America (Conversations 1977 Jan)

Prabhupāda: At that time in India it was eight thousand rupees only, very strong car.

Trivikrama: From America it came?

Prabhupāda: Yes, American cars were selling during British days, Ford, Buick, Chevrolet. These cars were selling. Dodge. In 1925 I purchased one Buick car, eight thousand rupees.

Dr. Patel: Small cars were everywhere 1700 rupees in 1936-37.

Prabhupāda: And Ford car was very cheap.

Dr. Patel: Thirty-two hundred rupees. V8 Ford cars were sold in Bombay market for thirty-two hundred rupees, three thousand two hundred. Now you send a car for repairs, the bill will be six thousand, seven thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Things have gone high, I was calculating the other day, twenty times.

Dr. Patel: Only Kennedy was the first Catholic to be. Otherwise till Kennedy came, there was no Catholic ever elected. (break) Methodist. Even in material world, he was a fool the way he carried out... (laughing) But sir, one thing: about the freedom of America. I have my hat off that that man could be knocked off by ordinary paper reporter. That would not happen in any other country.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked to take the government.

Dr. Patel: That would not happen in any other country but America, freedom par excellence.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees will take the government.

Dr. Patel: That can be possible because of freedom, essential freedom of that country.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are being checked that "They may not grow." One politician has said that "If they grow like this, in ten years they'll take the government."

Trivikrama: Someone has said that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He said. Some politician has said that "The Hare Kṛṣṇa people are growing so rapid, like epidemic." He has said. "And if they grow like this within ten years they may take our government." He has remarked it.

Dr. Patel: Good for them. The amount of money that has been wasted by America, that much money could have raised the standard of living the whole...

Prabhupāda: Money is no consideration.

Dr. Patel: Apart from that, sir, after all, it is a disease, poverty. If the people are out of poverty, then they will think about... First they'll think about God in the stomach. Then anywhere else.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not the fact.

Trivikrama: Out of poverty, then they'll think about wine and women.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But that is in America, not...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also, all these politicians, they are after woman, meat and money. That's all.

Trivikrama: Intoxication.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One... Who was speaking, that in...? Some gentleman, he was Feroz(?) Gandhi's friend. He went to America, and he was eating beef like anything.

Dr. Patel: Feroz? He was, Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: Not... No, another Indian leader. He's a Marwari brāhmaṇa.

Dr. Patel: Parsee would never eat beef, sir, huh? I heard they are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are eating everything.

Dr. Patel: They don't eat beef.

Prabhupāda: I know. They are eating. They eat everything. I have seen one Parsee here in Bombay. He is chanting and getting one chicken cut throat by the man. And he's cutting. He gave in a paper and he took it away. And he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) Not Hare Kṛṣṇa, but... They have got all their chants. They have got their chanting. And I have seen their kitchen. It is more dirty than the toilet.

Prabhupāda: All right. Even an ant has got.

Dr. Patel: And that means if you... A bigger ant. There are in South America are some ants, you know, big.

Prabhupāda: So that is... That... That gift is given by God to everyone. That does not mean one is Bhagavān.

Jagadīśa: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the cheating of cheats."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Dr. Patel: The greatest number, sir, is being carried out here in Bombay some fifty miles away by this Muktananda Swami. His statue is being worship as, in place of God by...

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is also. Sai Baba is also doing, Satya Sai.

Dr. Patel: They say that they are worshiping the guru as God. And why not as their guru?

Prabhupāda: Rajaneesh. Rajneesh

Prabhupāda: He was up-to-date, English-returned. He was Gandhi's student.

Dr. Patel: These boys make love and marry. And we marry and make love. (laughs) This is the background of Indian womanhood, this religion. That keeps up the sacredness of the Hindu marriage.

Prabhupāda: No, everywhere there is religion, in Europe, America. Church. Church. Marriage was taken in church.

Dr. Patel: The Catholic marriages are indissolvable. They can't remarry. Now they have done it.

Prabhupāda: Now you have also done in India, so many.

Dr. Patel: We have got a government law, that sue the fellow for dissolution. Hindus. Mr. Nehru has done-great service to his community. (japa) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...aerodrome is near.

Dr. Patel: I reach aerodrome from my place in three minutes. And you (indistinct). (discussion of airplanes and helicopters)

Prabhupāda: Chambur, I stayed there for a week. So almost on head, aeroplanes.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We are the number one publisher of religious, philosophical...

Indian (1): Printing and writing attractive, everything is such a nice... That man is attracted, and he goes through the books and writes... (break)

Devotee: So now in America we are slowly starting to understand by Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy what is the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, real purpose of yoga. Unfortunately we are finding in India people have misunderstood Gītā. And...

Indian (1): Misunderstood Gītā. Now even they are not study. You see, there is no study at all. It is an unfortunate thing here. In our educational system, the slave system coming from British regime, still it is not changed. Unfortunately, whatever change we see, that change goes anti-religion. So the present generation is suffering.

Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.

Prabhupāda: Hindu.

Dr. Patel: A religiosity there. Some fellows in America, they talk nonsense about this science: "It's all the chemicals." They believe in what we call that dialectical materialism: It is a material arrangement which produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which governs the material. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the brain is conscious? (break) If you want subsidence of anartha, bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. Anartham upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasyājāna... These rascals, they do not know. Ajānataḥ. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Therefore Vyāsadeva made this sātvata-saṁhitā for these rascals and fools. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The origin of everything.... Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (break) There is a very big.... What is called? Conspiracy against us.

Dr. Patel: Here and America. Yesterday I read about that cutting paper.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagadīśa: Here in India also.

Dr. Patel: What is that conspiracy, sir, in America?

Prabhupāda: They are planning how to stop this movement in so many ways.

Dr. Patel: By some sort of physical force or something like...

Prabhupāda: Not physical, but... What is the idea?

Jagadīśa: Propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Propaganda.

Dr. Patel: The Americans, I mean, always doing like that. There are lot of bad persons.

Prabhupāda: Well, there are good and bad every place. Most of them are... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). This is Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: There is chance of being accepted all over the world. There is now opposition, and some of the politicians, they're of opinion that "This culture, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is spreading like epidemic, and if we do not check, in ten years time they'll take the government."

Guest (1) (Indian man): Of America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) That there is possibility because these young men, they are taking. So everywhere revolution takes place by young men. So if it is actually spreading like epidemic, and young men, they are taking part, so within ten years it is not impossible.

Guest (1): It's a very good idea, then, to follow it. I'm quite serious.

Prabhupāda: And they are democratic. It can pull down even a President like Nixon. So if they like, if the majority becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, they can make Kṛṣṇa conscious government. There is no, I mean to say, wonder in it. So anyway, because these youngsters in the Western countries, both in Europe and America, are taking... And the recent telegram we have received... Just see how many books we have sold. (aside:) Make it little less.

Guest (1): It's coming from New York, but it's the same for all over America.

Prabhupāda: All over the world.

Guest (2): "We offer our sincere congratulations. It is, of course, the hand of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Seventeen lakhs copies of our literature sold in one week.

Guest (1): What is the daily income here? They would be interested to know the daily income for their own selves, daily income for the book sales.

Prabhupāda: Oh, book sale? Five to six lakhs. Now, you can just imagine from the sales.

Guest (1): And how many people it must be going. This magazine is hardly one dollar. In America one rupee. (Hindi?) ...magazine for them.

Prabhupāda: So this is documentary. And the Europeans and..., they are not fools and rascals that they are interested in purchasing other religious book, not their Bible. You see? So it has got very great potency. So under the circumstances, we should now make combined effort that it can be pushed on more organizedly. I am doing now alone with the help of these... But no Indians are coming. This is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: No, there the Hindi is not...

Bhavabhūtī: But here in this side we're going to start to distribute this Hindi Back to Godhead very profusely, just like in America.

Prabhupāda: And what about Gītār Gān?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes. Also that's included. Fifteen thousand BTG's and Gītār Gāns included. The boys are so enthusiastic now...

Prabhupāda: In the boat?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes. On the boat. But even when we came into Calcutta—it was a two-hour train ride—the boys were not simply sitting. They were going from car to car selling books. One boy he sold fifty BTG's just coming from outside of Calcutta to Calcutta. Just two-hour train ride. He was going from car to car, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and he would give them Bengali Back to Godhead. And they are taking very nicely now. All along the Ganga...

Prabhupāda: They know how to... (laughs) It is for them that the movement is being pushed on.

Prabhupāda: Epidemic. So it is a kind of revolution.

Hari-śauri: And it's not just in one place. It's every country our men have been to.

Prabhupāda: Every country. Whole Europe and America. What business they have got to purchase our books in Christmas? They have no business. Why they are purchasing? Huge quantity. I never dreamed even (laughs) that my books would be sold in large quantity.

Hari-śauri: They sold over one million...

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja published a portion of the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Eleven hundred books. Still lying for the last ten years.

Hari-śauri: Bon Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And he's the rectum of... (laughs) He can pass stool very nice. (laughter). There was no second printing. And so many scholars , MA, PhD, and so on, so on, so on. Our Dr. Kapoor wrote some books. It was given to some Benarsi. They first of all took it, then they refused, "No. We cannot publish."

Prabhupāda: I've touched the slaughterhouse, brothel...

Hari-śauri: I just finished reading that Perfection of Yoga. It's an amazing book. Each chapter gradually leads more and more to the ultimate goal.

Prabhupāda: They were my beginning speeches in your country, in America. I was daily speaking in... So Hayagrīva has edited. Hm. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The basic principle of economic development is centered on land and cows."

Prabhupāda: That idea I'm still maintaining. Yes.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are... Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They'll appreciate. One day will come they'll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they invent their theories. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptir, and these rascals says "Once." Just see.

Dr. Patel: The rascals have also realized now that there is a dehāntara-prāptir because the parapsychology has proved beyond doubt so many examples recently, at present, that there is a rebirth. People who are reborn and know their past births. They have recognized their parents, their places and secret things also. There was a patient in Rajastan. One was in Northwest India. There was one in South America. They were all published in medical bulletins.

Gurudāsa: People accept them?

Dr. Patel: Gradually.

Prabhupāda: Medical science do not accept the soul. Then how it is possible, next birth?

Dr. Patel: They have to accept. In the teaching of physiology, what we call certain vital forces which we don't understand, they are, this is nothing but God there. What is vital force? What is vital force? It's the soul, sir.

Prabhupāda: Vague idea. Not clear.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen his picture.

Dr. Patel: His behavior was that of a sādhu.

Gurudāsa: Simple. He lived simply.

Dr. Patel: Not only simply, but he never worried much about things. When he was asked in Christian university how much money he would want paid when first migrated to America, he said, "What is the standard of living here?" (indistinct)

Trivikrama: But still, the tendency... Kali-yuga means their tendency is away from...

Dr. Patel: It is Kali-yuga for all of us, for the good and the bad.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga means mandāḥ. Mandāḥ-two meaning. One is "slow"; another meaning is "bad." So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). Four times this word used: mandāḥ, sumanda-matayo, manda-bhāgyā.

Dr. Patel: But one thing about Kali-yuga is that by doing small amount of good work or doing little bhakti, it has a greater amount of benefit than you would get otherwise in Satya-yuga, Dvāpara or Treta. Is it not, sir? No...

Prabhupāda: Good work or bad work, you have to enjoy, good or bad.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how Arjuna could marry?

Dr. Patel: Fourth-class civilization. In Naga races there is polyandry, sir. One woman can...

Prabhupāda: Still there are, in Himalayan hills. One woman has got five husbands.

Dr. Patel: Because they have got shortage of men.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the system is there. I think in America also.

Dr. Patel: No, no. America, secret polyandry.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, one woman may have more than one husband. Is it not?

Gurudāsa: Sometimes. Not legally.

Dr. Patel: That is why I said "secret" polyandry. This is official. Some of the Himalayan and Katwa, they... One brother marries and then she becomes the wife of two, three brothers. That is legal.

Prabhupāda: No... In here also the system was if one is childless, husband is dead or could not produce, she can take help of the husband's brothers. Devareṇa sutotpati: with the help of husband's brother to get child.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We do not know.

Rāmeśvara: They say that most people do not know how aggressive we really are. "Most of the families with young people involved with Hare Kṛṣṇa..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...very important letter.

Rāmeśvara: We sent this to all the temples in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And give me one copy. I shall keep.

Rāmeśvara: This is for you.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Rāmeśvara: This is all based on the information received by various parent groups. "These people usually fear physical harm that may come to them and to their children who are in Hare Kṛṣṇa, as well as forcibly permanent separation from their children in Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meaning, liberation. This is liberation, forcely separating from māyā. That they do not know. māyām etaṁ taranti te. Yes.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, we can place a counter psychiatrist and counter... Just like Cox's statement.

Rāmeśvara: There is one law in America where they don't even give you a chance to defend. They immediately give the parents the guardianship. Now, this law was written to protect old people, and they are cheating and using the law against us. Sometimes old people become senile, and, let's say, they'll do harmful things. They may give away their money. They may do things in a state of...

Prabhupāda: But we have got parents' organization also.

Rāmeśvara: Now we do. Anyway, they're using this law against us.

Prabhupāda: That they will do. They will do their best. We have to do our best. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "This would enable the court to remove the young person from the temple for medical examination and evaluation by cult-knowledgeable psychiatrists and psychologists." In other words, deprogramming. "This is the best thing to do. The media would report it..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. But one psyciatrist may give one verdict, but other psychiatrist may give another verdict. Then how the court will decide?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes... One of the general charges they make against all the different religious groups in America is that the leader is actually making a lot of profit for himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Like this Reverend Moon, he lives in a very, very big house, and he has a big car. And this Guru Maharaj-ji, he has his own airplane.

Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaj-ji has got?

Rāmeśvara: He had his own airplane, which they had to sell.

Hari-śauri: That fat boy, Guru Maharaj-ji.

Prabhupāda: No, he had. So what is his position now?

Rāmeśvara: His family has called him a false guru. So there's a slip.

Prabhupāda: His mother.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Then they say, "The next best thing to do after you get the deprogramming is to hold a press conference to explain all the reasons that there is a need for criminal conviction of destructive cult leaders. Have ex-victims, especially of Hare Kṛṣṇa, present. The truth of their personal experiences carry great weight with reporters. It is now necessary to awaken America to how widespread..."

Prabhupāda: I... In the beginning... I have told many times when I first went that "If I say these prohibitions, who will accept?" And now it has taken a shape, it has become a problem throughout the country. I was thinking, "Who will hear me? As soon as I'll say this, they'll say, 'Go home.' " But by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement it has become a problem. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. It has become a problem for them; it is success for me. Yes. I presented something which is now a problem for them.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So to become devotee means to do the best service to the family. If there is one devotee in the family, all the forefathers, they are delivered. So anyway, don't be disappointed. Go on fighting and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be right. There is no cause of disappointment.

Rāmeśvara: Actually the field now for preaching in America is better than ever. More people are becoming interested to hear what we are and what our message is than ever before because of all this controversy. Whenever something is making newspapers that is confusing or controversial, they immediately want to hear about it because they have a tendency to look for faults.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: But they're very eager to have us come to the colleges and high schools...

Prabhupāda: Envious.

Rāmeśvara: ...to speak. It's much easier now to get lecturing engagements than ever before. They are after us to give our lectures.

Prabhupāda: So why not engage Brahmānanda in that business?

Rāmeśvara: I think he could do well.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let him go to the colleges accompanied by some other.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking that especially right now, this time, is the prime time for preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let as many sannyāsīs as possible. Sannyāsī, brahmacārī or gṛhastha, it doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: Cannot possibly cover all the territory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's so much engagement in America right now.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, I think Brahmānanda should be engaged with some assistant or some superior. Two. He should not be alone. That is the best solution.

Rāmeśvara: No one's giving engagements in New York. Now I have two people in L.A. beginning, Jagannath Sūta.

Prabhupāda: Then this kīrtana... This is kīrtana, speaking. Whatever little fault is there, that will be rectified.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: He'll like it too. Coming into America to help fight the demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately do that. This is conclusion. Engage him in preaching, and this is the opportunity. You said that "We require so many." Similarly, Madhudviṣa can be engaged also in that way.

Rāmeśvara: Wow. I was thinking... I wrote him a letter. He was very happy to receive it. He posted it in the restaurant. I invited him to come to Los Angeles. I was encouraging him.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking him from the very beginning, that he come.

Rāmeśvara: If he doesn't feel comfortable coming all the way to India, maybe I can invite him to Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have sent him telegram, Madhudviṣa. I have sent him telegram that "You come."

Rāmeśvara: He may be too entangled to come right away.

Prabhupāda: What is that entanglement?

Rāmeśvara: Well, he is not following all our principles.

Trivikrama: Women.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then engage them.

Rāmeśvara: If he's willing, he could give speaking engagements. I tell you, America is just wide open.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why not take this... Suppose he is attracted by some woman. Let him dress like a gentleman and keep with the woman as husband and wife and preach. What is the wrong there? Whatever is done, you close up that chapter. Now you become a householder. There is no harm. And live as a gentleman householder and preach. But don't play duplicity in the dress of sannyāsī to keep private relations. That is not good. That is duplicity. Better openly become a respectable householder and serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main thing, either in this dress or that dress. So if you cannot keep yourself sincerely as a sannyāsī, then get yourself married. But you cannot keep the girl as friend. That is also not good.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: To give him direction.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's coming. Kīrtanānanda has gone.

Rāmeśvara: Kīrtanānanda has gone, but now they are a little confused what should be done next. They originally... The plan was that he was going to come here to be your secretary. So now they need some new instruction. So we thought Jagadīśa could call and invite him to come to America to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is better. That is better. To write some letters here, that is not so important. But if he can preach and he... At least, we are expecting... He's old sannyāsī. He knows how to preach. Let him do that.

Jagadīśa: So I'll suggest that he goes straight to America instead of coming here.

Prabhupāda: If he's coming here, let him come. We shall talk together. There is no secrecy.

Jagadīśa: I'll leave it up to him, as he prefers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's coming, don't stop him. That is...

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've got a letter here from Jayādvaita and from Jagannātha dāsa regarding some corrections. These are two books that are in production right now. So would it be all right to ask you them?

Prabhupāda: What is that book? (break) Sarvātmana yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Factually Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate shelter. If he has taken that shelter, he's free, immune. And that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed here. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if he gives such a duty, he's liable to fall down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... "Because you are giving up all other duties, don't think that you'll be liable to punishment. I'll give you protection." So the conclusion is: if one is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he's obliged to do his duty. This is the easiest way to become free from all obligation—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, I think, duśyanta-rāja?

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It has already created.

Dr. Patel: ...America at this particular judgment.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: It will create much more turmoil.

Trivikrama: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: The more they create turmoil, the more we become famous.

Haṁsadūta: They say mind control and brainwashing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but actually that is what you are doing. You are cleaning our brain and teaching us how to control our minds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our method is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Yes, actually it is washing.

Dr. Patel: Brainwashing is very bad in India, not only in America but the whole world over.

Prabhupāda: I condemn everyone, that "You are all dogs and hogs." And United Nations a pack of dogs barking. That's a fact. And in Chicago I said, all women, "You cannot have freedom. You have got only thirty-four-ounce brain, and man has got sixty-four-ounce." I told them. So I became a subject of very great criticism.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the oldest.

Dr. Patel: (laughing) Keep in my hand and walk. And I would say, sir, that you also should not take bath in cold water.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't take. I... Since 1970, 1966, '67, I am not taking cold bath. Before that, even in America I was taking twice cold water bath.

Dr. Patel: I have never taken cold water in my life.

Prabhupāda: Shower I was taking.

Dr. Patel: All these boys take cold water, required from them.

Prabhupāda: I never used hot water. In India the Delhi is the coldest part. In my business life, in the hotel I was taking cold water. Everyone was surprised. "How you can?" In Saharanpur, in bitter cold, I was taking cold water early in the morning.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...gentleman will have a flag in the home.

Dr. Patel: During the times of Moguls you have seen all the pictures with the flag.

Prabhupāda: That was the system. Our Pandit Jawaharlal was keeping one flag also, always.

Dr. Patel: But what prosperity India must have. Those people from Europe tried to find out India and went down there and found America. What prosperity they must have... What prosperity India must have then.

Prabhupāda: India can have prosperity even now if they take their own culture.

Dr. Patel: No, even material prosperity I mean to say, sir.

Prabhupāda: Material. Mind is also material.

Dr. Patel: Europeans came here for material prosperity.

Prabhupāda: If you want satisfaction of the mind, that is material. That is not spiritual. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni.

Indian lady: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni. Mind and the senses, they're prakṛti-sthāni. They're not spiritual.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nice advertisement. Spend some money.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That will increase our prestige.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But we should advertise in America as Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, not Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no. As Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Actually, we have to keep ourselves.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Advertise as BBT, because no connection with Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: If you have got excess money, you can advertise. There is no need of keeping money. Spend.

Rāmeśvara: Money will be excess after the Māyāpur Festival.

Prabhupāda: That's right.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also it's becoming hard to enter these houses in America. In fact, door to door salesmen are having a difficult time now. Because of security reasons, they don't let any outside peddlars into the building.

Prabhupāda: That is always, trespass. Their trespass law is very strict in USA. There are dogs, and there are revolver, and trespasser, if he is killed, there is no offense. Is it not? It is very dangerous. I know one incident in New York. Some yogi came. So he was... You know that? So I became very irritated. So I asked him, "Get him out immediately." So my men got him out. He went to the police and he said that he was assaulted and so on, complained. The police came and inquired. So there were so many inquiries. But I did not know... Then I said that "He came to me without invitation." "Oh!" Immediately he dismissed. "I did not ask him to come. He came to me and disturbed me." So immediately, "Oh..." He decided. He said, "Oh..." So that law is very strict. And that is very good. Nobody can come without invitation or engagement. Otherwise they trespass. Is it?

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) All-pervading. It is very, very good improvement, encouraging. People will enjoy this.

Rāmeśvara: And He is lying on Śeṣa. This exhibit is so spectacular, this Universal Form. It is more impressive than anything, I think, in America, because at a certain point there is even a machine which makes different fragrances in the air.

Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"

Prabhupāda: At the present moment I am feeling well because you are here. (laughing)

Rāmeśvara: This is dakṣiṇā from Los Angeles temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bring more money. (Hari-śauri laughs) (break) I am going to spend this money in huge advertisement propaganda. I have given him the idea. Because here in India we haven't got devotees pushing as in USA and America we have got our devotees. They are attacking and pushing. Here there is no such devotee. And therefore I have proposed huge, big advertisement in the paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Paper and billboards.

Prabhupāda: Especially newspapers. I have given the instruction. You are here, and you can arrange, three. I am reading the matter also like this. Read it. It is very simple.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: Actually in Belgium the National Museum has also set up in their main window a display of your books. And that's very good for a museum, because they do not sell there, but they are considering it so important and scholarly that they are displaying them for the public to see.

Prabhupāda: That is good recommendation, yes. If that museum is so important, so to keep our books there is prestigious. In Europe, America, it is going on nice. Now here we have to take advantage of these papers. So I have already given Jagadīśa the idea. Now you immediately put into effect. You keep that also with your papers, this format. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Will there be an address on the advertisement for people to write to?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Book Trust office.

Prabhupāda: So you take your rest now. Then you shall come and go on talking.

Rāmeśvara: I'm not actually tired.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not tired.

Rāmeśvara: I'm feeling completely rejuvenated just seeing you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Utsāhān. This kind of utsāhā required. Utsāhā means enthusiasm. Utsāhān dhairyāt. So did you write to Dr. Sukla for sending the translation? So do it enthusiastically. It is a new peaceful revolution throughout the whole world. What other news?

Rāmeśvara: Actually it's not so peaceful in America.

Rāmeśvara: In America there are some atheists who are organizing constantly to attack us.

Prabhupāda: That is peaceful. That will bring peace.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. I was seeing it. Because now it has become such a controversy that the biggest television and radio programs are begging us, "Come on my show and explain the issue, whether you are brainwashing." So we have been already invited to be on the biggest nationwide television programs, and we're on radio...

Prabhupāda: And you are presenting nicely.

Rāmeśvara: Usually what they do is they bring someone on the show to ask us questions, and this person is very demoniac. He distorts and...

Prabhupāda: Why they should question? We shall explain.

Rāmeśvara: Well, we get the opportunity to, but that's how they set it up. In other words, they want to see us defeated, but in the end they are always defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is in our charge. Yes. They are afraid of their demonic civilization being killed by this movement. That is their...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fear.

Prabhupāda: That is... Hare Kṛṣṇa—this name has become popular all over the...

Rāmeśvara: Yes. (to Gopāla?) You have experience. (laughs) The learned people in America are very concerned that we are being...

Prabhupāda: Harassed.

Rāmeśvara: ...harassed, and they are organizing groups to defend us. In Harvard University...

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Rāmeśvara: ...the biggest professors and theologians have organized now a nationwide committee to defend us.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: They are getting everyone in America to ask the question, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" Because of all their false propaganda, everyone is asking, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: And that is our triumph. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read that even the New York Daily News took a poll to find out. They were asking every person what they think about Hare Kṛṣṇa. Usually they only take polls for very important issues.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but it was terrible. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The poll?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And Dialectic Spiritualism is published?

Prabhupāda: That is my point, that you are becoming so much proud of your technological..., but what you have done?

Guest (2): It is very insignificant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is my point. Why you become falsely proud that you have done so advancement that you don't care for God, you don't care for the original manufacturer? That is your fault.

Guest (2): The other day there was a doctor who had come from America for transplantation of kidney, and he has given a lecture in the Rotary Club. I was there. Now they give so much importance to the person who is able to transplant kidney from one body to the other, but how about the whole human being or the universe which has been created by God? Now, this is just a very, very insignificant thing which is already there which is just transplanted. But they feel so happy and proud.

Prabhupāda: That is my point, falsely proud.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man: Have seen the new light.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're opposing me very vigorously in America.

Indian man: And that is a good sign.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our victory, when there is opposition, and that is our victory. In spite of opposition, we are selling our books in large quantity. Yes. Large quantity. What is the one week sale that? Eighteen lakhs or something like...

Girirāja: In one week, the books, total of books, was seven lakhs books in one week.

Indian man: In one week? That would be hundred thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: No, no. More than. Eh? Seven lakhs?

Guest (11) (Indian man): But mostly they are in America. Also in that number in Japan?

Prabhupāda: No, America. And opposition is also in America. No, Europe and America, they are taking.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That is what I'm saying. Because...

Rāmeśvara: We are selling so many Gītās in America because we lowered the price.

Prabhupāda: So you consult and do.

Rāmeśvara: Did you mention about the loans for Bhūṣaṇa? Another thing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I had spoken to you earlier that we can expand our printing, especially in India...

Prabhupāda: So now you have received nine lakhs' worth books. So how you'll pay?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine lakhs' worth of books?

Prabhupāda: From America.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. As we sell these, this money can be put into construction.

Prabhupāda: So you have to inform them. He'll send less.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll work that arrangement out with him before he goes back.

Prabhupāda: So you should do that.

Prabhupāda: So you should do that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have told Rāmeśvara Mahārāja that before he goes back to America he should spend a day with me so we can work all these things out. So after he leaves you, he will spend...

Prabhupāda: Everything should be done businesslike.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We don't want anything free.

Prabhupāda: All first class.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can pay for things now. I'm just addressing Rāmeśvara Mahārāja's help in getting our exports done. Once...

Prabhupāda: He will help you, and then you can, you also, big business. You...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. These exports will give India a very good income.

Prabhupāda: Or you can exchange. Whatever money you have received, you supply books.

Prabhupāda: So you can supply the paper.

Rāmeśvara: And now, whenever we print books in America, we supply paper. It's much cheaper if we buy it.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We do the printing. I buy all the...

Rāmeśvara: The printer will mark it up if he has to spend his money for paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In India also we buy the paper ourselves. We buy the paper and give it...

Prabhupāda: That is good. Supply paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're dealing with all the paper mills directly.

Rāmeśvara: You take good savings that way.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And also the printer likes it because it doesn't enter his account.

Rāmeśvara: Printer loves it. The printer doesn't have to spend his money on paper.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, if he makes bill for the paper, then he has to pay sales tax.

Prabhupāda: So do it immediately.

Rāmeśvara: This is a good opportunity for us to have a very solid relationship with the printer.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also if we can give these Bhāgavatams for a dollar to America, they can import it from here also, and as I told Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, we can give a plastic cover plus two or three ribbons. Insured, it will cost nothing extra.

Prabhupāda: You decide for (indistinct) why not.

Rāmeśvara: We're going to discuss it at the Māyāpur festival with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Swami, because he's in charge of distribution.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why not import paper? It will be very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because on paper now there's high duty, but if it is for export, the government...

Prabhupāda: Then America can order from you also.

Rāmeśvara: On the Gītā, his price is not better than America.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is because of the...

Rāmeśvara: America, the printing is better and the price is better on the Gītā, because we are printing so many copies.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: On the Bhāgavatam the prices are better here.

Prabhupāda: It is a quantity. They are giving nice price for large quantity.

Rāmeśvara: Even though the price is better in America, he is getting the market because he is selling it for less.

Rāmeśvara: Has Prabhupāda told you how much profit you should make? Because in America you have always said it should be marked up one hundred percent. If a book costs us one dollar, we should sell to the temple at two dollars. So your book is costing over one dollar, and you are only selling it for $1.45.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. The Bhāgavatam's costing less. The Gītās we are selling for $1.50.

Rāmeśvara: Oh.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Bhāgavatams... Also the freight from here is less. That's another feeling that we have. Prabhupāda told me England, Australia, Africa should get books from India, and America, Canada, from America.

Prabhupāda: There is no consideration of big profit. Simply we want big number, distribution. That's all.