Prabhupāda: Demonic nature means they do not believe in God. "Oh, what nonsense, God. I am God." Although he's a dog, he thinks himself, "I am God." That is demonic nature. He is being kicked every minute by the laws of nature, and still, he is superficially thinking that "I am God." God is not so cheap, but they have made to become God is very cheap. If you pay thirty-five dollars to a person, he'll give you a mantra and you become within six months God. This is very nice statement and people will follow. Thousands and thousands will follow. But if you say, "Oh, you have to undergo much austerity, penance, regulation and tapasya," "Oh, this is botheration. We shall enjoy material life, and the same time become God." So these cheap things are exhibited by the demons. And when a demon is born, the natural disturbances are there.
Austerity (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Candanacarya: ...to know something about Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct) I think you have to know something about Kṛṣṇa before you know Him to love Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I explained. For ordinary neophyte devotees... This is the highest stage. The stage of the gopīs or the cowherd boys playing with Kṛṣṇa, oh, they are kṛta-punya-puñjāḥ. Many, many lives they have undergone many types of sacrifices, austerities, penances, and then they have come to that stage.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Does your method include meditation, austerity of various sorts...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is austerity.
Interviewer: ...in addition to no alcohol, no drugs?
Prabhupāda: We don't mention any particular thing. Generally we say "No intoxication."
Prabhupāda: People can be peaceful by knowing three things. If he perfectly understands only three things, then he'll become peaceful. What is that? Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. All the sacrifices, austerities, penances, whatever people are undertaking for perfection, the enjoyer of such activities, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." "I am." Just like your activities. This is also a kind of austerities. Your artistic songs, they have become popular because you have undergone some austerities. You have come to the perfection. That requires penance and austerities. Or any scientific discovery, that requires austerities. So every nice thing presented in the world, that requires austerity. Very devout, painstaking. Then it becomes successful. That is called yajña. Tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, "The result of the tapasya enjoyer, I am." He is claiming. "The result of your tapasya should come to Me."
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So śāstra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature. Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacārī. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmācārya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacārī, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Woman Interviewer: Do you feel there's a danger?
Prabhupāda: Of course, to search out guru is very nice. But if you want a cheap guru or if you want to be cheated, then there will be many cheater gurus. But if you are sincere, then you'll have sincere guru. People want to be cheated because they want everything very cheap. But just like we are asking people no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. So people think it is very difficult, it is botheration. And if somebody says, "No, you do. Whatever nonsense you like do. You simply take my mantra," they will like it. So the thing is that they want to be cheated; therefore cheaters come. They don't want to undergo some austerity. Human life is meant for austerity. But they are not prepared to undergo austerity. Suppose some cheaters come. They say, "Oh, no austerity. Whatever you like you do. You simply pay me and I'll give you some particular mantra, and you become God within six months." (Laughter) And that is going on. So you want to be, if people want to be cheated like that, the cheaters will come.
Prabhupāda: Still they have not reached the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Simply impersonal idea, and self-complacent that "I have become now Nārāyaṇa." So this kind of knowledge is aviśuddha, impure, impure knowledge, because the test is, unless one comes to the point of understanding the Personality of Godhead, the knowledge is imperfect. So they are impersonalists, and falsely thinking themselves as Nārāyaṇa. Therefore we can immediately test that "Here is a rascal." Vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. "No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacārī, then I took sannyāsa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?" Yes, you are rascal. (aside:) Don't make sound. Silently. "Still I am rascal?" Yes. You are rascal. "Why?" Āruhya kṛcchreṇa: because the symptoms are there that you are a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Karpatri is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32), "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth," but patanty adhaḥ, "falls down."
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So just you follow in their footsteps, my other students, and it will be fulfilled, your desire. We are training to that direction, how to become purified and happy. That is our mission. We want to see everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. But people do not know how to become happy. They do not take the standard path to become happy. They manufacture their own way. That is the difficulty. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). This advice was given by Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons. "My dear boys, just undergo austerity," divyam, "for transcendental realization." Everyone is going austerity. This boy, I know, he had to go foreign countries to learn this commercial management. So many... So now he's good situated. But everyone has to undergo some austerity for future life. So why not take that austerity for permanent happiness? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena satt... Permanent happiness, you have to purify your existential body. This body, so long you will accept this material body, you'll have to change it. And as soon as you get a spiritual body there is no question of change. Spiritual body you have already. Simply now, due to our material contamination, we are developing material body. But if we associate with spiritual life, then we shall develop spiritual body. The same example I have several times given, that you put the iron rod with fire, it will develop to be fire.
Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this afternoon we were discussing about austerities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Śyāmasundara: About austerities. If you don't practice voluntarily austerities, then you must involuntarily practice some austerities.
Prabhupāda: Yes, under the direction of spiritual master. You have no mind to follow austerities, but when you accept a spiritual master you have to carry out the order. That is austerity.
Śyāmasundara: Even if you don't want to practice austerity, you must. You are forced to.
Prabhupāda: No, because... You have got... You have surrendered to your spiritual master. His order is final. So even if you don't like, you have to do it. To please me. Even you don't like. Nobody likes to fast, but spiritual master says, "Today is fasting," so what can be done? (laughter) This is austerity. And disciple means who has voluntarily agreed to be disciplined by the spiritual master. That is austerity.
Śyāmasundara: Say, like our parents or many people in the material world, completely addicted to material life. They don't want to follow any austerities, uncomfortable, but still they must. By nature they're forced to austerities.
Prabhupāda: That is forced austerity; that is not good. Voluntary austerity will help.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) ...if you don't undergo voluntary austerity, you must be forced to undergo...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) That is the difference between man and animal. Animal cannot accept austerity. But man can accept austerity. That is the difference between. Just like there is a nice foodstuff in a confectioner's shop. So a man wants to eat it, but he sees that he has no money. So he can restrain. But an animal, cow comes, immediately he pushes his mouth in that. You can beat him with stick, it will tolerate, but it will do that. Therefore, animal cannot undergo austerity. (Someone else speaks inaudibly about volume of loudspeakers) Yes, yes, reduce. (break) Our austerity is very nice. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and Kṛṣṇa sends nice foodstuff, we eat. That's all. Why your people are not agreeable to such kind of austerities? Chanting, dancing, and eating nicely? (indistinct) I see austerity, call my mother.
Prabhupāda: Suppose we have this nice foodstuff this mother has brought. So those who are not following austerities, they cannot expect. But because we are following austerity, Kṛṣṇa sends us nice thing. So we are not loser. When you become Kṛṣṇized, then you'll get more comfort than at the present moment. That's a fact. I am living alone for the last twenty years, but I have no difficulty. When, before taking sannyāsa, I was living in Delhi, these boys were taking care of me. Yes. So I had no difficulty, although I was living alone.
Prabhupāda: So these people, the sahajiyās, they have become dogs and hogs. Now after this life, (indistinct). For their sinful activities they have become dogs and hogs. Now unconsciously as dogs and hogs they are taking advantage of the Vṛndāvana land. Now they... Now they will become pure devotees. Just like we see in the life of Bharata Mahārāja. So much austerity, and because a little attachment for the deer, the next life he was (indistinct). Yamala-arjuna, they became trees. But on account of staying in Vṛndāvana, next life (indistinct). So we should be intelligent. Why should we take another chance of becoming hogs and dogs? But that requires intelligence.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If you keep yourself with the rascals, then you'll think like rascals. And if you keep yourself with sane men, then you'll think like sane men. Association. That is required. That is the only way.
Devotee: And then, and then for detachment, it's just constant austeri...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: For detachment, it's just austerities?
Prabhupāda: Detachment, when you'll understand that this is good, this is bad, naturally you'll have detachment for the bad. Unless you know this is good, this is bad, how there can be detachment? When you are offered two kinds of foodstuff, and if you know: "This is good, this is bad," then naturally you have detachment for the bad and pick up the good. First of all you have to know what is good and bad. Then, when you are convinced, naturally you know: "Oh, this should not be taken." Detached, automatically. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Therefore knowledge is first required for detachment. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā (SB 1.2.12). Jñāna, first of all knowledge, then detachment. unless you have knowledge, artificial detachment will not work.
Prabhupāda: Defense. Defense means... Just like we have discovered atomic bomb for defending. This is also material activities. So it requires time to learn. But one thing is, the beginning should be, as far as possible, our life should be sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. "Anyone who is completely freed from all sinful activities." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. "And always engaged in pious activities, such person can become devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). "He becomes free from the duality of this world, and becomes fixed-up in My service." So this is the condition, that yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. Without being sinless, nobody can understand what is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavad-bhajana. Therefore this is the beginning of sinless life: no intoxication, no illicit sex... If you can, if somebody avoids these things, he does not die. It is simply a little practice. He's practiced to all these bad habits, and if he likes, he can give it up. It is not difficult. And this is tapasya, little tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). To become advanced in spiritual life, one has to accept some tapasya, austerity. So this is a simple austerity. Therefore when we officially initiate, we get this promise from the student, that "You have to follow this." And that's all.
Prabhupāda: Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people. Anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy. And they are not expected to undergo very severe type of austerities. Neither prāṇāyāma or yoga. They are unable. Simply I have advised them, "With these beads chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen rounds." They are chanting. It is very easy. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma... Sixteen rounds. It takes about two hours. And they're refraining from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, gambling, intoxication, meat-eating. This much they are following austerities, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, taking prasādam. They are happy. Anyone can take. It is not difficult at all. Anyone. They are gṛhasthas. It is not that one has to become a sannyāsī. No. All my, these disciples... Here is a gṛhastha. Here is a sannyāsī. Here is a brahmacārī. So all together, they are serving the same purport. And we are getting good result.
Devotee: Austerity.
Reporter: Ah?
Devotee: It's an austerity.
Reporter: Yes. And then I came to... I left it, and came to Benares, and...
Prabhupāda: So when you joined this (indistinct-Sarboddha?) movement? At Benares?
Reporter: Yes. I was meet... I met Vinoba Bhave, and...
Prabhupāda: He's still living?
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ah, monks.
Cardinal Danielou: Monastery, yes. With contemplative life and austerity of life. And we have many, many monastery in France. Some Benedict, some Benedict and...
Prabhupāda: Where he has gone to take the water from, Arabian Sea?
Cardinal Danielou: (French)
Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I can change the tape. (break)
Cardinal Danielou: ...leader of the Kṛṣṇa community?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am.
Prabhupāda: So Arjuna said that "You have connection with my father. Therefore you are my mother."
Śrutakīrti: You mentioned him in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta purport. When one yogi was performing severe austerities, Lord Indra would send the dancing girls. They were called...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Apsarās.
Umāpati: There's some austerity, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?
Umāpati: They're sleeping on the beach.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of their sleeping? (laughter)
Umāpati: They save their rent money.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is his misfortune. That is a young man's fashion in your country.
Umāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.
Prabhupāda: That is reaction. The rich man is trying to become a poor man. "Let me see what is the advantage of the poor man." That's right. Your country does not require to lie down like that. You have got enough arrangement. But it is a fashion. That's all. So fashion is not austerity. That is sense gratification. It appears like austerity, but it is sense gratification. Real austerity is not to make any sense gratification, simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is real austerity.
Umāpati: So why should he require us to go through austerities like...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya means he must show by example. Āpani ācari bhakti śikhāimu sabāre. Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Umāpati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Umāpati: ...who benefits by austerity?
Prabhupāda: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?
Umāpati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.
Prabhupāda: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?
Umāpati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.
Umāpati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupāda: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: All these things are sinful. To drink is sinful. Even among the Muhammadans. To smoke, sinful. They have got austerities. Their animal-killing is once in a year. (Hindi) Only animals should be sacrificed in worship. There are so many things. Every religion there is good thing, but then nobody follows. Simply defined, "I'm Christian," "I'm Muhammadan," "I am Hindu..." That's all. He's neither of them. He's simply animal. He's simply animal. Just like these rascal Christian. The first proposition is "Thou shalt not kill," and see they're simply killing, and they're claiming "Christians." Just see. All rascals, and they're claiming, "We're follower of Christian." (break) ...propaganda is to teach all these rascals. Therefore we say general rascals. It may be very strong... That professor was referring, "Yes, everyone is rascal." You know that professor?
Karandhara: Yes. He thought "rascals" was a bit harsh.
Umāpati: ...I think that we were discussing the political possibilities of putting devotees into office, and we came up with the astounding discovery that we almost represent everything that is against western values. We represent austerity. We represent God consciousness. We represent restriction of sexual freedom, intoxication. All the four regulative principles are almost totally in opposite to western desires.
Prabhupāda: That means western people are all demons.
Karandhara: The classic idea is that one goes away and just lives in a state of remorse, solitude and remorse, thinking how sinful and wretched he is, and performing severe austerities.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Karandhara: Going away, living in a monastery, performing severe austerities, and always contemplating how sinful and wretched we are and how we must suffer.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is suffering. But one who knows that he is suffering, he is intelligent. (Aside): Good morning. Everyone is suffering. If you are not suffering, why you have covered? Why you have covered? Because you are suffering, is it not? Why you are not naked body? Because we are suffering, therefore we have covered. It is a fact. And if somebody says, "No, we are not suffering," then he's a madman. So everyone is suffering. One who knows it, he is intelligent man. That's all.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time... āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They undergo very good auster..., severe austerities and reach the brahma-jyotir, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there. And they have no information of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they again come down. Patanty adhaḥ. He wants enjoyment, but there is no enjoyment. Simply thinking, "I am Brahman." What is the enjoyment there? You think like a rascal Brahman. Yes, you are Brahman already. Why these sputnik wālās, they go...? (Laughter)
Prabhupāda: One who has captured Kṛṣṇa, he has got siddhi. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. The highest perfection he has attained. That is wanted. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... If... One may be reluctant to sex life for a few days. Then again he'll do that. Because he has no shelter. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param... Even they go to the Brahmaloka, they come down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param. Kṛcchra, very severe austerities. They rise up to the Brāhmaṇaḥ padavī (?), and again fall down. Because they have no shelter. So all these siddhis are simply temporary. It has no meaning. It has no value. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So these siddhas will take many, many births to come to the point of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante.
Prabhupāda: ...yogic practice. So to save oneself from the influence of material laws. (break)
Girirāja: "...executed all religious principles. In this way you were able to cleanse your heart and control the influence of material law. In executing your austerities you used to eat only the leaves of the trees which fell to the ground." (break) ...takes birth in other planets are the same Devakī and Vasudeva, His parents?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the performances of all austerities. One can get the result of all austerities simply by serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: All the leaders.
- piśācī paile yena mati-cchana haya
- māyār grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya
(break) ...must have undergone severe austerities and penances and developed his spiritual consciousness. Then he can be priest. Not any man with a sacred thread and ganta, belling, becomes a priest. (break) ...priestly class, all rotten class. In Christian world also—drunkards, nonsense, woman-hunters, and they are priests. So also in India. Any man with a two paisa worth sacred thread, he becomes a brāhmaṇa and priest. How the people will be guided? The priest... The exact Sanskrit name is purohita, who can actually...
Indian Man (1): Puru bhagata.
Prabhupāda: No, not puru bhag. Pura, yes, purabhaga, for welfare. By his advice... Just like Gargamuni is called for the advice, future of the child.
Dr. Patel: "One who is lord of go."
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.
Girirāja: (break) "...been pleased by his undergoing all kinds of penances and austerities, and he must have executed universal welfare activities for all living creatures. The Nāga-patnīs confirmed that one cannot come in contact with Kṛṣṇa without having executed pious activities in devotional service in his previous lives." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...double feature is not understood by the Māyāvādīs. If Kṛṣṇa has created the whole, so why he should be separate? He is not separate, still separate. (break) ...regularly this book Kṛṣṇa, he will be liberated, simply by reading this book.
Prabhupāda: ...first of all, being observed by father of Kṛṣṇa. It is very important. (break) ...necessity of tapasya, if one worships Kṛṣṇa? Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And after austerities, if he does not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the value of his tapasya? (break) ...imitating here, that is lust.
Dr. Patel: Anything with a view on the sex is lust.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is lust. Here everything is lust. Center is lust. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The central point is sex.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Guṇānuvarṇanam. "Translation: Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely, austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."
Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So if they have information that this is not the only life, then won't they automatically become more austere?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) consider what kind of life I'm going to get. (indistinct) They have made their own rascal philosophy that there is no life after death. Although they're experiencing that I am changing my body in this duration of life. I know that I have a child's body, child's body. That body's finished. Still I'm existing. So why I shall not exist after this body's finished? Where is the logic? Where is the... The simple logic they cannot understand. So dull brain. And they're advanced in civilization, big, big professor, big, big Indologist, this logic. The simple reason they cannot understand.
Bhagavān: Objection is that the people have become so impatient for sense gratification, they have no patience anymore. They can't wait... There was some story. In the United States, there has been this trouble with petrol, and... All over the world, there's been this trouble with petrol, gasoline. So there was rationing. That means people could only get a little gas. So the cars would line up for a great distance in the gas station, and they'd wait for a long time. And sometimes the gas station would run out of gas. And the people would get so angry that they killed the gas station attendant. (break) ...does not teach anyone to be austere or patient.
Prabhupāda: But human life is meant for austere and patience. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). Austerity, penance, that is human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. Simply animal civilization. It is not human civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (car is in gas station, conversation in car about how much gas to get, etc.) (break) ...progressing, they stand their own position, as they are made by nature. Therefore there is no criminality. They are under full control of nature. We are also under full control of nature, but we have been given little concession: to cultivate spiritual knowledge. So that intelligence, extra intelligence, what we have got, instead of cultivating spiritual knowledge, we are using in the same process of sense gratification like the animals. And this, this business, this, means animalistic business in a polished way, is going on as civilization.
Jyotirmayī: So she said that in..., it is also explained that those who are not intelligent enough to study, or who are out of caste, so they cannot, they don't have the right to study, then it is said that they can attain God directly by surrendering unto God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. It does not require education, knowledge or anything. If he agrees to surrender to the lotus feet of God, then his life is perfect. That is stated in the Vedic literature, naradita yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?). "If one has surrendered himself to the lotus feet of God and worshiped Him, there is no more need of austerity and penances." And naradita yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?). "If one has not learned how to surrender to God and worship Him, then all his austerities, knowledge, are useless." Antar-bahiḥ yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?), "If one can see God within and outside, then where is the necessity of austerity?" And naradita..., nan tad yadi bahi hari sthapasata tat (?), "If one has not learned to see God within and without, then where is the value of his austerity and penances?" Therefore God realization is the only business of the human being.
Satsvarūpa:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, calmness, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness. These are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: That is the qualities of the highest intelligent class of men. So if you do not find such qualities, how his knowledge should be perfect? These are the qualities.
Satsvarūpa:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first quality man.
Reverend Powell: Well, there's a great similarity, isn't there, to the fruits of the holy spirit in the New Testament, with these qualities you've just...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. When, when one is qualified with all these attributes and he acts accordingly, then he is first-class man.
Yogeśvara:
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
(reads French Translation) So here in this verse that Śrīla Prabhupāda quotes, Kṛṣṇa says, "Knowing Me to be the ultimate goal of all sacrifices and all austerities, the Lord of all planets and of all demigods, the friend and well-wisher of all living beings, the sage finds relief from all material miseries."
Prabhupāda: So long I think that I am the friend or father of my children, I will have to give..., help them, so I am thinking falsely responsible. Actually I cannot do anything. Therefore, the so-called responsibility is māyā. My real responsibility is how to realize God. That is my real. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says openly, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Do it. Apply your American brain how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is success.
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
Whatever talent one has got... These talents are also acquired after austerity. It is not ordinary thing. So everything should be employed to describe Uttamaśloka, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Uttamaśloka. So we have got so many Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's pastime. We can overflood. Just like you can overflood with this literature, we can overflood... This is art. Art, music, everything we can utilize. In any way one is addicted—let him eat only, let him sing only, let him paint only, let him dance only—we have got everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let him do business also. Yes. Engineering-construct temple. It is so all-perfect movement, Kṛṣṇa... That is Kṛṣṇa, all-attractive. Everyone can be attracted and give up everything. He will be attracted by Kṛṣṇa in such a way that he'll give up all nonsense. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No more other enga... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). All other attraction finished. Simply Kṛṣṇa.
Śrutakīrti: We were driving in a car in Hawaii. You mentioned that.
Prabhupāda: And that's a fact. There is no happiness. We are declaring, "That's all right, but if there is little happiness, that is in America." So you are favored by Kṛṣṇa. Utilize this favor of Kṛṣṇa in glorifying Kṛṣṇa. Then it is success. Avicyuto arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad uttama-śloka, to become extraordinary in any branch of facilities, that requires austerities. So when one has acquired that, he should engage it for glorifying the Supreme. Yad-uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). (break) ...with the bag. (break) ...within the box.
Prabhupāda: That means in need. So that is the question, that you may be in need of food, I may be in need of some woman, he may be in need of some money... In this way everyone is needy. Therefore ultimately one should search after God, when every need will be fulfilled. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he went... He was in need of an empire like his father. For that reason he went to the forest and performed all kinds of austerities, and when he saw God he said, svāmin kṛthārto 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more need. Everything is fulfilled. I don't want anything." He... God said, "Now whatever benediction you want, you take from Me." He said, "No, I don't want anything. Now everything is fulfilled." So that is the real need. The child is crying, and he is not stopping crying. So many others coming. But as soon as his mother comes, he will stop. He understands immediately, "Now I have got the thing, my mother." So the real need is Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people don't want to accept any austerity, though.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people won't accept any austerity.
Prabhupāda: Then you must suffer from the disease. If you have got disease, you must undergo the... What is this austerity? Where is the austerity?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If they don't accept the medicine, then they can't be cured.
Prabhupāda: Then they must suffer. A man, diseased, and he doesn't want to take medicine, then where is the...? He must suffer.
Jayādvaita: That requires our personal austerity.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayādvaita: That requires our personally being austere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And what is austerity? It is very simple thing. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu. If you continue devotional service to Lord Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, then automatically the effect of these austerities will become, janayaty āśu, very soon. Vairāgyam. Austerities means detachment to the material world. That is the result of austerity. So śāstra says janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, that vairāgya, detachment, very soon arises. Come. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is very good engagement.
Prabhupāda: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ānanda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahmān effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ānanda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyāsīs, they give up everything—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā—Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithyā, if it is false, why...? (break) But they have... (break) Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.
Paramahaṁsa:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
Translation: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.
Paramahaṁsa: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness.
Justin Murphy: But once a man has strived for those qualities, how does he know when he's attained them? And...
Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses. So śamaḥ means keeping the mind always equipoised, and damaḥ, the controlling the mind. And suppose if... I have to eat something to live. So God has given me so many nice foodstuff: food grain, fruits, milk. Why should I kill an animal unnecessarily, for the taste of my tongue?
Justin Murphy: Selfishness.
Prabhupāda: That was his only demonic proposal, that "We make staircase." He said that "Why you are undergoing so much austerities to go to the heavenly planets? I shall make a staircase. You will go."
Jesuit: And it's good that, I think, we are coming more to understand that. And I think you see a lot of young people who really are longing for some form of contemplation and prayer. That is why you get followers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, these boys they are coming from your Christian group, Jewish group, but they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One priest in Boston, he issued one pamphlet that "These boys are our boys, and before this movement, they didn't care to come to the church. And now they are mad after God. How is it? The same boys." So indirectly he accepted this process as easier to understand God. And actually it is easier. What do they do? They don't go to the forest, or meditate, or make any very austere, what is called, penances. They simply chant in the morning and dance in ecstasy and then eat sumptuously. That's all. And now they have given up everything. Now, you bribe them, "You eat meat." They will never eat. They will not drink tea even. The method is... The American government they spent lots of money for stopping this addiction to drugs. And these boys, as soon as they come to me, they give up. Ask them what money I have bribed them. You can ask how they have left it.
Amogha:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.
Dr. Copeland: I'm not a first-class man.
Prabhupāda: No, that I do not know, but if you have got these qualities... We have to judge by the qualities, not by birth. But since India accepted a brāhmaṇa by birth without these qualities, India's civilization fell down.
Amogha: Śamaḥ-peacefulness; damaḥ-self-control; tapaḥ-austerity; śaucam-purity; kṣāntiḥ-tolerance; ārjavam-honesty..."
Prabhupāda: Simplicity, honesty. Ārjavam means even an enemy enquires from me, "What is your secret?" I shall say, "Yes, it is... I have no secret. This is my position." This is called ārjavam. Don't keep any secret. So ārjavam, then?
Amogha: "Jñānam-wisdom."
Prabhupāda: Yes, full knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?
Devotee: To the moon expedition?
Prabhupāda: Yes, moon expedition.
Devotee:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: So, people should be trained up.
Śrutakīrti:
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
"Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."
Prabhupāda: The advancement of knowledge in any department, that is very good. But what is the aim? The aim is to glorify the Supreme Lord. Just like you are lawyer. You gave us help in some difficulty time. Why? Because you wanted to continue glorification of the Lord, that "These men are doing nice. Why they should be harassed?" So that means you helped glorification of the Lord. So that's your success as a lawyer. So anyone who helps this movement, that "They are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. They should be helped in all respect," that is the perfection. Everything is required, but it should be culminated in the matter of glorifying the Supreme. Then it is perfect.
Amogha:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
Translation: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: So we have to train men like that.
Prabhupāda: Tapaḥ. Tapaḥ, tapasya, austerity. Austerity. Then you have to consult what is the austerity? The austerity is, beginning of austerity is the sex control. That is austerity, brahmacarya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). And that brahmacarya you can observe by following certain rules and regulations, Just like these people are following. In this way everything is there, clear. There is no interpretation. You cannot interpret the word water. Everyone knows what is water means. Where is the question of interpreting? Therefore sometimes reference to the teacher is necessary. Otherwise every word is clear. There is no question of interpretation. Now they are irrelevantly interpreting the first verse of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). So they are interpreting Kurukṣetra means this body. And where is the chance of such interpretation? Kurukṣetra, the land, is still there. Just before coming here I went to Kurukṣetra. So why you should interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this body"?
This is wrong interpretation. The law of interpretation is there when you cannot understand directly. Then you are allowed to interpret. Otherwise there is no necessity of interpretation. But they are unnecessarily interpret for their own purpose. That has become a fashion, to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in his own way.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, idaṁ te na atapaskāya. Those who have no life of penance and austerities, don't talk with them. It will be a waste of time. You know that there is verse in the Bhagavad-gītā? In Eighteenth Chapter. Idaṁ te na atapaskāya, māṁ ca yaḥ abhyasūyati: "Persons who are envious of Me and those who have not undergone austerity and penances, don't talk with them." But we take the risk. We go even to these rascals. Because for Kṛṣṇa's sake, "Never mind, it will take some time. Let me try this rascal." Therefore the easiest process is that every rascal will agree to take nice food and dance. So induce them to come to us, dance, and take nice food. Let them come on this ground. And by hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, gradually they will be all right. This is the policy. So far argument, logic, philosophy is concerned, they are beyond... Because they are animal. They cannot understand.
Ambarīṣa: The scientists want to go there without performing any kind of austerities.
Prabhupāda: But there is austerities.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, actually they end up performing greater austerity.
Prabhupāda: You have to earn money with so much labor and spend it for nothing.
Paramahaṁsa: Billions of dollars. Some of them are working like madmen.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this is being done by the hogs. Whole day and night they are searching after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon he gets the stool and they have sex, that's all. Is that civilization, hog's life? And what is civilization? That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God." That is civilization. Work very hard similarly, but for Kṛṣṇa and not for imitating the hogs. Now, why I should be interested in for God realization? Yes, you should be. You must be. Why? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: (SB 5.5.1) "By becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your existentional constitution will be purified." What is that purification? Purīfication means because you are now impure, you are subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease.
Prabhupāda: That is great austerity.
Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that we should not fast more than one day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I wanted to point out to you that the results...
Prabhupāda: No, artificial... Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was fasting, but he was not weak. That fasting. And he who will fast artificially and become weak, "I cannot work," that is not required. That is called markaṭa-vairāgya. If you fast and at the same time you do not become weak, then that is recommended. And after fasting you cannot do a flat, fall flat, then what is the use of fasting? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was fasting, but he was taking thrice bathing and offering obeisances hundred times. His regular activities was not stopped. And he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.
Prabhupāda: If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet. The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places. In India there are so many places. So in this way, there is no sex in the vānaprastha. Simply the wife remains as assistant. And she also practices austerities. And then the husband, when he is fully mature, he sends wife back to his elderly children to take care of her and he takes sannyāsa. So this is spiritual advancement, and in sannyāsa life, one is absolutely dedicated for the service of God.
Jayatīrtha:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which a brāhmaṇa works."
Prabhupāda: This is first-class. Now śamo damaḥ... Śamaḥ means controlling the mind, mind is always peaceful. You can train. Then controlling the senses. Then truthful. Then full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life. These are the qualification of first-class man. Everything is there. If you train a boy to become first-class man, he can become first-class man. If you don't train, then he will become a debauch, criminal, disturbing. So we are training in the Gurukula to become first-class men. This is our aim.
Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely.
Nitāi:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.
Paramahaṁsa: But what of our efforts to conquer cancer and tuberculosis?
Prabhupāda: No. Because we are conquering to... We are trying to avoid death. Then it is... Everything is cured. Cancer, cancer's father, grandfather, everything is cured. So we are trying for that. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "If you simply understand Me..." Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what is the purpose, then you become conqueror over death. That is our philosophy. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our progress, how much we have understood Kṛṣṇa. And when one understands fully Kṛṣṇa-fully it is not possible; at least partially—he is conquering over death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is real human life, how to conquer over death. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tat punar-janma-jāyāya. All the great sages and big, big kings, they left everything, went to the forest for austerity, penance. Why? To conquer over death. That is the mission. That... Everyone can do that, human life. And that is plainly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Simply try to understand Me and you conquer over death." Simple thing.
Brahmānanda: There is even some talk that he was wanting to join a monastery and live a life of austerity and contemplation.
Jagadīśa: He also favors a monarchy, a religious monarchy.
Prabhupāda: That is my philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Brahmācarya. Brahmācarya means completely cessation from sex life. This is brahmācarya. Tapasya begins, austerity. This is the greatest austerity, to cease sex. Tapasa brahmācarya. Our Vedic civilization, the boys are trained how to become brahmacārī from the very beginning of life.
Prabhupāda: So when you will be liberated? What is the standard of liberation?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: By performing austerities, by studying the...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is the standard?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: When I merge, when I lose my identity, when I don't...
Prabhupāda: That means you forget. You forget everything. Then how you will be liberated? Whatever little consciousness was there, that is finished. Then how you become liberated? Whatever you had, that is also finished.
Prabhupāda: Then if it is līlā, then why you are undergoing austerity? That is also līlā. If it is līlā, then why you are trying to get out of it by practicing austerity?
Harikeśa: Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: Ṛṣabhadeva, he performed austerity.
Prabhupāda: No, what...? I do not follow what you say.
Brahmānanda: He's saying that Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity, so therefore I am performing austerity.
Prabhupāda: You are performing but what is Ṛṣabhadeva's position?
Brahmānanda: He never claimed to merge with the supreme consciousness.
Dhanañjaya: But the whole thing is that the supreme consciousness is unembodied and we are embodied right now. So when we attain supreme consciousness we also become unembodied.
Prabhupāda: How you become embodied if you are supreme? Who made you embodied if you are supreme? Then who made you embodied, he is supreme. You are not supreme. You did not like to be embodied; therefore you are trying to be bodyless. But who made you embodied? Then that he or she is supreme. You are not supreme.
Brahmānanda: Yes. To be a dog, that's all right because the dog doesn't suffer. He is enjoying.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why you are doing austerity? Remain as dog and cat. Therefore you are mūḍha. You do not know what is suffering, what is enjoyment. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore one who is intelligent, jñāni, bahūnām jan... After suffering in this way and talking all nonsense, when he comes to the real knowledge, then he surrenders. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān maṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to... (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samādhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiraṇyakaśipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.
Mahāṁsa: Also another party of five devotees, they have started on the bullock cart saṅkīrtana, going village to village. But it's very austere. They were... I told them, "You go for two months, come back after two months." But they returned in six days. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Why?
Mahāṁsa: Because first of all, they did not know how to ride the bulls, so the bulls gave a lot of trouble.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no professional driver?
Mahāṁsa: Well, now we are going to hire one driver to take care of the bulls. And secondly, even the axle of the cart was a little defective. Otherwise the program was a great success.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is success. People were coming.
Harikesa: He says that if you renounce now, you can enjoy later. That if you take some austerity now, like meditation, abstaining from certain things, that later on you can enjoy sex life unlimitedly, have clear intelligence unlimtedly, and ultimately become the...
Prabhupāda: The Mahesh Yogi, TM. Transcendental meditation. But I don't think they say that if you undergo austerities you...
Harikesa: No, that was in the beginning they were saying...
Prabhupāda: Oh now he has changed!
Prabhupāda: So these people, they realize arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). By severe austerity and penances they rise to the Brahman platform, but from there they fall down. Why? Adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because brahmam platform means to be engaged in devotional service. Brahma bhūyāya kalpate. Mām ca yo'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena (BG 14.26). If you want to stay on the Brahmam platform, then you must render service to Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply realize that "I am Brahman," then you'll be misguided by māyā: "Oh, you are the Supreme Lord. You are Bhagavān. What is the use of worshiping another Bhagavān? You are Bhagavān." māyā says it in a different way. māyā says that you are a rascal, but think that you are Bhagavān.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity."
Harikeśa: It takes more austerity to control one's tongue by chanting and taking prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Even that is not achievement. To control the senses, that is not very great achievement. The great achievement, how we have become a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So that will include everything. You haven't got to prepare gold, but if you want gold, Kṛṣṇa will send you. So why should I try for that and waste my time? Let me become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: So he immediately left the place and went to his own mother, that "Stepmother has insulted me like this." He began to cry, and the mother said, "My dear son, what can I do? Your father does not treat me even as a maidservant, so I cannot take any step." "So how I can take revenge on it?" She said, "If Kṛṣṇa likes, then you can take revenge. Otherwise there is no possibility." "Where is Kṛṣṇa? I want to see Him." Child.... (Hindi) She said, "I have heard that Kṛṣṇa is in the forest. Big, big saintly persons go there and meet Him, so far I know, my dear son." "So I'll go there." So this four-year, five-years-old boy went to the forest, and he saw Kṛṣṇa within, Viṣṇu, within six months by his austerity, by meditating and observing austerity, living on water, on folio (foliage?), air, in this way, six months, he got the opportunity of seeing Viṣṇu directly.
Madhudviṣa: Because the Māyāvādīs, they also perform some austerity and tapasya.
Prabhupāda: Just to break the pot. That is their (indistinct)
Madhudviṣa: But what is the breaking of the pot?
Lokanātha: The pot doesn't refer to the body but the illusion. They want to get rid of not the body but the illusion.
Prabhupāda: No, illusion in this sense, that I am covered by the pot, it will break or I shall break, and when it is broken then there is no more pot. I become one with the sky.
Prabhupāda: And similarly, they will have to condemn. If they follow the wrong path, they will have the wrong result. This is not...
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Their leader, Mao Tse Tung, he was very austere, and he is very moral, and he has these purges where he takes the men who he sees are not..., or who are trying to use their position for their own power, and he takes it away from them. They are constantly going through these purges of their system to insure that no one enjoys more than others, at the expense of others.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Artificial, though.
Prabhupāda: So that is artificial way of.... Unless one is prepared to.... Just like why they are inducing persons to sacrifice their accumulated wealth for the state? Why? Communistic idea that everyone should be equal. So if somebody has more than others, they want to take it away. Just like in India this policy is now growing. So everyone should give away, but now it is being done by law, by force. But that will not stay.
Prabhupāda: And still we are living very comfortably.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Another proof is even when there are austerities, we do not mind to accept it because there is a higher pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have greater pleasure, that this austerity will please Kṛṣṇa. So we must do it. Our aim is how to please Kṛṣṇa. That is our argument.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first class. Again repeat that.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness."
Prabhupāda: So why they should not be educated to become first-class men on this basis?
Scheverman: That's right. I would agree that that is a worthy and very important goal.
Prabhupāda: So where is that institution who is teaching these things?
Kern: He said that the monastery did not teach this. I don't know if you can generalize about all monasteries.
Prabhupāda: I don't say monastery. I'm speaking that this is the way of training. Even a third-class born or fourth-class born could become a first-class man. This training should be given. There must be an institution how to become peaceful, how to become truthful, how to become honest, how to become religious, how to become believer in God. Why not this institution? They have opened institutions how to learn to deal the hammer, technology.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Austerity.
Prabhupāda: Austerity. Tapasya. Austerity means that naturally I am inclined to do something. Take, for example, generally people are addicted or inclined to eat meat or to drink. Natural. Not for all, but a class. But if I train him that "Although you like this, you should give up this," that is austerity. He feels some inconvenience in the beginning.
Scheverman: Austeritos is a Latin word that refers to strength. To be able to stand and be sharp and deciding.
Prabhupāda: So this is austerity, when voluntarily accepting something which he does not like to give up. That is austerity.
Prabhupāda: So in order to go to the highest status of life, he has to accept some austerity, tapasya. Especially for God realization. Austerity required. Then?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purity.
Prabhupāda: Purity. So our purity.... Not our—everyone. Externally, internally. Externally, by taking bath or cleansing the body with soap of something else. And internally, to remain God conscious.
Prabhupāda: Honesty. So there are so many things. If we want to make the whole human society very peaceful and happy, then we have to divide the society into four classes. Not that everyone will be peaceful. That is not possible. But if we have an ideal class of men who is following austerity, peacefulness, purity, knowledge, people will learn: "Oh, here is the ideal class."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have changed so many things. When I was a young boy they..., you had to be in church on Sunday morning very early, otherwise it was noticed. Now you don't have to be till later on. There is no more austerity in religion.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if their standard is demoniac to begin with...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are selling churches. Nobody is attracted. In London city there are so many churches closed. Nobody goes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore so many Vedantists, they first of all, they give up this world brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this world is false. But again they come down and they become busy in doing some philanthropic work, opening hospitals.... Why? If the world is false, why you are coming down again on this platform? That means they could not get any substance by their so-called renouncement of this world. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for going to that platform of siddhi, liberation, they had to undergo so much difficulties and austerities but still, even going there.... Just like these people are going to the moon planet and.... Actually whether they have gone or not, that is a doubtful thing, but the thing is, why they are coming down again? That is our challenge. If you have gone to the moon planet then colonise there. But why you have come down again and do not talk anything about.
Prabhupāda:
Prabhupāda: That illusion is over simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This is the first installment, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, and bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Then he is in the process to stop the blazing fire of material existence. Then vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Then the ocean of transcendental bliss increases. Ānandāmbudhi-vardanaṁ sarvātmānam snapanaṁ. Wholesale blissful life. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. All glories to the chanting of Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana. Then the other processes... That is described in the Śikṣāṣṭaka. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift, that kevalaya bhaktya. All the practices of austerities, penances, and mystic yoga, and so on, so on. There are so many things. Everything will be totally achieved simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Bhakti.
Hari-śauri: That's due to too much sinful activity? Too much sinful activity that they can't think that there's some divine influence?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education, fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing. That's all. The father says "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs, this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam. Just practice austerity to purify your existence.
Prabhupāda: ...cure the diseased condition of our existence, and then it will be cured. For that purpose, we have to execute austerity, penance, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena ca (SB 6.1.13). These practices are there. But there is one practice that is called bhakti. Kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parayanaḥ. One.... Vāsudeva-parayanaḥ, vāsudeva sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. When one understands that Vāsudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then he becomes the greatest mahātmā. That platform is achieved after many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate vāsudeva sarvam iti (BG 7.19). So Vāsudeva is canvassing, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender to Me, I shall give you all protection."
Dr. Sharma: Surrender He uses many places, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is not surrender. When you keep yourself in your so-called duty, that recommendation is there. But when you fully surrender, there is no more karma, everything is bhakti. And because you do not surrender, therefore He is recommending that you do your karma like this. But as soon as you surrender, you are above karma. Sa guṇān sama-tītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya, you are brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). So long you do not surrender, He is linking your activities with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "You do like this." Then one day you'll be able to surrender. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he wanted the kingdom better than his father, grandfather. So he had to undergo so much severe austerities. He got Kṛṣṇa. But when he got Kṛṣṇa, he said svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varam, "I don't want any benediction." So this position you can attain any moment, "My Lord, I surrender unto You. I don't want anything from You. Kindly give me shelter at Your lotus feet." This is the result of greatest tapasya. And Kṛṣṇa gives you protection. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So that is the highest perfection of life, to surrender to God without any reservations. Then life is perfect.
Bhagavān: Our restrictions? Yes, they are impressed. They sometimes write about the Gurukula that we are treating roughly the children by making them so austere. But every time they show the picture, the children are always happy.
Prabhupāda: They have standardized their happiness on these principles—illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling. That is the standard. And if you deny that, they say, "Oh, it is impossible. These are the primary principles of life." Yes. Such a big man like Rolan(?) said, he said, "Oh, it is impossible." He was a big man, philosopher, very nice gentleman; still, he said "Oh, it is impossible."
Prabhupāda: So-called jñānī, after many, many births, when he understands Kṛṣṇa and surrenders to Him, then he's jñānī. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyāsīs in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work.
Mrs. Sahani: Creates the desire to get knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Just like if you remain in touch with the fire, certainly you become warm. So if you remain always in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then you become Kṛṣṇized. Very easy. You haven't gone to the forest or Himalaya or meditate. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the śāstra: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). You cannot perform any severe austerities, penance. Wherever you remain, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And you become perfect. If not in one day... But you will become, if you continue chanting. And where is the difficulty? Where is the loss? And if there is some gain, why don't you try it? That is intelligence. I am not losing anything by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. If there is any gain, why not chant? Huh? Why is the argument not to chant? There is no loss, but if there is any profit, why don't you try to take it. Śāstra recommends. Kṛṣṇa recommends, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Find out this verse.
Jñānagamya: But your principle is austere, it's not...
Prabhupāda: So that you say.
Jñānagamya: That's what they say.
Prabhupāda: They say, but we say you are bad that you are enjoying simply sense gratification.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: To pass the examination, one must follow a strict, austere life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa, beginning tapasya, austerity. Brahmacarya, celibacy. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena (SB 6.1.13), controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Tyāgena, by renunciation. Satya-śaucābhyām, by following truthfulness and cleanliness. Yamena niyamena vā, by practicing yoga, yama-niyama. These are the different items of being qualified.
Prabhupāda: He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya, "Whatever nonsense you have learned-forget." Then what to do? Kāku-śataṁ bravīmi sakalam eva vihāya dūrād gaurāṅga-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. "You just become devotee of Lord Caitanya. I am flattering you, I am falling down on your feet"—this is preaching. And what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). And if you do that, then what is the result? Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). If one is doing like that, Kṛṣṇa immediately recognizes, "Oh, you are the best friend of Mine." So if you are recognized by Kṛṣṇa, then what you want more? You are undergoing so much austerities and... To be recognized by God.
Hari-śauri:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: And if I teach that "I'll teach you how to become truthful," they will laugh. People will say, "Can anyone exist nowadays, simply becoming truthful?" Then damaḥ, self-controlled. If I say, "Come here. I shall teach you how to control your senses," he will laugh, that "What is this nonsense? We shall enjoy life and shall control senses?" This is the description of the first-class man, śamo damas titikṣā ārjava, saralatā, simplicity. No one is prepared to become first-class man. They will laugh. These are all primitive ideas.
Jagadīśa:
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, suppose you are a well known philosopher. If you say, "There is God," so many people will hear: "Oh, here is a big philosopher." Therefore your studies of philosophy will be perfect when you establish, "Yes, there is God." Otherwise it is useless because you will waste your time and you'll waste... Already they are Godless.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly you will find the so-called sannyāsīs, not bhaktas, they undergo severe austerities, penances, but after some time they come to the worldly atmosphere. Because they could not get any place, therefore they come down. Just like the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they say that this duniyā, (world) jagat mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, you have left it, then why you come again to give some philanthropic service? If it is mithyā, then why you come again after so much? Is it not nonsense? If jagat is mithyā why you are coming again to this mithyā? That means you could not get place in the satya. Therefore you come down again. That is stated in the śāstra. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). Although with severe austerities and penances (he) might go to the paraṁ pada, patanty adhaḥ, anādṛta-yuṣmad, because he could not get shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, he falls down. He must fall down to the material activities. Patanty adhaḥ. That is adho patha. As soon as a person, after undergoing severe austerities, becomes very highly elevated in the sannyāsa stage, but if he cannot get shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then surely he shall fall down for these material activities, material enjoyment. That is the sign that he's fallen down.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rāmeśvara: He thinks it's too austere. He needs something more gradual.
Hari-śauri: He never liked India.
Rāmeśvara: But this is a good idea.
Prabhupāda: Then engage them.
Rāmeśvara: If he's willing, he could give speaking engagements. I tell you, America is just wide open.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why not take this... Suppose he is attracted by some woman. Let him dress like a gentleman and keep with the woman as husband and wife and preach. What is the wrong there? Whatever is done, you close up that chapter. Now you become a householder. There is no harm. And live as a gentleman householder and preach. But don't play duplicity in the dress of sannyāsī to keep private relations. That is not good. That is duplicity. Better openly become a respectable householder and serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main thing, either in this dress or that dress. So if you cannot keep yourself sincerely as a sannyāsī, then get yourself married. But you cannot keep the girl as friend. That is also not good.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's our "suar kavaca." Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got, especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants.... Small kiddies for sex. That sex desire is so strong from the very beginning of.... And no sense that "It is my mother."
Prabhupāda: "No, you remain... Come here with your wife, children. You remain gṛhamedhī."
Jagadīśa: New Vrindaban is very austere. If we build little bungalows with modern convenience...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Jagadīśa: There has to be some modern convenience.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Then we shall do that.
Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: She gave shelter, he gave?
Brahmānanda: He gave shelter, Yes. Mother Śīlavatī and this girl, they stayed with him. He very much admired mother Śīlavatī's austerity, how she was just taking a little milk, little vegetable and nothing else but always engaged. He was impressed.
Prabhupāda: Śīlavatī is in New York?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Where are her sons?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are in māyā. (Prabhupāda chuckles) She now engages in book distribution also.
Prabhupāda: No, she is very nice woman. From the beginning she is devotee. She is about fifty years old? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, at least fifty years old. Yes, her hair is gray.
Prabhupāda: And therefore I am so much on the..., that a man, harāv abhakta. He is bhagavad-bhakta. (Hindi) This is another proposition.
- bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya
- jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ
- aprāṇasyeva dehasya
- maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam
"Anyone who has no devotional life, for him, belonging to the great family great nation, jāti..." Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ tapaḥ. "All austerity, penance, everything is just like decorating the dead body." Just like a body minus life, so what is the use of decorating with sal and silcram(?). Similarly, any person who may be very highly posted, but if he has no bhagavad-bhakti, then it is decoration.
Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Last problem(?). Better to go back home as soon as possible. One life, do all penances, all austerities. Simply stick to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and the business is finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're sticking to your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Who knows the secret? It is in the Bhāgavata.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today I was reading a very beautiful section of Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa comes in the form of the spiritual master. And then that...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is a revelation of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So therefore those who are in need, they cannot be happy. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma (CC Madhya 19.149). Kṛṣṇa-bhakta doesn't want anything. Ataeva śānta. So he is... He is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I don't want. I am fully satisfied." Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest, underwent very severe austerity, and when Lord Viṣṇu appeared before him—"Take benediction, whatever you like"—he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more demand. I am fully satisfied." So this is the teaching. If we want to be fully satisfied, without any demand for sense gratification, then we become happy, and that is available in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. We don't want. People want money and many followers, nice wife, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu refuses.
Prabhupāda: Although he has knowledge, still, his knowledge is not purified. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). And because they cannot capture the real form of the Lord, they again fall down in this material world. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Falsely such persons think that "Now I have become liberated" without approaching the form of the Lord. Ye 'nye 'ravinda... Aravindākṣa: "One who has got lotus eyes." Ye 'nye... Ye anye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ: "Thinks of himself as he had become liberated." He may be liberated from material concept of life, but aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, because he could not understand, take, what is the form of the Lord, the result is āruhya kṛcchreṇa, with great austerity, he can come to the platform of nirguṇa Brahman, Parambrahman, but because naturally he is seeking after the reality... He does not get the reality, only eternity. Reality is bliss. Sac-cid-ānanda. That ānanda he does not get.
Prabhupāda: So this is direct process. Because Kali-yuga, they cannot actually undergo severe austerities, penances, vairāgya. Little difficult. Not difficult. Very difficult. But that is a special concession for this age. Because we are very fallen, we cannot undergo severe austerities, penances, yamena niyamena vā, brahmacarya. Very, very difficult. So Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, recommends that "Kali-yuga is full of faults." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājan: "It is a ocean of fault. But there is one great opportunity." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Specially for this age.
Prabhupāda: We have seen many persons... The other day, he was our member. One Mr. Agarwal? Very rich man. He committed suicide falling down from the bridge to the Ganges. What is that? Very rich man. The happiness cannot be attained in that way. Happiness is in Kṛṣṇa. It is so sublime that... Dhruva Mahārāja went for kingdom, and he performed austerities. When he saw Kṛṣṇa he said, "I don't want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I came to ask You something, but I am now fully satisfied." That is happiness. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir... yayātmā supra... (SB 1.2.6). You want to satisfy your ātmā. So that can be satisfied when you are fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise simply by material wealth, increasing your economic position, that is not... They do not know it. The European civilization, they are struggling very hard-colonization, industrialization, this... (end)
| Page Title: | Austerity (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Mayapur, Labangalatika |
| Created: | 02 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=115, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 115 |