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America (Conversations 1972 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: I've asked devotees about how they feel towards sex in their relations, and I under..., I see their way they feel, but I can't see myself acting the same way. See, I'll be getting married in this end of this summer.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bob: I'll be getting married the end of this summer, in September or August, when I return to America. And the devotees say that the householders only have sex to conceive a child. And I cannot picture myself at all in such a position, and... What kind of sex life can one lead, living in the material world?

Prabhupāda: The Vedic principle is that one should avoid sex life altogether. The whole Vedic principle is to get liberation from this material bondage. And there are different attachments for this material enjoyment, out of which sex life is the source of topmost enjoyment.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bob: Presently, in America that's a radical concept.

Prabhupāda: Well, in America there are so many things which requires thorough reformation. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. When I went to your country, so I saw these boys and girls, they're living like friends. I said that "You cannot live as friends; you must get yourself married."

Bob: Many people see that even marriage is not sacred. So they find no desire to... Because people get married, and if things are not proper they get divorced so very easy...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that also.

Bob: ...that some people feel to get married is not meaningful.

Prabhupāda: No, the idea is that marriage is not sacred. They think marriage is a legalized prostitution. They think like that, but marriage is not that. Even that Christian paper, what is that, "Watch...?"

Śyāmasundara: Christian..."Watchtower?"

Prabhupāda: "Watchtower." It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosex. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That's all. So therefore people are thinking, "What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this."

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: So that is the real goal, to know God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go back to home, back to Godhead. That is real goal of life. Just like the water coming from the sea as cloud falls down as rain and the actual goal is to flow down the river and again go to the sea. So we have come from God. Now we are embarrassed in this material life. Therefore the aim should be how to get out of this embarrassment and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is real goal of life.

mām upetya tu kaunteya
duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
(BG 8.15)

That is the version of Bhagavad-gītā. "If anyone comes back to Me," mām upetya kaunteya... Mām upetya tu kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti, "he does not come back again." Where? In this place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is the abode of miseries. Everyone knows, but he has become fooled, befooled by so-called leaders. This is miserable life, material life. So duḥkhālayam... Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that this place is duḥkhālayam, it is a place of miseries. And that also aśāśvatam. You cannot make a compromise, "All right, let it be miserable. I shall remain as American or Indian." No. That you also cannot do. You cannot remain as American. You may think that you are born in America, you are very happy. But you cannot remain as American for long. You'll have to be kicked out of the place, and next life you do not know. Therefore it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That is our philosophy.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He's Indian?

Bob: Indian, Indian, lives nearby. He speaks English fairly well. When he was young, said he worshiped Kālī every day very vigorously. But then the floods all came, and the floods came, and the people saw hardship. But now he has no religion, and he says he finds his happiness in trying to develop love among people. And I couldn't think of what to say to him to add religion to his life, to add God to his life. He says, "After the hereafter," he says, after he dies, "so maybe I'll become part of God, maybe not," he says, but he can't worry about it now. He says he's tried this religious experience; it didn't work. And one reason I ask this is when I go back to America a lot of people I come across are like this. They see that religion, like his worship of Kālī or other kinds of religion that they've experienced doesn't work. And I don't know what to say to them to convince them that it's worth trying.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You do not try to convince him at the present moment. You try to be convinced yourself.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So better do not teach. Because you do not know what to teach.

Bob: I have, I'm actually, I'll be going... I don't like this so much and I'll be returning to America in May. But while I'm here, this is my agreement to stay in India, that I...

Prabhupāda: (Referring to microphone) It will not stay. No, if you are serious, you can keep yourself pure anywhere. It doesn't matter whether you stay in America or India. But you must know how to keep yourself purified. That's all.

Bob: You mean by following these principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I went to America. So either in America or in India, I am the same man.

Bob: I have tried somewhat to follow since I met you the first time.

Prabhupāda: But follow... You must strictly follow if you are serious.

Bob: Maybe... O.K., maybe what I say now is the most foolish of all I've said, but let me tell you how I feel.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yadubara: It's a new magazine, and this is the second issue out in America. It promised to be a very good magazine, and it hasn't turned out to be so. It's just another slick magazine.

Prabhupāda: Well, unless magazines are reduced to such position, it will not be sold.

Yadubara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They want to make business... All these pictures are yours? No.

Yadubara: No, just the ones on Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you.

Yadubara: ...I'm happy to say.

Prabhupāda: So who will go to Hong Kong?

(long silence, then two indistinct replies)

Śyāmasundara: Shall we decide now, or shall we wait until tomorrow?

Devotee: I met one man from Hong Kong yesterday, Dr. Bali, and he said he'd give us financial help in Hong Kong. I will go to see him this morning. (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: To Singapore also?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is also. And they eat white man very... They like white.

Yadubara: In the pot.

Prabhupāda: They will mislead some white man and... In India also there is this class. In Assam side. They eat man. Man means they regularly sacrifice before the Goddess Durgā and eat. (indistinct), Rāvaṇa's brother. The Red Indians, they also eat in America. Do they not?

Yamunā: They used to. There are no left anymore.

Prabhupāda: "Used to" means who knows what they are doing now.

Yamunā: The white men came and killed them.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they kill for eating. That is..., fighting or for taking possession, killing, that is everywhere. that is not extraordinary. But killing for eating a man, that is extraordinary. (chuckles)

Devotee: That's only in Kali-yuga, yes, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Only in...

Prabhupāda: No, no, all the yugas. More or less. (aside:) So when we shall have to go?

Devotee: I'll just see if the car is here. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...take away Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. The Japanese, they also eat everything? No.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Now, our simple philosophy is that we are spirit soul. We are eternal. You are eternal. I am eternal. Everyone is eternal. We are changing our body, transmigrating from one body to another. And that means repetition of birth and death, but we are eternal. Why we are in such botheration of repetition of birth and death? Not only that, sometimes in some species of life, may be very high position, sometimes in low position. Suppose somebody is American, and the next life, if he becomes a tree, if he becomes a dog... He may become a demigod also. There is possibility. Just like in future you may be a... (break) ...understand this movement thoroughly and take it seriously. It is for good welfare, for very good welfare. Now, in Europe, America, here also, so many frustrated young boys, they are coming to be practically of no value to the country. In America I see thousands of hippies, they are doing nothing. So what is the future of the country? If the flowers of the country, young boys, they do not take interest in anything, in administration, in industry, then what is the future? From economic point of view I have studied that America, for want of sufficient workers, they are importing goods from Japan. This is not very good sign. Why such a big country, American country, why they should import? But they are obliged to import. They have no workers. Japan's 75% business is done in America. We are not impractical. Because there are so many workers, but they refuse... In Central Park, it is full of rubbish things always. You go. It is a garbage. Why? There is no worker. And on the other side we see so many young men. They are not working, simply idling time. So they do not tackle the real problem. The future is not very hopeful if things go on like this. So many young boys, they are doing nothing. What is the percentage of hippies now in America? A very good percent. All the school colleges.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Sudāmā: In Russia?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are advertising equal facility to everyone, to the worker. The worker is still working. They are going, still walking on the street to go to the factory. So in this way the whole civilization is going on simply by bluffing. And because men are made śūdra class, they are believing. They are accepting this bluff. This is the position. Besides that, if you... Even if you are able to give everyone nice buildings and nice motor car... Already a few motor cars you have got, there is scarcity of space. From practical point of view. 99% of the population, they do not possess. Or say 50%. So already 50% men possessing motor cars, it has created problem. Where to park the motor car? How to supply petrol.

Śyāmasundara: In America now practically everyone has a house and a car. But now the problem is no one wants to work.

Prabhupāda: That's it. (laughs) Just see. And he is satisfied to remain as urchin, the hippies.

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They feel pleasure to remain as an urchin.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: The same theme.

Sudāmā: It was also very popular in America.

Śyāmasundara: One of the most popular books of all. Some man and a twelve year old niece, nephew, daughter?

Pradyumna: Adopted daughter. Step-daughter.

Prabhupāda: Adopted daughter, niece, we have practically seen. I knew one man, Gupta. Guru dāsa met him in Delhi. So he was old man, about four years younger than me, very rich man. So I used to visit sometimes his house. He was friendly. So one day I saw one young girl. So I enquired, "Who is this young girl?" "No, she is my adopted daughter. I have no..." He had no daughters, all sons, grown up. "So I have no daughter, so I have adopted her as my daughter." I thought, "That's all right." Some day after, one day I went there. I saw that his wife was not there. So his wife has left home on some complaint. And then I understood that that man was implicated with that daughter. So the wife, under protest, has left. There are many rascals who open girls' schools with the contract with the head mistress that she will supply young girls. Convent school. This is going on. So all these greatness are terminating in sex life and they are making arrangement, plan, and he says there is no plan. Even for his ordinary living he is making plan, and he says there is no plan.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: Because the United States, they are our best customer. A businessman goes to a place... Just like you have come here. Why you have come here? Wherever there is best possibility of doing your business, there you must go. I went to United States because I know these people are not poverty-stricken. And our Indian people, they are now, they have been trained to think like that—they are poverty-stricken. Actually, they are not poverty-stricken, but the leaders have educated them that, "You are all poverty-stricken." This is India's position. So far I knew that it would not be successful in India. The government will not help. The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars. They have lost their own culture and therefore they are beggars. So I thought it wise that I shall go to a country where there is no poverty. They will learn. They have enough. For material enjoyment, they have got enough. The material enjoyment means money and woman. That is, in America, it is lying on the street. As much as you like, you can take. But they are disgusted with this material enjoyment. Therefore they are coming as hippies. They are coming from very rich family.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): How many disciples do you now have, sir, in the U.S.?

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect many disciples, but still, there are two thousand. Because I have got so many conditions and the fact is so difficult to understand, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, they have forgotten God, and I am trying to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is a very difficult job. I have to shed my blood three tons before I make one convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my experience. I have to talk with him, especially these Europeans and Americans. They do not accept anything so blindly. They try to... I am always being questioned, even in my tooth(?) Question, question, question. That's nice. Inquisitive, they want to know. So I give them answers. I have got four secretaries always with me. They are giving answers. So to become Kṛṣṇa... Especially in Europe and America, when I make this condition that you cannot have illicit sex, you cannot have intoxication, you cannot meat eat, er, you cannot eat meat, you cannot have gambling... This is their daily affair. This is their life. Even Lord Zetland refused, "Oh, we cannot give up these things." So I am controlling them in this way. Still, they are coming. So it is very difficult job. Still, there are many thousands, and they are so sincere that if I ask them that... This boy is going to Red China. I am sending him. You see? So I have asked them, "You go there. You go there." They go even at the risk of life. Yes. It is the duty of the Indians to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but they are preaching very nicely. I am training these foreigners. They are doing this duty.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): No. What do you think of the Maharishi?

Prabhupāda: Why shall I speak of others? Then people will be angry. Better not to touch this point. (break) At least, my position in foreign countries is far better than any swami's, up to date. Vivekananda went there in America about eighty years ago, 1893. So Ramakrishna Mission has got about four or five centers, say, within ten in America. But I have got my centers in America and Europe, forty centers, and so many students. In Ramakrishna Mission you won't find so many American boys as followers, but we have got thousands of followers, all young men, young girls. So that is my hope, that even if I die—I am seventy-six now—these boys will conduct this movement. I am sure.

Guest (1): Where were you born?

Prabhupāda: I was born in Calcutta, 1896.

Guest (1): And what did you do?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was ordinary man. That's all.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: So there I began to write books, and then when three books were finished I started for America. And there also I wrote many books, dozens of books. You have seen our books. Our Kṛṣṇa Book is selling like anything in Europe and America. We are practically maintaining ourself by selling books. We have got our book sale all over the world, about twenty to 25,000 rupees daily and we have to spend seven to eight lakhs of rupees monthly. In Los Angeles alone we spend $20,000 per month. In New York we spend $10,000 per month.

Guest (1): Doing what? How do you spend it?

Prabhupāda: We have to maintain our establishment, the temple, the Deity, so many devotees. In each center we have got at least twenty-five devotees. At the most two hundred devotees. So their living costs, everything, by some way or other, Kṛṣṇa is giving us. But we have no fixed income; neither we have any bank balance.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): Thank you so much. I'm sure...

Prabhupāda: So many Indian swamis, they requested me to dress myself with coat-pants. I never agreed. You see all my pictures. They are all foreign pictures. So I never (indistinct) this dress also. Why shall I take to coat-pant? What is use? Now my students, they are giving up coat-pant. And girls, they are taking to saris. There is now good demand for saris in Europe and America.

Bhūrijana: They were even telling me that here, that I should wear like a diplomat's clothes instead of dhotīs. They don't... They were ashamed.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall go now?

Śyāmasundara: It's seven-thirty. (end)

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Devotees: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Whole world? Let me see. (reading) Southeast Asia, Australia, Japan, Korea, (indistinct), India, Central Asia, Mediterranean, Germany, Africa, South America, British Isles, Eastern Europe, Central Europe, Western Europe, (indistinct). So now you have to specifically mention Mediterranean means this. Similarly, all these center(?) should be specifically mentioned this.

Devotee: I was waiting till Śyāmasundara Prabhu came back.

Prabhupāda: Now so far division made by (indistinct), we are present. I'll represent him, that's all. And who else?

Devotee: Sudāmā Maharaja.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That was I'll represent. So...

Devotee: Gaurasundara.

Prabhupāda: Gaurasundara. He has been already agreed. Girirāja also. Those who are absent, I've written them. Now, so far Hayagrīva Prabhu is concerned, he has resigned from this. And he'll concentrate on editorial work. And Kīrtanānanda will become the president of New Vrindaban. So, that question is solved. Now, how the New Vrindaban will be managed, that we shall decide.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. So out of the three we are adding Brahmānanda, Girirāja and Madhudviṣa.

Devotee: What about Gaurasundara?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: (indistinct) America.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Gaurasundara. So, Girirāja, Brahmānanda and Madhudviṣa we want to maintain. Then... (door opens and closes) Three candidates, four, new?

Rūpānuga: Because originally Bali-mardana had a zone but now he's with ISKCON Press so actually he doesn't have a zone any more.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has... So you are also out. (laughter)

Devotee: It's really a difficult problem.

Prabhupāda: Ah, no problem. GBC means now they should tour very extensive. That is the first principle, the GBC. Not sit down (in) one place and pass resolution. No, they must be active. They must act like me. As I am old man, I am traveling all over the world. Now to give me relief, the GBC members... I shall expand into twelve more so that they can exactly work like me. Gradually they will be initiators. At least first initiation. You must make advance. That is my motive. So, in that way I want to divide it in twelve zones. And we have to make more propaganda throughout the whole world. Now if you think that the world is so big, twelve members are insufficient, then you can increase more than that and make the zone similarly divided. It is world affair after all.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Never mind to know that Kṛṣṇa is God or not, it doesn't matter. Then they don't, they didn't care for God also. Gopīs, when they say Nārāyaṇa, "Oh, He's Nārāyaṇa." (laughter) (indistinct) Nārāyaṇa, they have nothing to do with Him. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa and when Kṛṣṇa presented Himself as Nārāyaṇa, four-handed, they neglected. And before Rādhārāṇī, He could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. Automatically He handed (indistinct). (laughter) Hands are folded. So our idea is Vṛndāvana. So our love for Kṛṣṇa should be so strong that we don't care for anything. But for preaching if somebody challenges, yes, we are prepared to talk. That is authority. That is uttama-adhikārī. His love is Kṛṣṇa, enormous, but not sentiment. If anyone wants to talk with him, "Yes, come on," That is uttama-adhikārī, mahā-bhāgavata. So this is the position. Now something is in your hand—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That was my plan that I shall carry this baggage and give it to the Americans and they will distribute. That was my plan, therefore I came to America. So now you are so many boys, young boys, you have understood. So do it and give me relief. I remain in the background. Let me finish my Bhāgavata Purāṇa and those who are assisting in the writing, I'll be there (indistinct). That this institution, ISKCON will give to the world so many valuable jewels. There is no comparison. That you will have to see, (indistinct). Already they are appreciating on account of (indistinct). The paper, what is that paper...

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: So the Indians who are outside India, they have got a special duty. So far our economic condition is concerned, as I explained yesterday, that one is destined to certain material comforts and discomforts, according to his body—already he has got. So either you stay in India or you stay in America, the bodily comforts or sense gratification, that will be achieved either in India or America. What you are destined to achieve, you will have it because as soon as your body is manufactured, your standard of comfort and discomfort is also manufactured. In Bengal there is a proverb that yethā deoyā bhange, kapāla yābe saṅge(?): "Wherever you go, your fortune will go with you." Fortune and misfortune, that will also go with you. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said one thing, that "Any Indian, any man who has taken birth on the soil of Bhāratavarṣa, India, he has got a special duty. And that duty is to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: It is a fact.

Guest (2): You could actually find out, experience yourself that there is another world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Just like you have come to America. (laughter) Yes, similarly.

Guest (2): So you are saying there is a process by which you can see the other world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (2): Does this take a whole lifetime to learn?

Prabhupāda: It takes only one minute. (laughter) If you are serious. If you are not serious, it will not be understood, even millions of years. That is the fact.

Guest (2): I see. It's so simple, then.

Prabhupāda: If you are serious, then it is a one minute's business. And if you are not serious, it is not fulfilled in millions of years. That is the...

Guest (2): I see.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: If he commits suicide, if somebody commits suicide, that is also preset?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not preset. That you can do, because you have got little independence. It is not natural to commit suicide. It is unnatural. So, because we have got independence, we can go from nature to unnature, and we shall be prepared for that. Just like a prisoner cannot go out of the prisonhouse naturally, but somehow or other he arranges to jump over the wall and goes away. Then he becomes again criminal, for farther (indistinct). Naturally, the prisoners cannot go out of the prisonhouse. Somehow or other, he manages to go out. That means he becomes again criminal. He will be again arrested, and his term of imprisonment will be increased, or he will be punished more. So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent. But the small man at home is controlling his children directly. The controller, he is controller both in the office and factory and home, but at home he is controller directly; outside home he is controller indirectly. But he is controller always. Similarly, God is controller always. When one becomes devotee, he is controlled directly by God. When he is nondevotee, he is controlled by His agent, māyā. But he has to be controlled. Just like every citizen of America is controlled by the government.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Devotee: Yes, but Prabhupāda is an alien registered as living in the United States, so he can take his personal car.

Prabhupāda: I am immigrant, I am immigrant, and I think I heard that one who has lived in America more than three years, he can take.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes you can bring car.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, that is the law, I think.

Sumati Morarjee: So you can find out all this from India office. Yes.

Devotee: Yeah, Gurudāsa can do that.

Sumati Morarjee: And then will give you in Indian High Commission all details.

Prabhupāda: Another, another is that we get some incense imported from Hong Kong.

Sumati Morarjee: I know. So what is that incense?

Devotee: Punks, punks.

Prabhupāda: Punks.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sumati Morarjee: Because, you see today, then Swamiji was in so much trouble, I still remember. He wrote to me some letter from America, that I am sitting in the Central Park, all alone (laughter).

Devotee: Daddy can't be alone. You've got so many students, you have no time...

Prabhupāda: I was going to your agent's office, Battery...

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: Seventeen Battery Place.

Sumati Morarjee: Yeah, seventeen Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: So I was asking him, "find out when Scindia Navigation is going back." He said such and such date. All right. Then I thought, Let me stay another month, what I can do. then again I was going. He said such and such date. All right. Then I thought, let me stay another month, what I can do. Then again I was going...

Sumati Morarjee: To find out.

Prabhupāda: Find out (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Sumati Morarjee: No, but you come from where?

Prabhupāda: He's from America.

Guest: From California.

Sumati Morarjee: All from California?

Devotee: He travels around England and preaches in all the villages, small towns.

Sumati Morarjee: Where's that?

Devotee: Here, in England, Scotland.

Guest: I also met you in Bombay once.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have seen you in Bombay. And what about you?

Devotee: I'm Scottish.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, because you look...

Prabhupāda: In Edinborough we have got a temple.

Sumati Morarjee: Is it?

Devotee: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.

Sumati Morarjee: This small girl, whatever you have got, they can come twice or four or four times, three times a week. This Manipuri girl comes.

Prabhupāda: No, we are opening here in America, one school for training small children to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, so I told Swamiji. This Girirāja to come to our school, and tell them all my political stories, and tell them make them (indistinct) and all that. I hope he has started.

Devotee: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is your name?

Sumati Morarjee: His name is Mr.Girish Joshi. He is from Dacca.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see.

Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Now, in future, in Joshi family Lord Kṛṣṇa will appear as Kalki.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Guest (2): Swami, please, I don't want to interrupt. I want to try and ask you a few questions (indistinct). I'm with (indistinct). Swami, what do you think accounts for the..., your popularity, popularity of the..., the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement sweeping America?

Prabhupāda: Because it is not due to my personality. I am presenting the truth as it is. It will appeal. Just like if you prepare some foodstuff with nice ingredients, it will be appealing to everyone, and if you prepare something obnoxious, it may be appealing to a certain section, not to all.

Guest (2): What can appreciation of Kṛṣṇa do for the Americans (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: That, that I have repeatedly said, that you Americans, you are..., you have already the grace of the Lord. According to our Vedic formula, when a man is born in rich family he is understood to be possessing the grace of the Lord. So you Americans, you have got sufficient riches, you are sons of rich men. So this is the grace of God, janma aiśvarya, to take birth in a high family, to possess riches; janmaiśvarya śruta (SB 1.8.26), to become learned scholar. Just like you are going to the moon planet. Your scientific knowledge is advanced. And śrī, śrī means beauty. So you are beautiful also. So considering all these four points, it is to be understood that you are in favorable condition, favorable consideration of the Absolute Truth Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, then all your these material opulences plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness makes your life perfect.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America. We say that you are neither Christian nor American, Hindu, Muslim or Indian. You are servant of God eternally. Try to understand this fact, and make your life in that way. Then your life is successful. This is all. Simple. Now what is your comment on this statement?

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible. This is Vedic civilization: how people will be happy. They can be happy simply by self-realization, spiritual realization, because he is spirit. Material advancement will never make us happy, that's a fact. People have not become happy. In India they say that we neglected this material side therefore. But actually that is not the fact. They have lost their own spiritual culture; therefore they are not... But still, whatever spiritual culture they have got, still they are happier than others, if I make comparative study. In India still in village you'll find a man with practically no income but he has got his happy home, good wife, a cottage, little bread, but he is happy. Here I see they have no home, no family life. Even ordinary necessities of life means eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. They have no fixed-up eating. In America, in the Bowery street, lying down on the street, drinking. So many. Here also in your country. Day and night, in India they are lying, suppose they are poverty stricken, lying on the street. Now why you are lying on the street? When I go to the park I see so many there.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee (2): ...on her boats. We have many mṛdaṅgas, everything...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Calcutta. From Calcutta, there she starts for all over the world. So simply... But Calcutta manager is rascal. Calcutta manager, that is difficult.

Devotee: Why don't we send... Why don't we send a hundred, two hundred mṛdaṅgas to America and Europe, big shipments sometime? We really use them down through the years.

Prabhupāda: But I know that Calcutta manager is a (Hindi). (laughs)

Revatīnandana: Well, they won't become... They have many... All the big men in the Calcutta house, they won't become life members. None of them. I know, I approached them. No one will become life members.

Prabhupāda: Calcutta house?

Revatīnandana: That Calcutta Scindia office. There's several big men. The one I remember is Mr. Trivedi. I don't know if he's the head man.

Prabhupāda: Trivedi.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: He is Englishman.

Devotee (2): He went to America and then he made all these films.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: He went to America and he made a lot of money there.

Indian: As far as I know, Prabhupāda, he was Jew, but he used to live in east of London, or south of London. There is an autobiography about it.

Prabhupāda: Max Linder, ah, Charlie Chaplin? Yes. He was a London man.

Devotee: But that movie was filmed in Los Angeles, the one we saw last night. In Hollywood. All the palm trees and the (indistinct) behind.

Indian (Ksirodaksayi?): One of the elder sons, he's still living in Hampstead Heath.

Prabhupāda: Oh, his eldest son. And where he is, Charlie Chaplin?

Devotee: In America.

Prabhupāda: In America?

Devotee: He's in Switzerland.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: Civilized. Very civilized city.

Prabhupāda: Why civilized? Do you think it is especially civilized?

Devotee: Well, a lot more than America anyway. By comparison it seems civilized, in the sense that there is not so much violence. There's not... People are honest, upright, moral, a little more.

Prabhupāda: In America general life is becoming wretched.

Devotee: Wretched. Police don't even carry guns here.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Policemen don't even carry guns in Britain, but in America every policeman's got at least one gun.

Prabhupāda: The Englishman... I've studied Englishman. They consider America is still uncivilized. They say like that. (indistinct)

Devotee: Still uncivilized, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But here also hippy-ism growing.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: They take Chinese goods from Hong Kong to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: There's not many from Hong Kong to America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore she said send to India. Take information.

Devotee: Transfer to another boat. That will save them a thousand dollars a month.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That's a thousand dollar contribution.

Devotee: Yeah. And as it grows, it will increase.

Prabhupāda: And send them a Gujarati paper, our magazine, distribution amongst their workers. That will satisfy (indistinct) sense.

Devotee: Hm. Tell that to Girirāja?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bondage means material. In spiritual life there is no bondage.

Guest (2): How about love between people? Just like this... Is that bondage also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also bondage. Suppose you love your countrymen. So you want to remain a faithful national, so you will get your birth again in this country or that country, as you like. (doorbell rings) So either you get your birth in India or in America, it doesn't matter. You are bound up by the laws of nature. It is not that Americans do not die, only Indians die. Everyone dies. So that is also bondage.

Guest (1): How about love towards relatives? They say, "Love your parents," or "Love your wife and children." Isn't that also bondage?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Does that mean you should not love your parents?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no love in the material world. You love somebody with some personal interest. So that is not love. Everyone loves. To be frank enough, a wife loves husband so long he is nicely earning, and the husband loves the wife so long she is beautiful. That's all. This is the love. It is not love. It is lust. Love is different thing.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: He is struggling hard within this material nature because he is not serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore his punishment is to struggle hard in different species of life. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and he is transmigrating but becoming happy this way or that way, that way, that way. Just like you have come to America to become happy. Is it not? Otherwise why you left? Similarly, we are transmigrating from one country to another, one planet to another, one body to another, searching after happy, happiness. That is struggle for existence. So Kṛṣṇa says, "They are My part and parcel. Instead of serving Me, they are serving their mind and senses." Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). So long we serve our senses and mind we remain in this material world, prakṛti-sthāni. And as soon as we revive our real consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness—we serve Kṛṣṇa—that is liberation. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is the ultimate instruction. So instead of serving the senses, kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā, just like serving the country, serving the family, something, the wife, and serving the husband, serving the father—all the services are different phases of kāma. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. So at the present moment we are serving our senses. When the sense service will be transferred to Kṛṣṇa, that is liberation. And this is bondage.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Just like this MacDonald's hamburger stands, they have a sign in front of their hamburger stands—they have also several thousand hamburger stands—the sign says, "Over ten billion hamburgers served." Their company has served ten billion hamburgers. (break) (Outside walking:)

Prabhupāda: America?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He told me he was very pleased to see Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he said he will start chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. He said he will go to Laguna Beach temple and he said he will try out chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jayatīrtha: He told me that he could see that this knowledge wasn't theoretical, that it was realized knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: He told me that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayatīrtha: That the knowledge that you have isn't theoretical but it's realized. He was very much impressed by that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He liked the prasādam so much that I made another plate and he finished that. Then after that he took the..., he finished the... What is that preparation from eggplant?

Devotee (2): The vegetable, he really liked that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he finished all plate, he liked so much. He said, "What is this?"

Prabhupāda: Gradually try to convince him and let him read our books.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling saṅkīrtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success

Prabhupāda: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brāhmaṇas. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, there's no doubt about it. They will learn technology the coming years, and when they become frustrated again, then they will again learn the spiritual science.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: A lot of times when the Indian people come to our temple, they remark like that, that they've never seen such a temple and devotees.

Prabhupāda: There is no temple in India. As we are maintaining our temple, there is no such temple in India. There are temple, they are neglected. Just like here, the churches are neglected. (break) ...demons, and here we are manufacturing demigods.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

This is the right... Another definition is God, God is all-attractive. Now, if you try to understand what is this attractiveness, just like your American country is very opulent, very attractive. If a man is very rich in the society, he is attractive. Then if a man is very strong, then he is attractive. If a man is very famous, he is attractive. If a man-man or woman—if a man is very beautiful, he is attractive. If a man is in the renounced order, he is attractive. If a man is very wise, he is attractive. These six features are attractive features. Now, these attractive features, every one of us have to some extent. Just like you are ambassador, representative of USA, so you are attractive. So this attractiveness you have got. Sometimes I have also got. Somebody comes to me, "Let me see this Swami speak," you see. So this attractiveness everyone possesses. But God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible. But God can say "I am the richest person in the whole creation." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He says, "I am the proprietor of everything." Just like in America, before the Europeans migrated to America, the land was there. It belonged to somebody. Now you are claiming you are proprietor. Say after five hundred years or something somebody may come. The land is there, we come here for the time being and claim "It is my property." But actually who is the proprietor? Actually God is the proprietor. Therefore anything produced out of the land, that is also property of God. Just like if you have got a gold mine in your country. So I am not.... India will not go to claim that "It is my property." It is your property, because it is produced with your land. So if the whole land, whole sky, whole air, whole light, everything belongs to God, then where is your proprietorship? It is stated, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ mano eva (BG 7.4). Now, nobody can say "The sky is my property," but there must be some proprietor of the sky.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...we have no patronization, so whatever I have done, single-handed, and these boys help me a little. I did not get any help, either from my government or your government. But it is such a great science, such a great philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: They're starting to appreciate it. Many of the universities we have a course, in America.

Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct).

Ambassador: You do have a course.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, Berkeley, Southern California.

Prabhupāda: We have got books. I have brought along books for you.

Ambassador: Oh! Oh!

Prabhupāda: Big, big books. Dozens of books like that. Here is another book.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Why? She has got eight children.

Ambassador: No, but I mean they are not devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not so much.

Śyāmasundara: And the father of one of our Godbrothers from America, Mr. Teton, he's from Chicago, he was there with Girirāja, and she was saying to him, his sister was saying to him, "You're so fortunate that your son is a devotee." He's a very wealthy attorney in Chicago, and his only son is a devotee, but he is somewhat, from material point of view, he was somewhat confused. So she said, "You should be very happy that your son is a devotee. I have eight sons, and they are not like your son."

Guru dāsa: You met Girirāja. He came last time to the city.

Ambassador: Oh, yes. I remember. Yes, yes.

Guru dāsa: He's from Chicago.

Ambassador: That's right. Now he, uh, he has a wife here? No? He's not married?

Prabhupāda: No, he's not.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: After my retirement, I was living in the Keśī-ghāṭa, Nāthagrāma(?) Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple. But this Gosāijī, Gauracanda Gosāijī, he asked me, "Why don't you come here?" So I left that place. I came here. And with some arrangement, I took this room. But I was always thinking that "Guru Mahārāja asked me, and he asked also some of my other God-brothers, but up till now, nothing has been done. So let me try, at least, at the fag end of my life." So I left Vṛndāvana in 1970 and went to New York. Uh, not. 1965. At the age of 70 years. But for one year I had no place to live. I took some of my books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, printed here, up to three parts, First Canto. And I was personally selling these books to the book sellers and to the persons any way. With great difficulty I was pulling on. And New York is a very expensive city, a great city, a great forest. (laughs) And I am poor man. So then it is a long history. Then I began chanting in the Tompkinson Square, and I think, in the first day this boy, Acyutānanda Mahārāja now, he and another boy, Brahmānanda Mahārāja, he is also preaching in Africa, these two boys danced, and this photograph was published in the New York Times with great details. That was the first encouragement. And after chanting in the park, many young men and girls used to come to my apartment and my meeting place. In this way I started, first in New York, then in San Francisco, then Montreal, then Boston. In this way, now we have got about one hundred branches all over the world, forty branches in America. Big, big cities, Australia, I mean to say, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Boston. What is that? Other cities? San Francisco.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yaśodānandana: We want to put Kṛṣṇa in palace.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving you the opportunity, you Americans. Now you are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be the most opulent nation of the world. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa both. You have got Lakṣmī, but if you take Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī will be permanent. Lakṣmī will not go. And if you reject Nārāyaṇa, then Lakṣmī will stay for some time. That is Cañcalā. Her name is Cañcalā. The British empire has failed, the Roman Empire has failed, the so many empires, the Mogul empire has failed, because they wanted Lakṣmī, not Nārāyaṇa. If you take Nārāyaṇa, your Lakṣmī will stay. Just try to convince your countrymen, just like President Nixon. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that I was dictated to go to America, because Kṛṣṇa wants that you should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa wants. So you have taken. Now spread. It will be grand success. And there are so many candidates, very nice. All right, go on, take... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No one's servant. Everyone's servant means no one's servant. They are no one's servant.

Pañca-draviḍa: They will never give you anything.

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, life in foreign countries nice. Because I am seeing, from materialistic point of view. In America, you can get anything without any control. Any amount, anything.

Gurudāsa: There is more supply than demand.

Indian man: Than demand, yes. That is the problem there: what to do with the stuff that you have got and that you are producing. That's an economic problem.

Pañca-draviḍa: Not just supply, quality. When you buy an orange and you have a glass of orange juice, it's orange, it's not yellow. (laughter)

Devotee (3): But by their lack of demand, we are reaping a harvest.

Prabhupāda: Yes, especially in California, oranges, if you compare orange here available... Dates, first-class dates, first-class orange. There is watermelon. All season you get watermelon, karmuj(?). First-class watermelon. And karmuj. And what is that special karmuj produced in Keśi-ghāṭa? That greenish?

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in your country it is called honey comb.

Devotees: Honeydew.

Prabhupāda: Honeydew, yes. So I immediately remember your Keśi-ghāṭa karmuj, first class. So sweet, little greenish. But you can get all the year round. Actually America is favored. Therefore, I repeatedly say that you Americans, you are graced by God, you simply take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will become first-class nation. And actually they are taking more than other countries. (break)

Devotee (3): India will become Communist also?

Prabhupāda: It has already begun. India will become Communist. What do you think?

Indian man: It's difficult to predict. I don't think so soon.

Gurudāsa: One life member very dramatically the other day said it is not around the corner...

Prabhupāda: Especially in Bengal they have become Communist.

Gurudāsa: She says we are amidst it.

Prabhupāda: Madras they have become Communist.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In that parikrama?

Indian man: In that parikrama.

Prabhupāda: And I was initiated in Allahabad after return from parikrama.

Indian man: (indistinct) parikrama. That way I am senior by you. (laughs)

Devotee (3): From Indian people in America, we have learned about that.

Indian man: Huh?

Devotee (3): In America, we have learned from Indian people about that. (break)

Prabhupāda: Why not? You are qualified.

Indian man: I do not like to leave, not that I don't like to visit foreign countries. Just now, as a matter of fact, I don't have time to think of anything else except that (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man: Until I complete that work...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise Bon Mahārāja was deputed, but he wanted to cheat. He thought that "I shall go to England and become. When I come back, I shall advertise myself, 'I have preached in this way and that way and that way' and exploit." Just like Vivekananda. They are all cheaters. Vivekananda had no knowledge even to..., knowledge to give. He was such a rascal. And he went to America and he picked up three women, that's all. That is his achievement. One Sister Nigrita(?), his private secretary, that's all. This is all cheating. If you do not know... They go for wine and women, that's all. All these swamis they are going now these days. Saccidananda, that long-haired man, he is also being sued for something. Who was telling me?

Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family. Why they have taken seriously? Because they have understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely. So I request that God is neither Indonesian, neither Indian, neither African, God is God. And He claims that all living entities, in any form... The form is superficial. The form is taken as dress. Just like you are dressed in a different way, I am dressed in a different way.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So anyone who does not follow the śāstra, the essence of śāstra is (indistinct) So anyone who studies Bhagavad-gītā minutely, (indistinct). These European, American boys, because they're strictly following the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct). Only thing is they're following (indistinct) śāstra. (indistinct) ...waste of time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Simply wasting time. (indistinct) Prayer has failed all over the world because they are neglecting the (indistinct). Nobody goes to church. Churches, churches are now being sold. In London, have you been in London? There are hundreds and thousands of churches, they're simply (indistinct), nobody goes there. Not only in England, in America also. In America still, they are going on, because there are (indistinct) churches, but in England I will say, it is (indistinct). Very, very nice, you have been to (indistinct)? (indistinct) ...so excellent church, there is one flaw, very big church, well constructed. Now the church authority, desiring that the somebody, he's imagining (indistinct), he's imagining that this is such a nice church so our... Government has sent somebody to take this church, he's thinking Americans may take... No, why Americans will be interested to take the church, as it is... But he's thinking... That means he wants to dismantle the church. But church now will not allow. He's finding out some customer who will take the church (indistinct). So their headquarter land is very valuable.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Scholar: How many countries for instance?

Prabhupāda: Whole world. Especially in America. America, Europe. From here we are going New Zealand, Australia.

Scholar: Are they in Arabic countries also?

Prabhupāda: Arabic countries also, our men from (indistinct) that is an Arabic country. We send to Pakistan also, but due to this war, the American Embassy, they asked us to (indistinct). We are going again, Bangladesh. We have got Russia and we are negotiating with China also. So because you are here, you have taken the importance of Bhagavad-gītā, why not do it rightly and propagate nicely. That is our proposition.

Scholar: We will think about it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Think about it.

Morning Walk -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So why do they not back this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a first-class nation.

Devotee (3): Yes, but they don't know.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) them. Take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. Your nationality will be first-class. (break) ...your nation, America. If they take it, everyone will take it. (break) Gambling.

Devotee (3): Probably gambling, lottery. (break) That Japanese man who you asked to come today, he reads Mandarin, Chinese. I gave him our Mandarin, Chinese Back to Godhead to read yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Mandarin?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: How you are Mandarin?

Devotee (3): Chinese, from Hong Kong.

Prabhupāda: This sky(?), they are making like Calcutta Esplanade. (indistinct) Victoria Memorial, you don't remember?

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: What is your age now?

Guest (1): Seventy-two. I like the ship, so old man prefers cheaper trip than air, (indistinct) so I take air from Indonesia (indistinct) only and take ship to Alexandria. (indistinct) From Alexandria to Morocco I take (indistinct) bus, big bus like Union Pacific before from east side the west side America, we take big bus (indistinct) four days only I arrive at (indistinct) Morocco. And maybe I cross to Andalusia, Spain, not near Madrid, Castillian (indistinct) again take ship from (indistinct) railway from Manchester to (indistinct) So still seven years I loitering. And this only to see old friend in Edinburgh, and I see old, old man (indistinct) I am also old man, not so long time, within one year I down, I never been South America, only up to Mexico so I go to (indistinct). And stay, I contracted only one contract three years but I want to work, job, one year, highest salary there so and finish I go to Argentina from Santiago Chile I take the ship again to, Sydney, my younger brother, Sydney and go back from (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: In Sydney also we have got temple.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (1): The Christians here, get money from America. In Bali, where there's many Hindus live, they convert many people by saying, "If you become a Christian, you'll have good economy with us."

Prabhupāda: And that is the Christian propaganda.

Devotee (1): Same in Madras.

Prabhupāda: In India, everywhere. They cannot attract people by their philosophy. It is show money, "Yes, come on, take money." (pause) Hong Kong also. (break) Very, many meat shops. Rather this vegetable,...

Devotee (1): It's expensive.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): It costs a lot of money. Meat is more expensive to eat. Actually, most people, mostly they eat vegetables because it is available. But there's much fish. There's much fish and they carry around in the streets everywhere.

Devotee (2): In the Eastern countries usually people eat little bits of meat but they're vegetable. It's only in the West that they eat steak. But in every restaurant, they all have meat, much chicken also. They raise chickens. (pause)

Devotee (1): Tomorrow morning we have asked some Indian community leaders to come about 7 o'clock, because they want to be requested by you to do something to help make a temple or what you like. But they... Apparently they feel unhappy because we have not met with the leaders and asked them to help.

Prabhupāda: Why should I put the question? They should first of all. They should come forward.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Sanātana Gosvāmī also asked that question to Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is the question of human life, that: "I want to enjoy. Why there is obstruction of my enjoyment?" Then the next question will be then what I am and what is this nature? These are intelligent questions. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? These are very minor questions. They are questions for animals. For the human being, this is the question, that "I want to enjoy life. Why there are so many obstructions?" This is human question. The animals, they do not question. They submit. Just like when you slay one animal, it submits. But a human being, there is law because human being is intelligent. So you cannot kill any other human being, you cannot murder. Then you'll be hanged. But they cannot make law. They're lower grade animals. They submit, somebody killing. But the objection is there, both by the human beings and the animals, that the: "Why you are killing me?" But he's helpless. The man has invented some means. So they have made their laws. But both of them are objecting. In your, in America somewhere, when I first came, there was some incidence that in a live store, they got some opportunity to flee away. Then all the cows were fleeing away. And they were shot down. They were stopped. They knew that: "We are stocked here for being killed." So they got some opportunity, going away. And there is always miserable condition. Just like why you have covered so much? Why you have spent for covering? This is also miserable condition.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Now in Russia, the people are starting to become disillusioned.

Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So as much they require, they are allowed, "Take it." But they are not making any stock for speculation. Man does that. As soon as there is some good harvest, ah, immediately they... (break)... problem. If everyone only takes as much he requires, there is no problem in the world. But he wants to take more. Just like you Americans, you have covered so many thousands of miles. And you don't allow anyone. "No, you cannot enter. Here is gun." What is this nonsense? It is God's property. Why do you disallow others. Let them come. So there is no question of over-population. There are so much land in Australia, in Africa, here in America, that ten times of the present population can be provided. God has provided. But these rascals will not allow. So there is overpopulation in India, in China and other places, and there is problem. They are trying to occupy more land but you will not allow. Therefore war, there is war. So we create problems. Otherwise God has supplied us enough. You can use it; as much as you like you can use what you have... They are creating trouble and the scientists giving them, "Yes, I am giving you this chemical composition. You drop on the enemies' camp." This is scientific research, to impel the rascals. (laughter) The rascals, rogues, they are trying to usurp other's property, and the scientists helping them. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are different nations. They are already existing. So jāti means that. Jāti means born of a particular species. That is jāti. Jīva-jātiṣu. Ṣu, plural number. So many jīva-jātiṣu. He's simply Bhramadbhiḥ. Just like I am traveling, sometimes America, some Australia, sometimes... But they are already there. I am going sometimes in America, sometimes Australia, sometimes Africa, but they are already there. I am the man; I am traveling. Not that because I have to come to America, I create America. This is nonsense. And there are many countries I have not gone there. Does it mean that they are not existing? They have no even human reason, these rascal scientists. The common sense reason. And Bhagavad-gītā clearly says they are already existing. Wherever you like, you can go. You can go even up to the kingdom of God if you so desire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that science? That is not science. That is ignorance. Ignorance. Simply ignorance. Ignorance is going as science. Irreligion is going as religion. So how long it will go? People are becoming intelligent.

Paramahaṁsa: In Newsweek Magazine-it's the largest magazine in the United States—there was an article about the degradation of Christianity, and they summarized it with a cartoon, a picture of the devil, you know māyā. This is their image of māyā. And he was causing earthquakes. There was a very large earthquake in South America. It killed many thousands of people. So they attribute this to māyā. And right next to them was a picture of Richard Nixon, because he is a very famous, you know... He presents himself as a follower of Christ. And he's bombing Southeast Asia.

Prabhupāda: "Thou shalt not kill."

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Useful, giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow. Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they shall kill? What is the reason?

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: That government, what does it mean, "government"? Government means also a person, like president.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here in America, the government means President Nixon.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, well, okay, if you want to believe that.

Prabhupāda: Why not believe? It is a fact.

Krishna Tiwari: I don't agree with it at all. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Why don't you agree? Then you are madman. You are a madman. (laughter)

Krishna Tiwari: (laughing) No, no. I don't agree with you, Swamiji, at all.

Prabhupāda: No, no... Yes.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: ...German center, (Bengali) ektā United States.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Three in America.

Prabhupāda: Three in America.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Another three, Another...?

Prabhupāda: Another three in Europe.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Three in Europe. Six.

Prabhupāda: One in India.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: India, one.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Aside) (Bengali) Why you are keeping there?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: India, one. Seven.

Prabhupāda: Seven. And Africa, one.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: One.

Prabhupāda: Eight.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: And one...

Bhavānanda: Canada.

Prabhupāda: Canada.

Devotee: Africa and South America.

Bhavānanda: Ah, yes, South America.

Prabhupāda: South America. What part?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: South America. South America, kon jaegaeta (?)

Bhavānanda: Australia and Southeast Asia also.

Prabhupāda: Argentina.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Argentina.

Devotee: And Japan. Japan.

Prabhupāda: Japan includes now...

Devotee: Western United States.

Prabhupāda: Western.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Thirty dollars, yes. So this is very encouraging that our books are... (Bengali) The books are selling like anything, these books.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hotcakes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hotcakes, yes. We are ordering to Dai Nippon, because they are giving us facilities, 100,000 copies each. And distributed all over the world. The whole world, Australia... The whole... Australia is English-speaking. Whole America is English-speaking. England, English-speaking. And Europe also, half, English-speaking. India, more than half, English-speaking. So in this way, English literatures, worldwide circulation we are getting. And besides that, we have published in German language, in Spanish language. Just yesterday I received Spanish Back to Godhead. People are liking it very much. So here is something.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who is in charge of this publication?

Prabhupāda: Publication... I have made one Trust, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Bali-mardana. Bali-mardana and another, Karandhara dāsa Adhikārī. So actually he's the manager, Karandhara dāsa Adhikārī. He is looking after.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: At America.

Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles. He's very intelligent boy. He knows everything. He knows accounts, He knows how to construct building. He knows how to manage. He knows how to publish. Everything.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Versatile.

Prabhupāda: Versatile, yes. And he's not very old. And he wants to take sannyāsa also. He's a gṛhastha, he has got a child. And: "Just wait. We shall arrange for your... You are already sannyāsī." He lives apart from his wife. So he's very nice boy.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: That's right. If ...one boy who stole from us, I told the police. We told them exactly where he was, at the airport, Manchester. "He's going on flight such and such to America tomorrow." Plenty of time to apprehend him. They didn't do anything.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Śyāmasundara: They came... Oh, they sent one inspector to take notes.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Śyāmasundara: Many notes.

Prabhupāda: Useless, all... And taxation. No security and ninety-nine per cent taxation. Just see the fun. They are very much accurate to take taxation. And there is no guarantee of security. This is the position.

David Wynne: Has it ever been perfect?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

David Wynne: Has it ever been on earth in the material world perfect with...?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But, they have lost all gold. There is no gold, simply paper. That's all. Simply blessing, "Yes, you'll get money." (laughter) But you'll never get. In the bank also, any amount of gold you can purchase. Bank was canvassing that "You take gold from us." I do not know where those gold gone. Nowhere, all over the world, you cannot purchase gold. Even in America.

Śyāmasundara: You can purchase some places, but the price is so high for a small amount.

Prabhupāda: Zurich, you can get.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, Switzerland.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot get out with the gold.

Śyāmasundara: No, officially not.

Prabhupāda: Well? Then? Suppose you purchase gold there. If you want to take out, they will not allow.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...bones, skeletons was found. In Africa there are still cannibals.

Guest (4): Oh, yes.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: In South America as well.

Prabhupāda: South America also? In India also.

Guest (1): That, these...

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Assam side.

Guest (1): This Assam, some of the places.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They eat human beings. Nara-buli (?), sacrifice human being, still there is a class of men.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: In South America, they take a human being. From the head down, they eat. Then the head, they shrink it until it becomes very small, and this is a great prize.

Guest (2): (Hindi) That was on the television, given all this, in South America, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Just like you, you keep the tiger's face after killing.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You are Hindu, but which province.

Guest (5): I come from Guyana and my father's from...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Guyana. That South America.

Guest (5): No. My father's from India. My mother's from India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest (5): No, they come from Jullundar.

Prabhupāda: Jullundar, Punjab.

Guest (5): Yes. And...

Prabhupāda: What you are doing here?

Guest (5): Well I have come... I'm working at the moment. I'm working at the moment.

Prabhupāda: Working?

Guest (5): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What work?

Guest (5): Well I'm on the (indistinct) hotel. In the kitchen working, all the washing, and the supervising and things. You know, my father's seen you. He's come and seen you a bit.

Prabhupāda: Ma-phal?

Guest (5): My father.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Guest -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So why other jīvas should be left aside? Why they should not understand Kṛṣṇa. And actually, they are understanding Kṛṣṇa better than many Indians. They have taken very seriously. They do not put any competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Our Hindus, they put forward so many competitors of Kṛṣṇa: "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be God? I have got my own God." Especially after the preaching of this Vivekananda, that "You can create your own God," it has become very simple business to create one God.

Guest: Well, then, that time, when Swami Vivekananda went to America, the country was not independent, not liberated. So at that time...

Prabhupāda: Who?

Guest: Swami Vivekananda, at that time...

Prabhupāda: No, who was not liberated?

Guest: This country of India. India was not liberated. So...

Prabhupāda: So what was the connection with liberation?

Guest: Ne. Because at that time there's some proud of nation and some proud of culture. He wanted to...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't think in America there was such conception. America had nothing to do with the British ruling. Rather, they declared independence from British rule.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Leave it.

Buddhist Monk (1): And Swamiji, you generally spend more of your time here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Generally, in America, Los Angeles. And also in Europe.

Buddhist Monk (1): We went to Hare Krishna in Los Angeles, (indistinct) couple of days.

Buddhist monk (2): Did you visit there?

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes. I remember, there we took our car, and when we were coming there, they were waving to us. I think that the world is shrinking; not that any continents are going down to the sea, but people are moving about the place. I think the more we start thinking about one world rather than big barriers and get together and meet together and talk together in a spirit of loving kindness, with tolerance, radiating our love always, I think this is the only way I know of. And people are getting interested in the universities, and other, high schools. Not still by the millions, but certainly by the hundreds and thousands. And that's good enough for a start.

Prabhupāda: Some of our books were selected textbooks in many colleges, universities. You have seen our books?

Buddhist Monk (1): I have seen some of them, not all of them. Because I meet these boys and girls, and... I seen that book about...

Prabhupāda: Our..., this book, Nectar of Devotion, that is a study book in the Temple University, Philadelphia. Similarly, our Kṛṣṇa Book, and what other books? They are...? Especially Kṛṣṇa Book and Nectar of Devotion. Bhagavad-gītā also, As It Is. (pause) We consider Lord Buddha also as incarnation of God.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

David Lawrence: When there are people without any...

Prabhupāda: How they are wasting! You see? And they're putting the overstocked grain into the sea. America.

David Lawrence: Dumping tomatoes, bananas, all these things.

Prabhupāda: What kind of civilization? And producing Nixon on the head. (laughter.) Just see.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they want to be happy. This is their position.

David Lawrence: They'll give...

Prabhupāda: The head of the administration is Nixon, and the activities is killing and throwing the grains in the sea. And they are civilized. Just see. Where is civilization? They have no common sense even.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: Really...

Prabhupāda: So his record has become very successful.

Śyāmasundara: Number one everywhere. In America.

Prabhupāda: Now, even they are appreciating.

David Lawrence: Very successful even with one boy, you see. That's success, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Śyāmasundara: He likes to hear it.

Prabhupāda: "I am in material world."

Śyāmasundara: We get letters from all over the world addressed to George Harrison care of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple London. (laughter) From Poland, from behind the Iron Curtain even. Russia, China, every place, they send.

Prabhupāda: And he has mentioned my Bhagavad-gītā in my name also.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In the in...? What is that?

Śyāmasundara: In the insert, in the record insert.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Make show. So we should not increase the show very, very much. Show shortcut show. That's all. Real business is... Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, they have been condemned by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, smārta and jāta-gosāñi. Smārta-paṇḍita, very serious about performing ceremonial rituals, they are called smārtas. This Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, also Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, that is also imitation of smārtaism. It is called smṛti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work. And as far as possible, should be heard... That is... And officially, krkshaharama (Prabhupāda chants very fast with words running into each other indistinctly). Not like that (chants again like that) Not like that. That will not... Every word should be distinctly chanted and heard, not official.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: ...as Prabhupāda was saying about the four rules and so many other activities. We may perform something on the surface, but the renunciation is there in our consciousness because we're giving everything to Kṛṣṇa as a service.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. What about America? (Sound of glasses of water being poured)

Śyāmasundara: Oh yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: That's good. (?)

Devotee: Some water, Dr. Toynbee?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, thank you. And what about Japan? She's an Asian country, but has been very successful in the western way now.

Śyāmasundara: Well, we have two centers there also. Japan also, we have centers.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I get the impression the Japanese are not very happy. They're very...

Prabhupāda: Nobody can be happy with this materialistic way of life. That is a fact.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Actually, English language... Now we see. We have got the facility of speaking in English language all over the world. Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: That is true. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Whole America speaks English language. Australia, New Zealand. In India also, practically all educated men, they speak in English. So in Africa. In Europe also, they understand English language. Not very much, but... (laughs) The Germans, especially, they do not like.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. No.

Prabhupāda: They do not like.

Śyāmasundara: Only at the airport.

Prabhupāda: France? What is the position in France? They don't like also.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I think, in western countries now, people are very much afraid of death. It's...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Especially in America, people are very much afraid of... They won't even mention or think about death which is a great weakness. One should be able to think about death.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is... That is natural. That is natural. Suppose if, after my death, I am going to become something lower than my present position, certainly I must be afraid of it.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if somebody gives me... This is a fact. Recently one astrologer has said that one of the biggest politicians in India, he has now become a dog in Sweden. May be correct or not, but there is possibility. There is possibility.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We are presenting...

Reporter: ...they understand the way of communication.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we are asking all these students... When I came first in America, in 1965, I simply asked them, "You chant with me, Hare Kṛṣṇa." They did it, and gradually everything has come. So where is the difficulty? (everyone laughs)

Reporter: (laughs) Yes.

Prabhupāda: If they chant, then they'll understand everything. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Everything is misgiving within the heart. So if the ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, if the mirror of the heart is cleansed, then when the mirror is cleansed you can see your face correctly. Similarly when all misgivings, all dirty things is cleared from the heart, you can see things as they are, correctly.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So they don't come there.

Mother: No, no.

Prabhupāda: That was the only place in the world there was no such sound. Otherwise everywhere. In America we have got so many temples. Even in West Virginia, hilly tract, there is also aeroplane. But less sound. Here it is near London, there must be. Yes.

Jesuit Priest: Have you met Mother Theresa?

Prabhupāda: Who is Mother Theresa?

Devotee: She's a Christian mystic.

Revatīnandana: She's a Christian nun, and she has a mission in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Saint Theresa?

Revatīnandana: Mother Theresa. She's living there now.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But your educational system, in the western countries, the, you have got big, big universities. Why the university students becoming hippies?

Mother: Oh, well, there're always a certain amount becoming hippies, in America, anywhere. But we must...

Prabhupāda: No...

Mother: But we must develop...

Prabhupāda: I think the college students university students, they're all hippies.

Mother: Yes, but we must develop the good ones that have talent. We must develop them. You have the power to give these boys...

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that if the chance of education is there... In India there is no such big, big universities, facilities, but in your western countries you have got nice universities, nice teaching system. Why the result is hippie?

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: Most people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our mission. Now, if you find it difficulty, you can come and join with us. That's all. Practically, in Europe and America, they are all coming from Christian group, Jewish group. So... Yes. This is a recent photograph of our Los Angeles center. They are regularly living in the temple, as they are living in the temple.

Mother: Hm.

Prabhupāda: And you'll also be surprised to know that this, this was a church, that building. It was a big church. So we have purchased it.

Jesuit Priest: Very nice.

Mother: In other words, your temple... Do you call it your temple or a church?

Prabhupāda: We call temple.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...there are many groups like that in America.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Like imitating Beatle groups.

Devotee: Allen Ginsberg.

Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg. Allen Ginsberg has no more popularity.

Devotee: No, not much.

Prabhupāda: He's roaming like vagabond. He came, London, to see me. That... He came, also. What is that? Bob...?

Yogeśvara: Bob Dylan?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Bhagavān: We are living, sixty, seventy people in this house, cooperatively, like this. That is a very great thing.

Prabhupāda: And they are living very happily. You can see from their face. Yes. They are known as bright-faced. Yes. Many, I mean, Christian priests, they came to congratulate me: "Swamiji, how you have made your disciples so jolly and bright-faced?" The government in America, they are surprised, that even after spending millions of dollars, they could not drive away LSD intoxication. And as soon as a intoxicated person comes to our camp, he not only gives up LSD and liquor, he gives up even smoking, drinking tea and coffee. So why not experiment this movement. The greatest socialist movement. If you want to get the socialistic idea, we can give you. Would you like to take?

Reporter: Oh, I don't trust. I could trust. Yeah. But...

Prabhupāda: Our socialistic idea, you can note down...

Reporter: I have nothing to lose but do you think you could manage all society very complex, as our...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is another wrong impression. Foolish impression. The whole world has got sufficient place to produce food for ten times the population as it is now. The Americans, they throw grains in the water. So if they send the excess grain to the place where grain is not sufficient, then it is God conscious-ness. If the so-called overpopulation is spread all over the world, there is sufficient place in Africa, Australia, America. The overpopulation can grow their food in these vast uncultivated land.

Yogeśvara: He says that only resolves the problem for a few years.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. We don't believe it. That is not...

Yogeśvara: Why. Why is it that this program...?

Prabhupāda: Why do they think that it is for few years?

Yogeśvara: He's thinking that the Earth is not capable of providing enough...

Prabhupāda: What does he know about Earth? His knowledge is not sufficient. He, he's speaking like a woman who saw in the marketplace in the morning thousands of people have gathered, and she began to cry: "Where I shall give place to these men?" So her son came: "My dear mother, don't cry. You come in the evening. We shall find some solution." So when she came in the evening, there was nobody.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Bhagavān: That's because in America, for example, the government will pay so much money. They will pay you more than if you grow so many fields of...

Prabhupāda: No, it is my experience. I have seen practically all parts of the world. If we grow food, all countries, especially America, both North and South, whole America, whole Canada, whole Africa, whole Australia... They are not producing food. There is so much land. So if you combine together on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no scarcity of food anywhere, in any part of the world.

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda, when we talk like this, is this to perhaps mean sometime in the future the movement will become so big that...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we accept that Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of everything, then it becomes one state, as it was formerly, five thousand years ago.

Bhagavān: But to do that from the position the world is in today, it seems like it's so, it'd be almost, very difficult to come to that platform again, unless we...

Prabhupāda: It may be difficult, but the philosophy is there. Solution is there.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Well, because at the present age we are in crazy or mad condition... What is called? Deformed brain. Therefore we cannot become. There is a poetry. Piśācī paile jana moti chana haya (?). As one becomes crazy when it is ghostly haunted, similarly a person under the clutches of māyā, he becomes also crazy like that. He talks all nonsense. How he can understand about God? Big, big hospitals in America for curing this craziness. Not only of the common being. Even for the priests. In America, they have got hospital for curing alcoholic habit of the priest. Five thousand patients. So he's alcoholic and he's in the priestly dress. This is going on. Because he's getting his salary, so he's maintaining his priestly dress. But internally, what he is, he knows only. Or when he comes into the open eyes, then one can know: "Oh, here is a priest, admitted in the alcoholic hospital." (end)

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: They will print it. They will supply in August or July, they said. They'll supply. So it has come out very successful. Just imagine, 200,000 copies distributed within one year.

Professor: In one year. That's very good.

Prabhupāda: And in America, our people go to saṅkīrtana. Many gentlemen comes down, gets down from the car, inquires, "You have got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?" They purchase like that. Yes. At least, they have become inquisitive on account of the word "As It Is."

Professor: What?

Prabhupāda: "As It Is."

Professor: Oh, As It Is, yes.

Yogeśvara: Because of the fact that our title is "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is."

Professor: "As It Is."

Yogeśvara: "As It Is." Yes.

Professor: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Professor: Oh. Yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...

Professor: You are right, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Harry: 'Cause that's right, you were the one who said that we could move in with a gun and shoot them, didn't you?

Revatīnandana: No, I didn't say that. I'm the one who hit him with a big piece of wood. Yeah.

Harry: Oh, you are? Well, they said they'd, "Why... Shoot them?" I said, "This is England, not America." (laughter) That was the cows, you know. Remember the cows?

Śyāmasundara: Well, in America, we're used to shooting rustlers, you know.

Harry: Yeah, but, uh...

Śyāmasundara: String him off the nearest tree.

Revatīnandana: Lynchings.

Harry: But what are you going to do about your security? Can I talk to this about this, you know?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Even in London, we haven't had need of..., haven't had much trouble.

Harry: Well, no, but you see...

Prabhupāda: In America also, I have seen...

Harry: ...there are some people who...

Prabhupāda: ...in counties , they keep open door. I was in Butler.

Śyāmasundara: (everyone talking at once) Yes, especially in places like Pennsylvania.

Revatīnandana: Motorcycle gangs, and...

Harry: Yeah, well, you get some down here.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Professor: In India, where is your center? Do you have any headquarters or something like that...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got center in Vṛndāvana.

Professor: Oh?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in Navadvīpa. I was, after my retirement from family, I was staying at Vṛndāvana. From 1956. Then in 1965 I came to America. So... Where is Haṁsadūta?

Paramahaṁsa: He's leading kīrtana downstairs, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Then...? You can, you can lead. Or anyone can lead. (break) So you like this kīrtana?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: It's very unusual in Sweden.

Prabhupāda: So you are, you are a devotee. Kindly cooperate with us, and overflood Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are educated. Your word will be accepted more than ours.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Poverty, there is poverty in other countries also.

Ambassador: Also.

Prabhupāda: There, there also... Now India has got poverty. So why in America and Europe, there are hippies. Why?

Ambassador: It's an express... It's another type of poverty.

Prabhupāda: They're also thinking that "We are not sumptuously fed," or something. Some demands is there. Some demand. And they are lying down, Amsterdam and here, on the street. And why? But they are coming of rich families, rich nation. Especially America. In London also, I have seen. Regent Park. They're lying down. Police is kicking. Police is kicking: "Get up, get up!" Why? Behind them the British Empire is, British government is there. Why he's lying down there? Who has told him to...? Government is requesting, "If you have no home, come on. I shall give you home." In Bombay also, these, what is called? The huts?

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: We have published only six volumes. Our manuscript is ready, but it requires great amount of money to publish.

Ambassador: And also...

Prabhupāda: But we are satisfied that in English-reading public, in Australia and America, in England, Europe—we are publishing in different languages—people are accepting our books very nicely. And lately that, one distributor...

Ambassador: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: This. No, not this. Where is that catalog?

Haṁsadūta: Brockridge, Keenan and Hall?

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah?

Haṁsadūta: Catalog? I think we must have left that in London.

Prabhupāda: They are also distributing our books, Macmillan Company. People are... Now there will be a big meeting on the 12th, September, how to organize. Because this kind of literature was there, there was none before this. The bhakti cult, this was never presented to the western countries.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Whatever might be the difference of opinion about the, you know, the subtleties, you see, this itself is very great.

Prabhupāda: And we have given each meaning of... You can see the Sanskrit verse, how we have explained. Here and in America especially, as soon as they see, they purchase the whole set. Six copies. See.

Ambassador: Beautiful. Very, very elegant English also. (Reads Sanskrit verse:) Brahmaṇe darśayan rūpam avyalīka-vratādṛtaḥ. And then you, you make it easy. Actually, it's...

Prabhupāda: Transliteration also.

Ambassador: ...It's for students also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Transliteration.

Ambassador: Yes. Transliteration and then (Sanskrit) and then...

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Yes, I am aware of the government problem.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Because they think, "Oh, it is religious." Not only they are... In America there are big, big foundation. As soon as we submit some petition, "Help us," "No, no, we don't help any religious movement." That's all. We don't get any help. Simply Kṛṣṇa has given us this chance of selling these books. That's all. Nobody's cooperating. Rather, when our people go to sell these literatures and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're arrested and harassed.

Ambassador: I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: That is because of, I think, a lot of confusion with drug movement, hippies and all that...

Prabhupāda: Oh. But... It may be... You might have been cheated by counterfeit money in some place. Does it mean there is no good money? What is this reasoning? "Because I have been cheated by some man, he gave me some counterfeit money, therefore I'll not touch money any more. No. Any note, that's all. We don't like." What is this? He must judge whether it is counterfeit or real. That is required. So if you can help us in some way or other, try to help us. Otherwise we shall go on with this single-handed. But I am not getting any help from any other source. Then this movement had been, would have been very, very rapidly progressing. It is progressing, but... Becau

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our material disease means unclean heart. So we have to cleanse the heart. And this is the process. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. You are Swedish?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, I'm Swede. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But you can speak English very nicely.

Dr. Hauser: I lived in South America for about five years.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. What is called? South America. Oh, South Africa.

Śrutakīrti: South America.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, Johannesburg, South Africa. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: You lived in South America?

Dr. Hauser: In Brazil, yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Brazil.

Dr. Hauser: And I went to an English school there.

Prabhupāda: We have got our temple in Mexico.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Yes, that, that life might have taken different forms, that I'm quite sure of. And that the human being might not have existed for about a hundred thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: No human beings exists eternal. He's existing. But he accepting, he's accepting different situation.

Paramahaṁsa: There's proof of this in that recently there was a discovery in South America. I think it was in Kenya. Where they discovered a skeletal remains that were over hundreds of thousands of years old that was pre, what is it? Mag... What is it?

Haṁsadūta: Cro-magnon.

Paramahaṁsa: Cro-magnon, and it was the same human body as now, as we have now. They have discovered. And with this discovery, they say, completely all of Darwin's theories have been destroyed. This is a fact. Immediately see. He overlooked. He says: "I do not see any proof that human beings lived, millions of years ago. Therefore I think apes were existing." But what proof does he have? And how they have discovered bones and they have proven by tests that Cro-magnon era there was the same human body. It's a fact. And completely his, all his theories have been destroyed. Because he again, he was working with his illusory senses.

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. But there are the dinosaurs for example. The dinosaurs, yes. Which died and disappeared from the earth. And that is also a kind of evolution that has taken place.

Haṁsadūta: He says there are these prehistoric animals like dinosaurs, these big, gigantic animals, they are no longer existing now, but they existed at one time. So there, there was some evolution there.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: But the point is Vedic, Vedic conclusion is...

Prabhupāda: No, but, apart from Vedic conclusion, this example, that practically, when I go from this apartment to another apartment, so this apartment does not become another apartment. I go from this apartment to another apartment. He's missing that "I". Or "you". That is his nonsense.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these crows' place, newspaper, we'll not... We don't read newspaper. We don't touch it unless there is some news of ours. We don't touch it. What is the use of wasting time? They read so big, big bundle of newspaper. But we don't touch them. Oh, we have got (indistinct) literature here. Why should we waste our time in the crows' manifestation? The same politics, same Nixon, same Dixon, same Hitler. It is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Things which have already been chewed and thrown away, another person is crying, "Let me see if there's any juice." But you have already chewed. What juice you find there? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, same politics, same new leader, same he's a rascal. Just like Nixon advertises in news, "America now requires Nixon." So America accepted him and now America doesn't want him. Again another Nixon will come. This is going on, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, chewing the chewed. The people are not disgusted but we have tasted all these rascals. Why another Nixon?

Dr. Hauser: There doesn't seem to be any accumulation of knowledge.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just like you have come here, a little tendency for hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Your life is succ..., on the path of success. And there are other, millions, they're not interested. So, for them, the śāstra says, "They're simply working like cats and dogs." Just like dogs sometimes goes very fast this way, that way, that way, they're passing with motor car, this way, (makes barking sound) "Onh, onh, onh, onh, onh, onh." They're simply spoiling time. In America, I have seen, always, (makes automobile noise:) "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh." Here also. But we see these rascals spoiling time. But that will not appeal to the rascals. They'll say, "They are spoiling time. What these rascals are dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa on the Fifth Avenue?" They think, "Oh, they are crazy fellows." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. They are thinking us as in darkness. I am thinking, we are thinking, "They are in darkness." This is going on. But who is in darkness, that is to be decided by the supreme judgement of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I have written one, that book, Who is Crazy?

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we have no experience below zero degrees. But in Europe, America, there is places. In Russia also, below fifty degrees. But they do not stop their business. They know that "Winter season has come. It will go away again." So devotees, even they are in distressed condition, they know, "It has come due to my bad activities in the past. It will go away. Let me suffer and finish it." Just like if you become, all of a sudden, infected with some disease. So what? You'll go mad? No. You know that "I have infected this disease. Let me suffer a few days. It will go away. That's all." This is the mentality of the devotees. They are not disturbed. And if he's not disturbed, then he's fit for becoming liberated.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He also knows. Why this disappointment?

Banker: We have had a long history of debate in America over wealth. We have had one group, the fundamentalist Protestants, who argue that... Most of them are poor, and they feel very guilty if they have money. And then you have another group of Protestants, the Gospel of Wealth Protestants, who say that if you are truly holy, then it is better that the money be entrusted to your hands than to a man who is unholy. And then you have still another group that regards money as an end in itself, rather than a means to, committing you to do other things, And this confuses people in America. Your parents will be one thing, you'll be another. In my case, my mother is a Gospel of Poverty person. Blessed are the poor. She thinks you won't get into heaven unless you are poor. And I'm in the Gospel of Wealth category. (laughter) And you just select your own philosophy along the way. Carnegie was in that philosophy. He even wrote a book about it a one hundred years ago. The steel Carnegie, Carnegie steel.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Carnegie's name I know.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: "And also he needs that association with India leaders. Because America is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If she comes, then we shall have to give a nice speech so that she may be convinced.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Very flatter... I think, I think we should flatter her completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: No controversy. And this...

Prabhupāda: No, that, "If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, naturally everything will be correct." Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was Kṛṣṇa conscious. And can, you can read the portion during the reign of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, how nature was helping. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa. You keep one set of books here. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). "Due to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's being Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything was going on nicely. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you are on the post of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. So if you take standard, it will be good for everyone. And so far secular state is concerned, we are actually secular. In this movement, all classes of men are here."

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Brahmānanda: But it's like you were investing, taking goods on credit, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this membership became successful.

Brahmānanda: Then you devised the method for distribution.

Prabhupāda: This membership.

Śyāmasundara: Even the way you went to America in the beginning. You couldn't take money.

Prabhupāda: No.

Śyāmasundara: So you had some books...

Prabhupāda: Some books. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Publish...

Prabhupāda: That intelligence gives me, Kṛṣṇa, "You do this." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Yes. And in my materialistic life, He was taking away my intelligence. Just like this Bose, Bengal Chemical agency, I should have accepted immediately. Such a big concern. Simply by sitting, I would have brought ten thousand rupees per month in those days. But there was no good intelligence. I thought, "No, I cannot accept your terms. You must accept..." Because I was at that time young man, puffed-up, no brain, no sober brain. They were so attracted with me. They would have given later on all facilities, but I did not accept. Similarly, Smith Stanstreet, they were also very good company.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Kṛṣṇa has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8), Kṛṣṇa said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Kṛṣṇa will take my all money? If He's..." And actually that happened. He took my all money, all family, all friends and everything. (laughs) And He asked me, "Go to America. You'll get many money, much money, many friends. You go ahead, Come here." Yes. That was His intention. And I was sticking to limited money, limited friends, limited society. This is special favor.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru Mahārāja said, "Come, come with me." I was going. But that... Many things happened before this. Yes. And at last it became, in America.

Śyāmasundara: Did you tell everyone you were leaving, or you simply disappeared?

Prabhupāda: No, I never said. Oh, why shall I? I lost all friends, money, everything.

Guru dāsa: I met one gentleman from Allahabad... (Apparently someone comes in)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Guru dāsa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Get this light. (break) ...to this point, and you have joined. Do it nicely. It is the greatest movement for making the whole human civilization happy. Take it seriously.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: In our society he has come from America, he has come from Canada, I am from India, but we have forgotten all our family relations, we have nothing to do. We are in a different atmosphere. They can die for me, I can die for them, but we have no family relationship. He coming from America, I'm from India, he's from Canada, but the central point is Kṛṣṇa. You see? That is devotee. Tādera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vās, bhakta-sane vās. Therefore we have made this society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious let us live together. We are also living together in a house—we are eating, we are sleeping, doing this, but everything in a society of devotees. Just like if you want to do some business if you become a member of the association, stock selling exchange, you can do better business.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Production. (indistinct) cooperate. Just like United Nations. We can produce 20 times production that is required.

Guest: Quite right.

Prabhupāda: So much land.

Guest: Quite right. In America, Australia, I have seen.

Guest: (indistinct) so little water. You can put plastic sheets to collect water.

Prabhupāda: There will not be any scarcity of food. (indistinct)

Guest: Yes, if we work hard.

Prabhupāda: Not work hard, everyone should produce. But who's producing. Suppose in Delhi, such a big city. What is the population?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the population? Tell me.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual spark is not carried by, but he resides within the body. He is carried by his own karma, subtle, subtle desire is carried. Everyone is carried by his desire. Why did I come here, in America? I have got a desire to preach; therefore I've come. Otherwise I had no business to come here. So desire. So desire carries you. That is, the rascals, they do not know. Desire is there, they cannot see, but desire is there. Mind is there, intelligence is there; they cannot see. That is carried. The example is given, just like the aroma of a flower is being carried by the air. And nobody can see, but one can feel, "Oh, it is very good, nice aroma. Wherefrom it is coming?" But he has no eyes to see either the aroma or the air. Similarly, the soul after destruction of this body is being carried by the desire, but they have no eyes to see what is that desire, what is that soul, what is that intelligence. They are saying, "There is no soul." This is mostly stupidity.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They cannot answer. They simply give, they can give simply words, that's all. "United," they're speaking of unity, only flags are increasing. Daily another flag, another flag, another flag, and the flags will never unite. And still they are advertising "United Nations."

Yaśomatīnandana: When the war starts, United States...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in America, they started, United Nations, but they are going to fight with the Vietnam. United Nations.

Yaśomatīnandana: Unless one is free from the material concept of life, like "I'm American," "I'm Indian," "I'm Chinese," "I'm Japanese," how can he be peaceful? Because he has got some grudge against somebody else.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: Whereas as a devotee, he doesn't have any grudge against anybody. Therefore he's peaceful.

Devotee: He has a grudge against the demons.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee: Demons.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why we are accepting in Europe and America all them brāhmaṇa? They are not born in brāhmaṇa family. But why we are giving them sacred thread? Only for quality and work. That is said in the śāstra. Nārada Muni says that the quality and the symptoms is the real platform of judging who is brāhmaṇa, who is śūdra. Nārada said and Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented upon him that birth is immaterial. Quality and work is (indistinct). Otherwise how Caitanya Mahāprabhu can accept Haridāsa Ṭhākura as nāmācārya, the authority of the Holy Name? He was born in a Mohammedan family. And this Sanātana Gosvāmī, they are rejected from brāhmaṇa family because they're servants of Nawab Hussain Shah and they adopted Muslim way of life. Their name was also changed-Dabira Khāsa, Sākara Mallika, this Mallika (laughs), Sākara Mallika. But although they're born in brāhmaṇa family, but they're rejected from the brāhmaṇa family because they accepted service. Formerly the brāhmaṇas were so strict. Brāhmaṇa cannot accept any service. Then he becomes śūdra. To accept service is the business of the śūdra. And it is warned in the śāstra. If a brāhmaṇa becomes economically poor, he may act as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, not as a śūdra. Then it will be quite degradation. So now this, what is this brāhmaṇa, he's in service?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That because the principle was to live underneath a tree, go to Vṛndāvana, and have loincloth, just like the bābājīs are imitating. No. Even in full material opulence we can become a perfect devotee, provided you follow the principles. It doesn't matter. Gṛhe vā... It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga." It doesn't matter whether he lives in the forest or in the opulent city. It doesn't matter. He must be devotee. (break) Household life or in city life we should not be extravagant, unnecessarily eating, unnecessarily enjoying. No, that is not the... One man's food, another man's poison. We must know this philosophy. (break) ...and even we..., my health is not always going on nicely. Still, why I am trying? That is my ambition. I want to begin one revolution. Their godless civilization..., against godless civilization. That is my ambition. The America will be the best person to be educated in this line and to lead, to become the leaders. They're already leader, but they must be real leader now, so that the whole world may be happy. That I can give direction. If the topmost American gentlemen come to me, I can give them direction how they can become the world leader. Actual leader. Actual leader, not bogus leader. Because God has favored them, so many things. And this movement has been started from America. I started this movement from New York. So it should be taken very seriously by the government.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: ...important?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Hṛdayānanda: You're saying that America is the most important?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: You think...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I come to your country...

Hṛdayānanda: So perhaps...

Prabhupāda: ...because you're most important. Now you must... Under my guidance you must be real important, not false important.

Hṛdayānanda: So perhaps I should stay here then and preach.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Hṛdayānanda: If it is so important, I think perhaps I should stay here and help Rūpānuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Turn your whole nation, turn into God consciousness, because they've declared in the Constitution, "In God we trust." Now they must take it very seriously. What does it mean by "God"? What does it mean by "trust"? You take this propaganda. We are doing, actually. We trust in God; therefore we have sacrificed our whole life for God. This is trust in God. Not that smoking in the parlor, and you trust in God. Not that kind of trust. Real trust. Trust means first of all you know what is God. Suppose that if you say "Trust this man." But I must know what is this man. Then my trust will be convinced, that "He is very respectful man, he's rich man, he's able man..." Yes, I can trust. But simply trust in God, you do not know what is God, what is trust, and it is going on. Why this bluff? Ah? What you say?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: That that's right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must take this clue, that we Americans, we say "In God we trust." Now, every American should know what is God, what is trust. This is propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government must come forward to patronize this. This is my proposition. So you write articles, you are theologicians. The America must rise up to the occasion. They have pledged themselves, "In God we trust." Every human nation or every human being should be like that. In God they must trust. So America, especially taken up the slogan as part of Constitution. Now there should be regular educational program, that every child, every man, every woman will trust in God. And this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So? Am I wrong in my arguments?

Devotee: No, correct.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Devotee (1): When we try to introduce it sometimes, they very often say that it is sectarian.

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?

Devotee (1): They say that it represents...

Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness. So is it not for everyone? God consciousness is sectarian? Is it meant for certain sect? Or it is meant for human beings?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...for giving them that common ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty. You do it as theologicians. Bring them on the platform. This so-called church is going on. They're doing all sorts of sinful activities, and it is going on church and religion. Therefore the importance of Christian religion is diminishing. How they can bluff all the time? (japa)

Hṛdayānanda: When you came to America, for one year no one would help you.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Hṛdayānanda: When you came to America, you told us in Pittsburgh, that for one year no one would help you, you had no place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Hṛdayānanda: ...child. (Prabhupāda chuckles) The perfect example. (break) Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Real help for real friend is my Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). He's not only my friend, He's friend of, even of the ant. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's because they're rogues. Against their ideals. "Why you're laughing like fools? Does it belong to you or your father? This whole world? Why you are laughing like a fool?" You should have said like that. "You're laughing not like a gentleman; you're laughing like a fool. Can you say that it belongs to your father? Or you'll be allowed to stay here in America? After some years you'll be kicked out. Do you know where you were going? Why you are laughing like fools?" This should be the answer.

Karandhara: The Arabs, some of the Arabs, they say they believe in God, but that everyone else is...

Prabhupāda: Nobody believes in God. That is our proposition. Nobody believes... All this bogus. Now they should come to understand what is God. This, in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody believes, neither know what is God. Here we are giving the name, the address, the form, the activities, everything of God—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let all the Arabians, all the Americans, let come to us. Those who are chief men, intelligent man, we shall convince them. That is our preaching.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to stop spread of communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, now America has to do the same thing to stop demonism. Then your nation will be leader. You understand; you have trust in God. Now it is your business to trust in real God and work for Him. You cannot... I have explained already. You cannot stop communism. You have to stop demonism. That is your real business. Communism is another type of demonism. So if you remain a demon, so what is the use of stopping another demonism? The same example: stool, the upside is dried up. You cannot say, "Because it is upside of stool, it is better side." Stool is stool. Guer ei pita en opita. (?) (dog barking loudly) Come on. That's all right. He cannot make the condition of the world better by... Just like Professor Kotofsky. He was saying that there must be revolution. I was talking of authority. So the authority you must have to accept. So he said that authority is accepted upon revolution.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight. Then there will be peace in the world. The class of men who do not believe in God, they should be punished, because they are creating all the troubles. A man who trusts in God, he is the ideal man. He will never create any trouble. Therefore this science should be learned very scientifically. And we are prepared. And you also must be able to teach them. Then it will be successful."

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If you actually believe in God, then try to understand what is God. Otherwise how you can believe? If you do not know the person in whom you have to trust, how you can trust Him? Is it clear or not? I say, "Trust in Him," but if I do not know that man, how I can trust? You must explain that "This man is in this way trustworthy." Otherwise what is the meaning of my trust? This science should be understood, what is God and what is trust. That you discuss thoroughly, threadbare. Otherwise how you will be able to preach? Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God. This is the standard of civilization. God is there. Without God, there cannot be anything existing. This is first point. And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: That's a fact. In American history, whenever there was economic prosperity, always increase in sense gratification. Historically speaking, in America, whenever there was increase in prosperity, there was a trend towards irreligion and sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Luxury leads to poverty. (break) ...a living man, but if you are actually interested, why don't you do it, organized way. Sentiment, it is good, but if you do not understand the science, sentiment may be for the time being. Sentiment is sentiment. That will not act. They are admitting sinful activities?

Prajāpati: Yes, they are admitting that... They are an abyss of moral decay.

Prabhupāda: So let them know what are the sinful activities. These are the sinful activities. Close all the slaughterhouses. Close all these illicit sex brothel houses, and close the liquor houses.

Page Title:America (Conversations 1972 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=121, Let=0
No. of Quotes:121