Prabhupāda: Just like the prisoners. They are also maintained by government. And those who are not prisoners, they are also maintained by government. The prisoners are outlaw. They do not recognize the government. That is prisoner, criminals. But both of them are provided by the government. And so far individuality is concerned, that is mentioned in the Second Chapter. Kṛṣṇa said that "You, Me, and all these soldiers and kings, they were before existing like this, they're existing now like this, and they'll continue to exist." So individuality's always. Kṛṣṇa never said that "After this, we shall become a homogeneous mass." Never says. Individual.
Guest (1): Just as the bees gather honey from different trees...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they keep their individuality.
Guest (1): ...and when the whole mass comes from, each small particle of honey does not know that he's from a particular tree, like that, he becomes... After the whole thing he gets, what do you call? The deluge.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Those, the collector, they remain individual, after and before. And while on the beehive. Always individual. That is the point. When they begin collecting honey, they're individual. And after collecting, when they make a beehive, they're individual. Or when they're sitting on the beehive, they're individual. Eternal. This is eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). (break) So what is that? Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ?
Dr. Patel:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
Prabhupāda: Karṣati.
Dr. Patel: Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Śarīraṁ yad avāpnoti yac cāpy utkrāmatīśvaraḥ...
Prabhupāda: So... So they... Śarīram, śarīraṁ yad avāpnoti. They get different bodies. But they're individuals. They're individuals.
Dr. Patel: They are individuals till there is a salvation. And after, they are...
Prabhupāda: No, salvation means when they have ceased to accept the material body. That is salvation. Śarīraṁ yad avāpnoti. So avāpnoti means it was not, in the spiritual body there was no such thing, but they accept this material body.