Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas."
Attempt (Conversations 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in water. Soak it. Maybe if I feel hungry I shall take it. This is the condition of material world, simply harassing, this all these big, big government (indistinct). How to harass. The more you learn this art, how to harass, you become a big politician. Not para-upakāra. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Upadrutāḥ, disturbing. Adhibautika, one living entity is harassing another living entity, killing. So I have decided to construct a temple in Bhuvaneśvara. What do you think, shall I attempt?
Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission.
Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be... Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice... They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many gṛhastha devotees. You have got children. Pradyumna has got child. Gopāla has... Live with husband, wife. There is no restriction for husband and wife. But what is this nonsense that you take sannyāsa and make relation with...? This should be completely stopped. And in our, this campus, actually those who are eager to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should live, nobody else. We give free food, free apartment, cloth and everything. "Come here. Live. As far as possible we shall provide." But this is specially meant for bhagavad-bhajana. Attend ārati, early rise in the morning, attend the functions, take prasādam... In this way everything will be reorganized, not loose things. Then what is the use of...? We have got such a... And so far the tenants are concerned, if it is possible, give them money; let them go. One, two, some have gone, and others... This whole campus should be for devotees. We don't want tenant. And it should be developed for that purpose, for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Either here or outside India or anywhere, this principle should be followed. And this hodgepodge association, society, is not the... Let it be very pure. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā. That one moon is sufficient. There is no need of millions of stars. Hm? What do you think? One moon gives light. So, in this way, if we can make one person really Kṛṣṇa conscious, then our mission is successful. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling? What is called? Twinkling? You should discuss all these things, but you... These two brothers should be, P. Bannerji and M. Bannerji... The address is there. You can write as secretary, "Dear Sir, I am instructed by His Divine Grace Prabhupāda to thank you for your postcard dated such and such. And we condole for your bereavement in the absence of your father late, Principal N. Bannerji. You know that your father was intimately related with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he assisted him with some money, loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not. Now, after his death, you are worthy sons..."
Prabhupāda: Principal N. Bannerji.
Jagadīśa: "You know that your father was intimately related with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he assisted him with..."
Prabhupāda: "And Prabhupāda assisted him."
Jagadīśa: Okay. "And Śrīla Prabhupāda assisted him with some money loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not. Now, after his death, you are good sons behind him. You have observed the death ceremony very pompously. Why not repay the debts of your father so that he may live very peacefully in his next life? A line in reply will much oblige us. Yours sincerely, Secretary..."
Prabhupāda: Is that all right? Let us see how worthy sons they are. Everyone knows. They know. That Gauracandra Gosāi, Rādhā-Dāmodara, he knows. And I have got letters and everything... I... If I go to the court... And who is going to the court? I could have gone to the court, long, long ago. I never liked to go to the court. In my business life also, if somebody did not pay, I never go to the court. Bother... "To push good money after bad money." The money which is lost, and... And what about that money order?
Jagadīśa: I have instructed Girirāja to do it this morning.
Prabhupāda: Oh, again "instructed." No instruction. I want to see the receipt immediately.
Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."
Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Take... I think you have got nim leaf dried?
Hari-śauri: Not since we've been in India. We've been using fresh nim leaves.
Prabhupāda: You have got stock?
Hari-śauri: No. Not at the moment.
Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: "There are two legal cases in progress at this time that we must support—one in New York and one in Los Angeles. In New York the two ISKCON leaders have been indicted by the Queens County Grand Jury for unlawful imprisonment and attempted grand larceny. In Los Angeles, ISKCON and Madonna Slavin have accused her family of kidnapping, and charges of unlawful imprisonment have been entered against the mother and several other members of the Slavin family and two friends." These two friends are the professional deprogrammers. Then it says, "As in nearly all of these cases, the media will greatly influence the outcome. Do not underestimate the power of the media. We therefore must tell our story..."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's already become media.
Rāmeśvara: "We must therefore tell our story to them in great number, and in this way the world will hear of it. As of this date, HK," short for Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) They're chanting Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meaning, liberation. This is liberation, forcely separating from māyā. That they do not know. māyām etaṁ taranti te. Yes.
Rāmeśvara: "Hare Kṛṣṇa is known to hide out those whose families want them out."
Prabhupāda: Family?
Rāmeśvara: If the family wants them out, we have a reputation that we will hide them, so the family cannot get them. "One example is in the Queens case." That's Ādi Keśava Mahārāja. The charge of attempted grand larceny stems from an alleged extortion attempt against the Shapiro family by the temple leaders who wanted money from the parents and threatened to harm their son..."
Prabhupāda: This is false.
Rāmeśvara: "...unless the money was given."
Prabhupāda: This is false.
Guest (10): What's the difference between grace and mercy?
Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Indian man: Have seen the new light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're opposing me very vigorously in America.
Rāmeśvara: And none of the other Godbrothers had strong preaching spirits.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They also, when they saw that "This man is legally taking everything. Gauḍīya sannyāsīs, we cannot go home. We must have some shelter." No spirit of pushing on.
Rāmeśvara: Even by your example they have not learned anything.
Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me. So I was... In 1936 or '35 in Bombay, after installation of Deity, so—I was gṛhastha—I helped them to collect some money. All my Godbrothers applauded and recommended to Guru Mahārāja that "Abhay Babu is so influential. Why he lives outside the temple? He can become the temple commander and manage this Bombay temple. Why he is living outside?" Mean "Guru Mahārāja may ask him." So I was... From this Allahabad I was going to Bombay. I had one small office there. So after hearing, he said, "It is better that he is living little away from your Matha. And when time will rise, he'll do everything. He hasn't got to be advised." I could not understand why he said like that. That means he was so kind that he expected that I shall do something. That was my asset, his blessing. And I was thinking that "His, this mission must be done very nicely." Although I was not capable to do anything, I was thinking like that. So desire was there and maybe blessing was there. Yes. There was no question of qualification.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gurudāsa: Because you cannot stop anyway. (break)
Prabhupāda: What is Thela?(?)
Gurudāsa: He said that we should drive a little forward. (break) (train whistle, sounds of train starting)
Hari-śauri: (devotees attempting to get luggage on train before it starts) Those two go with the women, actually. Leave them down...
Abhirāma: Where should I leave them?
Hari-śauri: Arundhati. No, leave them in the car.
Abhirāma: Who is this for? Prabhupāda's? (doors opening and closing)
Gurudāsa: No, they won't leave.
Abhirāma: Please, nobody come in the hallway unless necessary. We've got to get everything in.
Hari-śauri: This is for... This is not coming in here.
Rāmeśvara: Not in this part. That should be stored.
Abhirāma: Just stick this in here right now.
Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda's case still has to come. Prabhupāda's suitcase is not on.
Devotee: Would everyone get out of the room? (voices, shuffling)
Hari-śauri: Is that your typewriter?
Devotee: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Rāmeśvara: What? Hardbound books?
Prabhupāda: No, no, this Back to Godhead.
Rāmeśvara: 750,000. It is averaging like that.
Prabhupāda: So the first attempt was only 20,000. I calculated. Anyway, Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facility. Let us utilize it to the best of our capacity. We have no other ambition. We want to see that everyone may accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and be happy. This is our mission. We have no other ambition, not to make any cost-profit. But when we see that so many people are reading Kṛṣṇa book, that gives us very good encouragement. Otherwise what...? Two capatis we can get anywhere.
Rāmeśvara: We wrote in the newsletter to the Society that even though our movement is being attacked is so many ways, the best counterattack is through book distribution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best answer to this opposition. And when the case is there, put all the books before the judge: "Now you read and give your judgment. Don't... You are learned lordship. Please read these books and give your judgment. We have got already judgment from the scholars." Present like that. "But still, because in your court it is presented, so we pray that you give your judgment after understanding our method of brainwash." That will make him flat.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They lie and say, "This president, he said, 'If you do not give us this money, we will let your son die.' "
Prabhupāda: In a different way.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Gargamuni: He didn't write it, did he?
Rāmeśvara: No, it was on the telephone. But he has been charged by a Grand Jury of attempted extortion.
Hari-śauri: They can never prove that. It's ridiculous.
Rāmeśvara: I have heard that now, this month, we have already been on the biggest television shows in America, big night shows. They have these shows that go two, three hours at a time, and everyone in America watches them. Forty million people watch them. So we've already been on those shows now. Our devotees have already been on those shows now because of this controversy. We're becoming more famous.
Prabhupāda: And they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Jayapatākā: You are getting everyone to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yadaiva śraddhāiva(?). Some way or other, let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that is being done, whole countrywide. It has become a national show. (laughter)
Gargamuni: They said our Māyāpur project is more advanced.
Rāmeśvara: This is the only movement now. All these other attempts have completely failed, at least in America. All the Indian teachers that have come to America are being exposed.
Prabhupāda: But they say Transcendental Meditation is going...
Hari-śauri: Six million.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, that's big because you don't have to give up anything. I met some of my old friends in New York, and I debated with them. And their philosophy is that this Transcendental Meditation is based on natural process of God consciousness, and our effort is all artificial. We are giving up meat, giving up sex—this is artificial. Their philosophy is that "If you continue meditating, one day automatically you'll give up these things. So why do it prematurely?"
Prabhupāda: No, but if one day you have to give it up, why not prematurely?
Rāmeśvara: Give it up when you are... By the Transcendental Meditation, twenty minutes a day, automatically you are purifying yourself naturally. Therefore that is more perfect.
Prabhupāda: No, if I can purify immediately, what is the wrong?
Rāmeśvara: He said it creates stress. By doing it artificially you create too much stress.
Prabhupāda: "No, we don't feel any... We do not feel any stress. You feel because you are unable to do it. But we don't feel it. We have given up... Since our spiritual master has said, we have given up, immediately. But you cannot do it," say.
Guest (1): ...in some ślokas.
Prabhupāda: In another place, Bhāgavatam, it is said, bhavauṣadhi. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is bhavauṣadhi. And one must have faith rigidly. Otherwise.... Kṛṣṇa is the protector. In Bengali it is said, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke: "If Kṛṣṇa wants to kill somebody, who can give him protection?" That faith we are losing at the present moment. We.... In India especially, we are born in a country where God descends as Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Buddha, Caitanya. Now they are asking, "What is God?" So the whole culture has to be revived. And this is an attempt, humble attempt, to revive our old culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We should join together. To this purpose we are attempting to open a center here. And Mr. Pandiya, how long you are here in...?
Mr. Pandiya: I'm here for the last six months, sir.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Before that, where you...?
Mr. Pandiya: Before that, I was at Berhampur.
Prabhupāda: So my guess was right. By seeing your face I asked you as some member of...
Mr. Pandiya: That's a terrific guess.
Prabhupāda: Bhāratī Mahārāja may be now about forty years? No. Little more.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: "But it's very complex situation that has to be dealt with."
Prabhupāda: Then why you are trying United Nation, rascal? It may be complex, but we must try for it in the proper way. That is humanity. Why you are attempting United Nation? You know it is complex. But you do not know how to unite. This is my position. Unite on Kṛṣṇa center. Then you'll be successful. You are already trying for uniting, unity, but you do not know how to unite.
Satsvarūpa: Just like you say there has to be a universal center.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: So if it's complex, at least we have to start with a universal center.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, you can. We... It is already there, United Nation Organization, UNO. So take the ideas. Why you are thinking of... What is that? WHO. World Organization or..., health?
Hari-śauri: World Health Organization.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Why you are trying for? Simply make a show? You are thinking already, but you do not know. Your world is your father, mother, and two sisters, that's all. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. That is your world. A little family, a little community, that is your world. We do not think in that way. We include even the animals, trees, plants-brothers. That is our philosophy. We feel. When you cut a tree unnecessarily, we feel. This is our feeling. Unless there is absolute necessity, we do not wish to kill even a tree, what to speak of animals. When in our Bombay the coconut trees were being cut, I was feeling actually: "Why unnecessarily the coconut trees...?" You cannot give anyone life, so how, what is living, you can kill? It may be tree or animal or plant. You cannot give him life. So you have to suffer for this.
Satsvarūpa: We have instruments, calculations.
Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect, because you have prepared. You are rascal; your instrument is rascal. How a rascal can manufacture something perfect? How it is possible? Hm? Anything we attempt to get, knowledge, is imperfect. Only perfect knowledge is when you get it through the perfect person. The same example: you cannot make experiment or speculation who is your father. The only right information—from your mother, that's all. Finish. Otherwise, everything speculation. How you'll rightly understand your father? Except the mother's statement, what is the next alternative? Hm? Is there any?
Gurukṛpā: We're looking. You can ask everybody, every man on the street.
Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. It will never be perfect.
Satsvarūpa: Because English is the language of the invaders; Sanskrit...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have no objection, English. But if they wanted that national language, why not take Sanskrit? I am international. I don't believe in this national or statewise. I never believed. This is very good idea, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). God is the proprietor. He is the original father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Why do they not take this philosophy? They have attempted this United Nation organization. And where is the philosophy how to make one state? That is cheating them. Why not make one state?
Hari-śauri: They actually don't desire that.
Prabhupāda: No.
Hari-śauri: They can speak, "United Nations," but...
Prabhupāda: The barking, dog's bark. Otherwise, what... They do not attempt it. Why not make one state—the whole world? Keep the democracy, but make one state, "United States of the World." Why "United States of America"? Make English language common language and "United States of the World." If they organize, they can do it. Just like United States has included Hawaii. They are not actually of the same blood. They are not European. So how they are managing Hawaii? Hawaii is a different stock. It is from Chinese.
Hari-śauri: Polynesian actually.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is actually a type of Chinese people. That, our Bali-mardana's wife, belongs to that stock. But in order to elevate her she represents that "I belong to the Japanese." (laughs) but I have studied. She belongs to that Hawaii. Maybe her father or somebody was respectable or rich man in that Hawaii, but she does not belong to Japan. She is that Hawaiian-Chinese stock. So the United States, they have included this and going on nice. Their position is now secure. Nobody can invade. The Japanese tried to invade Pearl Harbor. Then finished. Atom bomb. The atom bomb was dropped on account of their attempt to invade this Pearl Harbor. In Honolulu there is Pearl Harbor.
Hari-śauri: Yeah. They would never have entered the war unless... They weren't going to enter the war...
Prabhupāda: These poor Japanese, in two, three wars they attempted to expand. They are very poor in their land. Practically they have no place, very poor. Only by some technical knowledge they are maintaining. Otherwise they have no food, no shelter. Very poor country. I have studied. The Dai Nippon directors, they are living in a thatched house. And their system is: big company, they supply everything—food, cloth, medicine, children's education, and little salary. So people do not leave the post.
Prabhupāda: It means few dollars.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Three or four hundred dollars.
Prabhupāda: In taxi in the beginning, I saw, "Three hund..., three thousand dollar." So (laughs)... And "Three thousand yen." So I did not know. I have got... They changed. Not dishonest. Honest or dishonest, I did not know. Whatever they took and returned, that's all. But I know they are not dishonest. They are nice people, hard worker, honest. But Japanese... This Tojo attempted that "This is the time for expanding with German help." Bad luck. They could not do. They wanted to keep China under their control. That also failed. They fought with the Russians in the beginning, when we were children, to expand-failed. This time they wanted to occupy Hawaii.
Hari-śauri: They had many, many islands. They took a lot. But gradually the Americans won them all back.
Prabhupāda: Now they are migrating. In Hawaii there are many Japanese. Many Japanese.
Hari-śauri: They're very much wanted in other countries as well. They're technicians.
Prabhupāda: So if you can educate people, they will be united. This is actually united nations movement. Actually see how these Europeans, Americans, and Africans, and others, without any artificial allurement, how we are keeping together. Nobody is dissatisfied with humble eating, humble living, humbly, plain living. So it is possible. There is possibility. We live simple life, high thinking-United Nation. We can possibly... And there will be no scarcity. If we live simple life with Kṛṣṇa conscious thinking, There will be no scarcity.
Prabhupāda: But Japanese are very intelligent, Bengalis are intelligent, by taking fish and rice. In Bengal ninety percent people, they take fish. Here also, Orissa, cent percent, even the Jagannātha pūjārīs. In Bihar also, fifty percent. The more you go towards Western part of India, you get more wealthy province, just like Uttar Pradesh, very wealthy province, enlightened. All the big cities are there: Allahabad, Kanpur, Agra, Lucknow. Every hundred miles you get a very nice city in UP, the best province in India. All the holy places-Vṛndāvana, Prayāga, Hardwar, Ayodhyā, many celebrated holy places. Ganges and Yamunā flowing, two sacred rivers. Both of them through in Uttar Pradesh. And all the cities are either on the bank of the Yamunā or Ganges. And that is the best province, state, in India. It has got fifty districts. And fifty districts means fifty towns. Little more or less important. But the Kanpur is the third important city in India. First Calcutta, Bombay, and next, Kanpur.
Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?
Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.
Satsvarūpa: Politics.
Prabhupāda: Government.
Satsvarūpa: International government.
Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?
Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.
Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)
Prabhupāda: So why the scientists die?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Why scientists die?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do not make some arrangement so they'll not die?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, they are making, today they are making an attempt. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Same thing. All the scientists, past, present—everyone is dying.
Indian (1): They will not die then they will make themself to society, you know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Here is the... Here is our last counteracting statement from Pasteur.
Hari-śauri: Shall I read it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent.
Gargamuni: They never talk about Vivekananda. They don't like him.
Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. He brought three women with whom he had intimate connection. That is very easy to make intimate connection with woman in America. With money also. He brought. And with their money. Aurobindo also, the same thing. With woman's money they became rich, not like me, with hard labor of writing books and selling. I could also do. There was chance. But this is not my business to make intimate relation with woman and get money. I could do. There was chance. When attempt was failed, the man who introduced that woman to me, he one day said, "I have seen many swamis, but none like you." (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in an audience like that, in, let's say, one hour lecture, we cannot say that "You go to the temple and chant and do all these things."
Prabhupāda: No, that is later on. First of all you have to accept that there is original father. That is God. Now, how to realize that God, that is another detail.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we made an attempt... I made an attempt to show this, that bhakti-yoga is science, but it is a subtle science. But it has...
Prabhupāda: To understand God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It needs to...
Prabhupāda: It is a science. It is the only science by which you can understand God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kali-yuga.
- dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra
dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā duḥkha lāge haspar(?)
Tulasī dāsa has said, "In the Kali-yuga, dudha, milk—no customer. And surā, wine-baitale vikāra.(?) It is sitting down in one place, and customers are going there: "Give me. Give me one after another, one after..." Surā, wine, is so impure that it should not be touched. That is selling in one place very comfortably. Dudha? Gali gali phire: "Will you take milk? Will you take milk?" Dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra, dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā. Kali-yuga dhanya tomāra.(?) "Your pastime..." Duḥkha lāge haspar, "I am very sorry, but at the same time, I am laughing." (laughs) "Although I am very sorry, but still, I am laughing." This is Kali-yuga.
dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra
dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā duḥkha lāge haspar(?)
And in Vedic civilization, animal is being attempted to be killed—"Oh! Who are you?" "Kali-yuga." "Get out!" This is rāja, king. And there is nobody to protest. So many animals are being killed. This is Kali-yuga. Why? "They are my subject. You cannot touch." Kṛṣṇa is embracing gopīs and the calves also, not that He has selected only gopīs to be embraced. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). "Anyone who loves Me... Loves or not, I am protecting." Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's giving protection to everyone. And if he is a devotee, a special protection. This is God, and government means God's representative, God's, not people's representative. Government does not mean people's representative. Government means God's representative. That is government. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for the loafer class. It is meant for the rājarṣi. Unless the kings and big, big stalwart leaders understand this science, how they will lead? Because these leaders, they do not understand Bhagavad-gītā, they make their own plan. Therefore so much catastrophe, chaotic condition. It is meant for the rājarṣi. Big, big government officer, big, big kings, presidents, ministers. They should understand it. And government is making law, "No Bhagavad-gītā in the school, college," because they do not know the value. (break) ...Kali-yuga. "Kali-yuga, thank you very much." Dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā. (break) Thank you.
Prabhupāda: We are machine?
Hari-śauri: Can't think for yourself.
Brahmānanda: They say that we have no freedom of choice.
Prabhupāda: Children has got also the same thing. Why the father stops? Children want to play. They do not like to go to school. Father does not like it. Is that father's attempt to check the child's freedom? Every father is doing that. The government is doing that. Why government is checking criminality? Hm? Why government chastising those who are criminals?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because what they are doing is not good for themselves and for others.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What the criminal does is not good for himself nor for anyone else. So the government chastises them.
Prabhupāda: What is the definition of criminality?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One who breaks the law of the government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is the law of government? The law of government is to give the citizen best life. So similarly, if we are trying to give them best life, why we should be checked? We are asking them, "No meat-eating, no gambling," so is that bad instruction?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By their definition it may be.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then, after reading, they become convinced and then they joined.
Prabhupāda: So let us do our duty. Our attempt Kṛṣṇa will see. That gentleman has written, "Swami Bhaktivedanta will be remembered for centuries, making history." Is not that?
Satsvarūpa: "Unsurpassed," this... Not just remembered, it will be unsurpassed.
Prabhupāda: And many foreign scholars also, they have. In France... In France one professor has said, "The..."
Satsvarūpa: Chenique?
Prabhupāda: "...Aurobindo and Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have compromised with the Western idea, but here is the real tradition of India." Actually that's a fact. All of them, they have tried to make a hodgepodge. And from the beginning my idea was I shall present as it is. That's all. Therefore I gave this name, "As It Is." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Why shall I manufacture idea? Present this as it is. All right. Let us do our duty. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) So at any cost, I am still dictating. I'll go on dictating so long I live. That's all. But this is very nice program, our farm program. practical. So if possible, Paramānanda may come and teach them.
Prabhupāda: I do not remember, but may be.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So. Anyway, he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board because he's a big tea importer, so he has connections. So he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board. They're so dishonest. Even this is the five-star hotel. It's a big hotel in Calcutta, one of the two or three best, and they're so dishonest that as soon as a foreigner comes, they can figure out where the valuables are and they steal it. And most people will let them get away with it. He may not, because he's got so many connections. But it's so dishonest. Even they make an attempt to cultivate tourism and be professional but-spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Hotels are always unreliable. They have got duplicate key.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even during Sanātana Gosvāmī's time, that hotel-keeper.
Prabhupāda: Hotel you should not go simply by locking. Somebody must be there. Otherwise they have got duplicate key.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They just stole the whole suitcase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They have got duplicate key. They can take.
Yes.
Prabhupāda: Where is that miśri? No, we have to fight. Devise means, ways, how to fight. That's all. But try to prove that they have no brain. Actually that is the fact. Nobody has brain, especially in this age. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha means one who has no brain. Mūḍha, this word, applies to the ass, because ass has no brain. He works so hard for little grass, which is available everywhere. But still, he thinks that "This washerman is giving me grass." Therefore mūḍha. He'll stand at the door of the washerman whole day, eating little grass, which he can get anywhere. So that is mūḍha. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Bas. And anyone who is a mūḍha, he does not know Kṛṣṇa. So so long we do not know Kṛṣṇa, we shall remain mūḍha-ass. That's the fact. The whole system is to understand Kṛṣṇa. But one does not know Kṛṣṇa, so he remains mūḍha, and therefore all his attempt is baffled. (Bengali) (break) ...speaking that "Everyone who is not a kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he's a gādhā." Do you believe in this or not, first of all? Unless you are firmly convinced, you cannot say strongly. (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa-bhakta naya ei sei gādhā. (Bengali) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (Bengali) (break)...must be intelligent. Otherwise how can I say that you are rascal if I am in the same category? So that I was explaining in the morning. Where is your brain? And mūḍha is one who has no brain. (break) Wherefrom consciousness comes? Where is consciousness? What is that consciousness? You have to explain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They applauded at that meeting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows about, anything about Caitanya, why should he say like that? Bogus temple. By attempting to establish a temple like that, he has diminished his value. And therefore it is doubtful whether he actually obtained this. Now, our Bon Mahārāja also writes "Doctor."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchased title. These deprogrammers are doing very active campaign work by getting entry into the schools, the public schools, to speak to the children in the age groups of twelve, between twelve and fifteen, junior high school, high school age. And they're making presentations to them about these different groups like ours, to beware of our groups. To beware of our groups. In other words, it's actually very bad because these children are innocent, and from a very young age now they're being told, "Watch out for the Hare Kṛṣṇas. They will brainwash you." Of course, that makes us even more appealing.
Prabhupāda: That is our advertisement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can get this light on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Washington, March 18th. The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement was called a 'bona fide religion' yesterday by the New York high-court justice who threw out two charges against the officials of the movement of 'illegal imprisonment' and 'attempted extortion.' A charge had been preferred by an angry parent that his son, as well as another disciple, had been held by the movement illegally and that they had been brainwashed. 'The entire and basic issue before the court,' said the Justice in dismissing the charges, 'is whether or not the two alleged victims in this case and the defendants will be allowed to practice the religion of their choice, and this must be answered with a resounding affirmative.' Said Mr. Justice John J. Lee, 'The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is a bona fide religion with roots in India that go back thousands of years. It behooved Merrilee Kreshower and Edward Shapiro to follow the tenets of that faith, and their inalienable right to do so will not be trampled upon.' " This is all quote. " 'The separation of Church and State must be maintained. We are and must remain a nation of laws, not of men. The presentment and indictment by the Grand Jury was in direct and blatant violation of the defendants' Constitutional rights.' The Justice said that it appeared to the court that 'The people rest their case on an erroneous minor premise to arrive at a fallacious conclusion. The record is devoid of one specific allegation of a misrepresentation or any act of deception on the part of any defendant.' The Justice said, 'The freedom of religion is not to be abridged because it is unconventional in its beliefs and practices or because it is approved or disapproved by the mainstream of society or more conventional religions. Without this proliferation and freedom to follow the dictates of one's own conscience in this search for the approach to God, the freedom of religion will be a meaningless right as provided for in the Constitution. Any attempt, be it circuitous, direct, well-intentioned or not, presents a clear and present danger to this most fundamental basis and eternally needed right of our citizens-freedom of religion.' "
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has been under pressure from various groups, and this judgment is expected to stop some of the harassment to which it has been subjected in recent months."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very good.
Prabhupāda: So you purchase some copies.
Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important. This man is senior man too in the courts, very old, conservative.
Prabhupāda: But I think he's sincere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he's God-believing. This statement that he makes at the end, this statement that "Any attempt, be it circuitous, direct, well-intentioned or not, presents a clear and present danger to this most fundamental basis and eternally needed right of our citizens." "Eternally needed right." Freedom of religion.
Prabhupāda: So we should send him a letter of congratulations. "May God bless you for such right judgment. Be... Live long life to serve God." Like that, make a nice... That is our mission.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very honest and sincere people normally appreciate our movement. Only those who are envious...
Prabhupāda: Envious we don't care for. We don't mind. Never care for them. I didn't care anyone, any times, even my Godbrothers. Neither I care just now. I'll go on with my... Why? We are doing our duty. That's all. Under higher authoritative order. Have no fear. It is not personal gratification. So arrange for Manipur. We shall go. Let us go.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is nice.
Bali-mardana: I think you saw Them when you went there. They were there last time, you went. Right?
Prabhupāda: The face is inproportionate.
Bali-mardana: Proportion is not correct.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, this is an attempt. It will improve by doing more work. Why there is no light in the veranda? (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...here. And at the end is a full report on Germany. That's the last country. (break) ...who actually began the standing orders in India. That's what... They began the year after festival last year in India and then began Europe.
Bhūgarbha: Gargamuni Mahārāja told us that it was not possible to do standing orders in India. So we started it, and now he has taken over.
Ghanaśyāma: (laughter) (break) They want to buy the book themself. (break) ...and sell them to individuals.
Prabhupāda: That I was proposing
Satsvarūpa: This man, Ghanaśyāma...
Prabhupāda: I proposed to you?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And in Bombay-before we get bad name—then it is lost.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything has to be set up beforehand perfectly.
Prabhupāda: If required, we shall appoint professional man and keep everything very vigilant; things are going. Otherwise, once bad reputation—finished, so much attempt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Mr. Chagriya should be able to give a lot of guidance and advice. I spoke with him a few years ago.
Prabhupāda: But he did not. Theoretical.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has those hotels, Sea Palace Hotel. Svarūpa Dāmodara still has not come.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no hope of going to Manipur.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Satsvarūpa: And we discussed the sannyāsa recommendations. No one who was recommended last year for sannyāsa was approved this year. During the year they did not prove well. No one is here for initiation. And for next year no recommendations were made. Then... One man... And I was accepted as editor in chief of Back to Godhead. The details of the editorial policies that I should follow, I can take in consultation from my other GBC Godbrothers. And further, in an attempt to set a uniform standard so that Back to Godhead is like scripture, I should function as editor for all Back to Godheads published in the various languages. In this I should work in cooperation with the co-editors and BBT trustees of the various foreign language BTGs. There may be various co-editors of those magazines, but I will be responsible to keep a uniform standard.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: That is my mission. I am doing that. I am bringing money from America. Nobody's paying me. It is not joke, ten lakhs of rupees. Who brings?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even big export companies don't bring so much.
Prabhupāda: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.
Hṛdayānanda: Your Bombay project is very impressive. We've just taken a tour.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one lakh of rupees I gave this thief Nyer: "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had already played the trick with one man.
Prabhupāda: Still, I took the risk that "I have no money. If he cheat me, that's all, but let me attempt."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you installed the Deity as soon as possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately Akash Ganga left. All Kṛṣṇa's desire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is appreciating how wonderful this project is, all of Bombay.
Prabhupāda: So much obstacles, one after another, one after another, one after another.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa would not leave.
Prabhupāda: No. That was my request: "Please sit down here tight. Then I shall do everything."
Pañcadraviḍa: Practically, Girirāja has not left either.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has not trembled in any circumstance. That is his qualification. That nasty, hot, mosquitoes. You also lived there. No gentleman can live.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He formerly helped us?
Girirāja: Yes. When Mattrey was, did that demolition attempt, so he was one of the leaders in the corporation. So he fought for us. In fact today also he asked if there was any trouble, because he still is also maintaining his position in the municipal corporation. So I think when he gets back from Delhi in a week, I might bring up some of our little problems.
Prabhupāda: That plan sentence.(?)
Girirāja: Yeah. And that road, that ten feet.
Prabhupāda: What benefit they will get?
Girirāja: No, only harassment, they have... They have nothing to gain actually. And everyone knows it. But they are just so weak and political minded that they don't want to stand up against Mattrey, the officers. Anyway, I think I should go now then.
Prabhupāda: He is coming?
Girirāja: Yes. I'll bring him here so there will be no unnecessary waiting. And...
Prabhupāda: What time?
Girirāja: By eight at the latest. We'll try for earlier also. (break)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Mr. Rajda: No, it is standing and very nice temple.
Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Let them study Bhagavad-gītā seriously. Let there be serious student to understand, to explain, and everything will be... There must be sadācāra.
Hari-śauri: (reads) Purport. "Activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or acting for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa without expectation of sense gratification is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed. Otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in the material activity, without one hundred percent success, there is no profit. Ajāmila performed his duty in some percentage of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer
- bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
- yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ
- ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ
- (SB 1.5.17)
If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly? (SB 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body, but work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness carries the person again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brāhmaṇa or in a rich aristocratic family that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.
Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"
Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.
Mr. Koshi: Is it somewhat similar to the... (break)
Prabhupāda: We are preaching what Kṛṣṇa says. We do not mind what others says. There may be similarities, there may not be similarities. It doesn't matter. But we are concerned with the instruction that Kṛṣṇa says. I haven't got to tally what Kṛṣṇa says and what you say. I have no business to do that. We are simply concerned what Kṛṣṇa says. Now if you like, you can take it. If you don't like, you take your own. But we are speaking only on Kṛṣṇa. So our lamentable subject matter, subject is that India has got so great exalted knowledge on Bhagavad-gītā, and the government has got Cultural Department, and all leaders, at least they are supposed to give support to Bhagavad-gītā. Why they are not taking seriously and give it to the...? And they are taking it seriously. My single attempt to preach the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, they are accepting it all over the world. Why not give it an organized way. All the Indian leaders, they are simply imitating jumping like the Western people.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To Mr. Francois Pierre. "My dear Francois." He's in France. "Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated March 17th. Try to understand our mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The world is all going to hell. They do not know what is the value of life. Like blind sheep following a blind leader, they are all going to the slaughterhouse. Human life is meant for saving, but instead the leaders are keeping the people in darkness. This is suicidal. Let us try to save them. Christian, Hindu, or Muslim, it doesn't matter. One must have faith in God. But if one does not know what is God, then what is the question of religion? This sectarian view has caused havoc in the world. Our real business is to know God and one's relationship with God. Do you know what is God? The answers to your questions are as follows: 1) Yes, the message of Jesus is universally applicable. Why not? Jesus says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' This is applicable to all. But all Christians are violating this law. So where is a Christian? In my opinion there is not a single Christian. Do they follow all ten commandments? 2) We accept Jesus Christ as śaktyāveśa-avatāra, an empowered incarnation of God. 3) The Bible should be accepted literally and not symbolically. There is no symbolical meaning of the sacrifice on the cross. The people were so rascal. They attempted to kill him because he was speaking of God. We can understand the position of that society. He had to deal with such rascals. He preached 'Thou shalt not kill,' and they killed him. The argument that Jesus died to redeem us of sins is simply another sinful argument. That Jesus has taken contract to redeem your sins is simply a plea of the sinners. They continue sinning and expect Christ to take the contract to freedom. It is most sinful. Instead of actually stopping sins, they contract with Jesus Christ. These people should be immediately hanged. That way our..., they say, 'That way our religion is very good. We cannot stop sinning, but it is okay because Christ has taken contract to save us.' It is the same as saying 'I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa now. I can do any nonsense.' That is known as nāma-aparādha, offenses to the holy name of the Lord. 4) Regarding Christ coming again, for the time being, you follow his instructions. Then if he comes it will be all right. Regarding the position of our movement if Christ were to come again, that we shall see when he comes. 'The end of the world' means that the world will be devastated. Just like you have a body and it will be finished, similarly the whole world body will be devastated. Creation, maintenance and annihilation. Naśa in Sanskrit means devastated. 5) There is no difference between a pure Christian and a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa. 6) Everything is accurately described in the Bhāgavata Mahāpurāṇa. Love of God means God's mercy. If God is pleased, He will do anything. The pleasure of God can be awarded by God. In Sanskrit it is described kṛpā-siddhi, perfection out of mercy. One must follow the four regulative principles—no eating meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication; no gambling; and no illicit sex life. Repent of all sinful activities and depend on Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Hoping this meets you well, your ever well-wisher, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami."
Girirāja: Very nice. Actually, about two years ago there was a propaganda in the West that if you are afraid of sinning, then it means that you don't have full faith in Jesus Christ. Because he has promised to accept your sinful reactions. So therefore if you sin, then it means that you have full faith that he will accept the reaction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said those people should be hanged immediately.
Prabhupāda: When the Bible has said, that after death one goes to hell or heaven? If Jesus Christ has taken a contract, then where is the question of going to hell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that is for people who don't sign the contract with him. That is what they say. As long as you say that you accept Jesus, then you are going to heaven for sure.
Prabhupāda: So then Jesus Christ accepted sinful reaction of a certain class of men. He is not universal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): That I am doing at home.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say that we are inviting, people may come, live peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is an attempt. Otherwise, we could have built some apartment house... (break)...the J.P.?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.
Prabhupāda: What is that picture?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "Handicapped though, these foursome make a cheerful group as they paddle along on three wheelers every day from their homes in the King George Memorial Infirmary on Jagtap Marga, Maha-Lakshmi." Some invalids. "Mr. Jaya Prakash Narayan in a statement on Sunday came out strongly against the attempts of some people to lobby through him for personal favors and advancements from the Janata party government center." He doesn't like it. Everyone is going to him now. (pause) "The aim and object of the 42nd constitutional amendment was stated to be to establish the supremacy of the legislature, but in fact it was designed to establish the absolute authority of the executive as personified by the Prime Minister, according to Mr. C. K. Dapteri, former attorney general of India. Mr. Dapteri said, 'Everyone knows that misuse to which the power of preventative detention has been put in the last eighteen months. It is not necessary to recall or relay instances. But the power itself is so easily capable of being put to wrong use that it is unsafe to leave it in the hands of the executive government.' "
Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.
Prabhupāda: And Morarji is very religious person.
Mr. Rajda: Yes, he is a highly religious man.
Prabhupāda: So why not attempt? At least keep an ideal institution. Just like for technical knowledge, if there is a good medical college any part of the world, people go there without any consideration of nationality or anything. Similarly let there be an ideal institution in India so that the whole world will come in there.
Mr. Rajda: We had those universities, Taka(?), Silandar(?), and Narandhara...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Rajda: ...in ancient days.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Rajda: And people from all over the world were coming.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you invite now?
Mr. Rajda: Quite.
Prabhupāda: So unless there is something substantial... They are intelligent.
Mr. Rajda: Intelligent people.
Prabhupāda: Why they should accept this? And this is one man's attempt.
Mr. Rajda: It has got to be institutionalized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not make that? This political change, this political situation change, it will go on. Today you are powerful. Tomorrow I am powerful. That does not make any difference. Indira Gandhi was so powerful. In one day everything finished. So it may be finished, my position. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. They do not know, behind these all activities there is a person who can do anything He likes. So what about to know about Him? So these things are there in India. The knowledge is not secret. It is open. So without distorting it, without breaking it and spoiling it, why not give it as it is for the benefit of the whole humanity? You are young man. You can think over.
Prabhupāda: That is being done all over the world. If you simply understand this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ... (BG 2.13). So today I am Indian, and after death I become something else. There are 8,400,000 different bodies. Today I may be very exalted minister, and tomorrow, if I become something else... I'll have to, because nature's law, you cannot check. Tathā dehānt... Just like here is child. You cannot check to become young man. That is not in your power. She must become or he must become. Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, it is not in your hand or in my hand. It is in the hand of the prakṛti. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). So there are so many things that... The human society requires this knowledge and we are trying to give this knowledge alone with our humble attempt, and these foreigners are helping with their prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā, by their life, by their money, by their intelligence, by their words. (aside:) Give them pad. They cannot sit comfortably. There is pad. Give him. Pads. Yes. No, no. Oh. (Hindi) Sukham asinaḥ.(?) First of all one must... Give her. So we have got, at least in Bombay, the most important place in India, this institution. So come here. Try to understand the philosophy. There is no difficulty. But we neglect it. We are simply ne..., and distorting. Everyone is giving his own interpretation. Eh? Then when, where is the importance of Kṛṣṇa? If Bhagavad-gītā is a book who is authority, and if you interpret and give your own interpretation, then where is the authority? Suppose Parliament passes one law, and if I interpret in my own way, then where is the authority of the law? This is the idea. If you want to give some idea of your own, give it separately. Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā and distort it? This is not gentlemanly, this. We are presenting, therefore, Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being accepted. And before me so many swamis, yogis went there. They also tried to explain Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody accepted. There was... In the history there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa before my going. Now there are thousands. Why? The secret is that I am presenting as it is.
Mr. Rajda: As it is, quite.
Prabhupāda: No distortion, no cheating. This is the secret. They give me credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful. You have done..." I say the secret of wonderful is this, that I have not distorted it. I have presented Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is open secret.
Mr. Rajda: That creates... It has created... Your attempts have created a good impact on the Western world.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing(?). But we have rejected. Our misfortune is that our property, we have rejected.
Mr. Rajda: Instead of rejecting, it would be correct to say that we have locked it up.
Prabhupāda: That means we don't take any importance. But now, if you want to do something, then you maintain this institution rigidly, follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. It doesn't require many men. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient. You don't require millions of stars, twinkling. So let there be an institution, and it is open to everyone. There is no question of "secular" and particular.... Let them learn this art. That is wanted. Not blindly, but apply your consideration and take it after mature judgment. No, what is that? Everything is there. There is no difficulty. Why you are neglecting this important business of India? Do you think it is right?
Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. It is meant for the rulers, rājarṣi, not for the loafers. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. (Hindi) Our, this monarchy was there, but they were rājarṣis, monarch, at the same time, great saintly person. Therefore they were worshiped, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. They are not autocrat. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. They understood the science of Bhagavad-gītā from saintly person, exalted brāhmaṇas. They ruled. You'll find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam this Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Arjuna. His father died when he was in the womb of his mother. So all, everyone died. Only these five brother remained. And Parīkṣit Mahārāja, the grandson of Arjuna, he was in the womb of his mother Uttarā. So he was also attempted to be killed by Aśvatthāmā by brahmāstra. Kṛṣṇa saved him. So anyway, the grandfathers took care of this child, baby in the womb. And when he was born... This is a ceremony, jāta-karma. Just after birth there is a ceremony. This is now gone, daśa, daśa-karaṇa... Nobody is... So they are making horoscope, the brāhmaṇas. "So this child will be like this, like this, like this, like this," Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja's question was that "What you are speaking, that is all right. Whether this child will be to their forefathers' reputation, how to give happiness to the subjects, praja-pālana?" He was anxious, "How much he will be qualified, praja-pālana, how to keep the prajas very happy? First of all see that." This was the test, praja-pālana. And it is stated in this Bhāgavatam... Now find out this ruling of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, that chapter, first part. So there was not even disease during his reign. Adayo vyadhayaḥ.(?)There was no extreme heat, there was no extreme cold, on account of his rājarṣi. And their only business was to see... And Lord Rāmacandra. How He was maintaining subjects like father. Therefore people are still hankering after rāma-rājya. There is a chapter, "Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's Regime." See the Contents.
Prabhupāda: About the land and cows, this is Bhagavad-gītā, mentioned, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Never recommends factory. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). So there is no question of giving protection to the cows if it gives milk only. No. Go-rakṣya. There must be protection to the cow. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even the cows pass urine and stool, that is beneficial. And if it gives milk, then there is no question. Hm. What is that?
Lokanātha: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly King Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and the war fields at the whims of a particular man?
It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should man not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which, combined together, can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes. Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The King at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity and nonviolence?
Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal man.
We are all creatures of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Lord Himself is the seed-giving father and material nature is the mother of all living beings in all shapes. Thus mother material nature has enough foodstuff both for animals and for men, by the grace of the Father Almighty, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The human being is the elder brother of all other living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the Almighty Father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."
Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education. (Hindi) Provided we train at least some ideal men, everything can be done. Everything is there. There is no scarcity of knowledge in India. We have to simply take it and practically apply it, bas. (Hindi) We are not sentimental (laughs) religious group. Everything practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not like that, sentiment. Everything scientific, practical, for the good of the whole human society. Therefore I require that this must be pushed on for the whole human society, and naturally India also. (aside:) The prasādam arrangement is...? You give each item, one each... No, no, give me, give me, give... This is... Each item, you give one. I have got this ambition that Indian culture should be spread, and otherwise what can I do wherever...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was a little surprised to hear such a strong statement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And actually it is a fact. Some dogs barking. "I am bulldog." "I am this dog," "I am that dog." And they waste so much energy, money and time, simply for barking. The result is nothing, no United Nations. Every day a flag is coming. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya.(?) Bharam Prahlāda Mahārāja says, bharam udvahate vimūḍhān. These rascals, they are making simply big, big arrangement. The result is nothing. Bharam udvahate vimūḍhān. And they remain rascal. But attempt is very gorgeous. "Oh, United Nations. Three hundred thousand flags in the..." Just see! Honorable flags. They offer obeisances to the flag, not to God. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ namaskuru. "No. Flag namaskuru." Just see how rascal they are. What he will gain by offering obeisances to the flag?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Born as a cockroach in that country.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line.
Guest (2): Even they worship Rāma, take the last name and they go to (indistinct) to understand what it is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): If it goes to the top people let it go, let it go. But who has to make the attempts? Not regular society. The government only can do it. It's a private society.
Dr. Sharma: No, no. Private society can do it. Private society can write a book, they can take it to the government, they can get it in its function in the embassy in Moscow, where it is to be given to some of the people there in which the cultural society exists, so-called religious or cultural or cultural society. We can approach them as well and introduce some books there.
Guest (2): And that means Indian government has to accept first.
Dr. Sharma: No, it has nothing to do with the Indian government accepting. When once we request somebody in the cultural society, and the Indian embassy governs as a function, and we deliver lecture and we invite some of the Russians, we will give it to them also.
Prabhupāda: We can send some of our scientist disciples to prove scientifically there is God. If you can arrange, I can send my scientist disciples.
Dr. Sharma: For that they require a visa.
Prabhupāda: Visa, of course, we can...
Dr. Sharma: They will ask for this visa. That once they come to know that scientifically they want to prove the existence of God, etcetera, etcetera, they may have some problems in getting a visa. This man has been asking...
Prabhupāda: That means they restrict also everyone to speak about God.
Prabhupāda: All right. That is all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...I thought they needed some time to adjust. And these children, they all have graduates. They're all B.A.'s, and their parents approached me to take care of them at some time. Their members from their families were there, about four brothers. So they say they can spare one from their family. So I'm going to make an attempt when I come back and go all the villages in Manipur—it is small place, so I can go with them—and I can take one, one from each family, and...
Prabhupāda: Train him...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...to become leader there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was your program, to ask each family to give one of their sons.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.
Prabhupāda: Pakistan is spoiled now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any chance of uniting with India again, Pakistan?
Prabhupāda: They will.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: Because otherwise they are finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They've already lost Bangladesh. That's half of Pakistan.
Prabhupāda: They have no economic position. Very poor. Very, very poor. No international relationship. Even their plane does not go international. Within the... They have no means to go. And who will, international plane, they will take, Pakistan?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they could not give.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of them were all right.
Prabhupāda: It has to be done in high flame.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The ones they served you were correct, but still they were heavy. But the ones I got were probably the first attempt or something. So they had sunk to the bottom.
Prabhupāda: They never become expert. He'll remain student for life. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
Prabhupāda: They are not old, but they have no intelligence. The hippie life spoiled them. Varṇa-saṅkara. Hippies means varṇa-saṅkara. No father, no mother, some are only children, doing irresponsible everything, making the whole situation hellish. How Bhāgavata predicted long hair? That is very astonishing. This confirms the Bhāgavata authority.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a very minute detail, prediction.
Prabhupāda: There are so many minute details, but this particularly...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why does it...?
Prabhupāda: ...strikes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why does it strike you particularly?
Prabhupāda: It is very insignificant thing, personal. And it is said, personal, if you keep long hair, it will look... But it has been made here, it is said that "People will think like that, that he has become more beautiful." The psychology. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. They rejected all other things. Simply they'll think that "If I keep long hair, I'll be very beautiful." This psychological study is there. And five thousand years before, prediction. How much authoritative the book is, just imagine. Is it not fact? Vyāsadeva's authority, try to... How perfectly authorized he is. They're stating psychological effect of people five thousand years ahead. Not only that, there are many descriptions what will be the name two thousand, three thousand years... Generally said, "This name will be like this. This name will be like this. Your son, grandson, great-grandson, what will be their names, this is..." So why shall we not believe just that statement of planetary system? If they are so correct... Planetary system is already there, but they are foretelling what in future, it will happen. That is my conviction.
Prabhupāda: It is very kind of you. So...
Indian Astronomer: As Patita-pāvana dāsa told me... I informed him, I am a student of religion and also working for religion. Single-hand, I made attempt to propagate Vedic concept and Vedic religion for the past forty years. I am not able to find out any help. But fortunately, when I informed about Your Holiness and saw in newspapers also, I have found you are the incarnation of Indian gods, (Prabhupāda chuckles) from my point of view, because the mission which is not fulfilled by other ācāryas, even Swami Vivekananda, so many. I know... I studied all variety of prophets. But it is only fulfilled by Your Holiness.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian Astronomer: Because we must place our Vedas before the people on the way of science without sacrificing tradition. It is also applicable to our minds. So all things are accumulated in Your Holiness, thoughts and...
Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?
Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes. Oh, yes, yes, thoroughly.
Prabhupāda: So...
Indian Astronomer: Great estimation, all your books. Even Christ is not able to do some things. But all our ācāryas incarnated in your body and your thinking. I know guru-ācārya... I made a contact with your ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha. I have made contact with him in Madras. Twice I met him.
Prabhupāda: He is now dead.
Prabhupāda: Pañcama-skandha, yes.
Indian Astronomer: There we find there about the Priyavrata. Priyavrata's sons, they divided the world...
Prabhupāda: No, persons we are not very much concerned. We are... Immediately we want the diagram how to fix it up so that people can see, "This is the situation." So you make this diagram.
Indian Astronomer: It is first attempt to give in picture the ideas of Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we... We are... We have got very good scheme so that people from the world will come to see the Vedic idea of planetary system. This is the ambition. So you kindly help us.
Indian Astronomer: As far as possible, as our Lord moves, I am prepared to serve.
Prabhupāda: So you sit down and take paper and make it and..., so that he can understand. You have already studied that.
Indian Astronomer: Several times.
Prabhupāda: So that you can do immediately. You do. Can you make a rough sketch immediately?
Indian Astronomer: First (indistinct). Because after he came there I told him that we must prepare a diagram which is acceptable to all, acceptable to all.
Prabhupāda: No, acceptable, the, I mean to say, Western astronomers, they...
Indian Astronomer: No, we... If you prefer Bhāgavatam and if you give only Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? The śāstra is there. You have to make drawing according to śāstra. That's all.
Indian Astronomer: You see, everything is separate author. Preparing diagram is separate author.
Prabhupāda: Why separate au...? If you understand clearly, you can make it.
Indian Astronomer: No, no, not like Your Holiness... We'll be able to... We all will go, deeply penetrate in the ideas of scriptures, and find out the facts.
Prabhupāda: At least you make some attempt. Let us see.
Indian Astronomer: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: You make some attempt. Go to the offices.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Please just try.
Indian Astronomer: Yes. I will explain again to you later.
Patita Uddhāraṇa: You must try.
Indian Astronomer: Yes. Yes.
Patita Uddhāraṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakha or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya... That is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order... He was not even human being, animal, (indistinct), not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped with love. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rasa, in some particular position. That is bhakta. So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakta. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world, immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is the... (Hindi) ...yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees.
Prabhupāda: If you practice muṣṭika, naturally you become very stout and strong. There are many wrestlers. They have got very strong body. But yoga does not mean that. Yoga means to find out the antaryāmī, Paramātmā, within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This information we get from the śāstra, that God is also situated within the core of the heart of every living... Sarva-bhūtānām. It is not that God is sitting in the core of the heart of the human being and not in the core of the heart of the dogs. He is there also. But the difference is that the dog cannot find out; man can find out. Therefore he is educated, taught about the yoga system so that constantly he can meditate upon antaryāmī, viṣṇu-mūrti. Perhaps you have seen the picture. We have got that picture. But that is the purpose of yoga, not to make the body strong or the mind very powerful. That is automatically done. Aiye. It does not require separate attempt. Just like if you get one thousand of rupees, ten rupees is already there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you get all perfection. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. Four kinds of men, catur-vidhā, sukṛtinaḥ. If there is piety on the background, not the rascals or sinful man... Therefore śāstra always recommends to be pious, because a pious man has got the future chance of understanding God.
Prabhupāda: Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. As soon as you take birth, brāhmaṇa is your guru. So where is brāhmaṇa? Tad-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Where is that guru? Therefore the society, chaotic condition.... As soon as you take birth, you have to accept brāhmaṇa guru. So there must be brāhmaṇas. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be brāhmaṇas. Otherwise where is human society? It is animal society. In the animal society they are clever, enjoy. "How! How! How! How!" Jackals and tigers and big, this animal, that animal, they are everything. Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is the first time attempt is being made—"There must be brāhmaṇas"—this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They do not know the aim of life, how it should be organized, what kind of members there should be. No knowledge. Therefore I have challenged that "Your brain is filled up with stool. You do not know how human society is happy." Here is janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. So where is brāhmaṇa? Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ.
Prabhupāda: Then they changed?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Then they became little... They opened up their mouth and then started talking. Then, once they start talking, then we can generate some platform where we can actually discuss. This Amrtabhal Sena is a professor in Bose Institute. Firstof all he asked my qualifications, said what, what do I have. Then I said I studied in the States, and I had this degree, and I was working this line. Actually I told him all the sophisticated experiments that we did when I was studying. And he was very impressed with those ideas or experiments that I did which they don't do here. Then he asked me... First of all he was interested "How you became... How you left those things and become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa?" Then I... At that point I got the opportunity to explain how science is an attempt to see the unknown laws of nature, in other words to find at least the ultimate cause or the Absolute Truth. Vaguely it's an attempt at least amongst those highly thoughtful scientists. They think like that. But we are seeing at this stage of our scientific age that science is not giving those answers. Rather, science is failing. We thought we would do like this, that, and so many experiments and so much knowledge we uncovered, but we do not know anything about life, so there are limitations of this scientific knowledge. So there must be something higher. It cannot be the finishing stage at this moment. So there must be something higher. It cannot be the finishing stage at this moment. So there must be something higher beyond what we know so far. That is why I was interested in knowing more about the principles of life. It cannot be just coming momentarily for some time and staying and getting a family and getting some false prestige. That cannot be the ultimate. There must be something higher. Then he began to understood what I meant and he accepted, "Yes, it's true." That he agreed, "Yes, we are not... The knowledge that we have is not able to give all the answers. In fact, science doesn't know anything about life. But we are leaving this most important knowledge of life and just studying something garbage in the name of scientific knowledge."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) You have fatally...(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...
Prabhupāda: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Again you have to come down.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to tell them that "We cannot completely negate the scientific advancement. We cannot simply say that what you are all doing is nonsense." At the same time, we can bring out that "Yes, you are doing, making an attempt to find a solution or comfortable situation. It's not possible," that "There must be something beyond. It's not enough."
Prabhupāda: And that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Satisfaction of the soul, Śrīla Prabhupāda just mentioned.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the Adhokṣaje.
Prabhupāda: Adhokṣaje. Yato bhaktiḥ. When you become a devotee, then you'll go.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is required.
Prabhupāda: That is the aim of life. So everything is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And then these unfortunate rascals, they are distorting. What can I do? How to stop it?
Devotee (3): But they will argue, "Why should we accept that there will be a next life?"
Prabhupāda: Rascal, why you are accepting old age? You are young man. You have to accept, become. Why you are accepting, rascal? Answer this.
Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone. Simply one has to know. And where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. So know yourself, let your sons know, and you become free. Everything is there. So that ideal we want to give to the world. So throughout the whole world we cannot find out five hundred students? So what kind of manager? Hm? This is ideal civilization, that people are suffering mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and stop this repetition of birth and death. That is ideal. Kṛṣṇa says plainly that "If you do not take advantage of My instruction, then mām aprāpya: you'll not get Me." "So what is the loss? I don't get You?" Now, nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. "Then you'll be again entangled in this birth and death." "What is the wrong there?" "Now, today, you are Prime Minister. Tomorrow you may be a dog. Do you like that?" But they have become so rascal that "Where is the wrong if I become a dog, that?" Here is your civilization. They say that "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" They don't mind even if they become a dog next life. Is it not? This is Western civilization. They say plainly, "What is wrong? I'll forget." Such degradation has taken place in the human society. We are trying a little bit to raise them. That is our humble attempt. Otherwise... Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, everyone, all bad, manda. They have created their own manufactured ideas. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ. Manda-mata and sumanda-mata. Bad, very bad. Why? Manda-bhāgyāḥ, unfortunate. They got this human form of life after so many births, and they do not take advantage.
Surendra Kumar: That I have been not following Prabhupāda when so many people have. We must do our duty to do. Because of our slavery, this righteousness and earnestness has gone out of our life. We are not earnest.
Prabhupāda: Anyway... (Hindi) So this is the first time an attempt to distribute. (Hindi) It is special prerogative for the Indians, to distribute this knowledge. That will glorify India's position.
Surendra Kumar: This is what he was... Vajpayee was hinting at this very thing, that we want to use this organization for spreading our spiritual heritage all over the world. And he said that "I want to utilize your organization for this purpose."
Prabhupāda: So if the opportunity...
Dr. Kapoor: (Hindi)
Surendra Kumar: For the first time you have a government which has thinking of this. Otherwise what do you mean by secularism? Secular does not mean...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)
Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace, it is our good fortune that we have such a administration...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now with your books, the whole world may understand.
Prabhupāda: Of course, we have made such attempt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People write that now they have got your books they are feeling actually alive for the first time. People write like that. They get so many letters at the BBT, thanking them for giving these books. In all languages people are writing you like that. They feel grateful.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I received directly such congratulations in the airport many times. Many times.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People would come up to you.
Prabhupāda: I think in Japan I have got. One European boy came. He came: "How you have got so much knowledge, sir?" His inquiry was that. In Dum Dum Airport some gentleman came, Indian. The thing is, knowledge was there. It was not presented. (pause) (aside:) He'll take one; you take. (break) Hm? Kṛṣṇa asked the gopīs that "You can take your cloth, one after another. You have done a great fault. Naked, you are taking your bath. So just offer to the deity namaskāra." (laughs) Chastised: "You are very naughty. Why you are doing like this? I tell you, this is for your good." So they did it. (pause) Gopījana-vallabha. (pause) Kṛṣṇa's naughty activities... In every neighboring house they would come, Mother Yaśodā, friends, and they'll repeat Kṛṣṇa's naughty activities, and Mother Yaśodā, stopping all household business, she would hear. She would hear again. This is kṛṣṇa-līlā. How ordinary person would understand? "What is this? Spiritual life? A child's naughty activities, and they are hearing, and this is spiritual?" But Kṛṣṇa has made easy salvation, that simply by hearing His naughty activities you'll be liberated. Who will understand this philosophy? Can you give me a little hot water with lemon?
Prabhupāda: Guru Mahārāja, he saw this. Now I remember those days, when he was instructing, "Do like this. Do like this." At that time, I could not understand. "Oh, why he's talking to me?" He wanted. "Jaya Svāmī! Jaya Svāmī.(indistinct)" More stress required. But many men and may not...(indistinct) So just attempt. Ask him. Bring some books when you leave. Then construct a... No, He is giving. Kṛṣṇa is giving money. Within few days you have collected fifty thousand. Where is the scarcity of money?
Gargamuni: Nowhere in the world. Everyone has money.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Money is coming there. Guru Mahārāja said that "You do the right work, money will come. Money will fall down on your feet." There is no question of flattering. Do. Work sincerely. Everything will come, whatever you want. I wish I could go there. I would have told(?). Even in this state I can go. There is no difficulty. But little difficulty... And carried in this chair, I can go anywhere. And what is this? No, where is the difficulty?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, yeah, as long as you're sitting...
Prabhupāda: Even I require four men to take care of me, that's all right.
Prabhupāda: Did you know that story, the Nārada was going to Vaikuṇṭha? Nārada came back and replied to a cobbler... Cobbler asked him what Nārāyaṇa is doing. "He has taken one elephant and He's drawing through the hole of a needle like this and again taking." The learned brāhmaṇa, he began to laugh. "These are all stories." And the cobbler began to cry, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, can..." Nārada inquired, "How do you believe that elephant is being drawn through the hole of needle?" "No, why not? I'm daily seeing by sitting under this banyan tree, and within a fruit there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains the big tree." Can the scientists make such small seed contain a big banyan tree? So it is acintya. That's a fact. (break) ...thing is inconceivable. And these rascals want to bring them as conceivable. He's conditioned, and he's trying to bring inconceivable thing to his conception. Useless, futile attempt. How the scientist will answer? We take a fruit. There are hundreds of seeds, and each seed contains a big tree. How you can explain? Is it not inconceivable?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is the use of arguing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's better to take the fruit and offer it to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's right. We take it as accepted, mahā-muni kṛte. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām (SB 1.1.2).
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they're going to have it in Māyāpur, they can have a little... Not very small. Proportionate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "The FATE..." They call it FATE, First American Theistic Exhibition. "The FATE Los Angeles exhibit is now complete with very small details remaining on the complex computer system. It will be operational on July 10th." Four days ago. "And the grand opening will be held on Janmāṣṭamī this year. I have no right to hope in this way, but in spite of my intelligence, I wish Your Divine Grace could see this first attempt for theistic exhibition in the Western world."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says if it's not possible for you to come, then he'd like to make a film and bring it to India to show it to you. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One point," he says... "One point I would like to clear up in connection with our distribution of mūrtis. I have had many requests and inquiries about placing the form of Your Divine Grace on the vyāsāsana along with or instead of on the altar for worship. Is this permissible? In some temples the altar is too small and will not accommodate the present size of the..."
Prabhupāda: No. Vyāsāsana is good.
Prabhupāda: Just see. She is natural Vaiṣṇavī. Natural Vaiṣṇavī. So give them proper education. This is real education. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). That is the Vedic civilization, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛt ca aham. So at least this knowledge from India must be spread all over the world. We are making a humble attempt. We have no such thing, these... "You have got money and I'll snatch it." The Communists take it. Just see. They have taken. "Why so big, big buildings? Take them away."
Governor: In Madras I find quite a good atmosphere for this religious character.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I know that.
Governor: That Kanjarama Śaṅkarācārya, he's doing a lot for spread of Gītā and Vedānta literature. Though he's eighty-four he's doing wonderful work. And another Śaṅkarācārya is also moving. (Hindi) (prasādam offered to guests)
Prabhupāda: This is our homemade.
Governor: And there I find many good institutions working for Vedānta, Veda. The pronunciations are also...
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will receive our...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's helping us in Karachi to open a temple now. And in Lebanon also...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is accepting. It is for all, even Communist countries. Everyone is accepting our literature, our attempt. That's a fact. And you do not heard about the report in the South Africa. South Africa, the Europeans hate the Indians like anything. Now they're receiving our literature. That means they will now appreciate Indian culture. They'll understand that India has got some substance.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very important point to bring up even with the government.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be... "Oh..." The Baitland(?) Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the sun chair.(?) He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed. Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). And Kṛṣṇa's whole life is yuddha, fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is yuddha. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid yuddha. And when yuddha began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.
Prabhupāda: No, before that, when I went.
Brahmānanda: Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Try to bring him back. He is very competent. So jointly organize South Africa, both Europeans, Americans, Africans. Tulasī dāsa is very competent also. United Nations under Caitanya Mahāprabhu's flag, do everywhere. It is possible. Always that is simply a false attempt. This is the real.
Brahmānanda: You said that when you first came to New York. You went to the United Nations. The very first day I came to the kīrtana there in New York. The next day you went for that peace vigil outside the United Nations, and you were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saying that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only method for making United Nations.
Prabhupāda: That is fact. Āśraya lañā pāile, kṛṣṇa nāhi tāre tyaje, āra sama māre aphala.(?) If we try under the protection of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, things will be successful. Others, they'll simply waste time and be disappointed and change his body and suffer. Today is Ekādaśī?
Haṁsadūta: Today is Ekādaśī.
Prabhupāda: Two songs especially, Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, and Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, should be continued as well as any song, especially, I mean to say, here in this room.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a big box here. So we have this in English and Hindi now.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Little attempt, less success. (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: Harikeśa Swami is here now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The trustees have met, and there is one question to ask you. There are many articles in BTG which are written by you or your lectures and your famous conversations, like Professor Kotovsky, Dr. Stahl. So there is a proposal to take all of these different writings that have been published in BTG and put them together in one hardbound book, so that they will be preserved.
Prabhupāda: Good idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For distribution.
Rāmeśvara: And in the future there are so many other lectures that may be preserved in this way too, if you desire. Other books can be printed in the future.
Prabhupāda: Very good idea.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. And then our sannyāsīs look so nice. There's Akṣayānanda Mahārāja and Bhakti-prema Swami. They were both there, very nicely dressed, with daṇḍas. It's really... The whole thing is complete. They get to stay in a nice guesthouse. Then there will be building of Bhaktivedanta Institute Hall. All of these things are a complete arrangement. I think these men are surprised to see that how such a thing has sprung up, and they have not been aware of it before. And when they see these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the scientists have written, I think that will floor these men. They will be completely amazed to see it. Normally, if anyone else dared to do such a thing as this, to prove by science that life comes from life, it would be a very immature attempt by some religious person, and it would not have very much weight. But here they are coming face to face with people who are actually scientists, and they will not be able to deny our arguments. I think that your Guru Mahārāja is very pleased with this program, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I have given the ideas. Now you give the shape.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-caru? (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be that Kṛṣṇa postponed the opening of Bombay to get you..., so that you could have enough time to get a little health. It could be.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) He has arranged alone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara? Yes. This is his single-handed attempt. Of course, the others have worked very hard also for writing the books and getting them printed. But this arrangement locally practically is his. He's worked very hard-Agra and Delhi.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: Fruit juice now.
Bhavānanda: All the scientists are taking prasādam now, Prabhupāda-kacuris and fruit, sabji, hot jalebis.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw that yajña that was going on. I mean that hall is first-class looking. Even though this is not the final hall that we'll be building, still, it is one of the nicest decorated halls I have seen, with chandeliers. They rented chandeliers, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean it looks very elegant. Everyone is impressed. They never expected. These scientists probably think that Vṛndāvana is some forest. I mean, suddenly they came into a scientific conference. And naturally, after the conference, they are attracted to go into the temple, and then they get darśana. And they're taking prasādam. It's wonderful.
Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pradyumna: Tataś ca brahmā moha (Sanskrit—to nipapātetāha)
Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated. He could not understand what He was doing. Brahmā is the chief person within this universe. He became so much bewildered, what to speak of so-called scientists and philosophers. We should not make such attempt. The best thing is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). We should give up all our tiny efforts to defy the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Better whatever arrangement He is proposing, do like this. This is Bhagavad-gītā. That will make us happy. Is this clear?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then it says, (Sanskrit). So mohayan vatsa-bāla-steyena, "By stealing the vatsa and bālas," mohayitum upakramamāṇaḥ... Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, "Just beginning to try to make him illusioned." (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: I have already explained that.
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Instead of bewildering Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-mohitasyāpi to mityarthaḥ)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. As we are trying to defeat the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, we are becoming implicated in Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It cannot be. And better... Mām eva ye prapadyante. Anyone who has reached to surrender to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, māyām etāṁ taranti, he is liberated. He is free from Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Just like government force you cannot overcome. First of all there are laws. Then there is police power. Then there is military power. One after another... What is the use of trying to overcome government power?
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-na to iti)
Prabhupāda: Yes. He became defeated by his own attempt.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-māyyāḥ to ca)
Prabhupāda: In the next verse it is clear that Kṛṣṇa can't be defeated by any kind of mystic power.
Pradyumna: And there's one on this same verse. Sanātana Gosvāmī says one thing.
Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava-toṣaṇī?
Pradyumna: Yes. Vaiṣṇava-toṣaṇī. (Sanskrit-sammohayan to ityatahg)(?) Desiring to...
Prabhupāda: Actually, Brahmā came to bewilder Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is... Actually we seen. Even little power, with scientific knowledge, they are trying to defy, "What is God?" And Brahmā, who is the chief person within the universe, he will become such bewildered, and there is astonishment. And this is the position of conditioned soul.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-evam to sam-śabdaḥ)(?)
Prabhupāda: Sammohita means?
Pradyumna: He says, sammohana. So what is this sam? Sam-śabda tad... (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: Samyak.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then, another day, we can go to some of the temples and see the Deities by parikrama. And then, when we've done that successfully and you're feeling fit from it, we will attempt the mahā-parikrama. Is that a good program?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...plastic mṛdaṅga?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Plastic mṛdaṅga. Should we get some? He saw one in London. Do you want us to have plastic mṛdaṅgas for the parikrama?
Prabhupāda: No, just a sample.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīdhara Swami in Hyderabad has one. (break) ...parikrama is successful, we can attempt the Māyāpur parikrama. That will also be very good, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And then, if that is successful, we will do a world parikrama, ISKCON parikrama. That means world parikrama. We will go to all your temples around the world. That may be the sweetest parikrama of all, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: I'll take little rest. (break) Makara-dhvaja will give strength. So for passing stool, whatever strength I have got, that will...
Bhavānanda: In the beginning, initially, when you start taking this medicine, I would think there would be some reaction within the body to something new like that before the body develops its tolerance. I don't think it's too serious at this point. (aside:) Śrīla Prabhupāda feels all hope is frustrated. The makara-dhvaja medicine is to give strength, but now he's passing stool, so all the strength he has is lost. At the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're taking a lot of liquid intake now. There has to be some stool. It's digested. You're taking almost a thousand milliliters a day, 960, 890, like that. So that's quite a large amount.
Bhakti-caru: Another thing is that this is a very strong medicine, and Vanamali Prabhu was hesitant to give it at this point because it was too strong for his...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say stop it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The cars only came here by four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it seems like it was Kṛṣṇa's desire that we didn't go. I was pretty shocked when I saw that the cars only arrived by four o'clock in the morning. There was no way that we would have been able to go on time.
Prabhupāda: So what is to be done now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is to be done now? Well, we're going to stay here for ten days or so, and you'll get better. When you get stronger, then we can attempt this trip. We have to hope that you'll get stronger now. Did you take all the medicine, Bhakti-caru, from the kavirāja?
Bhakti-caru: Yes. He made all the medicines till eleven o'clock.
Prabhupāda: So we shall wait. We shall wait.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. No, that was the best program, to wait some time. We were feeling a little bit happy to get this good kavirāja, so naturally we were thinking to stay where he could give you more close attention. But he also felt that to wait for some time was best. Did you pass a comfortable night?
Prabhupāda: As usual. Bhavānanda was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Now Jayādvaita, you read.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Read it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "It is clearly stated that the Gītā was especially meant for the saintly kings because they were to execute its purpose in ruling over the citizens. Certainly Bhagavad-gītā was never meant for the demoniac persons, who would dissipate its value for no one's benefit and would devise all types of interpretations according to personal whims. As soon as the original purpose was scattered by the motives of the unscrupulous commentators, there arose the need to reestablish the disciplic succession. Five thousand years ago it was detected by the Lord Himself that the disciplic succession was broken, and therefore He declared that the purpose of the Gītā appeared to be lost. In the same way, at the present moment also there are so many editions of the Gītā, but almost all of them are not according to the authorized disciplic succession. There are innumerable interpretations rendered by different mundane scholars, but almost all of them do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, although they make a good business on the words of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. This spirit is demonic because demons do not believe in God but simply enjoy the property of the Supreme. Since there is a great need of an edition of the Gītā in English as it is received by the paramparā disciplic succession system, an attempt is made herewith to fulfill this great want. Bhagavad-gītā, accepted as it is, is a great boon to humanity. But if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time."
Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) And it is natural.
Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Natural and it is really marvelous how it has happened.
Prabhupāda: They were also hankering. And as soon as they got it, they got life.
Prabhupāda: These people, Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna, they spoke in Hindi. So there were so many foreigners. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Hindu or Hindi, not for others, what do they say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are... They only spoke in Hindi. That means they're very narrow-minded.
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa conscious. And Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ bīja-prada..., sarva-bhūtānām. "Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They don't have even the human respect of a gentleman. The real gentlemen, they won't speak like that.
Prabhupāda: For their dealings, they are compact within India. They cannot go out. Who will care for their Hindi? And their nationalism and at the same time they are...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: They are so many false attempt.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They don't understand the spirit of Gītā.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, during the two days that they held their meeting, we distributed about thirty thousand Bhagavad-gītās around the world. Every day we distribute at least ten thousand Gītās per day in different languages.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā sañjaya.
| Page Title: | Attempt (Conversations 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=84, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 84 |