Prabhupāda: They are living entities who have amassed volumes and volumes of pious activities." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many lives Just like bank balance increases, similarly, one who has increased the balance of pious activities for many, many thousands of lives, oh, such persons are now playing with Kṛṣṇa. They have taken the body of His cowherds boy, transcendental spiritual body, and just they are playing with Kṛṣṇa. And who is Kṛṣṇa?" Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya: "The great saints and sages who are trying to understand the Supreme Brahman, here is Kṛṣṇa. That Supreme Brahman is here, playing." Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhanubhutya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena: "The impersonalist Brahman is... Because Kṛṣṇa's effulgence is impersonal Brahman, so here is He." And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ: "Those who are devotees, those who have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the master, for them here is Kṛṣṇa." And māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa: "And those who are materialistic—they simply think Kṛṣṇa is ordinary boy or man—He is also there. But who are these boys? They are playing with the same person who is Brahman, who is Bhagavān, or who is ordinary man, according to different calculation. But these boys who are playing with Him, they have accumulated many, many lives' heaps of pious activities." They are not ordinary men.
Accept Krsna (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"accept Krishna"
|"accept Krsna"
|"accepted Krishna"
|"accepted Krsna"
|"accepting Krishna"
|"accepting Krsna"
|"accepts Krishna"
|"accepts Krsna"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: I mean, just is Kṛṣṇa consciousness more readily accepted by the Far Eastern peoples? That is does their way of life make the acceptance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness any more easy than here in America? For instance, Americans are constantly rushing around and Europeans somewhat less. But they find it more difficult to be tranquil and peaceful than the Eastern peoples. For this reason, might it not be harder for Western peoples to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture.
Interviewer: How does one feel called toward Kṛṣṇa conscious? That is, does he begin by having faith or does...? What demands are made upon him? How does he come into the frame of mind where he can accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Of course, faith is the basic principle of everything. If you have no faith, then you cannot make progress in any line of action. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also... Faith is the basic principle. Just like I have come here. I started my classes in New York. So I was alone chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody came. Naturally, out of inquisitiveness, somebody comes. Somebody came and, "Oh, what this Indian swami is doing? Let me see." So he sat down. Some other came. He sat down. Then some of them took it, "Oh, Swamiji speaks very nice. Let me come again." He comes, he comes, and then he gets some faith: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice." Then next point is that he wants intimate relationship with the swami, or me: "Swamiji, I have heard you so many days. I think it is very nice. So I want to be your student." So faith is the basic principle. The next stage is that he wants to become a student. And as soon as he wants to become a student, the next stage is that I accept him a disciple if I think that he is suitable.
Prabhupāda: I don't say that "You Christian, you become Hindu or you come to me." I simply say "You obey these commandments." That is my order. I make you better Christian. That is my mission. I don't say that "God is not there, God is here," but I simply say that "You obey God." That is my mission. I don't say that you have to come to this platform and accept Kṛṣṇa as God and no other. No. I don't say. I say, "Please obey God. Please try to love God." That is my mission. And I give the way how to love God very easily. How to love, provided you agree.
Journalist: Well, see, again we get back to this...
Prabhupāda: So practically you follow that I have no difference.
Journalist: Yes, I understand. I appreciate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You believe in God, I believe in God. I simply say "You try to love God."
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Allen Ginsberg: But what I'm wondering is how far beyond exclusive centers, how far beyond that can it go in the United States? How far beyond a special study cult centers can a Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any religious movement grow? 'Cause the need is for a large single unifying religious movement in America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So here is Kṛṣṇa. All-attractive. You now find out... You can say, "Why I shall accept Kṛṣṇa?" You can say like that. Your first question is the unifying agent. I say here is Kṛṣṇa. Now we can analyze, "Why you shall accept Kṛṣṇa?" Then I shall reply, "Why you shall not?" What do you want, expect from the Supreme or the unifying, what do you expect? Everything is there in Kṛṣṇa. Opulence-Kṛṣṇa. Beauty-Kṛṣṇa. Wisdom-Kṛṣṇa. Renunciation-Kṛṣṇa. Strength-Kṛṣṇa. Everything in Kṛṣṇa. Whatever you want you'll find in Kṛṣṇa. That is the unifying center. That I will convince you. He is the unifying center actually. And Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ partha sarvaśaḥ. "Everyone is trying to come to Me. Everyone is trying to come to Me." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). "But he's realizing Me in My different phases. But everyone is trying." So so far unifying religion is concerned there are three groups: impersonalists, personalists, and localized. Some are trying to understand the Absolute Truth in impersonal way.
Prabhupāda: Try to understand this, that regarding authority, you say that how to find out the authority. To answer this question, Kṛṣṇa is authority. There is no doubt. Because if Kṛṣṇa is an authority, Maharsi takes also Kṛṣṇa's book and Aurobindo takes Kṛṣṇa's book, Vivekananda takes Kṛṣṇa's book, Dr. Radhakrishnan takes Kṛṣṇa's book. So Kṛṣṇa is authority. Śaṅkarācārya also takes Kṛṣṇa's book. You know Śaṅkarācārya's commentary on Kṛṣṇa? And in that commentary he accepts, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇaḥ: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." He accepts. You say that Maharsi accepts Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Just see that Kṛṣṇa is the authority. He's accepted by everyone. You say Maharsi belongs to the Śaṅkara sampradāya. Śaṅkarācārya accepts Kṛṣṇa. Not as authority... He says, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." He says this very word in his commentary.
Gurudāsa: Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam.
Prabhupāda: So authority means one who has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. Then he is authority.
Yoko Ono: Now, who said that?
Prabhupāda: Everyone says. All authorities. Śaṅkarācārya says. Rāmānujācārya says. Those who are really authorities, those disciplic succession is going on. In India, there are five sects. Actually two sects. Vaiṣṇava and Śaṅkara. So the Vaiṣṇava accept Kṛṣṇa as the authority, and Śaṅkara accepted Kṛṣṇa authority. There are no third sect. Practically, actually, there is one sect, the Vaiṣṇava. Anyway, later on, later ages, Śaṅkarācārya established his sect. But Śaṅkarācārya accepts that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," in his writing. And at his last stage of his life he said, "You rascal fools, what you are dealing with? That will not save you." Bhaja govindam: "You just worship Kṛṣṇa." Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mūḍha-mate. Mūḍha-mate means "You rascal." (laughter)
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) ...(Hindi) We haven't got to present Kṛṣṇa as Indian or Hindu. Kṛṣṇa is neither of them. Kṛṣṇa says, claims, that "Every living entity is My part and parcel. I am the seed-giving father." So therefore it has become successful. I never said that "You become a Hindu." "You accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and try to understand the philosophy." What business they have got to become Hindu? But they want to know what is God. Oh, that we have been confident.
Guest (9): They are accepting God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Even if they are puzzled. Although Kṛṣṇa appeared in India.
Guest (9): We don't think that He belongs to particular place or...
Prabhupāda: That's... They do not understand Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Why step by step? If you have to accept Kṛṣṇa, why not immediately? That is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: I have seen in Ahmedabad his temple. He established one deity, a woman shape, and there is no Kṛṣṇa. "Gītā." "Gītā" means a woman. So I don't think he has full understanding of Gītā. He has money; he has spent. That's all. But he does not understand Gītā. Gītā means unless one takes Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead he does not understand anything of Gītā. That is the test. He may advertise himself as scholar or this or that, but our only test is whether he accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is the test. Is that person accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He himself accepts that "I am God." Is it not? Therefore he's a foolish. He is squandering money, public money. That's all. That is his business. He might have some qualification to collect money, but he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: I know. So that is the test. That is the test. Therefore it is a revolutionary movement. Even so-called followers of Gītā, they will be caught up by this movement as rascals. Because the real purpose of Gītā they do not know. Real purpose of Gītā is to know Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi madhava (BG 10.14). And Arjuna says that "Whatever You have said, they're all right and I accept them in toto without any revision." So Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, what he has read Gītā? He is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply has labored. That's all. That is the test. Don't you agree to this point? So anyone who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of Gītā. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktananda, what do you think?
Muktananda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): We must understand what is higher person and what is lower and whether Buddha is correct or not.
Prabhupāda: Now, higher authority... Suppose we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority.
Guest (1): It is accepting.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority. Do you accept that?
Guest (1): I mean, I am shown the form. You see...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of shown. Kṛṣṇa is accepted higher authority not only by us by big ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, those who are guiding our Vedic life in India, Caitanya. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the highest authority. (break) Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nāsti: "There is no more higher authority than Me." Then, if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority, that is your business, but we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority.
Prabhupāda: (knock on door) Yes, open it. Anyway, to make cut short, to make cut short, so far we are concerned, we have declared, "International Society for Krishna Consciousness." Our process of propaganda is that Kṛṣṇa is the highest authority. That is our... You may take it that we are limited; that is your business. But we have taken this. Now, if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority, then there is no question of inquiring from us.
Guest (1): What is the form, you see, I mean...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the form. Here is Kṛṣṇa's form.
Guest (1): No, no, not that form.
Prabhupāda: Then what form?
Guest (1): What I mean is we are accepting anything to bring ourselves to certain destination which will satisfy us all. For that we are...
Prabhupāda: Nothing can satisfy everyone. That is not possible. There is no such thing within this material world which can satisfy everyone. There is no such thing.
Prabhupāda: Maybe, but we do not know.
Guest (1): Therefore beyond that, you see, I came...
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. We accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme authority. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Who is accepting this? We have accepted. Some others may have accepted but you have not accepted. So therefore even Kṛṣṇa's injunction is not accepted by everyone, what to speak of others? So therefore you cannot find out within this material world anything which can satisfy everyone. That is not possible.
Guest (1): We have not found that.
Prabhupāda: You may think, but we have concluded that there is nothing, such thing, which can satisfy everyone. It is not possible.
Guest (1): Accept, I accept everyone. That is no question of accepting or...
Prabhupāda: No, no, your... I have summarized that first of all you have come to inquire from us that our standard of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the standard of perfection of knowledge, then there is possibility of our talking. Otherwise simply waste of time. Why shall we waste our time? Our standard is Kṛṣṇa. If you are agreeable to accept the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then there is possibility. Just like here is a lawyer. He goes to the lawyer. He speaks, he pleads, on the standard of the lawbooks. If somebody comes, "No, no, I don't accept this," then there is no question of argument. Both the lawyers are arguing. The central point is the lawbook. So you must have a central point on which we shall talk. If you have no central point...
Guest (1): Central point of happiness is there now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, your point is happiness; my point is happiness. That is all right. But what is that happiness? Just like the same example can be that two litigants, they have gone to the court. Their aim is justice. But how that justice can be had, that is an argument and on the point of law. Similarly, everyone's point is happiness. And what is that standard of happiness, that you have to take from some authority. That authority we accept, Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then we cannot come to the conclusion what is happiness. So you will simply waste our time. Begin ārati. (break) You see? It was... Sometimes the light was coming, sometimes... That means they were adjusting. There was some meeting, adjusting. As soon as it is coming to the real point it was light. And as soon as not in the real point there is no light. So it is a science. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānam It is a vijñāna. It is not a theoretical, whimsical...
Guest (1): It is to be felt.
Guest (3): It will always be there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is already there but when you see, you see, you see that it is birth. The sunrise is already somewhere, and the sunset is also already somewhere but in your angle of vision there is no sun. That is going on. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's birth, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's existence, every moment. You have to learn that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9), transcendental. Yo janati tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows it perfectly, in truth, he becomes liberated. If you have known Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. But Kṛṣṇa knowing is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth. Then how one can understand? That is also stated: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Not by speculation of knowledge. Bhaktya. And what is that bhakti? Anyābhilaṣita-śunyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlānaṁ bhaktir uttama (CC Madhya 19.167)(Brs. 1.1.11). So these things you have to learn. Then there is possibility of knowledge, tad-vijñāna. The difficulty is at the present moment the theory that everyone can invent his way of understanding God. He can speculate. Therefore there is chaos. There is chaos. If you want to save yourself from this chaotic condition of life you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. Give me that knife. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not so many. Begin. Aiye. (break) ...friend of Kṛṣṇa. How much exalted he is, a great warrior, and he has the right to talk with Kṛṣṇa on equal level. Still, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master. And he said, "The confusion which I have created, it is not possible for me to clear it. It is You only who can clear, I know. Therefore I accept You as spiritual master." Therefore it is required that one should know who can clear your confusion, and there you must surrender. (aside:) Anyone? Everyone. Come on. Not in the left hand. Don't give anything by left hand; don't take anything. That is a etiquette. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: What can I say? Then only when sādhus are attacked, then only...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. You quoted from Bhagavad-gītā; I am replying from Bhagavad-gītā. You quoted from Bhagavad-gītā, so your answer should be given from the Bhagavad-gītā. You told me that Kṛṣṇa or God comes when there is such and such adharma, so what is adharma, what is dharma, who is sādhu—these things should be understood. But generally, this movement is to create sādhus. So you have to give time. You have to cooperate. This incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and nāma, Kṛṣṇa's name, is the same. Abhinnatvaṁ nāma-naminoḥ: "There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa." So you encourage this movement. You will see that there will be no more fighting. Kṛṣṇa has come. Welcome Kṛṣṇa. But if you noncooperate with Kṛṣṇa, then how you'll get happiness? Kṛṣṇa has already come by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You receive Him. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). You are all respectable gentlemen. You accept it. Then others will follow. Tat tad evetaro janaḥ. And if leading personalities of the society, they reject it, then how Kṛṣṇa is welcome? How can you expect? (Hindi) Everyone should welcome this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Then actually there will be dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Everything will be done. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was personally present, how many received Him? Only the Pāṇḍavas and the gopīs and the Vṛndāvana-līlā is there. Nobody knew Him as Kṛṣṇa. In the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, how many knew Him that He was Kṛṣṇa? But everyone benefited. Everyone benefited. Everyone who died in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, they got salvation. That is stated in Bhīṣma's teachings. So they got the benefit, but not that everyone understood Kṛṣṇa. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum... (BG 9.11). Many... Even nowadays there are so many scholars... They want swamis. They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Even nowadays, what to speak of then? Even at the present moment.
Prabhupāda: I can help everyone provided he takes my help. If you refuse my help, how can I help you?
Journalist (1): No, I'm merely suggesting that you would...
Prabhupāda: Yes, What is our...? I am helping. I am asking people to become God conscious. But if you refuse to become God conscious how can I help you?
Journalist (1): But to become God conscious do you think they have to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, you become devotee of God. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then... You have got some idea of God? Or not?
Journalist (1): You could accept the idea of God in another manner than your church?
Prabhupāda: Suppose... We are giving Kṛṣṇa, presenting Kṛṣṇa, as God, and we are giving God's name, address, place, everything. Yes. (laughter) Don't laugh. It is serious. If you refuse to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then you present your God. Give me His the address, name and occupation. Can you give me?
Journalist (1): No.
Dr. Weir: In other words, Kṛṣṇa is the voice of your God then.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God, (indistinct). That is accepted. We accept Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara. Īśvara means the controller. Just like here there are controllers. But here any controller is controlled by another controller. But param īśvara, God means Who has no other controller. He's the supreme controller. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. Here any controller, he's controlling, just like this physician. He has learned his medical science from another physician, another physician, another physician. So we are not the supreme physician or supreme controller.
Prabhupāda: The significance..., there is no significance. These professional Bhāgavata readers, they make money from the public because public wants to hear all these things. Just like we read a novel-a woman is embracing a man, or kissing or having sex. They like it. Therefore they go the Bhāgavata Tenth Canto immediately. Their Bhāgavata reading is professional, not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then go step by step, one by one. First of all read Bhagavad-gītā, try to understand, and you surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, then you enter. Just like after passing entrance examination you enter into the college. Similarly, when you are qualified in accepting Kṛṣṇa as all in all, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66), then you enter into Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study, not ordinary study. But these professionals, they take advantage of the weakness of the people, and they make profession and earn some money. That's all. When we speak of Bhāgavata we speak from First Canto, Second Canto, Third Canto..., the nine cantos to understand Kṛṣṇa. Just like in First Canto the beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, janmādy asya yataḥ. This is Vedānta-sūtra verse. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa for perfect knowledge, then you'll understand what is kṛṣṇa-līlā. (end)
Prabhupāda: You cannot eat anything accept Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Even if we eat vegetables, that is also sin. Bhagavad-gītā clearly says, bhuñjate te tv agham pāpā, ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). If you prepare very nice pure foodstuff for eating yourself, then still you are eating sins. You have to prepare anything very nicely, offer it to Kṛṣṇa, then you take, then you will be free from all sin. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo. Even there is sin... Sin there must be. Just like you are cooking, you are taking water from the jug, there are so many germs you are killing. The killing responsibility is there. In the higher sense, "Thou shalt not kill", means you have to take the prasādam of Kṛṣṇa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: Does a devotee lose some of his individuality in that...
Prabhupāda: No, he has got full individuality, but he sacrifices individuality for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So he voluntarily surrenders. Not that he has lost his individuality. He keeps his individuality fully. But because Kṛṣṇa desires that he should surrender, he never minds. He's individual. Just like Arjuna, in the beginning he was declining to fight on account of his individuality. But when he accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master, he became śiṣya. Then whatever He ordered, "Yes." That doesn't mean he lost his individuality. He voluntarily accepted, "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do it." Just as all my disciples, they have not lost their individuality, but they have surrendered their individuality. That is required. Just like if a man does not use sex, does that mean he has become impotent? If he likes he can have, thousand times sex life, but he has voluntarily avoided it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Sometimes we fast, that does mean we are diseased. We voluntarily fast. It does not mean that I am not hungry, I cannot eat. But we voluntarily fast.
Prabhupāda: Those who accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Devotee: He preached among the devotees.
Prabhupāda: His preaching begins from surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Kṛṣṇa upadeśa is that Kṛṣṇa's asking everyone to surrender unto Him. So one who has surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa, he can understand Lord Caitanya's teaching. Jīvera svarūpa haya nityera kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). He begins His teachings from the point when one accepts that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa."
Martin: This chanting process is directed to everyone, or just those who...
Prabhupāda: No, everyone. By chanting he'll come to this point. When his heart will be cleansed, then he will come to this point to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We initiate a person, not that he is already on that standard, but we are educating him by the process, how to come to that standard.
Frenchman: In society, the consumer society, (indistinct) miseries, what is the message you can bring people even in this day?
Prabhupāda: Yes. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they will be moralists, they will be religionists, they will be first-class (indistinct), first-class politician, everything perfect by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Frenchman: We have heard from not such a great master who has (indistinct) ...highest spiritual principles, (indistinct) ...like socialism and spiritual communism, he'd like to know exactly what this means.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual communism means that these so-called communists they are concerned with the limited thing. Just like the communists in Russia or China, they are thinking of their country main only. They are not thinking of others. Or they're thinking only they human beings, not of the animals. But our spiritual comm... Communist means that we take care, not only of the human being, but of the animals also. We don't think that the human being is only our own community. We think every living is within the community, center being God. Just like spiritual our communism means... Just like I'm living in this house. I shall have to take care even for one lizard, that is also living entity.
Prabhupāda: That has spoiled our Indian culture. That has spoiled our Indian culture. Everyone become learned man; everyone become a spiritualist. That's another... So best thing is to... Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as the most learned man? That will save you. Everyone accepts Him, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Lord Caitanya. So why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa? Why you're searching after learned man? Here is the best learned man. Simple truth. If you simply argue, that is a different thing. But if you want really learned man, Kṛṣṇa is here. Take Kṛṣṇa as He is; then you learn everything. So I shall go now. What is the time?
Satsvarūpa: It's eight-thirty now.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...fruits... Just accept Kṛṣṇa, the most learned man. Follow His teaching. Your life is perfect. And practically you see. They have accepted Kṛṣṇa the supreme teacher, and how their life is becoming perfect. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Unless one is very, very intelligent he cannot come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. As Kṛṣṇa is very cunning, intelligent, so His devotee is also very cunning and intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births' struggling, when he actually becomes wise, jñānavān," māṁ prapadyate, "he surrenders to Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "That mahātmā is very rare to be found." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. This is description of mahātmā.
Prabhupāda: They have very good respect. So that.... (break)
Ambassador: ...have much, they don't believe in God.
Prabhupāda: They do not know the (indistinct).
Mrs. Keating: Do you have many Indian followers? Many Indian followers as well as foreign?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so far Indians are concerned, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Mrs. Keating: May I ask the significance of the markings?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a sign that we are Vaiṣṇava, devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Ambassador: You all have that.
Mrs. Keating: And the bag, is that, is that...
Prabhupāda: That is our chanting.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "Anyone who explains this devotional service, as explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, is guaranteed to come back to Me." That means the preacher of this Bhagavad-gītā is guaranteed to go back to home, back to Godhead. What is the purport?
Devotee: Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for the devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Devotee: Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ, bhavitā na ca me tasmād anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi (BG 18.69). "There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he. Nor will there ever be one more dear."
Prabhupāda: Those who are preachers.
Scholar: Well I think it's the...
Prabhupāda: No. No. No. You cannot... First of all you have to understand what is spiritual value of life. Then you can harmonize. If you do not know what is spiritual life, then what you can harmonize? That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning, when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, then He began to explain about the value of life. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13), find out this verse. It's in the Second Chapter. Which verse?
Devotee: Two, thirteen.
Prabhupāda: Second Chapter, thirteenth verse. Find out. Read it.
Scholar: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tattva na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Brahmānanda: They think our brain is increasing, but actually we see it decreasing. Because we cannot duplicate that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only duplicate. You cannot even understand properly. Do you... To understand the Vedic philosophy, you have to tax your brain. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted as a great book of philosophy all over the world. And... Now wherefrom this brain came out. Apart from accepting Kṛṣṇa as God, take it, the language, take the language, the philosophy, the thoughts. How great they are. Now how can you say that people had no higher brain. Within hundred years everything has grown up. All these rascals. What is the Darwin's age?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Darwin says the, he says in his history of the origin, he cannot trace completely.
Prabhupāda: Whatever he has traced, what is the history of that tracing history? Tracing age?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he started that life started from very primitive, different primitive forms...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. What is the time of Darwin. Which year he was a professor?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The theory started in 1859, about...
Prabhupāda: 1859. So hundred years ago. So all the brains developed within hundred years. All these rascals came out within hundred years. And before that, there was no other rascal. Just see the fun. All the scientific improvement, anthropology, everything came within hundred or two hundred years.
Prabhupāda: It is right, but when we speak that the ultimate shelter is Kṛṣṇa, that they will deny. Therefore they're wrong. Just like you are coming this side. If I say: "Come to here," they'll say: "Why shall I go to there?" That is their fault. We are requesting everyone that: "Accept Kṛṣṇa in the center. All your research work will be successful." That they'll not. (pause) Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). They'll not accept one thing, God. That is their business. (pause) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause) Jellyfish is also eaten by man?
Karandhara: Jellyfish? No, I don't think so. (pause)
Prabhupāda: They are meant for the birds?
Karandhara: Fishes, other fish eat them.
Prabhupāda: Oh, fish also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we publish that the original source is life, then everybody has to accept it that the... Everybody has to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our program. As soon as they agree, "Yes, life is...," then they have to accept Kṛṣṇa automatically. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). (break) Some of them are thinking that this is a saṅkīrtana party. We are saṅkīrtana party, undoubtedly. But they may not think "They are sentimentalists." They must know that we are scientists. Everywhere is the direction. These high waves, this big Pacific Ocean, they are also carrying out the direction of that Supreme life. Just like this airplane is floating. Is it floating without any direction?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is direction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept.
Prabhupāda: A child is innocent, and his father is ignorant. His father may be knowing something, and purposely does not take. That is ignorance. Or he thinks that "What is the use of taking it?" That is ignorance. And innocent, he does not know anything. Actually, practically, there is little difference, but if you ask, you can differentiate in this way. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This mūḍha is ignorant, and he does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord? I am also." This is offense. This is offense. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. This offense is created on account of sinful life. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Innocent has no sinful life. Otherwise there is no difference between ignorant and innocent. Purposefully, when one remains ignorant, foolish, purposefully... He'll not accept. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. According to Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But there are many purposefully who will not accept Him. What can be done? They will argue. They will not accept the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. They are the leaders of Vedic culture at the pre..., in the present moment.
Guest (7): Purposeful, knowing that, knowingly that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord and Supreme Authority, even then, if they ignore it...
Prabhupāda: No. Knowingly means that every Indian knows that Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At least... The every Indian, at least Hindus, they perform Janmāṣṭamī, accepting Kṛṣṇa. But still, they will not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality. They'll bring many other competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be...? I have got Durgā. I have got this, Śiva. I have got that. I have got that. I have got that." This is going on as Hinduism. So many gods. So many gods. Although the Vedic literature says, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). In Bhagavad-gītā... Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā it says, Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "Everything is emanation from Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). These things are there, but they'll not accept. Therefore they are offenders. Otherwise where is the difficulty? God is one. That is accepted. Eko brahma. God cannot be two. God is one.
Prabhupāda: Then if there is question of "Why?" then you do not come to us. You can ask somebody else. Because Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the yogis, all the saintly persons, therefore... There is no question of "Why?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the decision of the Vedic literature. All the ācāryas. We have to follow, mahājano yena gataḥ, big personalities. Now in India, the big personalities in the modern age, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya, all of them accept kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Formerly, five thousand years ago, Vyāsadeva, before that, Nārada—everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is no question about Kṛṣṇa's being the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Why? Because these people accept, the śāstra says, the Vedas says, therefore He is the Supreme Personality.
Prabhupāda: Huh, that's right. (laughter) But you do not see. You do not see. So you have to believe the authority. Then you can see. Your father existed before your birth. So you have to ask from mother, "Who is my father?" And if she says, "This gentleman is your father," then it is all right. It is easy. Otherwise, if you makes research, "Who is my father?" go on searching for life; you'll never find your father.
Revatīnandana: So to come to your point, as he was pointing out, in the past, back hundreds of years, thousands of years, all the great authorities of spiritual knowledge and yoga have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Personality of Godhead. And these ancient Vedas, they confirm it clearly in many, many places. Now, if someone comes and he says something else than Kṛṣṇa is God, "I am God" or "This light is God..."
Prabhupāda: You find out this verse
Revatīnandana: Then its different, you see. That's why not Guru Maharajaji.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam (BG 10.12), in the Tenth Chapter.
Pradyumna: 10.10?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Immediately he understands Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye: (BG 10.14) "Whatever You have spoken, I accept it," Then there is no difficulty. And You are accepted by Devala, Nārada, Vyāsa, and You are speaking Yourself, and later on, all the ācāryas have accepted. Then I'll follow: mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). I'll have to follow great personalities. The same reason mother says, this gentleman is my father. That's all. Finish business. Where is the necessity of making research? All authorities accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You accept it; then your searching after God is finished. Why should you waste your time?
Student (1): Say we say that Kṛṣṇa is God. Right?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah, that's a very important advantage, you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that is another thing. Our philosophy is: God is the most perfect. Otherwise He cannot be God. So you follow God; then you become perfect. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching personally. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. And if we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then we become perfect. Where is the difficulty? Simple thing.
Buddhist Monk (1): What we say is...
Prabhupāda: If you think that Kṛṣṇa's not perfect, somebody is perfect, then you follow him.
Buddhist Monk (1): What we believe is that incomparable bliss and peace everlasting is the most perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is... These are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is... These are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect. So that peace, you have given a definition of peace. Kṛṣṇa is giving definition of peace:
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
"I am the proprietor of all the lokas," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "I am the friend of everyone." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām. "And I am the enjoyer of all fruitive activities." Jñātvā mām. "When one knows Me like that, he gets śānti." This is the śānti formula given by Kṛṣṇa. One has to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Enjoyer. Because He's the proprietor of everything; therefore He should be enjoyer. And because everything belongs to Him—we also belong to Him—so suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, He's friend of everyone. So these three things, if you understand-Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme enjoyer. He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend of everyone—then you get śānti. If we understand these three things only, then there is śānti. Otherwise there is no possibility of śānti. Now, how it is fact, that is a subject matter of discussion. Say, Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And now you study this fact. Who is the proprietor? We are claiming proprietor, nation.
Prabhupāda: But there is no disappointment. Kṛṣṇa says,
- māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
- ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
- striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
- te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
- (BG 9.32)
So even one is śūdra, we can give him deliverance by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is our perfection. It doesn't matter he has become a śūdra. But Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ, even if you are lower than the śūdra, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, then he also attains the perfection, goes back to home, back to Godhead. So there is no cause of disappointment because everyone has become śūdra. There is remedy also.
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya. They all accept Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). They accept it. So how can you defy all these ācāryas and you become better than them? That is nonsense.
Reporter: But all these ācāryas interpret in different, different ways.
Prabhupāda: No. No.
Reporter: No?
Prabhupāda: On the principle, they never... Just like Śaṅkarācārya and Rāmānujācārya. He's impersonalist, personalist, but both of them accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You'll find from their notes, comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya, although he is impersonalist, he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: Nārāyaṇa is beyond this cosmic manifestation; He's transcendental. That means he says He's person. Nārāyaṇa, as soon as Nārāyaṇa, the Personality of Godhead. So we have nothing to touch in the spiritual understanding. He's talking of the material understanding. His philosophy, he started the philosophy, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Prabhupāda: ...there are so many paths, that Kṛṣṇa says that "Real religion is to surrender unto Me. Therefore you give up all this pseudo-religion," sarva dharman parityajya, give it up, mam ekam saranam, "just surrender unto Me, I shall give you protection from all sinful reaction." So here is God, and He is accepted by great ācāryas. In India there were great ācāryas, religious leaders. Just like Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbarka, later Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and many others. They accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is God, His name, His address, His activities, everything is there. If you accept, then you will benefit.
Woman: Do you think that the, the poor Indians who are suffering because of this terrible drought in India..., is it in India?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What do you think?
Professor: That's... Of course, in the introduction to Śaṅkara's commentary to Bhagavad-gītā, he does, it seems, if it is for him, which is that...
Prabhupāda: He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Professor: Yes, Kṛṣṇa, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor: So Śaṅkara is a bit difficult because his followers, even he's Māyāvādī, the followers, even the followers, they clearly believe in it. But whether, what Śaṅkara himself meant by it...
Prabhupāda: No, that is explained. Śaṅkara is the incarnation of Lord Śiva. He has no fault. He has simply executed the order of the Supreme Lord. But the way in which he has presented the commentary, one should not hear it. That is his warning. Here is the Tenth Canto of Bhāgavatam, two volumes.
Prabhupāda: Now, I, when we were talking, I asked him one question, that "Professor Kotofsky, you are communist, I am Kṛṣṇite. So where is the difference of philosophy? Because you have to accept one authority, leader. So you have accepted Lenin as leader; we have accepted Kṛṣṇa as leader. So where is the difference on the principle?" So he could not answer. But he very much appreciated this, that "Where is the difference between these two principles." But now we have to consider whether the leadership of Lenin is good, or the leadership of Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But you have to accept one leader. You cannot do without leader. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Government is always with you, but why you are suffering, and why one is enjoying? Government is not partial. You have created your situation to suffer. That's all. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender to Me. I will give you all protection." But you will not do. You must suffer. Suffering is there. As soon as you are disobedient to God, immediately suffering begins. That is māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Now you give up all this nonsense business. Surrender to Me. I will give you all protection." That you will not do. Then you must suffer. That is the song:
- māyār bośe jāccho bhese
- Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi
That is our preaching, that "Why you are suffering? Just accept Kṛṣṇa; you will become happy." That is our preaching. So long you are under the clutches of... (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Why should they accept Kṛṣṇa as authority over Darwin authority?
Prabhupāda: Ah? Because He's accepted by...
Yaśomatīnandana: Great sages.
Prabhupāda: ...great sages, saintly persons, scholars...
Devotee (2): By many scientists.
Prabhupāda: Then fool's paradise it is called... It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. That is the only conclusion.
Karandhara: That's what they say about us.
Prabhupāda: Because this world is all full of fools, so it is very difficult to push on. That we know. Therefore we should not go to the mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: So...
Yaśomatīnandana: A sincere atheist...
Umāpati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupāda: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Yaśomatīnandana: Believe in God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: So the honest ones become devotees?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you, if, if, if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Kṛṣṇa. That is honesty. If after convincing him, he does not take, that is dishonesty.
Umāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is dishonesty.
Umāpati: But there's a quality in this age that one does not accept defeat philosophically, philosophical defeat. If one is presented with philosophically sound arguments, it is a tendency today to refuse to accept the superiority of Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy over any other philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, crazy. This is stated:
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
"Just like when a man becomes crazy, ghostly haunted, he speaks all nonsense, similarly, anyone who is under the influence of this material energy, he's crazy." He's crazy, talks all nonsense. That's all. (break)
- māyār bośe jāccho bhese'
- Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi
This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's... "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā and you are becoming drowned and sometimes up, sometimes down? Why you are wasting your life in that way?"
- jīva kṛṣṇa dās e biśwās
- korle to' ār duḥkho nāi
"If you simply accept Kṛṣṇa as your guidance, there is no more māyā." But they'll not accept. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Therefore one who accepts and surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa after many, many births of such struggle for existence, he is actually wise. He's actually wise.
Prabhupāda: Well, mundane figure, because you have got picture of George Washington, that's... We have got picture of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You think George Washington fact because you see the picture of, that's all. So we see daily the picture, the photo, the statue.
Karandhara: Well, they may accept Kṛṣṇa as a person, but not as God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is person. Kṛṣṇa is person. God is person. That we accept. God is person. God is not person.
Bali Mardana: The demons at Kṛṣṇa's time could not even accept Him as God, what to speak of the demons now.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Therefore they say, What is the platform of objectivity in determining what's God?"
Prabhupāda: This is definition. God has show in himself, exhibited Himself. He married sixteen thousand wives. Where is that person who can marry sixteen thousand wife and expand himself in sixteen thousand bodies? Where is that person?
Karandhara: They say no such person exists.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Then your attempt is successful. (break) We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful. (break) ...uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is, because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman, we have simply said, "Kṛṣṇa Supreme." That's all. Never mind what I am. (break) ...janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is understanding
of Supreme. "After many, many births, one who is wise, he will accept Kṛṣṇa and surrender."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. (break) A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. (break) ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness. Our, that slogan is "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Kṛṣṇa is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business. You sold Bhagavad-gītā. (laughs) That is our profit. That's all.
Bahulāśva: So unless they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there is no solution.
Prabhupāda: No. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good quality in human society unless accepts Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the... This dog is thinking that we may not cheat him, from the back we may not attack him. Just see. Therefore he is stopping.
Bahulāśva: He doesn't know that you are the ever well-wisher, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So you are going to carry the message to the government?
Prajāpati: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're working on a...
Prabhupāda: That issue metal coin and the problem will be solved. But they will not take your advice.
Prajāpati: This is part of our platform. To even run for political office, we need solutions to the problems to offer as a platform. We will draw up various bills, ready for legislation, show them that we are serious.
Prabhupāda: So how you'll present it? The cheating process is going on. Unless you become God conscious, the cheating process will not stop. So there is no solution.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: Is that an example of free will, that someone can choose Kṛṣṇa and then turn away? That example of free will?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: (BG 9.14) "Always chanting about Me." That is mahātmā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "Mahātmā, those who are devotee, they are not under these material influence." Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: "the spiritual influence." So how he's accepted Kṛṣṇa? By his own concoction? He... If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Keeping a guru, and "Guru, come here, come here, guru." (laughter) Not like that. That is useless. And this is the qualification of celā. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One who is interested with the Absolute Truth. That requires, he requires a guru. And guru means, śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam (SB 11.3.21). This is the qualification. Śābde, he's, in the Vedic knowledge, he's perfect. Śābde pare ca. Niṣṇātam. He has immersed himself in that ocean. And the result is brahmaṇy upaśama..., he has no more material interests, simply Brahman. That's all. How simple it is, the qualification of celā and qualification of guru. As soon as Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his guru, He immediately gave him a slap: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). "You are talking like very learned man. You are fool number one."
Prabhupāda: ...jñānam. So that is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. Atha bhajana-kriyā. These are the step by step. Atha anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktis tato bhāvas sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the krama. Krama-pāṭha. Everything is there in our Vedic literature. One has to study cool-headed, and he'll get the things. (break) ...ment of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or spiritual consciousness is based on śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. If one actually has śraddhā, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa says like this, then I'll accept Kṛṣṇa." That is śraddhā. "Kṛṣṇa says... Oh, Kṛṣṇa says like this. Why shall I surrender to Him?" That is not śraddhā. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. If one accepts this principle, then there is śraddhā. That is explained by Caitanya-caritāmṛta (indistinct):
- śraddhā-śabde—viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya
- kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya
- (Cc. Madhya 22.62)
This is śraddhā. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa. Firm faith. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa has said that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, I will accept it. I will accept it. Even I do not understand, I will accept it." That is called viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. And faith means kṛṣṇe bhakti, "If I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then my all perfection is there." This is called śraddhā.
Prabhupāda: ...avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). The so-called, the so-called big, big leaders, big, big philosophers, and big, big scholars, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being or "There was no Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much mūḍha they are.
Dr. Patel: Now, they... There is a section of scholars who think that Kṛṣṇa was not a personality at any time, but it is a legend. But others say that even if it is a legend, it is worth following and worshiping.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Both of them are mūḍhas.
Dr. Patel: They are three-four types of...
Prabhupāda: Both of them are mūḍhas. Because one who thinks that it is not a fact, and one who thinks that, "Even it is not fact...," both of them do not know actually.
Prabhupāda: Let us understand it. Don't be anxious to go forward. This is the..., that... Suppose a man declares himself that "I am avatāra." So intelligent man should test him, how he is avatāra. We accept Kṛṣṇa or Lord Rāmacandra for their uncommon activities. But what is the uncommon activities, so many avatāras? Simply being praised by a group of persons. That's all. Yes.
Dr. Patel: Paśyādityān vasūn rudrān aśvinau marutas tathā (BG 11.6).
Prabhupāda: Now, first of all, he's saying that paśyādityān. Ādityān, plural number. Not only one, plural number. Ādityān means the Sūrya...
Dr. Patel: Sūrya and all those twelve sons.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, ādityān. So here they cannot estimate the influence of one Āditya, and here he is showing all the Ādityas.
Prabhupāda: Yes, answer.
Yaśomatīnandana: Because they are less intelligent.
Dr. Patel: He is more intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has accepted Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is more intelligent than these rascals. Yes. He has accepted the original. He is not going to accept any false imitation. Therefore he is intelligent, more intelligent.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) (break)
Girirāja: "You are air, fire, water, and You are the moon. You are the supreme controller and the grandfather. Thus I offer my respectful obeisances unto You a thousand times, and again and yet again." (break)
Prabhupāda: Here is paramparā. Now, if we follow the footsteps of Arjuna, and we should surrender like that...
Dr. Patel: (next verse, Sanskrit) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...studying Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody recommends that "We accept this false," then what kind of business this is? Everyone says, "Oh, we have studied Bhagavad-gītā." (laughs) What you have studied? You are attached to some false imitation, and how you have studied? So am I right, Mr. Sar?
Dr. Patel: But those people are following Śaṅkarācārya...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but Śaṅkarācārya accepted Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He commented, and he accepted Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: His commentation is different, you see.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. He has accepted Kṛṣṇa, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. He has accepted. You have read, Bhagavad-gītā. He has accepted.
Dr. Patel: Yes, I have read it.
Prabhupāda: Then why the Śaṅkarites will not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? (break) ...destructful question that Vedas and Purāṇas...? No. Śaṅkarācārya accepted. If you are real follower of Śaṅkarācārya, you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Indian man (2): Śaṅkarācārya also accepted Śiva also. Śiva and Kṛṣṇa is non-different.
Dr. Patel: No, don't say that. (Hindi) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: They worship Viṣṇu. They worship Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: (chants japa) (break). They'll talk of Kṛṣṇa, so many things but they're not devotees. Just like Kaṁsa. They may talk of Kṛṣṇa or think of Kṛṣṇa, but they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Therefore they are demons. This is the test. They'll read Bhagavad-gītā, but they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And that is the demonic. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they are demons, therefore their so-called knowledge is useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. And apparently, they seem to be very learned scholar, but there is no knowledge. There is no knowledge. This is the demonic... Just like Rāvaṇa. He was very much advanced student in Vedic literature. But he was a demon. So simply by studying Vedas one does not become out of the jurisdiction of demons. Just like Jarasandha. He was also worshiping Viṣṇu. But he was a demon. He was a demon. His purpose was different. The yajñic brāhmaṇas, they also could not understand Kṛṣṇa. So this is the crucial test. If one does not understand Kṛṣṇa and become submissive to surrender, he remains a demon, however big scholar he may be.
Indian Man (1): But right, everything is right...
Prabhupāda: No, no, "Everything is right," that is your misfortune. You do not know. Because we know the right man is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone knows. But your misfortune. You do not accept Kṛṣṇa. You accept something else.
Indian Man (1): No, accepting Kṛṣṇa is..., no doubt about it.
Prabhupāda: Then accept Kṛṣṇa. Everyone knows.
Indian Man (1): But generally, people, they don't go blindly. That is what the difficulty is. They want open their eyes, they want to have opened their mind, and still, they wanted to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if there is doubt, if there is doubt, why shall I accept a person who is doubtful? Why not accept a person who is without doubt? Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all ācāryas. All ācāryas. So why not accept Kṛṣṇa? Why imitation Kṛṣṇa? This Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa, dini-Kṛṣṇa. That is our protest. You accept Kṛṣṇa and be led by Him. The path is clear. (break) ...simply advertising that "You are searching after some leader. Take this leader, Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "We have taken. You also take." We don't say anybody else, no. We are fools. We do not know if there is anybody. So we are fools. Let us remain like a fool like that and follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say that "I have got eyes, I have got full knowledge." No, we don't say that. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. This is our version. We request that "You take Kṛṣṇa. You will be benefited." And actually it is being done. We don't present a false person. We present the real person, Kṛṣṇa. Now, if you are misfortunate, you cannot take, that is your business. That is your business.
Prabhupāda: The Americans and the Europeans, they are fed up with this material type of civilization. They are... They know that spiritual life is there in India. They understand it. Therefore, any swami goes there, they go round him to take some spiritual instruction. Unfortunately, mostly they go who have no knowledge. They cannot give them right knowledge. So for the time being they may surround them, but after some time they disperse. Because they do not get actually. Because so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, now many swamis went there and they preached Bhagavad-gītā also, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa for the last hundreds of years. But now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and people are taking it by hundreds, thousands. So they are after some knowledge, spiritual knowledge, from India, but our so-called swamis, they go, they do not give actual information of the Indian spiritual culture. Therefore they are practically deceived. But this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we do not change anything. In the Bhagavad-gītā you understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So we are teaching them that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." So they are accepting. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching that "Just always think of Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you will remember Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "And just become devotee. Worship the Deity of Kṛṣṇa. Become His bhakta." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Worship Lord Kṛṣṇa." Māṁ namaskuru. "Offer your obeisances to Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Well, nobody's activities can be greater than God's activities.
Yogeśvara: There was that lady who came to see you yesterday who asked that "Lord Jesus performed so many miracles. So what miracles did Kṛṣṇa perform?" So your reply was so many miracles, killing Putana and so on. But that was five thousand years ago. Kṛṣṇa's not here today. And people will ask, "Well we cannot see these miracles. So how can we accept Kṛṣṇa?"
Bhagavān: Well they can't see Jesus's miracles either.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They can see the miracles of Jesus Christ?
Yogeśvara: They will accept anyone.
Prabhupāda: All such questions. No sober questions.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Kṛṣṇa's miracles are in the hearts of devotees today.
Bhagavān: Kṛṣṇa's miracle is Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone can see. Who has given such information? All practical.
Guru-gaurāṅga: You caught him in the end, though, when you said, "If Kṛṣṇa is man, then this is no value." And then he said, "How do you know Kṛṣṇa really spoke this? How do you know this is really Kṛṣṇa?" So actually, he just did not accept Kṛṣṇa from the beginning.
Prabhupāda: No. He thinks that "Kṛṣṇa is a bigger philosopher, that's all. And I am also philosopher. So He has got His opinion, I have got my opinion. That's all." They think that. That is described, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ: (BG 9.11) "These rascals thinks Me as one of him, one like him." Mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Therefore Dr. Radhakrishnan and other rascals like him, they think, "Why Kṛṣṇa shall say, 'Surrender unto Me?' This is sophistry." What is the meaning of sophistry?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Sophist is half-wise and half-foolish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He thinks that "I am as good philosopher as Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? I have got my own opinion." He thinks like that. And that rascal is writing commentary on Bhagavad-gītā. And it is selling also. Therefore we presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, not a rascal ism.
Prabhupāda: We want to see the quality, not the quantity. So our process is paramparā. Just like in India—you have been in India—there are ācāryas: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya. If the ācārya accept, then we accept. This is our process. We don't go the millions; we see the quality. Rāmānujācārya, high quality devotee; Madhvācārya, high quality devotee; Caitanya, high quality devotee. If they say he is God, then we accept. This is our process. We don't see how many millions of followers. No. We want to see the quality man. He says yes. So Śaṅkarācārya says "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Rāmānujācārya says "the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Madhvācārya says "Supreme," Caitanya says "Supreme," then we accept. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. Simply by argument we cannot understand the truth. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. And if you simply consult Vedic literature, that is also not possible. There are different statements. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā, nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. A muni, a saintly person, a philosopher is not a philosopher or muni if he does not agree with others. He must disagree, then he becomes. So that is also not the way. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: it is very confidential. Then how to know? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, ācāryas—that is the process. Ācāryopāsanam. What is that, in the Thirteenth Chapter? Ācāryopāsanam, we have to understand through the ācāryas. That is our process. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead not by our experience but by the experience of the acaryas who are recognized, and then we follow. Just like Arjuna accepts Kṛṣṇa in the Tenth Chapter. Find out, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).
Yogeśvara: He says that for him, that's not really a problem. He says rather than referring to the person Kṛṣṇa, he just goes directly to the teaching of the Gītā, and he profits from that.
Prabhupāda: No, teachings of Bhagavad-gītā means Kṛṣṇa. That is the folly of the so-called scholars. They want to study Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Just like one wants to play Hamlet without Hamlet. (French, mentions Śaṅkara) Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Does he know that, that Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality? (French)
Yogeśvara: So his point is that, well, ultimately, the, now what is going to happen, he says, is we're going to get into a discussion about whether or not the Supreme is a person or impersonal, and he says he doesn't really have the time to get into that.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then? What did he...? Why he come here? What for?
Yogeśvara: We invited him. (laughter) (French)
Devotee: Well, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: India's culture, India's culture depends on the ācāryas. Just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, like that. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ācāryopāsanam. So India's culture is still, up to date, it is followed by the ācāryas. Anyone you find in India who claims to become a Hindu, he must have followed the ācārya. So all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says all the Christians and all the priests, that they tell to him from, that from two thousand years, the truth is in the Evangel. But still, he says...
Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.
Prabhupāda: So according to Vedic way, Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth. Kṛṣṇa is Absolute Truth, accepted by the ācāryas. Indian civilization is carried on the advice of the ācārya-sampradāya. So all the ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they all accept Kṛṣṇa as the Absolute Truth. So when we hear from Kṛṣṇa then we get absolute knowledge.
Karandhara: The reason why we gather like this to discuss these principles is that just like a group of scholars will gather to refine and crystallize their knowledge.
Guest: (French)
Yogeśvara: He must excuse himself, he has a prior engagement.
Guest: I thank you so much for your... I must go now.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: I see.
Professor La Combe: The notions of Brahman and ātman both in Śaṅkara and Rāmānuja. That one is not of out of print. It is called in French L'Absolute selons les Vedānta.
Prabhupāda: But Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ devakī-putraḥ. He has written like that in his comment on Bhagavad-gītā.
Professor La Combe: Bhagavad-gītā, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So... And all the ācāryas, Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So practically, amongst the authorities, Indian ācāryas, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Rāmānujācārya has written his bhāṣya on Bhagavad-gītā.
Professor La Combe: I read it. And Śaṅkara's also, both.
Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya has not written. Śaṅkara has written. Śarīraka-bhāṣya, Vedānta-sūtra. He has written comment on Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You and Me and all these soldiers, we existed before, we are existing now, and we shall exist in this way in the future." Where does He say that "We shall be mixed up"? He never says. And these rascals, they have got so many parties, the same thing. Where do you get this idea? There is sayujya-mukti, but Kṛṣṇa never says that "You take it." All this Ramakrishna Mission, all these, this (indistinct), he gives the example that rivers come from different sources, but when it comes to the ocean it is mixed up. Why don't you see within the water? Within the water there are big, big fishes, they do not mix up with the water. They see superficially the water. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Our philosophy is "Come. Come here, play with Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy. Come here, dance with Kṛṣṇa as gopī. Come here, accept Kṛṣṇa as your son, Kṛṣṇa will accept you as His mother." There will be always two, and enjoy, any way. Even as enemy, demon displaying part of enemy, Kṛṣṇa killing, that is also pastime too. That is also enjoyment. Just like sometimes we fight, friend to friend, to enjoy life, because fighting is enjoyment. You become enemy of Kṛṣṇa purposefully, and to fight with Him, that is giving pleasure to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying, and He also becomes so staunch enemy.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that for example he could listen to everything that you were saying, and then he could repeat it, and someone might say to him that "Oh, you are an expert. You are a master," but actually he's not. He's simply repeating.
Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle.
Prabhupāda: But there is no business in crazy. We have no business with crazy. (some people are laughing and some are talking) All right, what is the time now? We have no business with crazy. This is practical. This is practical. If in the court the judge inquires, "What is your name," and if you say, "I am," he will immediately say, "He is a crazy man. Get him out." (several people start talking at once) This kind of knowledge has got no value. No, no. If he does not like to accept Kṛṣṇa as the name of God, he has got his name, say, Jehovah or Allah. That is all right.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): They're saying it's not that they don't like Kṛṣṇa. They like Kṛṣṇa very much, but they are saying that everything is...
Prabhupāda: No, no, they must have some name of God. "I am" is not the name. That is false conception.
Guests (Hṛdayānanda): They say it's something very personal.
Prabhupāda: No. When you ask name, that is personal.
Lady: God?
Prabhupāda: God means controller. God is not name. Just like the president, Mr. Ford. That is name, and president is the controller. So every controller has got name. So why the supreme controller will not have any name? That is ignorance.
Guest (1): Everything comes from the mother earth. We are in very short supply of things.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No shortage. That is everything supply. You have got the Vedic knowledge. You don't take care of that. You now manufacture your own knowledge. Now there is knowledge, this Bhagavad-gītā is perfect knowledge, but even a political leader like Gandhi, he says that I don't believe that there was anybody like Kṛṣṇa living. This is your leader. All the ācāryas, previous ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, big, big, stalwart, learned, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Now Gandhi says, "I don't believe." Now you are guided by Gandhi, you are not guided by the ācāryas. That is your misfortune. You are not guided by Kṛṣṇa. You are guided by Dr. Radhakrishnan. That is the misfortune. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is being, is following another blind man. That is going on. That is going on all over the world, not only in India.
Guest (1): That we believe in.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested. Then everyone was angry to kill him. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the guru by everyone. By our ācāryas, recent ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... I am not speaking of the loafer class, but those who are recognized ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya... They accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru and follow His instruction and try to convince others. "Others" means even your family members. That is success of life. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. Why should you lead your life blindly? This human life is meant for enlightenment, supreme enlightenment, and this is supreme enlightenment, to understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and preach it as far as you can. If not, you can preach amongst your family members. This is perfection of life. What is that verse? Ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Difficulty is not there, but we have to understand from teacher. Just like the many subject of knowledge we do not understand in the beginning, but by hearing from the teacher, gradually we understand. So that teacher must be perfect, in full knowledge, and then we can understand from him. So we accept Kṛṣṇa. Because He is God, He is perfect. So we receive knowledge from Him, and that is Bhagavad-gītā. So knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or His pure servant, both of them are equal. They can give us that knowledge.
Young man: I'd like to know the relation...
Prabhupāda: Paramahaṁsa? Bring those ice. Put. That's all. Hm?
Young man: I'd like to know the relation between Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa, how Viṣṇu became Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being, and He has got many expansion. So Viṣṇu is also expansion.
Prabhupāda: Now here is the Arjuna's understanding, that "I accept You in total." Now some rascals are proclaiming that all the Bhagavad-gītās, they are, most of them are interpretation. But Arjuna says that "I accept everything what You have said." So whom you will accept, Arjuna or some rascal who is speaking that "There are so many interpolation. They can be rejected"? Whom you will accept as authority? Arjuna says that "I accept whatever You have said in toto." If you accept Arjuna because he has heard from Kṛṣṇa, then you accept Kṛṣṇa or you understand Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Movebhed: I said I think the question you put, the clear concept of Kṛṣṇa, or God... The God for me is not a conceptual thing. It cannot be subject to concept, and to understand God, you have to identify yourself with the truth, and otherwise it's not the way to...
Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the teacher, authority, just like Arjuna accepted. Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Now I accept You as my teacher." Śiṣya. Śiṣya means disciple. Śiṣyas te aham: "I am Your now disciple. Don't accept me as Your friend." Friend to friend talk, it is not very serious. So when one is accepted as the master, then you have to accept his statement. There is no question of argument. That is the relationship between guru and disciple. Therefore the process is: before accepting a person as guru, one must study his position. And guru also, before accepting a disciple, must study his position. In this way the relationship between guru and disciple is established.
Prabhupāda: Āhus tvāṁ ṛṣayaḥ sarve: "All the ṛṣis, great saintly persons, they have accepted You." And some of them are named: Asita, Devala, Vyāsa. They are very great authority, ṛṣis: Vyāsadeva, who has compiled the whole Vedic literature; Nārada, the spiritual master of Vyāsadeva; similarly, Asita, Devala, very, very big, big stalwart, they have accepted. So apart from all these ṛṣis, recently, within, say, thousand years, great ācāryas just like Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they have all accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And India's Vedic culture is practically dependent on all these ācāryas. So we are follower of these ācārya, so we accept, following the footsteps of the ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who has ācārya, guidance... Just like if anyone is going to be doctor of philosophy, he is guided by three ācāryas. That is the system in India. I think the same here, is it not? Anyone who is going to present some thesis, he is guided by three experienced professors, is it not?
Dr. Movebhed: Yes, more or less.
Prabhupāda: That is ācārya. So ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Without following the ācārya, if we simply theorize, that is not good. Just like the same example: if you want to put some thesis, the university regulation is that he must be guided by three experienced professor. You cannot simply put forward your thesis without being guided by the experienced professors. That thesis will not be accepted. Similarly, here Arjuna directly hears from Kṛṣṇa. So he says that "You are Parabrahma. Now I understand." Now people may say that "You are accepting Him Parabrahma. Where is your authority? You are friend. You can say Parabrahma or anything—out of love. That is not final." Therefore he quotes that... What is that? Āhus tvāṁ ṛṣayaḥ sarve: "All the big, big ṛṣis, they have accepted You." Svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me: "And You, the Supreme Person, You are also speaking to me. And so far I am concerned, I have realized now that You are the Supreme Lord, Parabrahma." So if we follow Arjuna, then there is no difficulty. Accept Kṛṣṇa as Parabrahma. So Arjuna has heard it from Kṛṣṇa directly. This is the process. Now Kṛṣṇa says that "I accept your statement in toto." What is that language?
Prabhupāda: But Rādhākrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." When Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Then if he accepts Kṛṣṇa as God, why does he say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa"?
Indian man: This is God. Some may accept Him as Kṛṣṇa, some may accept Him as some other thing.
Prabhupāda: That is accepted. But that form is God.
Indian man: God, he accepts it as God.
Prabhupāda: That he does not accept.
Indian man: God, he will say.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He doesn't accept that. That is the difficulty.
Nitāi: He says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: And if he has accepted Kṛṣṇa as God, why does he say "not to Kṛṣṇa"?
Guest: No, he may not call that Kṛṣṇa. He will call it "to the Supreme," what you said now.
Prabhupāda: Why not Supreme? Then he has not accepted Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Then chant it. Then chant it.
Guest: Everybody loves Kṛṣṇa and...
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you accept Kṛṣṇa name is nice, then chant it.
Guest: I don't think that point is...
Prabhupāda: No, you say God has got the nicest name.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I say...
Guest: But the name is just an indication, the name is something we call it, it is for us to have a word.
Prabhupāda: But that I ask you, that what is that name? As I have... We have got the nicest name, Kṛṣṇa. Now you suggest that this is the nicest name in Mohammedan, Kṛṣṇa. You say me that.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: In the Bible they give twelve names for God.
Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.
Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā that one who knows Him knows everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if he knows that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he knows everything. That's all. Not that he should know as Kṛṣṇa. If he... Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātam... If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. That is finish.
Jayādvaita: That knowledge itself is...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayādvaita: That knowledge itself is complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, if Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the supreme..."
Guest (3): Yes, He says...
Prabhupāda: So if you read Bhagavad-gītā, then you must accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Otherwise, what is the use of...?
Guest (3): No, thing is... is that Kṛṣṇa is not supreme. Just because somebody doesn't pronounce the name of Kṛṣṇa, that doesn't mean that...
Prabhupāda: That means he does not accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme. Therefore he does not pronounce. That is the... If he understands that Kṛṣṇa is supreme, he should... Just like we have understood. We are chanting always, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... This is understanding, not, not... If you... Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). That is Kṛṣṇa. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: (BG 9.14) "Always chanting about Me."
Guest (3): Yeah, but, the thing is...
Prabhupāda: There is no "but." This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. You have to accept it. Otherwise, you don't read Bhagavad-gītā. That's all.
Paramahaṁsa: So that point is not so important whether Kṛṣṇa is coming from Viṣṇu or Viṣṇu is coming from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not important. Because, actually both of them the same, the Supreme. That example we give that candle, two candles, that so far the power of lighting is concerned, both of them equal. Now, you may say this is first candle, I say if it is first candle. But so far the power is concerned, there is no difference of opinion. If I love somebody, I'll say he is first. And if you love somebody, you'll say he is first. But both of them same. Just like devotees, some devotees are very... Hanumanji, he'll never accept Kṛṣṇa. And the gopīs will never accept Rāma or Viṣṇu. So far the Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, they are all the same. What do you think?
Paramahaṁsa: I think perhaps (indistinct) So actually the differences, whatever little differences may arise, those differences amongst the ācāryas, they are due to different feelings of love for Kṛṣṇa or His manifestations.
Prabhupāda: You'll find in some, among some devotees, they will criticize, "Why you are worshiping Rāmacandra? He could not save even His wife." (laughter) And some will, "Ah, you are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. He was so fond of women." Like that. In Vṛndāvana you'll find they are different. Somebody will say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," another will say, "Sītā Rāma." There will be competition. There is not difference. Both of them know that either I worship Rāma or Kṛṣṇa, They are the same.
Prabhupāda: Modern age means all rascals and fools. So we haven't got to follow the rascals and fools. You have to follow the most perfect, Kṛṣṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: The problem is that everyone is cheating. Everyone is presenting some knowledge of this or that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have accepted Kṛṣṇa, who will not cheat. You are cheater, therefore you are believing cheaters. We do not cheat, and we accept a person who does not cheat. That is the difference between you and me.
Gaṇeśa: But we were all cheaters before we came to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So how is it that we're not accepting a cheater? How is it that we cheaters have accepted some knowledge from you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are speaking what Kṛṣṇa said. He is not cheater. He is God. I am talking to you, but not my own knowledge. I am presenting to you what Kṛṣṇa said. That's all. Therefore I am not cheater. I might have been a cheater, but since I am talking only the words of Kṛṣṇa, since then I am not cheater. Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26), "I know past, present and future." Therefore He is not cheater. But so far we are concerned, we do not know what was the past and what is future. And we do not know perfectly the present also. And if we speak something, then we are cheater. That is cheating.
Prabhupāda: The first thing is: what wonderful thing he has done, that he is God? People have no common sense. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. There are so many wonderful things done by Kṛṣṇa. Now what has he done that we accept that he is God? He has fallen in love with his secretary; any common sweeper also becomes.
Paramahaṁsa: That is his līlā.
Prabhupāda: The sweeper's līlā. (laughter) (long pause)
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes if we go out to preach and we go away from the association of devotees, what can we do to make sure that we...
Prabhupāda: You go at least two. Don't go alone. That is the system. When you go to preach, you must go at least two. If possible, more than two. Don't go alone. That is not the system. (pause) This Guru Mahārāja (Guru Maharaj-ji) cannot go back to India?
Amogha: No, he cannot leave India. He went to India to struggle with his brother and mother.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So now it is...
Amogha: Now the court says, "You cannot leave India until we settle this." They've issued a court order not to leave India.
Prabhupāda: That is good.
Mother: (laughs) I'm happy if my children are happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be more happy. (laughter) You will have to take because son inherits the quality of mother. So you have got the quality. You are not exhibiting now. So by the influence of your son, you will take to it.
Sister: Has everyone the potential to accept Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Everyone, yes, oh, yes, everyone.
Sister: But what about people that are never..., that are always kept in ignorance. There's a lot of people...
Prabhupāda: He does not take. He does not take willingly.
Sister: That's what I mean, yeah. There's a lot of people that just don't even know He exists.
Prabhupāda: But if he takes, he has the potentiality. If you agree... Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). If you agree to Kṛṣṇa's proposal, then you will, that potentiality is manifested.
Prabhupāda: Latin, yes. People's vote. The people may be asses, but still, their votes will be taken, the vox populi. The fourth-class, fifth-class men, and they are giving vote. And the mistake is detected. Just like this Nixon was voted and the mistake was detected. But still, they follow the same process, vox populi. What is the value of the votes of the fourth-class, fifth-class men? Better one intelligent man, if he knows things, if he is liberated, if he says, "This is right," that should be taken. That is Vedic civilization. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa. We are not accepting the vox populi. One person, the Supreme, that's all. This is our process. We don't accept vox populi. All these Vedic literature are accepted not on the people's vote, but who is presenting? Vyāsadeva is presenting, Kṛṣṇa is presenting. Parāśara Muni is presenting. Therefore they are accepted. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. So what is the value of their votes if they are not intelligent?
But in the Western countries this is the disease, vox populi. Socrates said there is soul, and he was killed because vox populi was against. Christ was killed because vox populi was against. This is the defect of the Western civilization. During the lifetime of Christ, nobody accepted. When he was killed, or crucified, then the other saintly persons, they gave their experience, what they learned from Jesus Christ. Christ could not give any words. Some sporadic words were there, and the Bible was made on that basis. Actually, the Bible is not the word, directly words of Christ.
Prabhupāda: (To devotees) Do you know the Ba'hai?
Madhudviṣa: They have more or less... They accept all religions, and part of their worship is Kṛṣṇa. They have the person of Kṛṣṇa. But the difference is that we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whereas the Ba'hais...
Prabhupāda: That and many others, they also do that. They also worship Jesus Christ. That is... (break) We have no disrespect for anyone.
Dr. Copeland: And you've been rather successful in institutionalizing your religion, getting a large number of temples constructed or built or taken over, and a large number of followers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. The followers may think of Him. Man-manā. "You become My devotee, become My devotee and worship Me and offer respect to Me," that's all. So we are teaching our student, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always think of Him. You just offer your respect and worship Him. In this way become His devotee." We do not... Spiritually, thing is (?) (indistinct) That's all right. And they are doing that and they are getting the result. We do not say that "Sit down, press your nose, and meditate and this, that," or, no. Simple thing. There is God, we have got our temple... (Aside:) Don't make now this sort of thing.... Simple thing. We have got our temple. We say that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Here is God. And think of Him." As soon as you chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa..." Everyone has got the beads. That means you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And then we are offering respect, go to the temple and offer our obeisance, very simple thing. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if you don't accept, then you must have your own God. Do that. But the followers of Vedic principle, they will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). I think somebody was telling me that Guru Nanak also accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme father. Is it a fact? I do not know.
Prabhupāda: Avatāra...
Yogi Bhajan: Kṛṣṇa avatāra is in his own poetry. It is about Lord Kṛṣṇa. If somebody of these people who know Sanskrit and who know guru-mukhi can translate that part...
Prabhupāda: No, translate or not translate, we have already accept Kṛṣṇa God. So if Guru Nanak has described Him as God, that's all right. Then if Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by Guru Nanak, and Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by us, why not put this God, one God?
Yogi Bhajan: Yeah. One God is all right. That everybody will agree. But everybody...
Prabhupāda: That one God, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the same, I am the one God, that Supreme Lord." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat. Where is...? Find out this verse. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kincid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7).
Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, but question is very simple. Present it among the other Gods. Time has come of a mutual presentation.
Prabhupāda: No, mutual presentation, simply talking will not do. Suppose we are presenting from India. If we accept Kṛṣṇa... We have accepted, as you say. As so far other ācāryas, namely, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, the Viṣṇu Svāmī, and then, Nimbārka, Lord Caitanya, and Guru Nanak-practically the whole India, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord.
Yogi Bhajan: Um hm.
Prabhupāda: Now, in India, I think, people ask me the "How many they are Kṛṣṇa conscious?" "Everyone in India." At least in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So the majority of people... And why majority? The whole India. Even there are many Mohammedans who also worship Kṛṣṇa. So if Kṛṣṇa is God, we, in this conference, why not present, "Here is God, whose name is Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: God can say that there is no more greater principle than Me. Is it not? You may accept anyone God, but God can say that. So that is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā:
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
Every word is God's word. You may accept Kṛṣṇa God or not, the words are God's words. That is Bhagavad-gītā. (break)
Bahulāśva: ...statements like that in the Bible, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm?
Bahulāśva: You'll not find statements like that in the Bible, that "There is no one superior to Me." You don't find those things in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that(?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.
Devotee (1): But then because so many things they have to accept on faith without knowing, it then weakens their faith as to what they should accept and why should they accept Kṛṣṇa, who they can't see any more than King Ugrasena's four billion bodyguards.
Prabhupāda: Don't accept. Don't accept.
Devotee (2): But we want them to accept. The point is, if we say to a scientific man, "There was four billion," and if our statement is wrong...
Prabhupāda: But our position is that if some portion we cannot understand, it is our incapability.
Devotee (2): That is all right. But since we are...
Prabhupāda: That's all. Unless we have got this faith we cannot use these Purāṇas. In the Purāṇas there are many such statements.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no other advance, alternative. No alternative. Either you accept or reject it.
Devotee (1): We accept, but we would like some instruction on...
Prabhupāda: No. I have no such knowledge to convince you.
Devotee (1): No, we accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject.
Devotee (1): We accept.
Devotee (2): We want to apply it.
Devotee (1): We want to apply it to the world as it is now.
Prabhupāda: No no. You cannot. You are not authorized.
Prabhupāda: Then how the analogy is perfect? Machine it is. That is accepted. Kṛṣṇa says. That is undoubtedly, it is machine. It is nothing but machine. So machine, at the same time, he says, "It grows." How it can be comparable?
Brahmānanda: The body is compared to a machine.
Prabhupāda: Not... It is machine, not compared. It is machine. Actually it is machine.
Brahmānanda: But then it cannot grow because a machine does not grow.
Prabhupāda: No.
Ambarīṣa: So it is changing every second.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this is a car, machine, but if I want a bigger car, that means another car, not this car is growing. Suppose sometimes you get baby car. That is not sufficient. I want big car. So you cannot say that increase the baby car and it becomes a sedan car. That means you require another big car. A child, a child cannot have sex in that body. The same child, when he wants to enjoy sex, he must have another body. So these rascals, they cannot understand how different machines has been supplied by nature. It is supplying.
Jagadīśa: But this point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult to understand, and it will only be possible for a very few persons to grasp this truth. Therefore you are encouraging us to introduce the proper social system so that gradually people may understand. Otherwise they could never accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is understood by the first-class men. In the social system, if we don't keep a first-class man, a section, then it will not be possible, socially. Or if next alternative, that everyone agrees to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it will be possible. That is the simplest method. You become first-class or last class; it doesn't matter. You take to this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you become equally in spiritual consciousness. So it is already published in the paper?
Brahmānanda: Well, all the radio stations are carrying it. And the TV will probably have it tonight. Actually, this one purport might clarify the disagreement. They may not be so angry.
Prabhupāda: Why do they not understand, by nature's discrimination the woman is put into greater difficulty by bearing child?
Prabhupāda: Why there should be different...? President is one, and everyone knows he is one. Why there be lots... That means they do not know. If there is... Just like now Mr. Ford is president. So nobody can say, "Now Mr. John is president." Mr. Ford is president. You cannot say, "Mr. John is president," "Mr. such and such is president," "I suggest," "I..." "It may be like that." Why may be? Actually Mr. Ford is president. And one who says, "May be like this," he does not know who is the president. As soon as he says, "God may be like this," that means he does not know what is God. So there cannot be different description of God. God is one. One must know who is that God. That is education. Now, we are teaching that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Now it is up to you to test whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not God. But if you know what is God, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Professor: If you know who is God, accept it?
Prabhupāda: If you know what is God, then you will accept Kṛṣṇa is God.
Professor: Oh.
Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking, unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel... Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ (BG 15.7). Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām: "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders. How the living entity is equal with God?
Brahmānanda: They think it's some lesser, ordinary.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you say, "Why, then, Kṛṣṇa? There are many names," so Caitanya: "Yes, any name of God, if it is God's name, it is as powerful." If it is God's name. "Any name" does not mean you manufacture some name. That is not. Any name by which one can understand this is God's name, that is there said. Nāmnam akari bahudha-nija sarva-śaktis tatrarpita niyamitaḥ smarane na kalaḥ. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa as a God's name, then if you have your own name of Kṛṣṇa, er, God, chant it.
Dr. Patel: Tamas is dark and jyoti is light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the jīva is between these two things. Therefore they are called taṭastha, marginal. Sometimes you may be in darkness and sometimes you may be in jyoti. That is your position. So those who are accepting Kṛṣṇa's word, they are in jyoti. And those who are interpreting Kṛṣṇa in darkness, they are in darkness. Unless one has accepted Kṛṣṇa as He is, he is in darkness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa describing him, mūḍha, narādhama. That man might have been in the jyoti, but he is losing the chance. Therefore he is mūḍha, narādhama. He had the chance of understanding Kṛṣṇa, but he is neglecting willfully. Therefore mūḍha naradhāma. Men so much learned? māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: (BG 7.15) That learning has no meaning. That is another darkness. A person, without being learned, he is thinking, "I am learned." That is another darkness. That is another darkness.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are mūḍhas. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Only the mūḍhas can deride. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ (BG 9.11). It is stated already.
Devotee (3): Then how is it that some people do finally come to accept Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They come in the paramparā system, through guru. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you have to go to guru to understand. You cannot understand personally. That is not possible. Therefore our system is to see through the guru and śāstra, not by these naked eyes. That is misleading.
Devotee (3): Then the key would be to recognize and appreciate the importance of the guru.
Prabhupāda: Parampara. Guru is also not authority by himself. He is authority by his guru, paramparā. If he is coming in the paramparā system, then he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. Just like what we are doing? We are simply repeating the Kṛṣṇa's word. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Then they're foolish.
Yaśomatī-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Sa bhagavān svaya kṛṣṇaḥ. He has written...
Yaśomatī-nandana: It is like that. They think that Śaṅkarācārya also liked Bhagavad-gītā, but the personal Kṛṣṇa was not very important.
Prabhupāda: No.
Yaśomatī-nandana: According to his bhāṣya, they think like that.
Prabhupāda: No, he has written many prayers on Kṛṣṇa. Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍhā-mate. That means those who are not worshiping Govinda, they are mūḍhā-mati. He is addressing mūḍhā-mati: "You rascal..."
Dr. Patel: Why mūḍha, sir. Mudhatamaḥ!
Prabhupāda: Yes, vimūḍha. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says not only mūḍha but vimūḍha; viśeṣa-mūḍha especifical. Prahlādah Mahārāja says the same thing: tato vimūkha-cetasā. Vimūkha cetasā means one who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking of desires. Who are this? Those who are nondevotees, one who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Tato vimukha-cetasa. So why you are searching? Māy-sukhāya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bhāram udvahato vimūḍhān, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness they are busy in making plans. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says they are mūḍha, vimūḍha. As soon as you find one, not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately mūḍha, vimūḍha. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍh prapdyante narādhamāḥ.
Lokanātha: Well they won't accept Kṛṣṇa either.
Prabhupāda: Then, how rascal they are!
Indian man: (indistinct) you know there is soul.
Prabhupāda: Ha.
Indian man: Body is finished and ātmā is emerged. So, what, why the ātmā suffers next generation for the deeds done by the body in this life?
Prabhupāda: Because ātmā is continuation.
Indian man: Continuation, I understand. Suppose my body does something...
Prabhupāda: Not body is doing, you are doing...
Indian man: I am doing, that means...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you must suffer.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Mother. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. This is the original system of education in India, mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, to think of all women except his own wife as mother. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: "Others' money as the garbage in the street." Nobody touches the garbage. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu: "And one who sees all other living entities on the level of himself..." If you feel pinching, why should you pinch others? If one learns these three things, he is paṇḍita, he is learned. And another three things,
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
When you accept Kṛṣṇa, or God.... When I say Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means God. God is the proprietor of everything. Just take for example the United Nation. They are going and making noise, full speeches, for the last fifty years, but the fighting is going on. But they do not.... Why do they not pass a resolution that "This earth planet..." Take.... Only take this earth planet, earthly planet. Other you leave aside. "This is the property of God, and we are all sons of God. Let us enjoy the property of the..." But you will not allow. You Australian, you have got so much land. You won't allow anybody to come because you think it is your land.
Prabhupāda: To accept Kṛṣṇa as father means "My father is there. I have no anxiety." And if you accept Kṛṣṇa as your son, then you are full of Kṛṣṇa anxiety. This is the philosophy. And these Māyāvādīs, they cannot understand. They think that Kṛṣṇa is born of this father and mother, how He is God? But they do not know the philosophy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They talk of śānti.
Prabhupāda: Mother Yaśodā is always anxious. "Kṛṣṇa is crawling. Whether He is falling down in some water or some monkey has come, hurting Him, or...?" Always. Or "He is touching some fire." Always anxiety. And besides that, the demons are coming. So this is perfection. Always remain in anxiety for Kṛṣṇa.
Guru-kṛpā: This faith in the mundane religions, that cannot be called real faith.
Prabhupāda: No, that is faith, but because one is not intelligent, he takes irreligion as religion. He does not.... He should be also very intelligent, faithful and intelligent. Not blind faith. He must be faithful, and intelligence.... He must know what is actually religion. So therefore sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). Associate with sādhus means those who are actually on the platform. So if he associates with the sādhu—the sādhus accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead—he will get the understanding that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. Then his faith becomes fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. This is the way.
Guru-kṛpā: So what is the exact meaning of that verse, śraddhā-śabde. That verse...
Prabhupāda: Yes, śraddhā. That faith increase, and when it is increased so much that he fully understands, "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is done," that is first-class faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya (Cc. Madhya 22.62). If he becomes fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is first-class, means fulfillment of faith. In the beginning it might be doubtful, neophyte. But when that is, that faith is fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is the fulfillment of faith. Faith also there are different stages, improvement. Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), oh, that is final. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says, 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done.
Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal.
Prabhupāda: You recognize: "God is my father, and I shall be obedient son." That's all. You do what father says. Then you become obedient son. The father says "Always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). You can think of the father always. Where is the difficulty? Just like we're.... Kṛṣṇa is the father. You see Kṛṣṇa daily. And if you think of Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? If you see within your heart the Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, you don't require to pass M.A., Ph.D. examination. You can do it. And He asks man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. That's all. Simple thing. You come to the temple, offer obeisances. Everyone is offering. Where is the difficulty? What you lost? Where is your loss anything? If you come to the temple and offer your respectful obeisances, "Father, please accept my obeisances," where is the difficulty? And father is so kind: "Oh, My dear son, you have come. Very good. Thank you." Immediately you become recognized: "Oh, you are a good son." Where is the difficulty? You don't require the so-called meditation. Meditation is good if you think of your father. If you meditate on something nonsense, what is the use? This is going on. "Real father don't recognize; we are meditating." Misleading. Real meditation is to think of God. But if you do not know God, what is God, and when we present "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa," you don't accept, then what can be done? Everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, God.
Prabhupāda: But to accept this creed requires some big qualification. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in the Caitanya-ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Some selected, fortunate persons can accept. Kona bhāgyavān. Not everybody.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
It is not very easy thing to accept Kṛṣṇa as everything and surrender there. It is not so easy. But it is possible if one is fortunate. Kona bhāgyavān. But anyone can accept it. What is the difficulty? But they'll not do it. Therefore unfortunate. What is the difficulty, Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Does Kṛṣṇa say anything extraordinary that we cannot perform? Nothing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things: "You just think of Me always-man-manā. You just become My devotee, worship Me and offer your obeisances unto Me." Four things. Where is the difficulty? Anyone can think of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma.
Prabhupāda: First of all, who will take it? Kṛṣṇa has given already according to the time, He has summarized the whole Vedic scripture in the Bhagavad-gītā, but who is taking it? And Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all the ācāryas, they have explained how to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa's instruction. So first thing you must be ready to take the presentation according to the time and circumstances. Then everything will be all right. If you manufacture your own way of life, if you do not take it from the authority, then it will be failure. Just like this harijana. Harijana is very good idea, make everyone harijana. But harijana is being picked up from the lowest class of men, the bhangis and camaras. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, papa-yoni. But how this pāpa-yoni can be purified? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. By accepting Kṛṣṇa as everything, that means full surrender. Then he can be, even if he's pāpa-yoni, he can be rectified. But if there is no question of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa and if you rubberstamp a low class man that he has become harijana, how it will be effective? The condition is there, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya.
Prabhupāda: Reason means people do not know. They cheat. Suppose I present something, a misconception, and if there are others also who can speak something on the... There are two lawyers. One is speaking one point of law, another lawyer is speaking. So if you take one side only, then how you will understand? So they are simply reading this Śārīraka-bhāṣya. They are not reading other bhāṣyas, just like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is natural. And they are cheating people. That's all. Why there are two lawyers? Two opposite parties, there are two lawyers. One lawyer says this law is like this, and the other party says, "No, it is this." And the judge is there, he will take what is the real meaning. But this interpretation is required when things are not clear. Now the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes in, emanates." Now, here is... In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa said that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Clearly. That "I am the origin of everything, and everything comes from Me." So why don't you take it? Why simply you remain theoretically understood that Absolute Truth is that from which everything emanates. But when the Absolute Truth comes before you and says that "I am the origin of everything. Everything comes from Me." Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as Absolute Truth? Why do you take the so-called impersonalist view only, that God has no form? Here is God speaking, person.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Question number nine. Is a guru essential to one to enter the spiritual path and attain the goal, and how does one recognize one's guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained, that guru is necessary. In the Bhagavad-gītā when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna were talking as friend, there was no conclusion. The talking was going on but no conclusion was made. Therefore Arjuna decided to accept Kṛṣṇa as his guru. Find out this verse. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.
Hari-śauri:
- kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ
- pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ
- yac chreyaḥ syān niścitaṁ brūhi tan me
- śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam
- (BG 2.7)
"Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking you to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am your disciple and a soul surrendered unto you. Please instruct me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore guru is necessary. Everyone is perplexed. Nobody can decide himself. Even a physician, a medical man, when he is sick, he does not make his own treatment. He calls for another physician because he is sick, his brain is not in order. How he can prescribe the real medicine for himself? That is natural. So similarly, when we are perplexed, bewildered, we cannot make any solution, at that time the right person, guru, is required. It is essential. You cannot avoid it.
Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Kṛṣṇa. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are these actually the tangible signs by which one can judge what is real religion?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Real religion is how to love God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is the criterion, test. So if you have no conception, God, His personality, then how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It is not fictitious. So we accept, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Kṛṣṇa is God, and we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and other persons behavior and judge. Hm? What do you think?
Kulādri: We had one priest who came. He was discussing with Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. He did not know what God looked like, he never gave anything, never talked about God, but he said he loved God.
Prabhupāda: Then? What kind of love it is?
Kulādri: Nor did he say his people ever came to church. He said, "At best they come once a week." He said that's all that is necessary.
Prabhupāda: Well, love does not mean that you come once in a week at my house. Love means you come to my house, give me some presentation, and take something from me. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. Love means if you love somebody, then you must give him something, you must accept something from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You must disclose your mind to him and he should disclose his mind to you. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati, and bhuṅkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, you give him something eatable and whatever eatable he offers you accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes, that is the process in the Bhagavad-gītā. There are 18 chapters. The whole 18 chapters is the education how to know God. And when Arjuna completely in awareness he accepted, "Kṛṣṇa, You are paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12)," that is understanding. Then surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Unless you know God, how you'll surrender? If some third class man comes, "You surrender unto me." Will you do that? Why shall I surrender to him? You must know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." The 18th Chapter is described to know God, and then Kṛṣṇa proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna did it, "Yes." So without knowing, how you can surrender? Know God. Then you surrender. Otherwise how, blindly, you can surrender? That is not possible.
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām
- jñātvā mam śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
This is the way of śānti, understand Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme enjoyer, He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend for everyone. Accept Kṛṣṇa as your friend, you'll be happy. This is the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Sukla: Therefore you are doing so with tremendous success.
Prabhupāda: Yes, people say that "Swamiji, you have done wonder, you have..." so on, so on, so on. But I do not know what is wonder. I know it is certain that I have not adulterated. That much I know. But I do not know how to play wonders. That I do not know. But I am certain that I have not adulterated what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And I study everything by the crucial test of Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says:
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
As soon as we see that somebody is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or Kṛṣṇa's devotee, I take them immediately he's a duṣkṛtina, he's a mūḍha, he's a narādhama. "Oh, he's educated!" māyāyapahṛta-jñānā. Finish. Our study finish. We take it immediately that here is a māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's all. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because he denies to accept Kṛṣṇa, he must be within this group. Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. So people will be sorry or happy, we take them like that, that "Here is a duṣkṛtina," that's all.
Prabhupāda: So if we take Kṛṣṇa as bigger power, there is no controversy. Whatever He says you have to accept.
Guest (2): No, we have to take like this. Just like we have to take even some of this, any statement you make, we are going to take it because we think people of your status, who have experienced the life, which I didn't do, they are the authority on that thing.
Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa authority, then at least He is bigger than you.
Guest (2): Yes, sure. Not only authority on this thing. Because they have experienced, they have gone through that stage. And definitely we have to, because the..., just like from a teacher a boy learns, and it is that method. You have to learn from a higher person.
Prabhupāda: So you do accept Kṛṣṇa as the highest authority, and not only you accept, but all other authorities, they accept. Find out this verse. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).
Prabhupāda: That we have to test, whether I can surrender to him. That we have to behave with him. Therefore according to system, one has to study that "Whether I can surrender to him?" If you think that "No, I know better than him," don't accept a formal guru. That is mistake. And guru also will see, "He's appealing to me, he is going to accept my discipleship, let me see whether he is qualified." Then there should be guru and śiṣya, not that as a fashion. Like Arjuna, Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru after talking with Him. Find out that verse, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.
Guest (3): Pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ.
Prabhupāda: When he was convinced that "I do not find anyone else to give me instruction," then he surrendered.
Prabhupāda: You can take Arjuna as guru. Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). He directly listened to Him. And he's guru therefore, because the guru is by the paramparā. So he understood Kṛṣṇa. So you take Arjuna's instruction. Make Arjuna your guru. What does he say? He accepts Kṛṣṇa, Param Brahman. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as Param Brahma. Where is the difficulty? Arjuna, by his direct experience talking with Kṛṣṇa, he understood Him that "Kṛṣṇa, you are Param Brahman." So you take the words of Arjuna and accept Him as Param Brahman. Where is the difficulty? Just like the same example, one lawyer giving example, the judgment of other court. That is accepted. So Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as Param Brahman. So why don't you accept? Where is the difficulty? You accept Arjuna as your guru, and whatever he says, you accept it. The difficulty is that we do not accept guru. That is the difficulty. Otherwise where is difficulty? Five thousand years, Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna, but what Arjuna understood, that is there. So you accept it. What we are doing? We are accepting. That's all. Kṛṣṇa said mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior truth beyond Me."
Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable, do not try to understand by argument. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. So our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to take knowledge from the authority. Unless we take knowledge from the authority, however we may go on arguing, we cannot come to the conclusion. The modern scientists, philosophers, they are arguing, but they do not come to the conclusion. If you want to take conclusion... Just like two lawyers are arguing in the court, but the conclusion is given by the authority, the judge. That one has to accept. So we take authority, the Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa. He is accepted authority by all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in the śāstra also, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala, Asita. So our authority is confirmed. So if we take conclusion from the authority, then we benefit. Otherwise, with our limited knowledge, if we go on arguing, then we cannot understand the conclusion. That is not possible. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. By argument we cannot come to the conclusion. I can argue, and you can argue, but you may argue more than me. Another person can argue more than you. In this way, you do not come to the conclusion. And śrutayo vibhinnā. So far scriptures are concerned, there are also different scriptures. Nāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And a philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not agree with others, if he does not agree other philosophers. So in this way, you are perplexed. Therefore it is advised, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We should accept the authority, and then we shall be benefited. So the authorities are mentioned in the śāstra, who are authorities. So if we follow the authorities, then we get the conclusion. So Kṛṣṇa is the authority accepted. At least in India, all the Vedic authorities, Vedāntists, they have accepted, Kṛṣṇa is the authority.
Prabhupāda: But if you know Kṛṣṇa, that He is God, then whatever He speaks, it is all right. Just like Arjuna, he accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). So he said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Find out this verse. So "Whatever You say, I accept it as truth." That is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you have understood Bhagavad-gītā, then you should have understood that whatever Kṛṣṇa has said, that is truth. Read that.
Hari-śauri:
- sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye
- yan māṁ vadasi keśava
- na hi te bhagavan vyaktiṁ
- vidur devā na dānavāḥ
- (BG 10.14)
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Hari-śauri: "O Kṛṣṇa, I totally accept as truth all that You have told me."
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is understanding. Arjuna is not a fool. He said, "Whatever You have said, I accept them as truth." That is real understanding. But as soon as you make amendment, then you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). There are so many rascals, they think "I don't believe in this, I don't believe in this." That is not understanding of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Before he, if... First of all he must know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then he will understand that what is Kṛṣṇa. That he will understand from Bhagavad-gītā by this beginning. And at the end Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Lord. So if you know that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord, then whatever He says is correct.
Indian man (3): That means the first thing is to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, and then...
Prabhupāda: Not blindly.
Indian man (3): Not blindly.
Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect.
Prabhupāda: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Kṛṣṇa as the father?
Guest (1): Prabhupāda, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: He is coming from spiritual planets. He is authorized representative of Kṛṣṇa, we accept him as śaktyāveśa-avatāra. So I was invited in some priestly meeting in Melbourne, they asked me the question, "What is your opinion of Christ?" So I said "He's our guru." (laughter) Actually, we accept him as our guru. He's preaching God's message; he's Vaiṣṇava. Anyone who accepts God, he's Vaiṣṇava. He was explaining kingdom of God, God. So according to time, circumstances, audience... Now we can just imagine what kind of people he had to deal with, that his commandment is "Thou shall not kill." Then understand how much they were accustomed to killing. So what kind of men they were? And not only that, in spite of hearing his instruction "Thou shall not kill," they killed him first. So what kind of men they were, just imagine. He said, "Thou shall not kill," and they decided, "We shall kill you first." So this class of men he had to deal with.
Prabhupāda: That's...
Indian man: And I do complete ārati and everything because I want your blessings. I wish that I have a guru like you every birth after birth. But one of the problem, Prabhupāda, personally, I have found among the Indian people is that because we are used to so many demigods, they still don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are so many arguments I get that like...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of argument. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, but if they do not accept Bhagavad-gītā as the authority, then they are fools.
Indian man: Yes, they are.
Prabhupāda: So fools cannot be enlightened. That is the difficulty. If they do not accept the authority, then they are fools.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man: If I call Kṛṣṇa, I accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then the question comes to me, "Why are you calling yourself Vaiṣṇavas? Why not Kṛṣṇayas?"
Prabhupāda: That already is explained, that Kṛṣṇa or Rāma, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, They are all viṣṇu-tattva. Therefore Viṣṇu is the common word for everyone. Just like candle. Everyone is candle, but still, this is first candle, this is second candle, this is third candle, like that. So Godhead means all viṣṇu-tattva. They are not jīva-tattva. So therefore those who are devotee of God, they are called Vaiṣṇava.
Hari-śauri: This specific Vaiṣṇava, that refers to Viṣṇu? Worshipers of Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Viṣṇu asyra devataḥ iti vaiṣṇavaḥ.(?)
Indian man: Throughout Vedas also, Viṣṇu is the yajñeśvara.
Prabhupāda: The supreme, yes.
Indian man: In fact, even Brahma-saṁhitā, Brahmājī says,
- yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-
- nidrām ananta-jagad-aṇḍa-saroma-kūpaḥ
- ādhāra-śaktim avalambya parāṁ sva-mūrtiṁ
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.47)
"So Viṣṇu is creating all the planetary systems. He's in His yoga-nidrā, He is the original Govinda, and I worship Him." So that is why both names are used so synonymously. And that is why people are questioning me, and I have difficulty to answer them. Although I accept Kṛṣṇa as original Personality of Godhead, but how to explain to them?
Prabhupāda: No, these are the references.
Prabhupāda: They do not know. They do not know what is God, what is Godhead. They think all these are fictitious. Throughout the whole world they do not know what is God. Simply they know the word, that's all. What it means they do not know. That we are giving. Here is God. Godhead. Nobody knows, nobody cares to know. That is nescience. They think it is an idea, that's all. Actually there is God, there is kingdom of God, one can go and speak with Him, dance with Him. They cannot believe there are... It is beyond their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore they do not accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). God is the Supreme Person, Supreme Being. Actually there is place where God lives. They do not know. This is first time, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are giving these ideas; otherwise, who knows it? Nobody knows it. The Christian or Muhammadan is... Nobody knows. And religion means to accept God as the Supreme Person. They do not know God. Then what is meaning of religion? Religion means to accept a Supreme Person as the supreme controller. That is religion. How the Supreme Person is working in manufacturing this flower, let the scientists explain. There is no brain? Just nicely painted, symmetrically, each flower of the same class; another class, another class, another class. (guests enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: It's coming to pūrṇimā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Moon is the cooling effect. Desert will make a cooling effect. (laughter) Just see. At least I shall not believe that this is desert and rock. I'm not so fool. The desert and rock is giving so nice brilliant shining, everyone is feeling comfortable. Just see. We have to believe it.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Because Kṛṣṇa is missing. They don't accept Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, they should have at least common sense. But they have no common sense. Kṛṣṇa is far away from here, for these rascals, but at least they should have common sense. And that also they have not. Even they have not common sense.
Pradyumna: Children are always asking, it is a folk thing that children ask what is the moon made of? Mother, father, what is the moon made of.
Prabhupāda: They ask?
Pradyumna: Generally, when they are young, what is the moon, what is the moon made of. So they used to answer, "It's made of green cheese." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You believe that it is desert and rock and giving so nice shining, cooling effect? In Vedic literature, there is always comparison, analogy, with moon, moon-faced, candra-mukhi. There are so many. The best thing is compared with the moon. We have named Māyāpur-candra. Māyāpur-candrodaya Mandira. Do you mean that a desert is coming out from Māyāpur? You have got rock candy?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong? They'll say "We have got different meaning of Kṛṣṇa" All the sages, all the saintly persons, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he immediately accepted Kṛṣṇa: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have spoken, I take it altogether as it is." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). All fact. And they are manufacturing some meaning. How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But I do not know what wonderful. I do not know any magic. I simply say that you accept Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. That is my magic. And they are accepting it.
Prabhupāda: How he will understand? He creates difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme authority," and the person who heard from Kṛṣṇa, he says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam (BG 10.12). He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, Arjuna. And why we deviate? The speaker says that He is the supreme authority, and the listener, Arjuna, accepts Him. Now why we interpret? What right you have got interpretation?
Mrs. Sahani: We interpret it according to our own design.
Prabhupāda: Eh? You cannot, if you have own design, don't touch Bhagavad-gītā. You make your own design and preach otherwise. Why you take advantage of the Bhagavad-gītā? This is criminal. If you have got a different philosophy, you preach. Everyone has got the right. But why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? When you take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and you speak nonsense, that is not good. That has murdered the whole thing. And practically we see that. Bhagavad-gītā as it is, you try to understand, you get the benefit and you life is successful. Besides that, interpretation when it is required. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. The law of interpretation is like this: when the things are not distinct, then you can interpret in your own way, I can interpret in my own way, but when the things are distinct, there is no question of interpretation.
Jñānagamya: Then we must take it to the absolute platform in order to actually have a sincere argument, to make a sincere decision.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no end of such things. Therefore unless one accepts a person guru, there is no need of talking. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Unless one accepts somebody as guru, the instruction will not be fruitful. Just like Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru. So long he was talking as friend, it was not effective. Arjuna therefore decided... Find out that verse, kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.
Harikeśa:
- kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ
- pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ
- yac chreyaḥ syān niścitaṁ brūhi tan me
- śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam
- (BG 2.7)
"Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me."
Prabhupāda: This is the position. Unless one feels like that and asks somebody, a superior, accepts him as guru, there is no use talking. It will not be useful. This is the position. If the injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), if anyone is interested to know about the transcendental subject matter, he must approach a guru, and unless one approaches a guru, he cannot understand, and if by force I become guru, he may not be interested. This is the position.
Prabhupāda: Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.
Harikeśa: "The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogis and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."
Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters.
Mr. Sahani: But being inquisitive, again, and accepting it...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Inquisitive means one who does not accept that "Here is a person giving me gold. He's very good man, he'll not cheat me." Then you accept. But if you have no such faith, then you check it. But real gold, either you take in blind faith or by checking, the result is the same. Now it is up to you. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He says... He is the Supreme Person. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). That's a fact. But if you don't believe it, then check and consider of our statement, and then accept. Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. So why they should take Bhagavad-gītā in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than Bhagavad-gītā, you speak separately. Why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Our preaching process is that you take Bhagavad-gītā's instruction, that is perfect, and you'll be happy. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't try to interpret it. Don't try to exact some meaning of your choice. No, that is not good.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, the first beginning of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā you have to take. (aside:) No children. Otherwise it will be disturbed. When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being, according to Vedic śāstra anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He's animal.
Prabhupāda: They are doing that. You can see from this big, big person. Gandhi used to say that he believes in Gītā and Gītā gives him solace in difficult times and so on, so on. But has he ever preached about Kṛṣṇa? Tilok has ever preached about Kṛṣṇa? Radhakrishnan has ever preached Kṛṣṇa? Nobody. Their policy is take Sītā and kill Rāma. Rāvaṇa's policy. Take away Sītā. Take away Gītā and kill Kṛṣṇa. So Rāvaṇa's policy will never be successful. Rāvaṇa's policy means he will be destroyed. You cannot do any harm to Rāma, but he will be destroyed. This policy, that take Sītā and kill Rāma, means he will destroy himself. So this is going on. Take Gītā and kill Kṛṣṇa. This will destroy the whole thing. This Rāvaṇa's policy. And Hanumān's policy is somehow or other rescue Sītā and get her seated by the side of Rāma. Therefore he's worshiped, Vajrāṅgajī. That is the difference between Rāvaṇa's policy. Sītā is the via media. But one is trying to bring back Sītā and seat her by the side of Rāma, and another is trying to take away Sītā and kill Rāma. This wrong policy will not take. We have to accept the instruction of Gītā and accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. Then everything will be all right. Prasāda? So thank you very much for your coming. So, kindly if you will agree to take the instruction of Gītā, I am always at your service. I'll give you such guidance, our men, our everything. But you have to decide this. You cannot take up this policy, take Gītā and banish Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.(?) (end)
Prabhupāda: Then you, you now you just become out of doubt. That... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Seventh Chapter, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ asaṁśayam. Here is asaṁśayam. No doubt. Why you are in doubt? You do not accept Kṛṣṇa. You accept somebody else.
Indian man: Not a question of accepting. We are all ignorant people in the field of...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are in doubt.
Indian man: We are, we have...
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are in doubt. If you want to be doubtless, then you accept Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Āśrayaḥ. Not that equal footing. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). So you have to accept Kṛṣṇa. If you become, if you want to become doubtless. Otherwise, you'll be put into doubt. Here it is said asaṁśayam, "without any doubt." That is the process. And if you want to remain in doubt, you continue. You accept this man, that man, that man, that man, that man. That is your business. But if you want to be doubtless, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lokanātha: Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Krishna Modi: That is Blitz.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is new?
Hari-śauri: No, this is the first article.
Harikeśa: Yes, but in India...
Prabhupāda: No, now you cannot say Indians. (laughs) Now we cannot say only Indians worship Kṛṣṇa. Whole world. That is God. They are not fools and rascals. They are educated, they are civilized. Why they accept Kṛṣṇa as God? Yesterday I was telling who? I think Caraṇam?
Hari-śauri: Caraṇāravindam.
Prabhupāda: Caraṇāravindam. That the Englishmen were ruling over us. Now here is English boy, he's giving me massage and fanning me. What is the reason? Unless he feels something obligation, that "He has given us Kṛṣṇa," what business he has got? Not for him, for all of you, to give so valuable free service, unless there is this sense. What do you think? You have no obligation. You are European, American. I am Indian. It is through this via media Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Because they have got sense that "We have got God," therefore they are feeling so much obliged. Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no doubt about it. It is not yet ready?
Hari-śauri: They're making a plate now.
Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara is there?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is intelligence. But that intelligence is not possible for ordinary persons. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. One who gets this intelligence, such kind of mahātmā, is very, very rarely found. To take it immediately, ah, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is very difficult.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
It is not so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa or to accept Kṛṣṇa as all in all. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam. But if you take it, you are fortunate.
Doctor: But then it's much better to worship God in form.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is intelligence. If you accept Kṛṣṇa immediately, man-manā bhava mad..., then your life is successful. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te (BG 18.65), He said. But they are not interested. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is a historical person. Why shall I think of Him? I shall think of oṁkāra." You cannot think of oṁkāra. You can hear. And as soon as you think of oṁkāra it comes from? There is no impersonalism. It again becomes personal. So they want to avoid personality and as well as think of Him—it becomes a very troublesome job. Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). They cannot think of avyakta, impersonal. But they are trying to think of. That is a very troublesome job. Kleśala eva avaśiṣyate.(?) Such attempt means he simply gets the result of his hard endeavor. That's all. He doesn't get any substance.
Prabhupāda: He is giving the intelligence but you are not accepting.
Doctor: Maybe so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty. He has come to give you instruction, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). When you forget, there is glānir, discrepancies, in the discharge of your duties, He comes to give you instruction, but you don't accept. Now what, can be done? The teacher is giving you instruction, but you don't accept. Then how you'll be educated? This is going on. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). They do not accept. They will write comments on Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. You see? Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Yes. As it is. Don't comment in your own way. You'll not get any profit. Take for example any law, government law. Can I comment in my own way?
Doctor: No.
Prabhupāda: Then why you comment on Bhagavad-gītā?
Doctor: The law is meant for obedience.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Similarly, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord then whatever He has said... Just like Arjuna says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Whatever you are saying Keśava, I accept them in toto." That is acceptance. (end)
Indian man (4): There is no dearth of ācārya in India. There is ācārya Rajneesh, there is ācārya...
Prabhupāda: No. There is ācārya, and there are fools also. Ācārya is there, and fools are there also. The agnostics are there. They will not accept any ācārya. You accept some ācārya. Why you become skeptic? At least, we have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme ācārya. Why don't you accept Him? If you are embarrassed whom to select ācārya, so who can be better ācārya than Kṛṣṇa? Why don't you accept Him? That means you want to avoid under some plea. Otherwise there is ācārya. If you don't believe in other ācārya, you take at least Kṛṣṇa who is accepted by all the ācāryas. Either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, or anyone, will they not accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme teacher? Whole world is understanding Kṛṣṇa is the supreme teacher. At least at the present moment they are accepting. We are selling our books daily five to six lakhs' worth, only these Kṛṣṇa consciousness books. And in our country we do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme ācārya. What is this? That is our misfortune. Kṛṣṇa is recognized ācārya. There is no doubt about it.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: So it goes on, (continues reading) "In Judaism we find the blowing of the shofar, or ram's horn, and in the orthodox synagogue there is separation of men and women. Differences of dress are expressed amongst orthodox Jews and amongst various Christian orders. Our own Pilgrim ancestors differed in dress form the popish gentry of their time. I have studied and tested the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and have not found them to be weird or insane, only different form the mainstream. Like any other evangelical or proselytizing religion, their converts could only become converts if they choose to believe. For example, no one can drag a person to a Baptist Church and brainwash him into taking God into his heart, he has to want to accept willingly. No one is ever held against their will by the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. I have never seen it, nor have my colleagues ever seen it. In examining the various members of this religion, I have not found one who appears to be brainwashed or dopey like. In fact their mental health and normality astounds me. If you cannot accept Kṛṣṇa, God, they will sympathize with you and hope that you will eventually find Him and will wish you well as you go on your way. There have been devotees who have left the movement and have said negative things about it, but the sour grapes syndrome is not unusual for dropouts anyway. I wonder how many West Point dropouts vilify the Army, or how many Seminary drop outs leave and disdain their religion? After a rational person spends time with the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and learns to understand them, he could never believe them to be guilty of the charges which have been made here in New York recently."
Prabhupāda: That's all right, positive.
- hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu
manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura regrets, "My Lord, I have lost or I have wasted my valuable life as human being by not accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu, manuṣya-janama pāiyā: "I got this opportunity of human life but I could not worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Therefore voluntarily, willingly, I have drunk poison." Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya: "This transcendental Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it is not ordinary vibration. This vibration is coming from the spiritual world but I have no attraction." Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham. "Now I don't want to talk or argue with You," because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru from the same level. Whatever guru says you have to accept. Otherwise don't accept guru. Don't make a fashion of taking guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all. "I have surrendered to you." This is the first instance (instruction?). That means whatever He says, and at last He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14). This is... Not that you make cut cut.(?) That is the process. Here is the paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is speaking Arjuna and Arjuna is accepting, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14). This is... Not that you make cut-cut (?). "Whatever You have said." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). "You have said that You are the Supreme, paraṁ brahma. I accept it." This is paramparā. So we have not seen Kṛṣṇa talking, but the words are there. So Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the paraṁ brahma. How we have change of, "Kṛṣṇa is..."? So first of all we have to accept by the paramparā system. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. That paramparā is now gone, Kṛṣṇa says, therefore I am speaking to you again age-old-system. Not that new. Purāṇa. And now you take.
Prabhupāda: If you say my idea then I become one of you. (laughter) So I don't want that. I say I am foolish man. I have no idea. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is idea. Just like a child, he speaks the words of the father. If the father... The child asks,"Father, what is this?" The father says, "This is a stick." So if the child says, "That is a stick," so that is correct. He may be a child. Because he repeats the words of the father... (Hindi) If the people are fools and rascals, then other will be fool and rascal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). (Hindi) If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme then where is the question of interpretation? (Hindi conversation) But who accepted? This is a fact. You try to understand that before me for 200 years so many swamis, yogis were there. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. (Hindi conversation) He is not teacher he is cheater. Why should you change Kṛṣṇa's words? That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't manufacture. What Kṛṣṇa has said, you say. Just as a child he can say, "This is a stick." "How you have learned?" "Father said." That's all. (Hindi) I started this business with forty rupees. (laughter) (Hindi) Yes when I went to New York they allowed me only forty rupees. (Hindi to end)
Prabhupāda: Why do we say like that? Why? (shouting) Why you are bringing physical concept He is a person, He is saying. Why do you say physical, material, and this and that way. He is father.
Indian man: Because He is saying, we should accept it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you accept. Accept, Kṛṣṇa is in your front. And why should physical, metaphysical and chemical? Kṛṣṇa is a person. A person says...
Indian man: Earth is mother...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says that "Earth is mother, I am the father." You have to understand it. That yes, earth is mother, because everything is coming from earth. But who has given the seed in the mother? That Kṛṣṇa says, "I am giving." Sa asṛjata sa īkṣata. This is Vedic version. And He says personally.
Indian man: As you say earth, mind accepts immediately. But...
Prabhupāda: But if your mind cannot accept, your mind cannot accept, that does not mean the things will change. You should know that you are a fool. You do not know.
Mr. Malhotra: Then he is servant, always servant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nityānām, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ... (Hindi) Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (Hindi) That is his foolishness. And foolish person will accept. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Therefore He shall remain the Supreme always. We have to refer to the Vedic śāstras. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is description of Bhagavān. That He has nothing to do, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. (Hindi) (Explains in Hindi that Kṛṣṇa does not need or show any magic, when He was just a child He killed Pūtanā. Not that by meditation He became God. Bhagavān is always Bhagavān.) Either he is three months old or three years old or three hundred years old. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, nobody can be equal or greater than Him. If someone is equal to Him then how He is Bhagavān?
Mr. Malhotra: How it can be that so many sages of the past, they proclaimed ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Prabhupāda: Brahman (Hindi). You are Brahman. Because you are part and parcel of Para-brahman. That I have already told you. That gold, big gold and small particle, that is gold. Similarly, Bhagavān Para-brahman, and we are part and parcel of Him. Therefore I am Brahman. But I am not Para-brahman. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as Para-brahman by Arjuna: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Para-brahman. So param, this word is used, Paramātmā, Para-brahman, Parameśvara.
Prabhupāda: To accept Kṛṣṇa, that "You are my Lord. I forgot it. I surrender. Kindly accept me."
Mr. Malhotra: How to surrender?
Prabhupāda: Surrender, there are six items. Yes. That "If I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, He will give me protection. I am one of His servants. And whatever He does, accept that."
Mr. Malhotra: Good or bad.
Prabhupāda: There is no bad. Everything is good. And first accept what is favorable to Kṛṣṇa, to reject what is not favorable to Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Malhotra: And what is favorable to Kṛṣṇa? How one knows?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says. Do that. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Always think of Kṛṣṇa, become His devotee, offer obeisances. It doesn't require any extra endeavor. These things. Whatever you have got, you can do it. You can think of Kṛṣṇa without any impediment. Who can check it if you think of Kṛṣṇa? This is favorable. And what is unfavorable, that should be rejected. What is favorable, that should be accepted. And to believe firmly that, "Now I am surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, He will give me protection." (break) But dog has got a quality that he surrenders to his master. The master is a Vaiṣṇava, then dog gets the benefit.
Guest (4): It is not contradictory.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is contradictory. Unless you have got a personality, you cannot speak, you cannot think. So how it is nirākāra? That is my first point. Kṛṣṇa says, "aham." He is person. We worship Kṛṣṇa as person. He says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). That "aham," He's person. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa as person because he says aham ādir hi devānām.
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
He's person. Kṛṣṇa never said that "I am nirākāra." Where He has said? Can you quote any verse? When He says nirākāra, He says like this, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). Mayā, by Me. Tatam idaṁ sarvam, everywhere, by My energy. Just like the sun-god. The sun-god is within the sun globe. His bodily luster is coming. The sun-god can say, "The sunshine is my bodily exposition." That is reasonable. Just like a big light, it has got exposition. Similarly... And that is confirmed in the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). Yasya, the person.
Dr. Patel: I am the main meaning of the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is the... So He can speak what is Vedānta. And unless one accepts this Vedānta, he's not a Vedāntist. Therefore some of our Vaiṣṇava friends, they have given me this title, Bhaktivedanta. In 1947, something, they, purposefully, they gave me the title that Vedānta means bhakti. "So you take this title, Bhaktivedanta." And we are preaching this Vedānta, that the ultimate platform of Veda, knowledge, is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So he's person, he's speaking. So not that the Māyāvādīs, they take that paratattva is the nirākāra-brahman. But that is not paratattva. Here the person says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So if you have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, then Vedānta means, He says also, to know Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, it is not anta, it may be middle, it may be beginning, but not anta.
Indian lady: That sense you must have. You must know what is what.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are not guru, you are goru. Goru means cow. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. You are not guru. You are speaking against Kṛṣṇa so you are not guru. Guru is Arjuna. Because a confidential instruction is given to Arjuna, so we accept Arjuna as guru. Or one who is following Arjuna, he is guru. Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). You accept Kṛṣṇa as paraṁ brahma. You want to become paraṁ brahma. You are cheating people. You do not say Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ brahma, but you are replacing Him. Then you are cheater, you are not guru. That has to be done. So organize this. Very plain thing. Very plain thing. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. You become guru.
Indian lady: He said wherever you go you say Kṛṣṇa's kathā. That is your duty.
Prabhupāda: You become guru.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You arrange, I will advise her. I am not proud, but I am the authority at the present moment. It is not pride. It is the fact! So let her take! Let her understand. The authority is there. And what is understanding? It is simple truth. Everyone can understand. Any child can understand. There is no difficulty. We make it difficult by our rascal interpretation. And that is very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So there must be somebody, original person. You are existing, you are coming from your father. Your father coming from his father, his father, his father... Now, who is the original father? There must be somebody. You may or may not know. So here is the answer: aham ādir hi devānām. So why don't you take? Where is the difficulty? If you are finding out who is the original person and the original person is presenting Himself and He is being accepted by great authorities—formerly Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, and later on Rāmānujācārya Madhvācārya, and all big, big stalwart ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—so why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme original authority? What is the difficulty? The fact is very plain, but I'll not take it. If I misguide myself, then who will guide me? If I sleep while I am not sleeping, then who will help me? Take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. If Indira Gandhi... I know she is intelligent, she is religious. Let her follow strictly the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Just his, all her ambition, all her programs, will be successful—if he's (she's) serious.
Prabhupāda: Guru is there. Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you find? Why you are blind? Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya (BG 4.8). He has come. Why don't you take Him? Why do you go to a cheater? Because you want to be cheated. Guru is there. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7), Arjuna said. Why don't you surrender to Kṛṣṇa? That means I don't want guru. I want somebody, my order supplier. So how you can be... Because you want to be cheated, you'll get cheater. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmi (BG 4.11). Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as guru? What is the difficulty? Is there anybody greater than Kṛṣṇa? Do you think like that? What is your idea?
Guest (2): He is the ultimate. There's nothing more.
Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa, when He was young, grown-up, He became contaminated by the gopīs." Therefore they do not touch that Kṛṣṇa. When He was below that age, Bal Kṛṣṇa, He is innocent; He has no desire. They think this is contaminated Kṛṣṇa, and Bal Kṛṣṇa is uncontaminated.
Hari-śauri: Then they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as being the supreme enjoyer.
Girirāja: I met someone who said that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their theory: "Kṛṣṇa is contaminated. In His young age He's contaminated." Now then why... So-called advanced gentlemen say that "We don't want Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana. We want Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra." They say that. They don't want Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana, dancing with the gopīs. Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, the great novelist, he had written on Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-charitra. He has made distinction, that "Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana is different from Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa of Dvārakā is different." Like that.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not... You are going to produce some film. Begin from the first chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why you jump over the Tenth Canto? That is kept very confidential. Unless one understands... By understanding nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has no entrance. Just like you cannot enter into the law college unless you are graduate. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has arranged in such a way that one should understand what is Kṛṣṇa by reading these nine cantos. Then he can enter into the Kṛṣṇa's līlā and Kṛṣṇa's birth. What is the purpose? He could have given Kṛṣṇa... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is for Kṛṣṇa. So we have named this, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-katha. So first Kṛṣṇa-katha is: Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Present Bhagavad-gītā. Then one accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality... Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he comes to that stage, then Bhāgavata begins. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Paramo nirmatsarāṇām. Unless one is matsara... "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is doing that? Why I cannot do it?" The sahajiyā bābājīs, they do that. That is matsarata, that "Kṛṣṇa can do? I can also do." So he simply imitates Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. And Kṛṣṇa can raise the Govardhana Hill—that is not possible. That is... What is called? Mythology. What he cannot do, he takes as mythology. And what he can easily imitate and go to hell, that is very good.
Prabhupāda: That is our misfortune. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Kṛṣṇa is personally speaking, but the mūḍhas and narādhamas, they will not hear to Kṛṣṇa. They have been described... Those who do not hear from Kṛṣṇa or His representative, they have been described, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ: "Most sinful, rascals, mūḍha, gādhā, and lowest of the mankind." This is their position. It is not my manufacture. It is Kṛṣṇa's... Find out this, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. "No, there are so many educated..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These rascals have taken: "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa as God?" Āsuri-bhāvam. This is the basic principle of defect. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as God, that is your business. But Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara, god... There are many gods, but the Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): The whole problem... We have not read Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So now read it. No, it is better late than never. You have never read Bhagavad-gītā; now read it. The movement is there for this purpose. Now read it.
Guest (8) (Indian man): The simple version is there also for a layman like us who do not know?
Prabhupāda: Even layman, if you offer your obeisances to God, it does it require any...?
Guest (8): I don't mean, sir. I mean about Bhagavad-gītā, the book. It is readable version, I mean? We don't know Sanskrit very well.
Prabhupāda: It is explained in English.
Prabhupāda: So that is natural. If my sons dies, I will not be agitated? What is the wrong there?
Pṛthu-putra: Well, one advocate asked me this in Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: That is temporary. That is temporary, but it is natural. Suppose if I prick you, you feel some pain, but that is temporary. Āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ. They come and go.
Hari-śauri: Well, you may say that I'm unhappy with the authority I've got now, but if you force me to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness when I don't want it, then that will also make me unhappy.
Prabhupāda: No, if it is right thing, then I am right to force you.
Satsvarūpa: This is against our democratic spirit in the West. It...
Prabhupāda: Democratic means "demoncratic."
Satsvarūpa: That's why they revolted against the kings, so that they wouldn't have to be forced. "Give me liberty or give me death."
Hari-śauri: But under that banner of saying "This is good for you," you can force me to do all kinds of things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is king's duty. Then force. Otherwise why there is military force? (end)
Prabhupāda: If they accept, let them suffer. But our propaganda is "You accept it."
Pṛthu-putra: But if they accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do we have program to dovetail the propensities of being scientists or politicians? If, for example, they accept to understand Kṛṣṇa and they accept from Kṛṣṇa conscious...
Prabhupāda: Then we do not bother about the scientist.
Pṛthu-putra: Still, the tendency is there.
Prabhupāda: Dependency, that is... We are practiced. Suppose you have given this motorcar, but it doesn't mean that if there is no motorcar my Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be checked. If there is little facility, we can take it. That is another thing. But it is not that because there is no motorcar, then there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not like that. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any impediment. That cannot be checked. So we are not dependent. But to make the best use of a bad bargain. If we get some facility, why we should not take? We are not so fool. If I get a motorcar to go somewhere, why shall I walk? That is another foolishness. But we are not dependent on the motor... "Because there is no motorcar, therefore my Kṛṣṇa consciousness stopped." We are not such fools.
Yaśodānandana: Yasmād kṣaram atito 'ham akṣarād atito 'ham.(?) One who knows Kṛṣṇa knows everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply study Kṛṣṇa, then you'll study everything. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). He becomes immediately liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. He becomes competent to enter in the spiritual world and associate with Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, just like that story with the scissors, how can we force the scientists to accept Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā. How can we force the scientists to accept Bhagavad-gītā? The problem seems to be...
Prabhupāda: No, if it is a fact, you can force, if it is a fact. And if it is not fact, then it is obstinacy. If it is reality, you can force, just like the father forces the child, "Go to school." Because he knows without education his life will be frustrated, so he can force. I was forced. I was not going to school. Yes. My mother forced. My father was very lenient. My mother forced me. She kept one man especially to drag me to the school. So force is required.
Gurukṛpā: So they ask us, "Have you seen God?" They ask us, "So you say you have seen God."
Prabhupāda: No, I have not seen. God personally comes, and I see Him. Kṛṣṇa came. A fortunate person saw him. Just like Arjuna saw. He accepted, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam: (BG 10.12) "Oh You are person," śāśvatam, "eternally." He has seen. We have to take knowledge from Arjuna. That is called paramparā system. He has seen God, and he is giving a statement. You take Arjuna's statement and see God. That is the way. We are not blindly accepting Kṛṣṇa, but one who has seen Kṛṣṇa, his statement is there; we accept.
Devotee (1): No one has seen the scientist create life yet, so why should we accept from matter... The scientists are saying life can be made from matter.
Prabhupāda: What is this? What does he say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's saying that no one has seen science has created life.
Prabhupāda: So why...? Therefore?
Devotee (1): Therefore we should not accept.
Prabhupāda: We should not accept.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This professor of mine, he was very much against at the beginning of the theory. Then, when I gave this lecture, he invited me for home, in his home, and his wife supported our theory, so he came around, saying that "Yes, science says earth is only 4.5 billion years old, and there are so many defects. So they have to accept that "No, we cannot be correct." So people are coming around slowly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force. He says, vicāra, "Just try to understand by logic, by philosophy, by argument." That is vicāra. We are not following Caitanya Mahāprabhu blindly. That is not our position. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. At last, he accepted, "Yes." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram: (BG 10.12) "You are the Supreme Person. The rascals, they do not understand Your personality, but Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they have accepted, and I also see. Therefore, whatever you say, I agree. That's all" This is experiment. Arjuna did not accept Kṛṣṇa blindly. He knew, but for our sake he gave so many arguments. At last, he accepted. We have to follow Arjuna. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. (break)
Bhāgavata: We are threatening their sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So go on with fighting. We are not the Vṛndāvana bābājīs: "No, we are so perfect we do not go out of Vṛndāvana, and chant... Chant or not chant, we have got three dozen widows." This is going on. Sahajiyā. Still they are better because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, than these demons. Our Guru Mahārāja said that although we condemn these sahajiyās, but they are better than the Māyāvādīs because they accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord. Their character is not good. But still, because they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord somehow or other, they are better than these Māyāvādīs.
Bhāgavata: Sahajiyā.
Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā means they have taken everything very easy. That's all.
Bhāgavata: Cheaply.
Hari-śauri: Everybody's telling them that "Whatever you believe, that's all right. It's all the same." You're telling them that "You either accept Kṛṣṇa or you're a demon."
Yaśomatī-nandana: Just now the political situation in India is so...
Prabhupāda: Tense.
Yaśomatī-nandana: So tense.
Prabhupāda: Congress position is not good.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Not good this time. And therefore we can always expect a big shock at the last moment from Mrs. Gandhi. She's so...
Prabhupāda: Emergency.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Yes. She's such a snakelike...
Prabhupāda: She has become unpopular.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they are in a downtrodden condition, it's due to their past activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can rectify it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, it can be reversed.
Prabhupāda: It is not that you shall remain... Then, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). If you accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even you are born in low-grade caste or family, you can be elevated. That is to be done. What is done is done. Now we can elevate from this position. That is our capacity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "There are no authentic answers to these questions."
Prabhupāda: There is. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Here is authentic answer. Why he's giving that...? That means you are not in proper leadership. If you... Just explain that if you infect cholera disease, germ, you must suffer. That is nature's law. Similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Now you can change the kāraṇa, the cause. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). And you can neutralize it. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ. Quote this. Everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: And we may be rascal; we do not know who is father. The father Himself says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "Here." We accept Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. The father is present. He says, ahaṁ bīja... The rascal is searching out: "There is no father." So immediately who denies the existence of God, he is a rascal. He is to slapped only, with shoes. That is the only remedy. Anyone who denies the existence of God. He's a rascal. He should be properly treated with shoes and beaten.
Girirāja: That's true.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Mūrkhasya lakuṭauṣadhi(?). When a person is fool number one, beat him. That's all. Ḍhol gobara...(?) Tulasī dāsa has said, ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Ḍhol, drum, you have to bring it to the tune by beating, "tung, tung." Gobara. Gobara means fool person. Paśu, animal. Ḍhol, gobara, pa..., śūdra, and nārī, woman. They should be punished to bring them into order. Ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Otherwise they will spoil. A barking dog, you cannot pacify him, "My dear dog, don't bark." It will disturb him: "No!" Ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke... So anyone who is denying the existence of God, he is a rascal number one and beat him with shoes. Bas. He is being beaten with shoes by nature.
Prabhupāda: Now people are taking our philosophy. So your mission also, preach in the same way. People will be benefited. The whole world is taking Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti... (BG 7.7). Preach this. People will take it. This knowledge is there in India, and they require to be educated with this knowledge, and we have tried little bit, and they are accepting. Why don't you do that? They have taken. I said, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. You worship Him." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. Why don't you teach this? Hm? You are not teaching this, that "Accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Always think of Him. Man-manāḥ. Become a devotee. Offer Him obeisances." Why don't you teach this? Hm? What is the difficulty?
Indian man (2): Excuse me. I could not follow.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you teach as Kṛṣṇa wants? It is a plain word. Why you are teaching something else?
Indian man (2): Hare Kṛṣṇa says you have to teach.
Prabhupāda: Origin, yes. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mat... (BG 10.8). That is the difficulty. You do not read Bhagavad-gītā. You quote Vivekananda. You quote another, another. But Kṛṣṇa is God. That is the cause of misfortune of India. You don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the authority. Everyone accepts, all the great sages formerly, Asita, Devala, Vyāsa. Svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me. And at the present era, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Caitanya—all accept, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān (SB 1.3.28). You don't follow the ācāryas, the authorities, Kṛṣṇa. You bring something.
Kārttikeya: Concoction.
Prabhupāda: That is the misfortune. They have left the authority, real authority. They have accepted some foolish man as authority. And that is the misfortune. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the supreme authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Why don't you take this? Distortion of our śāstra, distortion of authority, and bringing something foolish, and you are following. Not... You cannot follow. That is not possible. It is not possible. But you are making some authorities. You trying to follow. Even if you follow... That, the same example, just like Vivekananda was advocating daridra-nārāyaṇa. First of all this is a concocted word. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? People have accepted. Nārāyaṇa is daridra?
Mr. Dwivedi: No.
Prabhupāda: He is... Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), anādir ādir... Anādi. (Hindi) You have got so exalted knowledge in India. You have kept it packed. And you are going to beg from others? Take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā and assimilate it, make your life successful, and distribute it throughout the whole world. That I want. (Hindi) Knowledge, real knowledge, is in India. (Hindi) Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Indians, they are fortunate. They have got their birth in Bhāratavarṣa. The knowledge is here. So assimilate this knowledge. Make your life successful and distribute it to persons outside India. That is paropakāra. That is real paropakāra. That is real sevā. But sevā, no. It is dayā. The sevā cannot be used. Sevā means offered to the superior. And to the inferior, if you want to do something, that is dayā. There are words. Sevā is only capable to accept, Kṛṣṇa. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234).
Indian man (2): Naturally Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "I can adjust things." So we are not taking. (Hindi) From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gītā, everything is perfectly there. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehāntare. If you simply take, accept Kṛṣṇa as He says, then what is result? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Punar janma, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), but one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly—it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned—if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). So that is the real problem. We are solving problems, this problem, that problem, that... They are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem because the fly is made for that purpose. How... You cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him.
Prabhupāda: So here is the one. You don't accept? You are finding out the one. So where is? So here is the one. Aham ādir hi devānāṁ (Bg 10.2), mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva... Hm? You have got objection to accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme one?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What is your answer?" Prabhupāda asks.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you accept Him? In Vedic evidences He is the Supreme. Why?
Indian man (4): Swamiji, Christ says that he's the goal.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man (4): Christ says that he's the Almighty. What is your opinion?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "Christ says that he is the Almighty. What is your opinion?"
Prabhupāda: Where he said?
Indian man (4): In Bible said. "I am the God, come."
Prabhupāda: He said?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he never says that.
Prabhupāda: (break) You told me, from the siddhi...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone came this morning. He was asking that... He was hoping that because he had heard that you had some mystical powers, so he was hoping that you could help his situation by demonstrating some of these mystical powers.
Prabhupāda: Some magic. Our magic is already there. Throughout the whole world we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is not that magic? Foreign countries, foreign religion, and they are accepting Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is not that magic?
Indian man (1): It is.
Prabhupāda: And still more magic? The world is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Boliye?
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
He is yogi. There are many varieties of yogis. And Kṛṣṇa concludes, "Of all the yogis, big, big yogis, the person who is always remembering Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is first class." This is said by Kṛṣṇa, not by me. Therefore it is authorized statement. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all these mystic powers... They may be temporarily some magic, but Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is always remembering Me," satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14), "he is first-class yogi." So all these persons who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa according to the prescribed rules and regulations, without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses. So in the beginning there may be offenses. It doesn't matter. It will be rectified. Offenseless chanting means mukti, and then pure chanting means love of Godhead. There are three stages.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've become happy. Actually, apart from the devotees, there are no happy people in the whole world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim...
- (BG 5.29)
Because we are accepting Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, enjoyer, He is the proprietor... We immediately accept this philosophy. Therefore we are getting little peace. Today I am thinking of massaging with oil. What do you think?
Upendra: Well, it's been some days now, huh?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, a little bit. Every three days or so. I don't think there's any harm. That oil massage seems to give you... You seem to enjoy it more, Śrīla Prabhupāda. What is the reason?
Prabhupāda: It makes the whole body soothing.
| Page Title: | Accept Krsna (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 30 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=192, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 192 |