Prabhupāda: The American atom bomb or the Russian atom bomb will kill the whole material scientists' advancement. You see? So this is the... So, and devotees, they want to decrease the fever. Decrease the fever. Therefore the highest, ideal life, according to Vedic civilization: brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇava. They decrease their demands of the body. Minimum demand. You see? There is amongst the brāhmaṇa, not now, in the Vedic system, the uñca-vṛtti. It is called uñca-vṛtti. Uñca-vṛtti means they will go the paddy field, and after the cultivator takes all the paddies, some paddies are thrown away. They will collect those paddies only. Just like birds, they collect. They collect those paddies, and that they will eat, not even beg, ask anybody for any morsel of food.
According to Vedic civilization... (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"according to our vedic civilization"
|"according to the vedic civilization"
|"according to vedic civilization"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Revatīnandana: The Republican party is elephant and the Democratic party is ass, a donkey.
Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult.
Prabhupāda: There is enough provisions. But we have made artificial divisions. "This is America." The Americans, they went from Europe, and they illegally occupied that place. Now they won't allow anyone to come there. Similarly, the Australians, they won't allow to come there. New Zealand, Africa. Why? Our philosophy: Everything belongs to God, and we are all sons of God. Everyone has got the right to live at the cost of God. This is our philosophy.
Journalist (1): But the values of Western civilization have made that...
Prabhupāda: Western civilization created artificial. "This is Africa, this is America, this is Europe..."
Journalist (1): Yes. Therefore that's made living as children of God impossible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts—everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasādam.
Journalist (1): That's a very difficult doctrine for many people in civilization...
Prabhupāda: Because... That is civilized. That is civilization.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization, even up to Maharaja Parīkṣit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy... Formerly... (indistinct) just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power. Here also there is the (indistinct) Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state. (indistinct) It is the kingdom of Maharaja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of emperor (indistinct).
But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Even my stool, I pass in the WC, and immediately I wash and become purified. Oh, this is my stool, personal, and what to speak of other stool? So stool is impure. But the Vedas say that the stool of cow is pure. So if you argue that "Cow is an animal. So animal stool is impure. How the cow stool can become pure?" that is puzzling, but because it is said by the..., ordered by the Vedas, it is fact. You analyze cow stool; you find all antiseptic matter. So therefore we accept the Vedic injunction as truth. We haven't got to make research. We save time. So according to Vedic civilization, whatever is stated in the Vedas, we take it-fact. That's all. Śruti. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti means Vedas. Pramāṇam means evidence.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of plan. These rubbish theories are going on and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? Eraṇḍāpi dhūmyate(?). When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this. "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree. So when the world is finished of all intelligent men, George Harrison is big man, that Ginsberg is big man, John Lennon is big man. According to Vedic civilization they are fourth-class men. This dramatic art was being done by a professional fourth-class man. Nāṭaka, māgadha. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking bath with His friends, and there were some professional musicians. They were playing music. And after taking bath, all the clothes were given to them.
Prabhupāda: No intoxication, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice. Therefore according to Vedic civilization in the beginning of life you become a brahmacārī. Then you are allowed to marry and become a householder, and after a number of years you remain a husband but abandon sexuality, and that is called vānaprastha. Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Most people, including scientists, they are not satisfied with the arrangement of nature.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they are making all these things.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. We cannot change the arrangement of the nature. That is not possible. What we have changed?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to be really happy, and so they say the...
Prabhupāda: No, you be happy, that is nice, because happiness is our position. According to Vedic civilization, every living entity is by nature should be happy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the nature, to become happy. But if you say that the arrangement of nature is not perfect, then you are fool.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) ...transmigration of soul. Suppose this time I am very great scientist, and next life I become a tree like this. What is my advancement? Stand up for ten thousand years. What is the advancement?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Going backwards.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Going to hell, that's all. You are trying to be naked; nature will say, "Yes, you stand here naked for ten thousand years." Yes. That is the punishment for being naked. Human life is not meant for becoming naked. That is according to Vedic civilization a great sin. You see. So their, their propensity they are increasing to become naked like our George... What's his name? Lennon, Lennon. So next time he is going to be tree, stand up.
Prabhupāda: So that means people have become so dull in spite of so-called education.
Dr. Inger: That is true.
Prabhupāda: That's, that's my point.
Dr. Inger: Oh yes. Education is merely book knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā.
Dr. Inger: ...of substance given, read, prepared.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Dr. Inger: They don't go to the basic.
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as simply wasting time. That's all.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed ratiṁ yadi
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
Śrama eva hi kevalam. Everyone is acting. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ. According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of men. brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and further, spiritual divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So everyone has got some duty according to his position. So Bhāgavata says that even a person executes his duty very perfectly, but if he does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all that he has done is simply a waste of time.
Prabhupāda: If a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But where is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ? He is engaged in "family hite ratāḥ."
Dr. Patel: If he is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ...
Prabhupāda: Then that is another thing. That is another thing. But one who is "family hite ratāḥ," "country hite ratāḥ," "community hite ratāḥ," how he can do?
Dr. Patel: So in this Bhagavān has said, sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ.
Prabhupāda: But sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Now, these people, they are hite ratāḥ of limited circle, that's all.
Mr. Sar: Ohh. That is why their... This path is not good for mankind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, one must accept sannyāsa at a certain stage.
Mr. Sar:
- kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām
- avyaktāsakta-cetasām
- avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ
- dehavadbhir avāpyate
- (BG 12.5)
Dr. Patel: Ye tu sarvāṇi karmāṇi mayi sannyāsya mat-parāḥ. Now, you have all your...
Prabhupāda: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ, that, it is very difficult. Because even Mahatma Gandhi, such a great person, he said, "Englishman, you go away." Just see. Who can be better than Mahatma Gandhi?
Prabhupāda: What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession. Otherwise, according to Vedic civilization, there is no need of sex life. Because it is entanglement, simply entanglement.
Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, you said that we should respect everyone as a devotee, but then also you teach that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. By qualification, a Vaiṣṇava respects everyone.
Satsvarūpa: But then there's also a teaching not to respect a nondevotee even if he's a big man. We may formally offer him respect, but if...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yes. Formality, you should be respectful. Suppose your enemy—that is etiquette-comes in your room. But when he has come to your room, you should offer him respect: "Come on, come on. Sit down." That is etiquette. You know that "He's my enemy." That... The etiquette according to Vedic civilization: gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. Even your enemy comes at your home, you should treat with him in such a nice way that he'll forget that you are his enemy.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him. (break) ...means from five years to twenty-five years, brahmacārī, he has nothing to learn except God, brahmacārī. Brāhme carati iti brahmacārī. He is simply interested in Brahmān. That is called brahmacārī. He has no material interest. That is the foundation of spiritual life. Brahmacārī. And if he can, he remains brahmacārī throughout the whole life. But if he is unable, then he is allowed to marry, gṛhastha. So according to Vedic civilization, any education should begin at childhood. Therefore even one is king's son, he was sent to Gurukula to remain as brahmacārī to learn the basic principle of life. That is Vedic civilization.
Guest (7): Quite right.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Copeland: I think everybody has the same amount of intelligence and ability. It's just that some of them get more breaks than others.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Everyone has got the potency, but unless he shows his intelligence, he has no value.
Dr. Copeland: Well, yeah, but a lot of people don't have a chance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So those who have no chance to become first-class men, their vote, what is the value?
Dr. Copeland: Ācchā. When you were coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness...
Prabhupāda: According to our Vedic civilization, first-class men's vote required, who knows things as they are. One who does not know things as they are, what is the use of taking vote from him? Our Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas, first-class men... The qualification of brāhmaṇa, find out. Śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma... Read.
Amogha:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.
Dr. Copeland: I'm not a first-class man.
Prabhupāda: In Paris I went without visa, and they detained me for four hours. Well, a human being has come here. Why the immigration law so strict? But that is advancement of civilization.
Bahulāśva: They have to keep out the thieves and the rogues.
Prabhupāda: That means they have created thieves and rogues. Therefore they are suspicious. Nowadays in the airport, everyone is searched. Then it is now taken for granted that all of them are cheats. So what is the value of this education if all of them are cheats? There is no discrimination, "Now, here is a educated professor, Dr. Ph.D., he cannot be searched." No, he will be also searched-because, "You may be Ph.D., but we know you are a cheat." (laughter) Is not the conclusion? Will he be excused if he says, "Oh, I am Ph.D." No, you must be searched. "You may be Ph.D., but you are a cheat." This is education. So what is the value of this education? And according to Vedic civilization, as soon as one is a brāhmaṇa, he is not within the jurisdiction of administration, immediately. The government has no right to check in his activities. Because he knows he is a brāhmaṇa. Four person, four or five, they are excused from the jurisdiction of law. The first is brāhmaṇa, the second is cow, the third is woman, and the fourth is old man, and fifth is the child. These five persons are not in the jurisdiction of law. No.
Prabhupāda: Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are demons, those who are disturbing elements, they should be killed. And those who are honest and peaceful, they should be maintained. But because it is material world, the world of duality, there are good and evil, so you have to curb down the evil. Sometimes force is required. So that killing is not bad. When the enemy is aggressive and you are killing, that killing and poor animal who is supplying milk... You are drinking milk, your mother, and you are killing. This killing and that killing is not the same thing. According to Vedic civilization the cow is to be given special protection. Why it is recommended for the cow? It does not say of other animal. When animal killing is required according to Vedic civilization, those who are meat-eaters, they are allowed to kill some insignificant animal like deer, goat, pigs. It is for the animal eaters, not for all. But if one is bent upon... And there are persons, they want meat-eating. So for them these unimportant animals are recommended. But cow is very important animal. You get from its milk so many nutritious food. So apart from religious sentiment, from economic point of view, cow-killing is not good. And from moral point of view it is not good because you drink cow's milk, so cow is your mother.
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers.
- ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī
- brahmaṇī rāja-patnikā
- dhenur dhatrī tathā pṛthvī
- sapta eta mataraḥ smṛtaḥ
Ādau-mātā, real mother, and guru-patnī, the wife of guru or teacher, she is also mother 'cause teacher is father. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. She is mother. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhm..., rāja-patnikā, the queen, the wife of the king. She is mother. And then cow is mother because you are drinking her milk. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi rāja-patnikā, dhenur dhatrī, nurse. Nurse is also mother because you suck the breast of the nurse. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers. So you cannot kill your mother. That is not very good philosophy. And who can deny, "The cow is not mother"? Who has got this audacity? You are drinking milk in the very morning. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill?—wholesale killing stop." And the Vedic literature is little liberal. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill," but, "You shall not kill at least cow." But the wholesale stop is not possible. The Vedic wisdom knows that. But you shall not kill at least cow. That is civilization. And the Christians are maintaining thousands of slaughterhouse. Is that very good proposal?
Prabhupāda: In India, according to Vedic civilization, the marriage is done after seeing the family tradition very scrutinizingly. So here it is advised that duṣkulād api, "In a abominable family, if there is nice girl, educated, beautiful, accept her. Accept her." Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnam. Ratnam means jewel. Wife, she is like jewel although born of a low family, accept. So anything very good, even it is available from a place which is not desirable, one should accept it. So if you are actually seeking after God, so here is God available from Vedic literature. Why don't you take it? Why you should refuse it? That is not very good sign.
Dr. Judah: No, that is true.
Jayatīrtha: Sometimes people complain that we don't give our children any right of free choice, that we train them in our own way.
Prabhupāda: This is nonsense, to give free choice to the child. This is nonsense. Child should be protected. That is intelligence. That is the wrong type of consciousness. According to Vedic civilization, a child, a woman, a brāhmaṇa, a cow, and an old man they should be given protection, not freedom, but protection.
Woman reporter: Do you think Mrs. Gandhi's leadership has not been successful?
Prabhupāda: Well, there is already trouble. There are many big, big men, they do not agree with her and she has taken emergency steps. So on the whole, the country is in trouble.
Woman reporter: What about Mrs. Meir, president of Israel?
Prabhupāda: I do not say of any particular woman, but according to Vedic civilization, we have never seen in the history that woman has become a leader.
Woman reporter: Women have been leaders.
Prabhupāda: They were not selected. The leader—formerly it was monarchy—the monarchs were selected by the advisory board of the first-class men. So they never selected any woman to become the leader of the society.
Woman reporter: What about women who are elected by the people?
Prabhupāda: Well, people election... Just like you elected Nixon and then you wanted him to come down. So this kind of election has no value. Sometimes you elect and sometimes you pull down. So what is the value of this election?
Woman reporter: So a leader should not be elected.
Prabhupāda: Elected, but not by this general public. They have no intelligence. They sometimes elect a wrong man, and again they try to drag him down. So what is the use of such election? Because that election is not sober, not mature. If the election was mature and sober, then there was no need of dragging him down again.
Harikeśa: Argentina, and India. Now there will be war. Wherever there is woman in charge, there is war, disruption. But they think because they are in charge, that proves they are equal.
Prabhupāda: I think in Indian history she is the first woman to be in charge of the state. Before her, there is no instance of woman becoming in charge.
Brahmānanda: In Śrī Lanka also, they have woman in charge. That is also considered Indian.
Prabhupāda: According to Manu-saṁhitā, which is Vedic laws, it is said that "Woman is not to be given freedom." They have to be protected. According to Vedic civilization, women, children, old man, brāhmaṇa, and cow—they are to be given protection. The state should give protection. (break) ...the defect of modern civilization is that vox populi.
Nitāi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Everything is passed by popular vote. But that is also defective.
Ṛṣi-kumāra: What about those who are just possessing enough to maintain their bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is maintained by the birds and beasts. The worms, ants, they also maintaining body, but they do not possess anything. So therefore, natural law is that without possessing, you can maintain yourself.
Ṛṣi-kumāra: You have to possess some food and some shelter.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The food is supplied. Who is supplying food? If there is a hole in your room and so many thousands of ants are coming out, who is supplying food? Are you supplying that "Here is a hole. There are ants. They must be given some food"? Of course, that is your duty according to Vedic civilization. But who is doing that? But he is quite healthy. There are so many fishes in the water, many millions. Who is giving food them? There are many elephants in African jungles. They eat at a time forty kilos. So who is supplying food? This is not the problem. If the bird, beast, animals, fishes, aquatics and cats, dogs, everyone, can get food, what you have done that you will not get your food? You are human being. This is the right conclusion, that "If food is supplied to the elephants and to the ant by some superior arrangement, what I have done that I will not get my food?"
Prabhupāda: So democracy is not very much beneficial anywhere and everywhere. In your country also, you voted Mr. Nixon, democracy, but you were not satisfied with him. That means democracy, ordinary men they select somebody and again they try to bring him down. Why? When he was selected, it means it was a mistake. So according to Vedic civilization, there was no such thing as democracy. It was monarchy, but the monarchy means the king was very highly spiritually advanced. The king was called rājarṣi, means king, at the same time, saintly person. We have got another example in our country-Gandhi. When he was political leader, he was practically dictator, but because he was a man of very high moral character, people took him, accepted him as the dictator. So dictatorship is good, provided the dictator is highly qualified spiritually. That is the Vedic verdict.
Prabhupāda: ...is generated from dog originally.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The disease?
Prabhupāda: Syphilis. In Ayur-Vedic it is called phairanga, means this disease is imported from Western countries. Every dog has syphilis, and they contaminate the woman, and that is distributed to man. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. Now in India also, to keep a dog is aristocracy. Yes. Especially the tail cut. Now half-cut tail, that is aristocratic dog. Now they are making dog show in New Delhi.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if one abides by the law of God, then he can become happy.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: God has made that arrangement.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in Viṣṇu Purāṇa.
- varṇāśramācāra-vatā
- puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān
- viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā
- nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
- (CC Madhya 8.58)
That is said, varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, unless one comes to the regulation of varṇāśrama-dharma, that is not human civilization. That is actually the fact. That is the same dog's society. That is going on. If there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, who will give direction? There is no... If there is no kṣatriya, then who will give protection? If there is no vaiśya, then who will produce food? And if there is no śūdra, then who will work for general assistance? This is scientific.
Harikeśa: You have defeated us all again.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: We are all defeated.
Prabhupāda: You?
Harikeśa: Everyone.
Lokanātha: In Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are mentioning that prostitute is needed in the society.
Prabhupāda: Yes, for the rascals. Otherwise they will pollute the innocent girls. The innocent girls.... That is the policy of the Western civilization, that "Let the karmīs enjoy new, new girls and be energetic to produce machine." This is the European civilization, American civilization. Because the karmīs, unless they have sufficient sex intercourse, they cannot work, so this is the policy: "Let all the girls remain open." They.... "Let them use and produce atomic bomb. Show your brain." The.... Just like the marriage.... According to Vedic civilization, marriage is allowed to the karmīs. It is not that marriage allowed to the sannyāsī or brahmacārī. The karmīs require sex. Therefore.... Why marriage is allowed to the gṛhastha? Why not to the brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsī? Why it is not recommended? Because the karmīs require that enlivenment. Therefore they are allowed to marry. So in the European civilization it is only karmīs. There is no question of brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsa. There is no such idea. Therefore they want new, new girls. And that they have kept, this artificial law.
Pañca-draviḍa: Outlawing prostitution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And no prostitution. And no prostitution, what means? That means there is prostitutes in the society.
Pañca-draviḍa: Everybody's a prostitute.
Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, last night you were describing how people serve their dogs. And now, in the Western countries, they have restaurants where you can take your dog, and he sits at the table with you and they serve a meal for him. And they have catering services. You can call up, and they will bring a special meal to your dog, so he can eat at his home. They have beauty parlors for dogs, everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable.
Prabhupāda: Let us see from the ground, the grass is coming, the vegetable is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, all the ants are coming, the germs are coming. Then, after eating that vegetable, the animals are coming. In this way everything is coming, generated from the earth, from the material nature. Is it not a fact?
Reporter: Mmm!
Prabhupāda: So, we are coming from material nature. That means we are..., material nature is our mother. From the womb of mother, the child comes from. So, from the material nature everything is coming. Therefore according to Vedic knowledge, this earth is also mother. We have got seven mothers according to Vedic civilization:
- ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī
- brāhmaṇī rāja-patnikā
- dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī
- saptaitā mātaraḥ smṛtāḥ
Ātma-mātā means original mother, real mother. And guroḥ patnī, the wife of teacher. The wife of a brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means the most intellectual class of men in the human society, brāhmaṇa. It is not a caste. It is a section in every human society. Always, there is a class of men very intelli..., intelligent. They are called brāhmaṇa. So, ātma-mātā, guroḥ patnī, brāhmaṇī, rāja-patnikā, and the queen—formerly there were kings—she is also considered mother. And dhenu means cow is mother because we drink her milk. She supplies milk. That's mother. And pṛthvī, in the earth, we are coming out. Earth is mother. Really we see coming. And there may be different varieties of sons. That doesn't matter. But anything coming out the earth—the earth is mother—and that is coming out, that is son. Then where is the father? There must be father. Is it possible mother can give birth to a child without father?
Reporter: Mm?
Prabhupāda: Is it possible?
Reporter: I wouldn't think so.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Reporter: I wouldn't think so. No.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is thinking, "I am secure. I am born in a very good nation, state. My body is very strong. My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on. He is thinking, "These things will save me." This world is struggle for existence, and when there is struggle, there are some soldiers. So ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. One is thinking that "These are my soldiers. I'll own victory in the struggle for existence." But pramattaḥ tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. But he's so mad, he knows that these things will be vanquished, and still, he does not see to it. Paśyann api na paśyati. Therefore his anxiety. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is, this version, sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt: "On account of accepting nonpermanent things as permanent, therefore he's full of anxiety." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt. Then what is the remedy? The remedy is hitvātmā-ghāṭaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam: "This andha-kūpam, dark well of ignorance, one must give up." Then vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "He must go to vana." When one goes to vana, it is called vānaprastha. So after family life, according to Vedic civilization, one has to accept vānaprastha life. And when one is fully prepared, he takes sannyāsa after vānaprastha life. So vanaṁ gataḥ means one should prepare by going to the forest for the next life of renounced order of life. That is human civilization: brahmacārī, gṛhasta, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means full engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Otherwise, what is the use of going to the forest? In the forest there are many monkeys also. So that kind of life is not harim āśrayeta. He must take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari. That is oṁ tat sat. And then he'll be happy. That is Vedic civilization.
Scheverman: Training and discipline is a very important aspect of your asceticism.
Prabhupāda: But that training is wanted at the present moment.
Scheverman: Yes, I think that, I would agree that the willingness of modern...
Prabhupāda: There's no training to qualify a person to become first class. There is no training.
Kern: I'm thinking of the retarded, the Mongoloid, the encephalitis, those who are born with...
Prabhupāda: Nobody's born intelligent; that is not possible.
Kern: No, I understand. You see, it mentions in there that.... I was thinking what message do you have for the parents of a child...
Prabhupāda: How to train them first class.
Kern: No, this is a retarded...
Scheverman: A child that is born handicapped, intellectually handicapped.
Kern: Cannot walk nor talk.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is another.... That is exceptional. Generally, anyone is born, according to Vedic civilization, everyone is born fourth class. When he takes his birth, it is to be accepted he's a fourth class. Now by training, you can make him first class, second class, third class. By birth, everyone is fourth class.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes, everyone should retire and join us.
Devotees: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: At least those who are above fifty years old. That is Vedic civilization. Pañcasordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. One who is over fifty years of age, vanaṁ vrajet. So vanaṁ vrajet means completely retired from family responsibilities and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is compulsory according to Vedic civilization.
Dr. Sharma: I'd like to discuss two more: karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. If you could please kindly...
Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect.
Prabhupāda: Give protection to the cows. Kṛṣṇa mentioned specifically, go-rakṣya. He does not say that you don't kill, but you give protection to the cows. And if you want to eat meat, you can kill other animals. On the whole, paśu-hiṁsā, any animal killing, is not good for spiritual life. And so far vegetable is concerned, everyone has to eat something. So if you can eat vegetables, that does not mean because somebody is killing vegetables, he should kill his own father and mother on that plea. So cow is mother because we are drinking her milk. So you cannot put any argument in favor of killing mother. If you... Anyone who supplies milk from the body, she is mother. According to Vedic civilization, cow is one of the seven mothers.
Moustafa: When I do wrong, for example. When I do lie, when I do something, when I see wrong.
Prabhupāda: Wrong, one thing is wrong in my country, and that is right in your country. Just like animal slaughter is wrong according to our Vedic civilization. Unnecessary animal slaughter is forbidden. But in your country or in other Western countries, they kill so many animals. So what is wrong, what is right? Who will decide?
Moustafa: That's the reason I don't kill animals and I don't eat meat. For three years now.
Prabhupāda: That's very good, very good idea. When we want God, to understand, we must try to understand what is God. What do you mean by God? The God definition is given in the dictionary, what is that? "Supreme being, supreme controller." So how do you understand that supreme controller? What do you mean by supreme controller? In this way we should try to understand what is the idea carried by the word God. We have got, in our Vedic language, we have got definition of God, that
- aiśvaryasya samagrasya
- vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
- jñāna-vairāgyayaiś caiva
- ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganāḥ
- (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)
"God" means He must possess all the wealth. Just like in Persia you have got so many wealthy persons, but nobody can claim, even the Shah cannot claim, that he possesses all the wealth. That is not possible. Persia. Do you follow what I say? So this is one of the items, that God is the richest, or He possesses all the wealth. Similarly, He possesses all the strength, He possesses all the beauty, He possesses all knowledge, and He is the renouncer also, the most exalted renouncer. Although He possesses so many things, He is renounced. Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities. "Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity." He doesn't interfere. "All right, you go on." And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement. His property, He does not come to interfere. God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows. Just like you have got this body, I have got this body, but we do not know everything of this body. I do not know how many hairs are there. Is it not? So, so many things. I am eating, and it is transformed into blood, and it is directed towards brain, towards other parts of the body and we are working very strong, but we do not know how things are happening. Although I am claiming I am this body, I am my body. But God knows every particular, any... anvayād itarataḥ. How the stone is made, He knows. How this flower is colored, He knows. That is called wise, wisdom. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows. That is God. He is the possessor of all wealth, all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all influence. In this way you have to understand God.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rāmeśvara: They have a list of five or six conditions, and they say if all those conditions are there, then it is a suitable atmosphere for brainwashing. And they say we are imposing those conditions on our members.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are brainwashing from bad to good. That is our business. We are washing the brain from all rascaldom. That is our business. You are... Your brain is filled up with all rubbish things: meat-eating and illicit sex, gambling. So we are washing them. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hrdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi (SB 1.2.17). Abhadrānī washing. Abhadrāṇi means bad things. The bad things should be washed off. Don't you cleanse your home? Don't you cleanse your room? Is not that brainwashing? So if you wash your room very cleansed, who blames you? But you are so rascal that "Why you are washing this garbage?" you are protesting. You are such an intelligent man. We are washing the garbage; you are protesting, "Why you are washing the garbage?" This is your intelligence. But intelligent men wash the garbage. That is the law of nature, cleanse. That we are doing. According to Vedic civilization, you are actually untouchable. Now we have come to touch you; therefore wash you must first. You are untouchable. In Indian civilization, dog is untouchable, and that is your best friend. So you are not touchable. Therefore we have to wash you. And unless your brain is washed, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. So it is necessary. Is that all right? Dog is your best friend. In India dog is untouchable. So "Man is known by his company." If your best friend is dog, then what you are? We can understand your position because you sleep with dog, you eat with dog, your best friend is dog, so what you are? You must be washed. It is a fact. Every woman, every man, has some dog.
Jagadīśa: Dog or cat.
Prabhupāda: Mostly dog.
Prabhupāda: So "Man is known by his company." Your constant company is dog, so what you are? These are the way. Actually, according to Vedic... Why they do not allow Europeans in the Jagannātha temple? Because they are untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, Europeans are untouchable. Muslims and..., untouchable. Not only foreigners, even in their own country, those who are not very cleansed, they are untouchable. Another's eatable things, they're untouchable. Just like hog. If you give him halavā, he will not take it. He will eat stool. Therefore hog is so abominable. Similarly, in your country there are so many nice foodstuffs. Milk is so abundant. You do not know how to utilize milk. You are cutting the poor animal and the rotten flesh you are...
Rāmeśvara: Of course, nowadays that is an accident, not planned. If you ask a father, "Why you have made your son?" he will say, "By mistake. I did not want him. I was simply wanting sex."
Prabhupāda: But God cannot make mistake. Then He becomes imper... He cannot be good. And not all fathers... According to Vedic civilization, the father creates the son purposefully with some ceremony, garbhādāna ceremony. It is not secret job. Putrethi kriyate bharyā: "One is married to create a good son." That is the purpose. And Bhagavad-gītā says, dharmāviruddha. "Aviruddha, which is not against religion, that kind of lust I am." So how it can be accident? If there is garbhādāna ceremony and son is essential, then how it can be accident?
Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is knowledges based on some simple speculation.
Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.
Dr. Sharma: He says that the giraffe has got a very lengthy neck because there was no grass on the floor. He had to reach the branches and bows of a tree for the leaves. So he got a lengthy neck.
Prabhupāda: So who made this arrangement?
Dr. Sharma: It was written by Darwin.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right, but next question will be, "Who made his neck so long? Why not your neck?"
Dr. Sharma: Then Darwin forgot there are millions of other herbivores living on the planet.
Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense.
Dr. Sharma: They did not develop a big neck. Only giraffe developed, because Darwin wanted.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore he's a nonsense.
Prabhupāda: When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us. There must be systematic social order: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, cātur-varṇyam, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa is not voluntary, but it is compulsory. At the last stage one must take sannyāsa. After fiftieth year one must take to vānaprastha, vanaṁ vrajet. This is system. So... System of purification, how to become designationless. And if we keep the designation, then, śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) "One who keeps the bodily designation, he's no better than the cows and the asses, animal."
Prabhupāda: Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies. They are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like, inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life.
| Page Title: | According to Vedic civilization... (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Vraja-kumara |
| Created: | 09 of Jul, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=44, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 44 |