Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much. If a sannyāsī comes to your village or to a householder's house it was very... Still it is going on, although not so widely. But still 80% of the population in India, if they find out a sannyāsī they give all honor. So He decided that "Now I shall become a sannyāsī." So He happened to see Keśava Bhāratī, a sannyāsī of the Śaṅkara sampradāya, and He requested him that "You give Me sannyāsa." So He took sannyāsa from Keśava Bhāratī and He was assisted by Nityānanda, Murāri Gupta, and some other people. So this is His renunciation decision and acceptance of sannyāsa.
Beating (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So śaśan ke adhikārī means they should be punished. (laughs) Punished means, just like dhol, when the, I mean to say, sound is not very hard, dag-dag, if you beat it on the border, then it comes to be nice tune. Similarly, paśu, animals, if you request, "My dear dog, please do not go there." Hut! (laughter) "No, my dear dog." Hut! This is the way.(?) Similarly, woman. If you become lenient, then she will be troublesome. So in India still, in villages, whenever there is some quarrel between husband wife, the husband beats and she is tamed. (laughs) In civilized society, "Oh, you have done this?" Immediately some criminal case. But in uncivilized society they don't care for court or civilized way of... Kicharī. (prasādam being served)
Rayarama: Swamiji, Janārdana told me that from Vedic sources, you drew some conclusion that there are different universes visible? The stars are different universes? What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. It may be understood that he was Śeṣa, but that was the incident. And another incident is that when He was just walking... So it is the system that small children, they are decorated with ornaments here, here, bangle, so many ornaments, here. So one thief saw that... He stole away the child. So he was seeking some secret place, lonely place, so that he can rob of... In this way seeking, seeking, he traveled, and at last he came just in front of the house, and he dropped the child, that "Somebody may see that I have taken this child. Then I'll be beaten, I will be caught." So out of fear he fled away. And the guardians, ladies, they were very much anxious, "Who has taken the child? He was with ornaments." But they saw that the child is there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enjoyed for some time on the shoulder of the thief.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: By bugle announcement. In your country, I do not know, maybe. It is here in India still existing that if some public announcement has to be done, one takes a drum or bugle, he stands in one place and bugles or beats the drum, people when gathered they announce something that "This will be done. This is the order of the king or the state." Is there any such system in England?
Śyāmasundara: Formerly there was.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Formerly there was. A town crier.
Prabhupāda: Trumpeting.
Śyāmasundara: They call it town crier.
Prabhupāda: Town crier, yes, yes.
Bob: Yeah. It loses some maybe transcendentalism through the amplifier.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Ask them to make it softer. So scientist means one who knows things as they are. That is scientist. So Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) (break) So just like your daughter, she was also... I was little older, so I was beating her like anything. (laughter) (pause) So Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive.
Bob: All-attractive.
Prabhupāda: All-attractive.
Bob: All-attractive.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So unless God becomes all-attractive, how He can become God? (pause) A man is important when he's attractive. Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) ...if you don't undergo voluntary austerity, you must be forced to undergo...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) That is the difference between man and animal. Animal cannot accept austerity. But man can accept austerity. That is the difference between. Just like there is a nice foodstuff in a confectioner's shop. So a man wants to eat it, but he sees that he has no money. So he can restrain. But an animal, cow comes, immediately he pushes his mouth in that. You can beat him with stick, it will tolerate, but it will do that. Therefore, animal cannot undergo austerity. (Someone else speaks inaudibly about volume of loudspeakers) Yes, yes, reduce. (break) Our austerity is very nice. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and Kṛṣṇa sends nice foodstuff, we eat. That's all. Why your people are not agreeable to such kind of austerities? Chanting, dancing, and eating nicely? (indistinct) I see austerity, call my mother.
Yadubara: Many other societies make compromises. Many other religious groups make compromises in their doctrine.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they have no clear idea. They cannot push forward their concept. Just like the other day (indistinct) lady, she asked if Kṛṣṇa was a naughty boy. Yes, because He is God He must be naughty boy. Otherwise, wherefrom this idea of naughty boy comes if that quality is not in God? God is the origin of everything, creator of everything. So if He hasn't got this naughtiness in His person, then how this thing comes to be? That is the Vedānta version, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is that from which or from whom everything emanates. So wherefrom this naughtiness comes if it is not in the person of God? Wherefrom this stealing propensity comes if it is not in God? But because He is absolute, His stealing is also as good as his blessing. Mākhan-cora. Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter, that is worshiped, mākhana, by the very name. Just like in another temple, Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha. Gopīnātha is known as condensed milk thief, Kṣīra-cora. He is famous by the name cora, thief. But that cora and this cora, you cannot compare. He is famous as cora, or thief, but thousands of people go every day to worship that cora, that thief. And in the material, if one is known as thief, then thousands of people will beat him with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. If you say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa was a thief, then I can become a thief," then your will be beating of shoes on your head, and Kṛṣṇa will be eternally worshiped because He is thief. That is the difference. That is Absolute. He will be worshiped as thief, and He will be worshiped as very honest. That is Absolute. (aside:) No, no, this (indistinct) is not good. I will take little fruit.
Dr. Kapoor: They are beating Indians. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I simply advise them that you regularly chant the sixteen rounds. Not more, you cannot make... You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But there must be one saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna. They are observing that and the regulative principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. And they are following other instructions, so they are wonderfully.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: I just want to say one thing, that this, then I'll leave because this is a meeting of the management here, but I saw the boy after he was beaten, and as far as I'm concerned that was very...
Prabhupāda: That I have (indistinct) later. (to someone else?)
Hayagrīva: That was very cruel, it looked very cruel to me. It looked like he was beaten with boards. It looked criminal. So, I don't think uh, if it happened to me I would sue. If that happened to me. The boy's eye could be put out. That's not good, under any circumstance.
Prabhupāda: That we are discussing. That was not a very (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: The whole thing is that we're sort of at a crisis in India, in terms of our presence here. Our prestige has hit an all-time low simply because of our conduct, that's all. Not because of our teaching, or because we are white, or anything like that. It's just because of our conduct. It's been so bad. Abominable. We don't in any way compare with the Indian sannyāsīs in our conduct. So how can we expect to honor Śrīla Prabhupāda if we conduct ourselves like that? So it's part of our responsibilities as the leaders not to avoid it, not to avoid the other devotees, but to train them now, begin training them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask, "When is he coming?" (indistinct). As soon as (indistinct), immediately I ask. So there may be more (indistinct), but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is slipping, the kīrtana is going on (indistinct) morning, (indistinct) is going on. So he maybe said that if you sleep like that then you cannot do it.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kalidasa?
Prabhupāda: Dr. Kalidasa-nama. Did you hear his name?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only just now.
Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, history.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't mat... Therefore they're all madmen. You can speak in your own way. I'll speak in my own way and another fool thinks that both of them are scientists. They do not agree. Still he's scientist. Just see. Cheaters and the cheated. Somebody's cheating and somebody's becoming cheated. The whole society's the combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. I see both of them, they do not agree. Just like they have rejected religion because two religionists, they do not agree. So why not these rascal scientists? They do not agree. Just see. They are so fool. But still they are after that. Their modern people they have rejected religion because they say that one religionist does not agree with another religionist. So there is no... Skepticism. So why not about the scientists? Just see. Everywhere you will find contradiction. Therefore anyone... and we are find out this contradiction because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Others cannot find out. We are challenging scientists, philosophers, although we are teeny person, because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, who is detecting their follies? Nobody. The scientist's follies, the philosopher follies, their contradiction... A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. We have got simple formulas in the śāstras. Simply on the basis of those formulas... Whole Vedic literature is like that. Just like Āyurveda, Āyurveda or astrology. Everything is like that. Āyurveda, the medicine. They have to learn only the beating of the pulse. If one becomes expert in which way the pulse beating is going on... They have got example. Just like some birds jump over like this. Some bird goes like this. So they have got example how the pulse is beating, jumping or easily going. So the symptoms, if one can study, he becomes physician, first-class. Immediately. Because as soon as he can study the pulse, how it is beating, in which way... That is, that requires little experience. Then immediately the formula is that if the pulse is beating in this way, then these symptoms will be there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know. He was beaten or something. They said he missed something.
Prabhupāda: That's like you, chemist, just missing something, "In future we shall do it." It is the same thing. And these fools, Dr. Radhakrishnan and company, they are so fools that so many animals they are walking on the sea, "I am going to see another man." Just see, how they are fools. What is their credit? The sea lark. They call sea lark? They go very nicely. Why do they not see that? He is animal, he is, another is an animal.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Birds can float and they can fly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So Dr. Radhakrishnan was a big rascal.
Prabhupāda: Oh, He used that part. He has found out. The rascal. Beat with shoes, that what "Christian, Christ could not find out, you have found out. You are so great. Thank you very much. You are more intelligent than Christ. Oh. So why Bible. Why not write your Bible? Let us follow."
Paramahaṁsa: Generally there are now something like 451 different translations. Just like the Gītā. They interpret in so many ways.
Prabhupāda: No Gītā, or... Many translations, but the original Gītā is perfect.
Prabhupāda: The head of the administration is Nixon, and the activities is killing and throwing the grains in the sea. And they are civilized. Just see. Where is civilization? They have no common sense even.
David Lawrence: The thing is the economic system now runs the heart. The heart is not allowed to beat in the right way. It's completely controlled.
Prabhupāda: It is a soul-killing civilization. We have to fight against it, to save at least a few men. So you are thoughtful young man. You try to understand this philosophy, and you try to spread. You have got good field for teaching students.
David Lawrence: I feel that students need to be able to see that somebody who is God conscious can really, really enjoy life.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Certainly. That is life. This is not life. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Life means with high qualities. So one who is not God conscious, they cannot have any good qualities. It is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. He's simply hovering on the mental plane. Asati dhāvato bahiḥ. And he has to come to these non-permanent things, material things. Asati. Asati mā sad gama. The Vedic injunction is, "Don't stick to this asat. Try to come to the sat, eternal." Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are the... "Don't remain in the darkness. Come to the light."
Prabhupāda: ...what kind of service we shall give? I can give you one example. I have seen it practically, that in Calcutta one neighbor, neighboring gentleman, he is (has) a daughter-in-law, he (she) was beating her young son. So I inquired, "Why that daughter-in-law...?" Because her father-in-law was of my age, little older. "So why daughter-in-law is punishing her son? What is the fault?" Naturally, young, a small child. So the report came that the, one of the child, one of the boy, was suffering from typhoid, fever, and another boy stole from the kitchen some parāṭā and gave him to eat. And when the mother came into knowledge, she was punishing, that "Why you have given this parāṭā?" Because in typhoid, no solid food is taken. So he cannot... But the suffering child was thinking that "Mother is not giving me food." So he requested his younger brother, "You give me some food." So he does not know. He has given the food. But the result is that he is being punished. So without knowing how to give service, sometimes we may be punished. What kind of service we shall give? (indistinct) example. So there are three kinds of services: goodness, passion, and ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Then... (break) ...We have not very many followers because we disagree with all rascals. We are not rascal. (break) Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na sāntāya (?). Mūrkha upadeśa... (Hindi) If you give some lessons to the rascal, he becomes angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you ask a serpent, "Sir, you don't bite anyone, you take your here, milk, (indistinct)," the result will be he'll increase his venomous poison, and one day—"Phansss." (Sound imitating biting) You know the story? The kuta..., (?) the wood-cutter and the snake. He found a snake... Snake, if it is not killed, then if you simply beat and becomes dead, again he revives life. You know that?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: These are the processes to become perfect. Tapasā. First thing is tapasya. And nobody's prepared to undergo tapasya. And human life is made for tapasya. Therefore in Vedic civilization, you'll find tapasya. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, they were all engaged in tapasya. Rājarṣi, devarṣi. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, at the age of twenty-four years, he gave up his young wife, children, and went for tapasya. Tapasya is the life of the human being. Not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Restrained. Tapasya. But here there is no, at the present moment, there is no question of tapasya. Even one is ninety years old, he's still engaged in these material activities. Even a person like Gandhi, unless he was killed, he would not give up politics. The material activities are so palatable for the materialists, that even up to the point of death... In Bengal, there was a big zamindar. So his father, er, his sons asked him at the time of death, "Father, what we can do for you, last desires?" So he expressed that "That man is my enemy. If you can bring him here and beat him with shoes, I'll be very much satisfied." This is material world. Even at the time of death, he's thinking enmity with others. And he will, he wanted to be happy that "If you bring that man and beat him with shoes, I'll be very happy." The other day somebody said that one man was cut into two, and he was asked, "What do you want?" He said, "Give me a cigarette." (laughter) This is the position.
Prabhupāda: Only the criminal. And he'll be punished, that's all. The result, he'll be punished. Beaten with the shoes of policeman, that's all.
Karandhara: Some people get away with it.
Prabhupāda: For some time he'll get away. You can get away from the police custody, but you cannot get away from māyā's custody. That is not possible.
Karandhara: But because in all material examples there are exceptions, they say. In all material examples there are exceptions, so they try to find that exception.
Prabhupāda: Many exceptions are there, mām eva ye prapadyante. Those who are devotee, they are not under māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not violate the laws of God... (break) ...there is no question of being... (break)...by māyā. If you surrender... (break) ...ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). (break) ...if the government protects everyone who is surrendered to the laws of the God, government. The government will give all protection. If he is a law-abiding citizen, he must be given protection, all protection.
Prabhupāda: So by argument, one will say, "How is that? Sometimes you say that stool is impure, and again you say this stool is pure." But that is fact. Similarly, if we accept Vedic injunction, we save so much time for so-called research work. That is the standard knowledge. So every knowledge is there in the Vedas. There are so many Vedas. Even for our ordinary dealings, just like Āyur-veda. Āyur-veda means medical science. Similarly, Dhanur-veda, military science. Similarly, Jyotir-veda, jyotis, the astronomical science. And those who are, mean, accustomed with Vedic knowledge, it is so nice and, I mean to say, perfect that... Take, for example, that Āyur-veda, medical science. Their process is that this body, the physiological condition, is depending on three things, tri-dhātu, kapha-pitta-vāyu: mucus, bile and air. And the air is felt by the pulse beating. So they learn how to examine the pulse beating, the heart beating. And they have got description. Just like the sparrow walks, the crow walks, so in this way they have given the example, "If the pulse is beating like the walking of the sparrow, walking of the crow, then his health, his condition, is like this, and the symptoms will be like this." So the physician first of all studies the pulses, and he remembers the symptoms, and he corroborates, asking the patient, "Do you feel like this? Do you feel like this? Do you do this, like this?" If it is corroborated, then his diagnosis is given: "He has got this disease."
Govardhana: That shows that because he was not in the constant association of devotees that he lost those qualities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. So why did you not arrest him and give to the police?
Govardhana: We did. We beat him. Then we took him to court and had him put in jail for three months.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yes.
Govardhana: But how is it that he was coming and becoming enthusiastic about Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: ...coming, but he was interrupted by another rascal. He was advised by another rascal.
Govardhana: So one has to guard against being interrupted in that way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the first thing is that you, this, "You shall not eat meat, you shall not do this, do that, do this..." People are generally sinful, especially in the Western countries, because they are all addicted to these habits. So he can be polluted very soon. Very soon he can be polluted. He's prone to pollutions by nature.
Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." So what can be done? "We don't care for the government." Just like Gandhi started civil disobedience movement, disobedience to the government laws, but all the whole stock was put into jail and they were beaten with shoes. But still, they said, "No, we are..." This is an example. Similarly, everyone is obeying, surrendering to God. But because they are rascal and fools, they are denying that we have surrendered. This is their position, madness. nobody can stay without surrendering to God. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then let us analyze, analyze. Let us analyze. That... We say that God means Supreme, Supreme Being. So how you can say that Supreme Being is an idea? How you can say? You accept Supreme Being. So how you can say it is idea? It is fact.
Karandhara: Well, they say there is no necessity for a Supreme Being.
Prabhupāda: No, there's a necessity. If you don't accept, then you will be beaten with shoes. Because as soon as there is light, you have to accept supreme authority.
Karandhara: But that's an authority we have imposed upon ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because there is need, therefore you have done it. There is necessity.
Karandhara: Well, some of them say, because people are generally ignorant, therefore we need this idea of God.
Prabhupāda: But you are less than ignorant. You are less than ignorant. You are less than rascal. If I call you a rascal, then I give you some honor.
Prabhupāda: Then my meaning is to beat you with shoes. (laughter)
Karandhara: Lenin, no one ever beat him. He was not beat. He beat everyone else.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He was also beaten—by death. He died also. That means even if he is beaten, he will not accept it. He is such a rascal. He is such a rascal. He is being beaten every moment. He is becoming old. He is becoming diseased. He is dying. Still says, "I am not beaten. I am not beaten."
Candanācārya: Actually, he still thinks that he's beating death because they put his body in a tomb...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is being beaten every moment, every second, and still, he will say, "I am not beaten." That is rascal number one. One is accepting that "Yes, I am being beaten." He is sane man. And one who says that "I am not beaten," he is getting old, and every moment he is being beaten, and still he says, "I am not beaten."
Karandhara: Well they have a philosophy called existentialism, that so long something exists, we can place value on it, but when it ceases to exist, there is no remorse. There is nothing to lament.
Prabhupāda: There is no nothing to lament, but why don't you exist? Why you struggle for existence?
Karandhara: But they say if you have money in your hand, as long as you have it you can utilize it, but if you lose it, don't worry. It's nothing to lament.
Prabhupāda: But they worry. I have practically seen. They cry.
Prabhupāda: That means it doesn't matter... If I beat you with shoes, it doesn't matter? Why do you become angry?
Karandhara: Well, it doesn't matter that I become angry.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) So let me beat you. You don't become angry or become angry, I don't care.
Karandhara: Well, they say, "That's going on anyway."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That... This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, "My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa. I have given you." "Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same." "Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth." That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, "Well, this is also earth, this is also... Why...? The pot is not required. Put water here." Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. (break) ...and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. (break) ...The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, "There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash.
Prabhupāda: That means it doesn't matter... If I beat you with shoes, it doesn't matter? Why do you become angry?
Karandhara: Well, it doesn't matter that I become angry.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) So let me beat you. You don't become angry or become angry, I don't care.
Karandhara: Well, they say, "That's going on anyway."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That... This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, "My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa. I have given you." "Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same." "Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth." That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, "Well, this is also earth, this is also... Why...? The pot is not required. Put water here." Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. (break) ...and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. (break) ...The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, "There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then why he should not become dog? Become yaṁ yaṁ vāpi... He has great love for dog, and it is said that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajati (BG 8.6), at the time of death, he will think of dog and he will become dog. This is...
Yaśodānandana: One time I asked one Indian man, "Why is it that people beat the dogs in India?" He says, "Because the English people were ruling for so long. Now they have taken birth as dogs. We beat them."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America taking care of the dogs and cats is a very big business. It's a very big business.
Karandhara: They even have cemeteries.
Candanācārya: They buy ten thousand dollar necklace for their dog.
Prabhupāda: Just see how much attracted.
Candanācārya: Yes, when they die, they leave all their money to the dog.
Prabhupāda: So why they refuse to become a dog? Why they refuse to become a dog?
Karandhara: Some of them would like to become.
Umāpati: Some of them think dogs and cats are more intelligent than people.
Prabhupāda: Intelligent, ant is also intelligent than any human being. So they live within the hole of wall, and there is no scarcity. Can you become like that? You live within your apartment and there is no scarcity. Wherefrom he gets food? They are more intelligent than human being. Everyone has got some specific talent, either human being or cats and dogs or ants, everyone. Just like the vultures, they go four miles, five miles above and they can find out where is a corpse, where is a dead body. But you cannot do that. You see? Immediately pounce on it. Hundreds of vulture will come. Did you not see it? So they are intelligent more than human being.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is foolish, another foolishness. That is... "You are beating me with your shoes. That's all right, it is temporary. That's all right. Let me go on suffering this." So that is foolishness. He does not think that "Why I have been subjected to be beaten by shoes, insult? All right, I do not mind. It is temporary." That is foolishness.
Nitāi: Well, they think that instead of being beaten that they're having fun, that it's pleasurable.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless he's...
Nitāi: They think, "Let us have all the pleasure we can."
Prabhupāda: That is another māyā's illusion. Unless he thinks it is pleasurable, how he can tolerate? Just like the pig, eating stool. Everyone is thinking, "Aoww", but unless he thinks pleasurable, how he can eat? That is another concession of māyā. Praksepātmikā, āvaraṇātmikā. He's covered by illusion. He is accepting the most abominable thing, but he's thinking, "I'm enjoying." This is called māyā.
Prabhupāda: You see? So, teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate: "Their gain is simply their trying for, that labor." Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām: "It is exactly like one is beating the husk."
Mr. Sar: Yes, and not getting that thing.
Prabhupāda: There is no rice...
Mr. Sar: No rice even.
Prabhupāda: Simply "gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad."
Mr. Sar: "Gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. So these impersonalists, they are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, but the method is not very good.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I think...
Guest (2): She printed a photo in the London papers also and challenged that "I can beat any computers in the western world." (break)
Guest (1): Under one high-court?
Prabhupāda: Under one high-court, yes.
Guest (2): Āśrama (?) also.
Guest (1): Asambala. (?)
Prabhupāda: Hmmm? Yes.
Guest (3): (Bengali) (break)
Guest (2): During the festival days...,
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any child, if you ask him, "My dear child, what is this?" He'll say, "It is hand." "What is this?" "It is head." "What is this?" "Leg." Does he say, "All body"? You are speaking like that.
Dr. Patel: Like... How shall I speak? Shall I beat your body?
Prabhupāda: No, no. (laughter) Don't speak.
Dr. Patel: Where is the right way?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Any gentleman says... It is right? If I ask a child, "What is this?" What he'll say? "It is hand." Will he say, "It is head"? Then? You are speaking like less than a child.
Dr. Patel: That is what I am.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, Mr. Sar!
Dr. Patel: No, he will not say anything because he's a baniya (?). He'll reserve his opinion.
Guest (4) (Indian man): To answer the scripture... (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Vedic system is...
Guest (3): You know, all these... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Arjuna. In the beginning he was arguing, but when he saw it is useless, he said, śādhi māṁ prapannam. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). That is required.
Prabhupāda: So first of all let me become rich. Then I shall serve. (pause) (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa beat. (sound of kīrtana in background) People will come and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. This slogan has spread, "If I serve the poor..." And what you have got, you will serve the poor? You have to work like an ass to earn your livelihood, and you are going to serve the poor.
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati) What is meant by service?
Prabhupāda: No, and the poor cannot be served. Service, service to be rendered to the higher authority.
Guest (3): By serving poor, you are serving yourself.
Prabhupāda: No, serving nobody. Now, Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission... Just hear, doctor. Ah. Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission, when I went to America, I met him. He said that "The Americans are asking that 'You take money from us for serving the poor.' But when we go to India, we simply see poor men are lying on the footpath. So what you are doing with this money?" You see? This is a plea for collection of money, "to serve the poor." What... (break) Yes. I know in America there are so many foundations. You see? And there are so many cheats also. They found a society. And the managers of the foundations, they have got plea, and they get out all the money. I have seen. Who was that? That Mr. Bogus? No, Bogart. Bogart. I used to call him "Mr. Bogus." (laughter)
Yaśomatīnandana: Is that a long duration of practice or just..., very short?
Prabhupāda: No, very short. Short mean their short. It may take little more time.
Girirāja: Now they have machines that when the person is in coma, the machines artificially keep the heart beating and the other processes...
Prabhupāda: Then heart beating will go on, either you apply machine or no machine. Heart beating. But when the heart stops, no machine can revive it. So what is the use of machine? But by nature's way when the heart beating will stop, no machine can help. That is not possible.
Girirāja: So the doctors face a dilemma, that they keep the heart going by the machine, but they don't know whether the patient is actually living or dead. So they are afraid to stop the machine. They don't know how to decide when to stop the machine.
Prabhupāda: But when they stop it...?
Girirāja: Then the patient is dead. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: I will talk. Why he is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? And not only that... I do not know whether here. In Delhi have seen Rāma-līlā, the effigy of Rāvaṇa is beaten with shoes sometimes. But actually he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva. Everyone knows. And he was so big devotee that Lord Śiva gave him all benedictions, "Whatever you want." So why this Rāvaṇa is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? Why he is not described as a saintly person? He was a brāhmaṇa by birth. He was born of a brāhmaṇa father, and he was great student of Vedas. Materially he was very opulent so that he could control even the demigods. He was so powerful. Still, with all this qualification, why he is described as rākṣasa? You answer this point.
Prabhupāda: Nature? What is this nature? Nature is an agency of God by which He controls. That is nature, that "I have got a stick. I can beat you. But the stick is not beating, I am beating." This is knowledge. And the rascal will think, "The stick is beating." What stick has got power?
Indian Man (1): Somebody is there.
Prabhupāda: "Yeah, behind the stick there is my hand." That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣena prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Under My control the nature is working." But these rascals, they do not know. They think nature is working automatically. Even they accept, but they cannot control nature. Now, how he is God? You control nature. Suppose behind the nature there is no God. All right, you control the nature. Suppose behind this stick my hand is working. You cannot see my hand. But you control this stick, which is beating you, which is kicking you. Control that. So you cannot control anything and you have become God. So 'ham, tat tvam asi. These slogans misused, simply misused.
Prabhupāda: Beaten him like anything. He would have died. (break) Fisher's, Fisherman's island. "I shall again turn them into fisherman's island."
Dr. Patel: British people is the fisherman's island.
Prabhupāda: Germany is the bitterest enemy of Britain.
Dr. Patel: Stalin.
Prabhupāda: No, Germany, whole Germany. They do not like to speak in English also. Yes, I have seen it. Even they know English, they'll not speak. In the bank they could speak a little, little English, but they avoid. Then I took... What is that boy that first went to...?
Bhāgavata: Śivānanda.
Prabhupāda: Śivānanda. Then I... Śivānanda talked in German. (break) ...two wars is due to Germany's hatred to Britain. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Brahmaloka. No highest Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahmā lives.
Yaduvara: "There was beating of drums, and being inspired by godly feelings, the residents of Gandharvaloka began to play on their tamburās to please the Lord. Once when he was..." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...what is God. Such innocent. You see? They thought, "Might be some demigod." That's all.
Yaduvara;: "O Nanda Mahārāja, we are now in great doubt. Your son Kṛṣṇa must be one of the demigods." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Yaduvara: "And he saved all honest men from the hands of the dishonest." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Vṛndāvana inhabitants, they are always anxious how to save the cows, always. They are connected with cows.
Prabhupāda: ...and police is controlling by beating them. Now they will go to the office, and again they will come in that way. And coming home for two cāpāṭis. You see? That's all.
Dr. Patel: They reach their office at two o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And again... (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Modern civilization is the civilization of the indriyas. We want a civilization...
Prabhupāda: No, no, indriyas... Material civilization means indriyas, but it should be so organized. That is the Vedic principles, that you enjoy your indriyas in a systematic way so that you may not fall again, another difficulty. That is the Vedic way.
O'Grady: The system gives up. That's a marvelous solution. Because I feel very tired with the system myself. So there's something wrong with the system as being. So maybe you can give me some advice how to beat the system. Because I assure you, here in Rome...
Prabhupāda: But you Irish people, you are never tired to fight. (laughter)
O'Grady: No. We've been fighting for three thousand years now.
Prabhupāda: I think the fighting is going on still.
O'Grady: Very much so. Very badly, very bad now, very bad. What do you do about that? And that's a serious question. Is it morally correct to be sitting here, for me to be sitting here...
Prabhupāda: You see, so long people will remain under the bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am Irish," "I am English," "I am American," "I am Italian," so long this misconception will go on, fight will go on. You see? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... There is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like you cannot stop fighting between the dogs and cats. Why there is fighting? Because the dog is thinking, "I am dog." The cat is thinking, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think as Irishman, "I am Englishman," it is the same thing. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," so if I think, "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," I am no better than the dog. So as we cannot stop the fighting between dogs, similarly, so long people will remain in bodily concept of life, the fighting cannot be stopped.
Nitāi: Fourteen. Yeah, let me see it to read it. So it says here, "The best process of understanding You is to submissively give up the speculative process and try to hear about You either from Yourself, as You have given statements in the Bhagavad-gītā and many other similar Vedic literatures, or from a realized devotee, who has taken shelter at Your lotus feet. One has to hear from a devotee without speculation. One does not even need to change his worldly position. Simply he has to hear Your message. Although You are not understandable by the material senses, simply by hearing about You one can gradually conquer the nescience of misunderstanding. By Your grace only, You become revealed to the devotee. You are unconquerable by any other means. Speculative knowledge without any trace of devotional service is simply useless waste of time in search for You. Devotional service is so important that even a little attempt can raise one to the highest perfectional platform. One should not therefore neglect this auspicious process of devotional service and take to the speculative method. By the speculative method, one may gain partial knowledge of Your cosmic manifestation, but it is not possible to understand You, the origin of everything. The attempt of persons who are interested only in speculative knowledge is simply wasted labor, like the labor of a person who attempts to gain something by beating the empty husk of rice paddy. A little quantity of paddy can be husked by the grinding wheel, and one can gain some grains of rice, but if the skin, the paddy, is already beaten by the grinding wheel, there is no further gain in beating the husk. It is simply useless labor."
Prabhupāda: So bhakti school does not very much appreciate the speculative method. They surrender and they try to get knowledge directly from the Supreme Lord, as Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken by the Supreme Lord, or statements of the pure highly elevated devotees, just like Brahmā is speaking. This way. Hearing. The main purpose is hearing, hearing from the right source. That is... Especially in the western world, instead of hearing from the right source, they want to speculate about the Absolute. We have got about twenty books like this, but they are not speculation. They are simply by hearing. I am writing what I have heard, not that I am speculating. Mostly, the philosophers, they write as they speculate. They write their own opinion. But our process is not that. We don't speculate. We present the statements of God and His devotees.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feed them every time, whenever they do something.
Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning. You simply... Don't give... The mind wants, "Now let me go to the restaurant." "No, sir." Beat him with shoes. Instead of going to the restaurant, he beats the mind with shoes. Then mind will not again say, "Go to the restaurant." That is called swami, gosvāmī. One who can control his mind, that is gosvāmī. We giving the title "Gosvāmī" But if you cannot control your mind, then you are unfit. Go means senses, and svāmī means master.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was almost beaten. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The same thing...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he missed something.
Prabhupāda: So many birds are floating on the sea. Nobody's interested. But one rascal will advertise that "I can walk." They purchase five hundred rupees ticket. (laughter) (pause) People want to see magic.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if somebody can show magic, then he becomes God.
Jayatīrtha: God is showing so much magic but people don't recognize it.
Prabhupāda: No, this is also magic. But the scientists will say, "Water is combination of this chemical, that chemical." And wherefrom so much chemical came? That is a magic.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Acyutānanda: No, when they see that we've given up our drugs and our everything, we've taken a religious life, they invited us. I think they just see that we have something to beat them, and they usher us out, knowing that their position is in jeopardy.
Prajāpati: The reason we're here right this afternoon is the fact that though these men are preaching this rascaldom, our preaching can undermine it, at least to the point where they can be influenced and that the people that they are, are being influenced by them will take some notice, "Yes, this is a viable alternative" to the rascaldom that they're being presented, this...
Acyutānanda: Good.
Pañcadraviḍa: I had the feeling that it is just like when I was approaching people in Calcutta. They said, "We'll help you, but we cannot help you in a big way because we're already giving so much help to the Ramakrishna Society." So then after hearing this a few times, I concluded that people respected the Ramakrishna Society because they have a lot of money and a lot of popular support and everybody was giving to them, so they just, just like everybody else, they wanted to be part of the whole show. So the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, we have books, we have teaching, and we can present the principles very purely. But in terms of a world movement, we don't have a lot of money or a lot of power or a lot of tanks or a lot of guns or a lot of churches or a lot of popular support.
Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum—he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull—just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life—these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Uneducated, half-educated, poor, poverty-stricken. They could not do anything. Some of our Godbrothers I have beat them. (Like Tīrtha) (indistinct). In his previous life he had a big, big business organization. So therefore he has been able to organize. They will admit. They are coming from some third-class status of life. This is not tripe, this is fact.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually, I noticed that myself so many times in the way you handle money and the managerial affairs, very expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale, svayaṁ rūpa gosvāmī. Who established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was minister. He was not a cultivator, plow department.
Justin Murphy: The functions are different, but it's the same heart that's beating, the same veins...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, it is not the same body. Just like in your childhood, when you were a boy, you had no sex impulse. Now you have got sex impulse. The body of a child, the body of a boy, they cannot understand sex life because the body is different. And now, because you have got different body, you can feel what is sex life. So it is imperceptibly changing. Therefore we think that it is growing. But it is changing. It is changing swiftly. Just like in the cinema spool. The picture is changing, but because it is changing so swiftly, you are seeing that one man is moving. That is the fact. There are hundreds and thousands of pictures passed on. When you see that "This man is taking the stick and bringing this way," this means there are many pictures. So similarly, it is like a spool. Your body is changing every moment. That is medical science.
Prabhupāda: ...plans. They had to work very hard to find out, "What is this? What is this?" So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. "Working hard simply to know." Kliśyanti. Kliśyanti means working very hard, labor. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply to understand. But they are not kliśyanti to understand God. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. This kind of knowledge is compared with beating the bush. That's all. After taking away the paddy grains, only the skin remains. And if you again beat the skin to get grains, that is not possible.
Devotee 1: Beating the husk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is like that. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. (break)
Devotee 2: Prabhupāda, I have seen in New Zealand that the dairy farmers they cut the tails off the cows.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 2: The farmers have cut the tails off the cows in New Zealand.
Prabhupāda: Tails?
Devotee 2: Yeah, they cut the tails off so that when they're milking the tails won't hit them in the face. They do this to all their cows in the milking sheds.
Prabhupāda: Hm. You find so many fanatics. How you will unite them?
Yogi Bhajan: Gradually, one by one, one by one, they will understand. Love is the winning point. That's why they don't understand. When they find love from you, they will find love from me, they will love from people, they will love from everybody else. You know, you can take a mango stick and beat somebody, but you can take mango off it and eat. Effort has to be made somehow. And now...
Prabhupāda: Effort is being made, but the platform, the world where you are staying, that effort is very difficult to fulfill.
Yogi Bhajan: That is agreed. That's typical, difficulty is agreed. I go to India; I find the difficulty. I am here; I find the difficulty. But there are genuine people in the spiritual work...
Prabhupāda: But one thing is, just like you said some Christian priests?
Yogi Bhajan: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That "I realize that one, God is one." So if God is one and every one of us after God, then why there is disagreement?
Yogi Bhajan: Well, those... Everybody has limited egos, so we understand that.
Prabhupāda: No, we should... The conference should be made that if there is God and God is one, then who is that God? What is His characteristic? That should be discussed.
Siddha-svarūpa: There's only a certain amount of time and a certain amount of..., that we can talk about to people. And if we're talking about so many material arrangements, then it means that we can't be talking about that which is actually important. So we have to make a choice, whether we're going to get straight to the point or beat around the bush. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...no interest in a particular subject, why should you bother your head about it?
Harikeśa: I become very fascinated when I read these descriptions in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the creation and the universal...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That's gist idea of the universal position. That is sufficient.
Harikeśa: So, in other words, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is always bringing Mahārāja Parīkṣit to the platform of "Why bother with all of this? Simply perform devotional service"?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no. He's giving full knowledge of the universal affairs. He also says at the end that "I have described whatever I have heard." That's all.
Prabhupāda: Our science is stated in the Vedas, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be understood. So try to understand one, Kṛṣṇa, and then you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. (break) ...philosophy is, it is said, that bhaktim... śreya-sṛtiṁ bhaktim... śreya-sṛtiṁ bhaktim upasya, ye kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha means just trying to understand this, that, this, that, this, that, this, that. In this way they are wasting time and giving up devotional service to the Lord. So what is the result? Bhaktim udapasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha. The duration of life is very short, and he is gathering knowledge by going to the moon. In this way he is wasting his time. So the result is that waste of time. That is their gain and nothing more. Just see that these people instead of teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they wanted to study, go to the moon planet to understand. The result is, their only result is, that they have labored so much, and that is their gain, nothing else. What other thing they have made. Teṣāṁ kleśala evāvaśiṣyate nānyad yathā sthula-tuṣāvaghāṭīnām. Just like you beat the skin of rice paddy. You will not get rice. Simply your labor, "Gad, gad, gad, gad," that will be your gain. So their only gain is that they have learned that in the moon there is dust like here, that's all. This is their... (laughs) As if we are very much eager to know that there is also dust in the moon. (laughs) And they bluff people selling ticket for going to moon planet.
Brahmānanda: Fasting is one way of eliminating the disease without taking medicine.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a Indian proverb that "Disease and unwanted guest, if you don't give food, they will go away." If some guest has come whom you do not want, don't give him food. Then he will go away. (laughter) Similarly, disease, if you fast, it will go away. (break) ...another story: prahareṇa dhanañjaya. One gentleman had eight or nine daughters and son-in-law. So when they came, he was giving them good food and shelter, everything. So then they saw, "We are very comfortably living at father-in-law's expense." So they did not want to go. The father-in-law saw, "It is very dangerous that all the son-in-laws are not going." Then he began to... First day he did not supply salt. So one son-in-law say, "Oh, they are now disrespecful, they have not given salt." So one went away. And next day, something else, something else, something else, shortened, shortened. So those who were intelligent, they went away. The last one, he was not going. Then his brother-in-laws thought that "Give him good beating." Then he went away. Prahareṇa dhanañjaya. Others, those who were intelligent, they, when they thought that "Now there is disrespectful dealing, they are not giving everything," so they gradually... The last one, he was a rascal. He was beaten severely; then he went away.
Yadubara: So if we're beaten by this material nature, then we'll go away.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. No, material nature's business is beating and kicking. That's his only business. But we are so fool, we are taking, "Oh, very nice kicking." That is the disease. We accept the kicking as very nice. That is foolishness. We are suffering always by three kinds of..., ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika disturbances. There is disturbance in the body, in the mind, disturbance by other living entities, so many, disturbed by climate, disturbed by famine. Always disturbance. Still, we are thinking, "It is very nice place." This is foolishness. Still, we are trying to improve it. That is foolishness. He does not think that "What is the meaning of improvement? The disturbing is always continuing." That does not come to his brain. They are making improvement. (break) ...improvement, they can say, "This is improvement." But how long this improvement will go? If there is no rainfall, what this improvement will help? So that is not in your hand. That is ādhidaivika. It depends on the demigods. If they want, they can stop completely, no rainfall. Then what this improvement will do?
Brahmānanda: On the contrary, if they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being. Again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Kuruśreṣṭha: Once one performs devotional service then he can't get away from Kṛṣṇa. Can he still get away? It seems like...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that option is always, because you are independent.
Kuruśreṣṭha: I see with myself that if I try to get away a little bit, He beats me so much that I have to come back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is special favor.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This argument is like: "You go on beating me with shoes; still I am independent. I don't mind you are beating me with shoes, but I am independent." It is the argument like that.
Devotee (1): There were supposed to be some aldermen here, but one of them was a woman and it has been on the news already about what you've said and she doesn't want to come now.
Prabhupāda: Alderman?
Brahmānanda: They're like city council men. But in this case it's a city councilwoman. So she has refused to come because the comment... There has been a lot of publicity created. (laughter) So they are speaking on the radio that "The Swamiji has come to solve all the problems by saying that woman is inferior to men."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So concept of cell is the cell is just like bricks. Matter and spirit, two things are there. Either it must be matter or must be spirit.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But it's seen that the scientists, they can take some skin from your body and by putting in different solutions can keep that skin itself alive for such a long time. They have taken the heart of a chicken out of the chicken's body and then kept it beating for so many hours even though that heart was away from the main chicken. Or they take some other tissue and keep it alive. So they say that each cell is an individual living being.
Prabhupāda: So we have no objection.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: That is all right. So there is a spirit soul in every...
Prabhupāda: No, no. All right or not all right I don't say. But if they say like that, we have no objection
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the understanding to find out what life is is just to study what a cell is. That is their... They say that cells are composed of these molecules.
Prabhupāda: What is the position of the cells when the man dies?
Svaupa Dāmodara: The cells are dead.
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all your answer... You say the heart failure is the cause. The man is dying. I say that because the man is dying, the heart is failure. So heart failure is not the cause. It is the effect.
Harikeśa: That's very difficult...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because his karma in that body is running out, he has to leave.
Brahmānanda: But if I can get some machine that will make the heart keep on beating, then the man won't die.
Prabhupāda: No. That you are failure. You have got so many machines. You go on, keeping the heart going on. That is not possible.
Harikeśa: Finally they just pull out the plug. The doctor kicks the plug one day.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Prabhupāda: You can... First of all you be beaten with shoes. That's all. Then you can.
Harikeśa: No, we've actually done it. We've changed some genes and made some people better. By experimentation we can make people...
Prabhupāda: And your big, big cities are full with hippies. You cannot induce them to give up their LSD, and you are making better men. Better men is going to become worse. Just see how cheating.
Harikeśa: Oh, you mean once we make the better men they'll just degrade again.
Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that their educational system has failed. Therefore they...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should close the universities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Brahmānanda: Yes, the yogis are able to stop their breathing...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: ...and stop their heart beating, and still they are not dead.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is perfection of astanga-yoga, samādhi, to remain in trance. (break) Yes. Actually he was not dead.
Cyavana: He never died.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He practiced yoga from India. For twelve years he was there.
Brahmānanda: In India. So is that a fact, that he went to India?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise how he came to Kashmir? He knew. And when he was in India his mother died. That Aquarian Gospel? Father and mother died.
Prabhupāda: This is the... This is the process. So this is the process. So now, when he will say, "All right, you can say what you want to say," then, he sādhava: "You are a great personality, nobleman." He may be a loafer class, (laughter) but give him all honor: "You are so great and so exalted," he sādhava, "and so honest." He sādhava. "My only submission is that whatever you have learned, you forget. Whatever nonsense you have learned..." Don't say "nonsense." (laughter) But we must know that he is a pakkā, rascal, nonsense. (laughs) So don't say directly, "nonsense." Say, "You are the great personality. So kindly, whatever you have learned, forget." "Then what shall I do?" He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya durāt: "Kick out whatever you nonsense learned." "Then what shall I do?" Now, caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Kindly be submissive to Lord Caitanya, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is our program. No argument. Because he is a rascal, what is the use of arguing with him? He's a rascal number one. You know that. You cannot expect any good argument from the rascals and fools. Where is the logic? Their logic is to beat them with shoes. That is the only logic. But that, if you do that, then you'll not be able to preach. But otherwise that is the only logic, to beat them with shoes. Argumentum vaculum. You know this logic? In logic we have read. There is one logic, argumentum... You know this?
Cyavana: That is Latin.
Girl devotee (1): Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You know? What is that? Argumentum vaculum? Hm? With fools and rascals, with animals, there is no logic. Take the stick and beat them. The dog, if he is a dog, what is the argument with him? Take the stick and beat him; then he will go away. That is called argumentum baculum. That is, Sanskrit logic, also said, murkhasya laṭau śādhi (?) "One who is a fool, his only remedy is beating him with stick." This is material. But we are not doing anything material. It is all spiritual. Therefore, especially in this age, Caitanya Mahāprabhu,
Prabhupāda: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is "It is first class." (laughter)
Harikeśa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.
Prabhupāda: "I don't want to go."
Cyavana: You don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: "Yes."
Dr. Patel: You see, anything which is read out of context is no reading. You must read it reference to context. If you read some nonsense somebody must have spoken or written he's not all what he has written or spoken. So if Yaśomatīnandana reads that and Prabhupādajī talks something about the spirituality, no this moment... Because time is short and heart is long, and our heart is beating like muffled drums, so let us fulfill ourself before we die.
Prabhupāda: No, you have got your injection. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: That is not for me. I give only... (laughs) His wife was brought yesterday to me, Yaśodānandana, and she told me that she was operated in the stomach for some growth. "What sort of growth was that? Was it malignant?" And she's suffering. Why don't you send her back or get the reports from the American hospital, what operation was performed on her, and we'll get out? Or she'll suffer all the time. That is the story of injection. Now let us talk. Until you realize God, then you are spirit. Up to then, you are always...
Prabhupāda: "I am Indian." "I am American."
Dr. Patel: More important: "I am a human being and others are lower animals." That is the greatest abhimana.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also.
Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is beaten with shoes, that is not his līlā. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: What it is?
Prabhupāda: It is force, that "You must be beaten with shoes." That is not līlā. Nobody says, "Let me play this līlā and you beat me with shoes." (laughter) No sane man will do that. When a man is punished, that is by force, superior force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is force, prakṛti, nature's. You cannot say that "I don't care for the prakṛti." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. It is God's prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The matter, material nature, is forced upon him. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). He is accepting different bodies according to the contamination of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. That he does not know. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He does not know that there is a superior karta, daiva netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantu deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). So he is forced to accept a certain kind of body by the material nature. That he does not know. This is non-Aryan. Like dog. He does not know that why he has got this dog's body. He simply has learned how to bark, that's all.
Prabhupāda: And where is enjoyment? The thief also thinks like that: "Let me enjoy by stealing." Then, when he goes to the prison, then his enjoyment finished. If somebody gives you so many rasagullā, that "You take this rasagullā, and after finishing, I shall beat you with shoes," then will you take? (laughter) This is enjoyment. No sane man will like to enjoy like that. "Take this rasagullā, and after this, I will beat you with shoes, as many rasagullā you have taken." Will you take it?
Harikeśa: Yes, but I eat rasagullās every day and nobody beats me with shoes.
Prabhupāda: Why the other day you told me, "I am now not... I cannot see. My brain is..."? Is it not beating with shoes? (laughter) Eh? Don't you agree?
Indian man (5): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Huh? Everyone, but they are so rascal.
Prabhupāda: So go and sit and talk. What is his grievance?
Devotee (1): His wife is very devoted. She has a small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. She is... (indistinct)
Tejās: He is a very dirty man. His wife sometimes likes to give even a little flower, and she is afraid he will beat her if she gives anything to the temple.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sign? Rāmacandra?
Tejās: Garuḍa and Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tejās: Rāmacandra, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Garuḍa, and Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: (break) Unnecessarily there are so many parties, and they fight one another. This is democracy. Today is ekādaśī?
Tejās: Today.
Prabhupāda: From the moon it can be made.
Prabhupāda: And you eat.
Aksayānanda: That will be a nice article.
Harikesa: And if they can, they can beat us on the face with shoes, and if they can't, we can beat them on the face with shoes.
Aksayānanda: Well, that's another thing. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ly regret is that these rascals are going as scientists and big men. Simply talk. They cannot create. It is very simple thing. Put some chemicals together and if you know the chemicals, then why don't you put it? And incubator put, then you don't require to kill so many chicken.
Harikeśa: Well we know how they interact. We may not know how they got here but we know what they do once they are here.
Prabhupāda: No... Knowledge means to find out the source. That is knowledge. Where from it comes. There is a good example we studied in our childhood. A child was very intelligent so he was beating on a drum, so he was very much inquisitive, "Where from the sound is coming?" Then he cut the surface... (laughing) That is intelligence. Inquisitive... where from the sound is coming? Although it was childish but that is innate intelligence.
Hari-śauri: Scientists are trying to do that. They are taking...
Prabhupāda: And that is alright. In future! (laughter)
Prabhupāda: There is no guarantee, sir.
Dr. Patel: No, there is (Hindi, everyone laughs). I'm sorry. Your words. Very, very crafty people in business. Nobody can beat the Americans in business. They are monopolizing the world of business today. The prosperity of America is due to the, all the (indistinct). It is correct. (pause) This is Kali-yuga. People are so faithless, human race has become faithless. They have no faith in God, they no faith in themselves, and then their friends and other human beings also.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. Modern..., not faithless: animals. Yes. Dvīpāda paśu, two-legged animals. Yes. They are animal, but two legs. That is the exact word used in Bhāgavata. Two-legged animals. Dvīpāda, dvīpāda-paśu.
Dr. Patel: I think the human race should become all right by getting all these mark from God, all these...
Prabhupāda: That is going on.
Dr. Patel: That's a fact. If you are doing work tad-arthaṁ karma, then you become mukta, because there is no, I mean, taking with you anything. Mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like government servant, soldiers, they are killing so many; they are not responsible, because he's doing for the government. Police beats you, but he cannot bring any charge against the police. Another man, if he little slaps, you can bring charge, immediately. That is tad-arthaṁ karma kaunteya. The police and military department, they are doing for the government.
Prabhupāda: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.
Dr. Patel: On Sundays? I don't know now. When I was a student I used to see them full, overflowing practically. Because they were beaten down by war very recently, they did not forget God then.
Harikeśa: On Sundays they're pretty full. For a couple of hours they're pretty full.
Dr. Patel: In the morning.
Harikeśa: Then in the afternoon they're vacant. That's when they get their big collection, big collection on Sunday.
Dr. Patel: Sir, everywhere it is the church which has actually distorted the message.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: It is the church which has distorted the message. You see the Christ's message is distorted by the church; our Kṛṣṇa's message is distorted by our temples, sort of a thing.
Prabhupāda: Why temples? Even your big, big political leaders, they distort. Why do you blame the temples?
Dr. Patel: But Christianity is distorted by the...
Prabhupāda: Everyone. That is going on.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And actually that is fact.
Indian man: This was.... Even Acyutānanda said the other day. Somebody asked us that question, "Why not 'God conscious'? Why do you want 'Kṛṣṇa'?" He also said the same thing. (break) "What is the difference between thieving the butter and other things by Lord Kṛṣṇa and thieving by us?" I said "The thieving is thieving." I said, "How can there be theft of..." (break)
Prabhupāda: And if you steal, you will be beaten with shoes.
Indian man: We are beaten with shoes, but He is allowed.
Prabhupāda: Not only allowed, but He is worshiped: "Sir, it is very kind of You that You have stolen."
Yaśodānandana: Once you mentioned the story that when you were young you saw a mother running across the street in Calcutta beating her child because his brother had typhoid fever and he fed him the paratha.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: Even socially, though, without religious, scientific, practical God consciousness, how can there be a civilization? How can anyone know that there's a difference between right and wrong or morality unless there is God consciousness, to know that someone is watching everything I do? If you avoid that.... Just like we say, they want Rāma-rājya without Rāma. But they want the rājya.
Prabhupāda: Now, the laws and legislative assembly there are, and there is punishment, there is court—everything there is. That we were discussing last night, that where is the honest men? Why? In spite of laws, legislative assembly, court and everything, the wholesale rogues and dishonest. Then what is the use of this? What is your answer? Why you are checked on the airport just like a culprit, criminal? They cannot trust even a gentleman, although he is educated, may be holding very good office, but still, he is not to be trusted. So this is the result of your so-called function, that there is no honest man throughout the whole world. Then, what is the use of such education? And what is the use of their living? Let them die. No hospital for them.
Prabhupāda: Angry... With shoes. We beat them with shoes that "You have created a civilization to work like ass, and ideal is to become a pig. What is this civilization? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puru... (SB 2.3.19). And for their votes you become a president. What you are better than a pig? A pig votes for another pig, big pig. That's all. How people will be happy?"
Harikeśa: You told them that in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Did I say?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they clapped.
Harikeśa: Yes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They appreciated.
Acyutānanda: No, there was a story like that, that a cow ate a man's grasses. So the man beat the cow and the cow died. So Yamarāja came. And he was saying, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa willed me, and I killed the cow. It is all Kṛṣṇa's kārya. I did not kill him." So Yamarāja said, "Well, who, who planted this rice?" He says, "I did." "And who purchased this land?" He says, "I did." "And who purchased, who raised that land?" "I did." "Who did that?" "I did. I did. I did." "Now, who killed the cow?" (Prabhupāda laughs) So they want to take credit...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: ...when they do something for their sense gratification, but to sacrifice—"Oh, Kṛṣṇa has to tell me. Kṛṣṇa wills it." Then they don't... They say, "Why did Kṛṣṇa create evil?" Then there is a very peculiar question that comes sometimes: "If Kṛṣṇa knows that we were going to fall down, why didn't He save us?" or something like that.
Prabhupāda: He's saving you.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...man is less. He is simply beating drum. (break) ...the reason? Nobody can explain?
Pañca-draviḍa: That they won't surrender?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Jayādvaita: They have no confidence that Kṛṣṇa is there to actually fulfill responsi...
Trivikrama: They say He is imagination.
Mahāṁśa: Asurim bhavam asrita.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is due to sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Duskrtino mūḍhaḥ. Anyone commits sin, he is a rascal. Ordinarily also. A person kills somebody—that means he is rascal. He is rascal. He does not care for the law. That means rascal. So any sinful man is a rascal. Without being rascal, one cannot commit sin.
Prabhupāda: What is that pure Communist philosophy? State. We state, "This is our philosophy." What is the Marx philosophy?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ultimately, they say there should be no leader. Everything will work automatically.
Prabhupāda: But you have leader, rascal. Why do you say no leader? Immediately take shoes and beat with them.
Mahendra: They say that in the future there will be no leaders.
Prabhupāda: Again beat threes, thrice. But we are not so fool that we are going to believe in your future postdated check. We are not so fool. Present right check.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We don't accept blindly.
Prabhupāda: Immediately payable. Then we accept.
Prabhupāda: Index. You can read it. So you are reading books also. Not selling but reading also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really they are soldiers because many of them have been very severely beaten by police authorities and others during the distribution.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The men who are here now in this room, some of them have been put in jails.... (aside:) Watch out for that thing. Put in jails and beaten just for distributing these books.
Prabhupāda: So there is no legal action?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in the courts.
Tripurāri: Some places the police have a conspiracy against our devotees.
Prabhupāda: What is our fault?
Tripurāri: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.
Prabhupāda: That they don't want.
Prabhupāda: And then second son, third.... Everyone said like that, and she died without Gaṅgā. Agar mā gaṅgā.(?) So this.... And everyone has to work. And he thinks that "Why I shall work? Let him work. No work today."
Guru dāsa: You tell the story about a man beating with a stick, and then the police constable came and said, "You have beaten him." "No, no, no. It was the stick that beat him, not me." (laughter) No responsibility.
Dr. Patel: No, but, you see, the sense of possession in human society is more important, because they have no sense of possession.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...can you think about the living pulse which is beating, the heart, heart failure? Why don't you bring it into palpitation again? If you study that air.... You are.... Air you bring artificially. Push it. Why don't you do it if you are so great scientist? Is it very difficult? So in anything, air is fi.... Just like in the tire tube. Air is finished. Push it, air. It is all right. So do you think it is air, the palpitation? You are so foolish? And passing as a scientist. Air can be replaced. It is difficult? Just like tire tube air, a huge quantity to work. You immediately, within a second.... So why do you say, "Now, now the breathing is stopped." Breathing is stopped, air stopped. What is their answer? Hm?
Guru-kṛpā: They have no answer.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The cells have died.
Prabhupāda: Seller?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tiny cells in the body have died.
Prabhupāda: Then don't say that "Breathing is stopped. Therefore he is dead." Don't talk nonsense. Why do you talk like that, "Now breathing is stopped. He's dead"? Talk in right language if you are scientist. Why you are talking like that, "The air is stopped. The breathing is stopped. Therefore dead"? That's not a fact. So you are stating which is not a fact. Why you claim that you are scientist? That is the challenge. Hm? Then again you come to the blood. What is blood? Red water. So if you say that this, that, so many jugglery of words, so manufacture. Water mix with the red color and give these, these so many rascal things.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, this weakness..., you are already necessity of so many things. Make all the necessities zero. At last we at least feel necessity of a woman. (laughing) That you cannot avoid. And then you'll be punished with shoes. (laughing) When you'll become a servant of woman, then you, "No, what is the necessity?" Become thief, you'll become rascal, rogue, you'll be beaten by shoes, and everything is gone. Now these are your necessities. Hippies, they have left no necessities, but the woman is there. (laughing) They have necessities there. Nature is so powerful you'll have to feel this necessity, and with this necessity you'll require so many necessities. (Sanskrit) They're talking like madmen. What the madman does not talk, and what the goat does not eat? (laughing) Means rascals.
Bharadvāja: So the only way to beat that cycle is ajñāta-sukṛti?
Prabhupāda: Why ajñāta? Why not jñāta? You rascal, you take Kṛṣṇa conscious. Why ajñāta? Be informed. This is the only way.
Bharadvāja: He can take it directly without having performed some pious activities?
Prabhupāda: He'll take.... No, if he accepts, that is pious. And Kṛṣṇa comes personally to canvass, "You rascal, take this and be happy." But he'll not do. Although it takes millions of years to come to that understanding, Kṛṣṇa personally comes: "You take it. I assure you, I shall give you all protection," but they'll not take it.
Bharadvāja: To everyone?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When He comes here, He comes for everyone. When He teaches Bhagavad-gītā, is it for Arjuna? Everyone. (break) ...play is not distinct in the record.
Prabhupāda: So only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. About a month ago there was a black lawyer, and he was walking out of the City Hall in Boston, and some white people beat him with an American flag. They beat him with an American flag and hurt him very badly, and this caused very much...
Prabhupāda: Commotion.
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is hatred within. Artificially they have given equal rights. (break)
Devotee (4): ...because in bad neighborhood, (break) (continues onboard bus)
Prabhupāda: ...two vans.
Satsvarūpa: Besides this, well, we have so many more. Ghanaśyāma and the men in the library party, they have three vans, and then the men who finance their travels, they have two vans, so that's another five.
Prabhupāda: Along with this van, another van goes?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. And since we have this and the Deity worship, the collecting has increased and the book distribution, because now they're more regulated and it's not so difficult.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have a kitchen in the back, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And a shower and toilet, a sink. It's complete.
Prabhupāda: Small house.
Prabhupāda: That is also tapasya. That is also tapasya. Just like we are prohibiting meat-eating. So in your country this is little troublesome. From the very beginning of his life he is, I mean to say, habituated to eat meat. The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order. That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing, and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental tapasya, bodily tapasya, and what is called? Word? Just like vāco-vegam, this is tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvar... If you talk, you must talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is tapasya. "Śāstra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of Kṛṣṇa." So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words. Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him. "No, don't do it." "I want to kill you." Tapasya will restrict. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam. "I am sexually inclined, but I cannot do it. This is not the time." That is tapasya. I am restricted. In this way, tapasya in every way, bodily, mental, words, practice, dealing. So these have to be learned. That is called tapasya. And that is human life. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). If you want to make progress in spiritual life and you are human life, human being, you must act according to the sastric injunctions. That is called tapasya. Brahma, before creation he had to undergo tapasya. Is it not stated? Yes. So tapasya is essential. You cannot avoid. Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no future. It is already gone. (laughter) The future is already there. And what do you want more future? A man was beaten with shoes, and again he said that "He has threatened me, to insult me." So if he is beaten with shoes, then what insult remains to be done again? So Hinduism now finished. Now take to the process of Kṛṣṇa's order, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Teach this teaching of Bhagavad-gītā to the whole world. Not only Hinduism; Christianism, and Muslimism, everything's gone. And even it is not gone, Kṛṣṇa says, " Give up all this nonsense." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. Simply surrender unto Me." That is to be preached all over the world, and that is being effective. So if the Hindus are interested in Bhagavad-gītā, which was spoken in the Hindustan, in the land of Hindus, they must seriously take to this instruction of Kṛṣṇa and combine together and preach all over the world and make others benefited and themselves benefited. That is the only way. There is no other second way.
Prabhupāda: I think I shall not be able to go for walks. This morning my heart was beating too much.
Hari-śauri: It's very strenuous.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Best would be, then, to rest, perhaps up until at least until Washington and see, because in Washington there may be a very suitable situation. It's hard to walk on these roads also. They are very rough, and the altitude is high.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we will do. Yes.
Rādhāvallabha: This is the story of King Indradyumna, when Agastya Muni cursed him to take birth as an elephant.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: When King Indradyumna was meditating and Agastya Muni came, and so he cursed him to take birth as an elephant.
Prabhupāda: He became an elephant.
Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, that's too good.
Prabhupāda: Hundreds of men demand them, that "Do it, otherwise don't talk nonsense. If you talk nonsense, then we will beat you with all our shoes." Then they'll stop all this nonsense talk. There is no punishment for their cheating and taking money.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Your Back to Godhead article in this last magazine, "They can make a 747 jet, but not a tiny mosquito." Very thought-provoking.
Prabhupāda: With pilot. 747, you have to pay expert pilot, but here with pilot. Make this. Simply talking. Not only mosquito: at night we see so many, just like full stop, the same mechanical, flying from here, there, from here moving. Airplane, exactly in the form of... Similarly standing and... That is our challenge. Challenge this. Go in public meeting. Bring these so-called scientists, "Why don't you make any...? Why do you talk all this nonsense and cheat people?" Simple. Why first of all Sunday? There is no Monday first. I think never this question's raised, anybody. Fool's paradise. The Western world is fool's paradise. Actually this is the time they are getting enlightenment. Otherwise they are all fool's paradise. No social life, no religious life, simply get money somehow or other and enjoy wine, women, meat. That's all. This is their civilization. Do live comfortably; there is no harm.
Prabhupāda: They are doing wrong thing every moment.
Vipina: Yes, but I mean no one works to do the wrong thing; they work to do the right thing.
Prabhupāda: But they'll not take the right thing. If you say the right thing, they will come to beat you with shoes. Run away.
Hari-śauri: They don't have any idea what the right thing is. Everything they're doing is wrong.
Prabhupāda: They want right thing, but they have no idea of right thing, and if you say the right thing, they will not accept it. This is their disease.
Rūpānuga: That is more than māyā; that is their heart.
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, kliśyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Kleśala eva śiṣyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?
Pradyumna: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8)?
Prabhupāda: Huh? That's not it. Kleśala, kleśala.
Hari-śauri: It's from the Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God. There is no need of God, and "religion." This is nonsense. Religion means without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal...He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Kṛṣṇa is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years, they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's absurd to even think about becoming a devotee of Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: You have got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Pradyumna: I think it is Tenth Canto. Śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim? I've been making a list of all the verses that you quote most.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: That we already admitted. That I can see ten feet, let me credit, take credit for that. But why shall I say, "I can see the whole universe." What is this nonsense? Speak the truth. "Now we have manufactured machine, and this, I have calculation that..." All talking nonsense. I say it is not possible for you to see beyond ten feet. Why you are claiming that you can see the whole sky? That is our protest. You can see ten feet, take that credit, that much. If somebody manufactures the electric lamp, all right. Take this. But if he says, "I can manufacture the sun." Then he is to be beaten with shoes. Talking nonsense. You take this credit, that you have manufactured light in electric bulb, that's all right. But why you claim that, "I can manufacture the sun"? That is their claim, defying God. Because we are explaining God consciousness, therefore we have protest. Otherwise let them move(?), all nonsense (indistinct). But we cannot tolerate when they challenge God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was going to school, I grew up in New York, here in Manhattan, twenty years ago probably, and sometimes there would be children's gangs, and they would come in and beat the teachers.
Prabhupāda: That is the... Killed, in the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our school one teacher was killed by such a gang.
Rāmeśvara: This is still a big problem. And the teachers are also very militant. They blackmail the city that, "Unless you give us more money, we refuse to..." Then they close the schools. They go on strike. The teachers have joined a union, and they are very militant, they always go on strike. So sometimes the school is closed half the year.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśava, I want to show Prabhupāda the banner, so maybe you can stop...
Hari-śauri: In a lot of big cities that's a major problem now. They can't get any teachers to teach there because the children are so violent and uncontrollable that the teachers are just too scared to work there.
Prabhupāda: In our Gurukula we'll improve. But the parents do not want that their children should be religious, sādhu.
Guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I heard on one lecture tape, you mentioned your Guru Mahārāja has said that in the morning he had to beat the mind into submission. How can we do this?
Prabhupāda: Practice this. Your mind, when he says something hodgepodge, just beat him with shoes. Just to bring him in order. Here is the real understanding, that
- naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā
- tvat prasādān mayācyuta
- sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ
- kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
- (BG 18.73)
This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether you are prepared to act according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Otherwise you are in darkness. So as Arjuna, he was in the darkness... He's kṣatriya. The fight was arranged between the two sections of the family, Pāṇḍavas and Kurus, and when he was to fight actually with his family members, he became bewildered, that "Kṛṣṇa, what is this? I'll have to kill my family members." So then he became His disciple, that "I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight. Now I am hesitating." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ (BG 2.7). "I'm just deviating from my duty, so Kṛṣṇa, I accept You as my guru-kindly give me instruction." So that Bhagavad-gītā was given instruction... (break) He agreed, "Yes, now my illusion is over, I shall fight." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you follow Arjuna as he understood, then your understanding of Bhagavad-gītā is perfect. If you do not understand, then you have not understood what is Kṛṣṇa's speaking and what is Bhagavad-gītā.
Rāmeśvara: The argument is that by medicine or by injecting some, inserting some apparatus, some machine, they can keep the heart beating.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, he's another rascal. And one who believes in it, he's also a rascal.
Hari-śauri: I was reading the other day that at one university they started a course where they take the students through a course of death. They study death and then they try to get them to...
Prabhupāda: If it was possible to keep them by medicine, then no rich men would have died. You have got sufficient means to pay for medicine, and he would have kept his relatives, son alive. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said. It is not possible.
Rāmeśvara: They are very hopeful that modern medicine can keep them...
Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.
Rāmeśvara: The argument is that by medicine or by injecting some, inserting some apparatus, some machine, they can keep the heart beating.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, he's another rascal. And one who believes in it, he's also a rascal.
Hari-śauri: I was reading the other day that at one university they started a course where they take the students through a course of death. They study death and then they try to get them to...
Prabhupāda: If it was possible to keep them by medicine, then no rich men would have died. You have got sufficient means to pay for medicine, and he would have kept his relatives, son alive. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said. It is not possible.
Rāmeśvara: They are very hopeful that modern medicine can keep them...
Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.
Prabhupāda: So in spite of these big, big names and research and everything, man will die. This is bakāṇḍo nyāya. He's thinking it will drop. It will never be possible, but they're thinking that by these big, big names we shall find out the way that man will not die. This is bakāṇḍo nyāya. Hope against hope. So by that method they want to live? No.
Bali-mardana: No. They want to decide when to turn off the machine that is keeping the heart beating, because sometimes the brain stops functioning. The person..., the body is still alive, but there's no consciousness.
Prabhupāda: The coma.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Also they cut out the hearts when they do these heart transplants. They've been accused of taking out the heart of a living person.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The doctors have been accused of taking out the hearts of living persons.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So how to use it? What they'll use?
Rāmeśvara: Sometimes if a man is in critical condition he will donate his bodily organs, so they will kill him just to take out his heart so that they can use it for transplanting.
Bali-mardana: When his brain stops, even though the heart is beating, they take it out.
Prabhupāda: So? (pause) That is the question put by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. "I want to live, but what is that force that does not allow me to live?" This is the question, this is the question. They are trying to find out so many laws, so many, what is the purpose? They want to live, but there is a force that will not allow you to live. That is the human question. When this question arises, then he is human being; otherwise he's a dog. Dog never inquires.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory? The girls are working that side? No.
Hari-śauri: No, they won't come for another half hour yet.
Jayatīrtha: They can come earlier if you like. They can come any time you like.
Prabhupāda: No...No, I have no objection. What is that? They'll work that side; I'll sit down here.
Jayatīrtha: A local policeman said that in England there are more laws protecting the dogs than there are protecting the children. If you beat your children, then no problem. If you beat your dog, immediately they'll come arrest you.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Bhagavān: I've seen in India, they are bringing foreign dogs.
Jayatīrtha: Even that one gosvāmī in Vṛndāvana, he has got French dogs.
Prabhupāda: That poodles. He's rascal. And such a fool, "Jagat-guru." So you go.
Prabhupāda: So beat them with shoes and when they protest, "Oh, it is chance, don't mind. It is by chance I am beating." (laughter)
Bhagavān: It seems they are struggling so hard for existence they do not have time to contemplate these simple things, working so hard.
Prabhupāda: So show the simple example that how by simple living and thinking of Kṛṣṇa, one can become perfect and happy.
Hari-śauri: People's minds are so much agitated by false desire that they can't appreciate anything. Real beauty they overlook, searching for something else.
Prabhupāda: My mother used to make puffed rice at home. So there is special rice available for making puffed rice. Either you can prepare at home or you can purchase in the market, special rice. So she was preparing nice puffed rice, very, very nice. In a sand pot. My mother was always engaged in making some food preparation. Some pickle, some chutney, and this puffed rice, or something else, something else, something else. Besides cooking for the family, she was being assisted by my sisters. Always palatable foodstuff. So many guests were there, and if son-in-law would come, they would specially prepare food for him. To receive guests, give them nice food to eat, prepare nice food for the family, this is the Indian pleasure. They are not very much, nowadays, for upkeep of the home, very... That, in their own way, they keep it very nicely. Every utensils, very cleansed, they are kept ready for use, some cloth. If you go in a poor man's home, but you'll find everything very neat and clean. Ask these gṛhasthas to keep their home very neat and clean.
Prabhupāda: Beat him with shoes on his face. Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He's your father's servant, that He's created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. I create something for my enjoyment. But I can allow others to enjoy also with me, that is another thing. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Is there any example? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? I create for myself, for my enjoyment. But I can allow you to enjoy with me. That is another thing. A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment—society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. He feels some enjoyment, therefore he takes the risk. Otherwise he has no business. Why should he create unnecessary trouble to maintain a family, maintain wife, children and society? The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment. But I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that...? What you said? That God cannot enjoy.
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect favorable situation. It is not possible. When I came in America, I never expected any favorable situation. I wrote that poetry in disappointment, that "Who will accept this?" That is the position. By Kṛṣṇa's grace, gradually it will become a favorable situation, but don't expect any favorable situation. You have to handle unfavorable situation and make favorable situation to preach. That is preaching. Any business. (to devotee fanning:) Just on the head. Just see, there is flies. So Nityānanda Prabhu, He went to preach to Jagāi-Mādhāi. There was no favorable situation. They were drunkards. They caused injury on the body of Nityānanda Prabhu. So this is preaching with only unfavorable situation. You cannot expect favorable situation. And still you have to preach. That is preaching. They will speak like madmen, so many things. They are mad, after all. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). They have no sense. All materialistic persons are madmen. Still, by the order of superior, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we have to do this preaching work. Actually, the American boys are fighting against so many unfavorable situations. They are sometimes beaten in the airport, you know that? Still they are preaching; that is preaching, that is preaching. "The unfavorable situation, so let me give it up," that is not preaching. Yes, we must know that there is unfavorable situation, still I have to. That depends on your brain, how to tackle. You cannot expect favorable situation.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's the business of the representative.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is equal to everyone. He sees that these rascal asuras are misguided, so He sends His representative, He comes Himself, there is śāstras, guidance, and everything. The whole propaganda is how these rascal asuras can be turned into devatā. This is equality in the eyes of God. Very simple thing. Just like government puts a person into prison house. The idea is to correct him. Not that government is enemy of a class of men, they are put into the prison house. Government is equal. But there is department of punishing this... (aside:) (indistinct) Government is equal to everyone, but there is this department of reformation which is called jail department. He's punished so that he may come to his senses that "I have done wrong." But unfortunately there are stubborn criminals, they are not corrected. They go and again come, go and again come. One term finished, another term. One term finished... That is transmigration. One term finished, punishment, and another term begins. He creates another term. So that is daiva netreṇa. That is superior arrangement. Now this rascal has finished his human form of life, now again he has committed so many sins, let him become a dog. Again comes to the human form of life, again one chance is given. This not good, but he does not accept, so again he becomes a tree-stand up for ten thousand years. Nothing is a chance. Everything is under supreme control. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But he is a rascal. He simply defies and suffers. One man is being slapped with shoes, so he is shameless, he says, "Oh, you have beaten me with shoes. All right, if you touch my wife, I'll sue you." Then the wife is beaten with shoes, then he says, "Oh, you have beaten my wife. All right, touch my son, I will sue you." In this way every member is being beaten with shoes, and he is simply challenging that "I'll sue, I'll sue." This is going on. He's punished one after another, but still he is so shameless that still he defies the authority. That is called asura. They're not very intelligent. "Next time I will see. Wait millions of years, I shall see..." So we have to deal with asuras. This is the position.
Prabhupāda: And there is no father. And he has no father, the rascal who is talking? He has no father? Immediately beat him with shoes. (laughter) The rascal, you are talking, you have got your father. Beat him with shoes immediately on his mouth.
Jñānagamya: They say for a plant, ground is necessary, water is necessary, seed is necessary, air is necessary, so why is it that there is only one cause?
Prabhupāda: From the one everything is coming.
Jñānagamya: Why isn't it coming from several sources? Instead of one source, why not several sources?
Prabhupāda: That, he has no intelligence. Just like government has so many departments. But original is the king. The departments are only facilities for functioning. But the origin is the king, government. Because there are different departments, there is no king. This is rascaldom. They are rascals, simply rascals. There is no solid argument against.
Prabhupāda: For them, argumentum ad baculum. Sanskrit is mūrkhasya laktosadi(?). Just like animal. Animal, if you give argument, no. When you show stick and beat him, then he'll, he'll be... Argumentum ad baculum for them.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Iran most people accept all our philosophy fully, but they are not willing to accept authority from Kṛṣṇa because they say, well, why is... They cannot be convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Then there is proof: śāstra is there, sādhu is there, ācārya is there, other authorities are there. Just like Arjuna said, that, quoted Vyāsa, Nārada, Asita, Devala, "All of them have accepted You the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You are explaining Yourself. Therefore I have no doubt." Vyāsadeva is authority, Nārada is authority, and there are many others. Recently, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... We are following the Caitanya cult, but He's stated yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. He's accepting. Why does He say "Kṛṣṇa"? Why does He not say others? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa yāre dekha (CC Madhya 7.128), tāre kaha And Kṛṣṇa also, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior person." And Arjuna accepted, "Whatever You are saying, it is all reasonable." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). "Whatever you have said, I accept in toto." There is no cut short, "I don't like this, I don't accept this."
Prabhupāda: Your mind, his business is to think something. But ordinarily the thinking is we accept something and reject something. Or accept the same thing and again reject the same thing. This business is going on. But if you think of question, there is no question of rejecting. Simply accepting. Then it is fixed up. Other things you accept and reject. Something we accept as "Oh, it is very good." Again, "No, no, it is not good." Accepting childish. Child is playing, one type of playing, "No, no, another one." That is material. And when you fix up, no rejection, simply accept it, that is Kṛṣṇa... So if you think of Kṛṣṇa... Just like here is temple. If you come and, as other devotees are doing, if you do, if you attend maṅgala-ārati, if you attend bhoga-ārati, always see, then offer obeisances, then naturally you will think of Kṛṣṇa. Then as you think of Kṛṣṇa, you become purified. Just like if you touch with fire you remain always warm. Similarly man-manā, if you always think of Kṛṣṇa, you gradually become fully Kṛṣṇized, Kṛṣṇa's devotee, Kṛṣṇa's servant. That is perfection. There is no difficulty. People will not do that. That is the difficulty. "Why shall I think of Kṛṣṇa? I shall think of this, I shall think of that." This is difficulty. Otherwise not difficulty. You have to think something, think of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finished. (Hindi with guest) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtinaḥ (Hindi) Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). (Hindi) Beating with shoes by māyā, that's all. (Hindi) "Come here, māyā, kick on me."
Prabhupāda: He said like that?
Gargamuni: Yes. I think all fathers must say.
Hari-śauri: Yes, mine did too. One day I walked in with a cigarette, so he beat me because I was smoking and I was only fourteen or something. So then I said, "But you were doing the same thing." And he beat me even more.
Gargamuni: They say, "I am old enough to do it. You are not."
Prabhupāda: "When you are an older, you become a debauch. But don't become now." (laughing) If it is a good thing, why older and younger?
Maṇihāra: Our relatives, especially close relatives, parents, and they see, they can see immediately...
Prabhupāda: This is natural. These things are not good. They know it, but they are habituated. But they do not like that son should be habituated. That is natural. Your father predicted about Brahmānanda that "This boy will be a saintly man."
Hari-śauri: Oh. The portrait?
Prabhupāda: Not portrait. That I was beating on my... What is called? That dundubhi we call it. What do you call this. Bango? Bang?
Hari-śauri: Oh, gong?
Prabhupāda: Not gong. It is one side covered with skin.
Caraṇāravindam: Like a tambourine.
Hari-śauri: No, it's... You mean a drum...
Prabhupāda: Drum. Not two-sides. One side.
Hari-śauri: Like a tom-tom drum.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that picture is very nice.
Akṣayānanda: Prabhupāda, if we don't use soap, the question has come up, how to wash the clothes. How to wash the cloth. If you do not use any soap, the question has come up, how to wash cloth. By beating only? Sufficient?
Prabhupāda: For washing cloth you require soap. But does not... You require everything, but because you are spending without any sense... So I calculated yesterday the whole thing, Deity worship, Deity pūjā, will require five hundred rupees per month.
Akṣayānanda: I had requested for the flowers, Viśvambhara said twelve rupees you had decided last night.
Prabhupāda: Twelve rupees, thirteen rupees...
Akṣayānanda: Twelve, thirteen. Actually today, I wanted for today but the flower man was not able to... We could not catch him in time. But from tomorrow it will start, definitely.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that one who is cheating you, he will cheat in twelve rupees, also he will cheat in fifty rupees.
Hari-śauri: The mṛdaṅgas are in there all day long. Any karmī that comes in, they beat the drum and mess around. The little kids go in and they do the same thing. I've seen them. You should take them out of the temple. Let them be there for kīrtana and then take them away and store them in your room. There's no kartālas now either because everybody steals them.
Prabhupāda: These two rooms can be used for keeping.
Akśayananda: Kartālas are locked away every time and the drums were done... That was done until they were broken.
Hari-śauri: Or you can just put them in that tourist room. Or in the pūjārī room.
Akśayananda: Yeah, I'll arrange for that.
Prabhupāda: Everything depends on organized management.
Jagadīśa: I was thinking, to make an example of him, either we should beat him or send him back.
Prabhupāda: Best thing will be send him back. He's incorrigible.
Yaśodānandana: Personally I had that boy with me for two months when I went to South India, preaching, and I thought it would be an asset to have a young boy, but he was so misbehaved that it was too much problem. And the same things that he was doing, in the beginning with me, telling lies and misbehaving, he is still doing now and he does not correct himself never. He has no effort to better his behavior or his conduct. He does not chant his rounds. He rarely comes to the kīrtana, or else when he comes to the kīrtana, he does not chant. He simply plays and makes fun. And it's very... He has a very bad influence on the other boys.
Prabhupāda: No, then he should be sent back. Or he can be sent to Bombay to work ordinarily. Or Hyderabad farm. Like that. Let him work on the ground.
Jagadīśa: In my opinion, the best thing is to make an example and beat him.
Prabhupāda: Yes, send him to farm, work in the field. If he does not work, beat him. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ. (?)(Hindi conversation)
Yaśodānandana: He was just in Hyderabad for that ceremony there, and he caused such disruption in the whole temple that I don't think they'd want him there.
Jagadīśa: The thing is, if we beat him here and keep him here, then all the boys will straighten up because they will see that if they go bad, then this will be their punishment.
Prabhupāda: As you think, you can do. But I wanted to engage in farm work, in digging.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, since His birth struggled. (laughs)
Jagadīśa: We had harassment from the police in Montreal for two years. Sometimes they even beat up the devotees. They have put them into jail...
Prabhupāda: They have beaten even our book sellers in airports.
Hari-śauri: Chicago.
Jagadīśa: And the police mistreat the devotees. But still, the devotees continue and now in Montreal there's no trouble.
Prabhupāda: They crucified Jesus, what to speak of devotees. Prahlāda Mahārāja was persecuted, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I think I shall not go to Europe, America, for some time. (laughter)
Guest: There is no medicine for mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is medicine; there is beating with shoes. That is going on. Mūrkhasya laktansadhiḥ,(?) argumentum baculum. You cannot mildly speak to the animals, "My dear cow, my dear dog, please do not bark. Do not go this way." No, you require lāṭhi, stick, and they will behave. Can you stop dog's barking by simply request? But you take the stick and beat it, and he will stop. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ.(?) So there is no king. There is no kṣatriya. Therefore these rascals are talking all nonsense. There is no śāsana. This is king's duty, to see that they are acting according to śāstra. But there is no such king. So everyone is acting whimsically, whatever he likes, and the so-called swamis are preaching, "No, no, whatever you like, that's all right. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever you like. You think yourself that you are God. That's all right." This is going on. By thinking himself that he's God, he becomes God. This is going on, so many meditations: "I am moving the sun, I am moving the Moon, I am moving... mo mo mo mo." (laughter) And rascals are following them.
Prabhupāda: Rascal! Create from chemicals. Otherwise, beat them with shoes in their mouth. Why you talk nonsense? Create from chemicals, life. (break) What do they say?
Devotee (1): They say they're working on it.
Prabhupāda: Then be beaten with shoes. When you're successful, then say. Otherwise, I shall beat you with shoes. That's all. That is your punishment. You have not come to the experimental stage, and you are talking, "This is science." Science is experiment and observation. Unless the experiment is practical, practical science... It will be accepted as science when the experiment is successful. Not before that. That is scientific method. First of all, observe. It may be happening like this. But that "maybe" should be confirmed by experiment. Then it is science. Even in colleges there is practical examination. Theoretical and practical. So unless... "We are trying." Everyone will say, "I am trying." "I am trying to become millionaire." When you become millionaire, then say that you are millionaire. You are trying for becoming millionaire and you say, "I am millionaire." What is this nonsense? Huh?
Devotee (1): Yes. No one has ever observed the life coming from matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just prove that life comes from chemicals. How is that? "I am trying to be millionaire, therefore I am millionaire." What is this nonsense? You are trying to create from chemicals. Therefore you are scientist. What's this kind of scientist? Beat them with shoes. That's all.
Prabhupāda: I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them the shoes. He said, "Well we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way I suppose. I'm open to correction.
Prabhupāda: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business, he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of... Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is... I'm sorry, sir...
Prabhupāda: Therefore why mahātmā? The same business you are doing, why you say mahātmā? If you are doing the same business...
Dr. Patel: He never called himself mahātmā. People called him mahātmā.
Prabhupāda: He liked to enjoy it. He liked to enjoy it. That's all. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmā has no business to this... (break) ...fact, the present position of India, it is not very good. But we can do that. We have got the means. If we make propaganda village to village. Still, the villagers, they are unpolluted, they can be recovered. Still, when we hold meeting of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, thousands of men come. And that, our Hyderabad land is very suitable for this purpose.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Govinda dāsī, you are feeling all right? Like this atmosphere? So Caitya-guru, your program, that you are going to construct temple there? (break) Aiye (break) You must accept the standard way, then you'll get siddhi, you'll get sukha and parāṁ gati. Unless you follow the standard way, na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. So if you have interest in bhakti-yoga, then you practice the bhakti-yoga properly. That will make you successful. Otherwise, teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate, simply whatever labor you are doing, that is your profit and no other profit. Kleśala eva. Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. The example is tuṣa. Tuṣa you know? The skin of rice? Husk. Yes. So if there is paddy, if you beat it, you'll get rice. But if you beat on the husk, then...
Yogi Amrit Desai: You won't get anything.
Prabhupāda: But your gain is only that labor. So similarly, if you don't know what is the substance, you go on laboring, that laboring is your only achievement and nothing else.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Such a beautiful example. If you keep on beating the husk...
Prabhupāda: What you'll get?
Yogi Amrit Desai: The labor you get.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He has to... I'm not there all the time. They come to his house to...
Prabhupāda: No, you argue with weapon. Beat them. We shall see. Go to the police that "This is nonsense."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we've done that.
Prabhupāda: So how is that?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At the present moment he's okay; he's quiet.
Prabhupāda: No, we should beat them. If somebody, atatayi...(?) You unnecessarily attack me; I must first kill you. That is my duty. Just like you have done here, Setterji. "I'll bring my revolver." So that is argumentum baculum. Here they wanted to put us into trouble, and he was in great trouble. So he came, he stood: "All right, come on. We shall fight. Bring my revolver." He did that. So we have to do like that. Why shall I tolerate unnecessary injustice. Take that spirit. And in meantime apply. That is the solution. Why shall I spend for them? And unless they arrange for the sewer lines, we're not going to pay tax.
Prabhupāda: Tāḍayet means taraṇa, chastisement.
Indian (4): Actually we were so rapt, we wish to be beaten by your stick on our head.
Prabhupāda: Śiṣya, this word, very word, means voluntarily accepting the chastisement. This word, śiṣ, śās, śās-dhātu... From śās-dhātu comes śāstra. Śastra means weapon. So weapon is meant for maintaining peace and order. And śāstra. Śāsana. These are the derivation from original root... Śiṣya. Śiṣya means who has voluntarily accepted to be chastised and ruled by the spiritual master.
Dr. Patel: Śikṣā means instruction. So the one who takes the instruction in śiṣya. Śikṣā.
Prabhupāda: To obey. Śiṣya means to obey, discipline.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise I'll not give to Govinda. Income tax officer will take: "Govindāya namaḥ." If you distribute prasādam of Govinda among the poor men... We have got already in Māyāpur. Increase that. There is... They are drum-beating, that "Anyone who is hungry, please come and take prasāda."
Girirāja: That they accept as charitable. They want charitable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: So what could be more charitable than feeding?
Prabhupāda: No, you keep always kitchen, and by drum beating, that, "Anyone hungry within this area, or anywhere, come here. Take capatis, roti," and distribute prasādam. That is in our program.
Mr. Asnani: I shall go what Prabhupāda says, nearest to our village, within ten miles, five miles, two miles.
Prabhupāda: That I ask you. Do that. Why it is stopped, I cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: Mules, I have seen, if they stop, you can beat like anything; still, it will not move.
Gurudāsa: Yes. "Stubborn as a mule" is a proverb in the West.
Prabhupāda: I have seen. The soldiers are beating with the butts of the gun—still (laughter) not going. So many varieties of life we had to pass through, and with great fortune we get this human form of body. And that also we waste in the same business—punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), misguided. Labdhvā sudurlabham idam bahu-sambhavānte (SB 11.9.29). After many, many births this human form—people do not understand. Sudurlabham. Durlabham means rare, and sudurlabham means still...
Dr. Patel: More rare.
Prabhupāda: But the rascals, they do not take it very seriously.
Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.
Prabhupāda: All brahmacārī and sannyāsī.
Rāmeśvara: My zone is all gṛhasthas (laughs) with a few brahmacārīs. Anyway, next year we can beat Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. (Prabhupāda chuckles) He has only beaten us by a few hundred thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: But don't tell him now.
Rāmeśvara: Or it may be ruined.
Prabhupāda: He may be very careful.
Rāmeśvara: I think we should send him a congratulations letter.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. You send.
Rāmeśvara: I'll send him.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. To entice him.
Prabhupāda: Bāla-līlā also will not be understood. They will think, "What is this?" That is stated in the Śrīmad... Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena, māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakena. Māyāśritānām. They'll not.... They'll: "What is this nonsense? A boy is playing, and they are worshiping Him?" That's it. These people will take like that, that "What is that? A boy is playing with some cows and calves, and these foolish persons are worshiping." They will take it.
Guest (2): It is said also there. When Yasoda tries to beat Him, oh, He shows the universe.
Prabhupāda: So who will understand that?
Guest (2): No, no, no, no, all understand it. All will understand, sir.
Prabhupāda: So beginning means from the Bhāgavata beginning or from Bhagavad-gītā begins.
Guest (2): But when Vasudeva is coming with Kṛṣṇa, and Yamunā goes out, goes out, and it makes a way and that...
Guest (1): Years long back, Orissa was full devotees of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, long back.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I know that.
Prabhupāda: You learn! You come to me. I'll teach you and beat you with shoes and teach you. (laughter) Come to me. Why I am here? You come! I shall beat you with shoes and teach you. Then you'll learn. You require some beating with shoes. You are a bad student. So I'll do that. "Come on." Yes, I keep always my shoes for my bad students.
Gurukṛpā: You can beat me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'd like that.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. A student who is more chastised is advanced. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "My spiritual master saw Me a grand fool. Therefore he has chastised Me." That is the position. The more we remain a grand fool, then more we may advance in spiritual consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. He was mūrkha?
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one thing they're doing against us more and more in the West is taking the testimony of an ex-disciple of yours, and he will say, "I was a Hare Kṛṣṇa..."
Prabhupāda: "Because he is rascal, therefore he's 'ex,' excommunicated. My Guru Mahārāja kicked him out, so what is the value of his word?"
Gargamuni: We can say these men were excommunicated.
Prabhupāda: Ex means he's executed. That's all. He's finished.
Prabhupāda: We don't say; you are saying. We don't say. We say that you must be punished without food. You are dying without food. That is your proper justice. We say that. We are not anxious to this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not. We give. Whatever we have got, we distribute prasādam. That's all. We are not concerned about their daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. That is not our business. Suppose there are so many persons, they are without food in the hospital. Doctor has prescribed, "No food." What you can do there? Can you show your sympathy? "Oh, so many persons are lying without... Let us give." Then you'll be beaten with shoes.
Yogeśvara: Because you haven't understood the purpose.
Prabhupāda: If you go with sympathy that "So many hungry persons are here," then you will be beaten with shoes. That we know, That we should not disturb the arrangement of the hospital. We are saner. But you are disturbed. "Oh, so many people are starving. Let me give him some." You are rascal.
Prabhupāda: Child cannot see. He's a rascal. He should be beaten with shoes. Then he will see. The child cannot see. Putraṁ ca śiṣyaṁ ca tāḍayen na tu lālayet: "Sons and disciples should be always chastised." That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. "Never pat them. Lālane bahavo doṣās tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ... "If you pat, then he'll be spoiled. And if you chastise him, he'll come out a very nice person. Therefore, either disciple or son, they should be always chastised." This is the injunction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. There is no question of patting them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Yes? He gave false name; he signed it false. He said that we're coming with banduka and chasing the sādhus and that we're harassing people, beating them. So many things he wrote, false. He said, "Most envious is Bhavānanda and just like him is Jayapatākā." Then he said that "Tapomaya, he is simply their lackey. He goes and harasses people," this and that. Then the police came, and they showed us the letter, and we both looked at each other and said, "This looks like something that Dāmodara Mahārāja would do." So we advised the police, "We think that he did it." So the police went over there and they said as soon as they had the letter he started shaking. They said, "Is this your letter?" He said, "No." He says, "You wrote this letter." Because they could see he was nervous. They are experienced. They said, "All right, you give your signature." And then he signed, and although he tried to change it, they said, "No. This is the same signature. Now we're going to take you to the thānā." (police station) "No, no. I am sometimes a little crazy." Āmi ekṭu pāgala. "I didn't mean this..." Then he admitted. But he sent that to the chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Just see. How envious.
Jayapatākā: Naturally, any letter to the chief minister, they...
Prabhupāda: Take action.
Prabhupāda: Still, they're prosperous. They have got car. They have got business. They have got factories. Although they are harassed in so many ways, still they are prosperous. They have got their shops and business house in Johannesburg, and they cannot remain there. They must go back. So that was a failure of Gandhi. Gandhi for twenty years agitated. General Smuts, he was the head at that time. And he was beaten. He was so much troubled. Once upon a time Gandhi was captured and beat so severely that he was going to die immediately. Some English South African friend, he saved him. So Gandhi's life from this side is a failure. He could not achieve any success there. Then he thought that "I shall drive these Englishmen from my country." He came here in 1917.
Prabhupāda: What...? Rejected. I think of them, dead. They may think themselves that they very full of life, but I think they are dead. What is the use of fighting with the dead body? Dead horse and what is the use of whipping? A dead horse will rise up by whipping?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, "Beating the dead horse." There's a saying.
Prabhupāda: I think all of them are dead.
Hari-śauri: Yes, they're not doing anything. They've retired. They built their own little place, and now they're retired.
Prabhupāda: There is no activity throughout the whole world, er, whole year. Only they come during the festival.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll take that as an insult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, insult. The animals should be kicked with shoes and stick. Argumentum baculum. There is no argument for animals. Kick and stick. Beat him. That is the way of dealing with animal. You cannot request an animal very... "My dear dog, please do not bark. Sit down." Simply kick and give him stick. That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.
Prabhupāda: They cannot.
Hari-śauri: If we give them a good beating they wouldn't come back again.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we did that. There was one man, very, very big demon, who was breaking up all the sales in one airport. So finally the devotees hired a professional man, and this professional watched how this man went home, and after about a month of observing him, this professional man hid himself near the man's garage, so when the man came back home—after disturbing our sales for five months—the professional beat him very severely.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he never came back again.
Prabhupāda: That's it, tit for tat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He never came back.
Prabhupāda: So we should adopt that means. Anyone who is opposing, give him good beating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they do.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, this was very done, that hiding in the garage, and as soon as, "Oh," beat. Give them. "Eh!"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he could understand. There was no proof, but he could understand very well why he was beaten.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: It's just like when they get taken before Yamarāja at the end of their lives, it says in the Bhāgavatam, they understand all their past sinful activities. Now they're getting punished for it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is allowed. That is within Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are doing that, because the policemen and others are beating our men in the airports sometimes. We are getting hit and beaten. Tripurāri sometimes was punched in the face. Many times it has happened to him. He has been beaten for distributing.
Prabhupāda: We can also do that.
Prabhupāda: From the pulse beating, you study how it is beating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like sparrow, like crow.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Then, according to that, there is verse. Immediately everything will be arranged. The history. He will not ask, "Give me the history." He'll study the history from the pulse. That is Ayurvedic. So that is gone. To study Āyur-veda is now lost. Nobody seriously takes Āyur-veda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is not much big money in it, I think.
Prabhupāda: Thing is allopathic is so popular now, nobody goes to Āyur-veda.
Prabhupāda: And we may be rascal; we do not know who is father. The father Himself says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "Here." We accept Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. The father is present. He says, ahaṁ bīja... The rascal is searching out: "There is no father." So immediately who denies the existence of God, he is a rascal. He is to slapped only, with shoes. That is the only remedy. Anyone who denies the existence of God. He's a rascal. He should be properly treated with shoes and beaten.
Girirāja: That's true.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Mūrkhasya lakuṭauṣadhi(?). When a person is fool number one, beat him. That's all. Ḍhol gobara...(?) Tulasī dāsa has said, ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Ḍhol, drum, you have to bring it to the tune by beating, "tung, tung." Gobara. Gobara means fool person. Paśu, animal. Ḍhol, gobara, pa..., śūdra, and nārī, woman. They should be punished to bring them into order. Ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Otherwise they will spoil. A barking dog, you cannot pacify him, "My dear dog, don't bark." It will disturb him: "No!" Ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke... So anyone who is denying the existence of God, he is a rascal number one and beat him with shoes. Bas. He is being beaten with shoes by nature.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I don't care for you." (Hindi) Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. (Hindi) Rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." (Hindi) ...manufacture... (Hindi) ...ism, this ism, that ism, that ism. (Hindi) The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. (Hindi) ...nonviolence... (Hindi) Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The first word is (Hindi). And you want to prove it, nonviolence. (Hindi) ...rascaldom... (Hindi) The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Violence required to keep the society in order. (Hindi) Who will give protection? Sab scientific. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) "So don't trust woman and politician." This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahābhārata, there is not a single instance... We had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state...? Very, very qualified women. You know. Na svatantratām arhati, striyaḥ. For woman there is no independence. The Manu-saṁhitā. They must stay under father, under husband, or under elderly sons. Three stages.
Prabhupāda: Nine thousand rupees', ten thousand rupees' income is for very, very big man. But comparing, say, sixty-seventy years ago, we were a middle-class man, so a middle-class man has not increased his income from three hundred rupees to ten thousand rupees. That means everybody has become poor. So where is the advancement? Simply beating the drum, will this...? In our childhood we have seen mustard oil, first-class, made in Kanpur. We were purchasing, eight annas per two and a half ser.
Prabhupāda: That from paddy, rice is taken away by beating.
Bhavānanda: (whispering) That's the...
Prabhupāda: In your country there is no such thing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we have seen.
Prabhupāda: It is called ḍheṅki.
Bhavānanda: Ḍheṅki.
Prabhupāda: That is Indian. (Bengali) Ḍheṅki? (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā must know.
Prabhupāda: Jayapatākā must know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might argue that...
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argue? I'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like a madman.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Nature will beat you with shoes. You have to accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say, "We have seen old men, but we have never seen anyone change their body."
Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?
Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."
Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.
Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible. What is that vox populi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: General population.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah. The heading is "Eleven Krishna Devotees Held for Firing." "Five Indian and six foreign Vaiṣṇava devotees were arrested from Māyāpur maṭha of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, in Nabadwip last night when shots fired from inside the celebrated temple injured fifteen persons, most of them milkmen. A double-barreled gun was seized from the maṭha, it is reported. Police pickets have been posted since there is considerable tension in the nearby villages. Among those arrested is Swami Bhavānanda, an American in charge of the maṭha. Some time ago he was forced to leave the country after the expiry of his visa, but he returned later. The incident occurred at about 5 p.m. on Friday. Some boys were grazing their cattle on the fields outside the maṭha when some cows strayed into its compound. The cattle were beaten up by the inmates and driven out." It doesn't sound like our devotees. Beat up cows? "Angry milkmen from a nearby village crowded outside the maṭha. Shots were then fired from inside the maṭha, it is reported, injuring fifteen persons, two of them seriously. The police arrived on the scene within an hour. Among the six foreigners arrested are a Romanian, an Italian, and some Americans. The founder of the maṭha, Prabhupāda A.C. Bhaktivedanta, was not present." This is called slanted reporting. I mean, first of all, our devotees don't beat up the cows. We worship the cow. We don't beat cows. I can't take this as very factual account. So many statements here say, "It was reported," "It was reported." This is from a... It was published in Delhi, but it's datelined Calcutta, and the event happened in Māyāpur. So by the time it got to Delhi it seems to have taken a strange shape. I thought you'd want to...
Prabhupāda: These goyālas are very aggressive.
Śatadhanya: Milkmen means goyālas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bālāi goyālas.
Prabhupāda: It is not the Muhammadans.
Prabhupāda: We want that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody admits that no one can beat us in our book distribution. Other groups, they tried to duplicate what we are doing, but they failed.
Prabhupāda: No, what they have got, books?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's another thing. The other Santa Claus, they don't give anything. We give books. They give nothing except they pat the guy on the head. They pat the child. That's all. What will that help the child, patting him on the head? And another thing is that all the other Salvation Army Santa Claus, they're all drunkards.
Prabhupāda: They must be drunkards.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know the Salvation Army is very... They take all the drunkards. They give them Santa suits.
Prabhupāda: If you take money without any aim, you must be drunkard.
Prabhupāda: They are Communist group. Muslims are not so bad, but the Communists... They are... Communists are creating as Hindu-Muslim or like that, religious group. He has written something about Communists?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.
Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.
Prabhupāda: And telephone was cut.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. We didn't cut our own telephone lines. Whoever cut it should be taken to court. Criminal. Destroying government property. There's no mention here of a cow, that we beat any cow. None of these things are mentioned.
Prabhupāda: So many stories fabricated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty men stealing our crops. I've seen in Māyāpur. When men steal crops, three, four men go. I never saw fifty men. Highly organized. They must have paid them to do this.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And another thing that they probably told them is that we're trying to get their land by acquisition. "But we won't let them ever get your land. Now you do this. Drive them out of here. We won't arrest you."
Prabhupāda: That is a different issue.
Prabhupāda: Conscious that "I have been victimized by woman, a sannyāsī. So my career in this institution finished." He knows that. "Nobody will take me seriously." Therefore he left his daṇḍa, went away. Good son, another, but he cannot. Therefore several times I called him; he did not come, that "My career is finished." This consciousness, where you'll find? And here, even a man is fallen, he's also conscious, "How much I am fallen." (break) ...is that when a person is fallen, he is conscious that "I am fallen." (break) It was beaten. (pause) (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "You told us about three years ago when we first reported some of our success to you that this was only a beginning. Little did we know at that time how much truth was in this declaration. Now we are literally seeing your fame being spread all over the three worlds."
Prabhupāda: Slow.
Jayatīrtha: This is the world's record for the most books ever distributed by any temple any week in history. But this week Bhagavān has sworn he'd beat it. That's why he hasn't come yet. He'll be here tomorrow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavān is personally staying there to make sure his zone beat Jayatīrtha's zone. And only after he's achieved victory, then he's going to come and see you.
Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization is sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone be happy." This is Vedic civilization. And this is the way, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The same house?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Iran? The same house?
Rāmeśvara: The same house that you stayed at last time.
Prabhupāda: Good house.
Harikeśa: The printer has invited all the BBT trustees from all over the world, and he will pay their fare, and he will say he will beat everybody's price in the whole world for printing.
Prabhupāda: Then why not print there?
Rāmeśvara: He wants us to go to do the research next month in November.
Prabhupāda: So go. If you get cheaper and nicer, why not?
Rāmeśvara: We're planning to go and research it very carefully.
Bhavānanda: But he said that your pulse is so weak that every 18 beats it skips a beat, misses, because you're in such weakened state.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he was hopeful in general.
Prabhupāda: Dr. Gopal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Is he still here, Dr. Gopal?
Bhavānanda: Yes, he's still here. So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think that we should... Dr. Ghosh has come all this distance, and he'll get very upset if we don't at least try this course of medicines. I think that we should try and see what happens. It was a lot of medicines, but they can be combined together in one dosage, once in the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening, so it won't be all the time having to take.
Hari-śauri: It can be drunk down with some liquid as well.
Bhavānanda: Yes. You can mix it with fruit juices or...
Prabhupāda: So do it.
Bhakti-caru: He's saying that Prabhupāda's pulse is ninety, which is normal, and he gave three other medicines for Prabhupāda's heart. That missing beat that Prabhupāda was having—that's no more there.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were having a missing beat in your pulse.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) He is telling that he's requesting repeatedly that Prabhupāda doesn't talk too much. He says that the energy that he's building, the moment he starts talking, he loses that energy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, how to say all right?
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Trying to stop Śrīla Prabhupāda from speaking is like trying to stop the Gaṅgā.
| Page Title: | Beating (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur, Sahadeva |
| Created: | 24 of Jul, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=146, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 146 |