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Advancement (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"advancement" |"advancements"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: advancements or advancement not "advance* civilization*"@5 not "spiritual advancement"@3 not "material advancement"@3

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, gradually. As soon as you kill, then you must be killed. This law is there: life for life. So where is your independence? Independence means you are inviting more sufferings, that's all. You go on, declare your independence. We are the only sane man. We have accepted that "We have no independence." Here Kṛṣṇa is asking. "Let me surrender unto..." That's all. So we have to convince the people, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. You are foolishly rascal. You are trying to be independent. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. You do that." That will make him happy. In many varieties of ways we have to convince them and prove that "You are foolishly thinking that there is independent, so-called scientific advancement, and only promising, 'Yes, in future we shall be like this, be like this.' " What is future? Just take account of your present position. Where is the history that you have...? If in the past something like that happened, then you can expect future. But in the past, the whole world history, there was no independence. (break) ...clearly says, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) "These rascals, out of false ego, and vidmūḍha, foolishly declaring that 'I am the doer of everything. I can do everything independently.' " Kartāham iti manyate. Manyate means "falsely think." Actually, he is nothing but a small particle. This egotism is the root cause of suffering. Discuss all these things amongst yourselves and preach and inform these rascals, so-called civilized scientists and philosopher. That is preaching. We have to present the truth in such a way that they will be convinced, "Yes." Within fifteen minutes the plane in Arabia, fifty-three men fell. Within fifteen.... It takes fifteen minutes to die. That's all. Where is your independence? You have invented so many nice machine, but when there is order from superior, "You nonsense, your machine.... You die immediately," what you can do? So why don't you accept there is superior? Hm? Why do they not accept? What is the reasoning? You cannot say?

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Advanced demon. Actually they are advanced demons, asura, asurī-bhāvam āśritaḥ, being infected with the contamination of atheism, godlessness. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (chants japa)

Hariśauri: They're actually very expert at avoiding the real issues.

Prabhupāda: That is.... A child can also do that. That is not expert. A child can advance in foolishness without any guidance. If the child touches fire and if somebody says, "This is advancement of knowledge," then imagine what is the position. Similarly, all these rascals, they are endeavoring. Just like Hiranyakasipu. He endeavored all through how to become immortal, which is impossible. But he advanced in that foolishness. Hiranyakasipu was such a big demon, his only idea was that "The devatās, they attack us sometimes. But now I shall attack them and plunder them. But because I am now practically immortal, what they will do? They cannot kill me. So I will go on with my demonic activities, and then they cannot do anything." This is his foolishness. He did not know that he's the greatest foolishness that he was trying to become immortal. When it was said by Brahmā that "No, no, it is not possible," still, he expected that "I shall become immortal." Brahmā flatly said, "No, no, this is not possible. I am not immortal. How can I give you immortality?" But he would not hear even Brahmā. He thought that, "In an indirect way I shall befool this man, Brahmā." "All right, sir, then give me this benediction." "What is that?" "I'll not die in the land." "All right." "Not in the water." "Yes." "Not in the air." "No, yes." So he thought that "The three things finished. Then where shall I die? There are three things only, land, water, sky. So he has given me benediction I shall not die anywhere of these three. So I have cheated now." And then "I shall not die in daytime." "Yes." "I shall not die in nighttime." But māyā dictated that there is another space or another place between day and night. (laughs) That he forgot. That is called sandhyā. That is accepted. But he forgot that. And Kṛṣṇa is more intelligent. He.... Hiraṇyakaśipu was not killed in daytime or nighttime. He was killed in the sandhyā. And so far land, sky, and water is concerned, that also was played with tricks, that He killed him on the lap. You cannot say it is land; you cannot say it is sky, you cannot say it is water. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that His devotee, Brahma, has given him this benediction....

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Every person was perfectly, spiritually...

Harikeśa: On the earth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then in Tretā-yuga one-fourth diminished. And then Dvāpara-yuga, half diminished. And in Kali-yuga, three-fourth diminished. Seventy-five per cent are all rogues, and twenty-five per cent... That is expected, but that is now diminishing. They are all rogues with the advancement of Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Therefore there is no other method to save them. Harer nāmaiva kevalam. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Incorrigible. Everyone will be incorrigible. Only hope is Hare Kṛṣṇa. The whole Vedic system is to make human being correct. Being incorrect, they are suffering in this material world repetition of birth, death. Sometimes man, sometimes dog. So to correct him so that he comes to his original position, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and go back to home. This is the whole Vedic civilization, to correct him. Therefore it is called saṁskāra. Saṁskāra means correction. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.(?)To correct him and bring him to the brahminical stage. From pig stage to brahminical stage. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone is like pig in this material world. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now don't live like pig." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "Now, you, My children... " He was advising, instructing His son that "Now this life is not to live like pig." This is the first instruction, because everyone is more or less pig, living like pig. Pig means he has no discrimination of eating and he has no discrimination of sex. That is pig. And everyone is like that. No discrimination of eating, especially in the Western. And no discrimination of sex. Pigs. Big pig or small pig, that's all. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now My dear sons, don't spoil your life living like pigs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means "In the human society you should not live like pig and very hard labor." So the whole civilization at the present moment they want to live like pig, and to live like pig they are working like an ass. And that is civilization, working like ass to become a pig. You tell them!

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, many of them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I thought only Indians attended.

Harikeśa: Oh, no.

Prabhupāda: No, no. White men. Yes. And in Melbourne the priests also appreciated. So any sane man will appreciate our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These are very strong words, that "You have created a civilization of pig, and for making perfect that civilization you are working like ass." So what is the advancement? A ass is trying to become a pig. What is that civilization? The ideal is to become a pig, and for that, fulfillment of that idea, they are working like ass. Is it not? Just see. Think over.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we speak like that in the classrooms, whew!

Bhavānanda: They like it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very strong.

Prabhupāda: This is the fact. Therefore Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are very much proud: "I have got ninety-nine percent votes and I have become President." But what you are? You are another big pig only. Who has voted you? The voters are pigs and asses and camel and dogs. So if these animal vote for somebody, then what he is? Is there... Are... Their votes are calculable at all? Votes by the dogs, pigs, camels, and... śva-viḍ-varāha. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara, and asses. So what is the value of these votes? And that is going on, democracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they vote for human beings?

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa, he will sleep. That is the test. When you have seen so many reading but sleeping, that means there is no Kṛṣṇa. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra. Sleeping is māyā, so if he's thinking of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be sleeping.

Jayapatākā: No, I'm talking not about the reading half, but the service half.

Prabhupāda: Service also... Everything depends on advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa is there, either you read or work as a coolie, the same thing.

Jayapatākā: You instructed that service is as good as reading, but only... We see that devotees only doing service without reading, then they become agitated in their mind.

Prabhupāda: That means there is no Kṛṣṇa. The real disease is there is no Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he'll be agitated, either reading or working.

Jayapatākā: So how can they, the Kṛṣṇa...?

Prabhupāda: That, if they... One must go through this practice. Everyone must attend the ārā..., maṅgala-ārātrika. One must attend this. One must attend this. Otherwise no prasādam. If one says, "I am sick," no prasādam. "You are sick. You cannot digest. That's all." And sick, sleeping, and at the time of prasādam, voracious eating, that is not sickness. If you are sick, you cannot take food. Don't take. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga there are many things we don't want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.

Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays ten lakhs per month.

Prabhupāda: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that "noncooperation," so "Boycott British court. We are not going on." So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that "I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?" So the resolution was, "No, we should noncooperate. We don't want money. We should noncooperate." So when... He fought in the meeting that "This should be withdrawn." So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?" So he replied, "I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs." The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Niyamagrahaḥ is not good. Niyama means regulative principles. And niyama-āgrahaḥ is niyamāgrahaḥ. Āgrahaḥ means not to accept. And niyama-āgraha. Āgraha means only eager to follow the regulative principles, but no advancement spiritually. Both of them are called niyamāgrahaḥ. So the basic principle is that niyamāgrahaḥ is not recommended. The real business is that.... And if we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simple method, chanting twenty-four hours, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31), then things will be automatically adjusted. You cannot find in Kali-yuga everything is being done very correctly, to the point. That is very difficult. Just like our poet, Allen Ginsberg. He was always accusing me, "Swamijī, you are very conservative and strict." Actually, I told him that "I am never strict, neither I am conservative. If I become conservative, then I cannot live here for a moment. So I'm not at all conservative." (laughter) I was cooking, and I saw in the, what is called, refrigerator of Yeargen, Yeargon? What is his...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (sic:) Jergen. That boy you were staying with.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah! I saw he kept some pieces of meat for his cat. So still, I kept my things in that refrigerator. What can be done? I had no place at that time. Jaya. (break) ...will be little earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. The walk should be earlier.

Prabhupāda: Quarter to six. And class beginning quarter to seven. Because the sun is rising earlier.

Madhudviṣa: It's getting warmer.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The system is done by some leaders. Anything... Just like our, this system we have introduced. I am the leader. Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. So if the communists and those who have brain, if they find a better leader for better situation, why they'll not? And they want for revolution also. They are in favor of revolution. Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. That is their theory. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. So why they will not accept another revolution for further advancement?

Madhudviṣa: One of the main problems I can see is to divorce our movement from religious concept because...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?

Satsvarūpa: It's religion because it's not empirical fact.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: It's not an empirical fact.

Prabhupāda: What is that empirical fact?

Satsvarūpa: That after you die, you take another body.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then what is that life? That is the question. That life is soul. You have to accept. (break) ...car stop. Some machine broken. As soon as the machine is placed, now the motor car is fit for running, but not for the machine, but for the driver. When the driver is not there, you cannot create or purchase a driver. That is not possible. You can repair the machine, but without driver the machine will not run. So why they should be blind about this fact? What is this knowledge, advancement of knowledge? The body is created. If it is accepted-body is created by these material elements—now create another body. Just like dollmakers make a body, you also make a body, very beautiful woman, and give it life. Why they cannot do it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But even accepting that the soul is the living force, they may say that "Well, we're living in this material world and we have to deal with matter, so what is the importance of all this knowledge?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They may say that "We're living in the material world in spite of this knowledge, so we have to deal with material circumstances."

Prabhupāda: But you do not like to die. Why do you die with your material knowledge? Nobody wants to die but why you die? Then where is your material knowledge. You do not like to be old man. Where is your material knowledge that you can stop old age? Then you have to accept that your material knowledge is not perfect. Why you are so much proud of this false knowledge? Unnecessarily.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we don't see that you are able to stop death.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Madhudviṣa: Marx was the original.

Prabhupāda: Now they are not in agreement. Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They saw practically... It was impractical.

Prabhupāda: That means for advancement of knowledge you have to change. They accept this theory, revolution. So if you get better situation, why you'll not change?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept a better theory when it is presented.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is presented. This is the beginning, that "Your knowledge is imperfect. You are believing your eyes, but that is not perfect knowledge. You have to see with knowledge." Paśyati jñāna... Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. That is seeing, not seeing like a child. A child is seeing, a motor car is running, a airplane is running. He thinks a wonderful machine, but it is not the machine. It is the pilot. It is the driver. A child cannot see it. The father knows that it is not the machine. The machine may be however perfectly made; it cannot run. There must be a perfect pilot also. Just like we get on aeroplane. There are hundreds of men. If there is any trouble, then the pilot can stop it, not the hundreds of men.

Mahendra: In these Communist countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, such as Russia...

Prabhupāda: Not Communist country, everywhere, a pilot is required. Not Communist country.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Every country has a leader.

Morning Walk -- March 22, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yei bhaje sei boro. Here is woman (indistinct) engaged in worshiping (indistinct), she is great. Yei bhaje sei boro. So why should we hurt woman? Anyone who is engaged in service, he is big. The dress is not important. The advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is important. We have to see from that formula. Just like we sometimes have to dress like ordinary gentleman and sell books. Does it mean he is deviating? No. He's serving Kṛṣṇa, dress or no dress. It doesn't matter. If you stick to the dress, "Oh, I have taken sannyāsī, I cannot..." He cannot sell the books. Where is your service influence? You must give service first. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is that Līlāvatī? No. It is Līlāvatī? No. I was thinking that she is Līlāvatī dressed like a widow, because she never likes to be widow. (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's Hridayānanda's old wife.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's Hridayānanda's old wife.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Dayānanda's?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hridayānanda Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Pañcadraviḍa: She is widow.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is widow, because Kṛṣṇa is ultimate husband. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen so, so many advertisements. One has to take at least five to six types of.

Pañcadraviḍa: No peace of mind.

Madhudviṣa: In this way the Kali-yuga will progress, and they'll eat less and less food and take more pills, and they will think it is advancement.

Prabhupāda: Mm. Yes.

Madhudviṣa: Housewives think like that already. They take some pills, and they become very slim and they don't have to eat so much. They just smoke cigarettes and drink coffee and take pills. And they're saving money, they think. They don't have to buy so much food, and they're able to remain slim and trim. So in Kali-yuga, as the food supply runs out, so people won't notice.

Lokanātha: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says they will be starving.

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Lokanātha: As Kali-yuga advances, they're mentioning one time, there will be durbhikṣā, means not even bhikṣā will be given to sādhus.

Prabhupāda: Yes, not even bhikṣā will be available. I don't think bhikṣā is available in Western countries, eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just like now medical science is improving means hospital increasing. That means people are becoming more diseased. And they are taking it advanced.

Dr. Patel: No, no, modern advancement is required, even hospitals. So modern medicine is always preventative.

Prabhupāda: Stop disease; otherwise where is improvement? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...poetry, kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). As soon as the living entity desires sense gratification, immediately māyā captures.

Dr. Patel: That is what I want. I really meant. Man is producing the desire. You cannot...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi.

Dr. Patel: New (indistinct), do you mean to say?

Prabhupāda: No, old (indistinct), everything. Yes, all, all squared up, all accounts squared up. Begin new chapter of your life. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as one begins devotional service, he shall be clean of all sinful reactions. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: So why not stay for a longer time here?

Prabhupāda: Nobody comes to hear.

Dr. Patel: When you are staying here in Bombay your health does improve very well.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is the activity which concerns. In the university there is only activity of education, learning. And here, all the criminals are violating the laws, they are put together. But superficially they look the same room, same food, same office, same typewriter. So it is the question of understanding why it is called criminal department and why it is called university. So as soon as it is university department, that is good. The same building, the same dictaphone, the same typewriter, same table, same chair, when they are used for Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The same money, everything, it looks like that. Therefore they cannot understand. The nirviśeṣavādī and the śūnyavādī, they: "Spiritual means these things should be zero." They say it should be zero. "No table, no chair, no house, no, no, no, no..." But that is (laughs) ignorance. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. The things which are usable by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, if we give up them, prapañcikā, as material, that is foolishness. That they do not know. They have yet to learn. It is Rūpa Gosvāmī's injunction. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ. Parityāga means giving up: "Oh, it is material." So we are not such fools, śūnyavādī and nirviśeṣavādī. We are not such fools. Arjuna, he thought that not killing is better than killing, but Kṛṣṇa convinced him, "Yes, killing is better than not killing." Therefore he, after reading Bhagavad-gītā, he took it, "Yes, killing is better than not killing." Generally people understand not killing is better than killing. But Kṛṣṇa explained to Arjuna, "No, if there is My desire, then killing is better than not killing." And that is knowledge. Therefore we have to carry out simply Kṛṣṇa's order or His representative's order. Then it is all good. Either killing or not killing, it doesn't matter because it is coming directly from the Supreme. And that is spiritual. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to kill? He was presenting as very good man, that "I shall not kill." And that's.... Actually that is good. Even if you enemy excuse him, that is very good idea. But if it is not desired by Kṛṣṇa, then it is bad. So our principle is: We have to act according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is good; otherwise bad. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So in spite of advancement of knowledge, because they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore they are all duṣkṛtinaḥ, all sinful men. That is the test. So it is very difficult to understand this philosophy, but this is the fact. We are not going to be followers of zero-vādīs or impersonal-vādīs. We remain completely in the varieties, but these varieties are usable only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. You cannot stop the varieties. You have to change the quality of the varieties. Just like we are eating. It is not possible to stop eating. Why shall I stop eating? But the quality is changed. It is prasādam.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You explained very nicely how these boys and girls, they will sit on the floor. What is the need to manufacture chair? So a civilization which is geared to unnecessarily increasing the necessities is simply glorified...

Prabhupāda: Wasting time.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is not the real business of human life.

Prabhupāda: But they are thinking, "This is advancement. To sit on the floor is primitive, but to sit on the chair is civilized."

Hari-śauri: Well, when we were on the plane in the first-class, we were eating with our hand, and I could see, these men, they were eating with knife and fork, and they were looking like this. And they were.... I could see what they were thinking. They were disgusted: "Here are these men, sitting in first-class, eating with their hands, very primitive and crude." And they're eating with knife and fork, and I was thinking, "What are they eating? Some beef or some meat preparation, like this." But they're thinking they're civilized.

Prabhupāda: Then why? Why?

Hari-śauri: Yes. "Because I have knife and fork, now I'm civilized."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember when I first went to Vṛndāvana and I saw in the villages how they were using dirt and charcoal to clean their pots and pans...

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Material amenities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These things are described in Vedic terms as anartha. They are not very important or very valuable to human advancement. What is really essential is advancement in knowledge.

Guest: One of the principles upon which I have lived is a question of involvement with the people around me in trying to do things better than they have been done before.

Prabhupāda: But you must know first of all what is the aim of life and what is better. That we must know. So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that we are not interested in God; then whole thing is spoiled. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are not interested in God. We want to be happy by adjusting the external energy of God. That is blind leadership. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This will never be successful, and it is blind leadership because we do not know what is the aim. If you know the aim of life and if we make program according to that aim, then it will be successful. Blindly everyone is manufacturing his objective, different leaders, different isms. The Communists, they have got different aims. The capitalists, they have got different aims. The socialists, they have got different aims.

Guest: Is it true that there are more young people now in the world that are giving more serious thought to what life is really all about?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rādhāvallabha Prabhu...

Prabhupāda: Can you challenge? "Do this first. What is your science? This is rascal science. You give up the major problem; you are making research how many atoms are working. What you will do by understanding atoms are going?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because it's very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Difficult? Then you are not scientist. You cannot touch the difficult problem. Childish thing, you are bluffing children, that's all. You have no power to tackle the difficulties. You cannot give life to the dead body.

Hari-śauri: (break) But if we don't make the research, then how will we ever solve these problems?

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (inaudible) ...some tickets for going to moon. What they are doing with the tickets? You know that Pan American sold tickets for going to moon? You do not know? (laughs) They sold tickets, because in your country, you have got lot of money, any kind of cheating can draw money. (laughs)

Devotee (6): They're selling tickets to go to the moon?

Prabhupāda: Not now. They sold in the beginning. They're so hopeful now that "We shall go to the moon." Some family (inaudible) "Oh, scientific advancement. Yes, they go to the moon. So I have got money. Why not purchase a ticket so I can go to the moon?" There are many persons in your country who can very easily pay $50,000 for purchasing tickets for going to the moon planet.

Hari-śauri: It's like Rāvaṇa's promise of being able to go to the heavenly planets by climbing up the staircase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...believed in the words of śāstra. Even I am not scientist, still I shall.... It is all childish. And it has proved childish. I do not say that I am better than the scientists. No. But on the words of śāstra, I say this is childish. They'll never be able to go to the moon. (break) The Americans who are here, mostly they are tourists. They're not residents.

Devotee (6): Some of them are retired, I believe.

Prabhupāda: Some, they're some. Otherwise they are tourists.

Devotee (5): Yes. (break) (end)

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Necessity means more you become advanced, the more necessity. Necessity mother of invention. Advancement, they are manufacturing so many things. There is no necessity of car, but people are advanced, they are inventing: "Now comfortably I shall..." So necessity means advanced life. No necessity means dull life. That's all.

Devotee (1): The atheists fear that they've put the necessity on the wrong object.

Prabhupāda: That means they're rascals. If there is no necessity, that means dull life, dull brain. The madman will think there is no necessity of clothing: "I can remain naked." And actually remains. He's a madman. And a sensible man, he requires dress, nice dress, first-class dress. So this is the difference between intelligent and dull. Dull has no necessity. Intelligent has necessity.

Devotee (4): He has necessity for God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Out of millions and millions people one has the necessity for Kṛṣṇa. (break) Material scientists, they are creating necessities, television, and they are thinking advanced. What is the use of television? There is no use. But this is advanced civilization.

Hari-śauri: In relative terms.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is necessity, what is the advancement? There is dull matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Apareyam. The dull matter is inferior energy. And the anya-prakṛti, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho, the living entities, they have got necessities. Dull matter, there are no necessities. The more one is dull, his necessities are less. And those who are advanced, his necessities begin.

Hari-śauri: Well, they use.... They argue that, say like in India, where there's no great material development...

Prabhupāda: Then we shall judge the quality of necessity. That is another thing. First of all necessities, then quality.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First of all we have to understand that one who has no necessity, he's in the lowest status. One who has got necessity, he is in higher status.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then higher, higher, higher, higher—where's the higher status? When you necessitate Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. That necessity, that without Govinda I'm feeling everything vacant. That is necessity. That makes it finer (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: :What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.

Devotee (2): :(break) ...very much burdened, because they have some obligation to God. So therefore now they want to.... They consider it an obligation.

Prabhupāda: :Obligation we must follow. That I have already said, that you have obligation to the state, you must pay tax. Otherwise you are criminal. So obligation must be there. If somebody is giving you protection, you must be obliged. If you don't feel obliged, then you'll be punished.

Hari-śauri: Gratitude is a sign of intelligence.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The guests, you may read aloud to them. (long pause; Śrīla Prabhupāda exchanges a few Hindi sentences with a woman)

Nalinīkaṇṭha: "The whole purpose of Vedic civilization and of reading the Vedas is to attain the perfect stage of devotional service in the human form of life. According to the Vedic system, therefore, from the very beginning of life the brahmacārya system is introduced so that from one's very childhood—from the age of five years—one can practice modifying one's human activities so as to engage perfectly in devotional service. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter Two, verse 40, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt: 'Even a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.' Modern civilization, not referring to the verdicts of Vedic literature, is so cruel to the members of human society that instead of teaching children to become brahmacārīs, it teaches mothers to kill their children even in the womb, on the plea of curbing the increase of population. And if by chance a child is saved, he is educated only for sense gratification. Gradually, throughout the entire world, human society is losing interest in the perfection of life. Indeed, men are living like cats and dogs, spoiling the duration of their human lives by actually preparing to transmigrate again to the degraded species among the 8,400,000 forms of life. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is anxious to serve human society by teaching people to perform devotional service, which can save a human being from being degraded again to animal life.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Modern education, they cannot understand that this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease is a botheration. They do not understand that. Why they accept it? Accept it, they think there is no other way. But if there is a way to stop this, why do they not take it? Hm? What is the value of this education? They cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Nobody likes death, but death is there. Nobody likes to become old, but the old age is there. Why they set aside these big problems and he's proud of scientific advancement of knowledge? What kind of education this is? If they cannot distinguish between right and wrong, then what is the result of this education? Education means one must be able to distinguish between the right and wrong. But they cannot, or even they do know that death is not good, but why they are not trying how to stop death? Where is the advancement? They are very much proud of advancement of science. Where is the advancement? You cannot stop death. You cannot stop old age. You can manufacture advanced medicine, but why don't you stop disease? Take this pill, there will be no more disease. Where is that science? Hm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: They say they're working on it.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Bluffing.

Gopavṛndapāla: Just like we say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a gradual process, they say their scientific advancement is also a gradual process.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
(SB 7.5.31)

They do not know what is the aim of life. Therefore there is no spiritual education. They do not know. Read further. You shall always hold classes. Read these books, discuss, try to understand. Then time will be properly utilized. Don't talk useless things. Some engagement. So long as you are engaged in the service of the Deity, that is very good. Otherwise, you should hold class, read these books, discuss amongst them. Then the proper utilization of time. Avyartha-kālatvam (Cc. Madhya 23.18-19). Advancement of devotional service means always be alert whether a moment is misused. Because you cannot get back even a moment of your life if you pay millions of dollars. Not possible. 1967, 10th June, 5 o'clock, you had to do something, and if you have missed, then that 5 o'clock, 10th June, 1960, ah, '76, will never come back, even you pay millions of dollars. So if that moment is improperly passed, then what is more loss than that? So avyartha-kālatvam. We should not let even a moment of our life misused. Avyartha-kālatvam. Nāma-gāne sadā ruciḥ. This is advanced life of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prītis tad vasati sthāle (Cc. Madhya 23.18-19). Attachment for living at places where Kṛṣṇa had His pastimes, like Vṛndāvana, Mathurā, Dvārakā. Prītis tad vasati sthāle. And avyartha-kālatvam (Cc. Madhya 23.18-19). These are advanced spiritual consciousness. Go on.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Everyone tries. That is not a particular job for you. Everyone is trying; the cats and dogs, they are also trying. The cat also very much anxious to give protection to the cubs, innocent, helpless. The dog also giving. The birds, they're bringing food for the offspring, and as soon as the mother comes, they become very much engladdened, "Oh, here is food, here is food." And they, with the mouth, they.... So this kind of sentiment is there even in the cats, dogs, animals, birds, beasts. That is natural. But we do not know how to do actual welfare activity. Somebody's engaged with his family. Somebody is engaged with his own body. Somebody.... This is only development of consciousness. The animals, they are interested with the body, himself. The human being, they are interested with the extension of the body. Just like I am alone now. Now when I become, you young men, then I have got my wife, then my interest is also for my wife. The wife's interest is for the husband. In this way, children, then interest extended, husband, wife, children. Then, this is family-wise. Then little advancement, of the society. Little advancement, community. Just like in your country, the sense of black community, white community. Then, above that, for the nation. When there is war between America and other nation, then you black and white people forget the small interest for national interest. You advance to fight, to lay down your life. So in this way we can make progress, but such progress is not perfection. Such progress is not perfection. The example is given, just like there is tree, and the whole tree is full of branches, twigs and leaves and flowers and fruits. So somebody is watering the fruit, somebody is watering the leaf, somebody is watering the branches, somebody the twigs, but everyone is improper. One who is watering the root, he's perfect. He knows how to do things. If you water the root of the tree, it will go to the twigs, it will go to the leaves, it will go to the fruit, it will go to the flower. One who does not know the root, however he might be working very diligently for the poor humanity or community or society, they will never be successful to gain the result, peace and prosperity. They are forgetting the root. And root is God. So they must put water in the root. Then it will be all right.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri:

nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti
pratyavāyo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trāyate mahato bhayāt
(BG 2.40)

"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Hari-śauri: Purport: "Activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or acting for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa without expectation of sense gratification, is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed, otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent;, whereas, in material activity, without one-hundred-percent success, there is no profit. Ajāmila performed his duty in some percentage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent, by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 'If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And, what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly?' (SB 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gain the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body. But work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness carries the person again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brāhmaṇa or in a rich aristocratic family, that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You have to approach tattva-darśī, who has seen God through spiritual eyes. So one has to approach such a person who actually knows God, seen God, and approach him, praṇipātena. Not like that childish challenge. By surrender, praṇipātena. Then question. First of all surrender. Praṇipātena, paripraśnena. Not by challenging. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore one has to go to guru, where there is no challenge. There is no question of challenging. You can make question. That is another thing. But not challenge. Then you'll be deceived. Therefore first condition is praṇipātena. Without praṇipāta, you cannot make advancement. So this philosophy, our philosophy or anyone's philosophy.... Philosophy is not for our or yours. Philosophy is philosophy. That is a science. Philosophy is the science of sciences. That is the description of philosophy. In our college days we were philosophy student of Professor, Dr. W. S. Hartford. He defined that "Philosophy is the science of sciences." There are different departments of scientific knowledge. When they are taken together, the original science is philosophy. Philosophy is the science. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam etad jñānam. Tad ajñānaṁ yad anyathā. It is not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. To know the Absolute Truth, that is philosophy. So the simple philosophy is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that:

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That they are coming.

Mādhavānanda: (break) ...of birds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.

Hari-śauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels, there was one just down there earlier on.

Prabhupāda: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men. And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.

Mādhavānanda: Once you wrote Gargamuni Swami in Nepal that even if they will not listen, simply by your being there, even if they see you chant japa sitting on a street corner, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Jayādvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. (break) Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.

Mādhavānanda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Pure devotional service is one. So long you are not on the pure platform, there are many. (break)

Makhanlāl: ...between the neophyte devotee who is following the principles.

Prabhupāda: Neophyte devotee is not on the topmost platform. He's learning. (loud foghorn blowing in background)

Makhanlāl: So a neophyte devotee who's following the principles of sādhana-bhakti is still considered pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Makhanlāl: So at different levels of advancement of pure devotional service.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda once gave the example of a mango, that when the mango is raw, it's still a mango. Then it becomes ripe—also a mango. So pure devotional service is different when we begin.

Prabhupāda: So raw condition and ripe condition is not the same. The mango is the same.

Devotee (1): The captain of that boat must know that you're here on the island today, because those whistles that he just blew were salutes. It's a master salute from the best man to the best man. He must know that you are here.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Makhanlāl: In the Sixth Canto of the Bhāgavatam you made a statement that if a devotee chants the holy name even once inoffensively, this protects him eternally. Is it possible for a devotee...

Prabhupāda: Why you take advantage of chants one only? Why not sixteen? Opportunist. (laughter) Not devotee.

Makhanlāl: If one has even a small amount...

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: We have got many places. Los Angeles we purchased one church, a very big church. That church was vacant, nobody was coming. They tried so much to invite men, but nobody was coming. But after we have purchased, the church is the same, and the inhabitants are residents of Los Angeles, but it is always packed up.

Kern: I think there are many good signs, however—your own movement. And we have..., I noticed you use the beads. We have a priest, Father Peyton, who gathers thousands to recite the rosary. Mostly young people. There are other movements that gather young people, which require a discipline. And perhaps since we think more in terms of the individual rather than the group, and the individual's decision, we possibly have forgotten that group discipline is very important. Therefore the attraction of your own movement and many others like that.... Within the Roman Catholics, there is now a very hopeful sign of mostly young people who are in what is called the charismatic movement, seeking to learn more of the Holy Spirit, seeking to change their lives for the better-however, at the same time, staying involved in the world. And it could be said that they seek to carry on the redemptive work of Jesus that he wishes done in the world, since he would be the key to our, to our advancement in the world. Our advancement, I say, and I'm not speaking of myself as a young man. But I think many young people in this charismatic movement, this is within Protestants and Catholics and others, I would say. There's a great emphasis among Jewish young people in the schools, to the development of the Jewish religion.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So, if we keep the human society in darkness about the aim of life, that is not civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). I think you understand Sanskrit. Svārtha-gatim, the real self-interest, is to go back to home, back to Godhead. For that purpose, the human life is given by nature as an opportunity in the cycle of birth and death. So if we don't take advantage of this human form of life, when we can realize God and go back to home, back to Godhead, then it is misused. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They're enamored by the external energy of God, this material energy, and they are thinking that utilizing the material energy, the dog is running on his legs, and if he can run on motorcar, that is advancement. But the business is the running, without any purpose.

Indian man: Is it not better to run than to stand still and sleep?

Prabhupāda: No, running is not stopped, but running must be with some purpose, aim of life. That they do not know. They are missing the aim of life.

Indian man: I meant, Swamiji, rajas is a better manifestation than tamas.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to go above rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lust.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is your problem: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9)." Find out this verse.

Jayādvaita: Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, find out. This is knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means one must be able to see that what are the actual problems. Just like the scientists, the philosophers, they're trying to solve so many problems. But first of all, fix up what is the problem. Temporary problem, to make a solution, that is going on. But actual problem is this: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The soul is not destroyed, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, at any time. One should be very prudent to see that "If I have no birth and no death, then what is this nonsense, birth and death?" That is knowledge. Why I am dying? Why there is birth problem? Why there is death problem? And as soon as there is birth problem, there is disease problem, there is old age problem. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says.... What is the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi?

Jayādvaita: It's in the list of items of knowledge, "The perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the cure, medicine, is also given: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then.... Everyone has to give up this body, but a person who is in thorough knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, then he, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). Find out his verse.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...building or something...

Viśvakarmā: Yes, it's a very big exhibit, scientific achievements. (break) ...come and see it.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...their achievement, no more death? As soon as you ask this question, matte kara heṭ. Baḍo baḍo baḍo badora(?) baro baro pet laṅkā diṅgaya matte karo heṭ. "Big, big monkey, big, big, belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." What scientific advancement? Do you think there will be no more death? Matte kore heṭ: (?)"Yes, we are trying." Answer them, "What is your achievement?" All achievement will be, remain in your back and you'll have to die. So what you have done, insurance, that you'll enjoy this? You'll be kicked out of the scene at any moment. What you have done for this? What is the answer? Mattaḥ kore heṭ "Yes, we are trying." (laughter) Nonsense, you are trying. And we have to see this nonsense. We are not so fool. And if they say, "What you are doing?" "Yes, we are doing that. How to conquer over death." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti (BG 4.9). That is we are trying. That is real scientific. And what is method? Very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.65). "Without any doubt, he comes to Me." This is science. Why shall I waste time? Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged one scientist in California that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" He said, "That I cannot say." What you have spoken all this nonsense? Mattaḥ kore heṭ. And when there is challenge, mattaḥ kore heṭ. Otherwise, baro baro bagara, baro baro phet, big, big monkey, big, big belly. And when the real question is there, mattaḥ kore het. Ceylon jumping, melancholy. Hanumān jumped over the ocean, so other monkeys, they also become very proud: "I am..., Hanumān is our leader, we can...," "Can you jump over Ceylon?" Mattaḥ het. (break) ...speak all these things, Indian villagers, they will immediately believe. One cobbler.... I think I narrated this story. Nārada Muni was going to Vaikuṇṭha. Did I say that?

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Anyone?

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

Do it very nicely. Push Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement vigorously. If you keep the people in ignorance like dogs and hogs, what is the value of advancement of knowledge? So many universities? But discuss this point, our charge, explain to them, and let someone defend them, someone talking for, and let him decide.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ?

Prabhupāda: Whether this is fact. It is fact, but even if we do not accept it, what is the wrong there, find out. We don't find any wrong, everything. Because Kṛṣṇa said it, then it's all right. Because they will say it is too sectarian, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's the most miscreant, sinful and ass and lowest of the mankind; he has lost his all knowledge. This is our accusation. Now defend. Any gentleman will protest that "I am such a respectable gentleman, and because I do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then I'll fall amidst these groups? What is this?" They will say. Now you'll have to prove, that "You are not a gentleman."

Kīrtanānanda: Gentleman means one who is cultured. So culture is not of the body but of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: But what do you mean by culture? First of all, the question will be "What do you mean by culture?"

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Culture means advancement in knowledge. We say, "You're a gentleman of culture." That means he's advanced in knowledge. So what is the advancement of knowledge? Next question will be.

Rakṣaṇa: Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna that that was to know that he was factually not his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is advancement of knowledge. Otherwise, what is the difference between this bird and the human being? He's also dancing very jolly, but he has no knowledge that he's not this body. So if the human being also remains falsely jolly without any knowledge of his existence, then what is the difference between these birds, dogs and human beings? Why we say low grade, animals? He's living in his own way. He has got all the facilities of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Just you have all the same things. Where is the difference between you and him? Why you say advanced in knowledge?

Rakṣaṇa: Nowadays they say that they're advanced in knowledge even without any sophistication at all, while Arjuna, when he was giving his arguments to Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, don't bring Arjuna now. Just speak on commonsense platform. As soon as we bring Arjuna, they think it is sectarian. We are talking on human common sense. What is advancement of knowledge?

Devotee: They say if it's advancement of knowledge, if they are advanced, why do they have to die? The animals are dying, and they're accepting that, and the human beings also die. But why does he have to die if he's advanced in knowledge?

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, don't bring Arjuna now. Just speak on commonsense platform. As soon as we bring Arjuna, they think it is sectarian. We are talking on human common sense. What is advancement of knowledge?

Devotee: They say if it's advancement of knowledge, if they are advanced, why do they have to die? The animals are dying, and they're accepting that, and the human beings also die. But why does he have to die if he's advanced in knowledge?

Rakṣaṇa: Even if you are advanced in knowledge, you still have to die.

Kīrtanānanda: Advancement of knowledge is to distinguish between what is temporary and what is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Discuss on further.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They may say though that even the human beings, the necessities are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge? The bird is chirping, dancing, they're living, they are sleeping, they have got sex. So everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge?

Kīrtanānanda: We carry out these activities in relationship with the eternal soul. So that by performing the activities one is gaining knowledge.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge? The bird is chirping, dancing, they're living, they are sleeping, they have got sex. So everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge?

Kīrtanānanda: We carry out these activities in relationship with the eternal soul. So that by performing the activities one is gaining knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided you have got the knowledge of the soul, then you are advanced than the birds and beasts. Otherwise, where is the advancement? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human beings, they can inquire about the spirit soul. These birds, beasts, they cannot.

Kīrtanānanda: Then we find so many purported religious people. Just like Christians, they may say "Well, I believe in the soul," but nonetheless they are going on with their materialistic civilization.

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there's a war or whether...

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there's a war or whether...

Prabhupāda: Well, that you should.... Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"—what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividaiva śrūyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life. Artificial necessities of life do increase your so-called comforts, but if you forget your real business, that is suicidal. We want to stop this suicidal policy. We don't want to stop the modern advancement of technology, although the so-called advancement technology is suicidal. But we don't talk of this. (laughter) Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore given a simple formula-chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even in your technological factories, you can chant. What is the wrong there? You go on pulling on with your machine and chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa.

Kīrtanānanda: They know that if people take up the chanting, gradually they will give up this technology.

Prabhupāda: That is, of course.

Kīrtanānanda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lāvaṇyam, now you know very well in the Western country. Beauty increases by having long hair. (laughter) I was just trying to recite this verse only, and now see how it is current. Who expected that this foretelling is there in the Bhāgavatam? To increase beauty, have long hair. Is it not? Now just see. How five thousand years this thing was foretold? That is the proof. There was no hippie movement then. (laughs) But Vyāsadeva foretold that in the Kali-yuga if one keeps long hair he will think himself as very beautiful. There are so many things. Ultimately, with the advancement of Kali-yuga you'll have no food. Food means there will be no food grains, there will be no milk, there will be no sugar, like that. No fruits. If you get fruits, there will be no pulp, it is simply seeds. These things are there. You get a mango, but a mango means simply the big seed, that's all. So how can you check it? If nature's way, things are going to happen like that, what the scientists will do? If there is no rice, no wheat, will the scientists...? They can say replace with a pill, but they cannot produce wheat or rice or dahl or milk, sugar. That is not possible.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? They have fashioned a way for the spacemen that they can drink their own urine and eat their own stool.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the most scientific improvement. (laughter) Yes. That they can do. (laughter) By scientific improvement, they can drink their own urine, very tasty. That is possible.

Devotee (1): With all these disqualifications, how can the general mass of people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only remedy. That is stated here.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Purification of one's existence."

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process. Go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Those who are situated in the transcendental nature make progress on the path of liberation. For those who are acting in the modes of passion and ignorance, on the other hand, there is no possibility of liberation. Either they will have to remain in this material..."

Prabhupāda: They say "What we care for liberation? It is troublesome. You have to sacrifice so many things. We don't want liberation. That is nonsensical. You keep your liberation. We don't want." This is the problem. As you said, liberation means "Whatever I like I will do." But that is, actually, he cannot do that. But he's thinking that he's liberated. Can he do that, whatever he likes? But still he's... Therefore rascal. Dog's life. The dog is jumping, barking, that "I'm free now." But he forgets that as soon as the master will call and chain him, he'll do it. But he's thinking that "I'm liberated." This is the problem. What is his liberation? He does not know what is liberation.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real understanding. And without Kṛṣṇa, if you understand brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, then you fall down.

Kulādri: But it seems then you have to come to the full understanding before it does any good.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means those who are simply trying to understand Brahman, they are not understanding.

Kulādri: Then what does it mean gradual process, gradual advancement in transcendental realization?

Prabhupāda: Gradual process, just like you are here in the sunshine. So if you are intelligent, you'll understand that the temperature in the sunshine and the temperature in the sun globe is different. So Brahman understanding is the lowest stage. Paramātmā understanding little higher. And Bhagavān understanding is complete. That is gradual. And these Māyāvādīs, they do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa. They are satisfied only with understanding Brahman. Therefore they fall down. Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta (SB 10.2.32). Because there is no standing. The impersonal feature, that the sky... Go very high in the sky, you do not see anymore this planet earth, neither you see anything, you'll be mad. Then you will find out how to go back again. You cannot stay there in that condition. Although they say "so'ham," no, you cannot stay there. Just imagine, if you go very high and you do not see any other thing, only sky. Will you be able to stay in that condition? You go in the sea. When you do not find anything, all water, you become very much anxious, "Where is land? Where is land?" And as soon as you have a glimpse of land, island, you become very, "Oh, there is land." So this is impersonal understanding. It is simply imagination, that simply by Brahman understanding he'll be happy. No, that is not possible.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's advising that, "My dear friends, pleasure, material pleasure, on account of this material body, particular type of body...": A dog, it has got a body, and I have got a body. So my sex pleasure and dog's sex pleasure, there is no difference. the pleasure derived out of sex pleasure is the same. But a dog is not afraid of having sex pleasure on the street before everyone. We hide it. That's all. In a nice apartment. But the business is the same. There is no difference. But they are taking this sex pleasure in a nice apartment and very decorated, man and woman, and electric light and so on, so on. This pleasure is advanced. But that is not advanced. And they are making dog's race for this advancement. Superficial. The Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this is a question of different types of pleasure on account of different types of body, but the pleasure is the same. But according to the different types of body the pleasure is already fixed up. That is called destiny. A pig has got a certain type of body and his eatable is the stool. It is already fixed up. You cannot change it, that "Let the pig eat halavā." It is not possible. Because he has got a particular type of body, he must eat that. Can anyone, any scientist can improve the standard of living of a pig? Is it possible?

Devotees: (laughing) No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand. In a high-court a judge is sitting soberly, doing nothing, and he is getting the highest salary. And another man in the same court, he's working day and hard rubber-stamping and he is getting not even one tenth of the salary.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then, is it true then that people who have this conception, they would not try for progress?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Progress... The thing is that if you try progress vainly, what is the use of trying? If it is a fact you cannot change your destiny, so why should you try for that? Better... That is the... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Therefore whatever energy you have got, you utilize it for understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Make it clear. Just like our society. We are, our main business is how to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not very enthusiastic to open big, big factories and big, big money-earning machine. No. We are not interested. We'll be satisfied with the amount of happiness or distress, whatever we are destined. Let us utilize our energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the point. So the Vedic civilization is meant for realization of God. Viṣṇur aradhyate. So they try for that. And now, at the present moment.... Actually, the varṇāśrama-dharmi, they never tried for economic development. You'll find in India still, thousands of men taking bath in the Ganges. In the Kumbhamela... You have been in Kumbhamela?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: At the Kumbhamela millions of people are coming to take bathing in the Ganges because they are interested how to become liberated. They're not lazy. They're going thousands miles, two thousand miles away, to take bathing in the Prayāgaa. So they are not lazy. But they are not busy in the dog's race. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. Saṁyamī. He keeps night, he does not sleep. Others are sleeping. So similarly, the dogs and asses, they think that "They are not working." And they are working. The different platforms. So the Vedic civilization which is practiced in India... Now it is distorted, but actually, they are not lazy. They are very, very busy. Not only very, very busy, but from, they are trying to become self-realized from the very beginning of life. Kaumāraṁ...

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Here it is same thing explained, that don't be entrapped with these temporary bodily necessities of life, sense gratification. You must inquire about the Absolute Truth. In the next verse it is explained, vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam (SB 1.2.11). Tattva. Tattva means truth. The truth is explained by the tattva-vit, one who knows the truth. How? Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. He is explained as Brahman, as Paramātmā, or as Bhagavān. This is Vedānta-sūtra. Now one should learn what is Bhagavān, what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā. In this way one should make advancement of his spiritual consciousness. That is the purpose of Vedānta-sūtra.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. The Vedantists they have come from the impersonal explanation of Śaṅkarācārya. Śārīraka-bhāṣya. But they simply give stress on the Śārīraka-bhāṣya, but there are other bhāṣyas. Bhāṣyas means commentary. And the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary by the author himself. Besides that, there are Vedānta-bhāṣyas written by the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and all the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas. Unfortunately, they do not care to read all these Vedānta-bhāṣyas. They simply take Śārīraka-bhāṣya and become impersonalist and call themselves as Vedantist.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the reason for that?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even if people would do this, it would be such an advancement.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because a class of men will demand to eat the flesh. You cannot stop it. So we are giving free: you eat. And from economic point of view, we require the skin for our mṛdaṅga making. So give us the skin. That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says the butcher, even, he can sell the meat cheaply, make profit. He's getting it free of charge.

Hari-śauri: Maybe some time in the future this could happen when Kṛṣṇa consciousness becomes very powerful influence in the country, but unless we could actually close the slaughterhouse...

Prabhupāda: No, but now by imploring, we are requesting him that "You can take this cow and sell in your shop, butcher shop, you give us the skin. And you can tell the customer that it is as good, it is cheaper. So whatever money you get, that is your profit. You haven't got to invest anything."

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Do you propose that we should do this now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is... Think over.

Hari-śauri: Yes, the proposition is very good, that's a fact.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: May be Śukrācārya's place. What benefit they will have? Nothing. This is science. Without any aim, without any objective.

Hari-śauri: What they're doing is entirely pointless. There's no proper reason for any of it. Because they aren't improving their actual living standards by it. They are... It's just like a jñāni, he thinks advancement of knowledge, just to simply acquire any amount of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. They are described: Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply works hard simply to know things. No benefit. These rascals are like that. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.

Hari-śauri: That's the futility of the university system now. They are going and they're accumulating knowledge which is worthless for living. It has no practical value, so all the youth are becoming very frustrated.

Prabhupāda: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, kliśyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Kleśala eva śiṣyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?

Pradyumna: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8)?

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in fact, one of the remarks of a scientist, Nobel laureate actually, in Harvard, Mādhava told me he was in American Association for the Advancement of Science. This professor is a professor in biology in Harvard, Boston. His answer was that, "In order to have man in this planet, the stars have to die." That means we come from the stars. The particles, from the stars, then the main involved from those molecules, that star, that come from the stars.

Prabhupāda: You do something. I can give you the idea. But it is fact. What ideas I am giving, that's a fact. Now it is up to you to put it (into) so-called scientifics. He'll... In future millions of years after it will create one living entity in the laboratory, so he's taking all the credit, and God is creating millions and millions already, He has no credit. You'll see their intelligence. What the people will gain even if you manufacture one life in the laboratory? So what is the gain? Why you are spending so much money?

Yadubara: They want to become God.

Prabhupāda: God becoming is far away. First of all, make some living entity. But even if you do it, then what is your credit? Why you want to take so much great credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called false prestige.

Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding. Because, after all, you are an instrument in the hands of material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

You are falsely thinking "I am everything. I can, by technological understanding, improve the condition." But the real problem is, as it is put forward by Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are put under the laws of material nature, by which we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. This is our real problem. So unless you make a solution of these problems, there is actually no advancement of education. But the problems remains the same.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone but the wife.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why one should not call a wife a mother? Is that very great advancement? But this rascal was impotent, he had no other alternative, so he manufactured some idea and people thought, "Oh, he's so devotee of goddess of Kālī that he sees even his wife as mother." This story he told me by Guru Mahārāja personally. He was talking with me privately somewhere, although I was a bad householder. (laughs) He was very kind upon me. And whatever is being done by his blessing, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what time do you take your bath? Because I can get hot..., you know we have a big heater in this building. So for hot water...

Hari-śauri: Sometimes between quarter to one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I make sure there's hot water at that time?

Hari-śauri: You can put it through the pipe system? Anytime from twelve-thirty on. (in car)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the devotees heard about your idea for a neon sign on the top of the building, they all went "Jaya!" They like that idea.

Prabhupāda: What is this street?

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...it is constructed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Metropolitan Museum of Art extension.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can return back now. This one is older, this is new. There are twice as many floors in the same amount of space. It's actually double. (break) ...think there's an advancement in living conditions. Seems to be worsening, but they're taking it as advancement. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About the same as Mercedes. Ten thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nandaki, is it as good mechanically as a Mercedes?

Devotee: No, I don't think so.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mercedes is very sturdy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The comfort's better.

Devotee: But after two years this all becomes finished, all this. Starts falling apart.

Prabhupāda: But Mercedes is strong. (indistinct)

Devotee: No, Mercedes is strong.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very long lasting. (pause) But Mercedes they say it's supposed to last about two hundred thousand kilometers.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is happiness. Bhagavad-gītā points out what is your distress. Can anyone say what is the actual distress? They do not know it. Distress they are taking as usual part of life. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is philosophy, to find out what is distress. This is directly said by Kṛṣṇa, that these are distresses, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, to become old and to become diseased. But they do not know it. Not only they, everyone, all over the world, they take it as part of life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. When a man becomes diseased, when a man becomes old, or when a man dies, they take it it is usual. They have been accustomed to these distresses so much that they do not take it as distress. So this is their ignorance. This is their ignorance. They do not know what is distress and they are struggling for moving the distress. Just like this independence. They do not know what is meaning of independence. Real independence is when you are free from these four kinds of distress. Does it mean that observing this kind of independence is real independence? It is simply fictitious. If you are not free from the laws of nature, nature will enforce you to die. Then where is your independence? Nobody wants to die, so why he's enforced to die? Nobody wants to become old man. Why he's enforced to become old man? But they have no brain to understand what is independence, what is happiness. They have taken distress as happiness. So that is due to lack of knowledge. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to elevate a person to the real standard of knowledge. Without knowledge a madman can say anything. A child can speak all nonsense. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside. The problem that "I do not want to die, but I'll be enforced to die," so what is the advancement in this connection? They might have, so big, big scientists, they have discovered many, many things, but where is that thing that "Take a pill and you'll never die. Take a pill, you'll never become diseased"? They can offer me... I had some abdominal pain, so they have given me dozens of medicine. But still they are not sure whether the pain will be cured. This is their science. So in this way things are going on, in ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But what is that discovery?

Rādhāvallabha: Scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: You simply go and see? That's all?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no really purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no valid purpose.

Rādhāvallabha: They consider it advancement of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is not advancement of...

Gurudāsa: They want to colonize because there is overpopulation on this planet.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Another rascal. (laughter)

Gurudāsa: They want to put the American flag on the moon and say, "It is ours."

Prabhupāda: And then lick up. "Here is American flag." (laughter) And then doglike urine(?) (within?) (laughter) So lick up, then doglike urine(?) (women?). It is useless. (laughter) Dog's business. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they feel they should explore the unknown.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They have done?

Bhagavān: In France there was a big drought, terrible drought. Many animals died. So the president of the country made a speech, and all he could say in his speech was that people should try to use less water. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Oh. There was another caricature, India. So there was some drought, the same. So there was some, what is called, representation: "And there is no water. We are suffering. This is the difficulty." "Yes, we are taking step, but next week you'll have television." Advancement, television. Because there was no television, so this is the advancement. Next week they have television. As if television will solve the problem. All mūḍhas, rascals, are very horrible condition. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no other.

Jayatīrtha: Tāmala Kṛṣṇa once published an article in the Back to Godhead. The title was "You Cannot Eat Nuts and Bolts."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: It was very nice.

Prabhupāda: That is my word. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: We always take everything from you, and then we take the credit.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Harikeśa: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's big competition now between our French and Spanish and English, between our publishing, French, Spanish and English. They are always competing. And the Germans also.

Harikeśa: I think the French are on top though.

Hari-śauri: Their French Bhagavad-gītā, the French one, when it came out, it's so much better than any other version we've had. Every time they bring a new book out, it seems to be an advancement on everything else.

Harikeśa: Yogeśvara is very...

Prabhupāda: Oh, he is very expert, very enthusiastic. His wife is...

Harikeśa: Very nice.

Hari-śauri: They included a number of photos also. In the picture sections they've headed each section with a photo. There's one of Vṛndāvana temple. They have a photo of your room in Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: Oh! Where it is?

Hari-śauri: In one of the sections here.

Harikeśa: I have to go in and do some more.... (break)

Prabhupāda: Right in here.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: The whole country could be like this if everybody was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Very peacefully you can live. In the city you go, thousands of cars are running-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror. What is called? Flyway, expressway, downway, every ten yards stop for the light. (laughter) How artificial life. And with all these things, if people would have been happy, all right. But they're not happy, in spite of all this advancement.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Simply increasing their miseries.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Problems.

Hari-śauri: The bigger the buildings, the more anxiety they're in.

Prabhupāda: Not only many cars, they construct new roads, new... Increasing business, in the hope of happiness. But there is no happiness.

Hari-śauri: Happiness is the last consideration.

Prabhupāda: They are thinking that "In this way we shall be happy."

Hari-śauri: Get more money.

Prabhupāda: First of all, paved way, then flyway, then another flyway, then another flyway, in this way. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ.

Hari-śauri: They're always striving for happiness, that's all. They never achieve it, they never get there.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: I remember.

Prabhupāda: You were there, yes. Is that life? How they can be happy if this is the condition? So what further advancement?

Harikeśa: In reference?

Hari-śauri: Tehran.

Harikeśa: Oh, your tickets are definitely booked on the nonstop flight. I finally managed to...

Prabhupāda: Take the ticket. Oh, we have got ticket.

Harikeśa: The reservation, I mean... And if for some reason we can't get on that flight, we have reservations on another flight that arrives four hours later.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.

Harikeśa: It changes, it leaves earlier and gets there four hours later. Was lunch all right today? Lunch? Your lunch was all right?

Hari-śauri: Was lunch all right? Prasādam?

Prabhupāda: The potatoes and karelā should be fried.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That is another artificial agitation of the mind. It has, there is no practical benefit. Just see how many varieties of flowers, colorful. Can they make such colorful? "Yes, we're trying to overcome nature. Wait millions of years." And what about not? "Now you sleep." (laughter) These rascals are misleading other rascals. And they are, "Oh, a scientist!" Very misleading civilization. We shall appreciate in every flower the craftsmanship of Kṛṣṇa, how He has done nicely. Unnecessarily puffed up by so-called advancement of knowledge, misleading themselves and misleading others. Who is that old man comes? Some old man?

Bhagavān: He's a life member from Belgium.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has come from Belgium? In the last German war, the first attempt of attack was on Belgium. And within few hours, Belgium finished, conquered.

Bhagavān: It's a very nice part of the day. It's warm, nice part of the day.

Prabhupāda: I think this part is better situated than New Vrindaban, eh? What do you think?

Hari-śauri: This is a lot nicer.

Prabhupāda: New Vrindaban is on the rocks and hills, and this is plain. Therefore situation is better. That New Orleans is also plain land. You have been there? And Pennsylvania is also.

Hari-śauri: Pennsylvania is very good.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You should know everyone is confused. If you have got capacity, then you make him peaceful. Otherwise, you expect everyone is confused. It is a different life. Unless one is very, very fortunate, he cannot understand it. So confusion is natural. There is not the question of some people or other, everyone is confused. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is spirit. Everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So how he'll not be confused? The very beginning is confusion. So long one is confused with this bodily conception of life, he's called in the śāstra animal. The animal is always confused. He does not know what is life, what is aim.

yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijyadhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he's confused like the animals, cows and asses. That is the general condition. So you should not be surprised to see somebody confused. Because he's in bodily concept of life. Unless he overcomes the bodily concept of life, he'll remain confused. Because he's accepting something which is not. He's practically seeing that he's not body, still he's thinking "I am this body." This is confusion. Practically he's seeing daily that body is there and the spirit soul left the body, now the body has no value, everyone knows it. Still, he's thinking, "I am this body." How much foolish he is. That is confusion. He knows that. He practically sees every day, "My father is gone." "Why your father is gone? He's lying there." "No, no, my father is gone." He's experienced. His father is gone, his brother is gone, his relatives gone, and still he thinks, "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." This is confusion. So it requires little advancement of knowledge to get out of this confusion. But he is practically keeping himself in this confusion. So not somebody, but everybody.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That also I have already explained, you depend on another chicken's egg. You cannot manufacture the egg. That is my challenge, that you manufacture the egg by chemical combination and put into the machine. That you cannot do. Another living chicken must lay down the egg, then you can reclaim. You're dependent. Where is your independence? Everywhere you are dependent. How you declare independence? Where is your independence?

Dayānanda: They think that the countries that have the materialistic advancement or scientific advancements, that they are very well situated.

Prabhupāda: Well, scientific advancement, all this nonsense you can say. Just like Iran. God has given the oil underneath the ground, you are so proud. But if God would not give you the oil, then you starve in the desert. Then talk of improvement, nonsense. You're dependent on the oil. That is given by God. By God's grace, you have got some stock of oil, and there is good demand of oil. Then you are proud of making advancement. You are depending on the oil. The oil is supplied by God. You're dependent. Where is your independence? When the oil is finished, then your all pride is finished. Where is your independence?

Dayānanda: But we do not believe in God and still...

Prabhupāda: Do or do not believe in God, but you are not independent, that's a fact. You don't believe or do believe, it doesn't matter. But you are dependent. You are not independent.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, we are dependent on nature.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: But I am not independent, I am more dependent on my intelligence.

Prabhupāda: What intelligence? If dependent, what is the meaning of intelligence?

Dayānanda: Yes, I'm depending on my own intelligence to utilize everything for advancement, for my comfort and my strength and food.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything, if there is no everything, then what is the meaning of intelligence?

Dayānanda: But I may develop more intelligence to create what I lack.

Prabhupāda: That is theory. That is not fact. (break) That is given by nature or God, whatever you say. That is not in your intelligence.

Hari-śauri: God may have given us all the basic things, but it's taken man's intelligence to make the...

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but if God has given you so many basic things, then you can use your intelligence. Otherwise, your intelligence... There is a story that one man was asked by his friend, "Have you got intelligence?" He began to search out here. So, "What is this?" He said, "Intelligence means when there is money here. Otherwise, I am even though I have got intelligence, useless." You can utilize your intelligence provided you have got the means. Intelligence also you cannot utilize properly if there is no supply.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if I understand that he is rich, I may consider, "Well, I have got one thousand dollars, so he may have one hundred thousand dollars," that's all. But if you understand that he has got millions and millions of dollars, then you'll appreciate, "Oh, so rich!" Then your regard for him will increase. That is not being done. Stereotyped, "God is great." How He is great, to what extent He is great, what is His greatness activities, if you know more and more, then your regard for God will increase. But that they are not doing. Simply officially, "God is great, God is great," finished. No jijñāsā, no inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should be inquisitive. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One who has become inquisitive of the uttamam, the most exalted subject matter, he requires a guru. Otherwise, who will answer his inquiries? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. If he's not jijñāsuḥ, what is the need of guru? And where is the question of advancement? He must be jijñāsuḥ. That is, people are not interested. Officially, go to church, go to mosque, go to temple and do something. Then drop it and go to your own business and do whatever you like. No discrimination. They're not serious. Not very serious. One who is serious, he'll inquire. Otherwise, the formula is all right, "God is great, there is no more greater than Him." But inquire, "How He is great?" (guests enter) Thank you. Jaya. Therefore society is required, association is required, to inquire. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). There is need of association for discussing how God is great. That is needed-jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Unless one is inquisitive... Sharmaji, you can come here. So, that is the... Simply we should not remain satisfied to understand... That is not proper understanding, officially, "God is great." No. Try to inquire how great He is, why He is great. Then your regard for God, your devotion for God will increase. And because we do not inquire how God is great, therefore cheap gods are coming. Any rascal, he is repre... "I am God." Because we do not know actually what is God. But if you inquire about God, if you go through the śāstra, as it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. Their advancement of knowledge is so poor, that if the chemicals of the semina and ovum, by mixture, life can be generated, so why you wait for such accident? You can combine such chemicals. Why you are waiting for the accident or chance meeting? You can produce. That they cannot. Then how it is accident? Just like nowadays the ox, bull's semina is injected in the cow, artificial semination?

Jñānagamya: Yes, for cows they do that.

Prabhupāda: But that semina is taken from a bull. Why not chemically prepare and inject?

Jñānagamya: Also for humans sometimes, humans also.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have to take from another living being. Why not prepare the chemicals? Then postdated check: "Yes, we are trying. Wait millions of years." The same rascaldom. And who is preparing that chemical? You have to wait for millions of years, who is preparing that chemical now?

Nava-yauvana: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: What is your answer? Who is preparing now the chemicals? You are, just like you are trying to prepare some chemical, so the chemical is already there. So somebody has prepared, you have to accept, huh? Why not?

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That you see because you are rascal. That is our charges against you. You see because you are rascal. You do not know, you have no sufficient knowledge. But our charge is that the lust is the..., Yes, all right, the lust is the cause and the discharge is there, so why you are waiting the discharge of a human being? Why not prepare that chemical? Where is that advancement? Why you take from a man the discharge and put into the woman, either man or animal? You prepare.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: If you take the scientist's thinking like this one step further, we see that because of this thinking they do not see, they become very confused, and then they say God is..., if there is God, He's unjust. He's not just because...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is God, rascal. First of all, our point is this. Unjust or just, we shall see later on. First of all, you accept there is God.

Jñānagamya: They are analyzing the semina, they find DNA molecules, like this, but they cannot find the essence. They cannot understand the essence of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is my proposition. That is poor fund of knowledge. Still, they are trying to establish "This is the cause."

Harikeśa: No, we can find, the essence is lust, because as soon as there is lust, automatically there's all these other things. So you don't have to make all these other things because automatically lust creates everything. There is no need...

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of decorating the dead body?

Guest: Correct. Yes. We must decorate real...

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest: We are lucky souls that we are surrendered souls.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Whatever is done it is by single man's effort. If all our actual leaders, they take up, then India will be glorified. They'll feel... Yes, they're expecting. Outside India, people, they expect that there is something better knowledge in India. Therefore as soon as some swamis or yogi goes there, they come. But they cheat. These rascals, I shall say that, they do not know anything, and they go there for teaching yoga. Bogus.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then other machines came. I did not know, but I was thinking that if some typist would hear my tapes and type, I was thinking like that. Expert typist. Formerly, it was being done like that. Here, tape recorder. You hear something and then type. Like that. And this machine, you shall, it is, automatically, you hear and type, hear and type.

Jayapatākā: This is made for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the advancement on that idea, dictaphone. Telephone. And the dictation of the author. He's hearing and typing. Nowadays everyone is using. The doctors dictate prescription. The doctor, instead of sending note, he dictates for such and such patient, "He should receive this, take like that..." That is recorded. Another, another, and immediately taken and the compounder hears and... No writing.

Jayapatākā: Actually you are dictating the prescription for the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. And prescription is so sweet it pleases the ear and the heart. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. It is medicine for this material disease. At the same time it is so pleasing to the ear and the heart. This is the very word. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra. Śrotra means aural. Śrotra-manaḥ, and mind. Mano 'bhirāmāt. Abhirāma, pleasing.

Jayapatākā: After rainy season you'll be coming to Māyāpura then?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: We'll write when the weather improves. We'll write when the rains cease.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Like that. In the beginning there was water, so the living entities were aquatics. Then, as the land came out, sthāvara, then plants, creepers, trees. So we have to pass through nine lakhs species of life in the water. Then trees, plants, two millions, twenty lakhs. In this way there are 8,400,000 species of life, and when you come to the human form of life, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), we get this form of life. Now we have to select parāṁ gatim or adho gatim. We are given the chance of human form of life for further advancement. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

So if you worship the demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa-yānti deva-vratā devān—then you can go to the higher planetary system. They are trying to go to the moon planet. In that way it is not possible. You have to be qualified to go there. Not by machine, by force you can go there. That is not possible. Yānti deva-vratā devān. So... And also you can go, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. You can go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to make choice in this human form of life. Actually, the aim should be to go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Otherwise, within this material world, even if you go to the higher planetary system, then punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back again. Now the human form of life should be properly utilized. If we think that this life is everything, that is wrong conception of life. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Mahāṁsa: Shall I go and bring the agreement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Western world is very busy manufacturing this machine. And they are thinking this is advancement of civilization.

Hari-śauri: Technology.

Prabhupāda: That is not advancement.

Hari-śauri: They can't see any use for philosophy and fine arts any more.

Prabhupāda: Because they do not know what is soul. They do not know what is missing. Why the body is useless. They do not cultivate... The most important thing they do not cultivate. This man was so important one second before. Now the whole body is useless. It has to be thrown away. They do not give attention even to this. How he becomes... Second before he was Mr. Churchill or Mr. such and such, very important man. All men showing respect. And now he is useless. If somebody kicks on his face nobody will say. Out of sentiment they protest, but the man will not protest.

Hari-śauri: They stick him in the ground. Put him in a box.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Avyaktā hi gatir duḥkham. (Hindi) Read it.

Pradyumna: "For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) You are expecting happiness by thinking of impersonal form of the Lord. That is not possible. You simply get troubles, that's all. (Hindi) What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord are called jñāna-yogis, and persons who are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service to the Lord are called bhakti-yogis. Now here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa personally says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). (Hindi) If you like to tolerate adi-kleśa, that is your choice. Otherwise, Bhagavān, sac-cid-ānanda...

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it a sign of advancement in devotional service...

Prabhupāda: Branch?

Akṣayānanda: Advancement. If somebody wants to preach. Is that the sign of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Akṣayānanda: That's the first sign.

Prabhupāda: When one is very anxious to preach, that is advancement.

Akṣayānanda: And if one is not very anxious to preach, he is not very advanced.

Prabhupāda: Then he should stick to Deity worship very nicely. Following the rules and regulations, cleansing. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. This nitya, you take very seriously.

Akṣayānanda: And then when he becomes advanced....

Prabhupāda: Automatically he will be anxious to preach. Automatically.

Akṣayānanda: Ultimately.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not ultimately. Automatically. Just like in a small time, our, that Kṛṣṇa dāsa? He knows English, he knows French, he knows... What does it mean? He has heard it. Now he'll want to speak. That is the natural sequence. If anyone has listened from the authority about Kṛṣṇa, he wants to speak again. That is preaching. Not that "I have listened about Kṛṣṇa, that's all right." No. When he wants to speak to others, that is advancement. That is wanted. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. That is the test that he has advanced. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā (indistinct).

Devotee: Does he have to speak immediately, or he can speak after some time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not immediately. Immediately how you can speak. Unless he knows, what he'll speak? It is better not to speak than speaking all nonsense. He must learn first of all what is the philosophy, what is the science. Then he can speak. (break)

Vipramukhya:. These Turks are yavanas? Demons and yavanas?

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan." Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient, special care should be taken for him?" No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Akṣayānanda: If he doesn't have any money he may... (end)

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Okay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "This society was formed strictly for the purpose of spreading God consciousness. We briefly submit below the misleading information as reported by Blitz and humbly inform you of the fact." What I've done is I've shown each point that Blitz has incorrectly said and then responded to it. Should I read? Okay. "Point one. Blitz Ungodly Face of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. ISKCON: The International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is a worldwide community of devotees practicing the Vedic teachings, the eternal science of rendering devotional service to Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Society was founded by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, a pure devotee of God, who is coming down in paramparā started by Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago. In other words, the roots of this movement trace back to at least five thousand years. It is not a modern concoction. In India our Society is registered under the Society Registration Act #21 of 1860. As we are a registered nonprofit organization, we are required to maintain complete account of all donations received, both within India and from abroad. Thus keep a complete account of all our expenses. Our accounts are audited every year and submitted to the income tax authorities and the charity commissioner. Very briefly, the main object of the Society, as registered with the government is..." I've given them the three main points from your memorandum of the association. "To advance, transmit, and spread the ethical and philosophical principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as revealed in the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the doctrines and the observances which serve to promote and manifest the said ethical and philosophical principles in the furtherance of the subject. To build or to assist in building temples, schools, colleges, hospitals, and other buildings in connection with or for the advancement of the objects of the Society and to maintain, alter, and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. To print, publish, sell, or cause to be printed, published or sold, or to distribute books, booklets, leaflets, daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, or yearly newspapers, magazines, or other periodicals for the purpose of giving information for the work of the Society. We refrain from four categories of sinful activities, such as meat-eating, intoxication, gambling, and illicit sex life. Furthermore, our entire life is dedicated to reading, chanting, and preaching about Kṛṣṇa. We rise at 4 a.m. all over the world. So how can Blitz say that we are ungodly when we are following Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's teachings?" This is my reply to point one. It's okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is nice. Very good.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No right direction because he does not know what is the aim.

Doctor: They both want to have peace so they at least try to...

Prabhupāda: Everyone wants that. But if he does not know how to attain peace, then go on discussing forever. That is going on.

Doctor: But it is still a step in the right direction...

Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any advancement.

Doctor: ...otherwise what is the aim?

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is, but you don't take. How it can be done? In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)
This is the process. But if you don't take it...

Doctor: But if that realization does not dawn... Till that realization...

Prabhupāda: Then you go on barking. That is another thing.

Doctor: (laughs) It's better to bark than to bite.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What they'll say? There is nothing to say. They do not go and even they go, they take photograph from millions of miles. What is the value of these things? But people are accepting that "Oh, scientific research." Perhaps I am the only man in the world who is protesting. (laughs) Eh? Everyone is accepting, "Oh, it is scientific."

Hari-Sauri: People are being duped now into believing that advancement means simply to research. Not to actually find out anything valuable, but just to do some research. They think that that's the whole thing, education is just to research.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the European, you don't get the result, go on researching and spoil the money.

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa has manufactured everything in such a complicated way, that their search is never-ending.

Prabhupāda: That article written by Svarūpa Dāmodara in the recent Back to Godhead.

Hari-Sauri: That was not.... Oh, which one?

Prabhupāda: The recent this.

Hari-Sauri: The newest one? That was not by Svarūpa Dāmodara. That was by...

Prabhupāda: You have got?

Hari-Sauri: Dāmodara Dāsa and Jagjīvana.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Svarūpa Dāmodara is different. Oh.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There are two natures. One is material nature; one is spiritual nature. The material nature, earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, ego, and beyond that apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. This is inferior nature. Beyond this, there is a superior nature. And that superior means, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). That is the living entity. This big universe, this is material. But the living entities, because they are using this material for their so-called advancement, comforts... And because they have the power to utilize these material matters for their own purpose, they are superior. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. And because this nature is being utilized, one is being utilized and one is utilizer. The utilizer is the superior, and the things utilized, they are inferior, but both of them are nature, God's nature. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Dr. Kneupper: Is there time in the higher nature?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kneupper: Is there time?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher nature means eternal.

Dr. Kneupper: There are no changes in the higher nature?

Prabhupāda: Changes when he gets into this material, inferior nature. He has to change the body, one circumstance to another, another, another, according to his desire. Just like you get a lump of dirt. You can mold it. You can make a pot. You can make a doll. So we are doing that. Child. The father has given birth to the child and father has given the child a lump of earth and he's playing. That's all. For both of them, the father is the proprietor. If the child wants to play, father says, "All right, play." So he's sometimes breaking, sometimes crying, sometimes laughing. This is going on.

Dr. Kneupper: Then he goes back.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, suppose you are a well known philosopher. If you say, "There is God," so many people will hear: "Oh, here is a big philosopher." Therefore your studies of philosophy will be perfect when you establish, "Yes, there is God." Otherwise it is useless because you will waste your time and you'll waste... Already they are Godless.

Dr. Kneupper: How does one establish clearly?

Prabhupāda: That requires thinking. That requires knowledge. Therefore we are giving so many books. You can study. You can present the case nicely with argument, philosophy. That is your duty. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānu... When you are able to describe God very philosophically, scientifically, mathematically, then your education is perfect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.

Devotee: "(indistinct) which developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Kṛṣṇa. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in should aspire to the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately, persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that the culmination of perfection or self realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are attracted by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation of the Lord or His different energies because the Lord has set in motion by His inconceivable energy, actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is therefore different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always is different from them. When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead, His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, and all the branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The (indistinct), writers, poets, and celebrated literature are generally engaged in writing sensuous subjects, but if they turn (indistinct) the service of the Lord, they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so they become immortal. Similarly science and philosophy also should be applied to the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: To attract them to really nice prasādam, palatable food, we shall spend. And we shall argue (?) also by literature produced, and they're learning. Where is the difficulty? We shall take contribution from rich persons. We shall earn ourself, and spend it, to give them very nice prasādam. Gradually when they come, when you engage them in producing their own food, own shelter, own cloth... This should be organized. And they'll be glad. As soon as they understand, they will be glad to do. And they will stop all this nonsense: illicit sex, and meat eating. Then their life will be purified. And they'll make more and more advancement in this path. That is perfection. That you want. Is it clear or not?

Jagadīśa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes? This is our mission. If you give them very nice palatable prasādam... They go to hotel from miles together to take some palatable foodstuff, restaurant, hotel. And we cannot give nice Kṛṣṇa prasādam? Why? Why you cannot give? Arrange like that, first class. Simply for eating they will come. Immediately do it.

Jagadīśa: I have a question, whether we should always give them khicuṛi or whether we should...

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The home attachment is so great. These Delhi passengers, they are coming, hanging, and there are so many accidents daily. And few hours he will live with wife. That is his home. And whole other, out of twenty-four hours, seventeen hours are outside, and maybe seven hours at home. But still, he'll come home. The home attachment is very big. Therefore we have to create attachment for this hari-saṅkīrtana. If you create that attachment, then they will give up home attachment, try life, to live here. Athāsaktiḥ. You have to train them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in such a way. Then

ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-
saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt
tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ
(Cc. Madhya 23.14-15)

Āsakti. Then they will be attached here. Spiritually if you enlighten them, then they'll be attached. They'll voluntarily say they are accepting here. The chanting, chanting, then... This is the beginning, that "You chant and take prasādam." Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Gradually the heart will be cleansed, and gradually they will be elevated to the platform of āsakti. Then they will not want money, they will not want... Then they will live here, work, just you are doing. That stage, that requires little advancement. Therefore I say this kīrtana program must be continued. Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. As you make the heart cleansed, they become more and more advanced. And then this stage of āsakti, that "This is... We shall live here." Just like we have given up our hearth and home and wife and children. We have given up that attachment. This attachment, practical... That is... You cannot expect immediately. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). When one gets better attachment, then they can give up this nasty attachment. Therefore we have to continue this saṅkīrtana. This is the psychology. But there is very great prospect to develop this place, and you have got experience. If you can develop, it will be very nice example. Once successful here, we can introduce this program. And India will be easier because they are by nature inclined to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be easier. The kīrtana must be there. Otherwise why we have to take so much responsibility?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's fine. That's your process. You are trying to do something for the disease.

Dr. Patel: You see we must know exactly what is happening. After all, science is the same with the āyurvedic or allopathic or any. Science is... I mean, advancement of man's evolution of the man's understanding about things.

Prabhupāda: I say but somebody says that... What is the medicine? I take some āyurvedic medicine.

Dr. Patel: No, you do take. We don't say no. You don't take any medicine, we know exactly where you stand, as the modern science explains us. (break) Well, he may not (indistinct) truth immediately, but that is his aim.

Prabhupāda: Now I am feeling some dizziness.

Dr. Patel: Sit down, you sit down.

Prabhupāda: Where is that sitting place?

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Go down. (break)

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...is a big tank of Calcutta Gas Company. That looks like this.

Dr. Patel: We have got also tank like this in Bombay. We have also gas company tanks. It's in (indistinct). We have bigger tanks here of the petroleum companies. Huge tanks, petroleum tanks.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Jagadīśa: "Dear Dr. Lubin: In our recent telephone conversation you asked me to articulate in a letter those questions concerning the current brainwashing, deprogramming controversy which I feel may be pertinent to psychiatrists interested in religious issues and therefore a potential topic for discussion and or research within the Committee on Psychiatry and Religion of the Group for Advancement of Psychiatry. Speaking on my own behalf and informally on behalf of the Hare Kṛṣṇa religious society, I might suggest that this issue raises some very serious questions concerning possible abuses of diagnostic power in psychiatry against religious practitioners and movements for what may be social, political, and legal ends. Within the last ten years a large number of new religious groups, sects, communities and organizations have appeared on the American scene. Some are totally new organizationally as well as theologically. And others are, or allege to be, based upon some already existing spiritual tradition. I myself am a member for six years of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. The term Kṛṣṇa consciousness is synonymous with the term bhakti-yoga, a theistic form of yoga which finds its scriptural authority in the Bhagavad-gītā and other major Indian devotional texts. The religious tradition represented in the West of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, Vaiṣṇavism, has centered the lives of hundreds of millions of Hindus for many centuries in India. This particular tradition has produced one of the world's largest and richest bodies of religious, philosophical, and mystical literature. The founder and spiritual leader of the movement, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, has within the last ten years, offered more than fifty volumes of translation and commentary on major texts of the tradition: Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, etc. These works are considered significant contributions to scholarship by specialists in the field and are studied in the universities throughout the world. See book reviews in the pamphlet, 'The Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement is Authorized.' The members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, both men and women, single and married, live in strict adherence to Vedic and Vaiṣṇava principles in regards to religious practice, chastity vows, diet, etc.

Page Title:Advancement (Conversations 1976)
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas, RupaManjari
Created:16 of Apr, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=81, Let=0
No. of Quotes:81