Guest: But I think any religious movement like yours, people think they can buy up the grace of God by giving some money. Right? So you won't find any difficulty in getting money, because there is air of sin in the world, and the sinful people think they can compromise by giving money. Let them give.
Prabhupāda: That is also good.
Guest: Let them give. That..., but that is the smallest point. Another point is, I suppose in each institution, in each center, there are men as well as woman...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guest: And they live together.
Prabhupāda: Not together. Woman's section is different.
Guest: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Women's section is different.
Guest: Different.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: It's very important...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: ...because all religious organizations have floundered on scandal, and you will have to be very careful about that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: This is what an old man has a right to tell you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, from the very beginning, because in Western country the boys and girls, they intermingle very freely.
Guest: Oh, yes, we know all that.
Prabhupāda: Yes...
Guest: We know for a fact.
Prabhupāda: ...and therefore I, as far as possible, I get them married.
Guest: Yes. But that doesn't prevent permissive culture. It acts as a sort of guarantee (Prabhupāda laughs), as a sort of insurance against scandal. But scandals do come out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and that is a...
Guest: So you are left with, that is another crude problem...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guest: ...that you have to take great care about. The traditional life of separate living is safer for organization. So all right to have men and are married and then in family they can mix. There is no difficulty. But when you start the separate organization, against which people are ready to manufacture stories, then you will have to be much more careful.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: So that is one comment I make as an old man.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are very valuable. Yes.
Guest: That is a wise thing from an old man. That's one thing. Then these are minor matters. On the philosophy of action which you have taken...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: ...of converting the people to Sri Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Consciousness.
Guest: ...to worship of Sri Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: ...I wonder whether you will place more importance, I ask my friend, Mr.,...uh...
Prabhupāda: Girirāja.
Guest: ...Girirāja, whether it is the Gītā that you may stress on or the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Gītā is the preliminary study of Bhāgavatam.
Guest: True, but in Bhāgavatam there is lots of danger, so far as Sri Kṛṣṇa goes. The Bhāgavatam, so far as it relates to the other incarnations of Mahā-Viṣṇu Himself, different, but so far as Sri Kṛṣṇa goes, it deals with a chapter of His life which can mislead people...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are very cautious.
Guest: Huh?
Prabhupāda: That we are very cautious.
Guest: You will have to be very cautious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was discussing this point...
Guest: Generally, generally people begin to think, "I am Sri Kṛṣṇa..."
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is nonsense.
Guest: "...God." That is what happens.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: That will be danger. But so far as the Gītā Ācārya's teachings, He is a different person. There's no reference to early life in Vyāsa's Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is simply about an ācārya. Occasionally He says "I am Īśvara," but He's an ācārya primarily. I need not..., I am not trying to sermonize to you. I'm trying to explain what I feel.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Very difficult doctrine of detachment. The Gītā Ācārya says sannyāsa is difficult, and you are likely to become a hypocrite if you, if you...
Prabhupāda: Mithyācāraḥ sa ucyate.
Guest: ...if you prematurely take sannyāsa. Therefore try and compromise the principles of sannyāsa, that is to say of renunciation with worldly action, and, I mean, performance of duty, by performing the duties without caring for the results. That is the renunciation He has preached, I have understood.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment.
Guest: Yes. To God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is required.
Guest: Huh?
Prabhupāda: That is required. Just like...
Guest: Yes. Attachment to... There is a Tamil, Kurul. You have heard of the name Kurul? Tamil (indistinct), makes this point very clear.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: If you wish to live without detachment, attach yourself to God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: That will be the...
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: After getting good attachment, one gives up the inferior attachment.
Guest: Right. That will better right. The attachment should be to God.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, es I will call Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Guest: Attachment should be to Govinda, not to an organization.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Govinda is absolute. Govinda and Govinda's organization the same. Govinda is absolute.
Guest: I don't want to discuss it, I told you. I'm not competent to discuss. I'm just telling you what I think.
Prabhupāda: No. I'm also answering this point. Just like Kṛṣṇa, His name, His form, His pastimes, His entourage, they are all the same. Otherwise, what is the benefit of chanting Kṛṣṇa's name? Suppose I am thirsty just now. If I simply chant the name of water, "water," I'll not be satisfied. Water is required, actual substance. But when you chant "Kṛṣṇa," if Kṛṣṇa name is different from Kṛṣṇa, then you... (end)