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Another body (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is that empirical fact?

Satsvarūpa: That after you die, you take another body.

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, why, how the baby is becoming a boy? This is a fact. How a baby is becoming a child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, a young man is becoming middle aged? Does it mean... Is it a particular type of religious system? Why this nonsense? What kind of intelligent person they are? It is a fact. Now we come to the old age. So I have come to the point of old age body after so many stages. Then where is the next? The next is tathā dehāntara: he'll get another body. This is very common sense.

Madhudviṣa: They won't accept that.

Prabhupāda: That means a rascal. Why should you not...? You answer, then what is next?

Madhudviṣa: They will say he is finished.

Prabhupāda: No, how it can be finished? How it can be finished? If you have come stage by stage by stage... It is finished to your eyes. Just like the sunshine is there. "In the evening there will be no more sun; it is finished." What is this nonsense? Is it finished? A rascal may say it is finished.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then what is that life? That is the question. That life is soul. You have to accept. (break) ...car stop. Some machine broken. As soon as the machine is placed, now the motor car is fit for running, but not for the machine, but for the driver. When the driver is not there, you cannot create or purchase a driver. That is not possible. You can repair the machine, but without driver the machine will not run. So why they should be blind about this fact? What is this knowledge, advancement of knowledge? The body is created. If it is accepted-body is created by these material elements—now create another body. Just like dollmakers make a body, you also make a body, very beautiful woman, and give it life. Why they cannot do it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But even accepting that the soul is the living force, they may say that "Well, we're living in this material world and we have to deal with matter, so what is the importance of all this knowledge?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They may say that "We're living in the material world in spite of this knowledge, so we have to deal with material circumstances."

Prabhupāda: But you do not like to die. Why do you die with your material knowledge? Nobody wants to die but why you die? Then where is your material knowledge. You do not like to be old man. Where is your material knowledge that you can stop old age? Then you have to accept that your material knowledge is not perfect. Why you are so much proud of this false knowledge? Unnecessarily.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (1): Sir, most of your disciples have their heads shaven.

Prabhupāda: But if you admit this, that after this life you have to accept another body.... Do you accept this? Eh?

Reporter (1): I do, sir.

Prabhupāda: Then that body offered to you, is it in your hand? Suppose the next life you are offered a pig's body. Can you say, "No, no, I don't want it"? That is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Reporter (1): But how to give up, sir?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Reporter (1): How to give up.

Prabhupāda: What is give up?

Reporter (1): How to give up this tea and coffee to which we are so much habituated?

Prabhupāda: That they have given up.

Devotee (2): Join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Just see the example, how they are.... ask them.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: In the water, life there is; in the air, in.... That is another thing. But life is different from the water. That is our proposal. (break) They are attracted by these varieties of material things, and when time comes he's put into death. Everything is moved from his sight, aside, and he accepts a body of a dog. (break) To accept by compulsion a type of body according to his activities, that he does not.... Now, that big, big minister, Pandit Jawaharlal, he spent so much time and energy for creating this. Now, if after death he has become a dog, then where is the benefit? You cannot say that he has not become a dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept another body, and what kind of body one has to accept, who will say? The.... His work, what he has done, that will take.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Cyavana: And when you asked him to join us, he said, "I cannot do it."

Prabhupāda: No, no, join or not join.... I mean to say that if I see that somebody has become dog next life, you cannot say not, he has not become a dog. You have no proof. (break) ...create a kingdom that you'll not be allowed to stay there in your kingdom, and by your action you have to accept another body. And what kind of body you are going to accept, you do not know. Therefore they deny next birth.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just amazing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how the eternal spirit soul can become so implicated in this material world.

Prabhupāda: Implicated by desires. We are desiring always, constantly. So the desire makes your next body. Every living entity in this material world is desiring how to enjoy. What is your question? Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How the eternal spirit soul becomes so completely absorbed that he completely forgets about the future and simply he becomes absorbed in some temporary sense gratification.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: And if they chant, gradually they'll be purified. (chants japa) (break) ...you take another body, you will greet.... This philosophy does not appeal to the Westerners. Eh? I think so. "Oh, what nonsense this is, speaking?" Eh? Do they not think like that?

Guru-kṛpā: Yes, they do.

Prabhupāda: But that is the actual fact.

Devotee (1): This philosophy's alien to everything they heard, so it's different than everything they heard.

Prabhupāda: No, no, the.... A fact is that. Why it is alien?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Western religions have taught that whatever you do in this lifetime will determine whether you go to heaven or hell, and there's no second chance.

Prabhupāda: So.... So they are not afraid of going to hell? There are two alternatives, either heaven or hell. But if he's going to hell?

Guru-kṛpā: That's why they have confession.

Prabhupāda: Oh, finished everything.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Well, Christian religion.... We are not talking of religion. We are talking of science, fact. When I say that "You are young man. You'll become old man," either you are Christian or Hindu, Muslim, this is a fact. So don't bring in "The Christian believe this" or "Hindu believe this." Fact is fact. A child becomes a boy—a Christian believes; a Hindu believes; a Muslim believes. Everyone believes. So we are talking of the science. The child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, young man becomes old man, and the old man, when this body becomes rotten, he accepts another body. So this is applicable for Bible or Christian or this or that, everyone.

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then you entered a matter, material body created by your father and mother. Then you grew. Then, when you were sufficiently grown, then you have come out. Then again grew, again grow, again grow. Again it becomes old. You give up this body, in the same way again enter another mother's body, again develop another body. This science has to be understood, how it is going on. And that is Bhagavad-gītā.

Brian Singer: And in the beginning of time of the soul?

Prabhupāda: Why...? There is no beginning. Beginning of the body.

Brian Singer: No, I don't want to know about the beginning of the body. I can understand. I want to know about the beginning of the soul.

Prabhupāda: The soul is already there. Soul is already.... Just like this room was already there. Now I have entered. And again I give up this room; I go to another room. Like that. Not that this room becomes another room, room. If I have to go to another room, I have to give up this room. I have to go another room. So I am the same. I am changing different rooms, different body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youthhood to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man. Yet the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. This individual soul finally changes the body at death and transmigrates to another body. And since it is sure to have another body..."

Prabhupāda: The example is already given: The child is transmigrating to the boy's body. Already given. Similarly.... Go on.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "And since it is sure to have another body in the next birth, either material or spiritual, there is no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death, neither for Bhīṣma nor for Droṇa, for whom he was so much concerned. Rather he should rejoice for their changing bodies from old to new ones, thereby rejuvenating their energy. Such changes of body account..."

Prabhupāda: Now, suppose I am old man. If by some medical process, if I am given a young man's body to be more enthusiastic for working, is it not benefit for me? Similarly, in old age, when the body is changed, he gets another new body. That is a profit. There is no loss. The old body, it cannot work nicely. It cannot move nicely. Just old car.... If your old car is changed into new car, will you not accept it? So it is just like machine, car.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: He enters another body. Suppose if by force I get you out of this room, then you enter another room. That's all. But this is illegal, that you are living in this room.... By force if I get you out, that is illegal. Then I have to await for the punishment, "Why you have driven out this?" So similarly, although soul is immortal, but taking the soul is immortal, you cannot cut anyone's throat. He has got a right to live in that body for some time by the ordained order of the Supreme. I cannot get you out by force. That is sinful. By nature's way, when he gives up this body, that's all right. But I cannot force the soul to go out of this body by killing. That is sinful.

Brian Singer: How do.... In the Gītā, Bhagavad-gītā, there was a problem to understand when a person was told by Kṛṣṇa to fight.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is.... That.... That we shall discuss. First of all you understand that you are not this body.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (4): That's what.... We agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like you are young man. You had a body of a child. That child's body.... You remember that you had a body of a child, but that body is no longer existing. But you remember; therefore you, the owner of the body, is existing. Otherwise how do you remember, "I had a body like, like this," measurement? But that body is no longer existing, so you are remembering. So you are the owner of the body. Just like you have now black coat. Say after two days you may put on another color coat, but you remember that "I was putting on one black coat on that day." So you are existing; the coat is changed. Similarly, the soul is existing; the body is changed. Therefore it is natural that I am old man. When I change this body, I get another body. This is resurrection, if you say.

Guest (3): I believe that, yes. That's what we believe put in a philosophical way.

Prabhupāda: It is not belief, it is fact. You believe or not believe, it will take place.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, we are not dying. We remain. But we simply accept another body. So this is a great botheration. But people are in ignorance.

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Our point is that we are going to live in the future. So if, becoming modern, we forget our future, then what is the use of becoming modernized? Better remain primitive. The business is that in future also we shall exist. If we do not know how we shall exist—either I shall exist as a cat, as a dog, or a tree, or a demigod, or as associate of Kṛṣṇa.... If I do not know.... On account of being modernized, if I remain in darkness about my future, so it is better to remain primitive. What is the use of becoming modernized and forget myself and my future? Becoming modernized, if I become dog in future, so what is the use of modernized? The real business is that I shall take care of my future. Especially in the human form of body. Cats and dogs, they do not know about future. If I know there is future, I have a future.... This is also said by Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "In future." Not this body, another body. So is it not my first business, to prepare what is my future body? That is my first business? Or to drink R.C. (Royal Crown?) my first business? Just see. By drinking R.C. if I, next life I become a dog, then what is the use of modernized life? And if we, by remaining in primitive state, we can produce Vyāsadeva, oh, it is better. But the fools have no sense. Suppose if I go to some place for some business, and going there, to select my hotel, which hotel I shall enter, I remain busy to find out the hotel, and I forget the business for which I have gone there, then am I not madman? A human life is meant for deciding his future. If we do not care for the future, and if I want to become modernized from primitive life, is that very good inclination? Real business forgotten, but I am busy with modernized life.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal. Up till now, nobody was able to explain—simply vague. How we can accept these vague explanation as scientist? And daily changing, every year new theories. And I have to accept you scientist? Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) five thousand years ago. It was known very well, and it is going on. That is science. You cannot give any solution, you are changing your ideas and theories every year, and we have to accept you as scientist? (break) ...speaking something, and I have to accept him as scientist? Madman, crazy fellow, saying something today, saying something other next day.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Well, when one is accustomed, then he thinks it is enjoyment.

Hari-śauri: Oh, and then he goes into another body to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: They're going to become fish. Now they are being trained up how to become fish. So after this body is finished, they'll take a body of fish. When one becomes fish he doesn't know that this is punishment. He says that it is very nice. Concession by māyā, that he's put into suffering, but he'll think that "I am enjoying." This is mercy of māyā. (break)...anesthetic in surgical operation. Surgical operation, that is suffering, but if you apply some anesthetic, you do not perceive. It is like that.

Devotee (2): ...solution for this?

Prabhupāda: Sufficient chanting. That's all. Kirtanad eva kṛṣṇaśya mukta sanga param vrajet (SB 12.3.51).

Devotee (4): In the fish body will he have to suffer for all his other sinful activities also?

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of suffering, to become fish, and then millions and millions of years he has to evolve himself to different life. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Bharadvāja: The life symptoms are maintained in the body still?

Prabhupāda: No, life symptoms, there is not. The body's fit; therefore, he comes back again. When the body is not fit, he enters another body. Just like your car you leave. We have come here. Now the car is all right; we go. If it is useless, we don't go. We take another.

Bharadvāja: The body is breathing.

Hṛdayānanda: That is like leaving the motor running.

Prabhupāda: They, unless the seer returns back, the body will lie down. That is death. The seer no more comes back. Then it is dead.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, sometimes a man dies in his sleep.

Prabhupāda: It is dead.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it actually Kṛṣṇa who's maintaining the life in the body then? The life of the body is maintained by Kṛṣṇa or by the individual jīva?

Prabhupāda: No, by Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property. You are thinking, "It is mine." Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I am the proprietor of this body, but another body is there. He is the proprietor of all the bodies. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. The landlord, he's the proprietor. You are occupier, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: Oh. So the Lord in the heart is keeping that body for that jīva, so that when he's finished dreaming he comes back to it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: It's actually the Lord that's keeping it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is observation. That is, a child is growing to another body. So the soul of the child is transferred to another body. What more proof he wants?

Rāmeśvara: There's no visible evidence of the soul.

Prabhupāda: This is visible. Your child, a baby, is on the lap, and after one year, he has got a different body. The old, the old body, on the lap, is finished. Now he is walking. It is another body. Why it is not visible?

Rāmeśvara: They say all matter goes through the stage of development and destruction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, this is to be answered, that this child, when he was born he was very small, lying on the lap of the mother. Now he's jumping. Now that body which was lying on the lap of the mother is no more existing. He has got another body which is jumping. But the mother knows that "It is my same child." Therefore the same soul is there; the body has changed.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Deha-yogena dehinām. Sex means one body is being united with another body. Deha-yogena dehinām. That is enjoyment. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "These things are available anywhere, without any endeavor. It can be available anywhere." Read it.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Sarvatra labhyate.

Prabhupāda: Sarvatra labhyate. Sarvatra means every form of life, in every place, either in the higher planetary or lower planetary or this, everywhere, sarvatra. Hmm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Sarvatra labhyate daivād.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Daivāt. Daivāt means "by the superior arrangement." Superior arrangement... One has become human being, one has become cat, one has become dog, one has become demigod, one has become worm of the stool-daiva-yogena, by the arrangement of the supreme controller. But the material happiness is the same everywhere. Either one is worm in the stool or he is king in the heaven, the standard happiness is the same. Then?

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Arnold Weiss: Or could the prior life also be human life?

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and you are one of them now, as you, as soul, you are the same; the body is changed. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said in the Second Chapter that "Arjuna, you, Me and all these persons who are assembled here, they existed in their previous lives, they are now existing, and they'll continue to exist." So our life is eternal. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This living entity, soul, is never born, neither he dies. It is simply change of body. Just like you just took this sweater. That means you are there, and you may give up the sweater again. So your body is changing like dress, but you are the same. So your... In previous... Just like now we are elderly gentleman, but we were a child. That's a fact. At that time the body was different. You are a young man; the body was different. And again you'll become old man like me, your body will be different. So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

So dehāntara-prāptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. A child may not understand that there is, after his childhood body, there is another body, boyhood body or youthful body. He may not understand. But that is the fact. If the child says, "There is no more body. This is the final body," that is not the fact. He is going to get another body which is boy's body, young man's body, old man's body. Similarly, you may believe or not believe, you are going to get another body. The proof is that you have no more the child's body; you have got a different body. The common sense reasoning.

Jay Warner: That is true. But the difficulty for me is that although my spirit wants to believe in transmigration, the scientific upbringing that was inculcated in me from a child has a hard time...

Prabhupāda: What is that scientific?

Jay Warner: Through empirical evidence, through evidence...

Prabhupāda: This is evidence. I ask you to show me your childhood body. Where it is? Can you show? That is finished. So if the childhood body finished, you get another body, boyhood body. Similarly, the conclusion should be that after this body—I am old man; it will be finished—then I'll get another body.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now the point is that you are going to get another body. That's a fact.

Richard: How do you know that?

Prabhupāda: Now what kind of...? This is a fact, just like you have got already another body. Where is that child's body, where is that boy's body? That is finished. This is the proof.

Richard: But I'm still alive.

Prabhupāda: Alive, you are always alive.

Richard: Physically alive.

Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: But material, that is temporary. This body, your body, my body, anyone's body, that is temporary. It will not stay. It has taken birth at a certain date, it will endure for certain years, and then it will be finished. But the spirit, that will continue. It will accept another body. Just like we are accepting, we are giving up our body, childhood body, accepting the body of a boy, then giving up the boyhood body, accepting the body of a young man. Similarly, this body.... Just like I am an old man. This will be finished, and I will accept another body. So the spirit soul is eternal, and the body is temporary. So we are taking care of the body very much. That is also required. But what about the spirit soul? This education is lacking.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

"As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

George Gullen: These are difficult words to understand, but I appreciate them.

Prabhupāda: Therefore dhīra.... Dhīras tatra, dhīra means sober gentleman. Dhīra. Dhīra means gentleman. So if one does not understand this simple truth, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of learned scholar. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. That means every gentleman must have this education. And what is the use? What is the meaning of dhīra?

Hari-śauri: Sober.

Satsvarūpa: Learned.

Prabhupāda: That is gentleman. So one who does not understand this philosophy of life is not fit to be addressed as gentleman. It is commonsense knowledge.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because, I have got this life, you have got this life, so we shall give up this body, we have to accept another body. We have to enter again in the womb of the mother, and packed up for so many months. And nowadays there's a risk of losing life also. The mother is killing child.

Scheverman: There's an area hopefully where we might be able to cooperate, this area of slaughter, senseless slaughter.

Prabhupāda: So many things. It is going on. So unless there is first-class man, who will guide them?

Kern: I think you ought to eliminate the second-class man who are soldiers. If you're training a man to be a soldier, he wants to fight.

Prabhupāda: That's all right; fighting is also required. When there is enemy, we are not discarding fighting. Fighting there will be. So long we are in the material world, there will be disagreement and there will be fight. You cannot stop it; that is not possible. So a class of men, they should be trained up fighting. A class of men, they should be trained up for teaching. A class of men for producing food. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). There are so many things. If you take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement cooperatively, it will be very, very good for the whole human society. And if your America takes up this call very seriously, others will follow.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Changed, or another body you have got. Change means another body. If you dress your child, you get another.(?) So it is simple truth. So you have got another body or another dress, but you are still living. This simple truth they cannot understand, and they are advanced in education.

Kathy Kerr: Does that mean then that once the immediate corporal body is dead, the one that you have...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to conclude.... This is, what is called, logic, that my, I have changed my body, still I am living. Therefore when I change this body, I shall live. This is the logic.

Kathy Kerr: Does your spiritual body keep the same training that you...

Prabhupāda: Same, that is another.... Just like you are in different type of dress, I am in different type of dress, that is another thing. Dress may be changed in different types, but I, the owner of the dress, is the same. Now a person, the same person, when he's dressed as a high-court judge, he's dealing differently in the high-court. And the same person, after giving up his garment of high-court judge, he talks with the wife and children in a different way, talking. The wife does not address him, "My lord." The wife calls, Mr. John. "John, why you are doing this?" She has no respect, as the respect he gets in the court. Man is the same, circumstance is different.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The problem is that we are suffering in this material world life after life, and our aim is how to again go back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are showing some mysticism. Stop death. Then I shall see your mysticism. What is this nonsense mysticism? Can you stop death? Is it possible? Then what is the meaning of this mysticism? All bogus. My problem is that I am accepting one body and suffering, because as soon as I get this material body, I have to suffer. Then I am creating another body. I die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And again begins another chapter. In this way, from this grass life to the demigods, I am simply changing body and dying and taking birth. This is my problem. So what mysticism will do? But that they do not know, what is the problem. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is your problem. You are repeatedly taking birth and dying, and so long you are living there are so many troubles. Jarā-vyādhi. Especially old age and disease. So this is the problem. What mysticism will help you? Will the mysticism stop your birth, death, old age and disease? Then that is mysticism. Otherwise, what is the use of such nonsense things. (break) ...misleading from the real path. They do not know what is the aim of life, what is the problem of life. They create some mysticism, and some rascal people are after them. That's all. "Here is mystic."

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now suppose these electric lights. So, crude form of light, we grow some castor seed, everything from the earth. This also you are getting from earth, petroleum, and running on machine, and electricity is generated. But really you are getting the impetus from the earth. As soon as the petroleum supply is stopped, everything stopped. But for this purpose you have to search out petroleum from the middle of ocean, boring. Therefore it is ugra-karma. The purpose is that you grow some castor seed, press it, get oil, put in any pot, and one wick, the light is there. So even understanding that you have improved the lighting system, but that is not the only necessity of my life. But to improve from the castor seed lamp, castor oil lamp, to this electricity, you have to work so hard. You have to go to the middle of ocean and drill it and get out petroleum and... In this way your real business of life is finished. The energy and the intelligence you got for your self-realization or your, this precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various species of life, this is your problem, and this was to be solved in human life, you have got advanced intelligence, but that intelligence is utilized from castor seed lamp to the electric lamp. That's all. Just try to understand. What is that improvement? And for this improving from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real business. You lost yourself. This civilization is going on. This is called māyā. For some fictitious happiness you lose your whole purpose of life. It is difficult to understand, but the fact is there. But you are under the control of nature, you have to give up this body. All right, you make very nice arrangement to live here, nature will not allow you to live. You must die. And after death you are going to get another body. So in this body, working for high grade electricity lamp, you work so hard, have got your own business, and next life by the laws of nature, if you get the body of a dog, then what is the benefit? That you cannot check. What is the answer?

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...

Kulaśekhara: I remember once when we were staying at John Lennon's estate, you said to me...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kulaśekhara: At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.

Prabhupāda: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tathā dehāntara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact. Huh? Their education is so advanced. (laughter) Therefore mūḍha, the word is used. So-called education keeps them as an ass. Cannot understand the simple truth. So everyone is getting milk? How much?

Kīrtanānanda: As much as they want.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just see. I'm immediately going to become a dog, and I have to wait for millions of years. Just see. This is their nonsense. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), as soon as you give up this body, you get another body. The greatest scientist, Kṛṣṇa, says. And he says "Wait for millions of years." So shall I take Kṛṣṇa or the scientist? Kṛṣṇa says "Immediately," and you haven't got to wait for millions of years for a boy to become a young man. It takes few years. Does it require millions of years for a boy to grow as young man? By nature's way, it is immediately, a few years. Every moment, the body is changing. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Anyway, fight with this ignorance. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means fighting with ignorance. That's it. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). What is the next verse? You read it? That is very interesting chapter. You read the purport.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Goes to another body. Dehāntara. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). If you do not allow him to this body, he goes to another body. Just like if you drive me from this apartment, I must go somewhere. I must find out another apartment. It is not that I am finished. You force me to go out of this apartment. So I go to a friend's house or anywhere, I must go.

Devotee (1): Would that also be due to that soul's karma, that he has gone from being aborted on to another body?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily, but you create a karma. You are responsible for that.

Hari-śauri: So it's not necessarily that he's receiving some sinful reaction from past work that he's not allowed to enter.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you are responsible for that. Because you are driving me from this apartment by force. Actually, in a higher sense, that is accepted, that he was to be driven away. But because you are driving, you are responsible for that.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can bring up. This is the position. Just like there are apartments are already there. Sometimes I am coming here, sometimes going there, but this is the position. I'm not fixed up. Similarly, living entity, as soon as he changes his mind, the apartment is ready. Here is your position. Again he changes, "Here, here is your position." They are already there. Not that for him especially being created. The species are already there. As soon as he fixes himself up particular species, he's transferred, daiva-netreṇa karmaṇā. He gets a similar body, "Come on, here, take this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). These are explained. So he's transmigrating, he's not fixed up. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He gets, by his desire, he gets a particular body. Then after some time he changes to another body.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no pain. It is painful in the beginning, but... Everything. If you take some medicine, it is bitter, it is painful, but if it helps to cure disease, we must take it. "Because the medicine is bitter, I'll not take it." That is not sense. If you want to be cured from the disease, even the medicine is bitter, you must take. That is tapasya. Tapasya means things we are going to accept may be not very pleasing, but still we have to do it. That is tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We take bitter medicine just to cure our existence. Similarly, at the present moment, our existence is impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease on account of impure existence. Otherwise, we are spirit soul, we are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we are not in eternal existence, we are temporary existence. We have got this body, it will be finished. Then we have to accept another body, tatha dehāntara praptir. Then again you live in that body for some time, and again the body is finished. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So this is going on. This is impure stage of our existence. So we have to purify it. Therefore to purify it tapasya required. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). The tapasya required. That tapasya has to be given lesson, trained up. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). That is brahmacārī system, to understand the value of life. These things are lacking in the present civilization, but it is essential. Without this, there is no meaning of human life. Then it is cats' and dogs' life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, I was discussing. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planetary system where the devas, the demigods live. Their duration of life is very, very big. Our six months is equal to one day there. Such ten thousands of years they live. But they die. It is not permanent. But the duration of life is very big, the standard of life is very high. These are the advantages. But there is death, old age, disease; birth, death, old age and disease. But if you transfer yourself in the spiritual kingdom, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then you don't get any more material birth there. That is because we are eternal, we living entities. We do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After giving up this body we do not die actually; we accept another body.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: You believe you can transmit that to other planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body. Some of them are low grade, some of them are high grade. That depends on our association with the modes of nature. Nature's work is going on. Just like if we contaminate some particular germs of disease, that disease will develop and we have to suffer. Similarly, by our contamination or association with the guṇa, qualities of nature... There are three qualities, goodness, passion and ignorance. So we have to know how to associate. If we associate with the goodness, then we are elevated to the higher planetary system, deva. And if we associate with passion, then in the middle, just like human being. And if we associate with ignorance, then go down like animal, trees, plants, like that.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Body, that I have explained, that you are associating with some modes of material nature. So according to that association, you'll get next body. Just like, I have already explained.

Bill Sauer: Is that immediately after one dies you transfer to another body, or later?

Prabhupāda: Yes, body is changing every moment. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Every body... Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, boy is changing his body to youthhood, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The young man is becoming old man. Similarly, when the body is no more endurable, then you get another body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This body is being destroyed, we are not destroyed. We living entities, we are nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. We are eternal. The proof is given that the child is growing, getting the boy's body. That means the living entity is there, he has changed bodies. When a child is grown to become a boy, the father, mother do not think that "My child is no more existing." He knows "My child is existing, but in a different body." This is common sense. So we shall exist, we existed in the past, we are existing now and we shall exist in the future, but in a different body.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Davis: And the spirit would not necessarily have the ability to point and say "I used to be in that body or that body or that."

Prabhupāda: No, that he forgets. Death means forgetfulness. Just like accepting that I was existing in previous life, but now I do not remember. This is death. But I am existing, that's a fact. The same example. Everyone knows that he was existing as a child, he was existing as a young man. So because it is short period, I remember, but when the body is completely changed, the atmosphere is completely changed, we forget. But actually I exist continually. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the authoritative statement, that I am not annihilated on account of my body being annihilated. So they bury the body or giving some name, some tomb, that is the business of my relatives, my friends, my family members. But as I am, I am aloof from this. I have accepted another body. And then begin my life in a different way. So people do not try to understand this science, how it is happening. That is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā very carefully, we can understand the philosophy of life correctly.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is a spiritual movement, and at the present moment people are more interested with material improvement, but our real interest is... Not only our, every human being's interest should be for spiritual upliftment. Just like our body is there, and within the body I am the spirit soul, also I am there. So we are taking care of the body but not of the spirit soul. So the nature's law is that a spirit soul, changing in different position of the body, as we experience in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, after giving up this body, we'll have to accept another body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We do not know what kind of body we are going to accept according to our activities and mentality. At the time of death the mentality will ascertain what kind of body we are going to get next. So these things are completely not discussed, neither they have any knowledge. So at the present moment the human civilization is a very risky civilization, so in order to save them from this state of ignorance, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. It is not a sectarian religious movement, faith or sentiment. It is actually scientific movement. Here are many scientists present. They are also taking very seriously about this movement. So we invite all important men to contact us and try to understand the basic principle of this movement, how to elevate the human society to the proper standard of life and become peaceful in this life as well as in the next life.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: There was one thing I was wondering a little bit. Is the possibility of..., is it possible of making some experiments which would tend to indicate that life is not material? And this might be appealing to some of the people with scientific education, because they are used to such things, experiments.

Prabhupāda: No, experiment is there. Just like in... Hindus, we burn the body into ashes. How the soul is transmigrating? This is scientific experiment. The Bhagavad-gītā says nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Everyone is seeing the body is burned into ashes, but still, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He's going to another body. How it is going? So the soul is not burned.

Rūpānuga: We were having a meeting with the other scientists, and they were challenging you. They were saying, "Show us one experiment. Show us one experiment!" That's the way they are.

Prabhupāda: There are so many experiments.

Sadāpūta: We were wondering... We knew that, for example, Jagadisha Chandra Bose did some experiments indicating plants having consciousness. We were wondering if some things of that kind might be of some use.

Prabhupāda: So in the Calcutta there is Bose Institute, you can go and see. They have got all machine, how the plants are feeling. Everything is there.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man. And the same soul again will go in the body of an old man. And the same soul, when the body of old man is finished, then he enters another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature. They are educated in animalistic life. As the dog is thinking "I am dog," and barking, similarly, if a person thinks "I am Indian" or "I am American," so there's not much difference between the dog and the man. The man must think otherwise, that "I am not this body," then the civilization, human civilization, begins. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unfortunately, there is no education.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. "The teachings that I am giving, if one is not faithful to accept it, the result will be aprāpya mām, he'll never get Me, and he'll remain in the cycle of birth and death." They do not know it, what is cycle of birth and death, how one can get out of it. Going on. Just like the flies with great force falls in the fire. They are very busy. What is their busy-ness? Falling in the fire. So this is going on. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to save the people who go down by the force, enforced by the laws of material nature in the cycle of birth and death. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "You have to accept another body." But suppose you have got now Indian body; next birth if you get a dog's body, then what is your success? But nature will work. You do not know what is the nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Neither you can check nature's law, so what is the value of your so-called activities, jumping? There's no value.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. A fool man's, fool's belief is different from a learned man's understanding. So if he says that "I believe in it," nature's law is different. Nature will not care whether you believe or not believe. It will work. Just like if you have infected some disease, so you are getting fever. Now if I say "My dear Mr. such and such, now you infected smallpox. Therefore symptoms are there." And if you say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." So will you be protected from the laws of nature? So this is rascal's proposal, "I believe," "I don't believe." You believe or not believe, who cares for you? If you have infected, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Find out. After death you are going to get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So how you can know what kind of body you are going to get? First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it." You believe or not believe, you cannot check the nature's law. But their dull brain cannot understand it that nature's law is very, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), but thinking that they'll conquer over nature. That is their proposal, is not, Bali-mardana? They think that they'll conquer over the laws of nature.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: You can understand at any moment, but it requires little brain. Just like a child is growing or changing the body. A child is becoming a boy and the boy is becoming a young man. The body is changing, but the child cannot understand that his body's changing. Actually, the body is changing. So the young man's body is also changing, and the old man's body. Therefore the conclusion is that the body is changing, and the occupier of the body, it is the same. So on this logic, the occupier being the same and the bodies changing, it is to be concluded that when this body is changed, we get another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

Mike Robinson: So when people die, it is just the physical body that dies.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad-gita: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of education, that you are a spirit soul. Because you are spirit soul you are changing bodies. This is the understanding, beginning A-B-C-D. So when the body is finished, annihilated, you are not finished—you get another body. Just like you have got this coat and shirt. If you change tomorrow, you come to me in another shirt or another coat, that means you are not finished. This science has to be understood. Then one can make progress about the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Mike Robinson: I'm beginning to understand. What I'm finding difficult is, for instance, we see on Oxford Street a lot of people who are handing out Hare Kṛṣṇa literature. Now...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the literature, how to convince them about the spiritual life.

Mike Robinson: And you're really not concerned whether or not they join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. One must be.... Our mission is to educate. People are in ignorance. They are living in fool's paradise, that he is his body. Bas. When the body's finished, everything is finished. That is foolishness.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I've got that far. Now if we could go on from there. And then we said, you said that it therefore made a difference in the life after death, how you lived, that there were natural laws that determined that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The process is that the spirit soul is invisible in our material eyes, very small. So after the destruction of this gross body, there is another body, subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. So at the time of death, when finishing this body, mind works. So, according to that process, the mind carries the small spirit soul to another body. Just like the air carries the flavor. Nobody can see wherefrom this rose flavor is coming, but it is being carried by the air, very subtle. You cannot see, but it is being done. Similarly, the soul is very subtle. It is being carried by the mind. According to the mind, he enters into the womb of another mother through the semina of the father, and then he develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be human being, it may be cat, dog or anything.

Mike Robinson: So we will come back in another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, that's when the body is developed, he comes out and his work begins.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):
Prabhupāda: The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins. So they do not know how these subtle laws of material nature is working to give us opportunity to become master according to our idea, false idea. And we are actually suffering, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as trees, sometimes as dog. So the mastership cannot be attained. That is not possible.
Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ...that this body which we are taking so much care, will leave automatically when the time is finished. And I'll have to accept another body. Useless. The body, which I am taking so much care, will leave me. I'll not have to say, "Body, you leave me," but the body will leave me. When my period... Just like the house rented under lease, and as soon as the lease is over you have to vacate that house, or forcibly the house owner will oblige you to vacate. So what is the use of becoming so much attached to the body? What is the answer?

Nava-yauvana: There is no use.

Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Similarly, you have to change this body, another body. The example is given. Why do you think that because it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā it is Hindu belief? They say like that: "This is Hindu belief." What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy. So we should be intelligent enough that if by practicing in this one life I can get next eternal blissful life of knowledge, why shall I deviate? Even if there is some difficulty, let me tolerate, what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given so easy, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be done perfectly. So where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not bluffed.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: They do not understand, or they are not educated that what he will get by these designations. Big, big movement is going on on this designation platform. In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he is supposed to be a great personality, but what is his teaching? He remained in designation, that's all. Feel like Indian and drive away the English. And one designation, you drive away another designation. This is going on. And he took Bhagavad-gītā, he never said "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is going on. Karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa sakale viṣera bandha. This is karma-kāṇḍa. Designation movements. And higher than this karma-kāṇḍa, the mental speculators, jñāna-kāṇḍa. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura (says) both of them viṣera bandha. Pot of poison. If you waste your time in this way, then they will get another body, that's all. Nana yoni bhraman kare kadārya bhakṣana kare, tara janma adha pate yaya. These are simple words but, it contains very, very grave meaning. This is Vaiṣṇava ācārya. Where is Atreya Ṛṣi?
Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You leave this body, you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara prāptir. Just like you have already accepted. When you were a child, this body was not there.

Ali: Does this happen instantly?

Prabhupāda: Not instantly. I mean to say you have changed your body. Similarly, after giving up this body, you'll change to another body. That's a fact.

Ali: And between those gaps, we are sleeping.

Prabhupāda: There is no gap. The nature's law... It is said that just like you are walking, step by step, like this, so when you fix up this step, then you take away this step.

Hari-śauri: Example of a caterpillar, how it moves from one leaf to another.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, when you by nature's law when it is fixed up, you have to accept this body, then you give up this body, and immediately enter into the womb of the mother to prepare another similar body like the mother.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: The eyes may be different. The eyes are there, ears are there, nose is, but it is different. So long we have got these eyes, these ears, this nose, utilize it properly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja...(?) Every birth you'll get a father, mother. Because without father, mother, there is no question of birth. But not in every birth you'll get Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is in this birth. Birth you can have. But to have Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is this birth. So utilize it properly. Janame janame saba pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja... Very nice. That chance you'll not get. You'll get body, you'll get eyes, you'll get ear, you'll get father, you'll get mother, you'll get food, you'll get sex, you'll get defense, everything you'll get. Tathā dehāntara. But not this chance, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja. You'll not get Kṛṣṇa and guru. This is the difference. How nice verse it is. Everything you'll get, but you'll not get this. How nice it is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), another body you'll get. Another body you'll get means you will get all bodily facilities. There is no scarcity between this body and that body. But only scarcity is that in other body you'll not get Kṛṣṇa and guru. We have to remember this.
Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduḥ. Actually that is the..., because he does not know self. (Hindi) Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gītā, self-interest. Kṛṣṇa giving first lesson: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but your action is not like learned." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widows and will become prostitute, and varṇa-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of paṇḍita. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). His body will change and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. (aside:) Ask him not to talk. This is ignorance.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: You may be a fool, you may be rascal, you may be illiterate. But if you do this, immediately Kṛṣṇa recognizes. Kṛṣṇa never said that unless one is a big grammarian, big scientist, big politician, big engineer, big doctor, then I can do it. No. Simply one who does this. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam (Bg 18.68). What is that paramaṁ guhyam? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all nonsense. Surrender to Me." This is paramaṁ guhyam. And they are simply manufacturing nonsense. So the time is very bad, but nature's law is very strict. We may defy it, "There is no God, there is no next birth, there is no nothing." We may say like that, but when death will come, you cannot say anything. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Bas, all your talkings, all your intelligence taken away. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Immediately transferred to another body. Daiva-netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). "No, no, I am Prime Minister!" "No, you must become a dog." Immediately. How can you protest? You cannot protest. You have acted like dog, just become a dog. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Just like your medical science, you have infected the disease, you must suffer disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ, guṇa-saṅgaḥ. There's infection.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. He has to, he has to. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. So we are now put into the material prakṛti, and prakṛti-jān guṇān, we have to accept another body.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

This is the rascaldom. Jaya. Prasādam, you have got? What is the report?

Yaśomatīnandana: We are publishing monthly magazine every month now, one is coming out in a few days for Janmāṣṭamī. We have changed new house, very good house.

Prabhupāda: What is the rent?

Yaśomatīnandana: Land also...

Prabhupāda: No, no, rent.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Fittest means who does not get next a material body. He is fit. He is fit. Because as soon as you get a material body...

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

They are mad, working day and night. Pramatta. And acting just adverse to his interest. So Ṛṣabhadeva says this is not good. You should know that he has already got a body for which he is suffering. Pritar yantra.(?) And again he is creating another body. By his karma he is creating another body. So as soon as you get a material body you'll have to suffer. Either you become a king or a dog. Because you have got this material body you have to suffer. Pritar yantra. So asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body will not exist. But still so long you'll exist in this body you'll suffer. But they have no brain how to solve this, although there is solution. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So paropakāra. So as you have become our life member, try to broadcast the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the meaning of membership.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...the cause of bondage. This body, if the desires are not fulfilled, but the desire is continuing, so to fulfill the desire, Kṛṣṇa will give him chance for another type of body by which he can fulfill. That means he gets another body. Then another desire. (break) ...they're trying to put out the desire, but he is desiring to become liberated. That is another desire. The yogis are trying to concentrate on liberation by practicing yoga. And that is also another desire. In this way, one desire after another, another desire...

Bhavānanda: Then how to get free from those desires?

Prabhupāda: Free means desire should be purified. That means desires should be to render service to the Lord. That is real purification. The example is given, just like gold. There are impurities. That impurities, you cannot cleanse it simply by washing. You have to put into the fire. When it is melted then automatically all the dirty things are gone. His natural position is part and parcel of God, to render service to God. So unless he takes up that thing, there is no question of desirelessness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is demanding, "Surrender." And as soon as he surrenders, then material desires become vanquished. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Otherwise, the... He cannot rectify one desire by another desire. That is not possible. Then it will produce another desire.

Morning Walk -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Devotee (British): They think once you're dead you're dead and that is the end of it. They don't... They think "We'll enjoy now and we shall die and that's the finish." If you say to somebody, "Have you heard about reincarnation?" "I do not believe in this." Many people in the West cannot accept that the soul will transcend into another body, move on or move down. To them it's fantasy and humbug. This is why they are afraid. They are...

Indian man (3): This is same reincarnation. They think that he has gone. I won't be going, so I'll keep everything with me. We attend so many places where people die and we think, "Oh, he is gone but maybe I am not going to go."

Devotee: The ancient Egyptians used to put all their treasures...

Indian man (3): We don't understand that "All right, this is the end." So why not we understand and think in that line? That day you said that by chanting he thinks that he's chanting, maybe other people don't chant. So they don't know that they have to go. They think they are going to survive here only. They don't want to accept that they have to go, I think.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not want death. That I have...

Indian man (3): Yes. But definitely others are going and we won't go also.

Prabhupāda: That means he doesn't want to die. That is a concoction. Other side is that he doesn't want to die. It is the expression of the same sentiment in a different way.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small. And then little bigger body, little bigger body, little bigger body. Now you are full grown young man." So the body is changing, everyone can understand, but I can understand also that "I had so big..., small body and this body." Then body is changing; I am existing. Then where is the difficulty of the transmigration of the soul?

Dr. Kneupper: Many people do accept.

Prabhupāda: But as soon as we say, "Oh, this is Hindu idea"—reject immediately. This is science, and they are taking "Hindu idea."

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: So He answers because Arjuna was disturbed on this battlefield, that "How shall I fight with my relatives. I shall kill them. It is not my duty to kill my brothers or my nephews." He was perplexed. So the answer is given in a suitable way, that "You are thinking of killing the body of your brother. But your brother is not the body. And even if you think that your brother is being killed, so your brother, real, your brother, he will get another body." Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This is the answer. This is self-realization. That "You are very much disturbed on the bodily concepts of life, but your brother is not this body. Even if you so-called killing of your brother, he will live." That is further explained.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: This is all very easy to understand. Mother means from whom the child is coming, is it not? That is mother. Everyone knows. So you see this whole world, wherefrom everything is coming, you see, practically, gross knowledge. I see a plant is coming from the earth. A tree is coming from the earth. And according to evolutionary theory... Not theory, fact. The dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). When his plant life is finished, he takes another body, insect life. So the mother is the earth. That's a fact. I am eating the things which are... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. I am a life. I am taking either grain or I am taking flesh, the material is supplied from the earth. The animal also, he is also eating the grass. That is coming from the earth. The earth is the mother. That is a fact. Now we should be intelligent, that simply mother cannot beget a child. There must be father. So who is that father? The answer is here. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So where is the ignorance?

Indian man: This is Brahman.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can describe like this. Just like if a man is diseased, so the physician imposes upon him some restriction, do and do not. So if by mistake we give up the do not's, then it is useless. He should observe the do not's. Then he'll be cured. And if he does not observe the do not's—whatever he likes, he does—that means his disease is increasing. Therefore it is useless. The real aim of life is how to get out of the clutches of māyā which is forcing me to accept the cycle of birth and death. That is my disease. Therefore tapasya. Tapasya means restricted life, not unrestricted life. So if we do not follow the restricted life, that means I shall continue my disease or increase my disease. The modern civilization, we are teaching how to enjoy this material world to the fullest extent, bhogaiśvarya, sense gratification and for sense gratification, material opulence. But he does not know that he is killing himself. He is aggravating the disease. He has to accept another body. But that he does not know, that he'll have to take birth and die, again the same business. That he does not know. Therefore this civilization is misguided. Yesterday we were reading, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We have to purify our existence. So this aim is missing—how to purify it. Sattva, I am eternal. Now I am existing in a condition, birth and death. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). He does not know his interest. He's thinking, "This is life. Let me enjoy and there is no life after death, and even there is, who cares for it?" This is going on.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: So your impression is that ten minutes or whatever time is not adequate, and unless she prepares her ground for stable, continuous...

Prabhupāda: No, she can... Paripraśna. From scientific point of view, from logic, that is accepted. But if he (she) thinks blindly something, then it is not possible.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānam
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Manuṣya, arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Kṛṣṇa never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehāntara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmaṇā, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, saṅga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-saṅga means that. Tad-yoṣanāt aśu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-saṅga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-saṅga. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-saṅga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, then it is very unfortunate. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, oṁ tat sat. Bhagavān is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavān, so there is no sat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga.

sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa
te karaṇe lāgi more karma bandha phāṅsa

"I given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. That is Vedic injunction. "But I do not care for sat-saṅga." Sat-saṅga chāḍi. You have to take up something after giving up something. So our present position is sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. "I have given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy in asat. The result is I am entangled in karma bandha phāṅsa. According to karma, I am changing my body, and today I am human being and tomorrow I am a dog. And again from dog to another body, another body." This is going on.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now, this, this is fact, that when this body is no more working, the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body. That they cannot see, but it acts. This science they do not know. Seeing is always not competent, material eye. Just like the example is given that flavor is carried by the air. It is being carried, but I cannot see. But it is being carried. That is transmigration of the soul. The soul is carried by the subtle body to another particular body, and according to his karma under superior examination, the soul, a very small particle, one ten-thousandth part of the hair, he is put into the semina of the particular father, and he injects. So the soul takes place in the womb of the mother. She supplies the material to develop the next body. This is the process, transmigration. Then, when the body is complete to come out, then another body works. Another chapter begins: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So this is development.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They... It cannot die. There is no question of death. Simply changing the body.

Hari-śauri: But they didn't actually get to the point of transferral to another body.

Rāmeśvara: No. What's being described in this journal is that a man leaves his gross body, and then he exists in a very subtle state.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is subtle body.

Rāmeśvara: And then he goes back to the same gross body.

Prabhupāda: Not exactly the same, but another. This body is useless. By accident he loses. Mutilated, it cannot be accepted.

Rāmeśvara: But somehow they revive him. Somehow he is revived.

Prabhupāda: Revived means the body was in order.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have to do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human life is denied the advantage of this life. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Simply wasting time by sense gratification, for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛnoti na sādhu manye... (SB 5.5.4). "Oh, this is not civilization." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ: "You are going to get again body. You are suffering so much still. That's your plan? Who is happy who has got a material body? Who is happy? Find out. And still, you are going to get another material body? Is that civilization?" Na sādhu manye. "It is not good. Don't work hard for getting another body." This is Vedic civilization. Na sādhu manye: "Oh, it is not good." Sādhu means good. "Why it is not? We are enjoying." Not enjoying. You are going to get another body. "So what is the harm if I get one more body?" Now, kleśada: "You'll simply suffer as soon as you get body." Kleśada. More material body means kleśada, to be prepared for suffering. That they do not know. They are thinking, "enjoying." This is māyā. He's preparing for another suffering condition and he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is...

Gurukṛpa: Māyā.

Prabhupāda: This is māyā, what is not. He has to work for not to get any more material body, but he's working for that. (end)

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Therefore ekādaśī. One day or two days in the month he should practice fasting, and then he'll be able to conquer over these things. These are all practical. So we should practice ourself and teach others. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And if he thinks that he's quite all right in this material atmosphere, then he's doomed. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti. That means aprāpya mām—without achieving Kṛṣṇa—nivartante—again he goes back-mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3)—the cycle of birth and death. Take one birth, suffer, again take another body, again take another body, another body. There are 400..., eight million four hundred... That's all. Sometimes so-called happiness, he is born as demigod, sometimes as dog, sometimes as insect, sometimes as tree. What is this business? "I am eternal. Why shall I suffer this?" This is sense. They are simply trying how to become a hog, how to become a dog, or how to become a god. God you cannot become. You may have some partial happiness just like the demigods. They have got power. They have got high standard of living. But that does not mean the solution of the problem. Solution of problem means no more birth, no more death. That is solution. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is solution. And if he remains in the birth-and-death cycle, that is not solution of material problem. Who can understand this science? They have accepted birth and death. But birth they do not believe. They think accidentally it grows within the womb, a lump of matter, and at a certain stage there is life. This is their... Do they not think like that?

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: You say you do know what that thing is, so why don't you produce it...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know, but I say it cannot be replaced. I know it. And you are rascal. You say, "It can be replaced. We are trying, after millions of years..." Therefore you have no brain. We say it cannot be produced. It is gone. It has accepted another body. We say like that. We don't say that it can be brought again and then replaced. We don't say that. Therefore we have got a brain. You have no brain. Just like motorcar stops. The driver has gone to another. And if a rascal finds out how it can be run without that driver, then he has no brain. And one who has brain—"Here the driver has gone. Now it cannot be run"—that is brain. You falsely trying. Driver has gone out, and you are trying to run on the car by putting petrol, by putting grease, by utilizing... That means you have no brain. Uselessly you are trying. That means you have no brain. I have got brain. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will your movement give anybody brains?

Prabhupāda: As other things are giving brain. Just like a dull, a dull child is educated and he passes M.A. examination. He becomes very intelligent person by education. This is their education. Even if you have no brain, I can give you brain. So it is not brainwashing; it is brain-giving. But because you are rascal, you'll not accept.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That has to be understood, and therefore He's explaining in so many ways. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This one word, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. He cannot understand it. "The body's finished, everything's finished." These rascal professors. And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20), "Don't think it is finished. It is there." Who will understand it? It requires a special brain. These rascals say, "Now everything's finished. The body's finished." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, no. Not finished." Who will understand this, unless he has got a very good brain? And our education begins from that point. These rascals, when they are disappointed—"Bas, finished"—we begin from there. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. It is there. Where it is? Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) he has taken another body. A man is sleeping; he has taken another body. He's jumping on the tree. How we can see? It's a fact. He has forgotten that "I am on a nice bed," and he's somewhere else. How it is? You see that he is sleeping, that he's not working. But he is working. Where is that brain? And it is a fact. I see the man is sleeping, but he has gone somewhere else. That is our daily experience. You cannot see it, where he has gone. He has gone to the jungle. He's seeing there is a tiger and he's crying, "Tiger! Tiger!" You cannot see. So why he's crying? So how can you see his activities? You have no such eyes.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration. I have explained it. This is the factual. Everyone can experience. I have got a period of remaining in this body. So as soon as this period is finished I get..., I create another body and enter it. And because the period is not finished, although in dream I am getting another body and going to the Himalaya, top, or I'm going to my New York apartment, still, I have to come back because period is not finished. Simple thing. This is transmigration.

Conversation with Italian Woman with Translator -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Past life means... As we are not this body, past life means there was another body; we have forgotten it. Just like at night we dream, "I have gone to some foreign place and talking with some foreigners and so on, so on." But in the morning that situation is changed and we forget everything. Again, at night we forget this body and we dream in another body. Every night we have experience that we forget this body. This is going on.

Translator: She says she's conscious of the relation, karmic relation, with a person that for last life she's having, and right now that person is also present with her in this life.

Prabhupāda: Past life?

Translator: Yes. She's says that four past lives she's having some relations.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is forgotten or...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She says that she's remembered it.

Translator: Yeah. She said she remembers it.

Prabhupāda: If she remembers, that's a special qualification, but generally people forget. It is not astonishing. You can remember, but that is rare, very rare.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: "This Bhagavad-gītā what I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know. It is clearly said. Mām aprāpya: "By not getting Me." "So what is loss if I don't get Kṛṣṇa?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. That you cannot check. You have to die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to accept another body. Then you go on. Why this human form of life should be lost in this way? So at least to try to give this knowledge to the people in general is para-upakāra. This is para-upakāra. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. India can especially do it.
Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: There is no other aim. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, don't do this." So who is giving protection to these rascals who are educated to act sinfully? That is in Bhāgavata. "No, no." Na sādhu manye. "This is not good." "But why not good? Let me enjoy." "No, you will not enjoy. You will create another body for suffering." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). You are already suffering. You have got this body. You are already suffering on account of your past activities. And you are creating again another body for suffering. So it is not good. They do not know. (Hindi) Four-wheel dogs. That is advancement of civilization. The dog is running with four legs, and he is running with four wheels. Dag-dag-dag-dag-dag. Where you are going? And this is their scientific advancement. Competition with dog. Otherwise what they have done? The ant hill, and four-legged wheel. That's all. Four wheel legs. This is animal civilization. Without knowing the aim of life, living in big, big skyscraper building, "I am king." And running like dogs with four wheel car, Mercedes. This is dog civilization. It is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when they take Kṛṣṇa's instructions: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Divide the whole human society into four divisions and let them cooperatively act for the benefit of God. That is civilization. There civilization begins. Otherwise, what is the difference between dog and the human being? There is no difference. The leaders are teaching, "Feel like Indians." As a dog is feeling, "I am bulldog." This is our leaders.
Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. All the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there are persons who are not narādhama. For them there must be. Diamond shop is not for everyone, but there are some persons who can purchase diamonds. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). It is not meant for everyone. So this is India's culture. At least, these men should be conscientious that "Let this Bhagavad-gītā culture be maintained in pure form." There is cultural department government. They are sending dancing party. You see. Real culture. And to make show they will pose themselves as great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So we are making alone a little tiny effort, but it is being appreciated all over the world. That is our encouragement. Our books, our philosophy, our religion, America has accepted: "Yes, it is Indian. Enough." (?) It is not sentiment.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. So long you have to accept another body, you must suffer. Suffering means this body. That Kṛṣṇa says. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Real suffering is here, that you have to take your birth, you have to die, you have to suffer from disease and old age. But your position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Your business is not to take birth and die. But why you are suffering? Nobody wants to die. You must die. Nobody wants to become old man. He must become. So you do not know what is suffering and how to mitigate it. And Kṛṣṇa points out, "This is suffering." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. So temporary... Suppose if there is any boil, and if you... Is that mitigation of suffering, do you think? "Oh, you are suffering?" The surgeon must come and operate and get out this pus and then suffering. So here Kṛṣṇa recommends, "This is mitigation of suffering. Stop your birth, death, old age and disease." So we do not know what is suffering and how to get out. Therefore we have to consult Kṛṣṇa in every step. Then our life will be... This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and try to abide by it. Your suffering will go. Otherwise, simply dog barking will not help.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Kṛṣṇa does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Kṛṣṇa says, "No," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober. These restless rascals, how they will become sober? Suppose a child is restless child, how can you convince him about philosophy? Sober man, cool-headed man, he can be convinced.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Life is within the body, the soul. And because the soul is there, therefore a baby is becoming child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, young man becoming old man, and the old man, when he passes, he gets another body. Very simple thing. As you are changing your body, now you're changing this body—you are there actually—so you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati: (BG 2.13) "Those who are sober, intelligent, they are not disturbed." So if this is the fact, dehāntara-prāpti... After this body you have to accept another body. If you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept... There is no question of acceptance. You'll be forced to accept. It is not that your choice. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. You have to accept one body according to your karma. If you have behaved like a human being, you can get the body of a human being. If you have behaved like a dog, you'll get the body of a dog. And if you have behaved like demigod, you'll get.
Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore this life is preparation for the next life. These are simple truth. But people are in ignorance. They do not know anything. And they're keeping them in ignorance and bluffing them in so many ways. The whole duty, I am going... If I am going to accept another body, then where is the question of my nationalism? If I am eternal... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate na mriyate vā. If I do not take my birth, if I do not die, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), and I'll have to accept another body, then, so long I have got this body, I may be big politician, big philanthropist, but next life, if I am going to be dog, then where is the value of this prime ministership, big, big...? And where is my nation? Where is my country? Where is my family? So things are going on in ignorance. And they are kept in ignorance. And big, big worship, your... Nānuśocanti. This is going on. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for reforming all these nonsense activities. This is sum and... Everyone's kept in ignorance, and being frustrated, they want to make it zero. Where is zero? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). There is no question of zero. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). But the rascal are thinking, "Make it zero," in gross disappointment. But there is life, just hope for a blissful life, for eternal life. And that is really we want to make. And you want to make it zero? Actually it is not zero. You do not know your ignorance. So this rascaldom is going on, and there are many supporters. What can be done? We are trying to reform the society.
Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned...?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). So as we are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? (Hindi) If you have to change your body... Today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: "Let me remain Your servant janmani janmani." Mukti means no more janma. So He doesn't want even mukti. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi. For a devotee, either this life or next life, the business is the same, to serve Kṛṣṇa. So this verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma... (SB 5.5.4). People are mad after sense gratification in different ways, so Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, no, this is not good. You have already obtained a material body as a result of your past karma, and you are suffering." Body means suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). "So you have already got this body, and you are suffering. You are again trying to get another body?" Na sādhu manye: "This is not good." Our whole Vedic civilization is punar janma jayāya, to conquer over punar janma. And here Kṛṣṇa gives the very simple formula, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). If we simply understand what is Kṛṣṇa... And what is Kṛṣṇa, for that purpose, we are writing so many books. The scholars, they are appreciating. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is available very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, then we have got so many books. You can read and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And when you understand kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), then your life is successful. And karmīs are warned, na sādhu manye: "This sense gratification is not good." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This karma means mṛtyu-saṁsāra, again and again. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body.
Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So without this faith, nobody can achieve the association of Kṛṣṇa. There are two things. You become associate of Kṛṣṇa, or you become associate of this material world. So if you do not become associate of Kṛṣṇa, then the next step is this association of material world. And association of material world means accepting one type of body and enjoy or suffer for some time; then you get another body. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Now we have to make our choice, whether you want to stop this material way of life and attain the eternal spiritual life...

mām upetya punar janma
duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
(BG 8.15)

If you get the association of Kṛṣṇa, then you haven't got to come here, this material world. Duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam. Either you take birth in a very rich, aristocratic family, born in the upper planetary system as demigods-Brahmā, Indra, Candra, like that—or you take your birth, an insignificant ant; wherever you are in material body, it is duḥkhālayam. That you cannot avoid. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And you cannot make any compromise that "Never mind it is very much miserable. I shall enjoy." So that also will not be allowed. Aśāśvatam. Your tendency is to live forever.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body..." Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "After this body is finished, another body...," because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed." Therefore He says, ayaṁ dehaḥ: "This body should not be misused like animals," āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is the advice. Ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. He especially mentions, nṛloke: "in the human form of body."

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To approach Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. After many, many births... We are rotating... (break) ...superintendent of this egglike aṇḍa, universe. It is all Brahmā's. And there are innumerable planets. That we can see. So we are wandering in all these places, sometimes down, sometimes up, sometimes in the middle, according to our karma, in different species of life, in different planets, in different position. So we are rotating. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Out of these innumerable living entities who are entrapped with this brahmāṇḍa and janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi... (BG 13.9)." Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Life after life, life after life, they are... That we do not know. This is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. You die, accept another body, another place, another situation, another position. This is going on. Brahmāṇḍa-bhramaṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "In this way, rotating, and in course of our rotation, if we are fortunate enough, then we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite. (aside:) Why you are closing that? Eh? Open it. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān. So to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is meant for persons who are very, very fortunate, kona bhāgyavān. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). When one is very much eager, serious, that "I want to see God..." Nobody's serious. But if one becomes serious, then Kṛṣṇa gives him charge. He sends him to the proper guru. Kṛṣṇa is there within the core of heart of everyone, and if somebody is... (aside:) Let him come. What he is doing? He is not a proper man.
Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I am not going to die. Kīrtir yasya sa jīvati: "One who has done something substantial, he lives forever." He doesn't die. Even in our practical life... Of course, this is material, karma-phala. One has to accept another body according to his karma. But for devotee there is no such thing. He always accepts a body for serving Kṛṣṇa. So there is no karma-phala. (pause)

Rāmeśvara: Last volume of Ninth Canto is at the printer.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: The last volume, it is already at the printer, being printed.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Ninth.

Rāmeśvara: It will be here in about ten days. And the first volume of Tenth Canto, we have just received Chapter Four and Chapter Five, and the artists will be finished in two weeks.

Prabhupāda: Another thing, the Hindi photographic pages, if you send to Los Angeles, the books can be printed there.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can show that their thinking is wrong completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.

Harikeśa: And that all their speculations simply end up in their own death. And at that point they have no idea what will happen next. But they have to take another body. Although they may try to say...

Prabhupāda: They are taking. That example is already there. He finishes his childhood; he accepts boyhood. Why he has left childhood? Finish childhood. Finish. That's all. Why again bother?

Harikeśa: Force of time.

Prabhupāda: That means he is under the control of something higher, but he refutes, tries to avoid. That cannot be avoided. A child must become a boy. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Harikeśa: But the worst thing is that not only are they causing themselves trouble, but they cause it upon everyone else.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Causing everyone else means the same group. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. One who is blind, he can be cheated by another blind man. But one who is not blind, if the blind man wants to cheat him, that "I can help you crossing the room," he will laugh, that "This rascal is blind, and he has offered me to help me. We take this, that if a person is... We know that he is defective. His knowledge is imperfect. What knowledge he will give? Immediately reject him.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals. Animal. The animal even. The so-called scientists, they are no better than the animals. That's all. They cannot understand the very simple thing. Animals cannot know. Otherwise any sane man can understand. (break) As soon as he changes the cloth, it is... No, I can change this cloth. That does not mean... I am the consciousness. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni... They never try to understand this. What is their advance? You are supporting these rascals. That means you do not understand about the soul. Do they not?

Śatadhanya: Yes. Nobody.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is very natural. Just like in a child there is life. But it is not... Consciousness is not developed. That does not mean there is no life. That you can see, daily affair. The same child, when he's grown up or changed body, his activities will change. So where is the difference? Difference—when he was a childish body, the consciousness was not developed, and when he's transferred in another body, his consciousness will develop. This is the point. The ant, there is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's life in any material...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we wanted to avoid that...

Prabhupāda: In the physical combination of atoms is combination of life also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to make a distinction between that life and the matter, especially to the material scientific community, we were thinking of presenting in the manner that matter, though in the spiritual sense there is nothing like matter, but still, there is matter...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no... Matter means matter develops on spirit. Without spirit there is no existence of matter. Just like spirit means consciousness. You see in this finger. Here is consciousness, and little after, there is no consciousness, this nail. But the nail has grown from the skin. So therefore, from consciousness, unconsciousness... Not that from unconsciousness, consciousness.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And next life or this life, rascal...

Yaśodā-nandana: "Because the last change, at death, the last transmigration to another body, because we cannot see according to our scientific experience..."

Prabhupāda: So you die, what you will see? Your eyes are taken away. What you will see? You say, "I die." Then what you will see after death? A dead man has got eyes. Can he see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they say, "How have you seen, that you are telling us what will...?"

Prabhupāda: Seen by intelligence. (break) We are accepting everything like that.

Devotee (3): So they will say, "We accept there is a change of bodies. So then life is simply changing bodies. There is no more than this, simply..."

Prabhupāda: No, there is stoppage of change of body when you...

Devotee (3): How so?

Prabhupāda: How you... How you know? You are a rascal. What do you know? You learn it. You are rascal. What you know? You become intelligent. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You are a rascal. What do you know? The difficulty is that you are rascal; you want to take the position of a learned man. And that is your fault. You do not accept your position, that you are a rascal.

Page Title:Another body (Conv. 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:25 of Sep, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=106, Let=0
No. of Quotes:106