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At the time of death (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: I am not this body. That is a fact. But body is changing. There are many examples. One of the example is a very common example. Suppose a man is dead. Now everybody is crying, and if we ask "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is dead." I can say, "Your son is lying here. Why you are saying that he is dead?" "No, no. He is dead. He is gone. His body is lying." Therefore he is different from the body. Immediately you can understand. You say, "No, he is gone. His body is lying." Don't you say at that time? So you understand at the time of death that the man was different from the body. But during this lifetime, I was taking care of his body only. Why did I take care of he? Because I did not know him. You see? This is a misgiving.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So when the boar attacked him the Musselmans, when they do not like they say, "Haram. Haram." Condemn means haram. So when the boar attacked him he said haram. "Haram!" But it acted, ha rāma, and he got salvation. Do you follow what I say? A Mussulman said, 'ha ram. Ha ram He condemned. It is abominable. That is the meaning of Urdu, haram. But at the time of death, when the boar attacked him, he said, "Haram." So it acted ha rāma. Ha, he rāma. It acted, chanting the name of Rāma, Hare Rāma. He meant something else, but it acted as beneficial as chanting He rāma. So therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, either you chant seriously, or those who are criticizing us, jokingly, the effect will be same. So anyway let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you follow? Even they do not take it seriously, if they imitate, joke, still they'll be benefited .

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The first management is that each and every member in the temple is chanting sixteen rounds regularly and following the regulations, that's all. Otherwise we have no... That is our spiritual strength. That must be executed. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, such exalted personality, such advanced, still he is numerical counting even up to the point of his death. Therefore he was given the nāmācārya, because so rigid (indistinct). Even at the time of his death, Lord Caitanya requested, "Now you can minimize." "No sir, I cannot minimize." And what is the number? 300,000. These are the examples. (indistinct ) Sometimes... But the regulation is that if one day you cannot finish, you have to finish on the next day. But sixteen rounds is not very large number, the lowest. The lowest in India is twenty-five(?). Here sixteen rounds, twenty-five, not even twenty-five. So the president, local president, must see that the members are chanting. So this way the institution will be managed, then it will make progress. That is our spiritual strength—to observe the regulative principles and at least chant sixteen rounds.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Bhakti-devī dāsī: After we die, what happens to our spirit?

Prabhupāda: You get another body.

Bhakti-devī dāsī: Immediately?

Prabhupāda: Yes. After your, just like you change your apartment, you fix up your apartment first, then you leave this and go there.

Bhakti-devī dāsī: But we won't, we won't know it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhakti-devī dāsī: We wouldn't know it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you'll know it, provided you are qualified; otherwise nature will arrange for it. Those who know, they know what is there, but those who do not know, then nature will arrange. You do not know means you have not prepared your life, so accidentally, at the time of death, your mentality will create another body and nature will supply you.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The scientist says there is no life after death.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they do not know that. They do not say also, they do not know that. They do not say that there is not life after death because they do not know.

Devotee (1): There is one plan to freeze people at the time of death. This is actually going on now—to be awoken out of such frozen state when the science is advanced...

Prabhupāda: That means there is no life. If you want to keep it frozen, that means after this body there is no life.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible. They will have to forget first of all, what they have learned. That they cannot. Therefore it is impossible. Therefore knowledge begins from the school children, not from the man who is going to die. (laughing) That is not... Impractical. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān: (SB 7.6.1) "Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very childhood." Not that at the time of death. That is not possible. Therefore our students, they are all young generation, they capture. These rascals, they cannot. Old fools, they cannot. There was a practical examination. One father and one daughter, both appeared for BA examination in India. The daughter passed and the father failed. It was in the newspaper. In old age they cannot take any lessons. They forget.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Man's best friend.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Because he has no knowledge who is the best friend. According to the quality, friend is selected.

Karandhara: And one is known by the company he keeps.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The best friend will lead him to take birth in that family. He'll help him next birth because he'll always think of dog, so next birth, dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam (BG 8.6). At the time of death, if you are attached to something then you'll think of it, and next birth is that.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But even if they do not know during their lifetime, at least, towards the end of their life, at the time of death, then they'll remember that, "I have wasted my life."

Prabhupāda: That is warned by Śaṅkarācārya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that "I have simply wasted my life." He admitted, "I have not given anything." Bālakānām. He was after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyāsī. Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyāsī. Just like Gandhi, "Saintly statesman." He is recorded, "Saintly statesman." He's a statesman, politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that. Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was achieved not by Gandhi's non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose's violence method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Just see, another foolishness. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he was screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Anyone does not want to die. Anyone does not want to take birth even. Now we have forgotten. Otherwise, in the womb of the mother, everyone knows that we are kept in such a way, in a packed, compact water bag, without any facility to move, not only for one day, two day, but ten months. Medical science knows, everyone knows. And at that time there are worms in the womb of the mother. They're taking the advantage, delicate skin. They also bite. And he cannot make any protest. He moves sometimes. The child moves. These are the sufferings. But we do not take care. If I have to take birth again, then I have to go, again enter into the womb of the mother, and, to develop my body and in such precarious condition, the body will develop. So there is suffering. There is suffering of birth, and at the time of death there is suffering. And between birth and death, there is duration of life, there is disease, there is old age, and what to speak of other sufferings. That we may not mention. But at least these four sufferings are there. Therefore the best service is to save him from this suffering. That is the service.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Guru-gaurāṅga: How is it they can see continuity between baby's body and young boy's body and young man's body, they say, "Oh, he's still here," but they can see no continuity between this body and...

Prabhupāda: That, that, he has no eyes. How I have got my continuity of my childhood thoughts and now also? Just like for a old man. He hasn't got so much sexual power, but the sex continuity is there. He wants to enjoy. Therefore he takes some medicine. He takes some injection. Why? The continuity. That means the continuity is mind. The gross body has changed. The mind is there, subtle. Intelligence is there. That is continuity. And that continuity, that subtle body, mind and intelligence, carry me to another body, as it is doing now. My gross body has changed, but mind and intelligence continuing. Similarly when this body will be completely finished, my mind and intelligence will carry me to another gross body. Then in the womb of my mother I shall grow another gross body. The mind and intelligence being continued. And I get a particular type of body on the condition of mind and intelligence at the time of death. Death means finishing this body. But the mind and intelligence is the same. As the air carries the flavor. This is the logic.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (Indian man): What is the purpose of Lord for creating human life or animal life or so many things? Why...?

Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
(BG 9.25)

So according to your culture, mentality, your condition of life will be at the end of your life. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). The whole life, as we have thought, as we have absorbed in thought, the same mentality will be concentrated at the time of your death. So, a god's mentality, or dog's mentality or hog's mentality, or... There are so many kinds of. So you'll get next body according to that mentality.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): So this was my question about how, he was not acting, but...,

Prabhupāda: No. He did not know. But because he was chanting raghupati rāghava rājā rāma, that has given him this effect, yes. On account of chanting. But he really did not understand. Just like the same example, the Mohammedan. He said "hā rāma." He wanted to speak "hārāma," but it become "hā rāma." That is the... He did not know anything about Rāma, but the name Rāma is so powerful that although he said, "hārāma," it effected. Yes. But Gandhi may not know the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, but as he chanted "hā rāma," that has been effective.

Pearl: I wondered what "Rāma" meant when we say the mantra, Hare Rāma, you see.

Prabhupāda: Rāma means...

Guest (3): So it was not due to his pious activities, but only he was practicing.

Prabhupāda: No, that is pious activity, that is pious activity.

Guest (1): That is why at the time of death he spoke Rāma, raghupati rāghava rājā rāma.

Prabhupāda: He was a pious man.

Guest (1): He was pious man.

Prabhupāda: Undoubtedly.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): But he did not accept any post, you know that? At the same time...,

Prabhupāda: But he also accepted "Mahatma" although what...

Guest (1): But not political post.

Prabhupāda: That is another trick, it may be. Or he did not like. It may be. Because he was so great, what is the presidency? Presidency elected post for five years. But he was recognized all over the world as a great leader. That is greater than any president's post or prime minister's post. So that is not much. But the thing is that if he was actually aware of the importance of Rāma, that he did not. He took it, "Rāma" as some means for his political purpose. But still it effected. At the time of death he said, "Rāma." So...

Guest (1): So you think he has gone to heaven or some, what is his position?

Prabhupāda: No... But because he did not understand Rāma, therefore he cannot go to the kingdom of God. But he'll get very high position.

Guest (1): High position.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He may go to the heavenly planet

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, at the age of twenty-four years, he gave up his young wife, children, and went for tapasya. Tapasya is the life of the human being. Not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Restrained. Tapasya. But here there is no, at the present moment, there is no question of tapasya. Even one is ninety years old, he's still engaged in these material activities. Even a person like Gandhi, unless he was killed, he would not give up politics. The material activities are so palatable for the materialists, that even up to the point of death... In Bengal, there was a big zamindar. So his father, er, his sons asked him at the time of death, "Father, what we can do for you, last desires?" So he expressed that "That man is my enemy. If you can bring him here and beat him with shoes, I'll be very much satisfied." This is material world. Even at the time of death, he's thinking enmity with others. And he will, he wanted to be happy that "If you bring that man and beat him with shoes, I'll be very happy." The other day somebody said that one man was cut into two, and he was asked, "What do you want?" He said, "Give me a cigarette." (laughter) This is the position.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (2): And he was cut into two.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was going to die, still he was asking, "Give me a cigarette." He does not know anything else. Therefore one has to practice. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). At the time of death, if you can remember Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful.

Guest (2): This is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Simply if you can... Just like Ajāmila. He simply chanted, "Nārāyaṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. He was saved from the greatest danger. So this human form of life should be so trained up that at the time of death you can remember Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, now you can judge what I have done for you, and what you have done for me." Then give me that place. That's it." That... If you have worked whole life for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not ungrateful. He'll give you.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say if there is no mistake, there will be only one living entity in the whole universe.

Prabhupāda: Why? Because you have got different mind, therefore you create different situation. Just like we are walking here. Not that everyone is coming to join us. Because they have got different mentality. They want to sleep. We want to rise early in the morning. Why this difference?

Śrutaśrava: It is a great mistake they're making.

Prabhupāda: It is not mistake. It is your desire. And exactly according to the desire, you get a body. It is not mistake. No. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, whatever you think, exactly nature will give you a similar body. That's all. That is not in your hand. That is in the nature's hand. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see-afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all. Going home, nobody becomes afraid going back to home. He becomes pleased. (break) You avoid death, there is no death. Viṣaya.(?) If we simply practice this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... No more death. Finished death. This is a fact. (break) ...or do something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste time, single moment. Then your... No more death. Because this is deathless condition. And the changing of the body, that is momentary, that is all.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday in the paper I saw a picture. Nixon had his sixty-first birthday, and he had a big cake made, and he offered the first bite, the first lick to his dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. That is stated in the Bhagavad... ārto 'rthārthī. He is in great distress. Now he is taking shelter of God. Ārto 'rthārthī. Then he is good at least. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Ārtaḥ. Ārtaḥ means very much distressed. He is very much distressed than all the Americans.

Gurukṛpā: He had a cake for his sixty-first birthday. He gave the first bite to his dog, d-o-g.

Prabhupāda: Oh, not God?

Devotees: No, no, dog. (everyone laughing)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dog has become his God then.

Prabhupāda: Then why he should not become dog? Become yaṁ yaṁ vāpi... He has great love for dog, and it is said that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajati (BG 8.6), at the time of death, he will think of dog and he will become dog.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: How can there be the smaran?

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore, my Lord, I pray that adyaiva, immediately, because now I am fit."

Dr. Patel: Right now.

Prabhupāda: Right now. "Now I am fit. So let me remember You and die." So one must be fit. You see, even in daily, in dream, while sleeping, we forget so many things. Everything we forget.

Chandobhai: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?

Dr. Patel: My father spoke, "Oṁ," and he stopped breathing and...

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Oṁ, oṁ ity eka... That is...

Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.

Prabhupāda: That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice Oṁ or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is all right.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Therefore at the last moment you... But you can't get that last moment in this position because you have, whole life, you have...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have spoiled your life simply in material activities. How you can remember?

Dr. Patel: But even if you are doing material activities by your body, and by your mental activities you are bhaja kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: But you are under the body... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Body and mind is working... Unless you practice to be above body and mind... That is bhakti-yoga. Māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yoga..., sa guṇān samatītya. You cannot expect that you go on doing all these material activities and at the time of death you'll remember Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: That can't be done.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Chandobhai: Should be a real concentrated difference

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Man-mayā mad-aśritāḥ. Unless he takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, these things are not possible. Simply by talking it is not possible. There must be practice.

Chandobhai: Acaropanam.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)

Chandobhai: Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaram bhāvaṁ tyajanty ante... (break)

Prabhupāda: There is a risk. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi. If you are thinking of dog, then you become a dog.

Dr. Patel: Just as Bhārata did it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. yes, that is example. Even Bhārata Mahārāja, such a great personality, simply due to little affection to a cub of deer, he became a deer. So these people are attached to so many things. So how much risk is there at the time of death they do not understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...purāṇas, not new manufactured. (break) If I have to offer my obeisances and surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why an imitation Kṛṣṇa? Why? Just like if you go to purchase some medicine, the shopkeeper may say, "Now, here is a medicine equal to this medicine, and its price is less." So no sane man will purchase. "Why I shall purchase the imitation for being less price? Give me the original." (break) ...the life of Ramakrishna. It is said that at the time of his death he said to his disciples, especially to Vivekananda, that "I am the same Rāma, I am the same Kṛṣṇa," and he took it. And he preached that "This Gadadhara Chatterjee, Ramakrishna." That's all. Then if he is referring to the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, so why not take the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? What is the proof? Simply by his words one can accept? Just like he is taking the proof, Arjuna. Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...the psychologically whatever mental condition we prepare throughout this life, that means you are preparing next life, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam tyajanty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). The situation of the mind at the time of death will carry you to the similar body. Just like one who likes to eat some special foodstuff, so... Suppose the meat-eaters... So the mentality is "How to eat meat, how to eat meat." So they are given next life the canine teeth to give facility for eating meat. Canine teeth means dogs, cats, tigers, like that.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So it is confirmed by the greatest authority, and if we practice... This practice can be done in the association of devotees. And that is perfection of life. There are some conditions about self-control: no meat-eating, no fish, no eggs, no illicit sex life, and no intoxication, even smoking, drinking tea, and no gambling. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very easy. And everyone can perform it without undergoing the bodily exercises, which is sometimes difficult for a common man. So one can adopt this bhakti-yoga process and become perfect. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If one becomes accustomed to this habit and at the time of death, he thinks of Kṛṣṇa, then his life is perfect.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God. In that way we can save ourself from the anxiety. Otherwise it is not possible. Because a God-conscious man, he knows that "I'll die. Everyone will die; I'll also die." But his concern is: "At the time of death, I shall remember Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Then his life is successful. Death we cannot avoid. There must be.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says, of the two choices, he likes Ramakrishna's better.

Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But if he says that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa," why should he differ? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says to accommodate, to accommodate them.

Prabhupāda: No accommodation. No. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and Ramakrishna says that "Whatever path you select, it is all right." So it is completely against Bhagavad-gītā principles. And, and he said... His name was Gadadhara Chatterjee. So at the time of his death, he declared to Vivekananda that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma." So they believed in that, without any evidence, and they started this Ramakrishna mission. This is the history.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The point is that body and soul are two things.

Deshimaru: I think it is same thing.

Prabhupāda: You think, but how you can prove?

Deshimaru: How you can prove that the body...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot prove. When the soul is gone...

Yogeśvara: He's asking how can we prove our point?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can prove that the body is dead because the soul is gone. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, "Oh, I can also say that when the body is dead, the soul is dead."

Karandhara: No, but at the time of death the body is still there. Just like your body is there, at the time of death your body will still be there, but it won't be the same, something is missing. Something's gone away. What's the difference between a dead body and a living body?

Prabhupāda: How you can explain? Why the body's hand is there, leg is there, head is there, why it stopped working? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that when there is no longer any movement in the cells, scientific explanation.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you... If you know that, then replace that cell.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Oh, Madame Devi doesn't have much time. Perhaps she had some...

Madame Devi: (French)

Pṛthu Putra: She'd like to know about the problem of death, what's happening at the time of death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So as you prepare yourself... Because... Just like in dream we think what we have actually performed, similarly, the mental condition at the time of death will be prepared as we are doing in our usual life. Do you understand English? (French)

American Man: I'm American.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: Of course there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That consciousness will not help you...

Guest: It won't.

Prabhupāda: ...that will rather check you.

Guest: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death if I die with designation, then I will have to accept again the body. The mind if it contains contamination, he gets different types of bodies on account of mind being contaminated.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When we exchange rasa, transcendental mellow, (Sanskrit), then we get transcendental bliss. As the materialist has centered around the sex, this way or that way, similarly the transcendentalists, they are..., their center is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. So if you want to enjoy life making Kṛṣṇa as the center, that is eternal happiness. And this life means it is not eternal. Now you enjoy sex as human being, next as dog, next as monkey, next as flies, next as this, next as that. The center is sex, but you have to change according to your mental condition at the time of death in different body. That is not eternal. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You accept one type of body, enjoy sex according to that body, then you can accept another body. Sex life is there. As human being, sex life; and as a dog, there is sex life; as a fly, sex life. Fly also enjoys sex life.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If there's a certain criteria of proof or a certain evidence that we can know for certain that there actually is such transmigration of the soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again. Therefore we find varieties of forms, but in each and every form there is the soul.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: But what is the necessity of preaching void? Void is void, that's all.

Rūpānuga: There's nothing to say about that. But because they're saying that, the people think that at the time of death there's nothing, so they want sense gratification. So the scientists are selling them their gadgets. They're selling them cars and things to keep them in sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: We can see when a man is in coma, he cries, he suffers. Before death when a man is in coma sometimes tears come. Now why he says there is nothing? Imperfect knowledge, that's all. Misguiding people.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: Of course, there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness also.

Prabhupāda: That consciousness will not help him. That will rather check him.

Ambassador: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, if I die with designation, then I will have to accept again the body. So the mind is the criterion, contamination. We get different types of body on account of mind being contaminated.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Dancing is not working? And writing book is not working? Selling book is not working? What is working then? Hm? Like monkey jumping? Yes? That is working?

Amogha: But we are helping people practically like in the hospital or the alcoholics...

Prabhupāda: No, what... How you are helping? Do you think if one goes to hospital he will not die? And how you are helping? You are thinking you are helping.

Amogha: But he lives longer.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. How long you will live? When the time of death comes, you will not live longer even by a moment. When a man is going to die, his life is finished. Can your injection, medicine, give one minute's life more? Is there any medicine?

Amogha: Well, there seems to be.

Prabhupāda: No...

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Harikeśa: So, in other words, it would make no... It would be not a very good program to get some understanding from Vedic astronomy, like, say, some expert Vedic astronomers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: It would not be a good program...?

Prabhupāda: No, what benefit you will derive there? Your problem is that if at the time of death you can remember Kṛṣṇa, then it is success. We are not going to any other planet. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25), let them go. We are not interested in these things.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Devotee (1): We were discussing in Bhagavad-gītā class last night that during our life we are changing our bodies so many different times, and at the time of death we are also changing our body to another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you get another body.

Devotee (1): What is the difference of changing our body during our lifetime and at death?

Prabhupāda: This is... I have said many times. Just like you are using this shirt, and it is not usable, you throw it and again accept another. (break) ...understand this is a difficult problem. (laughs) (break)

Ambarīṣa: ...second we are dying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dying means changing body, that's all.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Devotee (4): ...consciousness part of this life, up to the time of death, in our next life we will be put in a situation immediately where we can take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness again or will we have to suffer karma before we came into Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: You will get Kṛṣṇa conscious again. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāya... Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate (BG 6.41). A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will be given all comforts of material life so that he may regain without any botheration.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Devotee (2): We are giving these books to so many common men. Then the books will attract them to perhaps chanting and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if they read. Even if they touch. That is the difference between this book and ordinary book. Even they touch and they read one line and says, "Oh, it is very nice," he makes a step forward. If he simply says this word, "Oh, it is very nice," that is sufficient to bring him. Therefore I am trying to push. He has paid some money. He will then say, "What these nonsense have written. Let me see." (laughter) And if he sees and says, "Oh, it is very nice," then the beginning is immediately. Therefore we are trying to push. At least let him say, "It is very nice." The Kartikeya's mother, the practical experience... The Kartikeya, when he used to go to see his mother, the mother was going to dance, ball dance, and she would not speak: "All right, sit down. I am coming." She used to go out. The same mother gradually, in the association of her son, became Kṛṣṇa conscious. So at the time of death she asked Kartikeya, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and she died immediately. This is the effect. So anta-kāle, she remembered Kṛṣṇa, so her life was successful. She inquired like this, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And immediately died. So she got the benefit of her son's Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can ask Kartikeya also. She said that.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, he told me that story.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So all the mothers of my disciples, they will get salvation because she has got nice son like...

Jayatīrtha: All the mothers will get salvation.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- August 5, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: ...thinks of woman at the time of death, he becomes woman. And if a woman thinks of man at the time of death, she becomes man.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: (BG 7.23) "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary." So does this mean that these less intelligent people who are simply interested in temporary benefit... Even they don't worship demigods per se, it could be anyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods... Yes. Just like one who is trying to get some good service. So they are worshiping this boss, that boss. That is also demigod, because without flattering some boss he cannot get some good job; without flattering the voters he cannot get the ministership. That is demigod worship. They have to flatter somebody. Why this Ram Gulab has gone to...? He has to flatter there. This is going on. The big bosses in the United Nation, they are demigods, supposed to be. He thinks, "If I flatter them, then I will be able to keep my position." But he does not think that this position will be lost after some years. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. He has forgotten his eternal life, Kṛṣṇa, and he is flattering these demigods. That's all. What he will gain? He will die. That's all. At the time of death what these United Nation leaders will do?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: This man's imitating the bird means that he will become a bird.

Prabhupāda: Not necess... This is sporting. It will be decided what he is thinking at the time of death. That will become prominent.

Brahmānanda: Is it by chance what you think of at the time of death or is...

Prabhupāda: No.

Brahmānanda: ...it dependent?

Prabhupāda: It is dependent. Just like all of a sudden some idea come to us. That means we had contact with such idea. It is compared with... Just like there is a big pond. All of a sudden, you see, from within a bubble comes "phut!" There is no reason, but it comes. That means the thing is there within the pond, the situation. All of a sudden, without any time, it comes.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. So where is that qualification? You are not lover of God, you are lover of dog, so how you can see God? You can see dog. That's all. Go on seeing dog perpetually. And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sir, even Śaṅkarācārya has taught the kuru-bhakti. But these rascals who are following Śaṅkarācārya, they are not following correctly. He was doing bhakti, bhaja govindam he has...

Prabhupāda: Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govinda... He has asked, mūḍha-mate. One who is rascal, he does not worship Govinda. In this he says, "You rascal, nahi nahi rakṣati duḥkṛṅ karaṇe, prāpte sannite koro marame. You have learned so much grammar, grammatical jugglery to interpret śāstra in this way, that way. These things will not help you at the time of your death. You rascal, bhaja govindaṁ." Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate. "You rascal!" He says mūḍha! (everyone laughing)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gargamuni's doing some transaction.

Prabhupāda: Gargamuni...

Jayatīrtha: I think he went to see about the electricity. He said that he was going to go early this morning to see about the electricity, why it is always going off.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Garga, garga means "big jug," and "money," full of money. Big jug full of coins. Formerly they used to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keep.

Prabhupāda: Not.... Cheat the government. There was no income tax, but still they used to keep in big, big jugs all gold coins and put into the..., underneath the ground. Nobody could understand where is the money. Very easy thing.

Pañcadravida: Hoarders.

Prabhupāda: And he did not disclose at the time of death; then it remained. And then, after some years, somebody digging, he got.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Why does He come here? He comes here... (Hindi) Am I right?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: It is not only for killing the...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise how He can give contact? Contact.

Dr. Patel: He could have done it from there only.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Actually to give him favor.

Dr. Patel: To favor the bhaktas, sir.

Prabhupāda: Not only bhaktas, even abhaktas—by killing them. Yes.

Dr. Patel: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also favor. (Hindi) ...immediately. Mukti immediately. All the soldiers and kings who saw Kṛṣṇa in the battlefield, they were all muktas immediately. Yes. Because at the time of death they were seeing Kṛṣṇa, so they become all delivered.

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: A human life is meant for preparing for the next life. That is sensible. But I am so much busy in manufacturing things for modernized life, R.C., T.C., P.C., and so on, so on. In future, at the time of death, I begin to bark and I think, "Oh..." And nature will say, "All right, come on." "No, no, I'm not going to..." No, why not? You have become modernized, barking like dog. So you bark. Who will check that? Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). māyā will take consideration, "What you have made yourself, a dog or god?" That she will take account. If you have made yourself a dog, "Just come on, become a dog." If you have made yourself as god, then "Come on, you'll be demigod." That is for everything. Otherwise why there are varieties? There is dog life and there is demigod life, Indra life. It is not one-sided. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is not one-sided. You have to change your body. And there are varieties of life, so it is up to you what kind of body you have got. You can change your body up to the point of becoming associate of Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: Like Volte. He was eating his own stool and urine before he died, and he was still insisting there is no God.

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, they'll be taught a lesson at the time of death. God is not dead; you are dead. You simply wait to see how you are dead. We don't want to discuss all this nonsense philosophy, just to warn them that "You don't be misled by this rascalism." That is my point. Then who kills you? Who has killed your father? Just see. Who has killed your father and who will kill you? Just wait a few years more.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So many holes, and he's criticizing me, "Oh, you have got a hole. (Bengali) These rascal, they do not know whether he's this body or something other than body, and they're philosopher. The basic principle of knowledge is lacking, and they're philosopher. Cheater.

Devotee (3): They say at the time of death they will learn a lesson, but if, when they go into a new body, they forget, how will it help them?

Prabhupāda: Forgetful does not mean that they... Suppose this child, he's hurt, and when he'll be grown up he may forget, but that means... That does not mean that he was not hurt.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time of death, when the soul leaves the body, at that time the body is destroyed. So at the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, how is the body maintained?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhāvallabha: At the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, why is the body not destroyed at that time?

Prabhupāda: Why? Suppose you have left the car; does that mean it is destroyed? You are going again.

Rādhāvallabha: But at the time of death it is destroyed when you leave it.

Prabhupāda: Death is different. When the car is no more usable, that is death. But we are returning to the car because we know that it is usable. And if we know that it is useless, we don't go to that car. That is death.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: They used to give us a simple example at school. They said that the people that lived in Mexico City...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we accept that. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). If, at the time of death, he thinks that "If I would have possessed a beak," then he gets the life. That's all. (laughter) That's a fact.

Rādhāvallabha: They say that this is the way the different types of bodies come into being, that by the desire...

Prabhupāda: That we say also. There is no difficulty. Because at the time of death, whatever you are thinking, you'll get the next body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Rādhāvallabha: They say, though, that this is how the different bodies come into being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we say also.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They say Ajāmila had no qualification and he just chanted.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila had no qualification. Therefore they should have no qualification.

Rāmeśvara: They say...

Prabhupāda: They say. Now you accept them as authority, "They say." What is they? What they are?

Rāmeśvara: Ajāmila's qualification was he thought of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you cannot think.

Rāmeśvara: They want to think of the gopīs at the time of death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then practice.

Prabhupāda: What they will think of at the death, why you are conjecturing now? Their habits are rascal, they're making pregnant, illicit sex, what they will think? Anyway, if we give indulgence to these people, then this preaching work will be hampered.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water. So this gross body when finished, his mental, intellectual and false ego will carry him to become a fish, and he'll have full freedom how fish is jumping within the water, going against the waves. A small fish can go against the waves. There is a Hindi poetry that a small fish can go against the big waves, whereas a big elephant is washed away. This is practical.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's still, within all the different species, there are still different varieties. What accounts for all these varieties?

Prabhupāda: Varieties of the body, according to the mentality.

Bharadvāja: According to karma?

Prabhupāda: Yes, according to karma at the time of death, mind is saturated in that way, and he gets a body, that's all.

Mahendra: And then, after, say if a human being falls down into the animal species, after that, does he go through each and every one of these species successively? Even there are different types of dogs, he becomes each different type of dog?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes. That is Darwin's gradual evolution.

Mahendra: Except this is evolution of consciousness, growing bigger.

Prabhupāda: Darwin has captured that portion, how the body is changing one after another.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

So dehāntara-prāptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Because this prakṛti, nature, is made of three modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Just like we are trying to associate with sattva-guṇa—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. So others, they are not anxious for these thing. They will say, "What is the wrong there? You can do that." But because you are infecting that tamo-guṇa, you'll have to suffer. You'll have to become a tree; you have to become a dog. How you can stop it? Where is your science? Why the scientists dying? Why they cannot invent some means, a tablet, that "At the time of my death, push this tablet in my belly. I'll not die"? Why they are unable to do so? Who can answer this? Why the rascal scientists do not manufacture such things that there'll be no death for the scientists? Hm? What do you say? Anyone for scientists can plead? (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). These things are unknown. Very risky life. If I am prime minister in this life or president, and if I am going to become a dog next life, then what is the benefit of becoming prime minister or president? And nature's law is that you get your next life according to the mentality at the time of death. So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death. Then next life is cats and dogs. So I may be worshiped here in a statue, that "Here is our beloved prime minister," and next life, I'm barking as a dog. Then what is the benefit?

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So we are taking care of the body but not of the spirit soul. So the nature's law is that a spirit soul, changing in different position of the body, as we experience in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, after giving up this body, we'll have to accept another body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We do not know what kind of body we are going to accept according to our activities and mentality. At the time of death the mentality will ascertain what kind of body we are going to get next. So these things are completely not discussed, neither they have any knowledge. So at the present moment the human civilization is a very risky civilization, so in order to save them from this state of ignorance, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. It is not a sectarian religious movement, faith or sentiment. It is actually scientific movement. Here are many scientists present. They are also taking very seriously about this movement. So we invite all important men to contact us and try to understand the basic principle of this movement, how to elevate the human society to the proper standard of life and become peaceful in this life as well as in the next life.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: "I take away as death." Whatever they are accumulating, everything will be taken away at the time of death. They are simply collecting, accumulating, discovering, forgetting that everything will be taken away at the time of death. Discover something which can check death, there will be no more death. That is real discovery.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? In this biomedical science, this ethics, there's a problem arising. The person, the family of the person who is suffering, says that "Please don't apply these machines. Let the person die." But the medical doctors say "No, we'll keep him alive as long as we can go on." So this is a problem. So who's right? Is the family right, or...

Prabhupāda: Family right. Family is intelligent, that "You are rascal, why you are trying? Let him die peacefully."

Bali-mardana: They say "Let him die in dignity. Why keep him in the machine?" The family says "Let him die in dignity."

Rāmeśvara: They keep him in coma.

Prabhupāda: After all, you cannot protect. Why you give trouble at the time of death? You cannot protect; your foolish attempt will not help him. This is the same philosophy, that the animal is suffering, to kill him. Mercy of killing, what is called?

Rāmeśvara: Mercy killing.

Prabhupāda: So this is nonsense. Mercy killing. Killing mercy. (laughs) Just see. The action is killing, and that is his mercy. This is their mercy. All contradictory. Killing by mercy? Mercy is killing?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could it be said that in a society where stress is placed on developing this understanding of God, people would naturally become disinclined for these so-called modern activities of sense gratification?

Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is the aim of life. Simply by false hopes they are trying to adjust things with material effects. That will never do that. Durāśayā. Durāśayā means it is useless hope. It cannot be. Just like we practically see that the, here in New York City, American people are very rich and intelligent, but they cannot stop this fire which is unwanted. They cannot stop it. That is not possible. Because they are living very high, 300 feet high or more than that, you are not safe still. You are still in the same danger. Because you are living in big, big skyscraper building, it does not mean that you will not die. Death is there also, birth, death, old age, disease, the real problems of life. It does not mean that because we have advanced in so-called material civilization, you have avoided birth, death. Even big, big scientists who gave us so many big, big inventions, but still they died. They could not invent something which will protect them from death, that at the time of death, give me this pill so that I will not die and I'll go on giving you more scientific advance. That is not possible.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: How is that spiritual dimension realized?

Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature. They are educated in animalistic life. As the dog is thinking "I am dog," and barking, similarly, if a person thinks "I am Indian" or "I am American," so there's not much difference between the dog and the man. The man must think otherwise, that "I am not this body," then the civilization, human civilization, begins. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unfortunately, there is no education. This education was little there. Even in India that is now becoming finished on account of this Western influence. So that is now practically finished. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement begins from the understanding that "I am not this body."

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So this Kulasekhara is praying, "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, let my swan of mind be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam adyaiva: "Immediately"—viśatu—"let enter." Who? Adyaiva viśatu me, "My," mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ, "my mind, which is just like a swan." So why adyaiva, immediately? He says that prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye, "At the time of death," prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ, "when the physical condition of the body will be in disorder," kapha, pitta, vayu will not be in order.... Prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ kaṇṭhāvarodha, "At that time I shall not be able to speak. I'll 'ahn, ahn,' but that's all. So I may not be able to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Better I am now in good health, so let my mind be entangled in the stem of Your lotus feet." Very nice poetry.

kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-panjarāntam
adyaiva viśatu me mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ
prāna-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ
kaṇṭhāvarodhana-vidhau smaraṇaṁ kutas te
(MM 33)

"At that time I may be not able to utter 'Kṛṣṇa' or think of You, and now I am healthy, let me finish this business." That means "Let me die immediately. Now I'm healthy, I'm quite fit." This is the ideal. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). At the time of death, if one remembers Kṛṣṇa, then his life is successful. Immediately he goes to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Ajamila. He chanted "Narayana," and immediately his path to Vaikuntha become clear.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So this practice means, whatever we practice all through life, there is chance of coming that remembrance at the time of death, and then it is successful, life is success. If at the time of death one can remember Kṛṣṇa, then his whole life is successful. Our one student, Kārttikeya, his mother was very fortunate. So his mother had nothing to do with this Society, but the boy was attached, and she heard several times "Kṛṣṇa," that this boy is attached to Kṛṣṇa. At the time of her death, she asked her son, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and died. Just see how fortunate she is. She simply uttered this word, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" then she died. Very fortunate. So on account of her son she got salvation. Otherwise, Kārttikeya told me that he went to see his mother, and the mother was going to ball dance, and the mother did not receive him well. "All right, you sit down. I'll come again." She was such lady. But by Kṛṣṇa's grace, at the time of death, she inquired her son, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" Very fortunate.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

George Harrison: When my mother died I had to send my sister and father out of the room, because they were getting emotional, and I just chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: She chanted.

George Harrison: I did.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very nice, so she could hear?

George Harrison: I don't know, I don't know, she was in like a coma or something. It was the only thing I could think of.

Prabhupāda: When it happened?

George Harrison: In 1970. It was the only thing I could think of that may be of value, you know.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if she has heard Hare Kṛṣṇa, she'll get the benefit. Either she chants or somebody chanting, if she hears, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, both the same thing. Little chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. So let us practice in such a way that at the time of death we may remember. That is success. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the so-called death is also a change of body. This has to be understood first.

Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I've got that far. Now if we could go on from there. And then we said, you said that it therefore made a difference in the life after death, how you lived, that there were natural laws that determined that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The process is that the spirit soul is invisible in our material eyes, very small. So after the destruction of this gross body, there is another body, subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. So at the time of death, when finishing this body, mind works. So, according to that process, the mind carries the small spirit soul to another body. Just like the air carries the flavor. Nobody can see wherefrom this rose flavor is coming, but it is being carried by the air, very subtle. You cannot see, but it is being done. Similarly, the soul is very subtle. It is being carried by the mind. According to the mind, he enters into the womb of another mother through the semina of the father, and then he develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be human being, it may be cat, dog or anything.

Mike Robinson: So we will come back in another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, that's when the body is developed, he comes out and his work begins.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins. So they do not know how these subtle laws of material nature is working to give us opportunity to become master according to our idea, false idea. And we are actually suffering, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as trees, sometimes as dog. So the mastership cannot be attained.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: During this transformation, are we still ignorant? During this transformation from body to body.

Prabhupāda: No, he's not ignorant. This body, next body is achieved according to the consciousness. At the time of, if you are thinking of something to which you are very much attached, then you get that similar body. If you are thinking of your pet dog, then you get the dog's body. And if you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, God, then you'll get the body like Kṛṣṇa. That will be decided at the time of your death. Because at the time of death you'll be absorbed with thinking which you have done throughout the whole life. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Just like the whole day you are working with some business, at night also dreaming that, subtle body. So you have to train up yourself within this life how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then there is chance of thinking of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death and go back to home. It is not difficult. Very easy.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you have got money, then you must spend—a gorgeous temple for Kṛṣṇa. That is proper utilization. Not the money is kept for my separate use and Kṛṣṇa may be offered a little leaf and water. According to one's position, he must worship Kṛṣṇa. So Bombay is so rich, therefore you are collecting. Spend for this temple, spend for this temple. Otherwise it will be spent for other purposes. Money will be spent, it will not stay. Samdimite varuṅkala vinaśiniyate sati (?), money will not stay. At least at the time of my death money will remain where it is, I (indistinct). So money, so long is in my hands, let it spend for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. It will be spent. How we are going to separate it? There is no excuse. So long it is in my possession, let it be spent for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Whatever I know.... We are not of that pleasure, we say, "Don't touch money." No, not only touch, we can consume any amount of money. Bring it and we spend for Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposal.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is back to home, back to Godhead. Home is here in India, and again back to Godhead? And somebody say, "Here is America. It is my home." And when you say that he'll be kicked out after some years, then home finished. They are satisfied, that home finished, that's all. In such ignorance they are living. And for this home they are busy. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī, attached to this home from which he'll be kicked out. Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll take it out, everything." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). "I come before you as death and take everything, whatever you have got." That's a fact. Everyone is accumulating, but at the time of death he'll be forced to give it up. He'll be forced to give up the body which he is maintaining so nicely. That he is experiencing. Still, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Because he does not know what is self-interest he remains ignorant and dies. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this Christo came. The Greek word. And the Greek got from India, Kṛṣṇa. This is the history. Christian means Krishnian, godly. And Christo, so far I know, the Greek meaning is "decorated," "love." That indicates to Kṛṣṇa. If there is some scholar he can find out that Christian means Krishnian originally. (reads:) "How the soul transmigrates? The process is very subtle. The spirit soul is invisible to our material eye. It is atomic in size. After the destruction of the gross body, which is made up of the senses, blood, bone, fat, and so forth, the subtle body of mind, intelligence, and ego goes on working. So at the time of death this subtle body carries the small spirit soul to another gross body. The process is just like air carrying a fragrance. Nobody can see where this rose fragrance is coming from, but we know that it is being carried by the air. You cannot see how, but it is being done. Similarly, the process of transmigration of the soul is very subtle. According to the conditions of the mind at the time of death the minute spirit soul enters in the womb of particular mother through the semina of the father. And when the soul develops a particular type of body given by the mother it may be a human being, it may be cat, a dog, or anything." So it is brainwash? Hm?

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he is the incarnation for this age.

Prabhupāda: And where is the evidence? Anyone can say, "I am incarnation." (laughter) Any rascal can say.

Mr. Malhotra: Anyone can say. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: What is the proof? Just like this Ramakrishna, he was an illiterate priest, and at the time of his death he said to Vivekananda, that I am Kṛṣṇa, I am Lord Rāma, and he accepted. He accepted. (Hindi conversation) Let him create one motorcar. Why he's asking, "Please sir, give me car." That's all. He is such a great man; bogus. People are foolish persons, they are deviated by these bogus rascals. That is going on. (Hindi conversation) Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam. (Hindi conversation)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: In Vedic culture, kings like Parīkṣit Mahārāja were trained when they were very young.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So it seems...

Prabhupāda: They were trained by the first-class brāhmaṇas, saintly persons. They abided by their order. There was committee, advisory committee. Even at the time of his death, he's asking advice from the saintly..., "What is my duty?" That is king. He's not doing anything whimsically. And the first-class man should be first-class. Then second-class man, executive, kṣatriyas, they will force: "You must do it!" And then the third class, they should produce and carry out the order of the second class, king. And fourth class, they cannot do anything. Let them serve everyone, that's all, śūdras. They have no intelligence. But everyone is important, cooperatively. This is society.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So māyā means simply you are desiring one after another, one after another, one after another, one after another. Hm? Who will find out this verse? Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. Where it is?

Jayapatākā: A song?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we're desiring one after, one after, one after, one after... The last desire... Because if you become addicted to certain type of desire, that is prominent at the time of death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6), sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. So māyā's machine is immediately prepared. That mind—manaḥ buddhiḥ ahaṅkāra. Subtle. You cannot see. You see the body is burned, finished. Rascal, that is not finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. There is subtle body. The subtle body carries. The example is just like flavor of rose garden carries, similarly, the desire is carried, and he requires a machine to ride on, particular. So there are eighty-four million machines, and he's, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by the supervision of māyā, carried to this mother's womb. The soul is injected through the semina of the father, and he enters the womb of the mother, and mother gives the ingredients, develops his body, and as soon as it is complete, comes out. Where is the difficulty to understand this transmigration of the soul?

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.

Page Title:At the time of death (Conversations)
Compiler:Alakananda
Created:01 of Mar, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=78, Let=0
No. of Quotes:78