Advancement (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"advancement" |"advancements"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: advancements or advancement not "advance* civilization*"@5 not "spiritual advancement"@3 not "material advancement"@3

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: No, I said old tradition in India has been going on into argument itself.

Prabhupāda: No, argument you can go on, but if you want to know the truth it will not be attained by argument because argument is also within your thinking power: thinking, feeling, willing. So if your thinking, feeling, willing is imperfect, what is the use of your argument? What is the use of your so-called advancement of knowledge? Basically, if the senses, knowledge acquiring senses, are imperfect, then how you can get perfect knowledge?

Professor: Well, then what do we with all techniques, all systems, that have been developed? I am thinking only India, I am not thinking other places, and all the old tradition, since Śaṅkara onwards, of different ways to think, to study, to go deeply to all these relations between...

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkara has interpreted. Śaṅkara has interpreted by his limited knowledge. So that is not perfect knowledge. Therefore we don't accept Śaṅkara's philosophy.

Professor: But I said if he belongs to the same tradition, and you belong to the other...

Prabhupāda: That tradition is nothing. Tradition is just temporary. You make your tradition; he makes your tradition. That is another thing. But the, fact is fact. That is not dependent on tradition. Tradition we can make, tradition. "We believe." Just like somebody says, "We believe." What is the use of such saying, "We believe"? You may believe something which is not fact.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidyā, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature's way—the sun is rising from the eastern side—that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern, Western?" Eastern sun, Western sun." Sun is always Eastern, never Western. How one can say, "Western sun?" (break) Just see. It is in the water, but the water is not over it. If the water increases, it also increases. See? There is no water on the leaf. Here you see. The water must be always down. (break) ...falling from the top of the Sumeru Hill, a big tree, and the juice, after falling down, turns into a river of mango juice. And the blackberries, they are just like the body of elephant and small seed. They also turn into river, Jambu-nada. And the both sides of the river, being moistened by the juice and dried by air and interacted by the sunshine, it becomes gold. And that gold is used for the denizens of heaven for their ornaments, helmets, bracelet, belt. Where is gold here? Paper. They cannot make even gold coins. They are reducing into poverty. In our childhood we have seen gold coin currency, silver coin. And now there is no such thing. Plastic. Paper and plastic. This is their advancement. Yes, it is a nice garden.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not I am talking of God. I am talking of the constitutional position of the living being. That is science. So just like the same example: the driver is different from the car, but when there is some defect in the car, we are not advising that don't take care of the car. But if you simply take care of the car and don't take care of the driver, that is the basic mistake of the civilization.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying because this body can be used for intellectual advancement, therefore he's saying that sometimes people become so much concerned with intellectual things that they neglect their body.

Prabhupāda: It is not... It is beyond intellectual. The intellect also belong to the body. But understanding of the soul is beyond intellectual.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he has come with the idea that in order to pursue the philosophy, whatever philosophy we have, that the body must be in the best possible condition.

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that the driver is different from the car. But if you simply take care of the car, not of the driver, is that very good intelligence?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He agrees with that, that one should keep the body in the best condition in order to try to advance in life as far as possible.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: They say, "Rome wasn't built in a day."

Prabhupāda: No, no. It was not known to you, but what was the harm? And what is the benefit when you have known it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because, they say, without knowing, it's not advancement of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: But you have not known it. You have not known it. You cannot claim that you are advanced. You are still foolish. Why you are claiming advancement? You have not known it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, but they are saying that "In due course of time we are going to know it."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is another foolishness. That we do not accept. You have not known it till now. You are foolish still. That you have to admit. "In future you will be a rich man, and therefore you give me a post-dated check"—who will accept it? The foolish person will accept it, (laughter) that "I am giving you the check, ten million dollars. You can take it after three million years (laughter) when I shall become rich." It is a proposal like that. No intelligent person will accept that check.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they say that "About two hundred years ago, yes, we were foolish, about two hundred years ago."

Prabhupāda: You are still... Still you are foolish. (laughter) Why are you claiming intelligent? Admit it, that still you are foolish. "We have known the molecules." So what is the benefit of knowing?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Satsvarūpa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

"Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminate in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization..."

Prabhupāda: Nature, viṣṇu-māyā, nature. They are bewildered simply by seeing the nature. Then?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Nature, viṣṇu-māyā, nature. They are bewildered simply by seeing the nature. Then?

Satsvarūpa: Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him."

Prabhupāda: Absolute, that is absolute.

Satsvarūpa: "Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by so doing have become immortal. Similarly, science and philosophy also should be applied in the service of the Lord.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, the university?

Doug: In the university? I haven't been with them in a year and a half, but they recently bought a college, and they have part of a college in Santa Barbara, the University of California there. So they're pretty well established educationally. But it's losing its potency actually. I think it's actually reached its peak and left, because when I was with Maharishi also I noticed that it seemed that a lot of his potency seemed to diminish, his charisma, over the years. Seemed to me he'd get more and more depressed if people weren't actually reaching the states that he was talking of. It didn't seem like he was satisfied with the advancement people were making. And certainly he wasn't answering the questions, because all that time I was asking him "What is the highest truth." And when he talked to God I would say, "Who is God?" And we'd ask him, "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" and "What about this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement?" And it was word jugglery. He'd kind of evade our questions and satisfy our elan, but... those questions kept coming up. Somehow he kept us from going into too much detail about it. But eventually... I didn't see him for a few days. This was when I was in the mountains with him, some other people. And we were making up these curriculums for this college program. And he was doing some transcriptions on the Brahma-sūtras, and he came out, and he was in a very solemn mood, and he said... We asked him what he had realized, what truths he had realized from the Brahma-sutras. And he said, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of consciousness." So I left shortly after that. I feel that I could have been chanting all those years, making some progress.

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Doug: What is my age?

Prabhupāda: No, his age.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea-pearls, valuable stones from the hills.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic, no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.

Brahmānanda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?

Prabhupāda: No, pure.

Brahmānanda: It is pure.

Prabhupāda: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati lakṣa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Kṛṣṇa's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the richest. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya.

Devotee (1): Were all the races originated in India?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No. That, that is also beginning of understanding. But first, preliminary understanding should be that God is one. There cannot be Christian God. There cannot be Hindu God. There cannot be Muslim God. That is not complete idea of God. That is imperfect. Just like in Vedic literature, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti: (SB 1.2.11) three phases of understanding of the Absolute. First, beginning, is Brahman, then, further advanced, Paramātmā, then, final advancement, Bhagavān. Similarly, the final realization of God is the Supreme Person. And then we should seek (see?) who is that person. That is real theology.

Pañcadraviḍa: What if they say, "We agree there's one God, but we do not agree that His name is Kṛṣṇa" or "We do not agree..."

Prabhupāda: Then you suggest what is His name. My next challenge will be... You suggest.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: In the Bible they give twelve names for God.

Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Uncivilized. And they are..., he was producing the soul, man? They're uncivilized? This, such nice... That is another exposal of their rascaldom.

Madhudviṣa: They say modern man is living much more comfortably than he did two hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

madhu: This is our advancement.

Prabhupāda: What is that comfortable? What is the comfort? Give me the example of comfort?

Trivikrama: Air conditioning.

Brahmānanda: Music

Madhudviṣa: Cameras.

Pañcadraviḍa: Tape recorders.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) These are comfortable?

Madhudviṣa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.

Prabhupāda: But what about his death, how he uncomfortably dying?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing. But then how that is moving, we have to settle. But matter, as itself, does not move.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause they say that within the, within the earth...

Prabhupāda: That is within. You have got very good sight within. But I am a layman. I want to see that it is moving. (laughter) You have got some imaginary eyes. You can see.

Madhudviṣa: They say that's advancement.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Advancement of science.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to become blind is advancement, certainly. When this is... Who will say it is moving unless he's a fool? Nonsense. (laughter) Moving, that's all right. Everyone... The whole world is moving. That is another thing. But as it is, why, where it is moving?

Rāmeśvara: They're talking about the atomic structure, that the atoms are moving.

Prabhupāda: And therefore it is moving.

Rāmeśvara: Within, the atoms, there is movement.

Prabhupāda: Then here, today, this morning, you'll see it is lying there. Tomorrow you'll come. You'll see it is lying there. Where it is moving? What does it mean by moving?

Rāmeśvara: Well, they say that when atoms...

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā, that aviruddho-kāmo 'smi. "Sense gratification which is not against religious principles, that sense gratification I am," Kṛṣṇa says. We do not stop sense gratification, but we want to regulate sense gratification like a gentleman, not like hogs and dogs. That is human civilization. Sense gratification like hogs and dogs, not required. Sense gratification... People are following that. Although they are so degraded, still, they have not sanctioned as yet to have openly sense gratification on the street like hogs and dogs. That is regulated. That's still going on. But because the civilization is gliding down to animalism, they don't want this restriction. That is the hippies' protest, that, "Why this convention required? Let us enjoy like hogs and dogs." That is advancement.

Viṣṇujana: The scientists are helping them do that also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Viṣṇujana: The scientists are helping them to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: What shall we... Why should we enjoy sense gratification like gentlemen?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: Why should a person...

Prabhupāda: Why do you do it? That is the, already there. Why don't you have sense gratification on the street?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they're already having. People are already having.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is real science. Science we admit, but your science is not. You are trying to go against the laws of nature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about our art and literature which just shows that...

Prabhupāda: No. That is different department so far science is concerned. But pure science is useless, simply useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we acknowledge that, suppose we acknowledge that, but we say that still our cultural advancements are very great. The students say that...

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say "Why...?" Many people I meet in the university they're not involved with science very much. Their main dealings are with culture, literature, arts, philosophy, music. They say... He feels we have very wonderful, beautiful things to study so why should we take up studying what you have to offer. There's so much to study with what we're doing. Why should we join your movement? Why should we give up studying such beautiful music and art and literature?

Prabhupāda: Because you'll like it. And there is beautiful sounds, you'll hear it. Even animals hear it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you sing the same song all the time.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But do you hear it? As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra hundreds of persons, they'll have to hear it. Ask them not to hear it. You go, you scientists, (indistinct) ...don't hear it. They hear it. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But your music is of one chanting is very limited. Chanting...

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: In the beginning don't talk of these details, just try to convince about the philosophy. What is the nature of God? What is your nature? How we are related, like that.

Paramahaṁsa: By details do you mean the rules and regulations?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not in the beginning. In the beginning one must know that he is not this body. He is spirit soul. Don't bring in controversy, but try to convince that you are not this body. Then, gradually. That is the mode of teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Paramahaṁsa: As they become more interested they ask automatically how they can make advancement.

Prabhupāda: If they understand that "I am spirit soul" then he'll advance. Then you can say. The chanting is required.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: And prasādam.

Amogha: Everyone likes prasādam. In these high schools we take maṅgala āratika burfi and they love it. Sometimes the Catholic sisters and nuns come up afterwards and say, "How do you make this? What is the recipe?" (end)

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real enquiry. Wherefrom my life has begun? What is the ultimate goal of my life? Why I am put into these conditions which I do not like? Who is enforcing? These things should be asked. That is the proper enquiry of the human being. And we cannot solve the question of birth, death, old age and disease, and you are theorizing something utopian. What is the use of such advancement of knowledge? I live for fifty years and sixty years, and the Darwin's theory they are calculating gap of millions of years. There is a gap of millions of years, and we will live for fifty years. How we are taking calculation of millions of years? Speculation simply. And misleading people. An honest man should not mislead others. He should understand that his knowledge is limited. How can I say something theorizing? That is not very good business. And misleading people. I have no perfect knowledge. I am theorizing. What is the use? I have no actually accurate knowledge, and I am theorizing. I am misleading people. Big bluff. That is going on. An honest man should not take part in big bluffs. First of all you must have accurate knowledge, and I am theorizing. I am misleading people. Big bluffs. First of all you must have accurate knowledge. Then you bring knowledge to others. That is our proposition. First of all make your life perfect, then you try to give knowledge. If you have no knowledge, vague knowledge, not definite knowledge, then why should you try to give knowledge to others?

Carol: Can you have perfect knowledge?

Prabhupāda: What?

Carol: Can you have perfect knowledge,...

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are not civilized so long you are eating meat. You are dogs and cats and tigers, that's all. The tiger may be a very strong animal, but it is not to be called that he is civilized. Nobody will say the tiger is civilized.

Amogha: But we have made airplanes and cars, and if we had only waited until we knew, we never could have made it. But by trying...

Prabhupāda: All right. You have made some technical advancement. That does not mean you are civilized. Civilized means the Aryans. They know what is the soul. That is civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: But we have seen in the Eastern countries where the people don't eat meat, they are at the same time very primitive. Very uncivilized, like savages.

Amogha: They don't have enough food.

Paramahaṁsa: No technology, no education.

Prabhupāda: Because you have plundered them for the last two thousand years. You rascals, rogues, you have plundered. You have taken all their money, all their jewels, all their gold, and made British Museum. (laughter) It is due to you. (noise in background) What is the dog? Some dog?

Amogha: Oh, that is the siren. You mean the siren?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some bird.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: In the beginning stage of devotional service when we are trying to make advancement, we have to tolerate the urges of the senses. But is there a point...

Prabhupāda: That is tapasya.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is tapasya, that voluntarily we accept some inconvenience. That is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). The tapasa means first brahmacarya, how to avoid sex desire. That is the first tapasa. Tapasā brahmacaryena samena vā, yamena niyamena vā, damena tyāgena satya-śaucābhyām (SB 6.1.13). The steps are there. So tapasā, tapasā... Tapasya means first brahmacarya, how to restrain this sex desire. That is first step. Where is their tapasya? "It is very difficult to do this tapasya. Oh." Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra regularly, you'll be cured. Otherwise, regular tapasya is almost impossible nowadays.

Paramahaṁsa: Is there a stage after a person becomes completely purified...?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Can't remember the name. You mean the supersonic ones?

Devotee (1): Yeah, the big jets, and no one can... There's not enough people to fly in them. Therefore they have to finish them. They have to scrap their big jets. They're not of any use because there's not enough people to fly. They're coming to the end of their technological research. Also in the cars they cannot... There's one car, the Volkswagen. They cannot refine the body any more, so now they're simply making the same car each year without any change in the design, because they've reached the perfection of their design and they're not making any more advancement. They're coming to a halt.

Prabhupāda: When they will come to a halt to their sex desire? They have designed so many ways sex desire. The... Who was telling me that some beach, all naked women are there?

Amogha: Oh, yes. In Australia also. They reserve a certain beach for naked bathers.

Prabhupāda: So this is also sex desire. When it will come to end? Most artificial civilization. And the man who came, he is meant for solving the problems, huh?

Amogha: Yes. Usually those type of persons, they just study the problems, but...

Prabhupāda: So what is the study? Anyone can study. Just like we are giving: "It is a most artificial civilization."

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: With all the universities and high-class schools they're simply producing...

Prabhupāda: Fourth-class men.

Amogha: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning śamaḥ. Śamaḥ, damaḥ-first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?

Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...

Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them—that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? (break)

Paramahaṁsa: In that verse it says, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. What is the difference between jñānam and vijñānam?

Prabhupāda: Jñānam means theoretical, vijñānam means practical.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So changing. So you are changing your body. That's a fact. But because you are seeing all in one spool, you are thinking, "It is growing; it is moving." That's all. But it is changing. This is the science. So body is changing. And you remember that you had such-and-such body. Therefore you are different from the body. This is the science. So unless we understand that "I am not this body. I am different from the body. I am changing bodies. Therefore I will have to change this body and accept another body..." This is the science, beginning of scientific knowledge. Without understanding this fact his advancement of knowledge is simply for eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. There is no advancement. According to Vedic literature, he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

If we cannot understand ourself... It is very simple, that "I have changed my body so many times, so naturally, when this body will be useless in this life, then I will have to accept another body." This is the version of... (Aside:) You find out.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They are not progressing. They are rascals. What their meaning of progressing, these fourth-class men? That is our verdict, Kṛṣṇa's verdict. What progress? If you have made progress, then you are thinking, "What will happen, future?" Where is your progress? You rest assured that "We have made so much progress. Now there will be no more problem." So why you have engaged so many so-called rascals again to solve the problems? Where is your advancement? If you are full of anxiety, then where is your happiness? Is anyone who is full of anxiety he is happy? Is he happy?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, not... But if he takes some intoxicant or he goes to cinema, then he feels better.

Prabhupāda: You are adding rascal upon rascal. (laughs) They do not know. They are fools. They are rascals. The same philosophy: if you have got enemy in the front you close your eyes and he kills you. The rabbit, they do that. As soon as they find some big animal, they close.

Amogha: Ostriches stick their head in a hole in the ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: But there must be some progress because so many are joining the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They are making real advancement. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Their these material anxieties will be over. They are making advancement. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam (CC Antya 20.12). By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa their dirty heart will be cleansed, and as soon as it is fully cleansed, the problems of material existence will be over. No more anxiety.

Paramahaṁsa: They seem happy, but... The devotees of Kṛṣṇa seem happy, but they don't do much practical work. They always sing and dance and ask for some money. But they don't work any practical thing. We're doing so many practical things.

Prabhupāda: Dancing is not working? And writing book is not working? Selling book is not working? What is working then? Hm? Like monkey jumping? Yes? That is working?

Amogha: But we are helping people practically like in the hospital or the alcoholics...

Prabhupāda: No, what... How you are helping? Do you think if one goes to hospital he will not die? And how you are helping? You are thinking you are helping.

Amogha: But he lives longer.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhāgavata says taravo kiṁ na jīvanti. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that this material world is worse, I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Kṛṣṇa. That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? (break) ...cars, they have come to botanical garden? No.

Madhudviṣa: No, they go, they park their cars here and they walk into town.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Why?

Madhudviṣa: They don't like to pay money for parking space. They park out here and walk into their different office buildings. (break)

Prabhupāda: It is said (Bengali). A villager, very poor man, he says, "I am very poor man. I live on eating the grasshoppers."

Madhudviṣa: Grasshoppers.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Society... that's like your child wants to go to hell. But it is not the duty of the father to allow him to go to hell. Society want... Because the society does not know, the government does not know how to uplift the position of the human being. They do not know it. They know that the animals and we are the same. They simply loiter naked, and we are nicely dressed, that's all. Finished civilization. I remain animal, but my advancement is because I am very nicely dressed. That is the standard now. But the Vedic civilization is not. The animal must change the consciousness. He must be trained up a human being. Just that is... You say.

Devotee:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: So, people should be trained up.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That was never any more, but if they are realizing that, that is very good.

Guest 1: But you can't say that scientists are working in a way that is opposite to God's will.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say. They say, oh yes. I have met many scientists. They say that "We shall solve everything by scientific advancement. We have done already." They say like that.

Guest 1: But just because they...

Prabhupāda: Just like there is a big theory, chemical theory. One big scientist... Big or small, whatever he may be, he has got a Nobel Prize.

Guest 1: He's medium sized. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest 1: He's medium sized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student. He is my disciple. He challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemicals. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The advancement of knowledge in any department, that is very good. But what is the aim? The aim is to glorify the Supreme Lord. Just like you are lawyer. You gave us help in some difficulty time. Why? Because you wanted to continue glorification of the Lord, that "These men are doing nice. Why they should be harassed?" So that means you helped glorification of the Lord. So that's your success as a lawyer. So anyone who helps this movement, that "They are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. They should be helped in all respect," that is the perfection. Everything is required, but it should be culminated in the matter of glorifying the Supreme. Then it is perfect. In another place... Find out this verse,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam

(SB 1.2.13)

Just like you have helped this institution in a difficult position. That means you have pleased Kṛṣṇa. That is your success. My devotees are in difficulty.

They wanted some legal help. You, as a lawyer, helped them, so you have pleased Kṛṣṇa, God. That is the aim of life. Whether by my work in different spheres, as a lawyer, as a businessman, or as a scholar, as a philosopher, as a scientist, as an economist... There are so many demands. It doesn't matter. But you should see whether you are successful. And what is the standard of success? The standard of success is whether you have pleased God. You read this. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ...

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."

Therefore our paper's name is Back to Godhead. Don't make any false advancement. You will never be happy. This is our propaganda. It is called nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stop material way of life; begin spiritual way of life and come to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you cultivate spiritual life, then, after giving up this body... We have to give up. This is material body. And after giving up this body, we can accept..., we can continue our spiritual body or we can accept again material body. That will require our sense how to cultivate. So if we cultivate spiritual life, some percentage, not that everyone will be able, at least the higher class, higher section of the society, if they cultivate spiritual life and remain ideal, so others may follow. This is our propaganda.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Anardhena naya-rahitam.. This is stated in Bhāgavatam: "If you have no money, then you won't get justice." You can purchase justice. This is Kali-yuga. Anardhena naya-rahitam. (break) What people mean by religion? (break) ...not serious. Nobody is serious about religion. So what do they think about religion?

Bali-mardana: They think it is a nice thing so that the people will work hard and not create any trouble. (break)

Upendra: ...Protestant work ethic. Protestant work ethics. The western culture has developed because of that work ethic based on, "You work hard and go to church." "Work hard and believe in God," this is the advancement, why western culture is..., is one theory why it's...

Prabhupāda: Why shall I believe in God? What is the benefit? Work hard... Now, of course, I shall work hard; I will get money. That's all right. Why shall I believe in God?

Śrutakīrti: Because if you work hard and believe in God then He'll save you at death. By working hard, then you'll be saved.

Prabhupāda: That's what the Communists say. They do not believe in God. So?

Harikeśa: Believing in God makes it all worthwhile. It makes you feel better while you're working hard.

Prabhupāda: Those who are atheists, they are also working hard. They are feeling nice by drinking. Why shall I believe in God? Let me drink.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Like munis. So many minds, so many ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "If a muni, thoughtful man, hasn't got a different opinion then he is not muni." (laughter) And that is going on. They take it as advancement. There is no standard knowledge. You speak something, and if somebody refutes it with something else, then he is advanced. And then another comes, he becomes more advanced than the second one. And then another comes. So there is no standard knowledge. What is today standard knowledge, tomorrow it is obsolete. Another standard knowledge. So in that way nobody knows what is the standard knowledge. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But we don't follow that process. We follow one standard knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is our distinction between the ordinary scholars and our... And we are on the safe side because we don't manufacture, speculate. That is troublesome. If I have to defeat you, then I will have to speak so many things. I will have to find out the device how can I defeat you. But we have got one standard knowledge. I may be fool, rascal, but we repeat Kṛṣṇa. So our method is very easy. We are challenging everyone. Just like there are many scientific disciples. So I am not a science man. I have never studied science. But scientists, they are becoming my disciple. From material point of view, I have no education in science, but why the scientist is becoming my disciple? Is he becoming fool? After taking his doctorate title, he is becoming fool so that he is accepting me as spiritual master? Therefore the Vedic injunction is correct when it says, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. "If you know Kṛṣṇa perfectly well, then you know everything well." That is the Vedic injunction. So unless you know Kṛṣṇa well, your knowledge is imperfect. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if they read my books, they will be benefited. There is no doubt about it.

Bahulāśva: Yes. Then they can get a degree recognized by the state of California so they can teach in universities all over the whole country.

Prabhupāda: That I want. Do it. We want to give degrees, at least B.A., M.A., and Ph.D., according to the advancement of knowledge. And that will be very much beneficial to your country. Then America will be saved from disaster and it will be the leader. The country will be leader of the whole world. Take this advantage.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are some questions about exactly how to do this college. We will be licensed by the state of California, that is no problem. We can get a license immediately.

Prabhupāda: Get it.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Get it, and the, what is called, syllabus, that we shall give. We have got so many books. We shall select this book for graduate, this book for post-graduate, and these books for Ph.D.'s.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Even you have different levels. Like they can undergraduately study Bhagavad-gītā, but in graduate they can study it more intensely, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in general course they select some passages from some books. So we can do that.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because their leaders have gone dead. The leaders are Jawaharlal Nehru and company.

Indian guest: They have destroyed. The Nehru family has destroyed India. He was atheist.

Prabhupāda: Even Gandhi, even Gandhi.

Indian guest: Gandhi believed in God, but Nehru didn't believe in God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. Everyone believes in God. That is another thing, but one must know who is God. That is advancement. Here also, the people say, "God, God is great." But as soon God comes, "Here I have come," they don't believe it.

Indian guest: These people are good chors, and actually they can steal something...

Prabhupāda: Even Dr. Radhakrishnan he did not believe Kṛṣṇa. So this is the disease. God comes personally and says, "Here I am." They won't believe. That is the difficulty.

Indian guest: Really, it is some kind of sanctifying to a person to come in contact with a real sādhu. In India I run into hundreds of sādhus, and I donate some money, but completely... Well, this poverty probably has brought this corruption, in that whole temple. I go to Benares and I go to Mathurā and I go to any temple, Badnatham(?), and those people only they are after money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian guest: This has been over the... I don't know how it can be corrected, those holy places.

Prabhupāda: So you see, they are living within the sand... (laughter)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore he says, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" Because there is no education. He does not know the difference between dog and the human being. Therefore he says that "What is the wrong if I become a dog? I will get more facility for sex without any criminal charges." This is the advancement of education.

Dr. John Mize: How does the mind, then, come to know that there is a soul?

Prabhupāda: That I say, that you have to educated. How these people are convinced about the soul? They have been educated by practice and by knowledge. Everything has to be learned by being educated. And therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārtham, "In order to know that science," gurum eva abhigacchet, "you must go to guru, teacher." So the answer is that you must go to the teacher who can teach you how the soul is there.

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda, the professor asked what is the relationship with the soul and the mind?

Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position. Therefore those who are under treatment, they must be strict observation—he may not do something wrong so that treatment may be hampered.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.

Dr. Pore: In that illustration is Kṛṣṇa the sunshine or is Kṛṣṇa the sun?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the person. God is ultimately a person. And then, by His another potency, He is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramānu-cay... He is situated within the atom also. That is called Paramātmā, Supersoul. And He is situated in His impersonal, the whole material creation or any creation. The example is given just like fire. Fire is one place but its heat and light is expanded to mines. Just like the sun. It is a fire light, but heat and light is expanded throughout the universe. So similarly, God is one and His energy is expanded everywhere. You can understand Him by His energies. Just like the government, the president, he is not here, but still, we are under government. Who can deny, that "I am not under government"? If you say, "I do not see who is president. What is the government?" That is not argument. You are. Simply you have to make your eyes to see how you are under Kṛṣṇa. That is required. But you are already.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Viṣṇujana: Is that why you keep traveling, Prabhupāda, so they won't catch you?

Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was accused by Prajāpati Dakṣa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sādhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Nārada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?

Brahmānanda: In Los Angeles, yes. I understand they've demonstrated before, someone was saying? They had placards, and they were marching.

Bhāvānanda: In Laguna Beach they also.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Dr. Judah has said...

Brahmānanda: He has dedicated his book, "To the parents and to the devotees."

Prabhupāda: He has tried to pacify the parents.

Brahmānanda: Yes. Another parent is coming to see you today.

Prabhupāda: Oh, to accuse me? (laughter)

Brahmānanda: No, her son said she is very favorable. She's the mother of Parīkṣit.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Harikeśa: The Brahmavādīs have some possibility of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Harikeśa: What is that thing that enables them to advance?

Prabhupāda: That you will know later on. First of all try to understand this. Don't try to understand everything in a moment. That is foolishness. (break) That argument is clear?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That if you call it a machine, how the machine can grow?

Ambarīṣa: The machine is changing at every second.

Prabhupāda: You say two things: "Growing" and "machine." So that is incomparable. Machine cannot grow.

Ambarīṣa: Jaya. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...many machines. You get another machine, another one, and another and another.

Prabhupāda: So I have changed so many machines. So death means another machine. Where is the difficulty?

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is not like you that when you are given some business, you become embarrassed. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and you. He never becomes embarrassed.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it true that our advancement in devotional services... Is it influenced a lot by our past karma, how many sinful activities we have committed?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Bhakti is not under karma. Bhakti is under your good will. If you accept to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you can do that without being checked by anything else. Simply you have to will, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa. You are asking me. So long I did not do. From this day I do." That will depend upon you.

Devotee (2): Not that if I was more sinful, I would make less advancement than somebody who is more pious.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be, simply surrender and everything is finished. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... (BG 18.66). Even if you are sinful, Kṛṣṇa will give you release, "All right. You have surrendered. That's all right." That is wanted. If you reserve something and cheat Kṛṣṇa, "Now I am surrendering," Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent. "You have still reservation. No." (break)

Devotee (1): ...it's easier to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in sattva-guṇa one can see, one can understand his position. (break)

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: It is not a problem. Just like there is disease, and there is remedy also. And as much as the disease is chronic, the remedy is also costly. So in the western countries—do not mind—they are not trying to educate first-class men, and that is the difficulty. This advancement, technical knowledge, to have nice motor cars or big, big buildings, highways, this is very good, but this is not the aim of life.

Mayor: No, material things should not be.

Prabhupāda: They are missing the aim of life. That is the... The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there. It is called Brahma-sūtra or Vedānta-sūtra. Perhaps you have heard the name, Vedānta philosophy. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. In the materialistic way of knowledge they did not find any end, and they accept it "That this is progress." But one must come to the end of the knowledge, what is the ultimate knowledge. So generally they are missing what is the ultimate knowledge. We are searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge? The ultimate knowledge, Vedānta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means to understand the original source of everything. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of everything. Because human life is not a spot.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So can you give any proof since then that the woman's... In 1920... She does not take it?

Nitāi: She does not take it. Somehow they think that the brain is no longer small. If it was small, then, it is not small today.

Prabhupāda: But where is the proof...

Woman reporter: You do not believe that there has been advancement of science since 1920?

Nitāi: Well, if the brain has been ascertained as being half the size then why should it change by now? Should it change?

Woman reporter: Well, do you think that the Romans weren't as tall as men are today?

Nitāi: No, but the... But then, within fifty years there is not going to be any change in the brain.

Woman reporter: Not in the 1900's. Why do you use the technology that you use? You didn't have cars in those days, this television. Things have changed since 1920.

Prabhupāda: So what change has become? Can you give any evidence that woman is more powerful in brain than the man during these years? Can you give any evidence?

Woman reporter: No, what I'm saying is that...

Prabhupāda: Now, can you give any evidence that woman has become more powerful than the man during these fifty years?

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I explained.

Brahmānanda: Yes. Of raising the child. Therefore they create some...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, what is the reason? They know there are so many troubles. To avoid the troubles, "Kill this." That's all. So to save trouble, people are prepared to kill child even.

Brahmānanda: And that's considered advancement, in modern life, to remove trouble. The whole life is conveniences, remove trouble. That shows they will go to any extent.

Prabhupāda: So trouble that is, atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, how to mitigate or finish all trouble, that they do not know. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). So long you will get this body, you will have trouble. But that they do not know, how to stop getting another body. So trouble is not mitigated in that way. You increase your entanglement, become sinful. You again take another body to suffer this sinful reaction. (end)

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: I think you've answered this question, but he wants to know how will Kṛṣṇa consciousness affect all the religions and politics of the world at this time.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on. Therefore, despite all advancement of education, economic development, people are in chaotic condition, they are not satisfied, and everything is being tried to make it very nice. The United Nation is there, working for the last thirty years, but there is no solution because it is all zero without God. Bring God and everything will be nice. Take any question, just like economic question. There is now very acute, especially in our country. Now, the God says that "Your economic problem will be solved like this." What is that? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "You produce sufficient quantity of food grains." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "Then both the animals and man will sufficiently eat, and they will be satisfied." What is the wrong there? You must have sufficient food. Then annād bhavanti bhūtāni. And anna, producing anna, you require cloud in the sky. And that is produced by yajña. So one after another. So people must be satisfied first of all by eating sumptuously. So instead of producing food grains, you are very much busy for producing motor tires. So motor tire will not make the hungry people satisfied. So everything is there, practical, whatever is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Bhaktadāsa: Prabhupāda, one more question before we break for prasādam. That is, why do we practice bhakti-yoga instead of jñāna-yoga?

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Actually, the fact is that now the scientists are spending so much money on this research, but the research is only being used in their personal homes. The common people have never seen any of these great devices. This one devotee, Jayarama, his uncle is a big scientist. He has created this radio telescope. So I saw pictures of his personal home, and it must cost about $300,000. All these scientific devices he has. But the people never see those things. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: ...and for all the success of scientific advancement, they have not created any love for God or their fellow man.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They should scientifically explain what is Kṛṣṇa. Then their science is perfect. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22), education, tapasya, sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddha-dattayoḥ, charity and gentleness, all good qualities. So kavibhiḥ nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ, big personalities they have decided, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. If, by their knowledge they can establish vāsudevaḥ sarvam..., Kṛṣṇa is the origin, then their scientific knowledge is perfect. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ means great learned scholars. They have decided like this, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam, instead of talking all nonsense, "This is this. This is this," if they can scientifically explain that "Kṛṣṇa is the original scientist, and His brain has done this like this, like this..." That is Bhāgavata, who is the original scientist, who is original philosopher, original—everything original. Anādir ādir govindaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Govinda is the origin of everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Vāsudeva is the original founder. That is a fact. The origin is Kṛṣṇa, but they do not find it. Now, this sprinkling is being done, water and air. Now, who is the origin of air and water? You have combined together, utilizing as a spray, but who is the origin of air and water? You cannot manufacture air or water. You are taking advantage of it by mixing together, sprinkling, but where is the origin of water and air?

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious is not so cheap. Have you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Don't take Kṛṣṇa consciousness so cheap that they will go to cinema and become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Brahmānanda: No, he says that if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then they will stop going to the cinema.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the test. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42). Advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he's no more interested with anything material. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is a Bengali proverb, ami dugdha khaya eta mako khaya: "The children, they take milk, and adults, they smoke." So one is speaking that "I take milk and smoke also."

Brahmānanda: He thinks he's all right. "I'm okay."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "I go to temple and I do all nonsense also." Hare Kṛṣṇa. We shall go directly temple?

Brahmānanda: Yes. (end)

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine. So one English doctor was his professor, Colonel Maylow(?). So he was lecturing and... Now the friends have come to greet. He said that "In our country 75%, at least, students are infected with syphilis."

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They shoot.

Brahmānanda: They have a system, automatic shooting, that if you cross a certain line, they have these rays of light, and if you break the ray of light, then automatically all machine guns start firing in the whole area. It's all done...

Prabhupāda: This is their scientific advancement.

Brahmānanda: They've made such a nice place that they're afraid the people will escape from it.

Prabhupāda: And they are thinking, "This system is for happiness."

Brahmānanda: If it's for happiness, then why prevent people from leaving?

Prabhupāda: "Why?"—that you are asking. They think it is happiness. That is called māyā. It is not happiness; still, if somebody is thinking happiness, that is called māyā.

Dhanañjaya: But even if they cross the line successfully, they'll only suffer misery on the other side too.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: Yes. This is another point.

Dhanañjaya: They'll only suffer another kind of misery.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Do you know this? (break) ...go somewhere, better go, at least four men; and when you read some knowledge, at least two men; but when you eat, one man. Don't bring four men and two men. Then he will be hungry; you will be hungry. (laughter) So for advancement of knowledge, two men at least required, discussion—not that I am reading and sleeping also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Just before coming here we were in Laguṇa Beach, and Guru-kṛpa Mahārāja, Yaśodānandana Mahārāja, Paramahaṁsa Mahārāja, Viṣṇujana Mahārāja and myself, we got your new books, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we were reading constantly from early in the morning. We found it was very enlivening, the fact that we were reading amongst a number of devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is called iṣṭagoṣṭhī, or discussion. Discussion does not take place alone. There must be at least two.

Indian man (1): Dvabhyanaṁ pathanaṁ pathī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvabhyaṁ patanam. (Hindi) ...instruction... (Hindi) Either you speak in Bengali or in Sanskrit. (break) Then that is an asset. One day they will come to help us. It is called ajñāta-sukṛtī, devotional advancement without knowledge. Even... (break) ...have appreciated. In Hyderabad, these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs were challenged by the people, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has gone to foreign countries, and he established so many Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. What did you do? If you say that you disagree with Bhaktivedanta Swami—you worship demigods—so how many demigods' temple you have established?" They challenge like that. "If you say that you are worshiper of Lord Śiva, why don't you go and establish a Śiva temple? You are sitting idly here."

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science. What is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daiv hy eṣ guṇamay mama māy duratyayā. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature. Hm? Can you? Brahmānanda can. (laughter) He is strong enough. Kartikeya, you can do it?

Kartikeya (Indian Life Member): No, I can't do it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kartikeya: We depend upon nature, so we can't counteract.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible. It is all foolishness.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Indian culture is given (Hindi), that to allow them to worship the demigods means at least to accept the authority, and then they gradually come to the supreme authority. Just like for the common man, to give respect to the police constable means giving respect to the government. But the police constable is not the president of the government. So one should know who is the president. That is advancement. If you remain, simply offering respect to the constable, that is not advancement.

Guest (4): Indian philosophy has always taught that light comes from many lamps. But you are preaching that...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: He says Indian culture has always taught that light comes from many lamps.

Guest (4): But you are preaching... (loud static)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the supreme light. There are degrees of light. There is sunlight, and there is this light. You cannot compare this light with sun. (laughter) Light are so many, but that does not mean the sunlight and this light is the same.

Guest (4): No, what I...

Prabhupāda: First of all you understand this. You have questioned about the light. First of all you understand there are degrees of light. You cannot say this light and the sunlight is the same.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is happening actually by this movement.

Prabhupāda: We are not for material opulence. We are for ideal character. That is wanted. But they have no idea that there can be a class of men, ideal character, ideal knowledge, ideal advancement. They have no such idea. "Simply bring money and enjoy sense gratification," that's all. In that way they will never be happy, but foolish person, they have no leader to give them ideal and neither by nature they are not inclined. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Who is giving them ideal that "Come to God, and you will be satisfied"? Nobody is giving. They are simply durāśayā. They are thinking by material opulence they will be happy. This is their ignorance. Therefore so much struggle all over the world. It is not the question of India or America. It is the material way of life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They put forward the argument sometimes, though, that it is very natural to try to enjoy. Everyone is doing it, so why should we fight the nature? People say like this.

Prabhupāda: You enjoy, but where is your enjoyment? Why don't you see to this? Therefore this is not the way of enjoyment. We say there is enjoyment. Just like a diseased person, he wants enjoyment. How he can enjoy? He is diseased person. It is not possible for the diseased person to enjoy. First of all he has to cure his disease. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). First of all, your existence should be purified by tapasya. Be cured of the disease. Then you'll enjoy. Enjoyment is your right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is your right, but you are now diseased. Why don't you see to this? You are dying therefore. You are becoming old therefore. This is your disease. That they will not admit. In the diseased condition they want to enjoy. Then tuberculosis. If a tuberculosis person, suffering from tuberculosis, he wants to enjoy sex, that means he will die very soon. His life is finished. But he wants that, that "I shall suffer from tuberculosis, at the same time enjoy." Then all right, go to hell. What can be done? Enjoyment is the life, but when you are diseased, you must first of all "Heal thyself," then enjoy. That enjoyment will be nice. This is the instruction of śāstra, that you are working so hard day and night like hogs and dogs, but where is your enjoyment? First of all cure your disease. Then you will be happy.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God. But if you do not know God, then what is the value of your knowledge?

Indian man (3): Quite right.

Prabhupāda: If you say like a rascal that "I am God," is that knowledge?

Indian man (3): It's no knowledge at all.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Still they claim they are advanced Aryans.

Indian lady: And Vallabhācārya?

Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya, he was a Vaiṣṇava. He worships Kṛṣṇa, Bal Kṛṣṇa. That's all right.

Indian lady: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Indian man: (Indian man asks Prabhupāda if he speaks Gujarati in Gujarati or Hindi)

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: But death is sure. If you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the point. (laughs) Death is sure. And if you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the proof. Suppose I am sitting here, we are walking here, and some danger is coming. It will immediately kill. So shall I remain here very peacefully? First of all make insurance, just like they make insurance, that no death will come. Your scientific advancement, your so many advancement, make it sure that you will not die. You will live here comfortably forever. Then you make your house nice, decorate it very... Where is that arrangement?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if death is sure in any case... If death is sure in any case, for the thinking man or for the nonthinking man, then why think about it?

Prabhupāda: No, non... For thinking men, for them there is no death; there is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between thinking men and nonthinking men. We are preparing for going... (break) There is... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligence. Now, suppose that here is open field. There is... We are walking very nicely. And the downtown, congested city, that is not very nice. So at least, if I don't spoil my energy to make the place uncomfortable, if I save my energy and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this open field, that is intelligence or that is intelligent? Which is intelligent? We are also going to die. That's all right. But we are going to die like intelligent person, not like cats and dogs. That is the difference.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body. That means they do not know what is life. And as soon as the life is gone, the body is there—they cannot explain. This is their ignorance. Why the life is stopped? And they are very proud of advancement. And bring in life again. That they cannot do. That means the whole basic principle is ignorance. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). Eh? Then?

Harikeśa: Rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caivam.

Prabhupāda: Ah, rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caiva prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. Prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. Because they have taken the shelter of prakṛti, material nature, bewildered and captivated, they do not know what is the aim of life—moghāśā, "all baffled." Mogha karmāṇam: "Whatever they are doing, that will be useless." Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā: (BG 9.12) there is no knowledge. There is no knowledge. Hm?

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So with their advancement of knowledge...

Prabhupāda: What is the advancement of knowledge?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are increasing sex life, and actually the advancement of knowledge should be decreasing sex life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know what is knowledge. The knowledge means sex life. That is their knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means how to enjoy sex life, how to take shelter of abortion, child-killing, and then contraceptive method—whole thing on the basis of sex life. That's all. They do not know except these things. They know there is botheration after sex life, but they cannot give it up. Therefore all these arrangements: take contraceptive, kill child, and what... That means the whole thing is based on sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Is that pleasure? They think it is pleasure to unite the urinals. (laughter) And this is pleasure, a standard of pleasure most third class, fourth class. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ tuccham: very abominable. Tuccham, the śāstra says, "most abominable." And they take it pleasure, and they make arrangement for this. When the dog enjoys sex life... Therefore they are allowed to do it on the street. People can see it. Is that very nice scene? The same thing is done by the human being, and they are taking: "This is all, everything." This is basic principle of their happiness. That's all. Mohinī, mohinī. This is captivation. And nature has made the woman's face so attractive, beautiful, their breast, their hips, attractive, their sound, talking, singing, all very attractive, walking, and now they are dressing naked. They are showing simply the vagina, all other parts of the body clothed. This is going on. Whole thing is based on sex life, and that is tuccham, most abominable. Prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. It will take three hundred times births to understand that this sex life is abominable.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: There should be a function, all the brāhmaṇas and relatives should come, and there will be ceremony, and everyone will know that "This man is going to now sex, have sex for begetting children." This is ceremony, not secretly like cats and dogs. Cats and dogs also, they do not do secretly. A human being do it secretly and do not want the botheration. Therefore their scientific advancement means how to kill the child, how to make abortion, how to take contraceptive pills, how to distribute them, how allow the children, "Yes, you go on, but take these pills so that you may not be bothered." Yes. Why not stop it, botheration? That you cannot, because animals. Because animal civilization, they cannot do it. Kaṇḍutive manivasi viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Why don't you teach them to become dhīraḥ, sober—"Let me tolerate this itching sensation"—brahmacārī? That teaching is not good. You do it repeatedly, suffer, and suffer consequences. And to stop it they suffer in so many ways, suffering, suffering. Bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Sex life, illicit or legal, the after-effect is suffering. Even it is not illicit—it is legal—then to take care of the wife or the children, for their education, for their upliftment and so on, so on, so on—suffering. And if it is illicit, then these sufferings: you commit sinful activities, kill the child, contraceptive, with the abortion, go to the doctor, pay, and so on, so on. So where is no suffering? Either legal or illicit, you have to suffer. Bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ. These rascals, once they have done, "That's all right. You have got one child. Just take of." "No, again, again." Once you have committed sinful activities, killing the child in the womb, "All right, stop it now." "No, again." Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana. He's never satisfied. He knows that there is suffering behind this. Still, he'll not stop it. Therefore a sober man... A man should be educated to become sober, that "Let me tolerate this itching, that's all. I save so much trouble." This is knowledge. To become rascal and more rascal and more rascal and suffer, is that civilization? Simply to make the people rascal and suffer and commit suicide? Just tell them that he has created this civilization that suffer and become rascal. That's all. Unless you become rascal, how you will suffer?

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No, it is made by the scientists. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...behind the frozen body was that if someone had an incurable disease, they thought that they could suspend the life by freezing it, and then, when they found the cure for the disease, they would unfreeze him or thaw him out and cure him of his disease so that he could live again.

Prabhupāda: And these childish activities are taken as scientific advancement.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there a Vedic definition of science?

Prabhupāda: Vijñāna. Jñāna-vijñāna. (break) ...not this science, experimental. That is not science. Vedic knowledge is science.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So there is no experimental science in Vedic culture.

Prabhupāda: Experimental science is condemned. What you will make, ex... You are imperfect. What is the value of your experiment? Therefore it is rejected. Whatever you'll do, that is imperfect. First of all you become perfect; then you make experiment. But you are... You remain imperfect, and you making experiment. What is the value of it? (break) ...is no experimental knowledge. All established truth. That is vijñāna, or science.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Established truth.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: One city is finished.

Harikeśa: Fifty thousand?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Each year.

Brahmānanda: It used to be ten thousand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, fifty thousand. That was years ago even.

Prabhupāda: So this is the advancement. Every year one city is finished. This is the advancement.

Brahmānanda: They were making one joke that on the independence day of America everyone goes out in their car and celebrates. They were making a joke that more people will die by the celebration than died in the original battle of getting the independence. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just see their intelligence. Andha yathāndhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ (SB 7.5.31). By nature's law they are bound up hands and legs, and still, they are trying to do something independently. That is their fault.

Indian man: Don't you think that the scientists have done good things but people have...

Prabhupāda: What is that good thing, first of all say.

Indian man: For example, they have invented medicines like the...

Prabhupāda: But have they stopped disease?

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why different bodies? If you are not responsible, then why do you get different bodies?

Yaśomatīnandana: "That is because I did not know in the past that I was, I am a spirit soul. But now I know that I am spirit soul."

Prabhupāda: But you did not know in the past. So you were a fool in the past. You are fool now also. Where is your advancement?

Yaśomatīnandana: "Now I know that I am a soul. I am not this..."

Prabhupāda: Simply by knowing soul is not good. Why you have got this body? Why everyone wants a king's body or a very nice body? Why he gets a dog's body? What is the reason? Everyone wants: "I may have a very good body so that I can enjoy." But why he is baffled? He gets a cat's body, dog's body, insect body, tree's body. He has also body, but he is standing there for hundreds of years. He cannot move an inch. So why you have got this facility of this body that you can move, you can cut, but he cannot protest? He is also body. And what is he? Who?

Yaśomatīnandana: "It is because of my past karma."

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is ahaṅkāra.

Prabhupāda: False ahaṅkāra. Because he is not body, it is false ahaṅkāra. So śāstra therefore says, bhagavad-bhakti vihinasya jati japas tapaḥ kriya. A person who has not developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him this advancement of nationality, big work, industry, so on, so on, so on, jati japas tapaḥ kriya... Kriya, these act...

Dr. Patel: Activities.

Prabhupāda: :What are these? Apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. It has no value. But people are enamored by these things, "I belong to great nation. I am American. We have got so many industries. We have got so many cars." Attachment. So it is very difficult. Sarvo-padhi-vinirmuktam. One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations, to become a devotee is very, very difficult. There is no education.

Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhavena, from all sides and from all degrees.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. So we are dealing with very, very difficult task. It is not very easy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Naturally we have got attraction for God. That is spiritual kingdom. Just like Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means center is Kṛṣṇa. The elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśoda, their friends, their..., they are also attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The gopīs are attracted to Kṛṣṇa, the cowherds boys, they are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The cows, calves, animals and peacock—everyone is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The water is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. And here in the material world nobody is attracted by Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All unfortunate, now they are. They have been so much trained badly. They say frankly, "Oh, this Hare Kṛṣṇa we have seen." In America when they chant... The Americans are chanting on the street, and the Indian students, "Oh, this we have done much. We have nothing to..." Here also they are thinking like that: "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? Eh? A beggars' movement." śāstra says, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), and these rascals are thinking, "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa we have seen." You see? They have become so greatly intelligent, these rascals. They do not believe in śāstra, in sādhu, in God. All these "incarnations" and big, big men, they say, "Oh, what is the use of śāstra?" Even this Ānandamāyā says that "In higher advancement there is no need of śāstra." He is above śāstra. He, she says like that. And Kṛṣṇa said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23), immediately condemned: "If you don't believe in śāstra, you are rascal." Kṛṣṇa said. And they say, "Oh, there is no need of..." And he's an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. This Bal-yogi rascal is doing that: "There is no need of śāstra." This is going on. Now he's finished, of course. His activity is finished. (break)...strength of śāstra we are challenging that "You have never gone to the moon planet." Who can do so? The whole world is accepting they have gone to moon planet, and we are challenging, "You have never gone to moon." Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just like the students, they say... What do they say? The students?

Girirāja: That in the beginning there was a chunk, and it exploded, and there's no God.

Prabhupāda: How they are spoiling the career. Whole life is spoiled. They are being taught in this way. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is going on, schools, colleges: "Don't believe in God." That has become a fashion, advancement. Yes. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But all are not like that.

Indian man (1): Not all, but some. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Not some, ninety percent.

Dr. Patel: Some of the fools like him may be thinking like that. I have been right from the... I was born in science and I never thought that there was no God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you...

Dr. Patel: Do you call me an exception?

Prabhupāda: I know that. I know. I know you.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: No, no, but I am one of the scientists. He is one of the scientists. He has put on these clothes and...

Prabhupāda: But you are supporting the rascal. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That cannot see. (laughter) That is another... So how they are bluffing, just see.

Harikeśa: In Russia they've made dogs with two heads. They've put another head on a dog in Russia, and now the dog has two heads.

Tejās: Really?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Tejās: Such advancement.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tejās: Such advancement, a two-headed dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Eventually they're going to try to have men with two heads. They first experiment with animals and then try it on men.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Rāvaṇa had ten heads, and he was killed in spite of ten heads. Still, he could not save himself from the hands of Rāma, although he had ten heads. He thought that "I have now ten heads. Who can be more intelligent than me?" And still, Rāmacandra proved, "Yes, I am better intelligent than you." (break) ...Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan?

Tejās: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun you know. It's the only way to enjoy!

Prabhupāda: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street is the same. It has no difference of taste.

Harikeśa: So then we can have sex on the street.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are going to have that, next life! (laughter) Because you are desiring, you will get this life. Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante māyā... (BG 4.11). Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Kṛṣṇa is within you. You are thinking that I will be very much happy if I enjoy sex like the dog. Kṛṣṇa notes, and next life, "My dear friend here is the body. You enter and enjoy." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). He is noting down your desire. Hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Māyayā brāhmayan sarva-bhūtāni, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is clearly explained. Alright, you want the enjoyment like dog, here is. Remembrance is also there. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). You wanted to enjoy sex like a dog. Now I have given you this body, now you enjoy. Everything is there, arranged.

Harikeśa: Yes, but dogs they have to lead a pretty miserable life.

Prabhupāda: But you have also, you have got, not living very happy life, this human society. There are others, even Indira Gandhi, she's always disturbed. Who is happy here? I saw personally. Oh, she is so disturbed. Everyone is unhappy. Who is happy here?

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: He loses his own bread and there is no other bread. That's all. (Sanskrit) The lion he thought there is another lion within the well, and jumped over it. He lost his life, that's all. This going on. So, he's so strong, lion, it is fabulously strong, but he's animal. In spite of so much strength, he's an animal. Similarly this modern civilization, in spite of so much so-called advancement, they are simply animals. That's all. A big animal is eulogized by another small animal, that's all. Animal is animal, big animal or small. (pointing out on the road) Just see he hasn't got master, and what is his condition?

Harikeśa: Pretty bad.

Prabhupāda: This is śūdra. If anyone depends on the master's mercy, he's a śūdra. Here in New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that's all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. Now when the government will be finished, they will be street dog. That's all. This is your civilization. Immediately if all of a sudden there is attack in New Delhi, all the people will starve. There is no food at all, and they'll die.

Harikeśa: That's a really important point that the government takes more and more, and everybody gets poorer and poorer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The government is also poor because they do not know how to govern. Buddhi yasya balaṁ tasya. If one has got intelligence he has got strength.

Harikeśa: Change of government means getting poorer.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). That is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga also, vidyā. Vyāsadeva also says, anārthopasanaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. To get rid of this entanglement, unnecessary things, the only means is bhakti.

Dr. Patel: Modern advancement of science is actually here, entangle the man in more and more bonds. But by raising, creating more bonds for comfort, comfortable life...

Prabhupāda: What comfort?

Dr. Patel: Comfortable life means...

Prabhupāda: That is another...

Dr.Patel: Comfortable life means comfort of the body.

Prabhupāda: To get a comfortable life, one has to work so hard: "Where is comfort?"

Dr. Patel: (laughs) Yes. That is his foolishness. In Europe they actually run in the morning to go to their work. They run like mad dogs.

Prabhupāda: But we are also...

Dr. Patel: They may start running now. They are following them.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Advanced means Freud's philosophy.

Dr. Patel: So-called advancement.

Prabhupāda: Sex philosophy. This is their education. So how you can expect gentlemen? It is not possible. From the very beginning there is no culture, animal culture. Just like dogs, as soon as he finds another female dog, he wants to have sex. This is education.

Dr. Patel: One friend of mine he told me that this culture is vultures' culture. They eat anything and everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not vultures. It is called hog civilization. The hog, they eat anything and they have sex with anyone.

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. These animals they don't distinguish between their own bodily relatives.

Prabhupāda: Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This is instruction. Where is culture? Culture is lost. So therefore there is no value of education. And besides that, education means spiritual education. Brahma-vidyā. This education how to make aeroplane or a nice bridge or a machine, this is called kalā-vidyā. This is not vidyā.

Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.

Lokanātha: So when they are gṛhastha, they make advancement?

Prabhupāda: Hm? That advancement is not very solid. But there is advancement; but that is not very solid.

Śrīdhara: Without sex pleasure a man and a woman would not be attracted to one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Attraction means that sex. There is no other. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedī sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the psychology. There is no other happiness. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhī sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their happiness is based on the center of sex pleasure.

Śrīdhara: So the body of a woman only reminds of the sex pleasure.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Body of man or woman. The same thing. This is the only pleasure. In this material world, so-called pleasure means sex pleasure. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the center.

Lokanātha: They say, "We want to come together to serve the Lord." Is that excuse or is that...

Prabhupāda: Together they go to hell. (laughs)

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Harikeśa: Or "I am this..."

Prabhupāda: Then he remains the same animal, cats and dogs. There is no advancement. Therefore you see despite so many rascal philosophers in the Western countries, they simply fight and bomb and cheat and politics, diplomacy. The same—on the surface of the coconut, not inside. So you have to prove that "All of you are rascals. You do not know where to get pleasure." They're missing that point. All rascals, they're putting new philosophy, thesis. So what is the value of that thesis? He does not know. It requires expert. Just like somebody has told: "In this land, there is gold." So somebody's digging here, somebody's digging there, somebody's digging there. And they are, do not find gold, and struggling. But one expert, what is called, soil expert?

Harikeśa: Geologist.

Prabhupāda: Geologist. No, geologist and soil ex..., soil expert.

Harikeśa: Minerologist.

Haṁsadūta: Mineralogist.

Prabhupāda: He can say: "Here is gold. You dig here. Here is the gold mine." Then you get gold mine. And one who is not expert, simply he has understood that "In this area, there is gold mine," and they are simply fighting; everyone has come to take the gold. But without expert knowledge, they're simply fighting. They do not find gold. That is the position. So expert knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. He therefore begins: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body, the living force, that is the soul. Because that soul is there, it is changing body, different. Try to understand that active principle. And where is that understanding? They simply putting different theses. They do not, neither do they know antithesis or synthesis.