Expressions researched:
"aspect"
|"aspects"
Prabhupāda: We don't mention any particular thing. Generally we say "No intoxication."
Interviewer: But that's a negative. I'm talking now about... What about the positive aspects of it? Because I have known some very wicked people who never indulged in intoxicants.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes...
Interviewer: I doubt if that is your dividing line.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Simply becoming non-intoxicated does not mean that he is a very good man. That I admit.
Prabhupāda: So if you make comparative study, then this Kṛṣṇa knowledge includes all knowledge. The Vedas also confirm it, yasmin sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavati. If you understand the Supreme, then all knowledge becomes automatically revealed. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, "Knowing this, you'll have nothing to know anymore." In the ninth chapter there is. So first of all we have to seriously study. Therefore I'm asking that to become serious student, what is the difference between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān? Paramātmā is localized aspect of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And Brahman is the effulgence of the Absolute. And Parambrahma, or Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is Kṛṣṇa. So if you have full Kṛṣṇa knowledge, then you have got Brahman knowledge and Paramātmā knowledge.
Guest (1): No, not invention.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to take the version of the śāstras; then it will be possible. If you invent something, try to speculate on something, it will not be successful.
Guest (1): I'm not, you see... In the middle, I may be speculating or you see, trying to... Coming to the human aspect itself, now so many want happiness. Happiness is checked up because of...
Prabhupāda: That material coating.
Guest (1): Material things.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): Now, we want... Because this want is there... Want is made by own nature and there is no way throughout our... Now when we earning means there's so much contami..., mean, sea of...
Prabhupāda: That is not happiness.
Prabhupāda: Therefore He is one, both body and soul, one. That is one.
Guest (1): Swamiji, material aspect in your understanding, they are one?
Prabhupāda: Therefore He is nonmaterial. Therefore He has spoken... No, no, if you compare with Him ordinary man, then at once you become a mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. No, you say... This is the saying of Bhagavad-gītā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ (BG 9.11). (Hindi) "Because I have taken this human form of life, the rascals, they think I am a human being." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (2): I think... As my understanding of this aspect is concerned, He says, "When I adopt this medium through which I give this jñāna, mūḍhā-matī do not understand Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, mūḍhā-matī, how to understand?
Guest (2): "Cannot recognize Me."
Prabhupāda: Suppose I am mūḍhā-matī, so how I am to understand?
Guest (2): Yes, but Kṛṣṇa as a body form could be seen and could be recognized by people as such. So there was no question of not understanding him.
Prabhupāda: Thing is that whatever I have understood about Kṛṣṇa I haven't got to learn from you.
Interviewer: The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, seems to play a very important role in the profession of your religious belief. Right? In fact, I think I will ask you and some of your followers who are sitting here with us tonight a little bit later to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit... I have not read much, of course, but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings, your magazines, your publications...
Prabhupāda: I may correct here that it is not my belief.
Interviewer: Well, as you interpret it in your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me, sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Interviewer: Much more so than upon the...
Prabhupāda: That is for everyone.
Interviewer: The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, seems to play a very important role in the profession of your religious belief. Right? In fact, I think I will ask you and some of your followers who are sitting here with us tonight, a little bit later, to, to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit—and I have not read much of course—but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings and, you know, your magazine or your publications...
Prabhupāda: I may correct here, that it is not my belief.
Interviewer: Well in the, as you interpret it your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Everything was done by Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Singh: When He went as Addhutta(?). That to my mind is even the more important aspect of this whole story, because it...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, when everything was done by Him and Arjuna declined to fight, therefore Kṛṣṇa called him foolish, it is foolishness. Therefore He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. And when he came to his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he took up the opportunity. He said plainly that "Arjuna, you fight or don't fight, these people are not going back home. That is already settled up." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. So this plan was made by Kṛṣṇa, and there was no other alternative.
Dr. Singh: Arjuna was very lucky to have Kṛṣṇa there to tell him what the plan was.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if still people are unhappy with this movement, then what can be done? (pause)
Author: So you say that you encourage anybody who disagrees with aspects of your philosophy to argue with you?
Prabhupāda: No. We invite everyone, "Please come and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So if one disagrees, why he will come?
Author: But don't you suggest that if somebody feels that they can find fault in your philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Then let him explain what is that fault. Then we can reply. But without fault, if they make some, what is called?
Pradyumna: Complaint?
Prabhupāda: Complaints, that is very difficult thing. What is our fault? Please tell me?
Author: Then sir, I want to ask you about, well... It seems this book is impracticable without the kind of material I want. Now, I don't want to adopt an uncompromising position at all, but I am convinced that you misunderstand my motivations. I don't know how to persuade you that my motivations are good ones, and so therefore I am in a corner, in a cul de sac. Now, the material that I must have in this book is sufficient to be able to persuade people that they are reading about something which is true. That means, for example, that I...
Prabhupāda: So, that books we have already published. To convince people that this is nice movement, we have got dozens of books, and they are selling nicely. Practically we are standing by the sales of our books and literature. How to convince people that this is a nice movement—we are ourselves publishing. You cannot publish better book than what we have done. We know the interest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...
Author: But I can assure you that it's also necessary to communicate something of the rather superficial aspects of the movement, which, I think I agree with you, are much less important than the philosophy. But it is also necessary to communicate these.
Prabhupāda: Now, our simple philosophy is that we are spirit soul. We are eternal. You are eternal. I am eternal. Everyone is eternal. We are changing our body, transmigrating from one body to another. And that means repetition of birth and death, but we are eternal. Why we are in such botheration of repetition of birth and death? Not only that, sometimes in some species of life, may be very high position, sometimes in low position. Suppose somebody is American, and the next life, if he becomes a tree, if he becomes a dog... He may become a demigod also. There is possibility. Just like in future you may be a... (break) ...understand this movement thoroughly and take it seriously. It is for good welfare, for very good welfare. Now, in Europe, America, here also, so many frustrated young boys, they are coming to be practically of no value to the country. In America I see thousands of hippies, they are doing nothing.
Author: Sir, when somebody joins your movement, when they first come to see your movement, what presents itself to them-men with shaven heads and saffron-colored robes who dance in the street and who sing songs, strange songs—these are strange aspects. And in themselves they are not especially significant to an understanding of the philosophy, are they?
Prabhupāda: No, this is... This chanting and dancing is for mass of people, but when you want to discuss philosophy, we have got volumes of books. Yes. Both things we have got. We are attracting both the intelligent class of men and the mass of people, even the children.
Prabhupāda: So how they can say beyond this universe there is no other?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot say that. They still say that there is unlimited aspects that increase for the visible as well as...
Prabhupāda: Invisible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: They think that that which they can't perceive they can understand by mathematical laws and physical laws. They just discovered about the laws.
Prabhupāda: But there are so many laws, infinitum. The divisions, (indistinct) infinitum.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, all physical laws are discovered by mathematics. Beyond our imagination.
Prabhupāda: Just like in our childhood we were thinking a gramophone machine, how it can speak without a man? There must be a man within.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this search for these symptoms are based only on the bodily comforts or bodily aspects.
Prabhupāda: But where you are getting the bodily comforts? Supposing you are (indistinct). The (indistinct) searches after bodily comfort, but still they are not getting bodily comfort. Where is the bodily comfort? There is disease, there is old age. Where is bodily comfort? You cannot stop it. It is very good that you are searching after bodily comfort, but there are so many discomforts of the body and the mind. You cannot stop it, then where is your actually benefit of searching out bodily comfort? You could not do it. Where is bodily comfort?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, they will say that in early history people used to live in the caves and they used to wear skins.
Prabhupāda: That is your rascal's conception. They used to live in palaces. You are rascal; you do not know the history.
Scholar: But we think in the present day, Indonesia's, we think about harmonizing spiritual and material aspects of life, this our...
Prabhupāda: No. No. Harmonize means... First of all you must know what is harmonization. Harmonization means that this material life means bodily concept of life. This is material life. "I am this body." Generally people think like that: "I am Indonesian." "I am American." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." And they take care of the country where he's born. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijyadhīḥ, but this conception, bodily conception of life, has made the whole human society like cats and dogs. "It is my land. It is my..." Just like a dog. As soon as another dog comes. "Bark, bark, bark, bark. Why you have come here? Why you have come here." So this, this kind of harmonization is dog civilization.
Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.
Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?
Umāpati: Father, how is it that we can enjoy this energy we are in, Kṛṣṇa's energy now, and we acknowledge it as Kṛṣṇa's in the neophyte stage. A pure devotee realizes it as Kṛṣṇa's energy, but as a neophyte, how do we enjoy material energy in this aspect, the fresh air and the morning walk.
Prabhupāda: A neophyte or anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. There is no question of enjoyment. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. But he takes the suffering as enjoyment. That is māyā. That is māyā. Just like in your country, they are working day and night. Just like from the morning, gugugugugugugugugu (makes noise of machine that is on nearby) They are suffering, but the people are coming, enjoying golf. That is suffering only. From the morning, going here, is it not suffering? (laughter) But he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is māyā.
David Wynne: Well, God created it, and it seems to be the aspect of God that we are attached to.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
David Wynne: (laughs) But I'd rather you told me, sir.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Śyāmasundara: This material world is like an aspect of God that we are attached to, but the God behind we don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our foolishness, that we do not know that behind this material cosmic manifestation, there is God. That information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That means this cosmic manifestation is creation of God. The vast water is created by God. The vast land is created by God. Everything is created by God. Do you believe that?
Prabhupāda: You can... (Prabhupāda is eating) Horrible. ...carve so many pastimes of God, Kṛṣṇa's. In India, the sculptor used to do like that.
Haṁsadūta: Everywhere, all over the world, art's business was to make scenes of..., spiritual scenes.
David Wynne: There's no great art that isn't religious in the world, that isn't to do about God. Because art about man is already debased, isn't it. Yes, must be. But I feel that if one even me, even people like me, the ordinary people making ordinary things, if they're, if it is praising nature... Because nature's an aspect of God, isn't it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Travelling to visit higher planets, still in the material world, to accumulate experiences before going back home, back to Godhead. I was trying to explain the more important aspect...
Prabhupāda: You can, you can experience. That is stated in the Bhāgavata.
Guru-gaurāṅga: She wants to go to other planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Before going home.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhāgavata. Yogis, they try to see also other planets. They're inquisitive. Instead of going directly to the planet of Kṛṣṇa, they want to see intermediate planets, how they are working.
Prabhupāda: But your revelation and my revelation different. Why?
Hṛdayānanda: "Because God has so many different aspects that He reveals a different aspect to everyone."
Prabhupāda: That is their argument. Then what is the standard of that aspect? Just like in the material world we see, somebody richer than others. This is also aspect of material situation. So if one is millionaire, he is better than a person who has got a few coins. So similarly, your realization of God and my realization of God, different. So I may be greater realized than you. What do you say, theologian?
Prajāpati: Well, today, Prabhupāda most of the literature is written on subjects of death of God, an eclipse of God, the fact that the people in general, it's a secular society and no one is even discussing God.
Prabhupāda: That means they have failed. After discussing when they could not find out actually what is God, they have given up the idea. Failure.
Prabhupāda: What is that future? What do you want to do in future?
Prajāpati: Actually permeate all the media with Kṛṣṇa consciousness propaganda, not simply just writing but actually all aspects of...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can take advantage of all this media. That we are doing. Just like we are taking advantage of this microphone. We are not rejecting, "Oh, it is material. Why should we take?" Nothing material. Anything used for Kṛṣṇa is spiritual. Material means what is not used for Kṛṣṇa. That is material. You are materialistic when you are not used for Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you are utilized for Kṛṣṇa, you are spiritualistic. That is the difference. Here we say, "This is material world." This is material world because everyone has forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is material world. So if they come into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is spiritual. (break) ...conscious people now challenge this rascal that "We are searching after Kṛṣṇa. We are not searching... We are devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and you are posing yourself as Kṛṣṇa. So show us some Kṛṣṇa's power. We immediately come to you."
Prabhupāda: No... People are in doubt whether there is God, or "If there is God, He might have died by this time." So there are so many... (laughs) Yes. When I first went to U.S.A., the theory was "God is dead." But when I began to speak, they realized, "No, God is not dead. God is with Swamiji." They wrote. They wrote articles. So asaṁśayaṁ...
Mr. Sar: Samagraṁ māṁ. From all aspects.
Prabhupāda: From all aspects. Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu. So Kṛṣṇa is speaking about Himself. We can speculate about God. That way we'll never be successful. Because we have got limited senses. Therefore you hear from Kṛṣṇa about Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti-yoga.
Mr. Sar: And He wants to tell the jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). "What I have realized, I tell you."
Prabhupāda: No, not realized!
Guest (1): Experienced.
Prabhupāda: Sa-vijñānam, how it can be practically applied.
Prabhupāda: No, what is that love of God? That is already answered, that "We have also love of God."
Pañcadraviḍa: If you love someone, what are you doing? What is the aspect of your personal life?
Prabhupāda: "No, what we are not doing? What you are doing?"
Pañcadraviḍa: Our engagement is twenty-four hours.
Prabhupāda: "That may be. One may be engaged twenty-four hours or may be engaged for eight hours. That does not mean, you cannot say that I have no love for God." (pause)
Akṣayānanda: It has already been predicted in the śāstra that this method of chanting the holy name of God will be accepted by everyone in the world.
Prabhupāda: "That may be in your śāstra. But what is the extra thing? That chanting, that's all right. We also go to the church and sing hymns also."
Prabhupāda: No.
O'Grady: You may achieve recognition of the God that's in yourself, of that aspect.
Prabhupāda: When you are God conscious...
O'Grady: Without being pantheistic, you mean?
Prabhupāda: Just Like if you come in front of the sunlight, the sun consciousness is there, which includes your personal conscious... you also see. In the darkness you cannot see. At night you do not see even your hands and legs. But if you come in front of the sun, or light, then you see the sun and see yourself. So without the sunlight, without God consciousness, self consciousness is incomplete. But God consciousness makes self consciousness very clear.
Prabhupāda: At the present moment in the society, there is very, very little care for the first-class intellectual class of men.
C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.
Jyotirmayī: So he said this is a real problem, how to practice religion, not only on the individual platform, but also on the social platform.
Prabhupāda: No, we are teaching, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are teaching how to practice religion. (French)
Jyotirmayī: He said that even though he himself is materialist and atheist, he propagates this in his articles, in his newspaper, you know, he propagates certain aspects of religion.
Prabhupāda: No. First of all, we must know what is religion, and what is atheist or what is theist. First of all, if we know what is religion, then we can define who is following, who is not following. (French)
Jyotirmayī: So he said what he can give is his own experience of religion and what he is propagating when he talks in his articles...
Prabhupāda: What is his experience of religion? (French)
Jyotirmayī: So he said that in Hinduism, what he thinks is the best...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion is not meant for Hindus or Christians—for everyone. So there must be a general definition of religion.
Prabhupāda: Very good. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the religions that come from India are infinitely richer than the religion we know in the West. And we cannot see only one aspect. He says there is so many faces in Indian religions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He said that is the distinction between the dogmatic aspect between the Hindu religions and the western religion.
Bhagavān: What is that? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the western or the Christian religion are marked by dogmatists and they are very...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: He says that western religions are narrow-minded, that they don't have the openness that the religions of the East have in India, for example. And that the West has this capitalist, imperialistic tendency which is also supported by its religion.
Prabhupāda: No. First... Therefore I asked what does he mean by religion. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says we can't say... His point is we can't say something. There is so many aspects of religion. There is the bhakti-yoga, by love and by heart. There is the karma-yoga, by action. There's jñāna-yoga, by knowledge. He says if in western countries, we propagate bhakti-yoga, we take the risk of using bhakti-yoga like a drug or something like this, if you are dreaming or something like that.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Bhakti-yoga by drugs?
Pṛthu Putra: He says, he made the statement...
Prabhupāda: That is...
Pṛthu Putra: ...according to the state of the French people, in right now, in this time.
Prabhupāda: But we do not prescribe drug. We ask them to give up drug. (laughter)
Paramahaṁsa: He appreciates the fact that it has a coherent aspect, that it holds together logically. And this is what he appreciates.
Yogeśvara: He respects the Vaiṣṇava philosophy because it is substantial. It doesn't contradict itself.
Karandhara: So then the... If the Vaiṣṇava philosophy has a systematic logic, then integrity would dictate that we have to surrender or accept that logic. If a logic is true, we can't stand apart from it and simply observe it. We have to accept it ourselves.
Church Representative: (French)
Bhagavān: You are right on the brink of Absolute Truth. Don't run away. (laughs)
Yogeśvara: He says that even though he has a great interest in this discussion, because he has prior commitments, he's unable to stay.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all...
Prabhupāda: Then why he is anxious for man's suffering? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the man is there. The suffering is there.
Prabhupāda: No. So why he is bothering about suffering? He was zero, beginning, and he will be zero and now he is also zero. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says there is two aspect. There is this aspect: everything is zero. But there is another aspect. There is a man who is always searching after to find the solution to his problem.
Prabhupāda: Why solution? He will automatically become zero. Then finish everything. (laughter)
Karandhara: Just dying that solves all the problems.
Prabhupāda: No, he said that is natural. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says religious life is a very deep thing on man and he has to search out, and that must be his goal. Even if there is no reason, it doesn't matter. He has to search.
Prabhupāda: No. Then how he can explain from zero something so important come into existence? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says actually he doesn't start from zero. He starts from the cosmic force.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Absolute Truth is realized in three aspect. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Some realize the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman, others realize the Absolute Truth as localized Paramātmā, situated in everyone's heart, and the final realization is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we are cultivating the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So which aspect you are cultivating, the Paramātmā or the impersonal Brahman or the Personality of Godhead?
Professor Durckheim: You can't help cultivate all three in the long run.
Prabhupāda: No, all three are one. But it is the angle of vision only. Just like a mountain—somebody from distant place looking, hazy clouds, something. The mountain is the same, but from long distance one realizes as hazy cloud. Little more nearer, they realize something green. And if somebody goes in the mountain, he realizes the mountain and the animals and the residential place, everything. The objective is the same, but the angle of vision different. So in India or everywhere, some realizing the Absolute Truth as impersonal, without any variegatedness.
Dr. Muncing: It wasn't the manufacturing aspect. It was the creative aspect that I was concerned with, that there is a creative faculty in man that can be used to benefit the rest of mankind. Isn't there a tendency...
Prabhupāda: Creative faculty... Therefore we first of all give stress, the creative faculty, that the watchmaker is doing nice work, but who has made that watchmaker? Who is that creative faculty? You are a scientist, you have good brain, but you cannot manufacture the brain. But who has manufactured your brain?
Guest (2): But isn't it the use to which the brain is put that is the...
Prabhupāda: If you are scientist, you create a similar brain like you. That you cannot do. But somebody has created your brain. And who is that person? Professor Einstein, big scientist, but he could not create another Professor Einstein so that after his death the work would continue. Because the brain creator, the brain of scientist created by somebody, that is not in your hand. You cannot create another similar brain. That is not possible. But if you are surprised with the mechanical arrangement of the small watch, why you should not study the mechanical arrangement of a great scientist? But as the mechanical arrangement of the watch is made by some brain, similarly, your brain or Professor Einstein's brain, that is also made by another scientist. And who is that scientist? We are glorifying the brain of the scientist but we are not glorifying the scientist who has made the brain of the scientist.
Hṛdayānanda: He says if to be sinless is not something more profound than simply restricting the body from some things, if there's not a more profound aspect of sinlessness.
Prabhupāda: The body is consider... Just like if you have got high fever, you cannot act your brain.
Hṛdayānanda: You cannot?
Prabhupāda: Act your brain. Similarly, this is also like fever, sinful fever, so you cannot act your brain for understanding higher spiritual matters.
Yoga student: Well, the Sufis do see that, the personal aspect of the Lord...
Prabhupāda: Unless one is person, how can I serve him? I cannot serve the air or the sky. I must serve a person. Love does not exist in the sky or in the air. It must be a person. Man or woman, it doesn't matter. Otherwise where there is love? Whom to love?
Yoga student: The Sufis find love in these figures... For example, the Sufi Ib'n Araby(?), through of the face of a beautiful woman...
Prabhupāda: Through the face of beautiful woman?
Yoga student: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So there the materialists also find.
Yoga student: That is the material aspect, absolutely.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him."
Yoga student: With Kṛṣṇa can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead, which presents itself to man, and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān? Yes, in the original.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Same as Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Just like the sun. Sunshine is very big, and the sun globe is not so big. But which is important, the sunshine or the sun globe?
Yoga student: But it's the glow which reaches man.
Prabhupāda: Eh, these are example.
Prabhupāda: Infinite. But what is the platform of that ānanda, material or spiritual?
Young man: Of course, ānanda means very much spiritual aspect.
Prabhupāda: But if somebody wants to derive ānanda by sense pleasure, is that spiritual?
Young man: Our practices has...
Prabhupāda: Tantra means they want to derive pleasure through the senses. So is that spiritual?
Young man: Our gurudeva says that not only do we do vidyā-tantra but both the Tantric practices avidyā and vidyā has to be practiced. So one has to go beyond...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Then if God is to be served, then He must be a person, otherwise where is the question of serving?
Guest: Well, the Sufis do see that, the personal aspect of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is person, how can I serve him? I cannot serve the air or the sky. I must serve a person. Love does not exist in the sky or in the air. There must be a person, man or woman, it doesn't matter. Otherwise, where there is love? Whom to love?
Guest: The Sufis find love in these figures. For example, the Sufis in (indistinct) through the face of a beautiful woman.
Prabhupāda: Face of beautiful woman, then the materialists also find.
Guest: It's a material aspect, actually.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted.
Guest: Is Kṛṣṇa.... Can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead that presents itself to man and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, yes, the original.
Devotee: The same as Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Just like the sun. The sunshine is very big, but the sun globe is not so big. But which is the form, the sunshine or the sun globe?
Guest: But its the glow which reaches man because...
Prabhupāda: No, these are examples.
Guest: He can't really touch the globe because he would be consumed.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, qualitative change. But if, there are five elements. It is made of fire, that's all. As your body is made of earth, that sun globe or sun god's body is made of fire. There are other planets also, the body is made of air. Because you do not find more than these five elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky-gross and subtle—mind, intelligence. So, subtle, the same gross, somewhere fire is prominent, somewhere water is prominent, air is prominent, somewhere earth is prominent. So here in this world, in this planet, the earth is prominent.
Haṁsadūta: And she says the second aspect of her questioning will be the practical side of it, like feeding the people here, like feeding the people here, what we are actually doing, like building this house, feeding the people in the neighboring towns, or teaching them English or teaching them how to cultivate the land, like that.
Prabhupāda: Our... You take answer one after another.
Haṁsadūta: Yes...
Prabhupāda: Not put all the questions.
Haṁsadūta: So you can begin.
Prabhupāda: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) (break) Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do—that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rūpānuga... Rūpānuga is already getting one book together, so you can write a chapter in it. There's a book, and he's going to comment... It's a scientific book on different aspects and he's commenting on, I think, social, various social applications. So you can comment on the theosophical points. I mean it can be included in this book. Actually if you have the qualifications, I'm sure he would want a chapter from you. Prabhupāda, you know that book Rūpānuga's putting together?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He has said somewhere, I don't particularly know, "The Indian priests(?) think like that."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his Gītā, in the verse that describes how to meditate on the formless, he states that although it says in the Bhagavad-gītā that it is very difficult to understand the formless aspect, he says this was true five thousand years ago but now it is no longer true.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have read in his Gītā.
Guest: Five thousand years ago it must have been true but now...
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is the verse, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktā-sakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). So in explaining that śloka he said, "It was painful five thousand years ago, but it is not now painful. It has become easy." That means the version of Gītā can be changed after five thousand years. Then what is the importance of speaking by Kṛṣṇa if it is changeable like material things? then what is the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is it changeable?
Prabhupāda: Ecstasy.
Yogi Bhajan: I said, "Why not?" I asked the question. I said, "Why not? What is wrong with them? What do you feel?" "But that's not in America. You know, we don't go and dance everywhere." I said, "You go in ballroom dances and you dance all the time. You drink and you dance, and you do what you want to do. And they just, in their own life, feel that they enjoy dancing right for God and the world. You dance for your own social contact. They dance for their own divine contact. What is wrong with them? Their leader, their prophet, their spiritual guide danced to God, and they dance to God. Why you think, why you go to the church?" "We go to pray." I said, "That's their prayer. Why don't you understand the prayer aspect of it? Why you want to understand how they dress, how they like, how they dislike each other?" And the second question somebody asked me, "But do you think somebody has the right to convert our children?" I said, "But do you think somebody has not the right..."
Prabhupāda: I never asked them to be converted.
Prabhupāda: Where is your address in Los Angeles?
Yogi Bhajan: Yeah. They all come Sunday. They come to our Guru Dvara on every Sunday. People participate. We have our magazine, and this was our anniversary renaisance, which we issued... Rather, I was planning if some of your ācārya can come and I can give them a program for Kṛṣṇa consciousness development and authoritative human aspects of Gītā, which I teach in UCLA, they can participate and start courses in that. Because everybody is special in certain areas, and I thought that was a better idea. However...
Prabhupāda: These pictures of...?
Yogi Bhajan: This is Golden Temple, Amritsar.
Prabhupāda: Amritsar.
Prabhupāda: If the person is the same, so difference of name does not change the circumstances.
Dr. Wolfe: But there are many aspects of God, of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.
Prabhupāda: Why human being? Even the trees, plants, everyone. We are part and parcel of God.
Dr. Pore: And how is Kṛṣṇa different from us?
Prabhupāda: He is not different. Because we cannot realize Him we are thinking He is different from us. That is māyā. Just like father and son. They are not different, but the son, out of his foolishness, he is thinking father is different from him.
Dr. Judah: Wouldn't you say, though, that, in the case of us, that we are, as it were, jīva-śaktiḥ, we are the marginal energy, and so we do have, as it were, that aspect of Kṛṣṇa, but we also have in this world then the māyā-śaktiḥ. We are the combination, as it were, here in the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā find out this verse,
Prabhupāda: This is not good. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems to me that one of the important aspects of bhakti-yoga is to depend upon Kṛṣṇa for one's maintenance.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So whatever is offered to the Deity, one should accept.
Prabhupāda: The prasādam is not suitable?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well it is standard prasādam. Capatis, rice, dahl, subji, fruits.
Prabhupāda: So why they do not like?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they are reading these books...
Prabhupāda: And becoming influenced.
Lt. Mozee: If I understand you then correctly, sir, you would say that the emphasis should be returned to the religious aspects.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Without religious aspect what is the difference between dog and man? Man can be turned to be a religious man, the dog cannot be. That is the difference between dog and man. So if you keep the human society to the status of dogs and cats, how you can expect peaceful society? If you bring one dozen of dogs and if you want to keep them peacefully, is it possible? So if we keep human society as dogs, then how you can expect peacefulness?
Lt. Mozee: Some of my questions might sound disrespectful. If they do it is only because I do not understand completely your religious beliefs, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not my religious belief. I am just giving you general description of religious life and animal life. The animal cannot be taken to the churches and teach something about God. It is not possible. But a human being can be. So if the human being is refused this facility, then you keep them as cats and dogs. And you cannot expect any peaceful condition of life in the society of cats and dogs. So therefore it is the duty of the authority, of the government, of the elderly person, father, guardian, to teach the subordinate how to become God conscious. Otherwise, there will be trouble because there is no difference between dogs and man in every respect. The dog eats, we eat. The dog sleeps, we sleep. The dog have sex, we have sex. The dog also tries to defend itself, we also try to defend ourself. These are common factors. The only difference is the dog cannot be instructed about his relation with God, but man can be instructed.
Prabhupāda: Every senses. If you want to see something, you must be trained up how to see. Like a scientist is seeing something through the microscope, and you want to see with naked eyes. How it is possible to see? You must adopt the process to see. Then you can see everything.
Woman: I have just one more question, and that is also from an outsider's point of view. It appears to me that one of the most difficult aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for someone to accept who's been brought up outside of that point of view is the Deities and the idea that they represent Kṛṣṇa. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, because you are not trained up to see Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa kindly appears before you as you can see. You can see wood, stone. You cannot see what is spirit. Even you don't see yourself. You are thinking, "I am this body." But you are spirit soul. You are seeing your father and mother daily, and when the father or mother dies, you cry. Why you are crying? "Now my father has gone." Where is your father gone? He is lying here. Why do you say he is gone? What is that thing which is gone? Why you say, "My father is gone," although lying on the bed? You have seen daily your father. Now you say, "My father is gone." So... But he is lying on the bed. So who has gone? What is your answer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam:
Human life is meant for understanding the tattva. Then the question will be what is that tattva or ultimate truth? And that is described. Tattva is realized in three phases: Brahman, impersonal Brahman; Paramātmā, localized Paramātmā; and Bhagavān.
Prof. Hopkins: So it's the mistake... The mistake of the impersonalist then is to identify the complete reality with Brahman, which is only one aspect of the complete reality.
Prabhupāda: Just like finger. Finger is one of the item of the whole body. You can't say, "Yes, the finger is my body," because the finger is not the whole body. Similarly, everything is part and parcel of the whole but that does not mean that everything is whole.
Prabhupāda: That is their disease.
Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When you speak of taking care of your responsibilities for Kṛṣṇa, doesn't that also have a material aspect to it? Just like a parent must bring up the child, must take care of the child, train it to read, and to write, and so on...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means we are taking care of the children—why? Just to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, not to become cats and dogs. This is our responsibility. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that "Here is a child. He may be saved to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious." Therefore we are taking so much care in the Dallas. We are not irresponsible. But our responsibility is there, that "Make him Kṛṣṇa conscious."
Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.
Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.
Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. He remains in ignorance. (aside:) (Hindi) Jaya.
Prof. Olivier: Thank you very much. Might I apropos of that just say here that we have here a department, Science of Religion. Then we have a department of Christian Theology. We have now started a department of Islamic Studies, which will concentrate more on the theological aspects as we go along. And then, if we can find the right guru, we can start a gurukula, a department of Hindu Studies or Hinduism. And Mr. Chotari and various other members of the local community here are assisting us to find the right spiritual leader. As far as Hindu studies are concerned, we give a course here in Sanskrit at the university.
Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?
Prof. Olivier: I got a copy of the Bhagavad-gītā at the last occassion when your representatives were here, which I thought was a very well brought out and a very well documented edition.
Yadubara: They may say that that is only one aspect.
Prabhupāda: Every aspect you say, rascal. You take water, take fire. Where is life? Just like heat, heat in the body. Heat is fire. So everything you take which constitutes this body, analyze separately and find out life, where is life.
Yadubara: But they may say that a combination produces.
Prabhupāda: Combine it. Everything is there. You combine and produce life. Combination produces? Then you combine. Why don't you combine and produce life? Simply speak like rascals. Take. The water is there, the air is there, the fire is there—you combine together. Now you are so much advanced in scientific knowledge. Combine them and produce life. What is their answer?
Yadubara: They'll say that they can't do it.
Prabhupāda: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ, lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). If these big men of the world, they take it, "Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is genuine," then naturally it will be followed by the others. So here is a good opportunity to contact big men of the world. So utilize it properly. You.... Both of you are intelligent. Very cautiously deal with them. They will understand that "Oh, these people are very honest men of character and high knowledge and God conscious." That will make our movement success.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His father has been giving us.... Of course, it was.... We have been approaching him through the aspect of doing business in China. His father is encouraging us in the sense that he is seeing Dhṛṣṭadyumna.... Like whenever we visit him, we come in our suits, and his father is seeing that.... He is encouraging him also because he's taking some, what he calls a very, what would you say, a responsible position, attempting to do some business. So he's been giving us letters on his company's letterhead. Just like this is a letter to the director of the Department of Commerce of the United States. We've seen a number of people. We've been visiting different directors. First thing we did when we went back is after meeting him, we got many books on China. Some of the examples are, just like this.... We read about twenty-five books. We've studied up very thoroughly and researched everything about China. Here is a book, The Religious Policy and Practice in Communist China. It describes everything about religion there. So we thoroughly read this book. Then there's other books, books on education, we read books on history...
Prabhupāda: Chinese people, they are trying to raise their standard of civilization. Do they?
Kern: How about people who aren't first-class intelligence, people, as you mentioned, the foolish. What message...?
Prabhupāda: No, they should be trained up. The foolish man.... Just like a foolish child can be trained up to be very nicely educated to pass M.A. examination. Child is..., all children are foolish. That is accepted. But by training him, we can make him the first-class intelligent man.
Scheverman: Training and discipline is a very important aspect of your asceticism.
Prabhupāda: But that training is wanted at the present moment.
Scheverman: Yes, I think that, I would agree that the willingness of modern...
Prabhupāda: There's no training to qualify a person to become first class. There is no training.
Kern: I'm thinking of the retarded, the Mongoloid, the encephalitis, those who are born with...
Prabhupāda: Nobody's born intelligent; that is not possible.
Hari-śauri: From the Shivananda Yoga Vedanta Center. (laughs) He's going to lecture on the five basic aspects of yoga. Admission three dollars. (break)
Viśvakarmā: We're getting quite a few calls. Within the last two months four Indian people have come to me requesting that they can get married in the temple. I told them not...
Prabhupāda: No, we are not marriage company. We get married our students if there is necessity, but we don't.... Marriage means they will arrange their marriage in our temple.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So all different aspects of material knowledge...
Prabhupāda: You have to learn from a superior person.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now there is distinction between two types of knowledge. If knowledge means understanding...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Any knowledge, if you want to get it, you must receive it from a superior person. That is the law. That I already explained. If you want to steal, if you want to become a thief, you have to learn it from an expert thief. So any knowledge. Knowledge means you have to learn it from a superior person. And what to speak of the knowledge of God. That is the ultimate knowledge. Yesterday we were speaking that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja learned how to make samosas. Now that knowledge is distributed. So every knowledge, you have to learn it from an expert. That is called guru. Guru means expert. Heavy. Who's knowledge is heavier than your scanty knowledge. You have to learn knowledge. Guru means heavy. Therefore Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You must. Abhigacchet, this word is used when the sense is "must." Not optional, that I may go or I may not go. No, you must. This is Vedic injunction.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In the varṇāśrama institution the sannyāsī, or the person in the renounced order of life, is considered to be the head or the spiritual master of all the social statuses and orders. A brāhmaṇa is considered to be the spiritual master of the three other sections of society, namely the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. But a sannyāsī, who is on the top of the institution, is considered to be the spiritual master of the brāhmaṇas also. For a sannyāsī the first qualification should be fearlessness. Because a sannyāsī has to be alone without any support or guarantee of support, he has simply to depend on the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he thinks 'After leaving my connections, who will protect me?' he should not accept the renounced order of life. One must be fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His localized aspect as Paramātmā, is always within, and He is seeing everything, and that He always knows what one intends to do. One must have this firm conviction that Kṛṣṇa as Paramātmā will take care of a soul surrendered unto Him. 'I shall never be alone,' one should think..."
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Don't divert your attention.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the final knowledge. But if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then where is your knowledge? Knowledge, half-way knowledge is not knowledge. Complete knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That you do, but the position is like this. Our conclusion is that whatever they are saying, that is imperfect. That is not possible. And that is a fact. Therefore they change, after fifty years, they change. Because it's speculation. Therefore we say totally they are wrong, and they will take totally "From mythology," like that, this is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now one aspect in that, now in Christian group also, some are trying to preach that these things are created by God, but they have a problem there.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The difficulty in this Christian aspect is that they claim that it was created about five thousand years ago. That is the reason why we want to bring up this...
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (laughter)
Guest: Also this, another aspect was answered, the Vedic literature, all that we have today, is not a complete literature. We assume that perhaps some part of the literature has never been copied and was probably lost. So if His name doesn't occur in certain portion of Vedas, it doesn't mean that the name didn't occur in the Vedas. This is something that people have...
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa's name is very confidential. In the Atharva Veda, there is name, there is.... Jīva Gosvāmī has quoted from Atharva Veda. There is Kṛṣṇa's name. And this, the best scholar of Vedas, (indistinct) he says, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa, Śaṅkarācārya. Then other ācāryas they have supported Kṛṣṇa's teachings, just like Rāmānujācārya, and (indistinct) he has quoted Vedic quotation, every śloka. So one has to learn the real Vedas, then he'll find, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is mentioned," (Sanskrit). Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's name. But one must be actually scholar in Vedas, then he'll find, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the beginning, in the middle, and at the end."
Prabhupāda: You are not Christian? Whatever you may be...
Guest (4): Would it be possible to say—this is my question-would it be possible to say that all the religions are, as it were, aspects of the personality of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, our definition of religion is that religion is the word or the law given by God. That is religion.
Guest (4): Yes, but then there are these religions. There's more than one.
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to agree on the principle. Religion means the word of God or the law given by God. That is religion.
Guest (4): But I go into a Catholic Church and I feel a different environmental personality from the environmental personality I feel when I come here. Or, and, if I'm looking for God, which I think is here, I feel God, certainly I feel it very strongly, in your person—well, that's a brutal thing to say, but I do—and that is...
Prabhupāda: That we have already explained. Because every living entity is part and parcel of God, so just like the particle of gold, the gold is there. There is no doubt about it.
Prabhupāda: This false ego develops.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still in this verse on 7.26, verse 14, it says there are four internal subtle senses. Now these four senses are mind, intelligence, ego and the contaminated consciousness.
Rūpānuga:
"The internal subtle senses are experienced as having four aspects in the shape of mind, intelligence, ego and contaminated consciousness. Distinctions between them can be made only by different functions, since they represent different characteristics." Purport: "The four internal senses or subtle senses described herein are defined by different characteristics. When pure consciousness is polluted by material contamination, and identification with the body becomes predominant, this is called false ego. Consciousness is the function of the soul, and therefore behind consciousness there is soul. When consciousness is polluted by material contamination, this is called ahaṅkāra."
Prabhupāda: Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. The same thing.
Guest: Still, the argument was an aspect of the occasion, and it came out of the wisdom that he's here.
Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable, do not try to understand by argument. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. So our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to take knowledge from the authority. Unless we take knowledge from the authority, however we may go on arguing, we cannot come to the conclusion. The modern scientists, philosophers, they are arguing, but they do not come to the conclusion. If you want to take conclusion... Just like two lawyers are arguing in the court, but the conclusion is given by the authority, the judge. That one has to accept. So we take authority, the Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa. He is accepted authority by all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in the śāstra also, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala, Asita. So our authority is confirmed.
Prabhupāda: Research means that it is not known; you are trying to find out. But our, Kṛṣṇa's position is not. It is already known.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And another aspect of the Institute at the beginning phase is that Your Divine Grace also instructed a few days ago that we also get some, try to give some lectures to colleges. We can present as members from the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the higher learning section of ISKCON. That can also be part of the... So we can go to colleges and universities. We don't have to go every month or so, but maybe once a month or twice a month.
Prabhupāda: Whenever there is opportunity.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but we can represent from...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Bhaktivedanta Institute. If we do that, then people will also respect, those in the academic circle, that we are representing ISKCON from academic aspect. We have our title that "From Bhaktivedanta Institute, such and such person is going to speak on such and such topic."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. That is the general statement, mūḍha.
Cyavana: They see our movement as being material.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no other conception than material.
Cyavana: They don't see the spiritual aspect at all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no other conception. They can't recognize.
Prabhupāda: They have no other conception. Therefore they misunderstand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in India nowadays they are confused also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Caitanya-bhāgavata there is a word, vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhāya: "The activities of a Vaiṣṇava, even the most intelligent person of this world cannot understand." Vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhāya.
Rāmeśvara: If it is... Something that is judged by, say, the US government as criminal, would be still do it if it was for Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, we do not do anything which is harmful to the society. We do not do anything, not only to the human society. To the animal society, to the tree society, to the aquatic society, we do not do anything. We do not support the slaughterhouse, killing the animals. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to see every living entity on the same level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are not cruel to anyone. Either he's a man or animal or tree or bird.
Interviewer: Does that take on a positive aspect as well so that by not only do I not kill animals and I don't kill men, do I, am I obliged under your system, am I obliged to actively help...
Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose if you are coming to kill me, then I must take advantage of killing you first.
Interviewer: I understand that, and obliged to go beyond.
Bali-mardana: Are you also obliged to help animals, to help other human beings.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are maintaining animals, giving them food, giving them security of life in all our farms the animals are very free.
Prabhupāda: We have got, not only in west outside India, in India, we have got standing order from all universities, libraries, and many other places. Complete standing order value is 40,000 rupees.
Mr. Saxena: This is one aspect, of course, appreciable, but another aspect is that of teaching. That should be...
Prabhupāda: Teaching is going on.
Mr. Saxena: I mean for teaching too. As far as books...
Prabhupāda: Seven centers, hundred centers.
Mr. Saxena: Yes, there should be centers too, could give right interpretation to all these things. Because interpretation means, everybody is not in contact with Sanskrit.
Jagadīśa: But in the books Śrīla Prabhupāda has given elaborate purports.
Prabhupāda: Word to word meaning. You have seen our books?
Mr. Saxena: I have not seen this.
Prabhupāda: Similarly to go to the Absolute Truth, you begin with impersonal Brahman. Just as sunshine is impersonal, but everyone can see the sunshine is coming from the sun surface. Everyone knows that. Therefore the sunshine is not so important as the sunglobe. Similarly brahma-tattva-nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahma is there, but more important than is the localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), God is all-pervading. The sunshine is all-pervading, and as Paramātmā He is also all-pervading. But if you can enter into the sunglobe, you will meet with the sun god. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So there is sun-god. Sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one. But different stages of understanding. Similarly, Brahman understanding, Paramātmā understanding, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead understanding.
Prabhupāda: They want to be cheated but we cannot cheat. For getting some customer you have to flatter them—that is not possible. And while explaining the ślokas, you have to stress on this point, that this is bona fide; all others are cheating. That requires on your preaching power.
Hari-śauri: Actually I was reading through your purports in this chapter the other day, and everything, every aspect, is completely explained in the purports. If one carefully reads this chapter then there's no problem. You just preach whatever is there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What we could do is... I mean you may not like this... Publish a small booklet just based on the Sixth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Typeset is Delhi good, but offset-Bombay.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So what I've told them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is they can get the composing done in Bengal, Calcutta, then send it to me, like I get the Hindi composing done in Vṛndāvana and mail it to Bombay for printing. So it is cheaper and good quality, plus we have the whole department set up. One boy, Pippalai, he just takes care of technical aspects. And we have a shipping department all set up now. Two boys work just on the shipping.
Prabhupāda: So supply department keep in one place.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And we have very good...
Prabhupāda: In other places it is...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't have the men, and we have good...
Prabhupāda: No. They supply all supplies. The orders should be supplied from one place.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're getting up to two months' credit on printing books. Everything is nicely set up.
Prabhupāda: But keep your credit.
Rāmeśvara: "But history documents that Kṛṣṇa came to earth as a man."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So do you mean to say God cannot come as man? And Jehovah came as God?
Rāmeśvara: "But in the Bible God revealed a certain aspect of Himself, and the personality of Kṛṣṇa seems to be very different from this."
Prabhupāda: In which way different?
Rāmeśvara: "Because He had all these affairs with the gopīs. He was very different."
Prabhupāda: God will be just like...
Rāmeśvara: "And He was a king with sixteen thousand wives. That seems to be very different from the God that is described in the Bible."
Prabhupāda: So if God... What is described in the Bible, God symptom, that he has no power to enjoy sixteen thousand wives? He's limited?
Rāmeśvara: No. He's unlimited.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Guest (2): We have taken that aspect, that He's a superpower.
Guest (1): When he is thinking He's man, He's not the man. He's the superman.
Guest (2): Also we have seen that...
Guest (1): And all the universes inside revolving.
Guest (2): That is our message. Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary. Superpower.
Prabhupāda: He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Guest (2): He's the supreme power.
Guest (1): We have produced this. Also we have produced things last ten years. Last, even Orissa, this līlā, Śrī Kṛṣṇa līlā, is very famous from the very ancient years.
Guest (2): Not from the sex. That aspect... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...fourth, Thirty-fifth Chapter, when Parīkṣit Mahārāja was inquiring from Śukadeva Gosvāmī that Kṛṣṇa came to establish religious principles...
Guest (2): One aspect. One aspect we have taken, that supreme, the message, essence...
Prabhupāda: No, no... It is... Kṛṣṇa-līlā is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, why don't you begin from the first chapter of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Just show how Kṛṣṇa is supreme, how everything is coming, coming from Him. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāt (SB 1.1.1). These things explain by picture. That will be real education. Why you jump over on the Tenth Canto immediately? That is my point.
Guest (1): No, we understand. We are depicting the...
Prabhupāda: Begin.
Indian man: ...aspect, supreme superman.
Prabhupāda: Just like one learns from ABCD, not jumping over M.A. class. That is my point. Teach people from the ABCD. So this is the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). What Kṛṣṇa? He is the original. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Show that by film, how He is sarvasya prabhavo. That will be...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in Washington with Rūpānuga Prabhu and the other scientists in our group for the Institute. So I have some papers to be signed by Your Divine Grace. So you'll read in the morning? Tomorrow?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have started one institute, Bhaktivedanta Institute?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And I want to show several aspects of our journal, Sa-vijñānam. We have almost completed the first volume.
Prabhupāda: They are publishing one paper, Sa-vijñānam. How do you like this name? Sa-vijñānam. This is picked up from Bhagavad-gītā. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ. Sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). Sa-vijñānam means according to science. So did you see...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have some designs about the covers of the first issue. We wanted to show to Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think I have here.
Prabhupāda: We are challenging scientists that "Life cannot be produced by chemicals only. Life comes from life." They're all big, big chemists. There is another Ph.D. Another M.A.C., M.A.C., this Oriya, Faree(?). He can also join.
Gargamuni: But he is not eating.
Prabhupāda: No, that the other day we saw, the lions. There was quarrel, baby lions—not baby, very big—but there is no attack. There is no attack. The feelings of affection is there in the animal, ferocious animal. So what is the scientists' reply?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they are fascinated with this concept, but they cannot explain. They are failing those aspects.
Prabhupāda: So you are attacking them like this. Choke. (laughter) That is good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's Darwin again. The Darwin... His own words. We are quoting his words, and we're going to use it as illustrations in the book as well as in the journal.
Prabhupāda: "I remember well the time when the thought of the eye made..." What is that? "...eye(?) made me cold, when the eye(?) made me cold all over, but I have got over this stage of the complaint, and now a small trifling, particulars of structure, often make me very uncomfortable. The sight of a feather in a peacock's tail, whenever I (sic?) crease at the neck..."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Make me sick."
Prabhupāda: "Make me sick."
Prabhupāda: Cheaters. Here a scientist said that. That is more valuable.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's another aspect they call logical positivism...
Prabhupāda: So you know all these things. Dedicate your life to turn over all these rascals. You can do that. You are in a position. And present this life is from life to the..., they have Nobel Prize. Yes. You challenge. Will it not be a great challenge?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is not the meaning. The meaning is: "Everyone is searching after Me, but they, unless they come to Me, they will search one after another position." What is the purport?
Bhavānanda: "Everyone is searching for Kṛṣṇa in different aspects of His manifestations. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything including the particles of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Consequently Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have him. In the transcendental..."
Prabhupāda: Brahman... Brahman is also Kṛṣṇa, and Paramātmā is also Kṛṣṇa. So if one is attached to Brahman, he's also worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning.
Satsvarūpa: Or even a demigod.
Prabhupāda: Demigod. Everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. But he's searching after real Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Satsvarūpa: Resolved: A committee be formed of Saurabha, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, Rāmeśvara, Ātreya Ṛṣi, Jayapatākā, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, and Gurukṛpā to research and give a report on all aspects of the Māyāpur projected construction, including its material feasibility, cash flow requirements. They will report their research to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: One very big paṇḍita is coming. He'll help us about the Sanskrit language, how to form this...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Planetarium.
Prabhupāda: ...planetarium.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One big paṇḍita has been contacted, and he's very surrendered to Prabhupāda. He wants to help Prabhupāda and our movement to understand the meaning of the śāstras in regard to the layout of the universe, so that the planetary systems can be done in our planetarium.
Prabhupāda: This planetary system is rotating from east to west, and it is hanging like the chandelier, taking shelter of the polestar. That we can see every night. Now where is the situation, which planet, where is sun, where is moon—so that he has to assert.
Dr. Sharma: Yes, I did. The commentations of Professor Trieste(?) is very interesting. But I liked one particular aspect of it. But the West has been almost ridiculing the evils of praising (indistinct) animal cult(?). For example it is ordinary or else it is extraordinary. There is a lot of difference in the (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They do not know the value of the animals.
Dr. Sharma: Yes. They do not know. The real principle behind the praying to a tree or praying to stones or praying to idol worship, it signifies how grateful we are to the nature that is going around in praise of the Lord. Even to go (indistinct) the tree, the tree which happens to give the leaf, the shelter, the fruits, the roots, the bark of the tree—it has got so bulk of the nature created by God. And we are grateful to these things, and it shows how grateful we are to things, it shows a lot of gratitude we have. But that aspect of it is not being appreciated.
Prabhupāda: They have not been educated. Therefore, actually speaking, there is no real knowledge outside India. Mūḍha.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And men like Dr. Sharma can help us a lot.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is medical doctor, medical field. He can write some articles on especially these problems in biochemistry and the medicinal aspects. One can do a lot.
Prabhupāda: You have seen his small booklet?
Dr. Sharma: I read it.
Prabhupāda: Scientific Basis of...
Dr. Sharma: Yes. It's very interesting. I liked it.
Prabhupāda: So if you translate some of these small books, we can publish.
Dr. Sharma: Knowledgewise, I am a big man. I am myself that mūḍha still. But still I've made up my mind. I'll do my most.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good qualification, to remain humble and try to do something.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Hoax. First hoax was little successful. Now they say it will not be very successful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One aspect in science that they're worried more nowadays is called biomedical ethics. That means they are worrying about so-called this genetic engineering. They say by this engineering they can develop some small insects or microbes that will be great harmful. It will be very harmful to the society. So these big, big schools like M.I.T. and Harvard, they are... Some of the leading scientists in this field, they're very much concerned about this new development. (end)
Prabhupāda: Three? Three hundred million?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said... He has thirty million dollars.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think that will be very attractive, and it will open up wide cultural aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And we will also have our institute in Washington, D.C...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is money, there is intelligence and... That's all. I can give you one... (indistinct) You have taken your lunch now?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we'll take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You look better, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Acchā? (break) ...I want.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither would simply just begging some rice and dāl to feed ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Now Kṛṣṇa is (indistinct) (break) Do you think that the..., if the scientists attend meeting, they are interested? Or they feeling dry?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think they are very interested, very much.
Prabhupāda: Great duty, great respons...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I told the same thing to this Professor Kundu, that "You know all these things, but you just remain silent. You never speak out. You only accept that whatever quantum theory is coming from that West, that is all knowledge, scientific knowledge. What about this aspect?"
Prabhupāda: Sir Jagadish was influenced.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That is why we want to have a very strong discussion in Bose Institute.
Prabhupāda: He wanted to give to the Western world that there is life in plants, the same Vedic knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you mention in one of your books that he has proved that the plants also have feelings.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is his contribution. He is the first man.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The reaction from that Dr. Kundu... As soon as I said Bhaktivedanta, he immediately realized that this is the personal aspect or, they would say, the personalism or Vaiṣṇava philosophy. So it is also a good fact on those who know some meaning about this. So we can make it...
Prabhupāda: Unless there is personal conception, there is no question of bhakti. (break) Bhakti means the way to understand the person. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Mām means person, aham, mām. Vague idea, Brahman; distributed idea, Paramātmā; and the personal idea can be applied here. It is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It is not impersonal, not scattered. Particular person, Kṛṣṇa. When Yaśodā-mā was allowing her child to suck her breast, the child was.... And Yasoda mother was enjoying the beautiful face, patting. But all of a sudden she saw within the mouth the whole universe. Immediately she became disturbed: "Another danger is coming." She's not concerned with Kṛṣṇa's expansive, gorgeous.... She's only concern is to Kṛṣṇa, what.... She became disturbed: "What is this nonsense? Again something is coming, danger? Let me remember Nārāyaṇa. He'll save my child from all..." The personal conception is so strong that he (she) disliked to see gorgeous opulence of his (her)...
Prabhupāda: Others. But they felt an ecstasy. So continue this ideal, and they will be very innocent and transcendental. It has nothing to do with material contact. Material contamination cannot touch it. Your country, very vast and big. Some of them have become... So farm there.(?) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But during Ratha-yātrā, everyone will be shown. Such a nice festival. Everyone will be forced to give. That is beginning. (break) Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. She's interested in every single aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Special feature of our temple, you'll see, younger generation, boys and girls from respectable families, they are coming. Did you mark this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I did.
Prabhupāda: Nobody. All these sannyāsīs, they leave. They do not give. They cannot give. They have no knowledge. Here the blind man, kānā, they keep them in darkness by some hobby and beggar, this, that, that... Actually they cannot do anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just appreciating how in every way you have provided for your disciples, in every aspect. You've created a movement where we have beautiful temples. You've given us this wonderful philosophy in books. In every way you've provided. You've given us these places, Vṛndāvana temple and Māyāpur temple. It's actually a fact that we can... You know, it's like a very loving father who provides everything for his children. I mean, I was just comparing that to this boy who had nothing. His guru expired, and he had nothing. He was bereft. But we'll always be very much provided for and cared for.
Prabhupāda: So with that feeling I want to produce them also, my followers. Everyone should be like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a rain cloud pours water everywhere. Did you speak with Akṣayānanda Swami last night or something? No. Well...
Prabhupāda: No, no... They were... There will be no disturbance from his side.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.
Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next, then the next is: "Probe Urged Into Krishna Cultists. Chief Minister Jyoti Basu has urged the Central Government to investigate how some of the foreign Vaiṣṇavas of Māyāpur temple of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness who clashed with the villagers last weekend could return to India after extradition from the country." And he's against us. Naturally, he's a big Communist. "In his report on the incident to Home Minister Charan Singh, Mr. Basu has drawn the Center's attention to reports that these foreigners came back to India by obtaining new passports and visas. This aspect, he felt, should be inquired into." He's against us. "The US Consulate visited the āśrama and met some of the American Vaiṣṇavas. The Consulate has not lodged any complaint with the government about the Friday incident."
Prabhupāda: I think he has gone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This whole thing is planned by the Communists. Will the government understand that? The Central Government?
Prabhupāda: They surely understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Stories and fables will not convince them.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to briefly outline tomorrow the comparative presentation of two aspects of modern science versus the Bhagavad-gītā, the varying concepts of life.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We'll outline, saying that modern science thinks that we are children of chance and chemical reactions. But the Gītā says we are children of Kṛṣṇa. We are coming from the supremely conscious person.
Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
| Page Title: | Aspect (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Jul, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=89, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 89 |