Prabhupāda: In that house, Caitanya, Lord Caitanya was lying unconscious in ecstasy, the same unconsciousness which He got from the temple. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was trying to treat Him with some water so that He may come to consciousness. Now when His other friends, Nityānanda, Gadādhara and others arrived there, they told, "Oh, Lord Caitanya, He becomes unconscious while chanting. So He cannot be revived to His consciousness by any other means. We have to chant." So in the Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's house that chanting and dancing began with all the members, and gradually Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to consciousness. Then there was introduction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu through Gopīnātha Ācārya and Gadādhara. And Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya told that "You become my guest, you, all of you." And he gave them places. Then... Caitanya Mahāprabhu was only twenty-four years old, and Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he was old man, about sixty years old. So by acquaintance it was disclosed that Sārvabhauma's father and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grandfather were class friends. So Jagannātha Miśra in that sense... Jagannātha Miśra means Caitanya's father, was a relative, brother-in-law of Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. So he took Him affectionately and told Him, "My dear boy, You have taken sannyāsa at a very early age. So You should be very careful to study Vedānta-sūtra from me. Otherwise it will be very much difficult for You, young man." So He agreed, "Yes, you are just like My father. So you will kindly give Me instruction on Vedānta-sūtra." So there was discussion of the Vedānta-sūtra between Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That discussion is shortly mentioned in the introduction of my Srimad-Bhāgavatam. You will see.
Arrive (Conversations 1967 - 1976)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, the fourth scene, the teachings with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, that is also in there.
Hayagrīva: Who is this?
Prabhupāda: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was at Benares. He was a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Śaṅkara sampradāya. So he used to... This scene should be given that at Benares He was also walking all over the streets and roads, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa" and thousands and thousands men were following Him. This news arrived to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī who was the chief sannyāsī there and some of the devotees told, "Oh, a very nice sannyāsī has come to Benares. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī deprecated, "Oh! This is a nonsense! Why a sannyāsī should chant and dance? He should concentrate his mind in studying Vedānta. He is a fool." In this way Caitanya Mahāprabhu was criticized. So one Maharastrian brāhmaṇa, he was devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "This incident gave us much pain, sir. If You kindly meet this sannyāsī and talk with him about Vedānta-sūtra, that would be a nice thing." In the meantime one brāhmaṇa came and invited Lord Caitanya that "I have invited all the sannyāsīns of Benares, but I know You do not meet these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, but still I have come to invite You. You kindly accept my invitation." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw this opportunity of meeting Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He accepted his invitation, and there was a meeting, and there was discussion of Vedānta-sūtra with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, and He converted him to be a Vaisnava. That is another incident.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That wrapping... It is not exactly wrapped. It is a bag for our beads. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. So the beads are supposed to be sacred and therefore we keep it in a bag so that it may not touch the dust or any other impurities. So it is not wrapping, it is covering of the sacred beads.
Interviewer: Now I just want to read one section here. I think you'll be able to... "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness began when Swami Bhaktivedanta arrived from India with $2 on his person, a metal suitcase full of ancient-looking books and a cotton cloth robe, colored yellow, as a sign of the renounced order of life. In India, men of his order are completely dedicated to propagating the spiritual life of a mendicant wanderer. He had wandered across the sea upon the order issued to him by his guru who told him he should prepare to go to America to teach the principles taught in the Bhagavad-gītā and to translate the sixty volumes of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam into English." Now, are you a guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language.
Interviewer: Guru means teacher.
Prabhupāda: Guru means not exactly teacher. Guru, the word, means heavy. Heavy. H-e-a-v-y, heavy.
Interviewer: Is guru and swami the same thing?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Caller: That's all I wanted to know. Thank you.
Interviewer: The callers know more about the subject today evidently than I do. Now, your guru told you to be a wanderer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A sannyāsī means itinerant teacher. He will wander and teach from door to door.
Interviewer: When was it that you arrived from India with $2?
Prabhupāda: It was in September, 1965.
Interviewer: Several years ago.
Prabhupāda: About three years before.
Interviewer: Now, you met a gentleman by the name of Harvey Cohen?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: And how has he helped you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning he helped me. Because I rented one room. That was $72 per month. So...
Interviewer: Was this in New York?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When you go there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we go to Berlin.
Prabhupāda: (pause) Hm. Very good. So if we go, there will be good reception in Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor. Eva. Certainly, it is simply laboring. What is called? Labor of love? What is called?
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Institution. We want some life members. Otherwise how we can conduct this institution? (indistinct) Through telegram? Or reply?
Haṁsadūta: I think it was returned.
Prabhupāda: Who sent?
Haṁsadūta: Gita Bhavan Sect.(?), Gita Bhavan Marg, Indore. "Please reply definite arrival time, Surat. Very anxious. Janwal, care of (indistinct)." That's how he replied.
Prabhupāda: So there we are already engaged. Cannot go Surat immediately. Let us follow that.
Haṁsadūta: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is his version. Version. There is no cost. Simply (indistinct).
Haṁsadūta: So what is the program there?
Prabhupāda: Never mind. "Due to heavy engagement, cannot go Surat immediately. Letter follows."
Devotee (2): Motorcycle...(indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Are you sure, that motorcycle? Can? To go and come back here for attending meeting here? By train? How far it is?
Prabhupāda: Same plane. And you come, all, by train.
Haṁsadūta: Will we open a bank account here? Will we open an account in Indore?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: This morning with Mr. Holi.
Yamunā: So when we find out your arrival time, Gurudāsa, we can inform Gurudāsa when you'll be arriving?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And then the next day you come, all, by train. Thursday we can wa...? What is that Thursday?
Haṁsadūta: Thursday
Prabhupāda: Oh, industrial house. Industrial house.
Guest (2): It's called "Industry House."
Prabhupāda: Industry, that's all. Industry House. Industry House Dhruva's full name, you know?
Devotee (3): R.C.
Prabhupāda: R.C. Dhruva, Secretary to Mr. R.D. Birla, Industry House, Church Reclamation...
Haṁsadūta: Bombay, West.
Prabhupāda: Bombay.
Yamunā: Is Parliament in session again?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless you take to this movement, you cannot be happy. That's a fact. Therefore we invite everyone to study, to understand this great movement.
Woman Interviewer: What worries me slightly is that since the arrival in Britain some while ago of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, a lot of... He was the first guru that most people ever heard of, and since then there have been a lot of people and a lot of gurus that have suddenly appeared out of nowhere. And one gets the feeling that sometimes they're not all as genuine as they ought to be, and I wondered whether you feel that it's right that you could perhaps issue a warning to people who are seeking some new spiritual life that they should take care to make sure they have a genuine guru to teach them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman Interviewer: Do you feel there's a danger?
Prabhupāda: Of course, to search out guru is very nice. But if you want a cheap guru or if you want to be cheated, then there will be many cheater gurus. But if you are sincere, then you'll have sincere guru. People want to be cheated because they want everything very cheap. But just like we are asking people no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. So people think it is very difficult, it is botheration. And if somebody says, "No, you do. Whatever nonsense you like do. You simply take my mantra," they will like it. So the thing is that they want to be cheated; therefore cheaters come. They don't want to undergo some austerity. Human life is meant for austerity. But they are not prepared to undergo austerity. Suppose some cheaters come. They say, "Oh, no austerity. Whatever you like you do. You simply pay me and I'll give you some particular mantra, and you become God within six months." (Laughter) And that is going on. So you want to be, if people want to be cheated like that, the cheaters will come.
Prabhupāda:
- (bhakti-yogena manasi)
- samyak praṇihite 'male
- apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ
- māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam
- (SB 1.7.4)
The materialistic person, they have only one experience: this cosmic manifestation. Beyond this they have no other vision. Their senses are imperfect. Just like the astronomers, they have got big, big telescope, many other instruments. They want to see through the eyes how many stars are there, how the planets are moving, and whatever imperfect knowledge they receive, by that little knowledge they advertise themselves as great scientists. But they do not calculate that "We are trying to see the stars and planets with powerful binoculars. That means our eyes are imperfect." And what is the guarantee that the instruments which they're using, they are also perfect? Because that machine, that binocular, is also made by a person who is imperfect. So what is the guarantee that by seeing through binocular or microscope, the conclusion arrived, it is perfect? What is your answer? Your eyes are imperfect, that's a fact. Otherwise, why you are using binocular, microscope? Eyes are imperfect. Originally your eyes are imperfect. Now, eyes or other senses, it doesn't matter. Sense is sense. So you are manufacturing a machine, some instrument, by the same imperfect senses, then what is the guarantee that this machine, this binocular, if you see through the binocular, the knowledge is perfect? What is your answer?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "You want this property, take property. All right." He's kind, "All right, this man gave me some service, he wants this property. All right, take this property." But what he has gained?
Śyāmasundara: Nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never wanted his property. I simply desired that such a sublime message, like my poetry, that...
Śyāmasundara: First poem upon arriving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miracle done. I wanted, "Oh, there is a miracle. If I try to preach this miracle in the world." So he has given me the facility. I never wanted the Gauḍīya Maṭha buildings.
Śyāmasundara: So because you desired in a certain way, He provided that facility also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I desired that such a wonderful message, why not preach?
Devotee (3): And you got buildings also.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (3): You got buildings...
Prabhupāda: Building automatically comes. But rascal fools, they do not understand this. That is mentioned in the... In bhakti, other success follows. Just like when the queen goes, there are many maidservants catching the..., what is called?
Śyāmasundara: Train.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) You don't have any cymbals for selling?
Devotee: Not tonight.
Prabhupāda: So, you can keep some stored.
Devotee: Yes. We've been waiting for shipment. They haven't arrived.
Prabhupāda: You can give him loan, he's anxious. You can give him these small ones. You take this.
John Fahey: Thank you. (sound of karatālas) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: I'll show you how to do it. Like this. (loud playing of karatālas) One, two, three-one, two, three. (showing how to play karatālas) It is not difficult. You are musician. Just play on meter: one, two, three-one, two, three.
John Fahey: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: For everything you have to learn from a guru. (laughter) Even for how to play. (more laughing) Yes: one, two, three. (more playing of karatālas)
John Fahey: Hey, those are nice bells, I mean cymbals. Oh, boy.
Prabhupāda: So sit down together whenever you find time, one, two, three play, and Hare Kṛṣṇa chant.
John Fahey: Okay. (plays more)
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee (2): They're much taller than the Empire State Building. (break)
Devotee: It's called...
Bali-mardana: ...your flight.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bali-mardana: Luggage is arriving a little bit later, different flight.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bali-mardana: There was not time to get it on the plane.
Prabhupāda: But, uh, tickets?
Bali-mardana: He has the tickets.
Prabhupāda: I can give you that also. (japa) (end)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (6): Can I ask you a question?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee (6): That many, many devotees have, have since I have arrived here, have asked me questions about how, how to treat the children, how to, how to teach the children, and they have, you know, there are many children in other temples besides gurukula who are either are not, not of age yet, or who have not been sent yet...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is of age. That is all right. It is not that there is no age limit. Anyone who can remain, that is the best thing. But with very small children, I think nowadays after three years children can begin.
Devotee (6): After three? After three? Jaya. They, they've asked us many questions. Should..., is there any, is there any information? How should we, should we send information from gurukula to the other temples?
Prabhupāda: Who? Who asked questions?
Devotee (6): Devotees who have children, who have come to the temple. They said, one woman said that "They've..., my son, they're throwing him in cold shower. They say he has to take a cold shower, and that no one wants to have anything to do with him because he's so much trouble..."
Prabhupāda: It is taken outside, No.
Sumati Morarjee: No, inside, in the house.
Prabhupāda: Within the compound. That's right.
Sumati Morarjee: Here I have seen Ratha-yātrā, the first time in (indistinct). I had no idea. That day I arrived (laughter) . So I said, "What is all this?". There were so many people and all animal and all that, what is coming? So then I saw Ratha, I said, "This is Ratha-yātrā", near this place.
Devotee: Marble Arch?
Sumati Morarjee: No, no, no. I was passing Marble Arch, I (indistinct). I saw all the people. I said what, then I found out, I thought...
Prabhupāda: In San Francisco, we hold, very gorgeous.
Sumati Morarjee: Ah.
Prabhupāda: Three rathas.
Sumati Morarjee: I have seen those pictures.
Prabhupāda: Three rathas, and thousands of.... oh, they're very much, I mean, enthused to take prasādam and dance. So this year they asked me to come here. Therefore I have come to see the Ratha-yātrā, how they...
Prabhupāda: Collin.
Devotee (2): Ah, I saw Mr. Collin at the airport when you arrived in New York at that meeting, press meeting.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he was there?
Devotee (2): He was there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, why did he not see me?
Devotee (2): He didn't come. He was a little embarrassed, I think.
Prabhupāda: He must be embarrassed. He's a thief. (laughter) Desirous man never becomes happy. He did not pay me anything as royalty for the record.
Devotee: Hm.
Devotee (2): He's still selling it, too.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (2): He's still selling that record.
Satsvarūpa: We have our temple in Dallas. I don't know if any of you have been there. It's on Gurley Street, off East Grand, very big building there, and we have a school there for children Śrīla Prabhupāda has started, called Gurukula. It's based on Vedic philosophy that the children at a very early age is the best time for them to learn these principles so that later in life, whether they become householder life or whatever business they take to, they will know the principles, how to avoid sinful activities, knowing love of Kṛṣṇa. So we have about thirty children there now, and Śrīla Prabhupāda has come to Dallas... He's traveling all over, but he's come here just for a few days to see this school, to see how his devotees are managing the children. He's given us so much advice how to improve the school. Also while he's here, coincidentally you would say, but Kṛṣṇa is in control. So his arrival, we received Deities, large Deities of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, marble Deities, forty-eight inches. And so tomorrow Śrīla Prabhupāda is going to install these Deities in our temple. That's going to be early in the morning, at eight o'clock. But then all day long, up until the evening there will be distribution of prasādam and... Just the idea of coming out to see the Deities. Most of the devotees... There are about a hundred devotees back at the temple now and they are all working very, very quickly, hard, to get everything ready.
Śyāmasundara: Do you have another small table?
Guest (2): Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Or else we can take this one.
Satsvarūpa: So please come to the temple tomorrow, to take darśana. I know everyone works or is busy, but try to come at least in the evening and see this. As Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying, the name is not different than Kṛṣṇa. We chant on our big japa beads. The holy name is the same as Kṛṣṇa is in His form or in the picture or the same as His philosophy. And so these Deity forms, we don't consider them as marble Deities but as Kṛṣṇa Himself. People misunderstand. They think this is idol worship, that we are worshiping some idol, bowing down to idols. Same with the food, they don't understand. We offer food to the Deity. But Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "If you offer Me a little fruit or a leaf or water..."
Prabhupāda: So Śyāmasundara, you can invite all these gentlemen tomorrow.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee (1): The professor, head of the department of Sanskrit at the University of Indonesia... About 9:30, I made appointment and if we could influence her also then we will have some facility to preach in the university. (indistinct) ...Hindi (indistinct) very nicely, tomorrow morning. They want us to arrive at 7:30 in their temple and many people will come and it will be very nice. They'll bring the vyāsāsana all the way there.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee (1): Actually I think these Indian people are not very intelligent. Even we have preached to them over a year and they say, "Yes, Swamiji. Yes, Swamiji, yes we understand," but they don't. And they're offering respect but how much philosophy they can grasp, I don't think it's very much. But the younger ones, about ten, twelve, fifteen years old, they're very intelligent. There were some boys there also who used to come to our kīrtana. And I remember how they grasped the philosophy before. They could repeat it, but they didn't remain steady. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee (1): That is a problem in this Indian community. They are very, many kinds of envy. And their enviousness makes everyone... For example we had kīrtana. We were having every night but many children told me that "I would like to come but my parents won't let me come." Because they are saying gossip, rumors, things like this. This girl who we want to initiate, she would come every, every day without fail and her, even her parents would say, "Why are you going there? Everybody is talking about you." So, socially, they, maybe now they will change, but so far they are rejected.
Devotee (1): (indistinct) ...newspaper, there's an article about us in the newspaper right here, (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: What is your age now?
Guest (1): Seventy-two. I like the ship, so old man prefers cheaper trip than air, (indistinct) so I take air from Indonesia (indistinct) only and take ship to Alexandria. (indistinct) From Alexandria to Morocco I take (indistinct) bus, big bus like Union Pacific before from east side the west side America, we take big bus (indistinct) four days only I arrive at (indistinct) Morocco. And maybe I cross to Andalusia, Spain, not near Madrid, Castillian (indistinct) again take ship from (indistinct) railway from Manchester to (indistinct) So still seven years I loitering. And this only to see old friend in Edinburgh, and I see old, old man (indistinct) I am also old man, not so long time, within one year I down, I never been South America, only up to Mexico so I go to (indistinct). And stay, I contracted only one contract three years but I want to work, job, one year, highest salary there so and finish I go to Argentina from Santiago Chile I take the ship again to, Sydney, my younger brother, Sydney and go back from (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In Sydney also we have got temple.
Guest (1): (indistinct) Where?
Devotee: I can show you.
Prabhupāda: Australia's, find Australia's...
Guest (1): Australia, never. Only my younger brother....
Prabhupāda: Therefore, what is your science?
Krishna Tiwari: Fine. But what I'm saying is that when the question of soul is something which is not at the moment visible to us or anybody. There is no indication that there is soul, because if there is soul in everything, I would imagine that that will not be controllable under laboratory conditions. If soul made us, then we should not be able to make differences amongst us. If, if the soul was the prime force, and was important force, then such differences of very magnified nature as exists between one species, between the same species, for example human beings, or between the rats. They will not be under the control of the human beings. One could make rats with white eyes, same rat can be bred and made with blue eyes. Or rat can be made white to black. Now these knowledge, this knowledge which man has achieved by studying the law of nature would never have arrived if we just believed in total something which has been said.
Śyāmasundara: What..., what good are blue-eyed rats?
Krishna Tiwari: Well, that is a different point. (laughter) What good is life? What good is anything? But that, that point is out of the question.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You're not creating anything new.
Krishna Tiwari: I never said I did create anything new, but I changed those recognized things at will.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Within the laws of mutations.
Krishna Tiwari: Yes, at will, at will, made by my own, which, which God...
Śyāmasundara: Well, they were discussing something in the airport, and...
Lord Brockway: Oh, MacLynne (?) airport?
Śyāmasundara: ...Pakistan and Bangladesh and two or three other points.
Lord Brockway: Yes. Was I speaking?
Śyāmasundara: No, you spoke just before... When we arrived, you were speaking. You had addressed one question...
Lord Brockway: I was speaking; then you arrived. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And at the end of the discussion, they take a vote: those who are content and those who are not content.
Lord Brockway: That's right. But I often say that when I do not know, what we are discussing, the answers, then I vote with my party. When I do know, then I often vote against my party. Do you understand what I said?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Maybe you could tell him about that Cāṇakya Paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. I think he'll not like that.
Śyāmasundara: There was one famous politician from India five hundred years ago, or...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. About three thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: So what is that step? What is that step?
Yogeśvara: He says it's a gradual progress, that their students come, they receive initiation and then they are guided. They are given certain principles, certain practices, and then gradually, at their own rate, by their own powers, they ultimately arrive at perfection.
Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?
Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.
Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?
Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)
Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false. This one is rejected.
Prabhupāda: Why silence?
Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means...
Prabhupāda: He cannot explain. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...it is undescribable because it's something that's arrived at inside through meditation. You can't really describe it in words?
Prabhupāda: Why? You are describing so many thing in words and the ultimate goal you cannot describe.
Yogeśvara: He says that many great masters like you from the East tend to smile at their explanations, but he...
Guru-gaurāṅga: They tend to smile when this question is asked, "Who am I?" So what can I say compared to these masters?
Prabhupāda: That means his knowledge is not perfect.
Guru-gaurāṅga: His knowledge is not perfect, and like us, he is simply trying for perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So unless you have got your goal perfectly known, how you can make progress? (break)
Guru-gaurāṅga: ...their organization is the guru, and their whole organization knows the ultimate goal which they can attain.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...tolerant. Above all, he is tolerant.
Prabhupāda: Tolerant. Spiritual life. That is also spiritual life. That's all. So in their way of spiritual life, what are the process? There must be some process, definite process.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...that comes when you become initiated in the movement. They give you the process for arriving at this tolerance.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But suppose I want to enter. So you must give me some formula that "You have to do this like this." Otherwise how can I enter?
Yogeśvara: He says there are many different techniques, but ultimately they are really all the same because they lead to the same conclusion. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...those techniques? Let him say some of the techniques.
Yogeśvara: He says the first thing is that we have to awaken our internal consciousness which is ninety percent asleep.
Prabhupāda: So what is the process?
Yogeśvara: I don't care to talk about them here.
Prabhupāda: Then how can I accept it? I cannot enter into some vague thing.
Prabhupāda: So Indian caste brāhmaṇas, they are against me, against me. They come to fight with me that I am spoiling Hindu religion.
Professor: (laughs) Well, you are a brāhmaṇa yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am now sannyāsī.
Haṁsadūta: This is a statement of account from the Central Bank of India. It just arrived from London.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause, opens letter) Any other letter? No.
Haṁsadūta: That's all. No.
Prabhupāda: So just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.
Professor: You know the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad?
Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad. Yes.
Professor: Yes, I have made a translation of it into French. It's under print now at the present.
Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad? That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Professor: Yeah, that the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That's the...
Yogeśvara: You mentioned that to Professor Stahl in your correspondences.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we want to have morning class and Monday, Wednesday and Friday have evening program there, evening discourse.
Prabhupāda: Whether it is going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we just fixed up the place. The day you arrived was the first day it was painted. Until then, it was not fit for anyone to come in. It was very nasty.
Prabhupāda: But you are living since a long time there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have been living, but we have not invited others there.
Prabhupāda: No, you invite others or not, whether your program was going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, till then it wasn't, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then it was simply a joint mess, that you go and collect and come and eat and sleep.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Kṣurasya dhārā, kṣurasya dhārā. Kṣura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that.
Prabhupāda: How do you like that place?
Banker: Very much. Quiet, peaceful. After a day of work in the bank it's a very nice place to retreat to.
Prabhupāda: Now, they were coming from Juhu to bank. So where is the difficulty? Such responsible officer, bank manager, they are coming and going, and you sannyāsīs cannot come and go? He has got responsible duties, he has to arrive in the office exactly in time.
Banker: It's thirty-three minutes by train from Churchgate to Juhu.
Gargamuni: But now he's not staying there. He's staying in town.
Banker: That's only because I'm going to New York next week. Only reason.
Prabhupāda: That is not other reason. There are many officers of your bank might be living there?
Banker: National and Grindlay's bank officers are there. Several British companies have officers there. I was the only American for awhile.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you'll be moving out there again when you come back?
Banker: No, I've been transferred to New York. I'm in a hotel because my things are packed.
Prabhupāda: You are going to New York?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: What is exactly the position of the Vasus?
Prabhupāda: Vasus, they are demigods. Before appearance of Kṛṣṇa, some of the exalted demigods were ordered to come and arrange for His arrival. So Uddhava arrived, and many others arrived. They were coming from heavenly planets.
Bali Mardana: Bhīṣmadeva was also one of the Vasus previously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Aṣṭa-vasu.
Bali Mardana: In Bhīṣmadeva's instructions, while he was dying, one of the questions that he was asked is "Which is more powerful, action or destiny, karma?" He replied that they are both very powerful, but of the two, action was more powerful.
Prabhupāda: Time. Reaction. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... What is that bird? (tropical—sounding bird in background) Bird, or something else?
Bali Mardana: Bird.
Prabhupāda: That sound? (break) ...our philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they actually want to be happy. This is a fact. Not sentimentally, but scientifically, philosophically. Let them... Let the biggest scientists, biggest philosopher, come and understand. (break) ...gone away, but nobody saw.
Prabhupāda: ...come with me?
Guest: Yes. when I came with you, I came back once again, and this is the second time.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: That time I stayed four months, and this time I've just arrived again.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So what is your program now?
Guest: Uh, well I came to see Nim Karoli. I didn't know you were in town and I was down the street and I saw Guru dāsa, so I said, I went over and said hello to him.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: And he, he and Yamunā insisted that I come visit you.
Prabhupāda: Nim Karoli, how do you know him?
Guest: Well, you've heard of Richard Alpert? Er, oh, a man called Baba Rāma Dāsa? You know Richard Alpert?
Prabhupāda: Oh, Balarāma, he was here.
Devotee: Baba Rāma, Baba Rāma.
Devotee (2): Baba Rāma Dāsa.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Buddha didn't say that.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you, why do you study Buddha philosophy?
Guest: Well he said, "You study Buddha philosophy to arrive at principles of truth," but what Buddha said...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Buddha philosophy...
Guest: What Buddha said was, he says, "Don't accept anything because I tell it to you. Don't accept anything because it's been believed for a long time by many people in many different places." He says, "Only believe that which you find true for yourself, and that is for your own good and for the good of others."
Prabhupāda: But these are teachings of Buddha.
Guest: Huh, but...
Prabhupāda: But...
Guest: But he's pointing at how to arrive at principles of truth. This, this is, uh, more uh, of an independent approach. He's not uh, I don't think he was trying to cheat anybody but he was trying to...
Prabhupāda: Not that. Cheating this sense, sometimes just so you, I cheat my child. The father is not cheater, but sometimes it is required.
Prabhupāda: Good, good lessons for...
Guest: "...leaves are made out of gold to keep children from crying," meaning that you have to arrive at truth from your own self, your own understanding. Nobody can, you know, no blind following, as you yourself say. I remember correctly that you used to preach and say, uh, that uh, you shouldn't accept anything blindly.
Prabhupāda: That, in the Bhāgavata it is said, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Lord Buddha appeared for cheating or bewildering the atheistic person. They do not believe in the (indistinct). They did not, did not believe in God, but God is there. Lord Buddha himself is God. Just like if I say I don't want (indistinct), but you come in a different place. So (indistinct) is there, but I am thinking it is not (indistinct). Similarly, God is there—Buddha—but they are thinking that they don't believe in God. This is cheating. God is there. They are worshiping Lord Buddha exactly as we worship Kṛṣṇa. Then is it not the same? Then how do they say they don't believe in God? They are made to believe in God in a different way. That is cheating, and it is good for them. That is written in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). (break) They're Australian. (Hindi conversation with another guest about Lakṣmī's position in relation to Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs) (break)
Guru Dāsa: Like Lord Caitanya, you have also showed him the right way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: When you consider different...
Prabhupāda: So a devotee, therefore, goes everywhere and begs, "Please become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Please become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa." That's all.
Dr. Patel: Yesterday, that film arrived?
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Dr. Patel: I saw it. I saw you dancing also. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. And because I dance, therefore they dance.
Dr. Patel: But that was becoming in America, the last part of it?
Prabhupāda: No. It was in London. Deity installation.
Dr. Patel: He did it very well, the man who edited the film.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that Yaduvara. He is very good. Where is Yaduvara? He is here? No. His wife. Yes. She's also... Viśākhā. They are, husband and wife, both of them, very expert, photography.
Dr. Patel: I may now solicit one to the, to the māyā, that (Hindi) of the working this.
Prabhupāda: What is that? That is not māyā. (break?)
Atreya Ṛṣi: Niran, san, oṁkara, dvāroṁkāra, so 'ham, sat-nām.
Guest: Sat-nām. Those five names, according to your ways, position, you will be attracted to one of the names. Everyone has a center of power, energy, the way he taught us. Whatever you fear(indistinct), what particular name one(indistinct), some one that you're attracted to meditating on. (indistinct) dvāroṁkāra, so 'ham and sat-nām. I thought that I met a good master.
Dhanañjaya: Mr. O'Grady. Desmond O'Grady and some of his friends have just arrived. They'd like to come and see you and speak with you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is the Irish poet. (guests enter)
Satsvarūpa: Please sit down.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. How are you?
Woman: Very well, thank you.
O'Grady: We are very well and very tired. We've been traveling a long, long way, a long road from Delhi.
Dhanañjaya: Desmond is a poet. He's written books also, published in London. And tomorrow he goes to Sicily to a convention of poets and writers, international conference for writers and poets. He's representing Ireland, he's coming from Limerick in Southern Ireland.
Yogeśvara: What is your explanation of the genetic code?
Dr. Sallaz: (French)
Yogeśvara: He says... Very interesting. He says one of the conclusions that they have arrived at is that despite all of your research work, despite all of your scientific studies, if you don't have a simple spirit of inquiry, you won't be able to understand the codes of life. He says the genetic codes, actually, it is a great secret, a mystery, which they are trying to prepare for general understanding, and that secret is that you must be of a simple, humble spirit in order to understand the mysteries of life.
Dr. Sallaz: You must try to look for truth, and when you look for truth, you see very extraordinary and simple solution explaining everything for the scientific men. But the time is not right to give it to them. A little later, yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You spoke of a destruction. You said that without a spiritual revolution, there would be some type of destruction. What exactly do you think of as destruction?
Dr. Sallaz: Oh, the world will be dead.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: No. In the Bhagavad-gītā we have information that the living force, or the soul, is neither born and neither it dies.
Dr. Sallaz: Ah, yes. I meant this world. Matter is the earth. Be careful. I don't mean life in general...
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Now, this is the point that my spiritual master is bringing out, that the material energy is inferior, and in order to have a spiritual revolution you have to understand the superior energy which is eternal, without birth and without death. So, of course, there is no question of destruction for the soul.
Dr. Sallaz: Destruction in our occidental language and practically, which is not yours.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Destruction in simple terms, just as we know something has a beginning and something has an end. That is destruction. So in Vedic terms that which has a beginning and has an end is called material, and that which has no beginning and no end, but is existing nonetheless, that is called spiritual or superior energy.
Dr. Sallaz: Of course. This cannot be destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That cannot be destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Paramahaṁsa: That vice, or sinful activity is not something one is born with, that he acquires those qualities. But many people believe today that they are born, you know...
Prabhupāda: But we are giving you the process of cleansing. Why you are persisting to remain unclean? We are giving you the medicine. We are all unclean. Now we are attempting and we are becoming clean. Why don't you come and be cleansed? (break) ...Navadvīpa. From the day you arrive there, you'll be cleansed. I have got such a nice place. Come there, and stay, according to our rules and regulations. He'll be cleansed. One may be diseased but there are so many clinics, so many physicians, cleaning. Why should you insist to remain unclean? (break) That is accepted. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ (?). By birth, everyone is a śūdra. Śūdra means unclean. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. But he takes to the reformatory methods, he becomes cleansed, dvija, twice-born, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya.
Paramahaṁsa: Do people naturally act sinfully, or is that something that they develop?
Prabhupāda: Hm? By association. If you mix with the drunkards, you'll learn how to drink. And if you mix with the devotees, similarly, you can become cleansed. By the association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. One's desires develop according to the association.
Bhagavān: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā, you state that sometimes they begin to take on these demonic qualities within the womb. These demonic qualities are inherited from the past life. So if we begin Kṛṣṇa conscious education very young, it's possible to stop these demonic qualities from developing?
Professor La Combe: But I think that nowadays the situation in Calcutta is better. You would not have the same kind of difficulties this year I suppose.
Prabhupāda: No, it is easier now. In 1970, '69 there was no security. When you go out, there is no security whether you'll come back. Yes. You were at that time there? No.
Devotee: No, I arrived there just after. I arrived in Bombay when that was happening. The Naxalites...
Prabhupāda: Any man walking on the street can be killed. It was the situation.
Devotee: Especially any rich man or politician.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor La Combe: The Vice Chancellor of Jadavpur University was killed the day before I arrived in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Old gentleman?
Professor La Combe: Yes. And he was retiring. He was still in activity, but he was soon retiring, and he was walking from the University campus to his home, not far, a short walk. And he was killed by one of these...
Prabhupāda: Naxalites.
Professor La Combe: Naxalites or somebody of the same kind. I don't know exactly. And he was not a politician at all. He had no political activities.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).
Rāmeśvara: We have two warehouses... (break) ...to the wall and up to the ceiling.
Prabhupāda: So they are going or simply stock?
Rāmeśvara: No. It is greatly reduced since they have arrived.
Prabhupāda: So Haṁsadūta, he has to make a go-down like this.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Then he'll defeat these charges. Eh? When the nation, German nation, will accept these books, then that will be proper reply, charges.
Rāmeśvara: This forklift lifts these pallets high up to the ceiling.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hṛdayānanda: Does Prabhupāda want to see how it work? Śruta-śravā, you can show him how it works? Quickly.
Rāmeśvara: These racks we purchased for storing the books that will be sent to the libraries and colleges. When Satsvarūpa Swami gets the orders, they are reserved over here, five hundred copies of each book, and then, when we run out, another five hundred copies goes in the rack. So that way, we always keep books. Even if we sell out, we always have books reserved for the libraries. Śruta-śravā manages our warehouse. (engine started)
Rāmeśvara: We have fire alarm? These are Kṛṣṇa Trilogies.
Prabhupāda: All these? All these, stock?
Rāmeśvara: We always require large inventory because the temples order so fast. Bhagavad-gītās in this corner, and on this back wall here, all the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams and Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes... These books have just arrived from the printer.
Prabhupāda: Where is that Prajāpati? He's not here? That play yesterday... Last evening I saw. It was very nice.
Gurudāsa: Yes. They also did Pralambāsura for the guests.
Prabhupāda: No... Now we have got Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhāgavatam. If such demonstration are done very nicely, it will be very much appreciated even by the public. We can collect some money.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. We plan to make a tour this summer all the way up the West Coast, and in the amphitheaters...
Prabhupāda: And in India also. Simply you have to change the language, dictate.
Jayatīrtha: Of the narration.
Gurudāsa: Yes. They're planning to do that.
Prabhupāda: In our festival let them come and show. What is this? That man? What is his name who showed Gaurāṅga līlā?
Prabhupāda: This is our position. God is maintainer and we are maintained. God is predominator and we are predominated. This is our position. We are not equal to God, neither over God. We are always subordinate. And why you are subordinate? Because He maintains us. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He is the supreme being and we are subordinate being. We are maintained by God. That is Vedic instruction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) This is understanding of God. He is nitya, He's eternal, and we are also eternal because we are samples of God. God is great and perfect and in our this position we are subordinate, and in material condition we are imperfect. So even if we become perfect, still we remain subordinate. Therefore our position is always to abide by the orders of God. This is religion. When we abide by the orders of God, then we are religious. When we do not, then we are demons or Satan. (speaks with arriving guests in Hindi, inviting them to come in and asking whether they have been to the temple in Vṛndāvana) Religion means to remain faithful to God and abide by His order. That is religion. (end)
Acyutānanda: There's a single serious way. You can say, "Look, you've been sitting here since St. Paul, and you haven't arrived at anything except discussion, and you're bluffing the whole public that you're doing some advanced research and taking salaries and..."
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But, but we have to convince them.
Pañcadraviḍa: But how can you convince them...?
Acyutānanda: We'll convince them that they haven't come to any conclusion.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yeah, how can you convince them if they can't even, they cannot define who is God, they cannot define what is the soul, they cannot define what is the principles of religion?
Acyutānanda: And their leader is breaking all of them.
Pañcadraviḍa: They cannot... They can't... They don't even have any disciplic succession. Their śāstra is... They can't agree among them what is the concise śāstra, nor can they agree on what is the importance of accepting śāstra in the first place. They're doing all sinful activities. So then... Then what is there to convince?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: So why not start an authoritative group of Christians who chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, who study the Bible and read the Bhagavad-gītā?
Acyutānanda: We are.
Prabhupāda: We are all Christians.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are wrongly directed. You are inquiring me, "Sir I want to such and such place." If that place is this way, if I say you go this way. You go this way. Then you'll be baffled, and you'll be unhappy. Wrong direction.
Paramahaṁsa: But we are taking some direction from...
Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you take wrong direction you'll be unhappy. Your destination will not be (reached).
Gaṇeśa: So how can the scientists arrive at vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)?
Prabhupāda: For that he has to take direction from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says the destination Himself. He comes and says, "Here is, I am the destination, come here." But if you don't take, that is your misfortune. The direction is here. The perfect director is there, but he's unfortunate—he does not accept this. Therefore he is baffled. We are... Our propaganda is therefore, that you rascals, all blind leaders, rascals, don't try to lead. Take Kṛṣṇa's instruction and lead. Then you'll be perfect. This is our propaganda. Leading must be there, direction must be there, but the direction and leading must be perfect, then (indistinct). Or enquiries must be there but if the answers or the leading is bad, then you have to (indistinct). So we should make our enquiry to Kṛṣṇa, and take His direction.
Paramahaṁsa: But some people say that the Bhagavad-gītā is the direction, and some people say that the Koran is the direction, some people...
Prabhupāda: Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." So why they are killing?
Guest (1): Yes, you're right. But, you know, up the road someplace maybe there's an answer.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Guest (1): Maybe up the road there's an answer someplace, but we're too slow in arriving there.
Prabhupāda: There is no answer. The Lord says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing? Who is a Christian? If you don't obey the order of Christ, how you become a Christian? You cannot say that you are Christian if you disobey the order of Christ.
Guest (1): Yes, I know. You're right. You can't kill...
Prabhupāda: If you don't carry out the order of the government, then you are not a good citizen.
Guest (1): Now, you look like you're either English or...
Prabhupāda: We are neither English nor American. We are servant of God.
Guest (1): I know. You're brotherhood of man. But just my own curiosity... Of course, you have converts of all...
Prabhupāda: No convert. Actually we are. Just like you have got this different dress from me. That does not mean you are convert to the dress. You are a gentleman; I am a gentleman. That's all.
Brahmānanda: Yes, but he did not come.
Bahulāśva: I spoke this morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with Dr. Judah.
Prabhupāda: Where he is?
Bahulāśva: He'll be arriving tomorrow night. He just got in from Boston and he wanted one day to rest a little bit, and then he'll be coming tomorrow night. He'll probably get here around seven o'clock and then he'll come on the walk in the morning and then you can, as you like, you can speak with him that day. He has spoke already with the publisher, the Wiley Company and he is getting permission that you wanted him to publish some part of his book, that preface. So he is getting permission from them to do that. He also... I was speaking with him. He also said that if you wanted, he would write more different things supporting our movement. Some little thing to print, like some little book, like we had "The Scientific Basis," he could write some little things independently and we could print whatever you like. He is very eager to help.
Rāmeśvara: You mean like a foreword?
Bahulāśva: Whatever you like.
Rāmeśvara: He could print some foreword and it would be inserted in our book?
Bahulāśva: He said he'll write whatever Prabhupāda wants. He is surrendered.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man (3): We would like to request you to stay more longer in this country.
Prabhupāda: So if you start a good center I will stay and see that things are going on. (aside:) Just take this stick.
Indian man (3): Then I could... I think we would be able to benefit from you much more. See, your arrival in this period in Durban, with so many functions that we are carrying on today in this whole week, that people were sort of distributed and quite a lot of them were unable to even come to your meetings.
Prabhupāda: Oh. No, our meetings were well attended.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have had full house all the time.
Indian man (3): Yes, I know your house, but you could have had even more than full house.
Indian man (1): There are about four hundred thousand Indians alone here.
Indian man (3): Yes. The reason of that Navaratri festival, these Ārya samājīs they have had, well in advance. They had their celebrations and all, so a lot of people were unable to come. Do you think it will be possible for you to come back to Durban from Johannesburg, after your Johannesburg stay?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I can come back. There is no harm. (break)
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That... Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) If any question, we are discussing so many things.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any questions?
Indian (3): This... We've arrived from home, you know. We were at the temple and Bhattasauri says, "Swamiji has gone for a walk at the golf course," so it was quite convenient to find us here. We just rushed up. I said, "Let me rush in to join the walk."
Prabhupāda: So you can repeat what I have spoken. They can hear.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Kṛṣṇa, He describes so...
Prabhupāda: No, you can play this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay, play back. Comes in handy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh? (Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa plays back tape recording:)
Prabhupāda: "They are trying to maintain this body although the rascals know it will not be maintained. You cannot, you are not allowed to maintain, neither you'll be allowed. Still they are trying. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30)."
Harikeśa: (aside:) The car is there.
Prabhupāda: No, we shall walk. (tape recording continues)
Brahmānanda: There was a man yesterday at Dabji's house who was the brāhmaṇa who was officiating. He is a very much caste conscious brāhmaṇa, and although he and Shah were the first ones to meet you at the Nairobi airport when you arrived, in Nairobi, as soon as he heard your philosophy, he has never come. He came the first day only when you first arrived, and since that day he has never come. And yesterday I think he must have just come because Shah forced him. But he does not at all like our philosophy that brāhmaṇa by qualification. He is very staunch—"brāhmaṇa by birth."
Devotee (5): They always say the Africans could never become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: How they are becoming?
Devotee (5): They don't believe.
Prabhupāda: Believe? You do not see even?
Devotee (5): But they say that "Oh, he will do it, and then, after one year, he will stop."
Prabhupāda: Well, that is another criticism. Somebody is eating nice yogurt. Everyone will say, "Oh, it is very nice. It is very nice, very nice." Another man says, "Yes, it is nice, but after three days it will be sour." (laughter) You rascal, you consider for the present. What "after three days"? Means he's a bad critic, so he could not find out any fault. Everyone says it is good. So "After three days it will be bad." This sort of criticism. So you have already become bad. You were doing service to others. What does he do, that priest?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayapatākā: Elephant?
Prabhupāda: No elephant. Why elephant? Elephant is royal. We are not royal. We are beggars, sannyāsī, beggars.
Hṛdayānanda: These buses arriving in the village will be very... People will never forget it.
Hari-śauri: That procession we had in the villages near Ahmedabad, in the villages there, that must have been a once in a lifetime experience for most of them.
Prabhupāda: We can go there... And now, wherever we shall go, they will be received like that.
Jayapatākā: They especially mentioned...
Prabhupāda: The Indian people are meant for that purpose. They are from the birth, janma... Other, they are janmanā śūdra, but Indians, they are janmanā devotees.
Jayapatākā: I meant to mention that he commented that when they were coming from Andhra, when they, as they're getting closer to Bengal, in Orissa, and then even more so in Bengal, the, both in Ori... so many kīrtana was there. The people were meeting them with kīrtana and everyone was doing kīrtana. But in Andhra and other places, not so much kīrtana is there.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayapatāka: Śrīla Prabhupāda is so merciful that if it comes to a point where it means that a person is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I think Prabhupāda'd rather support them and let them be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's why you have to see whether they stay in the society.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dragging us back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: When this paṇḍal is going to be filled up?
Bhavānanda: The exhibits should be arriving today with the devotees, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Who are these men?
Bhavānanda: They are the paṇḍal workers.
Prabhupāda: Paṇḍal work... (break) Always, what is called...? Communism. They say, whole world, "We are Communists," "We are capitalists," "We are socialists," and "We are nonviolent," "We are violent."
Madhudviṣa: Dualism.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Madhudviṣa: Dualism?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not dualism. How many isms, nobody knows. But... What is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...milk is cheaper than the bottle.
Dr. Patel: Just as wine is cheaper in Paris than water. I had to pay more for a glass of water. (Hindi) (break) It is not here, but...
Prabhupāda: It is in Delhi.
Dr. Patel: They should come here. So they may arrive some day.
Prabhupāda: So where is? Arrange to bring him. Otherwise they will not believe.
Dr. Patel: No, no, we believe you, sir. But we want a darśana of it. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So ask. Bring it in the meantime. (break) ...not less than one lakh of devotees, at least, so crowded.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where is that at, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where is that?
Prabhupāda: Māyāpur.
Dr. Patel: That is on holy day, no?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Patel: And one on the day you were in London.
Harisauri: The thing is that the materialists will always find that. They see the devotees and we say that we renounce everything, but they don't understand that renunciation means to take everything and give it to Kṛṣṇa. So when... Just like that time there was such a great commotion when we hired that Rolls Royce to take Your Divine Grace from the airport to the temple. So in the papers they didn't put anything that you said. They simply put "His Divine Grace is arriving in a Rolls Royce." So this is the general attitude of the common mass of people.
Prabhupāda: That is envious. So if they sell books, so that is making Kṛṣṇa unpopular?
Bhūrijana: But one must learn to be a good book salesman I think.
Prabhupāda: But selling book, Kṛṣṇa, does it mean that the booksellers are creating unpopular opinion? Does it mean?
Bhūrijana: Automatically, no.
Prabhupāda: When you say that they're making enemies because they're pushing this, what is wrong there? Actually, I can so far understand that you do not like to sell books, or you cannot sell books.
Bhūrijana: Actually I've never really tried.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhūrijana: I've never really attempted very much.
Prabhupāda: Those who are selling books you think of them they're not very advanced.
Prabhupāda: No, although the volume of work has.... (break) ...a hundred times, but these American disciples, they are helping me, so I haven't got to work personally so much. I simply give the instruction and they carry out, but the work has increased voluminously, there's no doubt it. I came here alone in 1965 without any help practically. Where to live, where to sleep, there was no destination. Sometimes some friend's house, sometimes some friend's house, practically loitering on the street. And in this way were passed more than one year. I arrived here in 1965 in September, end of September, 17th of September, in Boston. Hm. Is it Boston?
Devotee (1): Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, in Boston, I stayed on the sea, on the only, but I saw the Boston city. Then I was brought to New York. So I had one friend in Butler, Pennsylvania. Hm. After my arrival, I was received by some representative of my host. So he took me to Butler, and there I stayed for twenty days. Then I came to New York. (break) One (indistinct), one Dr. Miśra, so that is the beginning of my life in New York. Then struggling, then gradually, when these boys came to me, I got some relief. And in this way, we are propagating, opening branches, and the movement is going forward.
Reporter: Are there many decisions that people asked you to make, about whether the movement should do this, or should do that, or do they bother you of that now, or are you just busy writing and translating?
Prabhupāda: No, we do not accept any—what is called?—defective suggestion. We do not accept. We have got our program. This program is coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. The Bhagavad-gītā is there.
Prabhupāda: They have got a press in Hong Kong?
Trivikrama: Yes. At least an office. I'm not... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa said there was a press, but I'm not sure.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Hari-śauri: It says here that this is possibly the very first newspaper article of your arrival in the West. This is, er, this was written at the time that you, the very first month you were there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Butler.
Trivikrama: It says you may stay for one month (laughs).
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Hari-śauri: It says you have come for one month as a commissioner to preach bhakti-yoga in the West.
Prabhupāda: Called me "Ambassador." It is a very old article. Where you got it?
Trivikrama: From one... Candanācārya had a copy.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It was in Butler in 19...
Devotee: You were staying in the YMCA.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) So I did not say anything seriously, but perhaps he took it very seriously, Gopal's father. So he might have written to Gopal that "Swami Bhaktivedanta wants to go to America. If you sponsor, then he can go." So whatever the correspondence was there between the father and son, I did not know. I simply asked him, "Why don't you ask your son Gopal to sponsor so that I can go there? I want to preach there." So after some months, three, four months, the No-Objection Certificate from the Indian embassy in New York, Gopal sent to me, yes, that he had already sponsored my arrival there for one month. So all of a sudden I got the paper, No-Objection Certificate by the Indian embassy. After so much inquiry, I learned that so much inquiry was done and so on, so on. Then I tried to take a passport and paper process. So I got the passport. Then I approached that Śrīmatī Morarji. She once gave me five hundred rupees in exchange of my Bhāgavata book, so I approached her, that "Give me one ticket." They have got their shipping company, Scindia Navigation. So she said, "Swamiji, you are so old, you are taking this so responsibility. Do you think it is right?" "No, it is all right." (laughs) At that time, I was seventy years old. So all the secretary, they thought that "Swamiji is going to die there." Anyway, they gave me the ticket, one return free ticket by their ship. Then arrangement was going on. So there is another process to get a P-form. You know.
Guest: P-form.
Prabhupāda: The dream was that Kṛṣṇa in His many forms was bowing the row. What is called?
Hari-śauri: Rowing the boat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Trivikrama: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: And when I arrived in Boston I wrote that poetry.
Hari-śauri: If you were only sponsored for one month, how is it that you were able to extend your visa all the time?
Prabhupāda: I was extending. The immigration officer came in Boston in my boat. He inquired about this. So he asked me, "Sir, Swamiji, how long you want to stay?" So I thought that I have no shelter, I have no money, but I have got the return ticket. So I did not know how long I... (laughs) He asked me, "How long you want to stay?" So I thought, "In these circumstances, I can stay at most two months, because I have no means where to stay, how to eat, and where shall I go? So I may struggle for two months." So I told him: "I may stay at most two months." He immediately, two months, sanctioned immediately. I could not think that I shall be able to... (laughs) That one month were there, sponsoring. So I thought "Another one month, that's all," that "This gentleman has sponsored for one month. So that is guaranteed. Then I can stay another one month. That's all." So after that, so I was staying here and there without any fixity. So I was extending the visa. Each time, I was paying ten dollars. Another three months, another three months, like that. And when one year was finished, they refused: "No extension."
Prabhupāda: No, Aniruddha.
Devotee: Oh, Aniruddha.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he was taking care of me here in Los Angeles. And they used to come from San Francisco. First of all, I came to San Francisco from India. Then I came to Los Angeles, to start a center here. I think Dayānanda took charge of this center.
Hari-śauri: So Los Angeles center was opened on your arrival back from India. And up to that time there was New York and...?
Prabhupāda: San Francisco.
Devotee: And Montreal?
Prabhupāda: No, Montreal later. I think, maybe, Montreal first. (end)
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: By plane?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. I left New Vrindaban about nine o'clock. The plane left Pittsburgh at 11:30.
Prabhupāda: To Los Angeles.
Kīrtanānanda: Arrived here at 3:15.
Prabhupāda: Pittsburgh.
Kīrtanānanda: We stopped in Chicago for one hour.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Kīrtanānanda: You go to Detroit from here?
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is the program.
Rāmeśvara: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and Jayādvaita will be in Detroit also.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Rāmeśvara: Anxiously waiting.
Prabhupāda: You have seen our Detroit, new?
Hṛdayānanda: No one could imagine that.
Prabhupāda: You have seen all my room in the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple?
Rādhā-vallabha: We looked through the cracks. They're usually not open. Very inspiring.
Hṛdayānanda: Rādhā-vallabha has one newspaper article when you had just arrived in, I think, Butler.
Rādhā-vallabha: Trivikrama brought it up last..., two nights ago.
Hṛdayānanda: When you had just arrived, I think before going to New York, and when you were being interviewed, and it said the Swami is welcoming lectures, and it was very inspiring for us.
Prabhupāda: The Butler picture?
Rādhā-vallabha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Another paper was there: "Ambassador of India's culture."
Hari-śauri: Yes, that was the same article, in the Butler Eagle. It shows a photograph of you looking through one of your books.
Hṛdayānanda: Many times the devotees lament that we could not have been there to help you, because there was so much service.
Prabhupāda: Not park, there is a pier, pier (pronounces "pire") what do you call?
Ambarīṣa: Oh, pier, pier. Oh, yes, it is near there, Prabhupāda, that's where you landed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)
Ambarīṣa: Yes, it is not far. We're having Ratha-yātrā in Boston for the first time this year, and we're going to take the Ratha carts down to Commonwealth Pier in honor of your arrival.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) There is one A.P. store?
Ambarīṣa: A P?
Prabhupāda: A-P, A-P store.
Ambarīṣa: Market? Yes, it's still there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I saw first. (laughter) I remember.
Ambarīṣa: So there are many nice projects going on in Boston. We are hoping that maybe sometime you can come. That would be very nice.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. From New York it is not...
Ambarīṣa: No, it is very close to New York, half-hour airplane ride.
Prabhupāda: Liquids, yes. Milk is the best food. Children, when there is no teeth, milk is the food. In Western country also, I think old men, they take milk and puffed rice. Is it?
Hari-śauri: Yes, soft foods anyway.
Prabhupāda: In India, especially in Bengal, there is a preparation, it is softer than the puffed rice-khoi, fused rice. That is very good. Light, at the same time soft purgative. That milk mixed with is a very good food for old men.
Hari-śauri: In that newspaper article in the Butler Eagle, that very first article when you just arrived that we saw? They showed that copy in Los Angeles. It mentioned, the reporter there, he quoted you as saying that—you were telling him about milk, how good it was—and he quoted you as saying that milk is the miracle food for babies and old men.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. No, it may be there are so many other foods, but cent percent of the human society, everyone, has some way or other taken milk. So morally, cow is our mother. How these mothers are being killed? That is the question. Where is morality? Where is...? And they are drawing last drop of the milk. And there is necessity of milk. "After taking whatever money you have got..., take, I shall kill you." What is this? Horrible society. If I take from you whatever you have got in your pocket and then I kill you.... What is this society?
Jagadīśa: The only thing that stops them from killing each other is that there are certain laws. Otherwise, I'm sure that the human beings are so barbaric that they would kill each other.
Hari-śauri: Actually, they are making adjustments to the law so that they can do that.
Prabhupāda: Hour and half?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Kīrtanānanda: To the airport from Toronto?
Hari-śauri: From leaving Toronto, we left one o'clock, and we arrived at, it was about two hours. We arrived just after three.
Kīrtanānanda: Some devotees were there from Buffalo?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: ...had a very nice place for you.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) People are being kept in such an ignorant way that they do not care about sinful activities. They can do anything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Actually, there is no advancement of civilization. They are thinking, they are running on four-wheel motorcar, and the dog is running on four legs. What is the quality change? This is going on in the name of civilization, and people are kept in ignorance. Where is the advancement? Running by motorcar is advancement? They have no knowledge that there is next life, and "Today I am running on Ford car, tomorrow I may have to run like dog on four legs."
Vṛṣākapi: ...Deities we have ordered. They will be arriving in two months. Also we have Prabhupāda-Bhaktisiddhānta deities. They will be coming also. We will be the first in America to have Prabhupāda, Bhaktisiddhānta and Sītā-Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Here?
Vṛṣākapi: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Very good. This rasagullā is nice.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not as good as Keśī dāsa.
Prabhupāda: They make it like Keśī dāsa in New Vrindaban. (long pause) Water.
Vṛṣākapi: Here, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...to purchase it? And he has to sell to us. Nobody will purchase.
Rūpānuga: No. And we have the option secured with a deposit. Otherwise, we would not spend so much money.
Prabhupāda: Now, as soon as possible, you purchase. Six hundred thousand?
Rūpānuga: Six-fifty.
Vṛṣākapi: We have purchased. In effect, we have already purchased, Prabhupāda. It is ours.
Rūpānuga: It is just that we have ten years to get more money.
Vṛṣākapi: It's cheaper to make the payments than to try and buy.
Prabhupāda: But Rāmeśvara has not agreed to pay?
Bill Sauer: Well, in the natural world and in the cosmos, nothing is stable. Life only survives all the things that can cause it to perish by mobility, by moving. A coconut tree on one island drops its seeds in the ocean to float for thousands of miles to wash up on another shore, so that if that island is destroyed it will have life on another island. The seed blossom of a plant is the way the plant survives. It sends its seeds off to other meadows to assure its survival. The premise here is that humanity arrived in nature very recently. We are part of nature, but we arrived very recently to give life on earth the same mobility, the same chance to survive. Among the hundreds of other planets in the universe, as a dandelion does in seeding other meadows, as a coconut palm does in surviving on other islands—the coconut palm does not know that there are other islands, but yet it launches its seeds to the unknown currents of the ocean—I believe it is our duty to launch our seeds, our space arks, launch those seeds to the unknown gravitational currents of the stars and find the hundreds of other planets that are out there, so that there cannot be enough cosmic disasters to cause life to perish. And it was meeting two or three of your people at the airport, and I asked them about—at the Washington National Airport, I think it was Meena and Mary Davis, and Sarvabhauma I believe—and I said "What about your philosophy?" He said, "We talk about living on other planets." Boy, (laughs) right away I got very interested. And I believe people have had visions of life to other planets because I believe that's our destiny, and that is our reason for existence in nature. I've been interested in the Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll say why? I'm a materialistic type, why am I here? (laughs) You have an interesting philosophy that... You see, not all of us can be building space arks, not all of us can leave the earth, and we should not be using up all our material resources, destroying all other life unnecessarily. And I think that we have to adopt a life style that is a little simpler, that we would enjoy life on this earth, where most of us have to stay, with lesser material requirements. Secondly, I believe we are going to have to have a different type of society on a space ark if we're going to have maybe a hundred years to two hundreds years going to another star. The traditional societies that we are familiar with may not be able to survive the social pressures. Maybe this type of an environment-Is this communal, would you say?—I think it's going to have to be some type of communal environment to survive this kind of a trip. So this is my interest in the Kṛṣṇa movement. I think they seem to have the visions of going to other planets, which I think is our only reason for existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, I was discussing. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planetary system where the devas, the demigods live. Their duration of life is very, very big. Our six months is equal to one day there. Such ten thousands of years they live. But they die. It is not permanent. But the duration of life is very big, the standard of life is very high. These are the advantages. But there is death, old age, disease; birth, death, old age and disease. But if you transfer yourself in the spiritual kingdom, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then you don't get any more material birth there. That is because we are eternal, we living entities. We do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After giving up this body we do not die actually; we accept another body.
Hari-śauri: Kīrtana, the reaction was amazing, people were dancing and chanting and waving, Prabhupāda was in ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New York climate is very nice. Sometimes now it rains a little bit, then shining. So just like Bengal.
Rāmeśvara: I observed that these devotees at New York, they've practically given up sleeping this past week to prepare everything for your arrival.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are so kind to me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they worked very hard.
Rāmeśvara: It reminded me that time when the Press devotees stayed up all the time to get those Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes. The same spirit. They just stopped eating and sleeping.
Prabhupāda: That is love. These things can be done only out of love.
Rāmeśvara: There were some hired carpenters and painters, and their last day of working was, I think, Wednesday. So yesterday and this morning they came in voluntarily, they stayed up the whole night without sleep, and they continued working.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eight o'clock yesterday, and they just finished this morning. Straight through the night.
Prabhupāda: They are professional?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. What does he say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Prabhupāda, ācārya-founder, born Abhay Caran De in India in 1895, the founder, future founder-ācārya, spiritual leader of ISKCON, came under the spiritual direction of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, ascetic scholar and preacher who had devoted his life to the spread of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Three years later, shortly before he died, Bhaktisiddhānta ordered Abhay to spread the Kṛṣṇa faith in the English language. One of the ways that Abhay, now known as Prabhupāda-'one at whose feet masters sit'-did that was to begin to translate the classic Vedic literature, but it was not until thirty years after he was charged by his spiritual mentor that he was able to make a trip to the United States. He arrived in Boston in September, 1965, a spry but grim-faced passenger of seventy years on the steamer Jaladuta. He had forty rupees in his pocket and a metal suitcase full of his books and translations. Finding his way to New York City, he set up a storefront temple at 26 Second Avenue in the East Village section. Gradually he drew a small coterie of students around him, mostly through his preaching in Tompkinson Park. As his movement grew, he found backers among his converts. Hare Kṛṣṇa centers were established in Boston, Buffalo and San Francisco, and an appreciation of Prabhupāda's Vedic translations by American university authorities, Columbia, Princeton, Yale professors among others, permitted the establishment of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: That is not artificially. The more you are engaged in spiritual activities, the more you become free from material activities. That is the test.
Interviewer: And so you've arrived at that...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't speak about myself, but that is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). If you advance in bhakti, in spiritual life, then you become disinterested in material life.
Interviewer: Do you think there's a difference between the various peoples of the world? In other words, do you think that Indians as opposed to Europeans have more of a tendency or are more likely to adhere to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.
Hari-śauri: Like Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's traveling bus.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. It has a bathroom in it. That's going to accompany the parade in case at any time you require it, that will be right there. So it can go alongside the cart. At four o'clock we'll arrive, and at about four-thirty Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja will give a short introduction for you, and at four forty-five you'll speak. So at four forty-five you're expected to give the lecture. It begins at two o'clock at Fifty-ninth Street for two hours. Then by five or five-fifteen the whole thing will be over. So I wanted to know what time you would like to join the parade.
Prabhupāda: So you suggest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it depends on a number of things. One thing is your rest. After taking massage you take prasādam, and then your resting period. Another thing is how long you want to ride along on the cart. It depends on... I think it should depend on... I can't... No one can make that decision. We're agreeable to anything that you suggest. Devotees are enlivened simply that you're here in New York with us.
Prabhupāda: So at two o'clock you start?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.
Prabhupāda: You want me at the starting point?
Rāmeśvara: The nice-looking cars.
Prabhupāda: Good cars. This car and the other van.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, this car will be there. So that's nice. Three buses, Ādi-keśava, will you take care of that?
Ādi-keśava: And the nice-looking vans?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did the other two buses arrive?
Ādi-keśava: I know only of the two that are here.
Rāmeśvara: (break) ...were just amazed at the dancing of Lord Caitanya. How Lord Jagannātha would stop His car just to see. It says that Lord Jagannātha is maintaining the whole universe, so who can carry Him? Only by His sweet will for His own pastimes can He be moved. And the cart that moves Him is as tall as Mount Sumeru.
Prabhupāda: Potamkin..., and what was that in Washington, Potomyer?
Devotees: Potomac.
Rāmeśvara: And you wrote that just like the cart of Jagannātha is compared to Mount Sumeru, similarly, in London they were comparing it to that statue of Lord Nelson.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Nelson's column.
Rāmeśvara: Lord Nelson's column.
Prabhupāda: Baḍa sāheb.
Hari-śauri: Baḍa sāheb, big Westerner.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "While Hare Kṛṣṇa propounds doctrines of world renunciation common to other varieties of the Hindu faith, the sect, officially known as the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, was founded in 1966 by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, whose fame as a guru came only after he arrived in the United States in the same year. For most of the Indians watching the parade, however, Hare Kṛṣṇa was close enough to their brand of Hinduism to make them feel at home."
Gurudāsa: That's good. It means that we're not a light cult. It means we have a great tradition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's actually good.
Gurudāsa: They're recognizing that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'It's surprising that you find this right in New York City. It's our way of life,' said Nagan Patel, a civil engineer from Jersey City, who immigrated from Bombay. 'We love New York City and America. It's the most beautiful place in the world. No other country will give such freedom for our own ceremony.' "
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.
Harikeśa: Oh, your tickets are definitely booked on the nonstop flight. I finally managed to...
Prabhupāda: Take the ticket. Oh, we have got ticket.
Harikeśa: The reservation, I mean... And if for some reason we can't get on that flight, we have reservations on another flight that arrives four hours later.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.
Harikeśa: It changes, it leaves earlier and gets there four hours later. Was lunch all right today? Lunch? Your lunch was all right?
Hari-śauri: Was lunch all right? Prasādam?
Prabhupāda: The potatoes and karelā should be fried.
Harikeśa: Yes, it was fried. I fried it with the cover on.
Prabhupāda: No, not in the beginning. Fry it, and if it is still hard, then...
Harikeśa: Then put the cover on. Oh, all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes, not from beginning.
Harikeśa: Oh, I made a mistake.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Truth is one.
Translator: He says in terms of knowledge, one has a higher knowledge of that truth and one has a lower.
Prabhupāda: That is different thing, but truth is one. Just like top floor is one. And one has gone few steps, another hundred steps, one has got ten steps, that is depending. But top is one.
Bhūgarbha: Can he find the truth on his level, because he hasn't arrived at your level.
Prabhupāda: How he can? If the top floor is hundred steps, how you can get it at ten steps?
Bhagavān: The point is that he has to at least be aiming in the right direction.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that right direction you can take everybody's going, but one who has gone ten steps and one who has gone thousand steps, they are not equal. (man says "d'accord, d'accord.") What is "d'acca?"
Translator: He's agreeing.
Prabhupāda: So, truth is one. Everyone is trying to go to the truth. Somebody has gone ten steps, somebody has hundred steps, but to cover all the steps, say one thousand steps. So unless you have passed one thousand steps, you cannot reach to the truth.
Translator: He says it's always been difficult for him to keep walking or climbing up the stairs in the right direction.
Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed." So he had no other alternative, he immediately resigned, and on some plea like, "My heart is palpitating," so in this way he left the court and then he was never allowed again. And when his friends asked him that why you are doing this? He said, "What can I do? I have got at least ten thousand rupees expenditure per month and I get only four thousand." That was his... He was very able lawyer. By private practice he was earning more, but this practice... And nowadays it has come to, at least in India, anywhere you go, and bribe and you get a favorable decision. (guests arrive) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall be sitting inside or here?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Wherever you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I can like anywhere.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is good, this is good.
Prabhupāda: (to other guest) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. (Bengali) (long pause)
Devotee (1): The idea is that if you work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then you'll get a temple.
Guest: Yes.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only... Eight dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?
Prabhupāda: Seven dollars. (laughter)
Devotee (1): Seven dollars.
Dayānanda: But I think you got that from selling the Bhāgavatams.
Prabhupāda: That extra. We brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. And you were not allowed to take more than forty rupees. That is same now. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandia. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange, three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there, (indistinct) seven dollars. (Hindi)... (break) ...strongly by chance?
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: How do they support? In other words, they cannot give explanation, and like a foolish man says "Chance." You cannot give proper explanation how things are happening. Like a foolish rascal: "Chance."
Hari-śauri: They got one of those movie projectors—the ones in the small suitcase? With all the films. We were just testing it. They were just testing it downstairs.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We were planning to have..., to show one movie tonight for the guests, that new movie that is made about New Vrindaban. When our other guests arrive we will show it at about eight o'clock. Would you like also to see it again, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I have no objection. Where it will be shown?
Hari-śauri: They can show it anywhere.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Anywhere, we can show it here if you like.
Hari-śauri: Those little boxes, they also, apart from showing on the screen, they project onto the wall as well if you want.
Nava-yauvana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Ali. He was living with us for about four months and chanting sixteen rounds. Then he was taken into the army.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Little bit of army, little bit of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: A little bit of army took him, plus a little bit of māyā. He's a very sincere, nice boy.
Prabhupāda: So. Let him go on chanting. Chanting cannot be checked, any position. So what is your inquiry further?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: What is your further inquiry?
Prabhupāda: Our latest Vṛndāvana report is very encouraging. He has used the word "jam-packed," always people. They are selling good number of magazines, books, prasādam. Guesthouse is also filled up. Now we have festival going on nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is your further inquiry?
Mr. Sahani: Yes. So everybody who could have some money if he could afford it, he sent his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Berne, even Switzerland, but they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are the four places where everybody... In London you walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...
Prabhupāda: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. Utsāhān dhairyāt...
Nava-yauvana: So we are here, if we work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then there we will get a temple. Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only eight dollars? Forty dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?
Prabhupāda: Seven dollars.
Nava-yauvana: Seven dollars.
Dayānanda: I think you got that from selling Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: No, that extra. I brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. So they would not allow to take more than forty rupees. That is sufficient. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandiya. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange of three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there seven dollars. (end)
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. We are always traveling, they should give us some concession. Every time we get checked. Actually, the government should have given us the best facilities because I am distributing India's culture all over the world.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, I am not receiving encouragement from the leaders and the authorities. This is India's glory. History will say. (prasāda arrives) Give it, yes, you can...
Hari-śauri: Pass it out.
Prabhupāda: All people are responding all over the world. They... Money, men, strength, everything they are supplying. But we are not getting very good encouragement from India. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that every Indian should become guru and preach the instruction of Kṛṣṇa.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
- yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And people are hankering after receiving this instruction. Unfortunately, the so-called swamis, yogis, they are going... Or even politicians, they are not presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Anyway, so long I live I shall go on struggling like this. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So? What fruit you have got?
Hari-śauri: I'll go check.
Prabhupāda: Ask somebody to call Saurabha.
Pālikā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Pālikā: Some sweet one girl has made here.
Prabhupāda: Not everyone should make. She is initiated?
Pālikā: Yes. I will generally make, but I just arrived today so there was not time. (end)
Prabhupāda: That was his diagnosis.
Hari-śauri: Yes. So as soon as we came... Like in New Vrindaban, a little bit high, then again it changes over. But then, as soon as we left, then it stopped again.
Prabhupāda: Then this Mahabaleswar will not be...
Hari-śauri: No. If it's very high, the altitude will not be so good. As soon as we arrived in Iran, immediately the next day the swelling was there. I don't know how high this will be, but New Vrindaban is not so high.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes? (?)
Hari-śauri: I think someone said about 1200 feet, not very much. But that may be because the atmosphere in the hills is a little rarified as well.
Prabhupāda: I had vision of (indistinct)... More than going to the hill (indistinct). It is higher than sea level anyway... Therefore the northern portion of India is called upper. It is very higher than the sea level. It is called upper because it is much higher, very high from the ocean. But I was... Vṛndāvana is also that part of (indistinct). Only Bengal is not upper.
Hari-śauri: Yes, it's low.
Prabhupāda: It is near the sea, so... (end)
Prabhupāda: So that opportunity you'll get in our mission.
Paṇḍita: That is how I want to serve.
Prabhupāda: That opportunity you'll get. So now give him some resting place just now. And you take some of our books and go on. Then, after taking my meals, I shall come.
Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this Minister Rao, he's just arrived.
Prabhupāda: Just now? So...
Hari-śauri: What shall I do? Ask him to wait or...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: It's ten minutes before prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Call him. Call him.
Paṇḍita: I shall wait till you finish your meals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can take in your room. Give him some plate. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Minister: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Take prasādam. You give (Hindi) So you have brought? So if you kindly wait, then I can finish my meals. Then I shall talk.
Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.
Saurabha: He's explaining why you came to America and that in three years you spread the mantra all over the Western world.
Harikeśa: Yogeśvara has many pictures of this. I saw all of them once.
Prabhupāda: He is good collector. (break) What is that reason? What is that reason?
Indian man: To perceive things and after that we can arrive at long-term solutions.
Prabhupāda: First of all, what is the problem and what is the solution? What is the problem that you require solution?
Indian man: Any problem which comes.
Prabhupāda: No, what is that? That I want to know.
Indian man: Problem is of being happy in the world.
Prabhupāda: These are vague terms. You must distinctly say that this is happiness and this is problem. What is your, what is the idea of happiness and what is the problem? That I want to know.
Indian man: That I'm not very much clear at this stage of life.
Prabhupāda: Happiness, suppose if you can get a nice palatable dish for eating, you'll be happy. But the dog also, if he can get some good eating, he'll be happy. So where is the difference between dog's happiness and your happiness?
Indian man: Happiness should be combined with mental peace.
Prabhupāda: I am going there at six.
Doctor: Words of enlightenment.
Hari-śauri: Have you got any of Prabhupāda's books?
Doctor: I have got some. I bought all the volumes of translation of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I have got all of them. But some of them have not arrived from United States, the latest ones. And I have got...
Hari-śauri: That's very nice.
Prabhupāda: You are staying in New Delhi?
Doctor: I stay in the Hague, and come to New Delhi when there are no cases.
Prabhupāda: Hague?
Doctor: Holland.
Prabhupāda: Holland. That is the international court?
Doctor: Yes, the court case located, the headquarters.
Prabhupāda: I went somewhere. That is also international. In Geneva, I think. Is there any...?
Doctor: Geneva is another headquarters of the, of the United Nations. New York, Geneva. But the court is in the Hague.
Jagadīśa: Yes. But they don't stagger it.
Hari-śauri: They don't stagger the course, yes. See, if he arranges with, say, like...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Courses start every Monday.
Hari-śauri: Then they'll advertise that there's a course starting every Monday and finishing every Sunday, like that. And then they'll book in accordance so that they'll arrive on a Monday and they'll drive out on Sunday night or...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But what is the difficulty? He is... On Monday he is hearing in one room, and Tuesday another room, and Thursday another room. So where is the difficulty?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, this way we have to reserve seven rooms.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But this way, if we have courses Monday to Sunday, we can have one big hall, just keep one hall for yoga class.
Prabhupāda: I mean you cannot give two kinds of classes in one room. That is not possible. That is nonsense. Even if you have got one student, he must be in that particular class. You cannot hold all the classes in one room, no, you have to... No, for seven days you have to give seven rooms, even there is one student.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if it is the same class... It's not going to be a different class.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Different verses we shall explain. It is different class.
| Page Title: | Arrive (Conversations 1967 - 1976) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 20 of Apr, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=81, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 81 |