a cat, and he appears to be very busy. Similarly, the modern civilization, they are jumping and running like cats and dogs, but does not know what is the principle which is helping him to jump and run. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Asmin dehe dehinaḥ. The active principle is there within this body. So who knows it? Ask big, big leaders, big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā. They are concerned with this body. Nobody is interested with the active principle within the body. So what do they know about Bhagavad-gītā? The basic principle is wrong. Kṛṣṇa is speaking on the subject matter within the body, the active principle. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe. The dehī, the owner of the body, is there. Who knows it? Tell me. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. But one does not know that what is the important thing in this body. Not this machine, but the power that is driving the machine. And still, they are proud of becoming scholar on Bhagavad-gītā, knower of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, so on. This is going on. This misconception. They are themselves in ignorance, and they are keeping their followers in ignorance. Therefore no benefit has been derived from this culture of Bhagavad-gītā. We wanted to give it to the world. This is the purpose.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone. And in some day he will not be there, somebody will come. That is the history of the whole world. But that will not benefit the human society, politics. It is useless. This knowledge will help make the solution. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). We are suffering in this material condition, and He is delivering from this. That is real upakāra. That's the repetition of history, politics.

Mr. Koshi: But it has been going on for quite some time.

Prabhupāda: It is going on, but time immemorial. That is not the solution.

Mr. Koshi: They have seen to have more control over people than others. When a person is empowered, his actions can affect so many people.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of people?

Mr. Koshi: Cats and dogs.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Śva-viḍ-varāha. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as dogs, camels, asses and hogs. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. (break) The leader of hogs, dogs, camels and asses. Our civilization is brahminical, brāhmaṇa. That is wanted.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to...

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, they know it. Study the whole history of the world. What the big, big leaders have done? They are not new leaders. Before them, all over the world there were big, big leaders. Napoleon promised so many things. At last, he had to drink horse's urine and die. When he was captured by the Englishmen he wanted water and he was given horse urine. Envisioned, "I shall make my promise, the most important stage." The Britishers, so many, Gladstone, Churchill, Lloyd George(?), British Empire. Have they done any benefit? Indira made plan, Nehru family will be English terrorist. Now what is her position? So they studying history. Still, they are promising. Mūḍha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the great saintly persons, their works have done good for generations in thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Become rājarṣi, try to understand what Kṛṣṇa says. Duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. They will manufacture. Morarji Desai, he promised within ten years. Whether he will live ten years? He is already eighty. So this is the time for promising? This is the time for retiring for understanding Kṛṣṇa. You know. This man is rotting in the hospital, he's promising so many things.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not that... Letter written to Calcutta, that copy should be enclosed to the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's what I meant. Actually, that's good because he'll be eager to follow through to see that the money comes, because he is going to get the benefit of fixing it in his bank. (pause)

Prabhupāda: If possible we can start a center in Srinagar. If there is opportunity. Many foreigners come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many foreigners come.

Prabhupāda: If we start a center there, it will be very nice. That will be also one of the items of tourist program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can get Dr. Karan Singh's help very easily in Srinagar.

Prabhupāda: And Raja Sheik Abdullah has taken our Bhagavad-gītā, so we can invite him to talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Sheik Abdullah, the prime minister there, Kashmir.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So "The Honorable S.D. Chawan, Chief Minister of Maharastra. Dear Sri Chawan, kindly accept my greetings and extend the same to your good wife. I am so much obliged to you that you have lauded our activities throughout the world. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on deep science of the laws of nature. This human life is a boon for the conditioned soul to understand this science. I do not wish to take much of your valuable time, but I would have been very much pleased that persons like you, without any political prejudice, come and take up his movement seriously and benefit the whole human society with this knowledge. At least in India, where this knowledge was generated, there must be some institution to know it perfectly and distribute it throughout the world. That will glorify India's prestige. To broadcast India's glorification is the duty of every Indian without any political differences. I wish that you may take some active part in this movement and thus magnify the prestigious position of India. Thank you very much for your coming here today and speaking so nicely about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Your ever well-wisher, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami."

Girirāja: Nice letter.

Prabhupāda: So yes, no, he...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't say yes, and he couldn't say no.

Prabhupāda: Position is tottering.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So He declares that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth as human being, not cats and dogs..." Cats and dogs, they simply jump whole night: "Gow! Gow! Gow!" That is another... We find so many dogs, whole night busy, watching. Whose property he is watching? But he... He has got this business, very busy. As soon as some motorcycle or some..., "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" watching, watching, watching. So therefore this is business of cats and dogs. But human being's business is different. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India, bhārata-bhūmi..." Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra: "First of all make your life perfect"—you have got the opportunity, Vedic culture—"and then distribute the knowledge all over the world for doing good to the whole human society." That will glorify the prestige of India. So why not continue this? Let there be an institution fully following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then people will be benefited. If you say, "It is secular," Bhagavad-gītā is for every man. There is no question of Hindu, Muslim, Christian or this or that, no. When Kṛṣṇa says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

So this growing... A child is growing to become a boy. A boy is growing to become a young man. A young man is growing to become an old man. So what is the secular? Everyone grows.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: It has got to be institutionalized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not make that? This political change, this political situation change, it will go on. Today you are powerful. Tomorrow I am powerful. That does not make any difference. Indira Gandhi was so powerful. In one day everything finished. So it may be finished, my position. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. They do not know, behind these all activities there is a person who can do anything He likes. So what about to know about Him? So these things are there in India. The knowledge is not secret. It is open. So without distorting it, without breaking it and spoiling it, why not give it as it is for the benefit of the whole humanity? You are young man. You can think over.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: So far, he seems to be more preoccupied with his own ideas, so we don't know whether there will be any benefit to this meeting.

Prabhupāda: But if he wants to meet, I have no objection. (break) ...and the host was very rich man in anywhere. And he has no son. He expressed his desire to father to take me. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your father would not give you up. He was a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Another gentleman in Hasi(?)... We were going in the same car. So he requested me, "Please come here." An old man, nice, very well-to-do man. And after giving the nice seat and some refreshment, so he said that "I like you very much. I have no son. Why don't you become my son?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like everyone is very affectionate to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. He picked up on the street like this.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: At that time I was ten years old. Or twelve years. Not more than twelve years. But I liked that place very much. They still presented the foodstuff, fresh. I have been many... Not many. In the village so tasteful, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and they cooked so nicely. Nice milk. Everything very nutritious. That life is gone. What is this nonsense life, hanging in the daily buses, outside. Kṛṣṇa advises to live village life, agriculture, and utilize time for understanding your spiritual life. That is... So we are trying to introduce this, this farm life. (break) Out of so many other living entities, he tried to give me trouble. How you can check?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika.

Prabhupāda: So therefore a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, they know the body is the cause of... "Because I have got this body, I am suffering. Therefore partial service to the body, what benefit?" That is... That requires very good brain. Today I have got eye trouble. Tomorrow I have got leg trouble. The other day I have got hand trouble. But the... (end)

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So impress this point to Mr. Rajda.

Girirāja: Mr. Rajda himself in his letter wrote that this ten feet will be of no benefit either to the Municipality, either to the public, but it will only disturb us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's already a road. So what more do they want? We're not blocking anything.

Prabhupāda: So...

Girirāja: Now the only thing is that they may ask for some type of compensation.

Prabhupāda: We shall give something to them, but we shall give.

Girirāja: Because technically, although there's no reason to it, but technically it is in their name right now.

Prabhupāda: We shall give whatever Rajda will settle with them.

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now people are taking our philosophy. So your mission also, preach in the same way. People will be benefited. The whole world is taking Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti... (BG 7.7). Preach this. People will take it. This knowledge is there in India, and they require to be educated with this knowledge, and we have tried little bit, and they are accepting. Why don't you do that? They have taken. I said, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. You worship Him." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. Why don't you teach this? Hm? You are not teaching this, that "Accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Always think of Him. Man-manāḥ. Become a devotee. Offer Him obeisances." Why don't you teach this? Hm? What is the difficulty?

Indian man (2): Excuse me. I could not follow.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you teach as Kṛṣṇa wants? It is a plain word. Why you are teaching something else?

Indian man (2): Hare Kṛṣṇa says you have to teach.

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But who is taking your message? It is not effective. But here you see. They have taken message. They have dedicate their life for Kṛṣṇa. You could not do so. The message must be effective. Otherwise, simply talking, what is the benefit?

Indian man (3): Swamiji, excuse me. I don't see any difference between the person to person.

Prabhupāda: There is difference. Cat and dog, there is difference. An intelligent man and a rascal is difference. There must be difference. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How you say there is no difference? A brāhmaṇa is brāhmaṇa. A kṣatriya is kṣatriya. Vaiśya is vaiśya. That is real understanding. If you say, "Everyone is brāhmaṇa," that's not good.

Indian man (3): But we have been told to see only one consciousness, one life, between indi...

Prabhupāda: That oneness is on the spiritual platform. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). That is another thing. But so long you have got a bodily concept of life, you must divide: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That is wanted. Just like in my body there is division. There is head. There is hand. There is leg. There is belly. So they have got different activities. The head is important. If you cut the head, then whole thing is finished.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have a taste for nim?

Prabhupāda: That is compulsory. Whatever little benefit is there in the leaf of nim... Still, I have got taste for nim begun(?). You like that? I think I shall take little, little milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Milk.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will give strength. Milk produce strength. And it is suitable for everyone: children, diseased, invalid, old men. It is such a nice food. Everyone in any condition can get some benefit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we're getting fairly good milk now.

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What shall I advise? I have no experience about this. You do. But this scientific film should not be done independently.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His reason for coming to India this time was to give you that film and to now make a film about India. He proposes to travel to holy places and festivals to show people engaged in the nine processes of devotional service. "My first immediate trip," he says, "would be to Trichur, Kerala, to show the Puram Festival, where thousands of people join in a procession through the streets. A Deity of Kṛṣṇa is carried on an elephant. At some of these big festivals there may be many non-Vaiṣṇavas. Is it all right to show these people? Or should we only show Vaiṣṇavas in this movie?"

Prabhupāda: No, no. But what will be the benefit of our taking photograph of other procession? There are so many processions like that. So what will be benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says his general idea is "to present and establish Kṛṣṇa as a factual personality and not just some mythical character." To do this, he wants "to show historical sites of His pastimes combined with paintings to illustrate Kṛṣṇa's birth, His Vṛndāvana, Mathurā and Dvārakā pastimes, speaking Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and His teachings as given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then we would show His, Kṛṣṇa's, teachings, how Kṛṣṇa's teachings were passed down..."

Prabhupāda: This is good.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, at the end he would like to get "a short statement by Your Divine Grace in the movie on the importance of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the world today. This film could, hopefully, be distributed to schools and colleges, showing that India is full of transcendental knowledge and that this knowledge is meant for the entire world for the benefit of all humanity."

Prabhupāda: That I am speaking of, that this, that this knowledge should not be kept locked up. That is my mission.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think this is an important movie to make, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the way he described it. He says in regard... He says, many people are approaching him with ideas for other films and he doesn't want to get misdirected, so he's mentioning to you. He says...

Prabhupāda: Whose idea is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says they've been requested by the various temples around our society to film Sudāmā Mahārāja's theater group playing "The Age of Kali" and, perhaps, other plays so that these films could be shown at Sunday feasts, because they can't have the theater group in every temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is good idea. Good idea.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say like that? And Kṛṣṇa says openly, mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do? This is all simply concoction. You cannot do anything.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

The nature's law will go on. You cannot make a poor man a rich man, unhappy man an happy man. That is not possible. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Can you make a hog eat halavā instead of stool? Can you make? By nature's way it is going on. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These are foolish person who concoct ideas. It is not possible. If you can do anything to the human society, induce him to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee.

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

(Bg 18.68)

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ

(BG 18.69)

Kṛṣṇa says. So Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). Teach people that "You take it." That is real benefit. Otherwise you cannot do anything.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what is beneficial, to preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is or adulterate it? Which is good? That is my point. Why should you talk of Bhagavad-gītā, adulterate? What is the benefit? And Kṛṣṇa says, naṣṭaḥ. (aside:) Bring Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo... (BG 4.2). You know that. Find out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupāda: How to understand Bhagavad-gītā? By the paramparā. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. (Hindi) The paramparā-sūtra says that... (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: Third Chapter...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fourth Chapter.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why he was selected? Bhakto 'si. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Without becoming kṛṣṇa-bhakta, what one will understand Bhagavad-gītā? A politician cannot understand. His motive is different. He cannot understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... Bhakta... How to become bhakta? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Kṛṣṇa says, "By bhakti one can understand." He never said, "By jñāna, karma, yoga..." No. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata... (BG 6.47). Eh? What is that? Antar-ātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo... So if you want to organize on that line, then it will be successful. Otherwise it is waste of time. That is real cooperation, that we must accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach as it is. Then people will be happy. Otherwise waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

Now, that is wanted. (Hindi) Those who lead the sevā-saṅga, they must learn how to do benefit to the people. They must practically assimilate, apply in their practical life, and teach others. Then it will be successful. There is no doubt. And the proof is here. In our foreign countries, they are foreigners. They are practicing different religious systems. Now, why they are taking to Kṛṣṇa con...? Millions of copies, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we are selling. Kṛṣṇa book, how many?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In Christmas festival they are performing Christmas festival and purchasing our book, Kṛṣṇa book. Now they have accepted this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is three thousand years old or some thousands of...

Kārttikeya: Five thousand.

Prabhupāda: No, thousands of years.

Kārttikeya: No, thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: So do something—the people will be benefited, actual. And the whole instruction is there. Then it will be success. Otherwise... Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12).

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is the definition of mahātmā, not that I create mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). (Hindi) This is mahātmā.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

That is mahātmā. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). The Mahatma Gandhi... (Hindi) Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. (Hindi) If you read Bhagavad-gītā, you must read properly, act properly. Then you'll get the benefit. If you manufacture your ideas-useless waste of time. (Hindi) Whether they'll tolerate? Boliye.

Mr. Dwivedi: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Whether they'll be able to digest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bitter. Bitter medicine.

Prabhupāda: Bitter pill.

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And who, nonsense, understands this? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This teaching... This is a teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. And they are taking Bhagavad-gītā for solving these problems. That's all. Ants' struggle. Violence, nonviolence and... So such big, big rascals are guiding us. What benefit they have given? And they are praised. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ... (SB 2.3.19).

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of.

Girirāja: Yeah. No, I agree completely. I mean, you're millions and billions of times greater than anyone, so there's no question...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, if one has no proper respect for a saintly person, he's useless man. You cannot have any benefit. Or neither he can derive any benefit.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From all sides.

Girirāja: Because he'll think he has nothing to learn, that he is already in the best position.

Prabhupāda: And we don't require any from, anything from them, but for the whole human society's welfare we can suggest him, "Do like this." That is our... But we don't require anything from them.

Girirāja: I know that. This is your...

Prabhupāda: Of course, sometimes we are in difficulty. We ask them something.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it's confirmed, anyway. Yeah, that's what that Rajneesh says. They asked him, "Why are you with so many women?" He said, "This is the proof, that I am able to be with all these women but not be disturbed." But that doesn't really answer why he's with them. Our point is: "Why are you with them? Never mind whether you're disturbed or... Why are you with them? What benefit are you getting? They are not God. So why are you spending so much time with them?"

Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone admits that this is luxurious, fifth floor of...

Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: This is marvelous. You give the real thing, and it will act. If you give false things, naṣṭa, so superficially it is (Sanskrit), but if it is spoiled, it will create disease. Our leaders, our politicians, our swamis and yogis, they have spoiled Bhagavad-gītā by misinterpretation. Then what benefit he'll derive? They are spoiling, and they are followers. Now whatever is done is done. You can reform it and again it will be all right. Now call, if there is any question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Indian man (2): Can one be a householder, I mean, with his normal worldly life, and at the same time be a...

Prabhupāda: First of all, what do you mean by householder?

Indian man (2): I mean continue the normal, occupation of one's...

Prabhupāda: Say me. Explain what is householder.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It will distribute India's glories. People will feel obliged to India, that "We have got this knowledge from India." Actually knowledge is here. There is no such knowledge all over the world.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Paropakāra. India is meant for paropakāra. India is not meant for exploiting others. But unfortunately the knowledge is... Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. We have got the store of knowledge, but we have kept it locked up, not distributed to the world. They are called jñāna-khala. One who has knowledge but he does not want to distribute it, that is, they are termed as jñāna-khala. So we should not be jñāna-khala. In India there is storehouse of spiritual knowledge, and every one of us should make our life successful by assimilating this knowledge and distribute all over the world. There is customer; there is appreciation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (Hindi) Why you should be jñāna-khala? Na sādhu manye. Jñāna should be distributed. The modern scientists also, they have... If they have discovered something new, they go and distribute for the benefit of the whole human society. Unfortunately we are distorting the knowledge in Bhagavad-gītā, interpreting in a different way according to my whims, and spoiling my life and others'. This process should be stopped. Present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You'll be benefited; others... Don't distort. That is our duty.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If you get the association of Kṛṣṇa, then you haven't got to come here, this material world. Duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam. Either you take birth in a very rich, aristocratic family, born in the upper planetary system as demigods-Brahmā, Indra, Candra, like that—or you take your birth, an insignificant ant; wherever you are in material body, it is duḥkhālayam. That you cannot avoid. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And you cannot make any compromise that "Never mind it is very much miserable. I shall enjoy." So that also will not be allowed. Aśāśvatam. Your tendency is to live forever. So that will not be allowed. Aśāśvata. So this requires knowledge, intelligence, that "If I am eternal," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), "I am not destroyed even this body is destroyed," then you should seek after eternal happiness. Why temporary? That is not in your interest. That happiness is there when you go back to Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. These are the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we do not try to understand the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, and if we theorize, "Bhagavad-gītā means nonviolence. Bhagavad-gītā means to become patriot," these are materialism. We should avoid this wrong interpretation, misguiding direction of blind leaders. We'll not get any benefit out of it.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think he can write.

Bhavānanda: He was out in Māyāpur about one month back.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Then you shall benefit. Gargamuni knows him. Make this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda knows him. Jayapatākā too.

Prabhupāda: He is nice man. Each property, trustee.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Asnani can also help.

Prabhupāda: Trustees appointed by me. That's all. That will save.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Trustees appointed by me. Each temple should have three trustees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they're appointed by you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are appointed... And the format is already there.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Inventory.

Rāmeśvara: Inventory, yes, inventory. Then "Section 2: Name of the Trust. This trust shall be known by the name..." So for each trust there's a different name. For Māyāpur it is proposed, "Śrī Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir Trust." For Bombay, "Śrī-Śrī-Rādhā-Rāsa-Vihārījī Temple Trust," for Vṛndāvana, "Śrī-Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir Trust," and that will include the Gurukula. For Bhuvaneśvara, "Śrī-Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Bhuvaneśvara Trust." It goes on to say, "In so far as possible, the trustees shall conduct the trust activities in that name. Section 3: The Purpose of the Trust. This trust is created and shall be operated exclusively for fulfilling the aims and objects of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as per the memorandum of association. ISKCON is registered as a society under the Society Act of 1860, and is registered as a public charitable trust. We direct that no part of this trust shall inure to the benefit of any private individual, and no part of the activities of this trust shall consist of participating in or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of any candidate for public office." Then "Section 4: The Use of the Trust. Irrevocably, the properties, the temple and the Deities thereupon and all other holdings of the trust shall never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred..."

Prabhupāda: Stole?

Rāmeśvara: "Sold."

Prabhupāda: Sold.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. You'll find, not find any medicine throughout the universe that you'll be benefited either you die or be... This is the only medicine. In both ways you are... The death is inevitable. You die today or tomorrow. So by taking this medicine, if you die, you have the greatest benefit. And if you live, enjoy. If you die, enjoy; if you live, enjoy. Go on chanting. (kīrtana) (break) No, I have no objection. (laughter) I am prepared in either way. What is that machine they keep? Husking machine?

Upendra: Asking machine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Husking machine.

Prabhupāda: That from paddy, rice is taken away by beating.

Bhavānanda: (whispering) That's the...

Prabhupāda: In your country there is no such thing.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Yes? Next person? (break) (Bengali) By passing wind if there is somebody benefit, they'll not pass. Such a low-grade man. Therefore they are ruined, those men. There is not a single upright. You cannot expect that they will willfully, willingly...

Jayapatākā: No, we'll get that by hook or by crook.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is only... Sathe sārthaṁ samācaret.(?) They are first-class cheater. We shall cheat them. (laughter) Don't worry. This is only... They have ruined the institution, all third-class, fourth-class men.

Jayapatākā: He knew that it was right. He couldn't deny it. But he has got no power to... No willpower.

Prabhupāda: No power? No, he has power. He'll not do. He has power.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, that's what I mean. He has got no personal character to do it.

Prabhupāda: No. He has power.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The meaning, that "I am taking this sannyāsa for the purpose of crossing over the ocean of nescience." Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭha, Bhagavān, Paramātmā. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa... So here are three daṇḍas. One daṇḍa, person. There are four daṇḍas. He is person, "I am." And the other three daṇḍa—my mind... Kāya manaḥ vākya: my mind, my body and my words. "So I dedicate my mind, my body and my activities, parātma-niṣṭha, only for the service of the Supreme. So being situated in that position, following..." Pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. It is not that I have introduced something new. All big, big ācāryas, they took sannyāsa for this preaching work-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya even. And that is pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow maharṣibhiḥ. So "All ācāryas of India, they have taken sannyāsa, so I am also taking sannyāsa. The business is parātma-niṣṭha." So what will be the benefit? Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram: "This ocean of nescience is duranta-pāram. It is very, very difficult to cross over. But I'll cross over." How? Tamaḥ. This is darkness, tamaḥ. Mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva: "Simply by serving the lotus feet of Mukunda." Mukunda means "one who can give liberation, mukti." Mukunda. So chant again this.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Separate cooking may be... (break) ...cannot. Simply they have... Every cheap people goes there. What they have done? Tell me that "This they have done, very beneficial to the human society." What they have done?

Śatadhanya: They say that they are curing disease.

Prabhupāda: Disease? So what is the benefit? One disease after another disease...

Śatadhanya: They say that the life-span is getting more years.

Prabhupāda: That is another bluff. Formerly people used to live very long. Actually in this Kali-yuga the limitation is one hundred years. But who is living one hundred years?

Śatadhanya: Even less.

Prabhupāda: Fifty, sixty... Average India, thirty-five years. In your country a little more. Nobody lives hundred years. That is also another bluff. But even if you live for hundred years, does it mean that you have stopped death? Then what is the benefit? You are eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are eternal, but why you are dying? What the scientists have done? Na jāyate na mriyate.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? Without radio, people were dying, or with radio they are not living?

Upendra: They say they are living more comfortably.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense comfortably... They have changed the season? Is it comfortable? We have to take this cooling machine. What is the practical benefit? You can say that it is comfortable. That's all right. But that does not mean that you have moved the uncomfortable situation. You are struggling against. That much you can take credit. Real benefit is not there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Real unhappiness is this, that you are: "Why I am struggling? I don't want death." Actually why I am taking massage and so on, so on? So that I may not die. So where is the scientists' guarantee, "No, you'll not die"? Has he any...? You'll struggle only. That's all. The scientists cannot guarantee, "No, you'll not die." That is real guarantee. "You'll die comfortably." Hm? Die comfortably? Now there is no appetite. Where is the scientist, assuring, "Take"? What actual benefit they have done? They are giving some... Nothing they have given. It is simply bluff. Things without which we could do, such things are there. There were no motorcars. There was horse carriage and bullock carriage. Things were going on. Not that without this horseless motorcar society would have been vanquished. No. There are other alternatives.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, Rādhā-vallabha. He's a great rascal. (pause) Read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation: Previously all the great sages rendered service unto the Personality of Godhead due to His existence above the three modes of material nature. They worshiped Him to become free from material conditions and thus derive the ultimate benefit. Whoever follows such great authorities is also eligible for liberation from the material world.

Purport: The purpose of performing religion is neither to profit by material gain nor to get the simple knowledge of discerning matter from spirit. The ultimate aim of religious performances is to release oneself from material bondage and regain the life of freedom in the transcendental world, where the Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Person. Laws of religion, therefore, are directly enacted by the Personality of Godhead, and except for the mahājanas, or the authorized agents of the Lord, no one knows the purpose of religion. There are twelve particular agents of the Lord who know the purpose of religion, and all of them render transcendental service unto Him. Persons who desire their own good may follow these mahājanas and thus attain the supreme benefit.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta... (SB 1.2.10).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmasya, sense gratification, required, but not for sense gratification's sake. It requires only for living comfortably. You try to make the economic development, that is all right. But they have taken simply for sense gratification. "I have got one car, and there must be another three cars for my children and wife." This is going on, kāma, increasing. Economic development... You require some occupational duty for earning your livelihood... That is allowed. But why more and more, more, more, more? For that, they are making scientific research how to satisfy senses. So kāmasya na indriya-prītiḥ. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature's hand. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). That is not in your hand. When the body will change, you cannot say, "No, no, I'll not change," because that is not under your dictation. So is not simply waste of time?

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are thinking that we are improving, but actually we are not solving the problems.

Śatadhanya: You said the other day that if we analyze what the scientists have done, we will see that they have actually done nothing beneficial, no benefit. Whatever they have done has no benefit, simply some comfort of the body. But what benefit it has?

Prabhupāda: Just like they have improved... A man is going to die. By oxygen, by other, other, he may live for a few minutes more. They say, "This is improvement."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's creating more problems.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we read from the Fifth Canto the facility of life is so much better on other planets, anyway, so they can't even begin to imitate that other higher material planets, what to speak of the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: They do. Karmīs do that. They want to go there after death. Therefore karma-kāṇḍa. By ritualistic ceremonies they want to be promoted. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). By improving the sattva-guṇa, you can go to higher planetary system.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.

Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Intelligent class. We cannot make them interested. Some of them may come out, but not all. It is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes wealthy people are afraid that if their sons come to this gurukula, they'll become sādhus.

Prabhupāda: So that I am seeing, how to... That was the problem. They said, "What will be the benefit, satyavādī?" Satya śamo damo titikṣa, jñāna... (Hindi) So culture is lost. That is the difficulty.

Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is... (Hindi) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Kṛṣṇa wants to impress in the beginning, na jāyate na mriyate vā. (Hindi) Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). (Hindi) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is... (Hindi) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...and mosques for some material benefit. Just like these Christians, "O God, give us our daily bread." We also go to temple. So that is apara. And para means when there will be no demand.

Surendra Kumar: No demand from God.

Prabhupāda: Simply to love Him. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is para. Our, this line is little difficult, because we are teaching paro dharma.

Surendra Kumar: That's what I was telling her all the time.

Prabhupāda: And the human form of life, this is the only business. This is the only business. But they do not know. They are after... They go to dharma for some material benefit. Dharmasya apavargasya.

Surendra Kumar: My sister says that "Unless and until God so wishes..."

Mrs. Kumar: How to leave this world?

Surendra Kumar: "...how to leave this material world?"

Prabhupāda: She'll leave in material... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo: (BG 18.66) "I shall deliver you." God gives you that. God is protecting actually. And without God's protection, you cannot live. But still more if you absolutely depend on Him. This is our organization. Here also duty, depending on Kṛṣṇa. At least ten to fifteen thousand men we are feeding daily. So how it is being done throughout the whole world? And everywhere opulence like this. We are not poverty-stricken. (Hindi) So simply depending... (Hindi)

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As it is convenient. But chanting with mouth is better. You can hear; others can hear. If you chant within, then you'll remember only. But you chant loudly, others can hear. Others are benefited. (japa)

Alice Coltrane: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She said, how many rounds should she chant? Every day she does some meditation, so before meditating, she wants to know, how many rounds should she chant?

Prabhupāda: Well, with chanting you can meditate. The Deities are there. So you can think of the Deities—that is meditation—and chant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there a certain number of rounds you would recommend for her?

Prabhupāda: That is minimum... Because these people are not accustomed, only sixteen rounds.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is why we say the stool, this side and that side... After all, it is stool. Somebody says, "This side is better than that side." Stool is stool when in this side or that side. That is going on. Guer ei pitaro(?). But they are so intelligent, they say, "No, no, this side is better. It has dried up." They are rascals like that. It is stool. It is untouchable. It is... On all side it is bad, but they are thinking, "This side..." This is their intelligence. What can I do? But if they consult us, they'll be benefited. We are not going to be prime minister or this minister, that... We kick out. We want to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no such ambition. So read books. Do things nicely. Serve Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. The direction is there, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: And we don't lack any material benefit. We have spiritual and material.

Prabhupāda: Who can live in such house? Royal. Royal palace. We have 102 royal palaces. More than that. So even from economic point of view nobody is happier than us. Nobody is happier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That New York building cost over one million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go I shall give you chance to see how my devotees are living happy in big, big houses. Big, big house. Do you think to possess a twelve-story house in New York is joke?

Vrindavan De: Even I cannot think of.

Prabhupāda: Is joke? We have got. In Detroit we have got a house which was constructed at the cost of six million dollars, fifty years ago. What is the price six million dollars?

Vrindavan De: Sixty lakhs.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Not just a business.

Prabhupāda: No. That is not my proposal. Why shall I engage you in business, karma-bandhana? That is not. If you can give little service, that is benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. They are doing without any personal profit. You are gṛhastha. You can take some profit. That's all. But it is service. Anyone who will give some service to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he'll make progress. Therefore I'm trying to engage everyone in this movement some way or other. A little help, svalpam api. It is such a nice thing. With that spirit you do and live comfortably. There is no question of unnecessarily taking a life of poverty-stricken. There is no necessity. But there is no necessity of luxurious life. And luxurious will already come for devotees. That I have already example. Who can live more luxuriously than ourself? Where is that? It is practical. All over the world we are living like princes. Princes even cannot live like that. All our devotees, and what to speak of myself? Six crores of rupees one house, who can possess? How many men there are in the world who has got many houses, each six crores of rupees? Hm? Bolo.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...actually what benefit to the human society? But technology, or high technology. Just like Indian technology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't see any benefit. I see that they only get trouble.

Prabhupāda: In India the caste system was very good. From the very beginning the children would learn the technology of their paternal. Just like potter. You'll see the children of the potter, they are also making a small bird, a small fruit, and they would be sold. A small playing utensils-small glass, small plate—they're also sold. Other children would purchase. The whole family used to earn something. Nowadays they're sent to school, wasting time, and then unemployment and idle brain. What is the use of sending a potter's son to school?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, everything he needs to know, he can learn at home.

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They were also happy. They were also religious, according to their own way. Within, say, seventy years so much change has taken place. Horrible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any valuable, any benefits that took place? Any good things? Only...

Prabhupāda: Change, change for the worse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think even in America things were better.

Prabhupāda: There things are changing fast.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we keep on going strong.

Prabhupāda: Every middle-class man could hold some festival, and society feast very occasionally. Now cannot, they cannot even receive a guest.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not government. Just see to the head of the government, that Bose? He's planning how to cut down religious movement, keeping aside.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like a little foot massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. (pause) We read from Bhāgavatam they held meeting that "We must shift from this place. The demons are disturbing. For the benefit of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma we must change this place." So the meeting was held in the morning, and they decided, "Let us immediately leave." So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long did it take them to shift?

Prabhupāda: Just hearing, adyaiva, today, and immediately began. So how simple living was.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they could shift in one day they must have lived so simple.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this Mr. Myer. He has to go flying down to Madras, close his account, do this, do this. How complicated life has become. And they were householders.

Prabhupāda: And they shifted very organizedly. The cows, tuck bag, then the guards with bows and arrows, then old men, women, children in carts.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And plus, the temples make money also. It's a new source of income for the temples. And if we don't do it, the karmīs are doing it in any case.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do exactly like karmīs, but not for us. For Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Same thing we are doing. Therefore these Māyāvādī cannot understand. "Again form?" The example is just like a man like me, he's diseased, he's suffering. And when they say, "Mother Yaśodās' crying," "So again crying?" He does not know what is this crying. He thinks this crying and that crying the same. Therefore Māyāvādī. They want to make it zero—no crying. But we take it a great blessing, crying for Kṛṣṇa. But they cannot understand. They say, "Again crying? Then what is the benefit?" And this is māyā. You understand? This is the simple understanding of Māyāvāda. As soon as there is crying, they say, "Oh, it is māyā. No crying." Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Crying is a great transcendental pleasure. That they cannot understand, the poor fund of knowledge. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was simply crying. That is love. So that they do not understand, how crying can be pleasure. That is Māyāvāda. All right.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can go directly from London to Los Angel...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, I think there is a direct flight.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In terms of time? You mean flight time instead of stopping in New York, what is the benefit of flying direct? Just the landing time in New York you save. The flight is pretty much the same. You save at least an hour to an hour and a half, two hours. Because when the flight goes from London to New York, when it first hits America, it hits America north of Canada practically, and then they go down the eastern seaboard. It hits Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and then it goes south down Massachusetts, like that, Connecticut, and then to New York.

Prabhupāda: But it does not stop.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The tradition began long, long ago. The message of the scriptures was recorded by Śrīla Vyāsadeva in order to benefit men living in the present age. This historic event is even mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..." (break)

Pranavdas Gupta: ...calculated is 1st September, 1896. The date is here. See the old calendar of..., that is Samvat 1953.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pranavdas Gupta: The Samvat comes... Because when the date is 1896 we have to add fifty-seven years, because when we want to get samvat, then we have to add fifty-seven years. So then we add fifty-seven years it comes 1953. Then he took out the very, very old man, (?) and I saw that, that he took out that calendar, and pañcama, and then he calculated. He saw this. And I told him that "We can look at the date. I don't know exactly what the date is, but just following Janmāṣṭamī." No. Day I did not disclose. Then he said... Then he saw after Janmāṣṭamī that's navamī. Then he said, "The day is Tuesday." I knew the day is Tuesday. "That's correct." Then what is the date? And he said, "First September." When we look here if it is 1st September then that must be adit-masa(?) also, because we are getting Janmāṣṭamī 6th September. That year also it must be adit-masa(?). He said yes. Then he saw there were Jyeṣṭha, at that time, Jyeṣṭha or Asadhar. That was adit-masa(?) He saw in your pañcama. Then he prepared all these things. Then he said according to rasi... "Do you know his name?" I said, "No, name I don't remember," because I am not to disclose anything...

Prabhupāda: I'll tell you, therefore, "Let him ask." (?)

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gītā propaganda, there are many persons. But if you don't mind, all these men, they do not understand what is real meaning of Gītā.

Governor: Once, three men that come here, back in Madras. So I arranged with our government libraries to have all your books in our libraries there.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Gītā should be accepted as it is. It should not be interpreted. Then there will be no benefit. And that has become... (Hindi) Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). That is Gītā. It is not meant for the loafer class. It is meant for the rājarṣis. Rājarṣayo viduḥ.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So unless the high government officials, rājarṣis, they understand properly Bhagavad-gītā, we cannot derive any benefit from Gītā. It is not a question of interpretation.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? There are millions of wombs. Why you should hire? If there is scarcity of womb, then we can hire. You rascal, you hire. You do not know. We see, without hiring there are millions of wombs, and they are producing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that they can do it.

Gurukṛpa: They haven't done it yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Among animals that evolved on this planet, man is the only animal that has progressed in all his activities. This he achieved through his knowledge in science. While all organisms continue to live even today as their forebears did millions of years ago, man alone has progressed..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are uncivilized men. Without any knowledge they can produce children. Do they have any scientific knowledge? How they are producing children? The same man, the same woman, the same child. What is the difference?

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Have you invented something that man will not die? Then it is approved. They are dying. You have given facilities to die earlier. That is atomic energy. There is no energy which can save him—"No more death." Is that improvement? By nature one dies natural death, and you have accelerated-many millions of people can be killed by this atomic weapon. So what is your achievement? Save millions of people.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Mentally deranged intellectuals are capable of expatiating on their hallucinations."

Prabhupāda: So who is mentally deranged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says we are. He says, "And they often become founders and preachers of diverse types of religious cults."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. But before taking up work, let them finish one. Let us see how it looks. Okay.

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like some mint tea now? I have the mint tea, that podina chāy.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Upendra: It's... You might like the taste, and it's very simple. It's not complicated or anything, certainly not mucus-forming, and it's cooling and refreshing to drink. It's just a nice drink and very simple.

Prabhupāda: So, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Plain.

Devotees: Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regular strawberries. Just now?

Prabhupāda: Later on, little. What is the benefit of strawberry?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the benefit of strawberry?

Abhirāma: They're like grapes, similar.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know the benefit of strawberries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What nutritional benefit does strawberry give? Tejiyas says they have sugar in them, so it gives good energy.

Prabhupāda: Where is Tejiyas?

Hari-śauri: Right here, at the bed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are coming from Hyderabad?

Tejiyas: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you should continue to try, and that Kṛṣṇa will help you, because we all want you. The whole world wants you very much, and there's no reason why Kṛṣṇa cannot do this. If we remain determined, then Kṛṣṇa will surely fulfill our desires. We're not desiring it for any selfish reason that you should live. We're desiring for the benefit of the whole world. There's every reason to continue to try and make the effort to remain.

Prabhupāda: So something to eat. What shall I eat?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Something liquid. (whispering among disciples)

Kīrtanānanda: (aside:) Three hours later. (whispering among disciples)

Prabhupāda: They cannot come for three days. Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many are coming for three days, except a few. From Agra I expect about fifty, and from Mathurā there will be about fifteen to twenty, and from Delhi I expect about thirty for tomorrow. Then, on Saturday, Sunday... Sunday is going to be... Everybody's coming on Sunday, whomever I invited. Because in Delhi, schools and colleges are still going on.

Prabhupāda: Fifty, fifty.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Māyāpur is wonderful at the winter season.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You get the benefit of the winter sun, which is tremendously healing in its effect.

Prabhupāda: In November, December, January, February.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you once said to us that if one sits for some time in the winter sun, he'll never get sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's useless. There's no benefit in Airbuses. The seats are the same in Airbus. There's no first class.

Bhavānanda: When you're feeling stronger, then the veranda is there for nice stroll.

Prabhupāda: There is ample space.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think change is good also sometimes. So we should make that program?

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, traveling with you is a great pleasure for us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's always very exciting to travel with you.

Prabhupāda: And in Māyāpur, if you keep me in my quarters, and take little care, that's all. Take little care, that's all.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What treatment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that this Vanamali Prabhu, he has made this medicine. So why not find out what is this medicine from him and you can take that in the meantime. He's made this medicine, Vanamali.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to him, this is makara-dhvaja. I mean, I don't discount that this may be Makara-dhvaja. I am not rejecting it simply on the word of that Rāmānujī kavirāja who was here. Otherwise, then we simply wait for the makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: That we'll do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I'm always remembering your words, "Some husband must be there."

Prabhupāda: Wait for the husband.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Never mind. We have got big establishment and our, these European and American young boys, they have been trained up. Otherwise, how could I manage? We have nothing to do with politics. Rather, we are giving social service. What we'll do, politics? It is not our business. There are so many people. So the government should give us chance to organize a society for the highest benefit of human being. And they can see from our books what is our idea. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...printing books and exporting these books, and this way we're earning so much foreign exchange for the Indian economy. They liked it.

Prabhupāda: Did you show them the invoice of what book already we have got?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him the amount.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but... I mean just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don't have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there's so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can't see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kavirāja is going to come. I have faith in Śatadhanya Mahārāja. I think this is simply Kṛṣṇa's test for him. I think the kavirāja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kavirāja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you...

Prabhupāda: (?) Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So we must charge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if we charge, they're going to speak nonsense. If we don't mind speaking nonsense, then it's all right. Otherwise, just like Shubhalakshmi, she may want to give some concert in our hall as a benefit. But she's going to simply sing nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhavānanda? Where is Bhavānanda?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, if they pay, we shall allow?

Bhavānanda: I don't think so, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning, in the Bhāgavata class, we read a verse how Bali Mahārāja had been awarded all material opulences by the Lord—because of his devotion, not because of his puṇya. So I gave lecture to the devotees—in the same way Your Divine Grace, because of your devotion and preaching, Kṛṣṇa has given you every facility for propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and although there are other nice movements in India, actually they should all join you. They should all surrender to you. We want that everyone should actually join us at your lotus feet because you have actually been given all śakti by Lord Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe tāra pravartana. So I told the devotees like this. "Do not be misled by others, even though they may be appearing to do nice work." Actually you are the only one who is really distributing the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is very obvious by the result. These others have not made even one foreign disciple. And if they did make one, he could not give up smoking, drinking and this and that. So there is no benefit whatsoever. Any intelligent person can see. Plus you have given us so much nectar. Prahlāda Mahārāja says mahāmṛta. I always think of that verse. You have given us so much nectar to absorb our minds in. There is really no chance that we will be influenced by these dry personalities.

Prabhupāda: Now you take up seriously and distribute. (aside:) It has finished.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What does he say? They will kill?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja to the hospital," still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow, even at the risk of our life. So we are not going to take you to the hospital under any condition. Neither... Not only is it your order, but we also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these allopathic doctors.

Prabhupāda: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches chant, I'll hear. (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana may be stopped now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop for a while now. For the rest of the night it's good if there's... (kīrtana stops) The kavirāja's assistant came this evening. We hadn't called him. I think he came on his own. He wanted to see how you were. I didn't think there was so much need for him to see you. He's not so senior a man. And the medicine is already prescribed, so what would be the benefit of his coming? We're not going to allow him to change the medicine, so I felt there was no real need. We can... Bhakti-caru Mahārāja spoke with him, gave him report of how you are.

Prabhupāda: He is also educated?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't really know, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how far he's educated.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's very nicely done. People who go there bank with confidence.

Prabhupāda: And they are getting benefit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It was the proper bank to have there. And because it's right on the ground floor and just near the entrance of the gate, people don't mind coming from the outside. And I've noticed people, after they come and do their banking business, they go for darśana.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe our Deity will get known that people who bank in our bank, they get more money. (laughs) I think the I.O.B. is thinking like that, that to be connected with the Deity is very auspicious, so they're accentuating the involvement with ISKCON and Your Divine Grace and Rādhā-Rasabehari.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.