From the word man... This is Latin? Latin word? Man? Sanskrit word is manuṣya, from Manu, that is "man." So Manu is accepted as the father of the mankind in Sanskrit literature. And in Bible it is said the man is made after God. So actually Brahmā is the son of Viṣṇu, and Manu is the son of Brahmā, and we are also son of Manu in different aspect. So gradually, if you go up, God comes to be our original father. And we say also, God is the original father. And the history, Vedic history, also says like that. So God... Because we have got form, therefore God has form, must be. Just like my father had form; so I have got this form. This is commonsense knowledge. How my father can be impersonal? Unless my father was a person, how I am a person? If God is the original father, He must be a person. Otherwise how we are persons? These are common sense, knowledge. There is no need of very great knowledge. A child can understand. How you can say God is impersonal? If God is the father, original, then how He can be impersonal? What do you say?
Aspect (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
They do not know what is My influence, what is My power."
So this Personality of Godhead... It is a fact. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The last word is Bhagavān. From Bhagavān, the expansion is Paramātmā, localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That is expansion. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). That is one of the plenary portions. Viṣṭabhya aham. He enters within this universe, and therefore the universe becomes manifest. Just like I am soul, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), I enter into this body. You enter into your body. Therefore the body expands. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead enters as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu within each and every universe. Then it becomes manifest.
So either you eat vegetables or either you eat flesh, you have to repay that. But yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. The Bhagavad-gītā says that if you eat the remnants after offering sacrifice to the Lord, then you, not only you are free from all reaction, but you do not eat anything sinful. That is the direction of Bhagavad-gītā.
So in every aspect of our life... This is also one of the insignificant example of our activities of our life. If we act, dovetailing our actions with the Supreme Lord, then we are free from reaction. Otherwise we are bound up by the reaction. That is the law. So in order to get myself free from all reaction of my activities... Because so long I am... Because I am living entity, I have to act. Either I act spiritually, either act materially, I have to act. My activities will not stop. It is foolishness to say that "I will stop my activities." No. That cannot be. Your activities will go on. If you don't act spiritually, then you have to act materially. And if you are fully engaged in spiritual activity, then there is no chance of material activity.
Similarly, the impersonal feature of Lord which is known as Brahman, that is not very much important. You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of the effulgence of Brahman." So this is one feature. But that is transcendental. When one thinks of Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth, that is also transcendental. When one thinks of the localized aspect of the Supreme Truth, that is also transcendental. And when one thinks of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is also transcendental. So here it is stated,
- ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
- tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
- mama vartmānuvartante
- manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ
- (BG 4.11)
Anywhere, any, I mean to say, person who is interested in the transcendental feature of the Absolute Truth, they must be either these impersonalists or the localized or must be devotee of the Lord. So these three features are there, presented of Kṛṣṇa conception, and how they are conceived and what are the different results, we shall try to explain in the next meeting. Now you can put your questions.
Guest (2): Does the higher nature include anything outside of you? That is, any communication of your fellow man, helping him in some way, that is, perhaps some way alleviating his material suffering. If he is suffering materially, is there anything that Kṛṣṇa... In my readings of the Bhagavad-gītā I haven't seen where Kṛṣṇa deals with the social aspect of man, helping the man who is starving, say, to overcome his suffering or providing his material needs. Rather, the emphasis is on away from the material.
Prabhupāda: This is material nature, of course, but one thing is that if you want to help a person, your aim should be to help a person for the ultimate goal. Just like I will give you an example that a physician treating a patient, he is also engaged in giving some assistance to the suffering man. Now, he treats the root of the disease. Now, the patient says, "Doctor, I have got very much headache today." Doctor knows: "Yes. All right. I shall see." He says, "I have got a great pain in here." Now, the doctor sees that these are the symptoms of his main disease.
For the jñānīs, those who are seeking out the Absolute Truth by speculative knowledge, they want to make these varieties of material world as void. The Buddha philosophy, śūnyavādi. Because they are disgusted with these material varieties, therefore they want something opposite. That opposite is voidism, śūnyavāda. The śūnyavāda or, little more further, that is brahmavāda, without any varieties, simply the light, brahma-jyotir. This is also another realization. Śūnyavāda, to make this material world null and void, they come to the impersonal Brahman effulgence. This is Brahman realization.
And then, for the yogis, the localized aspect, Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). By meditation. This is Paramātmā realization. And then, ultimately, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
This is also another realization. Śūnyavāda, to make this material world null and void, they come to the impersonal Brahman effulgence. This is Brahman realization.
And then, for the yogis, the localized aspect, Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). By meditation. This is Paramātmā realization. And then, ultimately, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Just like we general, people in general, we can see the sunshine, but everyone knows.... At least, scientists know that the sunshine is coming from the sun globe. If you have got power to go to the sun globe, you can see what actually the sun globe is. And if you go still further, penetrate into the sun globe, then you will see there is a sun god, sun god. His name is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: Vivasvān. In the beginning of this chapter, Fourth Chapter, Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1).
If you go directly... Just like if you reach the sun planet or the predominating deity of, namely, the sun god, Vivasvān, then naturally you know what is sunshine and what is sun globe. Similarly, if you directly go, if you directly can understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you understand what is impersonal Brahman and what is localized aspect, Paramātmā. It is... Brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā. Kṛṣṇa says.
What is this Brahman? Just like the sunshine is situated on the sun globe. Sunshine, although it is very big, it is covering the whole universe, but it is coming from the sun globe. So similarly, the Brahman effulgence may be very, very great, but it is coming as the bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. That we get information from Brahma-saṁhitā:
- yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-
- koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam
- tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.40)
So actually, either you try to realize impersonal Brahman, or by yogic process, the localized Paramātmā, or directly you want to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are all the same. All the same. But this differentiation is due to my angle of vision. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). If you want to realize only the Brahman effulgence, all right, you can do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "All of them as they surrender unto Me, I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā." Purport: "Everyone is searching after Kṛṣṇa in the different aspects of His manifestation. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir or shining effulgence. Kṛṣṇa is also partially realized as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything, even in the particles of atoms."
Prabhupāda: It (the microphone) is not fixed up right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization, and as such anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have Him. One devotee may want Kṛṣṇa as the supreme master, another as his personal friend, another as his son, and still another as his lover. Kṛṣṇa rewards equally all the devotees in their different intensities of love for Him. In the material world the same reciprocations of feelings are there and they are equally exchanged by the Lord with the different types of worshipers.
God realization, there are three aspects: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The Absolute Truth is realized in three aspects—Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Brahman, the impersonal conception of the absolute truth, that is called Brahman. And Paramātmā is localized aspect of the Absolute Truth. And Bhagavān is the ultimate realization, Personality of Godhead.
The same example as I have given several times in these classes, that the light, sunlight, is realized first of all as sunshine. Then if you can go further the sun planet, up to the sun planet, that is localized aspect. And if you enter into the sun planet then you'll find the sun-god is there. He is person.
The same example is in the case of absolute truth. The impersonal realization is not ultimate realization. Ultimate realization is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is supported in Brahma-saṁhitā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). By expansion of Lord's personal effulgence, the Brahman realization is there.
So the persons who are trying to understand the absolute truth by exercising their imperfect knowledge, they reach up to the impersonal conception. And persons who are still further advanced, just like yogis. They are trying to meditate upon the localized aspect of the absolute truth, the Paramātmā, the Supersoul, they're little further advanced. But persons who have realized the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are supposed to be the ultimate realizer. So God is realized by all of them but not on the same level.
The example, another example. Just like from a very distant place you see one hill. You will find just like it is a cloud. If you go further near you will see it is something green. And if you reach the mountain then you will see there are so many trees, so many animals, houses and living beings. The same example can be given here. One who is observing the absolute truth from a very distant place, their conception is impersonal. One who is further advanced, their conception is localized.
They are the same thing, light. But there is difference of degrees. The light and temperature which you feel in the sunshine is different from the light and temperature in the sun disk. And the light or temperature in the sun disk is different from the light and temperature of the sun-god. But they are all light. Similarly, Absolute Truth is one, light, but there are degrees. If you become attached to impersonal Brahman, you simply enjoy the eternity feature of the Absolute Truth. If you simply try to understand the Supersoul by meditation, then you realize the eternity and knowledge aspect of the Absolute Truth. But if you realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you realize eternity, knowledge, and bliss, three things. Because without being connected with Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Personality of Godhead there is no possibility of enjoying transcendental bliss. In the impersonal Brahman you can remain there eternally. In Paramātmā you can have knowledge but in Bhagavān you have eternity, knowledge and transcendental bliss.
This is also very nice example. The Bhāgavata says that we are all parts and parcels of the Supreme. If we do not serve the Supreme, then we fall down from our specified place. What is that? The same example can be given, that this finger, if it becomes diseased and cannot render service to the whole body, it simply gives pain. The other aspect of the part and parcel, try to understand. If the part and parcel cannot render service regularly, that means it is painful. So any person who is not rendering service to the Supreme Lord, he's simply giving pain to the Supreme Lord. He's simply giving trouble. Therefore he has to suffer. Just like any man who is not abiding by the laws of the state, he's simply giving pain to the government and he's liable to become criminal. He may think that "I'm very good man" but because he's violating the laws of the state, he's simply torturing the government. This is simple.
This is the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you have to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa in either of these aspects, and you have to develop your attachment for either of these aspects.
Then Kṛṣṇa says that jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ (BG 7.2). Now this knowledge of God is not a sentiment, it is science. It is science. This is scientific. Nobody can deny it. We are not preaching any particular type of sentiment, or any frog's speculation. It is fact. How our relationship with the Supreme Lord can develop, how we are related with Him, these things are fact on philosophical basis. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is assuring Arjuna that "What I'm talking to you is not a religious sentiment, but it is jñānam." Jñānam means it is practical knowledge. Jñānam. Jñānam means theoretical knowledge, and vijñānam means practical knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says, jñānam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam: "I am just speaking to you the exact knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead with practical demonstration."
So the jñānīs and the yogis, they cannot understand perfectly what is God. God is transcendental, sat-cit-ānanda, combination of eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. So if we realize the Absolute Truth partially, simply the eternity knowledge, that is called brahma-jñāna. And when one is further advanced and he realizes the Absolute Truth as the localized aspect, Paramātmā, or Lord Viṣṇu within anyone's heart, by the yogic practice, that is called paramātma-jñāna, or knowledge of the Absolute Truth. Actually, the objective is one, but different degrees of understanding. One example can be given in this connection. Just like the sun globe and the sun-god and the sunshine. The sunshine is also light, and there is temperature, and the sun globe is also light, and there is temperature, and within the sun globe, there is the personality known as sun-god, that is also light and temperature. But all this light and temperature, there are degrees. The sunshine degree of temperature and light is less than the sun globe, and the sun globe temperature and light is less than the sun-god. So when you reach the sun-god, then you understand the complete temperature and light.
So the purpose of yoga practice is to promote or to leave this material atmosphere and enter into the spiritual atmosphere. All the yogis, the jñāna-yogī, they remain in the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth. The dhyāna-yogī is practicing the localized aspect, but the bhakti-yogī, he is promoted directly in the planet which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, and there he associates with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and enjoys life blissfully, eternally.
So there are different planetary systems within this material world. Just like we are situated, it is called Bhūrloka. Above this, there is Bhuvarloka. Above that, there is Svarloka, there is Janaloka, there is Maharloka, Satyaloka. In this way, there are seven steps of planetary systems up, and similarly, seven planetary systems down. So by jñāna-yoga, by bhakti-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, means mystic yoga system, we can be promoted to the higher system, but if you practice the bhakti-yoga, then you go to the transcendental world directly and associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So what is that advaya-jñāna? Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. So to approach Kṛṣṇa, to understand, one has to go through the brahma-jñāna, brahmeti, then Paramātmā, paramātma-jñāna. Then kṛṣṇa-jñāna. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. So generally, those who are inquiring about the Absolute Truth, they come to the point of brahma-jñāna, brahma-jñāna. Then, if one makes further advance, then he can understand paramātma-jñāna. Paramātma-jñāna means the all-pervasive Personality of Godhead, localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That is paramātma-jñāna. First of all, brahma-jñāna, then paramātma-jñāna, then bhagavad-jñāna.
Bhagavān iti śabdyate. That bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Bhagavān means opulent.
Tattva-vit, the transcendentalists, call it Absolute Truth which is yaj jñānam advayam, where there is no duality. In the transcendental knowledge there is no duality. There is no..., nothing different from nothing. Everything is on the same level. That is called... One who knows that knowledge, he is called tattva-vit. Now, the tattva-vit says that the Supreme Absolute Truth is recognized in three aspects: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate-brahmeti, impersonal Brahman; and Paramātmā, the localized Supersoul; and Bhagavān. Bhagavān means the Personality of Godhead.
So they are three angles of vision. Just like from a distant place, if you see one mountain, you'll see just like something cloudy. If you advance more, the same mountain you'll see something green. And if you enter into that mountain, you'll find so many variegatedness, so many trees, so many animals. So objective is the same. But under different angles of vision, from distance, different people have got different conception of the Absolute Truth. Another example: just like the sun—the sunshine and sun disc and the sun planet.
So duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhāḥ, and rascal who does not know anything—what is God, what I am, what is this world—he's a rascal. He's animal. Mūḍhāḥ means ass. As ass does not know what is God, what I am, what is this world, what is our relationship, what is this universe, nothing, no knowledge—mūḍhāḥ—and narādhamāḥ, narādhamāḥ means human being is especially meant for understanding this philosophical aspect of life, but one does not care. He is simply acting where to eat, where to sleep and where to get woman, and that's all. That's his business. This is mūḍhāḥ. This is the business of hogs and dogs. So therefore, mūḍhāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ, narādhamāḥ, these description was there.
So our test is there. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he must be within these division: narādhamāḥ, mūḍhāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. And one who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then what he is? Aahh, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.
To love Kṛṣṇa. If you become expert how to love Kṛṣṇa... The idea of loving is not unknown to you. You love somebody. You love your wife. You love your children. You love your country. You love your society. There are so many loving aspect. But when you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That we have to...
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
That is the perfection of life, perfection of religious life, if one learns how to love Kṛṣṇa and without any motive, ahaituki. Just like here in this world there is no love because within this so-called love there is a motive. I love a beautiful girl because she is beautiful. A girl loves a man because he has got money. So this is the meaning of this material love. But that, not that kind of love. Here there is a motive. So ahaituki, without any motive, apratihatā, without being debtor, without any obstacle. Love of God cannot be checked by any material impediments. You cannot say that "I am very poor. Oh, how can I love God?" You cannot say, "I am very rich," or "I am black," "I am white," "I am this," "I am that." No. These material impediments has nothing to do for loving God. In any condition you can love God.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
There are three paths mentioned in the Vedas. One involves fruitive activities to gain promotion to better planets, another involves worshiping different demigods for promotion to the planets of the demigods, and another involves realizing the Absolute Truth in His impersonal feature and becoming one with Him. The impersonal aspect of the Absolute Truth is not the highest. Above the impersonal feature is the Paramātmā feature, and above this, there is the personal feature of the Absolute Truth, or Bhagavān. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives information about the Absolute Truth in His personal feature. It is higher than impersonalist literatures and higher than the jñāna-kāṇḍa division of the Vedas. It is even higher than the karma-kāṇḍa division, and even higher than the upāsanā-kāṇḍa division, because it recommends the worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. In the karma-kāṇḍa, there is competition to reach heavenly planets for better sense gratification, and there is similar competition in the jñāna-kāṇḍa and the upāsanā-kāṇḍa.
Here it is said, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Apavarga. A means negation, and pavarga... Pavarga-pa pha ba bha ma. Just like—those who are acquainted with Sanskrit grammar—there are five vargas: ka varga, ca varga, ta varga, similarly, pa varga. Pa pha ba bha ma. So pavarga means they have taken the material life in different aspect. First of all, material life is pariśrama, hard labor. This is called pa, pariśrama. And then, pha: the labor is so hard, sometimes foam comes. We have seen from the mouth of the horse, cows, and bulls, dogs. We sometimes, we have also, our tongue becomes dry after working very hard. There are foams. This is pha. Pa, pha. And ba means vyarthatā: in spite of so much labor, our sense gratification is not fulfilled. That is called vyarthatā. Pa pha ba, vyarthatā. And then bha. Bha means bhaya, always fearful. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Every conditioned soul is subjected to fearfulness, "What will happen next?" Big, big politician... Just like in U.S.A., President Nixon, he is also under fear, "How these people will drive me away?"
So anyway, brahma-darśanam. Brahma-darśanam means the preliminary understanding of the Absolute Truth. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). In the preliminary understanding, impersonal Brahman is realized; and if you make further progress, then you are, you realize the localized aspect, Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). In your heart you will see. And, further progress means you'll see Viṣṇu, or Lord Kṛṣṇa-brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. The one thing, thing is one, absolute, but a different capacity. Just like the... I have given several times, that the sun and the sunshine and the sun globe and the inhabitants of the sun globe, they are one, but at the same time different. To become in the sunshine does not mean that you are in the sun globe. That requires a very good qualification, how to... They cannot enter even into the moon planet and what to speak of entering the sun planet. It is fiery. So, as it is not possible for ordinary man, but there is sun planet and there are inhabitants also.
The second understanding is to know Him by meditation within your heart. Those who are meditators, they are expected to see the Supersoul within himself. Unless he can see the Supersoul within himself, his meditation or samādhi is imperfect or it is not finished. So the yogis, they find out, they try to find out. Not find out-try to find out the localized aspect of the Supreme Personality of Godhead within himself. And the devotees, they want to go directly to the planet where Kṛṣṇa is there and associate with Him. And the jñānīs, those who have simply come to the light... Just like the sunlight. So to experience sunlight, as it is not perfection of understanding of the sun, similarly, to experience Brahman is not all. One has to understand the Paramātmā feature and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, ultimately Kṛṣṇa.
The Vedic information says, yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If one can understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then everything becomes automatically known to him. Everything becomes automatically known to him.
Nitāi: (reading) "There are five gross elements, namely earth, water, fire, air and ether. There are also five subtle elements: smell, taste, color, touch and sound. The senses for acquiring knowledge and the organs for action number ten, namely the auditory sense, the sense of taste, the tactile sense, the sense of sight, the sense of smell, the active organ for speaking, the active organs for working, those for traveling, generating and evacuating. The internal, subtle senses are experienced as having four aspects, in the shape of the mind, intelligence, ego and contaminated consciousness. Distinctions between them can be made only by different functions, since they represent different characteristics."
Prabhupāda: So this is the analysis of the whole bodily construction. And beyond this bodily construction there is the soul. And when you study the characteristic of the soul, that is called spiritual knowledge. So long you are engaged with the characteristics of the bodily different elements, that is material study. So generally, people they are interested the medical science. Medical science is also interested with this body. The physical science... The physical science interest will be bhūmir āpaḥ analo vāyuḥ, mahā-bhūtāni. And psychology, they are interested with the internal senses, mind: thinking, feeling, and willing.
Woman: Your Grace, I would like to know why you call the body, the material world, "darkness" and "diseased." You refer to the..., to the body as diseased and darkness, is but one necessary(?), but a different form of energy as the light. And darkness and light are but one of many aspects of the supreme form of energy.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The question is why do you refer to the material world as darkness and as a disease?
Prabhupāda: Don't you see darkness? You require light.
Woman: Dark, yes, but darkness is but another form of light.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ignorance. Darkness means ignorance. Material life means we do not know things as they are. That is darkness.
Woman: You said it in a figurative sense.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The knowledge is not perfect; therefore everyone is in darkness.
Woman: But why do you call the body and the spirit...? The spirit and the body is the polemic of light, of being, the universes.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Woman: Polemic. The counterpoint. You have darkness on one side, light on the other. Ignorance, if you want, in this aspect, identify this ignorance as darkness.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think the question is why do you consider the body as a disease?
Prabhupāda: Because there is birth, death and old age. This is disease.
Prabhupāda: That is Paramātmā realization. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). He is within the universe and He is also within the atom. That is Paramātmā realization. Everywhere, all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūto. Goloka eva nivasaty (Bs. 5.37). Although He is situated in His Goloka Vṛndāvana-dhāma, He is everywhere. That everywhere aspect is Paramātmā. And that Goloka Vṛndāvana-sthiti is Bhagavān.
Devotee: When a person becomes Bhagavān realized, is Supersoul in his heart (indistinct) form?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38).
Devotee: Also I was told by one devotee, a person working for Lord Caitanya, Lord Caitanya will appear as Supersoul to him (indistinct) this happen?
Prabhupāda: Well, Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. If you see Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya the same, or Viṣṇu. It doesn't matter. Viṣṇu-tattva.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Pañca-tattva. The Absolute Truth is divided into five subject matter of relishing transcendental mellow. Advaya-jñāna, without any difference. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam: (SB 1.2.11) Asolute Truth is one, but still, there are varieties, transcendental varieties. Just like Brahman, impersonal Brahman; and Paramātmā, localized aspect of the Supreme Lord, Paramātmā; and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead—they are one. There is no difference. Brahman is not different from Bhagavān, and Bhagavān is not different from Brahman. Bhagavān is addressed by Arjuna as Para-brahman. Brahman realization, gradually... First realization: impersonal Brahman; then localized Brahman; then personal Brahman. The personal Brahman is called Para-brahman, the Supreme Brahman. Impersonal Brahman is the beginning of realization of the Absolute Truth. That is not final. Therefore those who are satisfied with impersonal Brahman, their knowledge is not perfect. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). The realization of the Absolute Truth is the platform of viśuddha-sattva. So unless one comes to the platform of personal realization of the Lord, one is supposed to be aviśuddha-buddhi: intelligence is not yet perfectly pure.
His statement is that Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. Svayam bhagavān kṛṣṇa. Bhagavān is person; Bhagavān is not imperson. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). First realization of the Absolute Truth by speculative knowledge is impersonal effulgence of the Lord, which is called brahma-jyotir. Then next realization is Paramātmā, the localized aspect of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But realization of Kṛṣṇa, that is the ultimate realization. Svayam bhagavān kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān means six opulences. Nobody is richer than Bhagavān, nobody is stronger than Bhagavān, nobody is more beautiful than Bhagavān, nobody is wiser than Bhagavān, and nobody is more renouncer than Bhagavān. That is Bhagavān. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). That is Bhagavān. Svayam bhagavān. He is opulent—ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa—not partially. He knows everything. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows past, present, and future. He says, therefore, that "All these, My dear Arjuna—yourself, Myself and all the soldiers and kings who have assembled here—it is not that we were not existing before. We are existing at the present moment also, and in future also we shall continue to exist." And how we shall exist? Individually.
Now, this localized aspect, Paramātmā, in individual soul, living, He's called Paramātmā. So that Paramātmā, Supersoul, is also a part representation. The, the body of Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Sac, cid, ānanda—three, three spiritual divisions. Not division actually. They are one. But for our understanding we analyze in that way, sac, cid, ānanda. Sat. Sat means eternity. So Brahman realization, impersonal Brahman realization, is realization of eternity; Paramātmā realization means eternity and knowledge; and Bhagavān realization means full realization: eternity, knowledge and bliss. Simple eternal realization is without factual knowledge and without bliss—impersonal. The impersonalists, they cannot enjoy the transcendental bliss. They simply stay as eternal. That's all. Śānta-rasa. It is called śānta-rasa, peaceful śānta-rasa. There is no exchange. And further development is dāsya-rasa. And further development is sākhya-rasa. And further development is vātsalya-rasa. And further, ultimate development is mādhurya-rasa. So in the spiritual atmosphere there are different degrees of realization. So this Brahman realization is the first step, and the Paramātmā realization is the second step, and Bhagavān realization, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is the ultimate stage.
United States, externally, ephemerally, it appears imperson, but if you go deep into the matter, you see that there is president, a person. So ultimately, a person, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, ultimately. That is the evidence from all Vedic scriptures. Tāhā nāhi māni, paṇḍita kare upahāsa. And these impersonalists, they do not accept this personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, and they laugh at the devotees, "Oh, what they are doing? They are less..." They are thinking that the devotees are less intelligent. And the devotees, they are also thinking that less intelligent. But you have to decide who is less intelligent. If you, from the Vedic literature, if you do not accept the decision... And the essence of Vedic literature is Bhagavad, Bhagavad-gītā, and it is clearly stated there. When understood..., Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he clearly accepted Him that paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12), "You are the Supreme Lord, and nobody knows Your personality." So personality is accepted. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says that the verdict of all Vedic literatures is to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Festival Lectures
A devotee is more than brāhmaṇa. The brahminical culture is included already. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Absolute Truth, Brahman." He is brāhmaṇa. But that is not very fixed up. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahman is impersonal effulgence, and then further progress, realization of the localized aspect, Paramātmā, Antaryāmī, and finally, understanding the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, Supreme Person, that is the final understanding.
So people cannot understand that how the Supreme, the origin of everything, can be a person. That is their difficulty. Because they are thinking, "A person, God? How it is possible. God is great, and He is the creator of everything. How a person can do that?" Yes. That is the Vedic version.
Initiation Lectures
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demon means when he is forgotten, when has lost his sense, that is demon. When has lost his sense, that is demon. Demon means māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Māyā, by the influence of māyā, the true aspect of knowledge is taken away. Anyone who is trying to establish it that "There is no God," he is demon. That's all. There are so many philosophers, so many atheists, so many scientists. Their only business is to deny God. They are demons. Yes.
Guest: Then is there individual complete choice?
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Yes. Apahṛta-jñānāḥ means just like a madman. For the time being, his natural knowledge is taken away. Crazy. What do we mean by crazy? For the time being, his knowledge is taken away. Similarly, when a living entity is in that position, as somebody has taken away his knowledge, that is demonic condition. But he can be reestablished again in knowledge. Just like a crazy man is sent, mental disorder, to hospital for treatment; again he comes as a sane man. Similarly, the demons are just like crazy men. Even they are treated with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can be reverted to their own position. So this is temporary. This demoniac nature is temporary due to the contact with māyā. Therefore the whole business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā. Then there is no more demonic nature.
General Lectures
So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is full representation of Kṛṣṇa in six aspects. That is... In the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta it has been explained, vande 'haṁ gurūn īśam īśāvatārakān īśa-bhaktān (CC Adi 1.1), prakāśāṁś ca tac-chaktīḥ, like that. So the Supreme Personality of Godhead is principally not divided, but He is understood under six primary features. The primary, first feature is guru, because guru gives the initiation to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That feature is represented by Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. He is the original guru feature, and He is first manifested expansion of Kṛṣṇa.
There is a prayer of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura in which it has been established that vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, balarāma haila nitāi. Vrajendra-nandana means Kṛṣṇa, the son of Mahārāja Nanda. Mahārāja Nanda was very rich man. He had ninety hundred thousand of cows. Formerly people were considered rich by possession of cows and grains—not by paper. (laughter) At the present moment, we have got bunch of paper. As soon as the particular government is finished, we are all..., we shall be finished. You simply... Just like in Germany it happened.
Young man (6): Don't you think that since there are people of different temperaments, different kinds of people, that... How should I say it? Don't you think that by denying rāja and jñāna and some of the other yogas that you're denying the infinite aspect of mankind? Don't you think that by asserting bhakti-yoga as the only way that you're saying that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Infinite aspect. We are publishing one article, "Dr. Frog." Dr. Frog means... Perhaps you know, everyone. The frog lives in a well. That is only a few feet. And one, another frog, he's giving information to his friend in the well, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast water, Atlantic Ocean." But this frog has never seen Atlantic Ocean. He's calculating, "It may be so much big. It may be so much big. It may be so much big." So how this infinity can be calculated by the frog? So those who are calculating infiniteness of this tiny soul, they're all Dr. Frogs. You are not infinite. You are finite. How you can be infinite? You can be infinite only when you dovetail yourself with the infinite. Individually you are finite. That is the position, real position. In the Bhagavad-gītā in the Fifteenth Chapter... You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So did you not read this verse in the Fifteenth Chapter, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7)? Have you read this? That "These living entities, they're My parts and parcels, fragmental parts." So you are... God is infinite.
Young man (6): I mean that the aspects of... Well, you said yourself that there are people of many different temperaments, many different kinds of people.
Prabhupāda: But there must be one standard temperament. What is the standard temperament? You may have different views of something, but there must be some standard view. We are not concerned with the different views of different persons. We have to accept the standard view.
Young man (6): What's that?
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa.
Young man (6): Well, but don't you think that perhaps bhakti-yoga isn't the way for everyone?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man (6): That for some people other yogas would apply more to their...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the preliminary stage. Just like the same example, that you have to go... In New York that Empire State Building, 102 story. So everyone is going to the top, but somebody has passed ten steps, somebody has passed twelve steps, somebody has passed twenty. But there may be thousands of steps.
The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely as Brahman, or the impersonal universal soul; Paramātmā, or the localized universal soul; and at the end as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. An individual soul is understood in three aspects, namely first in the consciousness pervading all over the body, then as the spirit soul within the heart, and ultimately exhibited as a person. Similarly, the Absolute Truth is first realized as impersonal Brahman, then as localized Supersoul, Paramātmā, and at the end as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-inclusive, or, in other words, Kṛṣṇa is simultaneously Brahman, Paramātmā, and the Personality of Godhead. As such, as every one of us is simultaneously consciousness, soul, and person, this individual person and the Supreme Lord Person are qualitatively one but quantitatively different. Just like the drop of sea water and the vast mass of sea water—both are qualitatively one. The chemical composition of the drop of sea water and that of the mass of sea water are one and the same, but the quantity of salt and other minerals in the whole sea is many, many times greater than the quantity of salt and other minerals contained in the drop of sea water.
And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "And He is the friend, most intimate friend, well-wisher friend of everyone." And He is seated with everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "My dear Arjuna, the Supreme Lord is seated with every living entity." So according to Vedic literature, Upaniṣad, we understand that the Supreme Lord, in His localized aspect, He is all-pervading. He is present everywhere. Not only that He is present in the church, but He is outside church, everywhere. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayān..., "He is present even within the atom." That is omnipresence. So He is present within you. It is not that you have to search out God anywhere else, but you can search out within yourself. And that searching process is called yoga. Our this subject matter today is yoga. That means to search out your self. Meditation means you have to meditate upon what you are. Are you this body? Are you this finger? Are you this head? You analyze one after another.
So there is 428..., 427,000 years to go. In a conversation with Swami Bhaktivedanta today, I was inquiring more about the details of the mythology, which are found in a book called the Bhāgavata Purāṇa. He explained that according to Hindu analysis we are five thousand years into the descent from a lighter age, the age of brass, the disappearance of Lord Kṛṣṇa, an aspect of the Hindu Deity Viṣṇu, preserver, or perhaps the supreme form of the preserver aspect of the universe, of ourselves, or of Viṣṇu. The disappearance of Kṛṣṇa, mythologically or historically, is five thousand years ago. We're five thousand years into the age of iron, and we have ten thousand years in which to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, which is to say, repeating the name of the aspect of the preservation, hope, that particular vibration of dancing joy transcending our cosmopolitical words. We have ten thousand for that play before there is a total descent into one-foot-tall monsters who eat each other up for meat because all the vegetables have disappeared, because DDT has completely geared out any biological life form except mammals who go around eating each other at that point.
Similarly, those who are trying to find out the Absolute Truth within the heart... Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). They are generally called yogis. And the philosophical speculators, they are called jñānīs. So jñānī, yogi. So the jñānīs, they reach up to the impersonal Brahman effulgence, and the yogis, they reach up to the localized aspect of the Supreme Person. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara, the Supreme Person, is within your heart, everyone's heart. Sarva-bhūtānām. Not only human beings, but also animals, trees, insects, aquatics. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. So in each and every living entity, within the heart, there is representation of God, who is known as Paramātmā. So brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). At last, Bhagavān. Bhaga. Bhaga means opulence, and van means possessing. So the possessor of the opulences in full is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is described in Vedic literature as Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. There is a list of different incarnations of God. Even Lord Buddha's name is there.
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Suppose you are eating. You can eat what you can digest. That you know yourself how much you can eat. But if after eating you take bunch of food for stocking at home, that is not allowed. You eat as much as you like. So your needs you can know. You haven't got to take instruction what is your need.
Guest: That is one aspect, but food is only one commodity. The world is very worried about far more than one commodity at the moment. What about all these needs of materials, of raw materials...? These are far more important than food.
Devotee: He says that food is only one need of the living being, but there are many other needs in today's society.
Prabhupāda: No. You have got only four needs. You want food, you want shelter, you want sense gratification, and you want defense. That's all. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithun. These needs are there even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they have also sex life, and they also defend in their own way. So you need these four things. So you can arrange for these four things, but not extraordinarily. People are increasing their needs artificially; therefore they are in trouble.
Madhudviṣa: (repeating question) St. Francis, the founder of this particular order which we have been invited to speak to, found God in the material world. And he used to address the aspects of the material world as "brother" and "sister." "Brother tree," "sister water," like that. What is your view upon this?
Prabhupāda: This is real God consciousness. This is real God consciousness, yes, not that "I am God conscious, and I kill the animals." That is not God conscious. To accept the trees, plants, lower animals, insignificant ants even, as brothers... Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- (BG 18.54)
Samaḥ. Samaḥ means equal to all living entities, to see the spirit soul, anyone... It doesn't matter whether he is man or cat or dog or tree or ant or insect or big man. They are all parts and parcel of God. They are simply dressed differently. One has got the dress of tree; one has got the dress of king; one has got the, insect. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ: (BG 5.18) "One who is paṇḍita, learned, his vision is equal."
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: He sees this happiness in a communal aspect. It must be for the greatest number. So he advocates a democracy where everyone is given unlimited individual freedom.
Prabhupāda: That is also another nonsense. In democracy nobody is happy. The so-called democracy does not give anyone any happiness. Otherwise in America, the greatest democratic country, why there are so many unhappy people? That also another nonsense. It is not possible.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the interest of the community would be the sum of the interests of the individuals in the community.
Prabhupāda: That is a compromise. That is not happiness, that "You don't harm me, I don't harm you, and we remain happy." That does not mean you are happy, I am happy. These are simply speculate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says that 40,000,000..., "Thousands of years before, I spoke this philosophy to Vivasvān"—we accept it. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: He says that there is an aspect of chance in nature.
Prabhupāda: Nature means always changing.
Śyāmasundara: Chance.
Prabhupāda: What?
Śyāmasundara: Chance. Accident. That there is an aspect of accident.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't accept that. If there would have been accident, so many planets are rotating in, and so forth... There is no collision. There is no accident. But in your motorcar there is so many accidents, and people are dying.
Śyāmasundara: He sees in our human conduct that we have the choice to make certain decisions, certain.
Śyāmasundara: But practically, the practical aspect of religion, that it imparts new zest to life, that it produces psychological and material effects, like that. But he didn't believe that God was unlimited. That was his... He believed that God was somehow limited; because there is evil, because evil exists, that God is somehow limited.
Prabhupāda: He does not know that evil does not exist independently. He does not know. In our śāstras it says that evil is the back side of God. But it is not independent of God. But either back side or front side, it is God; therefore it is absolute. I cannot neglect my back side. I cannot say that "You can beat me on my back side. Go on, kick me." That I cannot say. The back side is as important as the front side. But comparatively it is explained that evil is back side, pāpa, sin. That is back side of God.
Śyāmasundara: He says that we can cooperate with God...
Prabhupāda: That means when you are not in front side of God, you are sinful.
Devānanda: If one doesn't stand before God, he stands in darkness.
Śyāmasundara: He says that we can cooperate...
Prabhupāda: Those who are sinful, they cannot stand in front of God. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam:
Śyāmasundara: He does. The modern philosophers, his foIlowers like Sartre and Camus and people like that, they have only followed his lower development stages. They have not thought of this aspect of a religious stage. He said that the ethical stage is typified by a regard for duty, but this advances to the religious stage when there is obedience and commitment to God. And the chief symptoms of this stage...
Prabhupāda: So it is not that he is supporting our movement?
Śyāmasundara: No, no. He does. He says that the chief symptoms of the religious..., when one is advanced to the religious stage, are suffering and faith.
Prabhupāda: Not always suffering. (indistinct) We are, we in religious. Suppose we are in the topmost. Does it means that we are suffering?
Śyāmasundara: He is a Christian religionist. He's a Christian religionist. They give importance to suffering. "Christ suffered for us, so we..." He says that to abstain from sin means suffering, we are suffering.
Prabhupāda: That is also wrong theory. If Christ is God, or God's son, then why he should suffer? God is subjected to suffering? Then what kind of God He is?
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is advised here that one should not take up this troublesome path of self-realization because there is uncertainty in the ultimate result.
A living entity is eternally an individual soul, and if he wants to merge into the spiritual whole, he may accomplish the realization of the eternal and knowledgeable aspects of his original nature, but the blissful portion is not realized. By the grace of some devotee, such a transcendentalist, highly learned in the process of jñāna-yoga, may come to the point of bhakti-yoga, or devotional service. At that time, long practice in impersonalism also becomes a source of trouble, because he cannot give up the idea. Therefore an embodied soul is always in difficulty with the unmanifest, both at the time of practice and at the time of realization. Every living soul is partially independant, and one should know for certain that this unmanifested realization is against the nature of his spiritual blissful self. One should not take up this process. For every individual living entity the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which entails full engagement in devotional service, is the best way. If one wants to ignore this devotional service, there is the danger of turning to atheism.
Hayagrīva: The will to live is the irrational urge that brings about all suffering. And his is a philosophy of extinction. Now in his first book, The World Is Idea, he ascribes to the philosophy of māyā, like a Māyāvādī. He writes, "The Vedas and Purāṇas have no better simile than a dream for the whole knowledge of the actual world, which they call the web of māyā, and they use none more frequently." From this Schopenhauer concludes that life is a long dream. "What is this world of perception besides being my idea? Is that of which I am conscious only as idea exactly like my own body, of which I am doubly conscious, in one aspect as idea, in another aspect as will?" So from this he concludes that life is a projection of the will.
Prabhupāda: This material life?
Hayagrīva: Material life is a projection of the will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has read it. It is taken from Indian... It is called vāsanā. Vāsanā means desire. So that desire, material desire, but the living entity cannot be desireless. Desireless..., nirvāṇa means material desires finished. But because living entity is eternal spiritual being, he is, he has got spiritual desire. Now it is covered. The desire is there, desire is constant companion, but because it is materially covered, we are thinking this temporary world as reality, and it is not reality; therefore it is changing.
Prabhupāda: That's it. We also accept that. So after many, many births, 8,400,000 species of life, one gets this human form of life, and that also, civilized life, that also, in India, following the Vedic principles, that is the highest birth.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the human being has the material aspect of individuality plus the spiritual aspect of personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that personality understanding is the perfect understanding. The Absolute Truth, as it is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, is realized in three phases: impersonal Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is person. So to..., when one comes to Bhagavān understanding, that is the highest perfection. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) after many, many births of cultivating knowledge, one actually is wise, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this is..., because of this spiritual personality that he can know and love God.
Prabhupāda: They are becoming hippies. What benefit is there? He has degraded the whole nation.
Śyāmasundara: I think we have many clothes out on the line.
Devotee: I don't think that in this discussion that we can convince in any way the (indistinct). I think the invalid aspects of Freud (indistinct) called irrational.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: We have scientific reasons
Devotee: But there are aspects of Freud's philosophy and psychology which they feel have proven beneficial for mankind. So many cases of, say, someone is paralyzed and they can't find any direct physical reason why a person can't walk, and through analysis they are able to trace down that it is due to some repressed trauma, what they call trauma.
Prabhupāda: What is?
Hayagrīva: ...and on Sigmund Freud, you discussed with Śyāmasundara Prabhu the sexual aspects, but not the theological aspects. Freud wrote two basic books on religion, Future of an Illusion, and there was a great deal in Leonardo da Vinci, A Study in Psycho-sexuality. He writes, "Psychoanalysis, which has taught us the intimate connection between the father complex and belief in God, has shown us that the personal God is psychologically nothing but an exalted father. Youthful persons lose their religious belief as soon as the authority of the father breaks down." So he sees God as basically a father complex arising out of the need of help of the little child.
Prabhupāda: That little child, how he can give up the idea of father? And how Mr. Freud can give up the idea? Was he not born by a father?
Hayagrīva: He feels that...
Prabhupāda: He dropped from the sky? Huh? Did, did he?
Hayagrīva: He feels that this is childish.
Prabhupāda: That childish, what is that childish? He had no father?
Śyāmasundara: And he said that each culture, or civilization, religion, they have the same understanding of the duality of existence, that there's an equal amount of dark, an equal amount of light, which he calls the yin and yang aspect or the anima and animus aspect. Under different names the same understanding is there in all religions.
Prabhupāda: Is that equality, darkness?
Śyāmasundara: Darkness and lightness—the duality of nature. Unconscious and conscious, he calls; these two things. He says that everyone has..., understands these are equal, balanced, these two stages, states of existence.
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily equal. Sometimes it may be imbalance. One side may be heavier than the other.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Actually he says that most personalities are imbalanced and that the goal of life is to become balanced, or integrated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hmm.
Prabhupāda: He mentions animals?
Devotee: No. He called it anima. It's a Greek word for the female aspect of nature.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Śyāmasundara: And the male aspect is often represented by the sun or (indistinct) sky or the father, called the animus, the father aspect of nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We also compare sun as the (indistinct) knowledge. Just like we compare Kṛṣṇa with sun and māyā with darkness.
Śyāmasundara: And māyā is a woman.
Prabhupāda: Māyā is woman. You can compare like that, darkness. Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama māyā andhakāra (CC Madhya 22.31). So as soon as there is sunshine, there is no more darkness. Similarly, when, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no more that state of unconsciousness or dreaming. (indistinct) conscious.
Śyāmasundara: He says that all human entities have a mixture of divine and demonic tendencies.
Śyāmasundara: So for instance in nature, he sees male and female characteristics. For instance a mountain, we see a mountain and we give it a male, a male characteristic because it is strong, it is dominant, it is (indistinct), like this. And the sea, which is passive and calm and deep, we give a female aspect. He sees all these in nature.
Prabhupāda: These are all mental concoction. It has to be more scientifical. You can think of something in your own idea. That's all. That is not the real identity of it. What is that?
Devotee (3): You said that all things are created out of the water of origination. There's an ocean, the Kāraṇodaka, by which all these worlds are generated, (indistinct) the primeval ocean, from which (indistinct) the ocean...
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the ocean has been generated? Everything is generated from the breathing of Lord Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is lying in that ocean, that's all. So I'm lying on this bed, and something is coming out of my breathing, that does not mean it is coming from the bed. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: So this Jung sees a positive aspect of psychology, not just the negative aspect, whereas Freud saw that the goal of psychology was to restrict or reach (indistinct) these powerful, primitive instincts then to mitigate troublesome symptoms, which is a rather pessimistic or negative philosophy. Jung says that man is capable of changing positively into something better by the use of psychology.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why he was making this propaganda unless there is chance that we will be better? And actually we see they are becoming better.
Śyāmasundara: So actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also psychology.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) That is the term of psychology. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: (BG 6.47) "Of all the yogis, the Kṛṣṇa devotee is the highest, topmost." All, of all psychologists, the person who is Kṛṣṇa conscious is the most elevated. Transcendental position. Everyone is within the modes of the material nature, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is above, transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he did not accept the soul. That as soon as he denied the personal aspect of the soul, how there can be personal karma? So he wanted to avoid this; otherwise his whole philosophy becomes different.
Hayagrīva: Well this is Jung's conclusion on the matter. He says, "Have I lived before in the past as a specific person?" (break) (aside:) ...other track?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Hayagrīva: This is a continuation of Jung. Concerning whether or not karma is personal, Jung concludes, "Have I lived before in the past as a specific personality, and did I progress so far in that life that I am now able to seek a solution?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is tle fact.
Hayagrīva: He says, "I do not know."
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, tataḥ paurva-dehikaṁ yatate paurva-dehikam. This is individual.
Śyāmasundara: He stresses two aspects (in the) theory of dialectical materialism. The one on which he placed the most emphasis is the aspect of the pragmatic element of philosophy, that philosophy must have practical effect. And the other aspect is the contradiction between capitalism and communism, and this contradiction involves conflicts and eventual revolution. He agrees with Hegel that without conflict, there can be no progress. Do we accept this? Without conflict, there is no progress?
Prabhupāda: Our Kurukṣetra battle is a conflict between Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. So after the conflict, the Pāṇḍavas became the kings. So that is admitted; without conflict, you cannot make progress.
Śyāmasundara: Is that true on every level of...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere He is there. And personal is localized, and..., but from the person, the impersonal effulgence come out. That we understand from the Bhagavad-gītā: brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. As the big sunshine comes from the localized sun globe—the sun globe is situated in one place, but this, the rays of the sun is distributed all over the universe—similarly, impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth is that by His transcendental rays, prabhā, yasya prabhā prabhavata (Bs. 5.40), illumination. Just like the fire has got heat and light. It expands. So the impersonal feature of the Lord expands unlimitedly, and the Personality, it appears that He is limited, but He is unlimited by His energy. That is the perfect conception. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). By His impersonal feature He is all-pervading. By His localized aspect He is living everywhere, omnipresent, within the heart of all living entities, within the atom even. And by His personal feature He is worshiped by the devotee. Wherever the devotee is there, He is present personally. Tatra dṛṣṭami dhanataḥ yatra nayanti mad-bhaktaḥ (?). That is His omnipresent, although He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. So nobody can calculate how many miles away that planet is, still, when a devotee like Prahlāda is in danger, He is immediately present there. That is the meaning of omnipresence.
Prabhupāda: He, he is confused because he is also speculating. So these things will remain confused, whether the Absolute Truth is person, imperson. Generally, without spiritual advancement nobody can understand about the Absolute Truth, and so he, that doubt continues. But when there is question of love between the Absolute and the relative, there must be the personal conception, and actually He is person, Kṛṣṇa. So by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, when he gets in touch with the devotee, his impersonal conception of the Absolute is removed, and then he worships the personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, and devotee. Then his life is successful.
Hayagrīva: Concerning the fall of the soul, Plotinus believes that the human soul never entirely leaves the spiritual realm.
Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life.
Hayagrīva: The son. God the son brings the material world into existence. God the father is not the direct creator; it is the son who is the direct creator. The Ho... The third aspect of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit, and he is in turn subordinate to the, to the son. So these Holy Spirits, they liken unto the...
Prabhupāda: Holy Spirit, he is the son?
Hayagrīva: There's the father.
Prabhupāda: Father.
Hayagrīva: There's the son, who is the direct creator of the material, like Brahmā.
Prabhupāda: The son, the son.
Hayagrīva: Like Brahmā, the perfect son. And then there's the Holy Spirit, that is all-pervasive. And all three of these aspects are divine and co-eternal. They exist..., they've always existed within the Trinity of God. They've always existed simultaneously.
Hayagrīva: He speaks of theism and pantheism. Now we might equate theism with personalism and pantheism with impersonal, the impersonal aspect.
Prabhupāda: There is nothing... Impersonal means when we cannot see that the background is person. We can of course take the lesson from nature that the sunshine is impersonal but the background is sun-god. But because we are in a very lower stage of life we can simply experience the sunshine but we cannot go and talk with the sun-god. That is not possible. So similarly, the background is person and the expansion of God's energy is imperson. So because we are in the energy, we are not directly in touch with God; therefore we say that God is an imperson. We have no such capacity now, but they, if we become devotee, we can attain that position when he can talk with God in person as the gopīs and the cowherds boy, Mother Yaśodā and other in Vṛndāvana inhabitants they are doing.
Hayagrīva: Now he analyzes theism, which is the personal aspect, and pantheism, the impersonal aspect, and he finds both defective in themselves, and so what is his position? This is his position: "If the question is asked whether the speculative conception of God or Deity which has been advanced here as part of the empirical treatment of space/time, and has appeared to be verified by religious experience belongs to theism or pantheism, the answer must be that it is not strictly referable to either of them. Taken by itself..."
Prabhupāda: That is his mistake. As you have explained that the sky is also with reference to God... The sky is explained as the heart of God, and the water is explained as the semina of God, the moon is explained as the mind of God, the sun is explained as the eyes of God, the land is explained as the foot of God. So everything is with reference to God. So for a person who understands God, there is nothing existing without God. So how God can be separate? That is the fact. So pantheism or any "ism" you take, it has reference with God.
Prabhupāda: So he is..., he does not believe..., there is no belief in God is there? There is no question of? No. But our point of view is different: that God is the ultimate decider of everything. That is called daiva-netreṇa. He may be acting through different agents, but ultimate decision is given by Him. And He is sitting in everyone's heart. He is observing the activities of the individual soul as witness, giving permission. Without God's permission, nobody can act. So He is giving intelligence also, and He is the cause of forgetting. Two things are there, remembering and forgetting. Both these things are coming from God. If He keeps him in forgetfulness, then he cannot remember, and if He gives him the power to remember, he can remember for long, long past activities. So ultimately God is the final director. That is our conception. Man cannot remain independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Everything is being done, impelled by the three material modes of nature, and the ultimate dictator is the Supersoul, or the Personality of Godhead in His localized aspect, situated everywhere in the heart of the living entity, or even within the atom He is there, and His is the supreme director.
Hayagrīva: He says, "The universe is to be studied not for its own sake but for the sake of man, or rather of humanity. To study in any other spirit would not only be immoral but also highly irrational." This is the old Greek Sophist position, that man is the measure of all things.
Hayagrīva: The role of woman he envisioned as that of man's companion. He says, "The first aspect, then, under which positivism considers women is simply as the companion of man, irrespective of her maternal duties," and that this friendship or companionship has as its basis sex. He says, "Conjugal union becomes a perfect ideal of friendship, yet still more beautiful than friendship, because each possesses and is possessed by the other. For perfect friendship, difference of sex is essential as excluding the possibility of rivalry." So he felt that sex, there can actually be very little friendship between men, because there's no sexual basis, that sex is the basis for the friendship between the sexes.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So woman, sex, there is sex, sexual necessity and the bodily demand. So woman not only give the sex pleasure to the man, but woman should prepare good foodstuff also for the man. The man is working very hard. When he comes home, if the wife supplies him good foodstuff and nice comfort and sex, then the home becomes very happy. That is practical experience. So after hard working, when man comes home, if he finds out good foodstuff and nicely satisfied by eating, and then the woman gives satisfaction by sex, then both of them remain fully satisfied, and then they can improve their real business, spiritual understanding, because human life is meant for making progress in spiritual understanding. Spiritual, first of all they must know that the spirit soul is the basis of material life even, and the body is built up on the soul, and within the body there is soul.
| Page Title: | Aspect (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, RupaManjari, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Jul, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=64, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 64 |